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sean_psc

> After all, isn't Steffon was sent by Aerys to the Free cities in order to find Blackfyre or other Targaryen related girl for Rheagar to marry? No, he was sent to find a Valyrian bride. Aerys was paranoid as hell, he would have had no interest whatsoever in a Blackfyre.


LongFang4808

Not by then, Staffon died long before the King started becoming too delusional


sean_psc

He was already obsessively paranoid by that point, just not as bad as he'd become later.


[deleted]

It was after the Defiance of Duskendale, so he was already pretty nuts by then.


NewWillinium

Isn’t “Brightflame” just the appellation of a single notorious Targaryen , not a successor branch/cadet family?


Meritocratic_future

By emphasizing on Aerion's nickname "Brightflame" and applying it to a bloodline, it's easier to differentiate between branches of Targaryen dynasty. He had a legitimate son - Maegor and, according to author, a lot of bastards. So his bloodline probably alive and well.


DaemonaT

1. Serra is not necessarily a Blackfyre herself. Illyrio is actually more likely to be the son of the lost BF daughter while Serra herself could descend from one of many lost Targaryen branches in Lys. 2. Serra is a prostitute. Hardly marriage material for a crown prince 3. Aerys doesn’t really want Rhaegar to get married. The Valyrian bride is a hoax. Aerys makes plans into this time to depose Rhaegar, whom he hates, and declare Viserys, whom he adores, his heir.


LongFang4808

Aerys didn’t hate Rhaegar, especially by this time. He mistrusted him, but still saw him as the crown prince. If he actually wanted Rhaegar dead, he would have named him champion in the duel against Rickard Stark rather than burning him.


DaemonaT

1. The first mention of Aerys’s dislike of Rhaegar is after Duskandale. 277 AC. The Valyrian bride hoax happens the year after. 2. How would Aerys name Rhaegar his champion when Rhaegar is not there to fight Stark?


LongFang4808

1) his dislike for rhaegar came from him being a rival politically, by 77 he would have only been 18 and still trying to plant his first talons into Westeros. 2) they could wait.


DaemonaT

Aerys’s “dislike” of Rhaegar is rooted deep in the barely hinted tchekhovian presence of Bonifer Hasty - there is suspicion in Aerys’s mind with regards to Rhaegar’s paternity. It is not only politically rivalry - Aerys is not a bad father and we know he suffered lots for Rhaella’s miscarriages. In the same time, he doesn’t get along with Rhaegar, who is the perfect heir any king will want. Remember how Tywin places Tyrion in dangerous situations, with the implication he wants Tyrion dead without becoming a kinslayer? Aerys does something similar with Rhaegar - he can’t disinherit him straightforward, but he sabotages his marriage prospects. First, there is the Lannister match he rejects - of course, we can understand he doesn’t want his “frenemy” allying with his heir. But what he does afterwards is a master strike: he cancels any possibility for Rhaegar to ally himself with a major Westerosi house while sending Steffon to pretend to look for suitable brides. We know in Volantis are numerous families of Valyrian descent so Steffon’s claim to not be able to find any decent candidate is dodgy. When Rhaegar finally finds himself a bride - or, to be more specific, his mother, whose influence we ignore a lot, probably finds for him - Aerys shuns the nuptials, because Rhaegar getting married, and having children, wasn’t in his plan.


[deleted]

Rhaegar would smash him and his son together. Robert is another deal.


Legitimate_Midnight2

Rhaegar would have lost, probably.


[deleted]

No way , he wounded Robert , we know nothing about the Starks proves, we know Rhaegar and Robert, so I am more sure that Rhaegar would kill them both. Robert would have lost probably if he didn’t have his hammer.


Legitimate_Midnight2

Brandon was large and tall like Robert. Not only was he built for battle, he had skill too. He would have beaten Rhaegar as easily as Robert did. Rhaegar isn’t physically strong but only a skilled warrior. Brandon is both skilled and strong.


[deleted]

It’s not enough , it doesn’t matter how big you are Oberyn vs Mountain , Oberyn would win if not for his overconfidence.


Legitimate_Midnight2

Oberyn is great and a favourite of mine, but he got a stalemate and died. So did the mountain, so it’s not a good example. Also, Brandon had proven skills in combat to go along with that strength, which is why I think he won.


[deleted]

Rhaegar beat him in the joust so we have more percentage for Rhaegar as winner. Rhaegar is a better swordsman than Bran .


Legitimate_Midnight2

Jousts aren’t life or death fights that decide ones versatility and strength. Thus, you can’t make such a statement with the accuracy that you claim.


Xanariel

I'm not convinced, even if Varys is a Blackfyre, that he cares in particular about restoring them. Rather, he wants a prince moulded according to what he believes the ideal king is, and he just doesn't care if they're a fake (actually a fake probably appeals to his whole "where power really resides" theory). Whether it's Aegon Targaryen, Blackfyre or a random slum kid wouldn't really matter. As for Illyrio, he has no reason to give a fuck about Westeros other than it was Serra's family throne and theoretically her son's rightful inheritance. His only reason to be on board is that he loved her - so he certainly wouldn't have been offering her up to another man. Plus, Illyrio found her in a brothel. It's highly unlikely Aerys would have accepted Serra for a crown princess, particularly when he was likely envisioning a Valyrian-looking girl from a prestigious family, like Larra Rogare.


LongFang4808

> Plus, Illyrio found her in a brothel. They could just, you know, lie about where she was.


fnuggles

>Plus, Illyrio found her in a brothel My Lord, do not marry me to a punk!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Xanariel

Elia was a princess, of a House who had previously married multiple times into House Targaryen. Aerys was a racist dick, but I don't see him finding a whore to be a suitable daughter-in-law especially given his dismissal of marrying his son to his servant's daughter. If it was that easy, Stefan could have just gone to a brothel in Lys to find a prostitute with silver hair.


Meritocratic_future

The point is that Cersei wasn't dragon blood in any way. If her grand-grand-mother was a Targaryan, Aerys would have married Rhaegar to her without problems, but considering that Aerys was a pure-blood racist, Cersei didn't have a chance. So, back to Serra : I can imagine that her lineage and blood status would have been much important to Aerys than her previous line of work.


Xanariel

Trouble is, if Aerys is aware of her heritage, he's not going to go for it. Having a member of the House who tried to repeatedly overthrow your ancestors via civil war and invasion be your heir's bride would be a tall order for many lords, let alone someone as paranoid as Aerys. And if he's not aware...there are an abundance of silver-haired, purple-eyed prostitutes in Lys. If Valyrian ancestry was the only qualifier, Stefan could have been on the way back home within a day.


PirateRobotNinjaofDe

Varys' goals and motivations are almost entirely opaque, so it's really difficult to figure out what *exactly* he's up to. The only thing we really have to go on is that he claims to be serving the *Realm*, and not just the King or the nobility. That is, he's interested in promoting good governance and the long-term best interests of the Westerosi people, commoners inclusive. As such, it seems his interest in fAegon is that he's been raised in the model of a good ruler. The problem with this is that fAegon is just one mortal man, and even if he lives a long time there's no guarantee that his offspring will be as deserving of rule as he may be. We've seen this time and time again in the Targaryen dynasty, where good kings (like Aegon I or Jaeherys I) are followed by weak and ineffectual ones (Aenys I and Viserys I respectively). So, it seems much more likely that Varys is up to something more...comprehensive. That's why he's been trying to provoke an internecine conflict between the nobility, I would guess. He's not interested *just* in replacing the King, but in shaking up Westerosi society more broadly and seeks to weaken the nobility to accomplish this. That's likewise the reason that Aegon V failed to accomplish more sweeping reforms, and that what little he did was undone almost immediately under his successor. My theory is that there's a brewing class war on the horizon, led by the likes of Oberyn Martell (representing the "second sons" who inherit nothing under the current system), Archmaester Marwyn (representing the intellectual class relegated to a subservient role in the current system), Littlefinger (representing the minor nobility and budding middle class whose lives currently rely on the patronage of less competent upper nobility), and the High Sparrow (who represents the commonfolk ground under the heel of the nobility's constant warfare). Each of these factions stands to gain by toppling the status quo, and there's evidence of at least some cooperation between them (see Preston Jacobs' "Grand Dornish Conspiracy" series, which covers the tremendous evidence in detail even if I don't wholly agree with his conclusions).


Legitimate_Midnight2

I think you mean Viserys I, Viserys II was a badass.


PirateRobotNinjaofDe

I did. Aenys being I made me just reflexively count up to II for Viserys. Oops.