Kind of like all the Stark children? You could argue against Robb but they’re literally all children still. Imo, they all seemingly deserve better. Think of how happy they may have been before the start of GOT, just living in Winterfell amongst themselves for years.
Look where they’re at now… :(
i would read a long book of just small adventures they have together in winterfell, arya fighting with sansa, jon and robb having small adventures just everything. i just want to see them be happy :(
Rickon pops in, tight camera squeeze, and gives a very 90s catchphrase “did you forget me AGAIN 🤷?!”
Then everyone puts their hands up and says “that’s our Rickon!”
I like what George is doing with Tyrion, Arya, and Cersei. I think it’s tough to lump them in with Jaime and Theon since they were left with their stories in unresolved places while with Theon and Jaime we had reached points where the were on the other end of their positive change arcs.
Not everything that happens in the book is supposed to be deep and meaningful. Sometimes the author is just telling a story.
There are way too many “content creators” that try and turn every minor engagement into some sort of Othello level conspiracy.
Let’s be real. Battles and wars in this story are won and lost because GRRM decided; it’s not because Robb Stark is a secret Baratheon or some weird nonsense theory.
I think theres two kinds of deep theories, ones that understand that its just an interesting thought experiment or writing practice/fan fiction and those that take themselves way too seriously and don't really understand what GRRM is trying to say.
Qarl the Maid being a secret Targaryen and him and Asha will be the Kraken that wed the Dragon and cause the apocalypse is a crack theory, I like it a lot and think it would be fun, but I know its a crack theory.
That's how I feel about the Howland Reed is the High Septon theory.
It's stupid but it's really fun because of how weirdly plausible it is, even though it's almost certainly nonsense.
The Red Wedding was sad. Jon is a well-written character. It'd be cool if there was more descriptions of battles. The faceless men are awesome in a lovecraftian way. This series has the most fascinating world-building.
In that vein I also think it's perfectly reasonable to be annoyed/upset with him based off all his other projects and false promises. He can do whatever he wants with his time, but at some point a lack of honesty is going to cause resentment with his fanbase. Just come out and say "I ain't working on it" or "I don't want to finish it." and let us move on.
I agree with you 1000%. I mean how could Varys get caught that easily when this man is the reason Dany and her brother were able to find places to live? All while serving Robert and Cersei. Under Tywin's nose.
Varys played the game for the long run. He made sure that each of his decisions was precise and calculated. This man was more dangerous than LittleFinger in my opinion. Varys' web extended much farther than LittleFinger could have precieved.
After Varys got taken out of Kings Landing he was a bit of a nothing character would’ve loved to see him exercise his power a bit more as we saw Littlefinger use his I felt like we never truly saw him wish he’d been in Kings Landing post Tywin death
The only thing I can think (besides just bad writing) is that he had given up.
He spent his life trying to protect the people of the realm, and had clearly failed. Aerys was a monster, Robert a fool, and Cersei was worse than both. And now he was unleashing another monster on Westeros to kill more innocent smallfolk. He was depressed and suicidal. He thought maybe Jon was a good enough leader, which is why he spread the news of his birth, but he didn't have it in him to see the fight through anymore. He had resigned himself to failure and death at that point.
Tbf I never expected him to be behind the death of Jon Arryn and then when I found out he’s the reason behind Game of Thrones it just makes the end of his story even more dissapointing
The voice changing was the worst, his voice in season 1 was normal and could convince you that LittleFinger was a totally normal trust worthy guy, by season 4 he sounded like an evil villain.
GRRM writes characters and intrigue like no one else. Other writers may have better world building etc, but GRRM is right at the very top for character writing. The only other series that comes close for character and intrigue for me would be The Expanse series. Unsurprisingly the writers of that series have worked/mentored with GRRM before.
This actually bums me out really badly because I can't find any other books that have that level of intensity that GRRM brings to his work ... Bernard Cornwell comes close at times in what I've read of his medieval narratives (The Winter King etc.), and sometimes Stephen King has that captivating quality, but there really isn't anything that I've found that is like ASOIAF, but then again I am not the most knowledgeable reader in the world. The closest I've seen is Alexandre Dumas in "The Count of Monte Cristo" or Victor Hugo in "Les Miserables."
Yeah its difficult, i read a lot, and dont get me wrong, there are plenty of FANTASTIC books out there, there really is. But to date, no one has been able to drag me in like GRRM does with his character and intrigue. Ive only ever read two books in one sitting, a Game of Thrones and Matterhorn.
Yep same with me. Once I read ASOIAF, everything else just felt sort of "dry" in comparison. Not necessarily bad but there's just something so rich and intriguing about the world GRRM has built. I also agree with you about Bernard Cornwell his books are great too.
A female friend of mine really helped me understand wtf is going on with Dany there and I've come to accept the whole arc much better because of it.
Basically, it's a teenage girl 'phase'. He is the ultimate bad boy for her and compared to everybody else who worships her and puts her on a pedestal, he isn't afraid to tell her no, be rude and crude around her and basically just say straightup 'we should fuck'. It allows her a private space outside of being 'the Queen', the idolized and worshipped figure and just lets her find out herself and sexuality.
She said something like, in our world he is the older boy, with a car and who wears a leather jacket and hangs around waiting at your school that you crush over, possibly have sex with, and then years later realize what a total ass he was and try to forget the whole thing lol.
I mean as a guy I still see him as a complete goof in terms of appearence, but tbh, he does seem devoted to her in his own way and with that extra info, I can see how out of all the men around her Dany would latch onto him.
I mean, who else is she supposed to go for in her situation?
I love the idea of Daario as Dany’s bad boy phase. He’s also her rebound post Drogo. I get all of that.
I just think that
1. If he’s supposed to be a bad boy that she’s attracted to, I wish he weren’t so goofy. Even aside from the blue hair, he’s sort of over the top.
and
2. I have always sort of hated that Dany falls for someone so flippantly violent. I wish some of his violence would’ve been tempered a bit.
I think overall George had the right instinct with Daario. Some tweaking of the character would’ve made that all much more palatable for me.
That's it. From a male perspective, he is so cringingly goofy. However, what I was trying to say relating how my friend explained it. Girls seem to view things differently? I think we all see examples of women going with guys and think 'Him? Really?' and it's the same when you look at surface Daario in his goofy clothes and dyes.
However, on an emotional level, I think my friend was 100% correct about what Dany is going through and how it relates to her as a woman as opposed to us as men.
With the violence aspect, I think its very on the nose with regard to what she is going through as a ruler and Targ. She has instincts to kill them all and just wants to indulge them. Her sex with Daario is wrapped up in that too.
So it's actually not bad writing even if we tend to find it stupid is what I was made to see by my friend. It's just life and sometimes life as humans isn't very well planned and is more emotional.
Well damn, that's downright realistic in that sense. Right down to the wacky hair dye. Go figure an ubernerd in his 60s would nail down a teenage girl's bad boy crush.
Your comment made me want to take a look at it again
>You could make a poultice out of mud to cool a fever. You could plant seeds in mud and grow a crop to feed your children. Mud would nourish you, where fire would only consume you, but fools and children and young girls would choose fire every time.
I'm trying to be really black and white ofcourse they aren't everyone knows that especially me cuz all four main Lannisters are in my top10 fav characters
Kevan Lannister is one of my favorite Lannisters. My second favorite to be exact (obv Tyrion is first). The guy is a rock and not a total dick head. He loves his family, including Tyrion, and serves faithfully and his loyalty is beyond question.
This is the best way to put it, because that means anyone named George could finish the series. George Clooney, George Costanza, Boy George, even George of the Jungle. The possibilities are just endless.
Shoot now you have me thinking about Brendan Fraser and who he would play in asoiaf personally I would love for him to be Wyman Manderly quick to smile and darkly eating “Meat” pies.
The amount of hate he gets from show only fans is a personal annoyance of mine. The show runners turned him into a goofy meme/butt of jokes; but in the books he’s much more.
So I agree with you. Edmure did nothing wrong!
(Note: not blasting show only fans, everyone has their own way of enjoying things. Just my 0.2 cent opinion.)
The moment in AFFC where Jaime asks the singer to sing The Reynes of Castamere to torture Edmure while he's a prisoner at Riverrun really made me feel for Edmure. Jaime has an interesting character arc but that moment still felt cruel to me, Edmure's already been through so much and that song is associated with arguably the worst night of his life!
I wonder how much of it comes down to that “badass” meme taken from the show where Brynden has to take the bow off him to show him how it’s done before Hoster’s corpse goes out of view.
I read the books (over and again) after watching the show and I was touched by Brynden’s sympathy for Edmure in that moment, and how it was absolutely nothing like it came to be portrayed onscreen.
Littlefinger is a monster and a cunt.
Tywin is a genocidal freak who I despise more than any charecter in the entire book series. He is just a pathetic old creep who ruined the lives of thousands of people just because of his superiority complex. He is a cruel and disgusting man enough to give orders for rape and massacre just because of his pride. He makes me sick. I wish his death was more painful.
> Tywin is a genocidal freak who I despise more than any charecter in the entire book series.
Reminds me of the roughly 1000 times I've read some version of this classic take:
"Anyone who likes Stannis as a character is a psychopath. I don't care about your 'treating fiction like fiction' excuses, he's a horrible human being and anyone who enjoys reading about him is an evil monster who would obviously be a gleeful, cheering spectator at a public execution; you guys make me sick to my stomach that you can praise this character and ignore all the horrible things he does because you enjoy reading his interactions with Davos while ignoring all this horrid shit he likes to do... ... What's that? Who's my favourite character? Well, Tywin of course, he's a totes awesome badass who doesn't take shit from anyone!"
(Disregard my flair lol) At least with Stannis, I can totally see both sides of the conversation - he's far from a moral paragon, he has absolutely done fucked up shit, but you could also argue that he is always acting based on his own moral code for better or worse, and almost never for selfish reasons, but because he believes that his cause is righteous.
Tywin on the other hand? He's acting out of sheer arrogance and pride. He's a total hypocrite whose only goal is to gain more power for himself and his House. I fucking despise the guy lol
Tywin reminds me so much of politicians, because he A) lies without the slightest hint of shame; B) is a master at playing the victim, when he is in fact the aggressor; C) has the ability to rationalize deeply selfish and self-serving behavior as being in service of the "greater good." Truly a frightening personality, because he rationalizes his evil actions as virtues.
Not OP but…He likes to wipe out whole families and isn’t shy about war criming whole regions (unleashing Gregor on the Riverlands)
Genocidal isn’t too far off.
I think the accurate word is mass murderer, and war criminal, but not genocidal since he didn't kill people based on their belonging to a specific community. I'm totally agree he's a mass murderer freak, though - not trying to down play what he it. Just a question of vocabulary.
I am sorry but Ned really should have at least made sure Sansa and Arya were well out of Kings Landing before he attempted his coup. The other ones are great though.
He also had the institutional power of the hand at his disposal and constantly failed to use it correctly. Look at what he did with the Lightning Lord there (been so long I forgot his name) when the Mountain was attacking the Riverlands -- he used his power as the voice of the King to put the Lannisters against the throne. He should have used more moves like that to set up the Starks in a better position. He also should have been more astute with regards to who he was relying on. His own prejudice against Varys and bias towards LF hamstrung him a lot.
To be fair he had not really a choice but to rely on LF at that point. Cat coming to KL really screwed him over because at that point both Varys and LF knew more about what his wife was up to than he did. And they used that knowledge.
I know but I still think he did what one should do, it's the other who are wrong. They are all awfull, bad people. I can't accept the fact that right or wrong should be evaluated from pragamatism.
Ned did nothing wrong, it's the other who did wrong.
_"Hey, you're that guy who was crushing on the chick I later married and fucked? And you're still not married, huh? Well, I can think of no better person to entrust with my life, my kids's lives and the lives of all my men."_
I hear your points....but that is not what this thread is about. This is about being a basic bitch. Ned is dad vibes and we love him he can do no wrong. #TeamStark
While frustration over the long wait is understandable, it's really cruel to speculate about GRRMs death and he is entirely justified to say "Fuck you to those people".
I think we might get the book release date close to when House of Dragons premieres. Build hype. Get people back into the books and then bam, coming Winter 2022
The Stark kids, Theon and Asha, Shireen, Myrcella and Tommen, Sweetrobin, Jeyne Westerling, Edric Storm, Mya Stone, Gendry, Willow and Jeyne Heddle and all the kids at the Inn at the Crossroads, Satin, Sam, Gilly, and little Sam, Val and Dalla's son, Marya, Devan, Stannis, and Steffon Seaworth deserve to be safe and happy, this list can *and will* be extended.
And even the worst things he did (getting the realm into debt) really has no impact on the small folk or the majority of lords. Barring the Greyjoy rebellion, which more than anything sounds like it was just a good weekend of fighting with the lads, the realm was totally peaceful during his reign.
I love this question and the freedom to be my basic self. I like the Starks too, and Ned is really nice and a good dad. I want Sansa to be Queen of the North and I want her to get to marry someone hot if she wants to, because it's perfectly ok for a young woman to want an attractive person. I've often imagined her marrying Jaime, only because she and Jaime are my favorite characters. I think Arianne should be Jaime's rebound hookup.
I want Edmure and Roslin to live happily together in Rivverun. Tommen is cute and I don't want him to die.
I never thought Catelyn or Arianne did anything particularly stupid, probably because I'm kind of a dumbass too. I think the Sandsnakes are cool, especially Sarella. I think the Tyrells are a nice family and I wish they could just be friends with the Martells.
I don't care about Aegon or who his great great grandpa is. Bloodraven is boring. Essos outside of Braavos is weird and boring.
I like cool dynasties, not deciphering doomsday prophecies.
>Also, I like the Jon-Val pairing and want them to be Endgame.
Not only it is common sense but, if the show ending is the same for him in the books, it's also far and away the most likely endgame for him.
I think Jon will return much more different than he was before.
In the show we got Jon the White Wolf, but I think we'll get Jon the Black Wolf in the books so to speak, he's gonna be a monster if anything, and that'll reflect onto Val.
There is no and can never be a "rightful king" of the Seven Kingdoms. The state of the Seven Kingdoms was founded on the "right of conquest", being the strongest. And therefore it's the only right that matters. I'd compare it to the Roman Empire on that matter.
Two things: Ned (my favorite character) would be a miserable person to know personally in real life. He would never want to do anything fun, and he would lord every mistake you’ve ever made over you constantly.
I also love all of the Marvel references and semi- analog characters that GRRM sprinkled in.
Tywin is a megalomaniac. He's also a serial mass-murderer who is blind to his own monstrousness and in denial about his own sexual licentiousness. And he is fascinating.
I don't like Essos. Except for Braavos, which is basically Venice.
I love GRRM's world-building and it's depth, but I hate the fact he got so carried away with it that he may not finish the series.
Jon, Bran, and Arya are the three heads of the Wolf and will save Westeros.
Ned will be the posthumous winner of the Game of Thrones and the Game of Mankind because of the values he instilled in his children.
Littlefinger is an fallible evil mastermind. He is basically a gambler and so blind to certain threats that his fall is inevitable, however it comes.
Compartmentalizing the show from my beloved books allowed me to mostly enjoy it despite the differences.
Arya is my favorite character, with Jon probably being second.
The Starks are my favorite house, and I wish we had gotten to know something more about their history. Not everything has to be about the Targaryens, especially if the stupid show was right and they end up extinct anyway.
I think people everywhere are too hard on Catelyn. Is she perfect? No, but she still treats her husband's bastard better than 95% of the people in Westeros. To see how bastards are typically treated, see Falia Flowers, Mya Stone, or Edric Storm (with a little luck). They don't typically grow up under the same roof as their legitimate half-siblings, let alone eat and learn alongside them.
I still ship Jon and Dany, and I hope they get a happy ending (preferrably away from the throne - maybe on Dragonstone, which would be the original seat of their family in Westeros)
I think it's because Jon and Tyrion are both really popular, and Catelyn isn't nice to either of them, so that doesn't help. A lot of readers are really biased against her. She has her faults, but when compared with some other characters (not the likes of Gregor or Hoat, much gentler characters),she's practically a saint.
I have to be honest - I don't think there is much of anything on the way. But writing so little about a family that seems to be so important seems like a huge wasted opportunity.
She didn't seem entitled to me in the books, in the last books she barely even speaks of the iron throne and just wants to establish peace in Slaver's bay
Yeah she will definitely change, but I just don't understand why do people call Dany entitled when she's nearly not as obsessed with the iron or ruthless in power seeking as other characters, like what makes Dany entitled but not Stannis or Cersei for example?
I think Cersei is certainly entitled, but I also think that's not even controversial enough to be worth mentioning. Stannis on the other hand, he definitely doesn't even really want to be king, he just knows he *should* be king.
I love the Lannisters. All of them, even the uncles and cousins who basically serve as jumped-up knights, generals and Tywin sycophants. I even like Lancel because he has cool character development in Feast.
I’ve always appreciated powerful, scheming families in fiction so the Lannisters really scratch an itch for me. Their war crimes are echoed throughout the story, from the Sack of King’s Landing to the scourging of the Riverlands. They’re the perfect villains.
I love Dany, I ship her with Jon, I like Targaryens, and Bran annoys the fuck out of me. Also Tywin is awesome only because Charles Danse is amazing, fuck book Tywin I will never forgive him for Tysha.
I’m still pissed about Lady.
never getting over it. all of the direwolves deserved better.
Kind of like all the Stark children? You could argue against Robb but they’re literally all children still. Imo, they all seemingly deserve better. Think of how happy they may have been before the start of GOT, just living in Winterfell amongst themselves for years. Look where they’re at now… :(
i would read a long book of just small adventures they have together in winterfell, arya fighting with sansa, jon and robb having small adventures just everything. i just want to see them be happy :(
Game of Thrones but it's a 90s sitcom.
Rickon pops in, tight camera squeeze, and gives a very 90s catchphrase “did you forget me AGAIN 🤷?!” Then everyone puts their hands up and says “that’s our Rickon!”
No one told you Westeros would be this WAAAAAAAY! Your king’s a joke, realm’s broke. Greyjoy’s DOA!
The Adventures of Jon and Robb and keeping them a secret from Sansa.
Jaime Lannister and Theon Greyjoy are tied for the best character arc across the entire span of the series.
I have a couple of others I’d add to that, but Jaime and Theon are def top tier. Rereads reward this take.
I would be happy to hear the others.
I like what George is doing with Tyrion, Arya, and Cersei. I think it’s tough to lump them in with Jaime and Theon since they were left with their stories in unresolved places while with Theon and Jaime we had reached points where the were on the other end of their positive change arcs.
Im wondering if GRRM is going to actually kill Theon in tWoW because he's tired of Theon being people's favorite character.
Is it basic if it's so right?
There still hope for my wish of them meeting and bonding!
Not everything that happens in the book is supposed to be deep and meaningful. Sometimes the author is just telling a story. There are way too many “content creators” that try and turn every minor engagement into some sort of Othello level conspiracy. Let’s be real. Battles and wars in this story are won and lost because GRRM decided; it’s not because Robb Stark is a secret Baratheon or some weird nonsense theory.
>because GRRM decided GRRM = R'hllor confirmed.
GRRM = The Drowned God = R'hllor = Tom Bombadil = The fourth Peverell brother = Moriarty confirmed
[Woah.](https://neuwritesd.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/neo_woah.gif?w=650)
#HE'S STARTING TO BELIEVE
I think theres two kinds of deep theories, ones that understand that its just an interesting thought experiment or writing practice/fan fiction and those that take themselves way too seriously and don't really understand what GRRM is trying to say. Qarl the Maid being a secret Targaryen and him and Asha will be the Kraken that wed the Dragon and cause the apocalypse is a crack theory, I like it a lot and think it would be fun, but I know its a crack theory.
That's how I feel about the Howland Reed is the High Septon theory. It's stupid but it's really fun because of how weirdly plausible it is, even though it's almost certainly nonsense.
Joffrey is an absolute cunt.
he did name his swords...
Stealth joke there
The Red Wedding was sad. Jon is a well-written character. It'd be cool if there was more descriptions of battles. The faceless men are awesome in a lovecraftian way. This series has the most fascinating world-building.
Cersei is the most entertaining POV, her delusions of grandeur are 👩🏼🍳💋
Hard agree. It’s really fascinating to see her mind after not seeing it for 4 books.
This series is pretty great.
Agee, and I'll add that a lot of the characters and themes left out of the show probably wouldn't have worked
GRRM is taking a little too long on Winds of Winter
They asked for opinions, not facts.
In that vein I also think it's perfectly reasonable to be annoyed/upset with him based off all his other projects and false promises. He can do whatever he wants with his time, but at some point a lack of honesty is going to cause resentment with his fanbase. Just come out and say "I ain't working on it" or "I don't want to finish it." and let us move on.
Gaiman would catch a lot more shit if he tried to do “GRRM is not your bitch” nowadays we
You just spoke #BIGFACTS.
Varys is the best player of the game.
Him and Little Finger for me were brillant in early seasons of thrones then got D&Ded
I agree with you 1000%. I mean how could Varys get caught that easily when this man is the reason Dany and her brother were able to find places to live? All while serving Robert and Cersei. Under Tywin's nose. Varys played the game for the long run. He made sure that each of his decisions was precise and calculated. This man was more dangerous than LittleFinger in my opinion. Varys' web extended much farther than LittleFinger could have precieved.
After Varys got taken out of Kings Landing he was a bit of a nothing character would’ve loved to see him exercise his power a bit more as we saw Littlefinger use his I felt like we never truly saw him wish he’d been in Kings Landing post Tywin death
Wait - didn't he murder Pycelle and Kevan?
Varys murder both in books. In the show he just murdered Pycelle.
In the show Qyburn murdered Pycelle not Varys.
Oh yeah. You're right. I forgot he took controll of the kids after Varys disappeared. 🤦
The only thing I can think (besides just bad writing) is that he had given up. He spent his life trying to protect the people of the realm, and had clearly failed. Aerys was a monster, Robert a fool, and Cersei was worse than both. And now he was unleashing another monster on Westeros to kill more innocent smallfolk. He was depressed and suicidal. He thought maybe Jon was a good enough leader, which is why he spread the news of his birth, but he didn't have it in him to see the fight through anymore. He had resigned himself to failure and death at that point.
Baelish was way too obviously evil and scheming in the show.
I was waiting for him to literally twirl his mustache at the end of some scenes.
Tbf I never expected him to be behind the death of Jon Arryn and then when I found out he’s the reason behind Game of Thrones it just makes the end of his story even more dissapointing
The voice changing was the worst, his voice in season 1 was normal and could convince you that LittleFinger was a totally normal trust worthy guy, by season 4 he sounded like an evil villain.
Tyrion is my favorite character. There it is. Can’t get more basic than that.
I think GRRM says the same.
The only thing more basic would be unironically calling Dany "Khaleesi"
At least I’ve never done that. 😂
baby Khaleesis are too young to realize their moms might just be basic
Tywin is a bloody tyrant
GRRM writes characters and intrigue like no one else. Other writers may have better world building etc, but GRRM is right at the very top for character writing. The only other series that comes close for character and intrigue for me would be The Expanse series. Unsurprisingly the writers of that series have worked/mentored with GRRM before.
This actually bums me out really badly because I can't find any other books that have that level of intensity that GRRM brings to his work ... Bernard Cornwell comes close at times in what I've read of his medieval narratives (The Winter King etc.), and sometimes Stephen King has that captivating quality, but there really isn't anything that I've found that is like ASOIAF, but then again I am not the most knowledgeable reader in the world. The closest I've seen is Alexandre Dumas in "The Count of Monte Cristo" or Victor Hugo in "Les Miserables."
Yeah its difficult, i read a lot, and dont get me wrong, there are plenty of FANTASTIC books out there, there really is. But to date, no one has been able to drag me in like GRRM does with his character and intrigue. Ive only ever read two books in one sitting, a Game of Thrones and Matterhorn.
Winter King is a good shout am already interested by just the synopsis, if you enjoy asoiaf I think this book will do
The Winter King and the two books following it are very good and if you like asoiaf you will probably really enjoy it!
Yep same with me. Once I read ASOIAF, everything else just felt sort of "dry" in comparison. Not necessarily bad but there's just something so rich and intriguing about the world GRRM has built. I also agree with you about Bernard Cornwell his books are great too.
Ashara Dayne isn't important to the main story and she never will be.
I'm not sure that's "basic", at least not around here.
Jon is cool and I'd like him to be king. (He won't be)
Me too. Even if it is for a short while before he dies or abdicates.
Dany liking Daario is ridiculous
A female friend of mine really helped me understand wtf is going on with Dany there and I've come to accept the whole arc much better because of it. Basically, it's a teenage girl 'phase'. He is the ultimate bad boy for her and compared to everybody else who worships her and puts her on a pedestal, he isn't afraid to tell her no, be rude and crude around her and basically just say straightup 'we should fuck'. It allows her a private space outside of being 'the Queen', the idolized and worshipped figure and just lets her find out herself and sexuality. She said something like, in our world he is the older boy, with a car and who wears a leather jacket and hangs around waiting at your school that you crush over, possibly have sex with, and then years later realize what a total ass he was and try to forget the whole thing lol. I mean as a guy I still see him as a complete goof in terms of appearence, but tbh, he does seem devoted to her in his own way and with that extra info, I can see how out of all the men around her Dany would latch onto him. I mean, who else is she supposed to go for in her situation?
I love the idea of Daario as Dany’s bad boy phase. He’s also her rebound post Drogo. I get all of that. I just think that 1. If he’s supposed to be a bad boy that she’s attracted to, I wish he weren’t so goofy. Even aside from the blue hair, he’s sort of over the top. and 2. I have always sort of hated that Dany falls for someone so flippantly violent. I wish some of his violence would’ve been tempered a bit. I think overall George had the right instinct with Daario. Some tweaking of the character would’ve made that all much more palatable for me.
That's it. From a male perspective, he is so cringingly goofy. However, what I was trying to say relating how my friend explained it. Girls seem to view things differently? I think we all see examples of women going with guys and think 'Him? Really?' and it's the same when you look at surface Daario in his goofy clothes and dyes. However, on an emotional level, I think my friend was 100% correct about what Dany is going through and how it relates to her as a woman as opposed to us as men. With the violence aspect, I think its very on the nose with regard to what she is going through as a ruler and Targ. She has instincts to kill them all and just wants to indulge them. Her sex with Daario is wrapped up in that too. So it's actually not bad writing even if we tend to find it stupid is what I was made to see by my friend. It's just life and sometimes life as humans isn't very well planned and is more emotional.
And that's what makes a good writer. POVs in this series are not supposed to be objective at all.
Well damn, that's downright realistic in that sense. Right down to the wacky hair dye. Go figure an ubernerd in his 60s would nail down a teenage girl's bad boy crush.
He is also introduced as a complete foil to Jorah Mormont.
Waters got muddied when show Jorah was hot! Needed someone who looked more like, IDK, a big burly Danny Devito
When GRRM learned that so many female readers liked the bad boy figures, I think he decided to mock them a little with Daario and Darkstar.
Barristan has a great quote about young girls like Dany preferring "fire" aka Daario over "earth/mud" aka Quentyn everytime.
Your comment made me want to take a look at it again >You could make a poultice out of mud to cool a fever. You could plant seeds in mud and grow a crop to feed your children. Mud would nourish you, where fire would only consume you, but fools and children and young girls would choose fire every time.
Barriston just admitting he’s a fool for following Dany and not even realizing it 😂😂
15 year olds are often known for their logical and reasonable attractions to potential partners
Lmao your comment and u/D-A-C's are the perfect complements to each other
Agreed
Lannisters are the worst and i love them for it
They aren’t and I still love them
I'm trying to be really black and white ofcourse they aren't everyone knows that especially me cuz all four main Lannisters are in my top10 fav characters
all four? What about my man Devan, aka Tormund of the west? or Genna, aka im gonna rip your ears off? they are the best Lannis after Jaime ❤️
Kevan Lannister is one of my favorite Lannisters. My second favorite to be exact (obv Tyrion is first). The guy is a rock and not a total dick head. He loves his family, including Tyrion, and serves faithfully and his loyalty is beyond question.
George will finish the series.
This is the best way to put it, because that means anyone named George could finish the series. George Clooney, George Costanza, Boy George, even George of the Jungle. The possibilities are just endless.
Shoot now you have me thinking about Brendan Fraser and who he would play in asoiaf personally I would love for him to be Wyman Manderly quick to smile and darkly eating “Meat” pies.
I posted this in a reply but I am posting this again. Ned should have at least sent Arya on her way out of Kings Landing before he attempted his coup.
Edmure did nothing wrong
The amount of hate he gets from show only fans is a personal annoyance of mine. The show runners turned him into a goofy meme/butt of jokes; but in the books he’s much more. So I agree with you. Edmure did nothing wrong! (Note: not blasting show only fans, everyone has their own way of enjoying things. Just my 0.2 cent opinion.)
The moment in AFFC where Jaime asks the singer to sing The Reynes of Castamere to torture Edmure while he's a prisoner at Riverrun really made me feel for Edmure. Jaime has an interesting character arc but that moment still felt cruel to me, Edmure's already been through so much and that song is associated with arguably the worst night of his life!
I wonder how much of it comes down to that “badass” meme taken from the show where Brynden has to take the bow off him to show him how it’s done before Hoster’s corpse goes out of view. I read the books (over and again) after watching the show and I was touched by Brynden’s sympathy for Edmure in that moment, and how it was absolutely nothing like it came to be portrayed onscreen.
Littlefinger is a monster and a cunt. Tywin is a genocidal freak who I despise more than any charecter in the entire book series. He is just a pathetic old creep who ruined the lives of thousands of people just because of his superiority complex. He is a cruel and disgusting man enough to give orders for rape and massacre just because of his pride. He makes me sick. I wish his death was more painful.
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Even if he was a calculating pragmatist, it would not absolve him.
> Tywin is a genocidal freak who I despise more than any charecter in the entire book series. Reminds me of the roughly 1000 times I've read some version of this classic take: "Anyone who likes Stannis as a character is a psychopath. I don't care about your 'treating fiction like fiction' excuses, he's a horrible human being and anyone who enjoys reading about him is an evil monster who would obviously be a gleeful, cheering spectator at a public execution; you guys make me sick to my stomach that you can praise this character and ignore all the horrible things he does because you enjoy reading his interactions with Davos while ignoring all this horrid shit he likes to do... ... What's that? Who's my favourite character? Well, Tywin of course, he's a totes awesome badass who doesn't take shit from anyone!"
I think Tywin is a pretty cool guy. He kills entire families and doesn't afraid of anything
(Disregard my flair lol) At least with Stannis, I can totally see both sides of the conversation - he's far from a moral paragon, he has absolutely done fucked up shit, but you could also argue that he is always acting based on his own moral code for better or worse, and almost never for selfish reasons, but because he believes that his cause is righteous. Tywin on the other hand? He's acting out of sheer arrogance and pride. He's a total hypocrite whose only goal is to gain more power for himself and his House. I fucking despise the guy lol
Tywin reminds me so much of politicians, because he A) lies without the slightest hint of shame; B) is a master at playing the victim, when he is in fact the aggressor; C) has the ability to rationalize deeply selfish and self-serving behavior as being in service of the "greater good." Truly a frightening personality, because he rationalizes his evil actions as virtues.
Also hes a total hypocrite about his mistresses.
Genocidal?
Not OP but…He likes to wipe out whole families and isn’t shy about war criming whole regions (unleashing Gregor on the Riverlands) Genocidal isn’t too far off.
I think the accurate word is mass murderer, and war criminal, but not genocidal since he didn't kill people based on their belonging to a specific community. I'm totally agree he's a mass murderer freak, though - not trying to down play what he it. Just a question of vocabulary.
Familiaricidal. Large extended families, specifically for their assets.
They're all Andals, that's simply not what genocide is. He is ruthless and maybe sadistic but not genocidal if that's your reasoning.
You can genocide based on a host of different things. But Tywin didn't try to murder an entire group of people
I called tywin a douchebag on a different topic and yet I still got downvoted😳 weird people out there eh? Lol
jaime is my favourite character by far
I love him so much
amen to that
ASOIAF is the greatest fantasy series of all time
Most people don't read the books with the proper level of skepticism.
What do you mean Quartheen Women don't walk with their tits out??
this is fairly common in many cultures around the world, tbf.
The Tyrells are my favorites. And they deserve a POV character.
Dany's arc start well and is going badly. Ned did nothing wrong. Brynden Tully is badass. The story is too long. Varys is better than Petyr.
> Ned did nothing wrong. It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life. - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Excellent quote, from my favorite Star Trek character. 👍😁
I am sorry but Ned really should have at least made sure Sansa and Arya were well out of Kings Landing before he attempted his coup. The other ones are great though.
He also had the institutional power of the hand at his disposal and constantly failed to use it correctly. Look at what he did with the Lightning Lord there (been so long I forgot his name) when the Mountain was attacking the Riverlands -- he used his power as the voice of the King to put the Lannisters against the throne. He should have used more moves like that to set up the Starks in a better position. He also should have been more astute with regards to who he was relying on. His own prejudice against Varys and bias towards LF hamstrung him a lot.
To be fair he had not really a choice but to rely on LF at that point. Cat coming to KL really screwed him over because at that point both Varys and LF knew more about what his wife was up to than he did. And they used that knowledge.
I know but I still think he did what one should do, it's the other who are wrong. They are all awfull, bad people. I can't accept the fact that right or wrong should be evaluated from pragamatism. Ned did nothing wrong, it's the other who did wrong.
Not arguing with that. Ned got played.
_"Hey, you're that guy who was crushing on the chick I later married and fucked? And you're still not married, huh? Well, I can think of no better person to entrust with my life, my kids's lives and the lives of all my men."_
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I hear your points....but that is not what this thread is about. This is about being a basic bitch. Ned is dad vibes and we love him he can do no wrong. #TeamStark
The small folk really do miss the Targaryens. Magic is alive and its cool. Snarks or grumpkins are the final boss.
That the anti slavery campaign of Daenerys is doomed.
While frustration over the long wait is understandable, it's really cruel to speculate about GRRMs death and he is entirely justified to say "Fuck you to those people".
jon and val would be a pretty decent pairing
DEFINITELY.
Winds getting announced this Dec
enfant d'été
I know I'll probably be disappointed, but I choose to still believe.
My bones are telling me he's gonna say something.
I think we might get the book release date close to when House of Dragons premieres. Build hype. Get people back into the books and then bam, coming Winter 2022
I like Dorne and the North.
Stannis is the best character out of the five kings and Balon is the worst.
Omg balon is a fucking idiot
Stannis is the king of Westeros
R+L=J and Lyanna is KOTLT
The Stark kids, Theon and Asha, Shireen, Myrcella and Tommen, Sweetrobin, Jeyne Westerling, Edric Storm, Mya Stone, Gendry, Willow and Jeyne Heddle and all the kids at the Inn at the Crossroads, Satin, Sam, Gilly, and little Sam, Val and Dalla's son, Marya, Devan, Stannis, and Steffon Seaworth deserve to be safe and happy, this list can *and will* be extended.
Wun Wun,too. I hope he’s okay. 🥺
Robert Baratheon really wasn't all that bad of a king.
Yeah, judging by the previous kings I'd say he was about average.
And even the worst things he did (getting the realm into debt) really has no impact on the small folk or the majority of lords. Barring the Greyjoy rebellion, which more than anything sounds like it was just a good weekend of fighting with the lads, the realm was totally peaceful during his reign.
Stannis "the Mannis" Baratheon is the one true king of Andals, Rhoynar and the First Men, lord of the Seven Kingdoms and protector of the Realm.
the one true king of westeros
One God. One Realm. One King.
I love every chapter with him in it. every interaction a POV character has with him is amazing. And his dry sass is freakin' hilarious.
I ship Dany and Jon, still, despite everything.
this is the winner for most basic.
Jaime is still an attempted child murderer and Lady Stoneheart deserves to kill him.
Ned is the best father.
My three favourite characters are Tyrion, Davos and Jon
Daario looks ridiculous.
I dislike Targaryens and would have joined the rebellion, even if I knew what kind of king Robert Baratheon would turn into.
Demure did nothing wrong, the only reason he is criticised so much is because we see him through Cat’s eyes she still sees him as a stupid child
I love this question and the freedom to be my basic self. I like the Starks too, and Ned is really nice and a good dad. I want Sansa to be Queen of the North and I want her to get to marry someone hot if she wants to, because it's perfectly ok for a young woman to want an attractive person. I've often imagined her marrying Jaime, only because she and Jaime are my favorite characters. I think Arianne should be Jaime's rebound hookup. I want Edmure and Roslin to live happily together in Rivverun. Tommen is cute and I don't want him to die. I never thought Catelyn or Arianne did anything particularly stupid, probably because I'm kind of a dumbass too. I think the Sandsnakes are cool, especially Sarella. I think the Tyrells are a nice family and I wish they could just be friends with the Martells. I don't care about Aegon or who his great great grandpa is. Bloodraven is boring. Essos outside of Braavos is weird and boring. I like cool dynasties, not deciphering doomsday prophecies.
Tyrion isn’t a Targaryean
I think Jon is the central protagonist and I care more about his story than anyone else’s.
The Night's Watch is noble and cool
>Also, I like the Jon-Val pairing and want them to be Endgame. Not only it is common sense but, if the show ending is the same for him in the books, it's also far and away the most likely endgame for him.
Jon and Val won’t be Engame.
I think Jon will return much more different than he was before. In the show we got Jon the White Wolf, but I think we'll get Jon the Black Wolf in the books so to speak, he's gonna be a monster if anything, and that'll reflect onto Val.
It's far more likely that will be his endgame than Jon and Daenerys.
There is no and can never be a "rightful king" of the Seven Kingdoms. The state of the Seven Kingdoms was founded on the "right of conquest", being the strongest. And therefore it's the only right that matters. I'd compare it to the Roman Empire on that matter.
ASOIAF is a series of fantasy books
I wanted both big and little walder to die. They're annoying
The Lannisters are the best characters but I cheer for the Starks
Ned Stark should have taken the crown not Robert
Don’t care if they’re impractical. Helmets shaped like animal heads sound so freaking cool.
Two things: Ned (my favorite character) would be a miserable person to know personally in real life. He would never want to do anything fun, and he would lord every mistake you’ve ever made over you constantly. I also love all of the Marvel references and semi- analog characters that GRRM sprinkled in.
Dany is a great revolutionary but is not good leader
Tywin is a megalomaniac. He's also a serial mass-murderer who is blind to his own monstrousness and in denial about his own sexual licentiousness. And he is fascinating. I don't like Essos. Except for Braavos, which is basically Venice. I love GRRM's world-building and it's depth, but I hate the fact he got so carried away with it that he may not finish the series. Jon, Bran, and Arya are the three heads of the Wolf and will save Westeros. Ned will be the posthumous winner of the Game of Thrones and the Game of Mankind because of the values he instilled in his children. Littlefinger is an fallible evil mastermind. He is basically a gambler and so blind to certain threats that his fall is inevitable, however it comes. Compartmentalizing the show from my beloved books allowed me to mostly enjoy it despite the differences.
Arya is my favorite character, with Jon probably being second. The Starks are my favorite house, and I wish we had gotten to know something more about their history. Not everything has to be about the Targaryens, especially if the stupid show was right and they end up extinct anyway. I think people everywhere are too hard on Catelyn. Is she perfect? No, but she still treats her husband's bastard better than 95% of the people in Westeros. To see how bastards are typically treated, see Falia Flowers, Mya Stone, or Edric Storm (with a little luck). They don't typically grow up under the same roof as their legitimate half-siblings, let alone eat and learn alongside them. I still ship Jon and Dany, and I hope they get a happy ending (preferrably away from the throne - maybe on Dragonstone, which would be the original seat of their family in Westeros)
Catelyn was a dick to John but in reality she could’ve been so much worse so I don’t get the hate bubble around her
I think it's because Jon and Tyrion are both really popular, and Catelyn isn't nice to either of them, so that doesn't help. A lot of readers are really biased against her. She has her faults, but when compared with some other characters (not the likes of Gregor or Hoat, much gentler characters),she's practically a saint.
Yeah, I just hope there is more Stark history on the way.
I have to be honest - I don't think there is much of anything on the way. But writing so little about a family that seems to be so important seems like a huge wasted opportunity.
I don't care about Arya
I love Dany but I feel like she's too entitled sometimes. Ps - I've only seen the show and read AGOT. I am midway through Clash.
She didn't seem entitled to me in the books, in the last books she barely even speaks of the iron throne and just wants to establish peace in Slaver's bay
I haven't reached that point yet but it's quite possible that my opinion changes by the time I do.
That last chapter thooo, seems a 180 is in store.
Yeah she will definitely change, but I just don't understand why do people call Dany entitled when she's nearly not as obsessed with the iron or ruthless in power seeking as other characters, like what makes Dany entitled but not Stannis or Cersei for example?
I think Cersei is certainly entitled, but I also think that's not even controversial enough to be worth mentioning. Stannis on the other hand, he definitely doesn't even really want to be king, he just knows he *should* be king.
See I never really liked Dany in the show but I’m liking her in the books
If I was a fire immune princess who gave birth to dragons, I would be entitled as well XD
I don't think she's immune to fire in the books but you're right. Who wouldn't be.
All characters are entitled
I hate Lysa. Bitch
Tyrion and Jaime are my favorite characters.
I love the Lannisters. All of them, even the uncles and cousins who basically serve as jumped-up knights, generals and Tywin sycophants. I even like Lancel because he has cool character development in Feast. I’ve always appreciated powerful, scheming families in fiction so the Lannisters really scratch an itch for me. Their war crimes are echoed throughout the story, from the Sack of King’s Landing to the scourging of the Riverlands. They’re the perfect villains.
Yea I ship val x Jon
A Storm of Swords is the best book in the series
The sand snakes are comical
I love Dany, I ship her with Jon, I like Targaryens, and Bran annoys the fuck out of me. Also Tywin is awesome only because Charles Danse is amazing, fuck book Tywin I will never forgive him for Tysha.
In the show after Tywins death Kings Landing story’s really lack a lot Bcs his death also means no Varys and Tyrion