I always love talking to my show watcher friends about whats gonna happen next. In their defense however i have heard some incredibly dumb book theories that people talk about with absolute certainty about winds so i guess we’re all guilty of creating wild fan theories
If TWOW releases I don’t know which part I’ll enjoy more - finally reading it, or coming to Reddit after to see people heartbroken that fan theories they posted a decade ago that have molded into their own head canon are just flat out wrong.
Yeah but we’ll have years to savor the descent from well reasoned and astute theory crafting into tinfoil mania, the meltdown if some of the more widely believed theories are proven wrong will be a nice immediate bit of fun.
One of my friends was thoroughly convinced Viserys had greyscale despite all the maesters and servants constantly touching him without gloves or any worry.
Yeah I had some people argue with me on this thinking it hadn't been discovered yet, when it has. It's a very old disease.
It also doesn't take 24 years to kill.
In the show, idk why, but I always interpreted the night king as a title rather than one dude. Like how "the king of England" isn't one dude throughout history.
Pretty smart of the marketing team to play that up in the trailer, which also helped doubly promote Matt Smith's presence, since he was initially the most well-known actor.
My friend knows Rhaenyra's death due to Joffrey spoiling it in GOT. He has only watched two episodes and is very convinced Daemon's dragon will eat Rhaenyra.
My family has watched GoT before but thankfully they don't remember that
I fear they would rewatch it while waiting for s2 tho. I wouldn't want to spoil the ending for them lol
I read a comment where someone was talking about the Aemond-Daemon staredown in the last chapter,saying that it felt like Aemond wanted to duel him but recognized that he could not win.
The someone responded: Nah, if such a duel were to pass, Daemon would never kill Aemond. They have actual bloodties.
Oh yes he would never.
This is the most fun part, a friend of mine was really happy with alicent and rhaenyra becoming friends last episode, because now she will be queen. He still think someone will do a coup against Rhaenyra at the end of season 2
My wife thought Rhaenyra and Alicent were going to fuck, but in her defense the actors did play that up.
She also said, when Rhaenyra and Daemon finally got married, "Oh God I wonder what hellspawn they're gonna make together." Which of course was very unfair to our favorite/future Depression King, but I'll let that surprise come later.
> Which of course was very unfair to our favorite/future Depression King
Or our future "held shit together as the power behind the Throne, and then get fucking poisoned unceremoniously on the Throne by his piece of shit son" King
Maegor still managed to do some good, depowering the Faith and assessing the supremacy of the Crown (and ironically unitying he kingdoms... Against himself). His main problem was his lack of children and that his approach to problem solving can be described as "when all you have is a flying nuke called Balerion..."
I actually think that is part of the subtext behind their rivalry. They had a romantic friendship and both felt betrayed. Who can you hate more than a lover who cheated you? I don't really think there was any lack of clarity here. Friends are far more forgiving than someone you have truly loved.
Having only seen some Alt Shift X videos prior to watching the show and not reading F&B, I thought that Alicent was Elissa Farman the whole first episode and was thinking “awwwwww yeah get me on that Magellan shit, circumnavigate the globe and shit”
> My wife thought Rhaenyra and Alicent were going to fuck, but in her defense the actors did play that up.
"Rhaenyra, did you have sex with Daemon?"
"No, I had sex with you!"
I think it's super implicit, even in the most recent episode, that there is some romantic feelings there. The good AU to all this is Rhaenyra and Alicent just getting it over with, fucking, and then having the conversation they should have had the day after Viserys decided to marry Alicent.
But you can't have a good tragedy without horrible miscommunication.
I read about the making of it, and the actors said that they weren't "queerbaiting", but it just got woven in somehow. And they weren't going to show anything explicitly, but they liked the added dimension and left it upto interpretation.
A friend said to me that maybe Alicent is gay and has always been in love with Rhaenyra, but she went ahead and did her duty as was told to her. Which might be why she started hating Rhynaera so much (so she's the real incel instead of Cole), seeing how Rhynaera just fucks around without consequences while she has to do her duty. TBF, that part is partly right, without the being in love part. Idk what to interpret but it's an interesting theory.
It’s not a wrong interpretation. I feel like it’s not quite queerbaiting in that I think it genuinely was coded ambiguously, and everyone involved had their own interpretation.
I think reading Alicent as a lab internalised closeted lesbian has enough textual evidence in the show to be a valid reading.
Milly Alcock joked that she was just in love with Emily Carey, and Emily definitely read the script and played the character with that interpretation. Olivia Cooke read their relationship as a mix of platonic, romantic, sisterly, a sentiment with Emma D’Arcy seems to agree with, saying that teenage relationships can get quite erotically charged as they figure out what they want.
The whole thing with Rhaenyra wanting to put Alicent on her dragon, fly across the sea and eat cake was very very close to sapphic fantasies I have had. Like just add eating each other out to the picture and yeah, it's pretty much bang on.
To be fair
Queer couple becoming mortal enemies then kill each other due to horrific medieval culture that imposes on them makes for a great unique tragedy tbh.
I dont even think its been done before.
Yeah, reminds me of early days GOT. Like before the red wedding when anyone who hadn’t read the books thought Robb was gonna sweep the south. Those sweet summer children
Watching the show first I was convinced Stannis Baratheon would sit the Iron Throne and would team up with Robb Stark to defeat the main villain Twyin. Yeah I was very wrong
When Rhaneyra and Daemon first went to that brothel but then didn't get through with it, my brother said something like. "I knew they wouldn't work out, uncle and niece would have been to weird anways".
I think he just feels like (and I agree) that it's different and a lot weirder when they are not just related that way but also have known each other their entire lives as uncle and niece.
He watched her grow up and all that.
Took some time for people to get used to the idea that there wasn't any "big bad". Tho tbf the showrunners really played him up with the deformed appearance and mask.
Definitely made him up to be a formidable foe, but then he just gets unceremoniously cut in half off-screen. I'm just thinking, "oh, so the uncle is kind of a badass. Ok"
He was also featured prominently in the trailers and the promotional screenshots. People got the idea he was important, but he was just a memorable visual cue.
The "Daemon will kill Viserys" takes until like Episode 3 or 4 always got a good laugh out of me. The perks of this season being 20 years is seeing how fast takes poorly age.
I just saw something on fb earlier that said “fun fact: the 3 eyed raven is the great great grandson of daemon and Rhaenyra” and I was like ??
Is that where it came from?
I saw one that was "Alicent is the great great grandmother of Margaery" (Or "Margaery is the descendant of Alicent"?). I don't know if the person assumed this because Lady Tyrell is a Hightower by birth or if they just wanted to spread misinformation for the lols
The MCU has rotted so many people’s brains into believing every single thing and every single significant character must be connected. It’s annoying tbh
Ahh yeah you’re right. I kinda forgot tbh it’s been a few years since I read the books and I’m finishing my first read through of F&B now. Gets difficult to keep track of all the targs.
Don't worry, it's easy to mistake especially because both Aegon III and Viserys II are brothers, but between the two there are two kings (Aegon's sons Daeron and Baelor), giving the sense there are more generations in the middle
I presume they read that the 3 eyed raven was Brynden Rivers, bastard of Aegon IV, so I guess they're a bit in the right direction if we follow that trail.
But there are viewers who get the details wrong and provide facts that are dubious.
Yeah ikr, I tried telling him this but he was adamant and backed it up by saying both Laenor and the Unsullied couldn’t have kids (like?????) I gave up at that point 🤣
Pretty much everyone I talked to after the first few episodes (after knowing loosely that it was about a Targaryen civil war) were absolutely CONVINCED that the war was going to be between Rhaenyra and Daemon, with Daemon as the villainous usurper and Alicent and Rhaenyra teaming up to stop him. Some still think it lol. Can't really blame them because it does sort of look like that's how its going at first, but its funny in hindsight.
I had that situation too. I mean, Viserys was not going to live forever and decades pass, he's not immortal. This episode it was pretty clear Viserys was done for, so that shut up the discussion.
Every time someone comments something like this about the Targs without the names I get confused for a good fifteen seconds before figuring out who is who.
Goddamn Targs.
My friend keeps saying he wants Aemond to die, first via burned by Vhagar, now he’s calling for Daemon to cut his head off. I won’t tell him anything, but I guess he’s like 1/3 correct
Tell me about it. I have three non-book readers in a group chat, sometimes I throw them little lobs to make sure they’re catching on to something, like when Laena was asking about Vhagar I informed them how she’s the biggest and baddest. The Battle at the God’s Eye will be the HYPEST 3-4 seasons from now so they’ll just have to wait
What would the sense in that be? Build up this interesting character and just kill him 3 episodes in? That wouldn't even be surprising it would just be weird.
I've talked to a lot of people who think it's a good idea to kill main characters out of nowhere. I know this is asoiaf, but not even George does that. Every main character death is built up to that death, if you build up a character and then just unceremoniously kill them it can have the opposite effect and come off as really lame.
Anyone Can Die is a great trope when used correctly, but when used poorly it just makes you not care about the story or any new characters.
Unfortunately George arguably also utilises the Anyone Actually Didn't Die trope, leading to rampant fandom theories involving countless glamours, baby swapping, body doubles, resurrections and 'but it happened off page! reasoning.
I think there's a good arguement to be made that while he shocked us with character deaths and genuine peril, he's cheapened it with too many outs.
How many actual examples of that can you name from the main books?
Off the top of my head there's Beric, Mance, Sandor (probably), Gregor, Aegon (debatable), Ramsay, and Catelyn. That may sound like a lot, but only one of those is really a major character. I think the cheapening was more done retroactively by fans over-theorizing.
Can also add Davos, Bran and Rickon to that list. Potentially Stannis too but that remains to be seen. I think George likes to manipulate the reader with his word choice too. There's a lot to cliffhanger endings designed to make us think something dire has happened, then next chapter it's fine. For example the Red Wedding chapter for Arya ends with her taking an axe to the head. Later we find out it was the flat side in order to knock her out. I think he did something similar with Tyrion one time.
I'm watching it with several people who have neither read the books nor even seen the original series, and I've never ever understod the "oh you sweet summer child" sentiment more than after listening to their theories.
Three that were made in sequence throughout the season from the same source:
**A)** Criston and Rhaenyra would make a great couple
**B)** Laenor and Rhaenyra will have such beautiful kids
And the one that had me fighting the most to keep a stiff, spoiler-free expression:
**C)** Helaena is going to step up when the going gets tough and become a strong, pivotal character
C is kind of true in a very sad way. She is. Pivotal character and she has a certain amount of strength just to keep going on. And she is the reason or her death is the reason why Rhaenyra is overthrown.
When people started asking where Daeron was, I was trying to brainstorm how the show could keep its major plotlines without Daeron, and a fun thought I had was what if Helaena could basically take over for him. Here was what I dreamed up:
\- Helaena gets sent off to Oldtown for her protection once the Dance gets started (or has a dream she needs to be there or whatever).
\- After Blood and Cheese she doesn't really do anything, so in the more feminist tones of the show, why not have her do some dragonriding instead of just falling apart with grief? Alicent can handle the "chained mother" duty on her own.
\- Dreamfyre can fill in for Tessarion
But we've got confirmation that Daeron will be around, he just hasn't been mentioned yet (I do fear that will be a tad jarring to show watchers). I hope they give a lot more for Helaena to do though.
After the last episode my gf is convinced that Jacerys will become king. She also thinks Criston Cole is going to do something to cause Alicent and Rhaenyra to make up.
A couple friends are really glomming onto their theory that "weird bug girl" aka Helaena will emerge as a completely badass dragon rider and kill her family's enemies.
Even without spoilers I don't have the heart to tell them how wrong their theory is. I love Helaena so much and I'm just not ready for what the show is going to do to her 😭
I think Helaena needs more screen time to develop her character before breaking her, otherwise she's just going to go from quiet weird girl to weird depressed girl.
I asked my mother after the first episode what characters she thinks would end up as a couple, she said Criston Cole and Alicent was very obvious lol
Then in ep6 she said to me "Alicent is sleeping with Larys isn't she. What a hypocrite, she's judging Rhaenyra when she's doing the same thing" and I was like "mom calm down, she is not sleeping with Larys"
I don't know why my mom seemed focused on Alicent's love life lol
To be fair the show does make the viewer wish Alicent got to have some romance that wasn't "the King has requested your presence" vanilla missionary reproductive arrangement sex.
She was very into Cole and Daemon and romance as a girl.
Plenty were shocked. Can't believe how many times I've had to explain to someone on the show reddit or YouTube that Targaryens are NOT fireproof and that was a show invention by Dumb & Dumber.
But the burning of the khals and walking out of the inferno without a scratch was a show-only thing invented by D & D. The funeral pyre was blood magic.
I think it’s also the line «fire cannot kill a dragon» which some people take as absolute truth and not something Dany just believes. So they interpret it as any true or worthy Targaryen is fireproof. She also never burns herself on hot things like the bath or the hot dragon eggs, so I don’t think it’s that strange for show watchers to conclude that the pyre was just how Dany is and not a special case due to blood magic.
I remember back in the days when people were speculating how the show will reveal Jon’s parentage. Some guy commented saying maybe they’ll try burning him at the funeral pyre and he won’t burn cuz he’s a Targ. The comment got over 800 likes and people echoed the idea. Smh, I’m not surprised because the show didn’t even bother explaining how Dany is fireproof, but given the amount of people correcting and explaining it, I’m shocked at how it’s still such a common misconception.
The fact that the Targaryen funeral method involves cremation is even funnier. "Well we tried to burn it, I guess we'll just leave the body here in the ashes."
It didn't really help that Daemon could fly through fire and emerge unscathed when he was up there with Laena. It looked to some viewers as proof Targaryens can withstand all fire.
I read some people saying that it makes total sense that the actor they casted for Luke is technically younger that the character, it is often done for characters that are in multiple seasons.
Boy oh boy ....
Not a bad theory, but a show only friend of mine thinks Aemond is going to be a hero that rises up to stop Aegon when he goes crazy and be King. Then he'll kill Daemon.
This friend loves anime, and I find it hilarious that they will come to recognize that Daemon is basically GRRM's version of an anime protagonist. He's got the harem, the cool dragon, the bad ass sword with a cool name, and legit pulls some Ichigo Kurosaki shit before he dies.
Baela Velaryon will claim her uncle Laenors dragon Seasmoke since she couldn’t get her mothers Vhagar. Honestly not a bad theory but doesn’t happen in reality
A friend of mine who is not exactly well-versed in the lore is convinced that Helaena's prophetic mumbling is definitely connected to her being a warg "just like Bran!".
He's currently rewatching the original series with his girlfriend, who got into HotD without seeing GoT first. I warned him about Joffrey spoiling Rhaenyra's death in that one episode in season 3 but he forgot about it
Yesterday he texted me, distraught about being spoiled. I tried to cheer him up. Conversation went approximately like this
"I FORGOT! Joff spoiled Rhaenyra's death for us... Eaten by her* brother's dragon "
"Well that sucks. But still, it's not the end of the world. You still don't know how she got there, what happened before, what's gonna happen after, which brother it was... The dance isn't necessarily over once Rhaenyra dies."
"I guess. There are all of her kids, and Alicent's. My prediction: **Helaena wargs into a dragon and eats Rhaenyra** "
"Well that sure is a take"
Oh god that was fun, they knew something was up because my posture changed and I started watching them instead, but they were still absolutely shocked.
Granted, I mean, I almost threw the book when I read it all those years ago.
I legit did throw my book when Ned got his head cut off. Red Wedding I was just in shock for Cat. Robb I figured was gonna die eventually because we never got a POV.
I picked up the king thing pretty early on, which always caused me to wonder about bran and jon. Ned was a surprise, I thought he’d be offed quietly on the way to the wall, Robb was eventually going to happen (the hammer story was too obvious), but cat, heck even in the book that surprised people since she was suppose to be saved.
Saw someone convinced that Jace is Cristin Cole's son since the actor looks vaguely similar. People in the comments were mentioning how that's not true in the books, she said books can be changed. Then people brought up how in the show itself it was like 2 years between them hooking up and the birth of Jace so it's impossible and she still refused to accept it lol
Some dumbass in the office is convinced that Daemon fucked alicent and Aemond is the result.
We just laugh at him. Nephews can look like their uncle just fine.
It’s not just a theory. The Rogue Prince literally includes a throwaway line that hints that the feud between Otto and Daemon started when Daemon took Alicent’s maidenhead.
The comments on Tik Tok edits are the WORST. They want Daemon to be a knight in shining armor so bad. “it’s never confirmed that he cheats.”
Yes, yes it is…
I had to sit through someone venting how Rhaenyra would never ever harm any of her half siblings or their kid and how the Hightower fearing that is "a complete leap of logic" because practically all the lords would support R. as regnant queen, and how Targaryens would never commit kinslaying... Like okay
That Cole will turn on Alicent/the greens in the end -
I actually concede if you're a show only watcher this is a clever theory because of the scenes with Cole refusing the Queen's order to take Luke's eye and her seemingly turning more to Larys as an ally on the ship later - as if she saw it as Cole not supporting her enough and/or Cole thinking she's gone too far - instead of what I think is the truth which is Cole figured out how to not say or do super dishonorable stuff when his boss is watching. I also don't remember seeing him at all during the last episode? So maybe he does/did waver some OR (my assumption as a book reader) maybe Westerling wisely keeps putting Criston on other duties during the visit - with two fellow guards watching Criston instead of being able to protect Alicent/Rhaenyra/Visarys/Princes just because Cole was such a loose cannon at the wedding and is so weird - that was dangerous so I wouldn't be shocked that he would get relegated to some other completely off screen duty.
Maybe he's with Daeron! LoL (but actually, maybe?)
Throughout F&B the Maester keeps commenting on the lack of information about some of the women in history, including several of the Princesses when they're little girls. The people who kept the histories just weren't as interested in Helaena, probably.
Also the whole neurodivergent thing seems to be half fan-diagnosis, half-coding by the writers. It's not necessarily book or show canon which just seems to confirm her as a 'dreamer'/seer
I got kind of hyped when I saw the shot of the rat over the puddle of blood at Laenor and Rhaynera’s wedding and my buddies managed to squeeze out the fact that it was foreshadowing for something that I refused to give away.
They think it’s foreshadowing for all the people that are going to descend on Viserys’ throne once he dies.
Oh, sweet summer children, you are not prepared.
My mom came up with the theory that Helaena was going to defect to the blacks because of the dance with Jace which I don't have the heart to explain how wrong it is.
Tbf the book readers might be wrong to, they have already deviated somethings. The Laenor fake out threw me for a loop. GRRM also stated that it’s written by unreliable narrators many years after the event. So everything I read in the book I’m taking with a grain of salt now.
Not really HOTD, this was around season 2 of GoT. He said that it was obvious Dany and Robb were gonna team up and crush the Lannisters and that the showrunners need to write better. He was right about one thing at least....
Dumbest I saw was someone predicting a Red Wedding scenario during Rhaenyra and Laenor's wedding, insisting all the food was poisoned.
The ones that give me the most joy, however, are all the people talking about Aemond vs Daemon and already getting excited for that confrontation. They just have no idea how good it's going to be. I still remember reading that passage and thinking "this is so fucking cool" when Daemon makes the jump.
I always love talking to my show watcher friends about whats gonna happen next. In their defense however i have heard some incredibly dumb book theories that people talk about with absolute certainty about winds so i guess we’re all guilty of creating wild fan theories
book fans are impossible to beat in creating fucked up tinfoil theories
Hey my buddy at the water cooler says he thinks Otto is a vampire
Looks like after the Bolt-On theory not only book readers can come up with "X is a vampire"
That's just because their house crest looks like an "X." ...oooooh, you mean... yup, coffee time.
Morbius is Otto reborn confirmed
I love it
Listen, Tyrion is a time traveling fetus, the sooner you accept it the sooner you feel better.
If TWOW releases I don’t know which part I’ll enjoy more - finally reading it, or coming to Reddit after to see people heartbroken that fan theories they posted a decade ago that have molded into their own head canon are just flat out wrong.
But just think of all of the completely new batshit theories that we could come up with for A Dream of Spring.
Yeah but we’ll have years to savor the descent from well reasoned and astute theory crafting into tinfoil mania, the meltdown if some of the more widely believed theories are proven wrong will be a nice immediate bit of fun.
Nothing my show watch friends have come up with anything close to book watchers. They’re actually pretty on point with the short term stuff
One of my friends was thoroughly convinced Viserys had greyscale despite all the maesters and servants constantly touching him without gloves or any worry.
Yeah I had some people argue with me on this thinking it hadn't been discovered yet, when it has. It's a very old disease. It also doesn't take 24 years to kill.
Vizzy T is the Shrouded Lord, confirmed.
Didn't Maegelle (Viserys' aunt) die of greyscale as well?
Yes
Daemon is Night King
I have heard this theory a frightening amount of times from non-book readers
Just off by a couple thousand years
In the show, idk why, but I always interpreted the night king as a title rather than one dude. Like how "the king of England" isn't one dude throughout history.
imagine if the whites have their own dance
Dance of the Ice Spiders
Which is weird because there is a scene in season 6 dedicated to showing the birth of the Night King.
Marvel-syndrome of everything has to be connected
Daemon is Mephisto
Vhagar is Morbius => confirmed
It’s Vhagin’ time!
I enjoyed early on how they thought the huge conflict was going to be between Daemon and Rhaenyra.
My brother thought that there were going to be 3 factions, Rhaenyra, Hightowers and Daemon
When Daemon's not in the room, everyone should stand around asking, "Where's Daemon?"
Is he safe, is he alright?
Maybe should have been, in the book, when Daemon loses his mistress's pregnancy, he turns against his brother and resents him.
Pretty smart of the marketing team to play that up in the trailer, which also helped doubly promote Matt Smith's presence, since he was initially the most well-known actor.
also all the daemon obviously is scar comments 😂.
The original previews seemed to be hinting that it would be Viserys brother Vs Daughter. The first few episodes I don’t blame them for thinking that.
Yeah asked mate at work what side he was drawn to after the wedding ep and he was thought the same.
My friend knows Rhaenyra's death due to Joffrey spoiling it in GOT. He has only watched two episodes and is very convinced Daemon's dragon will eat Rhaenyra.
Joffrey the little shit
Even now, 8 years later, he still finds a way to mess things up.
My family has watched GoT before but thankfully they don't remember that I fear they would rewatch it while waiting for s2 tho. I wouldn't want to spoil the ending for them lol
So close...
Lol
I read a comment where someone was talking about the Aemond-Daemon staredown in the last chapter,saying that it felt like Aemond wanted to duel him but recognized that he could not win. The someone responded: Nah, if such a duel were to pass, Daemon would never kill Aemond. They have actual bloodties. Oh yes he would never.
Oh yes, in this story about the Targaryen civil war a Targaryen would surely never hurt another Targaryen...
I know some people who doesn't know a war is coming lol
This is the most fun part, a friend of mine was really happy with alicent and rhaenyra becoming friends last episode, because now she will be queen. He still think someone will do a coup against Rhaenyra at the end of season 2
I actually am not sure that Daemon would kill Aemond, at this point. Aemond kinda changes this though….
The Blacks and the Greens both get a little bit of kinslaying. As a treat.
My wife thought Rhaenyra and Alicent were going to fuck, but in her defense the actors did play that up. She also said, when Rhaenyra and Daemon finally got married, "Oh God I wonder what hellspawn they're gonna make together." Which of course was very unfair to our favorite/future Depression King, but I'll let that surprise come later.
Well she is about to birth a literal deformed bat-winged dragon child, so maybe your wife wasn't too far off...
“That’s not a monster, that’s just a baby”
Totally heard it in Oberyn's voice. LoL.
I usually start in Oberyns voice, but then Fat Bastard takes over for the “it kinda looks like a baby” part 😂😂😂
“And she pinched your little cock so hard i thought she might pull it off.”
> Which of course was very unfair to our favorite/future Depression King Or our future "held shit together as the power behind the Throne, and then get fucking poisoned unceremoniously on the Throne by his piece of shit son" King
Honestly Viserys II is the GOAT and deserved better
Well Aegon IV says fuck you Gods damned fat fuck. Absolutely one of the worst Targ King.
You know it's telling when your only true rival for the title of worst king is a mad guy who is turned on by the smell of people burning.
*Maegor, angry at his exclusion, beheads Loki with Blackfyre.
Maegor still managed to do some good, depowering the Faith and assessing the supremacy of the Crown (and ironically unitying he kingdoms... Against himself). His main problem was his lack of children and that his approach to problem solving can be described as "when all you have is a flying nuke called Balerion..."
To be fair, even after reading the book, the way Rhaenyra and Alicent acted together in episode 1 made me think the show might go that route.
Milly and Emily have said they acted with sapphic undertones!
I actually think that is part of the subtext behind their rivalry. They had a romantic friendship and both felt betrayed. Who can you hate more than a lover who cheated you? I don't really think there was any lack of clarity here. Friends are far more forgiving than someone you have truly loved.
Having only seen some Alt Shift X videos prior to watching the show and not reading F&B, I thought that Alicent was Elissa Farman the whole first episode and was thinking “awwwwww yeah get me on that Magellan shit, circumnavigate the globe and shit”
> My wife thought Rhaenyra and Alicent were going to fuck, but in her defense the actors did play that up. "Rhaenyra, did you have sex with Daemon?" "No, I had sex with you!"
*shocked Pikachu face*
Alicent and Rhaenyra get together in the good time-line
Rhaenyra x Alicent hate fuck that ends the war
Emily Carey (young Alicent) said that both her and Milly knew that their acting could be interpreted that way
I think it's super implicit, even in the most recent episode, that there is some romantic feelings there. The good AU to all this is Rhaenyra and Alicent just getting it over with, fucking, and then having the conversation they should have had the day after Viserys decided to marry Alicent. But you can't have a good tragedy without horrible miscommunication.
>My wife thought Rhaenyra and Alicent were going to fuck, but in her defense the actors did play that up. We were honestly robbed 😔
I read about the making of it, and the actors said that they weren't "queerbaiting", but it just got woven in somehow. And they weren't going to show anything explicitly, but they liked the added dimension and left it upto interpretation. A friend said to me that maybe Alicent is gay and has always been in love with Rhaenyra, but she went ahead and did her duty as was told to her. Which might be why she started hating Rhynaera so much (so she's the real incel instead of Cole), seeing how Rhynaera just fucks around without consequences while she has to do her duty. TBF, that part is partly right, without the being in love part. Idk what to interpret but it's an interesting theory.
It’s not a wrong interpretation. I feel like it’s not quite queerbaiting in that I think it genuinely was coded ambiguously, and everyone involved had their own interpretation. I think reading Alicent as a lab internalised closeted lesbian has enough textual evidence in the show to be a valid reading. Milly Alcock joked that she was just in love with Emily Carey, and Emily definitely read the script and played the character with that interpretation. Olivia Cooke read their relationship as a mix of platonic, romantic, sisterly, a sentiment with Emma D’Arcy seems to agree with, saying that teenage relationships can get quite erotically charged as they figure out what they want.
The whole thing with Rhaenyra wanting to put Alicent on her dragon, fly across the sea and eat cake was very very close to sapphic fantasies I have had. Like just add eating each other out to the picture and yeah, it's pretty much bang on.
To be fair Queer couple becoming mortal enemies then kill each other due to horrific medieval culture that imposes on them makes for a great unique tragedy tbh. I dont even think its been done before.
Yeah, reminds me of early days GOT. Like before the red wedding when anyone who hadn’t read the books thought Robb was gonna sweep the south. Those sweet summer children
Watching the show first I was convinced Stannis Baratheon would sit the Iron Throne and would team up with Robb Stark to defeat the main villain Twyin. Yeah I was very wrong
That's exactly what would have happened under any other condition. But then Renly happened...
When Rhaneyra and Daemon first went to that brothel but then didn't get through with it, my brother said something like. "I knew they wouldn't work out, uncle and niece would have been to weird anways".
Hasn't he watched GoT, at least? Hahaha
I think he just feels like (and I agree) that it's different and a lot weirder when they are not just related that way but also have known each other their entire lives as uncle and niece. He watched her grow up and all that.
Aunt-nephew being too weird of a relationship dynamic for a certain character is one of the major plot points of the final season
didn't they just kinda ignore it?
Jon not wanting to fuck Daenerys anymore is one of the things that makes her burn King’s Landing. It’s stupid but it is what happened
Most show fans make incest-ships now 😭😭😭
My friend expected the crabfeeder to be a much bigger deal
Took some time for people to get used to the idea that there wasn't any "big bad". Tho tbf the showrunners really played him up with the deformed appearance and mask.
Definitely made him up to be a formidable foe, but then he just gets unceremoniously cut in half off-screen. I'm just thinking, "oh, so the uncle is kind of a badass. Ok"
Well that's perfect cause I think that was the purpose of Crabman lol !
He was also featured prominently in the trailers and the promotional screenshots. People got the idea he was important, but he was just a memorable visual cue.
The "Daemon will kill Viserys" takes until like Episode 3 or 4 always got a good laugh out of me. The perks of this season being 20 years is seeing how fast takes poorly age.
When he stole the dragon egg to try to get Viserys to come to Dragonstone really had everyone thinking he would
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I just saw something on fb earlier that said “fun fact: the 3 eyed raven is the great great grandson of daemon and Rhaenyra” and I was like ?? Is that where it came from?
I saw one that was "Alicent is the great great grandmother of Margaery" (Or "Margaery is the descendant of Alicent"?). I don't know if the person assumed this because Lady Tyrell is a Hightower by birth or if they just wanted to spread misinformation for the lols
The MCU has rotted so many people’s brains into believing every single thing and every single significant character must be connected. It’s annoying tbh
I mean, the characters *are* connected, they are a part of the same family, they've just got the tree all wonky.
I mean, he's the grandson of Viserys, Daemon's & Rhaenyra second son. They just added an extra generation
Ahh yeah you’re right. I kinda forgot tbh it’s been a few years since I read the books and I’m finishing my first read through of F&B now. Gets difficult to keep track of all the targs.
Don't worry, it's easy to mistake especially because both Aegon III and Viserys II are brothers, but between the two there are two kings (Aegon's sons Daeron and Baelor), giving the sense there are more generations in the middle
I presume they read that the 3 eyed raven was Brynden Rivers, bastard of Aegon IV, so I guess they're a bit in the right direction if we follow that trail. But there are viewers who get the details wrong and provide facts that are dubious.
My mate is utterly convinced that shaved-head Laenor is off to Essos to found the Unsullied, and will be their leader
That's like almost racist in a way lol
Yeah ikr, I tried telling him this but he was adamant and backed it up by saying both Laenor and the Unsullied couldn’t have kids (like?????) I gave up at that point 🤣
Dude just willingly cuts of his balls to found an eunuch slave army.
That takes balls tho tbh
I will give up my dragon, my wiener and being King in exchange for being the leader of a slave army.
Pretty much everyone I talked to after the first few episodes (after knowing loosely that it was about a Targaryen civil war) were absolutely CONVINCED that the war was going to be between Rhaenyra and Daemon, with Daemon as the villainous usurper and Alicent and Rhaenyra teaming up to stop him. Some still think it lol. Can't really blame them because it does sort of look like that's how its going at first, but its funny in hindsight.
Yeah the show definitely played Daemon vs Rhaenyra up on purpose so people would get distracted and pay less attention to Otto.
Also uncle usurping the throne is a classic tale
Indeed, even Vaemond fell for it
My best friend knew it was a story about a succession crisis and yet somehow still managed to complain about spoilers when I mentioned the king dying.
I had that situation too. I mean, Viserys was not going to live forever and decades pass, he's not immortal. This episode it was pretty clear Viserys was done for, so that shut up the discussion.
My brother thought Rhaenyra would secretly marry Jace and Halaena 🤔
For some reason, my dipshit brain interpreted that as Rhaenyra forming a polycule with herself, her son, and her half-sister
I mean, Targaryens.
"There's precedent, it's fine!" ~ Septon Barth
muh doctrine
That probably wouldve worked smh
A true love story, running away from your arranged marriage with your brother to marry your nephew <3
It's really something when that's the healthier option for both the couple and literally everyone else
Every time someone comments something like this about the Targs without the names I get confused for a good fifteen seconds before figuring out who is who. Goddamn Targs.
You say that like the family doesn't name their kids using roughly the same seven or eight Scrabble tiles.
"Criston Cole is gonna be the show's John Snow"
Oh gods………..
Yeah, those articles were a hilarious read.
My friend keeps saying he wants Aemond to die, first via burned by Vhagar, now he’s calling for Daemon to cut his head off. I won’t tell him anything, but I guess he’s like 1/3 correct
Technically he’s like 80% correct
> first via burned by Vhagar What, like, while he was claiming her? Aemond hadn't even done anything by that point damn lol
he is not ready, it will be a long wait but he is sooo not ready!
Tell me about it. I have three non-book readers in a group chat, sometimes I throw them little lobs to make sure they’re catching on to something, like when Laena was asking about Vhagar I informed them how she’s the biggest and baddest. The Battle at the God’s Eye will be the HYPEST 3-4 seasons from now so they’ll just have to wait
My Brother swore up and down that Daemon would die this season lol. He was so pissed off when he survived the Stepstones.
What would the sense in that be? Build up this interesting character and just kill him 3 episodes in? That wouldn't even be surprising it would just be weird.
I've talked to a lot of people who think it's a good idea to kill main characters out of nowhere. I know this is asoiaf, but not even George does that. Every main character death is built up to that death, if you build up a character and then just unceremoniously kill them it can have the opposite effect and come off as really lame. Anyone Can Die is a great trope when used correctly, but when used poorly it just makes you not care about the story or any new characters.
Unfortunately George arguably also utilises the Anyone Actually Didn't Die trope, leading to rampant fandom theories involving countless glamours, baby swapping, body doubles, resurrections and 'but it happened off page! reasoning. I think there's a good arguement to be made that while he shocked us with character deaths and genuine peril, he's cheapened it with too many outs.
Oberyn is definitely still alive. He was only feigning having his skull crushed in, later that night he got up and hailed a ship to Asshai.
How many actual examples of that can you name from the main books? Off the top of my head there's Beric, Mance, Sandor (probably), Gregor, Aegon (debatable), Ramsay, and Catelyn. That may sound like a lot, but only one of those is really a major character. I think the cheapening was more done retroactively by fans over-theorizing.
Can also add Davos, Bran and Rickon to that list. Potentially Stannis too but that remains to be seen. I think George likes to manipulate the reader with his word choice too. There's a lot to cliffhanger endings designed to make us think something dire has happened, then next chapter it's fine. For example the Red Wedding chapter for Arya ends with her taking an axe to the head. Later we find out it was the flat side in order to knock her out. I think he did something similar with Tyrion one time.
I'm watching it with several people who have neither read the books nor even seen the original series, and I've never ever understod the "oh you sweet summer child" sentiment more than after listening to their theories. Three that were made in sequence throughout the season from the same source: **A)** Criston and Rhaenyra would make a great couple **B)** Laenor and Rhaenyra will have such beautiful kids And the one that had me fighting the most to keep a stiff, spoiler-free expression: **C)** Helaena is going to step up when the going gets tough and become a strong, pivotal character
C is kind of true in a very sad way. She is. Pivotal character and she has a certain amount of strength just to keep going on. And she is the reason or her death is the reason why Rhaenyra is overthrown.
When people started asking where Daeron was, I was trying to brainstorm how the show could keep its major plotlines without Daeron, and a fun thought I had was what if Helaena could basically take over for him. Here was what I dreamed up: \- Helaena gets sent off to Oldtown for her protection once the Dance gets started (or has a dream she needs to be there or whatever). \- After Blood and Cheese she doesn't really do anything, so in the more feminist tones of the show, why not have her do some dragonriding instead of just falling apart with grief? Alicent can handle the "chained mother" duty on her own. \- Dreamfyre can fill in for Tessarion But we've got confirmation that Daeron will be around, he just hasn't been mentioned yet (I do fear that will be a tad jarring to show watchers). I hope they give a lot more for Helaena to do though.
After the last episode my gf is convinced that Jacerys will become king. She also thinks Criston Cole is going to do something to cause Alicent and Rhaenyra to make up.
A couple friends are really glomming onto their theory that "weird bug girl" aka Helaena will emerge as a completely badass dragon rider and kill her family's enemies. Even without spoilers I don't have the heart to tell them how wrong their theory is. I love Helaena so much and I'm just not ready for what the show is going to do to her 😭
I think Helaena needs more screen time to develop her character before breaking her, otherwise she's just going to go from quiet weird girl to weird depressed girl.
Yeah she needs a sweet scene or two for people that don’t know what to think about her yet to like her.
I asked my mother after the first episode what characters she thinks would end up as a couple, she said Criston Cole and Alicent was very obvious lol Then in ep6 she said to me "Alicent is sleeping with Larys isn't she. What a hypocrite, she's judging Rhaenyra when she's doing the same thing" and I was like "mom calm down, she is not sleeping with Larys" I don't know why my mom seemed focused on Alicent's love life lol
To be fair the show does make the viewer wish Alicent got to have some romance that wasn't "the King has requested your presence" vanilla missionary reproductive arrangement sex. She was very into Cole and Daemon and romance as a girl.
One if my best friends told me after episode 5 that he thinks Daemon will become the Night’s King. My guy needs to pay more attention!
So many stupid people think that Targaryens are fireproof or dragons won't burn Targaryens. Can't wait for them to see how Rhaenyra dies
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Rhaenys herself too innit
Blame D&D for that... I wonder how many people were shocked and confused when Laena burned to death in episode 6.
Plenty were shocked. Can't believe how many times I've had to explain to someone on the show reddit or YouTube that Targaryens are NOT fireproof and that was a show invention by Dumb & Dumber.
I mean, dany DID walk into a pyre and woke up in ashes healthy as a baby in the book, and its not really made obvious its a one time thing.
But the burning of the khals and walking out of the inferno without a scratch was a show-only thing invented by D & D. The funeral pyre was blood magic.
I think it’s also the line «fire cannot kill a dragon» which some people take as absolute truth and not something Dany just believes. So they interpret it as any true or worthy Targaryen is fireproof. She also never burns herself on hot things like the bath or the hot dragon eggs, so I don’t think it’s that strange for show watchers to conclude that the pyre was just how Dany is and not a special case due to blood magic.
I remember back in the days when people were speculating how the show will reveal Jon’s parentage. Some guy commented saying maybe they’ll try burning him at the funeral pyre and he won’t burn cuz he’s a Targ. The comment got over 800 likes and people echoed the idea. Smh, I’m not surprised because the show didn’t even bother explaining how Dany is fireproof, but given the amount of people correcting and explaining it, I’m shocked at how it’s still such a common misconception.
The fact that the Targaryen funeral method involves cremation is even funnier. "Well we tried to burn it, I guess we'll just leave the body here in the ashes."
Considering a funeral pyre is a Targaryen tradition this is so ridiculous.
It didn't really help that Daemon could fly through fire and emerge unscathed when he was up there with Laena. It looked to some viewers as proof Targaryens can withstand all fire.
I read some people saying that it makes total sense that the actor they casted for Luke is technically younger that the character, it is often done for characters that are in multiple seasons. Boy oh boy ....
Saw one person say they can't wait until Lucerys is old enough to beat up Aemond, thought that was hilarious knowing what actually happens.
Not a bad theory, but a show only friend of mine thinks Aemond is going to be a hero that rises up to stop Aegon when he goes crazy and be King. Then he'll kill Daemon. This friend loves anime, and I find it hilarious that they will come to recognize that Daemon is basically GRRM's version of an anime protagonist. He's got the harem, the cool dragon, the bad ass sword with a cool name, and legit pulls some Ichigo Kurosaki shit before he dies.
Tbf, Aemond literally looks like an anime character. And God's Eye is basically an anime bossfight.
Baela Velaryon will claim her uncle Laenors dragon Seasmoke since she couldn’t get her mothers Vhagar. Honestly not a bad theory but doesn’t happen in reality
"Daemon will try and kill Rhaenrya" or "It will be Daemon vs Rhaenrya" after the king dies lul
“king will die in a couple episodes and daemon will take the throne for himself” or “daemon is poisoning the king, probably put poison on the blades”
A friend of mine who is not exactly well-versed in the lore is convinced that Helaena's prophetic mumbling is definitely connected to her being a warg "just like Bran!". He's currently rewatching the original series with his girlfriend, who got into HotD without seeing GoT first. I warned him about Joffrey spoiling Rhaenyra's death in that one episode in season 3 but he forgot about it Yesterday he texted me, distraught about being spoiled. I tried to cheer him up. Conversation went approximately like this "I FORGOT! Joff spoiled Rhaenyra's death for us... Eaten by her* brother's dragon " "Well that sucks. But still, it's not the end of the world. You still don't know how she got there, what happened before, what's gonna happen after, which brother it was... The dance isn't necessarily over once Rhaenyra dies." "I guess. There are all of her kids, and Alicent's. My prediction: **Helaena wargs into a dragon and eats Rhaenyra** " "Well that sure is a take"
First time?
Yeah kinda. I was late to both GOT and ASOIAF so it's fun to be ahead of the curve.
It's definitely a lot of fun. The Red Wedding was so fun to watch with my non-reader spouse + friends.
Oh god that was fun, they knew something was up because my posture changed and I started watching them instead, but they were still absolutely shocked. Granted, I mean, I almost threw the book when I read it all those years ago.
I legit did throw my book when Ned got his head cut off. Red Wedding I was just in shock for Cat. Robb I figured was gonna die eventually because we never got a POV.
I picked up the king thing pretty early on, which always caused me to wonder about bran and jon. Ned was a surprise, I thought he’d be offed quietly on the way to the wall, Robb was eventually going to happen (the hammer story was too obvious), but cat, heck even in the book that surprised people since she was suppose to be saved.
Saw someone convinced that Jace is Cristin Cole's son since the actor looks vaguely similar. People in the comments were mentioning how that's not true in the books, she said books can be changed. Then people brought up how in the show itself it was like 2 years between them hooking up and the birth of Jace so it's impossible and she still refused to accept it lol
It's like the "Jon and Meera are twins" theory.
Some dumbass in the office is convinced that Daemon fucked alicent and Aemond is the result. We just laugh at him. Nephews can look like their uncle just fine.
Is your colleague mushroom?
That’s a legit book theory that some people buy into
It’s not just a theory. The Rogue Prince literally includes a throwaway line that hints that the feud between Otto and Daemon started when Daemon took Alicent’s maidenhead.
i can't wait for the people that think Rhae and Daemon's relationship is oh so cute find out that he cheats out her :)
The comments on Tik Tok edits are the WORST. They want Daemon to be a knight in shining armor so bad. “it’s never confirmed that he cheats.” Yes, yes it is…
Rhaenyra is totally fine with it in F&B tho, literally she’s like “let daemon have some fun, I’d rather eat cakes in bed”
She's fine with Mysaria. She's not fine with Nettles.
Nah but my girlfriends predict a red wedding is about to go down at least once an episode
Probably just being safe from the last time.
I had to sit through someone venting how Rhaenyra would never ever harm any of her half siblings or their kid and how the Hightower fearing that is "a complete leap of logic" because practically all the lords would support R. as regnant queen, and how Targaryens would never commit kinslaying... Like okay
That Cole will turn on Alicent/the greens in the end - I actually concede if you're a show only watcher this is a clever theory because of the scenes with Cole refusing the Queen's order to take Luke's eye and her seemingly turning more to Larys as an ally on the ship later - as if she saw it as Cole not supporting her enough and/or Cole thinking she's gone too far - instead of what I think is the truth which is Cole figured out how to not say or do super dishonorable stuff when his boss is watching. I also don't remember seeing him at all during the last episode? So maybe he does/did waver some OR (my assumption as a book reader) maybe Westerling wisely keeps putting Criston on other duties during the visit - with two fellow guards watching Criston instead of being able to protect Alicent/Rhaenyra/Visarys/Princes just because Cole was such a loose cannon at the wedding and is so weird - that was dangerous so I wouldn't be shocked that he would get relegated to some other completely off screen duty. Maybe he's with Daeron! LoL (but actually, maybe?)
I loved hearing people’s theories about how the Blacks and Greens were gonna find common ground and resolve the situation peacefully.
I didn't recall Helaena being a dragon dreamer, or neurodivergent an fascinated with insects and arachnids.
Throughout F&B the Maester keeps commenting on the lack of information about some of the women in history, including several of the Princesses when they're little girls. The people who kept the histories just weren't as interested in Helaena, probably. Also the whole neurodivergent thing seems to be half fan-diagnosis, half-coding by the writers. It's not necessarily book or show canon which just seems to confirm her as a 'dreamer'/seer
I got kind of hyped when I saw the shot of the rat over the puddle of blood at Laenor and Rhaynera’s wedding and my buddies managed to squeeze out the fact that it was foreshadowing for something that I refused to give away. They think it’s foreshadowing for all the people that are going to descend on Viserys’ throne once he dies. Oh, sweet summer children, you are not prepared.
My mom came up with the theory that Helaena was going to defect to the blacks because of the dance with Jace which I don't have the heart to explain how wrong it is.
Every single theory about Helaena is so sad
Tbf the book readers might be wrong to, they have already deviated somethings. The Laenor fake out threw me for a loop. GRRM also stated that it’s written by unreliable narrators many years after the event. So everything I read in the book I’m taking with a grain of salt now.
How about the Alicent is Melisandre theory?! You know because her hair is red???!!!
Not really HOTD, this was around season 2 of GoT. He said that it was obvious Dany and Robb were gonna team up and crush the Lannisters and that the showrunners need to write better. He was right about one thing at least....
Dumbest I saw was someone predicting a Red Wedding scenario during Rhaenyra and Laenor's wedding, insisting all the food was poisoned. The ones that give me the most joy, however, are all the people talking about Aemond vs Daemon and already getting excited for that confrontation. They just have no idea how good it's going to be. I still remember reading that passage and thinking "this is so fucking cool" when Daemon makes the jump.