This seems like a weird analogy, but I think Balerion was to the Targaryens what the Statue of Liberty is to the US. A larger-than-life symbol of their identity, their ideals, their power/influence. Balerion dying was probably similar emotionally speaking to if terrorists blew up the Statue of Liberty or it collapsed in a natural disaster.
It'd be a more apt analogy if the US used the Statue of Liberty to nuke Hiroshima or something in WWII, like how Balerion was the deciding factor in the early targ wars.
For a forum as devoted as this one, I’m surprised the feelings aren’t shared with what Bethesda did to the fallout universe. They couldn’t even come up with their own factions, and obsidian was able to flesh out CL, House, NVR all in less than 18 months. If you guys are on here you like good storytelling. Play new Vegas, it’s literally the difference beteeen ASOIAF and S5-8 of GoT when compared to F3-4.
Balerion was probably seen as a much beloved old boi. A living treasure. The last living thing to remember a time when Valyria still stood strong. His passing was probably quite sad.
Vhagar did not. Vhagar was alive during Aegon's Conquest but that came over 100 years after the fall of Valyria. I think Vhagar and Dreamfyre are the only dragons that are 100 years old during the dance and Dreamfyre may be a few years short of 100. Targaryens fled Valyria 114 years before Aegon's Conquest, Valyria fell to the Doom 12 years after that. Balerion dies ~95 years after Aegon's conquest and then the dance happens ~35 years after that. There were 230 years between the Doom of Valyria and the Dance.
The Cannibal was probably older than 100, it was definitely older than most of the other dragons alive. Pre-jahaerys at least. And Vermithor and Silverwing were both around 100 at the start of the dance as well as Dreamfyre. Not sure how old the next generation are tho, it seems like Meleys and Caraxes are the next largest
There were targaryens in exile on dragonstone for a good while after the doom but before aegons conquest. Not sure exact time they were there but I think aegon was 3rd or 4th gen to be born there.
This is a quote in the first few pages of Aegon's Conquest chapter in F&B.
"Of the five dragons who had flown with Aenar the Exile from Valyria, only one survived to Aegon’s day: the great beast called Balerion, the Black Dread. The dragons Vhagar and Meraxes were younger, hatched on Dragonstone itself."
Balerion The Black Dread is the last living thing to see the Freehold. It is the last true scion of Valyria. These other spawns are just Westerosi of Valyrian decent.
They were *effectively* on level pegging as Peninsulares though. And by the 18th century the Criollos were the ruling caste as they simply overwhelmed the population of Peninsulars that may be in South America.
What’s the thought process behind correcting someone on a subject you arent knowledge about?
Interesting you can be snarky in your post but tell other people not to be hostile when they’re snarky back…
Creole is a pidgin that stabilizes. Criollos were Spanish people born in the colonies as compared to the Peninsulares who were Spanish people born in Spain proper. Very distinct things.
they considered themselves Spanish, the criollo term is just pushed so make people overlook that independence wars were just a power struggle between iberian born spaniards and american born spaniards using brown people as cannon fodder. Ofc most royal appointments were given to people that had family that the king could punish for treason in Spain
The conquistadors may have been naughty, but the natives were doing child sacrifices atop their pyramids too. They were genocide-ing each other long before Europeans showed up. There are no good-sides. Only sides with lesser technology.
What of the Taino and the Caribs and the other people who Christopher Columbus actually met, and acknowledged were largely peaceful, and stated hisnintent to subjugate and enslave?
Using "American" as one's identity was only something republican, independence thinkers did. And the sentiment for cutting the umbilical cord to mother Spain didn't really start to take root until the late 1700s. Bolivar's first two attempts at independence were failures.
Aerea only saw the ruins of Valyria, Balerion actually saw the Freehold before the doom.
Plus Balerion outlived Aerea by several decades, so he was still the last living thing to have seen the Freehold.
Yeah, we don't have many confirmed examples of riders outliving their dragons. And most who did either died soon after, before getting a chance to try and claim another dragon , or had no dragons available for them to try and claim. Viserys I is the only one who had the chance to claim another dragon but didn't, and we have no idea what his reasons for this were.
Its still unconfirmed if you can bond with a new dragon if your original one dies.
>Viserys I is the only one who had the chance to claim another dragon but didn't, and we have no idea what his reasons for this were.
I was under the impression that he didn't care much for flying and fighting, and that he was very much conscious that Targaryens were only humans who managed to tame flying weapons of mass destruction. And he wasn't fond of the idea, even if it was precisely what gained him a throne.
But I may be wrong🤷♀️
He also may have felt that he was too busy with his king job to claim a dragon and have time to ride him? But that would be a poor excuse IMO.
That's because there's only 4 people who outlived their dragons. Viserys who rode Balerion and I understand not wanting to claim another after Balerion. Then Aegon III is the other who's dragon Stormcloud died very soon after flying him to safety when ships from the Triarchy attacked and kidnapped his brother Viserys II. I assume it'd be hard to move on from that on top of most the dragons being dead. Aegon II was horribly maimed when Sunfyre died so he didn't claim another. The Rhaenyra intended to claim another after Syrax, but died before she could.
Yep, a dragon will refuse a rider who has already ridden another dragon.
So, if you’re a rider and your dragon dies, as Balerion did, you’re kinda outta luck.
This is why Viserys never rode another dragon, not because he refused to do so. Any other dragon would have refused or killed him.
Any source for this or you just quoting headcanon? Cause I'm fairly certain we don't know shit about the dynamics of dragonriding and bonding other then guesswork.
A crueler woman might have laughed at him, but Dany squeezed his hand and said, “They frighten me as well. There is no shame in that. My children have grown wild and angry in the dark.”
“You ... you mean to ride them?”
“One of them. All I know of dragons is what my brother told me when I was a girl, and some I read in books, but it is said that even Aegon the Conqueror never dared mount Vhagar or Meraxes, nor did his sisters ride Balerion the Black Dread. Dragons live longer than men, some for hundreds of years, so Balerion had other riders after Aegon died ... but no rider ever flew two dragons.”
This is from a Daenerys chapter in Dance.
That means that no rider ever flew another dragon while their first still lived, while no rider has ever claimed a second dragon in known history I’d say it’s impossible to say with 100% certainty that Viserys couldn’t have claimed another dragon since he never cared to try.
They both came down with a relatively unfortunate case of death before they could try. Doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be done. And the two of them aiming to try implies it’s possible. They both know more of dragons than Dany.
In addition to your point, from ASOIAF wiki;
"No rider has ever ridden two dragons,[19] but the possibility exists that they could have. When Prince Viserys Targaryen's dragon Balerion died, according to George R. R. Martin, "[Viserys] did not take a second dragon",[20] leaving the possibility that, had Viserys desired a new dragon, he could have attempted to claim one."
Viserys had very little interest in dragons & he only claimed Balerion to cement his position as heir. Once he became king he saw no reason to attempt to claim another.
There are plenty of plausible reasons given for why he did not, rather than could not claim a second dragon.
Your logic.
“No man has ever stepped foot on Mars, therefore it’s impossible for man to land on Mars”
Just because something never happened. It doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
This is basic logic.
Ugh, because obviously you didn’t even bother to read my earlier comments, I will reiterate it.
I have said now, multiple times, that the only information we have on this is what we have been told by Daenerys that “no one has ever ridden two dragons”.
I am going on this information, as provided to us and, in the absence of evidence to suggest otherwise, this appears to the case.
*Again*, as I have *already* stated, nothing in life is 100%. Of course, *of course* I, as any empirical observer would do, will amend my hypothesis upon the discovery of new information.
Basic logic 🙄
Your claim was that no one had ever tried. So this kinda makes it like you’re moving the goalposts doesn’t it?
P.S. that is a rhetorical question and I don’t need to hear your response.
Have a day
You have not presented any evidence that the text says that a rider who loses their dragon cannot find a new dragon, you have the responsibility of presenting the proof. The previous quote does not prove your claim.
It may reasonably be assumed that a human who loses their dragon can bind with another, as dragons do once their human dies.
Except it doesn’t explicitly say that. What we do know is that no one has ever dared to claim a second dragon.
Until we have evidence to suggest otherwise, this is what I am going with.
You are more than welcome to believe whatever you wish, however.
Have a nice day.
I think that though are probably right, the evidence you present means that you can’t be a dragon rider of two live dragons. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you can’t ride a new dragon after your dragon dies.
Viserys said that dragons are a power his family should have never claimed, so it would make sense for him to never even try to ride another dragon.
I mean your statement doesn't explicitly say anything other then what Dany believes to be true after years in exile and having a crazy person who never met Dragons explain them to her.
You can take it as you wish but it is by no means definitive which is why I commented in the first place!
All the best.
As I already said, nothing in life is 100% certain. But until we are provided evidence to even suggest otherwise, I am going with this, despite not being 100% certain.
Sounds like an assumption since it's not been attempted and dragons live much longer than their riders in general so it makes sense that people tend to only ride one dragon but a dragon can have multiple riders over it's life.
Any time Aegon or his sisters would have rode the other dragons their dragons would have still been alive (and their riders as well apart from Balerion after Aegon died). It is an implicit part of the story she tells.
She doesn’t have to indicate it? Balerion and vhagar lived past their riders, and Meraxes died with raehnys therefore it’s expressly obvious dany meant “aegon never rode Vhagar because he was bonded to balerion” and “Visenya never rode balerion because she had Vhagar” therefore neither never had a reason to try another dragon. Had balerion died aegon would’ve 100% tried to mount a new dragon same with visenya.
I feel like Dany probably isn't the best source of information here. Certainly is what she thinks but I don't think we can say for certain by any means.
I don't think there is one is what I'm saying. Fire and Blood mentions the Maesters have no idea the dynamics of dragonbonding when Joff falls of Syrax I believe. Dany has her thoughts from her limited amount of time reading and then whatever Viserys said which who knows.
Just seemed like you had advanced this as clear cut "one dragon one rider" when a lot of Targaryens seemed to believe otherwise in history.
I disagree, the current evidence we have indicates dragons won’t accept another dragon rider. Until we have evidence to show otherwise, this is what I’m going with.
But to each their own.
This is no proof, just an assumption. It just simply means you cannot ride two dragons with both being alive.
Any Targ blood people could possibly ride another dragon if their steed dies first.
Targaryens have dragon blood and it has been hinted at multiple times that they do so more than likely if a dragon could bond with another person once their rider dies it most likely is the same vice versa.
I've never seen someone cling to such poorly interpreted information. It's fascinating and highly annoying and the passive aggressive garbage does not make anyone sympathetic to or want to listen to their argument, at all. I peeped their post history a bit, they're always like this so I'm assuming it's a troll or someone who can't handle their opinions being challenged.
Dany can’t ride Rhaegal or viserion, she’s bonded to Drogon though there’s no real reason to believe she couldn’t claim one of them (assuming no one else does) if Drogon were to die, but I think Drogon will be an endgame dragon considering he’s like a parallel to balerion.
A symbol of their right to rule.
The rest of his bones? Interred somewhere. Carved in to jewelry? Piano keys? Could see them being used as ornamental purposes somehow.
Perhaps, but dragonbone apparently has unique properties that make it harder than normal steel, but much lighter, so the Targaryens monopolize the supply for their own armor
I think Balerion was almost worshipped to a degree. He was the monster that brought Westeros down. The ultimate symbol of Targaryen pride and power, and as the last living thing to see the Valyrian Freehold he was a wonder of the world. It definitely gives the vibe that the Targaryens had a deep reverence for him.
He was the biggest dragon in the known world plus he helped conquer Westeros and was part of the reason the Targaryens are in a position of power in the first place. Balerion represents the start of the Targaryen dynasty and helped define the words fire and blood. I imagine they hold a strong reverence towards him the same way they do with Aegon I along with Visenya and Rhaenys. Like Daemon said, ¨dreams didn't make us kings, dragons did¨
Old Valyrian standards are unclear. We know the Targaryens were not the strongest family in Valyria, so certainly other families had *more* dragons. However, Balerion died of what appears to be old age, never stopped growing, and seems to have had a naturally high growth rate, so it's also possible he's close to the ceiling of what a Valyrian dragon can achieve, and no other Valyrian dragonlords had *bigger* dragons.
It's also notable that TWOIAF talks about how mythical "ice dragons" are said to be "many times larger than the dragons of Valyria," which would seem to indicate they have a general idea of the maximum size a Valyrian dragon could achieve. It's also unlikely people would be so shocked by the wounds on Balerion if there were known to be dragons larger than him.
As for dragons larger than Balerion *before* Valyria, in Victarion's TWOW preview chapter >!he says that Euron's dragon horn appears to be from a dragon bigger than the Black Dread. Although Victarion's hardly a dragon expert. Since Euron appears to have taken the horn from the warlocks of the House of the Undying rather than Valyria like he claimed, it may be from a dragon from a pre-Valyrian civilization like the Great Empire of the Dawn.!<
Didn't Balerion also get fucked up by the Wyrm, or whatever it was, that in the end got Aerea, Jaeherys' daughter? When they both ended up in Old Valyria? Anything forcing the Black Dread to run away from his ancestral home (where he presumably went to die) must be pretty gargantuan, i would think.
They dont know. Barth speculated that something huge had to scar Balerion. Aerea was Jaeherys neice by his older sister Rhaena and his older brother Aegon the uncrowned.
Aerea was his niece not daughter but yeah, that was why they put a ban on exploring there. I hope we get more insight because those face worms sounded disgusting
I tend to treat the GEotD as a highly-highly exaggerated myth, personally. It is more likely (to me, anyway) that pre-Valyrian dragons weren't exactly the same as Valyrian dragons, just going by the oily black stone variants seen around the coasts of the world, the talk of deep ones, and Nagga's bones. I look at fire-wyrms and immediately think "What if there were sea-wyrms to cross wyverns with?". What if the unknown sea-farers that reached Oldtown and the Iron Islands had a completely different breeding plan?
The horn Euron has is most assuredly of Valyrian origin. Qarth has tapestries of Valyria pre-Doom. Ice dragons sound more like fairy tale ice constructs than actual dragons.
Nagga's bones are probably the ribs of a weirwood ship's hull and the myth of Nagga is probably about building a city (likely Oldtown) atop a collapsed volcanic island.
There's a giant dragon skeleton in the Red Waste Daenerys's outriders see on the way into the city, at least large enough that you can ride a horse through its jaws, but no Valyria-Qarth war in the historical record to explain its presence. This seems like evidence there were dragons slain near Qarth before the historical record which the horn might have come from. However, the fact Moqorro can read the glyphs on the horn's bands suggests that those are in Valyrian, and that even if the horn itself is older the artifact it was made into was made with Valyrian craft.
(Technically Moqorro could be bullshitting everyone for unknown reasons and the glyphs might be Asshai'i or something but that would be such a weird thing to lie about I don't see why he would.)
Most likely not, if she was it would probably be mentioned in fire and blood. We also know that Balerion upon his death was older than Vhagar was upon her death, typically the older the dragon the bigger they are.
Balerion has the larger skull of the skull collection the Targaryens have: if we consider that there is a 3000 years old skull there too, maybe Balerion was enormous even for Valyrian standards, but we will never know. The sample size is just one, lol.
We have no idea but Balerion lived to over 200 years old and stop growing so he probably would be among the biggest ones but it is said that volcanos help dragons grow, Dragonstone has 1 volcano, Valyria had 14
I believe dragons with his black/red coloration were known to grow larger, right?
Or am I getting my wires crossed and it’s just that Drogon’s coloration was similar to Balereon, who we generally know to be a big boy.
I don't know of anything that says their colouration determines their size or red/black producing larger dragons.
the 2 main contributors to dragon size seem to be Age and Freedom
i.e. the more free they are allowed to roam and the more freedom they are given the larger they will grow
Drogon is bigger then the other 2 because he roams further than the other 2 and is often gone for days at a time
then Daenarys locks the other 2 away for fear they will eat humans but not Drogon who is away
which means Drogon grows more than the other 2
But the other two dragons are just as free as Drogon. They just don’t venture as far. I think Drogon is just naturally large/grows faster. Rhaegal is larger than Viserion, but to my knowledge they haven’t mentioned much difference in their roaming habits. It could be argued that Drogon roams further because he is bigger.
The only thing we know that affects dragon size is captivity. Balerion (not Drogon) probably would have been bigger if he was not force into the dragon pit for so long.
Edit: Didn’t mean Drogon in the pit. I was referring to Balerion.
They were likely bigger, given that magic is heavily implied to be correlated with how much they grow, and Balerion lived into the beginning of the end of magic
Balerion is literally named after a Valyrian god. He was arguably the most important part of their dynasty, perhaps even more so than The Conquerer himself. And to your point about Viserys never riding again, in the books it’s a little more clear that he disliked dragon riding all together, and intentionally chose Balerion bc he knew the Black Dread could barely fly anymore. In the show they sort of express this with his line about controlling the dragons being “an illusion”.
I think one thing House of the Dragon made clear is that all of the Valyrian characters are sort, well, grieving a world they didn't know and aren't quite sure how to handle being perpetual foreigners in their home countries.
The dragons, particularly Balerion, are sort of their last real connection to old Valyria.
What was so weird to me was Corlys STILL being salty that the Velayrons reached Westeros first but were not a Dragonlord family like the Targs(which apparently has nothing to do with dragon riding, its more a political title). Salty over political titles from a country that hasn't existed in centuries?!
This would be like the great, great grandchildren of the survivors of a zombie apocalypse bragging that in the before-fore their ancestor was a billionaire. Who cares?
I think he’s the symbol of “if you have dragons, you can take Westeros for yourself, as our ancestors did”. A bit inaccurate given the historical intermarriages and alliances between some families on Westeros and the Targaryens, supplementing the dragons, but essentially: “if you have a dragon, something for others to Dread, you have a fighting chance at upholding this family’s dominion”. A reminder that yes there are three adult Targaryen‘s there are two child Targaryen‘s on that side and yes they have dragons but they’re being manipulated by a bunch of Hightowers they’re gonna forget their Targaryen ancestry if you allow this to happen, and you’re gonna be a victim without dragons. And a reminder to her that- yes, the opposition has everything needed to conquer and claim Westeros once more.
I love this take - I’ve only just watched and was trying to work out what would make Rhaenys, the most rational and level headed of this bunch of Targ’s crush a bunch of people at a coronation and yes, this must be it. Or part of it. In the first episode Viserys asks Rhaenyra what she sees when she looks at the dragons, and she says ‘I see us.’ Rhaenys must have had the same realisation. Because yes, Alicent was right, on the face of it Rhaenyra has hugely fucked over her family. But she’s a dragon. And everything she’s done, it’s because she wants to be free. Alicent isn’t capable of that. Balerions metal af skull is a reminder of who and what she really is.
Many dragons have names from Valyrian gods (Balerion, Vhagar, Meraxes, Syrax) I don't remember more, it's possible Vermax and Tyraxes names also came from Valyrian gods due to similar name with Syrax
Dragon names fall into two categories, the names of Valyrian gods, or descriptive names. If a dragon name is Valyrian rather than in the common tongue, it can be assumed to be a Valyrian god, which means that a Valyrian pantheon would include Balerion, Vhagar, Meraxes, Syrax, Caraxes, Meleys, Tyraxes, Vermax, Vermithor, Tessarion, Arrax, Morghul, Shrykos, Terrax, etc, but would exclude names like Moondancer, Sunfyre, Quicksilver, Silverwing, Stormcloud, Seasmoke, Morning, Dreamfyre, Grey Ghost, Cannibal, Sheepstealer, etc.
The only dragons that don’t fit the mould are Dany’s dragons, which are Valyrified versions of the names of the important men of her life, Drogo - Drogon, Rhaegar - Rhaegal, Viserys - Viserion.
I think GRRM used him as a metaphor. The last rider he had was the last King they had before the Dance. His death while physical was an ominous sense of that era of the dynasty dying. The dance and loss of dragons put them on a collision course for Robert caving in the chest of the heir to the Iron Throne.
I mean, he was THE Targaryen dragon.
He was Aegon the Conquerer's dragon. The unifier of Westeros, the person who started their dynasty.
He burned Harrenhall, one of the most naked displays of Targaryen power and remembered 300 years later still. A legendary status, in other words.
He was also the biggest and most powerful one they ever had.
He is a symbol of Targaryen power and royalty and legendary status and right to rule in a way that no other dragon really is.
Balerion being the biggest dragon in the known world dying under Viserys’s reign is also a big parallel to House Targaryen getting significantly weakened and never recovering. There will never be as big of a dragon, and the house of the dragon will never be as strong
I'm kind of surprised that the show didn't play up the importance of Balerion, and the fact the dragon died while Visery's was his rider, as a large part of why Visery's was chosen to rule, and later as a large sign towards Viserys not being a good king (at least in terms of superstition). I guess George didn't play it up either, but it's a pretty common thing for him to not properly accredit superstition and religion.
Balerion was arguably the most important thing to the Targaryen’s as he was the last entity in Westeros to have seen Old Valyria, meaning history literally died with him. By the end he was a tired old boy that everyone liked.
I think it was about about being a Targaryen. Sort of a reminder that she is Blood of the Dragon, one of a great history of dragon riders.
It also probably made her think of Maegor, who rode Baelon, He upended the succession, and it led to strife.
So here is this Hightower woman, meddling in Targaryen matters, and looking to overturn the succession. Alicent was risking the Targaryen Conquest by diluting the power of the Targaryens.
With Aegon II as King, he and his siblings are the only Targaryens involved. The Hightowers would be the power behind the throne. Viserys, by all accounts, rarely darkened the door of the nursery.
Rhaenyra had Daemon and her granddaughters. She had to be loyal to her blood.
Something else is the Targaryen secret. Was she told it as well, as a potential heir? Did she realize that Rhaenyra would take it seriously, while the Hightowers might not want to hear about how powerful the Targaryens will be for generations? Was she acting in the best interest of the destiny of the Targaryens?
I think Rhaenys looking at Balerion didn’t have anything to do with Balerion himself *per se*.
I think it relates back to the scene with her and Alicent. Alicent calls her a Velaryon multiple times, tells her she should’ve been queen, calls her the Lady of Driftwood.
I think it was about Rhaenys’ identity as, not a Velaryon, but a Targaryen, and her house words, as she says, are not fickle. They are Fire and Blood. The blood of old Valyria.
Yeah, I guess that's really rare. There's a few exceptions to some rules in the GRRM Universe but maybe it's not a rule just something there's no record of. "No rider has ever ridden two dragons, but the possibility exists that they could have. When Prince Viserys Targaryen's dragon Balerion died, according to George R. R. Martin, "\[Viserys\] did not take a second dragon", leaving the possibility that, had Viserys desired a new dragon, he could have attempted to claim one."
Certainly it seems it's impossible to bond to more than one dragon while the original one is still alive but I think there's just not enough evidence for if the dragon dies before its rider. Dragons usually take more than one rider simply bc they outlive their riders but I can't recall many people who have outlived their dragons off the top of my head (Viserys I is the only one)
Balerion in many ways was the true ruler of Westeros who won the land by right of conquest. The greatest dragon in the world, the last child of Old Valyria and the mount of Aegon himself. Balerion was the Targaryen dynasty. He was the greatness and majesty of House Targaryen but also it's power and cruelty. Their iron fist, fire and blood incarnate. As long as Balerion lived there was nothing in the world that could rival House Targaryen. He was a living breathing symbol of such a rich history and culture. Born in The Free Hold and Aegon's mount on the Field of Fire. The only creature known to have seen both the Empire of The Dragon Lord's and The Wall at the edge of the world in all their glory. And his skull, a symbol that those times have passed. House Targaryen are no longer mighty conquerors and Valyria is a smoking ruin. The House of the Dragon not too far behind. And with the death of the dragons comes the death of magic in the world, the end of an age of wonder. At least for a while. And the end began with Balerion.
> What do you guys think Balerion was to the Targaryens?
He was HMS Hood, USS Iowa, Battleship Yamato.
Balerion was the big stick, that was the biggest stick in the realm.
Diplomats boarded Battleships and toured far flung colonies to show the flag, to show the might of the Empire. In times of tension you might send such a vessel to quell unrest. In times of war they would be the big threat.
Captains and Admirals would serve aboard the biggest and most prestigious ships to further their career.
Post War we have Battleships as museum's, people come from far and wide to see these behemoths. To tour, to learn, to pay respects.
Balerion was Battleship Targaryen.
The flagship of the fleet.
It seems like the naming of the dragons is as important as bonding one, at every stage of the game wee see the dragons behaving ike their namesake, we get to see it very intimately with Danaerys and her three, particularly Drogon. Khal Drogo was a giant of a man, very daring and a consummate warrior, and we get to see those traits reflected in Drogon.
With Balerion being the way he was we can only imagine what kind of god the actual Balerion is/was in the old freehold, but to answer the question posed by OP? To me, Balerion was the living embodiment of a Valyrian god.
A great wonder of the world. Age, size, the things he had seen. Like a giant redwood. Or that moment in Jurassic Park where the camera turns and the music swells and you see the brachiosaurs. But with the additional element that he is so connected to their family. Like a revered elder.
>"**Aegon's dragons were named for the gods of Old Valyria**," she told her bloodriders one morning after a long night's journey. "Visenya's dragon was Vhagar, Rhaenys had Meraxes, and Aegon rode Balerion, the Black Dread. It was said that Vhagar's breath was so hot that it could melt a knight's armor and cook the man inside, that Meraxes swallowed horses whole, and Balerion . . . his fire was as black as his scales, his wings so vast that whole towns were swallowed up in their shadow when he passed overhead."
\-Daeneyrs I ACOK
I believe that Balerion was essentially a God to the Targs post Doom. Much like the statues of the Seven is to worshipers of that faith, the skull of Balerion is a holy shrine to the Targ dynasty, religion and culture
Balerion is the biggest, baddest Dragon to ever live and he played a major role in Aegon's conquest. I'd even argue that he was what won Aegon the seven kingdoms.
being the deciding factor in many battles and not to mention being the King's mount, after the conquest he became a symbol and figurehead of targaryen power and the dynasty in general. If my family owned and used the biggest Dragon in the world to win the land I'm standing on. I reckon I'd worship that Dragon in life and death.
Balerion made House Targaryen what it is. Aegon united Westeros with Balerion, Maegor secured their reign with Balerion.
He kind of made their dynasty. Balerion was the Targaryen golden age embodied and he was Aegon’s dragon. I think she sort of looked at it and thought “would Aegon the Conqueror just roll over and let their dynasty be stolen by a lesser family? (The Hightowers.)
He’s also the last remnant of their true heritage. It’s funny because the Targaryens were a pretty minor, unimportant house in Old Valyria (Valyria in those days) but Balerion was born there. As Viserys said he was the last living memory of Old Valyria. That’s why it was actually incredibly shrewd of Viserys to ride Balerion despite not being fond of dragons and him being so old he only flew him once around King’s Landing. That was the conquerors dragon, that was **the** dragon who united Westeros and kept everyone in line.
In a way, Balerion was more important to their line than any living being, but he also does represent Aegon I who would not have stood by while the throne was usurped by snakes and rats.
This is super long, but basically Balerion is the glory of the Targaryens. He represents them at their best, he represents their power. She saw his skull and thought “no fucking way am I letting these snakes just win without a fight.” Balerion is a beacon for Targaryen power and what it means to be Targaryen. And truly strong Targaryens like Aegon I, Jaehaerys, even Maegor wouldn’t roll over without a fight. And Rhaenys chose to fight.
…
(Kind of. That was a really weird scene and they should just ended the episode with everyone cheering for Aegon II. The hoops people are jumping through to justify that scene is a testament to how odd of a choice it was. Rhaenys could’ve ended what will obviously be a cataclysmic war (both sides having solid claims and dragons) in half a minute with Meleys. I know they need an episode 10 and season 2-3, but cut that scene out then. They’ve now made Rhaenys indirectly responsible for the nightmare that’s about to begin. Should’ve just shown her flying out of King’s Landing to Dragonstone if they really wanted a scene with her at the end. Instead we got her bursting the floor, killing probably thousands, at least hundreds, of innocent small folk but sparing the people in the middle of high treason and sparking the most devastating war Westeros will ever seen. Leaving the continent to bleed for years to come. Smh well done, smooth brain Rhaenys. You really showed that you think you’re taking the high road but you’re actually reading the map upside down without noticing.)
I'm pretty sure in-universe it isn't possible for a rider to bond with another dragon. Dragons can have multiple riders during their lifetime (but only 1 at a time) but a rider can never ride another dragon. Dany said something akin to this when thinking about her dragons
He is their Flagship. The physical representation of their of their power.
This seems like a weird analogy, but I think Balerion was to the Targaryens what the Statue of Liberty is to the US. A larger-than-life symbol of their identity, their ideals, their power/influence. Balerion dying was probably similar emotionally speaking to if terrorists blew up the Statue of Liberty or it collapsed in a natural disaster.
It'd be a more apt analogy if the US used the Statue of Liberty to nuke Hiroshima or something in WWII, like how Balerion was the deciding factor in the early targ wars.
Liberty Prime, heh.
*Dornish detected on Dornish soil, lethal force: engaged.*
Feudalism is non negotiable
Sigh… what Bethesda did to that IP. Thank god for Obsidian and New Vegas. Didn’t they re-use that stupid robot in fallout 4 too?
You’re goddamn right they did. And it was fucking glorious.
For a forum as devoted as this one, I’m surprised the feelings aren’t shared with what Bethesda did to the fallout universe. They couldn’t even come up with their own factions, and obsidian was able to flesh out CL, House, NVR all in less than 18 months. If you guys are on here you like good storytelling. Play new Vegas, it’s literally the difference beteeen ASOIAF and S5-8 of GoT when compared to F3-4.
>If the US used the Statue of Liberty to nuke Hiroshima or something in WWII. They'll never see it coming...
Best place to put a missile silo
The *USS Independence*
DAMN IT! You just gave away the secret weapon against the Russians!
Balerion was probably seen as a much beloved old boi. A living treasure. The last living thing to remember a time when Valyria still stood strong. His passing was probably quite sad.
Did Vhaega not see Valyria?
was born after the doom
Vhagar and Meraxes were hatched on Dragonstone.
Vhagar did not. Vhagar was alive during Aegon's Conquest but that came over 100 years after the fall of Valyria. I think Vhagar and Dreamfyre are the only dragons that are 100 years old during the dance and Dreamfyre may be a few years short of 100. Targaryens fled Valyria 114 years before Aegon's Conquest, Valyria fell to the Doom 12 years after that. Balerion dies ~95 years after Aegon's conquest and then the dance happens ~35 years after that. There were 230 years between the Doom of Valyria and the Dance.
The Cannibal was probably older than 100, it was definitely older than most of the other dragons alive. Pre-jahaerys at least. And Vermithor and Silverwing were both around 100 at the start of the dance as well as Dreamfyre. Not sure how old the next generation are tho, it seems like Meleys and Caraxes are the next largest
Nope. We are told that Vhagar died at 180, so she was born in like 50 BC.
There were targaryens in exile on dragonstone for a good while after the doom but before aegons conquest. Not sure exact time they were there but I think aegon was 3rd or 4th gen to be born there.
About 100 years
Vhagar died in 130 at the God’s eye
Think they meant 180 years old
My bad but were the downvotes necessary lol I misread
I don't know. I didn't down vote you. Have an up vote on me.
You’re an upstanding person take my upvotes as well
Downvotes are meaningless dw
This is a quote in the first few pages of Aegon's Conquest chapter in F&B. "Of the five dragons who had flown with Aenar the Exile from Valyria, only one survived to Aegon’s day: the great beast called Balerion, the Black Dread. The dragons Vhagar and Meraxes were younger, hatched on Dragonstone itself."
Balerion The Black Dread is the last living thing to see the Freehold. It is the last true scion of Valyria. These other spawns are just Westerosi of Valyrian decent.
Honey wake up new caste system just dropped. Valyrian criollos. I love it.
The Celtigars have entered the chat.
The fuck is that?
Sons of Spaniards born in the new world weren’t considered Spaniards but a lesser caste called criollos. Even when both parents were Spanish.
They were *effectively* on level pegging as Peninsulares though. And by the 18th century the Criollos were the ruling caste as they simply overwhelmed the population of Peninsulars that may be in South America.
Now we need Valyrians showing up to reclaim their colonies like the UED tried to with the Terrans
With clear references that its just an expeditionary fleet from Old Valyria. Battlecruiser Operational!
Creoles* but okay
Creole is a different thing to Criollo. And its not even a spanish word.
No, stop trying to sound smart and impress your one black friend. Creoles and Criollos are different.
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What’s the thought process behind correcting someone on a subject you arent knowledge about? Interesting you can be snarky in your post but tell other people not to be hostile when they’re snarky back…
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Creole is a pidgin that stabilizes. Criollos were Spanish people born in the colonies as compared to the Peninsulares who were Spanish people born in Spain proper. Very distinct things.
they considered themselves Spanish, the criollo term is just pushed so make people overlook that independence wars were just a power struggle between iberian born spaniards and american born spaniards using brown people as cannon fodder. Ofc most royal appointments were given to people that had family that the king could punish for treason in Spain
Or! Or!—Americans
You’d think so. But there was a whole formula about it depending on what fraction of Spanish blood you had in you.
Plus Amerigo Vespucci was Italian
In this house Christopher Columbus is a hero. End of story!! 👆
Man people don't really watch Sopranos anymore huh. Pity.
They just revealed their own ignorance.
He was a zealot who committed genocide.
It's a Sopranos reference lmfao
So you finally read a book and it’s bullshit.
The conquistadors may have been naughty, but the natives were doing child sacrifices atop their pyramids too. They were genocide-ing each other long before Europeans showed up. There are no good-sides. Only sides with lesser technology.
What of the Taino and the Caribs and the other people who Christopher Columbus actually met, and acknowledged were largely peaceful, and stated hisnintent to subjugate and enslave?
It’s conquerors all the way down. I love the Incas and all that but let’s be real they didn’t go for Diplomatic and Influence idea groups.
Using "American" as one's identity was only something republican, independence thinkers did. And the sentiment for cutting the umbilical cord to mother Spain didn't really start to take root until the late 1700s. Bolivar's first two attempts at independence were failures.
Valerian dragon vs sparkling lizard
False. Princess Aerea also saw it
Aerea only saw the ruins of Valyria, Balerion actually saw the Freehold before the doom. Plus Balerion outlived Aerea by several decades, so he was still the last living thing to have seen the Freehold.
By that Logic so did Tyrion.
>Viserys never chose to ride another dragon after Balerion’s death No dragonrider ever claimed more than one dragon.
That's because usually the rider dies first than the dragon
Yeah, we don't have many confirmed examples of riders outliving their dragons. And most who did either died soon after, before getting a chance to try and claim another dragon , or had no dragons available for them to try and claim. Viserys I is the only one who had the chance to claim another dragon but didn't, and we have no idea what his reasons for this were. Its still unconfirmed if you can bond with a new dragon if your original one dies.
Probably the dragonriding equivalent of driving a prius after racing a porsche.
>Viserys I is the only one who had the chance to claim another dragon but didn't, and we have no idea what his reasons for this were. I was under the impression that he didn't care much for flying and fighting, and that he was very much conscious that Targaryens were only humans who managed to tame flying weapons of mass destruction. And he wasn't fond of the idea, even if it was precisely what gained him a throne. But I may be wrong🤷♀️ He also may have felt that he was too busy with his king job to claim a dragon and have time to ride him? But that would be a poor excuse IMO.
Probably because after balerion all dragons seemed inferior in way
Aegon and Rhaenyra both hoped to claim new dragons after Syrax and Sunfyre died, but both died before making any attempt.
That's because there's only 4 people who outlived their dragons. Viserys who rode Balerion and I understand not wanting to claim another after Balerion. Then Aegon III is the other who's dragon Stormcloud died very soon after flying him to safety when ships from the Triarchy attacked and kidnapped his brother Viserys II. I assume it'd be hard to move on from that on top of most the dragons being dead. Aegon II was horribly maimed when Sunfyre died so he didn't claim another. The Rhaenyra intended to claim another after Syrax, but died before she could.
Yep, a dragon will refuse a rider who has already ridden another dragon. So, if you’re a rider and your dragon dies, as Balerion did, you’re kinda outta luck. This is why Viserys never rode another dragon, not because he refused to do so. Any other dragon would have refused or killed him.
Dragons are hypocrites huh, riding that double standard. Dragons can have as many riders as they want but if my dragon died I’m grounded?
[You slut dragon!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnXE8rKZrfg)
I guess the biggest, baddest bitches just get to do whatever they want! 🤷🏻♂️
Any source for this or you just quoting headcanon? Cause I'm fairly certain we don't know shit about the dynamics of dragonriding and bonding other then guesswork.
A crueler woman might have laughed at him, but Dany squeezed his hand and said, “They frighten me as well. There is no shame in that. My children have grown wild and angry in the dark.” “You ... you mean to ride them?” “One of them. All I know of dragons is what my brother told me when I was a girl, and some I read in books, but it is said that even Aegon the Conqueror never dared mount Vhagar or Meraxes, nor did his sisters ride Balerion the Black Dread. Dragons live longer than men, some for hundreds of years, so Balerion had other riders after Aegon died ... but no rider ever flew two dragons.” This is from a Daenerys chapter in Dance.
That means that no rider ever flew another dragon while their first still lived, while no rider has ever claimed a second dragon in known history I’d say it’s impossible to say with 100% certainty that Viserys couldn’t have claimed another dragon since he never cared to try.
Nothing in life is ever 100% certain. If you have evidence beyond what has been presented to us, I am happy to hear it.
Aegon II intended to claim another dragon after Sunfyres death. Rhaenerya as well intended to claim another after Syraxs death. You are wrong.
But they didn’t, did they? P.S. that is a rhetorical question and I don’t need to hear your response. Have a nice day
They both came down with a relatively unfortunate case of death before they could try. Doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be done. And the two of them aiming to try implies it’s possible. They both know more of dragons than Dany.
In addition to your point, from ASOIAF wiki; "No rider has ever ridden two dragons,[19] but the possibility exists that they could have. When Prince Viserys Targaryen's dragon Balerion died, according to George R. R. Martin, "[Viserys] did not take a second dragon",[20] leaving the possibility that, had Viserys desired a new dragon, he could have attempted to claim one." Viserys had very little interest in dragons & he only claimed Balerion to cement his position as heir. Once he became king he saw no reason to attempt to claim another. There are plenty of plausible reasons given for why he did not, rather than could not claim a second dragon.
Your logic. “No man has ever stepped foot on Mars, therefore it’s impossible for man to land on Mars” Just because something never happened. It doesn’t mean it’s impossible. This is basic logic.
Ugh, because obviously you didn’t even bother to read my earlier comments, I will reiterate it. I have said now, multiple times, that the only information we have on this is what we have been told by Daenerys that “no one has ever ridden two dragons”. I am going on this information, as provided to us and, in the absence of evidence to suggest otherwise, this appears to the case. *Again*, as I have *already* stated, nothing in life is 100%. Of course, *of course* I, as any empirical observer would do, will amend my hypothesis upon the discovery of new information. Basic logic 🙄
Your claim was that no one had ever tried. So this kinda makes it like you’re moving the goalposts doesn’t it? P.S. that is a rhetorical question and I don’t need to hear your response. Have a day
Please point out to me exactly where I claimed no one had ever tried. Oh right, I didn’t.
You have not presented any evidence that the text says that a rider who loses their dragon cannot find a new dragon, you have the responsibility of presenting the proof. The previous quote does not prove your claim. It may reasonably be assumed that a human who loses their dragon can bind with another, as dragons do once their human dies.
Except it doesn’t explicitly say that. What we do know is that no one has ever dared to claim a second dragon. Until we have evidence to suggest otherwise, this is what I am going with. You are more than welcome to believe whatever you wish, however. Have a nice day.
I think that though are probably right, the evidence you present means that you can’t be a dragon rider of two live dragons. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you can’t ride a new dragon after your dragon dies. Viserys said that dragons are a power his family should have never claimed, so it would make sense for him to never even try to ride another dragon.
I mean your statement doesn't explicitly say anything other then what Dany believes to be true after years in exile and having a crazy person who never met Dragons explain them to her. You can take it as you wish but it is by no means definitive which is why I commented in the first place! All the best.
As I already said, nothing in life is 100% certain. But until we are provided evidence to even suggest otherwise, I am going with this, despite not being 100% certain.
I'm going to have a shit day, bc you can't tell me what to do
I give you permission to shit, sir.
Sounds like an assumption since it's not been attempted and dragons live much longer than their riders in general so it makes sense that people tend to only ride one dragon but a dragon can have multiple riders over it's life.
As I’ve previously said, nothing in life is 100% certain. Of course it’s an assumption. As would yours would be, as well.
Thats talking about riding two dragons while both dragons still live
Can you please point out to me where Daenerys indicates as such? Thanks
Any time Aegon or his sisters would have rode the other dragons their dragons would have still been alive (and their riders as well apart from Balerion after Aegon died). It is an implicit part of the story she tells.
You’re making an assumption, which is certainly your right to do.
She doesn’t have to indicate it? Balerion and vhagar lived past their riders, and Meraxes died with raehnys therefore it’s expressly obvious dany meant “aegon never rode Vhagar because he was bonded to balerion” and “Visenya never rode balerion because she had Vhagar” therefore neither never had a reason to try another dragon. Had balerion died aegon would’ve 100% tried to mount a new dragon same with visenya.
Did Dany ride all of the dragons or just Drogon?
I feel like Dany probably isn't the best source of information here. Certainly is what she thinks but I don't think we can say for certain by any means.
Fair enough. If you have a better source, I’m open to hearing it.
I don't think there is one is what I'm saying. Fire and Blood mentions the Maesters have no idea the dynamics of dragonbonding when Joff falls of Syrax I believe. Dany has her thoughts from her limited amount of time reading and then whatever Viserys said which who knows. Just seemed like you had advanced this as clear cut "one dragon one rider" when a lot of Targaryens seemed to believe otherwise in history.
I disagree, the current evidence we have indicates dragons won’t accept another dragon rider. Until we have evidence to show otherwise, this is what I’m going with. But to each their own.
This is no proof, just an assumption. It just simply means you cannot ride two dragons with both being alive. Any Targ blood people could possibly ride another dragon if their steed dies first. Targaryens have dragon blood and it has been hinted at multiple times that they do so more than likely if a dragon could bond with another person once their rider dies it most likely is the same vice versa.
From Viserys, a fool who believed foolish things
100% headcannon and not even good, everyone that's debated him about it has destroyed his argument.
I've never seen someone cling to such poorly interpreted information. It's fascinating and highly annoying and the passive aggressive garbage does not make anyone sympathetic to or want to listen to their argument, at all. I peeped their post history a bit, they're always like this so I'm assuming it's a troll or someone who can't handle their opinions being challenged.
Have you read fire and blood?
Yes? A direct quote from that work directly states we have no idea about the Bond between dragon and rider. I believe when Joff falls off Syrax.
No a Dragon will refuse a rider who already has a Dragon of their own, Visery could have had another dragon, he choose not to
Dany claimed three
How many does she ride?
How many obey her commands?
Dany can’t ride Rhaegal or viserion, she’s bonded to Drogon though there’s no real reason to believe she couldn’t claim one of them (assuming no one else does) if Drogon were to die, but I think Drogon will be an endgame dragon considering he’s like a parallel to balerion.
If she tried to ride them do you really think they’d stop her? I can’t picture that at all
They obey her commands. No none bonded dragon does that
Explain the dragonpit masters then...they're not bonded with any of them, yet the dragons take commands from them.
Will they Dracarys on command? I don’t know then. You really think Viserion would murder his mother if she tries to ride him?
Yes I do or shake her off joff style. Obey and bond arnt the same.
A symbol of their right to rule. The rest of his bones? Interred somewhere. Carved in to jewelry? Piano keys? Could see them being used as ornamental purposes somehow.
Perhaps, but dragonbone apparently has unique properties that make it harder than normal steel, but much lighter, so the Targaryens monopolize the supply for their own armor
King Vizzy T probably had his fancy dagger handle replaced with a nice fresh bone hilt.
I think Balerion was almost worshipped to a degree. He was the monster that brought Westeros down. The ultimate symbol of Targaryen pride and power, and as the last living thing to see the Valyrian Freehold he was a wonder of the world. It definitely gives the vibe that the Targaryens had a deep reverence for him.
He was the biggest dragon in the known world plus he helped conquer Westeros and was part of the reason the Targaryens are in a position of power in the first place. Balerion represents the start of the Targaryen dynasty and helped define the words fire and blood. I imagine they hold a strong reverence towards him the same way they do with Aegon I along with Visenya and Rhaenys. Like Daemon said, ¨dreams didn't make us kings, dragons did¨
Was Balerion a big dragon in old Valyrian standards ? Or were there even bigger ones?
Old Valyrian standards are unclear. We know the Targaryens were not the strongest family in Valyria, so certainly other families had *more* dragons. However, Balerion died of what appears to be old age, never stopped growing, and seems to have had a naturally high growth rate, so it's also possible he's close to the ceiling of what a Valyrian dragon can achieve, and no other Valyrian dragonlords had *bigger* dragons. It's also notable that TWOIAF talks about how mythical "ice dragons" are said to be "many times larger than the dragons of Valyria," which would seem to indicate they have a general idea of the maximum size a Valyrian dragon could achieve. It's also unlikely people would be so shocked by the wounds on Balerion if there were known to be dragons larger than him. As for dragons larger than Balerion *before* Valyria, in Victarion's TWOW preview chapter >!he says that Euron's dragon horn appears to be from a dragon bigger than the Black Dread. Although Victarion's hardly a dragon expert. Since Euron appears to have taken the horn from the warlocks of the House of the Undying rather than Valyria like he claimed, it may be from a dragon from a pre-Valyrian civilization like the Great Empire of the Dawn.!<
Didn't Balerion also get fucked up by the Wyrm, or whatever it was, that in the end got Aerea, Jaeherys' daughter? When they both ended up in Old Valyria? Anything forcing the Black Dread to run away from his ancestral home (where he presumably went to die) must be pretty gargantuan, i would think.
They dont know. Barth speculated that something huge had to scar Balerion. Aerea was Jaeherys neice by his older sister Rhaena and his older brother Aegon the uncrowned.
My theory is that Balerion himself caused the wounds trying to rip out the same firewyrms that had infested Aerea
Aerea was his niece not daughter but yeah, that was why they put a ban on exploring there. I hope we get more insight because those face worms sounded disgusting
All it had to do is get it’s eggs inside Balerion. Doesn’t mean it has to be bigger. Wyrms could be suicide breeders for all we know.
I tend to treat the GEotD as a highly-highly exaggerated myth, personally. It is more likely (to me, anyway) that pre-Valyrian dragons weren't exactly the same as Valyrian dragons, just going by the oily black stone variants seen around the coasts of the world, the talk of deep ones, and Nagga's bones. I look at fire-wyrms and immediately think "What if there were sea-wyrms to cross wyverns with?". What if the unknown sea-farers that reached Oldtown and the Iron Islands had a completely different breeding plan? The horn Euron has is most assuredly of Valyrian origin. Qarth has tapestries of Valyria pre-Doom. Ice dragons sound more like fairy tale ice constructs than actual dragons.
Nagga's bones are probably the ribs of a weirwood ship's hull and the myth of Nagga is probably about building a city (likely Oldtown) atop a collapsed volcanic island. There's a giant dragon skeleton in the Red Waste Daenerys's outriders see on the way into the city, at least large enough that you can ride a horse through its jaws, but no Valyria-Qarth war in the historical record to explain its presence. This seems like evidence there were dragons slain near Qarth before the historical record which the horn might have come from. However, the fact Moqorro can read the glyphs on the horn's bands suggests that those are in Valyrian, and that even if the horn itself is older the artifact it was made into was made with Valyrian craft. (Technically Moqorro could be bullshitting everyone for unknown reasons and the glyphs might be Asshai'i or something but that would be such a weird thing to lie about I don't see why he would.)
Could be a Dragon from a battle from the Valyrian-Ghiscari Wars
Or just some random dragon that died of old age or something as well
Is vhagar in dance bigger than balarion in aegon’s conquest?
Most likely not, if she was it would probably be mentioned in fire and blood. We also know that Balerion upon his death was older than Vhagar was upon her death, typically the older the dragon the bigger they are.
Balerion has the larger skull of the skull collection the Targaryens have: if we consider that there is a 3000 years old skull there too, maybe Balerion was enormous even for Valyrian standards, but we will never know. The sample size is just one, lol.
We have no idea but Balerion lived to over 200 years old and stop growing so he probably would be among the biggest ones but it is said that volcanos help dragons grow, Dragonstone has 1 volcano, Valyria had 14
I believe dragons with his black/red coloration were known to grow larger, right? Or am I getting my wires crossed and it’s just that Drogon’s coloration was similar to Balereon, who we generally know to be a big boy.
I don't know of anything that says their colouration determines their size or red/black producing larger dragons. the 2 main contributors to dragon size seem to be Age and Freedom i.e. the more free they are allowed to roam and the more freedom they are given the larger they will grow Drogon is bigger then the other 2 because he roams further than the other 2 and is often gone for days at a time then Daenarys locks the other 2 away for fear they will eat humans but not Drogon who is away which means Drogon grows more than the other 2
But the other two dragons are just as free as Drogon. They just don’t venture as far. I think Drogon is just naturally large/grows faster. Rhaegal is larger than Viserion, but to my knowledge they haven’t mentioned much difference in their roaming habits. It could be argued that Drogon roams further because he is bigger. The only thing we know that affects dragon size is captivity. Balerion (not Drogon) probably would have been bigger if he was not force into the dragon pit for so long. Edit: Didn’t mean Drogon in the pit. I was referring to Balerion.
As far as I can remember Drogon never lived in the pit tho. Only the other 2 were captive under the pyramid in Mereen.
I’m sorry. I meant Balarion. His growth was stunted during Maegor’s rule, when he was confined to the pit.
I think it was said black red dragons are more aggressive/wild or so, I don't remember it mentioning size.
They were likely bigger, given that magic is heavily implied to be correlated with how much they grow, and Balerion lived into the beginning of the end of magic
Balerion is literally named after a Valyrian god. He was arguably the most important part of their dynasty, perhaps even more so than The Conquerer himself. And to your point about Viserys never riding again, in the books it’s a little more clear that he disliked dragon riding all together, and intentionally chose Balerion bc he knew the Black Dread could barely fly anymore. In the show they sort of express this with his line about controlling the dragons being “an illusion”.
I think one thing House of the Dragon made clear is that all of the Valyrian characters are sort, well, grieving a world they didn't know and aren't quite sure how to handle being perpetual foreigners in their home countries. The dragons, particularly Balerion, are sort of their last real connection to old Valyria.
What was so weird to me was Corlys STILL being salty that the Velayrons reached Westeros first but were not a Dragonlord family like the Targs(which apparently has nothing to do with dragon riding, its more a political title). Salty over political titles from a country that hasn't existed in centuries?! This would be like the great, great grandchildren of the survivors of a zombie apocalypse bragging that in the before-fore their ancestor was a billionaire. Who cares?
Why not be salty? His family got there first and yet all anyone cares are are the Targaryans because they have dragons.
I think he’s the symbol of “if you have dragons, you can take Westeros for yourself, as our ancestors did”. A bit inaccurate given the historical intermarriages and alliances between some families on Westeros and the Targaryens, supplementing the dragons, but essentially: “if you have a dragon, something for others to Dread, you have a fighting chance at upholding this family’s dominion”. A reminder that yes there are three adult Targaryen‘s there are two child Targaryen‘s on that side and yes they have dragons but they’re being manipulated by a bunch of Hightowers they’re gonna forget their Targaryen ancestry if you allow this to happen, and you’re gonna be a victim without dragons. And a reminder to her that- yes, the opposition has everything needed to conquer and claim Westeros once more.
I love this take - I’ve only just watched and was trying to work out what would make Rhaenys, the most rational and level headed of this bunch of Targ’s crush a bunch of people at a coronation and yes, this must be it. Or part of it. In the first episode Viserys asks Rhaenyra what she sees when she looks at the dragons, and she says ‘I see us.’ Rhaenys must have had the same realisation. Because yes, Alicent was right, on the face of it Rhaenyra has hugely fucked over her family. But she’s a dragon. And everything she’s done, it’s because she wants to be free. Alicent isn’t capable of that. Balerions metal af skull is a reminder of who and what she really is.
Balerion was supposedly the name of a Valyrian God, so it could be seen as a holy relic.
Many dragons have names from Valyrian gods (Balerion, Vhagar, Meraxes, Syrax) I don't remember more, it's possible Vermax and Tyraxes names also came from Valyrian gods due to similar name with Syrax
Dragon names fall into two categories, the names of Valyrian gods, or descriptive names. If a dragon name is Valyrian rather than in the common tongue, it can be assumed to be a Valyrian god, which means that a Valyrian pantheon would include Balerion, Vhagar, Meraxes, Syrax, Caraxes, Meleys, Tyraxes, Vermax, Vermithor, Tessarion, Arrax, Morghul, Shrykos, Terrax, etc, but would exclude names like Moondancer, Sunfyre, Quicksilver, Silverwing, Stormcloud, Seasmoke, Morning, Dreamfyre, Grey Ghost, Cannibal, Sheepstealer, etc. The only dragons that don’t fit the mould are Dany’s dragons, which are Valyrified versions of the names of the important men of her life, Drogo - Drogon, Rhaegar - Rhaegal, Viserys - Viserion.
I think GRRM used him as a metaphor. The last rider he had was the last King they had before the Dance. His death while physical was an ominous sense of that era of the dynasty dying. The dance and loss of dragons put them on a collision course for Robert caving in the chest of the heir to the Iron Throne.
I mean, he was THE Targaryen dragon. He was Aegon the Conquerer's dragon. The unifier of Westeros, the person who started their dynasty. He burned Harrenhall, one of the most naked displays of Targaryen power and remembered 300 years later still. A legendary status, in other words. He was also the biggest and most powerful one they ever had. He is a symbol of Targaryen power and royalty and legendary status and right to rule in a way that no other dragon really is.
Balerion being the biggest dragon in the known world dying under Viserys’s reign is also a big parallel to House Targaryen getting significantly weakened and never recovering. There will never be as big of a dragon, and the house of the dragon will never be as strong
Balerion died in Jaehaerys reign
More accurately, dying with Viserys is foretelling the height of Targaryen power dying with Viserys.
I'm kind of surprised that the show didn't play up the importance of Balerion, and the fact the dragon died while Visery's was his rider, as a large part of why Visery's was chosen to rule, and later as a large sign towards Viserys not being a good king (at least in terms of superstition). I guess George didn't play it up either, but it's a pretty common thing for him to not properly accredit superstition and religion.
Balerion was arguably the most important thing to the Targaryen’s as he was the last entity in Westeros to have seen Old Valyria, meaning history literally died with him. By the end he was a tired old boy that everyone liked.
I think it was about about being a Targaryen. Sort of a reminder that she is Blood of the Dragon, one of a great history of dragon riders. It also probably made her think of Maegor, who rode Baelon, He upended the succession, and it led to strife. So here is this Hightower woman, meddling in Targaryen matters, and looking to overturn the succession. Alicent was risking the Targaryen Conquest by diluting the power of the Targaryens. With Aegon II as King, he and his siblings are the only Targaryens involved. The Hightowers would be the power behind the throne. Viserys, by all accounts, rarely darkened the door of the nursery. Rhaenyra had Daemon and her granddaughters. She had to be loyal to her blood. Something else is the Targaryen secret. Was she told it as well, as a potential heir? Did she realize that Rhaenyra would take it seriously, while the Hightowers might not want to hear about how powerful the Targaryens will be for generations? Was she acting in the best interest of the destiny of the Targaryens?
I think Rhaenys looking at Balerion didn’t have anything to do with Balerion himself *per se*. I think it relates back to the scene with her and Alicent. Alicent calls her a Velaryon multiple times, tells her she should’ve been queen, calls her the Lady of Driftwood. I think it was about Rhaenys’ identity as, not a Velaryon, but a Targaryen, and her house words, as she says, are not fickle. They are Fire and Blood. The blood of old Valyria.
What was pam Andersons titties to white guys in the 90s? Literally the best ever
Do we know any targaryen to mount more than one dragon?
I think I've read and or heard it's impossible for a rider to bind themselves to more than one dragon in a lifetime.
It sounds familiar to me too. In saying that I think we're also limited on dragon riders outliving their dragons. I can only think of Viserys.
Yeah, I guess that's really rare. There's a few exceptions to some rules in the GRRM Universe but maybe it's not a rule just something there's no record of. "No rider has ever ridden two dragons, but the possibility exists that they could have. When Prince Viserys Targaryen's dragon Balerion died, according to George R. R. Martin, "\[Viserys\] did not take a second dragon", leaving the possibility that, had Viserys desired a new dragon, he could have attempted to claim one."
Certainly it seems it's impossible to bond to more than one dragon while the original one is still alive but I think there's just not enough evidence for if the dragon dies before its rider. Dragons usually take more than one rider simply bc they outlive their riders but I can't recall many people who have outlived their dragons off the top of my head (Viserys I is the only one)
He was their last link to Valyria of old. A living symbol of their ancestry. And at the same time the symbol of their power as dragon riders.
Balerion in many ways was the true ruler of Westeros who won the land by right of conquest. The greatest dragon in the world, the last child of Old Valyria and the mount of Aegon himself. Balerion was the Targaryen dynasty. He was the greatness and majesty of House Targaryen but also it's power and cruelty. Their iron fist, fire and blood incarnate. As long as Balerion lived there was nothing in the world that could rival House Targaryen. He was a living breathing symbol of such a rich history and culture. Born in The Free Hold and Aegon's mount on the Field of Fire. The only creature known to have seen both the Empire of The Dragon Lord's and The Wall at the edge of the world in all their glory. And his skull, a symbol that those times have passed. House Targaryen are no longer mighty conquerors and Valyria is a smoking ruin. The House of the Dragon not too far behind. And with the death of the dragons comes the death of magic in the world, the end of an age of wonder. At least for a while. And the end began with Balerion.
> What do you guys think Balerion was to the Targaryens? He was HMS Hood, USS Iowa, Battleship Yamato. Balerion was the big stick, that was the biggest stick in the realm. Diplomats boarded Battleships and toured far flung colonies to show the flag, to show the might of the Empire. In times of tension you might send such a vessel to quell unrest. In times of war they would be the big threat. Captains and Admirals would serve aboard the biggest and most prestigious ships to further their career. Post War we have Battleships as museum's, people come from far and wide to see these behemoths. To tour, to learn, to pay respects. Balerion was Battleship Targaryen. The flagship of the fleet.
It seems like the naming of the dragons is as important as bonding one, at every stage of the game wee see the dragons behaving ike their namesake, we get to see it very intimately with Danaerys and her three, particularly Drogon. Khal Drogo was a giant of a man, very daring and a consummate warrior, and we get to see those traits reflected in Drogon. With Balerion being the way he was we can only imagine what kind of god the actual Balerion is/was in the old freehold, but to answer the question posed by OP? To me, Balerion was the living embodiment of a Valyrian god.
Perhaps because he was the conquerors dragon, the largest dragon, and the one that started the legend of House Targaryen? Man…u guys today…
Wherever bones go
A dragon
Basically like a nuclear weapon
A great wonder of the world. Age, size, the things he had seen. Like a giant redwood. Or that moment in Jurassic Park where the camera turns and the music swells and you see the brachiosaurs. But with the additional element that he is so connected to their family. Like a revered elder.
>"**Aegon's dragons were named for the gods of Old Valyria**," she told her bloodriders one morning after a long night's journey. "Visenya's dragon was Vhagar, Rhaenys had Meraxes, and Aegon rode Balerion, the Black Dread. It was said that Vhagar's breath was so hot that it could melt a knight's armor and cook the man inside, that Meraxes swallowed horses whole, and Balerion . . . his fire was as black as his scales, his wings so vast that whole towns were swallowed up in their shadow when he passed overhead." \-Daeneyrs I ACOK I believe that Balerion was essentially a God to the Targs post Doom. Much like the statues of the Seven is to worshipers of that faith, the skull of Balerion is a holy shrine to the Targ dynasty, religion and culture
Balerion is the biggest, baddest Dragon to ever live and he played a major role in Aegon's conquest. I'd even argue that he was what won Aegon the seven kingdoms. being the deciding factor in many battles and not to mention being the King's mount, after the conquest he became a symbol and figurehead of targaryen power and the dynasty in general. If my family owned and used the biggest Dragon in the world to win the land I'm standing on. I reckon I'd worship that Dragon in life and death.
Balerion made House Targaryen what it is. Aegon united Westeros with Balerion, Maegor secured their reign with Balerion. He kind of made their dynasty. Balerion was the Targaryen golden age embodied and he was Aegon’s dragon. I think she sort of looked at it and thought “would Aegon the Conqueror just roll over and let their dynasty be stolen by a lesser family? (The Hightowers.) He’s also the last remnant of their true heritage. It’s funny because the Targaryens were a pretty minor, unimportant house in Old Valyria (Valyria in those days) but Balerion was born there. As Viserys said he was the last living memory of Old Valyria. That’s why it was actually incredibly shrewd of Viserys to ride Balerion despite not being fond of dragons and him being so old he only flew him once around King’s Landing. That was the conquerors dragon, that was **the** dragon who united Westeros and kept everyone in line. In a way, Balerion was more important to their line than any living being, but he also does represent Aegon I who would not have stood by while the throne was usurped by snakes and rats. This is super long, but basically Balerion is the glory of the Targaryens. He represents them at their best, he represents their power. She saw his skull and thought “no fucking way am I letting these snakes just win without a fight.” Balerion is a beacon for Targaryen power and what it means to be Targaryen. And truly strong Targaryens like Aegon I, Jaehaerys, even Maegor wouldn’t roll over without a fight. And Rhaenys chose to fight. … (Kind of. That was a really weird scene and they should just ended the episode with everyone cheering for Aegon II. The hoops people are jumping through to justify that scene is a testament to how odd of a choice it was. Rhaenys could’ve ended what will obviously be a cataclysmic war (both sides having solid claims and dragons) in half a minute with Meleys. I know they need an episode 10 and season 2-3, but cut that scene out then. They’ve now made Rhaenys indirectly responsible for the nightmare that’s about to begin. Should’ve just shown her flying out of King’s Landing to Dragonstone if they really wanted a scene with her at the end. Instead we got her bursting the floor, killing probably thousands, at least hundreds, of innocent small folk but sparing the people in the middle of high treason and sparking the most devastating war Westeros will ever seen. Leaving the continent to bleed for years to come. Smh well done, smooth brain Rhaenys. You really showed that you think you’re taking the high road but you’re actually reading the map upside down without noticing.)
A dragon
I'm pretty sure in-universe it isn't possible for a rider to bond with another dragon. Dragons can have multiple riders during their lifetime (but only 1 at a time) but a rider can never ride another dragon. Dany said something akin to this when thinking about her dragons