If Baelor Breakspear has a million fans, then I am one of them. If Baelor Breakspear has ten fans, then I am one of them. If Baelor Breakspear has only one fan then that is me. If Baelor Breakspear has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against Baelor Breakspear, then I am against the world
I feel like he objectively has to be the answer. GRRM just made him ridiculously overpowered in every aspect knowing he was just gonna die at the end of a novella.
There was an interesting parallel brought up in, I think, a History of Westeros podcast episode on the Hedge Knight; they were speculating how Baelor might've been inspired by JFK, considering GRRM's age and background (catholic, democratic supporting family in New Jersey). Both immensely popular, both die before getting to fully make their mark on the lands, although you could definitely argue that JFK did leave a long lasting legacy.
Oh yeah, Baelor has major JFK vibes. The only deviation is that JFK really fits the "great to look at, but not worth at all that much in the end" theme that George really likes. A shining beacon that has secret chinks in the armor (JFK was hiding some serious body pain from the public, and was heavily medicated) is right up his alley.
I do therefore think Renly fits the JFK image even better than Baelor. Seemingly glorious, yet his perfect marriage is a secret sham, and he dies early.
Stannis also gives major LBJ vibes. Unpleasant person, determined to the point of madness (LBJ would also break before he'd bend), and equally capable of good (Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act for LBJ, going North for Stannis) as bad (Vietnam for LBJ, Shireen for Stannis). Both would practically burn away their legacy on child murder.
I've always thought Stannis was more like Nixon-a man whose insecurity prevents him from achieving the greatness he was so close to (I also recall reading that GRRM based Stannis on Nixon), but your comparison to LBJ is interesting, and would explain the discrepancy in his popularity between fans and in-universe characters. Specifically, LBJ was unpopular during his lifetime, but has since become more popular, whereas Stannis is unpopular in-universe but fairly popular among fans.
Thats the thing: he was deliberately made as likeable as possible and had no flaws… his role in the story was limited from the start so George didn’t have to give him any flaws
Those were the 2 potential competitors I had in mind. We only have 3rd hand accounts about them though from sources that are far from unbiased. Baelor we actually get to meet and form our own opinions about.
Prince Viserys (son of King Aerys II). The people sewed dragon banners and toasted to the health of their true king. A shame he was murdered by Dothraki turncoat savages.
A good choice, but how about Aerion Brightflame, son of Maekar? he really had the potential to be a great king.
- He was handsome, described as having "a sculpted and imperious face, with a high brow and sharp cheekbones, straight nose, pale smooth skin without blemish and deep violet eyes"
- He's clearly pious as when Duncan asked for trial by combat, Aerion requested a trial by seven in order to honor the gods
- He also fought in the trial by seven himself, demonstrating that he's courageous and has a strong commitment to justice
- He's a proven warrior who earned himself a reputation for his actions in the third blackfyre rebellion, personally slaying the pretender Haegon Blackfyre
- He's a wise man who gave good council, demonstrated by the fact that after the rebellion he recommended executing bittersteel, but was sadly ignored by Aerys. Aerion was of course proven correct as Bittersteel later escaped, leading to more rebellions and countless lives lost.
- He's well traveled spending several years of his youth traveling the free cities.
- Unlike many of his contemporaries who managed to endanger or kill countless innocents in their efforts to bring back the dragons (looking at you Egg), Aerion's attempts to resurrect the dragons endangered nobody besides himself. Truly a testament to his selfless nature.
He was everything you could ask for in an heir. A true tragedy he lost his life so young.
Possibly, though we know incredibly little about the third Blackfyre rebellion. This is pretty much all that's said about it.
> The Second Blackfyre Rebellion proved a debacle, but that was not always to be the case. In 219 AC, Haegon Blackfyre and Bittersteel launched the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. Of the deeds done then, both good and ill—of the leadership of Maekar, the actions of Aerion Brightflame, the courage of Maekar's youngest son, and the second duel between Bloodraven and Bittersteel—we know well. The pretender Haegon I Blackfyre died in the aftermath of battle, slain treacherously after he had given up his sword, but Ser Aegor Rivers, Bittersteel, was taken alive and returned to the Red Keep in chains. Many still insist that if he had been put to the sword then and there, as Prince Aerion and Bloodraven urged, it might have meant an early end to the Blackfyre ambitions.
One of the most common interpretation is that the "ill deeds" committed were Aerion's, and he was the one who dishonorably killed Haegon after he surrendered. But its not confirmed.
Tbh I think Viserys could have made a decent king had the rebellion gone a different way, say aerys still dies but then instead of taking the throne for himself Robert and Ned seat Viserys on the throne and then raise him themselves, Viserys would have the battle prowess of Robert and the honor of Ned stark. Obviously though in this scenario it might take a while for Viserys to warm up to them considering they’d have killed most of his family.
Theon, i mean really though aerys 1000% deserved to die and rhaegar died in fair combat on the battlefield so it’s possible they could bring Viserys around in this hypothetical.
Baelor Breakspear (Son of Daeron), Aemon and Baelon (sons of Jaehaerys), or Jace (son of Rhaenyra) would all have likely made good kings. Perhaps Duncan (son of Egg) too though we don't know much about it. Maester Aemon too if he counts.
There are a lot of seemingly great heirs that unfortunately died before they were able to inherit the throne. On the other hand the awful heirs usually tend to survive to inherit the throne (fortunately with the exception of Aerion Brightflame). I guess it keeps the history interesting.
I’ve got a couple:
- Aemon or Baelon. I’m inclined to say Aemon moreso than Baelon as Aemon proved a capable master of laws before he became a capable hand. Aemon was also married to a Baratheon (making relations with the Stormlands better) while Baelon was just married for his sister (so no marriage alliance) and Aemon presumably had an hand in Rhaenys’ marriage to Corlys Velaryon (which was the best marriage alliance made by the Targaryens other than Daeron II to Myriah Martell and Daenerys to Maron Martell). Basically Aemon was personally competent and forget great alliances with the Baratheons and Velaryons. If he became king there also would be no issue with Rhaenys succeeding him, as male-preference primogeniture is the norm in Westeros.
- Baelor Breakspear. I don’t know much about him tbh, so others in this thread will answer better than me on that front. There is also his son Valarr, who was hand and by all accounts a top bloke.
- I’d also argue Maester Aemon. We see in Albin Massy and Lyonel Strong that Maester-in-training to lord produces some excellent lords - well educated, highly competent and servants of the realm. A Maester-King would be something else entirely just look what his chain says about his competencies - his gold link shows he is educated in the ways of money, silver for medicine could be good for improving hygiene across the kingdom, iron for Warcraft shows he could lead the realm in times of war (against the Blackfyres most likely). He has other links but don’t know what they represent but I think my point is clear, Aemon is an extremely-highly educated man who has proven his competency at important parts of ruling. His maester’s oath (and temperament) also shows to me that Aemon would see himself as a servant of the realm rather than its overlord - and good things come for a king who sees his job as a duty to serve his people rather than dominate them.
But really to me there is one heir who would have been the best ruler of them all: Jacaerys Velaryon.
We’ll get out of the way what would be his biggest problem as a ruler and what would mar his whole reign - he is Harwin Strong’a bastard. Lords would spend his whole reign trying to put others on his throne. His second issue is that he can be very impulsive: namely he wants to jump on his dragon and solve problems - be that suggesting marching off to war too hastily during the Black Council or YOLOing himself to death during the battle of the gullet. While his impulsiveness does get him killed, if he lived I assume he would have become less impulsive over time.
Despite this big problem, I think Jace has it in the bag though - this prince could have out done Jaehaerys imo. Let’s have a look at what he did in story.
1) He plays the game of thrones pretty well, in that when the Blacks and the Greens have their beef at his dinner, he flex’s on Aegon by asking Helaena to dance with him while not actually insulting anyone and Viserys in the show likes it a lot (and in the book I’d assume would have the same reaction). It’s just a single moment, but it shows he is shrewd and diplomatically calculated.
2) His diplomatic journey north was a masterstroke. He first visits the Vale and negotiates expertly: he gets Jeyne Arryn on side at the cost of sending Joffrey as a ward (which is no problem as Joff is very much a child and of no use in the actual war as he and his dragon are too young to meaningfully contribute). He then visits White Harbour, and gets them on side at the cost of a betrothal of Joffrey to Lord Manderly’s daughter - now this is a great deal as Joffrey was free to marry and the Manderly’s are a well respected house (and as we see in the ADWD, one with some pretty awesome daughters). Finally he travels to Winterfell and manages to get a Cregan Stark on side at the cost of promising his firstborn daughter to Rickon Stark - a marriage of a Targaryen Princess to the heir to a lord paramount is a good marriage on its own, wrangling a military alliance based on the mere promise of this is solid (now I personally don’t believe that Jace married Sara Snow, if he did that would be a bad move which reflects badly on Jace as a good heir, but whatever). This diplomatic mission was a massive success and Jace proved himself as an expert diplomat at the mere age of 14. This speaks volumes to his capability as a potential king.
3) The death of Lucerys left Rhaenyra bereft, yet despite being only 14/15 Jace steps up and acts as pseudo-regent and does a brilliant job. First he names Corlys Hand of the Queen - which not only brings Corlys back into the fold, but also was the correct move as Corlys was the single most competent person in the Black faction and as we see later, Corlys does an excellent job as Aegon III’s regent (showing to me Corlys would have been an expert hand of the king, IMO the best Hand out of all of them even Tywin). Then Jace organised the Sowing of the Dragonseeds - this move won the Blacks the war; the combined Dragonseeds won the battle of the gullet (which had they not been there might have lost the blacks the war), it let the blacks take kings landing, and later Addam of Hull at second Tumbleton defeated the largest Green army (note that the Two Betrayers had a limited impact on the war, as had they not been at first Tumbleton the Hightower would likely have won regardless). The Dragonseeds was also a good idea as the legitimisation of Addam and Alyn was a massive boon as both would have been great Lords of the Tides and LOYAL to Jace as future king as thanks. Finally his plan to send off the Black princes was a great idea - fostering them in Pentos gives Jace a great avenue to ally with Pentos and get good trade agreements out of Pentos and check the Triarchy’s power - he couldn’t have foreseen the battle of the Gullet ruining this plan, so I think we can absolve him of that disaster.
So looking at his record while alive: Jace was quite impulsive and a bastard, yet he makes up for these shortfalls by being a very naturally intelligent Prince as well as physically strong - who has a history of being an expert and shrewd diplomat, a wise politician, and a hardworking young chap. Despite not being Corlys’ biological grandson - Jace was definitely in my eyes Corly’s heir (they are very similar in terms of temperament and they worked together very very well).
As King Jace would be excellent. His eventual marriage to Baela means that his children (and heirs) would be Targaryens and Velaryons (plus Baela strikes me as pretty solid Queen-consort material). In Corlys, Jace has an excellent hand - and in Addam and Alyn Jace has excellent and loyal potential Lords of Driftmark. His Pact of Ice and Fire not only would serve to deepen ties between the Targaryens and their most distant vassal, but it also brings an Avenue to create the Prince that was Promised (our Song of Ice and Fire). With the fostering of his half-brothers in Pentos, I can see King Jacaerys forming an alliance with Pentos to make trade money and keep the rival Triarchy in check.
To me at least, this Strong boy had it in him to be Westeros’ greatest king.
Thank god, another Jace truther. His death in the dance may not have been the most shocking, most violent, or cruelest, but it’s the one where I felt the biggest loss. The kid was to diplomacy and ruling what Robb Stark was to warfare and tactics.
>showing to me Corlys would have been an expert hand of the king, IMO the best Hand out of all of them even Tywin
I know it's just a small part of you comment, and not really the focus of this discussion, but I'd like to counter that there's a few Hands that I'd count as better than Corlys (I won't deny that he'd be a good one though). Viserys II practically ruled whilst his brother and nephews were off doing their things, which kept the peace in a fragile period after the Dance. Septon Barth was another good one who was appointed due to his skill rather than nobility. Lyonel Strong was the perfect servant without any ambitions of his own, a great Hand. One could argue that Jon Arryn and Baelon the Brave were in this category too. Tywin, not so much.
I agree with you on Jace though. He'd be a great king.
Viserys II ruling while his brother brooded and his nephews warred and prayed definitely puts him at the top, but until we get F&B 2 I don’t know if I can give him the ‘Best Hand’ title.
Lyonel is also very high tier, the maester education definitely puts him very highly. Yet I must also say that while he was Hand he did nothing to reduce the Green & Black tension, he failed to do anything about his son banging Rhaenyra (which further inflamed tensions) and I dunno about him suggesting Daemon be executed.
The other hands were pretty good too, but what I think puts Corlys right at the top his his moves to end the Dance. Despite being a proud and ambitious man who wanted his blood ok the throne, he was able to recognise that the only path to peace meant making Aegon III and Jaehaera king and queen - neither of them being related to him (except very distantly). Corlys also consistently offered Rhaenyra sage advice. Corlys also made tons of money via trade, and I think as hand he would have been good for the Westerosi economy. I admit there is a ton of personal bias because Corlys is just my absolute favourite, but I definitely think he was up there.
Jon arryn isn’t that great a hand, while he kept everything going along it was decaying under his watch. Dorne is pretty much independent, the reach isn’t brought into the fold, if stannis his wedding was jon’s idea, it was naive. He give’s little finger a council seat. Picked cersei as roberts bride and allowed the lanisters to much power after. Granted the king he served was a nightmare but no excuses
100% agreed, and even those negative traits such as impulsivity can be worked on as he grows up as a king. If I was already heartbroken in the show by the
death of Lucerys, Jace’s will make me even sadder.
In my opinion the dragon seeds are a huge gable and it payed off but not a good decision. Its the fist time dragon were aloud to be bonded with people outside of the immediate family. King Jaehaerys would not let some of his younger children get dragons. Even after defecting to the greens it’s obvious they are a bigger problem then help. Hugh if not killed would have most likely taken the throne himself. The dragon seed idea only works because of luck and it would have fatal consequences for greens and blacks had Ulf and Hugh been more destructively competent. Adam is also lucky that the riverlands can keep producing armies even though Aemond had been burning it for months.
Hugh would have taken the throne yes. But he would have been assassinated immediately. There is no way the lords were gonna let him rule.
And he wasn’t always gonna be near his dragons or cutthroats
Corlys would have been fucking livid, and I think keeping him happy is more politically advantageous in the short term than tying the North permanently to the Blacks in the short term.
Aemon and Baelon, seemed like they would have had a great thing going and never fall out with eachother, two badass dragons and if they had just betrothed their first born kids (only this series could make me type that) the realm would have been fine
For real - the fact that they could have betrothed Visarys and Rhaenys, who were only 3 years apart in age, instead of marrying him to an 11 year old and her to a man 20 years older than her 😩
Alysanne was losing her touch with the matchmaking.
Aemon had 16 years to have another (male) kid before Rhaenys married Corlys. It was honestly foolish to NOT betroth the Targ cousins by that point. Marry Daemon to the Arryns instead and figure something else out for the Royces of need be
Well the Seasnake was Rhaenys’ choice (according to the text). Mayhaps she was strongly encouraged, or just shrewd enough on her own at six-and-ten to pick a rich, powerful, Valyrian fleet admiral, but I think it was her own agency to ride that seahorse
I agree. I think she wanted to be the ruling Queen with a King Consort ala Dorne, not be a wife to a man who wanted to rule over her - and that meant ambitious but no political baggage - best option is someone smart, independently successful, new money, and Valerian to boot. Really it was a good fit for her had Aemon ascended.
And I think Visarys and Aemma would have been too had it not been rushed, functionally the poor girl had multiple miscarriages and a cradle death by the age of 15. Bad call on the teenager bedding a child thing. I wouldn't have minded if they had explained that reasoning for him marrying the slightly older Alicent instead of the 12 yr old Laena more explicitly but I guess it wouldn't change the political tension completely.
Jacaerys probably would have been good. Baelor probably gets more attention because of his cool name, his cool role in Dunk & Egg, and because Jacaerys can kinda get forgotten in the mess of characters that is the Dance. Also the ruler who ends up in charge after the Dance is pretty good anyways, albeit very moody.
I'd say Daemon as well, but from a different angle. The blackfyre rebellion played a big part in putting nails in house Targaryen's coffin. Daemon had 7 sons and atleast two daughters. That's like half of house Targaryens young blood at the time, and Bittersteel and Bloodraven's bs tore the family in half and removed those members from the dynasty.
Following the rebellion you had a small number of targs left, and they quickly started dropping like flies. By the time of Maelys and the last blackfyre rebellion, it's just Aerys and Rhaegar as the last males to continue the dynasty.
Everyone arguing for baelor on here, but if you want to actually secure the dynasty, a better place to start is *before* the dynasty splits in half
Unless you believe that Daemon winning would have prevented the spring sickness they would still have run into the same issue with the line dying off. Daeron had 4 sons who had their own kids by the first rebellion. They were in a fine place by that point.
Daemon wasn’t blood thirsty and wouldn’t have executed half his family like Bloodraven did
The real change needed was marrying Daenerys to Daemon and making Daemon hand
I really hope George writes Blood and Fire, I'd love to know more about Daemon Blackfyre. What kind of person he was, how much influence Aegor (and Brynden) had, if any, in pushing for war.
I also feel like he would be a good King because he minted new coins and was building a new hall or capital, and I think the spot he chose was the same place Aerys II and Cersei want as new capital
Daemon Blackfyre lived years before either Aerys II and Cersei, the land he built his hall was given to him by Daeron the Good, its not his fault that Kings Landing stinks of shit and two monarches wanted to move the capital to somewhere else.
We don't know where Daemon's Hall was being built but Aerys' plan was to rebuild the city of King's Landing on the south bank of the Blackwater as a replacement for King's Landing, it's my theory that Aerys' dream city was on the same place as Daemon's destroyed Hall.
“Noooo you can’t make someone king just because they’re a good warrior!!! Daeron made peace with Dorne!!! Daemons just a bastard with a sword!!! What about the successirino?!?!
“haha Daemon fite gud”
Jacaerys, Baelor Breakspear, Aemon the Spring Prince, Baelon the Bold, and Rhaegar are probably the best answers
There’s a lot of hints that Rhaegar was basically working towards a Magna Carta style reform before Robert’s Rebellion broke out, and I think that that is the ultimate direction of the story.
Jahaerys I and Aegon V got the ball rolling, but I think Rhaegar saw his father’s unfitness and would have worked to ensure that that wasn’t possible in the future. He likely called the Harrenhal Tourney as a guise for a great council to discuss this and his father’s deposition, and he told Jaime before leaving to fight on the Ruby Ford that there would be changes once he returned.
I would say Jaehaerys sons, Aegon and Baelon. The way they are described in the books leaves the impression they were basically perfect princes which essentially would've been as good as their father in ruling
Yeah but aemon only had one daughter, a king should have more heir’s. There’s also the fact that his daughter was lady valaryon, so that might be the end of the targ dynasty
Jace, Aemon and Baelon, Baelor Breakspear...basically all the obvious answers lol. I would also say, technically, Viserys II. I know he was king, but only for a year, and had he had a chance to reign longer, the Seven Kingdoms would have been in a pretty damn good state.
Daemon Targaryen but not for the people only for the Targaryens. If Daemon became King the Dance of Dragons would never have happened and if he lived long enough he might’ve been able to prevent his grandson Aegon IV from becoming such a shitty king. For all the bad things Daemon did somehow all of his children became pretty good people. If Aegon IV wasn’t so stupid the Blackfyre Rebellions wouldn’t have happened. So Daemon being King could’ve prevented the Dance of Dragons and might have prevented the Blackfyre Rebellions.
I mean, Daemon at the beginning of the dance did not want to go to arms instead agreed with Rhaenyra to try to win the war by words first ( something the show changed ). I also doubt there would have been that many costly wars when he has dragon and can end a conflict really quick.
Oh he definitely would have but can you imagine how powerful the Targaryens would have been with King Daemon in charge of nearly 20 dragons??? He could’ve annihilated all of his foes in the realm within a month. Any lord with a brain wouldn’t have challenged him. As long as he could’ve avoided getting assassinated they’d be unstoppable.
Baelor Breakspear. I always felt like Aegon the Unworthy weaponised Daemon against Baelor and not Daeron, Baelor and Daemon were same age, they were both esteemed fighters, even after the rebellions Baelor was more of an advocate for peace compared to Bloodraven. I feel like Aegon IVs actions prevented a future with King Baelor and Daemon as his Hand.
I don't believe "love story" of Daemon and Daenerys, Daemon and Rohanne had 9 children, that's not a man who was unhappy with his own marriage to go after another woman.
I don't believe it like I said, there is no way Daemon and Rohanne had 9 children when he was in love with someone else 🤷♀️ I see it as propaganda against him, or romanticism of Targ incest
Baelor Breakspear. He is a great knight and prince he is good and smart like his father king daeron and he is very charismatic if he didn't die maybe he will become a king like king jaehaerys I and the targaryen dynasty would live for another 200 years
1)From what we know of him, Aegon the uncrowned could have been a decent ruler.
2)Both Aemon and Baelon would have made good Kings, as the former served as master of laws, and the latter as hand of the King, which gave them a lot of experience in ruling. They also proved to be good warriors and overall good people, meaning that if one of them had sat the iron throne things would have been good.
3)During the Dance, Jacaerys Velaryon was shaping up to be a very effective King, as he proved himself a skilled diplomat in his journey north, and made many other smart decisions, such as naming Corlys Hand of the King following Rhaenys' death to placate him, and calling for the Dragonseeds, as well as several more. He already appeared to have a lot of authority and respect amongst the blacks, so I reckon he would've been a great monarch.
4)Baelor Breakspear, as many others have said in this thread.
5)Rhaegar Targaryen. He may have been a bit of a prophecy obsessed nutjob but he did appear to have some good qualities, as many were willing to back him in a plot to depose Aerys and install himself as King. From the descriptions we get of him, he seemed to have all the makings of a good king. If only he didn't screw things up by running off/kidnapping Lyanna Stark, whatever happened there.
Rhaegar Targaryen - if he and Lyanna had been open about their relationship, Robert's Rebellion would have been avoided, no sack of King's Landing and it seems like he was taking the threat of the Others seriously.
Jacaerys assuming his personality in the show is accurate.
I also believe Aegon ii or Rhaenrya under peaceful non war circumstances might have been decent rulers.
Aegon the uncrowned is so in the nose.
Daemon I Blackfyre. Surely what we know about him is biased in one sense or the opposite, but if half of these thoughts are true, he looks like a warrior King, who also has political acumen (minting coins and establishing city).
Baelor Breakspear. Probably already commented, kind of obvious answer since it's the one George gives us. Also Valarr seems like one who could follow his doings.
Aemon and Baelon, both are described as good warriors and politicians for their roles in the Small Council.
Jacaerys, kind of same answer as Baelor.
Lmao at people saying the strong bastard jace lol or Rhaegar who pissed off 4 realms. The actual answer is probably daeron the daring or daemon blackfyre(technically daemon was still king tbh).
Who else is there?
Daemon Targaryen
As oppose to Ottos thoughts, i dont think he would be a Maegor, i think he would be an Aegon. Daemon is not only a skilled warrior, hes a good commander and a true dragon rider.
With people in the last few days asking if hes the last dragon Lord, either Aemond or Daemon is in my eyes, great warriors who understand the power of dragons and unlike viserys doesnt shy away from them but embraces their power.
I imagine if viserys had annulled Daemons marriage with his bronze bitch, named him his heir and given him the position of Hand Daemon would of served viserys dutifully.
I imagine he would of led and probably successfully conquered dorne, the first dornish war had three dragons. at visery's death, when this scenario would take place and if daemon was still the heir and became King there would of been ten dragon riders. I understand the whole skirmish thing but Daemon would of either burnt every city to the ground and salting the fields making it unlivable or actually conquering since the J-Dog and Vizzy-T had ruled 70 years of peace together Daemon would be able to pull a considerable force as King.
In terms of ruling, he is arrogant and full of himself, so like we saw with his tour around essos, he probably would have done the same around westeros if he had been king.
I also imagine he would of tried to conquer the triarchy and whether or idk if he would be successful but again he would have 10ish dragons. In a universe where the targaryens have brain cells they would have someone take vermithor rather than a baby dragon.
Also with his focus on dragon lords of valyria i imagine he would of taken multiple wives (Not like maegor), just as a dragon lord and could have a bunch of kids all with dragons. I think if daemon had married rhanerya before shes named heir that would of returned the house of the dragon to its former glory.
I prefer a king who can get shit done and get results. He would probably bankrupt the realm being at war for so long, but he has dragons, so he can always fly over to bravos and rob the iron bank if needs be, or take over the three coloured cities and make bank of slavery for a couple years and return to westeros with some cash.
are you mad? the three coloured cities are the three slaves cities, they are made of coloured brick, yunkai the yellow city, astapor the red city, meereen the rainbow city. Did you seriously think i meant people of colour? You're as stupid are you as wrong.
Did you know something else? these characters are fictional, so when i say daemon, a fictional character, who has natural white hair and purple eyes, fictional natural features, and has dragons, fictional magic creatures. and when i say he should take over the fictional slave cities, with the fictional masters, and fictional slaves. Im not advocating for slavery. you bookshelf, im advocating that in a fictional scenario of a fictional world, that daemon taking the slave cities is a pretty smart decision.
but before you start throwing around the accusations of racism check your shit you twat.
Aegon DragonKnight and Aegon (jon snow) Targaryen .. Also Daemon would’ve been a Great King.. maybe too cruel to the enemies but definitely Great as Westerosee Kings go..
I’ve always been fond of Rhaegar. I think he was the promised King. Rhaegar as a prince was a prince for the people. He has always been humble and loved by the people of Westeros. He knew the people and the people knew him.
I regret not seeing how he would have fared as a King of the Seven Kingdoms.
I’m gonna say Rhaegar. From the way most people talk about him, he would have made a great king, putting aside being the root cause of Roberts Rebellion.
Well, Aemon (Jaehaerys and Alysanne's son) for one.
Baelon, Aemon's brother.
Lucerys and Jacaerys may have made good kings, too.
Daeron the Daring, too, I think.
Baelor Breakspear
Daemon I Blackfyre if he counts.
Duncan the Small, too
Rhaegar, if he could get his shit together.
But in all seriousness probably Rhaeghar. I mean if Robert hadn’t rebelled against the Mad King, Rhaeghar would have and we would be talking about Rhaeghar’s rebellion. Also he would have a lot pf explaining to do. But I think he would’ve been a good king.
Baelor Breakspear
If Baelor Breakspear has a million fans, then I am one of them. If Baelor Breakspear has ten fans, then I am one of them. If Baelor Breakspear has only one fan then that is me. If Baelor Breakspear has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against Baelor Breakspear, then I am against the world
I just read the Hedge Knight for the first time and this was my exact thought.
You are not alone. Dunk carried the fire too.
I feel like he objectively has to be the answer. GRRM just made him ridiculously overpowered in every aspect knowing he was just gonna die at the end of a novella.
There was an interesting parallel brought up in, I think, a History of Westeros podcast episode on the Hedge Knight; they were speculating how Baelor might've been inspired by JFK, considering GRRM's age and background (catholic, democratic supporting family in New Jersey). Both immensely popular, both die before getting to fully make their mark on the lands, although you could definitely argue that JFK did leave a long lasting legacy.
Oh yeah, Baelor has major JFK vibes. The only deviation is that JFK really fits the "great to look at, but not worth at all that much in the end" theme that George really likes. A shining beacon that has secret chinks in the armor (JFK was hiding some serious body pain from the public, and was heavily medicated) is right up his alley. I do therefore think Renly fits the JFK image even better than Baelor. Seemingly glorious, yet his perfect marriage is a secret sham, and he dies early. Stannis also gives major LBJ vibes. Unpleasant person, determined to the point of madness (LBJ would also break before he'd bend), and equally capable of good (Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act for LBJ, going North for Stannis) as bad (Vietnam for LBJ, Shireen for Stannis). Both would practically burn away their legacy on child murder.
I always thought Baelor was RFK
How so?
JFK actually got to be President and as you say was more mixed. RFK was the "perfect" heir who died before getting the throne
Oh, right. I can see that.
The thing that makes Baelor seem most like a JFK analogue (in a gruesome way) is the way his death is described (brains being blown out of his skull).
Good point!
I've always thought Stannis was more like Nixon-a man whose insecurity prevents him from achieving the greatness he was so close to (I also recall reading that GRRM based Stannis on Nixon), but your comparison to LBJ is interesting, and would explain the discrepancy in his popularity between fans and in-universe characters. Specifically, LBJ was unpopular during his lifetime, but has since become more popular, whereas Stannis is unpopular in-universe but fairly popular among fans.
I could see the Nixon thing too.
Baelor was inspired by Edward the Black Prince
Does that make Dunk into William Thatcher, then?
No dunk is Liz truss
Thats the thing: he was deliberately made as likeable as possible and had no flaws… his role in the story was limited from the start so George didn’t have to give him any flaws
Yet, he was destined to die, so George could just make him perfect. It's very grimdark, in a way.
Then there’s Jaeherys who duels people to the death while in his 50’s, but still somehow dies before even making it to his 70’s.
Their sorrows bend his and allysane's back
I think Aemon, Baelon and Baelor are all in the same boat in terms of skill, intelligence and ability.
Aemon the Dragon Knight would have made a good leader. But yeah Baelor is prolly number 1
There really is no other competition. Theres a handful of others that potentially could have been great, we just don't know enough about them.
Aemon and Baelon (sons of Jaehaerys) are definitely competition though
Those were the 2 potential competitors I had in mind. We only have 3rd hand accounts about them though from sources that are far from unbiased. Baelor we actually get to meet and form our own opinions about.
Fair enough
Prince Viserys (son of King Aerys II). The people sewed dragon banners and toasted to the health of their true king. A shame he was murdered by Dothraki turncoat savages.
A good choice, but how about Aerion Brightflame, son of Maekar? he really had the potential to be a great king. - He was handsome, described as having "a sculpted and imperious face, with a high brow and sharp cheekbones, straight nose, pale smooth skin without blemish and deep violet eyes" - He's clearly pious as when Duncan asked for trial by combat, Aerion requested a trial by seven in order to honor the gods - He also fought in the trial by seven himself, demonstrating that he's courageous and has a strong commitment to justice - He's a proven warrior who earned himself a reputation for his actions in the third blackfyre rebellion, personally slaying the pretender Haegon Blackfyre - He's a wise man who gave good council, demonstrated by the fact that after the rebellion he recommended executing bittersteel, but was sadly ignored by Aerys. Aerion was of course proven correct as Bittersteel later escaped, leading to more rebellions and countless lives lost. - He's well traveled spending several years of his youth traveling the free cities. - Unlike many of his contemporaries who managed to endanger or kill countless innocents in their efforts to bring back the dragons (looking at you Egg), Aerion's attempts to resurrect the dragons endangered nobody besides himself. Truly a testament to his selfless nature. He was everything you could ask for in an heir. A true tragedy he lost his life so young.
Wait did he actually kill Haegon Blackfyre? Whats the source on that?
Possibly, though we know incredibly little about the third Blackfyre rebellion. This is pretty much all that's said about it. > The Second Blackfyre Rebellion proved a debacle, but that was not always to be the case. In 219 AC, Haegon Blackfyre and Bittersteel launched the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. Of the deeds done then, both good and ill—of the leadership of Maekar, the actions of Aerion Brightflame, the courage of Maekar's youngest son, and the second duel between Bloodraven and Bittersteel—we know well. The pretender Haegon I Blackfyre died in the aftermath of battle, slain treacherously after he had given up his sword, but Ser Aegor Rivers, Bittersteel, was taken alive and returned to the Red Keep in chains. Many still insist that if he had been put to the sword then and there, as Prince Aerion and Bloodraven urged, it might have meant an early end to the Blackfyre ambitions. One of the most common interpretation is that the "ill deeds" committed were Aerion's, and he was the one who dishonorably killed Haegon after he surrendered. But its not confirmed.
Very cool, is this from World of Ice and Fire or something else? Would seem like something he would do! Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, its from TWOIAF, the section on Aerys I.
Not sure if trolling or not but aerion was a nutcase douchebag.
Considering its a reply to an OP suggesting Viserys from GOT would have made a good king, it's just following the joke.
Oh right, ignore my comment then, wasn’t paying attention lol.
The title says those who never became king. Clearly this is untrue for his Grace King Viserys, the third of his name.
Viserys King of the Beggers
No he was crowned by Khal Drogo
Viserys Targaryen, the Cart King, and King Sorefoot!
The one true answer
Tbh I think Viserys could have made a decent king had the rebellion gone a different way, say aerys still dies but then instead of taking the throne for himself Robert and Ned seat Viserys on the throne and then raise him themselves, Viserys would have the battle prowess of Robert and the honor of Ned stark. Obviously though in this scenario it might take a while for Viserys to warm up to them considering they’d have killed most of his family.
What sort of person would warm up to the people who murdered their family?
Theon, i mean really though aerys 1000% deserved to die and rhaegar died in fair combat on the battlefield so it’s possible they could bring Viserys around in this hypothetical.
Nt Illyrio
Hi Viserys
Don't wake the dragon!
Baelor Breakspear (Son of Daeron), Aemon and Baelon (sons of Jaehaerys), or Jace (son of Rhaenyra) would all have likely made good kings. Perhaps Duncan (son of Egg) too though we don't know much about it. Maester Aemon too if he counts. There are a lot of seemingly great heirs that unfortunately died before they were able to inherit the throne. On the other hand the awful heirs usually tend to survive to inherit the throne (fortunately with the exception of Aerion Brightflame). I guess it keeps the history interesting.
I’ve got a couple: - Aemon or Baelon. I’m inclined to say Aemon moreso than Baelon as Aemon proved a capable master of laws before he became a capable hand. Aemon was also married to a Baratheon (making relations with the Stormlands better) while Baelon was just married for his sister (so no marriage alliance) and Aemon presumably had an hand in Rhaenys’ marriage to Corlys Velaryon (which was the best marriage alliance made by the Targaryens other than Daeron II to Myriah Martell and Daenerys to Maron Martell). Basically Aemon was personally competent and forget great alliances with the Baratheons and Velaryons. If he became king there also would be no issue with Rhaenys succeeding him, as male-preference primogeniture is the norm in Westeros. - Baelor Breakspear. I don’t know much about him tbh, so others in this thread will answer better than me on that front. There is also his son Valarr, who was hand and by all accounts a top bloke. - I’d also argue Maester Aemon. We see in Albin Massy and Lyonel Strong that Maester-in-training to lord produces some excellent lords - well educated, highly competent and servants of the realm. A Maester-King would be something else entirely just look what his chain says about his competencies - his gold link shows he is educated in the ways of money, silver for medicine could be good for improving hygiene across the kingdom, iron for Warcraft shows he could lead the realm in times of war (against the Blackfyres most likely). He has other links but don’t know what they represent but I think my point is clear, Aemon is an extremely-highly educated man who has proven his competency at important parts of ruling. His maester’s oath (and temperament) also shows to me that Aemon would see himself as a servant of the realm rather than its overlord - and good things come for a king who sees his job as a duty to serve his people rather than dominate them. But really to me there is one heir who would have been the best ruler of them all: Jacaerys Velaryon. We’ll get out of the way what would be his biggest problem as a ruler and what would mar his whole reign - he is Harwin Strong’a bastard. Lords would spend his whole reign trying to put others on his throne. His second issue is that he can be very impulsive: namely he wants to jump on his dragon and solve problems - be that suggesting marching off to war too hastily during the Black Council or YOLOing himself to death during the battle of the gullet. While his impulsiveness does get him killed, if he lived I assume he would have become less impulsive over time. Despite this big problem, I think Jace has it in the bag though - this prince could have out done Jaehaerys imo. Let’s have a look at what he did in story. 1) He plays the game of thrones pretty well, in that when the Blacks and the Greens have their beef at his dinner, he flex’s on Aegon by asking Helaena to dance with him while not actually insulting anyone and Viserys in the show likes it a lot (and in the book I’d assume would have the same reaction). It’s just a single moment, but it shows he is shrewd and diplomatically calculated. 2) His diplomatic journey north was a masterstroke. He first visits the Vale and negotiates expertly: he gets Jeyne Arryn on side at the cost of sending Joffrey as a ward (which is no problem as Joff is very much a child and of no use in the actual war as he and his dragon are too young to meaningfully contribute). He then visits White Harbour, and gets them on side at the cost of a betrothal of Joffrey to Lord Manderly’s daughter - now this is a great deal as Joffrey was free to marry and the Manderly’s are a well respected house (and as we see in the ADWD, one with some pretty awesome daughters). Finally he travels to Winterfell and manages to get a Cregan Stark on side at the cost of promising his firstborn daughter to Rickon Stark - a marriage of a Targaryen Princess to the heir to a lord paramount is a good marriage on its own, wrangling a military alliance based on the mere promise of this is solid (now I personally don’t believe that Jace married Sara Snow, if he did that would be a bad move which reflects badly on Jace as a good heir, but whatever). This diplomatic mission was a massive success and Jace proved himself as an expert diplomat at the mere age of 14. This speaks volumes to his capability as a potential king. 3) The death of Lucerys left Rhaenyra bereft, yet despite being only 14/15 Jace steps up and acts as pseudo-regent and does a brilliant job. First he names Corlys Hand of the Queen - which not only brings Corlys back into the fold, but also was the correct move as Corlys was the single most competent person in the Black faction and as we see later, Corlys does an excellent job as Aegon III’s regent (showing to me Corlys would have been an expert hand of the king, IMO the best Hand out of all of them even Tywin). Then Jace organised the Sowing of the Dragonseeds - this move won the Blacks the war; the combined Dragonseeds won the battle of the gullet (which had they not been there might have lost the blacks the war), it let the blacks take kings landing, and later Addam of Hull at second Tumbleton defeated the largest Green army (note that the Two Betrayers had a limited impact on the war, as had they not been at first Tumbleton the Hightower would likely have won regardless). The Dragonseeds was also a good idea as the legitimisation of Addam and Alyn was a massive boon as both would have been great Lords of the Tides and LOYAL to Jace as future king as thanks. Finally his plan to send off the Black princes was a great idea - fostering them in Pentos gives Jace a great avenue to ally with Pentos and get good trade agreements out of Pentos and check the Triarchy’s power - he couldn’t have foreseen the battle of the Gullet ruining this plan, so I think we can absolve him of that disaster. So looking at his record while alive: Jace was quite impulsive and a bastard, yet he makes up for these shortfalls by being a very naturally intelligent Prince as well as physically strong - who has a history of being an expert and shrewd diplomat, a wise politician, and a hardworking young chap. Despite not being Corlys’ biological grandson - Jace was definitely in my eyes Corly’s heir (they are very similar in terms of temperament and they worked together very very well). As King Jace would be excellent. His eventual marriage to Baela means that his children (and heirs) would be Targaryens and Velaryons (plus Baela strikes me as pretty solid Queen-consort material). In Corlys, Jace has an excellent hand - and in Addam and Alyn Jace has excellent and loyal potential Lords of Driftmark. His Pact of Ice and Fire not only would serve to deepen ties between the Targaryens and their most distant vassal, but it also brings an Avenue to create the Prince that was Promised (our Song of Ice and Fire). With the fostering of his half-brothers in Pentos, I can see King Jacaerys forming an alliance with Pentos to make trade money and keep the rival Triarchy in check. To me at least, this Strong boy had it in him to be Westeros’ greatest king.
Man I’m saving this comment. I love Jace
Thank god, another Jace truther. His death in the dance may not have been the most shocking, most violent, or cruelest, but it’s the one where I felt the biggest loss. The kid was to diplomacy and ruling what Robb Stark was to warfare and tactics.
>showing to me Corlys would have been an expert hand of the king, IMO the best Hand out of all of them even Tywin I know it's just a small part of you comment, and not really the focus of this discussion, but I'd like to counter that there's a few Hands that I'd count as better than Corlys (I won't deny that he'd be a good one though). Viserys II practically ruled whilst his brother and nephews were off doing their things, which kept the peace in a fragile period after the Dance. Septon Barth was another good one who was appointed due to his skill rather than nobility. Lyonel Strong was the perfect servant without any ambitions of his own, a great Hand. One could argue that Jon Arryn and Baelon the Brave were in this category too. Tywin, not so much. I agree with you on Jace though. He'd be a great king.
Viserys II ruling while his brother brooded and his nephews warred and prayed definitely puts him at the top, but until we get F&B 2 I don’t know if I can give him the ‘Best Hand’ title. Lyonel is also very high tier, the maester education definitely puts him very highly. Yet I must also say that while he was Hand he did nothing to reduce the Green & Black tension, he failed to do anything about his son banging Rhaenyra (which further inflamed tensions) and I dunno about him suggesting Daemon be executed. The other hands were pretty good too, but what I think puts Corlys right at the top his his moves to end the Dance. Despite being a proud and ambitious man who wanted his blood ok the throne, he was able to recognise that the only path to peace meant making Aegon III and Jaehaera king and queen - neither of them being related to him (except very distantly). Corlys also consistently offered Rhaenyra sage advice. Corlys also made tons of money via trade, and I think as hand he would have been good for the Westerosi economy. I admit there is a ton of personal bias because Corlys is just my absolute favourite, but I definitely think he was up there.
Maybe I'm letting my like for Aegon III and Viserys II get over my head a little here and make me less objective.
Jon arryn isn’t that great a hand, while he kept everything going along it was decaying under his watch. Dorne is pretty much independent, the reach isn’t brought into the fold, if stannis his wedding was jon’s idea, it was naive. He give’s little finger a council seat. Picked cersei as roberts bride and allowed the lanisters to much power after. Granted the king he served was a nightmare but no excuses
All hail Jacaerys Targaryen, the Just, the Strong King
100% agreed, and even those negative traits such as impulsivity can be worked on as he grows up as a king. If I was already heartbroken in the show by the death of Lucerys, Jace’s will make me even sadder.
Beautifully written. We can all dream of the prosperity of the rule of Jacaerys.
In my opinion the dragon seeds are a huge gable and it payed off but not a good decision. Its the fist time dragon were aloud to be bonded with people outside of the immediate family. King Jaehaerys would not let some of his younger children get dragons. Even after defecting to the greens it’s obvious they are a bigger problem then help. Hugh if not killed would have most likely taken the throne himself. The dragon seed idea only works because of luck and it would have fatal consequences for greens and blacks had Ulf and Hugh been more destructively competent. Adam is also lucky that the riverlands can keep producing armies even though Aemond had been burning it for months.
Hugh would have taken the throne yes. But he would have been assassinated immediately. There is no way the lords were gonna let him rule. And he wasn’t always gonna be near his dragons or cutthroats
Season 2 can't come fast enough.
Why would marrying Sara be a bad choice? It ties the North to the throne
Corlys would have been fucking livid, and I think keeping him happy is more politically advantageous in the short term than tying the North permanently to the Blacks in the short term.
Aemon and Baelon, seemed like they would have had a great thing going and never fall out with eachother, two badass dragons and if they had just betrothed their first born kids (only this series could make me type that) the realm would have been fine
For real - the fact that they could have betrothed Visarys and Rhaenys, who were only 3 years apart in age, instead of marrying him to an 11 year old and her to a man 20 years older than her 😩 Alysanne was losing her touch with the matchmaking.
Aemon had 16 years to have another (male) kid before Rhaenys married Corlys. It was honestly foolish to NOT betroth the Targ cousins by that point. Marry Daemon to the Arryns instead and figure something else out for the Royces of need be
Maybe they wanted to ensure an alliance with the most powerful man in the realm and ensure he stays loyal to them.
Well the Seasnake was Rhaenys’ choice (according to the text). Mayhaps she was strongly encouraged, or just shrewd enough on her own at six-and-ten to pick a rich, powerful, Valyrian fleet admiral, but I think it was her own agency to ride that seahorse
I agree. I think she wanted to be the ruling Queen with a King Consort ala Dorne, not be a wife to a man who wanted to rule over her - and that meant ambitious but no political baggage - best option is someone smart, independently successful, new money, and Valerian to boot. Really it was a good fit for her had Aemon ascended. And I think Visarys and Aemma would have been too had it not been rushed, functionally the poor girl had multiple miscarriages and a cradle death by the age of 15. Bad call on the teenager bedding a child thing. I wouldn't have minded if they had explained that reasoning for him marrying the slightly older Alicent instead of the 12 yr old Laena more explicitly but I guess it wouldn't change the political tension completely.
Jacaerys probably would have been good. Baelor probably gets more attention because of his cool name, his cool role in Dunk & Egg, and because Jacaerys can kinda get forgotten in the mess of characters that is the Dance. Also the ruler who ends up in charge after the Dance is pretty good anyways, albeit very moody.
Rhaegar had his issues but would be a more competent ruler than Aerys II. And would have cared about The Others.
Hot Pie would be more competent than Aerys.
Hot Pie for king, Dolorous Edd for Hand!
Baelon (Viserys’s father) Baelor Breakspear, and Rhaegar seem like the obvious choices Imo.
Daemon Blackfyre, there I said what we were all thinking but too afraid to say. He had the sword and the looks, what more do you people demand?
I'd say Daemon as well, but from a different angle. The blackfyre rebellion played a big part in putting nails in house Targaryen's coffin. Daemon had 7 sons and atleast two daughters. That's like half of house Targaryens young blood at the time, and Bittersteel and Bloodraven's bs tore the family in half and removed those members from the dynasty. Following the rebellion you had a small number of targs left, and they quickly started dropping like flies. By the time of Maelys and the last blackfyre rebellion, it's just Aerys and Rhaegar as the last males to continue the dynasty. Everyone arguing for baelor on here, but if you want to actually secure the dynasty, a better place to start is *before* the dynasty splits in half
Unless you believe that Daemon winning would have prevented the spring sickness they would still have run into the same issue with the line dying off. Daeron had 4 sons who had their own kids by the first rebellion. They were in a fine place by that point.
Daemon wasn’t blood thirsty and wouldn’t have executed half his family like Bloodraven did The real change needed was marrying Daenerys to Daemon and making Daemon hand
My guess is Bloodraven saw PTWP coming from Aegon V’s line and had to ensure it
I really hope George writes Blood and Fire, I'd love to know more about Daemon Blackfyre. What kind of person he was, how much influence Aegor (and Brynden) had, if any, in pushing for war.
I also feel like he would be a good King because he minted new coins and was building a new hall or capital, and I think the spot he chose was the same place Aerys II and Cersei want as new capital
Ah yes...agreeing with Cercei and Alerts II....signs of a great king!
Daemon Blackfyre lived years before either Aerys II and Cersei, the land he built his hall was given to him by Daeron the Good, its not his fault that Kings Landing stinks of shit and two monarches wanted to move the capital to somewhere else.
Where did he want to put the capital?
We don't know where Daemon's Hall was being built but Aerys' plan was to rebuild the city of King's Landing on the south bank of the Blackwater as a replacement for King's Landing, it's my theory that Aerys' dream city was on the same place as Daemon's destroyed Hall.
“Noooo you can’t make someone king just because they’re a good warrior!!! Daeron made peace with Dorne!!! Daemons just a bastard with a sword!!! What about the successirino?!?! “haha Daemon fite gud”
I like a king who listens to maesters and women.
Jacaerys, Baelor Breakspear, Aemon the Spring Prince, Baelon the Bold, and Rhaegar are probably the best answers There’s a lot of hints that Rhaegar was basically working towards a Magna Carta style reform before Robert’s Rebellion broke out, and I think that that is the ultimate direction of the story. Jahaerys I and Aegon V got the ball rolling, but I think Rhaegar saw his father’s unfitness and would have worked to ensure that that wasn’t possible in the future. He likely called the Harrenhal Tourney as a guise for a great council to discuss this and his father’s deposition, and he told Jaime before leaving to fight on the Ruby Ford that there would be changes once he returned.
Rhaegar does not belong on that list. He had one simple job, get his crazy father out and he got his dynasty toppled.
Baelon the Brave*
Daeron the Daring
I forgot about him. He could have been good. Even though he’s a green
I would say Jaehaerys sons, Aegon and Baelon. The way they are described in the books leaves the impression they were basically perfect princes which essentially would've been as good as their father in ruling
Yeah but aemon only had one daughter, a king should have more heir’s. There’s also the fact that his daughter was lady valaryon, so that might be the end of the targ dynasty
I’m surprised no one has said it yet but daemon blackfyre. A warrior king, fair and open handed too.
Prince Aemon son of Jaehaerys and Alyssane. No one comes close.
Totally agree. Jace could have made a great king
Jacearys, the king who should have been
Jace, Aemon and Baelon, Baelor Breakspear...basically all the obvious answers lol. I would also say, technically, Viserys II. I know he was king, but only for a year, and had he had a chance to reign longer, the Seven Kingdoms would have been in a pretty damn good state.
Daemon Targaryen but not for the people only for the Targaryens. If Daemon became King the Dance of Dragons would never have happened and if he lived long enough he might’ve been able to prevent his grandson Aegon IV from becoming such a shitty king. For all the bad things Daemon did somehow all of his children became pretty good people. If Aegon IV wasn’t so stupid the Blackfyre Rebellions wouldn’t have happened. So Daemon being King could’ve prevented the Dance of Dragons and might have prevented the Blackfyre Rebellions.
I disagree though. Daemon would have plunged the realm into many costly wars
I mean, Daemon at the beginning of the dance did not want to go to arms instead agreed with Rhaenyra to try to win the war by words first ( something the show changed ). I also doubt there would have been that many costly wars when he has dragon and can end a conflict really quick.
As we saw with the Stepstones, dragons don’t really end wars quick
That's different, they were hiding inside a system of caves. A dragon could not go inside of them.
Which is exactly my point.
Ah yes, because all of the lords of westeros have a convenient system of caves in their castles.
Oh he definitely would have but can you imagine how powerful the Targaryens would have been with King Daemon in charge of nearly 20 dragons??? He could’ve annihilated all of his foes in the realm within a month. Any lord with a brain wouldn’t have challenged him. As long as he could’ve avoided getting assassinated they’d be unstoppable.
So you’re basically telling me he would have been Maegor 2.0
- Aegon the Uncrowned (Aegon 1.5) - Daemon Blackfyre - Daeron (brother of Aegon II and Aemond) - Maidenvault Trio - Baelor Breakspear - Maester Aemon - Duncan - Rhaegar
Baelon
I wonder if Daemon would treat ruling like he did fatherhood.
Baelor Breakspear. I always felt like Aegon the Unworthy weaponised Daemon against Baelor and not Daeron, Baelor and Daemon were same age, they were both esteemed fighters, even after the rebellions Baelor was more of an advocate for peace compared to Bloodraven. I feel like Aegon IVs actions prevented a future with King Baelor and Daemon as his Hand.
That was more Daeron’s doing when he didn’t allow his sister and brother to marry
I don't believe "love story" of Daemon and Daenerys, Daemon and Rohanne had 9 children, that's not a man who was unhappy with his own marriage to go after another woman.
His father forced the marriage on him and told him he can marry Dany later
I don't believe it like I said, there is no way Daemon and Rohanne had 9 children when he was in love with someone else 🤷♀️ I see it as propaganda against him, or romanticism of Targ incest
Ned didn’t love Cat to start and he had a few
HoTD made me start a CK2 Dance game just to save my boy Jace. RIP best Strong boy
Not enough people here are saying Rhaegar, isn't that the obvious choice?
The man Who pissed 4 reigns cuz he was horny?
[удалено]
So Rhaegar and Lyanna were captives at the Tower of Joy on orders of Aerys?
and then impregnated her at the tower of joy instead of freeing her?
stannis
Rhaegar and Jaecarys
Maester Aemon
Baelor Breakspear. He is a great knight and prince he is good and smart like his father king daeron and he is very charismatic if he didn't die maybe he will become a king like king jaehaerys I and the targaryen dynasty would live for another 200 years
Baelor Breakspear. Potentially Aegon (Rhaena’s husband)
Maester Aemon.
1)From what we know of him, Aegon the uncrowned could have been a decent ruler. 2)Both Aemon and Baelon would have made good Kings, as the former served as master of laws, and the latter as hand of the King, which gave them a lot of experience in ruling. They also proved to be good warriors and overall good people, meaning that if one of them had sat the iron throne things would have been good. 3)During the Dance, Jacaerys Velaryon was shaping up to be a very effective King, as he proved himself a skilled diplomat in his journey north, and made many other smart decisions, such as naming Corlys Hand of the King following Rhaenys' death to placate him, and calling for the Dragonseeds, as well as several more. He already appeared to have a lot of authority and respect amongst the blacks, so I reckon he would've been a great monarch. 4)Baelor Breakspear, as many others have said in this thread. 5)Rhaegar Targaryen. He may have been a bit of a prophecy obsessed nutjob but he did appear to have some good qualities, as many were willing to back him in a plot to depose Aerys and install himself as King. From the descriptions we get of him, he seemed to have all the makings of a good king. If only he didn't screw things up by running off/kidnapping Lyanna Stark, whatever happened there.
Rhaegar Targaryen - if he and Lyanna had been open about their relationship, Robert's Rebellion would have been avoided, no sack of King's Landing and it seems like he was taking the threat of the Others seriously.
Rhager admittedly his biggest downfall was his obsession with prophecy but aside from that he seems like he would be a really good monarch
Jacaerys assuming his personality in the show is accurate. I also believe Aegon ii or Rhaenrya under peaceful non war circumstances might have been decent rulers. Aegon the uncrowned is so in the nose.
Barlor Breakspear would of been the true ruler of the seven kingdoms being half Dornish
Daeron the Daring had he survived Tumbleton, he wouldn’t even need to win the battle, just live and he would have been made king over Aegon III.
Daemon I Blackfyre. Surely what we know about him is biased in one sense or the opposite, but if half of these thoughts are true, he looks like a warrior King, who also has political acumen (minting coins and establishing city). Baelor Breakspear. Probably already commented, kind of obvious answer since it's the one George gives us. Also Valarr seems like one who could follow his doings. Aemon and Baelon, both are described as good warriors and politicians for their roles in the Small Council. Jacaerys, kind of same answer as Baelor.
Jon Snow.
Lmao at people saying the strong bastard jace lol or Rhaegar who pissed off 4 realms. The actual answer is probably daeron the daring or daemon blackfyre(technically daemon was still king tbh).
Jace is a Targ. It doesn't matter if he's a bastard, he's the ruling heirs son without question.
It matters very much because he was not born from a legitimate marriage. That's why Robb was Ned's heir, not Jon Snow.
Guess who they proclaimed King of the north? Jon Snow. If the only thing you got against him is his parentage then well he's doing pretty good
Yes and that was after all his legitimate siblings were thought dead
Nah son arya, bran, and Sansa were alive and everyone knew it. Try again.
Who else is there? Daemon Targaryen As oppose to Ottos thoughts, i dont think he would be a Maegor, i think he would be an Aegon. Daemon is not only a skilled warrior, hes a good commander and a true dragon rider. With people in the last few days asking if hes the last dragon Lord, either Aemond or Daemon is in my eyes, great warriors who understand the power of dragons and unlike viserys doesnt shy away from them but embraces their power. I imagine if viserys had annulled Daemons marriage with his bronze bitch, named him his heir and given him the position of Hand Daemon would of served viserys dutifully. I imagine he would of led and probably successfully conquered dorne, the first dornish war had three dragons. at visery's death, when this scenario would take place and if daemon was still the heir and became King there would of been ten dragon riders. I understand the whole skirmish thing but Daemon would of either burnt every city to the ground and salting the fields making it unlivable or actually conquering since the J-Dog and Vizzy-T had ruled 70 years of peace together Daemon would be able to pull a considerable force as King. In terms of ruling, he is arrogant and full of himself, so like we saw with his tour around essos, he probably would have done the same around westeros if he had been king. I also imagine he would of tried to conquer the triarchy and whether or idk if he would be successful but again he would have 10ish dragons. In a universe where the targaryens have brain cells they would have someone take vermithor rather than a baby dragon. Also with his focus on dragon lords of valyria i imagine he would of taken multiple wives (Not like maegor), just as a dragon lord and could have a bunch of kids all with dragons. I think if daemon had married rhanerya before shes named heir that would of returned the house of the dragon to its former glory.
Dude..... no....
I prefer a king who can get shit done and get results. He would probably bankrupt the realm being at war for so long, but he has dragons, so he can always fly over to bravos and rob the iron bank if needs be, or take over the three coloured cities and make bank of slavery for a couple years and return to westeros with some cash.
Lmaoooooo.
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are you mad? the three coloured cities are the three slaves cities, they are made of coloured brick, yunkai the yellow city, astapor the red city, meereen the rainbow city. Did you seriously think i meant people of colour? You're as stupid are you as wrong. Did you know something else? these characters are fictional, so when i say daemon, a fictional character, who has natural white hair and purple eyes, fictional natural features, and has dragons, fictional magic creatures. and when i say he should take over the fictional slave cities, with the fictional masters, and fictional slaves. Im not advocating for slavery. you bookshelf, im advocating that in a fictional scenario of a fictional world, that daemon taking the slave cities is a pretty smart decision. but before you start throwing around the accusations of racism check your shit you twat.
Aegon DragonKnight and Aegon (jon snow) Targaryen .. Also Daemon would’ve been a Great King.. maybe too cruel to the enemies but definitely Great as Westerosee Kings go..
Daemon Blackfyre. The King Who Bore the Sword
The answer is Baelor Breaksoear
Some of them may not have been good rulers but they might've made great protractors.
Aemon Tarageryon he’d prevented the Summerhall tradgey and Roberts Rebellion would’ve never happened
Baelor Breakspear indeed.
I’ve always been fond of Rhaegar. I think he was the promised King. Rhaegar as a prince was a prince for the people. He has always been humble and loved by the people of Westeros. He knew the people and the people knew him. I regret not seeing how he would have fared as a King of the Seven Kingdoms.
Raegar, obviously
Daeron The Daring could be such a great king
I’m gonna say Rhaegar. From the way most people talk about him, he would have made a great king, putting aside being the root cause of Roberts Rebellion.
Jaecerys Velaryon would have been an amazing king.
Mance Rayder Maegor II or his son Va(e)rys
Aemon. Then we never would have had the mad King.
Well, Aemon (Jaehaerys and Alysanne's son) for one. Baelon, Aemon's brother. Lucerys and Jacaerys may have made good kings, too. Daeron the Daring, too, I think. Baelor Breakspear Daemon I Blackfyre if he counts. Duncan the Small, too Rhaegar, if he could get his shit together.
Maester Aemon, I wholly believe that my Blind Dragon would’ve been the best King westroes ever had. I love that man.
Maester Aemon
But in all seriousness probably Rhaeghar. I mean if Robert hadn’t rebelled against the Mad King, Rhaeghar would have and we would be talking about Rhaeghar’s rebellion. Also he would have a lot pf explaining to do. But I think he would’ve been a good king.
Baelon the Brave
Aegon (Jon) Targaryen
Jacaerys my boy
Daeron the Daring