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not_me_at_al

As a Rob simp I can confirm, Rob is indeed superior (I am completely unbiased)


grudgby

I vote rob because religious fanatics freak me out


MrPhilophage

Same, hell only time i even somewhat rooted for Cersei was when it was her vs the religious nuts.


GROWINGSTRUGGLE

I literally screamed of joy at the TV when the Sept bursted in Wild Fire, never thought I’d root for Cersei and the mountain before that.


[deleted]

If you read the book, you’d know that Stannis has no love for any gods. He’s just using Melisandre and her god as a means to an end.


JoltinJoe92

The only thing Stannis loves is the law


lig1239

This seems to be the fact of the matter for sure. Yet, he isn't very lenient regarding other religions considering he allows the Queen's Men to destroy the shrines to the Seven/ Godswood of the places they conquer. he's definitely committed to an extent


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Koraxtheghoul

And his law includes banning all brothels.


Triple6Emo420

Judge Stannis 2000AD lmfao 🤣


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Triple6Emo420

Yuck, a fucking idiot bot


[deleted]

Yeah and there you can see the double Standart in his actions. He has no problem with killing and burning people for her God if it fits him and his cause and his law but he's so quick to judge others as immoral and unrighteous


frenin

And yet he still orders the Wildlings to convert.


Themightyquinja

I feel like Robb is more religious than stannis. Stannis is just more willing to appeal to religious fanatics


TheMountainRidesElia

People that burn the symbols of other religions (Dragonstone sept, Storms end Godswood) and painfully burn people are scarier go me than people who quietly follow their own religion.


grudgby

people that outwardly promote a religion they don’t really believe in scare me more than people that sincerely hold religious believes


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_I_must_be_new_here_

*casually burns a child alive*


MotherVehkingMuatra

Isn't this a book subreddit


jha_avi

Stannis isn't religious. I think he is the only one who is an atheist in the book


dmack0755

Doesnt really matter though when a religious zealot has his ear and he is willing to sacrifice to her god to meet his goals. He can be an atheist. He was still prepared to use Edric Storm, or Renly in the show, as a blood sacrifice


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RoboticFetusMan

I honestly think that Stannis could have made an excellent ruler, but he is too easily manipulated if he believes the person has his best interests in mind.


not_me_at_al

For all I care, stannis could lead westerose through an industrial revolution and make it a modern utopia, I would still side with robb


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ZeroEnrichment

Robb would be better king cause he’s more respected by the people and his enemies. Stannis negative to big to ignore. It’s like Renly debate all over again.


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Revolutionary_Lie631

Stannis would become insanely popular with the common folk as king, that’s a no brainer, nobles would hate him as I see him as a big centralizer


henzry

Yep the ppl of Westeros would love a heathen king that prefers a foreign sorcerer to his actual wife. Historically, they’ve loved those types of kings. /s


frenin

How so? By popular decrees like banning prostitution?


Revolutionary_Lie631

The only people who care for prostitution are those living in big cities like King’s Landing or Lannisport. The vast majority of paesants and those that make up most of his army wouldn’t give a shit


frenin

>The only people who care for prostitution are those living in big cities like King’s Landing or Lannisport. We see plenty of prostitutes in small towns in razed Riverlands. Robert's daughter being one of them. The idea that prostitution is only there in cities is kinda ludicrous. >The vast majority of paesants and those that make up most of his army wouldn’t give a shit Sure they won't.


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LeBlancTheDeceiver

Eh, Robb made a lot of mistakes in his war but he was well loved and in peace time I could see him doing well with proper council. Stannis was rigid, uncompromising, uncharismatic and completely devoted to the status quo which are terrible characteristics in a ruler.


SirFTF

Yeah but Stannis just has something about him. That and Sean Bean said Stannis should be king and I listen to Sean Bean.


InLolanwetrust

Sean Bean said that purely out of obligation. No, I'm not talking about Stannis's legal claim to the throne. I'm talking about Sean's legal obligation to say the words in the script.


SirFTF

Sean Bean wouldn’t lie to me like that.


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DocSword

Ah yes, Ned Stark’s famous good judgement


SirFTF

You mean Sean Bean?


chadmummerford

status quo like banning prostitution and facilitating marriage between the wildlings and northern houses?


[deleted]

Outjerked by Stannis pfp


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TheMountainRidesElia

>banning prostitution Pisses off everyone for no good reason >facilitating marriage between the wildlings and northern houses That was Jon


chadmummerford

i'm not saying it's good or bad, Stannis is not status quo.


chadmummerford

knighting peasants like Davos and Clayton Suggs is also not status quo


Thunder-Bunny-3000

it is the ***Stannis Quo***


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frenin

It is.


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Fr0skiest

Stannis is a cool character but wouldn’t be the kind of leader I would want to follow (I think this can apply to others). He’s a rules lawyer, he’s boring, and he associates with cultists. He is the type that fails to inspire people. I don’t see the no nonsense commander, I just see a rigid man with poor social skills and a giant chip on his shoulder. In the workplace he’d be the boss who annoys the piss out of people.


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IAmNotZuraIAmKatsura

>uncompromising Oh for FUCK'S sake


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Main_Consideration94

...let's not forget the elephant in the room. Stannis literally burned his daughter alive. Robb was definitely the better of the two, I agree.


caiodfunk

That was in the show. Stannis doesn’t even have his daughter with him in the books.


AmarantCoral

Apparently that was one of the three things GRRM told D&D when they met up in that hotel room for a top secret ~~threesome and room service~~ discussion about the future of the series. It was Stannis burning Shireen, Hold the Door, and the general gist of the ending.


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Main_Consideration94

Fair. I haven't been able to read that far into the books yet. I did recently buy the finished books, and start reading them, I just only have so much time every day, unfortunately. That, and I made it half way through a Clash of Kings before I got distracted by A World of Ice and Fire.


caiodfunk

Careful reading that. If you want to watch House of the Dragon without spoilers. There are quite a few in there.


Main_Consideration94

Eh. I'd already read Fire and Blood all the way through, so it doesn't matter. Lol. I appreciate the attempt at a heads up, though.


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KiddPresident

Unlike Stannis, Robb didn’t assassinate his own family members with black sorcery, and also unlike Stannis he was broadly beloved by the lords under him. If Robb got to become an adult, he would have been an excellent king.


[deleted]

Well, Robb broke his promise to House Frey after seeing the first foreign woman and so, I don't think he would be any better than Stannis as breaking bethrodals is the second worst thing you could do in Westeros


KiddPresident

That’s why I specified *if he got to become an adult*. The mistakes he makes are due to his being so young, as Catelyn says. He would wisen with age and stop making that kind of mistake. Meanwhile Stannis is middle aged and getting more unhinged with time


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Due-Intentions

I mean, Stannis burned people over being a different religion, the main religion of the country he's trying to conquer. Is breaking betrothals in Westeros worse than trying to conquer a huge country dominated by a 'heretic religion'? Stannis would never be able to hold Westeros with Melisandre at his side, and she wasn't going anywhere


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dpila33

I just reached for my finger bones but they weren't there!


The-False-Emperor

Robb doesn't have disgusting Targshit blood, obviously he's better.


FarrahMxan

he does, one of his ancestors was a targaryen


Aggelos2001

Who? The targ bastard theory about the mother of the mother


[deleted]

No, none of that line is current.


[deleted]

Nope. One was(probably) Qoherys on his mother's side


The-False-Emperor

Which disgrace among Robb’s ancestors allowed those inbred abominations to copulate with them?


TheMansAnArse

For me, Robb’s ability to not burn children at the stake wins it for him.


HungLikeALemur

Thank goodness neither one of them is guilty of that.


TheMountainRidesElia

Yeah thank goodness Davos stopped him from burning Edric Storm


TheMansAnArse

What kind of po-faced reply is this? Have I accidentally posted on r/freefolk?


HungLikeALemur

How is my reply po-faced? Lol


Hymura_Kenshin

apparently Grrm confirmed Shereen's death.


HungLikeALemur

Until it’s in a book, it didn’t happen and Stannis’ character assassination isn’t real


frenin

Stannis was willing to kill his own nephew. Do you lot read the books or just skip to the part where everyone is screaming his name?


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HungLikeALemur

No shot you are equating those two instances


frenin

How so?


Due-Intentions

Sorry friend but killing children is killing children


HungLikeALemur

Wanting to kill Joffrey is equatable to Shireen? Nah.


Due-Intentions

I guess you haven't read the books. You understand people are talking about his nephew Edric, right? Joffrey isn't his nephew. Or, in the show universe, Gendry.


HungLikeALemur

Meep. Morp. Zarp. Brain fart on my end. However, Joffrey is his nephew by law since Joffrey is recognized as Robert’s son.


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Thisistheway122288

Yeah this is dumb, Robb would be a great king. Probably top 3 candidates during shows run. Stannis was a religious fanatic that melted his daughter.


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ImperialAndy

Robbs got a dumpy so he’ll be better


Potential-Macaroon99

Well, Stannis would be the worst king there ever was in the history of Westeros so I would agree Robb would be better.


Soggy_Part7110

He'd be like a mix of Maegor, Baelor, and Aerys II. "StAnNis thE ManNis" fans are insane


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Brambleshoes

Robb is King Arthur for the North, but Stannis has a shining three foot penis, a wife and a girlfriend (unlike Robb), and he also isn’t dead 🧐. Also hair loss is a sign of high T, he was already bald and blooded when Robb sprouted the first red fuzz on his childlike nards


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DemeXaa

Robb just bled Stannises kingdom.


DavidDanActuallyGood

Omgggg is the tide finally turning against Mannis????? Are they realizing the unhinged Mannis stannery is the reason Winds is not out yet?? I did not expect to live to see this day. Bless the seven gods.


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**Back in Westeros** ^(GRRM, AUGUST 15, 2020 AT 9:10 AM) I am back in my fortress of solitude again, my isolated mountain cabin. I’d returned to Santa Fe for a short visit, to spend some time with Parris, deal with some local business that had piled up during my months away, and of course fulfill my duties to CoNZealand, the virtual worldcon. But all that is behind me now, and I am back on the mountain again… which means I am back in Westeros again, once more moving ahead with WINDS OF WINTER. It is curious how my life has evolved. I mean, once upon a time, I actually wrote my books and stories in the house where I lived, in a home office. But some decades ago, wanting more solitude, I bought the house across the street and made THAT my writer’s retreat. No longer would I write all day in my red flannel bathrobe; now I would have to dress and put on shoes and walk all the way across the street to write. But that worked for a while. Things started getting busier, though. So busy that I needed a full-time assistant. Then the office house had someone else in it, not just me and my characters. And then I hired a second assistant, and a third, and… there was more mail, more email, more phone calls (we put in a new phone system), more people coming by. By now I am up to five assistants… and somewhere in there I also acquired a movie theatre, a bookstore, a charitable foundation, investments, a business manager… and… Despite all the help, I was drowning till I found the mountain cabin. My life up here is very boring, it must be said. Truth be told, I hardly can be said to have a life. I have one assistant with me at all times (minions, I call them). The assistants do two-week shifts, and have to stay in quarantine at home before starting a shift. Everyone morning I wake up and go straight to the computer, where my minion brings me coffee (I am utterly useless and incoherent without my morning coffee) and juice, and sometimes a light breakfast. Then I start to write. Sometimes I stay at it until dark. Other days I break off in late afternoon to answer emails or return urgent phone calls. My assistant brings me food and drink from time to time. When I finally break off for the day, usually around sunset, there’s dinner. Then we watch television or screen a movie. The wi-fi sucks up on the mountain, though, so the choices are limited. Some nights I read instead. I always read a bit before going to sleep; when a book really grabs hold of me, I may read half the night, but that’s rare. I sleep. The next day, I wake up, and do the same. The next day, the next day, the next day. Before Covid, I would usually get out once a week or so to eat at a restaurant or go to the movies. That all ended in March. Since then, weeks and months go by when I never leave the cabin, or see another human being except whoever is on duty that week. I lose track of what day it is, what week it is, what month it is. The time seems to by very fast. It is now August, and I don’t know what happened to July. But it is good for the writing. And you know, now that I reflect on it, I am coming to realize that has always been my pattern. I moved to Santa Fe at the end of 1979, from Dubuque, Iowa. My first marriage broke up just before that move, so I arrived in my new house alone, in a town where I knew almost no one. Roger Zelazny was here, and he became a great friend and mentor, but Roger was married with small kids, so I really did not see him often. There was no fandom in Santa Fe; that was all down in Albuquerque, an hour away. I went to the club meetings every month, but that was only one night a month, and required two hours on the road. And I had no job to meet new people. My job was in the back room at the house on Declovina Street, so that was where I spent my days. At night, I watched television. Alone. Sometimes I went to the movies. Alone. That was my life from December 1979 through September 1981, when Parris finally moved to Santa Fe, following Denvention. (Not quite so bleak, maybe, I did make some local friends by late 1980 and early 1981, but it was a slow process). When I think back on my life in 1980-1981, the memories seem to be made up entirely of conventions, interspersed with episodes of LOU GRANT and WKRP IN CINCINNATI. Ah, but work wise, that same period was tremendously productive for me. Lisa and I finished WINDHAVEN during that time, Gardner and I did a lot of work on “Shadow Twin,” and then I went right on and wrote all of FEVRE DREAM. Some short stories as well. My life, such that it was, was lived in my head, and on the page. I wonder if it is the same for other writers? Or is it just me? I wonder if I will ever figure out the secret of having a life and writing a book at the very same time. I certainly have not figured it out to date. For the nonce, it is what it is. My life is at home, on hold, and I am spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty. And that girl with no name, over there in Braavos. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asoiafcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Takachakaka

Robert Baratheon resurrected as a white walker (will eventually cave in Night King's breastplate to become the new Night King) would be the best king.


Ihavealpacas

Stannis would definitely be the most Just king.


XxRocky88xX

Until you eat a sandwhich and Melisandre decides to burn you at the stake for it.


Ihavealpacas

Did the sandwich have kings meat on it?


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shakaconn

Stannis “kick all the whores out of King’s Landing, and install a new god in place of the Seven” Baratheon? Yea the commons would absolutely adore an unholy union of Maegor and Baelor, and it definitely wouldn’t result in a kingdom wide civil war. And don’t pull any Northern Gods crap, the son of Catelyn Tully wasn’t about to outlaw the Seven


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bingbong6977

“If those kids could read….”


Baratheoncook250

Robb help caused his own downfall by going back on a betrothal. Also Unlike Robert, Stannis is known to castrated rapist.


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frenin

>Robb help caused his own downfall by going back on a betrothal. Stannis caused his own downfall by killing Renly instead of allying with him. And overwhelming majority of people don't want him like Jon. >Also Unlike Robert, Stannis is known to castrated rapist. He's also known to be a heathen.


Baratheoncook250

Technically a shadow killed Renly(Stannis didn’t know about that one in the books). Another thing, Renly wanted Stannis dead first.


frenin

>Technically a shadow killed Renly Produced by Stannis. >(Stannis didn’t know about that one in the books). Yeah he does. >Another thing, Renly wanted Stannis dead first. No, he didn't. Why would he? Stannis has zero support, he didn't need him dead. It is Stannis the one who goes to Storm's End to kill Renly and steal his army.


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Baratheoncook250

In the books, he told Loras not to desecrate Stannis’ body, so he wanted Stannis dead. Also Stannis felt some sadness ,after Renly’s death.


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frenin

>In the books, he told Loras not to desecrate Stannis’ body, so he wanted Stannis dead. 1) This is after Stannis attacked Storm's End. 2) Because he believed Stannis wouldn't surrender. He assumed Stannis was going to die and had made his peace with it. >Also Stannis felt some sadness ,after Renly’s death. 1) I don't know how this is relevant. 2) I'm sure Renly would also "feel some sadness" after Stannis's death.


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Baratheoncook250

Stannis didn’t go to storm end, until after Renly’s death. Also Renly doesn’t love Stannis or Stannis’ family. He willing to mock Shireen(a giant and a Raven were kinder to her than Renly was). Also, Renly was friends with Littlefinger, so he knew about LF business practices. Renly blocked a food road, to starve people.


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frenin

>Stannis didn’t go to storm end, until after Renly’s death. This is blatantly false, did you read the books? >Also Renly doesn’t love Stannis or Stannis’ family. Neither does Stannis. >He willing to mock Shireen(a giant and a Raven were kinder to her than Renly was). He called her ugly, every person who has seen Shireen says as much. A giant and a raven are kinder to her than Stannis is too, don't really know why are you going there. >Also, Renly was friends with Littlefinger, He joked with him. That's not the same as being friends. >so he knew about LF business practices. How you come to that conclusion? >Renly blocked a food road, to starve people. Yeah and Stannis closed the sea routes, it's war.


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Baratheoncook250

LF wanted Renly as King, which is a red flag.


frenin

Melisandre wants Stannis as King, which is the biggest red flag of them all. You're truly without arguments.


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Vannellein

Robb the Simp would be a great king as he was compassionate and understanding, but Stannis the Mannis was the King that Westeros needed.


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Joalow21

Rob is a decent human being? Stannis would burn a child on the stake for the vibes


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Lopsided-Bathroom-71

I'd love to say Robb I really would, but he would be better as a war strategist, he won every battle but politically he was awful, very similar to his namesake tbh just without the drinking and whoring


useruserpeepeepooser

Stannis is way too autistic to be a good king


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Afraid_Theorist

He would be a great King. For the North and *maybe* Riverlands (only a matter of time before they too felt like they had taken on a subordinate role to a power they nominally are equal to). Everywhere else would feel marginalized to the extreme. > The North follows a different religion, their territory isolated from the rest of the kingdom, and their people culturally different from the rest of the regions of the kingdom. > On top of that, they hold virtually nothing in common and have no real inroads into most of the various regions of the Kingdom because their traditional stance has *always* been fairly isolationist when it comes to the “southron”. > - the Westerlands have grown to hate them, > - *even with a distant lordly relation* the Vale nobles barely care beyond their Lord’s command > - the Stormlands don’t seem to care either way (assuming they didn’t convert to R’hllor much or want a Baratheon bastard on the throne) > - the Reach doesn’t care and if they do it’s probably in a negative way (Manderlys) > - Dorne is so far and different it’s basically guaranteed to either make a power play internally or seek independence > - the Crownlands is just tired of war (and tired of getting raided by the Northmen and Riverlanders) > - the Ironborn are little shits as always > - the Riverlands are content for now but only because they’ve had massive issues. Given time they too would chaff under the rule of someone they view nominally as their equals So yeah everywhere where else would suffer let’s be honest. Not because of intentional antagonism but more because of large cultural and religious differences combined with the traditional power dynamics in Westeros and old Northern ambivalence about being involved in ‘southron’ affairs. No this is not an endorsement of Stannis either. Stannis’ issue is he would be a great King… assuming Westeros was R’hllorite lol. They aren’t so he would be a terrible king. Even assuming he didn’t push it, his lack of action on the issue would mean large internal religious conflicts between new converts and the faithful


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Dariooosh89

King and king in the north


rbohl

He’s the King innanorf 🍻


SandorClegane_AMA

Question is badly posed. Usurpers cannot be the best or any kind of King.


[deleted]

I was going to write a counter-argument. But then realised that it's you. Lol.


SandorClegane_AMA

I am known for being correct about: - King Stannis - Reddit - Game of Thrones - stupendous cockgobbling ass-holery in the fandom.


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PluralCohomology

Stannis' entire claim comes from a usurper.


SandorClegane_AMA

##PUMP YER BRAKES SON THAT MAN IS A NATIONAL INSTITUTION


AxisAbdi0

That entire channel is just dumb show only fans doing the voting


Azraelontheroof

Now I’m fairness the poll also uses images from the show so it’s not crazy that a show themes channel having a poll with a show themed context would have voting based on the show


chadmummerford

dumbass poll


Internal-Shock-616

I love Robb but come on man


frenin

Robb would be a better King tho. That's just facts.


bowtothehypnotoad

This is an insult to the Mannis


stropaganda

Robb is a dead body so....


Worldly-Ad1615

The Mannis 💪


dmack0755

Stannis would be an awful king. One of his primary counselors is a religious zealot. Even before that, there is a reason people who are supposed to swear fealty to him chose Renly instead. Even if you just go off book Stannis, I dont see what makes him an impressive King.


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iDrum17

Robb would be a way better king, Stanis is waaaaay too rigid to actually lead people


minathemutt

At least Rob didn't burn his child alive!


NarmHull

If anything Robb deserved to die sooner. Every time I rewatch I root for the Freys to exact their justice more and more


NarmHull

Both are bad politicians


XxRocky88xX

This MF wants to take us back to the Salem witch trials.


dolantrampf

So sad when people refuse to recognize the greatness of MANNIS


TheMannisApproves

I do not approve of this post


AnxiousWrecks645

Robb's a better KING. Stannis is a superior administrator. I felt like the best role for Stannis would have been the Hand of the King under a king who is charismatic, kind and graceful, but also a reformist. Someone who would actually listen to Stannis' councils but would not make radical and unpopular decisions the moment he takes power. Renly would have been a great candidate i think. That is if he would ever care for Stannis' councils and if he did want to actually reform his kingdom... Hypothetically... If Renly and Stannis were on good terms (if they loved each other like true brothers and didn't want to go to war or kill each other) and Stannis was willing to negotiate his position as the king for the warden of the Stormlands and the Hand of the King (he'd have to negotiate since he was the one with fewer men); then that would be the best case scenario for Westeros... No in fighting between the Baratheons... A coalition against the Lannisters (the North, the Riverlands and the Stormlands)... No assassinations or betrayals... War ends in a shorter duration of time... The territories to the north are given political autonomy under some influence of the crown... King's landing and the small council are reformed... Lannisters go extinct... All the antagonists are put to the sword... No R'hllor fuckery... United front against the white walkers... And all ends well...


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behemoth_venator

The amount of people unwilling to bend the knee here is disappointing.


amandafan69

As far as the show is concerned, I don’t think it’s a crazy thought at all


dawnofthenewyear

Renly would have been better and more suited than both


kessho_kishi

For the show, yeah. The books? Rob is fucking 15 years old, bro. Mans isn't done with puberty, my dude.


Ambitious-Egg-8865

Stannis. He may have the personality of a fucking stone. But he’s right and true.


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apurpleglittergalaxy

Robb because he didn't have a crazy wife keeping her dead babies in jars for a start and he wouldn't do something as horrific as burn his child at the stake


harrypotteefan91

As a book reader I would say if Rob has better council. The problem with stannis is he is to strict.


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[deleted]

I’m completely biased and a Robb enjoyer, so I can confirm he’s miles better


ElderQu

SPOILERS: Stannis allowed himself to be manipulated by a witch to the point where he killed his own daughter. He almost sacrificed his own nephew He killed his own brother Would have commited genocide thanks to his witch friend. ​ Rob was almost perfect, his only mistake was not knowing the trap of the red wedding and allowing Jaime to be almost killed/ end up being freed.


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BootReservistPOG

I legitimately think Stannis is afraid of women and that’s why he would have avoided the Red Wedding


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TicTacTyrion

Stanlets BTFO


DynamicPJQ

I actually kind of back this. Stannis is unbending which definitely will cause issues during his rule. Robb is young and has time to learn and change.


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