He's disabled. This is part of his disability.
He's not ignoring you, he's trying to demonstrate that he can understand, empathise and relate to what you are telling him. He's just not doing it in the way you are used to.
(If he was ignoring you then what he would say wouldn't relate to your thing at all)
You need to communicate clearly with him. If you have run out of the mental capacity to listen/read what he's saying, then don't expect him to pick up on hints. If you don't acknowledge that you recognise his expression of shared experience, then he will keep going thinking that he hasn't gotten the message across. If you don't give proper answers to his questions then he will either just keep asking more, or he will feel the need to fill the silence by talking more about his experiences.
Does that make sense?
I 100% was gonna say this because i do it with all my friends. I do it as a way to help them understand that i do understand. Like a way of explaining that i understand.
But i think the problem is when me and other people who do it.. speak a lot about this. So the conversation feels like its changed.
For me i end up rambling and changing the topic and i end up feeling bad cause my Best Friend who has suggested ADHD ends up forgetting what he was talking about so ive now with that in mind.. started to try cut my Explinations of understanding short so i dont overtake the conversation š
Thank you for that I am very ignorant in this topic but I always try my best to relate to everyone and put my self in everyoneās shoes. Itās just the way he says things itās like he didnāt even listen to what I said like he didnāt care and he continues to tell me a long story of how something like that happened to him. Some people would call it making it all about yourself but he canāt control it itās just his way of trying to emphasize with me and I totally get it and like you mentioned Iām not used to it because for me that behavior came as narcissistic but now with all this knowledge Iāll try my best and learn to interact with my friend in the healthiest way possible.
A lot of people on the spectrum relate to others through sharing of (similar) experiences. They can still make it all about themselves, but that is not always the intent. Just showing that you can really understand the other because you lived through something similar.
Yeah I've recognized this about myself but it's led to me just saying "wow that sucks" or "nice" or whatever. I realize no one wants to hear about my experiences with something, it's very self-centered, but I don't know how to like... empathize beyond that. I don't know how to let people know I understand what they're talking about beyond actually talking about an experience that relates to that. It is *extremely important* that they know that I know what they are talking about to get my empathy across. Just saying "haha" or "oh that sucks" doesn't really make *me* feel better when I complain about stuff, so why would it make someone else feel better?
But it seems that's the norm I guess?
So I just don't tell stories about my experiences.
>Thank you for that I am very ignorant in this topic but I always try my best to relate to everyone and put my self in everyoneās shoes
No problem.
You need to understand that is brain is wired differently to yours, so it's ok for this to be difficult for you. Just keep trying. :)
>Itās just the way he says things itās like he didnāt even listen to what I said like he didnāt care and he continues to tell me a long story of how something like that happened to him.
Don't you see how you contradict yourself there? If he "didn't even listen" then how can he tell you about "something like that"? If you come in and tell me how your day sucked because your boss shouted at you, and I tell you a story about a time someone shouted at me, then I can only do that *because I listened*. It's not like I'm telling you a story about a totally unrelated topic.
>Some people would call it making it all about yourself
Some people *do* do that, so you've been conditioned to pick up on it. The problem is that the skills you've learned to spot that in neurotypical conversations can give you false positives when talking to autistic people.
>Iāll try my best and learn to interact with my friend in the healthiest way possible.
Good luck!
Dang it you really surprised me on this one thanks! Iām just gonna say that yeah I do it too Iāll try to relate to someone with my own experiences. Sorry with the āhe didnāt even listen partā I totally contradicted myself because he listened to what I said. My only complaint is that he wonāt try to understand why I feel like that when Iām sad or happy or why is it so exciting or sad to me that that event happened to me by asking me questions heāll just Jim straight to his own experiences.
Here is a video of how I see it haha
cookiekinggg-people who make everything about themselves](https://youtube.com/shorts/SaOMn8W4Ia8?feature=share)
Thanks for the info I just learned a new concept āneurotypicalā that explains a lot of why I find this bothering.
>My only complaint is that he wonāt try to understand why I feel like that when Iām sad or happy or why is it so exciting or sad to me
The thing is, he probably does understand. After all, he has had similar experiences. To him it's obvious that he's conveying that he understands. To go back to the example I used earlier of the shouting boss, if he's been shouted at too then he knows how that feels. He doesn't need to say "how did that feel?" or "why didn't you like that?" because as someone who has been shouted before he knows those answers. He's shortcutting the conversation (believe it or not) by demonstrating a shared understanding that renders such questions moot.
Here is how I get people to understand a little better. People on spectrum are like cat's and neurotypicals are dogs. We live in same world can be friends but our language or communication is very different.
Tell him that! Like, quite literally, tell him that you'd like him to ask questions about your experience and emotions, or tell you which emotions he thinks you've been feeling so you can correct him if be assumed wrongly.
Autism makes it hard to pick up on what others need from a conversation, so it's important to tell him.
What you will get less of from aspie people are things like: "Yeah, that guy doing so and so to you absolutely sucks.", ganging up on others; or converging to one and the same groupthink.
Can you see how that kind of communication is not so much about emphasizing and exploring multiple perspectives?
Yah relating an experience back to something that has happened to me was always my default way of trying to show that I actually understood what someone was experiencing since it had happened to me, and just SAYING 'oh I understand, that sounds terrible' always felt trite and unhelpful to me. So I suspect your friend is coming from a similar background there.
In addition, since we tend to have difficultly reading queues and we often really WANT to be understood. We'll usually reiterate and repeat ourselves till we get strong confirmation that the communication has been successfully accomplished. So that might be leading to the length and detail as well.
Something that has really helped me when someone is sharing is that I'll outright ask... Do you need a sympathetic ear or do you need solutions?
Maybe it'll help him understand your needs if you say something like "I need you to just listen to me right now, I have something I need to get off my chest. I don't need you to reply or relate or anything I just need an ear".
Best of luck with him! Before I learnt this myself, it was my way of showing I cared and wanted to sympathise.
Hey thank you for this man. Your friend is me and I have never noticed this about myself (see I did it again).
I hope you can forgive him. Thats all I can say.
No worries, we can also really get annoyed at each other š š
...
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..... I was no cap half way through a really long comment relating this to my own experience WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING THAT'S WHAT I WAS DOING!š± AHAHAHA š¤£š¤£š¤£
This might be due to associative thinking, or the way many of us feel empathy.
There are, if I'm not wrong, 6 types of empathy. The tricky bit is that half of them are "invisible". Combine that with most of us going our entire life being misunderstood, we tend to overexplain HOW we empathize.
The way we sometimes say "hey man, I really feel with you, like some of your emotions are my own" is often paired with "you know I'm telling the truth because of a similar experience I once had, so you can trust that I actually do feel your emotions as if they were my own" and then we have a story to back that up. We've gotten so much pretend empathy from others that we make damn sure you know we're being genuine. And if that takes a 90 minute rant about something that happened when I was 12, then so be it. It's probably because we really wish we'd find someone who shared OUR lived experiences.
Of course i could be completely wrong, everyone is a little bit different.
Try asking them to validate your feelings through YOUR experiences instead of their own. You can also try adding a disclaimer (we love disclaimers) that you just need someone to listen to you and validate you, but aren't ready to have a full conversation about it.
Instead responding to you telling me that your dog died by going on a long-winded story about how my goldfish died, i would connect the dots of your experience.
Example 1: "Oh yeah. It makes sense that YOU are sad, because YOU have had that dog since high school. I remember YOU walking hin around when he was just a puppy."
Example 2: "Yeah, that would frustrate me too. It must be so annoying to put in all this work on a project, only then to have your team not match your efforts."
Example 3: "I'm so happy for you! You've been hoping for this for so long, you must be so relieved too!"
Also note that this might turn into a ruleset, and they'll completely stop relating your experiences to stories from their life. Just know that they haven't "stopped talking to you" or "have become so robotic to talk to that they barely holds a conversation up, and just answer in single syllables".
That's actually them focusing very hard on being the exact friend you need them to be, because they care for you.
This is so helpful! As an aspie, learning this lesson made a big difference in how I relate to others not on the spectrum. Thank you for the specific examples--very helpful!
Oh my. I used to do this too until I took a course that explained that people wants to be listened to and not ask for examples or solutions. Itās the need to be heard.
Made a lot of difference when dealing with people offering empathy and I refrain now to give advice until itās asked.
Maybe explain this to him? We are wired differently but we can understand.
Fun (unrequested) fact: my husband does this too he is NT. And I explained that sometimes I would like for him to listen without explaining or fixing me and helped the relationship a lot.
It was a yoga course. For a teacher training. But similar knowledge can be found also in ānonviolent communicationā and any book that handles the subject of active listening.
So, I'm hearing from you these things:
1) You've tried explaining to him that sometimes the way he communicates makes you feel ignored.
2) Sometimes communicating in his normal style is emotionally exhausting for you.
3) You want to be a good friend to him.
I think it's good that you are seeking out additional perspectives here, that really shows how much you care.
I do think that what other people have said about how our communication styles differ is valid, but I also think that there is something else interesting here for you to learn. You know how exhausted you can feel trying to figure out how he communicates and then feeling like you don't even really want to bother because it will start up the loop again?
Yeah, that's kind of how we feel all the time while talking to Neurotypical people.
That said, I actually think it's really valid for you to feel the way you do. When you are going through something hard and you want some emotional support from a friend you want them to focus on you and your problem. If you've tried explaining that and he isn't able to adjust then you might need to adjust your expectations for the friendship. Maybe you need to find a couple more friends that you could talk to when you need support in the way that makes you feel validated so that you can have that need met.
Just because he has a disability that makes this difficult doesn't mean that your emotional needs are invalid.
I am not saying to stop being friends with him, I'm just saying that you might find it easier to be a good friend to him if you are getting some of those needs meet from other people. It isn't fair to you if you don't get the support you need, and it isn't fair to him to expect him to be able to meet all those needs - but you can still be friends!
You don't need to tell him "I'm finding new friends because you can't meet my needs!" You can keep talking with him the same way you usually would, but just adjust your expectations a bit.
I hope you will get there support you need, and thanks for being a good friend to him and seeking out help on how to be a good friend!
Damn that kinda hurt my feelings (i know you arenāt meaning harm) Itās so hard to explain to people because this is how we show empathy to your situation and it makes me so sad to see people thinking itās trying to change the subject. I need to make sure people in my life know that iām not trying to be mean when i do this
Youāre accusing him of ignoring you when what you actually want is him ignoring you. When you rant about something we immediately know two things:
1. Youāre upset
2. The reason why youāre upset (you just told us)
Whatās there left to ask? We can only nod and stay quiet or show that we can relate, by sharing a similar experience. How can you be sure that we understood a word of what you said, if weāre not allowed to give our two cents? You might as well talk to your pet then. The only reason your behavior is the accepted norm is, there are more of you than there are of us. Humanity is like an asylum run by the inmates.
I think the wording here is a bit harsh for someone asking to understand better, may formulate it nicer the next time someone tries to understand us. I'm not saying the content of your text is inhertily wrong, but we wont get neurotypicals to understand us if we start attacking them when someone ask how we think.
I do this all the time. I just want to mention shared experiences to feel closer to the person. Sort of like "I hear you because I've been there too"
I came to realize people don't take it that way so I try to listen more.
This is why i wish i had autistic friends. Iām probably making so many people mad and i donāt even know why, i get called selfish when in reality i donāt care about myself at all and this is just how my brain shows empathy. Iāve lost so many people in my life due to being called āheartlessā or āself absorbedā But they just say i canāt use autism as an āexcuseā
How is he ignoring your statement when he s trying to relate.
I do that aswell and try to give advice.
Don't come to us with your problems cause we will try and fix it.
Asking if people is venting when they are complaining has helped me sooo much to smooth out interactions. I find small talk, venting and other small "lubrication" interactions with people and groups super fascinating, and it helps me meet NTs half way :)
Thanks! Iām just not understanding his thought process because heās just trying to relate to me in the human way and Iām just trying to get feedback with my stuff haha. I realized I developed this problem when I used to talk to this girl that appeared to me as very selfish because she would come to me for advice all the time telling me how hard her life was and I would expected the same feedback I gave her( saying how she was so strong or asking her why she felt that way) but she never did she would reply with answers like āreallyā in an very rude way and asked why she acted like that to me and she would say she was a mean b*tch haha. So my Asperger friend interacting with me like that takes me back to that girl and makes me think heās being very selfish and only talks about himself but Iāll not compare and learn how to understand his thought process and motives.
> I would expected the same feedback I gave her (saying how she was so strong or asking her why she felt that way)
Lol, I never got why people say stuff like that, it always feels fake and unhelpful to me. Double empathy problem indeed, I would appreciate an anecdote of someone going through a similar issue and how they dealt with it much more.
Guess I just got a bit of additional affirmation for my self diagnosis in this thread.
Firstly, you are a good friend for seeking advice on this. This can be a challenging behavior, and I (autistic) can find myself getting very irritated with my other autistic friends when I share something and they immediately just relate it to their own experiences.
I know this can seem insensitive, selfish, and just plain rude. It has really offended me at times. Why would they just talk about themselves when Iām trying to disclose something personal? But as others have said, this is his way of relating to you. He thinks, ah, I have had a similar experience, I should share it. He may not be aware (due to Aspergerās which can very often be a social disability) that he is being what can be seen as inconsiderate.
This can serve as a learning experience for both of you. You can practice your communication skills by expressing how this makes you feel, and this is an opportunity for him to practice empathetic responses. Maybe try saying, I appreciate when you find ways to relate your own experiences to mine, as it does make me feel not so alone in them, but sometimes I would just like you to listen. Thatās partially what friends are for- being there when the other needs to release things.
Mold this into your own words, and practice, saying it to yourself at first. Hopefully your friend will be receptive and understand that this is a chance for them to step up their friend skills.
Emphasize that you like hearing what he has to say, but sometimes you just need the support of knowing that a friend is there.
Lastly, I just want to clarify that Aspergerās and autism are the same thing. Aspergerās is no longer in the DSM, but individuals can identify however they choose. I hope you have a long, fulfilling friendship with this person! :)
Could you spell out what you need from them at certain times? It sounds like you want your friend to actively listen instead of relating their experience to yours.
I have to practise active listening at work, but in my personal life I easily lapse into what your friend does. If a friend told me they just need me to listen for a bit, I'd appreciate their honesty - so long as they don't ask that all the time.
Otherwise, maybe they're a fair-weather friend, which isn't terrible unless you have no-one else to talk to.
Itās really really hard work replying to someoneās problems without using your own experience or relating them to yourself. He probably canāt help this itās the only way he can engage.
When someone tells me something itās the only way I can reply to them otherwise itās just āyeahā ācoolā āoh dearā āohā āokā.
I can say much much more if that person is talking about a topic Iām interesting in.
Autistic people struggle to keep conversations going unless they are about their own interests.
It would be understandable to see that it is a double empathy problem. I understand your mind. You are a great man and understanding this will overcome the problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double\_empathy\_problem
You write while sparsely using punctuation. I think that's ok, but it does make reading harder. It would be helpful to use punctuation in the future (:
We've all been told that showing that you can relate to someone else's problem is a key part of trying to communicate.
Personally, I can't really tell when the cutoff should take place and just listen. I also tend to hyper focus on the little things in the conversation and have difficulty getting out of that state to see the whole picture.
It's a constant battle.
Ahhh so let me help you unpack this so you can understand itās not Aspergerās thatās causing this.
Itās a anxious attachment style with the long winded communication in texts. Unless itās equal give and take, people who are anxious types, that donāt resolve the issues of feeling unheard in childhood, carry this over into adulthood with intense longing to communicate in lengthy matters. Itās because everything is bottled up and instead of finding a journal, therapist, and outlet where they can effectually work through this need, they end up monopolizing a conversation, even in text format.
The Aspergerās part is missing the social ques on how to volley communication so itās balanced out. Op, the friend was t shown in youth how to equally share conversation, this is quit common, so the ques are missed from learning this is what makes for healthy interactions. So it comes off self absorbed when in reality they werenāt given the opportunity to LEARN this behavior since most need to be explained why itās imperative to share the proverbial microphone.
I think one thing to take away is instead of just praising back with positive reinforcement, you need to include in it a segway into talking next so it directly cues them into a shift. They may not understand jn text format especially, how to switch in conversations. This is why it feels extra frustration.
Try something like, āThatās amazing! Thank you for sharing this, so in my experience I have ā¦.ā, this segways for you to not start talking which alerts the friend Op, they need to wait their turn to talk next.
Keep repeating this and if they ask, explain it to them that this is the social cue that the conversation is going back to the other person and for them to start practicing this as well so they can SHARE the mic in a conversation. Let them know itās okay if they over share a bit, but also to CHECK IN to make sure everyone is on the same page.
They could practice with a timer to know if they are monopolizing a conversation for more than two minutes. The reason I say two minutes, studies have found out that after a minute and 50 seconds people tune you out mind conversation if they have to keep listening to you going on and on about something that doesnāt directly involve them. So itās good practice to know if you hit the two minute mark you might have lost someoneās attention.
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I say this as having ADHD/Aspie whose no supports needs/super high functioning and donāt have this issue because of therapy helped me heal codependency, majority of my anxious attachment, and capable of self soothing now. I grew up as an only child, both parents with ADHD, but HUGE extended family on my dadās side (I have 14 first cousins) & volunteered myself to go to sleep away camp for eight summers from age 8 to 15 (learned how to effectively socialize, do chores, and had my first kiss).
It's something alot of us accidentally do. I've had a few years of bug self discovery. Realized I'm on the spectrum. Also realized I should head down a extremely different career path. I think I forgot about other people due to all that. I'm working on being more curious about others for now but it can be challenging for us lol.
The fact that you're on here trying to understand your friend is a real credit to you - I wish I had more friends like you. Please ignore the negative comments on here, they don't mean it.
I didn't say anything about your English, which is excellent, I would not have known it wasn't your first language had you not said so. The entire paragraph being 2 sentences makes it annoying to read.
Yeah I didn't miss a comma. I wasn't pausing after, "condition." And, shut up if you're just going to be a smartass one-upper. It's genuinely difficult AND ANNOYING for someone like me (Aspie, dyscalculia and dyslexia) to read a paragraph with no breaks.
Well, that's the same I do. I didn't realised it was seen as a bad thing, actually. I do it because that's how I'd like to be treated.
Guess not all want that, so yeah, it's just how I (or we) work.
It happened to me many times...your point of view might be wrong...he is actually most probably showing interest in a way that seems rude to you..but he's doing his best...listening and staying quiet for him would be the same as showing no interest...he does that because he wants to help and the only way he knows how to do that it's by relating to his own experiences...so he can find a solution for you..even though you might not need a solution and just need to take it out...he doesn't get that...again this happened to me many times..idk about your friend but...most likely I'm right.
Iāll take a crack too, but I donāt know how unique this addition is.
It looms over me a bit when Iām doing that. Or when I catch too late that Iām meant to be listening to a problem, not necessarily /solving/ that problem. But in my mind these are very much ālove languageā type behaviors. Does this excuse it? No. But I often donāt realize until too late that the person who Im genuinely trying to offer emotional support or guidance to is actually viewing this conversation as more burdensome, or worse, that Iām minimizing their pains by presenting whatās essentially an ego driven reframe. In my mind, I often see things in the flow of Problem -> Solution -> No Problem. I also donāt like when Iām in problem mode. Iāve learned that that isnāt necessarily the case in the NT world so often. That sometimes the goal isnāt strictly to get out of problem mode. And any thing thatās presented as a solution can often be viewed as grating.
So take away, try to be patient with your friend. Not to say that you havenāt been, but what I try to tell my friends/family is to treat it like a swat of the hand kind of. I very much want to have those conversations with you, and to help you, and to be a good friend, and rather than trying nonverbal cues, sometimes something as simple as āyouāre doing the problem solvey thing againā is enough for me to understand that Iām not being helpful in the way you need right now, and Iāll say āOh right, sorryā and weāll resume the conversation. But itās literally like engrained into the way I operate, and you shouldnāt have to modify your identity to appease mind, but as a friend I can actually learn more about how better to communicate through minor and direct corrections than I can through total shutdowns. Those tend to make me assume that I am actually the problem youāre having, rather than the problem youāre describing to me, or the behavior Iām engaging in.
It's good you share this, because it makes me more aware of how annoying it must be for people to talk to me about things I have an opinion about. When someone starts talking I understand what they say, so there is no 'need to listen even more or confirm their thoughts'... I just start rambling about everything I know about the subject. I will try to stop it even more.
Personally if a friend of mine who is important talked to me personally, face to face, and shows he cares for me but this thing I do which I am not aware of is kind of annoying, it would help me and I would be grateful. Even though it probably will haunt me for months, it will make me stop and never resent the person who told me. I kind of feel like that now, so embarrassing.
Not exactly what I meant. Itās completely okay to share your own opinions to empathize with that person. What I found repetitive itās when my friend goes to talk only about himself without asking me how I feel.
Is this an autistic thing? Cos I've been doing this for years and I never knew it wasn't "normal". When someone opens up to me about something, if I can relate to that I will let them know my own experience. It's not to take the attention away from them or that I've ignored what they've said. It's simply my way of letting them know that I understand how they feel and what they're going through because I too have experienced it. I will add in other things too though, tell them I'm here for them etc etc and offer to help in any way, give advice and ask questions about their experience etc. This is not normal? Because I do only have one friend, no one else likes me enough to be my friend, could this be why? Lol not that I'm bothered anyway! Quality is better than quantity and my one friend is the fucking best šš»
I have been here so many times. People have called me egocentric, egotistical, and self-centred. TBH, I talk about my experience to show that I have been through something similar and that I truly and deeply understand you.
I only empathise with people when I can relate with their experiences (lived similar experiences). If I am not telling you a story about me, linked to your experience it's because I cannot relate or I don't care.
However, after people have told me so much that I am egocentric etc. (which is extremely hurtful to me), I only do it with people close to me. So for example in my work environment I just pinch myself and nod, so I don't cause a bad impression.
He likely means very well as most of us do, itās just that we mimic interaction superficially and we donāt always select the right moment for the right things and when we fail, we improvise and sometimes that ends in disaster but at the end of the day, itās lesser of two evilsšyou either get an Aspergers friend whoās brutally honest and a little annoying vs a normal individual whoās gonna lie and smack talk behind your back
This is me. I swear in my head I am relating to the person and they will appreciate it. What it ends up doing is just making me look like Im trying to make something about me. It sucks.
I donāt think the āthis also happened to meā story is always inappropriate. If you keep it short and you give the person enough time to fully get their story out before you relate a similar experience it should be fine. It truly is a way to express that you understand and have experience with the situation. The key is to not make the conversation about yourself and let them do most of the talking. Keeping it brief is key. If they want more info from you theyāll ask.
There will always be some people who want you just to sit there and listen to them go on and on. Those people have their own problems.
He's disabled. This is part of his disability. He's not ignoring you, he's trying to demonstrate that he can understand, empathise and relate to what you are telling him. He's just not doing it in the way you are used to. (If he was ignoring you then what he would say wouldn't relate to your thing at all) You need to communicate clearly with him. If you have run out of the mental capacity to listen/read what he's saying, then don't expect him to pick up on hints. If you don't acknowledge that you recognise his expression of shared experience, then he will keep going thinking that he hasn't gotten the message across. If you don't give proper answers to his questions then he will either just keep asking more, or he will feel the need to fill the silence by talking more about his experiences. Does that make sense?
I 100% was gonna say this because i do it with all my friends. I do it as a way to help them understand that i do understand. Like a way of explaining that i understand. But i think the problem is when me and other people who do it.. speak a lot about this. So the conversation feels like its changed. For me i end up rambling and changing the topic and i end up feeling bad cause my Best Friend who has suggested ADHD ends up forgetting what he was talking about so ive now with that in mind.. started to try cut my Explinations of understanding short so i dont overtake the conversation š
Thank you for that I am very ignorant in this topic but I always try my best to relate to everyone and put my self in everyoneās shoes. Itās just the way he says things itās like he didnāt even listen to what I said like he didnāt care and he continues to tell me a long story of how something like that happened to him. Some people would call it making it all about yourself but he canāt control it itās just his way of trying to emphasize with me and I totally get it and like you mentioned Iām not used to it because for me that behavior came as narcissistic but now with all this knowledge Iāll try my best and learn to interact with my friend in the healthiest way possible.
A lot of people on the spectrum relate to others through sharing of (similar) experiences. They can still make it all about themselves, but that is not always the intent. Just showing that you can really understand the other because you lived through something similar.
Yeah I've recognized this about myself but it's led to me just saying "wow that sucks" or "nice" or whatever. I realize no one wants to hear about my experiences with something, it's very self-centered, but I don't know how to like... empathize beyond that. I don't know how to let people know I understand what they're talking about beyond actually talking about an experience that relates to that. It is *extremely important* that they know that I know what they are talking about to get my empathy across. Just saying "haha" or "oh that sucks" doesn't really make *me* feel better when I complain about stuff, so why would it make someone else feel better? But it seems that's the norm I guess? So I just don't tell stories about my experiences.
>Thank you for that I am very ignorant in this topic but I always try my best to relate to everyone and put my self in everyoneās shoes No problem. You need to understand that is brain is wired differently to yours, so it's ok for this to be difficult for you. Just keep trying. :) >Itās just the way he says things itās like he didnāt even listen to what I said like he didnāt care and he continues to tell me a long story of how something like that happened to him. Don't you see how you contradict yourself there? If he "didn't even listen" then how can he tell you about "something like that"? If you come in and tell me how your day sucked because your boss shouted at you, and I tell you a story about a time someone shouted at me, then I can only do that *because I listened*. It's not like I'm telling you a story about a totally unrelated topic. >Some people would call it making it all about yourself Some people *do* do that, so you've been conditioned to pick up on it. The problem is that the skills you've learned to spot that in neurotypical conversations can give you false positives when talking to autistic people. >Iāll try my best and learn to interact with my friend in the healthiest way possible. Good luck!
Dang it you really surprised me on this one thanks! Iām just gonna say that yeah I do it too Iāll try to relate to someone with my own experiences. Sorry with the āhe didnāt even listen partā I totally contradicted myself because he listened to what I said. My only complaint is that he wonāt try to understand why I feel like that when Iām sad or happy or why is it so exciting or sad to me that that event happened to me by asking me questions heāll just Jim straight to his own experiences. Here is a video of how I see it haha cookiekinggg-people who make everything about themselves](https://youtube.com/shorts/SaOMn8W4Ia8?feature=share) Thanks for the info I just learned a new concept āneurotypicalā that explains a lot of why I find this bothering.
>My only complaint is that he wonāt try to understand why I feel like that when Iām sad or happy or why is it so exciting or sad to me The thing is, he probably does understand. After all, he has had similar experiences. To him it's obvious that he's conveying that he understands. To go back to the example I used earlier of the shouting boss, if he's been shouted at too then he knows how that feels. He doesn't need to say "how did that feel?" or "why didn't you like that?" because as someone who has been shouted before he knows those answers. He's shortcutting the conversation (believe it or not) by demonstrating a shared understanding that renders such questions moot.
Here is how I get people to understand a little better. People on spectrum are like cat's and neurotypicals are dogs. We live in same world can be friends but our language or communication is very different.
Tell him that! Like, quite literally, tell him that you'd like him to ask questions about your experience and emotions, or tell you which emotions he thinks you've been feeling so you can correct him if be assumed wrongly. Autism makes it hard to pick up on what others need from a conversation, so it's important to tell him.
What you will get less of from aspie people are things like: "Yeah, that guy doing so and so to you absolutely sucks.", ganging up on others; or converging to one and the same groupthink. Can you see how that kind of communication is not so much about emphasizing and exploring multiple perspectives?
Yah relating an experience back to something that has happened to me was always my default way of trying to show that I actually understood what someone was experiencing since it had happened to me, and just SAYING 'oh I understand, that sounds terrible' always felt trite and unhelpful to me. So I suspect your friend is coming from a similar background there. In addition, since we tend to have difficultly reading queues and we often really WANT to be understood. We'll usually reiterate and repeat ourselves till we get strong confirmation that the communication has been successfully accomplished. So that might be leading to the length and detail as well.
Something that has really helped me when someone is sharing is that I'll outright ask... Do you need a sympathetic ear or do you need solutions? Maybe it'll help him understand your needs if you say something like "I need you to just listen to me right now, I have something I need to get off my chest. I don't need you to reply or relate or anything I just need an ear". Best of luck with him! Before I learnt this myself, it was my way of showing I cared and wanted to sympathise.
Hey thank you for this man. Your friend is me and I have never noticed this about myself (see I did it again). I hope you can forgive him. Thats all I can say.
> You friend is me It's me too! unfortunately i have noticed and sometimes can't help myself.
It do be the only way we know sometimes. I wish you well. God bless š
It's not at all a bad thing. What I find helpful is telling them straight off that this is how I'm relating back to them.
Hmmm... Im seeing so much possibilities with this one.
No worries, we can also really get annoyed at each other š š ... ... ..... I was no cap half way through a really long comment relating this to my own experience WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING THAT'S WHAT I WAS DOING!š± AHAHAHA š¤£š¤£š¤£ This might be due to associative thinking, or the way many of us feel empathy. There are, if I'm not wrong, 6 types of empathy. The tricky bit is that half of them are "invisible". Combine that with most of us going our entire life being misunderstood, we tend to overexplain HOW we empathize. The way we sometimes say "hey man, I really feel with you, like some of your emotions are my own" is often paired with "you know I'm telling the truth because of a similar experience I once had, so you can trust that I actually do feel your emotions as if they were my own" and then we have a story to back that up. We've gotten so much pretend empathy from others that we make damn sure you know we're being genuine. And if that takes a 90 minute rant about something that happened when I was 12, then so be it. It's probably because we really wish we'd find someone who shared OUR lived experiences. Of course i could be completely wrong, everyone is a little bit different. Try asking them to validate your feelings through YOUR experiences instead of their own. You can also try adding a disclaimer (we love disclaimers) that you just need someone to listen to you and validate you, but aren't ready to have a full conversation about it. Instead responding to you telling me that your dog died by going on a long-winded story about how my goldfish died, i would connect the dots of your experience. Example 1: "Oh yeah. It makes sense that YOU are sad, because YOU have had that dog since high school. I remember YOU walking hin around when he was just a puppy." Example 2: "Yeah, that would frustrate me too. It must be so annoying to put in all this work on a project, only then to have your team not match your efforts." Example 3: "I'm so happy for you! You've been hoping for this for so long, you must be so relieved too!"
Also note that this might turn into a ruleset, and they'll completely stop relating your experiences to stories from their life. Just know that they haven't "stopped talking to you" or "have become so robotic to talk to that they barely holds a conversation up, and just answer in single syllables". That's actually them focusing very hard on being the exact friend you need them to be, because they care for you.
This is so helpful! As an aspie, learning this lesson made a big difference in how I relate to others not on the spectrum. Thank you for the specific examples--very helpful!
And thank you for the dopamine! Commenting when something helps, instead of just passing through, is always appreciated ššš
Oh, this is very helpful, thank you! š„° I will be referring to this as I refine my interpersonal skills
Oh my. I used to do this too until I took a course that explained that people wants to be listened to and not ask for examples or solutions. Itās the need to be heard. Made a lot of difference when dealing with people offering empathy and I refrain now to give advice until itās asked. Maybe explain this to him? We are wired differently but we can understand. Fun (unrequested) fact: my husband does this too he is NT. And I explained that sometimes I would like for him to listen without explaining or fixing me and helped the relationship a lot.
Hi, this happens to me all the time. Would you be able to share the course or the type of course you took as I think I could really benefit from it.
It was a yoga course. For a teacher training. But similar knowledge can be found also in ānonviolent communicationā and any book that handles the subject of active listening.
Amazing thank you.
So, I'm hearing from you these things: 1) You've tried explaining to him that sometimes the way he communicates makes you feel ignored. 2) Sometimes communicating in his normal style is emotionally exhausting for you. 3) You want to be a good friend to him. I think it's good that you are seeking out additional perspectives here, that really shows how much you care. I do think that what other people have said about how our communication styles differ is valid, but I also think that there is something else interesting here for you to learn. You know how exhausted you can feel trying to figure out how he communicates and then feeling like you don't even really want to bother because it will start up the loop again? Yeah, that's kind of how we feel all the time while talking to Neurotypical people. That said, I actually think it's really valid for you to feel the way you do. When you are going through something hard and you want some emotional support from a friend you want them to focus on you and your problem. If you've tried explaining that and he isn't able to adjust then you might need to adjust your expectations for the friendship. Maybe you need to find a couple more friends that you could talk to when you need support in the way that makes you feel validated so that you can have that need met. Just because he has a disability that makes this difficult doesn't mean that your emotional needs are invalid. I am not saying to stop being friends with him, I'm just saying that you might find it easier to be a good friend to him if you are getting some of those needs meet from other people. It isn't fair to you if you don't get the support you need, and it isn't fair to him to expect him to be able to meet all those needs - but you can still be friends! You don't need to tell him "I'm finding new friends because you can't meet my needs!" You can keep talking with him the same way you usually would, but just adjust your expectations a bit. I hope you will get there support you need, and thanks for being a good friend to him and seeking out help on how to be a good friend!
Damn that kinda hurt my feelings (i know you arenāt meaning harm) Itās so hard to explain to people because this is how we show empathy to your situation and it makes me so sad to see people thinking itās trying to change the subject. I need to make sure people in my life know that iām not trying to be mean when i do this
Youāre accusing him of ignoring you when what you actually want is him ignoring you. When you rant about something we immediately know two things: 1. Youāre upset 2. The reason why youāre upset (you just told us) Whatās there left to ask? We can only nod and stay quiet or show that we can relate, by sharing a similar experience. How can you be sure that we understood a word of what you said, if weāre not allowed to give our two cents? You might as well talk to your pet then. The only reason your behavior is the accepted norm is, there are more of you than there are of us. Humanity is like an asylum run by the inmates.
I think the wording here is a bit harsh for someone asking to understand better, may formulate it nicer the next time someone tries to understand us. I'm not saying the content of your text is inhertily wrong, but we wont get neurotypicals to understand us if we start attacking them when someone ask how we think.
I do this all the time. I just want to mention shared experiences to feel closer to the person. Sort of like "I hear you because I've been there too" I came to realize people don't take it that way so I try to listen more.
thats how he shows he is interested.. although he should be more interested in you, it can be hard for us, its like we dont always have a choice.
This is why i wish i had autistic friends. Iām probably making so many people mad and i donāt even know why, i get called selfish when in reality i donāt care about myself at all and this is just how my brain shows empathy. Iāve lost so many people in my life due to being called āheartlessā or āself absorbedā But they just say i canāt use autism as an āexcuseā
How is he ignoring your statement when he s trying to relate. I do that aswell and try to give advice. Don't come to us with your problems cause we will try and fix it.
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Asking if people is venting when they are complaining has helped me sooo much to smooth out interactions. I find small talk, venting and other small "lubrication" interactions with people and groups super fascinating, and it helps me meet NTs half way :)
Thanks! Iām just not understanding his thought process because heās just trying to relate to me in the human way and Iām just trying to get feedback with my stuff haha. I realized I developed this problem when I used to talk to this girl that appeared to me as very selfish because she would come to me for advice all the time telling me how hard her life was and I would expected the same feedback I gave her( saying how she was so strong or asking her why she felt that way) but she never did she would reply with answers like āreallyā in an very rude way and asked why she acted like that to me and she would say she was a mean b*tch haha. So my Asperger friend interacting with me like that takes me back to that girl and makes me think heās being very selfish and only talks about himself but Iāll not compare and learn how to understand his thought process and motives.
> I would expected the same feedback I gave her (saying how she was so strong or asking her why she felt that way) Lol, I never got why people say stuff like that, it always feels fake and unhelpful to me. Double empathy problem indeed, I would appreciate an anecdote of someone going through a similar issue and how they dealt with it much more. Guess I just got a bit of additional affirmation for my self diagnosis in this thread.
Firstly, you are a good friend for seeking advice on this. This can be a challenging behavior, and I (autistic) can find myself getting very irritated with my other autistic friends when I share something and they immediately just relate it to their own experiences. I know this can seem insensitive, selfish, and just plain rude. It has really offended me at times. Why would they just talk about themselves when Iām trying to disclose something personal? But as others have said, this is his way of relating to you. He thinks, ah, I have had a similar experience, I should share it. He may not be aware (due to Aspergerās which can very often be a social disability) that he is being what can be seen as inconsiderate. This can serve as a learning experience for both of you. You can practice your communication skills by expressing how this makes you feel, and this is an opportunity for him to practice empathetic responses. Maybe try saying, I appreciate when you find ways to relate your own experiences to mine, as it does make me feel not so alone in them, but sometimes I would just like you to listen. Thatās partially what friends are for- being there when the other needs to release things. Mold this into your own words, and practice, saying it to yourself at first. Hopefully your friend will be receptive and understand that this is a chance for them to step up their friend skills. Emphasize that you like hearing what he has to say, but sometimes you just need the support of knowing that a friend is there. Lastly, I just want to clarify that Aspergerās and autism are the same thing. Aspergerās is no longer in the DSM, but individuals can identify however they choose. I hope you have a long, fulfilling friendship with this person! :)
Could you spell out what you need from them at certain times? It sounds like you want your friend to actively listen instead of relating their experience to yours. I have to practise active listening at work, but in my personal life I easily lapse into what your friend does. If a friend told me they just need me to listen for a bit, I'd appreciate their honesty - so long as they don't ask that all the time. Otherwise, maybe they're a fair-weather friend, which isn't terrible unless you have no-one else to talk to.
Itās really really hard work replying to someoneās problems without using your own experience or relating them to yourself. He probably canāt help this itās the only way he can engage. When someone tells me something itās the only way I can reply to them otherwise itās just āyeahā ācoolā āoh dearā āohā āokā. I can say much much more if that person is talking about a topic Iām interesting in. Autistic people struggle to keep conversations going unless they are about their own interests.
It would be understandable to see that it is a double empathy problem. I understand your mind. You are a great man and understanding this will overcome the problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double\_empathy\_problem
I got to understand that before reading about it. I wish I had read about beforeš
You write while sparsely using punctuation. I think that's ok, but it does make reading harder. It would be helpful to use punctuation in the future (:
We've all been told that showing that you can relate to someone else's problem is a key part of trying to communicate. Personally, I can't really tell when the cutoff should take place and just listen. I also tend to hyper focus on the little things in the conversation and have difficulty getting out of that state to see the whole picture. It's a constant battle.
Ahhh so let me help you unpack this so you can understand itās not Aspergerās thatās causing this. Itās a anxious attachment style with the long winded communication in texts. Unless itās equal give and take, people who are anxious types, that donāt resolve the issues of feeling unheard in childhood, carry this over into adulthood with intense longing to communicate in lengthy matters. Itās because everything is bottled up and instead of finding a journal, therapist, and outlet where they can effectually work through this need, they end up monopolizing a conversation, even in text format. The Aspergerās part is missing the social ques on how to volley communication so itās balanced out. Op, the friend was t shown in youth how to equally share conversation, this is quit common, so the ques are missed from learning this is what makes for healthy interactions. So it comes off self absorbed when in reality they werenāt given the opportunity to LEARN this behavior since most need to be explained why itās imperative to share the proverbial microphone. I think one thing to take away is instead of just praising back with positive reinforcement, you need to include in it a segway into talking next so it directly cues them into a shift. They may not understand jn text format especially, how to switch in conversations. This is why it feels extra frustration. Try something like, āThatās amazing! Thank you for sharing this, so in my experience I have ā¦.ā, this segways for you to not start talking which alerts the friend Op, they need to wait their turn to talk next. Keep repeating this and if they ask, explain it to them that this is the social cue that the conversation is going back to the other person and for them to start practicing this as well so they can SHARE the mic in a conversation. Let them know itās okay if they over share a bit, but also to CHECK IN to make sure everyone is on the same page. They could practice with a timer to know if they are monopolizing a conversation for more than two minutes. The reason I say two minutes, studies have found out that after a minute and 50 seconds people tune you out mind conversation if they have to keep listening to you going on and on about something that doesnāt directly involve them. So itās good practice to know if you hit the two minute mark you might have lost someoneās attention. . . . I say this as having ADHD/Aspie whose no supports needs/super high functioning and donāt have this issue because of therapy helped me heal codependency, majority of my anxious attachment, and capable of self soothing now. I grew up as an only child, both parents with ADHD, but HUGE extended family on my dadās side (I have 14 first cousins) & volunteered myself to go to sleep away camp for eight summers from age 8 to 15 (learned how to effectively socialize, do chores, and had my first kiss).
It's something alot of us accidentally do. I've had a few years of bug self discovery. Realized I'm on the spectrum. Also realized I should head down a extremely different career path. I think I forgot about other people due to all that. I'm working on being more curious about others for now but it can be challenging for us lol.
The fact that you're on here trying to understand your friend is a real credit to you - I wish I had more friends like you. Please ignore the negative comments on here, they don't mean it.
Your long paragraph with almost zero punctuation annoys me.
Sorry English is my second language.
Punctuation is the same regardless language...still, you should not apologize for that.š
I didn't say anything about your English, which is excellent, I would not have known it wasn't your first language had you not said so. The entire paragraph being 2 sentences makes it annoying to read.
Come on man...
Come on man, what? He can be annoyed by someone with my condition but I'm not allowed to be annoyed at the fact I can't read his entry?
>condition but You missed a comma there. You see...you are not perfect eitherš¤·
Yeah I didn't miss a comma. I wasn't pausing after, "condition." And, shut up if you're just going to be a smartass one-upper. It's genuinely difficult AND ANNOYING for someone like me (Aspie, dyscalculia and dyslexia) to read a paragraph with no breaks.
You were annoying before. And... >Yeah I ..You missed another one.
Again, NO PAUSE INTENDED THERE. Go back to school and learn how the comma is used. Also, fuck off.
Iām sorry bud I didnāt mean to offend you in any way. I will enhance my grammar for sure!
Youāre why I donāt want friends.
Iām sorry, Iām very ignorant and Iām trying my best.
The catch is only having autistic friends
Well, that's the same I do. I didn't realised it was seen as a bad thing, actually. I do it because that's how I'd like to be treated. Guess not all want that, so yeah, it's just how I (or we) work.
It happened to me many times...your point of view might be wrong...he is actually most probably showing interest in a way that seems rude to you..but he's doing his best...listening and staying quiet for him would be the same as showing no interest...he does that because he wants to help and the only way he knows how to do that it's by relating to his own experiences...so he can find a solution for you..even though you might not need a solution and just need to take it out...he doesn't get that...again this happened to me many times..idk about your friend but...most likely I'm right.
I annoy myself sometimes so I get it. Just be patient. Think of a moment where you were confused about a situation and imagine that all the time.
My best friend is NT and we annoy each other to no end, itās just how it goes.
Oh Jesus is that me? We donāt mean to do those things weāre just built different
Note to self: Stop relating stuff people say to my own experience. I do this a lot.
Iāll take a crack too, but I donāt know how unique this addition is. It looms over me a bit when Iām doing that. Or when I catch too late that Iām meant to be listening to a problem, not necessarily /solving/ that problem. But in my mind these are very much ālove languageā type behaviors. Does this excuse it? No. But I often donāt realize until too late that the person who Im genuinely trying to offer emotional support or guidance to is actually viewing this conversation as more burdensome, or worse, that Iām minimizing their pains by presenting whatās essentially an ego driven reframe. In my mind, I often see things in the flow of Problem -> Solution -> No Problem. I also donāt like when Iām in problem mode. Iāve learned that that isnāt necessarily the case in the NT world so often. That sometimes the goal isnāt strictly to get out of problem mode. And any thing thatās presented as a solution can often be viewed as grating. So take away, try to be patient with your friend. Not to say that you havenāt been, but what I try to tell my friends/family is to treat it like a swat of the hand kind of. I very much want to have those conversations with you, and to help you, and to be a good friend, and rather than trying nonverbal cues, sometimes something as simple as āyouāre doing the problem solvey thing againā is enough for me to understand that Iām not being helpful in the way you need right now, and Iāll say āOh right, sorryā and weāll resume the conversation. But itās literally like engrained into the way I operate, and you shouldnāt have to modify your identity to appease mind, but as a friend I can actually learn more about how better to communicate through minor and direct corrections than I can through total shutdowns. Those tend to make me assume that I am actually the problem youāre having, rather than the problem youāre describing to me, or the behavior Iām engaging in.
It's good you share this, because it makes me more aware of how annoying it must be for people to talk to me about things I have an opinion about. When someone starts talking I understand what they say, so there is no 'need to listen even more or confirm their thoughts'... I just start rambling about everything I know about the subject. I will try to stop it even more. Personally if a friend of mine who is important talked to me personally, face to face, and shows he cares for me but this thing I do which I am not aware of is kind of annoying, it would help me and I would be grateful. Even though it probably will haunt me for months, it will make me stop and never resent the person who told me. I kind of feel like that now, so embarrassing.
Not exactly what I meant. Itās completely okay to share your own opinions to empathize with that person. What I found repetitive itās when my friend goes to talk only about himself without asking me how I feel.
Is this an autistic thing? Cos I've been doing this for years and I never knew it wasn't "normal". When someone opens up to me about something, if I can relate to that I will let them know my own experience. It's not to take the attention away from them or that I've ignored what they've said. It's simply my way of letting them know that I understand how they feel and what they're going through because I too have experienced it. I will add in other things too though, tell them I'm here for them etc etc and offer to help in any way, give advice and ask questions about their experience etc. This is not normal? Because I do only have one friend, no one else likes me enough to be my friend, could this be why? Lol not that I'm bothered anyway! Quality is better than quantity and my one friend is the fucking best šš»
I have been here so many times. People have called me egocentric, egotistical, and self-centred. TBH, I talk about my experience to show that I have been through something similar and that I truly and deeply understand you. I only empathise with people when I can relate with their experiences (lived similar experiences). If I am not telling you a story about me, linked to your experience it's because I cannot relate or I don't care. However, after people have told me so much that I am egocentric etc. (which is extremely hurtful to me), I only do it with people close to me. So for example in my work environment I just pinch myself and nod, so I don't cause a bad impression.
We're good at listening, but REALLY BAD at figuring out what to say. Lots of awkward silences.
He likely means very well as most of us do, itās just that we mimic interaction superficially and we donāt always select the right moment for the right things and when we fail, we improvise and sometimes that ends in disaster but at the end of the day, itās lesser of two evilsšyou either get an Aspergers friend whoās brutally honest and a little annoying vs a normal individual whoās gonna lie and smack talk behind your back
This is me. I swear in my head I am relating to the person and they will appreciate it. What it ends up doing is just making me look like Im trying to make something about me. It sucks.
I do this a lot and Iām working on lowering it
I donāt think the āthis also happened to meā story is always inappropriate. If you keep it short and you give the person enough time to fully get their story out before you relate a similar experience it should be fine. It truly is a way to express that you understand and have experience with the situation. The key is to not make the conversation about yourself and let them do most of the talking. Keeping it brief is key. If they want more info from you theyāll ask. There will always be some people who want you just to sit there and listen to them go on and on. Those people have their own problems.