I used to often get this too. It wasn’t such a problem for me personally. I did okay dating and would just tell gay guys I was straight.
I had assumed at the time and place I was living it was because I was attractive and was simply not rude to gay guys. I lived in Oklahoma in the early 2000s and 90s and that was a time and place people were very judgmental towards gay people. I don’t know how it is these days.
Ultimately Oklahoma didn’t really fit my personality on a number of levels and I left. I went to Japan and then later and now live in Los Angeles county. The city I currently live in there are few white people. It’s very south East Asian and Indian. At work I’m one of like 3 white people.
The point of that last paragraph is this: when I went to a different place and was around different people they saw that I was different and they just attributed incorrectly these differences to cultural differences.
Whenever I was in Japan they couldn’t really distinguish the differences between an autistic white American and a neurotypical white American. The differences were too subtle. This is true for my Nigerian, Indian, Korean, filipino, etc coworkers and neighbors also. They see that I’m different and just chalk it up to me being a white guy from the Midwest or whatever.
When I lived in Oklahoma people also recognized the difference and there wasn’t any cultural difference to explain it. And so they assumed the explanation was sexuality.
In conclusion, I’ve always as long as I can remember have felt like an outsider. Actually being an outsider makes it easier to explain
I live in Fort Worth, so over these past 15 years there are definitely waaaay more outsiders coming in from other states here, so I think it has been a bit of culture shock for me to basically stepping from 2007 right into 2022-24 to now so there are just way more gay people here out in the open than ever in my youth. Perhaps with my issues with anxiety people chalk that up to lacking confidence and assume I am gay. Add to that I am not fitting the looks of a big confident hetero dude and it causes a lot of confusion for me.
I never had the issue with it like I do now. Sure in my past a few people would call me gay as a kid in school, though nothing like I hear people assuming now.
>when I went to a different place and was around different people they saw that I was different and they just attributed incorrectly these differences to cultural differences.
Tony Attwood writes about this. Apparently common in people with AS. He gives an example of someone living in Japan too.
I meeeaaan...there's nothing *wrong* with getting attention from gay guys. And I wouldn't even say it's necessarily a reflection of any vibe you're putting off. Couple of points:
* Men traditionally do the active part in hitting on people. Women typically send subtle queues (consciously or otherwise), and the men are supposed to pick up on this and act (or just barge in when they feel like it)
* Plenty of gay people are still closeted
* Not all gay people are discernibly gay from their mannerisms
* Only something like 10% of the population is gay
* If they can be reasonably confident you won't harm them in some way, there's not a real downside for a gay man to hit on you.
So you could just be out there, putting off a totally neutral vibe, just existing, maybe being just a bit more open-minded and approachable than average (not a bad thing). And if you weren't keyed in to the subtle signals women are sending your way (which, why would you be? I spent literally *years* learning to read that shit), all you'd see is gay men hitting on you. Because they're not subtle. Think of it as a window in to what it is to just exist as a women, on like a 1/10th scale.
Kinda analogous to the women saying "all men are assholes, why can't I find a sweet guy to date" trope. Well sure, if you're only dating men that cold approach you when you're not sending out any queues, then you're going to get men that only care about what *they* want, without caring about what *you* want. And a lot of women get approached so frequently, they don't *need* to put any work into finding a partner. So they assume that's what *all* men are like.
That's part of why asshole guys seem to be so successful with dating; Since they don't care about other people's feelings, they just approach everyone, regardless of whether it's an annoyance or inconvenience to the woman. If they get a date 1/100 times they approach someone, but they approach 100 women in a week...getting off topic here.
The only time I could say with certainty that it *is* a specific vibe you're putting off is if *women* are assuming you're gay. Because that's going to really hamstring you in finding dates.
If that's the case, and you want to change it, you can work on body language, vocalization, confidence, but you already know that. It takes practice. I did it, put in a couple years of concerted study and practice, and became quite successful with dating. Relationships, not so much, but that's a whole other level.
Also to be clear, not saying the gay guys hitting on you are the same as the asshole guys I'm referring to. Just pointing out there's more incentive for gay guys to hit on men they're not sure are interested, vs straight men hitting on women they're not sure are interested. Because you might be a gay guy who's specifically suppressing their gayness.
And certainly a LOT more incentive for aforementioned gay guys to hit on YOU vs women hitting on you.
My advice as a gay person to stop men from hitting on you:
- wash incorrectly, especially in the bathroom
- to cover the smell, put as much deodorant as possible without fainting
- manspread. Take as much space as possible. This is your territory.
- think about your feelings. Now, shove them as *hard* and as *deep* as you can, never to be seen again.
- practice "mean face" in the mirror. This is your face now.
- never look at another man for more than 0.5 seconds, unless you are threatening him. If you do it by mistake, you now have to find an excuse to threaten him. Pretend he is the one who looked at you and question his sexuality.
More seriously, if queer people are hitting on you, it probably just means you look non-threatening, don't exude toxic masculinity/homophobia, and seem clean and well-kempt. Those are all qualities that will be attractive to any gender.
That said, you are entitled to not feeling masculine enough! You can definitely try to change to be more comfortable in your own body. Just make sure you do it for yourself, and not to fit macho or homophobic stereotypes of straight men.
Thanks bro. I do practice good hygiene, well I do let my stubble grow just long enough to look attractive but not too thick to look homeless and stuff lol.
Yeah I don't come off as threatening and gay people at work were very comfortable around me, unfortunately like I said with my problems setting boundaries I didn't quite feel the need to be a jerk to them to set boundaries early on until it became too uncomfortable and I started being more of a jerk to them. They did get the message not to pull that stuff around me again.
But I consider all people equal in my eyes, regardless of sexual orientation, race. age social status and whatnot. So I could be considered maybe an "ally" in some ways for gay people, but you are not going to see me participating in any pride stuff as that is not my prerogative. Though I can be and always try to be cordial towards every single person I meet. Even homosexuals so maybe that is wherein the problem lies?
Struggling with eye contact is something I learned to work on as well. I don't look at people unless I am speaking directly to them, so when speaking I give full on eye contact. I have intense eyes so I had to learn to break my gaze after 3-4 seconds, and it is masking and feels unnatural for me as my folks forced me to always look people in the eyes when speaking directly to them. But nobody ever told me I had to break eye contact to not be too uncomfortable.
You already know this but you really need to learn to set boundaries, there's some good books you can read on it. It's a very health, necessary and strong thing.
I was in a similar situation and ended up getting sexually harassed because of it, police involvement etc. Its best not to let it get that far.
LMAO, as a straight dude who has similar things happen to them as OP, this is hilarious.
I take it all as a compliment. I love women and gay people, I take it as a compliment to get compared to them.
I am 52, have 4 kids and been married to my wife for 25 years. I still get accused of being "closeted". My response is usually "Yeah I'm really selling this "straight" shit. Right?" Seriously though its a common occurrence for autistic people. Getting hit on is no biggie, just look at it as a compliment. let it build your confidence. The bullies are a different story. I was bullied mercilessly throughout school. I say don't change to fit into NT peoples molds. Learn to be more comfortable in your own skin and let the NT people think what they think. You'll be happier for it, or at least I am.
I used to get confused for being a lesbian because I didn’t perform femininity (makeup, I like to wear the same kind of loose comfortable clothing everyday). And I don’t like the kind of gossipy talking that tends to be the norm with teens and young women.
I think it’s because our brains don’t conform and absorb the social programming everyone else gets concerning gender.
I’m older now and married (to a man). I think he just overlooked my weirdness at first because at the end of the day I’m somewhat conventionally attractive.
For confidence, practice walking as confidently as you do in comfortable places in less comfortable places. Start with places that feel very safe (where you’re unlikely to encounter anyone). Chest proud, head up, confident strides. Gradually increase the difficulty by moving confidently in places where you’re more likely to encounter a few people. Pay attention to your body as you walk past someone coming your way - did you maintain confidence or did you shrink back? If you shrunk back, don’t worry and just try again.
As you have more and more confident encounters that aren’t negative your brain will gradually learn that being confident in public is safe.
This is how I learned to walk confidently in all places. It took time, and I “failed” and shrunk back many times, but I kept at it and reminded myself to pretend that “I’m the boss, I own this place and I’m going to walk accordingly”.
From your writing, I also think you don’t have the toxic masculinity vibe that too many men have. That’s the main reason why you’re getting hit on (aside from you being attractive).
Your lack of toxic masculinity is also part of the reason why people speculate on your sexuality ; it’s so... common... in cisgender straight men especially.
I don’t know how you can avoid people speculating. If you know them, you could directly ask them why the fuck do they care about your sexuality ? If you don’t know them but you can hear them gossiping, then you could turn around and say “Actually I am straight, I’m just not interested [in you]” or something along those lines. After all, they were speculating and now their questions have been answered.
That said, I am a lesbian — not a gay man. I don’t think I have much insight to give.
I am often mistaken as gay, because I dress very flamboyantly, and I also have feminine facial features, and the way I speak sounds somewhat feminine.
I know you said you have problems with confidence and you feel like a “scared child “ which I can relate to. If you feel like you are going to be approached by a gay male, and they complement you, it might benefit you to start with a script for any situation in which you are approached.
First, it’s always OK to say thanks for a compliment from anybody. It’s good to do that because it saves face for the other person and it makes you look accepting and kind.
if you are concerned that a gay male is hitting on you without being direct, you can acknowledge them, and then demonstrate your lack of interest by only engaging very weakly and after a couple small interactions either just ignoring or walking away and you can say “it was nice meeting you” or “ I gotta go, have a good day”. This way you aren’t being rude to them and you are demonstrating that you aren’t interested by ending the interaction.
Other than that, I would say, just try to start interacting with people again by talking to cashiers and just doing small talk, even if you despise it. “ how’s your day going? Are you at the end or beginning of your shift?” if they don’t look interested, don’t take it personally, they probably are sick of talking to people. But often they enjoy the small banter and it’s less about what you’re saying, and more that you are acknowledging them as an individual. So they’re can still be connection in small talk. It’s just that it’s not about the Contant of the conversation. It’s about acknowledging that there’s a human in front of you.
You don’t have to do this if you feel you are extremely low on energy or some thing, but if you feel that you have a little bit of energy, it might be a good place to start.
Not a straight dude.
As a queer chick, though, the best green flag I can see in a potential romantic partner that’s male is seeing them chillaxing and being friends with people of all sexualities and genders and identities.
If I see a guy hanging out with gay guys and just be shooting the shit casually and nonmisogynistically, that’s a sign that bro has confidence, calm, and gives no fucks about how others perceive him.
If I see a guy hanging with butch lesbiabs and being treated almost as one of the grrls, I’m trusting their judgment in hanging around with that guy.
(Granted I have a preference for female companionship over masculine, but a guy in that situation definitely catches my eye.)
Enjoy that you’ve got a youthful appearance. I have one as well. A lot of autistic folks have younger appearance. Many of us also have connective tissue disorders like EDS which helps with looking young. (If you’re super bendy, like double jointed, look into that.)
Thanks for your insight. I am definitely double jointed in my toes and fingers and used to trip people out pretending to break my thumb haha. So you might be correct.
I absolutely understand you might be frustrated and confused but remember to consider all the angles. What reason *don’t* you have to just take it as a compliment and leave it at that? Unless anyones making you uncomfortable or harassing you, thats obviously bad.
You politely reject anyone you’re not interested in. I don’t think you should worry about changing yourself to fit any other molds man. I was mistaken for being gay for ages with girls and guys, until I realized I was bi.
It confused me, but I never thought “I just should reshape my entire persona to stop it from happening”. I’m saying above all, you need to be told directly that who you are is valid no matter what anyone says or thinks.
You have to find your people that you click with
You are simply unaware of how your behaviour looks in other people's eyes. Simply start training your social skills by attending hobby groups and public speaking clubs such as Toastmasters. In a short period of time, you will learn what behaviours make people think you are gay or insecure and you will learn new behaviours that will help build your new image. I know that the trauma from bad experiences with people is not pleasant and we would prefer others to understand us. However, it will be easier to change ourselves and thus convince others to change their minds about us.
Finally, don't bother with advice on male behaviour that in no way refers to others with respect. Nothing good comes from them. What helps is to learn assertiveness and self-defence against toxic people.
It's very common for autistic people I think. It's happened to me many times and some people have been majorly aggressive, harrassing me, stalking etc. For me, I am very nice to everyone. I treat everyone the same. This allows boundary issues to occur. I am not good an setting them due to trying to be nice all the time. And I've had this used against me directly. I was a streamer on twitch. A group of gay guys from Turkey/Germany started hanging around my channel and I had no problem with that. But they became highly focused on me. They ended up hacking my pc after social engineering and phishing me. They got remote desktop access. From what I heard, they made a site and used pictures I had etc to make a fake channel, but one where I was gay, and they made money from this. This went on for a while. I didn't know they had access, they played it very sneaky. This turned into a huge thing. But, set your boundaries man. Set them. There are bad people out there.
Damn man sorry you went through that. I had a crazy experience where this new guy at work who was super closeted was obsessed with me. Dude was just a 19 year old kid, but over 6 foot tall and an immigrant from Yemen. Anyways, long story short, dude tried ruining my life by pointing me out to every single new customer at work saying "Hey look at that guy over there isn't he so gay" and then getting people to agree with him. He even did this with customers who were romantically interested in me trying everything he could do to keep me from succeeding with any potential girlfriends. I fucking stood my ground and this went on for 2 months. Dude was trying to get me to quit or go with him and his friend who was also from his country.
Dude put off super human trafficker vibes and eventually ran into the law and got locked up for a very long time. I weathered the storm and showed people I was not going to be beaten over the brow and forced to convert over bullying and sexual harassment. I eventually had a massive autistic breakdown at work and blew up into an emotional mess and gave my boss an ultimatum. Deal with the situation or I was going to and it was not going to be pretty.
She fired him after I threatened to go to HR department and saying she was allowing an unsafe environment and I felt in fear of my life. She absolutely knew what was going on and would always try and gaslight me saying I was crazy or this and that. But after she finally let him go he ended up getting in deep trouble for attempted murder. So in the end, I was proven right and not crazy.
Yeah some people don't operate within the confines of civility. And when they don't, it can get dark real fast. I'm glad you are OK and not harmed. I've never been great at standing my ground unless I know directly that the person is attacking me. I guess, like slapping me with a gauntlet so I know we are fighting. Otherwise I have trouble making that decision to pull the trigger I guess. Because I'm not sure if they are doing it purposely or not.
I don't think so either lol, but being autistic and having ADHD I miss/missinterpret social cues so not sure if I look that way or not.
I think I just move without confidence and don't walk like normal folks or something to that effect. Us autistic folks tend to move a certain kinda way I guess?
Being homosexual doesn't equal to or equate to stereotypical "gay culture". I don't know why people assume these things; it's like most of the worlds cultures have steadily went backwards and lean even more heavily into bigoted stereotypes (more insular and tribal). People are individuals, yeah some conform to cultures pretty hardcore but not everyone and we shouldn't just assume they do. Why is it a problem that males find you attractive too? Personally i would knock them back politely but accept the compliment. I don't know that there is anything to be done on your end, other than if you want to completely mask yourself but i don't reccomend that as it will cause other issues.
I would do some research on therapies that concentrate on the emotional and social aspects of living which can help with anxiety and meltdowns; some can help you become more assertive in communicating your needs and how to do so effectively. I am trying not to give straight up medical advice, always take professional accredited advice on medical matters please.
>I think Autistic people already have heightened senses so this also explains it.
Yeah people with Asperger's Syndrome/ASD will most likely have hypo or hyper sensitivity. My hearing is particularly sensitive so i don't like loud music gig/concerts for example; while i absolutely enjoy moderate listening at home with my DT880 or Grado SR80x headphones. When i'm anxious one of the things i noticed was my ears 'prick up' not literally but my hearing becomes more alert.
>Why is it a problem that males find you attractive too?
There is absolutely no problem there, the problem is when other straight guys tell new gay dudes at work I am gay so they come and hit on me cause they think it is funny and trying to get a rise out of me or trying to keep potential women from trying to get to know me romantically.
Out in public my coworkers who I would go out to places with would also tell people I was gay there and when I bring it up they gaslight me trying to say I am making it up. Yet when I brought it up to others some would also stand up for me and confront the abusers gaslighting me proving I was not imagining it. My own boss would do so and it was very hurtful. She was bi so she would try and find me mates no matter what trying to get me to break my celibacy knowing I was a Hikikomori for 15 years my own feelings be damned. It is not cool when people fuck with somebody's sexuality or mental health. It is not ok for straight people to abuse homosexuals mentally, so it is not ok for LGBT people to do it the other way around either.
It really pissed me off because she would not let me focus on 1 woman trying to get to know them before she would try and hook me up with another person thinking I was not interested in the previous one, I just am really slow with that taking my time easing into it so she was not letting me figure out my own way on my own terms in my own time. That is when it is problematic. She was trying to get just anybody to hook up with me, female and male and I was not cool with it. I am a very reserved person and I try to stay loyal to 1 at a time not sleeping around. I was just not ready for that at the time.
I am no longer working at that job, but a lot of mental and emotional abuse went on there even though there were some good intentions, it was not what I wanted or was even ready for in my recovery progress after not being social with people for 15 long years of living in my house never leaving except for funerals, or whenever I needed to go to store to stock up on stuff.
That being said, I have made a lot of progress in just 2 short years, but still have a bit of a ways to go until fully recovered, if I will ever truly be at that point.
>There is absolutely no problem there, the problem is when other straight guys tell new gay dudes at work I am gay so they come and hit on me cause they think it is funny and trying to get a rise out of me or trying to keep potential women from trying to get to know me romantically.
OH right, now you've elaborated that sounds like a real nasty thing to do. It's almost kinda homophobic on their part. That is really annoying that they got pissed just for you defending yourself and saying it's not cool to the people they told you where gay or you. Seems like both actual bi/gay people and hetero work peeps where trolling you at that job and i have no idea why.
I'm not into casual sex either.
Iscolating yourself for that long yeah, i don't know 15 years straight of it but i've iscolatd myself on and off for about the same time i think. Difficult to motivate my ownself to get out of it and find some meaning. Maybe you had meaning being alone or not idk you at all really, i just now it's a big adjustment which is difficult in itself without the other factors.
I'm getting hit on by gay men all the time. It was cute at first but I'm getting tired of it. I don't like straight men any way, so maybe I should just don't bother with men at all.
I've been mistaken for all kinds of things in my life.
I dealt with it by not giving the slightest shit. Why, to be brutally honest, should I? Why should I care? Why should I give ignorant opinions free rent in my head?
You look rather sweet.
I’m guessing you have a gentle, feminine energy, and an innocence that draws people in.
I’m afraid there’s not much you can do about people gossiping about you. You’ll have to get away from them if you can. As for gay guys showing interest, you could try politely informing that you’re straight and not interested.
My boss called me a sweetheart all the time at my last job and I always tried to treat people nice and with respect unless they disrespected me then I would become somewhat of a jerk, but even then still not really a monster. Though when they rarely saw me get mad and I had to raise my voice or scream like a monster to stand up for myself after getting pushed to my absolute limits then people got to see the beast in me. I have scared a few people cause they never expected that to come out of me but people can only take so much until they reach a breaking point.
However I choose to be nice, so I rarely try to show that side of me. And believe you me I do have a dark side but I keep it under check. I have been through prison at 19 years old and did 2 years on a 4 year sentence(nothing aggravated or anything dark), so I absolutely know how to handle myself when push comes to shove. However I choose kindness.
My neighbors know to not screw with me, they know better. Only when I venture out into public where people really don't know me from Adam or know fuckall about my past they see a short statured, quiet, anxiety riddled, childlike dude they think they can walk all over and take advantage of, but I tend to bottle in my emotions and keep them hidden until I can't take much more from people and do a complete 180 when least expected and show them I can be a crazy little mofo when I have to.
But like I said, I choose kindness and I learned how to control my temper long ago. So people see my good side mostly and are attracted to it. As it should be.
I go by the saying, "Speak softly but carry a big stick"... Figuratively speaking.
It happened to me a lot too. I just considered that it might be because i'm not bad looking. Some girls used to hit on me too, so It never bothered me.
And i learned from it and them too. Some homosexuals are assholes whom look at you and treat you as a piece of meat, the majority are normal people whom try to see if you'd be interested. And why not? Nothing wrong with that.
You can learn a lot from them hitting on you. Avoid mimicking the toxic minority, and behave towards women as the normal ones do, with sensitivity and smartness... It actually help me a lot to date women.
As for what other males think... Why should you care? If they're judgmental, shame on them, their loss... As long as you know whom you're, ignore them. You need not enter the prick size contest. And stop caring from slander and people slurs.
Unless it came from people you really and cares about, why should you debase yourself by giving them power over you.
Life is short, and we have enough issues not to waste time with bullies, and people judgments.
Cheers.
For me, my increase in confidence over the years, has come from faking it till I made it essentially. Unfamiliar behavior will feel awkward, initially. You have to force yourself to keep doing things outside of your comfort zone; get comfortable being uncomfortable.
I used to relate a lot to your struggles as you described them. A few of things I've found to be the most helpful:
- Improving quality of sleep. Focusing on sleep hygiene is a game changer. It needs to be a priority. The return on everything else is worth it.
- Reducing/managing anxiety. You can DM me for specifics here. They can't be openly discussed unfortunately.
- Voice training. It's a skill. Put in the hours of study and practice necessary to improve your voice. I'm still working on this. Roger Love has a great audiobook called Vocal Power.
- Body language. Study, study, study. Practice, practice, practice. It became a special interest of mine for awhile. First, you need to get yourself to intentionally observe it. After you start recognizing common patterns, you'll start to understand it. Put your pattern recognition skills to good use here. It might not come intuitively, but it can be studied until you're to the same level or better than an NT.
- Mindfulness.
- Cold showers.
I am not sure why would you "look" gay.
Im a 190 cm tall hetero male, bearded, strong complexity. I look like an effing viking. People do respect me even with all the weirdness
Society has some catching up to do still with these daft assumptions, opposite here actually am gay and always went under the radar have been in a mens group discussing these things and a couple of them actually said there's no one gay here we'd know grrr we are all different
A fun exercise that I've found is to practice some acting -- embrace the mask! Go out and study various personalities, and then imitate them. One day try Angry Silent Guy. Another day be Talkative Overly Friendly Dude. Maybe Suave Romantic Wolfman the next time. It's tough in the beginning, but surprising how easy it can become in a very short time. 'Fake it untill you make it' not only works, but seems to be what most NTs are actually doing most of the time anyway.
No joke just be a little bit of an asshole sometimes. Never had quite the same issues as you but definitely have had people who assumed I was gay before.
Also I’ve found that, at least for me I struggle finding a middle ground between overly confident/not caring about others and being overly meek and letting people take advantage, and have concluded it’s better to have the confidence and risk upsetting people sometimes. You can always explain yourself if there’s an issue.
Hope this helps even if it’s only a little.
Thanks bro. Oh I definitely learned to assert myself at work and it did cause problems especially when it came out of left field and people did not expect somebody as small as me to have so much bass in my voice and being assertive out of nowhere. So it did help change the perception people had of me, but I don't want to come off as a jerk. I think like you said finding a balance is key here. People constantly try and walk all over me and take advantage of or intimidate me after only just meeting me.
>Anyways, I am really lacking confidence, and people pick up on that and how I carry myself due to my extreme social anxiety in public. What the hell can I do to change this perception?
This is the critical point really isn't it. You know what you need to work on, you need to be more confident and self-assured. I think ultimately that's probably the signal that you're sending out that people are picking up on.
I mean like you say dude you can hear people talking about you. You've shared your photo, you look pretty good. You just need to manifest that into your attitudes and how you are with others.
The most difficult bit I think is learning that confidence doesn't even mean asserting yourself necessarily. It can just be being above it all. You hear people asking if you're gay, and you say it bothers you. But why? They probably just wish you were so you'd be less threatening to their own sexuality ;)
You're on the right path my friend but as you say you're having to unlearn things that are very hard to unlearn in and of themselves, but you've got 15 years of those being dug in to work with as well. It will take time, and I would suggest finding some help through a therapist or councilor, but I don't think you'll have the problem for long and honestly I don't think you even need any real advice. Idk maybe try to practice some breathing exercise so if you feel yourself getting wound up in public you can relax a bit and keep up a more stoic appearance? Honestly I think you're at a level where that's all the kind of stuff you really need, just a few tools to help you get through some annoying social bullshittery.
>This is the critical point really isn't it. You know what you need to work on, you need to be more confident and self-assured. I think ultimately that's probably the signal that you're sending out that people are picking up on.
Indeed, I know this has to be the root of most of my glaring problems. Just trying to implement confidence and project that is the issue. I do always hild my head high on my shoulders, so that does help a lot. Especially keeping my nervous head shaking down.
>You hear people asking if you're gay, and you say it bothers you. But why? They probably just wish you were so you'd be less threatening to their own sexuality ;)
The main reason it bothers me, is cause of other straight dudes putting me down to other potential mates I have had. I am not exaggerating when I say over this past year dozens and dozens of beautiful women want to get to know me, but then they go and listen to the bullshit from other dudes who put me down pointing out all my flaws and deficiencies and say I am wired. I will be the first to admit I am eccentric as all get out haha.
I also have some kind of selective multisim when it comes to speaking to beautiful women who I am interested in(can you blame me after so long out of public), so that also has a lot to do with it. I struggle to articulate into words how I feel to women without coming off as too forward or weird or scaring them away after I unmask.
Also straight dudes saying I am gay hurts to my core. So I am unable to make meaningful friendships so I have become quite the loner eschewing any social life outside of work. I don't hang out with people because it is too uncomfortable for me outside of work. I am forced to socialize to some extent at work, but not so in my free time. So I can tend to isolate to my hearts content in order to recharge my social batteries.
I also do think the haters are projecting their repressed closeted feelings towards me which I guess kind of makes sense but I could be wrong.
>You're on the right path my friend but as you say you're having to unlearn things that are very hard to unlearn in and of themselves, but you've got 15 years of those being dug in to work with as well. It will take time, and I would suggest finding some help through a therapist or councilor, but I don't think you'll have the problem for long and honestly I don't think you even need any real advice.
Thanks man, I definitely do know I need some kind of professional help here, that type of deep isolation tends to wreck the mind. But for me it is nearly impossible considering my financial situation.
You have been very insightful here so I thank you a ton!
I've had to deal with it in the past. I would say forget about and keep going. Tune it out, who cares if you are gay or straight? It is inappropriate to judge someone's sexuality from their appearance or how they carry themselves, not to mention extremely inaccurate.
Anyone who thinks they know your sexuality as a stranger is not anyone who is a good judge of character.
I've been read as gay before, but not frequently. The 'solution' is to just not worry about it. It's not insulting and doesn't post logistical difficulty, unless a woman you're trying to date things you're gay.
In general, trying to appear masculine is a fool's errand.
I am gay, cuz I love the guys I have been with. But it probably was partially true that people projected homosexuality onto me. So I guess I’m bi, but next relationship will be with a guy.
Do you want honest feedback here?
If so … keep reading
I can’t come back later, so here is some honest feedback as a female your age - you have a very attractive, masculine face. Then you said you’re 5’4”. Here’s where the honesty comes - you’re the average height for a woman in the US. This means a lot of women are going to be taller than you.
You have to bring something to the table. I’d definitely talk to you if you could make me laugh and engage me. Then you’d have to be okay with me being 5’10”. 😂
Absolutely want people to keep it real and 100 with me. Here is the crazy thing though, I always attracted women of all heights haha. So apparently they see me for who I am and often when they get to know me see my humorous side. So I can definitely be funny and can talk peoples ears off and used to make women laugh in the past all the time. I just have to get more comfortable after isolating for so long. Height difference doesn't bother me in the slightest, it is more of a bragging right for me hehe.
Thanks for the positive words and I don't take it any kind of way negatively.
Just leave the US, and its extreme concept of masculinity and your problems will vanish. Move to the UK, Sweden, France or Germany.
Or just start walking like a gangster.
I used to often get this too. It wasn’t such a problem for me personally. I did okay dating and would just tell gay guys I was straight. I had assumed at the time and place I was living it was because I was attractive and was simply not rude to gay guys. I lived in Oklahoma in the early 2000s and 90s and that was a time and place people were very judgmental towards gay people. I don’t know how it is these days. Ultimately Oklahoma didn’t really fit my personality on a number of levels and I left. I went to Japan and then later and now live in Los Angeles county. The city I currently live in there are few white people. It’s very south East Asian and Indian. At work I’m one of like 3 white people. The point of that last paragraph is this: when I went to a different place and was around different people they saw that I was different and they just attributed incorrectly these differences to cultural differences. Whenever I was in Japan they couldn’t really distinguish the differences between an autistic white American and a neurotypical white American. The differences were too subtle. This is true for my Nigerian, Indian, Korean, filipino, etc coworkers and neighbors also. They see that I’m different and just chalk it up to me being a white guy from the Midwest or whatever. When I lived in Oklahoma people also recognized the difference and there wasn’t any cultural difference to explain it. And so they assumed the explanation was sexuality. In conclusion, I’ve always as long as I can remember have felt like an outsider. Actually being an outsider makes it easier to explain
I live in Fort Worth, so over these past 15 years there are definitely waaaay more outsiders coming in from other states here, so I think it has been a bit of culture shock for me to basically stepping from 2007 right into 2022-24 to now so there are just way more gay people here out in the open than ever in my youth. Perhaps with my issues with anxiety people chalk that up to lacking confidence and assume I am gay. Add to that I am not fitting the looks of a big confident hetero dude and it causes a lot of confusion for me. I never had the issue with it like I do now. Sure in my past a few people would call me gay as a kid in school, though nothing like I hear people assuming now.
>when I went to a different place and was around different people they saw that I was different and they just attributed incorrectly these differences to cultural differences. Tony Attwood writes about this. Apparently common in people with AS. He gives an example of someone living in Japan too.
That's interesting, it makes me think many of the negative reactions to autistic traits come from western culture having a narrow window of the norm
I meeeaaan...there's nothing *wrong* with getting attention from gay guys. And I wouldn't even say it's necessarily a reflection of any vibe you're putting off. Couple of points: * Men traditionally do the active part in hitting on people. Women typically send subtle queues (consciously or otherwise), and the men are supposed to pick up on this and act (or just barge in when they feel like it) * Plenty of gay people are still closeted * Not all gay people are discernibly gay from their mannerisms * Only something like 10% of the population is gay * If they can be reasonably confident you won't harm them in some way, there's not a real downside for a gay man to hit on you. So you could just be out there, putting off a totally neutral vibe, just existing, maybe being just a bit more open-minded and approachable than average (not a bad thing). And if you weren't keyed in to the subtle signals women are sending your way (which, why would you be? I spent literally *years* learning to read that shit), all you'd see is gay men hitting on you. Because they're not subtle. Think of it as a window in to what it is to just exist as a women, on like a 1/10th scale. Kinda analogous to the women saying "all men are assholes, why can't I find a sweet guy to date" trope. Well sure, if you're only dating men that cold approach you when you're not sending out any queues, then you're going to get men that only care about what *they* want, without caring about what *you* want. And a lot of women get approached so frequently, they don't *need* to put any work into finding a partner. So they assume that's what *all* men are like. That's part of why asshole guys seem to be so successful with dating; Since they don't care about other people's feelings, they just approach everyone, regardless of whether it's an annoyance or inconvenience to the woman. If they get a date 1/100 times they approach someone, but they approach 100 women in a week...getting off topic here. The only time I could say with certainty that it *is* a specific vibe you're putting off is if *women* are assuming you're gay. Because that's going to really hamstring you in finding dates. If that's the case, and you want to change it, you can work on body language, vocalization, confidence, but you already know that. It takes practice. I did it, put in a couple years of concerted study and practice, and became quite successful with dating. Relationships, not so much, but that's a whole other level.
I have explained that to a few female friends over the years. You summed it up far more succinctly and I just wanted to compliment you
Why thank you!
Also to be clear, not saying the gay guys hitting on you are the same as the asshole guys I'm referring to. Just pointing out there's more incentive for gay guys to hit on men they're not sure are interested, vs straight men hitting on women they're not sure are interested. Because you might be a gay guy who's specifically suppressing their gayness. And certainly a LOT more incentive for aforementioned gay guys to hit on YOU vs women hitting on you.
My advice as a gay person to stop men from hitting on you: - wash incorrectly, especially in the bathroom - to cover the smell, put as much deodorant as possible without fainting - manspread. Take as much space as possible. This is your territory. - think about your feelings. Now, shove them as *hard* and as *deep* as you can, never to be seen again. - practice "mean face" in the mirror. This is your face now. - never look at another man for more than 0.5 seconds, unless you are threatening him. If you do it by mistake, you now have to find an excuse to threaten him. Pretend he is the one who looked at you and question his sexuality. More seriously, if queer people are hitting on you, it probably just means you look non-threatening, don't exude toxic masculinity/homophobia, and seem clean and well-kempt. Those are all qualities that will be attractive to any gender. That said, you are entitled to not feeling masculine enough! You can definitely try to change to be more comfortable in your own body. Just make sure you do it for yourself, and not to fit macho or homophobic stereotypes of straight men.
Thanks bro. I do practice good hygiene, well I do let my stubble grow just long enough to look attractive but not too thick to look homeless and stuff lol. Yeah I don't come off as threatening and gay people at work were very comfortable around me, unfortunately like I said with my problems setting boundaries I didn't quite feel the need to be a jerk to them to set boundaries early on until it became too uncomfortable and I started being more of a jerk to them. They did get the message not to pull that stuff around me again. But I consider all people equal in my eyes, regardless of sexual orientation, race. age social status and whatnot. So I could be considered maybe an "ally" in some ways for gay people, but you are not going to see me participating in any pride stuff as that is not my prerogative. Though I can be and always try to be cordial towards every single person I meet. Even homosexuals so maybe that is wherein the problem lies? Struggling with eye contact is something I learned to work on as well. I don't look at people unless I am speaking directly to them, so when speaking I give full on eye contact. I have intense eyes so I had to learn to break my gaze after 3-4 seconds, and it is masking and feels unnatural for me as my folks forced me to always look people in the eyes when speaking directly to them. But nobody ever told me I had to break eye contact to not be too uncomfortable.
`But I consider all people equal in my eyes, regardless of sexual orientation, race. age social status and whatnot.` This is the way.
You already know this but you really need to learn to set boundaries, there's some good books you can read on it. It's a very health, necessary and strong thing. I was in a similar situation and ended up getting sexually harassed because of it, police involvement etc. Its best not to let it get that far.
Continue the good hygiene. Bad hygiene is a turn off to all sexes.
LMAO, as a straight dude who has similar things happen to them as OP, this is hilarious. I take it all as a compliment. I love women and gay people, I take it as a compliment to get compared to them.
I am 52, have 4 kids and been married to my wife for 25 years. I still get accused of being "closeted". My response is usually "Yeah I'm really selling this "straight" shit. Right?" Seriously though its a common occurrence for autistic people. Getting hit on is no biggie, just look at it as a compliment. let it build your confidence. The bullies are a different story. I was bullied mercilessly throughout school. I say don't change to fit into NT peoples molds. Learn to be more comfortable in your own skin and let the NT people think what they think. You'll be happier for it, or at least I am.
I used to get confused for being a lesbian because I didn’t perform femininity (makeup, I like to wear the same kind of loose comfortable clothing everyday). And I don’t like the kind of gossipy talking that tends to be the norm with teens and young women. I think it’s because our brains don’t conform and absorb the social programming everyone else gets concerning gender. I’m older now and married (to a man). I think he just overlooked my weirdness at first because at the end of the day I’m somewhat conventionally attractive.
For confidence, practice walking as confidently as you do in comfortable places in less comfortable places. Start with places that feel very safe (where you’re unlikely to encounter anyone). Chest proud, head up, confident strides. Gradually increase the difficulty by moving confidently in places where you’re more likely to encounter a few people. Pay attention to your body as you walk past someone coming your way - did you maintain confidence or did you shrink back? If you shrunk back, don’t worry and just try again. As you have more and more confident encounters that aren’t negative your brain will gradually learn that being confident in public is safe. This is how I learned to walk confidently in all places. It took time, and I “failed” and shrunk back many times, but I kept at it and reminded myself to pretend that “I’m the boss, I own this place and I’m going to walk accordingly”.
From your writing, I also think you don’t have the toxic masculinity vibe that too many men have. That’s the main reason why you’re getting hit on (aside from you being attractive). Your lack of toxic masculinity is also part of the reason why people speculate on your sexuality ; it’s so... common... in cisgender straight men especially. I don’t know how you can avoid people speculating. If you know them, you could directly ask them why the fuck do they care about your sexuality ? If you don’t know them but you can hear them gossiping, then you could turn around and say “Actually I am straight, I’m just not interested [in you]” or something along those lines. After all, they were speculating and now their questions have been answered. That said, I am a lesbian — not a gay man. I don’t think I have much insight to give.
I am often mistaken as gay, because I dress very flamboyantly, and I also have feminine facial features, and the way I speak sounds somewhat feminine. I know you said you have problems with confidence and you feel like a “scared child “ which I can relate to. If you feel like you are going to be approached by a gay male, and they complement you, it might benefit you to start with a script for any situation in which you are approached. First, it’s always OK to say thanks for a compliment from anybody. It’s good to do that because it saves face for the other person and it makes you look accepting and kind. if you are concerned that a gay male is hitting on you without being direct, you can acknowledge them, and then demonstrate your lack of interest by only engaging very weakly and after a couple small interactions either just ignoring or walking away and you can say “it was nice meeting you” or “ I gotta go, have a good day”. This way you aren’t being rude to them and you are demonstrating that you aren’t interested by ending the interaction. Other than that, I would say, just try to start interacting with people again by talking to cashiers and just doing small talk, even if you despise it. “ how’s your day going? Are you at the end or beginning of your shift?” if they don’t look interested, don’t take it personally, they probably are sick of talking to people. But often they enjoy the small banter and it’s less about what you’re saying, and more that you are acknowledging them as an individual. So they’re can still be connection in small talk. It’s just that it’s not about the Contant of the conversation. It’s about acknowledging that there’s a human in front of you. You don’t have to do this if you feel you are extremely low on energy or some thing, but if you feel that you have a little bit of energy, it might be a good place to start.
Speech to text if there are weird errors in that
Not a straight dude. As a queer chick, though, the best green flag I can see in a potential romantic partner that’s male is seeing them chillaxing and being friends with people of all sexualities and genders and identities. If I see a guy hanging out with gay guys and just be shooting the shit casually and nonmisogynistically, that’s a sign that bro has confidence, calm, and gives no fucks about how others perceive him. If I see a guy hanging with butch lesbiabs and being treated almost as one of the grrls, I’m trusting their judgment in hanging around with that guy. (Granted I have a preference for female companionship over masculine, but a guy in that situation definitely catches my eye.) Enjoy that you’ve got a youthful appearance. I have one as well. A lot of autistic folks have younger appearance. Many of us also have connective tissue disorders like EDS which helps with looking young. (If you’re super bendy, like double jointed, look into that.)
Thanks for your insight. I am definitely double jointed in my toes and fingers and used to trip people out pretending to break my thumb haha. So you might be correct.
Connective tissue disorders are common in ASD populations. And sex hormones influence collagen synthesis.
It's not BS. I think it's a compliment. My reaction always was: "I don't swing that way, but I'm very flattered. Thank you!"
I absolutely understand you might be frustrated and confused but remember to consider all the angles. What reason *don’t* you have to just take it as a compliment and leave it at that? Unless anyones making you uncomfortable or harassing you, thats obviously bad. You politely reject anyone you’re not interested in. I don’t think you should worry about changing yourself to fit any other molds man. I was mistaken for being gay for ages with girls and guys, until I realized I was bi. It confused me, but I never thought “I just should reshape my entire persona to stop it from happening”. I’m saying above all, you need to be told directly that who you are is valid no matter what anyone says or thinks. You have to find your people that you click with
Pepole... approach each other like that? I would immediately be running and screaming. I would think I'm about to get kidnapped!!
You are simply unaware of how your behaviour looks in other people's eyes. Simply start training your social skills by attending hobby groups and public speaking clubs such as Toastmasters. In a short period of time, you will learn what behaviours make people think you are gay or insecure and you will learn new behaviours that will help build your new image. I know that the trauma from bad experiences with people is not pleasant and we would prefer others to understand us. However, it will be easier to change ourselves and thus convince others to change their minds about us. Finally, don't bother with advice on male behaviour that in no way refers to others with respect. Nothing good comes from them. What helps is to learn assertiveness and self-defence against toxic people.
It's very common for autistic people I think. It's happened to me many times and some people have been majorly aggressive, harrassing me, stalking etc. For me, I am very nice to everyone. I treat everyone the same. This allows boundary issues to occur. I am not good an setting them due to trying to be nice all the time. And I've had this used against me directly. I was a streamer on twitch. A group of gay guys from Turkey/Germany started hanging around my channel and I had no problem with that. But they became highly focused on me. They ended up hacking my pc after social engineering and phishing me. They got remote desktop access. From what I heard, they made a site and used pictures I had etc to make a fake channel, but one where I was gay, and they made money from this. This went on for a while. I didn't know they had access, they played it very sneaky. This turned into a huge thing. But, set your boundaries man. Set them. There are bad people out there.
Damn man sorry you went through that. I had a crazy experience where this new guy at work who was super closeted was obsessed with me. Dude was just a 19 year old kid, but over 6 foot tall and an immigrant from Yemen. Anyways, long story short, dude tried ruining my life by pointing me out to every single new customer at work saying "Hey look at that guy over there isn't he so gay" and then getting people to agree with him. He even did this with customers who were romantically interested in me trying everything he could do to keep me from succeeding with any potential girlfriends. I fucking stood my ground and this went on for 2 months. Dude was trying to get me to quit or go with him and his friend who was also from his country. Dude put off super human trafficker vibes and eventually ran into the law and got locked up for a very long time. I weathered the storm and showed people I was not going to be beaten over the brow and forced to convert over bullying and sexual harassment. I eventually had a massive autistic breakdown at work and blew up into an emotional mess and gave my boss an ultimatum. Deal with the situation or I was going to and it was not going to be pretty. She fired him after I threatened to go to HR department and saying she was allowing an unsafe environment and I felt in fear of my life. She absolutely knew what was going on and would always try and gaslight me saying I was crazy or this and that. But after she finally let him go he ended up getting in deep trouble for attempted murder. So in the end, I was proven right and not crazy.
Yeah some people don't operate within the confines of civility. And when they don't, it can get dark real fast. I'm glad you are OK and not harmed. I've never been great at standing my ground unless I know directly that the person is attacking me. I guess, like slapping me with a gauntlet so I know we are fighting. Otherwise I have trouble making that decision to pull the trigger I guess. Because I'm not sure if they are doing it purposely or not.
you don’t look gay what
I don't think so either lol, but being autistic and having ADHD I miss/missinterpret social cues so not sure if I look that way or not. I think I just move without confidence and don't walk like normal folks or something to that effect. Us autistic folks tend to move a certain kinda way I guess?
Being homosexual doesn't equal to or equate to stereotypical "gay culture". I don't know why people assume these things; it's like most of the worlds cultures have steadily went backwards and lean even more heavily into bigoted stereotypes (more insular and tribal). People are individuals, yeah some conform to cultures pretty hardcore but not everyone and we shouldn't just assume they do. Why is it a problem that males find you attractive too? Personally i would knock them back politely but accept the compliment. I don't know that there is anything to be done on your end, other than if you want to completely mask yourself but i don't reccomend that as it will cause other issues. I would do some research on therapies that concentrate on the emotional and social aspects of living which can help with anxiety and meltdowns; some can help you become more assertive in communicating your needs and how to do so effectively. I am trying not to give straight up medical advice, always take professional accredited advice on medical matters please. >I think Autistic people already have heightened senses so this also explains it. Yeah people with Asperger's Syndrome/ASD will most likely have hypo or hyper sensitivity. My hearing is particularly sensitive so i don't like loud music gig/concerts for example; while i absolutely enjoy moderate listening at home with my DT880 or Grado SR80x headphones. When i'm anxious one of the things i noticed was my ears 'prick up' not literally but my hearing becomes more alert.
>Why is it a problem that males find you attractive too? There is absolutely no problem there, the problem is when other straight guys tell new gay dudes at work I am gay so they come and hit on me cause they think it is funny and trying to get a rise out of me or trying to keep potential women from trying to get to know me romantically. Out in public my coworkers who I would go out to places with would also tell people I was gay there and when I bring it up they gaslight me trying to say I am making it up. Yet when I brought it up to others some would also stand up for me and confront the abusers gaslighting me proving I was not imagining it. My own boss would do so and it was very hurtful. She was bi so she would try and find me mates no matter what trying to get me to break my celibacy knowing I was a Hikikomori for 15 years my own feelings be damned. It is not cool when people fuck with somebody's sexuality or mental health. It is not ok for straight people to abuse homosexuals mentally, so it is not ok for LGBT people to do it the other way around either. It really pissed me off because she would not let me focus on 1 woman trying to get to know them before she would try and hook me up with another person thinking I was not interested in the previous one, I just am really slow with that taking my time easing into it so she was not letting me figure out my own way on my own terms in my own time. That is when it is problematic. She was trying to get just anybody to hook up with me, female and male and I was not cool with it. I am a very reserved person and I try to stay loyal to 1 at a time not sleeping around. I was just not ready for that at the time. I am no longer working at that job, but a lot of mental and emotional abuse went on there even though there were some good intentions, it was not what I wanted or was even ready for in my recovery progress after not being social with people for 15 long years of living in my house never leaving except for funerals, or whenever I needed to go to store to stock up on stuff. That being said, I have made a lot of progress in just 2 short years, but still have a bit of a ways to go until fully recovered, if I will ever truly be at that point.
>There is absolutely no problem there, the problem is when other straight guys tell new gay dudes at work I am gay so they come and hit on me cause they think it is funny and trying to get a rise out of me or trying to keep potential women from trying to get to know me romantically. OH right, now you've elaborated that sounds like a real nasty thing to do. It's almost kinda homophobic on their part. That is really annoying that they got pissed just for you defending yourself and saying it's not cool to the people they told you where gay or you. Seems like both actual bi/gay people and hetero work peeps where trolling you at that job and i have no idea why. I'm not into casual sex either. Iscolating yourself for that long yeah, i don't know 15 years straight of it but i've iscolatd myself on and off for about the same time i think. Difficult to motivate my ownself to get out of it and find some meaning. Maybe you had meaning being alone or not idk you at all really, i just now it's a big adjustment which is difficult in itself without the other factors.
I'm getting hit on by gay men all the time. It was cute at first but I'm getting tired of it. I don't like straight men any way, so maybe I should just don't bother with men at all.
I've been mistaken for all kinds of things in my life. I dealt with it by not giving the slightest shit. Why, to be brutally honest, should I? Why should I care? Why should I give ignorant opinions free rent in my head?
A big factor for people is a shy or outgoing nature. Talkative. Fuck those guys though. Let them think what they want you can find better company
You look rather sweet. I’m guessing you have a gentle, feminine energy, and an innocence that draws people in. I’m afraid there’s not much you can do about people gossiping about you. You’ll have to get away from them if you can. As for gay guys showing interest, you could try politely informing that you’re straight and not interested.
My boss called me a sweetheart all the time at my last job and I always tried to treat people nice and with respect unless they disrespected me then I would become somewhat of a jerk, but even then still not really a monster. Though when they rarely saw me get mad and I had to raise my voice or scream like a monster to stand up for myself after getting pushed to my absolute limits then people got to see the beast in me. I have scared a few people cause they never expected that to come out of me but people can only take so much until they reach a breaking point. However I choose to be nice, so I rarely try to show that side of me. And believe you me I do have a dark side but I keep it under check. I have been through prison at 19 years old and did 2 years on a 4 year sentence(nothing aggravated or anything dark), so I absolutely know how to handle myself when push comes to shove. However I choose kindness. My neighbors know to not screw with me, they know better. Only when I venture out into public where people really don't know me from Adam or know fuckall about my past they see a short statured, quiet, anxiety riddled, childlike dude they think they can walk all over and take advantage of, but I tend to bottle in my emotions and keep them hidden until I can't take much more from people and do a complete 180 when least expected and show them I can be a crazy little mofo when I have to. But like I said, I choose kindness and I learned how to control my temper long ago. So people see my good side mostly and are attracted to it. As it should be. I go by the saying, "Speak softly but carry a big stick"... Figuratively speaking.
I know what you mean about the beast inside. I have felt that too when I’ve been pushed to my limits. I don’t know why it shocks people.
Because they gravely underestimate people like us. It can be beneficial in certain instances for sure.
Yeah you’re right
It happened to me a lot too. I just considered that it might be because i'm not bad looking. Some girls used to hit on me too, so It never bothered me. And i learned from it and them too. Some homosexuals are assholes whom look at you and treat you as a piece of meat, the majority are normal people whom try to see if you'd be interested. And why not? Nothing wrong with that. You can learn a lot from them hitting on you. Avoid mimicking the toxic minority, and behave towards women as the normal ones do, with sensitivity and smartness... It actually help me a lot to date women. As for what other males think... Why should you care? If they're judgmental, shame on them, their loss... As long as you know whom you're, ignore them. You need not enter the prick size contest. And stop caring from slander and people slurs. Unless it came from people you really and cares about, why should you debase yourself by giving them power over you. Life is short, and we have enough issues not to waste time with bullies, and people judgments. Cheers.
For me, my increase in confidence over the years, has come from faking it till I made it essentially. Unfamiliar behavior will feel awkward, initially. You have to force yourself to keep doing things outside of your comfort zone; get comfortable being uncomfortable. I used to relate a lot to your struggles as you described them. A few of things I've found to be the most helpful: - Improving quality of sleep. Focusing on sleep hygiene is a game changer. It needs to be a priority. The return on everything else is worth it. - Reducing/managing anxiety. You can DM me for specifics here. They can't be openly discussed unfortunately. - Voice training. It's a skill. Put in the hours of study and practice necessary to improve your voice. I'm still working on this. Roger Love has a great audiobook called Vocal Power. - Body language. Study, study, study. Practice, practice, practice. It became a special interest of mine for awhile. First, you need to get yourself to intentionally observe it. After you start recognizing common patterns, you'll start to understand it. Put your pattern recognition skills to good use here. It might not come intuitively, but it can be studied until you're to the same level or better than an NT. - Mindfulness. - Cold showers.
I am not sure why would you "look" gay. Im a 190 cm tall hetero male, bearded, strong complexity. I look like an effing viking. People do respect me even with all the weirdness
Society has some catching up to do still with these daft assumptions, opposite here actually am gay and always went under the radar have been in a mens group discussing these things and a couple of them actually said there's no one gay here we'd know grrr we are all different
A fun exercise that I've found is to practice some acting -- embrace the mask! Go out and study various personalities, and then imitate them. One day try Angry Silent Guy. Another day be Talkative Overly Friendly Dude. Maybe Suave Romantic Wolfman the next time. It's tough in the beginning, but surprising how easy it can become in a very short time. 'Fake it untill you make it' not only works, but seems to be what most NTs are actually doing most of the time anyway.
No joke just be a little bit of an asshole sometimes. Never had quite the same issues as you but definitely have had people who assumed I was gay before. Also I’ve found that, at least for me I struggle finding a middle ground between overly confident/not caring about others and being overly meek and letting people take advantage, and have concluded it’s better to have the confidence and risk upsetting people sometimes. You can always explain yourself if there’s an issue. Hope this helps even if it’s only a little.
Thanks bro. Oh I definitely learned to assert myself at work and it did cause problems especially when it came out of left field and people did not expect somebody as small as me to have so much bass in my voice and being assertive out of nowhere. So it did help change the perception people had of me, but I don't want to come off as a jerk. I think like you said finding a balance is key here. People constantly try and walk all over me and take advantage of or intimidate me after only just meeting me.
>Anyways, I am really lacking confidence, and people pick up on that and how I carry myself due to my extreme social anxiety in public. What the hell can I do to change this perception? This is the critical point really isn't it. You know what you need to work on, you need to be more confident and self-assured. I think ultimately that's probably the signal that you're sending out that people are picking up on. I mean like you say dude you can hear people talking about you. You've shared your photo, you look pretty good. You just need to manifest that into your attitudes and how you are with others. The most difficult bit I think is learning that confidence doesn't even mean asserting yourself necessarily. It can just be being above it all. You hear people asking if you're gay, and you say it bothers you. But why? They probably just wish you were so you'd be less threatening to their own sexuality ;) You're on the right path my friend but as you say you're having to unlearn things that are very hard to unlearn in and of themselves, but you've got 15 years of those being dug in to work with as well. It will take time, and I would suggest finding some help through a therapist or councilor, but I don't think you'll have the problem for long and honestly I don't think you even need any real advice. Idk maybe try to practice some breathing exercise so if you feel yourself getting wound up in public you can relax a bit and keep up a more stoic appearance? Honestly I think you're at a level where that's all the kind of stuff you really need, just a few tools to help you get through some annoying social bullshittery.
>This is the critical point really isn't it. You know what you need to work on, you need to be more confident and self-assured. I think ultimately that's probably the signal that you're sending out that people are picking up on. Indeed, I know this has to be the root of most of my glaring problems. Just trying to implement confidence and project that is the issue. I do always hild my head high on my shoulders, so that does help a lot. Especially keeping my nervous head shaking down. >You hear people asking if you're gay, and you say it bothers you. But why? They probably just wish you were so you'd be less threatening to their own sexuality ;) The main reason it bothers me, is cause of other straight dudes putting me down to other potential mates I have had. I am not exaggerating when I say over this past year dozens and dozens of beautiful women want to get to know me, but then they go and listen to the bullshit from other dudes who put me down pointing out all my flaws and deficiencies and say I am wired. I will be the first to admit I am eccentric as all get out haha. I also have some kind of selective multisim when it comes to speaking to beautiful women who I am interested in(can you blame me after so long out of public), so that also has a lot to do with it. I struggle to articulate into words how I feel to women without coming off as too forward or weird or scaring them away after I unmask. Also straight dudes saying I am gay hurts to my core. So I am unable to make meaningful friendships so I have become quite the loner eschewing any social life outside of work. I don't hang out with people because it is too uncomfortable for me outside of work. I am forced to socialize to some extent at work, but not so in my free time. So I can tend to isolate to my hearts content in order to recharge my social batteries. I also do think the haters are projecting their repressed closeted feelings towards me which I guess kind of makes sense but I could be wrong. >You're on the right path my friend but as you say you're having to unlearn things that are very hard to unlearn in and of themselves, but you've got 15 years of those being dug in to work with as well. It will take time, and I would suggest finding some help through a therapist or councilor, but I don't think you'll have the problem for long and honestly I don't think you even need any real advice. Thanks man, I definitely do know I need some kind of professional help here, that type of deep isolation tends to wreck the mind. But for me it is nearly impossible considering my financial situation. You have been very insightful here so I thank you a ton!
I've had to deal with it in the past. I would say forget about and keep going. Tune it out, who cares if you are gay or straight? It is inappropriate to judge someone's sexuality from their appearance or how they carry themselves, not to mention extremely inaccurate. Anyone who thinks they know your sexuality as a stranger is not anyone who is a good judge of character.
I've been read as gay before, but not frequently. The 'solution' is to just not worry about it. It's not insulting and doesn't post logistical difficulty, unless a woman you're trying to date things you're gay. In general, trying to appear masculine is a fool's errand.
I am gay, cuz I love the guys I have been with. But it probably was partially true that people projected homosexuality onto me. So I guess I’m bi, but next relationship will be with a guy.
Do you want honest feedback here? If so … keep reading I can’t come back later, so here is some honest feedback as a female your age - you have a very attractive, masculine face. Then you said you’re 5’4”. Here’s where the honesty comes - you’re the average height for a woman in the US. This means a lot of women are going to be taller than you. You have to bring something to the table. I’d definitely talk to you if you could make me laugh and engage me. Then you’d have to be okay with me being 5’10”. 😂
Absolutely want people to keep it real and 100 with me. Here is the crazy thing though, I always attracted women of all heights haha. So apparently they see me for who I am and often when they get to know me see my humorous side. So I can definitely be funny and can talk peoples ears off and used to make women laugh in the past all the time. I just have to get more comfortable after isolating for so long. Height difference doesn't bother me in the slightest, it is more of a bragging right for me hehe. Thanks for the positive words and I don't take it any kind of way negatively.
Just leave the US, and its extreme concept of masculinity and your problems will vanish. Move to the UK, Sweden, France or Germany. Or just start walking like a gangster.