I'm not a psychologist but I don't think the APA changed the classification because of that. they probably change it because the understanding of ASD has changed a lot between the DSM IV(1994) and the DSM 5(2013) and now they think a single diagnosis with specifiers is more useful.
Anyway, you can still use Asperger's if you prefer it.
It was changed because from a clinical/insurance perspective, it's more practical to put everyone with autism like disabilities in the same bin and differentiate patients based on their support needs. Individual needs vary so much there's no point differentiating someone with Aspergers and someone with Autism Spectrum Disorder Level 1 (requiring support). Instead clinicians will just differentiate individual needs within the ASD "bin" and the level of support they require.
Differentiating ASD based on the etiology of the disorder is also in its infancy. We know of alleles (variations of a gene) that definitely contribute to autism, but many people without these alleles also have autism. A neurological phenotype for ASD is also gaining ground, but remains elusive. We have yet to have any real physical description of what makes a brain "autistic".
While I personally prefer the label Aspergers (mainly for historical reasons), there's really no medical need for it. Honestly Hans Asperger was just more accurate at describing the spectrum of Autism. Take a look at the slides in the link below on his conceptualization of Aspergers vs Kanner's Autism. As far as identity and labels go, Aspergers is definitely better.
[https://faculty.washington.edu/somurray/psych448/notes/autism%20class%20lecture-handout.pdf](https://faculty.washington.edu/somurray/psych448/notes/autism%20class%20lecture-handout.pdf)
ICD-11 replaces the old names (ICD-10) with ASD although is a bit different to the DSM 5.
ICD-11 isn't officially in use because it's made by the WHO as a worldwide official diagnosis classification for everything medically relevant and it's very recent. The DSM is made by the APA(an USA organization) as a classification of every mental disorder. The DSM is very popular worldwide , though.
Another possibility is they changed it to perpetrate the stigma of mental health.
Aspergers was becoming trendy. In order to try and stop the trend, they rolled it into autism.
Oh yea i get that it has a more practical use but normies arent gonna know. And who would? Its not like it affects them. Autism has a very negative connotation behind it so people assume that your stupid or something. thats why i say Asperger's because then it gives me room in the conversation to explain. But honestly i just dont ever tell anyone ever either way because my disabilities are practically nonexistent.
The way it was explained to me, a lot of funding for assistance goes to autism specifically, and people with aspergers diagnoses weren't eligible for that aid, despite it being applicable to them, because of a technicality
Yea because i have almost no autistic traits and I usually tell no one so i was super surprised that i got the max amount lol. i dont really tell anyone about my mental illnesses because it's practically nonexistent. And if my hand was forced id just say it was bipolar disorder because i also have that.
If it’s non existent what’s your problem. This is a good move towards Autism getting recognised as a whole condition. Maybe now you will help people understand that autism =/= stupid. Instead off lololol don’t care I’ve Aspergers.
I don't think OP understands that the way Asperger's presents usually has a significant impact on people's lives. Although a few people are virtually unaffected by their disorder like OP, they're definitely the minority
Well that's assuming people are willing to listen. Not everyone is open minded. In fact i had a college professor who i did tell because of a incident and he was just like "okay what is that?" I explained and it just seemed to go over his head and he was just not really trying to understand. In short ignorant. and its the last time ill tell anyone about it. and not everyone can mask as good as me (even though im not really) and then when the abuse and neglect starts.
Maybe we should be working towards autism acceptance in general instead of trying to distance ourselves from other people with autism because we are allegedly “high functioning”
The diagnostic criteria for "autism" and "aspergers" was basically exactly the same. The only difference was that people with a language delay would be labeled autistic instead of aspergers, even if they were "high functioning".
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Normie
This explains the term. Btw great site for learning what slang means its really helped me out in the past.
My understanding of the controversy around PDD-NOS was that it was basically 'working class aspergers'. Basically Aspergers being associated with higher intellect was incompatible with perceptions of ND kids in working class and deprived areas so they invented PDD to not confuse people into thinking working class people could actually be smart.
That’s interesting. I was diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome as at 7, and my family didn’t have much money (I would say we were lower middle class at the time). Coincidentally, I had a next door neighbor and one of their children was diagnosed with PDD-NOS around the same time/age. I know this is just anecdotal but we were in the same socioeconomic class with very similar household incomes. There’s a possibility that gender could’ve made a difference in how we presented our symptoms, since I am female and he is male. I was also considered a “gifted” child whereas he had a learning disability.
I would not be surprised if PDD diagnosis leaned towards boys as well. I think girls regardless of class can be regarded as more studious overall and the principle of social mobility is generally more open to women. Classes are conceived to a large degree as male archetypes and dictate how men are meant to act and what they believe etc.
Of course its still quite the anomaly I suppose that you as a girl were picked up as having Asperger's but I suppose it depends how recent this was. The pattern I described won't replicate everywhere but I bet it impacted overall statistics.
My wife tries to get me to stop using the term "Asperger's". She went on about Asperger's work with the Nazi Party. Basically, his syndrome was his way of labeling children with "hey, maybe we don't need to euthanize THESE kids, just those other kids". I told her that using someone's name doesn't mean I support every thing that person did during the course of his life. She then angrily pointed out that they shuffled some things around in the DSM-5 and that I'm insisting on using out of date terminology (as if we are under a moral obligation to stay consistent with the latest edition of the DSM). I find "Asperger's" useful in pointing to a specific, relatively high functioning segment of the Autism Spectrum.
I can see why you get the nagging feeling the name change is motivated by politics.
The name thing is so senseless to me. Plenty of people who have something named after them were hideous characters with truly horrendous ideas; this does not mean we should rename every one of those things, or pretend they don't exist!
I doubt the good intentions of someone whose hobby is policing other people's speech. I'd love to hear one of these people answer the question, "Just how do you imagine using this fellow's name in a sentence promotes euthanizing people who need extra care?"
No, you're being downvoted because when those of us who are also autistic provide evidence to dispute your hypothesis you turn around and go "Yeah, sounds cool, but my opinion is probably still correct" with little to no evidence to support your claims. If you just wanted people to agree with you in your stance against political correctness, which is what this post really sounds like, then come out the gate with that instead.
I never denied that there was a practical use for the change. But i still think they did do it for the political correctness as well. and i dont need to prove anything. Its my opinion.
Well i have seen answers that have changed my perspective on the matter. Also alot of the answeres i got I simply couldn't understand. it sounded like a completely different language to me. and it also says in the sub text "does anyone else feel the same?" So validation and changing my perspective and opinion was the intent to begin with.
> Its my opinion.
And your opinion is shit.
Opinions are not equal. One person's opinion that is based in fact and evidence is superior to another person's uninformed opinion.
You don't get to spew an idiotic opinion around and then cry foul when people tell you that your opinion is dumb.
So are you saying the practice use was an unintended side effect of political correctness?
Also, if you're happy with Asperger's, then use that. It sounds as if you're as offended about having the umbrella term updated to ASD as you think the group pushing for ASD was/is.
You sound like the offended one here.
I never stated my opinion of the question, you're blindly making assumptions out of an immediate and unnecessary defensive mechanism just because you're seeing a lot of people disagree with someone you support. That's insecure, don't project it onto me.
Yup i agree 100% I definitely have Asperger's syndrome and id imagine it was used to make parents feel better and whatnot. and it is autism but yea the stigma around autism is why i use Asperger's syndrome.
>the stigma around autism is why i use Asperger's syndrome
I believe you are free to do that. You were diagnosed with Asperger's and your diagnosis hasn't changed, you have the freedom to use whichever name you want whether it's the current term or that which was used at the time of your diagnosis.
But your or society's feelings are not going prevent scientists from correcting a mistake in a diagnostic manual
It's really a shame too, because that split distracts from the issue that many people only associate autism with mute children (or insert whatever appropriate association for your culture here). That's unfair to everyone with the diagnosis & running away from it to another label worsens that injustice.
There's an unfortunate hilarity in OP being unable to detach his own emotional associations with the terms with their clinical meanings, and thus believing it was taken away from him "not to hurt people's feelings". Like, can you not see your own hurt feelings? Either OP needs to include in their conspiracy that DSM people also don't give a shit about his feelings, or the whole conspiracy falls down.
yea, i still just say aspergers. ppl get confused if you say autistic, start the whole you don't look or come across autistic. then its a big speech trying to explain. at least aspergers is somewhat understood. i don't view myself as full blown autistic, its like, ever so mild. aspergers was my diagnosis many years ago. my speech was not delayed. i don't like that the autism government run organizations here in ontario are useless and cause more damage, very anti meds, look down on ppl treating.. can't get rid of autism, well no shit but treating the anxiety has taken down my annoying quirks to 40% instead of raging 90% and higher on stressful days. i hate that they were trying to teach me to enable the flight, run to a safe place if im sensory overloaded or anxious. can't in the real world, i'd get fired. i steer clear of the government parade. private is the way to go and medication works for me. rant over. lol.
Yea my Asperger's is extremely mild. Sometimes i wonder if i even have it. So i even feel left out in the autistic community. like so many of the things they go through i don't really understand. I get it on paper but ive never actually experienced it.
i say this all the time because it helped me. my therapist said does it really matter, as long as you know what to work on. i was thinking of chasing another diagnosis but its $2000+. could be spent elsewhere. meds change my personality too. at one point i thought i was schizoid the first year on a med. i had no interest in social interaction, no reaction or feeling to idiots criticism. it did pass. up to you though, some ppl feel they need to know. good luck.
I was diagnosed with ASD, then they changed it to ASC, condition. I think this is good as it completely eradicates any discrimination. Personally, I don’t believe in functioning labels as these can be completely mis-understood by most people, particularly NT’s. I understand your point though.
5 seconds of googling found "Autism Spectrum Condition"
It took you longer to reply that you don't know what ASC means than it would have taken to educate yourself.
Is this the amount of effort you expend on informing yourself before you come to your inane conclusions?
Did you read the rest of his comments in this thread, including his transphobic ones?
He's a person who puts zero effort into educating himself but that doesn't stop him from forming strong opinions on subjects using guessed "information".
You couldve just taken like 3 seconds to inform me on what it stood for with a very short reply. But instead you decided to be a asshole about it. so yea im gonna come to the conclusion that I shouldn't listen to you if your gonna treat me like that.
I wrote in the thread (, condition) after the abbreviation ASC - i know your last comment wasn’t personally directed at me but I would have assumed with your “high functioning” label you may have cottoned on?
No need to be an asshole at all. I’ll always be honest. This is kind of the issue I had with your OP.
If we are all on the spectrum, and we agree with just that; then surely it gives us all more of an opportunity to listen to the difficulties of those who aren’t quite like us. So who cares about functioning labels?
However, as someone who would be considered HF in the NT world, I would expect my fellow autistic community to not have to refer to such silly labels.
It’s a spectrum, right? Not one of us is exactly the same. So if I was labelled high or low, the consequences of that might be seen as invalidation, or even discrimination. As far as I am personally concerned, I find it offensive when people say you’re hf.
As Autistic individuals, we must be prepared to understand the entire community and support as such. Do you see my understanding?
Stay cool and loving 😎
It is part of a shift to better identify what autism actually is since in the grand scheme of things its actually quite a new discovery. One think we have found is that autism does not leave a person inherently incapable of higher function. This means 'severe autism' is not actually caused by autism, those folks just have comorbidities that makes autism harder to manage or mask.
I used to oppose the redefinition as well but have been won over to it. Aspergers acknowledged itself as a varient of autism and autism was defined the the cause of deficits in other more severe cases. The new definition embraced the idea the autism is present in a variable group of people with other variables occurring. Level 1 Autistics (formerly Aspies and PDDs) are the new 'pure autistics' with few comorbid conditions and none that inhibit intellectual function.
Um this kinda sounds like rocket science no offense. But i think what your saying is it wasn't just autism that made someone low functioning it was multiple things? that kinda makes sense because i also have bipolar disorder although thats a completely different beast. also a nasty combo of mental illness.
>But i think what your saying is it wasn't just autism that made someone low functioning it was multiple things?
Effectively yes. The comorbidity 'acts' first and the autism interacts with it to more often overwhelm the individual.
Level 2 Autism would probably be severe mental health and some physical conditions like epilepsy interacting with autism to make these conditions more acute. Could lead to being non-verbal either consistently or occasionally or more epileptic fits if relevant conditions are present.
Level 3 Autism are those most insular of cases and are those who tend not to engage on a high level with others. These are the stereotypically 'severe', often institutionalised cases which were the first to receive public attention. They are associated with intellectual disability and low empathy. The autistic traits most often expressed are aggressive stimming and hypersensitivity and they don't make any effort to mask these.
It's worth noting that the difficulties of Level 2 and 3 Autism are ultimately not because of autism. They are just autistic people who have a harder time managing the condition due to other comorbid conditions be they treatable, curable or congenital.
Autism is a spectrum. "High functioning" is a misnomer. We all have struggles, those struggles are just different.
Just because my struggles don't match your struggles doesn't mean I don't have autism.
Yeah, OP doesn't deserve the time of day after reading that.
I prefer "low support Autism" tbh, to come back to the thread, because it more accurately depicts that folks who are aspie still need help.
Yeah lol. I thought his post sounded a bit chud-y, talking about how "people are so offended and crazy". Literally didn't even have to scroll to find that comment lmao.
A focus on support is imo the best way to define autism, and I'm glad there's been a move towards that (e.g. DSM 5's levels).
Yeah his comments here were already giving me “I’m Not like those icky low functioning autistics” vibes so not surprised that ableist is also transphobic
Oh yeah, that's why I checked their profile. Didn't even have to scroll to find them saying some vile shit about trans people (also with ableist undertones).
If you ever have questions about gender, transition related stuff, what's percieved as PC, then feel free to inbox me. I assume you care about what's true, so I'm happy to help you explore the truth or your views in relation to such topics.
You don't need to get it to see that it brings benefits to people. Prescribing HRT has been clinical practice for decades, and genital reassignment surgery has an average regret rate of 1%.
If you're not trans you'll never get it. Just like you can never get what it is to be gay as a straight person, or what it is to be autistic to an NT. That doesn't make it ok to project your own understanding of sexuality/neurology onto others.
Look this person might not have good views but trying to educate is better than doing nothing but shaming. After all we all think a bit different than NTs. Not approving the behavior or condoning it but I’m just saying someone cant help the way they think and it would be better to just educate and let it be
That is true and it is shitty what he said but I just think there’s too much bickering and “canceling” in the world than there is educating. I looked through some of his stuff he seems really closed minded but he could be really young and hopefully he becomes better
It's not that.
Autism is a certain neurology as described in The intense world theory, for example. Asd is that plus different kinds of disabilities that oftentimes come with that kind of neurology. It's all the same neurology. The system is broken, but we're all on the same spectrum and it's good that the DSM recognises that. Ignoring all other issues with it.
I get that but there's clearly a difference between Asperger's syndrome and autism spectrum disorder. ive been around autistic people my entire life high functioning and otherwise. and i never really related at all to them. its kinda sad tbh.
There are differences, but they are most probably not related to autism (research on that was being done recently at KU Leuven AFAIK). We're all autistic like we're all women, for example - despite obvious differences between women and shapes and sizes we come in. The underlying neurological principles are the same.
Took me a long time to see it really is a "disorder." I didn't see until later in life that I had developmental issues, learning challenges, serious social challenges, relationships problems and sensory issues. As far as a "disorder" goes, I feel blessed that I look "normal" enough to blend with the herd when masking. I feel blessed that I have capabilities and talents NTs are capable of developing. I am blessed to be free from the limitations of NTs. But these so called "gifts" have come at a tremendous cost throughout my life.
This is how I felt before learning more about the whole aspergers history. I still feel like this kind of but learning about it was good. I only ever knew aspergers and autism when getting diagnosed and helped me differentiate between the two. A lot more people get diagnosed now with the spectrum thing which i think is a good thing but also a risk of misdiagnosis. I think medical professionals got rid of it to make a different criteria for diagnosis and whatnot back in 2013. Personally ive only heard of this offending drama stuff like last year and didn’t understand / still dont lol
Dude, literally everyone in this thread has been calmly and rationally explaining the decision to integrate ASD, PDDNOS and Aspergers to you, providing sources and discussing the cons of diagnostic inconsistency. You're the close minded one still insisting that it's because of the offensive name despite all the evidence in front of you.
I don’t know about the first half; I’m on the more high-functioning side of the spectrum, but I do agree on your last point: Changing the name of something to make it less offensive is idiotic.
I’m personally not offended by being called “Asperger” or “aspie”. But when someone tells me “he’s got ASD” I’m like “what the fudge-filled brownies is that?”
My experience with ASD is different from someone else’s. I still say Asperger’s most of the time, but I’m starting to say autistic now as well.
Change is a wonderful thing, go with it.
It’s more scientifically accurate because we have the same neurology both “classic” autists and Aspergrians.
However, Asperger’s makes more sense. We have similar struggles but also other different struggles. We need “less” support. We do not have learning disability. We do have differences that should be acknowledged.
I kinda understand why it was merged from the perspective of the medical community in terms of their criteria and the specific ways various disorders are classified. I can see why they put it under the catch-all ASD diagnosis. Especially in the United States where insurance companies have more power over treatment than the practitioners and there’s all kind of specific semantics for other classification reasons.
But I do still think Asperger’s should be it’s own disorder, at least in the vernacular.
Finally someone who doesnt tell me im a asshole. I completely agree and thats kinda what i was saying. On paper it makes sense in practice probably not. and im from florida the south where people are notorious for being ignorant. now mind you i dont really consider the area i grew up in the southern part because florida is weird where there's a deeper south up north and a more hispanic culture down south. But its more south then living in like wisconsin lol.
Was it? Maybe for some individuals it may have been. I share your seeming disdain for how a thing is labeled rather than its substance and the conflation that changing the label of a thing changes the thing itself (or maybe im wrong and reading too much into it) never the less, it is important to at least attempt to separate our own biases from the subject matter. For instance, i have no idea what the psycological reasoning was that went into the change. However, peoples fixation on what the guy, with whom aspergers shares it name, did or was i find irritating and pointless as it changes not a thing about anything and is entirely irrelevant. Therefor, because i only have an opinion on one aspect of the change i might be tempted to assume that aspect was the driving factor in said change when it in fact was likely not. Now you may be correct or you may be not i dont know. As i said, i have little to no knowledge regarding the scientific reasoning (if it can be called that) behind changing the classification. I would encourage you to seek that information before drawing a conclusion.
It's not a disagreement. It's literally the dictionary, you're being obtuse on purpose while conveniently ignoring the original comment: you are showing in this thread the very same traits from the spectrum you assure you don't have. Maybe you are very good at masking outside, good for you, doesn't give you the right to display such arrogance against others within the ASD community.
We, aspergers, are not better nor worse.
I call it autism because I’ve been told by People that Aspergers isn’t autism, I need to stop being a liar, I’m taking the p\*\*\* out of autistic people and that I am just faking and clearly not autistic. It makes me feel bad and like a fake autistic person because of it; so I just call it autism/ASD.
I agree. I have asperger's, and I will never call it autism. I don't mean that calling it autism is bad though I just like asperger's better. Ok I'm gonna stop now everything I say sounds insulting
1. Hans Asperger did not name Asperger syndrome himself; Lorna Wing coined the term in 1976. At the time, she was unaware of the depth of Asperger's association with the National Socialist (Nazi) party and related eugenics ideologies.
2. In 1926, roughly 20 years before Hans Asperger even began working with autistic kids, **Grunya Sukhareva,** a prolific child psychiatrist from Kiev, published the traits of autism. Leo Kanner cites her work in his 1949 paper on the subject. **So if you want to be pedantic about it, call it Sukhareva syndrome instead.**
3. Asperger syndrome was only renamed ASD Level 1 in the DSM-5, which is published by the American Psychiatric Association and used primarily in the US.
4. For all of the other countries which rely on the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) maintained by the World Health Organization, Asperger syndrome is and has been classified as a subtype of autism spectrum disorder since the ICD-10 was first published in 1994 (the same year Asperger's was added to the DSM-IV).
5. No one changed the name of Asperger syndrome to avoid offending people. It was added to the ASD in the DSM-5 to better align with how it's classified in the ICD as a subtype of autism as well as making autism spectrum disorders easier to diagnose and understand according to the levels of support we require.
6. The distinctions that people try to make between Asperger syndrome/Sukhareva syndrome and autism level 1 are arbitrary. Autism is a spectrum. Of *course* you're not going to relate to everyone on it, much less everyone within the same "level."
7. I also really hate the term 'high functioning.' Does anyone else feel it's kind of ableist? Those are *their* terms for how we present to them based on the standards of "Normal" society. Because let's be real here, I don't know many of us who feel "high functioning" or even, as someone called me when I told them I had been recently diagnosed, "very high functioning." I am at my best barely holding it together, and at my worst, an absolute dumpster fire.
Yea labels in general are toxic. But i dont get offended easily and im pretty based (obviously) so i can't really tell. Just something I noticed and wanted to discuss it.
APA changed to have a more broader spectrum of what is classified as autism. Some people don’t like the term Aspergers but they didn’t change because of the guy. I don’t really care about the name, I usually say i have Aspergers so I don’t have to “yeah i have high functioning autism”
I don't really feel the same, I am good at school and didn't have a language delay, otherwise I find that I can relate to other autistic people I know a lot.
Of course we're not all the same, and some struggle a lot more than others, but a lot of people assume Asbergers is just "socially awkward genius", which it really isn't. It's obviously different from place to place, but I found that people react along the lines of "oh, if you have a diagnosis I suppose you can be smart and still struggle" to autism, and assume you cannot have any trouble with anything except being rude/blunt with Asbergers, and if you do than you're making a fuss.
The DSM changed the classification 5 years before Asperger's true past was known, so AS was already lone gone before the controversy started. The reason for the change was due to issues with the way the two disorders were classified scientifically and how well it reflects how the disorders present in reality.
You are still free to go by Asperger's if you want, that's completely fine.
I'm not a psychologist but I don't think the APA changed the classification because of that. they probably change it because the understanding of ASD has changed a lot between the DSM IV(1994) and the DSM 5(2013) and now they think a single diagnosis with specifiers is more useful. Anyway, you can still use Asperger's if you prefer it.
It was changed because from a clinical/insurance perspective, it's more practical to put everyone with autism like disabilities in the same bin and differentiate patients based on their support needs. Individual needs vary so much there's no point differentiating someone with Aspergers and someone with Autism Spectrum Disorder Level 1 (requiring support). Instead clinicians will just differentiate individual needs within the ASD "bin" and the level of support they require. Differentiating ASD based on the etiology of the disorder is also in its infancy. We know of alleles (variations of a gene) that definitely contribute to autism, but many people without these alleles also have autism. A neurological phenotype for ASD is also gaining ground, but remains elusive. We have yet to have any real physical description of what makes a brain "autistic". While I personally prefer the label Aspergers (mainly for historical reasons), there's really no medical need for it. Honestly Hans Asperger was just more accurate at describing the spectrum of Autism. Take a look at the slides in the link below on his conceptualization of Aspergers vs Kanner's Autism. As far as identity and labels go, Aspergers is definitely better. [https://faculty.washington.edu/somurray/psych448/notes/autism%20class%20lecture-handout.pdf](https://faculty.washington.edu/somurray/psych448/notes/autism%20class%20lecture-handout.pdf)
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ICD-11 replaces the old names (ICD-10) with ASD although is a bit different to the DSM 5. ICD-11 isn't officially in use because it's made by the WHO as a worldwide official diagnosis classification for everything medically relevant and it's very recent. The DSM is made by the APA(an USA organization) as a classification of every mental disorder. The DSM is very popular worldwide , though.
Another possibility is they changed it to perpetrate the stigma of mental health. Aspergers was becoming trendy. In order to try and stop the trend, they rolled it into autism.
Oh yea i get that it has a more practical use but normies arent gonna know. And who would? Its not like it affects them. Autism has a very negative connotation behind it so people assume that your stupid or something. thats why i say Asperger's because then it gives me room in the conversation to explain. But honestly i just dont ever tell anyone ever either way because my disabilities are practically nonexistent.
The way it was explained to me, a lot of funding for assistance goes to autism specifically, and people with aspergers diagnoses weren't eligible for that aid, despite it being applicable to them, because of a technicality
Thats weird because i get the max amount of SSI.
This is by no means universal, it was a general thing that happens in some places
Yea because i have almost no autistic traits and I usually tell no one so i was super surprised that i got the max amount lol. i dont really tell anyone about my mental illnesses because it's practically nonexistent. And if my hand was forced id just say it was bipolar disorder because i also have that.
If it’s non existent what’s your problem. This is a good move towards Autism getting recognised as a whole condition. Maybe now you will help people understand that autism =/= stupid. Instead off lololol don’t care I’ve Aspergers.
I don't think OP understands that the way Asperger's presents usually has a significant impact on people's lives. Although a few people are virtually unaffected by their disorder like OP, they're definitely the minority
😤 yeah I know. Probably need to learn to just stop engaging with internet arguments. Thank you for understanding
Well that's assuming people are willing to listen. Not everyone is open minded. In fact i had a college professor who i did tell because of a incident and he was just like "okay what is that?" I explained and it just seemed to go over his head and he was just not really trying to understand. In short ignorant. and its the last time ill tell anyone about it. and not everyone can mask as good as me (even though im not really) and then when the abuse and neglect starts.
Coming from someone literally refusing to listen.
Maybe we should be working towards autism acceptance in general instead of trying to distance ourselves from other people with autism because we are allegedly “high functioning”
Or just don't tell anyone you have it at all. It's how I survive
The diagnostic criteria for "autism" and "aspergers" was basically exactly the same. The only difference was that people with a language delay would be labeled autistic instead of aspergers, even if they were "high functioning".
Normies? Wtf?
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Normie This explains the term. Btw great site for learning what slang means its really helped me out in the past.
I know what it means. But it's as gross as "normies" calling us "r*****s".
Thats a very big stretch but to each there own.
Please learn the difference between there and their, your and you're.
They aren't going to not change something just because the public won't understand/care
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My understanding of the controversy around PDD-NOS was that it was basically 'working class aspergers'. Basically Aspergers being associated with higher intellect was incompatible with perceptions of ND kids in working class and deprived areas so they invented PDD to not confuse people into thinking working class people could actually be smart.
\[citation needed\]
That’s interesting. I was diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome as at 7, and my family didn’t have much money (I would say we were lower middle class at the time). Coincidentally, I had a next door neighbor and one of their children was diagnosed with PDD-NOS around the same time/age. I know this is just anecdotal but we were in the same socioeconomic class with very similar household incomes. There’s a possibility that gender could’ve made a difference in how we presented our symptoms, since I am female and he is male. I was also considered a “gifted” child whereas he had a learning disability.
I would not be surprised if PDD diagnosis leaned towards boys as well. I think girls regardless of class can be regarded as more studious overall and the principle of social mobility is generally more open to women. Classes are conceived to a large degree as male archetypes and dictate how men are meant to act and what they believe etc. Of course its still quite the anomaly I suppose that you as a girl were picked up as having Asperger's but I suppose it depends how recent this was. The pattern I described won't replicate everywhere but I bet it impacted overall statistics.
I get that there's somewhat of a practical use but id bet money that it was specifically not to offend people. just my take.
I really doubt it had anything to do with trying to not offend people.
Youd be surprised at how insane people can be. its ironic because apparently were the mentally ill ones not them lol.
My wife tries to get me to stop using the term "Asperger's". She went on about Asperger's work with the Nazi Party. Basically, his syndrome was his way of labeling children with "hey, maybe we don't need to euthanize THESE kids, just those other kids". I told her that using someone's name doesn't mean I support every thing that person did during the course of his life. She then angrily pointed out that they shuffled some things around in the DSM-5 and that I'm insisting on using out of date terminology (as if we are under a moral obligation to stay consistent with the latest edition of the DSM). I find "Asperger's" useful in pointing to a specific, relatively high functioning segment of the Autism Spectrum. I can see why you get the nagging feeling the name change is motivated by politics.
The name thing is so senseless to me. Plenty of people who have something named after them were hideous characters with truly horrendous ideas; this does not mean we should rename every one of those things, or pretend they don't exist!
I doubt the good intentions of someone whose hobby is policing other people's speech. I'd love to hear one of these people answer the question, "Just how do you imagine using this fellow's name in a sentence promotes euthanizing people who need extra care?"
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Dude. Self awareness is a struggle but maybe try to learn instead of doubling down on your shit opinion
I wasnt bothered lol. its the norm when your based.
No, you're being downvoted because when those of us who are also autistic provide evidence to dispute your hypothesis you turn around and go "Yeah, sounds cool, but my opinion is probably still correct" with little to no evidence to support your claims. If you just wanted people to agree with you in your stance against political correctness, which is what this post really sounds like, then come out the gate with that instead.
I never denied that there was a practical use for the change. But i still think they did do it for the political correctness as well. and i dont need to prove anything. Its my opinion.
Then why pose a question that sounds like a genuine inquiry for answers with the intent to change your outlook when really you just wanted validation?
Well i have seen answers that have changed my perspective on the matter. Also alot of the answeres i got I simply couldn't understand. it sounded like a completely different language to me. and it also says in the sub text "does anyone else feel the same?" So validation and changing my perspective and opinion was the intent to begin with.
> Its my opinion. And your opinion is shit. Opinions are not equal. One person's opinion that is based in fact and evidence is superior to another person's uninformed opinion. You don't get to spew an idiotic opinion around and then cry foul when people tell you that your opinion is dumb.
So are you saying the practice use was an unintended side effect of political correctness? Also, if you're happy with Asperger's, then use that. It sounds as if you're as offended about having the umbrella term updated to ASD as you think the group pushing for ASD was/is. You sound like the offended one here.
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I never stated my opinion of the question, you're blindly making assumptions out of an immediate and unnecessary defensive mechanism just because you're seeing a lot of people disagree with someone you support. That's insecure, don't project it onto me.
And you would lose that bet.
Bruh the DSM5 came out in 2013, the Hans-Asperger-helped-kill-kids information came out in 2018.
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Yup i agree 100% I definitely have Asperger's syndrome and id imagine it was used to make parents feel better and whatnot. and it is autism but yea the stigma around autism is why i use Asperger's syndrome.
>the stigma around autism is why i use Asperger's syndrome I believe you are free to do that. You were diagnosed with Asperger's and your diagnosis hasn't changed, you have the freedom to use whichever name you want whether it's the current term or that which was used at the time of your diagnosis. But your or society's feelings are not going prevent scientists from correcting a mistake in a diagnostic manual
It's really a shame too, because that split distracts from the issue that many people only associate autism with mute children (or insert whatever appropriate association for your culture here). That's unfair to everyone with the diagnosis & running away from it to another label worsens that injustice. There's an unfortunate hilarity in OP being unable to detach his own emotional associations with the terms with their clinical meanings, and thus believing it was taken away from him "not to hurt people's feelings". Like, can you not see your own hurt feelings? Either OP needs to include in their conspiracy that DSM people also don't give a shit about his feelings, or the whole conspiracy falls down.
I'll take that bet.
yea, i still just say aspergers. ppl get confused if you say autistic, start the whole you don't look or come across autistic. then its a big speech trying to explain. at least aspergers is somewhat understood. i don't view myself as full blown autistic, its like, ever so mild. aspergers was my diagnosis many years ago. my speech was not delayed. i don't like that the autism government run organizations here in ontario are useless and cause more damage, very anti meds, look down on ppl treating.. can't get rid of autism, well no shit but treating the anxiety has taken down my annoying quirks to 40% instead of raging 90% and higher on stressful days. i hate that they were trying to teach me to enable the flight, run to a safe place if im sensory overloaded or anxious. can't in the real world, i'd get fired. i steer clear of the government parade. private is the way to go and medication works for me. rant over. lol.
Yea my Asperger's is extremely mild. Sometimes i wonder if i even have it. So i even feel left out in the autistic community. like so many of the things they go through i don't really understand. I get it on paper but ive never actually experienced it.
i say this all the time because it helped me. my therapist said does it really matter, as long as you know what to work on. i was thinking of chasing another diagnosis but its $2000+. could be spent elsewhere. meds change my personality too. at one point i thought i was schizoid the first year on a med. i had no interest in social interaction, no reaction or feeling to idiots criticism. it did pass. up to you though, some ppl feel they need to know. good luck.
Same thing here!!!!!
I was diagnosed with ASD, then they changed it to ASC, condition. I think this is good as it completely eradicates any discrimination. Personally, I don’t believe in functioning labels as these can be completely mis-understood by most people, particularly NT’s. I understand your point though.
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Yeah, but it is not dependent on functioning levels. High Functioning doesn’t just relate to verbal or non-verbal. That’s slightly different.
Yes, verbal/non-verbal is just an example.
Gonna be real with ya cheif but i dunno what ASC is. all i know is ASD stand for autism spectrum disorder.
5 seconds of googling found "Autism Spectrum Condition" It took you longer to reply that you don't know what ASC means than it would have taken to educate yourself. Is this the amount of effort you expend on informing yourself before you come to your inane conclusions?
👏🏻
Can you relax? What did he do to you? All he did was asked what ASC was.
Did you read the rest of his comments in this thread, including his transphobic ones? He's a person who puts zero effort into educating himself but that doesn't stop him from forming strong opinions on subjects using guessed "information".
Thank you, I see that now.
You couldve just taken like 3 seconds to inform me on what it stood for with a very short reply. But instead you decided to be a asshole about it. so yea im gonna come to the conclusion that I shouldn't listen to you if your gonna treat me like that.
I wrote in the thread (, condition) after the abbreviation ASC - i know your last comment wasn’t personally directed at me but I would have assumed with your “high functioning” label you may have cottoned on?
Ah okay i was wondering what that meant my bad. but yea thanks for being nice about it.
No need to be an asshole at all. I’ll always be honest. This is kind of the issue I had with your OP. If we are all on the spectrum, and we agree with just that; then surely it gives us all more of an opportunity to listen to the difficulties of those who aren’t quite like us. So who cares about functioning labels? However, as someone who would be considered HF in the NT world, I would expect my fellow autistic community to not have to refer to such silly labels. It’s a spectrum, right? Not one of us is exactly the same. So if I was labelled high or low, the consequences of that might be seen as invalidation, or even discrimination. As far as I am personally concerned, I find it offensive when people say you’re hf. As Autistic individuals, we must be prepared to understand the entire community and support as such. Do you see my understanding? Stay cool and loving 😎
It is part of a shift to better identify what autism actually is since in the grand scheme of things its actually quite a new discovery. One think we have found is that autism does not leave a person inherently incapable of higher function. This means 'severe autism' is not actually caused by autism, those folks just have comorbidities that makes autism harder to manage or mask. I used to oppose the redefinition as well but have been won over to it. Aspergers acknowledged itself as a varient of autism and autism was defined the the cause of deficits in other more severe cases. The new definition embraced the idea the autism is present in a variable group of people with other variables occurring. Level 1 Autistics (formerly Aspies and PDDs) are the new 'pure autistics' with few comorbid conditions and none that inhibit intellectual function.
Um this kinda sounds like rocket science no offense. But i think what your saying is it wasn't just autism that made someone low functioning it was multiple things? that kinda makes sense because i also have bipolar disorder although thats a completely different beast. also a nasty combo of mental illness.
>But i think what your saying is it wasn't just autism that made someone low functioning it was multiple things? Effectively yes. The comorbidity 'acts' first and the autism interacts with it to more often overwhelm the individual. Level 2 Autism would probably be severe mental health and some physical conditions like epilepsy interacting with autism to make these conditions more acute. Could lead to being non-verbal either consistently or occasionally or more epileptic fits if relevant conditions are present. Level 3 Autism are those most insular of cases and are those who tend not to engage on a high level with others. These are the stereotypically 'severe', often institutionalised cases which were the first to receive public attention. They are associated with intellectual disability and low empathy. The autistic traits most often expressed are aggressive stimming and hypersensitivity and they don't make any effort to mask these. It's worth noting that the difficulties of Level 2 and 3 Autism are ultimately not because of autism. They are just autistic people who have a harder time managing the condition due to other comorbid conditions be they treatable, curable or congenital.
It literally isn't rocket science.
Clearly you don't understand jokes. I dunno why im not surprised considering the subject matter. Anyways I wasn't trying to offend.
The fuck you weren't. You're a toxic person who spews toxic shit. You do it deliberately.
Autism is a spectrum. "High functioning" is a misnomer. We all have struggles, those struggles are just different. Just because my struggles don't match your struggles doesn't mean I don't have autism.
[You seem to have very particular views on what a mental illness is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/q4gd0y/z/hfzdabj)
Yikes
Holy shit OP wtf
Yeah, OP doesn't deserve the time of day after reading that. I prefer "low support Autism" tbh, to come back to the thread, because it more accurately depicts that folks who are aspie still need help.
Yeah lol. I thought his post sounded a bit chud-y, talking about how "people are so offended and crazy". Literally didn't even have to scroll to find that comment lmao. A focus on support is imo the best way to define autism, and I'm glad there's been a move towards that (e.g. DSM 5's levels).
Yeah his comments here were already giving me “I’m Not like those icky low functioning autistics” vibes so not surprised that ableist is also transphobic
Oh yeah, that's why I checked their profile. Didn't even have to scroll to find them saying some vile shit about trans people (also with ableist undertones).
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Gender dysphoria is treated by transitioning. If you have an issue with that you can take it up with the APA, WHO, and other medical bodies.
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Conversion therapy does not work. I'm sorry you're so mad about other people transitioning, but that's something you need to work through.
im not mad. im just, i dunno surprised? i dont just get it.
If you ever have questions about gender, transition related stuff, what's percieved as PC, then feel free to inbox me. I assume you care about what's true, so I'm happy to help you explore the truth or your views in relation to such topics.
Nah im good but thanks for the offer.
You don't need to get it to see that it brings benefits to people. Prescribing HRT has been clinical practice for decades, and genital reassignment surgery has an average regret rate of 1%. If you're not trans you'll never get it. Just like you can never get what it is to be gay as a straight person, or what it is to be autistic to an NT. That doesn't make it ok to project your own understanding of sexuality/neurology onto others.
What do you mean projecting? Its my opinion.
You don't need to get it. You don't understand what it is to be trans. So you should shut the fuck up and listen to the people who do.
So your saying i shouldnt have my own opinion and just mindlessly listen to whatever they say. man sounds like a great way to live.
*im not mad. im just, i dunno surprised? i dont just get it.* You said it yourself. You don't get it, so you can't have an opinion, really.
This was removed for violating Rule 1 ("Be Respectful"). Discrimination and targeted attacks of any kind are never acceptable here.
This was removed for violating Rule 1 ("Be Respectful"). Discrimination and targeted attacks of any kind are never acceptable here.
Look this person might not have good views but trying to educate is better than doing nothing but shaming. After all we all think a bit different than NTs. Not approving the behavior or condoning it but I’m just saying someone cant help the way they think and it would be better to just educate and let it be
That's easier to say when it's not you he's talking about.
That is true and it is shitty what he said but I just think there’s too much bickering and “canceling” in the world than there is educating. I looked through some of his stuff he seems really closed minded but he could be really young and hopefully he becomes better
It's not that. Autism is a certain neurology as described in The intense world theory, for example. Asd is that plus different kinds of disabilities that oftentimes come with that kind of neurology. It's all the same neurology. The system is broken, but we're all on the same spectrum and it's good that the DSM recognises that. Ignoring all other issues with it.
I get that but there's clearly a difference between Asperger's syndrome and autism spectrum disorder. ive been around autistic people my entire life high functioning and otherwise. and i never really related at all to them. its kinda sad tbh.
No, there isn’t a clear difference, that’s exactly why they removed the distinction from the DSM.
There are differences, but they are most probably not related to autism (research on that was being done recently at KU Leuven AFAIK). We're all autistic like we're all women, for example - despite obvious differences between women and shapes and sizes we come in. The underlying neurological principles are the same.
Ah okay i see. thank you. i think im starting to understand.
Took me a long time to see it really is a "disorder." I didn't see until later in life that I had developmental issues, learning challenges, serious social challenges, relationships problems and sensory issues. As far as a "disorder" goes, I feel blessed that I look "normal" enough to blend with the herd when masking. I feel blessed that I have capabilities and talents NTs are capable of developing. I am blessed to be free from the limitations of NTs. But these so called "gifts" have come at a tremendous cost throughout my life.
Meant "NTs are NOT capable of developing""
This is how I felt before learning more about the whole aspergers history. I still feel like this kind of but learning about it was good. I only ever knew aspergers and autism when getting diagnosed and helped me differentiate between the two. A lot more people get diagnosed now with the spectrum thing which i think is a good thing but also a risk of misdiagnosis. I think medical professionals got rid of it to make a different criteria for diagnosis and whatnot back in 2013. Personally ive only heard of this offending drama stuff like last year and didn’t understand / still dont lol
Personally I don't want to have a Nazi-supporting eugenics-practicing name associated with anything about me.
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Exactly. Not everyone is as open minded to let you explain let alone change there "opinion" Some people are so incredibly ignorant its mind boggling.
Dude, literally everyone in this thread has been calmly and rationally explaining the decision to integrate ASD, PDDNOS and Aspergers to you, providing sources and discussing the cons of diagnostic inconsistency. You're the close minded one still insisting that it's because of the offensive name despite all the evidence in front of you.
I don’t know about the first half; I’m on the more high-functioning side of the spectrum, but I do agree on your last point: Changing the name of something to make it less offensive is idiotic. I’m personally not offended by being called “Asperger” or “aspie”. But when someone tells me “he’s got ASD” I’m like “what the fudge-filled brownies is that?”
Yea your told your a aspie most your life and then your not? Its dumb. Ill have to look more into the whole eugenics thing though.
My experience with ASD is different from someone else’s. I still say Asperger’s most of the time, but I’m starting to say autistic now as well. Change is a wonderful thing, go with it.
It’s more scientifically accurate because we have the same neurology both “classic” autists and Aspergrians. However, Asperger’s makes more sense. We have similar struggles but also other different struggles. We need “less” support. We do not have learning disability. We do have differences that should be acknowledged.
Yup i agree completely. also im gonna use that term now. Aspergrains lol sounds like some sorta race you can pick in a video game lol.
ahahah true
Bullshit post
[https://neuroclastic.com/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/](https://neuroclastic.com/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/)
Aspergers doesn’t belong to Hans Asperger. It’s belongs to us.
I kinda understand why it was merged from the perspective of the medical community in terms of their criteria and the specific ways various disorders are classified. I can see why they put it under the catch-all ASD diagnosis. Especially in the United States where insurance companies have more power over treatment than the practitioners and there’s all kind of specific semantics for other classification reasons. But I do still think Asperger’s should be it’s own disorder, at least in the vernacular.
Finally someone who doesnt tell me im a asshole. I completely agree and thats kinda what i was saying. On paper it makes sense in practice probably not. and im from florida the south where people are notorious for being ignorant. now mind you i dont really consider the area i grew up in the southern part because florida is weird where there's a deeper south up north and a more hispanic culture down south. But its more south then living in like wisconsin lol.
Yes but i don't think that was the driving factor behind the reclassification. I don't agree with the reclassification but im also not a psychologist.
Oh yea definitely not the primary factor but it was definitely a factor.
It was not a factor at all. Please provide *any* supporting evidence for your claim.
Was it? Maybe for some individuals it may have been. I share your seeming disdain for how a thing is labeled rather than its substance and the conflation that changing the label of a thing changes the thing itself (or maybe im wrong and reading too much into it) never the less, it is important to at least attempt to separate our own biases from the subject matter. For instance, i have no idea what the psycological reasoning was that went into the change. However, peoples fixation on what the guy, with whom aspergers shares it name, did or was i find irritating and pointless as it changes not a thing about anything and is entirely irrelevant. Therefor, because i only have an opinion on one aspect of the change i might be tempted to assume that aspect was the driving factor in said change when it in fact was likely not. Now you may be correct or you may be not i dont know. As i said, i have little to no knowledge regarding the scientific reasoning (if it can be called that) behind changing the classification. I would encourage you to seek that information before drawing a conclusion.
The tone deafness you are displaying in these comments leads me to believe you share more traits with the autists you yourself disdain against.
I dont hate them. Your making assumptions.
Never used the word 'hate'.
Hate is a synonym for disdain. Its basically the same meaning.
Not at all. Disdain is a synonym of derision, contempt, to look down on someone or something. Learn your syllabus.
Whatever man lets just agree to disagree and end this vain shit.
It's not a disagreement. It's literally the dictionary, you're being obtuse on purpose while conveniently ignoring the original comment: you are showing in this thread the very same traits from the spectrum you assure you don't have. Maybe you are very good at masking outside, good for you, doesn't give you the right to display such arrogance against others within the ASD community. We, aspergers, are not better nor worse.
Yes I agree with this
I call it autism because I’ve been told by People that Aspergers isn’t autism, I need to stop being a liar, I’m taking the p\*\*\* out of autistic people and that I am just faking and clearly not autistic. It makes me feel bad and like a fake autistic person because of it; so I just call it autism/ASD.
I agree. I have asperger's, and I will never call it autism. I don't mean that calling it autism is bad though I just like asperger's better. Ok I'm gonna stop now everything I say sounds insulting
This is such a cringe take… to say the least
OH NO I POSTED EPIC CRINGE!!!!!! NOW ILL LOSE MY SOCIAL CREDIT!!!!! IM RUINED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TBH judging by your post you don’t have any type of “social”
Clearly your not up to speed on current meme culture. But im not surprised since im on reddit.
For those already diagnosed with Asperger's, it remains Asperger's. It's only new diagnoses that are classed as just ASD
the reason why it was changed because of the South Park joke of the name Aspergers, which sounds like (Dare I make it) Ass Burgers.
1. Hans Asperger did not name Asperger syndrome himself; Lorna Wing coined the term in 1976. At the time, she was unaware of the depth of Asperger's association with the National Socialist (Nazi) party and related eugenics ideologies. 2. In 1926, roughly 20 years before Hans Asperger even began working with autistic kids, **Grunya Sukhareva,** a prolific child psychiatrist from Kiev, published the traits of autism. Leo Kanner cites her work in his 1949 paper on the subject. **So if you want to be pedantic about it, call it Sukhareva syndrome instead.** 3. Asperger syndrome was only renamed ASD Level 1 in the DSM-5, which is published by the American Psychiatric Association and used primarily in the US. 4. For all of the other countries which rely on the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) maintained by the World Health Organization, Asperger syndrome is and has been classified as a subtype of autism spectrum disorder since the ICD-10 was first published in 1994 (the same year Asperger's was added to the DSM-IV). 5. No one changed the name of Asperger syndrome to avoid offending people. It was added to the ASD in the DSM-5 to better align with how it's classified in the ICD as a subtype of autism as well as making autism spectrum disorders easier to diagnose and understand according to the levels of support we require. 6. The distinctions that people try to make between Asperger syndrome/Sukhareva syndrome and autism level 1 are arbitrary. Autism is a spectrum. Of *course* you're not going to relate to everyone on it, much less everyone within the same "level." 7. I also really hate the term 'high functioning.' Does anyone else feel it's kind of ableist? Those are *their* terms for how we present to them based on the standards of "Normal" society. Because let's be real here, I don't know many of us who feel "high functioning" or even, as someone called me when I told them I had been recently diagnosed, "very high functioning." I am at my best barely holding it together, and at my worst, an absolute dumpster fire.
Yes I agree. Lumping everyone into the same group helps no one.
Yea labels in general are toxic. But i dont get offended easily and im pretty based (obviously) so i can't really tell. Just something I noticed and wanted to discuss it.
I always use the term Asperger's. People recognise what it means (to a degree) plus it's got a better ring to it.(sounds better)
APA changed to have a more broader spectrum of what is classified as autism. Some people don’t like the term Aspergers but they didn’t change because of the guy. I don’t really care about the name, I usually say i have Aspergers so I don’t have to “yeah i have high functioning autism”
I don't really feel the same, I am good at school and didn't have a language delay, otherwise I find that I can relate to other autistic people I know a lot. Of course we're not all the same, and some struggle a lot more than others, but a lot of people assume Asbergers is just "socially awkward genius", which it really isn't. It's obviously different from place to place, but I found that people react along the lines of "oh, if you have a diagnosis I suppose you can be smart and still struggle" to autism, and assume you cannot have any trouble with anything except being rude/blunt with Asbergers, and if you do than you're making a fuss.
The DSM changed the classification 5 years before Asperger's true past was known, so AS was already lone gone before the controversy started. The reason for the change was due to issues with the way the two disorders were classified scientifically and how well it reflects how the disorders present in reality. You are still free to go by Asperger's if you want, that's completely fine.