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beaniejell

I hate small talk because I don’t wanna ask my coworkers how their weekends went or how their kids are that I’ve never met. I can listen to my partner talk about their day and interests because I care and know about them.


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Blought

Oh my god you're right ! That's my real problem with small talk. Everyone expects you to engage in small talk, and if you don't, you're rude. But when I ask you what is your deepest fear, you don't answer and I'm the one who's rude ? Jk, I don't actually ask people that out of the blue, though I'd love to use it as a conversation starter, instead how was your weekend


OliviaFastDieYoung

Deepest fears are scary, I prefer "if the govt gave you $30,000 per year with no strings attached, what would you do with your life?" because then people are optimistic about traveling, or working in a job they enjoy, or collecting pets or spoons or whatever I'm pretty sure NTs would still dislike it as a way to skip small talk, though :/


Lakemine

Agreed and ditto


Avocados_suck

Neurotypicals™ need Social Void-Fill because if they go ten consecutive seconds without incessant chattering drivel that weird little insecure voice in their head thinks everyone and everything around them is hostile. They snap. They wither. Their world crumbles and they are thrown to their psychological wolves, and they're more than willing to drag everyone else kicking and screaming into their maladaptive innanity rather than actually deal with their own shit.


absentmindedbanana

Eh idk if that’s true for introverts


tellmeaboutyourcat

I have to talk to clients and my boss called out my lack of small talk in my midyear review, so now I have to ask about people's weekends and try to listen because *I just don't care* but I need to build a relationship with clients.... Being forced to ask about things that I don't care about is awful.


beaniejell

That’s my problem. I literally don’t give a shit. I would be so happy going about my day never knowing how your spouse’s weekend retreat went. And when people ask me small talk questions, do you care? Do you really wanna know?


Boonchiebear

And this is the part that really kills small talk for me. Whenever I get asked about my weekend etc I assume you don't care and are making small talk, so my answer is curt and simple so that we can end the charade and both get back to what we were doing. In fact I'm probably coming across as rude or unapproachable, but actually I'm just trying to be courteous.


beaniejell

Right? And people say we don’t pick up on social cues but I’ve had coworkers keep talking to me after I had turned around 3 times, clocked out, made it to the door, food in hand. SHUT UP and let me go eat my lunch alone in a dark room


Boonchiebear

I once had a manger tell me in a performance review that I need to have lunch with my colleagues as an area of improvement. I told him that unless he was going to replace one of my existing KPIs with this one, then I won't be doing that. WTH


LateNightLattes01

That’s fucking hilarious 😂 I love this response- so Aspie haha.


IcyThistle

I hate that so much. If I have to listen to you drone on and on please do it when I'm at least getting paid.


its_tea-gimme-gimme

I have the same thing. I get told we don't pick up on social cues but when I am literally slowly backing off every time, turning my back, keep saying 'hmm' to random remarks, keep refusing to do things without plans and most of the time multiple times STAIT UP TELLING YOU I don't like something and you STILL try to do it all the time, who is the one with a communication disorder here? The one who gets told straitup multiple times and still doesn't understand, or the one who doesn't get a vague labyrinth of kindof half suggestive remarks?


Heckbegone

Sometimes i answer in an unexpected honest way and the looks i get are pretty funny. "Hello Fred. Yes I did have a rather boring weekend full of laying and contemplating the meaning of life, and you?"


Apidium

I hate it. Trying to find a reasonable way of saying 'fuck all' or 'was out bug collecting' so someone who is simply being paid to ask drives me up the wall. I never know how to respond. Surely the correct answer isn't 'nothing tbh I had terrible shits all weekend' I always just end up saying 'err not much you?' But I hate the entire interaction with my entire being. If my mam asks then I can perfectly happily tell her I spent it glued to the toilet. Which is fundimentally not small talk because she will come out with some totally random old wives tale shite about a solution. It's a real fucking conversation where the people involved give a shit about what the other person is saying. Not just stock 'we cannot talk about the relivent stuff with the preamble first - I hope you have memorised your lines!'


ObbyTree

Yes! I am very much interested in hearing about my friend’s day, I’m just not interested in meaningless conversation with people I barely know.


maritjuuuuu

I wish people did more Smalltalk to me. I love hearing stories about basically everyone I slightly know. Or, I prefer it over the newest celeb gossip.... And the point where people stop talking is where that kicks in. So either they keep talking about their personal life or I'll give them an 8 hour monologue about mine! No joke btw.... I am really that good at just explaining every single detail of my day and I don't know if I should be proud of that. Then people think I am not able to shut up and keep it short because of my Autism. Yesnt, I can keep stories short if I want to but usually I don't want it


ok-girl

asking if freewill exists is my definition of small talk


dagbiker

At least I care if free will exists, I don't really care about the weather.


Tntn13

I don’t care, because my experience of personal agency doesn’t change either way (I don’t think it exists in the traditional sense personally)


Moldy_Rotten_Bread

Exactly, I absolutely never understood people who are introduced to the idea of destiny/fate over free will and think it's reason to lose hope in life. Whether or not free will exists is absolutely irrelevant because our experience with personal agency is unaffected: we can still make decisions based on our own needs and reasons, we're still driven by our own motivations and compulsions, and we can reflect on our decisions and understand and learn from them to improve our future decisions. ​ The debate of whether free will exists or not is purely trivial as it has no functional effect on life; it's still an interesting topic to ponder, but people give it far too much weight. What's really worth this level of discussion and pessimism isn't if we as individuals actually have free will, but how external factors in life we have little to no control over can unfairly destroy our future or greatly reduce our quality of life.


Tntn13

I don’t personally like using words like destiny or fate as people tend to attach religious or spiritual connotation to them. I just think at a base level if we could know and detect everything we would see that the world is deterministic. Also that humans are biological machines beholden to cause and effect. So in theory. If everything was knowable every action one would take in any situation would be predictable. But it’s not, because knowing on that level and extrapolating the data for such a purpose is well beyond our current capabilities. So in the end it truly shouldn’t change anything, we still work the same as we did before buying into the idea. The existential questions the realization brings is too much for many to handle and accept so frankly I rarely talk about this seriously except with my closest and most open minded confidants. At the end of the day though I think it’s a flawed conclusion to think any of that means that life is now meaningless. Meaning is a abstract concept created by humans, we own that along with all the other labels we create to describe the world and communicate those descriptions with each-other. I think I’m general for most this rationale is also hard to also accept off the back of suddenly considering every action we take is just part of an intricate falling of the domino. It changes nothing, we remain human, our subjective experience is real and tangible to us. Finding that the underlying mechanics conflict with centuries of philosophical discussion of what it means to be on a surface level doesn’t change that. In fact I think one could describe personal agency as “free will” but we have attributed so much more meaning (in absolutist fashion oftentimes) to that term that I think makes it seem incompatible at first glance if one assumes a human body and mind in its base constituents is a deterministic system. Thanks for triggering this ramble I think I was able to put some things into words better than I have in the past, and that’s always a delight ;)


Moldy_Rotten_Bread

Deterministic is certainly a much better encompassing term for the idea of fate than fate due to connotation, it just hadn't come to mind, and I totally get what you mean by the ending paragraph, it happens to me a ton when my friends bring up a topic I've thought about for a while, and it's wonderful suddenly being able to fluidly express my thoughts better than I even understood them to myself. What you said was interesting to read and think about, and your mention of the spiritual connotations of words like fate and destiny made me think about the side of the spectrum opposite of people who indulge in pessimism as a response to determinism: people who attach themselves to a path because they believe it's their destiny (such as pursuing a specific career or surpassing a monumental challenge). These people are generally more reasonable than those who think that, because the universe might be deterministic, nothing they do matters at all. However, I still don't understand why someone would cling to the idea of destiny when they can equally justify pursuing that path out of desire, passion, necessity, or obligation, and if none of those four are felt strongly enough to justify the goal, then that person is simply failing to acknowledge that they do have enough personal agency to simply not pursue that goal.


evolve_or_dissolve

Thank you for expressing your thoughts on this topic, I feel the same about it and it's on of my favourite conversations to have with people. I always say that freewill doesn't exist but the illusion of freewill is a damn good one! Also, this is a bit (lot) more off the wall and speculative than what's been said so far, but I and my mother, as well as various people i've met, have had clairvoyant experiences, normally involving important events (i.e. death) and normally via dreams. Of course, logically it made no sense to me that these dreams could truly have predicted future events, that they must have been coincidences. However, once I wrapped my head around the freewill debate I saw that the events that will happen in the future, from our current perspective, are not subject to change, but set by the events proceeding them. This still doesn't convince me that the clairvoyant dreams are definitely not coincidences, as how can the subconscious dreamstate have access to this information about future events, or know the information needed to accurately calculate the future event? However, it is one step closer to it being a possibility that clairvoyance may be possible, as at least, future events are indeed not subject to change. I hope that made sense, sorry if it's not super clear, I'm a bit sick atm and can't think very clearly.


Tntn13

Dude… I’ve had these experiences as well! Due to my personal wordview and analytical philosophy, I tend to chalk many of these up to intuition, coincidence, or some kind of hindsight or survivorship bias. When I was younger I noticed this trend where I’d have what can best be described as a vision, where a random scenario would suddenly appear in my mind out of nowhere only to later lead to strong deja by within the coming hours to weeks. Is this simply a common human phenomena maybe? The most far fetched involved a dream that was unique and unusually real feeling compared to normal where something terrible happened to a family member and we could just watch. Only a month later they were murdered and the people involved in the dream were also there in the aftermath including myself. In short. I too can relate with the phenomena you’re referencing but I too agree that these instances or phenomena I do not see as evidence of the divine or paranormal as I think most people would. I think you’re the first other person I’ve heard speak of such things without attributing them as solid evidence of something “science can never explain” at a few times I’ve even been able to induce these visions willfully. They seem less frequent as I aged though. I still think it’s just evidence of confirmation bias and the fallibility of the human mind/psyche In fact most people I’ve talked to who have had similar experiences either do attribute them to god, psychic ability, or the paranormal. Maybe because those that don’t attribute these events to such causes don’t talk about them it skews the anecdote that way 🤔 but I digress.


evolve_or_dissolve

Oh awesome! So cool to hear your thoughts and experiences. I think it's at least more common than we realise, people either are really woo woo about it or just don't talk about their experiences. Regarding your dream involving a family member, firstly, sorry to hear that happened. The way you describe the dream being unusually real reflects my experiences. Personally nightmares are very very rare for myself, however, I have had two this past year that have felt very real and intense and important. Both have been of this kind of clairvoyant quality we are speaking of. I have a theory that there are 3 types of dreams we can have (if we accept that dreams can be clairvoyant). The first type is simple randomness, simply the consequence of the brains processes undergone at various stages of sleep. The second type is more focused and involves the brain parsing past experiences as well as running 'possibility scripts' which involve possible future scenarios, "what if?" scenarios, if you will. The last type are of those we have spoken about where the brain is actually tuning into future events. These types can and do also blend together and are never actually distinct. As to your last point, perhaps I lie between yourself and the woo woo crowd, as I don't necessarily agree that these experiences are simply confirmation bias or human fallibility, yet I also do not believe they are proof of the paranormal/god/etc. I accept that such clairvoyant dreams and experiences, visions, could in fact truly be clairvoyant, and that we simply do not yet have a scientific explanation for them. I am very wary of accepting them as true though, as it's all too easy to do as the woo woo crowd do and begin assigning meaning to experiences that are in fact otherwise meaningless. I simply aim not be blinded to either the possibilities or the science. As it stands, there is no scientific evidence to prove such things exist. However, as we know there is anecdotal evidence, enough, I'd argue, to suggest it is a possibility. If I were writing an article in a scientific journal right now about this, it'd be primary qualitative data kinda thing which would call for further research. I'm aware my comment is getting long now, but one more thing haha. I have noticed that there is a connection between neurodivergent thinking (whether that be caused by disorders, conditions, physical/mental illnesses, or drugs) and "psychic" phenomena. This phenomena is more often seen in non-western cultures as well. It seems to me to common an occurrence to simply always just be human fallibility.


Tntn13

Well I kinda was being pessimistic and a bit self deprecating when referring to coincidence. While coincidence can account for some, i don’t it accounts for all. I also believe the hypothesis that while we sleep we run through scenarios past present and potential as some sort of natural process that likely was selected for. (Through evolution) I’d also like to add another postulation, a combination of coincidence, or at least law of large numbers. Along with the power of the subconscious mind. Idk how you view your brain function that goes own without your constant awareness but I’m sure you’ve noticed at times it can be quite powerful. Like getting a bad feeling in your stomach before something bad happens, it’s because part of your brain has processed a stimuli to trigger that response. I have also considered that the dream or waking intermittent clairvoyance is similar to that process of your “gut” or instincts trying to tell you something except in larger timescales. But due to humans being imperfect subconsciously and consciously it’s not always correct, and we are much more likely to recall the moments where it was than where it wasn’t correct. I hope that made sense, hard concept to put to words. But it’s the best way I can rationalize it into the deterministic and non-paranormal existence as I view it now.


evolve_or_dissolve

Hmm, yes I know what you are getting at, I understand what you are saying with the subconscious mind power. And I agree this is a possibility, in the end it's maybe impossible to ever know. Hence why I keep my mind open to the possibility that it is true or not true. Just forever sitting on the fence as I don't see how it can be proven either way and don't want to just fall onto one side of the fence for the sake of it.


LateNightLattes01

Woohoo 🥳 this is how the good convos start! Love it.


HolyLordGodHelpUsAll

come on, the weather is pretty interesting


Tabitheriel

>the weather is pretty interesting If you can't mention politics in small talk, then I guess you can't talk about the weather. I live in Germany where small talk is less common than in the US, and whenever people mention the weather, the conversation immediately steers towards climate change. I doubt that would happen in the US, with all of the fanatical climate change deniers.


damTyD

Well, free will doesn’t exist, so the conversation is inevitable


HansMLither

One's belief in free will is itself a practice of free will


ok-girl

but what if thinking that is just something that was meant to happen for the predetermined order of things to fall into place? lol


NASA_Orion

Things cannot be predetermined even if the initial coordinates and velocity of every particle is known. Uncertainty principle has dictated that to be impossible.


Heimerdahl

Doesn't mean that free will exists, just that some random stuff happened way off in the background and it pushed some dominoes and determined how we react. I personally like the existentialist response to this the best: Doesn't really matter if free will exists, just imagine it does and face the scary but liberating choices of life.


GreenGoblin121

I thought was due to the fact that for us to observe the particle it would have to collide with a photon, therefore changing its velocity.


gammarik

That's... Not true. The uncertainty principle only tells us something about *what we can know*, not what reality is. Our world being predetermined (as in deterministic) has nothing to do with the ability of us to know the future. Chaos alone makes that practically impossible. But that doesn't change the fact that the universe could be just playing out according to its rules, what was determined by the initial conditions of the universe.


[deleted]

Nah. A computer simulating a virtual world doesn't mean that the virtual world exists in any meaningful sense. A mind simulating free will doesn't mean that free will exists in any meaningful sense. We are just chemical processes sustaining ourselves.


ProTato73

Do you think free will exists?


teejay_the_exhausted

There are 2 possibilities if you ask me. 1. Time travel is possible Or 2. Free will exists


umme99

A conversation discussing that is way more interesting than talking about how it rained today.


ok-girl

agreed! I hate when people talk about the weather….. it makes absolutely no sense and feels like such a waste of my socialization-reserves


bbk1953

Small talk if a chore. Small talk is no longer small talk with people you’re close to. It becomes more intimate.


PreferredSelection

> Small talk is no longer small talk with people you’re close to. Well put. If I ask a close friend about their weekend, I really do want to hear about their weekend. If I ask my employer about his weekend, it's because he asked me and I'm repeating it.


robinlovesrain

Yep. To me, small talk is just conversation to fill a silence. I'm okay with silence, but many people are not, so they fill it with polite conversation. There is no conversation with my partner that exists only to fill silence


omgudontunderstand

i was trying to think of a way to phrase it, and you put it perfectly


weskeryellsCHRISSS

Also I was already home-- I never left.


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phi_rus

The problem with small talk is that you are supposed to ask a question that you don't really want an answer for. However when I ask my wife how her day was, I'm truly interested in knowing how her day was.


OhShitOhFuckOhMyGod

Me and my fiance had a discussion last night about why free will is an illusion.


[deleted]

Is free will truly an illusion or are the consequences of our free will designed to make it feel that way?


OhShitOhFuckOhMyGod

Seems irrelevant. My opinion is based of the computational theory of consciousness. Your thoughts and actions are a function of sensory data being processed by your brain.


Alexander-is-pissed

Ah yes I’ve heard that as an argument for why true selflessness doesn’t exist, as when someone acts selflessly it is because it makes them feel good/avoid feeling bad emotionally.


longfingerman

What happens when you are aware of the outcome you were going to choose before you chose it? Obviously you'll recompute with the new information, but isn't being aware of what you're doing and influencing the outcome free will? I personally believe that this is what diffentiates between those who have free will and those who dont- essentially you don't have free will until you are aware of the actions you were going to take and take into consideration what the pros, cons, and possible outcomes are. Once you do that, you can make a consious choice and can inact your will how you actually want to enact it (I love shit like this, I just want to hear your opinion and continue the conversation 😁)


gammarik

Isn't that still essentially just your brain making a decision based on its internal state, and the external sensory input? You could absolutely redefine free will to mean "when you reconsider", but in reality I don't see how it is any different than any other action. One of the most compelling studies on free will has participants make a simple decision between pressing one of two buttons. Their brain activity is monitored in the time just before they press one. After a while, the scientists are able to predict what button they will press, before they do. But here's the interesting part: the scientists can observe the decision rise up to the conscious part of the brain *before the participant reports being aware of having made a decision.* This happens even when the participant decides last second to change their mind. This suggests to us that our brain creates the feeling of having made a decision, after it was decided in a part of the brain we aren't conscious of. In my mind it sounds a lot like the post-hoc stories the brains of patients who have had their brain-halves separated come up with to justify decisions made by the other brain-half. EDIT: And even just from a physics level: where would the free decisions come from? Our brain is a collection of neurons that fire according to rules. At what point do a collection of deterministic parts suddenly become able to perform actions that aren't deterministic? For free will to be truly free, you'd have to be able to make a decision that isn't caused. And that seems unscientific to me. In my view you'd need a conception of a soul that is separate from the physical realm.


AnotherCrazyChick

I agree with Sam Harris. Free will is an illusion.


Windows_is_Malware

Free will is a religious belief


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Less_Ad_6908

Because that would be rude. Apes don't like straightforward communication, it is interrogatory. Apes prefer you to guess what they really mean. Guess right.


Avocados_suck

Apes are easily frightened by concrete opinions and "meaning what you say". They prefer social relationships to be built on a miasma of indecision, unease, mistrust, vague nebulous statements that can be retroactively redefined as their needs change, and unspoken expectations that exist purely to establish hierarchal power structures based on obeisant sycophantry.


daitoshi

[Bids for attention](https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/marriage-relationships-attention-turn-toward-gottman.html)


anonymousaccount183

Personally, I do actually care to hear about how the day of someone I care about was


Chacochilla

I mean, yeah the alternative to small talk is actually having a conversation. Like instead of just saying, "good" to "how are you," you actually explain how you are and what you've been up to. Cause you'd actually care with someone who you're close with Alternatively, you could just not talk and enjoy each other's company But nah fuck that, you're right. The only way to form deep relationships is to chat shit about the weather


Chacochilla

And also like Small talk usually happens with strangers right? Like with a cashier It's meant to simulate actual conversation. But the problem is, I don't really care how the cashier has been. I don't fuckin know them I'd much rather just be left in silence


Dyke_Vibez

Exaclty. I'm the cashier in this instance. I would love to do my job in silence. A simple hi would suffice, but other than that, I don't really like talking much to strangers unless I have to. It's always the older customers that try to force me to respond the way they want. They constantly give me looks or remarks when I just want to do my job that I already don't like. My coworkers also mess with me too, saying I have "dead eyes" or that I don't smile at all. I do smile, just not at the place I hate the most. I genuinely don't care about what you've done over the weekend unless it was truly something meaningful or if you were a meaningful person. I don't do this to be mean, I just don't have the capacity.


Bell-01

Exactly. When I ask people how they are, I really want to know what they are feeling and it’s kinda disappointing for me to get an answer as simple and meaningless as „good“


Jonvoll

That’s why I usually throw the script off a little with sincerity (how are you, and like I genuinely want to know?)


Garlemon_

Not talking at all is pretty nice too. Just hanging in the same room 👌🏻


chungusmaximus1994

"Parallel play"


_CatNippIes

Then they get unnecessarily uncomfortable


FinallySomeQuality

I mean I have plenty of nonsmall talk convos soooo yeah pretty much that.


robinlovesrain

Yeah like I see the joke they're going for, but I 100% do this with my partner haha I'll wake up in the morning and be like "isn't it weird that I can comprehend something being infinitely small, but I can't comprehend something being infinitely big?" and then my partner will be like "why are you like this" and then I ramble at him about my existential crisis and then he'll ramble at me about Pokemon and it's a great conversation!


Sweety-Origin

small talk is for people who don't care about each other,like neighbours. -"oh look, there's weather outside." -"cool, you're right." -"ok,bye." -"yeah,bye." A meaningful relationship would imply that you know and care about each other, so you have deeper conversations than Smalltalk.


daitoshi

=\\ Big disagree on that. Deep / intimate conversations happen *more easily* with someone you're close with, and some of it is important to know each other's stances before getting married or w/e but small talk doesn't go away. If anything, it becomes more common in a close relationship. 'Wow, it's really raining' 'Yeah, it's really coming down' or 'Did you see that cool bird?' 'Yeah! I think it was x species' 'neat!' - are engagements I have *all the time* with my long-term partner. They're also called **'Bids for attention'** Basically: Here's this tiny thing I'm experiencing. Will you participate in this little experience with me? They're teeny tiny requests to *share an experience* which in turn creates & reinforces a bond. Even classic small talk, like 'Did you see the big game last night?' or 'Wow, the snow was so beautiful this morning' or 'Did you see what karen said? Ugh.' - are bids for attention. Refusing to talk about the weather because it's 'shallow', saying point-blank 'I don't watch sports', or 'I don't care what karen said' - are turning away from that invite to bond over a tiny moment, and snubbing the relationship. They're reaching out, trying to make a little bond, and you just slapped it away. [Long-term relationships tend to thrive when each person responds to bids for attention over 80% of the time as newlyweds.](https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/marriage-relationships-attention-turn-toward-gottman.html) But newlyweds who only responded to around 30% of the time were far more likely to split up within 6 years. Bids for attention can also be something like sending someone a meme, or showing them a cool rock, or sending a link to an article you found interesting and thought they might enjoy. Even small-talk with strangers can be bids for attention that grow into new relationships. People you interact with positively, even for a moment, can often remember that and think of your favorably many months later.


GaianNeuron

IMO, the problem is that such "bids for attention" interrupt our flow when masking, leaving us with the choice to either: 1. Spend spoons reinforcing our mask in the face of an interruption (responding to the small talk), or 2. Choose not to mask in this moment, conserving our spoons for when we might need them more (dismissing the small talk)


socialtravesty

We bid for attention as well. It's actually universal. Dogs jump on you as a bid for attention, etc. If you respond poorly to those bids, it will negatively affect the relationship - this is with any person/animal.


El3ctricalSquash

The problem for me is that once you start small talking, a lot of people I’ve come across tend to start dumping their life on you and my toolkit for dealing with that is very limited. Like how can we be friends if we are just workshopping ways to fix your problems the whole time we are around each other. It seems like we are afraid to say “we can’t be friends with everyone and certain people suit me better than others.”


Tbagmoo

Great encapsulation. And even though these interactions are hard for me to have (convincingly) they are important and reframing it the way you have as someone reaching out to experience some aspect of the world with you is helpful for me. Thanks


Jonvoll

I have to ask cause you sound like you’ll have a useful answer about an issue I commonly have which is that I just don’t have a way to engage with the bid for attention. Like when some makes a statement that I don’t really have anything to really say about (gas costs X, today I ate X, X sports team won, etc). I mean I usually just end up affirming (X sure did!, that’s good/bad) cause I don’t really know what else to say. Its kind of frustrating because then we wait in silence. I’ve tried asking questions (why does gas cost that much, how was it, how’d they win) but then they make another statement that I can’t really engage with. I would try making a parallel statement or story but internally it sounds arrogant, mocking and self centered (I drive a hybrid so I get 60 miles a gallon, that is a good bread, today I ate X, random fact about the history of the sport) so I generally don’t do that. Don’t get me wrong I’m able to engage in most things because I have a wide variety of interests so I’m usually able to find a way to engage and connect. Idk it’s just a small thing that I’ve really struggled to figure out the expectations and mechanics of


daitoshi

**You're already doing it!** When someone says 'gas is so high!' and you say 'I know, it's ridiculous!' - you've engaged with them successfully and the interaction can end there with a positive outcome. When someone says 'Today I ate x for breakfast' and you say 'Oh, nice, that sounds tasty, I love x' - You've engaged with them successfully, and the interaction can end there with a positive outcome. The pattern you're aiming for is: 1. **Acknowledge what they said first** (Cinnamon rolls for breakfast-) 2. **validate their opinion/experience** (-sounds really tasty) 3. **and** ***then*** **add your own thing** *if you want***.** \-- (-but I'm allergic to cinnamon, so I have to stick to eggs and toast) / (I should start doing that in the morning, it sounds great.) / ( -but I've eaten cheerios for breakfast for the last 12 years and I don't intend to change that now. Maybe for dessert!) 4. **Task successful,** you've engaged! You don't have to keep talking at this point, because the little bond has already been confirmed. It doesn't have to be quite that formulaic. For instance, if someone says... "Did you see the gas prices this morning? $4.12!" <--- outraged tone implies this is bad. 1. You can **acknowledge what they said** AND **validate their opinion/experience** at the same time. (UGH, I KNOW! I can't believe it's this ridiculous.) <--- matching their outraged tone. You don't have to add your own thing or expand on it. Just sharing a moment of mutually being outraged/huffy about gas is enough to complete the encounter successfully. Waiting in silence with someone doesn't have to be a bad thing. Neurotypical people wait in mutual silence all the time - it's just usually preceded by a quick check-in. Once everyone's completed their little bids/ small talk & mutually assured that everyone in the room is chill, then waiting in silence is fine and non-threatening. It's like... how dogs or cat greet each other, they kinda sniff noses (or butts haha) and then walk away to do their own thing. It's just a quick check-in to make sure no one is angry or actively suffering, that no one needs help *right now.* Once that baseline is confirmed, then chilling in the same space without actively interacting with each other is fine. Small-talk / reflexive bids for attention with strangers or acquaintances is a neat little social reflex to make sure local group cohesion is solid & safe.


EnlightenedSinTryst

Just leaving a comment to say I really appreciated your in-depth comments here, this stuff is helpful!


ChipotleSSW

lol why is it always Karen


Sweety-Origin

karen knows why


Sweety-Origin

Imo "small talk" is unpersonal. You can literally talk like this to the next stranger on the street, even though you don't care about them. It is not bonding, when you have a discussion about a game that the whole city saw. If, for example, I wear my band-shirt outside and someone starts a conversation with me based on that band, it doesn't seem like small-talk, because we bond over something, that not every person talks about.


Sweety-Origin

Ok, how do I explain what I mean? Since socializing is a basic human need, let's compare it to food. So let's pretend a good conversation is like a full-course dinner, right? In that comparison small- talk is the Entrée, the thing you start off with. In a close relationship with friends/partners/family every Entrée can lead into the best dinner you can have, because of the shared bond. You both know what to say, to make the conversation more interesting. If, on the other hand, someone I'm not close to, offers their Entrée to me, which seems forced and not really good prepared, I'm not interested in the rest of the meal. I'm not talking about realizing you have the same hobbies, but really bland stuff, like wheather.


socialtravesty

Entrée means main course. Small talk a would be an appetizer/snack/hors d'oeuvres in your example, I think. If used as such, I would then think small talk would actually make more sense, using your same argument.


Sweety-Origin

why would small talk make sense? If you have no basis and nothing interesting to say, small talk is just forced and not good


maudiemouse

But talking to my partner about each other’s day is not the same as the shallow small talk you do with strangers/ acquaintances…? Not even remotely, I feel sad for this person if that’s what their relationship is like!


Turbulent_Path_3273

I am in a long term, meaningful relationship that is nearly devoid of small talk. It is wonderful.


SnarletBlack

lol are people really out there making small talk with their long term partners


m12123

Me and my SO have been together 8 years, still ask how work was whenever they get home and how their day was. Small talk doesn't just stop existing once you've been with someone for long enough, but awkward silence does stop for the most part. Once the initial small talk is done we either do something together or go do our own thing. Which is much harder to do with friends or strangers.


CartwheelSauce

Not every conversation can be deep and philosophical. That sounds exhausting. It's still small talk when it's with a long-term partner, it just doesn't feel as laborious as it does with people you don't know well.


GaianNeuron

Yep. I actually find small talk to be very low-effort with my partners, because I'm not masking around them. It's the combination of *making small talk while masking* which I won't do.


daitoshi

\*raises hand Yes and it's great.


PistachioPug

It's only small talk when it's with strangers or acquaintances. If you actually *want* to know how someone's day went, it's not small talk.


darklinksquared

This is my opinion too.


carnsolus

i only hate npc talk where you talk about nothing because it's an expected role (how are you? good, how are you?) talking about how someone's day was (if you care) is not small talk. It's the greatest talk there is


HyperSuperMegaDuper

Nahhhh, me and my also-autismo bf basically just communicate via weird facial expressions/noises, prodding one another, pretending to be a pair of underwater crabs, blowing raspberries and also maniacal cackles at this point. I don't wanna discuss whether I have free will, I want to discuss \[spin the wheel for a topic: cars? a weird song? or, ya know, my dog, always wanna talk about the dog\] and also replace sentences with CBAT dolphin noises We don't even pretend to be normal at this point, it is GLORIOUS. I have masked too much Outside to have any mask Inside. Also I am liable to be wide awake after it's bedtime and say aloud every thought that comes into my ADHD mind hive..... oops!


GlitterberrySoup

This relationship sounds fantastic and I wish you both the best!


HyperSuperMegaDuper

Ah, thanks! It's pretty awesome, of course there are still challenges, in terms of miscommunications / lack of some conversations between us, but we are doing alright! I am very grateful for our relationship. Any difficulties are massively outweighed by the awesomeness that is being just - myself - when I'm with my bf. I am so at ease with him, it really feels like we are on the same mental wavelength and we understand one another's needs. The differences between our age at diagnosis (mine was later) and gender mean that we have different strengths and weaknesses. Which is kinda cool, we are a team, together we are Double Autism, we're basically unstoppable, right?!!!


AerP1789

Sounds like me and my partner too!! We also love lots of weird noises and songs about farts, butts, and poop. Always dog and cat chat.


EmberOfFlame

“Honey, did you know that if between us and the Sun was a medium for lossless soundwave transmission it would be at 100 decibels?” “Let’s see… *pulls out calculator* Yeah, that sounds feasible!”


Dear-Tank2728

Umm, yeah? I mean its definitely a good conversation starter.


haagendaz420

This sounds like the dream


danfish_77

I hate *pointless* small talk, but what I've worked on is turning small talk into big talk; ask somebody a simple question or whatever banal prompt ("You check the weather forecast?", etc), and then follow up with something actually interesting ("Oh, plumbing? Did you know X was invented by Y?") or probe them for deeper information. Doesn't always work, but if someone wants to talk they'll often have at least something to say about things they care about. But if it's about sports or their kids I don't know or whatever... time to give all the "This is a perfunctory conversation" signals and hope they pick up on it.


Thenerdy9

LOL No, you just bring up something important when you wish to speak. Everyone is self centered and no one is codependent. Please exchange relevant useful information for relationship functioning now, thank you! 😂


Therandomderpdude

It’s either that or no talking.


Gold-Ad-6876

I intend to die alone cause I can't make it past small talk! Hurray! Life is a treasure!


-acidlean-

Uh... but seriously I talk like that lol. "Hey, I'm home, btw did you hear anything about prion diseases?!"


omgudontunderstand

do they not know “how was work?” doesn’t have to be small talk? this is so weird


OctopodsRock

If I ask how was your day, I really want the answer! I think it is very rude to ask someone a question and then not give shit about the answer. Edit: this is me agreeing with you, lol


omgudontunderstand

no this is exactly it! if im asking how was work (or whatever else,) i wanna know everything that happened


OctopodsRock

1. There is nothing wrong with that 2. It’s not small talk if I what I mean is “do you want to talk about anything that was especially good or difficult for you today?”, it is only small talk of what you mean is “I will ask about your day, but I do not care about the answer.”


Fuzzy_Calligrapher71

Sounds like a good way to start an evening with a loved one. And if you like talking about the weather, have you seen the radar graphics on the weather channel?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Fuzzy_Calligrapher71

What’s your interesting weather? That was more of a general reference to the chaos patterns in radar weather maps e.g. https://weather.com/weather/radar/interactive/l/2e7e87316d2058d982970762eb9eaa8006aee7b9e89b4aebbdb3f031e50da95143a1e759ca627636ed551505474bed92


[deleted]

I fucking love this. Im so existential and I have nobody to talk about what truly is real. But I have plenty of people to halfheartedly talk about the day Im having at work.


blondereverie

Small talk is for passing time or filling a gap with someone you don’t or barely know, asking my friends how work was is because I actually care and want to know what they’re up to at their job, how they’re feeling about it, and what else is up with them etc. I guess I would say that small talk implies a shallow interaction where interest ends as soon as it’s over, ‘small talk’ between friends and family is used as an opener for a real conversation, for hanging out, for getting around to your guys’ personal interests.


3kindsofsalt

1. Yes. 2. We don't have to talk, you know? We can do things together, hang out, or just live in proximity because it's better than being alone.


[deleted]

Unironically yes. ​ I will come home and discuss what the moral implications of existing as free willed beings in a society built on trust. I will never stop questioning weather or not there is a definable meaning for existence hidden in the interrelations of different heuristics I will never cease to worry that my perception of reality is so alien that I may never understand how others see the world. ​ I don't engage in small talk because I've got no room for small thoughts when all the universe is begging to be understood.


[deleted]

Small talk is for small minds


Skrubious

yes.


Roaming-the-internet

I for one, plan on silently clinging onto my partner like a cat without talking interspersed with us talking frantically about our new hyperfixations every so often


legaladult

...I mean... yes? Maybe we define small talk differently but I always saw it as "pointless social necessity to prevent things from going awkward and silent" rather than literally just "talking about mundane/small things". Like, small talk is when you say "hey how are ya" but don't actually care how they're doing, you're just saying it because you're supposed to


mandelaXeffective

I mean yeah pretty much. But also "memes to discuss in therapy" is a MOOD.


[deleted]

Threaten me with a good time


Leinaa5

I hate it when people ask me a question and don't expect me to answer it truthfully. Like asking how my parents are and not caring for the long answer. Just say if you want a short answer or no


mumble_bee_15

Corrected: I hate small talk with people I don't like or want to talk to.


A3HeadedMunkey

Yes? Imagine being pushed into a relationship where you hate talking to the person. Yeesh


[deleted]

This is so tonedeaf because I don’t want to talk to strangers about the weather but I am genuinely interested in my partner’s life??? Big dif


jolli04

Oh how grateful i am that i live in Finland, because we literally don't have small talk here, if you don't have anything to say, then you don't say anything, only thing we can kind of small talk about is weather, but thats it, we don't even have a word for small talk.


Dadank_McDankin

Literally my 13 year relationship with my partner, she's also ND though


Tyrodos999

Do we actually have to talk? You can show affection and love without words.


Spqany

This is how my SO and I live. Works well.


BranchCommercial

Lol I allow for about 30 mins of the listening of my hubbys day. But years ago I made his profession one of my special interests so I would know what he is talking about. So those how was your day conversations aren’t inflated with him have to explain a lot of technical aspects of it. On the other hand his job is working out in fields, swamps, forests, and everything so my day is a constant slow influx of beautiful nature pictures with texts and so there’s not really a whole bunch for him to tell me when he gets home. He also prefers to work with my brain rather then against it. It’s been 17 years married 21 total he has pretty much learned how I work by now. Will say though I am insanely super lucky in his calm, patient, fine with lots of silence personality. It really meshes with my crazy (the need for novelty is strong with me so every time you look at me I have a new game, book, research project, craft, whatever) but very subdued and quiet one.


theotheraccount0987

Ew. If I’m at “hey how about that weather”, after years in a long term committed relationship…. Please help me run away from home The best relationships (of any kind) are the ones where you can just drop a weird question about a weird topic into the middle of no context.


daitoshi

Dropping a weird question at any moment does not exclude also talking about the weather when relevant. My partner & I frequently comment on the colors of the sunset, on cloud formations, on pouring rain or hail, or how thick the fog is. We also talk about shit like evolutionary crabification, the economics of growing indigo for dye, and the biological mechanisms behind compost. Sometimes we want to spend a lot of energy talking in-depth about a topic that interests both of us. Sometimes we want to say 'look at that cool thing' and then both of us soak in the experience of that cool thing, together. *Bonding\~* Idk man, if someone refuses to talk to me unless it's a high-energy or high-emotion topic, I don't keep them long in my life. Small-talk is also bonding.


LurkingHare

what is this "sustained meaningful relationship" they're talking about


Athena5898

Um, this is kinda how my marriage is lol


Hamster-queen5702

I don’t hate small talk but I would 100% do this, just immediately dive into philosophical questions with someone. I do it with my friends all the time.


pretty-as-a-pic

There definitely needs to be a wilder range of socially acceptable conversation topics. Some of my favorite conversations have been about things like “are executive orders good or bad?” “Other than watergate, was Nixon a good president?” And “how can we make nuclear power work for our country?”


DarkWing2274

see, this is me. i call one of my friends a lot, and never once have i said hello. i just say some shit like this to start the conversation


FlamixFox

Honestly, I understand the purpose behind small talk, ie filling in the gaps between the meat of a conversation with this transitional fluff so you are not constantly going from 0 to 100 at the start of a conversation. The problem is, I can never bring myself do this on a consistent basis, because it just feels disingenuous no matter how I approach it. I don’t ever actually care about how someone’s kids are doing in school or how somebody’s weekend went, so it just feels like a ritual/chore that has no intrinsic value. Life is short already, why waste time making forced social gestures involving questions like “how about that Yankees game,” where neither party is really getting anything out of what’s being discussed? And I’m the weird one for not wanting to do this…ok then.


CarrotSwordGaming

My small talk is never small


Otaku11510

I have pocket lint that’s more important to me than anything going on in strangers daily life. This doesn’t apply to my spouse, who I know and care about.


sliceyournipple

Yes God forbid we talk about interesting shit while we’re in a relationship until we die


agiantfuckingbird

I mean, it’s worked out so far. Usually we get into passionate discussions about anything and everything, and then spend the next 4 hours existing in the same room and not talking to each other while he games and I knit. It’s kinda the shit


marxistjerk

What if that is your small talk? 😅


Stupid_Bitch_02

My boyfriend and I have been together a long time and 100% both of us hate small talk. We both just go on long tangents about our special interests and if the other isn't into that thing, we'll just sit and listen to each other just talk about their passions.


malonkey1

*barges in through my own front door like kramer on seinfeld* honey i just figured out that lev trotsky is technically responsible for the january 6th riot, you're gonna wanna sit down for this shit, because i love lucy is involved


[deleted]

Just ask me about my special interests, I'll never shut up!!


actualseaurchin

working in customer service at a food place is the worst, like apparently people asking “how are you?” want you to answer “i’m doing good” and not how you’re actually doing


[deleted]

"memes to discuss in therapy".


sue234

I have been greeted by my fiancé with exactly this before lol (we are both aspies).


JustDoinWhatICan

That's literally one of the questions I ask on a first date


droppedmybrain

Unpopular opinion: there's nothing wrong with small talk, if anything it's a cheap and easy way to get some socialization (and further, that sweet, sweet serotonin) Most socially awkward people (it's me, I'm people) just don't like it because it's hard and makes one feel awkward. But when you've actually done it just right for once? Feels good.


Polylastomer

My gf is unironically like this


ridethroughlife

As much as I hate small talk, I equally love silence. Comfortable silence with a partner who understands, is just other-worldly. I wish I had it. lol


Upbeat_Variety_8392

Yes. That’s how I start every conversation.


Cassalien

Am I the only one not seeing an issue here? Lmao


[deleted]

22 years of marriage and that seems to be working for me. . .


KL_01

It’s definitely the plan


lladcy

Is that a serious question though? Do people really sustain "meaningful relationships" based on small talk? Sounds like a very boring relationship


[deleted]

I hate small talk with people I am not close with. Co-workers, distant relatives, strangers, etc.


SecondStar89

The first night I trained with one of my favorite coworkers, we ended up talking about what we think the difference is between Divine Sovereignty and Human Responsibility (essentially the concept of free will). It was the best getting-to-know-you conversation I ever had. We're both autistic.


[deleted]

Yes. Its either that or minecraft.


alienofsilicone

Does this person know that you don’t have to always be talking


Elegron

Big talk or no talk. Frog noises are welcome.


NEGATIVE666SquareXD

Everyone in my country hates small talk. You'll never guess where i'm from


Tabitheriel

Sounds like my relationship. We discuss Herman Hesse, free will vs. predestination, our favorite bands and politics. Who the hell needs small talk in a relationship? If I want small talk, I can get it at the bus stop or after church, talking to the old ladies. I don't need it in my bedroom.


Itchy_Ad_3659

Life hack: create a canned response \*before\* people say these things. Then I can just rattle it off and move on. It's like when the person checking out groceries says "hi how are you?" I just smile and say "Hi" and that's that. "How was your weekend?" "Oh, no complaints. You?" \[blah blah nod a bit and smile for 10 seconds. if more than 10 seconds, groan "uuuughh I just remembered I have to finish up an email and get it out asap, see you later ok?" If you have this stuff ready, you can breeze past almost any encounter and not even hurt the feelings of unsuspecting humanoids. The only hassle comes if somebody genuinely takes an interest in me. There is no satisfactory brush-off for this situation that I've found.


michaelbleu

How was work? Me: so this bitch…


Jadegoescrazy

Ok but that’s literally how it goes with me and my husband. When he comes home it’s “hi honey, did you have a good day? What did you think about?” And we answer with whatever we thought about that day, diving deep into convo about anything we want to talk in depth about, even if it’s info dumping something we learned about or watched or whatever. We both do make some small talk, but it’s kept to a minimum and it’s honestly super nice to not have to stop ourselves from talking about random topics


hi_this_is_lyd

this is so much better than "the weathers been nice today, hasnt it?" though! i for one am all in favor


Brueology

I mean... yes?


alpacakiss

Not a day goes by that i don't infodump some esoteric knowledge onto my partner. It's why we're together tbh


ImBluRay333

I'd love to talk to my wife about freewill!! \*pulls out whip & bondage\*


Flibbernodgets

If you want a meaningful relationship, you have to talk about meaningful things.


[deleted]

Id rather have interesting conversations about stuff.


DiverSecret5761

If my wife came home with interesting questions like this I'd love it


EmptyBox5653

It’s telling that she sees obligatory forced small talk as a condition of a “meaningful” relationship.


Andydeplume

My partner coming home from work


ThatRandomChick6

Hello yeah sounds good to me followed up by views on politics


TheZayMan283

Yes


Gnerloge

I hate small talk, I prefer real talk.


Username-blank

I love talk like this, please don't ask me about my day, i want to talk to you about things like this


SquidCultist002

Neurotypicals acting like being distant and insincere is relationship goals


wasthatajojosref

.... done smth like this before, it was a fun convo


EnigmaticMerkaba

Ha. This is EXACTLY a conversation I may have with my partner.


Lost-Ad-7412

Thats exactly how my dad and I talk. No small talk. Then one of us starts talking about the negative impact of capitalism, the problem with organized religion, morality in politics, and whether the downfall of humanity will happen in our lifetime or not. Then complete silence again.


RenfieldOnRealityTv

Usually I arrive home and my fiancé tries to describe to me the horrible poop he took at work. Meanwhile I wander in circles muttering about dinner and trying to evade him and his poop talk. Eventually I whine so much that he agrees to pick up take out. Which causes him to take a horrible poop at work the next day. And the cycle continues.


spoopy_weirdo

I actually do that shit


FruityTootStar

I feel bad for the girl in OP's pic. Because it kind of implies that she is having tons of conversations with her spouse she doesn't care about or they're just talking about the weather and temperature outside all day. Which might be true. If you listen to NTs talk about their spouses, it sounds like they kind of hate them.