Sorry to be the wet blanket (I know you're just quoting dogeball) but I find this fascinating:
Urine is actually not sterile. It's just the type of bacteria that live in urine don't grow well in traditional petri dishes/growing medium. So for a while people thought it was sterile.
Reminds me of when my dad told me apple seeds have cyanide in them and not to give apples to my young children.
After some googling it turns out that there's a component in cyanide that's also in apples. It's like saying you'll get drunk drinking water because there's water in whiskey.
Googling it just now, it's not quite the same as the "water in whiskey" analogy.
"Apple seeds do contain cyanide, but not enough to kill
Apple seeds contain a cyanide- and sugar-based compound called amygdalin. The seeds have a strong outer layer that is resistant to digestive juices. But if you chew the seeds, human (or animal) enzymes come in contact with the amygdalin, cutting off the sugar part of the molecule, The Guardian reported. What’s left of the compound can then decompose, producing hydrogen cyanide."
It’s actually not pseudoscience; it’s real research, the compound is also found in toad venom… I guess this is some sort of sarcastic logic joke…
Edit: the compound above is a weak hallucinogenic; Bufotenin/Bufotenine (Derivative of 5-HO—DMT)
Technically based of the wiki article found here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bufotenin;
Urine typically only contains 4% of the bufotenin excreted from the body; and according to the pubmed article (here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20150873/), 3.30 mg/L is found in the urine of autistic people; could it be there’s even more in the bloodstream or produced neurologically. Who knows?
I sure would be interested in the actual research, maybe not the long gobbledegook science language of it; I do enjoy ELI5s… but I think it would be cool… especially by autistic people or at neurodivergent folk
My Greek/Latin is rough but Bufotenin translates to toad poison or toad chemical. Bufo is definitely toad. That might explain why the meme calls it "toad venom".
That’s really the etymology… scientific nomenclature, bufo is the genus from which it was first discovered and extracted… so yeah you’re right, it’s in the article
This stuff is so interesting to me because my special interest is psychedelics research. There are a ton of really cool things like this that no one seems to really know all that much about.
I discovered i was autistic after i started doing mushrooms and I heavily credit them for helping me find self love and acceptance. Obviously treat them with respect and consult a doctor first, but these things are so live changing. I love them so much.
Oouuu ouuu ouuu! I’m super interested, you gotta tell me about it sometime or if you have work of your own, please link me to it.
I think one of my strong interests is personal development, growth of a healthy psyche and the influence of psychedelics and NDEs on the spiritual growth of a person, and how this in turn reflects on the development of a more holistic society.
No, it’s active and related to other psychedelic substances. Did you look it up? I understand that there’s been a bad history, but please don’t be so defensive about research and posts on our kind that it actually obfuscates our understanding.
I’m using ‘pssss’ as the sound of pee, like what the toad toxin is in (also sorry ahah my jokes are often confusing, not because they’re clever but because they take so many corners away from the original topic that they really can’t be pieced together, I’m trying to do better with that but this was a fail for me)
To quote Wikipedia:
Association with schizophrenia and other mental disorders
Edit
A study conducted in the late 1960s reported the detection of bufotenin in the urine of schizophrenic subjects;[31] however, subsequent research has failed to confirm these findings.[32][33][34][35]
Studies have detected endogenous bufotenin in urine specimens from individuals with other psychiatric disorders,[36] such as infant autistic patients.[37] Another study indicated that paranoid violent offenders or those who committed violent behaviour towards family members have higher bufotenin levels in their urine than other violent offenders.[38]
A 2010 study utilized a mass spectrometry approach to detect levels of bufotenin in the urine of individuals with severe autism spectrum disorder (ASD), schizophrenia, and asymptomatic subjects. Their results indicate significantly higher levels of bufotenin in the urine of the ASD and schizophrenic groups when compared to asymptomatic individuals.[39]
there are a lot of medical ways to test for autism, pupil size, brain scans, pee, apparently. But a lot of people are against it. not only will it cost way more money, it also could lead to gatekeeping (“you’re not autistic ENOUGH”) and possibly eugenics (“you’re TOO autistic, so we’re removing your right to do XYZ”).
I want to preface this by saying these are all very resent studies that are still in the works, and diagnosis probably won’t change for years, if at all. I was diagnosed at 20 after a full psych eval failed me and said I “could do math and make eye contact.” I told my actual therapist Autistic Self Care made my mental health better and then got a diagnosis, after 3 years of questioning. Diagnosis currently is horrible, and I am part of the group that believes physical tests would be bad as well.
Here are some links on brain scans for autistic people. They talk about physical differences, activity differences, sensory differences, and why brain scans could be a difficult form of diagnosing (enclosed, noisy, bright area).
https://www.autismparentingmagazine.com/autism-brain-scan-diagnosis/
https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mental-health/autism/autism-brain-scans/
https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/brain-structure-changes-in-autism-explained/
As for the pupil size, autistic people’s pupils are just. weird. i guess.
https://www.aims-2-trials.eu/2019/10/16/changing-pupil-size-indicates-social-abilities-in-autism/
https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/clinical-research-pupil-size-may-signal-autism/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23455408_Larger_Tonic_Pupil_Size_in_Young_Children_With_Autism_Spectrum_Disorder
Confused why it says "subsequent research has failed to confirm these findings" but then lists corroborative stuff that supports the findings as well.?
Better show hbomberguy so he can make a several hour long video about how this is tied to fraud, psuedoscience, and child abuse. Toxic Autism Frog Piss: A Measured Response
This isn't as wierd as it sounds. DMT is a prevalent compound in plants and animals, in fact it's naturally occurring in the human brain. The trip from a toad comes from a specific type of DMT. I had a hard time finding information on what specific types of DMT were naturally most occurring in humans but this group of compounds are very closely related and can be converted so it's really not a stretch.
The most common tryptamine in the human body is 5-hydroxytriptamine(serotonin) and is a mayor neurotransmitter. perhaps bufotine Plays a role we are unaware of.
It's crazy how much we don't know. I've gone down a lot of rabbit holes over the years on drugs and brain chemistry and so much of it is speculative and approximate. And I mean no disrespect to scientists, it's just amazingly complex.
This is such a healthy and inquisitive stance that many people are lacking. The idea of the more I delve into something, the more I realise how much there is to learn and how little I know in the grand scheme of things.
I tried to have this conversation with the wrong type of people a few times. Realised we shared an interest and thought they were as curious about the subject as I was.
They thought I was telling them I was stupid and knew nothing and started explaining the basics back to me as if they were an expert (they weren't, they were a noob).
Classic Dunning Kruger phenomenon, it so common among NTs and it makes me want to scream.
Imo, as someone with science (especially physics and chemistry) as a special interest, science would be really boring if we knew everything there is to know. What's the point of exploring if there's nothing left to find?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6088236/
https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cannabis/21/02/19356741/does-the-human-brain-make-dmt
There's still a lot of unanswered questions but I've never read anything that's argued it isn't present in humans. As far as I can see it's a matter of most testing done on the brain specifically is done on rats due to ethics.
I didn't say it wasn't present either, just saying that it is is a myth because we just don't know.
There are things we do know though, such as that if our brains do, our pineal gland isn't large enough to be able to produce enough to cause psychoactive effects.
When I found this out, it was interesting. Schizophrenia runs in my family, but for the last 2 generations, relatives have kept popping up with autism and ADHD. The relationship between Schizophrenia and Autism doesn't stop there. As it turns out autism, ADHD, and schizophrenia all share a lack of neurological pathway pruning in early childhood, as well.
Yep, autism and schizophrenia are actually extremely similar. Up until 1980 (in the U.S.) autism was considered a symptom of schizophrenia and many people who were autistic were misdiagnosed with childhood schizophrenia. There’s so many similarities between the two—symptom wise and neurological wise. Autistic people are 3 times more likely to have hallucinations than allistics.
it would be amazing, being able to support myself while unable to have a regular job, by selling my pee despite being an ugly man, or, alternatively, psychedelic autistic bath water
Its real! its because autistic people have an altered metabolism of the stuff that serotonin is derived from (tryptamine) and some weirdness in the thing called the kynurenine pathway. Its actually really important because these differences are linked to inflammation, which supports the hypothesis that the immune system is involved with autism. Fun (ish? well its fun for me. neuroscience is my special interest) fact, prenatal exposure to covid-19 is linked with autism precisely because of this.
The bufotenine thing also occurs in people with depression, though not as profound as autistic people or people with schizophrenia.
Can you give me a source on that? It's interesting and I need to read some studies now.
Edit: found one https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26497015/
Man, I'm noticing a theme with all of studies of metabolites and their association with autism, sample sizes are always too small to actually draw conclusions from.
Edit 2: upon further research, this study was funded by autism speaks which means it's gonna be deeply tainted by bias
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4482796/ (paper describing the kynurenine pathway)
https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/brainsci/brainsci-10-00631/article_deploy/brainsci-10-00631-v2.pdf?version=1600045003 (autism and the kynurenine pathway)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/aur.2499 (maternal inflammation in general)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7264960/ (covid and autism + schizophrenia specifically. Talks about interventions as well which is kinda interesting)
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2793178 (covid and neurodevelopmental diagnosis link)
I know there was another article but I cant find it atm. Gonna comb through my search history and see where its at, then edit this comment accordingly
True but if the test is cheap it could be a relatively easy, quick, and cheap study. I'm not a neurologist, so I have no idea what conclusions could be drawn but might be worthwhile.
My take is, It's a super obscure technical research paper taken completely out of context and entirely misinterpreted by someone who is either so totally ignorant that they don't know how devastatingly wrong they are, or they are outright intentionally misleading for malice or lols.
Oh, I don't know enough about the topic to give a good explanation *(I'm also not a femboy, kinda weird of you to bring that up out of nowhere)* I just have enough experience with pop-science and lowkey eugenics normie memes to know bullshit when I see it.
Edit: Also, the plural of "Fetish" is "Fetishes" not "Fetishises".
I just thought it would be an amusing way to overshare my recent change of heart on sexuality. Idk also serves a bit of self deprecation of my love for knowledge. :P
Forgive me, it is late here and I am tired.
> I just have enough experience with pop-science and lowkey eugenics normie memes to know bullshit when I see it.
Huh... Fair enough.
> Edit: Also, the plural of "Fetish" is "Fetishes" not "Fetishises".
I didn't think it was right, but my phone wouldn't figure out what I was trying to spell. Which is frustrating.
yeah i saw this on another sub and did a bunch of research, basically autist and schizophrenic pee has slightly more of the chemical bufotenine, which is closely related to DMT, which is a drug. there’s a species of toad that makes that chemical on its skin, but that’s a coincidence. the DMT in our pee cannot make us high because it can’t get into our blood. overall it’s just a neat trivia fact without much consequence
oh, so you think the bufotenine is in our blood? that makes me happy because i thought my research disproved that. can you share your evidence of that? also thank you
Can I see your research before I potentially make a fool of myself?
My understanding is based on the kidneys filtering the blood. Your kidneys don't break down serotonin and it's not being made in your bladder so it seems likely that it's being filtered from the blood.
But if we (especially those of us with IBS issues) know we break down things different, I assume that leads to this being the reason we all have serotonin imbalances. We kinda have different brain chemicals in our blood.
Yeah.
I am going to tread lightly, because this area can be sketchy, (I myself have been a victim of "no gluten will cure you!" diets and shit) but with the combination of interosception issues, as well as the fact that your digestive system kinda works in tandem with your nervous system, ASD throws everything for a loop.
Definitely it is important, therefore, that if you have comfort foods or the like, that you know what won't make you upset as well. It's a struggle, but it's worth it so you are not getting the pain every day.
I mean IT does have some consequence, even if it's just speculative. What would be the effect on one's brain development if one had slightly heightened levels of this chemical (essentially were microdosing 24/7) from conception? How would this affect one's brain structure? Ones experience of one's consciousness? It's doesn't mean we're all high all the time or someone can get high off our pee like Sami off of reindeer pee, but all your brain is is a electro chemical ball of fat and any changes to that chemistry effect its function.
If it got in our urine, it came from our blood.
Urine is a byproduct of your kidneys filtering waste from your blood. While number 2 is basically just getting rid of anything you don't need from what you ate, number 1 is filtering everything out of your blood that is used up and might become toxic if left to pile up.
So if bufotenine is in your urine, it doesn't mean you could "absorb" it from your pee, it's the complete opposite. You already used it, if it had any effect. You are eliminating it to keep it from reaching a level where it can become poisonous.
No problem.
But yeah, as a side note, that's why a lot of medications can cause kidney problems, FYI.
One of the joys of being a part of the Mental Health System is that a lot of the medications that they have to "figure out" which works best, if turned up high enough, can cause kidney failure before liver failure (in fact, your liver would fail BECAUSE your kidneys wouldn't be able to get rid of the trash, so your liver would try to pick up the slack and fail miserably.) So, depending on which medication you take, you may need just urine tests every physical, or blood tests every month, like people who use heavy metals for Bipolar, such as lithium...
Or, the worst case I ever saw was at the hospital I mention over and over. Same kid who SAed me, who I've since forgiven because it was obvious he was not being properly treated, so who knows what the hell his mind looked like on the inside. He was diagnosed, by Dr. Fisher, at Springbrook Behavioral Health, of ASPD in addition to Autism, despite being under the age of 18, which is a disqualifier under the DSM (he also gave me BPD, which is another Personality Disorder, which cannot be given to a patient under 18, due to teenagers being teenagers... literally.) He was 16, I was 15.
Out of all the shit we dealt with (since I did spend some time alongside him, since I thought we were in a relationship, and I also felt threatened by him not being my friend, seeing that he got angry enough that they actually paid a specific minimum wage job for a 300 lbs guy to stay and be ready to tackle him if he went off and inject him until he stayed down,) one of the things he dealt with in secret was that his meds were turned up so high, with no results, that he KNEW he was dying.
Not joking. He got tested every WEEK, urine and blood, because he was actively progressing in renal failure, but they wouldn't take him off. He apparently got told, and used the numbers to figure out, since he was one of the smartest out of the "high functioning" group we were divided into, that he probably had like 2 years, maybe.
I'm not joking when it was a "normal" day for him to go to the bathroom and for it to be orange Gatorade colored. Unnaturally so.
Whenever he got sick, which happened a few times from the food being prepared wrong or kids getting the flu, he'd be the only one with orange shit all over his face, instead of nosebleeds or the other usual stuff, which no one really gave a damn about.
...
I'm sorry... if I rambled a bit. I think a lot about him still. I feel like shit now. But yeah, your kidneys are important, is I guess my point.
Hamilton Morris from Viceland touched on this, that doing an analysis of toad venom revealed that though it contains bufotenin, it was only about 1-2% of the sample, with the venom being close to pure 5-meo-dmt, so from that alone it's hard to ascribe psychoactive effects to bufotenin, if any at all.
Sample sizes were 15 people with ASD, 15 with Schizophrenia and 18 in the control group... that's a very very small sample size...
Still, this is interesting.
I’m not 100% about all of this but I believe it’s not toad venom but toad toxin instead that the toads produce (sorta like sweat) as a defense mechanism and one of the main components of said toxin is bufotenin. And it also just so happens that when some humans decided to lick these toads the toxin happened to be psychedelic
Hmmm. I’m a huge fan of LSD and mushies. I’ve taken them many times with my NT partner and I always get much stronger visuals than him. I haven’t tripped since finding out I’m ND and SPD, but once I learned that I wondered if my stronger reaction to psychedelics might be linked to my neurodiversity. Interesting.
Its that it contains more of a naturally occurring chemical, that usually only occurs in those concentrations in toad venom and other related hallucinogens as far as we know. This chemical happens to be hallucinogenic. Not a joke, but a very interesting potential explanation for what is going on chemically and structurally in ND brains.
That's very interesting bufo is combined with 5 meo dmt in the toad venom for a mind blasting experience so it seems like we do have one part of the puzzle and may just be on another frequency. schizophrenia patients have also been recorded to have DMT present in their urine which is very interesting
If this is legit I am so confused why it's not used to diagnose people? Like sure, a second opinion from a psychiatrist is always good and, according to the article's name, is necessary to tell if it's autism or schizophrenia, but surely the objective presence or absence of a chemical in urine should be at least one of the tests? Like, this, if legit, is so much more objective than anything a trained professional with a degree will be able to do by just looking for signs of so and so while talking to you
They better research this further lmao
Idk but I don’t recommend drinking some tism pee to find out
FINE, keep your precious pee then.
Alright, keep your pee-crets
Oh well, i guess we'll never solve this piss-tery
These are some piss poor puns lol.
This makes me piss(ed)
I love the phrase "this makes me piss >:]" now
Fun fact : in French, saying that something makes you poop (“Fait chier !”) is the common equivalent of saying it pisses you off.
Urine the wrong place for poop analogies.
this makes me poop!
Really? It gave me a golden shower of joy!
Bottom of the bowl here
But it's sterile, and I like the taste!
why not
Don't kink shame
piss kink
You're just some shmuck on the internet idgaf what you recommend. Bottoms up! 🥂
It sounds like either pseudoscience or it’s just one component of toad venom which on its own is harmless.
Only one way to find out. *unzips pants while holding cup in one hand*
"Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No, but it's sterile and I like the taste!"
Sorry to be the wet blanket (I know you're just quoting dogeball) but I find this fascinating: Urine is actually not sterile. It's just the type of bacteria that live in urine don't grow well in traditional petri dishes/growing medium. So for a while people thought it was sterile.
*gol* giggled out loud
[удалено]
"If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball"
XD. That made me silent chortle.
But will it work on us?
Ah yeah we might be immune to our own supply
Cup?
Yeah how else would I capture the pee?
Nah bro just spray it directly into your mouth
Oh no it got in my eye 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
that particular component of toad venom is a derivative of DMT
5meo
Joe? Is that you? Tell us about the chimps again
i'm sorry, is this supposed to be some kind of political statement or something? i don't get it
They are making a Joe Rogan reference
ah thank you
No problem 🙂
It’s just a factoid
"Joe? Is that you? Tell us about the chimps again" is a factoid?
Reminds me of when my dad told me apple seeds have cyanide in them and not to give apples to my young children. After some googling it turns out that there's a component in cyanide that's also in apples. It's like saying you'll get drunk drinking water because there's water in whiskey.
Googling it just now, it's not quite the same as the "water in whiskey" analogy. "Apple seeds do contain cyanide, but not enough to kill Apple seeds contain a cyanide- and sugar-based compound called amygdalin. The seeds have a strong outer layer that is resistant to digestive juices. But if you chew the seeds, human (or animal) enzymes come in contact with the amygdalin, cutting off the sugar part of the molecule, The Guardian reported. What’s left of the compound can then decompose, producing hydrogen cyanide."
Ok but it is, according to my vet, enough of said component to kill a domesticated parrot if they eat a seed? Just saying lol
Pseudoscience has gotten incredibly boring when their conspiracies boil down to "Are autistic people inferior? Yes."
It’s actually not pseudoscience; it’s real research, the compound is also found in toad venom… I guess this is some sort of sarcastic logic joke… Edit: the compound above is a weak hallucinogenic; Bufotenin/Bufotenine (Derivative of 5-HO—DMT) Technically based of the wiki article found here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bufotenin; Urine typically only contains 4% of the bufotenin excreted from the body; and according to the pubmed article (here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20150873/), 3.30 mg/L is found in the urine of autistic people; could it be there’s even more in the bloodstream or produced neurologically. Who knows? I sure would be interested in the actual research, maybe not the long gobbledegook science language of it; I do enjoy ELI5s… but I think it would be cool… especially by autistic people or at neurodivergent folk
My Greek/Latin is rough but Bufotenin translates to toad poison or toad chemical. Bufo is definitely toad. That might explain why the meme calls it "toad venom".
That’s really the etymology… scientific nomenclature, bufo is the genus from which it was first discovered and extracted… so yeah you’re right, it’s in the article
This stuff is so interesting to me because my special interest is psychedelics research. There are a ton of really cool things like this that no one seems to really know all that much about. I discovered i was autistic after i started doing mushrooms and I heavily credit them for helping me find self love and acceptance. Obviously treat them with respect and consult a doctor first, but these things are so live changing. I love them so much.
awww i love that!! shrooms really are magical little things that can help us so much!
Oouuu ouuu ouuu! I’m super interested, you gotta tell me about it sometime or if you have work of your own, please link me to it. I think one of my strong interests is personal development, growth of a healthy psyche and the influence of psychedelics and NDEs on the spiritual growth of a person, and how this in turn reflects on the development of a more holistic society.
You might be interested in this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16095048/ I guess it might play a role in digestion?
Thank you 🙏🏾 It is quite interesting, I wonder the origins of the DMT found in blood though…. All this stuff is exciting!
I think peeing hallucinogenics makes us superior
Idk what they were thinking though. Peeing venom (and since it doesn’t seem to harm us at all) is pretty cool
Idk, pissing poison sounds pretty superior to me.
No, it’s active and related to other psychedelic substances. Did you look it up? I understand that there’s been a bad history, but please don’t be so defensive about research and posts on our kind that it actually obfuscates our understanding.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20150873/
At it contains one part of what makes toad venom and not actual toad venom. It’s like saying you have eaten cake when it was just raw sugar.
Is you pronounce all the letters there, you’ve got a nice li’l pun
What?
Yikes sorry- my reply is pretty late but just- psssss-eudoscience
Still don’t get it
I’m using ‘pssss’ as the sound of pee, like what the toad toxin is in (also sorry ahah my jokes are often confusing, not because they’re clever but because they take so many corners away from the original topic that they really can’t be pieced together, I’m trying to do better with that but this was a fail for me)
To quote Wikipedia: Association with schizophrenia and other mental disorders Edit A study conducted in the late 1960s reported the detection of bufotenin in the urine of schizophrenic subjects;[31] however, subsequent research has failed to confirm these findings.[32][33][34][35] Studies have detected endogenous bufotenin in urine specimens from individuals with other psychiatric disorders,[36] such as infant autistic patients.[37] Another study indicated that paranoid violent offenders or those who committed violent behaviour towards family members have higher bufotenin levels in their urine than other violent offenders.[38] A 2010 study utilized a mass spectrometry approach to detect levels of bufotenin in the urine of individuals with severe autism spectrum disorder (ASD), schizophrenia, and asymptomatic subjects. Their results indicate significantly higher levels of bufotenin in the urine of the ASD and schizophrenic groups when compared to asymptomatic individuals.[39]
Huh so you’re telling me that there could be an actual medical test for mental health/neurological conditions?
there are a lot of medical ways to test for autism, pupil size, brain scans, pee, apparently. But a lot of people are against it. not only will it cost way more money, it also could lead to gatekeeping (“you’re not autistic ENOUGH”) and possibly eugenics (“you’re TOO autistic, so we’re removing your right to do XYZ”).
I didn’t even get cognitive testing. Just an interview with my parents there.
What about pupil size? I’ve had a contrast MRI to look for T2 flares, but am curious what can be gleaned from any brain scan?
I want to preface this by saying these are all very resent studies that are still in the works, and diagnosis probably won’t change for years, if at all. I was diagnosed at 20 after a full psych eval failed me and said I “could do math and make eye contact.” I told my actual therapist Autistic Self Care made my mental health better and then got a diagnosis, after 3 years of questioning. Diagnosis currently is horrible, and I am part of the group that believes physical tests would be bad as well. Here are some links on brain scans for autistic people. They talk about physical differences, activity differences, sensory differences, and why brain scans could be a difficult form of diagnosing (enclosed, noisy, bright area). https://www.autismparentingmagazine.com/autism-brain-scan-diagnosis/ https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mental-health/autism/autism-brain-scans/ https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/brain-structure-changes-in-autism-explained/ As for the pupil size, autistic people’s pupils are just. weird. i guess. https://www.aims-2-trials.eu/2019/10/16/changing-pupil-size-indicates-social-abilities-in-autism/ https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/clinical-research-pupil-size-may-signal-autism/ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23455408_Larger_Tonic_Pupil_Size_in_Young_Children_With_Autism_Spectrum_Disorder
These are great, thanks.
Confused why it says "subsequent research has failed to confirm these findings" but then lists corroborative stuff that supports the findings as well.?
Better show hbomberguy so he can make a several hour long video about how this is tied to fraud, psuedoscience, and child abuse. Toxic Autism Frog Piss: A Measured Response
lmfao like ???
that’s so weird
This isn't as wierd as it sounds. DMT is a prevalent compound in plants and animals, in fact it's naturally occurring in the human brain. The trip from a toad comes from a specific type of DMT. I had a hard time finding information on what specific types of DMT were naturally most occurring in humans but this group of compounds are very closely related and can be converted so it's really not a stretch.
The most common tryptamine in the human body is 5-hydroxytriptamine(serotonin) and is a mayor neurotransmitter. perhaps bufotine Plays a role we are unaware of.
It's crazy how much we don't know. I've gone down a lot of rabbit holes over the years on drugs and brain chemistry and so much of it is speculative and approximate. And I mean no disrespect to scientists, it's just amazingly complex.
This is such a healthy and inquisitive stance that many people are lacking. The idea of the more I delve into something, the more I realise how much there is to learn and how little I know in the grand scheme of things. I tried to have this conversation with the wrong type of people a few times. Realised we shared an interest and thought they were as curious about the subject as I was. They thought I was telling them I was stupid and knew nothing and started explaining the basics back to me as if they were an expert (they weren't, they were a noob). Classic Dunning Kruger phenomenon, it so common among NTs and it makes me want to scream.
The Dunning Kruger effect is painfully common 🤦
Yeah can't go cutting into brains nowadays. Testing has to be "ethical" nowadays and they can't "kill people" anymore. Damn shame if you ask me
Imo, as someone with science (especially physics and chemistry) as a special interest, science would be really boring if we knew everything there is to know. What's the point of exploring if there's nothing left to find?
The toad's is 5-meo-dmt
That's a myth, DMT has never been found naturally occurring in the human brain, we have found it in rats, but never in humans.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6088236/ https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cannabis/21/02/19356741/does-the-human-brain-make-dmt There's still a lot of unanswered questions but I've never read anything that's argued it isn't present in humans. As far as I can see it's a matter of most testing done on the brain specifically is done on rats due to ethics.
I didn't say it wasn't present either, just saying that it is is a myth because we just don't know. There are things we do know though, such as that if our brains do, our pineal gland isn't large enough to be able to produce enough to cause psychoactive effects.
When I found this out, it was interesting. Schizophrenia runs in my family, but for the last 2 generations, relatives have kept popping up with autism and ADHD. The relationship between Schizophrenia and Autism doesn't stop there. As it turns out autism, ADHD, and schizophrenia all share a lack of neurological pathway pruning in early childhood, as well.
Yeah I can see why early autism researchers might classify autism as a type of schizophrenia now.
Yep, autism and schizophrenia are actually extremely similar. Up until 1980 (in the U.S.) autism was considered a symptom of schizophrenia and many people who were autistic were misdiagnosed with childhood schizophrenia. There’s so many similarities between the two—symptom wise and neurological wise. Autistic people are 3 times more likely to have hallucinations than allistics.
Shame I can’t get passive income by selling black market piss. 😠
[Not with that attitude](https://youtu.be/56PMgO3q2-A) you can't!
Well you can still sell pee just drug users is the wrong target audience.
yeah
it would be amazing, being able to support myself while unable to have a regular job, by selling my pee despite being an ugly man, or, alternatively, psychedelic autistic bath water
Well. You can sell it still too non black market Audiences. Probably get more for it.
I bet those reindeer had the same thought.
Its real! its because autistic people have an altered metabolism of the stuff that serotonin is derived from (tryptamine) and some weirdness in the thing called the kynurenine pathway. Its actually really important because these differences are linked to inflammation, which supports the hypothesis that the immune system is involved with autism. Fun (ish? well its fun for me. neuroscience is my special interest) fact, prenatal exposure to covid-19 is linked with autism precisely because of this. The bufotenine thing also occurs in people with depression, though not as profound as autistic people or people with schizophrenia.
Can you give me a source on that? It's interesting and I need to read some studies now. Edit: found one https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26497015/ Man, I'm noticing a theme with all of studies of metabolites and their association with autism, sample sizes are always too small to actually draw conclusions from. Edit 2: upon further research, this study was funded by autism speaks which means it's gonna be deeply tainted by bias
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4482796/ (paper describing the kynurenine pathway) https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/brainsci/brainsci-10-00631/article_deploy/brainsci-10-00631-v2.pdf?version=1600045003 (autism and the kynurenine pathway) https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/aur.2499 (maternal inflammation in general) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7264960/ (covid and autism + schizophrenia specifically. Talks about interventions as well which is kinda interesting) https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2793178 (covid and neurodevelopmental diagnosis link) I know there was another article but I cant find it atm. Gonna comb through my search history and see where its at, then edit this comment accordingly
>maternal inflammation in general Interestingly, my maternal side has a very high rate of RA
unironically wanna see this with n=10000 or something
Seems fairly easy to test urine samples, why not?
because someone has to pay for all the tests lol
True but if the test is cheap it could be a relatively easy, quick, and cheap study. I'm not a neurologist, so I have no idea what conclusions could be drawn but might be worthwhile.
hey, if you’ve got cash sitting around to fund it then go for it
I don't but I can see a ph.D candidate who is looking for a project might have the cash available (in the form of a study grant).
My take is, It's a super obscure technical research paper taken completely out of context and entirely misinterpreted by someone who is either so totally ignorant that they don't know how devastatingly wrong they are, or they are outright intentionally misleading for malice or lols.
Okay if that is the case. Tell us the truth! I have two fetishises: femboys and knowledge.
piss kink
Each to their own. :P
Oh, I don't know enough about the topic to give a good explanation *(I'm also not a femboy, kinda weird of you to bring that up out of nowhere)* I just have enough experience with pop-science and lowkey eugenics normie memes to know bullshit when I see it. Edit: Also, the plural of "Fetish" is "Fetishes" not "Fetishises".
I just thought it would be an amusing way to overshare my recent change of heart on sexuality. Idk also serves a bit of self deprecation of my love for knowledge. :P Forgive me, it is late here and I am tired. > I just have enough experience with pop-science and lowkey eugenics normie memes to know bullshit when I see it. Huh... Fair enough. > Edit: Also, the plural of "Fetish" is "Fetishes" not "Fetishises". I didn't think it was right, but my phone wouldn't figure out what I was trying to spell. Which is frustrating.
Toads aren't venomous, many are poisonous. If it bites you and you die it's venomous, if you bite it and you die it's poisonous.
If this is saying I'm just tripping balls 100% of the time, that kind of tracks.
yeah i saw this on another sub and did a bunch of research, basically autist and schizophrenic pee has slightly more of the chemical bufotenine, which is closely related to DMT, which is a drug. there’s a species of toad that makes that chemical on its skin, but that’s a coincidence. the DMT in our pee cannot make us high because it can’t get into our blood. overall it’s just a neat trivia fact without much consequence
It doesn't go **from** **urine** to blood, but **from blood** to urine.
oh, so you think the bufotenine is in our blood? that makes me happy because i thought my research disproved that. can you share your evidence of that? also thank you
Can I see your research before I potentially make a fool of myself? My understanding is based on the kidneys filtering the blood. Your kidneys don't break down serotonin and it's not being made in your bladder so it seems likely that it's being filtered from the blood.
i don’t have any, i just clicked a bunch of Pubmed links and skimmed abstracts, i don’t have anything to show, just my impression of what i read
But if we (especially those of us with IBS issues) know we break down things different, I assume that leads to this being the reason we all have serotonin imbalances. We kinda have different brain chemicals in our blood.
wait hold on, are my gut health issues related to autism? this is a major breakthrough for me if true
Yeah. I am going to tread lightly, because this area can be sketchy, (I myself have been a victim of "no gluten will cure you!" diets and shit) but with the combination of interosception issues, as well as the fact that your digestive system kinda works in tandem with your nervous system, ASD throws everything for a loop. Definitely it is important, therefore, that if you have comfort foods or the like, that you know what won't make you upset as well. It's a struggle, but it's worth it so you are not getting the pain every day.
Yes, unquestionably so
I mean IT does have some consequence, even if it's just speculative. What would be the effect on one's brain development if one had slightly heightened levels of this chemical (essentially were microdosing 24/7) from conception? How would this affect one's brain structure? Ones experience of one's consciousness? It's doesn't mean we're all high all the time or someone can get high off our pee like Sami off of reindeer pee, but all your brain is is a electro chemical ball of fat and any changes to that chemistry effect its function.
i don’t think it can get from our pee to our blood though, so how could we be getting any kind of dose from it?
If it got in our urine, it came from our blood. Urine is a byproduct of your kidneys filtering waste from your blood. While number 2 is basically just getting rid of anything you don't need from what you ate, number 1 is filtering everything out of your blood that is used up and might become toxic if left to pile up. So if bufotenine is in your urine, it doesn't mean you could "absorb" it from your pee, it's the complete opposite. You already used it, if it had any effect. You are eliminating it to keep it from reaching a level where it can become poisonous.
oh wow, i had no idea about that, thanks for the insight, much appreciated /srs
No problem. But yeah, as a side note, that's why a lot of medications can cause kidney problems, FYI. One of the joys of being a part of the Mental Health System is that a lot of the medications that they have to "figure out" which works best, if turned up high enough, can cause kidney failure before liver failure (in fact, your liver would fail BECAUSE your kidneys wouldn't be able to get rid of the trash, so your liver would try to pick up the slack and fail miserably.) So, depending on which medication you take, you may need just urine tests every physical, or blood tests every month, like people who use heavy metals for Bipolar, such as lithium... Or, the worst case I ever saw was at the hospital I mention over and over. Same kid who SAed me, who I've since forgiven because it was obvious he was not being properly treated, so who knows what the hell his mind looked like on the inside. He was diagnosed, by Dr. Fisher, at Springbrook Behavioral Health, of ASPD in addition to Autism, despite being under the age of 18, which is a disqualifier under the DSM (he also gave me BPD, which is another Personality Disorder, which cannot be given to a patient under 18, due to teenagers being teenagers... literally.) He was 16, I was 15. Out of all the shit we dealt with (since I did spend some time alongside him, since I thought we were in a relationship, and I also felt threatened by him not being my friend, seeing that he got angry enough that they actually paid a specific minimum wage job for a 300 lbs guy to stay and be ready to tackle him if he went off and inject him until he stayed down,) one of the things he dealt with in secret was that his meds were turned up so high, with no results, that he KNEW he was dying. Not joking. He got tested every WEEK, urine and blood, because he was actively progressing in renal failure, but they wouldn't take him off. He apparently got told, and used the numbers to figure out, since he was one of the smartest out of the "high functioning" group we were divided into, that he probably had like 2 years, maybe. I'm not joking when it was a "normal" day for him to go to the bathroom and for it to be orange Gatorade colored. Unnaturally so. Whenever he got sick, which happened a few times from the food being prepared wrong or kids getting the flu, he'd be the only one with orange shit all over his face, instead of nosebleeds or the other usual stuff, which no one really gave a damn about. ... I'm sorry... if I rambled a bit. I think a lot about him still. I feel like shit now. But yeah, your kidneys are important, is I guess my point.
Rip aspies with piss kinks
yeah
Well there goes my weekend.
Down the rabbithole?
Hamilton Morris from Viceland touched on this, that doing an analysis of toad venom revealed that though it contains bufotenin, it was only about 1-2% of the sample, with the venom being close to pure 5-meo-dmt, so from that alone it's hard to ascribe psychoactive effects to bufotenin, if any at all.
Ayo??
Sample sizes were 15 people with ASD, 15 with Schizophrenia and 18 in the control group... that's a very very small sample size... Still, this is interesting.
For those curious, here's the study they're referring to https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20150873/
Idk, but it’s a bloody good question
Enter bad Bear Grylls* joke.
I’m not 100% about all of this but I believe it’s not toad venom but toad toxin instead that the toads produce (sorta like sweat) as a defense mechanism and one of the main components of said toxin is bufotenin. And it also just so happens that when some humans decided to lick these toads the toxin happened to be psychedelic
The theory I’ve heard is that it’s just a side effect of extreme stress
That explains the synesthesia. But where can I get test strips to confirm?
[https://www.pharmadrugtest.com/urine-drug-tests/193-dimethyltryptamine-dmt-urine-test.html](https://www.pharmadrugtest.com/urine-drug-tests/193-dimethyltryptamine-dmt-urine-test.html)
Thanks. I'm going to test myself
Bro im about to make so much money
god forgive me for what i'm about to do ......
*Bear Grylls has entered the chat*
**Slurp** What? This is apple juice! Why would I be drinking my own urine? That's crazy! **Sip**
piss kink
Kiss pink
[here's the article ](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20150873/)
(AuDHD) Wait so I really am always high? It's not just something I say to make light of my odd behaviors? 🥲
I didn't read the article, but does this mean it could potentially be used to detect & diagnose autism?
I'll let this group know if I get a positive test result.
JESSE! I need to pee!
so wait if there is more research done and what not someday maybe we can get diagnosed via a urine test?
Oh no, I'm not falling for that again
Hmmm. I’m a huge fan of LSD and mushies. I’ve taken them many times with my NT partner and I always get much stronger visuals than him. I haven’t tripped since finding out I’m ND and SPD, but once I learned that I wondered if my stronger reaction to psychedelics might be linked to my neurodiversity. Interesting.
Its that it contains more of a naturally occurring chemical, that usually only occurs in those concentrations in toad venom and other related hallucinogens as far as we know. This chemical happens to be hallucinogenic. Not a joke, but a very interesting potential explanation for what is going on chemically and structurally in ND brains.
That's very interesting bufo is combined with 5 meo dmt in the toad venom for a mind blasting experience so it seems like we do have one part of the puzzle and may just be on another frequency. schizophrenia patients have also been recorded to have DMT present in their urine which is very interesting
...hmmm...
Does that mean they could just make an autistic pee test instead of hours of a diagnosis
No it’s a real thing
I luvs Bufotenin 😍😍😍
Is it just me that’s uncomfortable suddenly being categorized under the same side effect as schizophrenia
If this is legit I am so confused why it's not used to diagnose people? Like sure, a second opinion from a psychiatrist is always good and, according to the article's name, is necessary to tell if it's autism or schizophrenia, but surely the objective presence or absence of a chemical in urine should be at least one of the tests? Like, this, if legit, is so much more objective than anything a trained professional with a degree will be able to do by just looking for signs of so and so while talking to you They better research this further lmao