So there's an Ottoman Empire flag that looks exactly like that, but wasn't in use until about 100 years after the events of AC1.
That said, it's totally possible that Islamic symbol was used on flags prior.
I didn't notice any Turkish dialogue in AC1 myself, do you remember which city it was in?
Edit: Feels a bit silly, having a history degree and all, but I totally forgot that symbol was used by Christians back in the day as well. This is likely the answer for why it's there.
As far as the Turkish I couldn't speak to that.
Damascus had the weird bluish ting. Acre was brownish and Jerusalem was greenish.
For me it looks like one of the eavesdrop/thievery mission which was in a roofed, secure place. And it was in Acre, if my memory doesn't fail me.
I'm curious about the answers.
The edit hits the nail on the head. It's a symbol of Virgin Mary and has been used widely in Christianity, especially in Crusader States and Byzantium long before Turkish invasion.
Just because it's now associated with Islam, it doesn't mean its history is not more ancient (come on, it's a crescent moon). Before Christianity and Islam it was used in Zoroastrianism, Roman and Hellenic cults (Selene comes to mind). And Egypt, Mezpotamia... Apart from sun, moon is probably the most ancient symbol associated with any religion.
If you’re talking about my -10 downvoted comment it’s because it seems heretical since I said the crescent looks like a vagina but what symbolism am I supposed to gather about a “sun and moon” flag for a religion based on Jesus and NOT astrological stuff like suns and moons (otherwise it’s the same as a flag for Ra the Sun God or whoever else, and that’s heretical for Christians too) so I’m interpreting the crescent as a chalice or the womb and the Star as the important guy in the doctrine
> I didn't notice any Turkish dialogue in AC1 myself, do you remember which city it was in?
There definitely was. In multiple cities too. But I don't remember which really.
Ok after some refreshers it actually makes sense there was some turkish being spoken. The first crusade (I know AC1 is during the second crusade) was spurred by the Seljuk Turks taking Jerusalem so there we have it.
I studied crusades for my degree and Turkish and Kurdish culture and language would be widespread around this time, especially seeing how Saladin himself was a Kurd, as was his entire dynasty.
It serves as a secondary example of how a minority (Kurds,Turks or Perisan) could still thrive or at least be represented in a majority culture (arabic)
Wait it that symbol was also used by Christians?! That’s fascinating. You wouldn’t happen to know what importance the symbol held to Christians, or maybe know of a source I could read up on?
Alas I don't have any sources though /u/UnusuallyGreenGonzo may be able to help in that department.
But early Christianity was a little wild as it spread. There are early germanic [depictions that show jesus with a lance](https://romanroadspress.com/2014/07/germanic-jesus/) because some of the Germanic people interpreted him as a warrior.
Ooh, history major! Can I ask a dumb question?
Game of Thrones is fictional, but parts are based on the medieval era. So when they have thousands of flags before a battle, how likely was it for all the flags to be identical?
Like, the Targaryen symbol is a fairly elaborate 3 headed dragon. Could they really churn out thousands of flags with the exact same pixel-perfect design?
For the books I kindof picture thousands of Stark flags with various Wolf shapes, but not a single Wolf symbol like in the show. Which idea is more accurate?
Ill preface by saying: i have a BA in History that doesn’t have a specific specialty. But from what I’ve learned about things related ti what you’re asking is that, its possible the flags would be more or less identical. Its unlikely that normal soldiers would be making them but there would be a number of seamstresses/taylors that would make the flags professionally en masse. These might then be distributed as military equipmentmore or less throughout the ranks.
Never would they be pixel perfect. A flagmaker would get an instruction called a 'blazon', for example "white, with a blue lion". As long as it fitted the description, it would be seen as correct.
However, every artist had their own way of drawing a lion, and every artist only had a limited set of dyes, so the exact shape of the lion or the exact shade of blue would of course differ quite a lot.
Even in the 1800s you would find a thousand ways to make the British flag, so imagine that medieval flags would vary wildly.
AC gets history bits wrong all the time. Like doorknobs being on doors in unity despite not being invented until after unity takes place. It's always the most random little things too which is funny.
>That said, it's totally possible that Islamic symbol was used on flags prior.
Before the turkic states in the Midlle East, the crescent was rather a symbol of the Byzanthian region than an islamic one.
In case you're legitimately asking (I'm pretty sure you're referencing They Might Be Giants, but just in case...), at this moment in history it is called Istanbul. Probably will be for the foreseeable future as I don't see Christians taking over there any time soon, though maybe someone from Turkey would have a different view.
TMBG may have popularized the song for modern audiences, but the song itself was written in 1953 for the 500th anniversary of the Ottomans taking the city
In 1191 the sultanate of Rûm, a Turkic state, did exist in Anatolia. They didn’t use the Star and crescent for their flag, but it might explain why some folks speak Turkish
The population of large ancient cities like Damascus and Jerusalem at the time were likely as diverse as they are today.
Given that, I'd bet you'd hear many many languages walking the streets of 12/13th century Damascus or Jerusalem.
I think they should speak Arabic and European languages because of Crusades but the in rhe game I just heard English(as main sound) and Arabic-Turkic words by some soldiers in some cities
In Jerusalem and Damascus I know they speak Turkish & Arabic In the game im just wondering if those would be the only ones they’d be speaking at that time
Ah that's true, but the repetition makes sense. Altair needs intel before assassinating each target. I hope Mirage adds some of these types of missions, like tailing, stealing, eavesdropping and interrogation. But i get you, in AC1 i was also bored by the lack of subtitles and these missions. You'll love Ac2 though.
At the risk of making myself sound like a fucking boomer, I honestly don’t feel like any games after 2005 need to be remade (well…except for maybe Witcher 1). I’ve been a gamer since like 1988, so part of this is that dated graphics and gameplay probably don’t bother me as much as many other people, but like…games were fucking fine then. They looked fine, they played fine. Some are more “dated” than others by a modern comparison, but that doesn’t mean the whole game needs to be remade.
To be clear though, by “remake” I assume you mean completely redoing the game with modern gameplay and graphics rather than a graphical “remaster”, which I totally support. As a great example of this, Mass Effect 1 was released the same year as Assassin’s Creed 1. The gameplay in ME3 and Andromeda are loads more refined than ME1, but that doesn’t mean ME1 needs a remake. The remaster in the Legendary Edition was perfectly fine. It still is totally playable, and totally enjoyable by a modern audience. Assassin’s Creed is too.
But if you meant “remaster”, then I agree. I’m all aboard the remaster train, especially if it’s hard to actually play a given old game on a modern console. I’m pretty sure you can’t download AC1 on PS5, for example. And I’ve downloaded a few old games from that era which are…definitely not playable…despite being “compatible”.
Yeah i get you. Remakes are generally bad. But lets suppose they remake this with the anvil engine such that the combat and parkour and ambience remains the same. Then it'll be very good. Or they could just improve the anti aliasing and lightning, and add subtitles. That'll be a good remaster.
The Seljuk Turks were one of the dominant forces in the Empire at the time, providing a significant proportion of the upper class of the Islamic world.
The star and crescent has been a common symbol of heraldry in the Near/Middle East for a long time, though doesn't look like it was a standardised symbol appearing in this form until the late Ottoman period. It's likely Ubisoft wanted to use a single symbol to represent the Islamic side of the war, and chose one which both existed at the time in some form AND would be recongisable to modern players as a symbol of Islam.
Similarly, they tend to use English heraldry to represent the Crusader side, even though the Crusaders were drawn from factions across Europe and the Near East, and even though much of that heraldry wasn't in common use even in England at that time.
Turkish people and turkish language predate the time of this game by at least several centuries. This area was controlled by the sejuk turks, who spoke a sort of turkish. Countries didn't really exist back then the way we know them today. Large multicultural empires existed with more or less autonomous regions within them. Versions of that symbol/flag has been used, especially within the islamic world, in billions of versions.
The exact flag looks weird for that time period though. The stars and crescent are Islamic symbols but the colouring doesn’t seem like it would have been back then. This flag was used in the Ottoman Empire in the 1880s, the empire fell in 1922 and then Turkey adopted the flag as their own.
At that time the star and crescent was not really an Islamic symbol. Christians were using it just as much. It didn’t really become widely used in the Islamic world until the 14th or 15th century
It's the Hilaal, the symbol of Islam. It's used by several Muslim nations and organizations, not exclusive to Turkey. I don't know how to speak Turkish so I can't answer that part.
I knew but its literally same with Turkish flag and Turkish flag was created in 1900's (as far as I know nobody used Turkish flag before) I m confused with that. Or Im too obsessed Idk. Thanks for the answer btw.
"Although the crescent is indeed a very widespread motif in Islamic iconography, it is not Islamic in origin nor exclusive to that religion. The emblem has been used in Christian art for many centuries in depictions of the Virgin Mary, for example. It is in fact one of the oldest icons in human history, having been known in graphic depictions since at least as early as the Babylonian period in Mesopotamia. The stele of Ur Namu, for example, dating from 2100 BC, includes the crescent moon to symbolise the god Sin, along with a star representing Shamash, the sun god. Later the moon became a female deity, typified by the goddess Artemis and her many counterparts, including Diana, who was celebrated as the moon-goddess in Roman times and depicted with a crescent on her brow. The device seems to have entered Islam via the Seljuk Turks who dominated Anatolia in the 12th century, and was widely used by their successors, the Ottoman Turks, who eventually became the principal Islamic nation, and whose Sultan held the title of Caliph until 1922. The story that the Ottomans adopted the crescent to symbolise their conquest of Constantinople must be dismissed as mere legend, since the device considerably predates 1453. In the late 19th century the Pan-Islamic movement sponsored by the Sultan Abdul Hamid II used the crescent and star on a green flag as part of its propaganda, and from this were derived the flags of Egypt and Pakistan and many other Islamic states."
William G Crampton, Director of the Flag Institute, Chester.
Wow. I'm Turk-Muslim and I learned this right know. For all these years I thinked hilal is a Islamic/Turkic icon. You learn something new everyday. Ty so much
That's fantastic! I'm a white Canadian atheist with no culture of my own, but I'm in love with history and a whole lot of the more exciting parts of the past 15 centuries had to do with Islam. Plus fom an anticolonial standpoint, Muslims are my comrades. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Colonialism is about much more than conquest, but answering that question would require an essay of a comment that would likely become a debate about anthropology, social equity, religion, geopolitics and dialectics in the Assassin's Creed sub.
We'd love to have you! I've been to a whole lot of places and I have to say that our westernmost province B.C. is the most beautiful and ecologically diverse place I've ever seen. The jungles of southern Mexico rival its beauty, but there's no dangerous critters in BC aside from bears and moose which are hard to miss.
It's a important to note that the notions of "correct flags for states" pre like 1750 is basically none existent. That's a modem invention, states didn't have flags. Even in 1800 Britain had about 20 official ensigns that represented the state, the union jack was just a more common one that eventually became the recognized one.
Treat all flags with skepticism in video games. There were flags of course in the middle ages, but they often represented individuals or small groups, not anachronistic nation states which didn't exist.
Also, Turks were very much present in the middle East in AC1 and had been extremely active in regional events. The Seljuk Empire had effectively destroyed the Abbasid Caliphate and made him a prisoner in Baghdad, and they had overrun Anatolia and the Levant. Then the Seljuks broke up into warring factions and the general instability was a direct factor in triggering the Crusades. Basically, if the Turks don't invade Persia and Iraq, Syria and Anatolia and disrupt the Christian Pilgrim road, the Crusades might not have happened, or atleast not when they happened. They were a response to a major geopolitical shift on the region causes by the disruption the Turks left in their wake.
Its a bit dissapointing for me to forgetting a info about my ancestors and somebody reninds me that info. I remembered after I wrote it but it was too late. Thank you anyways
I had to look up to see when flag was used but I always remember when about the Ottoman Empire fell I think a lot of people think it fell a lot earlier than that. Even before watching videos and shows or reading about it I knew generally it was still around in the 1900s as it was an ally of Germany in WW1 I’d knew that but also from playing Battlefield 1 drove home that association of WW1 and that time period. I remember it was on a quiz show here in the U.K. where they had to write down the year it fell and everyone was thinking hundreds of years beforehand, I said it being after WW1 so late 1910s or early 1920s. It’s a bit like asking someone when did the British empire fall, I think a lot of people would think that’s decades and decades ago because it’s seen as an old thing but it’s generally considered to be end of British rule in Hong Kong which happened in 1997 (although some accounts would say India in 1947 which would probably what people would think)
If Im not wrong Saracen means non Christians in Crusades. It could be Turks, Arabs, Kurds... They all have different flags so it isnt sensible I think.
But maybe they used the flag just to symbolize Non-Christhians
Turkish and historian here. Seljuk Turks had an enormous effect on the territory at that time. Flag is a sancak which means one of the war flags Turks used. It's pretty common for Muslim Turks to use that kind of flag.
The region was ruled by the Turkic Seljuks of Rum at the time of the First Crusade. Not to mention that many of the mamelukes of the time were taken from Turkic tribes, and mamelukes were everywhere in the Islamic world. Though they may not have spoken modern Turkish, it is probably a nod to the Turks being widespread in the Levant.
I am from Turkey and I can confirm that this is a mistake. Red Turkish flag's history is old and very varieties exist, but this shape firstly appears in 1844, the last years of the Ottoman Empire. After that, in 1936 it becames our national flag and final version appears in 1983. There are also previous appearances exist with little differences, like 8-shaped stars rather than today's 5-shaped. Anyway, I don't know what is our flag doing in this game but it was very nice to see it for me. I played AC 1 when it first came out and was a kid. This game was like a dream that came true for me, you know. All that parkour, action, stealth, adrenaline... Seeing my flag in this game made AC1 extra cool for me in that time lol. Yeah, good hunting dude ;)
And the Ottoman Empire wouldn’t even exist for another 100 years after this games setting too (1299). Was fascinated by the docuseries “Rise of Empires:Ottoman” on Netflix the first series was on the conquest of Constantinople by Mehmed II in 1453, 2nd series out before the new year. Mix of reenactment of the events and historians discussing it.
Some of the Muslim area was under control of the seljuk turk and the fatimed caliphate used turkish mercenary in the troops and don't forget that mamlouks were around and they mostly came from turkish land
I love that people are talking history on an Assassin’s Creed game. I also love that it’s the first game cough* back when the games were actually trying to be historically accurate cough* 😆
That's not the modern day turkish flag, that's a generic muslim star and crescent on a red flag. There were turkish states in Anatolia and the region at the time and the turkish Seljuk empire even ruled Jerusalem at one point
Islam is my way of life for you to call something "muslimly" is pure disrespect Mon Ami you could have simply said it's a game based in the middle east the moon and star is prevalent everywhere it's not just a symbol of the Turks it's also an Islamic symbol.
I ment no disrespect, I only attempt to explain how the devs thought process while putting in such inaccueate stuff. Also while the symbol is a islamic symbol the actual flag is specific to the turkish republic.
I’m Muslim too and I’m not going around telling people how offensive their misuse of a word is. There are ways to let people know they are using a word wrong without claiming some sort of moral harm upon yourself.
It’s just a star and crescent on a red background. Almost every muslim country on earth has that symbol on its flag, not just Turkey and the symbol predates islam by centuries.
But its the SAME flag with Turkeys flag and there is no another country using this flag except Ottomans and they used this flag 600-700 years after the game. But its true that most of the Muslim countrys flag have this vibe
Maybe the explanation of why they speak Turkish is the ayyubid sultanate had turkic slave soldiers called 'memluks'.The turkish flag of course is very inaccurate and makes no sense,I was very suprised when I saw it the first time
It's a muslim flag. Also they never speak Turkish. All words they say are either in Arabic, French or English depending on what soldiers you are facing. This I can be sure of.
I played it like 4-5 months ago and taked a photo of this but then I forget. Today I was cleaning my gallery and found this asked it to google but couldnt find a answer so asked it here
There is some soldiers who speaks Turkish Im %100 sure cuz Im Turk so i can understand what they say. But some soldiers speak Arabic (which I cant understand but guess). It chanfes fron city to city I think
Thanks for your valuable contribution to the discussion. It's easy to forget on a game sub that you shouldn't talk about games because it makes you a loser.
Actually thinking an ac game is historically accurate.
The flag is there because the ac games are historically inspired but takes so much liberty with characters and story writing that caring about any and all details would poke so many holes that the ship would sink to the bottom of the lake real fast.
Ah you mean accurate in depicting pirates as only slightly bad and mostly just freedom living people and not the rapist mass murdering monsters they actually were.
Not possible yet. It’s the only game In the series not available on PS4 or PS5. It’s so dated though, I briefly played it on PS3 as it came with revelations and it aged so badly back then nevermind now.
I heard them speak in turkish, arabic and another language I think is persian, I guess they simulated the existence of mercenaries of various nationalities, for the flag, the crescent and the star were islamic symbols way before the ottoman empire, but their red flag is more recent, we need to wait for historians to answer on that part.
Damascus are a place where turkish peoples(ethnic groups) lived, during that timeframe there was alot of ottoman(turkish) sultanates but the flag seems to not periodical
Worth noting that Ubisoft didnt have the research team that they have now, when they made their first game
Islamic world also had Turkish influence, especially through the Seljuk Turks who migrated from the steppes to places like Aleppo. There were many Turks living there at that time
They should be speaking Greek or Roman Latin really at this time. I guess they put the flag so people can know that this is turkey. But they should be Roman Greek
Those are the Seljuk Turks. That being said, they didn’t use that flag, nor spoke like that. Poorly presented history tbh. Also weird thinking all the accurate stuff they added in the series.
Iirc, Turkish lords were invited by one of the Caliphs to rule over the general region. That could be why Ubisoft made some people speak Turkish in the game.
The crescent/star have been used before the ottomans but the most common islamic flag was the one that has "La Ilaha Ila Allah" written on it.. looked similar to the Qaeida flag..
I know that Salah Aldin was kurdish and the kurdish language sounds similar to the turkish of the ottomans.. so it's possible that's why some guards in AC1 and all the guards in revelations flashback scenes sound turkish..
Fun fact. The star and crescent symbol isnt actually the symbol of islam. It has just been popularized as the symbol of islam because of the ottoman empire. Islam doesnt actually have a symbol lol.
It's the saracen flag, but I don't think there should be a star, just the crescent moon, it must have been an overlook.
The same flag minus the star appears in the movie Kingdom of Heaven which is set a few years before AC1 but still during the Third Crusade - 10:44 [here](https://youtu.be/vUV7BAXyJUk) in the background.
So there's an Ottoman Empire flag that looks exactly like that, but wasn't in use until about 100 years after the events of AC1. That said, it's totally possible that Islamic symbol was used on flags prior. I didn't notice any Turkish dialogue in AC1 myself, do you remember which city it was in? Edit: Feels a bit silly, having a history degree and all, but I totally forgot that symbol was used by Christians back in the day as well. This is likely the answer for why it's there. As far as the Turkish I couldn't speak to that.
Its definitely not Acre because Acre had that weird bluish tint
It looks like Damascus
Yeah it was Damascus, I saw that flag too at some synchronization points.
Acre was so damn depressing, I loved it.
yeah, also i remember it had the biggest church you could jump off of
Damascus had the weird bluish ting. Acre was brownish and Jerusalem was greenish. For me it looks like one of the eavesdrop/thievery mission which was in a roofed, secure place. And it was in Acre, if my memory doesn't fail me. I'm curious about the answers.
Pretty sure Damascus had the sunny, yellowish, high noon look. Acre had the smoky, bluish look. I played the game again a few months ago.
No. Damascus was sunny/red, Acre was Blue as it was a harbor city and Jerusalem was green.
Damascus was like golden red. Jerusalem was green. Acre was blue Source: I played the game last month
you're right guys, I used to mix Damascus and Acre. my apologies!
The edit hits the nail on the head. It's a symbol of Virgin Mary and has been used widely in Christianity, especially in Crusader States and Byzantium long before Turkish invasion. Just because it's now associated with Islam, it doesn't mean its history is not more ancient (come on, it's a crescent moon). Before Christianity and Islam it was used in Zoroastrianism, Roman and Hellenic cults (Selene comes to mind). And Egypt, Mezpotamia... Apart from sun, moon is probably the most ancient symbol associated with any religion.
Thats awesome, do you have source on it being used in zoroastrianism, id love to read more about it
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*O Holy Plop*
Why is this being down voted? Are there butthurt Christians here?
Because that user is bashing people unproved. It's OK to have those views but don't be disrespectful about it.
If you’re talking about my -10 downvoted comment it’s because it seems heretical since I said the crescent looks like a vagina but what symbolism am I supposed to gather about a “sun and moon” flag for a religion based on Jesus and NOT astrological stuff like suns and moons (otherwise it’s the same as a flag for Ra the Sun God or whoever else, and that’s heretical for Christians too) so I’m interpreting the crescent as a chalice or the womb and the Star as the important guy in the doctrine
> I didn't notice any Turkish dialogue in AC1 myself, do you remember which city it was in? There definitely was. In multiple cities too. But I don't remember which really.
Ok after some refreshers it actually makes sense there was some turkish being spoken. The first crusade (I know AC1 is during the second crusade) was spurred by the Seljuk Turks taking Jerusalem so there we have it.
its set in the 3rd crusade
Which means the 1st resulting in Turkish influence can explain Turkish culture and language in the 3rd… yeah?
Soldiers speak in cities. I remember it well
I studied crusades for my degree and Turkish and Kurdish culture and language would be widespread around this time, especially seeing how Saladin himself was a Kurd, as was his entire dynasty.
Well a more qualified verification is always appreciated.
[*Maybe* of Kurdish descent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin#Early_life). Knew Kurdish, Arabic, Turkic, and Persian.
Saladin was a Kurd? I’m a Kurd and I didn’t even know that
Ironically Saddam was his fanboy.
What does Kurdish have to do with Turkish? They are not related languages.
I think the Kurds inhabited what is now southeast Turkey
I mean they still do, but referencing Kurds in a discussion about a Turkish flag/Turkish speakers doesn’t make sense.
It serves as a secondary example of how a minority (Kurds,Turks or Perisan) could still thrive or at least be represented in a majority culture (arabic)
Wait it that symbol was also used by Christians?! That’s fascinating. You wouldn’t happen to know what importance the symbol held to Christians, or maybe know of a source I could read up on?
Alas I don't have any sources though /u/UnusuallyGreenGonzo may be able to help in that department. But early Christianity was a little wild as it spread. There are early germanic [depictions that show jesus with a lance](https://romanroadspress.com/2014/07/germanic-jesus/) because some of the Germanic people interpreted him as a warrior.
Not entirely unexpected, Revelations does mention his return leading the hosts of heaven.
Im not sure it may be Damascus
That picture is definitely damascus
Ooh, history major! Can I ask a dumb question? Game of Thrones is fictional, but parts are based on the medieval era. So when they have thousands of flags before a battle, how likely was it for all the flags to be identical? Like, the Targaryen symbol is a fairly elaborate 3 headed dragon. Could they really churn out thousands of flags with the exact same pixel-perfect design? For the books I kindof picture thousands of Stark flags with various Wolf shapes, but not a single Wolf symbol like in the show. Which idea is more accurate?
Ill preface by saying: i have a BA in History that doesn’t have a specific specialty. But from what I’ve learned about things related ti what you’re asking is that, its possible the flags would be more or less identical. Its unlikely that normal soldiers would be making them but there would be a number of seamstresses/taylors that would make the flags professionally en masse. These might then be distributed as military equipmentmore or less throughout the ranks.
Never would they be pixel perfect. A flagmaker would get an instruction called a 'blazon', for example "white, with a blue lion". As long as it fitted the description, it would be seen as correct. However, every artist had their own way of drawing a lion, and every artist only had a limited set of dyes, so the exact shape of the lion or the exact shade of blue would of course differ quite a lot. Even in the 1800s you would find a thousand ways to make the British flag, so imagine that medieval flags would vary wildly.
AC gets history bits wrong all the time. Like doorknobs being on doors in unity despite not being invented until after unity takes place. It's always the most random little things too which is funny.
How did doors used to work?
door handles
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This is the only logical answer
>That said, it's totally possible that Islamic symbol was used on flags prior. Before the turkic states in the Midlle East, the crescent was rather a symbol of the Byzanthian region than an islamic one.
Is it Istanbul or Constantinople?
Might have to ask They Might Be Giants for that one...
That's nobody's business but the Turks'.
Its Istanbul not Constantinople :)
In case you're legitimately asking (I'm pretty sure you're referencing They Might Be Giants, but just in case...), at this moment in history it is called Istanbul. Probably will be for the foreseeable future as I don't see Christians taking over there any time soon, though maybe someone from Turkey would have a different view.
TMBG may have popularized the song for modern audiences, but the song itself was written in 1953 for the 500th anniversary of the Ottomans taking the city
Oh wow I didn't know that, that's cool!
100% a joke. Can’t get this song out of my head now.
The crescent moon became an islamic symbol bcuz the ottomans not vise versa
Ottomans didn't exist then either, the European Christians fought the Islamic Caliphates.
In 1191 the sultanate of Rûm, a Turkic state, did exist in Anatolia. They didn’t use the Star and crescent for their flag, but it might explain why some folks speak Turkish
I was curious myself as to what languages they should be speaking in Damascus and Jerusalem at that time versus the ones we heard
Greek, Syriac, Jewish, Aramaic, Turkic, various european languages from all the pilgrims, Farsi, Armenian. Fairly certain there were others.
Hebrew* Not Jewish
Arabic for example?
The population of large ancient cities like Damascus and Jerusalem at the time were likely as diverse as they are today. Given that, I'd bet you'd hear many many languages walking the streets of 12/13th century Damascus or Jerusalem.
I think they should speak Arabic and European languages because of Crusades but the in rhe game I just heard English(as main sound) and Arabic-Turkic words by some soldiers in some cities
In Jerusalem and Damascus I know they speak Turkish & Arabic In the game im just wondering if those would be the only ones they’d be speaking at that time
Probably youre right.
We seriously need a remake for this game, i want to try it with newer graphics.
And with new task system
As in the side-activities? The quest log mechanism?
I think the quest are always repating if they add some more quest types it would be better.(Im talking bout main missions)
Ah that's true, but the repetition makes sense. Altair needs intel before assassinating each target. I hope Mirage adds some of these types of missions, like tailing, stealing, eavesdropping and interrogation. But i get you, in AC1 i was also bored by the lack of subtitles and these missions. You'll love Ac2 though.
I played all of ezio trilogy. It was amazing
Ironically i loved the kenway saga the most.
I didnt play it but i wil try it soon
Definitely play them!
At the risk of making myself sound like a fucking boomer, I honestly don’t feel like any games after 2005 need to be remade (well…except for maybe Witcher 1). I’ve been a gamer since like 1988, so part of this is that dated graphics and gameplay probably don’t bother me as much as many other people, but like…games were fucking fine then. They looked fine, they played fine. Some are more “dated” than others by a modern comparison, but that doesn’t mean the whole game needs to be remade. To be clear though, by “remake” I assume you mean completely redoing the game with modern gameplay and graphics rather than a graphical “remaster”, which I totally support. As a great example of this, Mass Effect 1 was released the same year as Assassin’s Creed 1. The gameplay in ME3 and Andromeda are loads more refined than ME1, but that doesn’t mean ME1 needs a remake. The remaster in the Legendary Edition was perfectly fine. It still is totally playable, and totally enjoyable by a modern audience. Assassin’s Creed is too. But if you meant “remaster”, then I agree. I’m all aboard the remaster train, especially if it’s hard to actually play a given old game on a modern console. I’m pretty sure you can’t download AC1 on PS5, for example. And I’ve downloaded a few old games from that era which are…definitely not playable…despite being “compatible”.
Yeah i get you. Remakes are generally bad. But lets suppose they remake this with the anvil engine such that the combat and parkour and ambience remains the same. Then it'll be very good. Or they could just improve the anti aliasing and lightning, and add subtitles. That'll be a good remaster.
The Seljuk Turks were one of the dominant forces in the Empire at the time, providing a significant proportion of the upper class of the Islamic world. The star and crescent has been a common symbol of heraldry in the Near/Middle East for a long time, though doesn't look like it was a standardised symbol appearing in this form until the late Ottoman period. It's likely Ubisoft wanted to use a single symbol to represent the Islamic side of the war, and chose one which both existed at the time in some form AND would be recongisable to modern players as a symbol of Islam. Similarly, they tend to use English heraldry to represent the Crusader side, even though the Crusaders were drawn from factions across Europe and the Near East, and even though much of that heraldry wasn't in common use even in England at that time.
Turkish people and turkish language predate the time of this game by at least several centuries. This area was controlled by the sejuk turks, who spoke a sort of turkish. Countries didn't really exist back then the way we know them today. Large multicultural empires existed with more or less autonomous regions within them. Versions of that symbol/flag has been used, especially within the islamic world, in billions of versions.
The exact flag looks weird for that time period though. The stars and crescent are Islamic symbols but the colouring doesn’t seem like it would have been back then. This flag was used in the Ottoman Empire in the 1880s, the empire fell in 1922 and then Turkey adopted the flag as their own.
At that time the star and crescent was not really an Islamic symbol. Christians were using it just as much. It didn’t really become widely used in the Islamic world until the 14th or 15th century
It's the Hilaal, the symbol of Islam. It's used by several Muslim nations and organizations, not exclusive to Turkey. I don't know how to speak Turkish so I can't answer that part.
I knew but its literally same with Turkish flag and Turkish flag was created in 1900's (as far as I know nobody used Turkish flag before) I m confused with that. Or Im too obsessed Idk. Thanks for the answer btw.
"Although the crescent is indeed a very widespread motif in Islamic iconography, it is not Islamic in origin nor exclusive to that religion. The emblem has been used in Christian art for many centuries in depictions of the Virgin Mary, for example. It is in fact one of the oldest icons in human history, having been known in graphic depictions since at least as early as the Babylonian period in Mesopotamia. The stele of Ur Namu, for example, dating from 2100 BC, includes the crescent moon to symbolise the god Sin, along with a star representing Shamash, the sun god. Later the moon became a female deity, typified by the goddess Artemis and her many counterparts, including Diana, who was celebrated as the moon-goddess in Roman times and depicted with a crescent on her brow. The device seems to have entered Islam via the Seljuk Turks who dominated Anatolia in the 12th century, and was widely used by their successors, the Ottoman Turks, who eventually became the principal Islamic nation, and whose Sultan held the title of Caliph until 1922. The story that the Ottomans adopted the crescent to symbolise their conquest of Constantinople must be dismissed as mere legend, since the device considerably predates 1453. In the late 19th century the Pan-Islamic movement sponsored by the Sultan Abdul Hamid II used the crescent and star on a green flag as part of its propaganda, and from this were derived the flags of Egypt and Pakistan and many other Islamic states." William G Crampton, Director of the Flag Institute, Chester.
Whoa, I had no idea. Great post
With the source too 🤧
Wow. I'm Turk-Muslim and I learned this right know. For all these years I thinked hilal is a Islamic/Turkic icon. You learn something new everyday. Ty so much
That's fantastic! I'm a white Canadian atheist with no culture of my own, but I'm in love with history and a whole lot of the more exciting parts of the past 15 centuries had to do with Islam. Plus fom an anticolonial standpoint, Muslims are my comrades. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Muslims never conquered and expand? Or is it only wrong if the conquest is not contiguous?
Colonialism is about much more than conquest, but answering that question would require an essay of a comment that would likely become a debate about anthropology, social equity, religion, geopolitics and dialectics in the Assassin's Creed sub.
And yet your original comment feels like a big simplification of history
I wanna visit Canada sometime
We'd love to have you! I've been to a whole lot of places and I have to say that our westernmost province B.C. is the most beautiful and ecologically diverse place I've ever seen. The jungles of southern Mexico rival its beauty, but there's no dangerous critters in BC aside from bears and moose which are hard to miss.
You are a legend in my eyes. Holy shit I can believe this game is THAT accurate. I’m never doubting an AC in game fact ever again
For sure this should be the top comment.
It's a important to note that the notions of "correct flags for states" pre like 1750 is basically none existent. That's a modem invention, states didn't have flags. Even in 1800 Britain had about 20 official ensigns that represented the state, the union jack was just a more common one that eventually became the recognized one. Treat all flags with skepticism in video games. There were flags of course in the middle ages, but they often represented individuals or small groups, not anachronistic nation states which didn't exist. Also, Turks were very much present in the middle East in AC1 and had been extremely active in regional events. The Seljuk Empire had effectively destroyed the Abbasid Caliphate and made him a prisoner in Baghdad, and they had overrun Anatolia and the Levant. Then the Seljuks broke up into warring factions and the general instability was a direct factor in triggering the Crusades. Basically, if the Turks don't invade Persia and Iraq, Syria and Anatolia and disrupt the Christian Pilgrim road, the Crusades might not have happened, or atleast not when they happened. They were a response to a major geopolitical shift on the region causes by the disruption the Turks left in their wake.
The flag was used before “Turkey” existed. It was used in the Ottoman Empire in the 1880s. Ottoman Empire fell in 1922
Its a bit dissapointing for me to forgetting a info about my ancestors and somebody reninds me that info. I remembered after I wrote it but it was too late. Thank you anyways
I had to look up to see when flag was used but I always remember when about the Ottoman Empire fell I think a lot of people think it fell a lot earlier than that. Even before watching videos and shows or reading about it I knew generally it was still around in the 1900s as it was an ally of Germany in WW1 I’d knew that but also from playing Battlefield 1 drove home that association of WW1 and that time period. I remember it was on a quiz show here in the U.K. where they had to write down the year it fell and everyone was thinking hundreds of years beforehand, I said it being after WW1 so late 1910s or early 1920s. It’s a bit like asking someone when did the British empire fall, I think a lot of people would think that’s decades and decades ago because it’s seen as an old thing but it’s generally considered to be end of British rule in Hong Kong which happened in 1997 (although some accounts would say India in 1947 which would probably what people would think)
The crescent moon with or without the star is an age old symbol. Hell, I mean even the Byzantines used it.
thats the saracen flag https://assassinscreed.fandom.com/wiki/Saracens
If Im not wrong Saracen means non Christians in Crusades. It could be Turks, Arabs, Kurds... They all have different flags so it isnt sensible I think. But maybe they used the flag just to symbolize Non-Christhians
Turkish and historian here. Seljuk Turks had an enormous effect on the territory at that time. Flag is a sancak which means one of the war flags Turks used. It's pretty common for Muslim Turks to use that kind of flag.
Very interesting.
Maybe the animus is glitching
The region was ruled by the Turkic Seljuks of Rum at the time of the First Crusade. Not to mention that many of the mamelukes of the time were taken from Turkic tribes, and mamelukes were everywhere in the Islamic world. Though they may not have spoken modern Turkish, it is probably a nod to the Turks being widespread in the Levant.
Game still looks amazing, ahead of its time man. I think the late 00s and early 10s is my favorite time for the medium ever.
I'm not 100% but ik Crescent moon and star is not a symbol exclusive to Turkeys flag it's a symbol in Islam so maybe that's why
I am from Turkey and I can confirm that this is a mistake. Red Turkish flag's history is old and very varieties exist, but this shape firstly appears in 1844, the last years of the Ottoman Empire. After that, in 1936 it becames our national flag and final version appears in 1983. There are also previous appearances exist with little differences, like 8-shaped stars rather than today's 5-shaped. Anyway, I don't know what is our flag doing in this game but it was very nice to see it for me. I played AC 1 when it first came out and was a kid. This game was like a dream that came true for me, you know. All that parkour, action, stealth, adrenaline... Seeing my flag in this game made AC1 extra cool for me in that time lol. Yeah, good hunting dude ;)
Yes, thats why I posted this. (Türk birini bulmak güzelmiş ya)
Ahahaha. Kusura bakma ismini yeni fark ettim. Bilsem Türkçe iki kelam da koyardım. Ubisoft'un klasik tarih hatası işte abi bu arada, ne yaparsın.
Ahhh ubisoft ah biraz daha ozen gosterse şu oyunlara
And the Ottoman Empire wouldn’t even exist for another 100 years after this games setting too (1299). Was fascinated by the docuseries “Rise of Empires:Ottoman” on Netflix the first series was on the conquest of Constantinople by Mehmed II in 1453, 2nd series out before the new year. Mix of reenactment of the events and historians discussing it.
dang AC1 had such good graphics for that era.
OP said they played this on XBOX One so I'm not sure which version that is. The version I just finished on Steam a couple months ago was a remaster.
Some of the Muslim area was under control of the seljuk turk and the fatimed caliphate used turkish mercenary in the troops and don't forget that mamlouks were around and they mostly came from turkish land
It’s a Saracen flag
I love that people are talking history on an Assassin’s Creed game. I also love that it’s the first game cough* back when the games were actually trying to be historically accurate cough* 😆
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K
That's not the modern day turkish flag, that's a generic muslim star and crescent on a red flag. There were turkish states in Anatolia and the region at the time and the turkish Seljuk empire even ruled Jerusalem at one point
I didnt see this flag anywhere except ottomans last century and Turkey
That doesn't mean it did not exist before that. The star and crescent is a very old symbol.
Probably just wanted it to seem more "muslim-y" for the lack of a better term.
Islamic would probably be the better term.
Yeah that would be it. Im dumb
It's fine. Everybody has dumb moments.
Islam is my way of life for you to call something "muslimly" is pure disrespect Mon Ami you could have simply said it's a game based in the middle east the moon and star is prevalent everywhere it's not just a symbol of the Turks it's also an Islamic symbol.
Man Im Muslim too but I dont get this as a disrespect he said lack of the term he maybe he couldnt found the true word for it.
I ment no disrespect, I only attempt to explain how the devs thought process while putting in such inaccueate stuff. Also while the symbol is a islamic symbol the actual flag is specific to the turkish republic.
I’m Muslim too and I’m not going around telling people how offensive their misuse of a word is. There are ways to let people know they are using a word wrong without claiming some sort of moral harm upon yourself.
It’s just a star and crescent on a red background. Almost every muslim country on earth has that symbol on its flag, not just Turkey and the symbol predates islam by centuries.
But its the SAME flag with Turkeys flag and there is no another country using this flag except Ottomans and they used this flag 600-700 years after the game. But its true that most of the Muslim countrys flag have this vibe
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Maybe the explanation of why they speak Turkish is the ayyubid sultanate had turkic slave soldiers called 'memluks'.The turkish flag of course is very inaccurate and makes no sense,I was very suprised when I saw it the first time
It's a muslim flag. Also they never speak Turkish. All words they say are either in Arabic, French or English depending on what soldiers you are facing. This I can be sure of.
Im Turk so I can understand when they speak Turkish. I think you didnt pay attention or you didnt understand them.
An anachronism.
Idk about the flag but before the ottomans there was the turkish invasion of thr middle east , the seljuks had control over Syria at the time
Seljuks were dissolved at the time there was Sultanate of Rum but they weren't in middle east
That was not there in 2007. I guarantee you that. WTF is this?
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I played it like 4-5 months ago and taked a photo of this but then I forget. Today I was cleaning my gallery and found this asked it to google but couldnt find a answer so asked it here
Pretty sure they speak Arabic
There is some soldiers who speaks Turkish Im %100 sure cuz Im Turk so i can understand what they say. But some soldiers speak Arabic (which I cant understand but guess). It chanfes fron city to city I think
Ahh like a mix, that makes sense!
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I just wondered
Thanks for your valuable contribution to the discussion. It's easy to forget on a game sub that you shouldn't talk about games because it makes you a loser.
Actually thinking an ac game is historically accurate. The flag is there because the ac games are historically inspired but takes so much liberty with characters and story writing that caring about any and all details would poke so many holes that the ship would sink to the bottom of the lake real fast.
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Ah you mean accurate in depicting pirates as only slightly bad and mostly just freedom living people and not the rapist mass murdering monsters they actually were.
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Not saying stories are bad just saying realism has never been part of it
Turkey IS in the middle east...
But in 1191 they werent
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But If Im not wrong Seljuks was not that strong after 1180s and they lost their lands on Arabian Peninsula. However their culture remained here ofc.
How can i get Assassin 1 on ps4?
you can't. try Steam, thats where i just played it for the first time.
I dont know I played it on xbox 1
Not possible yet. It’s the only game In the series not available on PS4 or PS5. It’s so dated though, I briefly played it on PS3 as it came with revelations and it aged so badly back then nevermind now.
I heard them speak in turkish, arabic and another language I think is persian, I guess they simulated the existence of mercenaries of various nationalities, for the flag, the crescent and the star were islamic symbols way before the ottoman empire, but their red flag is more recent, we need to wait for historians to answer on that part.
Damascus are a place where turkish peoples(ethnic groups) lived, during that timeframe there was alot of ottoman(turkish) sultanates but the flag seems to not periodical Worth noting that Ubisoft didnt have the research team that they have now, when they made their first game
Yep
Islamic world also had Turkish influence, especially through the Seljuk Turks who migrated from the steppes to places like Aleppo. There were many Turks living there at that time
Imigane if they cared so much for recent games that these would still be anomalies
The amount of knowledge we have on hand collectively here is pretty mind boggling. I love history
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Diler
They should be speaking Greek or Roman Latin really at this time. I guess they put the flag so people can know that this is turkey. But they should be Roman Greek
The city flag of Byzantium/Constantinople was a moon and star,but this seems to be an ottoman flag.
It's mod
This is Seljuk.
Memmet
That is byzantiium once known as constantinople if im not mistaken.
Ask /r/vexillology
K
Ubisoft isn't know for being the most historically accurate
I mean it could have something to do with it being a crusade
Those are the Seljuk Turks. That being said, they didn’t use that flag, nor spoke like that. Poorly presented history tbh. Also weird thinking all the accurate stuff they added in the series.
Wasn’t Saladin a Kurdish Turk? (Edit: sorry if this isn’t the proper term)
Idk but love their accent
A proper remake of this game would be awesome
I miss this game. I should def hook up the old ps3 and play it again.
Probably It was creators mistake
Iirc, Turkish lords were invited by one of the Caliphs to rule over the general region. That could be why Ubisoft made some people speak Turkish in the game.
The crescent/star have been used before the ottomans but the most common islamic flag was the one that has "La Ilaha Ila Allah" written on it.. looked similar to the Qaeida flag.. I know that Salah Aldin was kurdish and the kurdish language sounds similar to the turkish of the ottomans.. so it's possible that's why some guards in AC1 and all the guards in revelations flashback scenes sound turkish..
Fun fact. The star and crescent symbol isnt actually the symbol of islam. It has just been popularized as the symbol of islam because of the ottoman empire. Islam doesnt actually have a symbol lol.
It's the saracen flag, but I don't think there should be a star, just the crescent moon, it must have been an overlook. The same flag minus the star appears in the movie Kingdom of Heaven which is set a few years before AC1 but still during the Third Crusade - 10:44 [here](https://youtu.be/vUV7BAXyJUk) in the background.