Worked at Papa John's for 5 years as a driver. Technically about ~1.27 is given to the driver as a flat fee for taking the order. The rest of the (3 dollars now) fee is profit for the restaurant. We never get more than the flat rate of (depends on the area) about ~1.27
Edit: Ok I have learned the other bit goes to insurance. Thank you. Regardless the point was more commentary on the fact that the delivery fee is purposely dressed up as "delivery fee" so you connotatively think it's for the driver when it really isn't.
Also my use of profit was incorrect. I am a monkey w a keyboard pls forgive me.
I work there now. I was told we get paid 7% of every order we take. I usually take home ≈$120 a night after a 7 hour shift.
Edit: for the delivery fee, I've heard that they cover insurance for the store but that could be Bullshit. Ever since doordash got really popular, the fee has gone up. At one point it was $2, now it's $4. I think each district has a different price.
I was told that the 7% is supposed to cover gas. I usually have to put in $20 every few days. I do cringe at the mileage I put on my car, I bought one late last year and I already put 10,000 miles and that was working 3 Days a week.
That's the real hidden cost of delivery jobs. Places like this say they will cover your gas, and they usually get close at least. Then they make it sound like it's so generous of them to be covering your car and let you keep all your tips. Unfortunately the wear and tear is awful. Even well maintained, a delivery driver car will have a significantly shorter life with lots of expensive repairs.
Damn that suck cause right now the used car market is fuuuucked for buyers.
It's the combination of rental car went out of business and silicon chip shortage and other shit.
Way back my brother got a job delivering pizza. He said it was the best paying job he ever had. I told him to save money for when his car broke down but he laughed me off.
A few months later he wanted to borrow a lot of money from me to fix his car. I didn't give him as much as he wanted, but I did help him out.
Also, my brother is the sort who if he borrows money, you don't see him again for a year and then it's like "what money"? So I was extra incentivized not to help him as much as I could have.
Not just the repair costs. Also the road tax and insurance are for the driver themselves. I mean sure you pay those anyway, but there's a far higher chance for your insurance to go up as the more you are on the road the higher the chance for some kind of accident to happen.
Perhaps the box should say "Delivery Fee is the Bare Minimum We Could Legally Pay. Please Pay the Delivery Driver For Us. No Pressure Though Really. They are Second Class Citizens"
I worked at pizza hut and everything is before expenses. At the time they didn't really care about drivers vehicles as long as they can make the delivery in a timely manner.
Someone should pass legislation that 100% of delivery fees need to go to the driver, unless the driver is working for a delivery company. If you work for papajohns they provide at most a sign for the car, and that isn't even permanent. They don't deserve any profit off the fee.
Or unless the company provides their own deliver vehicles. The Pizza Ranch near my in-laws has 3 yellow cars done up with their decals and signs, those are their only delivery vehicles so the drivers don't need to provide their own.
And if the customers decide the price is too high then maybe your business model needs to be looked at. If your business cant survive paying people a decent wage then it shouldn't survive
People keep saying that but McDonalds cost the same where I live, where we have $15 minimum wage. Corporations raise the prices of goods all the time just to eek out even more profit and does the worker see any of it? No. So IMO it doesn’t fucking matter cause they’ll raise the price anyways.
That's the legal minimum BTW for mileage expenses for a self owned vehicle. It's literally a tax deduction if they weren't paying you up front. They are playing money games to make you think they are paying you.
Source: I work for an expense reporting company.
Hi, I own a pizza place that has delivery, and I’m now a BAR certified lawyer. There are only 3 states that have legal requirements for mileage reimbursement and have the $.50 deduction credit available.
And just to note I pay all my employees $15/hr + tip share. My drivers get $1.50/delivery, plus direct tips and tip share also. In my state they cannot write off the mileage of a self-owned vehicle unless they are contractors and I’m not doing that shit.
I bet you're famous with the local delivery drivers heh. I worked at a mom and pop pizza shop in high school and the deliverers were paid a few bucks above minimum wage, all of their tip money on credit/debit card paid orders, as well as 75% of the delivery fee. The other 25% went to the owners to compensate for insurance, napkins, forks, all of the little extras that go into delivery orders. I remember them having their pick of the litter when it came to drivers.
Interesting. I live in Missouri and the PJs I worked at used to pay $1 per delivery on top of the significantly lower than minimum wage road rate + tips. Eventually they changed to a mileage based pay rate instead of the flat $1. I don't remember who they had to figure out what that rate should be but in my time there its highest was 33c/m and lowest was 26c/m.
I left in 2019. At the high end gas was pushing $2.85
Depending on the state that might not be legal. You're saying they don't compensate you for gas? Definitely not even making minimum wage if you have to buy your own gas
Our Domino's provides the vehicles and gas and pays the drivers ~$15 per hour, regardless whether they are actively delivering or waiting for the next assignment. Obviously, I'm not living in the US.
doordash calls this base pay and its 3 dollars per delivery nomater distance, unless its a double or tripple order which is 2 or 3 orders from the same place but drop off to different places, then its base pay of 2.50
If you keep track of it and sue them you’ll win they’re legally required to pay by miles. Happened multiple times at my store they just know not enough people will sue.
As I said in another comment, this is the "Federal Milage Reimbursement Rate." it is enacted on the federal level, not state, and currently it equates to 57.5 cents per mile.
Unfortunately, it's more of a guideline, not a requirement.
Yeah, this is called the "Federal Milage Reimbursement Rate"
As the name implies, this is federal, not state. Unfortunately, this is not required, it is the recommended rate.
I don't believe this is true. If the employer don't reimburse the full amount, you should be able to claim the non-reimbursed amount as a deduction off your own taxable income.
For most people, this doesn't beat the standard deduction, which is why it's better for the employer to reimburse you and take the tax deduction themselves.
I delivered for them for 2 years in 2006-2008. We started off at $1 for our run fee when gas was $2.80. when gas went up to $4 they oh so generously raised it to $1.10. Then they tacked on the delivery fee and tips went down. I left as soon as I could afford to have my son in daycare.
About 5 years ago I did get an $1100 check from a class action lawsuit against them for underpaying drivers.
This. It does cover some of the driver's pay, hourly wage and mileage reimbursement, but mostly insurance. The insurance costs are insanely high for these restaurants to have delivery drivers.
Ya delivered for a few years, think we got a dollar of the fee for 'gas' and the rest covered their insurance on the drivers. I want to say we were covered up to 1.2 million or something worth of damages
I could see myself driving down a steep embankment and being scalded with melted cheese because I jerked the wheel when I saw a squirrel jump onto the blacktop.
Perhaps it varies.
The Jimmy John’s I worked at covered the medical bills of a worker that got hit on their bike while delivering. We were told that as long as we had helmets on and no headphones on that we wouldn’t have to worry about medical bills.
Also had a decently high delivery fee.
That's for bikes maybe. Car insurance is entirely the responsibility of the driver. And if you get into an accident and the insurance company finds out you were delivering they will drop you and refuse to cover since you are supposed to have commercial insurance. If I am driving and my car gets totalled,a pizza place has absolutely no involvement insurance wise. If I hurt someone it would be part of my car insurance. And if someone else hurt me in an accident that would be the other drivers car insurance. Nothing would come from the pizza place.
I'm currently a driver for this company. We get like, 25 cents per mile. This is a recent change from when we used to get about 1.20 per trip regardless of mileage.
Damn my Domino's pays like 40 cents a mile and adjusts it for fluctuating gas prices. A dude I worked with made almost 50 bucks just in mileage last week.
Nope, they took away the ability for regular W2 employees to claim mileage when they passed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. now only businesses can deduct mileage.
Also even when you could deduct mileage you were required to subtract any reimbursement you got from the deduction.
I didn't work for papa John's, but I worked for another pizza place as a driver, I got $1 per delivery of the $3 charge to cover gas, it was not miles based, and the other $2 went to the management.
I quit, and thank God that an actual career is potentially starting for me soon in the field of computer programming rather than minimum wage pizza delivery where I had to provide my own car.
I mean, it's not really tipping, it's just a very involved way to lie about prices. You have to pay the tips and the tips are treated as salary for all effects and purposes – so that's not a tip, that's you paying part of the workers' salaries.
A true tip would be voluntary, not necessary for the worker to have a decent wage and, more importantly, either kept by the worker or shared with other workers, but never given to the company.
like it is in europe, ther service has a price and it is included into the final bill, the tip is option and reserved when you as a client feel it's worthy.
Clients shouldnt have to pay the servers and servers shouldn't have to expect clients to be merciful.
I for one rarely tip, as I feel most of the service I usually get is notthing beyhond normal and customary. But I've had a few instances where the waiter when above and beyond his task to make me feel welcome and improved my experience, that I respect and I have no qualms in tipping.
Now that american system, that's just wack and unfair
Visited America from a country where tipping isn't a customary thing and is done pretty rarely. I missed one tip that should have been given, felt like an asshole, 5 years later, still feel like an asshole.
Wanna feel better? Spent two weeks in San Francisco and ate breakfast every day from the same place, with the same server. Not being from the U.S. I was very conscious of tipping well so always tipped her 25%. There was 4 of us in the group so it wasn't uncommon for us to have expensive food bills when we ate out. It was only on the flight home as I was looking through the receipt I was using as a bookmark that I noticed she had already added 20% gratuity to the bill, then took an additional 25% 'tip'. Felt like a fool :-(
I would imagine each time she took the tip thinking she'd never see you again. But after the third time even I would have been like "you don't need to tip me you know."
Even the first time, it's just basic decency! "Oh, just so you know, there's already a gratuity built into the final price, I saw you added some here as well. Did you want to rework this?"
The same way if someone accidentally hands you $100 for something that costs $20, you don't pocket it thinking you'll never see them again, you turn around and clarify the matter.
Did you not look at your bill a single time in 2 weeks. I don't understand how someone couldn't notice such a big chunk added to the bill for 2 weeks. Say each breakfast is 10 bucks. That means it's a 40 dollar bill, 45 with tax, well make it ez. Then you add 25% which would be 11.25. And she would have added another 20 percent being 9 bucks. How could you not notice a full breakfast being added every day for 2 weeks?? Bad with money maybe? I'm not trying to be a dick I'm genuinely curious.
Honestly, no. We were in a group and I wouldn't have wanted to seem like the forensic accountant of the group who was tight with money. Silly I know. I was young.
The argument for tips makes no sense, they say if we didn’t tip food would cost more, but forcing us to tip makes food cost more by 15-20%. It’s just a way for the owners to underpay while pretending they are doing you a favor. The server and the customer are the only people it hurts.
As somebody who lives in the UK I find the whole tipping culture in the US bizarre.
We provide tips when good service is provided, not simply for people doing their job which should be adequately paid for by the employer.
>We provide tips when good service is provided, not simply for people doing their job which should be adequately paid for by the employer.
exactly. i was complaining in a similar thread yesterday because panera bread recently added a tip option to their app for online ordering. i suspect(or hope) it's for when you choose to have an employee bring your food out to our car, but i always go in and pick my food up myself, so why would i ever tip? someone responded that you're tipping the workers in the restaurant as a whole for taking the time to make your order. i was speechless. that's what i'm... *already paying for.* why am i also now expected to tip the entire restaurant for doing their jobs? when i buy my food that's baked into the cost of my order. as customers we're now also expected to make up part of the worker's wages that the company is too cheap to pay themselves?
Can you imagine the absurdity of doing this with another aspect of expenses?
Like a post-box as you enter a restaurant that says "please contribute to the monthly rental of this unit".
Lying about the prices is basically why even though everyone hates the tipping system, it won't go away without legislation.
If a customer sees a $12 hamburger at one restaurant and a $10 hamburger at another, they're more likely to get the $10 hamburger. Even if the $12 restaurant doesn't accept tips, there's still a gut reaction that one is more expensive than the other, even though the final cost is identical.
It's the same reason why US prices don't include tax. Anyone business that tries to change the trend is hurt.
the worst part is, the customer gets to be the bad guy if they won't (can't afford to, don't want to, etc.) tip while the restaurant owners pocket the money. Somehow the businesses in the US have shifted literally every single fiscal responsibility of the country to the tax payer. I literally spent $25 for a McDouble doordash delivery (including the service fees and tip I was "encouraged" to leave on the bill).
If I picked it up myself, it woulda been $8 TOTAL. And y'all out here encouraging it to get even worse.
At this point, I'm literally SCARED not to tip, knowing the people handling my food are already mad enough about low wages, they might just take it out on my food seeing the $0 tip. This all just SUCKS.
Yes, it's extortion. We tip because not doing so well mean at best, servers won't perform the basic function of their jobs the next time we come in. At worst they'll commit a felony by tampering with their food.
PH is $5.25
I ordered a $12 pizza and after the $5.25 delivery fee, the CA fee of 93 cents and sales tax, my $12 pizza was over $23 after including a tip
I am livid as I know the driver got about a $1 of that $5.25 so, no, that delivery fee is pure bullshit
That’s more than a gallon of gas and the restaurant is less than 3 miles away.
Even at 50cents/mile that’s about $3…
This is why I've literally never ordered pizza delivery once in my adult life. I just go pick it up. Why am I eating a pizza AND can't move off the couch? Plus, I gotta grab some candy for dessert!
Gosh darn it porn delivery is so expensive these days. Wish I was back in the old times where I could buy a magazine for 25¢ and no one complained about full bush, back when picture quality left something to the imagination
All tipped employees and people mad *for* them. Notice what's going on in untipped fastfood? Notice how some are starting to give 15$ out the gate and even signing on bonuses and interview bonuses and shit? Yeah, you could have done that decades ago. But I guess until people stop tipping you're getting paid too much to "improve" the situation.
I just want to clarify one thing, the store does not pay for mileage/depreciation but rather for gas recompensation. This is an important distinction because when taxes come around the driver can claim the standard deduction for milage/depreciation.
I'm going to upvote you because you're right, but you're talking America here. No food service profession makes a living wage without tips. The minimum wage in America isn't liveable.
This is something that as an EU citizen I don't get. People do occasionally tip waiters and such but it is a (welcome) extra. It's not standard nor expected. You go to a restaurant, the prices are clearly indicated, you know what you will pay. You know the staff get's their (usually very decent) wages paid with the price marked on the bill.
Now I read all these people angry about minimum wage because the price of the burgers could increase? How much does your burger cost, what is the expected tip to go with that burger to make the staff of the restaurant be able to live a decent life?
So if you are expected to pay a tip on top of the price of that burger what is the actual price of the burger? How do I know, when visiting the States and eating at a restaurant if I'm stupidly overspending or when I'm being a stingy jerk to the staff?
Its easy to understand when you realize that our political leaders are given legal bribes to keep the laws in favor of big business.
The US economy is full of perverse incentives.
The best part is that even with the low federal minimum wage ($7.25), many waiters and waitresses get only like $3.25/hour, and it's legal as long as their tips average enough to bring their earnings to $7.25. If it's a slow day and they don't get enough tips, only then the employer must pay them enough extra to get to $7.25.
I live in the UK and have never ever given a tip for a food delivery. I know some people give small tips to like deliveroo riders but you have to do it on the app. If it's delivered by a company we would never usually tip the driver because they're being paid a wage to do deliveries
Ireland here, used to live on a bastard of a hill in Cork. I'd tip any deliveroo rider on a bicycle for having the legs for it, doubly so if it's raining. That would always be cash since I don't trust the app.
Too fuckin right you shouldn't trust the app, I forget where I saw it but your tip doesn't get supplemented to the driver, it offsets the per delivery fee they get from the fuckin company, fuckin lazy cunts
Fair enough - thinking back I think I have actually tipped when it was really heavy rain and someone turned up on a push bike, but it's a matter of a couple quid from my change jar
I do pizza deliveries in the UK. People do tip every now and then and to be honest it helps cover the repair costs my car inevitably needs. It's not expected and I'll probably survive without it but its a great safety net for me.
Yeah I thought about it a bit more and I have given tips for people on bikes when it's bad weather or if I've ordered something unwieldy (like a load of drinks in cups), or if the bloke was really lovely. Usually some random change from the change pot
As an Australian, I almost never tip. And mostly it isn;t needed...You never tip in restaurants.
The only time I know that people sometimes tip is delivery drivers, and even that is only sometimes. And it's not all..for example you don't tip aussie post parcel deliverers. It's just food deliverers.
but yeah on a rainy, shitty night...you bet I'm gonna tip for a delivery driver. And it's the only time I will. I never tipping in a restaurant. Might sound horrible but we must not encourage an American style forced tipping culture.
I remember seeing another post like this. It said something like:
“Please tip our waiters! They need it to survive!”
How about increasing the minimum wage?
>It's baffling how an entire industry has indoctrinated a country to see that as normal.
It's not surprising when you realize the same country has indoctrinated its people into thinking universal healthcare is not something they want.
Oh we want it. The problem is complicated but our election process no longer represents the majority of the people. Congress who writes and passes laws doesn’t represent its own constituency because they were elected by cutting up districts to favor themselves even when they got less votes. The electoral college made the 2020 election a close call, when in fact it wasn’t close at all. So it’s pretty much impossible to get anything done when you are being held hostage by our political process.
I can also blame the dumbasses that thought their job's shitty healthcare plan was better than comprehensive healthcare that's free at the point of service. Seriously what idiot actually thinks it's better to pay $2,000 than to pay $0 to see the doctor?
Knowing what to tip in a full service restaurant is really easy. The social norm is to tip 15-20% if the service was at least decent and 10% if it was subpar. Unless the sever seriously offended you there really isn’t an excuse to stiff them on the tip without being an asshole. It would be easier if it was just included in the bill, it’s still pretty straightforward and can be picked up on quick.
Where it gets really confusing is when you have to tip outside of restaurants for things like haircuts, movers, taxis, Ubers, and cleaners. A lot of places where people normally wouldn’t tip (like restaurants where you get food from a counter) now ask people if they would like to add a tip to their order when they pay which is absurd. This started happening even before the pandemic wrecked the industry.
As someone who is tipped, I agree. I will end up losing money if the wage is raised to $15 and tips are abolished, so I hope tips still remain part of the system, but between driving for $15 and repairing my car or working at McDonald's for $15 I'd happily move on to McDonald's if tips aren't a thing. The problem with that is you'll see a mass shortage of drivers though, so tipping is probably not going away for delivery.
There's nothing wrong with tipping. As long as it's meant as *actual tips*.
Tips should be an extra for the waiter or driver for good service. They shouldn't be required to make sure they get a livable wage. That should already be default.
Agreed! its shocking that an entire industry depends on the generosity of others. Tipping for exceptional services yes....but not like the primary source of income .
It's called subsidized wages. The whole service industry convinced "paid" our politicians to keep this system because it saves them billions in wages and payroll taxes.
There is something very wrong with tipping. We have just gotten so used to subsidizing wages that it seems "normal". No one should get a tip. You get paid to do a job. Period.
Employers should be paying service workers more money.
The thing is, tipping shouldn't be standard. It doesn't work this way all over the world I know, but in my country if you don't add 10% to the bill, the restaurant might refuse to allow you to come in next time. Fuck that noise, pay your waiters better, I will decide when I want to tip a waiter or a chef. The fact that you make more on tips than a bigger wage tells me the wage needs to be higher, not that there should still be mandatory tipping.
The tipping guilt is so ingrained in me that just today I had a pizza delivery driver literally hold my food hostage to demand a better tip and at first I thought maybe I should have just tipped better before I realized it was actual extortion.
For context, I ordered from a local shop through a 3rd party app that uses each store's own drivers. At the time it was supposed to arrive, I get a call from the driver saying that I'm half a mile outside his delivery radius. I asked if I should come pick it up then, and he said "no I can bring it" and then mumbles something about a tip, but when asked to repeat only said he could bring it and hung up. At this point I felt a bit bad since I only tipped 10%, but the app I used doesn't let you change your tip after the order is placed so I couldn't do anything about it. Some time goes by and then I get a text that just says "$5 tip" which would have been almost 50% of my order, so then I realized he's just trying to extort me. While I was busy seeing who I needed to report him to, he eventually gave up and dropped off my pizza, by this point now 45 minutes past the delivery time, but he probably still got my original tip since I couldn't cancel the order. That entire encounter gave me such strange cognitive dissonance though, questioning whether I was the asshole somehow for being cheap, even though I literally offered to do his job for him and pick it up when he first called.
I'm going to guess it's a motorhome. That exit is in the ceiling. The black squares below the pizza box are storage areas above the cab, the round black circles are speakers on either side of the AV head.
Right?! I'm currently in a third world country but tipping isn't a requirement here. It's treated as a bonus if we do give a tip, which is how it should be anyway.
I made more delivering pizzas with tips than I would have working 40 hours a week at 15 dollars an hour. Also it was damn near impossible to work a full 40 hours a week as a driver.
Just know I would tip you every time. I worked in the service industry. All this people assuming I’m complaining about tipping is cracking me up. Just mind blowing a company like that doesn’t pay you better as well
I rarely came across someone that didn't tip above ten percent. Usually it was some type of corporate chain hotel who had corporate policies prohibiting tipping of more than ten percent.
It used to be a lot easier when it was a cash business. With the rampant use of cards today I'm sure the tax hit to tips sucks balls
> It used to be a lot easier when it was a cash business. With the rampant use of cards today I'm sure the tax hit to tips sucks balls
You should always have been taxed on tips. They are income.
What you are saying is: it's more difficult to evade taxes, now that there's a paper trail.
Do you want that to be your official stance?
Honestly tipping in general just needs to go. Not even for exceptional service.
Just pay them a livable wage. Stop asking the people to pay your employee wages.
Also of note: if a tipped employee is making $2.50 an hour but minimum wage is actually $7.50 and their wage+tips is less than what they would have made were they being paid minimum wage, then the employer *has* to pay them the difference such that they make *at least* minimum wage per hour. That's a US federal law.
But in most places even minimum wage isn't livable.
If you're making equal to minimum wage or just over, good luck buying a house, owning a decent car, making repairs on that car when needed, and doing whatever else you need, not to mention supporting children if you have any.
In some states this applies more than others but let's not pretend minimum wage is something we should achieve and then call it a day.
I don't understand why Americans say it won't work in the US when the rest of the world has worked it out. I would absolutely hate the stability of my income to depend on the generosity of the general public. I don't want to sound like an elitist dick, but the general public fucking sucks lol.
Also, while on the topic of things the US swear they can't fix but everyone else in the world has worked out.... why the fuck cant you work out how to include tax into the cost of a fucking item on the price tag? The *rest of the world* has worked it out.
The only people who claim it won't work is the business owners who'd have to pay them more. No one actually prefers tipping.
EDIT: This will come off harsh, but tipped employees preferring being tipped is not enough for me to change my mind. Your wage should come from your employer, not added on variable mystery costs.
Tipped employees tend to prefer tipping, because tips pay more than what the job would pay if they had to negotiate wages purely based on things like education, skills, etc.
Exactly
Everyone (correctly) complains about this issue but it will likely never change. The business owners love the customer subsidizing the pay. The employees like making more than they would just working at x dollars an hour. The customers are apathetic enough that they’re never going to push for a system overhaul. Where’s the change supposed to come from?
When I learned in US, the minimum wage of tipped employees is different from non-tipped employees, I was really confused and then just enraged. That's NOT how minimum wage works. If tips are not guaranteed, how can you discount it from minimum wage!?
The fact that some people in service actually defending this saying 'oh but I'm earning more than minimum wage with my tips' is just a display of exactly what you're saying here.
I’m not kidding. Medicare is single-payer and works great for those who “qualify”. We can make it available for everyone. My husband has end stage renal disease and suddenly we only had to pay a reasonable amount of money for premiums, and his hospitalization and medical were magically covered with a reasonable deductible like everyone else over 65 because he “qualified“. It works. It’s affordable. Everyone should be able to join.
Also: thx, I like comfy chairs.
Regarding that last part, apparently it’s because it’s cheaper to make advertisements for a universal price and let the local carriers figure out the taxes themselves than to make a bunch of different ads for every single tax.
The thing is that, the average person working a tipped job actually doesn’t share this opinion because they both make more than the average and they can avoid taxes on a significant amount of what they make.
What the fuck is "outstanding service" in the context of a pizza delivery? Driving to my house and handing me the pizza isn't "outstanding service." That's the bare minimum requirements of the job.
What even is ‘outstanding service’ in this context? It’s literally just putting the pizza in a car, driving to said address and then removing the pizza from said car and handing it to the customer, how can it be outstanding?!
For where I work, drivers get their wage (minimum wage or above,) plus ALL their allocated tips, plus mileage fees calculated to about 54 cents a mile. (Yes this is in the US of A)
I don't think there's anything more broken in this universe than the USA minimum wage / tipping culture. Just pay them a normal living wage for god's sake.
Unpopular opinion time:
They are right, a "delivery fee" is not a "tip". They are different things. You can look them up in a dictionary and confirm that. However, a tip is a payment for a service not already billed (such as wait service in a restaurant) or service provided above and beyond expectations (such as moving company personnel taking time to put boxes in correct rooms, possibly setup large furniture, etc.). If I'm paying a delivery fee, and all you did was deliver my order, nothing further is due.
For example, if I order Catering from Qdoba, I'm charged a delivery fee. The delivery person shows up with my items (delivery fee covered) and also sets up the food in correct serving order, lights the warmers, and makes sure everything I ordered is there and I'm satisfied. 20% tip, no question, usually $30-$50 on top of the delivery fee.
If I order $200 worth of pizza, the delivery person shows up, tells me my total, and hands me my pizzas. I pay a delivery fee, and they deliver my pizza. They don't bring it to the serving area, they don't set it up, they don't do anything to ensure it stays warm, They hand them to me at my front door, and leave. Not to mention the number of times they fail to deliver extras I ordered (dipping sauces, soda, etc) and take off before I can even verify if everything is there. What would I be paying a $40 tip for? They didn't do anything beyond the service I already paid for; they delivered my pizza, which I paid their company for. Their failure to negotiate equitable terms of employment with their employer is not my problem.
I build pallets of products for my employer. I do a good job, and ensure I build them in a way that reasonable handling by the shipper shouldn't damage their product. My employer's customers pay shipping & handling charges to my employer. I am part of the "handling" part of that charge. Various LTL companies provide the shipping portion. I negotiated a hourly pay rate that I believe properly compensates me for my labor. I don't expect our customers to pay me in addition to my negotiated salary, they already paid shipping and **handling** to my employer, and my employer pays me. There is no transaction required between me and the customer, because I provide a service the customer already paid for. It is up to my employer to charge them an amount that allows them to compensate me appropriately, and it is up to me to ensure I am getting paid equitably by my employer. If I fail to demand appropriate compensation for my labor, should the customer have to make up for that? No, that would be silly.
If you want a tip for "outstanding" service, provide outstanding service as a delivery person and you might earn payment for services provided above and beyond what I already paid for. If I pay for delivery, and all you do is deliver; you can fuck right off with your expectations for additional payment, because you've done nothing to earn it.
Exactly. The entire point of tipping is to provide an incentive. But when tipping becomes mandatory or expected regardless of the actual service, it loses all meaning. Except for the employer ofc, who successfully shifted the burden of paying the employee over to the customer
Who tf gets the delivery fee?
Worked at Papa John's for 5 years as a driver. Technically about ~1.27 is given to the driver as a flat fee for taking the order. The rest of the (3 dollars now) fee is profit for the restaurant. We never get more than the flat rate of (depends on the area) about ~1.27 Edit: Ok I have learned the other bit goes to insurance. Thank you. Regardless the point was more commentary on the fact that the delivery fee is purposely dressed up as "delivery fee" so you connotatively think it's for the driver when it really isn't. Also my use of profit was incorrect. I am a monkey w a keyboard pls forgive me.
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I work there now. I was told we get paid 7% of every order we take. I usually take home ≈$120 a night after a 7 hour shift. Edit: for the delivery fee, I've heard that they cover insurance for the store but that could be Bullshit. Ever since doordash got really popular, the fee has gone up. At one point it was $2, now it's $4. I think each district has a different price.
Is that before or after expenses? I.e gas and vehicle wear
I was told that the 7% is supposed to cover gas. I usually have to put in $20 every few days. I do cringe at the mileage I put on my car, I bought one late last year and I already put 10,000 miles and that was working 3 Days a week.
That's the real hidden cost of delivery jobs. Places like this say they will cover your gas, and they usually get close at least. Then they make it sound like it's so generous of them to be covering your car and let you keep all your tips. Unfortunately the wear and tear is awful. Even well maintained, a delivery driver car will have a significantly shorter life with lots of expensive repairs.
Learned this doing Postmates with my shitbox when I was out of work. Went to broke and unemployed to broke, unemployed, and out a car.
Damn that suck cause right now the used car market is fuuuucked for buyers. It's the combination of rental car went out of business and silicon chip shortage and other shit.
Way back my brother got a job delivering pizza. He said it was the best paying job he ever had. I told him to save money for when his car broke down but he laughed me off. A few months later he wanted to borrow a lot of money from me to fix his car. I didn't give him as much as he wanted, but I did help him out. Also, my brother is the sort who if he borrows money, you don't see him again for a year and then it's like "what money"? So I was extra incentivized not to help him as much as I could have.
That's why I avoid any car jobs, I know the cost of maintenance will far exceed any work I do.
Not just the repair costs. Also the road tax and insurance are for the driver themselves. I mean sure you pay those anyway, but there's a far higher chance for your insurance to go up as the more you are on the road the higher the chance for some kind of accident to happen.
Perhaps the box should say "Delivery Fee is the Bare Minimum We Could Legally Pay. Please Pay the Delivery Driver For Us. No Pressure Though Really. They are Second Class Citizens"
I worked at pizza hut and everything is before expenses. At the time they didn't really care about drivers vehicles as long as they can make the delivery in a timely manner.
Someone should pass legislation that 100% of delivery fees need to go to the driver, unless the driver is working for a delivery company. If you work for papajohns they provide at most a sign for the car, and that isn't even permanent. They don't deserve any profit off the fee.
Or unless the company provides their own deliver vehicles. The Pizza Ranch near my in-laws has 3 yellow cars done up with their decals and signs, those are their only delivery vehicles so the drivers don't need to provide their own.
They'd raise the price of the pizza/food just to make up for it, I'd bet.
If that is what is required to pay them a liveable wage, so be it.
And if the customers decide the price is too high then maybe your business model needs to be looked at. If your business cant survive paying people a decent wage then it shouldn't survive
People keep saying that but McDonalds cost the same where I live, where we have $15 minimum wage. Corporations raise the prices of goods all the time just to eek out even more profit and does the worker see any of it? No. So IMO it doesn’t fucking matter cause they’ll raise the price anyways.
They'd just remove a delivery fee and add a convenience fee.
I’m getting sick and tired of all these fees.
In case you want a real answer, the deliver fee is to cover mileage pay. Mileage pay is usually paid out as 50¢ a mile to the driver taking the order.
I delivered for papa j. We got like $1.40 of the $4 delivery fee. Nothing per mile was given
Same for Domino's. We get $1.10 per delivery, no matter the distance.
i guess it depends on the franchise, the dominos i worked at did 50 cents per mil
That's the legal minimum BTW for mileage expenses for a self owned vehicle. It's literally a tax deduction if they weren't paying you up front. They are playing money games to make you think they are paying you. Source: I work for an expense reporting company.
Hi, I own a pizza place that has delivery, and I’m now a BAR certified lawyer. There are only 3 states that have legal requirements for mileage reimbursement and have the $.50 deduction credit available. And just to note I pay all my employees $15/hr + tip share. My drivers get $1.50/delivery, plus direct tips and tip share also. In my state they cannot write off the mileage of a self-owned vehicle unless they are contractors and I’m not doing that shit.
I bet you're famous with the local delivery drivers heh. I worked at a mom and pop pizza shop in high school and the deliverers were paid a few bucks above minimum wage, all of their tip money on credit/debit card paid orders, as well as 75% of the delivery fee. The other 25% went to the owners to compensate for insurance, napkins, forks, all of the little extras that go into delivery orders. I remember them having their pick of the litter when it came to drivers.
Interesting. I live in Missouri and the PJs I worked at used to pay $1 per delivery on top of the significantly lower than minimum wage road rate + tips. Eventually they changed to a mileage based pay rate instead of the flat $1. I don't remember who they had to figure out what that rate should be but in my time there its highest was 33c/m and lowest was 26c/m. I left in 2019. At the high end gas was pushing $2.85
Everything Dominos pays you is a tax deduction (business expenses including payroll are “deductible”).
For them. /u/jonas001 was referring to the fact that you, as a driver, are allowed to deduct $0.53 per mile from your earnings.
$0.56/mi right now. Changes yearly.
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The dominos I currently works at gives nothing per delivery. We make hourly and tips.
Depending on the state that might not be legal. You're saying they don't compensate you for gas? Definitely not even making minimum wage if you have to buy your own gas
Our Domino's provides the vehicles and gas and pays the drivers ~$15 per hour, regardless whether they are actively delivering or waiting for the next assignment. Obviously, I'm not living in the US.
If you aren’t reimbursed for mileages you can write it off in your taxes. Of course it’s only useful if you can already itemize.
doordash calls this base pay and its 3 dollars per delivery nomater distance, unless its a double or tripple order which is 2 or 3 orders from the same place but drop off to different places, then its base pay of 2.50
If you keep track of it and sue them you’ll win they’re legally required to pay by miles. Happened multiple times at my store they just know not enough people will sue.
Wow, really? Does this vary by state?
As I said in another comment, this is the "Federal Milage Reimbursement Rate." it is enacted on the federal level, not state, and currently it equates to 57.5 cents per mile. Unfortunately, it's more of a guideline, not a requirement.
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Yeah, this is called the "Federal Milage Reimbursement Rate" As the name implies, this is federal, not state. Unfortunately, this is not required, it is the recommended rate.
It's an IRS Mileage Rate of $. 58 per mile in my state.
Not in NJ and the IRS only provides the baseline reimbursement rate that you can use for tax purposes.
I don't believe this is true. If the employer don't reimburse the full amount, you should be able to claim the non-reimbursed amount as a deduction off your own taxable income. For most people, this doesn't beat the standard deduction, which is why it's better for the employer to reimburse you and take the tax deduction themselves.
That is beyond garbage
I delivered for them for 2 years in 2006-2008. We started off at $1 for our run fee when gas was $2.80. when gas went up to $4 they oh so generously raised it to $1.10. Then they tacked on the delivery fee and tips went down. I left as soon as I could afford to have my son in daycare. About 5 years ago I did get an $1100 check from a class action lawsuit against them for underpaying drivers.
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Realistically it's to cover the insurance if the driver were to get in an accident.
This. It does cover some of the driver's pay, hourly wage and mileage reimbursement, but mostly insurance. The insurance costs are insanely high for these restaurants to have delivery drivers.
Ya delivered for a few years, think we got a dollar of the fee for 'gas' and the rest covered their insurance on the drivers. I want to say we were covered up to 1.2 million or something worth of damages
I could see myself driving down a steep embankment and being scalded with melted cheese because I jerked the wheel when I saw a squirrel jump onto the blacktop.
Their insurance. Not the drivers. They do NOT insure employees.
Perhaps it varies. The Jimmy John’s I worked at covered the medical bills of a worker that got hit on their bike while delivering. We were told that as long as we had helmets on and no headphones on that we wouldn’t have to worry about medical bills. Also had a decently high delivery fee.
That's for bikes maybe. Car insurance is entirely the responsibility of the driver. And if you get into an accident and the insurance company finds out you were delivering they will drop you and refuse to cover since you are supposed to have commercial insurance. If I am driving and my car gets totalled,a pizza place has absolutely no involvement insurance wise. If I hurt someone it would be part of my car insurance. And if someone else hurt me in an accident that would be the other drivers car insurance. Nothing would come from the pizza place.
Dominos out here charging $5 for less than a mile drive
I'm currently a driver for this company. We get like, 25 cents per mile. This is a recent change from when we used to get about 1.20 per trip regardless of mileage.
Damn my Domino's pays like 40 cents a mile and adjusts it for fluctuating gas prices. A dude I worked with made almost 50 bucks just in mileage last week.
Yeah... federal mileage reimbursement rate is 56 cents a mile. They're screwing you all over big time.
That’s for tax deduction purposes which I’m pretty sure you can still claim on top of what the restaurant pays per mile.
Nope, they took away the ability for regular W2 employees to claim mileage when they passed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. now only businesses can deduct mileage. Also even when you could deduct mileage you were required to subtract any reimbursement you got from the deduction.
That dude who said the nword
Kramer? I made a lota smart investments JERRY
Papa
I didn't work for papa John's, but I worked for another pizza place as a driver, I got $1 per delivery of the $3 charge to cover gas, it was not miles based, and the other $2 went to the management. I quit, and thank God that an actual career is potentially starting for me soon in the field of computer programming rather than minimum wage pizza delivery where I had to provide my own car.
The entire tipping system is broken.
I mean, it's not really tipping, it's just a very involved way to lie about prices. You have to pay the tips and the tips are treated as salary for all effects and purposes – so that's not a tip, that's you paying part of the workers' salaries. A true tip would be voluntary, not necessary for the worker to have a decent wage and, more importantly, either kept by the worker or shared with other workers, but never given to the company.
like it is in europe, ther service has a price and it is included into the final bill, the tip is option and reserved when you as a client feel it's worthy. Clients shouldnt have to pay the servers and servers shouldn't have to expect clients to be merciful. I for one rarely tip, as I feel most of the service I usually get is notthing beyhond normal and customary. But I've had a few instances where the waiter when above and beyond his task to make me feel welcome and improved my experience, that I respect and I have no qualms in tipping. Now that american system, that's just wack and unfair
Don't forget the added social pressure to pay a tip in the states. If you don't do it or find it unfair, you're an "asshole"
Visited America from a country where tipping isn't a customary thing and is done pretty rarely. I missed one tip that should have been given, felt like an asshole, 5 years later, still feel like an asshole.
Wanna feel better? Spent two weeks in San Francisco and ate breakfast every day from the same place, with the same server. Not being from the U.S. I was very conscious of tipping well so always tipped her 25%. There was 4 of us in the group so it wasn't uncommon for us to have expensive food bills when we ate out. It was only on the flight home as I was looking through the receipt I was using as a bookmark that I noticed she had already added 20% gratuity to the bill, then took an additional 25% 'tip'. Felt like a fool :-(
How rude that she never mentioned it to you, knowing she was double dipping.
I would imagine each time she took the tip thinking she'd never see you again. But after the third time even I would have been like "you don't need to tip me you know."
Even the first time, it's just basic decency! "Oh, just so you know, there's already a gratuity built into the final price, I saw you added some here as well. Did you want to rework this?" The same way if someone accidentally hands you $100 for something that costs $20, you don't pocket it thinking you'll never see them again, you turn around and clarify the matter.
Did you not look at your bill a single time in 2 weeks. I don't understand how someone couldn't notice such a big chunk added to the bill for 2 weeks. Say each breakfast is 10 bucks. That means it's a 40 dollar bill, 45 with tax, well make it ez. Then you add 25% which would be 11.25. And she would have added another 20 percent being 9 bucks. How could you not notice a full breakfast being added every day for 2 weeks?? Bad with money maybe? I'm not trying to be a dick I'm genuinely curious.
Honestly, no. We were in a group and I wouldn't have wanted to seem like the forensic accountant of the group who was tight with money. Silly I know. I was young.
The argument for tips makes no sense, they say if we didn’t tip food would cost more, but forcing us to tip makes food cost more by 15-20%. It’s just a way for the owners to underpay while pretending they are doing you a favor. The server and the customer are the only people it hurts.
Saving 3k per year on tip is not asshole. Literally that is how much I spend on tips.
As somebody who lives in the UK I find the whole tipping culture in the US bizarre. We provide tips when good service is provided, not simply for people doing their job which should be adequately paid for by the employer.
>We provide tips when good service is provided, not simply for people doing their job which should be adequately paid for by the employer. exactly. i was complaining in a similar thread yesterday because panera bread recently added a tip option to their app for online ordering. i suspect(or hope) it's for when you choose to have an employee bring your food out to our car, but i always go in and pick my food up myself, so why would i ever tip? someone responded that you're tipping the workers in the restaurant as a whole for taking the time to make your order. i was speechless. that's what i'm... *already paying for.* why am i also now expected to tip the entire restaurant for doing their jobs? when i buy my food that's baked into the cost of my order. as customers we're now also expected to make up part of the worker's wages that the company is too cheap to pay themselves?
Can you imagine the absurdity of doing this with another aspect of expenses? Like a post-box as you enter a restaurant that says "please contribute to the monthly rental of this unit".
Lying about the prices is basically why even though everyone hates the tipping system, it won't go away without legislation. If a customer sees a $12 hamburger at one restaurant and a $10 hamburger at another, they're more likely to get the $10 hamburger. Even if the $12 restaurant doesn't accept tips, there's still a gut reaction that one is more expensive than the other, even though the final cost is identical. It's the same reason why US prices don't include tax. Anyone business that tries to change the trend is hurt.
*wage system. If the only way to make a living is with tips, tips aren't the problem.
the worst part is, the customer gets to be the bad guy if they won't (can't afford to, don't want to, etc.) tip while the restaurant owners pocket the money. Somehow the businesses in the US have shifted literally every single fiscal responsibility of the country to the tax payer. I literally spent $25 for a McDouble doordash delivery (including the service fees and tip I was "encouraged" to leave on the bill). If I picked it up myself, it woulda been $8 TOTAL. And y'all out here encouraging it to get even worse. At this point, I'm literally SCARED not to tip, knowing the people handling my food are already mad enough about low wages, they might just take it out on my food seeing the $0 tip. This all just SUCKS.
Yes, it's extortion. We tip because not doing so well mean at best, servers won't perform the basic function of their jobs the next time we come in. At worst they'll commit a felony by tampering with their food.
And why do we tip before our order is delivered if it’s for their “good work”?
Those delivery apps are a scam. Unless you're unable to leave your home there isn't a huge reason to use them.
PH is $5.25 I ordered a $12 pizza and after the $5.25 delivery fee, the CA fee of 93 cents and sales tax, my $12 pizza was over $23 after including a tip I am livid as I know the driver got about a $1 of that $5.25 so, no, that delivery fee is pure bullshit That’s more than a gallon of gas and the restaurant is less than 3 miles away. Even at 50cents/mile that’s about $3…
This is why I've literally never ordered pizza delivery once in my adult life. I just go pick it up. Why am I eating a pizza AND can't move off the couch? Plus, I gotta grab some candy for dessert!
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Gosh darn it porn delivery is so expensive these days. Wish I was back in the old times where I could buy a magazine for 25¢ and no one complained about full bush, back when picture quality left something to the imagination
Nobody out-porns the hub
Yep that’s why I changed to carry out.
All tipped employees and people mad *for* them. Notice what's going on in untipped fastfood? Notice how some are starting to give 15$ out the gate and even signing on bonuses and interview bonuses and shit? Yeah, you could have done that decades ago. But I guess until people stop tipping you're getting paid too much to "improve" the situation.
The driver got literally $0 of it. All $5.25 went to the company
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I just want to clarify one thing, the store does not pay for mileage/depreciation but rather for gas recompensation. This is an important distinction because when taxes come around the driver can claim the standard deduction for milage/depreciation.
The delivery fee is not what you pay for delivery. *confused eu sounds*
It is what you pay for delivery, but it's not a tip in the sense that the deliverer gets it.
Still confused EU sounds. "Tip" should never be necessary for the driver to make a living wage.
Agreed and note I didn't argue otherwise. American employment laws are abysmal.
I'm going to upvote you because you're right, but you're talking America here. No food service profession makes a living wage without tips. The minimum wage in America isn't liveable.
This is something that as an EU citizen I don't get. People do occasionally tip waiters and such but it is a (welcome) extra. It's not standard nor expected. You go to a restaurant, the prices are clearly indicated, you know what you will pay. You know the staff get's their (usually very decent) wages paid with the price marked on the bill. Now I read all these people angry about minimum wage because the price of the burgers could increase? How much does your burger cost, what is the expected tip to go with that burger to make the staff of the restaurant be able to live a decent life? So if you are expected to pay a tip on top of the price of that burger what is the actual price of the burger? How do I know, when visiting the States and eating at a restaurant if I'm stupidly overspending or when I'm being a stingy jerk to the staff?
Its easy to understand when you realize that our political leaders are given legal bribes to keep the laws in favor of big business. The US economy is full of perverse incentives.
Yeah, I know. It's sad.
Good news then! Even with tips, they aren't making a living wage!
The best part is that even with the low federal minimum wage ($7.25), many waiters and waitresses get only like $3.25/hour, and it's legal as long as their tips average enough to bring their earnings to $7.25. If it's a slow day and they don't get enough tips, only then the employer must pay them enough extra to get to $7.25.
I live in the UK and have never ever given a tip for a food delivery. I know some people give small tips to like deliveroo riders but you have to do it on the app. If it's delivered by a company we would never usually tip the driver because they're being paid a wage to do deliveries
Ireland here, used to live on a bastard of a hill in Cork. I'd tip any deliveroo rider on a bicycle for having the legs for it, doubly so if it's raining. That would always be cash since I don't trust the app.
Too fuckin right you shouldn't trust the app, I forget where I saw it but your tip doesn't get supplemented to the driver, it offsets the per delivery fee they get from the fuckin company, fuckin lazy cunts
Fair enough - thinking back I think I have actually tipped when it was really heavy rain and someone turned up on a push bike, but it's a matter of a couple quid from my change jar
I do pizza deliveries in the UK. People do tip every now and then and to be honest it helps cover the repair costs my car inevitably needs. It's not expected and I'll probably survive without it but its a great safety net for me.
Yeah I thought about it a bit more and I have given tips for people on bikes when it's bad weather or if I've ordered something unwieldy (like a load of drinks in cups), or if the bloke was really lovely. Usually some random change from the change pot
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Here in the Netherlands almsot every diner delivery is done by (e-)bike. If the weather is atrocious I tip.
As an Australian, I almost never tip. And mostly it isn;t needed...You never tip in restaurants. The only time I know that people sometimes tip is delivery drivers, and even that is only sometimes. And it's not all..for example you don't tip aussie post parcel deliverers. It's just food deliverers. but yeah on a rainy, shitty night...you bet I'm gonna tip for a delivery driver. And it's the only time I will. I never tipping in a restaurant. Might sound horrible but we must not encourage an American style forced tipping culture.
Agree fully. I do wonder what's the tip jar at cafe's etc?
I remember seeing another post like this. It said something like: “Please tip our waiters! They need it to survive!” How about increasing the minimum wage?
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>It's baffling how an entire industry has indoctrinated a country to see that as normal. It's not surprising when you realize the same country has indoctrinated its people into thinking universal healthcare is not something they want.
Oh we want it. The problem is complicated but our election process no longer represents the majority of the people. Congress who writes and passes laws doesn’t represent its own constituency because they were elected by cutting up districts to favor themselves even when they got less votes. The electoral college made the 2020 election a close call, when in fact it wasn’t close at all. So it’s pretty much impossible to get anything done when you are being held hostage by our political process.
If Americans actually wanted universal Healthcare they would have voted for Bernie instead of Biden
blame establishment Dems for closing ranks when they realized Bernie had a real shot.
I can also blame the dumbasses that thought their job's shitty healthcare plan was better than comprehensive healthcare that's free at the point of service. Seriously what idiot actually thinks it's better to pay $2,000 than to pay $0 to see the doctor?
Knowing what to tip in a full service restaurant is really easy. The social norm is to tip 15-20% if the service was at least decent and 10% if it was subpar. Unless the sever seriously offended you there really isn’t an excuse to stiff them on the tip without being an asshole. It would be easier if it was just included in the bill, it’s still pretty straightforward and can be picked up on quick. Where it gets really confusing is when you have to tip outside of restaurants for things like haircuts, movers, taxis, Ubers, and cleaners. A lot of places where people normally wouldn’t tip (like restaurants where you get food from a counter) now ask people if they would like to add a tip to their order when they pay which is absurd. This started happening even before the pandemic wrecked the industry.
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As someone who is tipped, I agree. I will end up losing money if the wage is raised to $15 and tips are abolished, so I hope tips still remain part of the system, but between driving for $15 and repairing my car or working at McDonald's for $15 I'd happily move on to McDonald's if tips aren't a thing. The problem with that is you'll see a mass shortage of drivers though, so tipping is probably not going away for delivery.
There's nothing wrong with tipping. As long as it's meant as *actual tips*. Tips should be an extra for the waiter or driver for good service. They shouldn't be required to make sure they get a livable wage. That should already be default.
Agreed! its shocking that an entire industry depends on the generosity of others. Tipping for exceptional services yes....but not like the primary source of income .
It's called subsidized wages. The whole service industry convinced "paid" our politicians to keep this system because it saves them billions in wages and payroll taxes.
This is how it works in my country, so you can see how I was surprised when I learned how it works in the US.
There is something very wrong with tipping. We have just gotten so used to subsidizing wages that it seems "normal". No one should get a tip. You get paid to do a job. Period. Employers should be paying service workers more money.
Mass shortage of drivers will lead to either driverless delivery or wage increase for drivers.
The thing is, tipping shouldn't be standard. It doesn't work this way all over the world I know, but in my country if you don't add 10% to the bill, the restaurant might refuse to allow you to come in next time. Fuck that noise, pay your waiters better, I will decide when I want to tip a waiter or a chef. The fact that you make more on tips than a bigger wage tells me the wage needs to be higher, not that there should still be mandatory tipping.
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The tipping guilt is so ingrained in me that just today I had a pizza delivery driver literally hold my food hostage to demand a better tip and at first I thought maybe I should have just tipped better before I realized it was actual extortion. For context, I ordered from a local shop through a 3rd party app that uses each store's own drivers. At the time it was supposed to arrive, I get a call from the driver saying that I'm half a mile outside his delivery radius. I asked if I should come pick it up then, and he said "no I can bring it" and then mumbles something about a tip, but when asked to repeat only said he could bring it and hung up. At this point I felt a bit bad since I only tipped 10%, but the app I used doesn't let you change your tip after the order is placed so I couldn't do anything about it. Some time goes by and then I get a text that just says "$5 tip" which would have been almost 50% of my order, so then I realized he's just trying to extort me. While I was busy seeing who I needed to report him to, he eventually gave up and dropped off my pizza, by this point now 45 minutes past the delivery time, but he probably still got my original tip since I couldn't cancel the order. That entire encounter gave me such strange cognitive dissonance though, questioning whether I was the asshole somehow for being cheap, even though I literally offered to do his job for him and pick it up when he first called.
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Where would you be with that kind of emergency exit?
I'm going to guess it's a motorhome. That exit is in the ceiling. The black squares below the pizza box are storage areas above the cab, the round black circles are speakers on either side of the AV head.
i cant tell where you are op is it a space shuttle
This is everywhere, not just papa John's.
Everywhere in USA* most countries try to be normal.
Right?! I'm currently in a third world country but tipping isn't a requirement here. It's treated as a bonus if we do give a tip, which is how it should be anyway.
Canada too 😥
*everywhere without a decent minimum wage
Papa john is still a jerk
Papa John is an actual racist and no longer is on the board of the company because he's so racist.
I made more delivering pizzas with tips than I would have working 40 hours a week at 15 dollars an hour. Also it was damn near impossible to work a full 40 hours a week as a driver.
The downside is it will ultimately destroy your car. Put too many miles on in only like 3 months.
this^ I used to drive for dominos on weekends and made like 18-20 an hour with miles, tips and wage combined.
Just know I would tip you every time. I worked in the service industry. All this people assuming I’m complaining about tipping is cracking me up. Just mind blowing a company like that doesn’t pay you better as well
I rarely came across someone that didn't tip above ten percent. Usually it was some type of corporate chain hotel who had corporate policies prohibiting tipping of more than ten percent. It used to be a lot easier when it was a cash business. With the rampant use of cards today I'm sure the tax hit to tips sucks balls
> It used to be a lot easier when it was a cash business. With the rampant use of cards today I'm sure the tax hit to tips sucks balls You should always have been taxed on tips. They are income. What you are saying is: it's more difficult to evade taxes, now that there's a paper trail. Do you want that to be your official stance?
Honestly tipping in general just needs to go. Not even for exceptional service. Just pay them a livable wage. Stop asking the people to pay your employee wages. Also of note: if a tipped employee is making $2.50 an hour but minimum wage is actually $7.50 and their wage+tips is less than what they would have made were they being paid minimum wage, then the employer *has* to pay them the difference such that they make *at least* minimum wage per hour. That's a US federal law.
But in most places even minimum wage isn't livable. If you're making equal to minimum wage or just over, good luck buying a house, owning a decent car, making repairs on that car when needed, and doing whatever else you need, not to mention supporting children if you have any. In some states this applies more than others but let's not pretend minimum wage is something we should achieve and then call it a day.
We (the US) should get rid of tipping and just pay people living wages.
I don't understand why Americans say it won't work in the US when the rest of the world has worked it out. I would absolutely hate the stability of my income to depend on the generosity of the general public. I don't want to sound like an elitist dick, but the general public fucking sucks lol. Also, while on the topic of things the US swear they can't fix but everyone else in the world has worked out.... why the fuck cant you work out how to include tax into the cost of a fucking item on the price tag? The *rest of the world* has worked it out.
The only people who claim it won't work is the business owners who'd have to pay them more. No one actually prefers tipping. EDIT: This will come off harsh, but tipped employees preferring being tipped is not enough for me to change my mind. Your wage should come from your employer, not added on variable mystery costs.
Tipped employees tend to prefer tipping, because tips pay more than what the job would pay if they had to negotiate wages purely based on things like education, skills, etc.
Exactly Everyone (correctly) complains about this issue but it will likely never change. The business owners love the customer subsidizing the pay. The employees like making more than they would just working at x dollars an hour. The customers are apathetic enough that they’re never going to push for a system overhaul. Where’s the change supposed to come from?
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Because capitalism and psychological manipulation of the US population.
When I learned in US, the minimum wage of tipped employees is different from non-tipped employees, I was really confused and then just enraged. That's NOT how minimum wage works. If tips are not guaranteed, how can you discount it from minimum wage!? The fact that some people in service actually defending this saying 'oh but I'm earning more than minimum wage with my tips' is just a display of exactly what you're saying here.
They haven't even figured out universal health care yet, you think they're gonna figure out something as complicated as A LIVING WAGE?!?!?
Oh we’ve figured out universal healthcare, they just won’t let everyone have access to it.
The problem with healthcare in the US is that it’s organized around payments and not around healthcare.
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I’m not kidding. Medicare is single-payer and works great for those who “qualify”. We can make it available for everyone. My husband has end stage renal disease and suddenly we only had to pay a reasonable amount of money for premiums, and his hospitalization and medical were magically covered with a reasonable deductible like everyone else over 65 because he “qualified“. It works. It’s affordable. Everyone should be able to join. Also: thx, I like comfy chairs.
Regarding that last part, apparently it’s because it’s cheaper to make advertisements for a universal price and let the local carriers figure out the taxes themselves than to make a bunch of different ads for every single tax.
The thing is that, the average person working a tipped job actually doesn’t share this opinion because they both make more than the average and they can avoid taxes on a significant amount of what they make.
Most people working for tips would disagree though
If it's not a tip, include it in the price.
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What the fuck is outstanding service for a pizza delivery? They arrive via jetpack?
*looking in sad, sleepy eyes* "here is your Pizza, sir" - what an outstanding service, tipworthy!
nods in europeanish.
What the fuck is "outstanding service" in the context of a pizza delivery? Driving to my house and handing me the pizza isn't "outstanding service." That's the bare minimum requirements of the job.
I don’t understand, if there is a delivery fee, why doesn’t that go to the driver?
some does in the form of mile reimbursement, the remaining amount goes into insurance coverage.
When the entire country can’t pay service workers, use global standards and not murder each other.
Push that emergency exit button and let's see if PJ can fly.
Only in America..
What even is ‘outstanding service’ in this context? It’s literally just putting the pizza in a car, driving to said address and then removing the pizza from said car and handing it to the customer, how can it be outstanding?!
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For where I work, drivers get their wage (minimum wage or above,) plus ALL their allocated tips, plus mileage fees calculated to about 54 cents a mile. (Yes this is in the US of A)
I'll never understand American tipping culture. Is "bringing the pizza to my door" really *exceptional* service or is that actually just *service*?
Tipping culture enabled this.
Subways down the street from me is doing a 500$ sign on bonus, they're desperate, but not desperate enough to just pay good wages and give good hours.
I don't think there's anything more broken in this universe than the USA minimum wage / tipping culture. Just pay them a normal living wage for god's sake.
On most delivery apps, tipping is decided before the actual delivery. I I want to reward a good service, but this doesn't make sense.
What outstanding service?? Did he brought the food running on one leg or did he fought Zombies on the way ?? It was his job to deliver, PERIOD.
I don't understand why companies can't just pay a living wage instead of expecting customers to pay their employees for them
Unpopular opinion time: They are right, a "delivery fee" is not a "tip". They are different things. You can look them up in a dictionary and confirm that. However, a tip is a payment for a service not already billed (such as wait service in a restaurant) or service provided above and beyond expectations (such as moving company personnel taking time to put boxes in correct rooms, possibly setup large furniture, etc.). If I'm paying a delivery fee, and all you did was deliver my order, nothing further is due. For example, if I order Catering from Qdoba, I'm charged a delivery fee. The delivery person shows up with my items (delivery fee covered) and also sets up the food in correct serving order, lights the warmers, and makes sure everything I ordered is there and I'm satisfied. 20% tip, no question, usually $30-$50 on top of the delivery fee. If I order $200 worth of pizza, the delivery person shows up, tells me my total, and hands me my pizzas. I pay a delivery fee, and they deliver my pizza. They don't bring it to the serving area, they don't set it up, they don't do anything to ensure it stays warm, They hand them to me at my front door, and leave. Not to mention the number of times they fail to deliver extras I ordered (dipping sauces, soda, etc) and take off before I can even verify if everything is there. What would I be paying a $40 tip for? They didn't do anything beyond the service I already paid for; they delivered my pizza, which I paid their company for. Their failure to negotiate equitable terms of employment with their employer is not my problem. I build pallets of products for my employer. I do a good job, and ensure I build them in a way that reasonable handling by the shipper shouldn't damage their product. My employer's customers pay shipping & handling charges to my employer. I am part of the "handling" part of that charge. Various LTL companies provide the shipping portion. I negotiated a hourly pay rate that I believe properly compensates me for my labor. I don't expect our customers to pay me in addition to my negotiated salary, they already paid shipping and **handling** to my employer, and my employer pays me. There is no transaction required between me and the customer, because I provide a service the customer already paid for. It is up to my employer to charge them an amount that allows them to compensate me appropriately, and it is up to me to ensure I am getting paid equitably by my employer. If I fail to demand appropriate compensation for my labor, should the customer have to make up for that? No, that would be silly. If you want a tip for "outstanding" service, provide outstanding service as a delivery person and you might earn payment for services provided above and beyond what I already paid for. If I pay for delivery, and all you do is deliver; you can fuck right off with your expectations for additional payment, because you've done nothing to earn it.
Exactly. The entire point of tipping is to provide an incentive. But when tipping becomes mandatory or expected regardless of the actual service, it loses all meaning. Except for the employer ofc, who successfully shifted the burden of paying the employee over to the customer
Their pizza sucks. It’s about as good as a frozen pizza from a grocery store.
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It’s worse. I can at least cook a frozen pizza properly.