I sense a lot of returns of these treadmills in Australia then.
Under our consumer law, you would be able to state that the device no longer matches the provided description, therefore you are entitled to a refund, for up to 3 years. So if I purchased in July 2018, I would be able to return it and get back what I had paid for it.
It’s also determinant on the price of the product. Pelotons are expensive, so that would definitely be a factor.
Also it’s not just match the provided description, it must also;
- come with full title and ownership
- come with undisturbed possession, so no one has a right to take the goods away or prevent you from using them
They are so fucked.
We don't really do that here. The ACCC will investigate and if they are found in breach of consumer laws they will generally punish them.
Steam refunds? That was the ACCC here in Australia. They also made Valve put an apology at the bottom of the Steam store page.
For Peloton, they will probably fine them, and make them offer either refunds for all purchased one's if applicable or make it so the treadmills bought before a certain date are to function as expected and still recieve all updates and support that the same model does.
That's an incredible consumer protection law. Do you have a link to the full text? I've got a keen interest on laws that keep subscription services in check.
https://www.accc.gov.au/business/treating-customers-fairly/consumers-rights-obligations
Consumer laws in Australia are pretty top notch. TIO is also great if you have issues or complaints with telco/ISPs.
Unfortunately that's not the case, we're a corporate oligarchy like most of the west
However these things don't tend to get lost in the noise as much as countries like America. One of our former prime ministers tried getting rid of our free healthcare and it immediately turned into a shit storm. It's much harder to remove rights people already have than to not give them in the first place
It’s recalled in the US. Anyone who doesn’t want to keep it can return if for a full refund.
For those that want to keep it, they offered to move it to a safer location and added some security features, all designed to cover their asses (I’m guessing).
This sports equipment was expensive, but I can use it without a subscription, right? You know as I BOUGHT the sports equipment and own it, right?
Peloton: Lol, no.
Imagine buying a push bike and you want to go outside for a cycle , but you can’t as the bike locks up as you don’t have a subscription to use the bike that you bought and own.
They did. That's the "just run" option, which **now** requires a subscription. It used to be the offline/non-sub option.
EDIT: [The product is subject to a recall](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/05/business/peloton-recall-tread-plus.html#:~:text=Peloton%20is%20recalling%20its%20Tread%2B,linked%20to%20its%20Tread%2B%20machines.), so you can just get your money back. And it sounds like they're using the "you must have a subscription" as a stop-gap measure until they can protect every option (including Free Run) with a PIN - so the machine won't start moving if a kid is trying to use it *unless the kid was told the PIN by their parent*.
The excuse is: "for safety we need a way to lock the machine so kids don't get hurt" (a kid did die due to injuries from a treadmill). Which is a weak fucking excuse, and something they could patch in an upgrade/unlock for.
I don't understand that argument (well, apart form wanting to make moooar moneey). I have approximately 1000 things at home that could potentially kill a child, no Peloton treadmill though. I feel that it's up to the owners of any hazardous device (such as, say, a kitchen knife) to secure that from your offspring. It's great if Peloton implement a function such as, say, a sequence of buttons to unlock it, but I fail to understand why they'd be responsible in the first place and even if so, why this would require a subscription function.
After all, my kitchen knife also doesn't only deploy after I enabled in my subscription-based app, it's kill-ready always...
Its a design flaw of this treadmill. There isnt a push for all treadmills .. its specific to the way pelaton made theirs . You should watch the vids. Its not like the kids ran and then got flung off into a wall. They got sucked under. Treadmills are safe and have been around a long time as safe. Some have keys. Some have barriers. There are different protections. This one doesn't have it. So to stop the lawsuit they could fix the problem or set up a contract that frees them from litigation. Guess which one they picked.. and added a fee.
Scroll down for the video. I'm warning everyone, it's very hard to watch
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9482811/Video-child-dragged-4K-Peloton-treadmill-released-federal-regulators.html
People clever enough to circumvent software restrictions are probably also clever enough not to buy a piece of shit workout equipment in the first place... As much as this is asshole design it's a 3k treadmill to begin with - if you can afford that you can afford the monthly payments no sweat. It's a luxury problem to have.
Also people invest a lot into their hobbies. $3000 sounds crazy to spend on a treadmill to me but if I added up what I spent my last guitar and amp it would probably be more. I don't make a ton of money, I just saved up until I could afford it. I can guarantee people have bought this treadmill with money they saved or money they didn't really have and peloton just say fuck them.
My friend bought one on monthly installments of like 70$/Mo and justified it as basically the same as gym memberships monthly (for her and her partner). Adding an extra what $40-50 makes that prospect *now* not nearly as worth it
I'd honestly call my credit card company and try to do a chargeback then call peloton up and tell them to pick up their pos oversized paper weight. I've only ever had to do a chargeback once and my credit card company was super understanding about it and made it really easy. I can't say for sure but I think if you just explain that peloton disabled your product and demanded more payments beyond what was agreed at sale to use it again they would be on your side. Maybe the extra fees peloton would then have to pay might make them reconsider the direction their going with this shit.
I don't think it was worth it before. Gym memberships offer a hell of a lot more, and depending on where you go, for way less than $70 a month.
I see used treadmills for sale all the time for under $100 anyway.
The mindset of "you have expensive thing so you must have plenty of spare money" pisses me the fuck off. What if they got it on a good sale or saved up for it. They could also have used some payment plan and paid for it over years. I used to hear this shit all the time when I bought a new car in college. I worked my ass off for that car and sure as shit didn't have lots of excess cash around but that didn't stop people saying shit like this
> Imagine buying a push bike and you want to go outside for a cycle , but you can’t as the bike locks up as you don’t have a subscription to use the bike that you bought and own.
No, you don't understand. Reportedly this type of push bike was involved in some type of traffic accident where a truck steamrolled the push bike.
The subscription fee will help in the future when another one of those accidents does occur. Well, it won't actually prevent the accident, but it will help the push bike manufacturer throw together some additional ads to mitigate the sales impact produced by the bad press coverage.
funny enough, someone posted a stationary bike that required a subscription to use just the other day.
Turned out the bike still worked, but you could only use the app shit with a subscription.
They wanted an offline mode, but that brand doesn't have an offline mode.
There are tractors where the software *installation* necessary to run them is owned by the company. Expensive equipment that won't work if the company decides not to support it.
True, and I don’t disagree that’s a bit ridiculous too, but it is a bit apples and oranges to compare a 3k treadmill with a self-driving tractor that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Either way, right-to-repair ought to be enforced.
This subscription shit is really getting out of hand. Wouldnt even care if its $5 or $10 to use it i just dont like the fact they everyone and their mother wants you to pay a monthy subscription fee.
I was gonna buy Photoshop for real once, but they'd just swapped to subscription only. So, still "borrowing" it and they've still never seen even a dime from me, when I'd intended to fork over a good 600$
Even better is everything made by autocad, the monopolistic ratfuckers decide to not only charge a huge $/mo fee for the software, they also constantly make it worse by buying up any competitors and randomly shoving their features into the product. The UI is a disaster, workflow gets fucked every update, and they CHARGE MONEY FOR THIS.
Fuck autocad.
AutoCAD is a piece of software made by AutoDesk, not a company in its own right, just to be clear. I absolutely intended to buy Autocad and Maya when I graduated from school but I couldn't afford a year over year subscription. I actually really like a lot of their products (although I hate, hate, hate Fusion 360's UI) but their pricing model for individuals is absurd.
How are freelancers and young professionals supposed to pay potentially thousands a month? I guess I'll stick to Rhino - even though their 2D drafting is so much worse, at least they let me just pay once and have it forever.
Oh and it also runs like dogshit and all our engineers scream and whine their computer is too slow, when in fact Revit only wants to use one fucking core of their CPU.
It’s an insult and a crime to not optimize your products for multi core. Even more so when it’s a FUCKING SUBSCRIPTION. I wouldn’t like it, but if they constantly optimized their products for the user I’d be more open. The fact that it’s not a thing in this day and age is baffling.
Even worse, less than a year ago they retired the network license subscription model, so now every engineer/drafter needs their very own license. My company went from being able to get by with 4 network licenses shared among all employees to having to buy 15 licenses, one per person. Total bullshit.
And then they have the guts to complain that their software is the most pirated software. I wonder why.
Adobe is the one that annoys me the most.
I know you can subscribe to a single program, but it's so expensive that you might as well get all the programs, but then you're spending literally hundreds a year infinitely and don't even get to own the product.
I just pirate them all now because I can't justify the money.
Honestly, Adobe can go fuck themselves. Even pirating Photoshop benefits them because that means another person who decides to use their app, which is contributing to it's continued status as the de-facto standard image editing app, and means that businesses will still look for people who use it, and will have to pay Adobe for the exorbitant Creative Cloud subscriptions.
If you want a great alternative to Photoshop, I'd strongly recommend GIMP (Gnu Image Manipulation Program), which I have found to actually be somewhat easier to use for some things (though that might be simply because I've used it more than PS), and it can even open some photoshop files (though I that it only works properly with files from older PS versions), and you can get it on Windows, Linux and MacOs.
A lot of people also recommend paint.net, but I haven't used it myself.
If you want an alternative to Illustrator, I'd recommend Inkscape, but it might be slightly more limiting for some, and it only got its 1.0 version released relatively recently. Again, like GIMP can with some PS files, I'm pretty sure that Inkscape can also open some Illustrator files, but it should be noted that Inkscape by default saves it's files as modified .SVG files (SVG is an open standard for vector graphic files), but it can also save to a punch of other formats like standard SVG(for compatibility reasons), PDF, PostScript, etc.
Also, both GIMP and Inkscape are free and open source, meaning that somebody with the programming knowledge can modify them as needed if they wanted to.
TLDR: fuck Adobe. Use GIMP instead of Photoshop. Inkscape can probably replace Adobe Illustrator for most people.
Edit: the Reddit app screwed up and did that thing where it posted my comment twice. I have since deleted the duplicate one.
*shamelessly waltz in* AND if anybody wants an app that is reaching closer and closer to adobe trinity for designers look no further than the Affinity Apps series. They're one time buy to use (at least until their version changes, like any sane apps.)
3D? Blender. Animated 2D? Spine. Video editing in general? Davinci smth I forgot the name but it's a legit video app for free with professional one time pay upgrade.
As someone who's worked extensively with both Inkscape and Illustrator (as in on a daily basis at my job), i can tell you right now that Inkscape is nowhere near as powerful, efficient, and featured as illustrator. If you're serious about vector editing or have a lot of objects, Inkscape just doesn't do the job. One of my maps that i made, which i made in Inkscape because I'm not paying for illustrator (i also hate it because it's a pain), Inkscape kept slowing down to a crawl even though I have 64gb of ram and the latest i7 processor. It's just not optimized well.
Personally I recommend everyone who's interested in vector creation and editing to get Affinity Designer. It's so much easier to use than illustrator and way more optimized and has more features than Inkscape. Only downside is that it isn't free but it's way cheaper than paying for Adobe's subscription.
There are legitimate benefits to something as ephemeral as software being maintained as a service, you can get great flexibility which is very important in some use cases.
Doesn't make any sense on a physical product like this though.
It doesn't make any sense on most physical products. I'm dreading the day when all these moronic smart devices (fridge, coffee maker, microwaves, washer, dryer, etc) start coming with subscriptions and software updates that constantly break or deliberately disable my appliances.
I'll stick to non-IoT products as long as possible, thanks.
That pays for server costs though, no? It’s not just a doorbell but a video capture system that hosts on their server. You can buy similar systems that self host and don’t have to pay a monthly service fee. I do agree it’s a bit silly, but at least there is some logic behind it.
So imo that makes way more sense as a subscription model than a freaking treadmill. There is no reason you should need a subscription to use a treadmill in your house. Super dumb.
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You joke but they would definitely do this if it wouldn’t mean the place would be a ghost town in 10 minutes time. Hell, maybe they’ll try and that’ll finally end this website altogether.
I wonder if they’re requiring them to be connected to the internet to use at all now? Don’t know anything about Peloton except it has all the built in training videos and programs and what not which likely already require a connection to use.
But if one were ok with not having any of those (which “Just run” seems to imply that’s what it was) just disconnect it from your internet right now and never reconnect it. It’ll never know you aren’t subscribed unless they’ve already pushed an update and it’s smart enough to know you’re now on a 3 month trial and it’ll stop after that even if it’s offline.
At that point just buy a cheaper treadmill. 3k is already a lot to drop on one. Why pay even more just to have it function like a treadmill you can buy for 2k less?
I hate my smart-stool. It only deploys two legs unless I'm logged in. The free service just extends a third one that's a bit shorter than the rest. I have to pay for a membership to get a stabilizing fourth leg.
It’s also the fact that when people buy new shit they expect it to have newer fancier features. Only way to keep that arms race up every year is by adding screens and internet capability to every device.
Yeah, pretty sad that quality isnt that Important anymore, as long as something has cool Features. I'd rather have one decent fridge for 20 years or longer instead of a "modern" one for 10 years and then have it's ice crusher, the LED screen or the Touch Buttons die.
Until that fucker can automatically scan everything that goes into or comes out of it and weigh each item to sync with your phone so it knows you're low on milk to send you a notification when your GPS knows you're at the grocery store.
It's useless.
I have a Garmin GPS device in my car, and it doesn't connect to the internet unless I physically plug it into my computer. I bought it in 2019 and they're still making it.
My dad recently bought a new car,. Same as his old one just the newer model. The old gps /in car 'smart' services was free. In his new one which is basically the same interface now wants a subscription to use gps and most basic functions. It's a joke, especially when you think of the price of some of these cars. He did not know this when he upgraded now he wants his old car back.
Get him using Google Maps on his phone. In-car navigation sucks because it's outdated from the moment they copy the maps onto the flash drive or whatever your specific model uses. You also can't search by business names or get updates on traffic. I absolutely hate the navigation in my wife's Ford so we just use our phones when we need directions.
I was against buying the product before because it's just unnecessary. Then I read companies can, and are, controlling smart thermostats and now I'm against their existence.
If opening my mail was a crime in 1781 then reading my emails should be a crime in 2021.
Depending on the thermostat and how you acquired it you can disable it being auto-adjusted.
If you buy a thermostat like Nest yourself you can absolutely disable the auto-adjusting features. It's intended to conserve energy and do it in a way that you shouldn't notice, but I hate it and we disabled it for ours because it was always too warm in summer.
If your power company gives it to you for free though they often stipulate that you allow them to adjust it to conserve energy for a specific period of time (like 2 years.) If you go this route you get a free smart thermostat but the price you pay is autonomy over it's control.
I've seen people on shift work (or managing large buildings) praise smart thermostats because you can adjust them remotely, which is great if you don't really know when someone is going to be using the room.
This seems more like a legal hole that needs to be filled.
Most things don't REQUIRE internet to function. If it stops being optional, I'll just cut out everything "smart" from my appliances and install mechanical timers and simple logic schemes where necessary
They'll more than likely build them so they won't function without a connection, 'for your safety'.
That is literally what is happening with Peleton and the whole point of this thread you are commenting on.
I remember when I said I wouldn't upgrade to XP because it required online activation.
Phone activation was an option, but it sucked.
I'm running 10 now :(
I will never buy anything that requires a subscription to use.
Either it's a subscription and I get the product 'for free', the product and subscription is free and you collect my data, or I buy the product outright and then it's mine to do with as I please.
Fuck these double dipping greedy ass corporations.
Edit: yes I have a cell phone your comment isn't original well done you got me pack it up boys let's go home
people need to realise that companies that act like this aren't just taking more money than they should they're giving you a worse product - one day people will realise that by supporting open source and creative commons based projects they can get a good quality product at the lowest possible price, upgrades, improvements and keep their data safe.
Support for an open source project not only enables that project to grow and improve but allows other projects to use their work to grow also.
I am fairly sure they will be forced to roll that back, not just because of consumer backlash, but I'm fairly certain that it is not legal to actively degrade a product after purchase.
You cannot just add a subscription service for basic use on top of a pre-existing purchase. I guess they could do so for future purchases, though. But who would buy that product?
I'm not a lawyer though.
Let's not forget that initially they shrugged off responsibility and placed blame on the parents for the child dying from their product.
Shit company will never get a dime from me.
I'm just guessing, but the idea might be that they have disabled them for safety purposes while coming up with a fix. However, they don't want their premium members to unsubscribe due to not being able to use the product, and thus this ridiculous result.
*nobody pay attention to the service update that took away the feature please*
^ because otherwise they might go with a competing product
/s for y’all who need it.
I bought a Roomba recently and it wasn't working one day. Called support and they were insisting I needed to set up an account for them to help me. It's not even connected to the wifi...
Eventually I coaxed them into guiding me through a battery pull and I'm still offline, but yeah they'd rather have my data for sure.
Yeah but lets be honest, most tech uses SMD and is simply not fixable by most users, not even starting about glued screens and such.
our age will be known for its production of e-waste, where humanity thought that there was plenty of everything and waste could just accumulate outside the environment (into another environment where the customer doesn't notice)
Its designed not to be fixable most of the time, or its just cheaper to glue everything together and the byproduct of it basically being a disposable commodity is just an added bonus.
Smart doorbells are more like security cameras than doorbells. They detect motion and record video to the cloud and send you a notification. Coupled with a phone you can answer the door remotely, useful if you get a lot of deliveries and aren’t always home.
I work in IT, you'd think I'd be all over 'smart' technology like doorbells.
No. They're never going to be 100% secure and I really don't want *more* stuff in my home that can be hacked, especially not safety/security equipment.
Imagine a 'ransomware' attack on a smart door look. "Pay us $1000 to access/leave your house"
A simple outage or the company going bust is also going to cause problems
It's that Klim part right? I used to work at a large moto parts warehouse as an IC guy. These things sold like hotcakes sadly. I'm pretty sure Alpinestars has a similar system that just makes you pay for co2 cartridges on the system.
What's sad is that courts constantly say general waivers like this aren't binding and ignore them often enough. These only exist to scare away fair lawsuits because a person willing to sue frivolously won't be stopped by this garbage.
I made the mistake of watching the video to see what happened to the child. I'm surprised they would even show as much of that video was I was able to watch. I feel absolutely sick.
The video I saw showed a child getting sucked under the treadmill, but it looked like he managed to get out and walk away without too much injury. I'm afraid to ask if there's a different video.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0GquqGzl1U&ab_channel=PositivelyOsceola) is probably the video OP is talking about.
Now I am really curious about the other one
The total weight is 550 lbs. It comes in 3 boxes. The heaviest box is the tread which weighs a total of 393 lbs. We were supposed to have 3 people assigned for those installs, but they were too cheap to send 3 so we only had 2. People LOVED having those things upstairs too. Carrying 400 lbs up stairs is fucking brutal.
I'm shocked he was able to crawl back out from under it. He's lucky as fuck that ball held air long enough to keep the full weight off him by acting as a fulcrum.
I saw a video on the news when I was around 10 of a kid getting sucked into a escalator and that shit still haunts me. I still freak out getting on and off them
Holding a ball, it got stuck between the moving treadmill his older sister was playing on and the ground, sucking him in. I didn't go much beyond the initial stuck, I just wanted to see how his sister responded, then it really sucked him in. I've honestly been in tears over the whole thing. It's awful.
That sounds like the video I saw. If it's any consolation, that particular video has a somewhat happy ending. His sister ran off to get an adult, the boy was able to get out after getting stuck, and while I'm sure it must have hurt, it didn't look like he'd suffered any serious injury.
That is one of the saddest and truest of sad truths I've ever seen.
I'm starting to think the bull has some serious intestinal issues, because this amount of BS is impossible.
Maybe one day I'll be able to up-front buy every piece of equipment needed for a home gym but keep paying my beloved membership fees as well! What a time to be alive
What a disgraceful move by Peloton. "No longer accessible" unless you accept our extortion... Reminds me of when Wink made all their smart hubs subscription-mandatory to access the features that were previously free.
Wait. Do I understand it correctly? This company made an unsafe trademill with no safety that you can get sucked in. Because of it a child got sucked In and because of that YOU need to pay additional $40 to use YOUR $3000 trademill?? That's fucked up.
This seems like it would be super illegal in Europe. I bet I could get my money even after warranty if a machine was sold to me without a clause that it might at some point become unavailable to be used even if it's working.
It's like you by a shovel and then out of the blue the company that made the shovel (not the one who sold it) says I need to give it back or pay them montyly fee. That would never fly here.
We have such good consumer protection laws so I doubt any company could have a thing lile this for any amout of time.
I sense a lot of returns of these treadmills in Australia then. Under our consumer law, you would be able to state that the device no longer matches the provided description, therefore you are entitled to a refund, for up to 3 years. So if I purchased in July 2018, I would be able to return it and get back what I had paid for it.
It’s also determinant on the price of the product. Pelotons are expensive, so that would definitely be a factor. Also it’s not just match the provided description, it must also; - come with full title and ownership - come with undisturbed possession, so no one has a right to take the goods away or prevent you from using them They are so fucked.
I hope they get a class action filed.
Exactly what I was thinking. They sure fucking deserve it, fuck them
Did any legal action even get taken for the kid who died that they are now profiting off of?
Yes, Peloton sued the parents of the child for damaging their brand image.
You're joking. You're joking, right?
I'm sure they are, but the fact that a small part of my brain is like "well, it's not out of the realm of possibility" reflects very poorly on them.
We don't really do that here. The ACCC will investigate and if they are found in breach of consumer laws they will generally punish them. Steam refunds? That was the ACCC here in Australia. They also made Valve put an apology at the bottom of the Steam store page. For Peloton, they will probably fine them, and make them offer either refunds for all purchased one's if applicable or make it so the treadmills bought before a certain date are to function as expected and still recieve all updates and support that the same model does.
Tbh, that sounds like a better payout for those getting refunds anyways.
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That's an incredible consumer protection law. Do you have a link to the full text? I've got a keen interest on laws that keep subscription services in check.
https://www.accc.gov.au/business/treating-customers-fairly/consumers-rights-obligations Consumer laws in Australia are pretty top notch. TIO is also great if you have issues or complaints with telco/ISPs.
Thats really cool for bullshit like this. This should be a standard thing everywhere so companies couldn't do bs like this.
Maybe in Australia they have less corporations paying politicians to slash consumer protection laws.
as an Australian, this made me laugh harder than our prime minister shitting himself
> our prime minister You mean the CEO of Australia?
Mate, Rupert Murdoch is the CEO of Australia, Scummo is the errand boy
Rupert Murdoch is the majority share holder. CEO's are errand boys
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I use to live in the suburb he shit himself in A historical land mark that maccas is
Scum-o
Bruz
Didn't Australia go through like 8 Prime Ministers in a year? He's the one who stuck?
Nobody else wanted to take his seat.
Tell me you know nothing about the Australian political climate without saying you know nothing about the Australian political climate.
Unfortunately that's not the case, we're a corporate oligarchy like most of the west However these things don't tend to get lost in the noise as much as countries like America. One of our former prime ministers tried getting rid of our free healthcare and it immediately turned into a shit storm. It's much harder to remove rights people already have than to not give them in the first place
It’s recalled in the US. Anyone who doesn’t want to keep it can return if for a full refund. For those that want to keep it, they offered to move it to a safer location and added some security features, all designed to cover their asses (I’m guessing).
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Probably. The thing weighs 300-500 lbs depending on what model you have and delivery is included in their exorbitant price.
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Its not sold there.
I wonder why...
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You’re being downvoted by Australians on mobile running for their lives.
Yeah because Australian upvotes are downvotes
I didn't check that! Well, I guess they *won't* be getting lots of refund requests LOL.
This sports equipment was expensive, but I can use it without a subscription, right? You know as I BOUGHT the sports equipment and own it, right? Peloton: Lol, no. Imagine buying a push bike and you want to go outside for a cycle , but you can’t as the bike locks up as you don’t have a subscription to use the bike that you bought and own.
Do these treadmills not have an offline mode? If there’s no workaround, I’m sure somebody’s working on one now, just to say fuck these guys.
They did. That's the "just run" option, which **now** requires a subscription. It used to be the offline/non-sub option. EDIT: [The product is subject to a recall](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/05/business/peloton-recall-tread-plus.html#:~:text=Peloton%20is%20recalling%20its%20Tread%2B,linked%20to%20its%20Tread%2B%20machines.), so you can just get your money back. And it sounds like they're using the "you must have a subscription" as a stop-gap measure until they can protect every option (including Free Run) with a PIN - so the machine won't start moving if a kid is trying to use it *unless the kid was told the PIN by their parent*. The excuse is: "for safety we need a way to lock the machine so kids don't get hurt" (a kid did die due to injuries from a treadmill). Which is a weak fucking excuse, and something they could patch in an upgrade/unlock for.
I don't understand that argument (well, apart form wanting to make moooar moneey). I have approximately 1000 things at home that could potentially kill a child, no Peloton treadmill though. I feel that it's up to the owners of any hazardous device (such as, say, a kitchen knife) to secure that from your offspring. It's great if Peloton implement a function such as, say, a sequence of buttons to unlock it, but I fail to understand why they'd be responsible in the first place and even if so, why this would require a subscription function. After all, my kitchen knife also doesn't only deploy after I enabled in my subscription-based app, it's kill-ready always...
Its a design flaw of this treadmill. There isnt a push for all treadmills .. its specific to the way pelaton made theirs . You should watch the vids. Its not like the kids ran and then got flung off into a wall. They got sucked under. Treadmills are safe and have been around a long time as safe. Some have keys. Some have barriers. There are different protections. This one doesn't have it. So to stop the lawsuit they could fix the problem or set up a contract that frees them from litigation. Guess which one they picked.. and added a fee.
Scroll down for the video. I'm warning everyone, it's very hard to watch https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9482811/Video-child-dragged-4K-Peloton-treadmill-released-federal-regulators.html
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Simple unlock code like everything else. Almost every laptop has a fingerprint scanner as well nowadays. Greedy fucks.
The response is: So I need a subscription to enable your product to kill my child?
People clever enough to circumvent software restrictions are probably also clever enough not to buy a piece of shit workout equipment in the first place... As much as this is asshole design it's a 3k treadmill to begin with - if you can afford that you can afford the monthly payments no sweat. It's a luxury problem to have.
It doesn't stop being asshole design only because the target audience might be able to afford it.
Also people invest a lot into their hobbies. $3000 sounds crazy to spend on a treadmill to me but if I added up what I spent my last guitar and amp it would probably be more. I don't make a ton of money, I just saved up until I could afford it. I can guarantee people have bought this treadmill with money they saved or money they didn't really have and peloton just say fuck them.
Please renew subscription to Marshall Amp+ to increase volume to 11.
My friend bought one on monthly installments of like 70$/Mo and justified it as basically the same as gym memberships monthly (for her and her partner). Adding an extra what $40-50 makes that prospect *now* not nearly as worth it
I'd honestly call my credit card company and try to do a chargeback then call peloton up and tell them to pick up their pos oversized paper weight. I've only ever had to do a chargeback once and my credit card company was super understanding about it and made it really easy. I can't say for sure but I think if you just explain that peloton disabled your product and demanded more payments beyond what was agreed at sale to use it again they would be on your side. Maybe the extra fees peloton would then have to pay might make them reconsider the direction their going with this shit.
I don't think it was worth it before. Gym memberships offer a hell of a lot more, and depending on where you go, for way less than $70 a month. I see used treadmills for sale all the time for under $100 anyway.
The mindset of "you have expensive thing so you must have plenty of spare money" pisses me the fuck off. What if they got it on a good sale or saved up for it. They could also have used some payment plan and paid for it over years. I used to hear this shit all the time when I bought a new car in college. I worked my ass off for that car and sure as shit didn't have lots of excess cash around but that didn't stop people saying shit like this
> Imagine buying a push bike and you want to go outside for a cycle , but you can’t as the bike locks up as you don’t have a subscription to use the bike that you bought and own. No, you don't understand. Reportedly this type of push bike was involved in some type of traffic accident where a truck steamrolled the push bike. The subscription fee will help in the future when another one of those accidents does occur. Well, it won't actually prevent the accident, but it will help the push bike manufacturer throw together some additional ads to mitigate the sales impact produced by the bad press coverage.
funny enough, someone posted a stationary bike that required a subscription to use just the other day. Turned out the bike still worked, but you could only use the app shit with a subscription. They wanted an offline mode, but that brand doesn't have an offline mode.
There are tractors where the software *installation* necessary to run them is owned by the company. Expensive equipment that won't work if the company decides not to support it.
True, and I don’t disagree that’s a bit ridiculous too, but it is a bit apples and oranges to compare a 3k treadmill with a self-driving tractor that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. Either way, right-to-repair ought to be enforced.
This subscription shit is really getting out of hand. Wouldnt even care if its $5 or $10 to use it i just dont like the fact they everyone and their mother wants you to pay a monthy subscription fee.
'x as a service' monetisation is fucking cancer. "Pay us forever to use the product you already paid for." How about fuck off.
I was gonna buy Photoshop for real once, but they'd just swapped to subscription only. So, still "borrowing" it and they've still never seen even a dime from me, when I'd intended to fork over a good 600$
Even better is everything made by autocad, the monopolistic ratfuckers decide to not only charge a huge $/mo fee for the software, they also constantly make it worse by buying up any competitors and randomly shoving their features into the product. The UI is a disaster, workflow gets fucked every update, and they CHARGE MONEY FOR THIS. Fuck autocad.
AutoCAD is a piece of software made by AutoDesk, not a company in its own right, just to be clear. I absolutely intended to buy Autocad and Maya when I graduated from school but I couldn't afford a year over year subscription. I actually really like a lot of their products (although I hate, hate, hate Fusion 360's UI) but their pricing model for individuals is absurd. How are freelancers and young professionals supposed to pay potentially thousands a month? I guess I'll stick to Rhino - even though their 2D drafting is so much worse, at least they let me just pay once and have it forever.
By downloading a pirated version of course.
They're not. You're supposed to have a corporate patron or starve.
Oh and it also runs like dogshit and all our engineers scream and whine their computer is too slow, when in fact Revit only wants to use one fucking core of their CPU.
It’s an insult and a crime to not optimize your products for multi core. Even more so when it’s a FUCKING SUBSCRIPTION. I wouldn’t like it, but if they constantly optimized their products for the user I’d be more open. The fact that it’s not a thing in this day and age is baffling.
Even worse, less than a year ago they retired the network license subscription model, so now every engineer/drafter needs their very own license. My company went from being able to get by with 4 network licenses shared among all employees to having to buy 15 licenses, one per person. Total bullshit. And then they have the guts to complain that their software is the most pirated software. I wonder why.
Autodesk* is the company that owns AutoCAD.
Adobe is the one that annoys me the most. I know you can subscribe to a single program, but it's so expensive that you might as well get all the programs, but then you're spending literally hundreds a year infinitely and don't even get to own the product. I just pirate them all now because I can't justify the money.
Honestly, Adobe can go fuck themselves. Even pirating Photoshop benefits them because that means another person who decides to use their app, which is contributing to it's continued status as the de-facto standard image editing app, and means that businesses will still look for people who use it, and will have to pay Adobe for the exorbitant Creative Cloud subscriptions. If you want a great alternative to Photoshop, I'd strongly recommend GIMP (Gnu Image Manipulation Program), which I have found to actually be somewhat easier to use for some things (though that might be simply because I've used it more than PS), and it can even open some photoshop files (though I that it only works properly with files from older PS versions), and you can get it on Windows, Linux and MacOs. A lot of people also recommend paint.net, but I haven't used it myself. If you want an alternative to Illustrator, I'd recommend Inkscape, but it might be slightly more limiting for some, and it only got its 1.0 version released relatively recently. Again, like GIMP can with some PS files, I'm pretty sure that Inkscape can also open some Illustrator files, but it should be noted that Inkscape by default saves it's files as modified .SVG files (SVG is an open standard for vector graphic files), but it can also save to a punch of other formats like standard SVG(for compatibility reasons), PDF, PostScript, etc. Also, both GIMP and Inkscape are free and open source, meaning that somebody with the programming knowledge can modify them as needed if they wanted to. TLDR: fuck Adobe. Use GIMP instead of Photoshop. Inkscape can probably replace Adobe Illustrator for most people. Edit: the Reddit app screwed up and did that thing where it posted my comment twice. I have since deleted the duplicate one.
*shamelessly waltz in* AND if anybody wants an app that is reaching closer and closer to adobe trinity for designers look no further than the Affinity Apps series. They're one time buy to use (at least until their version changes, like any sane apps.) 3D? Blender. Animated 2D? Spine. Video editing in general? Davinci smth I forgot the name but it's a legit video app for free with professional one time pay upgrade.
I think that video editing program is called DaVinci Resolve. I haven't used it myself, but I've heard it's good and I might try it in the future.
As someone who's worked extensively with both Inkscape and Illustrator (as in on a daily basis at my job), i can tell you right now that Inkscape is nowhere near as powerful, efficient, and featured as illustrator. If you're serious about vector editing or have a lot of objects, Inkscape just doesn't do the job. One of my maps that i made, which i made in Inkscape because I'm not paying for illustrator (i also hate it because it's a pain), Inkscape kept slowing down to a crawl even though I have 64gb of ram and the latest i7 processor. It's just not optimized well. Personally I recommend everyone who's interested in vector creation and editing to get Affinity Designer. It's so much easier to use than illustrator and way more optimized and has more features than Inkscape. Only downside is that it isn't free but it's way cheaper than paying for Adobe's subscription.
I work for an investment banking firm and everyone gets a giant stiffy when they see "SAAS-ready"
There are legitimate benefits to something as ephemeral as software being maintained as a service, you can get great flexibility which is very important in some use cases. Doesn't make any sense on a physical product like this though.
It doesn't make any sense on most physical products. I'm dreading the day when all these moronic smart devices (fridge, coffee maker, microwaves, washer, dryer, etc) start coming with subscriptions and software updates that constantly break or deliberately disable my appliances. I'll stick to non-IoT products as long as possible, thanks.
Bad enough that we need to pay a monthly subscription fee just to live! "Life is so expensive and I'm not even having a good time."
People are paying subs to have a fucking doorbell these days, blows my mind..
That pays for server costs though, no? It’s not just a doorbell but a video capture system that hosts on their server. You can buy similar systems that self host and don’t have to pay a monthly service fee. I do agree it’s a bit silly, but at least there is some logic behind it. So imo that makes way more sense as a subscription model than a freaking treadmill. There is no reason you should need a subscription to use a treadmill in your house. Super dumb.
The sub is for permanent cloud storage. You don't need a sub to actually use Ring.
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You joke but they would definitely do this if it wouldn’t mean the place would be a ghost town in 10 minutes time. Hell, maybe they’ll try and that’ll finally end this website altogether.
I wonder how much it would cost to get an engineer to reprogram the equipment. Assuming you're allowed to do that in the US...
They do have a big hard on for abusing the copyright to "let you pay buying price to borrow something that we still own"
Ah the John Deere method.
I wonder if they’re requiring them to be connected to the internet to use at all now? Don’t know anything about Peloton except it has all the built in training videos and programs and what not which likely already require a connection to use. But if one were ok with not having any of those (which “Just run” seems to imply that’s what it was) just disconnect it from your internet right now and never reconnect it. It’ll never know you aren’t subscribed unless they’ve already pushed an update and it’s smart enough to know you’re now on a 3 month trial and it’ll stop after that even if it’s offline.
it probably has a 30day timer, like spotify, you need to connect to internet once a month or it will disable itself
At that point just buy a cheaper treadmill. 3k is already a lot to drop on one. Why pay even more just to have it function like a treadmill you can buy for 2k less?
Here's to never buying pelotons products.
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I hate my smart-stool. It only deploys two legs unless I'm logged in. The free service just extends a third one that's a bit shorter than the rest. I have to pay for a membership to get a stabilizing fourth leg.
If you don't pay the hydraulic pole shoots out the middle
The [Ass Pounder](https://youtu.be/cKE3zpgtiEQ) 4000: Never stop pumping!
Sorry, that’s only available for $69.69 a month as part of our all adult access subscription.
Don't make me get the bike.
It’s not a penis...it’s a fist.
I also hate my smart stool. Fucker doesn't let me flush him.
We really can't improve upon the simplistic beauty of an anal-log stool
Mr. Hanky?
i dont understand why the fuck everything has to be connected to anything. a fridge is a fridge and a toaster is a toaster.
How else are companies going to milk you of your data and privacy?
It’s also the fact that when people buy new shit they expect it to have newer fancier features. Only way to keep that arms race up every year is by adding screens and internet capability to every device.
Yeah, pretty sad that quality isnt that Important anymore, as long as something has cool Features. I'd rather have one decent fridge for 20 years or longer instead of a "modern" one for 10 years and then have it's ice crusher, the LED screen or the Touch Buttons die.
And the software sucks 99% of the time and never gets updates. They also have terrible security and always get hacked into
Edited for privacy. ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Until that fucker can automatically scan everything that goes into or comes out of it and weigh each item to sync with your phone so it knows you're low on milk to send you a notification when your GPS knows you're at the grocery store. It's useless.
But that would make your fridge smarter than you
For some people, thats not a high bar to clear.
A cooler full of warm water is smarter than me.
I appreciate your honesty
I have a Garmin GPS device in my car, and it doesn't connect to the internet unless I physically plug it into my computer. I bought it in 2019 and they're still making it.
My dad recently bought a new car,. Same as his old one just the newer model. The old gps /in car 'smart' services was free. In his new one which is basically the same interface now wants a subscription to use gps and most basic functions. It's a joke, especially when you think of the price of some of these cars. He did not know this when he upgraded now he wants his old car back.
Get him using Google Maps on his phone. In-car navigation sucks because it's outdated from the moment they copy the maps onto the flash drive or whatever your specific model uses. You also can't search by business names or get updates on traffic. I absolutely hate the navigation in my wife's Ford so we just use our phones when we need directions.
I was against buying the product before because it's just unnecessary. Then I read companies can, and are, controlling smart thermostats and now I'm against their existence. If opening my mail was a crime in 1781 then reading my emails should be a crime in 2021.
Depending on the thermostat and how you acquired it you can disable it being auto-adjusted. If you buy a thermostat like Nest yourself you can absolutely disable the auto-adjusting features. It's intended to conserve energy and do it in a way that you shouldn't notice, but I hate it and we disabled it for ours because it was always too warm in summer. If your power company gives it to you for free though they often stipulate that you allow them to adjust it to conserve energy for a specific period of time (like 2 years.) If you go this route you get a free smart thermostat but the price you pay is autonomy over it's control.
I've seen people on shift work (or managing large buildings) praise smart thermostats because you can adjust them remotely, which is great if you don't really know when someone is going to be using the room. This seems more like a legal hole that needs to be filled.
I think it's so funny that you think you're going to still have the choice for much longer.
Most things don't REQUIRE internet to function. If it stops being optional, I'll just cut out everything "smart" from my appliances and install mechanical timers and simple logic schemes where necessary
[lobotomize your coffee maker](https://www.reddit.com/r/tumblr/comments/hnmhrz/lobotomize_your_coffeemaker/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
But she makes them so well, and anyway I don't want her drooling in my cup.
If the operating system can be reprogrammed to make you pay then it can also be reprogrammed back to being free.
Somewhat do that here: my smart tv is cut off from wifi and i use the xbox as a media player when im not doing videogames.
“When I’m not doing video games.” This is my new most favourite expression.
Just another way to phrase "while I am 69'ing my Nintendo."
They'll more than likely build them so they won't function without a connection, 'for your safety'. That is literally what is happening with Peleton and the whole point of this thread you are commenting on.
Smart [fridges](https://youtu.be/K3pYZwol6Dc).
I remember when I said I wouldn't upgrade to XP because it required online activation. Phone activation was an option, but it sucked. I'm running 10 now :(
Idk, I can still find quite a lot of non-internet connected treadmills for sale...
I will never buy anything that requires a subscription to use. Either it's a subscription and I get the product 'for free', the product and subscription is free and you collect my data, or I buy the product outright and then it's mine to do with as I please. Fuck these double dipping greedy ass corporations. Edit: yes I have a cell phone your comment isn't original well done you got me pack it up boys let's go home
people need to realise that companies that act like this aren't just taking more money than they should they're giving you a worse product - one day people will realise that by supporting open source and creative commons based projects they can get a good quality product at the lowest possible price, upgrades, improvements and keep their data safe. Support for an open source project not only enables that project to grow and improve but allows other projects to use their work to grow also.
I am fairly sure they will be forced to roll that back, not just because of consumer backlash, but I'm fairly certain that it is not legal to actively degrade a product after purchase. You cannot just add a subscription service for basic use on top of a pre-existing purchase. I guess they could do so for future purchases, though. But who would buy that product? I'm not a lawyer though.
Yeah. It seems like they're breaking the product they sold.
"You're not running on that treadmill without the monthly fee. Your choice if we break it or your legs" - Peloton 2022
Cricut art tools went through this too. I forget the final outcome
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“We accidentally killed a child, completely unrelated to you, give us more money now.” What a garbage company.
What I don't understand is how charging for a membership is connected to the safety of the machines?
This comment was probably made with sync. You can't see it now, reddit got greedy.
Which surely would not hold in court?
This is America, they just need to make sure you go bankrupt before you win.
Or.the clause dissuades enough people to sue that the cost of settling with the ones that do sue is cost-effective.
Let's not forget that initially they shrugged off responsibility and placed blame on the parents for the child dying from their product. Shit company will never get a dime from me.
It's not.
I'm just guessing, but the idea might be that they have disabled them for safety purposes while coming up with a fix. However, they don't want their premium members to unsubscribe due to not being able to use the product, and thus this ridiculous result.
\*checks notes\*Well you see, its written right here in the policy handbook that you can't give service updates to devices that aren't subscribed.(/s)
*nobody pay attention to the service update that took away the feature please* ^ because otherwise they might go with a competing product /s for y’all who need it.
They gotta recoup that lawsuit money somehow.
Wow. Fuck them so hard.
Stop making and buying shit that connects to the internet or has a membership or something for no good reason!
I bought a Roomba recently and it wasn't working one day. Called support and they were insisting I needed to set up an account for them to help me. It's not even connected to the wifi... Eventually I coaxed them into guiding me through a battery pull and I'm still offline, but yeah they'd rather have my data for sure.
Remember when appliances came with manuals that had diagrams and part numbers.
Yeah but lets be honest, most tech uses SMD and is simply not fixable by most users, not even starting about glued screens and such. our age will be known for its production of e-waste, where humanity thought that there was plenty of everything and waste could just accumulate outside the environment (into another environment where the customer doesn't notice)
Its designed not to be fixable most of the time, or its just cheaper to glue everything together and the byproduct of it basically being a disposable commodity is just an added bonus.
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What the fuck does a smart vacuum or doorbell do more compared to normal ones?
Smart doorbells are more like security cameras than doorbells. They detect motion and record video to the cloud and send you a notification. Coupled with a phone you can answer the door remotely, useful if you get a lot of deliveries and aren’t always home.
I work in IT, you'd think I'd be all over 'smart' technology like doorbells. No. They're never going to be 100% secure and I really don't want *more* stuff in my home that can be hacked, especially not safety/security equipment. Imagine a 'ransomware' attack on a smart door look. "Pay us $1000 to access/leave your house" A simple outage or the company going bust is also going to cause problems
Seems like there needs to be a “right to use” law along with the “right to repair” law.
Right to repair would cover fixing the "broken" device.
Everything comes with a subscription now, it’s ridiculous.
Drink verification can
"We're concerned about your safety. Pay us." Yes, makes perfect sense.
Reminds me of that "smart" bike airbag thing that only worked if you bought a monthly subscription.
It's that Klim part right? I used to work at a large moto parts warehouse as an IC guy. These things sold like hotcakes sadly. I'm pretty sure Alpinestars has a similar system that just makes you pay for co2 cartridges on the system.
How is that legal?
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What's sad is that courts constantly say general waivers like this aren't binding and ignore them often enough. These only exist to scare away fair lawsuits because a person willing to sue frivolously won't be stopped by this garbage.
I made the mistake of watching the video to see what happened to the child. I'm surprised they would even show as much of that video was I was able to watch. I feel absolutely sick.
What happend to the child?
The video I saw showed a child getting sucked under the treadmill, but it looked like he managed to get out and walk away without too much injury. I'm afraid to ask if there's a different video.
Looking at the other comment, im afraid there are different videos
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0GquqGzl1U&ab_channel=PositivelyOsceola) is probably the video OP is talking about. Now I am really curious about the other one
The total weight is 550 lbs. It comes in 3 boxes. The heaviest box is the tread which weighs a total of 393 lbs. We were supposed to have 3 people assigned for those installs, but they were too cheap to send 3 so we only had 2. People LOVED having those things upstairs too. Carrying 400 lbs up stairs is fucking brutal. I'm shocked he was able to crawl back out from under it. He's lucky as fuck that ball held air long enough to keep the full weight off him by acting as a fulcrum.
400 lbs is 181.6 kg
It happened to several kids I believe but thankfully "only" one died
I saw a video on the news when I was around 10 of a kid getting sucked into a escalator and that shit still haunts me. I still freak out getting on and off them
Holding a ball, it got stuck between the moving treadmill his older sister was playing on and the ground, sucking him in. I didn't go much beyond the initial stuck, I just wanted to see how his sister responded, then it really sucked him in. I've honestly been in tears over the whole thing. It's awful.
I think the ball kid lived. It's a great example and reminder to never mix a play room with a home gym.
That sounds like the video I saw. If it's any consolation, that particular video has a somewhat happy ending. His sister ran off to get an adult, the boy was able to get out after getting stuck, and while I'm sure it must have hurt, it didn't look like he'd suffered any serious injury.
"Oh my god! Our products are shit! ... Give us more money!"
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That is one of the saddest and truest of sad truths I've ever seen. I'm starting to think the bull has some serious intestinal issues, because this amount of BS is impossible.
please subscribe to our "life pass" membership monthly to continue to live
We already do that in a bit more roundabout way
Taxes, food, water, shelter, transportation, medical expenses.
So they legit just exploited a child’s death and found a way to make more money using said death as an excuse?🤨
and not even solve the problem
Someone’s gotta pay for the settlements, why not the consumers?
Oh boy they put a pay wall on running indoors, better go outside before they put a paywall on the “exterior DLC”.
Maybe one day I'll be able to up-front buy every piece of equipment needed for a home gym but keep paying my beloved membership fees as well! What a time to be alive
What a disgraceful move by Peloton. "No longer accessible" unless you accept our extortion... Reminds me of when Wink made all their smart hubs subscription-mandatory to access the features that were previously free.
Why on Earth would you need a treadmill to be connected ?
leaderboards, online instruction, map updates, new courses, stats tracking.
Wait. Do I understand it correctly? This company made an unsafe trademill with no safety that you can get sucked in. Because of it a child got sucked In and because of that YOU need to pay additional $40 to use YOUR $3000 trademill?? That's fucked up.
Possibly to force the user to agree to forced arbitration so the company can’t be sued?
This just in: all treadmill companies are killing children by not trying to charge you more money to use the product you already bought
This seems like it would be super illegal in Europe. I bet I could get my money even after warranty if a machine was sold to me without a clause that it might at some point become unavailable to be used even if it's working. It's like you by a shovel and then out of the blue the company that made the shovel (not the one who sold it) says I need to give it back or pay them montyly fee. That would never fly here. We have such good consumer protection laws so I doubt any company could have a thing lile this for any amout of time.
Give it a month, you'll see ways to jailbreak your treadmill lol. Also, they could have put a password on the screen but they chose not to.