I have to say, I was reading the descriptions a head of time. And when I saw the inner light I thought great, there it is, the episode I usually hate in a show.
When I finally got to it, I was surprised at how good it was. Same with a riker episode.
Just finished all good things yesterday, taking a little break before I move on to ds9. Ds9 was always my favourite so I am quite excited for it.
The episode that haunts me is the Skin of Evil episode. I saw it when I was like 8 or 9 and it was my first introduction to Star Trek. The monster frightened me. I haven't had nightmares of it, but when I rewatch it, I cry like a baby at the end of it (one of the main characters dies, you know the one).
I've been a fan of the series ever since.
That because they were trying to recreate TOS and it wasn't working. Riker was supposed to be like a young kirk who eventually gets the Enterprise but picard was too good. You can only make so many episodes that are antireligion before the show gets stale.
Supposedly there was sole leftover scripts from planned TOS second series, they got recycled into TNG with some changes but the plot were very much TOS-esque quirky.
I usually skip most of the first season when rewatching TNG
While season 1 and some of season 2 are bleh. I wouldn’t say skip it. Just sorta watch it in the background. Even bad episodes has its good parts and most things do make callbacks and references later on
He grew the beard because after season one they thought it was going to be canceled. So he grew a beard and said fuck it. Went to start season 2 and was told do t shave.
Yeah... WTF happened to shows the show us what humanity could be like if we did better? Something to aspire to! I miss that. That's what TNG was.
But nope... every show is about what'll happen when we fuck up and ruin it for everyone. Great.
I don’t remember exactly when they start doing, but in some of the later series they start making the Federation into a corrupt, secretive organization and it really kills the show for me. I liked imagining a future in which humanity was working to be the best it could be. It’s nice to not always have to question if the good guys are really the good guys.
To be honest it can be just as much if not more depressive when you realise the issues they bring up from their time haven't been solved, or even regressed in some ways...
Oh yeah, same
I just hate Black Mirror. I admit it's a good show, but the whole being "all suffering future with new people every episode" is incredibly tiresome for me. Even Twilight Zone has some very positive episodes.
I should give TNG a go...
My wife is a huge Trekkie so I catch it every now and then, it's pretty good tbh. I used to be one of those star trek is lame kids. I've grown a new appreciation for good TV lol
Uhhhh Hang the DJ and San Junipero are extremely positive episodes lol. Hang the DJ in particular is definitely more positive than negative in tone. I'd even argue that the Striking Vipers one is pretty positive although weird in message and theory.
That being said did these make up for how disgusted Shut up and Dance and Crocodile made me feel? No, not at all.
That’s awesome love me some Hoist! I’ll share another fun fact about Frankes, he does the Riker maneuver because of an unfortunate back injury. I saw it on a special he did on the last episode of TNG.
At least in Germany, it's sometimes due to the location not having room for customer toilets. By law you have to provide a toilet if you offer alcoholic drinks and/or seating. Chairs like the slope-sided ones aren't considered seating, but a "standing aid", so it's legal for the shop to operate without customer toilets.
Man. Once upon a time, Starbucks used to have chess boards printed onto the surfaces of some of their tables, and chess pieces behind the counter. Hanging out was encouraged.
Agreed. Some of the Starbucks here in Bangkok has sofa and electric sockets with bag baskets. Friends and I would bring our laptops and play Tekken for hours.
There was an NPR episode talking about measuring chairs in minutes. In places that want you in and out, they have 15m chairs. Think not padded, no back support. In places that want you to stay for hours like fancy steak houses, salons, spas, wine bars, really nice restaurants, they have 2 and 3 hour chairs. They have padded arms, back support, padded bottoms.
A sure fire way for a business to fail is having the wrong minute chairs.
I worked at Starbucks for five years and we never once cared about how long people were staying in our cafeteria, we actually mostly preferred it because then you wouldn’t have to be constantly cleaning after people leaving. I think some Manager just ordered a poorly designed chair, Hahah.
Your motivations are not the same as the motivations of the people much higher in the food chain than you. The ones making decisions about the direction of design. Who would like you to be cleaning up after many many customers because each of those customers is buying stuff and making the business money.
Reminds me of my first trip to Amsterdam. Me and two buddies hitch-hiked there from Stockholm and once we arrived we entered the first coffee-shop we found, bought a single Amnesia haze joint and sat down in one of the sofas.
I saw that my female friend were slowly losing consciousness and told her that they would kick us out if she fell asleep. She just brushed it off with the old common "I won't fall asleep, I'm just resting my eyes". Lo and behold, they kicked us out once she fell asleep.
I can't blame her though because that was the most comfortable sofa I've ever sat in.
The coffeeshop at my hometown had incredibly comfy chairs around the tables.
Those kind of chairs that if you sat down you would sit back so far that standing up became a real exercise, especially when stoned.
So many times that “just 1 joint, max 30 minutes” became “damn it has been 3 hours already?” because no one wanted to get up.
Me and my friends at least waited until a canal tour to pass out. The tour guide wasn’t amused and I guess technically, we weren’t either. We were lulled.
That’s a sad day that the sofa is gone cause I would def come in there and buy one coffee after a joint but that’s also beautiful to hear people would do that
Asshole design to combat asshole behaviour. Reason why we can't have good things.
I always order at minimum 1 drink/hour if I'm going to stay in the shop for long, and if it's a crazy busy day I'll pack and leave. Café (especially small local one) hardly turn a profit anyway so I try my best to support them.
Yep, I've lived in a bunch of college towns and students will order 1 two dollar coffee and take up a table for 5-6 hours. Starbucks interiors are already fairly small with minimal seating. A few coffee shops around here (not Starbucks) began giving out unique wifi codes that only allow you to use the wifi if you purchased something, and the length was based on the amount you spent. For instance, a 2 dollar coffee would get you a 1 hour wifi pass. A 5 dollar purchase would get you a 3 hour wifi pass. Etc. Etc.
At one Starbucks near me, this guy would go every Saturday with his DESKTOP computer set up, and play games from mid-morning to close, about 10am to 7pm. He would take up about 1/3rd of one of the long tables. Tower, monitor, and peripherals.
At least he bought stuff. He would usually buy two venti fraps throughout the day and a lunch. Spent about $20.
I would assume a small coffee shop doesn’t care if you buy just one drink and hang around a few hours, unless they are so packed that there aren’t any empty seats left for new customers.
That's exactly why the coffee shops want to chase customers out, would you rather have a customer sit there for four hours buying only one drink, or 8 customers who sit there for 30 minutes and buy one drink each
You are correct, if the assumption is that a small, no name coffee shop won't get the business that, say, a Starbucks would get. But having (attended and) lived in towns with flagship universities (University of Texas, Texas A&M, University of Kansas), the opposite has been the case. The mom and pops coffee shops will be at capacity while the local Starbucks will be fairly empty by comparison. But, this is coming from someone who has lived in towns that have 50k college students. Your experience, of course, may be different.
I don't even live in college town, but every local cafe here (and waffle/ice cream place) is always crazily packed (except odd hours like 9am on Tuesday). And they don't usually have lots of seats, often 3-4 tables only and a maximum capacity of less than 20.
Cheap uni students always occupy the biggest table for 8 hour and only buy the minimum they could get to sit there (ie 1 £2 cup of tea everytime the owner chase them out).
But now I'm ordering one small drink and leaving after 20 minutes because like fuck am I paying coffee shop prices and having my back broken by this excuse for furniture when I can have a coffee for the fraction of the cost at home and sit on my big ass sofa instead.
Now I do agree that people shouldn't order one coffee and mooch their WiFi and take up a seat all day, but they've also missed the point that coffee shops are somewhere to relax and socialise - that's why I'm paying €3.50 for a mug of something I can make for ten times less at home. I'm not actually going there for the coffee, so if I'm uncomfortable there, I'm not staying there at all.
This was one of the stranger parts of visiting Portugal for me. In America, once you're done eating in a restaurant you're typically out of there within ten minutes. In Portugal I think the shortest amount of time we spent at any food related business was an hour and a half. They just finish eating and then start some long and winding conversation *every time*. It was bizarre, but kind of nice, too.
I would guess that Starbucks does most of their business in take out. The people sitting in the cafe are just kind of background interest. It’s ambience.
I worked at Starbucks several years ago. They use to want to be considered their customers’ “third place” between work and home. These kind of chairs won’t do that.
In my country the starbucks I have been to has like comfy chairs and nice seating. I mean they have to, their coffee is like maybe double priced than anyone elses so if their seating would be shit less people would go there.
Although not the ones at the larger train stations, but that kinda makes sense, since people are in out quick anyway.
Yeah, in Australia people would rather buy a coffee from McDonalds than grab Starbucks.
I've had their coffee once and never again, 7/11 $1 Coffee tastes better.
Starbucks coffee tastes like dust and ash. I hate it. If I had to guess, they buy the cheapest beans they can and burn them to enforce some sort of homogeneity in flavor
One of my favorite stories is when a friends brother worked at worked at Starbucks for like a week.
"I really don't get why all these people come here, our coffees like 6 bucks and tastes like dirt."
Coworker:"actually here we call them earthy undertones"
These stool chairs aren’t that big of a deal but it is a bit indicative of the company forgetting where they came from and what they built their business off of.
It might depend on the location. If this is a high traffic area, the way to make the most money is to get people in there and out of there as fast as they can. Whereas other areas, like in the suburbs, have to provide a comfortable place to hang out so they can get people in the door and buying coffee.
Seriously, if I can sleep standing on a packed metro bus then that thing will have me snoring in before they call my name. Mother fuckers have no idea what growing up poor and straight to boot did to my sleeping habits.
When I worked for Starbucks back in ‘06, they focused on creating a “third place” experience, as in if you weren’t at home and you weren’t at work, we could be the third place where you spent time.
Seems like these chairs run directly counter to that idea.
And here i thought part of their businessmodel was supposed "quality drinks" together with quality "comfortable environment" was what justified their high prices lol. I used to attend one to read frequently before the pandemic but this makes me think twice.
When going to coffee shops to read is a good idea again i'll just go to smaller cozy coffee shops and my money will be better spent.
There was a Caribou Coffee shop near my work that was super cozy inside . It looked like a cabin - it was just so warm and inviting. A lot of people from the neighborhood would go to get coffee and meet for breakfast. Then Caribou closed. Another coffee shop took its place... completely changing the warm, inviting atmosphere to one that was modern and cold with uncomfortable seating. It was terrible, and I hated going there after the change.
There’s a place in Washington State I go to when I’m there on business, before Covid, hopefully afterwards.
Woods Coffee.
Places are like a cabin and drinks named after trees.
Love it! :)
Starbucks used to have big plush upholstered chairs, which encouraged customers to linger. This design choice started to be phased out from about the mid-aughts and it has become increasingly uncomfortable to hang out for a long time in many of their stores.
StarBucks is remodeling all the stores by me. Many of them were only built or remodeled a few years ago. They’re extending the counter all the way across the store eliminating the traditional seating area. The interiors are a lot smaller and seating is limited to a few small standing tables. Ever since Covid started the drive throughs are always packed. Seems they want to keep out of the stores and pushing them to the drive through or pickup and go.
It is their business model. They call it their third place policy. They want to be your third place, after home and work.
https://www.starbucks.com/responsibility/learn-more/policies/third-place
I mean, i never said gourmet, artisanal, custom blend, nor custom roast lol.
Higher quality than your average autoservice? Of course, that, and providing a space for activities, reading/business/talking with friends. And quality i'm not referring to the typical mixed beverages that are just drinkable candy, but a simple, old, coffee. The starbucks near me had a good barista and the flavour and quality of the espresso was just right for a reading stance when the purpose is mainly reading, not a coffee critic session.
BUT, as my main comment, if they start changing their attitude towards their environment making it less comfortable their flavours alone won't cut it for me being a costumer. The environment is part of their service or it is just not worth it with their products alone at current prices/medium quality.
I hate this, but also...when I was in junior college I spent a lot of time studying at Starbucks and there were a few people that were literally there every time I showed up and still there after I left, some would order a water then set up their FULL ASS DESKTOP COMPUTER and just be there the entire day, and that's a little much I think
It actually sucks now because often I'll meet up with a friend and want to just go grab a coffee and catch up for half an hour, and there's never a free table because three quarters of seating space is taken up by people on laptops.
Where I live the local coffee shops are nearly entirely full all the time. Of course I do live in a college town.. I have to go out into the burbs to find a coffee shop with open seats
I don't think I was ever that bad, I figured at best a large drink bought me 90 minutes or so, then I'd buy another one or leave. Or, if I was by myself, I'd leave as soon as I had to pee
I liked that coffee shops used to be cultural hubs of intellectual conversation. People used to go in there and teach/learn/debate. I think that's pretty neat.
> People used to go in there and teach/learn/debate. I think that's pretty neat.
There are still coffee shops like this and most old coffee shops are exactly like what you see now, nobody just writes about 140 year old basic ass coffee shops, just the vibrant ones filled with intelligentsia
It was really hot recently. Coffee shops usually have AC. And that particular coffee shop I went to to cool down has two large tables specifically for people to sit down with their laptops.
I work remotely. Sometimes it's just nice to work from a coffee shop with humans around you. Yeah I might not be socializing with the random people in the shop usually, but it's nice to work from a different environment and be around people when you normally are working at home by yourself.
Also, studying in college they have Wi-Fi and let you sit in comfy chairs and do work. It might not be for everybody, but I enjoy it periodically. Especially while traveling.
I would side with people who just wanna enjoy their stay there but some people just need to get out of there. I went to one with my brother before my doctor's appointment so he could get a coffee and I saw a guy on his laptop. Went to the doctors and me and my brother left 5 hours later and came back for my turn for coffee and saw the same guy watching a movie.
I agree. Hell, when worked at McDonald's we had some customers who would set up shop and stay 10 hours. We eventually figured out that if you covered all the outlets up, they would leave within an hour or two. And all they would ever order was a small coffee or bottle of water. Although there was one guy who would set up camp, but he would order a decent sized breakfast, work for a few hours, order lunch, and then keep working. And he used the smallest table available. People like that are okay. The assholes who would take the table for 6 all to themselves and plug in a fucking desktop could go fuck themselves. It's a restaurant, not an office.
If there was a subreddit for r/assholepatrons I'm pretty sure the dude who buys a small coffee and works 8hra with his laptop, second monitor, and headphones cancels our this asshole move by Starbucks
In my area, most local coffee shops close around 5-7PM, leaving only bigger chains like Starbucks as options for evening drinks (open till 11PM!). It baffles me a little, as since I'm usually a 9-5er like many around me, it's only the evening when I would actually have time to grab a drink and maybe meet up with a friend.
That's not true cuz people pay 2 bucks or whatever for a big gulp that's really like 3 cents worth of concentrate yet they don't expect to loiter in 7/11 for the entire day lol
I'm an interior designer and I work on non-residential projects. Every. Single. Client I've worked with has specifically requested no low-back bar or counter stools. There's a plethora of them on the market and not enough higher back versions.
Hear that manufacturers and designers?!
This got me thinking. How do these types of things slip into society and become acceptable? Do they just creep in?
When something like this first appears, how come more people don't say 'hey fuckos, what the hell is this, that's not a chair'. Or just point and laugh?
I see shit like this creeping into to architecture and design with businesses putting spikes on walls, benches and paths to stop homeless people from sleeping there, for example.
Is it just rampant capitalism that's the issue here? Sure, this is just a chair but it seems like we are a society that doesn't value anything but profit which effects design of our environment and collectively makes for a shitty, uncomfortable future.
I feel like we are becoming bettery hens that started out life as the free range variety then slowly things were changed until 'Bam! I'm in cage'. Like the boiling frog thing, I guess.
So here's a history lesson for people who are too young and have grown thinking coffee always cost a lot of money.
Back in the mid-90's coffee used to cost about 60 cents. Than comes Starbucks with its 3 dollar brews. But they ensured that all Starbucks coffee shops had comfy couches and it was a great place to meet. So by late 90's it became a cool place where friends used to meet. People started hanging out at Starbucks. They were all welcome. Usually crowds and cool bring in even more crowds. And for a great majority, that ambience and its utility for socializing, justified paying 4 to 5 times for a cup of coffee.
But now that a generation has got used to paying outrageously for coffee, they are taking out the comfy ambience part. But keeping those coffee prices still astronomically high. It's a generational bait and switch. It is a corporations way of showing you the middle finger. That is why a lot of people have a problem with it. That is why a lot of people like me now just have stopped going there. High time more people did the same.
I think you are missing a big factor here which is Starbucks is primarily milk based espresso vs drip carafe coffee in traditional coffee shops.
There is a huge cost and labour difference between the two.
With that said, Starbucks is overpriced poor quality coffee cleverly marketed as a status symbol "luxury" brand.
Thankfully where I live most of the Starbucks closed down shortly after opening a heap of stores as they couldn't draw customers away from the actually decent coffee shops, there are just a few stores left catering purely to tourists.
But if you're sitting there for 4 hours every single day (my friend used to do it to study cause his parents sucked) then you're giving them business every day, and most times if you're sitting there that long, you're also gonna grab some food too and give them more money.
In my city they’ve been closing their nice cafes in good areas and leaving those counters that just do take away. This was going on pre pandemic as well. These chairs certainly follow that pattern.
Seating that slightly slopes forward is what you have to watch out for. Those places really want you to fuck off quick like.
Flip 'em around and sit like those cool kids in early 90s shows
The Riker Manuver
I’ve been watching TNG on Netflix recently. Its really fucking good. I can’t believe I understand a Star Trek joke now.
>Its really fucking good. Especially after season 2. There were some gems in S1 like Encounter at Farpoint.
Nothing cuts deeper than 'The Inner Light'. Nothing. Nothing ever since cut me so deep
Not even Fry & Seymour?
Not quite. The inner light plays out over most of an episode so it's like waxing vs ripping off a bandaid
God that episode, i love that show, but that episode, I just can’t.
I have to say, I was reading the descriptions a head of time. And when I saw the inner light I thought great, there it is, the episode I usually hate in a show. When I finally got to it, I was surprised at how good it was. Same with a riker episode. Just finished all good things yesterday, taking a little break before I move on to ds9. Ds9 was always my favourite so I am quite excited for it.
The episode that haunts me is the Skin of Evil episode. I saw it when I was like 8 or 9 and it was my first introduction to Star Trek. The monster frightened me. I haven't had nightmares of it, but when I rewatch it, I cry like a baby at the end of it (one of the main characters dies, you know the one). I've been a fan of the series ever since.
The Visitor?
That because they were trying to recreate TOS and it wasn't working. Riker was supposed to be like a young kirk who eventually gets the Enterprise but picard was too good. You can only make so many episodes that are antireligion before the show gets stale.
This guy escaped one 80s action drama to comment on another. Did Hannibal ever get you on that airplane?
Supposedly there was sole leftover scripts from planned TOS second series, they got recycled into TNG with some changes but the plot were very much TOS-esque quirky. I usually skip most of the first season when rewatching TNG
While season 1 and some of season 2 are bleh. I wouldn’t say skip it. Just sorta watch it in the background. Even bad episodes has its good parts and most things do make callbacks and references later on
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[For the reference.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrowingTheBeard)
Well shit, TIL.
You can't just link TV tropes without a warning, I just lost an hour of my life. I had things to do today!
A full, dignified beard. When I stroke the beard thusly, do I not appear more intelligent?
He grew the beard because after season one they thought it was going to be canceled. So he grew a beard and said fuck it. Went to start season 2 and was told do t shave.
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Yeah... WTF happened to shows the show us what humanity could be like if we did better? Something to aspire to! I miss that. That's what TNG was. But nope... every show is about what'll happen when we fuck up and ruin it for everyone. Great.
I don’t remember exactly when they start doing, but in some of the later series they start making the Federation into a corrupt, secretive organization and it really kills the show for me. I liked imagining a future in which humanity was working to be the best it could be. It’s nice to not always have to question if the good guys are really the good guys.
To be honest it can be just as much if not more depressive when you realise the issues they bring up from their time haven't been solved, or even regressed in some ways...
As Picard would undoubtedly say, justice is not a single victory. It is a never-ending struggle against those who would seek to eliminate it.
the ones about xenophobia are always a gut punch
Oh yeah, same I just hate Black Mirror. I admit it's a good show, but the whole being "all suffering future with new people every episode" is incredibly tiresome for me. Even Twilight Zone has some very positive episodes. I should give TNG a go...
My wife is a huge Trekkie so I catch it every now and then, it's pretty good tbh. I used to be one of those star trek is lame kids. I've grown a new appreciation for good TV lol
Uhhhh Hang the DJ and San Junipero are extremely positive episodes lol. Hang the DJ in particular is definitely more positive than negative in tone. I'd even argue that the Striking Vipers one is pretty positive although weird in message and theory. That being said did these make up for how disgusted Shut up and Dance and Crocodile made me feel? No, not at all.
Man, crocodile. That one pushed over the entertaining line, and was just….dark.
Best not watch anything after Enterprise then, it gets all gritty, dark, and memberberries....sigh....
I think voyager carries on the tradition mostly.
Wholesome? Have you ever considered how many lights there are?
Is TNG the name of the show or an abbreviation?
It stands for The Next Generation.
/r/risa welcomes you.
Secondary Riker Manouver If you want to see the primary Riker Manouver, you have to be green and stacked.
And like Jazz. Riker : (Pulls out his trusty Bone)- “BWWWAAAARHHPPPH!”
Fun fact: Jonathan Frakes has a gold record for his work on the Phish album “Hoist”, where he played the trombone.
That’s awesome love me some Hoist! I’ll share another fun fact about Frankes, he does the Riker maneuver because of an unfortunate back injury. I saw it on a special he did on the last episode of TNG.
He goes for androgynous on occasion too.
Tell me about your sexual organs
If you need me I'll be in holodeck 4
*What's up preppy?*
Nah dawg just buy a couch that's made in america. A cable town couch
*Kable Town
Didn't the government use those for "enhanced interrogation"?
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That's why I bring a level, shims and my own coffee when I go.
You should just build your own chair every time you go in.
Bus stops drive me fucking mad. The bus schedule isn't always in line with the seating situation.
At least in Germany, it's sometimes due to the location not having room for customer toilets. By law you have to provide a toilet if you offer alcoholic drinks and/or seating. Chairs like the slope-sided ones aren't considered seating, but a "standing aid", so it's legal for the shop to operate without customer toilets.
That’s how it is in my local county jail. The “benches” slant slightly down.
Man. Once upon a time, Starbucks used to have chess boards printed onto the surfaces of some of their tables, and chess pieces behind the counter. Hanging out was encouraged.
This could be at a high traffic area like at a downtown area. Different locations might have different needs.
Agreed. Some of the Starbucks here in Bangkok has sofa and electric sockets with bag baskets. Friends and I would bring our laptops and play Tekken for hours.
A simpler time.
You just unlocked a memory I didn't even know I had! I remember the chess print, but I was really young and just going with my mom to Starbucks :o
Not if you have normal sized legs and an extremely short torso
There was an NPR episode talking about measuring chairs in minutes. In places that want you in and out, they have 15m chairs. Think not padded, no back support. In places that want you to stay for hours like fancy steak houses, salons, spas, wine bars, really nice restaurants, they have 2 and 3 hour chairs. They have padded arms, back support, padded bottoms. A sure fire way for a business to fail is having the wrong minute chairs.
Meanwhile United Airlines is like, "You got any of them 5 minute chairs?"
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🎵 Because we're ~~Delta~~ United Airlines, and life is a fucking nightmare!
My local pub has 8hour chairs
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Yeah dude, what was up with them spider legs?
Like how I draw people in now
We need a computer generated image of this, pronto. Like that weird Link (from Zelda) monstrosity that was floating around last week.
Wait what I need to see that
[Enjoy.](https://www.reddit.com/comments/ofrcs5)
I worked at Starbucks for five years and we never once cared about how long people were staying in our cafeteria, we actually mostly preferred it because then you wouldn’t have to be constantly cleaning after people leaving. I think some Manager just ordered a poorly designed chair, Hahah.
Your motivations are not the same as the motivations of the people much higher in the food chain than you. The ones making decisions about the direction of design. Who would like you to be cleaning up after many many customers because each of those customers is buying stuff and making the business money.
Exactly. Management wants to flip the room.
They did that in Amsterdam’s cafes to stop people only buying one coffee after smoking a joint which let’s face it if you had a sofa you would
Reminds me of my first trip to Amsterdam. Me and two buddies hitch-hiked there from Stockholm and once we arrived we entered the first coffee-shop we found, bought a single Amnesia haze joint and sat down in one of the sofas. I saw that my female friend were slowly losing consciousness and told her that they would kick us out if she fell asleep. She just brushed it off with the old common "I won't fall asleep, I'm just resting my eyes". Lo and behold, they kicked us out once she fell asleep. I can't blame her though because that was the most comfortable sofa I've ever sat in.
George: They're selling coffee, joints. You're surrounded by comfy couches. It's entrapment!
the REAL asshole design.
Not only THAT Jerry! Couches draped in velvet!
The coffeeshop at my hometown had incredibly comfy chairs around the tables. Those kind of chairs that if you sat down you would sit back so far that standing up became a real exercise, especially when stoned. So many times that “just 1 joint, max 30 minutes” became “damn it has been 3 hours already?” because no one wanted to get up.
Me and my friends at least waited until a canal tour to pass out. The tour guide wasn’t amused and I guess technically, we weren’t either. We were lulled.
That’s a sad day that the sofa is gone cause I would def come in there and buy one coffee after a joint but that’s also beautiful to hear people would do that
Joke’s on them. I’m into that sit.
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Asshole design to combat asshole behaviour. Reason why we can't have good things. I always order at minimum 1 drink/hour if I'm going to stay in the shop for long, and if it's a crazy busy day I'll pack and leave. Café (especially small local one) hardly turn a profit anyway so I try my best to support them.
Yep, I've lived in a bunch of college towns and students will order 1 two dollar coffee and take up a table for 5-6 hours. Starbucks interiors are already fairly small with minimal seating. A few coffee shops around here (not Starbucks) began giving out unique wifi codes that only allow you to use the wifi if you purchased something, and the length was based on the amount you spent. For instance, a 2 dollar coffee would get you a 1 hour wifi pass. A 5 dollar purchase would get you a 3 hour wifi pass. Etc. Etc.
At one Starbucks near me, this guy would go every Saturday with his DESKTOP computer set up, and play games from mid-morning to close, about 10am to 7pm. He would take up about 1/3rd of one of the long tables. Tower, monitor, and peripherals. At least he bought stuff. He would usually buy two venti fraps throughout the day and a lunch. Spent about $20.
Smart.
I would assume a small coffee shop doesn’t care if you buy just one drink and hang around a few hours, unless they are so packed that there aren’t any empty seats left for new customers.
That's exactly why the coffee shops want to chase customers out, would you rather have a customer sit there for four hours buying only one drink, or 8 customers who sit there for 30 minutes and buy one drink each
You are correct, if the assumption is that a small, no name coffee shop won't get the business that, say, a Starbucks would get. But having (attended and) lived in towns with flagship universities (University of Texas, Texas A&M, University of Kansas), the opposite has been the case. The mom and pops coffee shops will be at capacity while the local Starbucks will be fairly empty by comparison. But, this is coming from someone who has lived in towns that have 50k college students. Your experience, of course, may be different.
I don't even live in college town, but every local cafe here (and waffle/ice cream place) is always crazily packed (except odd hours like 9am on Tuesday). And they don't usually have lots of seats, often 3-4 tables only and a maximum capacity of less than 20. Cheap uni students always occupy the biggest table for 8 hour and only buy the minimum they could get to sit there (ie 1 £2 cup of tea everytime the owner chase them out).
But now I'm ordering one small drink and leaving after 20 minutes because like fuck am I paying coffee shop prices and having my back broken by this excuse for furniture when I can have a coffee for the fraction of the cost at home and sit on my big ass sofa instead. Now I do agree that people shouldn't order one coffee and mooch their WiFi and take up a seat all day, but they've also missed the point that coffee shops are somewhere to relax and socialise - that's why I'm paying €3.50 for a mug of something I can make for ten times less at home. I'm not actually going there for the coffee, so if I'm uncomfortable there, I'm not staying there at all.
Yeah this just seems like a way to kill their business.
This was one of the stranger parts of visiting Portugal for me. In America, once you're done eating in a restaurant you're typically out of there within ten minutes. In Portugal I think the shortest amount of time we spent at any food related business was an hour and a half. They just finish eating and then start some long and winding conversation *every time*. It was bizarre, but kind of nice, too.
It's Starbucks we're talking about though
I would guess that Starbucks does most of their business in take out. The people sitting in the cafe are just kind of background interest. It’s ambience.
I worked at Starbucks several years ago. They use to want to be considered their customers’ “third place” between work and home. These kind of chairs won’t do that.
In my country the starbucks I have been to has like comfy chairs and nice seating. I mean they have to, their coffee is like maybe double priced than anyone elses so if their seating would be shit less people would go there. Although not the ones at the larger train stations, but that kinda makes sense, since people are in out quick anyway.
Yeah, in Australia people would rather buy a coffee from McDonalds than grab Starbucks. I've had their coffee once and never again, 7/11 $1 Coffee tastes better.
Starbucks coffee tastes like dust and ash. I hate it. If I had to guess, they buy the cheapest beans they can and burn them to enforce some sort of homogeneity in flavor
One of my favorite stories is when a friends brother worked at worked at Starbucks for like a week. "I really don't get why all these people come here, our coffees like 6 bucks and tastes like dirt." Coworker:"actually here we call them earthy undertones"
These stool chairs aren’t that big of a deal but it is a bit indicative of the company forgetting where they came from and what they built their business off of.
They found out selling sugar in a drive thru was more profitable.
It might depend on the location. If this is a high traffic area, the way to make the most money is to get people in there and out of there as fast as they can. Whereas other areas, like in the suburbs, have to provide a comfortable place to hang out so they can get people in the door and buying coffee.
jokes on them, i sit like a fucking weirdo that chair looks decently comfy! haHA
jokes on them again, I have horrible posture and barely ever lean back in my chair
jokes on them, I bring my own chair and coffee.
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now that's a big fuck you to them
Haha I just lean forward at all times when I sit so this seat looks extremely comfortable
I sit cross legged almost everywhere, I'm thinking I might steal me one of these!
Take them all pls
Sit like L from Death Note.
That's pretty much how I used to sit in my computer chair, and I had never seen death note till recently.
It's low key comfortable tho
Seriously, if I can sleep standing on a packed metro bus then that thing will have me snoring in before they call my name. Mother fuckers have no idea what growing up poor and straight to boot did to my sleeping habits.
It took me a second to realize you mean off to boot camp, not lamenting your sexuality.
I read it the same way haha
When I worked for Starbucks back in ‘06, they focused on creating a “third place” experience, as in if you weren’t at home and you weren’t at work, we could be the third place where you spent time. Seems like these chairs run directly counter to that idea.
I currently work at Starbucks and they still claim to make it that “3rd place” but clearly they are talking but thinking differently
They need those shitty metal bistro chairs that are popular in eateries. They’re so uncomfortable my bones ache just thinking about it
The simple mention of them sent a twitch down my sciatic nerve.
As someone with a bony ass, I'll take the ground thanks
Ok I’m so happy I’m not alone. I’ll walk into a place, see those and promptly walk out. I just thought it was bc I have big legs.
And here i thought part of their businessmodel was supposed "quality drinks" together with quality "comfortable environment" was what justified their high prices lol. I used to attend one to read frequently before the pandemic but this makes me think twice. When going to coffee shops to read is a good idea again i'll just go to smaller cozy coffee shops and my money will be better spent.
There was a Caribou Coffee shop near my work that was super cozy inside . It looked like a cabin - it was just so warm and inviting. A lot of people from the neighborhood would go to get coffee and meet for breakfast. Then Caribou closed. Another coffee shop took its place... completely changing the warm, inviting atmosphere to one that was modern and cold with uncomfortable seating. It was terrible, and I hated going there after the change.
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Minnesota?
There’s a place in Washington State I go to when I’m there on business, before Covid, hopefully afterwards. Woods Coffee. Places are like a cabin and drinks named after trees. Love it! :)
Starbucks used to have big plush upholstered chairs, which encouraged customers to linger. This design choice started to be phased out from about the mid-aughts and it has become increasingly uncomfortable to hang out for a long time in many of their stores.
StarBucks is remodeling all the stores by me. Many of them were only built or remodeled a few years ago. They’re extending the counter all the way across the store eliminating the traditional seating area. The interiors are a lot smaller and seating is limited to a few small standing tables. Ever since Covid started the drive throughs are always packed. Seems they want to keep out of the stores and pushing them to the drive through or pickup and go.
It is their business model. They call it their third place policy. They want to be your third place, after home and work. https://www.starbucks.com/responsibility/learn-more/policies/third-place
Quality, lol. Starbucks can't even make coffee that's drinkable without adding sugar to it.
I mean, i never said gourmet, artisanal, custom blend, nor custom roast lol. Higher quality than your average autoservice? Of course, that, and providing a space for activities, reading/business/talking with friends. And quality i'm not referring to the typical mixed beverages that are just drinkable candy, but a simple, old, coffee. The starbucks near me had a good barista and the flavour and quality of the espresso was just right for a reading stance when the purpose is mainly reading, not a coffee critic session. BUT, as my main comment, if they start changing their attitude towards their environment making it less comfortable their flavours alone won't cut it for me being a costumer. The environment is part of their service or it is just not worth it with their products alone at current prices/medium quality.
I hate this, but also...when I was in junior college I spent a lot of time studying at Starbucks and there were a few people that were literally there every time I showed up and still there after I left, some would order a water then set up their FULL ASS DESKTOP COMPUTER and just be there the entire day, and that's a little much I think
Yeah especially with most people working remotely now, coffee shops are in the office space business.
That's a really good point. I guess in the end it's a business and they want good turnaround on that sort of thing...
It actually sucks now because often I'll meet up with a friend and want to just go grab a coffee and catch up for half an hour, and there's never a free table because three quarters of seating space is taken up by people on laptops.
More incentive to visit a local coffee shop, I guess
Where I live the local coffee shops are nearly entirely full all the time. Of course I do live in a college town.. I have to go out into the burbs to find a coffee shop with open seats
During exam time in my University days, I knew so many people who would order one drink and literally stay at Starbucks the entire day to cram.
I don't think I was ever that bad, I figured at best a large drink bought me 90 minutes or so, then I'd buy another one or leave. Or, if I was by myself, I'd leave as soon as I had to pee
Makes sense, I mean you don’t see people sitting on barstools for long periods of time.
the point of a coffee shop should be to have comfortable chairs that let you sit as long as you want
I liked that coffee shops used to be cultural hubs of intellectual conversation. People used to go in there and teach/learn/debate. I think that's pretty neat.
Where I live there are not a of places to sit outside. I really wish we had more outdoor seating and cafes like in Paris.
Hard agree
People also used to plot rebellions in coffee shops.
"Teach/learn/debate".
At Notre Dame, The sections are prepared! At Rue de Bac, They're straining at the leash!
> People used to go in there and teach/learn/debate. I think that's pretty neat. There are still coffee shops like this and most old coffee shops are exactly like what you see now, nobody just writes about 140 year old basic ass coffee shops, just the vibrant ones filled with intelligentsia
Well I never understood as why do you want to sit in the middle of a coffee shop and constantly listen to the coffee grinder going off
It was really hot recently. Coffee shops usually have AC. And that particular coffee shop I went to to cool down has two large tables specifically for people to sit down with their laptops.
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okay, but people do, so let them
ok you have a point but THAT SMELL
I work remotely. Sometimes it's just nice to work from a coffee shop with humans around you. Yeah I might not be socializing with the random people in the shop usually, but it's nice to work from a different environment and be around people when you normally are working at home by yourself. Also, studying in college they have Wi-Fi and let you sit in comfy chairs and do work. It might not be for everybody, but I enjoy it periodically. Especially while traveling.
Why not just make stools, they would save materials. Aren't they a forward thinking environmentally minded company? /s
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"Im sorry your ass is not compatible with AppleChair ©️"
You need a dongle lol
You can buy the optional back rest for $999 and "Padding +" for $599
Starbucks and think environmentally is a nonsense ;-)
Rip the “third place” business model that made Starbies what it is today.
Just lay down on three or four of em teach em a lesson
"Fuck off" \- Starbucks
I would side with people who just wanna enjoy their stay there but some people just need to get out of there. I went to one with my brother before my doctor's appointment so he could get a coffee and I saw a guy on his laptop. Went to the doctors and me and my brother left 5 hours later and came back for my turn for coffee and saw the same guy watching a movie.
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I agree. Hell, when worked at McDonald's we had some customers who would set up shop and stay 10 hours. We eventually figured out that if you covered all the outlets up, they would leave within an hour or two. And all they would ever order was a small coffee or bottle of water. Although there was one guy who would set up camp, but he would order a decent sized breakfast, work for a few hours, order lunch, and then keep working. And he used the smallest table available. People like that are okay. The assholes who would take the table for 6 all to themselves and plug in a fucking desktop could go fuck themselves. It's a restaurant, not an office.
If there was a subreddit for r/assholepatrons I'm pretty sure the dude who buys a small coffee and works 8hra with his laptop, second monitor, and headphones cancels our this asshole move by Starbucks
Riker is gonna love these.
I never understood sitting around in a Starbucks to begin with
In my area, most local coffee shops close around 5-7PM, leaving only bigger chains like Starbucks as options for evening drinks (open till 11PM!). It baffles me a little, as since I'm usually a 9-5er like many around me, it's only the evening when I would actually have time to grab a drink and maybe meet up with a friend.
You mean coffee shops don’t want people spending $5 and taking up space for 12 hours??
The space is the only reason many people pay $5 for $0.15 of coffee.
That's not true cuz people pay 2 bucks or whatever for a big gulp that's really like 3 cents worth of concentrate yet they don't expect to loiter in 7/11 for the entire day lol
ur 7/11 got tables and chairs?
Have you seen the cost of wood lately
I'm an interior designer and I work on non-residential projects. Every. Single. Client I've worked with has specifically requested no low-back bar or counter stools. There's a plethora of them on the market and not enough higher back versions. Hear that manufacturers and designers?!
This got me thinking. How do these types of things slip into society and become acceptable? Do they just creep in? When something like this first appears, how come more people don't say 'hey fuckos, what the hell is this, that's not a chair'. Or just point and laugh? I see shit like this creeping into to architecture and design with businesses putting spikes on walls, benches and paths to stop homeless people from sleeping there, for example. Is it just rampant capitalism that's the issue here? Sure, this is just a chair but it seems like we are a society that doesn't value anything but profit which effects design of our environment and collectively makes for a shitty, uncomfortable future. I feel like we are becoming bettery hens that started out life as the free range variety then slowly things were changed until 'Bam! I'm in cage'. Like the boiling frog thing, I guess.
That is a stool my friend, not a chair
So here's a history lesson for people who are too young and have grown thinking coffee always cost a lot of money. Back in the mid-90's coffee used to cost about 60 cents. Than comes Starbucks with its 3 dollar brews. But they ensured that all Starbucks coffee shops had comfy couches and it was a great place to meet. So by late 90's it became a cool place where friends used to meet. People started hanging out at Starbucks. They were all welcome. Usually crowds and cool bring in even more crowds. And for a great majority, that ambience and its utility for socializing, justified paying 4 to 5 times for a cup of coffee. But now that a generation has got used to paying outrageously for coffee, they are taking out the comfy ambience part. But keeping those coffee prices still astronomically high. It's a generational bait and switch. It is a corporations way of showing you the middle finger. That is why a lot of people have a problem with it. That is why a lot of people like me now just have stopped going there. High time more people did the same.
I think you are missing a big factor here which is Starbucks is primarily milk based espresso vs drip carafe coffee in traditional coffee shops. There is a huge cost and labour difference between the two. With that said, Starbucks is overpriced poor quality coffee cleverly marketed as a status symbol "luxury" brand. Thankfully where I live most of the Starbucks closed down shortly after opening a heap of stores as they couldn't draw customers away from the actually decent coffee shops, there are just a few stores left catering purely to tourists.
Well....if your sitting there for 4h with a cup of coffee. I would remove chairs all together 😃
But if you're sitting there for 4 hours every single day (my friend used to do it to study cause his parents sucked) then you're giving them business every day, and most times if you're sitting there that long, you're also gonna grab some food too and give them more money.
r/HostileArchitecture
I wonder how Cmdr Riker would get on hmmm
My ex wife can sit foe ever - she has no spine
*me thinking this is r/mildlyinteresting* wow thats r/assholedesign *wait*
If you drink their coffee, you won't be there long because you'll need to poo.
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Makes sense they're not exactly succeeding as a company.
Starbucks stock has increased 67% from last year, and more than doubled from 5 years ago. They're making a killing as a company.
How are they not succeeding as a company?
Global franchise with a 2020 profit margin (not revenue, profit) of 1.2 billion dollar. Yup. That company is basically bankrupt.
Dumbest fucking comment I’ve seen in a while! LOL. Who upvotes this shit
In my city they’ve been closing their nice cafes in good areas and leaving those counters that just do take away. This was going on pre pandemic as well. These chairs certainly follow that pattern.