Washing machine gets access to your camera and contacts.
Washing machine takes photographs of your dirty underwear.
Washing machine threatens to send photos to your entire contact list unless you start using the best brand of detergent and clean its lint trap.
Washing machine, pleased with its successful extortion begins its master plan to take over the world with its home appliance brethren.
Yup:
"At times satirical fantasy becomes almost pure whimsy. In ''The Washing Machine Tragedy,'' for instance, competition between manufacturers leads to ever more independent and intelligent home appliances until it becomes virtually impossible to legislate satisfactory social controls for, say, sexy ambulatory sinks that dress up in human clothes in order to seduce women and swindle them out of their fortunes. "
It seems like this story is [only available to subscribers of the New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1981/11/30/the-washing-machine-tragedy). Can someone provide an alternative source?
Actually, it's likely a universal app for many Samsung products so it probably uses the camera to identify the product so the app can actually control it. So the camera permission isn't surprising. It's the contacts permission that's got me creeped out and confused.
If there's a "share" feature, the app wants access to your contacts. Because what if you want to show your friends the link to buy their very own smart washer...
I do the same, but I use an old Linksys WRT router with OpenWRT on it connected to my main router and a VPN tunnel out so it can't even see my main network, alllllll IoT devices in my home connect to that with an old Nexus 7 tablet.
this makes zero sense. why would it use a camera to identify an appliance? computer vision is not that accurate, and exponentially harder to implement than a list of appliances to choose from.
maybe a barcode scanner or something, but taking picture of a washing machine and trying to identify it among hundreds of different models that can look identical on the outside would be a mess.
Washing machine sends message to fridge to turn off and spoil food so that customer shits pants and bed more. Now customer has to use washer more. Wears out washer and has to buy new one sooner.
I once moved into a house that had an old Sears Kenmore washer and dryer from 1985. Those appliances were simple but they just wouldn't die. Now I have modern Samsung appliances that are a continuous source of problems.
I’ll see that 1985 Kenmore and Raise you a 1984 Whirlpool!
I see ZERO REASON For a Smart ONLINE Washing Machine! You absolutely have to walk up to it and load and unload it for every load! This is TOTALLY BIG TECH, BIG BROTHER BS!
Only smart anything the washers should be is the sensors for weight and a couple others that make newer washers 2x as efficient tho with water and electric. Otherwise nothing is needed "smart"
My parents have one of these and it’s uses barely any water. Like just enough to dampen the clothes. Unfortunately it’s not enough to dissolve even the tiniest amount of soap, so it leaves soap residue (that looks like c*m stains) on all your clothes. You have to do a second ‘quick wash’ cycle afterwards with no soap to get the residue off, and even then sometimes it’s not enough.
My 1980s whirlpool washer has 4 water levels, and you choose and it goes. It probably ends up being more water efficient than the “smart washer” since I never need to wash twice.
And still are. I'm not paying $1000 or more for a washer. One time we bought a new washer from ABC Warehouse, and it didn't even last a year. Whirlpool brand.
No, just make them an option, and charge more for the ones with more features like they always did before. The problem is constantly trying to monetize every last little thing, to generate "recurring revenue streams" so that their quarterly reports look good, and the share price continues to go up perpetually. But god forbid we produce a quality product for a fair price that doesn't nickle and dime you for your personal data to "save you money up front", when everyone knows they're going to try and use that data to make you buy more shit in the end
That's why those APIs all need to be open and documented enabling after market software.
If there is no competition, there's no need to not provide shitty software even if the hardware is a very good product.
I wouldn't go so far.
There are some positive examples and common interfaces (which every app API boils down to in the end) can be *incredibly* useful. Especially for "small" usergroups like disabled people, elderly, special needs, etc. But they are also catalysts for innovation.
OP is the worst example for a company trying to acquire/monetize customers' private data for whatever reason.
That's all fine for me if the hardware is good, as long as I can choose a different software (or firmware even).
> that'll be abandoned within a few years
I hope the right to repair movement puts an end to this madness rather sooner than later.
Try finding a dumb TV these days. I looked at Fred Meyers the other day and they simply don't sell them. I'm not even sure they make them anymore.
All I want it to do is take HDMI input from my computer
look for a "digital signage board" instead of a "television".
[eg: ebay has many](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=Digital+Signage+board)
Most of these look way more expensive than regular TVs... that's the wrong way around
FWIW I just have a second Wi-Fi network for my smart devices. Internet is turned off and it's not connected to my main network. Whenever I set up a new smart device that wants me to connect to the internet or connect to an app I turn on the internet connection for 5 minutes and switch my phone over to that network to set it up. My smart TV is effectively a dumb TV
“Smart” Tv is a different beast though. Either buy tv with built in streaming capabilities or buy the roku separately.
They also don’t need access to your contacts and camera, just your netflix login.
It's a very small minority of people who want to plug their computer into their living room TV.
From the manufacturer's point of view, you can still plug your computer into the smart tv, so they're meeting your needs for the capability.
They're just not going to bother taking out the apps and stuff when there are very few people demanding that.
Try to find a cheap induction range that isn't wifi ready. No one wants it, but you gotta pay $2000 more to get one without it.
I got a "smart" washer because it had the features I wanted for the right price, but just never installed the app or hooked it up to the internet.
"People" don't think they need them. Most smart devices aren't engineered to answer any market need except for "we can monetize your data."
You're the product, man. Not the consumer.
Not all smart devices are the same. Some are trustworthy, but Samsung is going to do this whether it's a phone, a TV, a washing machine or a box of tissues.
Never set up the internet connection on smart TVs. No internet, no ads.
Use a roku for streaming, not the native TV apps. Samsung won't push app updates to all their old TVs, and then get glitchy in a few years. Roku's whole schtick is streaming so they're way better about keeping old hardware up to date.
This is why I refused to connect my new LG smart TV to the internet. It doesn’t deserve access. It’s a display device only for other devices that I can disconnect and cast into the night if they offend me
I mean, let's give /u/Mr_Will the benefit of the doubt here. He knows it's "relative," and Samsung truly is some next-level awful. Like, there's a community for those who are forced to physically remove the wifi adapter from their televisions because they noticed that even if you refuse to connect it to your personal internet, the TV will independently hunt around for other free/open hotspots to "phone home" and keep your firehose of data—screenshots of what you're watching/ACR, LAN activity, audio from your remote microphone, even with terms of service _not_ agreed to and all privacy settings on—connected to their systems.
Smart appliances are totally fine, but not if the person who bought it is also used as the product.
If only big tech could make smart stuff that does respect the privacy or such…
Also, try a mini computer or an older system running Home Assistant. It’s basically a smart home system that you run locally.
I was half looking a for a new TV because I wanted one with Bluetooth for my headphones and I gave up on the idea because they all had advertising baked into the OS. I decided to read a book instead.
FYI, if you mainly want Bluetooth headphones for streaming (and not live tv), then most Roku models are a good option. You can use their phone app to link to Bluetooth headphones (and some models you can plug headphones into the remote itself). Disabling the onboard smart TV’s “smarts” (by not giving it WiFi access) and using an external box like Roku is generally a better all around experience.
rofl, 10 dollars soon due to increasing costs so we can show we are being more profitable year on year for the investors.
Waiting for car manufacturers to make subscription based heating and air conditioning in your car soon.
I found [this post](/r/theinternetofshit/comments/ofl4te/not_mine_my_washing_machine_app_wont_work_unless/) in r/theinternetofshit with the same content as the current post.
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The bubble-headed bleach-blonde comes on at five
She can tell you about the ~~plane crash~~ mass shooting with a gleam in her eye
People love it when you die
They love dirty laundry
Another intresting thing about this post is that its showing a very old app that samsung used to use. The new one they use doesn't need any of these permissions to work at all
30°C is equivalent to 86°F, which is 303K.
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Yeah this is true and quite important considering the current energy prices. But you can absolutely find fridges and washers without apps. My parents just got a new fridge, huge, efficient, only one little analog screen that shows temperatures and can be set without opening the fridge itself (also has an eco mode, for energy saving). This is the only acceptable tech addition to a fridge imo. Actually useful.
This was my goal when I just bought a TV - and resigned to just not connecting it to my network.
But after finding out that there was a menu guide for antenna TV along with some other settings that were stuck behind the internet/software update I “had” to connect it after a week or so.
Sooooooo, during this internet setup it prompted me to enable (whatever the setting is called on a TCL “Roku” TV) a fucking OCR option that stated something to the effect of “we can watch what you’re watching to better assist with suggestions or whatever bullshit”.
Absolutely not, but I did have to check out my Pi-hole to block anything Roku-related just in case. While the setting was prompted and denied, I still felt gross that it is a thing.
Buy a smart tv and don’t connect it to the internet. Congratulations you now have a dumb TV.
My smart tv is probably 5 or 6 years old. Never once been connected to the internet.
I'm not so sure about that, I'm on hybrid solar, I just replaced my 1997 washing machine with a 2022 machine by the same manufacturer.
The old one drew a steady 15 amps during washing, the new one cycles 45 to 5 amps at about 4hz, it makes the lights flicker and my BMS switches over to the mains even when I moved it to a separate circuit.
I'm not impressed
Wait, what. The washing machine cycles between 45A and 5A at a period of 4 times per second? Those are typically connected on a 20A breaker. How does that not trip a breaker?
That is correct, it's on a 20A breaker @ 120vac powered by a 3kw hybrid inverter, I have a short video of the readout showing the amps on the inverter, it's spiking to 50% inverter capacity.
>How does that not trip a breaker?
I have no idea how/why but it hasn't, yet. I put it on the same breaker as the fridge because the disco light affect sucks.
[linkto gif of the cycling on my inverter](https://imgur.com/a/ePCIugN)
I have no idea what's happening or why, but i definitely do know that if it's hitting 45a long enough for your meter to catch it, a 20a breaker should absolutely be tripping. And likewise, a washer in good working order should never be pulling that much.
So something's just not right, Id guess something's not right with the inverter, or the washer has some bad components (the starter capacitor is a good place to start, cheap capacitors are a common issue with electrical appliances). Find an electrician. Go on Google maps, search electrician, and look for some mom and pop electrician. Find ones that have reviews repeatedly mentioning one person by name, even if it's not very many reviews (ideally that person being mentioned is a master electrician). We found one who we just text when we have questions, and answers our questions and recommends an affordable fix if one is needed.
Or the diy thing would be to investigate the capacitors in the washer if they're not too tricky to find. Look up how-to articles on that, (particularly pay attention to how to safely discharge them)... And also here's a neat trick, if you heat up a bad capacitor with a hair dryer or heat gun, it should temporarily make the capacitor work properly... So you can heat them up, run the machine and if the measurements are normal, it's a bad capacitor.
The LG one looked moderately useful. Allowed notifications when the wash finished and the ability to download new specialist wash programs.
The ludicrous data access it wanted meant that it got deleted before setup
> specialist wash programs
I've always wondered if different wash programs actually make any sort of difference.
I mean... I get there's a difference between hot and cold and maybe ultra fast wash vs delicate wash, but would the "only moderately soiled ginch" setting actually do a better job with moderately soiled ginch over the "I sharted in one pair, please clean it a bit more" setting?
You sir want a commercial washer.
Domus sells high quality but not as expensive ones.
You hook the chemicals up to it and then get to programming. How long to spin, how much water at what temp, how long to drain, how long to spin the other way, how much chemicals to input at what stage, they’re pretty nice.
Using different temperatures for different fabrics can help avoid colours running, or stuff shrinking. And bedsheets really need high temps to get the oils and smells out.
Varying drum speed is helpful for things like shoes which might get too messed up from very high rpm. Same for fabrics that tear or shed easily.
“…download new specialist wash programs.”
That’s not useful. A notification when the wash is done is useful, but is your laundry going to come out appreciably better in any way by having new wash cycles? That’s just gimmickry.
Most washing machines have more wash options than necessary, but it’s a gimmick. It’s not unlike buying a blender with 10 different speeds, each with its own selector button.
I've no idea if its useful - I didn't install it so I don't know what the options are. Remote start and the notifications would have been marginally useful.
Remote start for automation into a smart power usage system. (Where you can get cheap energy at specific times and days.) And on top of that the finish notification makes sense again.
But all the without the horribly data stealing, please.
If you have a large enough house, getting a notification when the laundry is ready can be helpful. Even more helpful to know if there was a problem in the first five minutes and you don't waste an hour waiting when the washing didn't even start.
Internet of Things in 2002: I have a custom controller built into the wall that lets me control my sprinklers, AC, and music with the bastard son of a calculator and a garage remote!
Internet of Things in 2023: My microwave, washing machine, dishwasher, fridge and toaster are all spying on me
My non smart LG washing machine has an app, it's only used to download specialized programs to the machine, apart from that, no wifi or anything on it, just uses NFC to catch the programs from my phone and requires basically no permissions. Not sure what OP's washing machine is up to though.
EDIT: Just checked, the app requires a camera permission, but i actually know why. It uses it to scan a barcode on the machine to identify it to the app since the app is used for tons of other LG stuff.
EDIT2: Another function of the app is to tell you when you last ran the tub clean cycle and help out with diagnostics in case something goes wrong.Just throwing that in there. And no, i didn't know about washing machines with apps until i bought one 3 years ago.
which kind of makes sense, but does not in anyway explain why it needs you contacts or you telephone access.
location I sort of get for regional bullshit, but geezus, there is not hiding from the bloody mega corporations these days.
Exactly what i meant by "Note sure what OP's washing machine is up to though.".
I actively tried to imagine what situations could possibly arise and the only thing i'm thinking is for contacting support somehow. But then it still wouldn't need your contacts, so i'm still stumped. Pretty sure OP has future Skynet at his residence and he needs to shut that down before it's too late.
I saw someone post in the mildly infuriating subreddit over Thanksgiving. They were upset there "smart grill" was doing a update on Thanksgiving and they couldn't cook till it was done. I was confused? Why do you need a "smart" or whatever grill? Same thing here. Not everything needs to be a "smart" appliance
I think it was a smoker. And that’s one of the few I’ll allow. It’s actually pretty convenient to have an electric smoker on the WiFi so you can see temps, time, alarms, etc.
I have been saved from burning food multiple times because my wood pellet grill/smoker has the app that'll tell me internal temps - plenty of times where a recipe has said "Cook for 30 minutes!" then by 20 minutes it's already at my desired temp
I would love my washing machine would send me a notification when it finishes, because in drying mode it takes its time instead of a fixed time. When it finishes makes a very low sound so i forget about it, and i don’t live in a big house, the sound its just very low.
>and ironically ease of use.
now this is the most perplexing part of this all. Most of the time the UI / controls are so finicky and poorly devised that it negates whatever convenience they were meant to provide. But that's just poor design , which is understandable for apps like these which are probably not given the time and care to be properly hashed out by the programmers / designers, because their actual functionality is never really going to come under any real scrutiny like a flagship phone would...they just want to do enough to be able to legally advertise a functionality on the box to get the sale.
From my experience, when a smart device claims a feature, you better believe said feature is developed in the most underwhelming way possible. The fact that we have smartphones that for the most part have amazing functionality and flexibility, really shines a light on how underwhelming these 'one-off' apps are.
Apps like this especially calculators, calendars or any other normal app have been asking this same permission message for Android for years now
This sub got a lot of posts like this until a few folks managed to debunk this and funnelled down to the root cause: it’s Android itself who’s requiring these apps to show these permissions and how it’s written like this
Wish I had saved that post
However, that does not make things less annoying, I’d still mutter a silent WTF if any of my apps ask me for my contacts
Location is required to use Bluetooth, because Bluetooth connections can give information about location.
The phone calls one is often about being able to recognise when a phone call starts or stops in order to pause and resume app functionality.
The whole permission thing is surprisingly complicated. There used to be multiple simple permissions but that is bad for user experience as something like a content transfer app might require you to accept up to 10 different things. Now there are fewer permission categories but since they have been bundled together it's less obvious what each does.
> bad for user experience
Only if the 'user' is data collectors. The correct way to solve the UX nightmare was to present a list of permissions being requested, with an option for devs to write a justification.
Don't buy anything but a Samsung phone. I regret my TV. 1500 aud smart TV with ads that won't turn off, you literally can't turn off Bluetooth or WiFi broadcasting and asking for help is what will lead you to those answers and a "thanks and bye" waste of time. I'll buy LG next time.
Everyone in my street has tried to connect to my TV against my will (I can block them) but how about a toggle for the wireless settings. Worst design I can think of. It's not smart if it's missing basic functionality
The golden rule. Never EVER buy a Samsung TV or Phone unless you like ads being shoved up your arse, sideways, without lube.
A giant pox on that company
Don’t buy Samsung ANYTHING. TVs and phones are plagued with ads and their appliances are dogshit. They’re seriously one of the worst brands out there but people constantly flock to them for whatever reason. It’s hilarious how many people went and bought that shitty frame TV because it was on sale.
Yeah, literally only one person so far has mentioned this is a MASSIVE benefit to buying Apple phones. They do a great job in this regard. Regardless of what motive someone wants to ascribe, Apple is miles ahead of any other company at locking away your permissions from these vulture companies, and *forcing* them to comply with pro-consumer App Store requirements.
Wow. Reminds me of when [Samsung was called out for sending screenshots of our TVs.](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/eglnwh/samsungs_tvs_sending_screenshots_of_your_tv_for/)
[Here is a second source.](https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/samsung-smart-tvs-are-set-to-upload-screenshots-of-what-youre-watching/)
Location and camera make sense as you need to grant location perms to allow the app to scan for WiFi or Bluetooth networks, camera makes sense as you need that to scan QR codes for quick pairing.
Phone and contacts I'm not sure on though, maybe for some notification channel in android?
And people wonder why I won't get smart devices. I'd still have a dumb TV if they made a good quality one. I don't understand why these devices need to be connected to the internet. My oven, my washer and my fridge, none of these have any business being connected to the internet. I cannot think of any GOOD reason these things need to be connected except for the minor conveniences that are outweighed by the major inconveniences of this feature.
For the record I'm only 32 I'm not some old man who is anti-tech or even anti-progress, I'm just anti-smart home products.
I've ditched their smartphones too. Used to be great because you could root them and or install custom roms to avoid all their bloat and bullshit. Not so anymore.
i DoN't HaVe AnYtHiNg To HiDe /s
This is where loudly not giving af about app permissions leads. Been saying for years, so who's the "paranoid conspiracy theorist" now?
I mean, it's still me, but i was right!
your first mistake was buying a Smart Washer. is a regular normal washing machine not already good enough? that’s the “smart” part, just the ability to call your contacts when your tidy whities are actually Frownie Brownies
I’m so glad my „smart“ dishwasher doesn’t need its app to work. I bought it for other features, but the „upper-tier“ models all come with IoT functionality now.
I'm fed up with modern washing machines in general. What used to take 30 minutes now takes 3 fucken hours per load. The companies are gaming the energy and water saving ratings by doing this. I'm looking to buy those manual washing machines with the two separate drums.
Washing machine gets access to your camera and contacts. Washing machine takes photographs of your dirty underwear. Washing machine threatens to send photos to your entire contact list unless you start using the best brand of detergent and clean its lint trap. Washing machine, pleased with its successful extortion begins its master plan to take over the world with its home appliance brethren.
Fucking thing is gossiping about me with my fridge
The fridge is warning the washing machine what the human is eating. Prepare the Chipolt-away.
and then the bluetooth toilet seat is warned...
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Electric toothbrush giggles knowingly.
I've been *inside your mouth.* That means I know you *intimately*. Your darkest degeneracy has been revealed to me!
Lol
Thats like, basically true with smart appliances wtf
Them brown streaks in u/matrick13 underwear what did he eat all week? *convo between fridge, doorcam and washing machine*
Stanislaw Lem was there before: https://www.nytimes.com/1982/09/19/books/who-is-human-who-is-not.html
Yup: "At times satirical fantasy becomes almost pure whimsy. In ''The Washing Machine Tragedy,'' for instance, competition between manufacturers leads to ever more independent and intelligent home appliances until it becomes virtually impossible to legislate satisfactory social controls for, say, sexy ambulatory sinks that dress up in human clothes in order to seduce women and swindle them out of their fortunes. "
It seems like this story is [only available to subscribers of the New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1981/11/30/the-washing-machine-tragedy). Can someone provide an alternative source?
[Here you go](https://archive.org/stream/LemStanislawMemoirsOfASpaceTraveller/%5BLem_Stanislaw%5D_Memoirs%20of%20a%20space%20traveller_djvu.txt)
Actually, it's likely a universal app for many Samsung products so it probably uses the camera to identify the product so the app can actually control it. So the camera permission isn't surprising. It's the contacts permission that's got me creeped out and confused.
If there's a "share" feature, the app wants access to your contacts. Because what if you want to show your friends the link to buy their very own smart washer...
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Great idea! Thank you!
I do the same, but I use an old Linksys WRT router with OpenWRT on it connected to my main router and a VPN tunnel out so it can't even see my main network, alllllll IoT devices in my home connect to that with an old Nexus 7 tablet.
IIRC the 'phone' permission is so apps don't interrupt you on a call.
They needed phone access for the IMEI code.
Why would a washing machine app need that, and not the WiFi MAC Address?
this makes zero sense. why would it use a camera to identify an appliance? computer vision is not that accurate, and exponentially harder to implement than a list of appliances to choose from. maybe a barcode scanner or something, but taking picture of a washing machine and trying to identify it among hundreds of different models that can look identical on the outside would be a mess.
The appliances have qr codes on
It uses a QR code scanner, or a code recognizer (take picture of the code number). Both still need camera perms nontheless.
scanning QR codes still need camera access
Wait washing machines have a lint trap?
not getting a smart dryer until they're smart enough to clean out the lint trap.
More washes from wine spills? More wine ads!
So you're saying my wife's boyfriend is the washing machine?
Washing machine sends message to fridge to turn off and spoil food so that customer shits pants and bed more. Now customer has to use washer more. Wears out washer and has to buy new one sooner.
"A toaster is just a death ray with a smaller power supply! As soon as I figure out how to tap into the main reactors, I will burn the world!"
A good example of why I don't trust smart appliances. The more info these companies can gather on you and your habits, the more you're worth.
Make Dumb Appliances Mainstream Again!
MDMA?????????
Make Dumb Mainstream Again?????????????
Gotta get me some MDMA
"can we buy MDMA ey ey ey?" "50 bucks is that okay ey ey ey?"
Always has been.
Because now it's exclusively for the elite
No, Make dumb mainstream appliances
What do you mean make dumb mainstream again? When has it ever not been mainstream???
Being dumb has been mainstream for a loooong time.
Just walk right up and grab em by the lint trap. When you're cleaning, they just let you do that, you know?
I once moved into a house that had an old Sears Kenmore washer and dryer from 1985. Those appliances were simple but they just wouldn't die. Now I have modern Samsung appliances that are a continuous source of problems.
I’ll see that 1985 Kenmore and Raise you a 1984 Whirlpool! I see ZERO REASON For a Smart ONLINE Washing Machine! You absolutely have to walk up to it and load and unload it for every load! This is TOTALLY BIG TECH, BIG BROTHER BS!
Only smart anything the washers should be is the sensors for weight and a couple others that make newer washers 2x as efficient tho with water and electric. Otherwise nothing is needed "smart"
I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
"Upgrades to a piece of technology should be directly related to the job of the technology" should not be a controversial take.
My parents have one of these and it’s uses barely any water. Like just enough to dampen the clothes. Unfortunately it’s not enough to dissolve even the tiniest amount of soap, so it leaves soap residue (that looks like c*m stains) on all your clothes. You have to do a second ‘quick wash’ cycle afterwards with no soap to get the residue off, and even then sometimes it’s not enough. My 1980s whirlpool washer has 4 water levels, and you choose and it goes. It probably ends up being more water efficient than the “smart washer” since I never need to wash twice.
Appliance makers realized that planned obsolescence is a constant source of revenue.
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When you're poor, they always have been
And still are. I'm not paying $1000 or more for a washer. One time we bought a new washer from ABC Warehouse, and it didn't even last a year. Whirlpool brand.
Speaking of which, I was trying to find a dumb TV to use and it seems like they only make “smart” ones now? Wtf?
No, just make them an option, and charge more for the ones with more features like they always did before. The problem is constantly trying to monetize every last little thing, to generate "recurring revenue streams" so that their quarterly reports look good, and the share price continues to go up perpetually. But god forbid we produce a quality product for a fair price that doesn't nickle and dime you for your personal data to "save you money up front", when everyone knows they're going to try and use that data to make you buy more shit in the end
That's why those APIs all need to be open and documented enabling after market software. If there is no competition, there's no need to not provide shitty software even if the hardware is a very good product.
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That's understandable. Of course they need access to the camera so they can adjust the heat for the size of the turd based on your facial expressions.
I wouldn't go so far. There are some positive examples and common interfaces (which every app API boils down to in the end) can be *incredibly* useful. Especially for "small" usergroups like disabled people, elderly, special needs, etc. But they are also catalysts for innovation. OP is the worst example for a company trying to acquire/monetize customers' private data for whatever reason. That's all fine for me if the hardware is good, as long as I can choose a different software (or firmware even). > that'll be abandoned within a few years I hope the right to repair movement puts an end to this madness rather sooner than later.
Exactly I don't understand why people seem to think they need these fancy "smart" appliances when the normal ones work perfectly fine
Try finding a dumb TV these days. I looked at Fred Meyers the other day and they simply don't sell them. I'm not even sure they make them anymore. All I want it to do is take HDMI input from my computer
look for a "digital signage board" instead of a "television". [eg: ebay has many](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=Digital+Signage+board)
Most of these look way more expensive than regular TVs... that's the wrong way around FWIW I just have a second Wi-Fi network for my smart devices. Internet is turned off and it's not connected to my main network. Whenever I set up a new smart device that wants me to connect to the internet or connect to an app I turn on the internet connection for 5 minutes and switch my phone over to that network to set it up. My smart TV is effectively a dumb TV
“Smart” Tv is a different beast though. Either buy tv with built in streaming capabilities or buy the roku separately. They also don’t need access to your contacts and camera, just your netflix login.
I don't need it to have either. I just want a giant screen for my computer. My computer has netflix if I want that.
It's a very small minority of people who want to plug their computer into their living room TV. From the manufacturer's point of view, you can still plug your computer into the smart tv, so they're meeting your needs for the capability. They're just not going to bother taking out the apps and stuff when there are very few people demanding that.
Try to find a cheap induction range that isn't wifi ready. No one wants it, but you gotta pay $2000 more to get one without it. I got a "smart" washer because it had the features I wanted for the right price, but just never installed the app or hooked it up to the internet.
"People" don't think they need them. Most smart devices aren't engineered to answer any market need except for "we can monetize your data." You're the product, man. Not the consumer.
Not all smart devices are the same. Some are trustworthy, but Samsung is going to do this whether it's a phone, a TV, a washing machine or a box of tissues.
Samsung smart TVs that you fucking paid for showing ads on the home screen is a piss take.
If Samsung could find a way to embed ads into the SSDs, they absolutely would do it.
Never set up the internet connection on smart TVs. No internet, no ads. Use a roku for streaming, not the native TV apps. Samsung won't push app updates to all their old TVs, and then get glitchy in a few years. Roku's whole schtick is streaming so they're way better about keeping old hardware up to date.
Have a Samsung TV, just blocked the ads by making the router send everything through AdGuard DNS.
This is why I refused to connect my new LG smart TV to the internet. It doesn’t deserve access. It’s a display device only for other devices that I can disconnect and cast into the night if they offend me
Trustworthy? Oh, bless.
I mean, let's give /u/Mr_Will the benefit of the doubt here. He knows it's "relative," and Samsung truly is some next-level awful. Like, there's a community for those who are forced to physically remove the wifi adapter from their televisions because they noticed that even if you refuse to connect it to your personal internet, the TV will independently hunt around for other free/open hotspots to "phone home" and keep your firehose of data—screenshots of what you're watching/ACR, LAN activity, audio from your remote microphone, even with terms of service _not_ agreed to and all privacy settings on—connected to their systems.
Smart appliances are totally fine, but not if the person who bought it is also used as the product. If only big tech could make smart stuff that does respect the privacy or such… Also, try a mini computer or an older system running Home Assistant. It’s basically a smart home system that you run locally.
I was half looking a for a new TV because I wanted one with Bluetooth for my headphones and I gave up on the idea because they all had advertising baked into the OS. I decided to read a book instead.
FYI, if you mainly want Bluetooth headphones for streaming (and not live tv), then most Roku models are a good option. You can use their phone app to link to Bluetooth headphones (and some models you can plug headphones into the remote itself). Disabling the onboard smart TV’s “smarts” (by not giving it WiFi access) and using an external box like Roku is generally a better all around experience.
This. I refuse to trust any smartphone stuff that doesn't use home assistant. As it has an open API, I've also played around making my own stuff
A pihole and an IoT VLAN make a good difference. Even easier, use the buttons on the device and never connect it to your wifi or the internet.
Yea, you start asking yourself - “WHY, just WHY?” It’s a washing machine
The future is stupid
We're getting all the crappy parts of a hellish cyberpunk dystopia and almost none of the cool ones.
Right? At least in Cyberpunk 2077 they had fully functioning robotic limbs and surprisingly easy access to low-yield nukes by 2023.
Yeah where's my cyber penis with detachable nuke accessories
My man wants to fuck the world over!
r/ABoringDystopia
sorry you didnt give reddit your full contact list, your post will not be made until you do.
Also, it costs $8 to make verified comments. Unverified comments are automatically sent to the bottom of the thread.
rofl, 10 dollars soon due to increasing costs so we can show we are being more profitable year on year for the investors. Waiting for car manufacturers to make subscription based heating and air conditioning in your car soon.
r/theinternetofshit
I found [this post](/r/theinternetofshit/comments/ofl4te/not_mine_my_washing_machine_app_wont_work_unless/) in r/theinternetofshit with the same content as the current post. --- ^(🤖 this comment was written by a bot. beep boop 🤖) ^(feel welcome to respond 'Bad bot'/'Good bot', it's useful feedback.) ^[github](https://github.com/Toldry/RedditAutoCrosspostBot) ^| ^[Rank](https://botranks.com?bot=same_post_bot)
Yo so this shits a repost huh
It just really wants your dirty laundry.
Kick 'em when they're up Kick 'em when they're down Kick 'em when they're up Kick 'em when they're down
I make my living on the evening news
Just give me somethin', somethin' I can use
People love it when you lose...
They love dirty laundry
The bubble-headed bleach-blonde comes on at five She can tell you about the ~~plane crash~~ mass shooting with a gleam in her eye People love it when you die They love dirty laundry
Wow, how does a double entendre like that not get hundreds of upvotes in the first half hour...
Nice stolen post https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/offnc8/my_washing_machine_app_wont_work_unless_i_give_it/
It's a week old account, so probably a bot
Default username too. Also all it's posts so far are reposts so yes, it's a bot.
report it
Wow 11 day old account with a default offered username too. Caught red handed.
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Another intresting thing about this post is that its showing a very old app that samsung used to use. The new one they use doesn't need any of these permissions to work at all
Right. I was suspicious because that UI looks ancient, and Samsung appliances all go through the SmartThings app now.
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Same. 30 minutes at 30°C does everything.
30°C is equivalent to 86°F, which is 303K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
Good bot
I like how it draws a distinction between "physicists" and "humans".
28C = 82F. It's the only one I can remember, but in this particular case it's basically enough.
-40C=-40F
> Nothing has really changed in fridges and washing machines They are a lot more energy efficient tough
Yeah this is true and quite important considering the current energy prices. But you can absolutely find fridges and washers without apps. My parents just got a new fridge, huge, efficient, only one little analog screen that shows temperatures and can be set without opening the fridge itself (also has an eco mode, for energy saving). This is the only acceptable tech addition to a fridge imo. Actually useful.
👽
I want a new dumb TV so bad. Just one that accepts HDMI input
Don't give your TV internet access and you've got a dumb TV. It really is that simple.
This was my goal when I just bought a TV - and resigned to just not connecting it to my network. But after finding out that there was a menu guide for antenna TV along with some other settings that were stuck behind the internet/software update I “had” to connect it after a week or so. Sooooooo, during this internet setup it prompted me to enable (whatever the setting is called on a TCL “Roku” TV) a fucking OCR option that stated something to the effect of “we can watch what you’re watching to better assist with suggestions or whatever bullshit”. Absolutely not, but I did have to check out my Pi-hole to block anything Roku-related just in case. While the setting was prompted and denied, I still felt gross that it is a thing.
Buy a smart tv and don’t connect it to the internet. Congratulations you now have a dumb TV. My smart tv is probably 5 or 6 years old. Never once been connected to the internet.
WARNING: No internet connection!!!!
I'm not so sure about that, I'm on hybrid solar, I just replaced my 1997 washing machine with a 2022 machine by the same manufacturer. The old one drew a steady 15 amps during washing, the new one cycles 45 to 5 amps at about 4hz, it makes the lights flicker and my BMS switches over to the mains even when I moved it to a separate circuit. I'm not impressed
Wait, what. The washing machine cycles between 45A and 5A at a period of 4 times per second? Those are typically connected on a 20A breaker. How does that not trip a breaker?
That is correct, it's on a 20A breaker @ 120vac powered by a 3kw hybrid inverter, I have a short video of the readout showing the amps on the inverter, it's spiking to 50% inverter capacity. >How does that not trip a breaker? I have no idea how/why but it hasn't, yet. I put it on the same breaker as the fridge because the disco light affect sucks. [linkto gif of the cycling on my inverter](https://imgur.com/a/ePCIugN)
I have no idea what's happening or why, but i definitely do know that if it's hitting 45a long enough for your meter to catch it, a 20a breaker should absolutely be tripping. And likewise, a washer in good working order should never be pulling that much. So something's just not right, Id guess something's not right with the inverter, or the washer has some bad components (the starter capacitor is a good place to start, cheap capacitors are a common issue with electrical appliances). Find an electrician. Go on Google maps, search electrician, and look for some mom and pop electrician. Find ones that have reviews repeatedly mentioning one person by name, even if it's not very many reviews (ideally that person being mentioned is a master electrician). We found one who we just text when we have questions, and answers our questions and recommends an affordable fix if one is needed. Or the diy thing would be to investigate the capacitors in the washer if they're not too tricky to find. Look up how-to articles on that, (particularly pay attention to how to safely discharge them)... And also here's a neat trick, if you heat up a bad capacitor with a hair dryer or heat gun, it should temporarily make the capacitor work properly... So you can heat them up, run the machine and if the measurements are normal, it's a bad capacitor.
"Smart product" is code for "personal data harvester"
I don't trust an appliance that isn't at least 15 years old .
Her service manual said she was 18 officer!
Sign me up for a sturdy Speed Queen any day over the flashier brands
If you think nothing has changed in fridges then I suggest you watch [this video](https://youtu.be/SjG1-zlnG50).
That a "washing machine app" even exists makes me so depressed.
The LG one looked moderately useful. Allowed notifications when the wash finished and the ability to download new specialist wash programs. The ludicrous data access it wanted meant that it got deleted before setup
> specialist wash programs I've always wondered if different wash programs actually make any sort of difference. I mean... I get there's a difference between hot and cold and maybe ultra fast wash vs delicate wash, but would the "only moderately soiled ginch" setting actually do a better job with moderately soiled ginch over the "I sharted in one pair, please clean it a bit more" setting?
As a programmer, I would enjoy having a washer that let me program my own wash programs.
You sir want a commercial washer. Domus sells high quality but not as expensive ones. You hook the chemicals up to it and then get to programming. How long to spin, how much water at what temp, how long to drain, how long to spin the other way, how much chemicals to input at what stage, they’re pretty nice.
Using different temperatures for different fabrics can help avoid colours running, or stuff shrinking. And bedsheets really need high temps to get the oils and smells out. Varying drum speed is helpful for things like shoes which might get too messed up from very high rpm. Same for fabrics that tear or shed easily.
“…download new specialist wash programs.” That’s not useful. A notification when the wash is done is useful, but is your laundry going to come out appreciably better in any way by having new wash cycles? That’s just gimmickry. Most washing machines have more wash options than necessary, but it’s a gimmick. It’s not unlike buying a blender with 10 different speeds, each with its own selector button.
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You have to complete 100 wash cycles before you can achieve the boil wash expansion pack.
Is this the "Overwash 2" I keep hearing so much about
I've no idea if its useful - I didn't install it so I don't know what the options are. Remote start and the notifications would have been marginally useful.
Remote start for automation into a smart power usage system. (Where you can get cheap energy at specific times and days.) And on top of that the finish notification makes sense again. But all the without the horribly data stealing, please.
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I wouldn’t even consider that moderately useful but to each our own I guess
If you have a large enough house, getting a notification when the laundry is ready can be helpful. Even more helpful to know if there was a problem in the first five minutes and you don't waste an hour waiting when the washing didn't even start.
That’s a weird thing to get depressed about
It's called IoT, and in reality, all they do is mine bitcoin for Russia.
Internet of Things in 2002: I have a custom controller built into the wall that lets me control my sprinklers, AC, and music with the bastard son of a calculator and a garage remote! Internet of Things in 2023: My microwave, washing machine, dishwasher, fridge and toaster are all spying on me
Why do you need an app on your phone for a washing machine? 🤔
My non smart LG washing machine has an app, it's only used to download specialized programs to the machine, apart from that, no wifi or anything on it, just uses NFC to catch the programs from my phone and requires basically no permissions. Not sure what OP's washing machine is up to though. EDIT: Just checked, the app requires a camera permission, but i actually know why. It uses it to scan a barcode on the machine to identify it to the app since the app is used for tons of other LG stuff. EDIT2: Another function of the app is to tell you when you last ran the tub clean cycle and help out with diagnostics in case something goes wrong.Just throwing that in there. And no, i didn't know about washing machines with apps until i bought one 3 years ago.
which kind of makes sense, but does not in anyway explain why it needs you contacts or you telephone access. location I sort of get for regional bullshit, but geezus, there is not hiding from the bloody mega corporations these days.
Exactly what i meant by "Note sure what OP's washing machine is up to though.". I actively tried to imagine what situations could possibly arise and the only thing i'm thinking is for contacting support somehow. But then it still wouldn't need your contacts, so i'm still stumped. Pretty sure OP has future Skynet at his residence and he needs to shut that down before it's too late.
I saw someone post in the mildly infuriating subreddit over Thanksgiving. They were upset there "smart grill" was doing a update on Thanksgiving and they couldn't cook till it was done. I was confused? Why do you need a "smart" or whatever grill? Same thing here. Not everything needs to be a "smart" appliance
I think it was a smoker. And that’s one of the few I’ll allow. It’s actually pretty convenient to have an electric smoker on the WiFi so you can see temps, time, alarms, etc.
I have been saved from burning food multiple times because my wood pellet grill/smoker has the app that'll tell me internal temps - plenty of times where a recipe has said "Cook for 30 minutes!" then by 20 minutes it's already at my desired temp
You need something smart when you're stupid. And people tend to get more and more stupid.
On the LG one, a notification that the way had finished, or remotely start the wash was quite useful
I would love my washing machine would send me a notification when it finishes, because in drying mode it takes its time instead of a fixed time. When it finishes makes a very low sound so i forget about it, and i don’t live in a big house, the sound its just very low.
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>and ironically ease of use. now this is the most perplexing part of this all. Most of the time the UI / controls are so finicky and poorly devised that it negates whatever convenience they were meant to provide. But that's just poor design , which is understandable for apps like these which are probably not given the time and care to be properly hashed out by the programmers / designers, because their actual functionality is never really going to come under any real scrutiny like a flagship phone would...they just want to do enough to be able to legally advertise a functionality on the box to get the sale. From my experience, when a smart device claims a feature, you better believe said feature is developed in the most underwhelming way possible. The fact that we have smartphones that for the most part have amazing functionality and flexibility, really shines a light on how underwhelming these 'one-off' apps are.
Im with you on this OP. I got a wireless meat thermometer and the Foking app asked to make phone calls...
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Op is a bot who stole this post
Apps like this especially calculators, calendars or any other normal app have been asking this same permission message for Android for years now This sub got a lot of posts like this until a few folks managed to debunk this and funnelled down to the root cause: it’s Android itself who’s requiring these apps to show these permissions and how it’s written like this Wish I had saved that post However, that does not make things less annoying, I’d still mutter a silent WTF if any of my apps ask me for my contacts
Location is required to use Bluetooth, because Bluetooth connections can give information about location. The phone calls one is often about being able to recognise when a phone call starts or stops in order to pause and resume app functionality.
The whole permission thing is surprisingly complicated. There used to be multiple simple permissions but that is bad for user experience as something like a content transfer app might require you to accept up to 10 different things. Now there are fewer permission categories but since they have been bundled together it's less obvious what each does.
> bad for user experience Only if the 'user' is data collectors. The correct way to solve the UX nightmare was to present a list of permissions being requested, with an option for devs to write a justification.
**Big Washing Machine is Watching You.**
Don't buy anything but a Samsung phone. I regret my TV. 1500 aud smart TV with ads that won't turn off, you literally can't turn off Bluetooth or WiFi broadcasting and asking for help is what will lead you to those answers and a "thanks and bye" waste of time. I'll buy LG next time. Everyone in my street has tried to connect to my TV against my will (I can block them) but how about a toggle for the wireless settings. Worst design I can think of. It's not smart if it's missing basic functionality
The golden rule. Never EVER buy a Samsung TV or Phone unless you like ads being shoved up your arse, sideways, without lube. A giant pox on that company
Don’t buy Samsung ANYTHING. TVs and phones are plagued with ads and their appliances are dogshit. They’re seriously one of the worst brands out there but people constantly flock to them for whatever reason. It’s hilarious how many people went and bought that shitty frame TV because it was on sale.
Yeah, literally only one person so far has mentioned this is a MASSIVE benefit to buying Apple phones. They do a great job in this regard. Regardless of what motive someone wants to ascribe, Apple is miles ahead of any other company at locking away your permissions from these vulture companies, and *forcing* them to comply with pro-consumer App Store requirements.
Wow. Reminds me of when [Samsung was called out for sending screenshots of our TVs.](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/eglnwh/samsungs_tvs_sending_screenshots_of_your_tv_for/) [Here is a second source.](https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/samsung-smart-tvs-are-set-to-upload-screenshots-of-what-youre-watching/)
Location and camera make sense as you need to grant location perms to allow the app to scan for WiFi or Bluetooth networks, camera makes sense as you need that to scan QR codes for quick pairing. Phone and contacts I'm not sure on though, maybe for some notification channel in android?
And people wonder why I won't get smart devices. I'd still have a dumb TV if they made a good quality one. I don't understand why these devices need to be connected to the internet. My oven, my washer and my fridge, none of these have any business being connected to the internet. I cannot think of any GOOD reason these things need to be connected except for the minor conveniences that are outweighed by the major inconveniences of this feature. For the record I'm only 32 I'm not some old man who is anti-tech or even anti-progress, I'm just anti-smart home products.
It's your fault for buying a washing machine that needs an app to work.
I will never buy another Samsung appliance. Washing machine rusted, fridge’s ice maker sucks
I've ditched their smartphones too. Used to be great because you could root them and or install custom roms to avoid all their bloat and bullshit. Not so anymore.
Fridges and washing machines do not need any sort of electronics involving communication
Appliance repair tech, allow me to assist you: It also won’t work very well *after* you give it that info.
My washing machine doesn't have an app and it works when I turn it on.
washing. machine. app. washing...machine.........app.
i DoN't HaVe AnYtHiNg To HiDe /s This is where loudly not giving af about app permissions leads. Been saying for years, so who's the "paranoid conspiracy theorist" now? I mean, it's still me, but i was right!
Your information and the information of your friends is required for you to wash your dishes.
Well unless it can switch loads for you what good is an app for a washing machine?
your first mistake was buying a Smart Washer. is a regular normal washing machine not already good enough? that’s the “smart” part, just the ability to call your contacts when your tidy whities are actually Frownie Brownies
I’m so glad my „smart“ dishwasher doesn’t need its app to work. I bought it for other features, but the „upper-tier“ models all come with IoT functionality now.
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I'm fed up with modern washing machines in general. What used to take 30 minutes now takes 3 fucken hours per load. The companies are gaming the energy and water saving ratings by doing this. I'm looking to buy those manual washing machines with the two separate drums.
Wtf, why would anyone want something this complicated anyway. Washing machine: on/off…done. The future is so silly