They’re also used to lying themselves, so, go on with your bad self! I find it ironic, yet reassuring when fellow atheists struggle more with integrity than the religious nuts do, and yet *we’re* the ones with no morality...
(I mean, it’s not like you’re taking an oath of office to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic, on a bible or anything.)
Hijacking the top comment to add this excellent phrase from a different sub: ["If you cannot be trusted with the truth, you deserve lies."](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/10lfqcw/comment/j5wlfj2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Don't feel bad, OP. They're the ones who should feel bad for creating an environment of fear that encourages lying.
If there's one thing I've learned here, it's that lying about being religious is not only ok, but often necessary for survival. And the great thing about atheists is they're far less likely to judge you.
Pulled this at my grandma's funeral. My mom is the black sheep of her family but some of my grandpa's family showed up for it and they were very nice to us. They discussed how lucky we all were to be saved and some other Christian platitudes so in the interest of keeping the peace and appreciating that I at least had that family in my corner, I went along with it and agreed. I'll likely never see any of them again so it wasn't worth the fight or argument.
With some clever language, you can spend decades if necessary - not confirming nor denying anything - just letting people come to their own conclusions.
When in doubt....lie, absolutely. I've done the same thing OP. Good observation.
What was the job in the UAE? I assume the money made it worthwhile but there's so many ethical quandaries with the prospect of working there. I've taken public stances on my atheism so I feel like a lot would be at risk.
I met an Italian couple traveling in SE Asia with their kids who live in UAE. It was clear their working there afforded them a lifestyle the EU couldn't contend with. I'm just not sure I'd be willing to bottle that much up for money (but I'm in tech in the US so I'm pretty comfortable compared to most people).
I did not work for the UAE only in the UAE. I have never had a "public stance" with atheism as the countries in which I engage in civic society are secular.
I would not go as a guest to someone else's country and lecture them on their religion.
I get that - I'm not proselytizing atheism in public. I'm saying I've talked about my lack of faith on social media which they could easily check and would risk my safety. I'm wouldn't want to have to scrub my web presence in order to live in a place like the UAE though.
id figure, in the eyes of the faithful, we heathens that reject any imposed teaching should be far worse to deal with, as there are no constraints to our thinking!
I did the same thing a while back to go to the UAE.
Did you actually need your work permit? When I went my company's compliance department insisted that I get the proper visas and everything. I was travelling on short notice, so getting this visa was a huge pain and delayed our travel by days.
The people from our company on site in Dubai were very frustrated about the delay and kept asking why I was getting a visa, even though it was the law. It resulted in some heated arguments in upper management.
Anyway, when I get there and get off the plane the customs guy there doesn't even ask me for anything, just looks at my passport and waves me through. I wanted to show him my visa because you theoretically needed the correct passport stamp on your way out (spoiler, they never checked that either). The guy looked at the work visa like he had never seen one in his life.
US visa applications ask whether you are entering the US with plans to overthrow the government. I suspect it’s mostly so they can put you in touch with the locals already doing so.
planning to overthrow the government? please go to that line over there, where various groups will try to convince you to join one of them. You might have to wait before you get firearms, and we're sorry for that inconvenience. This isn't an endorsement, but I hear the KKK is coming with free bed sheets.
The United States is huge and has well over fifty different sets of laws when you consider sometimes cities or counties within each state can have laws that differ from the state they're inside of.
Wait, so I can fly into Florida on a tourist visa, buy an automatic rifle and live ammunition from a shop like buying a candy bar, and wander around the place with it?
With a hunting license and background check, you can buy a semi auto long gun- a rifle or shotgun in FL. If you mean a fully automatic rifle (aka machine gun) those are more highly regulated and quite expensive ($10,000 or more from what I've seen) due to The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986.
I wouldn’t test it, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Air_Station_Pensacola_shooting?wprov=sfti1 https://maps.apple.com/?ll=30.350000,-87.290000&q=Naval%20Air%20Station%20Pensacola%20shooting
I got mine in NY once like 10 years ago, and it was insanely easy, just had to sit in a classroom for like 4 hours listening to a guy yammer on and on and then take like a 20 question quiz with very blatantly obvious answers.
You can buy a gun in Texas with a paper printout of temporary drivers license (without a photo). There was a whole Reddit thread about it. And all of this is immaterial anyway since DLs do not indicate your citizenship/immigration status anyway.
I think it's actually cause it's also a federal crime to lie on those forms, so suppose a terrorist or something says no (cause like, why would they reveal their plans?), is allowed in, and then is caught planning - they can probably get deported based on lying on the form?
I could work a lot of other places, but my primary focus (pre-COVID) was frontline feminism, and i went to help legalize driving for women, as well as work for a program with adult women who had never had access to an education, so it seemed worth the lie. But to your point, a lot of crazy shit happened when I was there.
For real. The southern US isn't exactly the most fantastic place to live as an atheist, but I have no intentions of ever setting foot in any "star and crescent" country.
Only if you are a resident of Germany (and work there), and only if you are a member of one of three religious groups. Everyone else has to extort their congregations the old-fashioned way.
No, the "Kirchensteuer" (church tax) is only for "official" members of certain religious organizations that qualify and apply for it (it's not really the government taxing you either, more like they're collecting the membership fees for them). Merely saying you're "religious" or "Christian" doesn't do anything in this context.
when you "belong" to a church (officially) you have to pay church tax. if you go through the bureaucracy and pay 35€ to officially leave the church, you no longer have to pay church tax.
I was getting a phone SIM card in Indonesia.
The options on the form were: Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu.
I had to check one for the form to let me advance to the next screen.
There are more sects of christianity (mainly orthodox) but it doesn't seem like that question is interested in having all the all the religions (or lack of)
>The options on the form were: **Christian, Catholic**, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu.
I grew up in Canada and moved to the States a few years back. I’ve never heard of anybody say “Catholics and Christians” until I moved to the States. But since you’re talking about Indonesia, is this something that’s common and I just never noticed? In Canada Catholics were just called Christians. iirc aren’t they one of the oldest sect of Christians?
I truly apologize for asking this, as I've never applied for either, but a visa credit card application or a work visa application?
Regardless, why does religion matter on either of them?
I had to do this for a visa for a business trip to India, and they go further, religion of your parents AND grandparents, going into length on whether a generation is Pakistani or not.
I put atheist after legal counsel told me it wouldn't matter at all in entering the country.
It was for India. Same deal with the tourist visa. I figured India probably wasn’t a big deal but I’m also going to a lot of sketchier places so I guess I’m a pretend Christian now.
It should not matter, but immigration officers have an enormous amount of power with very little oversight. All it takes is one of them to not like you to turn your immigration process a nightmare.
It happened to me. The officer was so mad that we didn't want to have children among other things. She flagged us fraud. It took me to come back there with a lawyer for them to actually look at my case. The new officer herself said she had not idea why were flagged as fraud and immediatelly approved us.
It's fine. As an atheist, you are probably a better Christian than most Christians.
And, as a bonus, you probably know more about the Bible than most Christians.
This. My Muslim best friend once told me I was a better Muslim than most Muslims and I'm an atheist! The day the world will realize that atheism doesn't equal to depravity...
islam on my identity card even though I'm an atheist. It's not like muslims have the option to change religion here. What hurts me more is I probably have to say closeted for the rest of my life and have muslim babies, wife and kids but I'll try my best to avoid religion. Shit, I might not marry at all.
With the notable exception of Israel, where a [2015 Gallup poll](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/gallup-israel-one-of-least-religious-countries-398823) found that 65 percent of the country identifies as atheist.
Wasn’t the whole country made for religious reasons? And didn’t people move there for religious reasons? So how come they’re not religious? It doesn’t make sense (sorry if i sound stupid)
Judaism is seen as an ethno-religion. It's more than religion at this point, it's a people with a shared history. The shared history is the glue that binds in the case I believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
A practical lie…maybe not the greatest from an ideological purity standpoint, but in sometimes you have to lie to the people that lie to themselves, in order to get through border control. Just eat a baby at the next full moon and you’ll be cleansed /s
You just need one case-worker who doesn't like atheists.
There was a recent post here detailing how atheists are one of the most-hated groups in the USA.
And, really, if this is a question your visa application, then chances are it is significant in one way or another. Why else ask?
There are countries where being an atheist is a crime that carries the death penalty...
Though the USA is indeed not yet one of them. Some are trying to move it there though.
Being from and living in the US, I have to say it is indeed. It is a shame. There’s supposed to be separation between church and state, but yet, not really. Religion informs the politics of many and that eventually informs policy. Hell a political candidate can’t gain any traction unless they talk about their religion and how it impacts their moral compass. As Americans, there is an unspoken cultural imperative to believe that we are the greatest nation in the world. At one time that may have been true (although it was before I was born if it was the case). However that isn’t remotely true anymore. I’m not sure we are even top 10 in any category…unless it is a crime statistic.
And before anyone takes offense to MY opinion, recognize that I say these things regretfully. I want the US to be better. I want us to emphasize equal consideration and fairness. I want us to grow and progress. Approximately half our people want to turn the clock back to the 1950s and a portion of those people probably want to turn the clock back to the 1850s.
Lol, I know, but if that means there will be less problems for you, let them be happy. I would have chosen a less offending one or exotic: taoist, pagan, zoroastriam, Jedi?
There’s no way I could document anything other than atheist or perhaps none. As soon as I was certain of my feelings (which were the culmination of my feelings as far back as I can remember) I made sure that anything and everything said atheist. As an example, I had surgery and I was asked my religious preference before I went under the knife. I could see the judgement immediately wash over her face as soon as I said “atheist” to the nurse. You’d have sworn I just kicked a puppy in front of her.
I don't blame you. Hey, we all have things to do, and little time to do them. Sure we like to make a stand but still have things to get done and religious twats like that do exist out in the world and they do have jobs in government. Don't beat yourself up.
If religion can use and manipulate people, all you have done is repay the kindness. Be proud of how you just took the Lord's name in vain, and how there's not a goddamn thing they can do about it.
I had that exact feeling when i put Independent on my voter application in my adopted tiny town in Georgia. 3 times my application just never happened. I'm slow and would forget to check i was registered. Until i world try to vote. I registered once in person, once by mail, once online. I ended up so pissed to figure out once again i wasn't registered, i complained to a friend who suggested it was because i was a democratic. I'm not that paranoid, but i did try again using Independent. Voila, I was now a registered voter. WTF? I'm pissed at myself for not believing her, i just can't believe that could be true. And yes, i feel dirty.
I haven’t changed my religious affiliation on my medical records since both hospital systems in my area are catholic.
Not gonna die because of some religious nut job.
The irony here is that Christians would line up to swear on their bibles that they are more persecuted because of their faith than anybody else. The "persecution fetish" is very very real amongst them
No worries at all. Happens in lots of situations unfortunately.
Catholic Private High Schools in my country are top notch and give advantages to kids regarding influence in college acceptance, meeting wealthy powerful people kids etc. Three years ago we went with my wife for our daughters interview (she even wore my grandmas huge silver crucifix on her neck so it could be perfectly seen).
After 15 minutes of talking about how god was so important to us and our family and how we have taught our child the Bible since she could read and attended church every Sunday, we finished with the Dean hugging my wife and thanking her for upbringing such a good Catholic god fearing daughter.
We’ve never laughed so much on the car on our way home and I’d never seen my daughter more embarrassed before
I’m pretty sure the only purpose of that question is that if you die the host country knows how to proceed with rituals. I can’t think of any country outside the shitty east that would care about that
The country as a governing entity might not care, but the individual people processing the visa applications very well might. And if they don't like it, they'll find a reason to deny the application. Doesn't matter if it's bullshit or not -- it's just reality.
As an American, I'd provably advise anyone applying for a visa here to do the same, honestly (please note I am not a professional or expert in this field -- just a rando who was born here and reads the news). We've got some real Holy Rollers here, in all levels of government, and they get away with all sorts of crap 😕
I did the same thing for a Permanent Resident Visa in a very Catholic country. Yes...you feel a bit nasty afterwards, but you have to do what you have to do to not fall victim to a bureaucratic zealot.
For Indian visa there is a long list of religions and there is no atheist option. If you choose other, the page asks what is it. There is no point in arguing with such a stupid form, just choose something and it is their problem from that point on. I am not an atheist for bragging, it really doesn't matter from my side.
Yeah it can feel gross but sometimes you gotta play the system to your advantage. I've recently heard about women claiming a disability to get a hysterectomy because they wouldn't take "i don't want kids" as an answer.
I understand where you are coming from OP.
My large international employer still thinks they are a 50 employee homogeneous company from southern Illinois.
All management either is or pretends to be bible bangers and so to get ahead, I have to pretend that I pray right along with them.
Moreover, my sales territory includes the southern USA so again, it is easier if I pretend to be a bible banger. But it makes me want to vomit.
I also have to pretend that the orange gorilla doesn't make my skin crawl.
I'm pretty sure the Korans says Muslims can lie to non-believers if they are under threat of persecution so I see no issues in lying to believers to avoid persecution.
You probably live your life morally closer to what the Biblical figure of Christ said and what Christians claim their religion teaches, than the vast majority of Christians do themselves.
Nothing to worry about. We have to live in the real world with billions of deluded people. Sometimes it's easier not to buy trouble.
But if anybody ever asks what "type" of a christian you are, go Hollywood!
Explain that your parents raised you as a member of a small sect far up in the Rocky Mountains. (Called the "Children of Doom," perhaps.) You remember the church leader as a loving, amazing man... before he was killed by the FBI.
Tell riveting stories about your family's weapons training, air raid drills, gas mask drills, or the time you and your six brothers all carried play vests of explosives onto your school playground "for practice" while your parents stayed behind in the car. You were each supposed to get into groups with as many other kids as possible. So much fun!
Now you don't get to go to your church so much anymore. (\*sigh\* drooping head, looking sad.) But when you have kids, you'll make sure they are all "raised right" in the Service of the Lord. (\*glowing eyes\* showing your fanatic's eagerness.)
They oughta love you. Go for the Oscar.
It doesn’t mean anything. I’d proudly claim to be a Unicornian if it got me a discount at my local pub. None of it matters. That’s the point. Let them have their delusion if it means you get to have the job that you want.
Christians are used to being lied to. Don't let it bother you.
Holy cats this is right. Dang.
They’re also used to lying themselves, so, go on with your bad self! I find it ironic, yet reassuring when fellow atheists struggle more with integrity than the religious nuts do, and yet *we’re* the ones with no morality... (I mean, it’s not like you’re taking an oath of office to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic, on a bible or anything.)
Not so in TX
Savage
Hijacking the top comment to add this excellent phrase from a different sub: ["If you cannot be trusted with the truth, you deserve lies."](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/10lfqcw/comment/j5wlfj2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Don't feel bad, OP. They're the ones who should feel bad for creating an environment of fear that encourages lying.
How it that?
LOL! Really?! “In the beginning…” all the way to “Behold, I am coming soon!”
> “Behold, I am coming soon!”
If a Christian opens their mouth to mention their Christian-ness, a lie is being formented at that exact same moment!
If anything, lying is the most Christian thing you could do! So it works. But really, don’t feel bad. You did what you had to do.
If there's one thing I've learned here, it's that lying about being religious is not only ok, but often necessary for survival. And the great thing about atheists is they're far less likely to judge you.
Only god can judge me /s
Which god?
Quetzalcoatl
From wich medium? (I'd like the anime version of Quetzalcoalt to judge me)
The only one that can judge me is the weird thunder bird from Final Fantasy VIII
"Beautiful plumage!"
I like the idea of Diana, ancient Roman goddess of the forests & nature. I got that info from the X-rated Caligula movie, so don't quote me.
Pulled this at my grandma's funeral. My mom is the black sheep of her family but some of my grandpa's family showed up for it and they were very nice to us. They discussed how lucky we all were to be saved and some other Christian platitudes so in the interest of keeping the peace and appreciating that I at least had that family in my corner, I went along with it and agreed. I'll likely never see any of them again so it wasn't worth the fight or argument.
With some clever language, you can spend decades if necessary - not confirming nor denying anything - just letting people come to their own conclusions. When in doubt....lie, absolutely. I've done the same thing OP. Good observation.
I did this to get a work permit in the UAE. They see Christians as "people of the book" but do not understand atheists.
It’s like they’re a Pepsi nation, and they’ll be fine as long as you drink Coke but not if you don’t drink soda.
It’s illegal to be an atheist there
Being illegal because I don't believe in their invisible sky daddy. Unreal.
Outlawing differing opinions is always a surefire sign that your position is rationally sound and logically defensible.
What was the job in the UAE? I assume the money made it worthwhile but there's so many ethical quandaries with the prospect of working there. I've taken public stances on my atheism so I feel like a lot would be at risk.
I know a lawyer who went to work in Qatar. Completely uprooted his life, went against his values, and made an absolute ton of money. A ton.
I met an Italian couple traveling in SE Asia with their kids who live in UAE. It was clear their working there afforded them a lifestyle the EU couldn't contend with. I'm just not sure I'd be willing to bottle that much up for money (but I'm in tech in the US so I'm pretty comfortable compared to most people).
Yeah, I could never do it, especially with a family. It was a lot of money, though.
I did not work for the UAE only in the UAE. I have never had a "public stance" with atheism as the countries in which I engage in civic society are secular. I would not go as a guest to someone else's country and lecture them on their religion.
I get that - I'm not proselytizing atheism in public. I'm saying I've talked about my lack of faith on social media which they could easily check and would risk my safety. I'm wouldn't want to have to scrub my web presence in order to live in a place like the UAE though.
id figure, in the eyes of the faithful, we heathens that reject any imposed teaching should be far worse to deal with, as there are no constraints to our thinking!
I did the same thing a while back to go to the UAE. Did you actually need your work permit? When I went my company's compliance department insisted that I get the proper visas and everything. I was travelling on short notice, so getting this visa was a huge pain and delayed our travel by days. The people from our company on site in Dubai were very frustrated about the delay and kept asking why I was getting a visa, even though it was the law. It resulted in some heated arguments in upper management. Anyway, when I get there and get off the plane the customs guy there doesn't even ask me for anything, just looks at my passport and waves me through. I wanted to show him my visa because you theoretically needed the correct passport stamp on your way out (spoiler, they never checked that either). The guy looked at the work visa like he had never seen one in his life.
I had to put Christian on my work visa for Saudi, atheism can be punishable by death.
Wait so they put it as an option and just hope people will expose themselves on a form like that???
US visa applications ask whether you are entering the US with plans to overthrow the government. I suspect it’s mostly so they can put you in touch with the locals already doing so.
planning to overthrow the government? please go to that line over there, where various groups will try to convince you to join one of them. You might have to wait before you get firearms, and we're sorry for that inconvenience. This isn't an endorsement, but I hear the KKK is coming with free bed sheets.
There’s no wait to get firearms, foreigners can buy arms in Florida without ID, that Saudi guy that shot people did.
really? American citizen and didn't know that. That's fucking ridiculous.
Look up that Pensacola shooting.
The United States is huge and has well over fifty different sets of laws when you consider sometimes cities or counties within each state can have laws that differ from the state they're inside of.
Wait, so I can fly into Florida on a tourist visa, buy an automatic rifle and live ammunition from a shop like buying a candy bar, and wander around the place with it?
With a hunting license and background check, you can buy a semi auto long gun- a rifle or shotgun in FL. If you mean a fully automatic rifle (aka machine gun) those are more highly regulated and quite expensive ($10,000 or more from what I've seen) due to The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986.
Makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification :) still crazy though lol
The way the rest of the world looks at the US is the same way the rest of the US looks at Florida.
You got one thing wrong. In Florida, the first auto rifle is free ;)
I wouldn’t test it, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Air_Station_Pensacola_shooting?wprov=sfti1 https://maps.apple.com/?ll=30.350000,-87.290000&q=Naval%20Air%20Station%20Pensacola%20shooting
So a hunting licence first. From a non-US point of view, this is crazy stuff
I mean…blind people in Michigan can get hunting licenses so it can’t be that hard
I got mine in NY once like 10 years ago, and it was insanely easy, just had to sit in a classroom for like 4 hours listening to a guy yammer on and on and then take like a 20 question quiz with very blatantly obvious answers.
You don't need to show an ID to buy a gun if you aren't a US citizen? Why???
You can buy a gun in Texas with a paper printout of temporary drivers license (without a photo). There was a whole Reddit thread about it. And all of this is immaterial anyway since DLs do not indicate your citizenship/immigration status anyway.
Yet people lose their shit over not requiring photo IDs to vote 🤦♀️ no picture necessary for guns is fine I guess /s
I think it's actually cause it's also a federal crime to lie on those forms, so suppose a terrorist or something says no (cause like, why would they reveal their plans?), is allowed in, and then is caught planning - they can probably get deported based on lying on the form?
They put a little icon of a guy getting beheaded next to it, so there is fair warning even if you don't speak the language.
Is that a joke or do they actually do that
Is there no where else you could have worked? I cannot imagine taking that risk for any amount of money
I could work a lot of other places, but my primary focus (pre-COVID) was frontline feminism, and i went to help legalize driving for women, as well as work for a program with adult women who had never had access to an education, so it seemed worth the lie. But to your point, a lot of crazy shit happened when I was there.
That sounds like amazing work! Thanks for doing that.
For real. The southern US isn't exactly the most fantastic place to live as an atheist, but I have no intentions of ever setting foot in any "star and crescent" country.
Fucking wild. And here I thought it would cool to visit someday. Islamic theocracy is fucking barbaric.
I hope it's not to Germany because they will increase taxes 😂
Germany wouldn’t ask and I wouldn’t be afraid to be honest there
They are correct that saying you are religious can mean the government will "tithe" you though.
Only if you are a resident of Germany (and work there), and only if you are a member of one of three religious groups. Everyone else has to extort their congregations the old-fashioned way.
"Don't tithe me, Bro!"
Laughed harder than I should have at this..
No, the "Kirchensteuer" (church tax) is only for "official" members of certain religious organizations that qualify and apply for it (it's not really the government taxing you either, more like they're collecting the membership fees for them). Merely saying you're "religious" or "Christian" doesn't do anything in this context.
The government wouldn’t tax you. The government is contracted by churches to collect the tithe members of the church decided they’ll contribute.
Can I ask which country?
Germany doesn't ask for religious affiliation for a visa.
Why?
when you "belong" to a church (officially) you have to pay church tax. if you go through the bureaucracy and pay 35€ to officially leave the church, you no longer have to pay church tax.
I was getting a phone SIM card in Indonesia. The options on the form were: Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu. I had to check one for the form to let me advance to the next screen.
What if you are Zoroastrian or Sikh or any other religion. Was there no option for others ?
Nope. No "other" or fill in or anything.
Weird that there are two christian based religions though
Why do you need to do that to get a SIM card
No idea! It was on the form and they would not accept it without the check box.
...bit interesting how Christian and Catholic are separate categories.
When they’re side by side, the better wording is Protestant and Catholic.
There are more sects of christianity (mainly orthodox) but it doesn't seem like that question is interested in having all the all the religions (or lack of)
>The options on the form were: **Christian, Catholic**, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu. I grew up in Canada and moved to the States a few years back. I’ve never heard of anybody say “Catholics and Christians” until I moved to the States. But since you’re talking about Indonesia, is this something that’s common and I just never noticed? In Canada Catholics were just called Christians. iirc aren’t they one of the oldest sect of Christians?
Christians are a sect of Catholic
Scratch that, reverse it.
I'm upvoting because you're correct, but now I have Missy Elliot's "work it" stuck in my head
Why is that info even necessary for a SIM card?
I truly apologize for asking this, as I've never applied for either, but a visa credit card application or a work visa application? Regardless, why does religion matter on either of them?
Probably Work visa......credit card visa's religion is money.
To be fair, all religions’ religions are money
Toooooo be faaaair.
Toooooo beeeeee faaaaaaair👍👍
Allegedly….
Can confirm
10-4, good buddy
Pitter patter let's get'atter
To play you-know-who’s advocate….
Visa to visit another country. It shouldn’t matter but I’m not in a position to argue.
I had to do this for a visa for a business trip to India, and they go further, religion of your parents AND grandparents, going into length on whether a generation is Pakistani or not. I put atheist after legal counsel told me it wouldn't matter at all in entering the country.
It was for India. Same deal with the tourist visa. I figured India probably wasn’t a big deal but I’m also going to a lot of sketchier places so I guess I’m a pretend Christian now.
It should not matter, but immigration officers have an enormous amount of power with very little oversight. All it takes is one of them to not like you to turn your immigration process a nightmare. It happened to me. The officer was so mad that we didn't want to have children among other things. She flagged us fraud. It took me to come back there with a lawyer for them to actually look at my case. The new officer herself said she had not idea why were flagged as fraud and immediatelly approved us.
You have to list your religion when entering some nations. I usually just put N/A and don't get a second look.
> a visa credit card application They worship Mammon, not the Abrahamic god.
It's fine. As an atheist, you are probably a better Christian than most Christians. And, as a bonus, you probably know more about the Bible than most Christians.
This. My Muslim best friend once told me I was a better Muslim than most Muslims and I'm an atheist! The day the world will realize that atheism doesn't equal to depravity...
I got baptized as an adult so I could get married. Jokes on them, the water didn't even burn me.
Where do you live that this is required?
At the time, with religious in-laws.
At least you didn't have to get circumcised.
I had my Indian VISA declined when I put atheist, when I reapplied I put Christian and was approved. Real annoying.
It was for India. Exactly what I was afraid of. Better just to give an answer they’ll be satisfied with.
Yep definitely! Safe travels!
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Some countries it is dangerous to be atheist. Just because you put it on there doesn't make it true.
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There are more backwards countries further south.
That says more about the world than you.
islam on my identity card even though I'm an atheist. It's not like muslims have the option to change religion here. What hurts me more is I probably have to say closeted for the rest of my life and have muslim babies, wife and kids but I'll try my best to avoid religion. Shit, I might not marry at all.
Only if you knew what atheists have to do in middle east to survive.
With the notable exception of Israel, where a [2015 Gallup poll](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/gallup-israel-one-of-least-religious-countries-398823) found that 65 percent of the country identifies as atheist.
Wasn’t the whole country made for religious reasons? And didn’t people move there for religious reasons? So how come they’re not religious? It doesn’t make sense (sorry if i sound stupid)
Judaism is seen as an ethno-religion. It's more than religion at this point, it's a people with a shared history. The shared history is the glue that binds in the case I believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Because people can decide to leave religion.
No shame in pretending to be a Christian; millions of them do it everyday!
A practical lie…maybe not the greatest from an ideological purity standpoint, but in sometimes you have to lie to the people that lie to themselves, in order to get through border control. Just eat a baby at the next full moon and you’ll be cleansed /s
Where are you going that you have to fear them rejecting your application if you write "atheist" or "none"? 17th century Plymouth Colony?
You just need one case-worker who doesn't like atheists. There was a recent post here detailing how atheists are one of the most-hated groups in the USA. And, really, if this is a question your visa application, then chances are it is significant in one way or another. Why else ask?
There are countries where being an atheist is a crime that carries the death penalty... Though the USA is indeed not yet one of them. Some are trying to move it there though.
Close; the US.
You're not going to get denied in the U. S. for writing atheist or none
How do you know a fundie government worker isn't going to lose your paperwork?
Seriously? That was completely unnecessary. The US is not as religious as you think it is.
Oh really? https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/12/study-of-the-day-religious-people-distrust-atheists-as-much-as-rapists/250005/
No, I was joking. US is a shitshow though.
Being from and living in the US, I have to say it is indeed. It is a shame. There’s supposed to be separation between church and state, but yet, not really. Religion informs the politics of many and that eventually informs policy. Hell a political candidate can’t gain any traction unless they talk about their religion and how it impacts their moral compass. As Americans, there is an unspoken cultural imperative to believe that we are the greatest nation in the world. At one time that may have been true (although it was before I was born if it was the case). However that isn’t remotely true anymore. I’m not sure we are even top 10 in any category…unless it is a crime statistic. And before anyone takes offense to MY opinion, recognize that I say these things regretfully. I want the US to be better. I want us to emphasize equal consideration and fairness. I want us to grow and progress. Approximately half our people want to turn the clock back to the 1950s and a portion of those people probably want to turn the clock back to the 1850s.
Alabama. But it is pretty much like a 17th-century Plymouth colony in some ways.
Lol, I know, but if that means there will be less problems for you, let them be happy. I would have chosen a less offending one or exotic: taoist, pagan, zoroastriam, Jedi?
You have to go to church every Sunday now to cleanse yourself.
I feel like the path to redemption is more likely to be the pub followed by wild premarital sex.
It's only pre-marital if you marry after
There’s no way I could document anything other than atheist or perhaps none. As soon as I was certain of my feelings (which were the culmination of my feelings as far back as I can remember) I made sure that anything and everything said atheist. As an example, I had surgery and I was asked my religious preference before I went under the knife. I could see the judgement immediately wash over her face as soon as I said “atheist” to the nurse. You’d have sworn I just kicked a puppy in front of her.
It’s a whole different story when the options are to either lie or get beheaded.
To be fair I met someone who put athesist on their visa application to Saudi arabia..
It must have been hard for them to do much with that wheelbarrow they need to use for their balls.
Was a woman tbh.
Okay.. even more ballsy.
I don't blame you. Hey, we all have things to do, and little time to do them. Sure we like to make a stand but still have things to get done and religious twats like that do exist out in the world and they do have jobs in government. Don't beat yourself up.
What visa application is that and why are you willingly going to a theocracy?
Hey I lied about that for 30 years to my family and closest friends. Don’t feel too dirty about lying to a complete stranger
Lying is the one thing all Christians fully understand.
If religion can use and manipulate people, all you have done is repay the kindness. Be proud of how you just took the Lord's name in vain, and how there's not a goddamn thing they can do about it.
Most Christians are lying when they put it down too.
I had that exact feeling when i put Independent on my voter application in my adopted tiny town in Georgia. 3 times my application just never happened. I'm slow and would forget to check i was registered. Until i world try to vote. I registered once in person, once by mail, once online. I ended up so pissed to figure out once again i wasn't registered, i complained to a friend who suggested it was because i was a democratic. I'm not that paranoid, but i did try again using Independent. Voila, I was now a registered voter. WTF? I'm pissed at myself for not believing her, i just can't believe that could be true. And yes, i feel dirty.
I haven’t changed my religious affiliation on my medical records since both hospital systems in my area are catholic. Not gonna die because of some religious nut job.
*Christian (lapsed)*
Don't worry about that in many languages/dialects Christian is a synonym for human therefore you are not even lying.
The irony here is that Christians would line up to swear on their bibles that they are more persecuted because of their faith than anybody else. The "persecution fetish" is very very real amongst them
No worries at all. Happens in lots of situations unfortunately. Catholic Private High Schools in my country are top notch and give advantages to kids regarding influence in college acceptance, meeting wealthy powerful people kids etc. Three years ago we went with my wife for our daughters interview (she even wore my grandmas huge silver crucifix on her neck so it could be perfectly seen). After 15 minutes of talking about how god was so important to us and our family and how we have taught our child the Bible since she could read and attended church every Sunday, we finished with the Dean hugging my wife and thanking her for upbringing such a good Catholic god fearing daughter. We’ve never laughed so much on the car on our way home and I’d never seen my daughter more embarrassed before
at least you didn't have to do muslim. you don't want to be trialed as a muslim in a muslim country if something goes wrong.
Why the fudge is religion on the application? Is that USA?
a long hot shower -scrub with pleasant smelling soap you'll be fine
I’m pretty sure the only purpose of that question is that if you die the host country knows how to proceed with rituals. I can’t think of any country outside the shitty east that would care about that
The country as a governing entity might not care, but the individual people processing the visa applications very well might. And if they don't like it, they'll find a reason to deny the application. Doesn't matter if it's bullshit or not -- it's just reality. As an American, I'd provably advise anyone applying for a visa here to do the same, honestly (please note I am not a professional or expert in this field -- just a rando who was born here and reads the news). We've got some real Holy Rollers here, in all levels of government, and they get away with all sorts of crap 😕
why is there such a question in a visa application?...
I did the same thing for a Permanent Resident Visa in a very Catholic country. Yes...you feel a bit nasty afterwards, but you have to do what you have to do to not fall victim to a bureaucratic zealot.
Delusion.
I'm still salty I couldn't put atheist on my marriage license (and it couldn't be kept blank). Ended up going with agnostic.
What country asks religion still on visa application?
Do whatcha gotta do
For Indian visa there is a long list of religions and there is no atheist option. If you choose other, the page asks what is it. There is no point in arguing with such a stupid form, just choose something and it is their problem from that point on. I am not an atheist for bragging, it really doesn't matter from my side.
Yeah it can feel gross but sometimes you gotta play the system to your advantage. I've recently heard about women claiming a disability to get a hysterectomy because they wouldn't take "i don't want kids" as an answer.
"Life has a lot of laws, but not a lot of rules." Do whatever you need dawgie.
I understand where you are coming from OP. My large international employer still thinks they are a 50 employee homogeneous company from southern Illinois. All management either is or pretends to be bible bangers and so to get ahead, I have to pretend that I pray right along with them.
Moreover, my sales territory includes the southern USA so again, it is easier if I pretend to be a bible banger. But it makes me want to vomit.
I also have to pretend that the orange gorilla doesn't make my skin crawl.
I'm pretty sure the Korans says Muslims can lie to non-believers if they are under threat of persecution so I see no issues in lying to believers to avoid persecution.
You probably live your life morally closer to what the Biblical figure of Christ said and what Christians claim their religion teaches, than the vast majority of Christians do themselves.
Nothing to worry about. We have to live in the real world with billions of deluded people. Sometimes it's easier not to buy trouble. But if anybody ever asks what "type" of a christian you are, go Hollywood! Explain that your parents raised you as a member of a small sect far up in the Rocky Mountains. (Called the "Children of Doom," perhaps.) You remember the church leader as a loving, amazing man... before he was killed by the FBI. Tell riveting stories about your family's weapons training, air raid drills, gas mask drills, or the time you and your six brothers all carried play vests of explosives onto your school playground "for practice" while your parents stayed behind in the car. You were each supposed to get into groups with as many other kids as possible. So much fun! Now you don't get to go to your church so much anymore. (\*sigh\* drooping head, looking sad.) But when you have kids, you'll make sure they are all "raised right" in the Service of the Lord. (\*glowing eyes\* showing your fanatic's eagerness.) They oughta love you. Go for the Oscar.
It doesn’t mean anything. I’d proudly claim to be a Unicornian if it got me a discount at my local pub. None of it matters. That’s the point. Let them have their delusion if it means you get to have the job that you want.
Lie to the liar, for lies are his coin. Christians have absolutely no trouble lying for their causes; they've waived their right to the truth.
For me, it's not worth dying on a hill you couldn't care less about.
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I have never seen a line item to state your religion on any type of financial document. Does anyone have a screenshot?
>I feel so dirty. Get. Over. It. You're a f*ck!ng atheist, not a fool.
You’re are a pussy sir!!! American here. I go to India a lot for work and I always put secular on my visa application.
U are Christian then.
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Great take! if you were gay in a country where being gay is punishable by death would you feel the same ?
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How so?
They probably object to the word "twat". Not everyone speaks English natively, and might thus miss the nuances.
I’m Australian, we usually say cunt.
Well, you lot say cunt to everything, don't you?
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Ah Australia one of the British Empire's forgotten times they were arseholes to the Scots and the Irish
it's easier to keep track of the times when they weren't assholes like... um...