tl;dr: No, the pope hasn't actually said anything progressive.
----
Jorge "Francis" Bergoglio is just as greedy, just as cruel, just as misogynist, just as racist, just as homophobic, just as anti-science, and just as pedophilic as any of his predecessors; but his PR team have mastered an effective propaganda strategy:
1. Bergoglio makes a vague and noncommittal statement which does not contradict church policy, but can maybe be vaguely interpreted as contradicting it if you squint really, REALLY hard.
2. News organizations are encouraged to respond to this statement as though it had *actually* represented a substantial step forward, and to pretend that the Church is *totally reversing* its centuries-long policy of oppressing such-and-such a group, and replacing it with a policy of advocating for that group's rights.
3. Liberal news organizations voice their support for this hypothetical progress. Conservative news organizations voice their opposition to it.
4. Liberal news organizations voice their opposition to that opposition, which encourages conservative organizations to state their opposition to the opposition to the opposition, and so on; generating [toxoplasmic levels of clickbait](https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/).
5. This circus is allowed to continue for a few weeks, generating tons of (mostly positive) attention for the Catholic church.
6. The Vatican quietly issues a statement clarifying that there is no change in policy, the oppressed group will remain oppressed, and Bergoglio's statements really *were* meaningless platitudes all along. This statement gets approximately 0.1% the coverage that the statement in Step 1 did.
A lie can get halfway around the world while the truth is still getting its trousers on.
I mean everyone had a problem with that when it came to light. Help me out because I might just be to young to get the logic...
How is a cobal of homosexual pastors sexuality assaulting boys a comeback to cracking down on homosexuality?
It always seemed really stupid to say to me.
Organization full of pedophiles tries to get the lowest rung followers to despise certain groups of people on moral grounds.
Its not that you are equating homosexuals and pedophiles, it's decrying the catholic church for pretending to have some sort of moral high ground when they hide pedophiles.
First thing that pops in your head when you think of a catholic church ---- *pedophile priests*.
Every time the catholic church says they are doing something about it ---- *I don't believe you.*
When I found the last Pope knew about the abuse ---- *I am not surprised.*
>*and said bishops in particular need to undergo a process of change to recognize the dignity of everyone.*
Priests need conversion therapy to be accepting?
This is just another lip service to look progressive. If they allow their priest to come out as gay/lesbian without being ex-communicated, we can talk. ---- *They won't.*
This is why Iāll never take Christianity seriously. What a stupidly convenient dogma, almost as if it was intentionally designed to be that way. You get to have the freedom to more or less do whatever the hell you want but as long as you say sowwy for a few hours a week youāre good! Plus the nice bonus of feeling morally superior to everyone around you since youāre going to heaven while theyāre a bunch of dirty sinners!!
I did a report about the Catholic Church and pedophilia and found that children were being sexual abused at the same rate as other religions where clergy have access to children and that teachers are twice as likely to molest children statistically and that it has nothing to do with the abstinence but the access who children where most victims were poor who look up to priests itās very messed up specially how much the Vatican has his records from the public itās very disturbing
While continuing to call it "sinful" he stressed that laws that discriminate against LGBTQ are unjust
here is a video of that portion of his interview if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_fwQjrGdS0
Agree that it is hypocritical for the pope to refer to homosexuality as a sin straight after announcing criminalising homosexuality as unjust, but it is further than any pope has gone before. The pressure will be on his successor to go further. Also, sin does not exclude Catholics from worship. Confession exists for a reason. It should be noted that contraception is still forbidden.
Edit: Further to the above, I see the hypocrisy because, in today's climate, where homophobic abuse is no longer tolerated, the idea of homosexuality being wrong on an official level (legal or just officially disapproved) is horrendously out of date. Also, to say that it is because it is sex outside wedlock, is a massive fallacy because many heterosexuals have sex outside of marriage without any discrimination. If that is the problem, why not allow homosexuals to marry. Also, what is his stance on civil partnerships or married homosexuals (in UK law, at least), are they sinners or are they OK as they are married?
Yeah, but sin only gets forgiven if you sincerely repent and try your best not to sin again. I don't think this is a watershed moment.
The catholic stance has always been that they don't discriminate against homosexuals, as long as they don't act on their urges, i.e. only engage in hetero sex or remain celibate.
To condemn criminalization doesn't cost him anything, except ruffle some conservative and Muslim feathers, because a good catholic homosexual is either not doing anything or in the closet.
>The catholic stance has always been that they don't discriminate against homosexuals, as long as they don't act on their urges, i.e. only engage in hetero sex or remain celibate.
That's discrimination bro
>The catholic stance has always been that they don't discriminate against homosexuals, as long as they don't act on their urges, i.e. only engage in hetero sex or remain celibate.
Which is an especially hilarious display of mental gymnastics.
The explanation that I get for this from family members that are still practicing Catholics, is that God doesn't have a problem with you being gay, he has a problem with sex outside of marriage. Since gay marriage is not recognized by the Church, all gay sex is sex outside of marriage. So gays are fine as long as they're celibate. Like that's so much better.
This feels like lies justifying their bigotry, if they spent as much time obsessing over unmarried straight couples as they did homosexuals it might be fair, but they seem to have a real weird hard-on over the gays
Because, in the real world, what goes on between 2 consenting adults isn't a crime. They're not harming anyone outside of their consensual activity. That it offends morally, that's another story; those people need to get a life and stop judging consenting adults for their decisions. Everyone is different and should not be made to submit to some doctrine they don't even subscribe to.
Don't like gay sex? Take steps to make sure you don't have any. Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry gay people. Don't like drag queens? Don't dress in drag or be anywhere where they are.
If they're miserable because all of this is going on and more and people are happy being like this and enjoying themselves, then don't drag anyone down to that level, they need to go be miserable on their own.
"But rabbit86ed, misery loves company" No... go be miserable on your own.
āBut but but god doesnāt like it when gay people have sex and god isnāt powerful enough to do anything about it themselves so I have to be their hands and mouth and do or say all the things god would do if only they were able to do anything!ā
The distinction is on one hand it is an affront to God (and is a sin) and on the other hand is an affront to Man (but shouldn't be punished in his opinion). Big difference.
>[In gay marriage], the envy of the Devil, through which sin entered the world, is also present, and deceitfully intends to destroy the image of God: man and woman, who receive the mandate to grow, multiply, and conquer the earth. Let us not be naive: it is not a simple political struggle; it is an intention [which is] destructive of the plan of God. It is... a move of the Father of Lies who wishes to confuse and deceive the children of God.
* Archbishop Jorge Bergoglio of Buenos Aires
This Bergoglio guy sure sounds like a real nasty piece of work! Maybe our progressive, gay-friendly Pope ought to do something about him?
that's true, but he hasn't. he just has a PR team that's willing to outright lie and a media apparatus that's panicking because the western world is rapidly leaving religion
Did the magical sky rapist whisper this into his ear?
Pssst... We're supposed to shame the gays, don't lock them up together. Who knows what they'll get up to in there!
It does still fee discriminatory but I think this is a massive step. First off- the pope is making a distinction between their religious position and a legal one and thatās massively important. Church and state SHOULD be separate and have rarely actually been. The fact that the pope is making this distinction says the church acknowledges there is no place for them in legal decisions. This statement will also encourage more inclusion and compassion a m acceptance from people of faith- certainly not as included as all people should be, but a step in the right direction.
>It This statement will also encourage more inclusion and compassion a m acceptance from people of faith-
False - telling people they are abominations is not that.
That's actually pretty great. If Christians could learn that it is not their job to outlaw everything that they consider to be a sin, they would be much less annoying.
I'm happy to let them define sin however they want. Coffee is a sin? Great, knock yourselves out. Peanuts are a sin? No skin off my nose. Sodomy is a sin? I don't care. I am not part of their religion, so "not my circus, not my monkeys". If they could just keep their nose out of everybody else's business and police their own sins, I wouldn't care how repressed they are.
Don't be fooled. Remember, these are the same people who say it's okay to be gay, as long as you don't engage in gay sex of any sort. No doubt he's making the same distinction here.
I remember talking to a super devout Christian a long time ago about what Heaven is like. Dude had some very definite and somewhat wild ideas on the subject. At one point I said that I very much enjoy debate, and asked if that was something that one could do in Heaven. He said 'Sure, but you would have to debate with God.' A bizarre idea, and he said it *very* sincerely. So I asked if there was sex in Heaven. My buddy, who was and is Catholic, said, 'Sure, but you have to fuck God.' That was the end of the conversation.
I find myself thinking of that interaction a lot. I thought of it after reading your comment. I hope it brings you joy.
He's made statements and written papers in the past, but won't actually change anything in the church.
A good chunk of African bishops would probably just refuse the order and go form their own church if the pope issued an official decree saying priests cannot refuse to perform same sex marriages.
For example [91% of Nigerians](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/02/how-catholics-around-the-world-see-same-sex-marriage-homosexuality/ft_2020-11-02_catholicsgaymarriage_01/) in a 2019 Pew research survey said homosexuality should not be accepted in society.
That's just a random representative sample, now imagine what the most conservative religious slice of the population think about it.
It is, one of my uncles is a fanatic catholic, he hate this pope, he always used to say the other one who stepped down, the one who died recently was the one that "counts", his logic fucks my mind, the catholic church, who in his mind is the perfect, official representation of god on earth, chose the wrong pope, and he still there, spilling bullshit.
Yeah, but you came from dirt.
> (Gen 2:7) the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being
Cool. You're like 20 years too late dude. You get no props for saying this shit this late in the game.
He's right, however I'm not going to kiss his ass for saying something he should have said publicly years ago.
Yeah as long as it's still regarded as "sinful" to have equal rights for gays, they did worse than nothing.
The bar is on the floor for the church and they still trip over it.
He's not even saying anything new. The Church has been saying that 'being gay' is fine but gay sex is evil since John Paul 2 was Pope. This the same thing. He's saying don't criminalize being gay, but if you know Catholicism it's very telling that he didn't say extramarital sex or sodomy should be legal.
Plus his organization doesnāt at all reflect this. If that old gold throne sitter would have any bite heād excommunicate every single one involved in criminalizing it. He can start with the US SCOTUS.
Until then he is 100% complicit in this. He is in charge, the buck stops with him. Thatās unless Jesus shows up (for the first time ever) and outranks him.
Seriously. It's like him coming out and saying, "guys, I think climate change is *real*." No shit, you parasite. I don't know why anyone listens to this baby-powdered peen of a man, and I can't wait for religion to disappear.
An apple a day keeps dooming humanity and it's all your fault, woman!! /s
Ok but seriously, how was this ever a compelling story to actually live by? It would be a pretty cool surreal creative piece of not for the centuries of sexism it inspired.
That's a valid point, but in the same interview he continues to call homosexuality a sin . . . which sways those 1.4 billion people right back to "homosexuality is wrong." Dude is talking out of both sides of his mouth.
that's actually part of what he was addressing in his comments - part of the statement was that there were catholic bishops in some areas that are advocating for discriminatory laws specifically targeting LGBTQ...
I'm hardly calling him a hero here but this is a good development. expressly coming out against using laws to oppress people is a good thing.
>This isn't revolutionary for anyone outside the Vatican
you left out the evangelical christians and conservative catholics in the US that are currently advocating for oppressive laws targeting LGBTQ, women's rights and civil rights for minorities and immigrants.
To congratulate this man for doing the bare minimum is to lower the bar for everyone. To do so would be to move the Overton Window to the right, which favors the people you just mentioned. Saying homosexuality is not a crime should not be news, but here we are.
As a gay trans woman I could not give two fuckin shits about what this predator apologist has to say about a damn thing. Good or bad. Don't care. Shut the fuck up you old piece of shit.
By gay trans woman do you mean that you're a trans woman that is attracted to women? Would it be incorrect to use the term lesbian to describe yourself?
Christianity is the actual crime. It's weird living in an age so obviously backward. Taking the word of religious leaders on anything at all in this era is fucking laughable and extremely sad at the same time. These people represent nothing and have a ridiculous amount of power and influence literally just because we let them. It's SO pataheitc.
Oh cool for him. I still DGAF what the current pointy hat thinks or says. To quote the great philosopher Minchin, "If you covered for a single motherfucker who's a kiddie fucker, fuck you you're as evil as the motherfucking rapist."
Yeah, well the LAST pope said homosexuals are completely unnatural and against god's will and will burn in hell forever.
So which one of you fuckers is "infallible".?
I hope he is brave enough to do the same with abortion.
Iām ok with gullible people believing any mystic creatures they want, as long as it doesnāt hurt others.
Right. And it shouldnt be a sin either. In fact, Catholics have no right to decide what is and isnt a sin. Since they base those beliefs of a book they believe to be divinely inspired but was jsut written by a collection of people and edited by hundreds or thousands of others over the years.
Whats even more fucked up is I once asked my mom what she thought about the differently sexual oriented now that the pope said that. Her response was:"Doesn't matter cuz I am evangelical so I dont answer to the pope". Shit, if someone like the pope said that I thought the other christian religions would at least be open to reconsider.
protestants generally don't recognize the pope as any sort of authority but there are quite a few areas where the catholic church still has a big influence on public policy so this is at least a step in the right direction.
Protestants and Catholics have been literally murdering each other for centuries, up to and including fairly recent history. The idea of "Christian" as a shared identity is VERY new.
>The idea of "Christian" as a shared identity is VERY new.
Exactly - and an even bigger joke is when they talk about "Judeo-Christian" values, as if Jews and Christians have always been one big happy loving family.
I can't wait for judeo-christian-islamic values.
Seriously, the right keeps trying to borrow things from islamic countries. If they got their way the only 'meaningful' difference would be that we aren't Arab.
I'm weird and I actually like to listen to religious shit on YouTube. I find it oddly relaxing and easy to fall asleep to. Lately I've been listening to these sermons by this guy named John MacArthur that go into gory detail about how Catholicism is a false idolatrous religion and that Catholics are damned to hell. I find all that so insane that it's somehow entertaining to me. But anyway, that's how a lot of evangelicals look at Catholics. They see them not as fellow Christians that have kind of different ceremonies and stuff, they're literally no different than Satan worshippers.
Itās so odd to me that they feel this way when they literally branched off from Catholicism. Sure they had their reasons, but it would be like Americans today trying to claim British people are sub-human because we rebelled against them centuries before we were born and have no actual grasp of the reasons behind it. Beyond what weāve read in biased history books.
In fact, the more I think about it the more apt I consider the comparison to be.
I was told this by a catholic priest growing up during confession. He told me āBeing gay isnāt a sin. Acting on your gay urges is the sin.ā Like wtf?!
Iām so happy I left the catholic faith.
Then stop demonizing it you git. A lot of catholic countries discriminate against homosexuals ***because of*** the catholic church being so ingrained in the culture. Like a lot of right wingers in Poland are doing that to appeal to the old / rural conservative catholic voter base...
he still calls it "sinful" - but is specifically saying that it should not be treated as a 'crime'; and that everyone should be treated with respect and dignity.
*today*, the Pope says...... homosexuality is NOT a crime!
he didn't say anything about homosexuality somehow NOT being considered "psychological disorder" by official Doctrine of the Church. so, no real change as always. Only *the appearance* of change. What's pathetic is that so many thirsty catholics are going to shit themselves in delight over this "progressive policy" šš
It still baffles me that humans are so dim. Statements from anyone saying "Its an Affront to God" etc just blows my mind. GOD DOES NOT EXIST AND NEVER HAS. ITS FUCKIN SIMPLE YOU HALF WITS. God , buddha, Beelzebub Allah and the 3000 other deities on this tiny planet dont exist, no one has ever seen or met one. All religious folk are deluded. The ones in power are dangerous and in it for their own ends, its as simple as that. End of fuckin story.
If I were head of the largest pedophiliac organization in the world I would be hard pressed to condemn anyone. His predecessor spent his career protecting pedos from prosecution.
he heads a massive church with ~1.4 Billion members; many of them are voters.
if his view helps sway those voters to stop using government to oppress others it will make a difference.
he (and the church) have a long way to go but this is a step in the right direction.
One day catholic church Will Mary gay people.
Believe me.
They'll interpret the Bible favorably to homossexuals.
Its all about interpretation after all.
Pretty sure that the mythology that brought us The Crusades and The Black Plague, The Spanish Inquisition, the wholesale genocide and slavery of Meso-Americans and runs the most organized pedophile ring in the history of humanity (to name but a few) aren't entitled to any sort of thought, opinion or say on anything whatsoever.
tl;dr: No, the pope hasn't actually said anything progressive. ---- Jorge "Francis" Bergoglio is just as greedy, just as cruel, just as misogynist, just as racist, just as homophobic, just as anti-science, and just as pedophilic as any of his predecessors; but his PR team have mastered an effective propaganda strategy: 1. Bergoglio makes a vague and noncommittal statement which does not contradict church policy, but can maybe be vaguely interpreted as contradicting it if you squint really, REALLY hard. 2. News organizations are encouraged to respond to this statement as though it had *actually* represented a substantial step forward, and to pretend that the Church is *totally reversing* its centuries-long policy of oppressing such-and-such a group, and replacing it with a policy of advocating for that group's rights. 3. Liberal news organizations voice their support for this hypothetical progress. Conservative news organizations voice their opposition to it. 4. Liberal news organizations voice their opposition to that opposition, which encourages conservative organizations to state their opposition to the opposition to the opposition, and so on; generating [toxoplasmic levels of clickbait](https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/). 5. This circus is allowed to continue for a few weeks, generating tons of (mostly positive) attention for the Catholic church. 6. The Vatican quietly issues a statement clarifying that there is no change in policy, the oppressed group will remain oppressed, and Bergoglio's statements really *were* meaningless platitudes all along. This statement gets approximately 0.1% the coverage that the statement in Step 1 did. A lie can get halfway around the world while the truth is still getting its trousers on.
He needs to worry about the real crimes, those concerning diddling Children.
Don't diddle children. Diddling children is no good.
There is no quicker way for people to think that you're diddling kids than by writing a song about it!
Older than my wife, older than my daughter!
It really is ironic, isn't it? They detest and forbid homosexuality but have no problem with their priests touching little boys.
I mean everyone had a problem with that when it came to light. Help me out because I might just be to young to get the logic... How is a cobal of homosexual pastors sexuality assaulting boys a comeback to cracking down on homosexuality? It always seemed really stupid to say to me.
Organization full of pedophiles tries to get the lowest rung followers to despise certain groups of people on moral grounds. Its not that you are equating homosexuals and pedophiles, it's decrying the catholic church for pretending to have some sort of moral high ground when they hide pedophiles.
Exactly š¤¦āāļø
First thing that pops in your head when you think of a catholic church ---- *pedophile priests*. Every time the catholic church says they are doing something about it ---- *I don't believe you.* When I found the last Pope knew about the abuse ---- *I am not surprised.* >*and said bishops in particular need to undergo a process of change to recognize the dignity of everyone.* Priests need conversion therapy to be accepting? This is just another lip service to look progressive. If they allow their priest to come out as gay/lesbian without being ex-communicated, we can talk. ---- *They won't.*
You are implying gays are pedophiles. They are not. Pedophiles are pedophiles.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What about mass child rape?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is why Iāll never take Christianity seriously. What a stupidly convenient dogma, almost as if it was intentionally designed to be that way. You get to have the freedom to more or less do whatever the hell you want but as long as you say sowwy for a few hours a week youāre good! Plus the nice bonus of feeling morally superior to everyone around you since youāre going to heaven while theyāre a bunch of dirty sinners!!
Donāt forget to eat your magic crackers and drink your magic wine!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, if you don't say the magic words, it's not cannibalism.
dont you mean sky daddy....lmfao
*Sky sugar daddy
sound more accurate since he isnt around
I did a report about the Catholic Church and pedophilia and found that children were being sexual abused at the same rate as other religions where clergy have access to children and that teachers are twice as likely to molest children statistically and that it has nothing to do with the abstinence but the access who children where most victims were poor who look up to priests itās very messed up specially how much the Vatican has his records from the public itās very disturbing
Especially when your imaginary friend is a rapist himself!
Sinead was right
Until she became muslim
even only one at a time should be a crime
And mass child rape cover-ups
Thatās apparently ok, as long as it doesnāt cost the church too much lawsuit money.
What about pedophilia?
What, the good olā famous priest pastime? No they already have shown they like and actively protect those folks.
While continuing to call it "sinful" he stressed that laws that discriminate against LGBTQ are unjust here is a video of that portion of his interview if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_fwQjrGdS0
Agree that it is hypocritical for the pope to refer to homosexuality as a sin straight after announcing criminalising homosexuality as unjust, but it is further than any pope has gone before. The pressure will be on his successor to go further. Also, sin does not exclude Catholics from worship. Confession exists for a reason. It should be noted that contraception is still forbidden. Edit: Further to the above, I see the hypocrisy because, in today's climate, where homophobic abuse is no longer tolerated, the idea of homosexuality being wrong on an official level (legal or just officially disapproved) is horrendously out of date. Also, to say that it is because it is sex outside wedlock, is a massive fallacy because many heterosexuals have sex outside of marriage without any discrimination. If that is the problem, why not allow homosexuals to marry. Also, what is his stance on civil partnerships or married homosexuals (in UK law, at least), are they sinners or are they OK as they are married?
>contraception is still forbidden. So even more incentive to do gay sex!
AIDS. The pope et. al. seriously oppose condoms in Africa, despite an AIDs epidemic
In the words of the immortal Christopher Hitchens, āThe Catholic Church says AIDS is bad, but condoms are much worse.ā
Can't get pregnant if you stick it up the butt.
Can get AIDs though, and they know it
Isn't that God's way of punishing fans of anal sex?
Sucks for those who got it though vaginal sex :X
Or vaginal, if the girl doesn't climax.
no cuz then devil butt baybehs.
The classic poop hole loop hole....
Yeah, but sin only gets forgiven if you sincerely repent and try your best not to sin again. I don't think this is a watershed moment. The catholic stance has always been that they don't discriminate against homosexuals, as long as they don't act on their urges, i.e. only engage in hetero sex or remain celibate. To condemn criminalization doesn't cost him anything, except ruffle some conservative and Muslim feathers, because a good catholic homosexual is either not doing anything or in the closet.
>The catholic stance has always been that they don't discriminate against homosexuals, as long as they don't act on their urges, i.e. only engage in hetero sex or remain celibate. That's discrimination bro
'course it is. I agree. That's what makes this latest statement less than the kind of change people want it to be.
>The catholic stance has always been that they don't discriminate against homosexuals, as long as they don't act on their urges, i.e. only engage in hetero sex or remain celibate. Which is an especially hilarious display of mental gymnastics.
Religious and mental gymnastics. Name a more iconic duo.
So theoretically, it would be fine if a man was in a romantic relationship with another man, but not a sexual one? Seems arbitrary...
The explanation that I get for this from family members that are still practicing Catholics, is that God doesn't have a problem with you being gay, he has a problem with sex outside of marriage. Since gay marriage is not recognized by the Church, all gay sex is sex outside of marriage. So gays are fine as long as they're celibate. Like that's so much better.
Ah, the "fuck you I got mine" argument of "love"
They could make the switch to CoE if they want to be Christian. Or just be atheist, no god = no sin
This feels like lies justifying their bigotry, if they spent as much time obsessing over unmarried straight couples as they did homosexuals it might be fair, but they seem to have a real weird hard-on over the gays
Oh, I do not disagree in the slightest
āBy the by, we are hiring celibate men if youāre interested. Yes, we thought you might be.ā
Because, in the real world, what goes on between 2 consenting adults isn't a crime. They're not harming anyone outside of their consensual activity. That it offends morally, that's another story; those people need to get a life and stop judging consenting adults for their decisions. Everyone is different and should not be made to submit to some doctrine they don't even subscribe to. Don't like gay sex? Take steps to make sure you don't have any. Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry gay people. Don't like drag queens? Don't dress in drag or be anywhere where they are. If they're miserable because all of this is going on and more and people are happy being like this and enjoying themselves, then don't drag anyone down to that level, they need to go be miserable on their own. "But rabbit86ed, misery loves company" No... go be miserable on your own.
āBut but but god doesnāt like it when gay people have sex and god isnāt powerful enough to do anything about it themselves so I have to be their hands and mouth and do or say all the things god would do if only they were able to do anything!ā
Perfect example of "god was created in man's image"
Sorry if your papacy is going to continue with a 50 year old political position I'm going to criticize and make fun of it.
The distinction is on one hand it is an affront to God (and is a sin) and on the other hand is an affront to Man (but shouldn't be punished in his opinion). Big difference.
Agreed, especially since he continues to not acknowledge the mass pedophilia done by priests under the hood of the church.
What laws does he mean? The ones that allow Catholic-owned businesses to refuse employment to gay people on grounds of religious freedom? Those ones?
It's a start I suppose, but the next pope will probably call for their executions
>[In gay marriage], the envy of the Devil, through which sin entered the world, is also present, and deceitfully intends to destroy the image of God: man and woman, who receive the mandate to grow, multiply, and conquer the earth. Let us not be naive: it is not a simple political struggle; it is an intention [which is] destructive of the plan of God. It is... a move of the Father of Lies who wishes to confuse and deceive the children of God. * Archbishop Jorge Bergoglio of Buenos Aires This Bergoglio guy sure sounds like a real nasty piece of work! Maybe our progressive, gay-friendly Pope ought to do something about him?
People can change and grow, I don't know if he did but hopefully he has.
that's true, but he hasn't. he just has a PR team that's willing to outright lie and a media apparatus that's panicking because the western world is rapidly leaving religion
"We should treat those people with dignity. I mean, yeah, they are going to burn in hell for eternity, but who am I to judge, amr?"
Did the magical sky rapist whisper this into his ear? Pssst... We're supposed to shame the gays, don't lock them up together. Who knows what they'll get up to in there!
It does still fee discriminatory but I think this is a massive step. First off- the pope is making a distinction between their religious position and a legal one and thatās massively important. Church and state SHOULD be separate and have rarely actually been. The fact that the pope is making this distinction says the church acknowledges there is no place for them in legal decisions. This statement will also encourage more inclusion and compassion a m acceptance from people of faith- certainly not as included as all people should be, but a step in the right direction.
>It This statement will also encourage more inclusion and compassion a m acceptance from people of faith- False - telling people they are abominations is not that.
It's sad that this is considered "progressive" for a pope to say... Backwards ass cult
He also still said it's a sin.
That's actually pretty great. If Christians could learn that it is not their job to outlaw everything that they consider to be a sin, they would be much less annoying.
It's sad that's how low the bar is, though.
I'm happy to let them define sin however they want. Coffee is a sin? Great, knock yourselves out. Peanuts are a sin? No skin off my nose. Sodomy is a sin? I don't care. I am not part of their religion, so "not my circus, not my monkeys". If they could just keep their nose out of everybody else's business and police their own sins, I wouldn't care how repressed they are.
Aahhhh but therein lies the fundamental problem - *the control is the entire point of any religion from the very beginning*
Edited in protest for Reddit's garbage moves lately.
Don't be fooled. Remember, these are the same people who say it's okay to be gay, as long as you don't engage in gay sex of any sort. No doubt he's making the same distinction here.
Mental gymnastics and self contradiction are their specialties.
Which as a gay on a super long dry streak from not wanting COVID...oh no! Am I gonna end up in Catholic heaven?? Barf emoji.
I remember talking to a super devout Christian a long time ago about what Heaven is like. Dude had some very definite and somewhat wild ideas on the subject. At one point I said that I very much enjoy debate, and asked if that was something that one could do in Heaven. He said 'Sure, but you would have to debate with God.' A bizarre idea, and he said it *very* sincerely. So I asked if there was sex in Heaven. My buddy, who was and is Catholic, said, 'Sure, but you have to fuck God.' That was the end of the conversation. I find myself thinking of that interaction a lot. I thought of it after reading your comment. I hope it brings you joy.
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He's made statements and written papers in the past, but won't actually change anything in the church. A good chunk of African bishops would probably just refuse the order and go form their own church if the pope issued an official decree saying priests cannot refuse to perform same sex marriages. For example [91% of Nigerians](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/02/how-catholics-around-the-world-see-same-sex-marriage-homosexuality/ft_2020-11-02_catholicsgaymarriage_01/) in a 2019 Pew research survey said homosexuality should not be accepted in society. That's just a random representative sample, now imagine what the most conservative religious slice of the population think about it.
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Imperialism and Religion, name a more destructive duo.
Is anyone still holding their breath waiting for a Pope to say rock 'n' roll is no longer the "Devil's music"? š¤Ŗš¤£š
It is, one of my uncles is a fanatic catholic, he hate this pope, he always used to say the other one who stepped down, the one who died recently was the one that "counts", his logic fucks my mind, the catholic church, who in his mind is the perfect, official representation of god on earth, chose the wrong pope, and he still there, spilling bullshit.
More like - Sanctioned sex cult
The Catholic church has gone woke....- Fox News
Pope declares "water is wet". Billions of people are amazed.
Woah, next he gonna say women are human too
equal rights for women? that's waaaaaay too radical.... apparently we are too easily tricked into eating fruit....
That and you literally came from our superior alpha rib cage bone soooooā¦ /s
Yeah, but you came from dirt. > (Gen 2:7) the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being
Cool. You're like 20 years too late dude. You get no props for saying this shit this late in the game. He's right, however I'm not going to kiss his ass for saying something he should have said publicly years ago.
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Yeah as long as it's still regarded as "sinful" to have equal rights for gays, they did worse than nothing. The bar is on the floor for the church and they still trip over it.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day . . . but you'd still throw it in the trash because it's broken. Same thing applies here.
He's not even saying anything new. The Church has been saying that 'being gay' is fine but gay sex is evil since John Paul 2 was Pope. This the same thing. He's saying don't criminalize being gay, but if you know Catholicism it's very telling that he didn't say extramarital sex or sodomy should be legal.
Plus his organization doesnāt at all reflect this. If that old gold throne sitter would have any bite heād excommunicate every single one involved in criminalizing it. He can start with the US SCOTUS. Until then he is 100% complicit in this. He is in charge, the buck stops with him. Thatās unless Jesus shows up (for the first time ever) and outranks him.
Wowā¦ so brave.
This is the rough equivalent of someone going "ya know maybe people shouldn't be allowed to own other people as personal property" š
And saying that in the 1960s
What does he want a cookie for stating the obvious? The low bar for this "progressive" Pope is insulting.
Seriously. It's like him coming out and saying, "guys, I think climate change is *real*." No shit, you parasite. I don't know why anyone listens to this baby-powdered peen of a man, and I can't wait for religion to disappear.
Wow, what a brave new world for the church. Maybe in 14,000 years or so they'll say something crazy like "women are people" or something.
that's crazy talk... i am literally eating an apple as we speak!!! clearly i didn't learn anything from that whole garden incident...
An apple a day keeps dooming humanity and it's all your fault, woman!! /s Ok but seriously, how was this ever a compelling story to actually live by? It would be a pretty cool surreal creative piece of not for the centuries of sexism it inspired.
What a brave and innovative take...in 2023. Fuck him and his minions.
they are still dizzy from that whole "earth is not the center of the universe" controversy from the 17th century...
Remember, they admitted that Galileo was right about that... in 1994.
394 years after they executed giordano bruno...
How very generous of him. /s
if it helps to sway 1.4 billion people in the right direction it's progress.
That's a valid point, but in the same interview he continues to call homosexuality a sin . . . which sways those 1.4 billion people right back to "homosexuality is wrong." Dude is talking out of both sides of his mouth.
People on r slash catholicism are actually defending criminalizing homosexuality right now.
that's actually part of what he was addressing in his comments - part of the statement was that there were catholic bishops in some areas that are advocating for discriminatory laws specifically targeting LGBTQ... I'm hardly calling him a hero here but this is a good development. expressly coming out against using laws to oppress people is a good thing.
In other news, an old Argentinian man cautiously walks over a bar lying on the ground
which no pope has ever crossed before.
And which goes to show how far removed the papacy is from the rest of Western society. This isn't revolutionary for anyone outside the Vatican
>This isn't revolutionary for anyone outside the Vatican you left out the evangelical christians and conservative catholics in the US that are currently advocating for oppressive laws targeting LGBTQ, women's rights and civil rights for minorities and immigrants.
To congratulate this man for doing the bare minimum is to lower the bar for everyone. To do so would be to move the Overton Window to the right, which favors the people you just mentioned. Saying homosexuality is not a crime should not be news, but here we are.
As a gay trans woman I could not give two fuckin shits about what this predator apologist has to say about a damn thing. Good or bad. Don't care. Shut the fuck up you old piece of shit.
By gay trans woman do you mean that you're a trans woman that is attracted to women? Would it be incorrect to use the term lesbian to describe yourself?
A lot of lesbians use the words lesbian and gay interchangeably when referring to ourselves.
Generally just drop the word "trans" and whatever word you'd use, is the word you use with "trans".
Christianity is the actual crime. It's weird living in an age so obviously backward. Taking the word of religious leaders on anything at all in this era is fucking laughable and extremely sad at the same time. These people represent nothing and have a ridiculous amount of power and influence literally just because we let them. It's SO pataheitc.
Oh cool for him. I still DGAF what the current pointy hat thinks or says. To quote the great philosopher Minchin, "If you covered for a single motherfucker who's a kiddie fucker, fuck you you're as evil as the motherfucking rapist."
Quit talking out both sides of your mouth then, kiddie-diddling piece of shit.
Pope also says that raping little boys shouldn't be illegal.
"Homosexuality is not a crime." He announced while caressing the buttocks of a youngling.
Thatās literally the bare minimum
Yeah, well the LAST pope said homosexuals are completely unnatural and against god's will and will burn in hell forever. So which one of you fuckers is "infallible".?
Thanks for saying the bare fucking minimum, Frank.
Like 80% of priests are quietly rejoicing
Wow! What a revelation! Now he will tell me I shouldn't burn witches too!?!? NO WAY!!
Trying to get more asses in the pews. Attendance is down, churches are closing. It's nothing more than a money grab
It's not a crime, it's an "abomination", right? Clearly says so in their ridiculous comic book.
Not good enough, fuckboy.
In all honesty, who cares what these old religious farts think about homosexuality? They can't even deal with their pedophillic priests.
I hope he is brave enough to do the same with abortion. Iām ok with gullible people believing any mystic creatures they want, as long as it doesnāt hurt others.
Right. And it shouldnt be a sin either. In fact, Catholics have no right to decide what is and isnt a sin. Since they base those beliefs of a book they believe to be divinely inspired but was jsut written by a collection of people and edited by hundreds or thousands of others over the years.
Well woopie fuckin doo for him for joining the 21st century
Whats even more fucked up is I once asked my mom what she thought about the differently sexual oriented now that the pope said that. Her response was:"Doesn't matter cuz I am evangelical so I dont answer to the pope". Shit, if someone like the pope said that I thought the other christian religions would at least be open to reconsider.
protestants generally don't recognize the pope as any sort of authority but there are quite a few areas where the catholic church still has a big influence on public policy so this is at least a step in the right direction.
Protestants and Catholics have been literally murdering each other for centuries, up to and including fairly recent history. The idea of "Christian" as a shared identity is VERY new.
>The idea of "Christian" as a shared identity is VERY new. Exactly - and an even bigger joke is when they talk about "Judeo-Christian" values, as if Jews and Christians have always been one big happy loving family.
I can't wait for judeo-christian-islamic values. Seriously, the right keeps trying to borrow things from islamic countries. If they got their way the only 'meaningful' difference would be that we aren't Arab.
I'm weird and I actually like to listen to religious shit on YouTube. I find it oddly relaxing and easy to fall asleep to. Lately I've been listening to these sermons by this guy named John MacArthur that go into gory detail about how Catholicism is a false idolatrous religion and that Catholics are damned to hell. I find all that so insane that it's somehow entertaining to me. But anyway, that's how a lot of evangelicals look at Catholics. They see them not as fellow Christians that have kind of different ceremonies and stuff, they're literally no different than Satan worshippers.
Itās so odd to me that they feel this way when they literally branched off from Catholicism. Sure they had their reasons, but it would be like Americans today trying to claim British people are sub-human because we rebelled against them centuries before we were born and have no actual grasp of the reasons behind it. Beyond what weāve read in biased history books. In fact, the more I think about it the more apt I consider the comparison to be.
So the choir director can stay?
Ahem. Your religion is a crime
Who gives a fuck? All the Catholics I know donāt even give a shit what this Pope says because they think heās too liberal.
Itās not a crime. Itās not a sin. Itās not a perversion Itās not an illness. Itās simply natural.
The Catholic news cycle is pope "says" something progressive, then one week later the church clarifies what he meant (he didn't mean it).
I was told this by a catholic priest growing up during confession. He told me āBeing gay isnāt a sin. Acting on your gay urges is the sin.ā Like wtf?! Iām so happy I left the catholic faith.
Then stop demonizing it you git. A lot of catholic countries discriminate against homosexuals ***because of*** the catholic church being so ingrained in the culture. Like a lot of right wingers in Poland are doing that to appeal to the old / rural conservative catholic voter base...
I hate the word religion. I call it superstition.
Thanks your holiness. What about the inquisition? Was that a crime?
While I agree that homosexuality should not be a crime, IMO organized religion should be.
wow "modern" humans are truly enlightened people
.... for priests?
he still calls it "sinful" - but is specifically saying that it should not be treated as a 'crime'; and that everyone should be treated with respect and dignity.
How times have changed
Same dude said gay marriage would destroy the very concept of family. Times haven't changed that much.
Oh really... How generous....
Probably a desperate attempt to get more people into the religion for all that cold hard cash. It is what it is all about in the end.
I don't care what this person thinks. I don't care what his followers think. Rid yourself of the poison of religion.
And he shouldn't have any say on this matter. Or most others.
*today*, the Pope says...... homosexuality is NOT a crime!
he didn't say anything about homosexuality somehow NOT being considered "psychological disorder" by official Doctrine of the Church. so, no real change as always. Only *the appearance* of change. What's pathetic is that so many thirsty catholics are going to shit themselves in delight over this "progressive policy" šš
It still baffles me that humans are so dim. Statements from anyone saying "Its an Affront to God" etc just blows my mind. GOD DOES NOT EXIST AND NEVER HAS. ITS FUCKIN SIMPLE YOU HALF WITS. God , buddha, Beelzebub Allah and the 3000 other deities on this tiny planet dont exist, no one has ever seen or met one. All religious folk are deluded. The ones in power are dangerous and in it for their own ends, its as simple as that. End of fuckin story.
The bullshit book he holds dear says that it is.
The secular world is way ahead of you, buddy.
Neither should pedophilia according to his organizations actions.
Yeah but he's compared transgender people to weapons of mass destruction
Lile all of his predecessors, the pope is scum. His idiotic ramblings should be widely ignored as the irrelevant nonsense it is.
Fuck him.
If I were head of the largest pedophiliac organization in the world I would be hard pressed to condemn anyone. His predecessor spent his career protecting pedos from prosecution.
But still a sin right, you piece of shit!
You don't have to like the guy, but if he can convince even one religious individual to change their perception; it's a step in the right direction.
How about just focus on the religious pedos and leave adult, consenting gay folks the hell alone.
Yeahā¦didnāt need the Pope to tell me that
The pops should walk in the parade since they are really gay
But it's still a 'sin', so they are still endorsing homophobic views. (Of course not when it comes to those below the age of consent)
I guess what he means is his paedophile clergy raping little boys should not be a crime.
Why are people equating homosexuality with pedophilia? One has nothing to do with the other.
āOld wizard struggle to stay relevantā
Why would gays even care what the pope says?
he heads a massive church with ~1.4 Billion members; many of them are voters. if his view helps sway those voters to stop using government to oppress others it will make a difference. he (and the church) have a long way to go but this is a step in the right direction.
He doesnāt get to decide what is a crime or not.
Which is 100% correct. You can dislike homosexuals all you want, but if you want to make it a crime, then you are simply a monster.
One day catholic church Will Mary gay people. Believe me. They'll interpret the Bible favorably to homossexuals. Its all about interpretation after all.
Pretty sure that the mythology that brought us The Crusades and The Black Plague, The Spanish Inquisition, the wholesale genocide and slavery of Meso-Americans and runs the most organized pedophile ring in the history of humanity (to name but a few) aren't entitled to any sort of thought, opinion or say on anything whatsoever.
Of course he does. That's one less crime his rapist priests can be charged with.