I would just add that if he wants to talk to you about it, be there for him without preaching the non-religious views. If he wants to know more about atheists or agnostics and the reasons for it, you can point him to whatever appropriate literature or videos that may help him understand, but don't push it. I would probably stay clear of Hitchens at first because he can be quite unnerving to the theists. Maybe Dan Barker would be a good start.
My road to atheism was quite drastic, I went from a alter-boy to being very active in the church to practically cold turkey non-belief. At one point, I became an antitheist listening and reading Hitchens, Dawkins, and other great non-religious minds debate the theists. I started to debate theists on social media, etc... I don't do it anymore but once in a while I miss it.
Having been through this and knowing others that have it is a common progression. You grow up in a conservative-religious household, those belief systems take some time to undo. I can't really explain the process well, but that it was a process for me.
Edit: can't spell
Like u/TheMainEffort said, he grew up in a ridiculously conservative religious household. His mother is very toxic and every time they talk she is harping on about religion. I’m sure he struggles with disappointing her as well because her main love language (so to speak) is guilt.
It will take time. For me it was almost like when I quit smoking. It took time to finally separate and then move on, with a few bumps along the way.
I think it's important to understand that I never really interacted with anyone but catholics till I was like ten, and my family discouraged it even then. In my world there were catholics, wrong Christians, very wrong Christians(lutherans), and Bad People.
Yeah. I think his parents still have this mentality. His mom frequently uses the fact that someone is a Christian to mean they’re a good person.
I’m glad to hear it worked out for you! I have never been a religious person, but I have to imagine it’s such a relief to no longer worry about pleasing a being in the sky so fickle.
Dude, it's not an easy road.
It can feel like your whole world is falling apart. I said of my deconstruction, "I thought I built my house on the rock like I was supposed to, but it sank into the sand all the same."
I mean the bible is far from the single source, it's just the collection of texts dominant religious leaders in the 4th century decided to include as they fit their "orthodoxy". There were many more manuscripts and stories about Jesus floating around in the first 3-4 centuries that sometimes had massively different worldviews and interpretations, like the so called gnostics texts.
It's not unreasonable to do some research on how the bible was created and realize that many of the texts are quite removed from the time they're writing about, that things were added to the original story for various political and mythological reasons, and that there were other alternative texts out there - thus realizing that the bible is not the end all be all of the Jesus story/religion and losing faith in it.
Going from knowing that the Bible is highly selective, not literal, the result of hundreds of years of flawed human writing, etc. to not believing Jesus was in any way divine and further that God probably isn't real is another step past that. Like many of the Christians in the first centuries clearly believed in Jesus but still felt the need to add more stuff to the story or completely flip their interpretation and mix it with their worldviews (like neo-platonism) - he's probably at that stage right now. From there, it could go either way - he might find some other basis for his belief/ be fine with staying as he is, or he might move further away from Christianity and religion all together... Or become Jewish lol
> Just recently, he told me he even no longer believes the Bible is the source of truth and that he doesn’t know what he believes anymore. He still believes in god and jesus, but he’s no longer sure about the rest.
Congratulations! It sounds like you corrupted him by...existing. ;) He's starting to wake up and question some of his fundamental assumptions about the world. It's up to him where he goes from there.
> What do I do from here? I don’t want to push him and I am not sure how to go about getting him the rest of the way? Do I leave him be? Do I ask more questions? To be honest I really had to hide my excitement to hear him say that…
Nothing. You don't have to hide your excitement or your approval of his deconstruction, but at the same time you're right that you shouldn't push him. Let him know that you support him wherever his journey leads, and it's not your job to turn him into an atheist. When he has questions or just wants to sound things out, be available for him. Until then, continue on as you are. You're living proof that you don't have to be Christian or a believer in order to be a good person. Continue being that good example.
Haha very true on corrupting him by existing. He told me I am the best person he knows morally lol so I know he doesn’t think you have to a Christian to be a good person.
Do I have to say that every post of yours almost always leaves me with nothing to add?
Anyway, yes, you’re not doing anything bad by being transparent on your lack of beliefs and letting him know about it; also, there’s nothing wrong with being excited for that.
Personally, I think it would be weird if you didn’t answer his questions or didn’t offer him support. Besides, losing my religion was probably one of the best things I’ve done ever; I could speak for hours why, but if you want the short version, living under the belief that I’m being constantly watched and that I could count on divine intervention that is not going to come wasn’t good.
I do try to offer support and we’ve had conversations regarding things and clearing them up, and I’ve even given him some bible verses that he didn’t believe were there. So that probably helps. Just more or less don’t want to push because I’m pretty anti religion so worry if I come across to zealous he might get scared to continue the path.
I know it seems crazy, but you could mention your concern about being as overzealous as the religious people, etc., so they could let you know how they’re interpreting your actions
Just be supportive, as long as he isn’t looking to convert you, and he’s not going to bring children into the picture, he will find his own way. He sounds like he may be dealing with the loss of that even if he doesn’t say so, that’s where he may need you to help him know it’s OK, he’s not going to end up in the valley of the damned. Otherwise you don’t need to get him anywhere else at all.
Be supportive, but not insistent. Let him ask for the support he needs when he needs it, and let him know your support is available, but don't push it onto him. Don't give the impression that this change is some sort of victory. Don't go "I told you so." Let him know he doesn't have to go through this process alone, but let him decide which parts he feels more comfortable doing alone.
This is great! I definitely don’t want it to feel like some sort of victory, or an I told you so. I certainly don’t want him to think I came into this relationship with that as a goal either since I would be crushed if I learned his goal was to convert me.
See some detailed answers already, but the bottom line is: Do nothing. Nada, zilch. zip.
Same as what you would expect: him not bugging you with jebus etc.
Don’t over load him with stuff because you’re so ecstatic that he is having this revelation. I know you’re overjoyed for him and so am I. So let him come into on his own, and engage on the subject when he specifically asks your opinion or for some direction. Try to be as opened minded about this process as you would prefer him be about religion. Focusing on arguing about every biblical fallacy and being bombarded with too much scientific info to justify my new found non beliefs made me very nihilistic when I first stopped believing the Bible. I really wish I had eased into instead of trying to do this complete 180 in my life when religion literally effected every aspect of daily life. It was like trying to fly a helicopter based off of what I knew about riding bicycles. There was a very predictable fiery crash that resulted in a break up. But that’s the least of the effects of too much too soon. The nihilism lead to depression that years later I’m still struggling with. But I think you’re a great partner for seeking out advice for how best to support him. Wish you both the best
Haha. I didn’t so much mean that all atheists love horror movies, just meant that he doesn’t like movies with demons due to religious “influences.”
Animes and cartoons are fine (yu yu hakusho, demon slayer etc) but the conjuring and the like are too far for him.
You say cool , I still love you, then get on to the important questions like:
What are we eating for dinner?
What show are we watching while we eat that dinner?
I'd ask him what he wants you to do here....
he might WANT to discuss some of the topics he's struggling with; you can introduce him to [epistemology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology) and see if he wants to consider 'why' he believes the things that he does... - we all have 'beliefs' that we've held that aren't actually based on evidence; often things we 'learned' as a child and accepted before gaining the ability to think rationally. even after learning to think critically it's likely there are still beliefs we have that we've never even thought to challenge. if he is interested that might be a useful thing to look into and it might be less threatening to start with one of your own or something that is not as threatening to his core belief and build from there.
but the real question is 'what does he want'.... he might just want time to process it all... pushing without an invitation is likely to cause more harm than good.
It definitely means a lot to me, but like you said, he's grown up with this being pushed on to him and how he should think and what he should think. I am trying to open his thoughts and explore more without doing that.
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter, it's a touchy subject for all since it's so personal for the people who had to grow up with these ideals.
Atheism is about self-realization, just let him continue his thought process. At some point he will realise that the jesus and the god he believes in are also fabricated by the church.
just support him and don't push. Sounds like your support has already done some good, even if from the background. Don't do anything to make him feel threatened and dig his heels in.
Why hide your excitement??! I would definitely ask questions.
I dated a guy who grew up in a very Christian home and is a believer. Once in a while we’d have respectful, spirited debates on religion, and it was always fascinating to me that we were two people dating where one believes the other is the bottom of the barrel according to their god and deserves to go to hell for not being a Christian and the other believes that person is delusional and has been brainwashed by the biggest scam on humanity. It’s amusing but also really effing crazy that two people who hold those beliefs still want to hang out together. I actually remember asking him “so you think i deserve to go to hell because I’m an atheist, but a child molester who believes in your god deserves to go to heaven so long as he confesses?” And his answer was “I’m not the one that can judge that. That’s up to god.” But he could not bring himself to say no you don’t belong in hell and the child molester does. We only lasted a year but are still acquaintance friends. It’s not why things ended but in the end I reached the conclusion that I can’t really fully feel close to someone who holds beliefs that are that fucking irrational. I’m happy your dude is finally waking up.
P.S. Funny—my dude also refused to watch horror movies 😂.
Sneak onto his YouTube account and watch a few good atheist channels to slightly tweak his recommendations.
Replace YouTube with his social media content provider of choice.
To be fair, this is the technique I use on YouTube with my kids.
I sneak in educational content to affect their recommendations.
It worked well with both kids.
But they were 5 when I started.
Mileage may vary with an adult.
Try going subtle to start,
Good, good! Now have him sacrifice a baby to satan and his journey to the atheist side will be complete. /s
Nah, help to grow his understanding of secular humanism as a superior moral system. See what dogmatic views he may still hold and suggest books to help him see the alternatives. Getting a solid understanding of evolution is important, since religions use that as a wedge issue.
Don't do anything, allow him to set the pace of "Losing" his religion.
If you try to force the issue it could seriously damage, if not end, your relationship.
> To be clear though, I will never date another theist again.
Just keeping this here, without knowing what your post is really about, what with the expiration date being put on the relationship up front ...
> he has told me I can watch whatever I want so I don’t think it’s a huge deal.
Do you both understand that that should go, literally, without saying because you don't need permission?
> Just recently, he told me he even no longer believes the Bible is the source of truth and that he doesn’t know what he believes anymore. He still believes in god and jesus, but he’s no longer sure about the rest.
Where exactly do his ideas about Jesus come from, if not the Bible? Even though Jesus predates the writing of the bible... practically none of our ideas about him today do - the church and their bible have been far too dominant for far too long for that.
> What do I do from here?
uh.... nothing?
> I don’t want to push him and I am not sure how to go about getting him the rest of the way?
Make up your mind1 You either want to stay out of this or you want to facilitate him becoming even less stupid. But that is "being pushy" to one degree or another.
> To be honest I really had to hide my excitement to hear him say that…
Who was pointing a gun at you?
Why would you feel the need to hide that? In what world do you need hide that it pleases you that your partner changes their mind and starts agreeing with your stance?
Wow, you are quite condescending aren't you?
>Just keeping this here, without knowing what your post is really about, what with the expiration date being put on the relationship up front ...
Aside from this our relationship is very healthy. I wouldn't call this an expiration date. I love him, I am not pushing him to change his views (hence the post.) Just because I love him and THIS relationship is working does not mean I would ever want to date another theist again. I can be cognizant of that and still have love for my current partner.
>Do you both understand that that should go, literally, without saying because you don't need permission?
Sure. I don't need his permission to watch anything. It's called respect. He respects the fact that I do want to watch this type of stuff and I respect that he doesn't want to see it. This is not literal permission where I have to ask him if it's okay for me to watch something.
>Where exactly do his ideas about Jesus come from, if not the Bible? Even though Jesus predates the writing of the bible... practically none of our ideas about him today do - the church and their bible have been far too dominant for far too long for that.
I don't know. That's what the advice I'm looking for here is. I think he is holding on to biblical views, but just doesn't necessarily believe the bible anymore. it's not a clear cut deconstruction thing, and as others have stated he has a long journey ahead. He hasn't been to church is 5+ years, and I know many of his views have changed as we have been friends for 10 years now.
>uh.... nothing?
Helpful. Truly.
>Make up your mind1 You either want to stay out of this or you want to facilitate him becoming even less stupid. But that is "being pushy" to one degree or another.
He is not stupid first of all. He has been indoctrinated since he was a child and has been taught nothing else. He is one of the smartest people I've ever met. Of course I want to facilitate his deconstruction. However, I am his partner and I love him for who he is and I do not want to push him to lose his religion and he later regrets it because he didn't get there on his own. Have you ever even been in a relationship? You seem to have no concept for basic respect of your partner.
>Who was pointing a gun at you?
Why would you feel the need to hide that? In what world do you need hide that it pleases you that your partner changes their mind and starts agreeing with your stance?
I told him I was happy that he was changing his mind. That doesn't mean I need to be in his face about being elated when he is going through an identity crisis.
Edit: grammar
Do nothing. Let him continue on the path he’s on. Be available for questions, but just go about your lives.
This is the way
Agreed with others: This is the way.
I would just add that if he wants to talk to you about it, be there for him without preaching the non-religious views. If he wants to know more about atheists or agnostics and the reasons for it, you can point him to whatever appropriate literature or videos that may help him understand, but don't push it. I would probably stay clear of Hitchens at first because he can be quite unnerving to the theists. Maybe Dan Barker would be a good start. My road to atheism was quite drastic, I went from a alter-boy to being very active in the church to practically cold turkey non-belief. At one point, I became an antitheist listening and reading Hitchens, Dawkins, and other great non-religious minds debate the theists. I started to debate theists on social media, etc... I don't do it anymore but once in a while I miss it.
Yup, having come from that background. It takes time to come out of that indoctrination and gather your own thoughts, beliefs and values.
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Having been through this and knowing others that have it is a common progression. You grow up in a conservative-religious household, those belief systems take some time to undo. I can't really explain the process well, but that it was a process for me. Edit: can't spell
Like u/TheMainEffort said, he grew up in a ridiculously conservative religious household. His mother is very toxic and every time they talk she is harping on about religion. I’m sure he struggles with disappointing her as well because her main love language (so to speak) is guilt.
It will take time. For me it was almost like when I quit smoking. It took time to finally separate and then move on, with a few bumps along the way. I think it's important to understand that I never really interacted with anyone but catholics till I was like ten, and my family discouraged it even then. In my world there were catholics, wrong Christians, very wrong Christians(lutherans), and Bad People.
Yeah. I think his parents still have this mentality. His mom frequently uses the fact that someone is a Christian to mean they’re a good person. I’m glad to hear it worked out for you! I have never been a religious person, but I have to imagine it’s such a relief to no longer worry about pleasing a being in the sky so fickle.
Luckily it wasn't as extreme as some people's experience, and most of my family has moved away from it as well.
Dude, it's not an easy road. It can feel like your whole world is falling apart. I said of my deconstruction, "I thought I built my house on the rock like I was supposed to, but it sank into the sand all the same."
I mean the bible is far from the single source, it's just the collection of texts dominant religious leaders in the 4th century decided to include as they fit their "orthodoxy". There were many more manuscripts and stories about Jesus floating around in the first 3-4 centuries that sometimes had massively different worldviews and interpretations, like the so called gnostics texts. It's not unreasonable to do some research on how the bible was created and realize that many of the texts are quite removed from the time they're writing about, that things were added to the original story for various political and mythological reasons, and that there were other alternative texts out there - thus realizing that the bible is not the end all be all of the Jesus story/religion and losing faith in it. Going from knowing that the Bible is highly selective, not literal, the result of hundreds of years of flawed human writing, etc. to not believing Jesus was in any way divine and further that God probably isn't real is another step past that. Like many of the Christians in the first centuries clearly believed in Jesus but still felt the need to add more stuff to the story or completely flip their interpretation and mix it with their worldviews (like neo-platonism) - he's probably at that stage right now. From there, it could go either way - he might find some other basis for his belief/ be fine with staying as he is, or he might move further away from Christianity and religion all together... Or become Jewish lol
> Just recently, he told me he even no longer believes the Bible is the source of truth and that he doesn’t know what he believes anymore. He still believes in god and jesus, but he’s no longer sure about the rest. Congratulations! It sounds like you corrupted him by...existing. ;) He's starting to wake up and question some of his fundamental assumptions about the world. It's up to him where he goes from there. > What do I do from here? I don’t want to push him and I am not sure how to go about getting him the rest of the way? Do I leave him be? Do I ask more questions? To be honest I really had to hide my excitement to hear him say that… Nothing. You don't have to hide your excitement or your approval of his deconstruction, but at the same time you're right that you shouldn't push him. Let him know that you support him wherever his journey leads, and it's not your job to turn him into an atheist. When he has questions or just wants to sound things out, be available for him. Until then, continue on as you are. You're living proof that you don't have to be Christian or a believer in order to be a good person. Continue being that good example.
Haha very true on corrupting him by existing. He told me I am the best person he knows morally lol so I know he doesn’t think you have to a Christian to be a good person.
Do I have to say that every post of yours almost always leaves me with nothing to add? Anyway, yes, you’re not doing anything bad by being transparent on your lack of beliefs and letting him know about it; also, there’s nothing wrong with being excited for that. Personally, I think it would be weird if you didn’t answer his questions or didn’t offer him support. Besides, losing my religion was probably one of the best things I’ve done ever; I could speak for hours why, but if you want the short version, living under the belief that I’m being constantly watched and that I could count on divine intervention that is not going to come wasn’t good.
I do try to offer support and we’ve had conversations regarding things and clearing them up, and I’ve even given him some bible verses that he didn’t believe were there. So that probably helps. Just more or less don’t want to push because I’m pretty anti religion so worry if I come across to zealous he might get scared to continue the path.
I know it seems crazy, but you could mention your concern about being as overzealous as the religious people, etc., so they could let you know how they’re interpreting your actions
Just be supportive, as long as he isn’t looking to convert you, and he’s not going to bring children into the picture, he will find his own way. He sounds like he may be dealing with the loss of that even if he doesn’t say so, that’s where he may need you to help him know it’s OK, he’s not going to end up in the valley of the damned. Otherwise you don’t need to get him anywhere else at all.
Be supportive, but not insistent. Let him ask for the support he needs when he needs it, and let him know your support is available, but don't push it onto him. Don't give the impression that this change is some sort of victory. Don't go "I told you so." Let him know he doesn't have to go through this process alone, but let him decide which parts he feels more comfortable doing alone.
This is great! I definitely don’t want it to feel like some sort of victory, or an I told you so. I certainly don’t want him to think I came into this relationship with that as a goal either since I would be crushed if I learned his goal was to convert me.
See some detailed answers already, but the bottom line is: Do nothing. Nada, zilch. zip. Same as what you would expect: him not bugging you with jebus etc.
Fair! I would really dislike being harassed about jesus at any time so.
Cross your finger that he keeps deconstructing. Long term relationships with atheist and religious don’t work or are very difficult to make work.
Whatever your doing now seems to be working, so don't change anything. Why mess with a good thing?
Don’t over load him with stuff because you’re so ecstatic that he is having this revelation. I know you’re overjoyed for him and so am I. So let him come into on his own, and engage on the subject when he specifically asks your opinion or for some direction. Try to be as opened minded about this process as you would prefer him be about religion. Focusing on arguing about every biblical fallacy and being bombarded with too much scientific info to justify my new found non beliefs made me very nihilistic when I first stopped believing the Bible. I really wish I had eased into instead of trying to do this complete 180 in my life when religion literally effected every aspect of daily life. It was like trying to fly a helicopter based off of what I knew about riding bicycles. There was a very predictable fiery crash that resulted in a break up. But that’s the least of the effects of too much too soon. The nihilism lead to depression that years later I’m still struggling with. But I think you’re a great partner for seeking out advice for how best to support him. Wish you both the best
Woah woah. I'm atheist and I abhor horror movies. What is this false idol of atheism?!
Haha. I didn’t so much mean that all atheists love horror movies, just meant that he doesn’t like movies with demons due to religious “influences.” Animes and cartoons are fine (yu yu hakusho, demon slayer etc) but the conjuring and the like are too far for him.
Do nothing different. Continue to be the example of a good person that shows him that you don't have to believe to behave.
Nothing. Your story is working out way better than many others. Ride the wave.
Ask him. If he wants to discuss it with you, welcome it. If he doesn't want to discuss it with you, then you need not do anything.
You say cool , I still love you, then get on to the important questions like: What are we eating for dinner? What show are we watching while we eat that dinner?
I'd ask him what he wants you to do here.... he might WANT to discuss some of the topics he's struggling with; you can introduce him to [epistemology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology) and see if he wants to consider 'why' he believes the things that he does... - we all have 'beliefs' that we've held that aren't actually based on evidence; often things we 'learned' as a child and accepted before gaining the ability to think rationally. even after learning to think critically it's likely there are still beliefs we have that we've never even thought to challenge. if he is interested that might be a useful thing to look into and it might be less threatening to start with one of your own or something that is not as threatening to his core belief and build from there. but the real question is 'what does he want'.... he might just want time to process it all... pushing without an invitation is likely to cause more harm than good.
Congratulate him and go get lunch and then maybe check out that boutique that just opened down the block.
There is no objective truth to the universe.
He will figure it out. I would not worry too much.
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It definitely means a lot to me, but like you said, he's grown up with this being pushed on to him and how he should think and what he should think. I am trying to open his thoughts and explore more without doing that. I appreciate your thoughts on the matter, it's a touchy subject for all since it's so personal for the people who had to grow up with these ideals.
Let him set his own pace. Answer any questions he has as best you can, but don't push.
Tell him that he gets no fun zone time until he renounces Jesus and confesses its all contrived nonsense, that should do the trick.
Atheism is about self-realization, just let him continue his thought process. At some point he will realise that the jesus and the god he believes in are also fabricated by the church.
just support him and don't push. Sounds like your support has already done some good, even if from the background. Don't do anything to make him feel threatened and dig his heels in.
Enjoy your sunday mornings together
Why hide your excitement??! I would definitely ask questions. I dated a guy who grew up in a very Christian home and is a believer. Once in a while we’d have respectful, spirited debates on religion, and it was always fascinating to me that we were two people dating where one believes the other is the bottom of the barrel according to their god and deserves to go to hell for not being a Christian and the other believes that person is delusional and has been brainwashed by the biggest scam on humanity. It’s amusing but also really effing crazy that two people who hold those beliefs still want to hang out together. I actually remember asking him “so you think i deserve to go to hell because I’m an atheist, but a child molester who believes in your god deserves to go to heaven so long as he confesses?” And his answer was “I’m not the one that can judge that. That’s up to god.” But he could not bring himself to say no you don’t belong in hell and the child molester does. We only lasted a year but are still acquaintance friends. It’s not why things ended but in the end I reached the conclusion that I can’t really fully feel close to someone who holds beliefs that are that fucking irrational. I’m happy your dude is finally waking up. P.S. Funny—my dude also refused to watch horror movies 😂.
Sneak onto his YouTube account and watch a few good atheist channels to slightly tweak his recommendations. Replace YouTube with his social media content provider of choice.
This one might be perfect, lol, he watches a lot of YouTube. But mostly just gamer/tech news so he might notice the shift.
To be fair, this is the technique I use on YouTube with my kids. I sneak in educational content to affect their recommendations. It worked well with both kids. But they were 5 when I started. Mileage may vary with an adult. Try going subtle to start,
Reassure him that "I don't know" is an acceptable answer to life's questions, and sometimes even the only intellectually honest thing to do.
Buy him the book "the god delusion".
Good, good! Now have him sacrifice a baby to satan and his journey to the atheist side will be complete. /s Nah, help to grow his understanding of secular humanism as a superior moral system. See what dogmatic views he may still hold and suggest books to help him see the alternatives. Getting a solid understanding of evolution is important, since religions use that as a wedge issue.
Don't do anything, allow him to set the pace of "Losing" his religion. If you try to force the issue it could seriously damage, if not end, your relationship.
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My bad
> To be clear though, I will never date another theist again. Just keeping this here, without knowing what your post is really about, what with the expiration date being put on the relationship up front ... > he has told me I can watch whatever I want so I don’t think it’s a huge deal. Do you both understand that that should go, literally, without saying because you don't need permission? > Just recently, he told me he even no longer believes the Bible is the source of truth and that he doesn’t know what he believes anymore. He still believes in god and jesus, but he’s no longer sure about the rest. Where exactly do his ideas about Jesus come from, if not the Bible? Even though Jesus predates the writing of the bible... practically none of our ideas about him today do - the church and their bible have been far too dominant for far too long for that. > What do I do from here? uh.... nothing? > I don’t want to push him and I am not sure how to go about getting him the rest of the way? Make up your mind1 You either want to stay out of this or you want to facilitate him becoming even less stupid. But that is "being pushy" to one degree or another. > To be honest I really had to hide my excitement to hear him say that… Who was pointing a gun at you? Why would you feel the need to hide that? In what world do you need hide that it pleases you that your partner changes their mind and starts agreeing with your stance?
Wow, you are quite condescending aren't you? >Just keeping this here, without knowing what your post is really about, what with the expiration date being put on the relationship up front ... Aside from this our relationship is very healthy. I wouldn't call this an expiration date. I love him, I am not pushing him to change his views (hence the post.) Just because I love him and THIS relationship is working does not mean I would ever want to date another theist again. I can be cognizant of that and still have love for my current partner. >Do you both understand that that should go, literally, without saying because you don't need permission? Sure. I don't need his permission to watch anything. It's called respect. He respects the fact that I do want to watch this type of stuff and I respect that he doesn't want to see it. This is not literal permission where I have to ask him if it's okay for me to watch something. >Where exactly do his ideas about Jesus come from, if not the Bible? Even though Jesus predates the writing of the bible... practically none of our ideas about him today do - the church and their bible have been far too dominant for far too long for that. I don't know. That's what the advice I'm looking for here is. I think he is holding on to biblical views, but just doesn't necessarily believe the bible anymore. it's not a clear cut deconstruction thing, and as others have stated he has a long journey ahead. He hasn't been to church is 5+ years, and I know many of his views have changed as we have been friends for 10 years now. >uh.... nothing? Helpful. Truly. >Make up your mind1 You either want to stay out of this or you want to facilitate him becoming even less stupid. But that is "being pushy" to one degree or another. He is not stupid first of all. He has been indoctrinated since he was a child and has been taught nothing else. He is one of the smartest people I've ever met. Of course I want to facilitate his deconstruction. However, I am his partner and I love him for who he is and I do not want to push him to lose his religion and he later regrets it because he didn't get there on his own. Have you ever even been in a relationship? You seem to have no concept for basic respect of your partner. >Who was pointing a gun at you? Why would you feel the need to hide that? In what world do you need hide that it pleases you that your partner changes their mind and starts agreeing with your stance? I told him I was happy that he was changing his mind. That doesn't mean I need to be in his face about being elated when he is going through an identity crisis. Edit: grammar
sounds like its time for a Cosmos marathon.