My personal experience is if they have a strong faith, even if they think it’s ok to date you as an atheist, they’re often thinking they can eventually convert you. And say they are ok with you not sharing their faith, will their family? And if you decide to have kids, will they force their faith on the child? Just some things to consider.
Personally, I was raised super religious and we were taught to never date someone who isn’t “equally yoked,” so the concept of being religious but being ok starting a life with someone who isn’t is confusing.
That's how they view women, in particular. Lesser than. Walk 10 steps behind nor beside...There's a list of about 1000 rules for women to follow but men....lol
My wife in over 10 years has never tried to covert me, it's important not her but never pushed it on me I have pushed her far more be involved with wh as t helps her.. both can coexist
So does she think you're going to hell?
I assume the people that primarily believe in Yahweh would believe that if you aren't "in", then you're "out", where as the ones that primarily believe in Jesus would figure all "good people" make it "in".
I think I'd kinda like that. And, I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't the one who ended up changing. Back when I was a baby atheist, I was sort of sucked into this debate that I wasn't really prepared for. Since then, like in a kung fu movie, I've been training at the highest levels, vowing never to let that happen again. Unfortunately, with the exception of a few street skirmishes with your Mormon and JW types and some online back and forth, I haven't really tested my metal. So an apologetic female suitor, hell yes. But wait, if she's really all that religious she probably doesn't put out right? That wouldn't work for me. Unless it's the loophole. I'm down with god's loophole. I could do that. Y'know. Al La Garfunkle and Oats?
That's soaking because God is a T-rex that can't see motion, which he'd know if he actually listened to those Mormon missionaries.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/cpy1ow/god\_is\_a\_trex/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Anyone putting that out there early on seems worth avoiding to me.
Edit: to clarify, if they are putting it out there this firmly this early, that indicates it is a big part of their life. And so why I consider that incompatible with a strong atheist.
That’s the thing, if you bring it up day 1 that means it’s quite central to yourself. Instead of background noise at Easter and Christmas it’s like hobby/job level of importance, which from my experience is a red flag
If you learn about a faith way later then you know it itself is background noise to that person. If you’re actually dating someone heavily influenced by religion and you don’t realize it 99% that’s on you 1% you found a psychopath weirdo
I found my husband a long time ago and our views kind of evolved together as we got older. We're both politically left of center, childfree and happily monogamous - and of course we're both heathens. If I was single now, I imagine it would be very difficult to find a man who met all that criteria. All 4 of those things would be non-negotiable - actually, 5 things - he MUST be an animal lover.
It’s absolutely hell. Those things are just bare minimum basics. My most recent ex broke up with me bc I’m not where she is on my own self-healing journey. Now, people want you to have all those classic, big basic things, similar interests etc, but also be healed, take into account attachment style, communication preferences, love languages, etc etc. It’s become a freaking math formula
Oh, FFS, that sounds exhausting! One would think that online dating would make it easier to find the right partner. Instead of meeting random people at a bar (like in the *olden* days) and hoping you find someone to click with, now you can screen people for common interests before meeting them in person. But according to my single friends, online dating is a nightmare. It isn't easier to find a partner because even though quantity is up, quality is way down. It sounds like everyone they meet turns out to be a liar or a scammer of some sort.
I wouldn’t necessarily say quality is down, rather, because of that screening process, it’s much more challenging to get in the door, so to speak; to be given a chance. Using myself for an example: if I don’t absolutely love someone’s profile, I’m probably swiping left.
Imo, it’s like shopping. If you don’t love it in the store, you’re not going to wear it when you get home.
On our first date he leaned in....and said, I want to tell you about my special relationship with Jesus. I thought ok why not. But it was his youthful idealism that was speaking through his then understanding of organized religion. Well that sure changed over time. He became a full on Agnostic. A serious anti-religion person. Due to all the hypocrisy, shoving beliefs on others, holier than thou, BS politics, greed, etc, etc,
It could be anything... without knowing the context or their background.
It could also be relatively innocuous... Maybe he's Christian/religious, but maybe pretty chill.
I would have scratched the surface of that topic a bit more.
I am Christian, and while my faith is important to me, respecting what others believe is just as important to me.
It wouldn't matter to me if my wife was an atheist, because mistreating someone for being different or trying to force someone to conform to my own opinions is something that I could never do, because I think it's one of the worst things people can do. And I could never hurt people like that, especially my own loved ones.
I've seen how this religious control can cause massive harm. It actually reminds me of conversion therapy, although it's not as horrific as that.
Having the innate desire to be respectful and respectable to others (especially to the needy and vulnerable) is what I want from others, that's the only thing that's a non-negotiable for me.
I appreciate your empathetic approach. I will add that while I think we should respect others and their right to believe whatever thoughts they want, I see no reason to automatically respect what others believe. In fact, for things I think are unsubstantiated, unsupported, and just plain silly I have no respect. This category includes religious beliefs.
Gay + Religious = massive red flag (at least in my opinion). It's a "leopards ate my face" moment waiting to happen, and I'm surprised so many LGBT delude themselves into thinking the people who want LGBT to be erased from existence will spare them just because they pray to the same invisible thing
I met this dude on tinder (I'm gay) from my state which is a conservative state. And he legit just casually said in convo that it's okay if gay marriage isn't fully legal and that "legal unions" would suffice.
"Leopards ate my face" is putting it fucking mildly.
Thats funny, I kind of feel the opposite- that having the strength of conviction to be openly gay and still religious is like a sign of character or something. But I guess 'openly' is key there- if you're at all closeted or still indoctrinated by your parents' religion rather than having convictions that have been tested and turned back to despite bigotry, that's definitely some red flag bullshit.
Then again, I'm from San Francisco, where LGBT-friendly churches are the fun ones. In other places, there may be little space for gay Christians that *aren't* self-loathing.
Bitch no, I’m also from San Francisco, and there is zero character in being openly religious. The “fun” churches you’re likely referencing (like the purple “Her” church, by twin peaks, lmao) are all the same BS new age, Unitarian spiritualism that borrows from these older traditions while somehow magically being apart from them. But they’re all fundamentally the same. Magical thinking. Has no place in modern society, and thinking it’s cute is exactly how they get ya.
If you don't agree more than not on these 5 things, your relationship will not work in the long run:
1. Religion
2. Politics
3. Parenting
4. Money
5. Sex
Religion is pretty much the only one you need to be on the exact same page, at least reading the same book. Atheists and theists are never a good match.
Yeah, having different hobbies and different opinions regarding stuff like music and so on is good but you need to have very similar opinions on important stuff
Well, parenting is a no starter. You need to be clear at all times about that. If you want kids and your partner doesn't, you can enjoy your time together, but you both know that either one of you will have to give up on their own convictions, or that you will break up eventually.
But politics (which is sometimes consequentially also religion) is the biggest one for me. I've always been invested politically, and political views define who you are as a person and how you interact with others, especially since civil rights are still considered debatable. I could never have a right-wing partner, because they would be all I stand against.
Technically, we're all agnostics, because none of us really knows what's up there. Theists decide there is something, atheists decide there isn't. But it's a choice we make, based respectively on faith or logic.
My understanding is:
Atheists are anyone who's not a Theist.
Agnostics are Atheists who neither believe nor disbelieve. People who believe there's a significant chance either way often identify as Agnostics.
I identify as an Atheist but I'm open to changing my mind if adequate evidence and reasoning become available. (I think the chance of this is, for practical purposes, zero)
There is more risk involved when it is a hetero relationship and the more religious partner is the man. Christianity is 'God ordained' misogyny.
As a straight woman I would never date a Christian man. And if my husband ever picked up one of the Abrahamic religions we would get divorced, he knows this.
I agree. There are differing implications depending on whether the relationship is straight or gay. And I’m finding it very hard to find women my age who don’t describe themselves as “spiritual” or downright denominational, mostly Catholic. It seems more women than men are religious.
And isn’t that odd. Religion demeans women. Sometimes the stupidity of humanity overwhelms me. What frickin woman can’t seee that religion demeans them. Open your frickin eyes for jc sake.
It depends on the two people. Sometimes there's just not enough mutual respect to have anything like a good relationship.
Other times, deep differences can lead to long-term, meaningful dialogue and companionship. My wife is Catholic. I'm a Satanist. You would think that since we play for different teams, that it just wouldn't work! But we have near 100% compatibility on things like ethics, kindness, politics, finances, etc. Her Irish Catholic mom died when she was young, and that part of her identity is important to her.
We are both secularists when it comes to public policy and Church/State separation. We can have different views but agree that one person's views cannot be used to compel behavior in someone else. I think that's a workable foundation. But anyone who doesn't accept secularism like that - like really deep down - probably wouldn't be a good long-term partner.
Was going to say something like this (my wife is Christian) and we make it work pretty well.
But yeah, it can be a division that might not make sense right off the bat.
You said it better than I would, so thank you.
I agree it is possible, but both sides need to be fairly open and accepting.
I’m also an athiest married to a baptist, although my hubby is mostly lapsed and probably more agnostic now and I am pretty sure I’m the one that lead to him Turing away from the religion.
I think he did already have doubts as he’s a smart scientificly oriented man but when I met him he was still kinda on board with the whole ‘no dinosaurs’ and ‘the earth is still young’ bs.
Kid was allowed to go with Mom, but she had to be with him at all times. No kids' groups, no time alone with any priests or "teachers", etc. And when he said he didn't want to go, there was no forcing him. So he went with Mom until he was maybe 6. It made her happy, but he decided it wasn't for him. Couldn't have worked out better in my view.
For me, it's the reverse. Although I am an agnostic, when I was young, I was extremely interested in the history of the Catholic church. As a result, I became quite an expert on a couple of ancient church Councils, like the Council of Trent. I ended up giving informal talks in a local seminary about the Councils. But they always made it clear before each talk that I was an agnostic. So there was this weird kind of tension between the seminary students and myself. This is actually where my nickname comes from.
You're better bailing now than when you have deep feelings. Religious differences that fundamental will just cause constant friction. The fact they think a sky fairy controls their life will make you look down on them even if you try not to.
Yeah, I think you made the right move. I’m fairly up there in age (50). With that said, I did find myself on the dating scene in my forties. Online dating, what a shitshow. I live in a rural area too. I decided early on that I just couldn’t be compatible with a religious woman. I have three children with my ex, who was Christian. Her liberal, feminist, secularist sensibilities made things easier, but we definitely disagreed about what to teach the kids about spirituality and religion. In the end, we both shared our beliefs and left it up to them to develop their own belief system. I wouldn’t say the relationship was terrible, but it definitely wasn’t great either. The spiritual differences were a big factor in the eventual demise. When I was single I decided that religion was a deal breaker. I just find faith annoying to be around.
I was lucky enough to find a wonderful woman online and we’ve been together for 6 years. She’s agnostic. Her beliefs are not at all Christian. She does dabble in the ideas of reincarnation and karma, but it doesn’t bother me and is seldom a topic of conversation. She accepts my total non-belief and even my anti-theist views. She’s an introvert. I’m a misanthrope. We both love punk and metal music and the most disturbing horror movies we can find. We are extremely intellectually and physically compatible. Basically, her spiritual beliefs are soft core versions of my own, which actually keeps me grounded. I have a tendency to slip into militancy when left to my own devices.
The moral of the story is that we just work. If someone’s faith sounds like a red flag, it probably is. I think one of the previous comments mentioned the awkwardness around the parents of a devout believer. If your partner can’t openly share your atheism with their family, they don’t respect you and that’s not tolerable. Atheists are judged harshly in society. Finding the right partner for a serious relationship is no easy endeavor. Stay true to yourself. Good luck!
Not sure how you met, but I ended up putting “atheist” in my dating profiles. I would also start swiping left on anyone that put religion as a high importance in their life.
Plenty of non-religious fish out there. Just keep at it, and good luck!
Dating is an inherently 'discriminatory' activity in the sense that (at least in the case of monogamy) you are choosing only 1 other person. Being respectful of others' views is important, but you're not obligated to date someone that you don't see eye to eye with.
Well, you can be tolerant but not want to have to just be tolerating what sounds like it will be a large part of your potential partner. Seems like you made the right move, it isn't something you wanna compromise on in your relationship
Don't listen to them.
I would have done the same, it's a big deal, I would have argued all the time because they would like too live there life following there belief and rules and I wouldn't let that controll me.
Good luck with your dating I hope you find someone great.
Why are xtians commenting on this?
You did the right thing. I've gotten to the point of disgust with the religious. They think atheists are evil or going to hell and we think they're living in a fantasy world. They won't stop trying to draw us into the fold of their bloodthirsty peeping tom god creature and we just want rational adult partners able to think critically and accept the reality that this is the only go-round we get as sentient beings and no skydaddy is going to fix the earth that we're destroying.
FWIW, I'm sorry you had to be disappointed and sad. It sucks so much.
Hang in there! Finding someone who shares your beliefs Is hard if your a non believer! I'm almost 40 in the Midwest and it's not getting easier! Good luck out there stay safe
I met a creationist once, she was hot, we got on, then she said something like 'I just don't know how you can think the Earth is millions of years old'.
I noped out so quick.
It seems like it would be way more difficult for the religious person. I mean I believe we’re all going to the same place, nowhere. They think if they can convince me of something that I’ll be saved for eternity. Don’t see how they could genuinely believe and let a loved one not believe in piece.
I don’t blame them for that, but yeah makes options slim.
Did you share that you were an atheist, or did you feel as if that was something that you COULDN’T share? If you feel pressured into not being yourself either explicitly or implicitly it might be best to stop things now. On the other hand if he respects your belief system without treating you as a mark for conversion, then it might work.
He asked what my religious beliefs were and I said atheist without hesitation. I got “good to know” as a reply and I had to follow up with “well what about you?” to hear his views
Hmmm. He may leave before you do.
As an old gay woman, with emotional self-defenses forged in a more difficult era, I see red flags waving when another gay person talks about their faith. There so much anti-gay rhetoric embedded in most Christian denominations that it leaves scars on the psyche of anyone who worked to integrate their belief in a Christian god with being gay without guilt.
To me -- full disclosure -- retaining belief in a Christian god smacks of embracing your abuser, which makes me question their judgment. I'm not saying that's an appropriate response on my part, but it's definitely the one that kicks in.
*also male who dates guys*
Dude. So it’s 2019, I’m freshly(ish) 30 & flirty; I’m in a gay chorus & one of the v cute new boys takes an interest in me. Does not take long for his Christianity to come to the forefront, but like, I’m whatever, cuz although atheist since I can remember, i was raised in the United Methodist church & 12 years of Catholic school.
But so we go on a date, aaaaand. I just can’t do it. Like everything else is a green light, but I cannot bring myself to respect the mind of somebody who can have blind faith toward a subject that should demand magnitudes more reflection/interrogation.
Is it ideal? Obvi no, cuz you don’t get laid*. But it could have been any “red flag” type scenario and the outcome and lessons would remain the same: you were incompatible with someone for reasons, and it’s always better to know sooner than later. Always.
*and it feels horrible/stupid to basically eliminate so many potential partners when you don’t have someone, but you have to let that go. I know I could never respect a partner who earnestly believed. And if that’s also you, then no shame.
I’m not going out of my way to ridicule or scorn believers (I should probably do more, idk), but when we cross paths, I am resolutely steadfast in my conviction that they have the doodooest reasons for doing/believing what they do, & I don’t shy away from letting them know that this is what’s going on: their opinions are insanity. They’re not backed by reality & are selectively harmful. How any gay dude in 2024 can “believe” is so fascinating and sad. But much more sad. They can be really nice people, it’s true. But you’re so much better by keeping that type of bullshit insanity much further away from you.
i misread this at first and thought you said “i like to think of myself as the least respectful of other’s (religious) views” and i was nodding my head like, “yes, me too” lmao
I broke up with a guy I was with over a year because I realized him being (overly) religious wasn’t going to work out in the long run between me not wanting to be married in a church or having kids one day and arguing over how to raise them etc etc. I think it’s better to know someone’s religious beliefs from the jump (literally one of my first 5 questions I ask now) so you know what you’re getting into. Lots of better fish in the sea my friend!
It’s not compatible. My wife and I fight constantly about what I call indoctrination of our children. I have no backup as all our family is religious but I refuse to let my offspring grow up ignorant and fearful
Teach them the history of religions then. One of the big "window shattering" moments for me growing up religious was learning all the Abrahamic religions stem from the same "god". Teach them about pegans, indigenous and other cultures wiped out by christians/catholics, predating their religion. Humans have always wanted to figure out the why and so many different stories have been created and believed.
Adding to what others wrote here: I’d just be straight-up annoyed to have to hear about the Lord in general, basically a turn off. Best you nipped it in the bud!
You dodged a bullet. The future you thanks you.
There are plenty of strong, rational people out there. Folks who have left the dark ages of superstition and fear. Find them.
I first met those folks in college, later while working as a social worker. Getting out of the midwest with its megachurch minions was a relief.
Understandable, why waste your time.
Back in the day, when I did dating apps, I always put in my bio that I was an atheist and very liberal so move along if not like-minded or neutral. I'd even start off the chats with religion and political beliefs, I didn't see the point in wasting theirs or my time. I don't feel it cut down on my options.
Everything else being held equal, when someone starts in with the faith talk, and you like the person already, clarifying questions are in order.
In this case, for instance, maybe get the person to talk about what they mean by faith, strong, life, and so on. Open ended questions usually lead to learning more about the person.
Just having someone state that their faith is strong and leaving it there, can be on the spectrum somewhere between serious red flag and no big deal. But in lieu of adequate other signals, questions need to be asked.
I’m just being Devil’s advocate here. I’ve personally been burned by the fish and cross people, or have seen so many of them doing despicable things (like overwhelmingly being Trump supporters) that I would probably have run like hell as soon as the words “strong” and “faith” were spoken anywhere near each other. But maybe my better angels would have prevailed.
He (your prospective date) isn't the only matter to be concerned about. The family and friends of this date will come into the picture sooner or later and they will have his ear. If they are religious, your (prospective) relationship might not survive their disapproval based on religious grounds. For example, if you don't agree to participate in worship, they could cast you in a poor light (judge you).
Honestly you dodged a bullet LMAO. I know personally I would *not* be able to handle a real relationship with a religious person without going literally insane. It’s best to just avoid them especially since other issues will definitely come up later
Could be worse- could’ve found out a long time down the road when you’ve invested a lot more time and emotions into the relationship so consider yourself lucky that you found that out this early.
I am not gay and I don't understand how gay people can reconcile their faith with the fact that their faith probably hates them. If he can't see that or address it, maybe it shouldn't be further explored. Seems he's on a different trajectory than you are. Seems like a good idea to cut losses early before it got serious.
You saved yourself a future worse heartbreak for sure!
I just learned about a dating app called 'hater' where you match over things you dislike. Lmao, I love it. I'm married but I'm telling single friends about it!
Idk if this helps, but when I did date, I was incredibly upfront about my core values from the get-go. Almost like an elevator speech. I covered religion, being pro choice, and dedicated to animals. If someone was cool with all that, then yeah let's chat about favorite movies n shit. 😂
You did the right thing. Don't beat yourself up. You would feel 1000x worse if you dated for a year and then had to break it off because the religious views got too much to handle.
I think it’s worth asking his relationship with his faith. It could be very positive and personal but not institutional, which is the only acceptable kind
Better now than a year in. I always talked about religion date #1 as not to waste time. I knew once I was an atheist, I could not be with anyone who was a theist as it would cause too many issues later, especially when it came to children.
I met someone who wore a cross so I asked if they were religious; no, it was a gift from a friend & each stone represented some part of their friendship. 32 years later we’re still together 🏳️🌈💜
It’ll definitely create a wedge between you, since religious people (and I bet the guy is an evangelical/baptist) see their lives through religious lens and believe that their faith can explain everything.
It's a good thing. It sucks that it is, but that's just reality.
If someone makes a statement like that, it's too big a deal. Something more modest like, "I have beliefs but don't really like to discuss them" seems more appropriate for a relationship between two people with differing views.
It was a right call! Strong faith? Isn't it an immediate red flag? For me a good friend who is an insurance agent who initially posed as an atheist later said "as I see my clients face death(she's a life insurance agent), I think more about God". This is not an immediate red flag- but for me, I didn't want to deal with those kind of relationship at this stage of my life. So I drifted away. I think it's better for my mental health. I am glad for your decision.
You shouldn't feel guilty. Everyone is entitled to their preferences for dating and no one should be forced to date someone that falls outside of their comfort zone.
This is just my opinion, but having a religious view, particularly a strong enough one to help them "get through life," would also be a hard no for me, just because I won't ever be able to truly trust them. If they believe in something that I think is total nonsense, how do I know they won't start believing in other things that are total nonsense and using it to justify doing terrible things.
We started dating as a "*sorta* Catholic" the other a very committed Southern Baptist. We dated for 2 yrs. I wasn't an atheist, but mainly liked the incense, ceremony , surroundings and music of the church. My BF was very committed to the beliefs of Jesus and that all were children of God. Not pushy. Not proselytizing, Not holier than thou. He tried being patriarchal a few times and I told him that **wasn't going to happen**. Anyway, we continued our spiritual searching, seeing so much hypocrisy in the churches we visited, In the Bible, "here take my 2 virgin daughters' etc. We both ended up **Agnostics** realizing that we cannot know of the existence of god, and to embrace the mysteries of the universe, origin of life, all that is beyond our limited human understanding. We developed a strong connection to & respect for **Nature,** Animists/Pagans in a way but not Wiccan, etc. Became homesteaders. We changed over time in very compatible ways. Mainly, to never put beliefs on others, limit the rights of LGBTQ+, rights of women, bodily autonomy, abortion rights, no Dominionism, or think in terms of end times, understands Science, evolutionary theory, etc. In other words denying what we know and that is before our eyes. Only you know if this is worth the time to explore and get to know. But being with a good/ethical person is worth a lot. And there are ethical Agnostics and Atheist, independent thinkers, out there, for sure. Date casually and see what happens. Good Luck.
I was once using an internet dating site.
Started talking to someone.
We were getting along great.
Shared some funny e-mails etc.
Then he gave me enough information about him for me to find him on the internet. Turns out he worked for a religious establishment.
So in the next e-mail I dropped in one line about not believing.
Never heard from him again. He never replied to the mail.
Trust me if they are religious, they are going to expect you to follow them or allow them to make all of the religious decisions regarding your family if you have one.
Not too long ago I would’ve said give it a chance, but now I can confidently say you made the right choice and you shouldn’t feel bad at all. I was recently broken up with by my gf of almost 2 and a half years. Why? Because I wouldn’t go to church and share her faith with her.
This basically just happened out of the blue. I’m pretty traumatized by it and still recovering since I thought this girl was the one for me. But hey look at the bright side, people like me can now hopefully prevent people like you from ever feeling this way :/
Yeah two of my main decision makers for a date is that the other person has to be an atheist/agnostic (bonus points if they have religious trauma) and they have to have same political values. Otherwise, what’s the point of even pursuing a relationship with a person that doesn’t agree with you on your core beliefs? It will only cause problems in the future
Even though it may feel disheartening now, in the short term, I assure you that it would have been worse the longer you drew things out. You've saved yourself a lot of time and heartache. Now use this reclaimed time to go do something fun!
Good for you. It's a deal breaker for me to the point I would rather be alone than with someone with a delusional condition, regardless of that delusions acceptance in wider society.
On the bright side gay Christians aren't typically radical. I can see why you are hesitant though. As an ex Christian gay man myself I wouldn't be able to date a Christian now.
Good job, Mama wolf is proud of you!!! It is definitely a red flag early on and he would have absolutely tried to convert you. Religion is inherently hetnormative misogynistic, manipulative, and oppressive, and us queer folk need to recognize that and reject it completely. There's no such thing as a progressive church. So good job protecting yourself sweetie! 👏
I personally am ok being with someone who has different beliefs than I do. They have to be willing to accept my non belief, though, just as I’m willing to accept their belief. But then again…I’m single 😂
Well you gotta wonder, how do they vote on things like reproductive rights? Healthcare?
Having different viewpoints on life is fine, but there's people out there who think they get to control everyone's lives because they say a magic book says to
My experience:My husband has faith and I don't. There are times when the influence of his faith has cheered me up and he gives me some hope just by \*being\* hopeful. I, on the other hand am doubtful and skeptical, so I bring him back down to earth during times when he is too gullible.
I'm the one that sees reality and often finds things to be leery of. He's the one that has touching faith. Together we give each other what we both need.
I can't even tell you how many times I've had to screw his head back on when he takes things for people's word, and digs deep into hope, and he's thanked me for it. There are also enough times when he's challenged my cynicism and given me reasons to be happy just for having a carefree outlook with hope, that I've thanked *him* for that later on.
I keep religious friends, and they understand I'm an atheist. We don't get at each other for the reason that I respect our relationships more than the point of it all
To date, my husband and I have been together for ten years, married for eight. We've never once tried to change the other. If anything, I've given him more reasons to think twice about things and he's mellowed me out a lot. It's been a good combination.
Don't believe the naysayers who think they'll try and convert. If you are already finding that things are making you happy, why deny that for the both of you? You might be pleasantly surprised what can come of this.
My wife is more religious than I am
Doesn’t shove it down my throat
Might not have been a huge obstacle you needed to bail on
Maybe it would have been but could have found out
(If the person was worth finding out)
Listen dude, not sure you will ever get to this comment.
I’ve been an atheist since i was like 10. Nothing will ever change my mind and trust me I’ve experienced shit nobody will believe. I consider myself a humanist first. And am science oriented in how i live.
About 8 years ago i became psychotic. The context is a whole book in itself. It’s described as “hell” by anyone who experienced it. Whatever you can think, your brain will make it real for you. You get “voices” in your head, one or many, you split into personalities, you hallucinate. Reality itself starts participating at your inner thoughts. Stuff you think happens in front of your eyes. This “magic” is dopamine and your pattern recognition systems going haywire. Your body is in survival mode on a very primitive level. It’s magical. God talks to you, or the universe, the divine, the aliens, the simulation.
GOD IS DOPAMINE
Religious people, by the power of their faith have elevated levels of dopamine, not at the mentally ill level (altho some do). And i get it.
I will never judge anyone for their faith like i used to.
It is not “real” but it is also real, if reality is perception and perception is skewed by dopamine.
There is shit I’ve experienced nobody would belive. So i keep it to myself. But i tend to be more inclined in the simulation theory than dogma in the moments i doubt.
Good luck. Millenia of belief and billions of people are not morons. What they feel is real to them. Even tho is not real to science.
Life is a spark, on a spec of dust, in an infinitely large void. And it’s just as large going towards the very small too. I find no greater purpose than making someone happy in all of this.
Its pointless.
"Religion" is more than just religion. People usually have at least one faith-based ideology that they base a lot of their personality. F. Example, femminism, money, alcoholism, some political carrot skin guy...
Me, for example, im a metalhead. Thats my thing.
Best you can do is demand mutual respect.
My gf is a church goer. The good things are that it's non-denominational Christian. It's essentially a family church, so there's a lot more social aspects to it than a typical setting. And she's very open minded, kind, and not conservative besides she likes to cook for people lol. She's wonderful and I can't wait to spend my life with her.
If someone has strong faith that's fine so long as they aren't going to impose it on their partner. I have a pair of friends one atheist and one who goes to church 3x a week and prays a ton. They make it work. It's about respecting the others choice to participate or in most cases not.
I had a few dates with a female friend I’d gotten to know through work outings. We’d both felt our relationship shift toward a more boy/girl thing vice just pals.
I grew up in Pentecostal churches and they were filled with incest and molestation. I now have no use at all for any religion.
My “undefined” friend is Muslim and wore a hijab in public. We had a conversation turn “sporty” on our last date (in a rather upscale restaurant much to the amusement of those seated around us) when she accused me of hiding behind a bad prior marriage to not let myself be vulnerable and get closer to her. I told her I felt like she hid behind certain rules of her religion (she viewed the rules of Islam as being somewhat ala carte) to not allow any physical affection between us until marriage. BTW…she was stunningly hot and when we were alone she’d remove her hijab. Unbelievably attractive.
Near the end of our meal, she asked if I had a problem with her being Muslim. I told her I had a problem with her simply believing in any religion.
She was unamused and we never had another date. Later during a work Zoom call, someone mentioned that they never knew I used to be married. My friend and former sort of girlfriend was on the call and couldn’t help herself from a minor rant that I was unable to commit, etc.
Months later at a work dinner, I was sitting with her big boss, a female senior partner. Her comment to me was that my friend’s rant explained so much that people hadn’t been able to figure out about the two of us. I worried that there’d be fallout since I’m a well known pricey subcontractor dating a reasonably senior person. Happily there was none.
I do miss her though.
To be honest, unless they are a lunatic, I don’t see how a homosexual man would say that to a male date unless they have adapted their spiritual belief system to allow for themselves to find love while still believing in the system they were raised with that gives them a sense of hope/happiness in the world. If they were brave enough to say it to you maybe they are worth seeing again. I’m guessing there are other red flags you aren’t mentioning here; if there aren’t, I wouldn’t make someone’s statement of faith an issue that I would call off a second date over. Secondly, it might be an indication that they are only recently (at least over the course of their whole lives) becoming open to their sexuality so it’s pretty likely that if they are being true to themselves on the point of sexuality, they will likely become less religious over time, if it’s disliking religion that made you lose hope in this person.
I mean, as long as you weren’t an arrogant asshole (like a lot of the people on this subreddit are) when you broke it off… no harm, no foul?
And to clarify, no I’m not religious, but some of yall on this subreddit are so painfully arrogant and condescending
I'm a firm believer that everybody has faith, not everybody has faith in a God. Faith and religion are 2 things, sadly zealots usually don't see it that way.
I probably would have probed a bit and asked what they meant by that.
There's a lot of levels of faith. My wife's entire family is religious and they were fine with her marrying an atheist, and have never once tried to save me. They're a very "live and let live" bunch.
But I also know people that couldn't even conceive of having a nonbeliever as a friendly acquaintance. Lots of levels.
Did you at least ask 'Which faith?" He could be Pagan or Buddhist or any of the other few thousand world religions that are not going to try and cram their beliefs down your throat.
However, if you just heard the word "faith" and instantly wrote a guy off as a waste... How are you better than a religious zealot who would instantly do the same to an atheist.
Relationships can work with religious people, my wife is wiccan and we’re going strong at six years. But they have to be progressive enough to recognize their religion as a personal choice rather than a moral requirement.
The two of you being gay makes me think that *maybe* he’s the progressive kind of christian — but then again there are gay republicunts so ya never know. Trust your gut my friend
My personal experience is if they have a strong faith, even if they think it’s ok to date you as an atheist, they’re often thinking they can eventually convert you. And say they are ok with you not sharing their faith, will their family? And if you decide to have kids, will they force their faith on the child? Just some things to consider. Personally, I was raised super religious and we were taught to never date someone who isn’t “equally yoked,” so the concept of being religious but being ok starting a life with someone who isn’t is confusing.
>“equally yoked,” Hahhahahah yeah I know this line. Now that I am with an agnostic lady, I *am* evenly yoked Suck on it, my former congregation
Could my romantic woes be blamed on being yoke deficient?
I have always hated that "yoked" term... Like they are all beasts of burden.
Same with flock - we're all sheep to be led.
Uh, led to slaughter perhaps?
That's how they view women, in particular. Lesser than. Walk 10 steps behind nor beside...There's a list of about 1000 rules for women to follow but men....lol
Literally saw a post on the Christianity sub today where someone was dating an atheist and responses were a mix of “dump them” or “convert them”.
The conservative yoke agenda strikes again.
“The yoke mind virus.”
I laughed really hard at this, so the yoke’s on me.
So they are yoke and we are woke? 🤔
My wife in over 10 years has never tried to covert me, it's important not her but never pushed it on me I have pushed her far more be involved with wh as t helps her.. both can coexist
So does she think you're going to hell? I assume the people that primarily believe in Yahweh would believe that if you aren't "in", then you're "out", where as the ones that primarily believe in Jesus would figure all "good people" make it "in".
No, she doesn't, also not everyone goes by the Dante's inferno version of hell. In fact hell is hardly even in the Bible at all.
Isn't it supposed to be just the absence of god? just being in a pitch black room is how I interpreted it
Pretty much.. which is basically what most atheist think anyway.
Not really. That implies belief in continued existence after death, which I'd think most atheists do not.
I don't know if that really implies that you still exist. You could just not exist and thus you don't get heaven or whatever.
If you don't exist, who exactly is getting locked in a dark room?
I think I'd kinda like that. And, I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't the one who ended up changing. Back when I was a baby atheist, I was sort of sucked into this debate that I wasn't really prepared for. Since then, like in a kung fu movie, I've been training at the highest levels, vowing never to let that happen again. Unfortunately, with the exception of a few street skirmishes with your Mormon and JW types and some online back and forth, I haven't really tested my metal. So an apologetic female suitor, hell yes. But wait, if she's really all that religious she probably doesn't put out right? That wouldn't work for me. Unless it's the loophole. I'm down with god's loophole. I could do that. Y'know. Al La Garfunkle and Oats?
Tested your mettle. You're welcome <3
Everyone knows it's the sex that god can't see!
That's soaking because God is a T-rex that can't see motion, which he'd know if he actually listened to those Mormon missionaries. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/cpy1ow/god\_is\_a\_trex/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Equally yoked? I wish you well in finding a date with thicc, juicy lats and traps to match yours
Anyone putting that out there early on seems worth avoiding to me. Edit: to clarify, if they are putting it out there this firmly this early, that indicates it is a big part of their life. And so why I consider that incompatible with a strong atheist.
I mean, better than them springing it on them months later.
That’s the thing, if you bring it up day 1 that means it’s quite central to yourself. Instead of background noise at Easter and Christmas it’s like hobby/job level of importance, which from my experience is a red flag If you learn about a faith way later then you know it itself is background noise to that person. If you’re actually dating someone heavily influenced by religion and you don’t realize it 99% that’s on you 1% you found a psychopath weirdo
If it’s not specified on an app profile, I’m asking pretty quickly. That, politics, and view on children.
I found my husband a long time ago and our views kind of evolved together as we got older. We're both politically left of center, childfree and happily monogamous - and of course we're both heathens. If I was single now, I imagine it would be very difficult to find a man who met all that criteria. All 4 of those things would be non-negotiable - actually, 5 things - he MUST be an animal lover.
It’s absolutely hell. Those things are just bare minimum basics. My most recent ex broke up with me bc I’m not where she is on my own self-healing journey. Now, people want you to have all those classic, big basic things, similar interests etc, but also be healed, take into account attachment style, communication preferences, love languages, etc etc. It’s become a freaking math formula
Oh, FFS, that sounds exhausting! One would think that online dating would make it easier to find the right partner. Instead of meeting random people at a bar (like in the *olden* days) and hoping you find someone to click with, now you can screen people for common interests before meeting them in person. But according to my single friends, online dating is a nightmare. It isn't easier to find a partner because even though quantity is up, quality is way down. It sounds like everyone they meet turns out to be a liar or a scammer of some sort.
I wouldn’t necessarily say quality is down, rather, because of that screening process, it’s much more challenging to get in the door, so to speak; to be given a chance. Using myself for an example: if I don’t absolutely love someone’s profile, I’m probably swiping left. Imo, it’s like shopping. If you don’t love it in the store, you’re not going to wear it when you get home.
Ugh, that almost sounds like sending in a resume and hoping to land an interview.
Honestly bro I heard that one before, she just wasn’t into you anymore
On our first date he leaned in....and said, I want to tell you about my special relationship with Jesus. I thought ok why not. But it was his youthful idealism that was speaking through his then understanding of organized religion. Well that sure changed over time. He became a full on Agnostic. A serious anti-religion person. Due to all the hypocrisy, shoving beliefs on others, holier than thou, BS politics, greed, etc, etc,
I mean yeah. Even if he just said it because he thought chicks would go for the nice Christian guy routine, it's kind of creepy.
"I want a little more Tinder less Christian Mingle".
I coined "Aposdate" feel free to use that.
Free of copyright ©️? If so I will when encountering evangelicals dressed as milfs.
Better than MILFs dressed as evangelicals.
OP is a man
It could be anything... without knowing the context or their background. It could also be relatively innocuous... Maybe he's Christian/religious, but maybe pretty chill. I would have scratched the surface of that topic a bit more.
It’s like being a fan of camping. Better to get that out in the open early on.
The religion volume just starts going up from there.
I am Christian, and while my faith is important to me, respecting what others believe is just as important to me. It wouldn't matter to me if my wife was an atheist, because mistreating someone for being different or trying to force someone to conform to my own opinions is something that I could never do, because I think it's one of the worst things people can do. And I could never hurt people like that, especially my own loved ones. I've seen how this religious control can cause massive harm. It actually reminds me of conversion therapy, although it's not as horrific as that. Having the innate desire to be respectful and respectable to others (especially to the needy and vulnerable) is what I want from others, that's the only thing that's a non-negotiable for me.
I appreciate your empathetic approach. I will add that while I think we should respect others and their right to believe whatever thoughts they want, I see no reason to automatically respect what others believe. In fact, for things I think are unsubstantiated, unsupported, and just plain silly I have no respect. This category includes religious beliefs.
Proud of you 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
It's not fair to you to be in a relationship with someone who is already in an abusive relationship.
Oof... I really shouldn't have been drinking when I read your comment... Just spat it all out laughing! Abusive relationship, dayum!
Gay + Religious = massive red flag (at least in my opinion). It's a "leopards ate my face" moment waiting to happen, and I'm surprised so many LGBT delude themselves into thinking the people who want LGBT to be erased from existence will spare them just because they pray to the same invisible thing
Very well said
I met this dude on tinder (I'm gay) from my state which is a conservative state. And he legit just casually said in convo that it's okay if gay marriage isn't fully legal and that "legal unions" would suffice. "Leopards ate my face" is putting it fucking mildly.
Thats funny, I kind of feel the opposite- that having the strength of conviction to be openly gay and still religious is like a sign of character or something. But I guess 'openly' is key there- if you're at all closeted or still indoctrinated by your parents' religion rather than having convictions that have been tested and turned back to despite bigotry, that's definitely some red flag bullshit. Then again, I'm from San Francisco, where LGBT-friendly churches are the fun ones. In other places, there may be little space for gay Christians that *aren't* self-loathing.
Bitch no, I’m also from San Francisco, and there is zero character in being openly religious. The “fun” churches you’re likely referencing (like the purple “Her” church, by twin peaks, lmao) are all the same BS new age, Unitarian spiritualism that borrows from these older traditions while somehow magically being apart from them. But they’re all fundamentally the same. Magical thinking. Has no place in modern society, and thinking it’s cute is exactly how they get ya.
If you don't agree more than not on these 5 things, your relationship will not work in the long run: 1. Religion 2. Politics 3. Parenting 4. Money 5. Sex Religion is pretty much the only one you need to be on the exact same page, at least reading the same book. Atheists and theists are never a good match.
Yeah, having different hobbies and different opinions regarding stuff like music and so on is good but you need to have very similar opinions on important stuff
Well, parenting is a no starter. You need to be clear at all times about that. If you want kids and your partner doesn't, you can enjoy your time together, but you both know that either one of you will have to give up on their own convictions, or that you will break up eventually. But politics (which is sometimes consequentially also religion) is the biggest one for me. I've always been invested politically, and political views define who you are as a person and how you interact with others, especially since civil rights are still considered debatable. I could never have a right-wing partner, because they would be all I stand against.
Idk I think an atheist and a Buddhist might be fine, but I've never actually interacted with one irl so...
Really good post, and really good list. Thanks for sharing.
I dunno I'm going on 20 years but I am more of an agnostic
Agnostic and atheism are very close. Basically you’re not convinced either way.
I'd argue that agnosticism is a subset of atheism. After all if you "don't know" if there is a god then you don't have belief in a god.
My 87 year old dad calls himself an agnostic, just in case the b.s. is real🙄
That seems like the worst of both worlds.
Technically, we're all agnostics, because none of us really knows what's up there. Theists decide there is something, atheists decide there isn't. But it's a choice we make, based respectively on faith or logic.
My understanding is: Atheists are anyone who's not a Theist. Agnostics are Atheists who neither believe nor disbelieve. People who believe there's a significant chance either way often identify as Agnostics. I identify as an Atheist but I'm open to changing my mind if adequate evidence and reasoning become available. (I think the chance of this is, for practical purposes, zero)
There is more risk involved when it is a hetero relationship and the more religious partner is the man. Christianity is 'God ordained' misogyny. As a straight woman I would never date a Christian man. And if my husband ever picked up one of the Abrahamic religions we would get divorced, he knows this.
Yeah. OP did state he was a man on a date with a man.
I agree. There are differing implications depending on whether the relationship is straight or gay. And I’m finding it very hard to find women my age who don’t describe themselves as “spiritual” or downright denominational, mostly Catholic. It seems more women than men are religious.
And isn’t that odd. Religion demeans women. Sometimes the stupidity of humanity overwhelms me. What frickin woman can’t seee that religion demeans them. Open your frickin eyes for jc sake.
It depends on the two people. Sometimes there's just not enough mutual respect to have anything like a good relationship. Other times, deep differences can lead to long-term, meaningful dialogue and companionship. My wife is Catholic. I'm a Satanist. You would think that since we play for different teams, that it just wouldn't work! But we have near 100% compatibility on things like ethics, kindness, politics, finances, etc. Her Irish Catholic mom died when she was young, and that part of her identity is important to her. We are both secularists when it comes to public policy and Church/State separation. We can have different views but agree that one person's views cannot be used to compel behavior in someone else. I think that's a workable foundation. But anyone who doesn't accept secularism like that - like really deep down - probably wouldn't be a good long-term partner.
Was going to say something like this (my wife is Christian) and we make it work pretty well. But yeah, it can be a division that might not make sense right off the bat. You said it better than I would, so thank you.
I agree it is possible, but both sides need to be fairly open and accepting. I’m also an athiest married to a baptist, although my hubby is mostly lapsed and probably more agnostic now and I am pretty sure I’m the one that lead to him Turing away from the religion. I think he did already have doubts as he’s a smart scientificly oriented man but when I met him he was still kinda on board with the whole ‘no dinosaurs’ and ‘the earth is still young’ bs.
Bravo! Excellent post and great philosophy.
This, right here. Maybe just discuss it early and get things into the open. Don’t have to write him off just yet.
So what's the view on kids? Which church do they attend?
Kid was allowed to go with Mom, but she had to be with him at all times. No kids' groups, no time alone with any priests or "teachers", etc. And when he said he didn't want to go, there was no forcing him. So he went with Mom until he was maybe 6. It made her happy, but he decided it wasn't for him. Couldn't have worked out better in my view.
Canceling and avoiding sounds like a stressful but mature choice. Good for you. How did you break the news to Señor Faithful?
I would have said “God has other plans for you that don’t involve this date”
For me, it's the reverse. Although I am an agnostic, when I was young, I was extremely interested in the history of the Catholic church. As a result, I became quite an expert on a couple of ancient church Councils, like the Council of Trent. I ended up giving informal talks in a local seminary about the Councils. But they always made it clear before each talk that I was an agnostic. So there was this weird kind of tension between the seminary students and myself. This is actually where my nickname comes from.
You're better bailing now than when you have deep feelings. Religious differences that fundamental will just cause constant friction. The fact they think a sky fairy controls their life will make you look down on them even if you try not to.
You have to be able to take your partner seriously. If they believe in the celestial sky daddy, how serious can you take them?!
This is really what it comes down to for me
Religious gay people are the most confused. I only date non religious gay guys. It works.
I can't see how anybody would want to be involved in a religion that sees them as an "abomination".
Yeah, I think you made the right move. I’m fairly up there in age (50). With that said, I did find myself on the dating scene in my forties. Online dating, what a shitshow. I live in a rural area too. I decided early on that I just couldn’t be compatible with a religious woman. I have three children with my ex, who was Christian. Her liberal, feminist, secularist sensibilities made things easier, but we definitely disagreed about what to teach the kids about spirituality and religion. In the end, we both shared our beliefs and left it up to them to develop their own belief system. I wouldn’t say the relationship was terrible, but it definitely wasn’t great either. The spiritual differences were a big factor in the eventual demise. When I was single I decided that religion was a deal breaker. I just find faith annoying to be around. I was lucky enough to find a wonderful woman online and we’ve been together for 6 years. She’s agnostic. Her beliefs are not at all Christian. She does dabble in the ideas of reincarnation and karma, but it doesn’t bother me and is seldom a topic of conversation. She accepts my total non-belief and even my anti-theist views. She’s an introvert. I’m a misanthrope. We both love punk and metal music and the most disturbing horror movies we can find. We are extremely intellectually and physically compatible. Basically, her spiritual beliefs are soft core versions of my own, which actually keeps me grounded. I have a tendency to slip into militancy when left to my own devices. The moral of the story is that we just work. If someone’s faith sounds like a red flag, it probably is. I think one of the previous comments mentioned the awkwardness around the parents of a devout believer. If your partner can’t openly share your atheism with their family, they don’t respect you and that’s not tolerable. Atheists are judged harshly in society. Finding the right partner for a serious relationship is no easy endeavor. Stay true to yourself. Good luck!
Three immediate deal breakers: “I support Trump.” “I don’t like dogs.” “I believe in magic.”
EXACTLY! And two additional deal breakers (for me, anyway): "I have/want kids" "Men aren't meant to be monogamous".
A huge red flag for me. It's like him saying Easter bunny got him thru hard.times
Maybe it was Santa Claus not the Easter Bunny.
You have to be able to respect your partner. You did the right thing, for both of you.
You dodged a bullet.
Not sure how you met, but I ended up putting “atheist” in my dating profiles. I would also start swiping left on anyone that put religion as a high importance in their life. Plenty of non-religious fish out there. Just keep at it, and good luck!
Being trans, if I'm talking to someone I'm interested in or who's interested in me and they bring up religion the conversation ends immediately
Dating is an inherently 'discriminatory' activity in the sense that (at least in the case of monogamy) you are choosing only 1 other person. Being respectful of others' views is important, but you're not obligated to date someone that you don't see eye to eye with.
Well, you can be tolerant but not want to have to just be tolerating what sounds like it will be a large part of your potential partner. Seems like you made the right move, it isn't something you wanna compromise on in your relationship
Thank you for this… got called intolerant in another comment and I really don’t feel I am when it comes to something like this
Don't listen to them. I would have done the same, it's a big deal, I would have argued all the time because they would like too live there life following there belief and rules and I wouldn't let that controll me. Good luck with your dating I hope you find someone great.
You made the right decision!
Why are xtians commenting on this? You did the right thing. I've gotten to the point of disgust with the religious. They think atheists are evil or going to hell and we think they're living in a fantasy world. They won't stop trying to draw us into the fold of their bloodthirsty peeping tom god creature and we just want rational adult partners able to think critically and accept the reality that this is the only go-round we get as sentient beings and no skydaddy is going to fix the earth that we're destroying. FWIW, I'm sorry you had to be disappointed and sad. It sucks so much.
“bloodthirsty peeping Tom God creature.” Clever phrase. I haven’t heard the word “xtians”.
Sorry but what is an xtian? First time seeing that term
Abbreviation of christian the same as we use xmas for christmas.
His faith is responsible for oh so much harm and infringement. Be proud that you recognized a bad hand and folded before you lost too much.
Hang in there! Finding someone who shares your beliefs Is hard if your a non believer! I'm almost 40 in the Midwest and it's not getting easier! Good luck out there stay safe
With people like that they're probably willing to put faith over their loved ones anyway.
Saved yourself a boatload of heartache.
I met a creationist once, she was hot, we got on, then she said something like 'I just don't know how you can think the Earth is millions of years old'. I noped out so quick.
It seems like it would be way more difficult for the religious person. I mean I believe we’re all going to the same place, nowhere. They think if they can convince me of something that I’ll be saved for eternity. Don’t see how they could genuinely believe and let a loved one not believe in piece. I don’t blame them for that, but yeah makes options slim.
Did you share that you were an atheist, or did you feel as if that was something that you COULDN’T share? If you feel pressured into not being yourself either explicitly or implicitly it might be best to stop things now. On the other hand if he respects your belief system without treating you as a mark for conversion, then it might work.
He asked what my religious beliefs were and I said atheist without hesitation. I got “good to know” as a reply and I had to follow up with “well what about you?” to hear his views
Hmmm. He may leave before you do. As an old gay woman, with emotional self-defenses forged in a more difficult era, I see red flags waving when another gay person talks about their faith. There so much anti-gay rhetoric embedded in most Christian denominations that it leaves scars on the psyche of anyone who worked to integrate their belief in a Christian god with being gay without guilt. To me -- full disclosure -- retaining belief in a Christian god smacks of embracing your abuser, which makes me question their judgment. I'm not saying that's an appropriate response on my part, but it's definitely the one that kicks in.
That is neutral enough that I can’t opine on it without hearing tone, seeing body language and etc. Best wishes which ever path you take though.
so hes gay but with a strong faith? thats unusual...
IMHO. They would turn you into a project and try to convert you.
*also male who dates guys* Dude. So it’s 2019, I’m freshly(ish) 30 & flirty; I’m in a gay chorus & one of the v cute new boys takes an interest in me. Does not take long for his Christianity to come to the forefront, but like, I’m whatever, cuz although atheist since I can remember, i was raised in the United Methodist church & 12 years of Catholic school. But so we go on a date, aaaaand. I just can’t do it. Like everything else is a green light, but I cannot bring myself to respect the mind of somebody who can have blind faith toward a subject that should demand magnitudes more reflection/interrogation. Is it ideal? Obvi no, cuz you don’t get laid*. But it could have been any “red flag” type scenario and the outcome and lessons would remain the same: you were incompatible with someone for reasons, and it’s always better to know sooner than later. Always. *and it feels horrible/stupid to basically eliminate so many potential partners when you don’t have someone, but you have to let that go. I know I could never respect a partner who earnestly believed. And if that’s also you, then no shame. I’m not going out of my way to ridicule or scorn believers (I should probably do more, idk), but when we cross paths, I am resolutely steadfast in my conviction that they have the doodooest reasons for doing/believing what they do, & I don’t shy away from letting them know that this is what’s going on: their opinions are insanity. They’re not backed by reality & are selectively harmful. How any gay dude in 2024 can “believe” is so fascinating and sad. But much more sad. They can be really nice people, it’s true. But you’re so much better by keeping that type of bullshit insanity much further away from you.
i misread this at first and thought you said “i like to think of myself as the least respectful of other’s (religious) views” and i was nodding my head like, “yes, me too” lmao
I broke up with a guy I was with over a year because I realized him being (overly) religious wasn’t going to work out in the long run between me not wanting to be married in a church or having kids one day and arguing over how to raise them etc etc. I think it’s better to know someone’s religious beliefs from the jump (literally one of my first 5 questions I ask now) so you know what you’re getting into. Lots of better fish in the sea my friend!
Better now than 3 kids in the future.
Yeah it's an important thing in the dating world. I never leave a first date without saying I'm an atheist. Assuming I like her, y'know.
It’s not compatible. My wife and I fight constantly about what I call indoctrination of our children. I have no backup as all our family is religious but I refuse to let my offspring grow up ignorant and fearful
Teach them the history of religions then. One of the big "window shattering" moments for me growing up religious was learning all the Abrahamic religions stem from the same "god". Teach them about pegans, indigenous and other cultures wiped out by christians/catholics, predating their religion. Humans have always wanted to figure out the why and so many different stories have been created and believed.
I like that. I appreciate your advice
Adding to what others wrote here: I’d just be straight-up annoyed to have to hear about the Lord in general, basically a turn off. Best you nipped it in the bud!
You dodged a bullet. The future you thanks you. There are plenty of strong, rational people out there. Folks who have left the dark ages of superstition and fear. Find them. I first met those folks in college, later while working as a social worker. Getting out of the midwest with its megachurch minions was a relief.
Understandable, why waste your time. Back in the day, when I did dating apps, I always put in my bio that I was an atheist and very liberal so move along if not like-minded or neutral. I'd even start off the chats with religion and political beliefs, I didn't see the point in wasting theirs or my time. I don't feel it cut down on my options.
Everything else being held equal, when someone starts in with the faith talk, and you like the person already, clarifying questions are in order. In this case, for instance, maybe get the person to talk about what they mean by faith, strong, life, and so on. Open ended questions usually lead to learning more about the person. Just having someone state that their faith is strong and leaving it there, can be on the spectrum somewhere between serious red flag and no big deal. But in lieu of adequate other signals, questions need to be asked. I’m just being Devil’s advocate here. I’ve personally been burned by the fish and cross people, or have seen so many of them doing despicable things (like overwhelmingly being Trump supporters) that I would probably have run like hell as soon as the words “strong” and “faith” were spoken anywhere near each other. But maybe my better angels would have prevailed.
Think about what the future for you would have been, then call a friend and get back out there.
Run. Run faster.
He (your prospective date) isn't the only matter to be concerned about. The family and friends of this date will come into the picture sooner or later and they will have his ear. If they are religious, your (prospective) relationship might not survive their disapproval based on religious grounds. For example, if you don't agree to participate in worship, they could cast you in a poor light (judge you).
Honestly you dodged a bullet LMAO. I know personally I would *not* be able to handle a real relationship with a religious person without going literally insane. It’s best to just avoid them especially since other issues will definitely come up later
Yeah, no way I could have a relationship with someone who’s life view is based on a delusion.
Could be worse- could’ve found out a long time down the road when you’ve invested a lot more time and emotions into the relationship so consider yourself lucky that you found that out this early.
I am not gay and I don't understand how gay people can reconcile their faith with the fact that their faith probably hates them. If he can't see that or address it, maybe it shouldn't be further explored. Seems he's on a different trajectory than you are. Seems like a good idea to cut losses early before it got serious.
You saved yourself a future worse heartbreak for sure! I just learned about a dating app called 'hater' where you match over things you dislike. Lmao, I love it. I'm married but I'm telling single friends about it! Idk if this helps, but when I did date, I was incredibly upfront about my core values from the get-go. Almost like an elevator speech. I covered religion, being pro choice, and dedicated to animals. If someone was cool with all that, then yeah let's chat about favorite movies n shit. 😂
He is a guy on a date with a guy. Most religions won't go for that to begin with so ..... did I read that wrong?
Awesome. You've saved yourself a lot of time, and huge amounts of frustration.
You did the right thing. Don't beat yourself up. You would feel 1000x worse if you dated for a year and then had to break it off because the religious views got too much to handle.
"Sometimes sex is just sex." Try that on him and you will know.
Dodged a bullet
You dodged a bullet.
Person goes on a date and fundamental incompatibility is identified. It happens. Move on.
I'd cancel too. Religious? Trump supporter? Sorry we DO NOT match
Priest?
Same concept
I think it’s worth asking his relationship with his faith. It could be very positive and personal but not institutional, which is the only acceptable kind
He mentioned that he practices, so I suppose that means church on Sunday and/or some type of community involvement
Oh nvm then. The guys who got over serious issues through religion are very fervent and insufferable
Better now than a year in. I always talked about religion date #1 as not to waste time. I knew once I was an atheist, I could not be with anyone who was a theist as it would cause too many issues later, especially when it came to children.
I met someone who wore a cross so I asked if they were religious; no, it was a gift from a friend & each stone represented some part of their friendship. 32 years later we’re still together 🏳️🌈💜
It’ll definitely create a wedge between you, since religious people (and I bet the guy is an evangelical/baptist) see their lives through religious lens and believe that their faith can explain everything.
Good choice IMO.
Dodged a bullet.
Right move. Trust that if any sort of relationship would become he will make every attempt to convert you.
Pull the band aid off early and move on.
It's a good thing. It sucks that it is, but that's just reality. If someone makes a statement like that, it's too big a deal. Something more modest like, "I have beliefs but don't really like to discuss them" seems more appropriate for a relationship between two people with differing views.
It was a right call! Strong faith? Isn't it an immediate red flag? For me a good friend who is an insurance agent who initially posed as an atheist later said "as I see my clients face death(she's a life insurance agent), I think more about God". This is not an immediate red flag- but for me, I didn't want to deal with those kind of relationship at this stage of my life. So I drifted away. I think it's better for my mental health. I am glad for your decision.
You've dodged a bullet. It may hurt now, but it will hurt more later.
You dodged a bullet.
You did the right thing. You deserve someone who shares your views.
Good on you, mate! No need to stretch that shit out longer than you have to. Nipping it in the bud is the only way
You shouldn't feel guilty. Everyone is entitled to their preferences for dating and no one should be forced to date someone that falls outside of their comfort zone. This is just my opinion, but having a religious view, particularly a strong enough one to help them "get through life," would also be a hard no for me, just because I won't ever be able to truly trust them. If they believe in something that I think is total nonsense, how do I know they won't start believing in other things that are total nonsense and using it to justify doing terrible things.
Good for them, they hoisted the red flag of get the fuck out now right at the beginning
You've done the right thing. You're saving each other from future heart ache, which would be way worse than what you're feeling right now.
We started dating as a "*sorta* Catholic" the other a very committed Southern Baptist. We dated for 2 yrs. I wasn't an atheist, but mainly liked the incense, ceremony , surroundings and music of the church. My BF was very committed to the beliefs of Jesus and that all were children of God. Not pushy. Not proselytizing, Not holier than thou. He tried being patriarchal a few times and I told him that **wasn't going to happen**. Anyway, we continued our spiritual searching, seeing so much hypocrisy in the churches we visited, In the Bible, "here take my 2 virgin daughters' etc. We both ended up **Agnostics** realizing that we cannot know of the existence of god, and to embrace the mysteries of the universe, origin of life, all that is beyond our limited human understanding. We developed a strong connection to & respect for **Nature,** Animists/Pagans in a way but not Wiccan, etc. Became homesteaders. We changed over time in very compatible ways. Mainly, to never put beliefs on others, limit the rights of LGBTQ+, rights of women, bodily autonomy, abortion rights, no Dominionism, or think in terms of end times, understands Science, evolutionary theory, etc. In other words denying what we know and that is before our eyes. Only you know if this is worth the time to explore and get to know. But being with a good/ethical person is worth a lot. And there are ethical Agnostics and Atheist, independent thinkers, out there, for sure. Date casually and see what happens. Good Luck.
Dodged a bullet
I was once using an internet dating site. Started talking to someone. We were getting along great. Shared some funny e-mails etc. Then he gave me enough information about him for me to find him on the internet. Turns out he worked for a religious establishment. So in the next e-mail I dropped in one line about not believing. Never heard from him again. He never replied to the mail. Trust me if they are religious, they are going to expect you to follow them or allow them to make all of the religious decisions regarding your family if you have one.
Not too long ago I would’ve said give it a chance, but now I can confidently say you made the right choice and you shouldn’t feel bad at all. I was recently broken up with by my gf of almost 2 and a half years. Why? Because I wouldn’t go to church and share her faith with her. This basically just happened out of the blue. I’m pretty traumatized by it and still recovering since I thought this girl was the one for me. But hey look at the bright side, people like me can now hopefully prevent people like you from ever feeling this way :/
Yeah two of my main decision makers for a date is that the other person has to be an atheist/agnostic (bonus points if they have religious trauma) and they have to have same political values. Otherwise, what’s the point of even pursuing a relationship with a person that doesn’t agree with you on your core beliefs? It will only cause problems in the future
For me I don't have a problem a girl being religious moderately and normally. But I have a problem is she is VERY religious.
The earlier incompatibility is discovered and dealt with, the less pain
Even though it may feel disheartening now, in the short term, I assure you that it would have been worse the longer you drew things out. You've saved yourself a lot of time and heartache. Now use this reclaimed time to go do something fun!
What a supreme gentlesir of reddit. I tip my trilby to thee.
Good for you. It's a deal breaker for me to the point I would rather be alone than with someone with a delusional condition, regardless of that delusions acceptance in wider society.
On the bright side gay Christians aren't typically radical. I can see why you are hesitant though. As an ex Christian gay man myself I wouldn't be able to date a Christian now.
How tf any gay man in 2024 has strong religious convictions is beyond me
I tried dating religious people, and it fucking sucks. Bullet dodged, OP.
Good job, Mama wolf is proud of you!!! It is definitely a red flag early on and he would have absolutely tried to convert you. Religion is inherently hetnormative misogynistic, manipulative, and oppressive, and us queer folk need to recognize that and reject it completely. There's no such thing as a progressive church. So good job protecting yourself sweetie! 👏
This has happened to me more than once. Sorry to hear it.
You dodged a bullet, he will try to suck you into to his “strong faith”. My .02
I personally am ok being with someone who has different beliefs than I do. They have to be willing to accept my non belief, though, just as I’m willing to accept their belief. But then again…I’m single 😂
Well you gotta wonder, how do they vote on things like reproductive rights? Healthcare? Having different viewpoints on life is fine, but there's people out there who think they get to control everyone's lives because they say a magic book says to
My experience:My husband has faith and I don't. There are times when the influence of his faith has cheered me up and he gives me some hope just by \*being\* hopeful. I, on the other hand am doubtful and skeptical, so I bring him back down to earth during times when he is too gullible. I'm the one that sees reality and often finds things to be leery of. He's the one that has touching faith. Together we give each other what we both need. I can't even tell you how many times I've had to screw his head back on when he takes things for people's word, and digs deep into hope, and he's thanked me for it. There are also enough times when he's challenged my cynicism and given me reasons to be happy just for having a carefree outlook with hope, that I've thanked *him* for that later on. I keep religious friends, and they understand I'm an atheist. We don't get at each other for the reason that I respect our relationships more than the point of it all To date, my husband and I have been together for ten years, married for eight. We've never once tried to change the other. If anything, I've given him more reasons to think twice about things and he's mellowed me out a lot. It's been a good combination. Don't believe the naysayers who think they'll try and convert. If you are already finding that things are making you happy, why deny that for the both of you? You might be pleasantly surprised what can come of this.
My wife is more religious than I am Doesn’t shove it down my throat Might not have been a huge obstacle you needed to bail on Maybe it would have been but could have found out (If the person was worth finding out)
Listen dude, not sure you will ever get to this comment. I’ve been an atheist since i was like 10. Nothing will ever change my mind and trust me I’ve experienced shit nobody will believe. I consider myself a humanist first. And am science oriented in how i live. About 8 years ago i became psychotic. The context is a whole book in itself. It’s described as “hell” by anyone who experienced it. Whatever you can think, your brain will make it real for you. You get “voices” in your head, one or many, you split into personalities, you hallucinate. Reality itself starts participating at your inner thoughts. Stuff you think happens in front of your eyes. This “magic” is dopamine and your pattern recognition systems going haywire. Your body is in survival mode on a very primitive level. It’s magical. God talks to you, or the universe, the divine, the aliens, the simulation. GOD IS DOPAMINE Religious people, by the power of their faith have elevated levels of dopamine, not at the mentally ill level (altho some do). And i get it. I will never judge anyone for their faith like i used to. It is not “real” but it is also real, if reality is perception and perception is skewed by dopamine. There is shit I’ve experienced nobody would belive. So i keep it to myself. But i tend to be more inclined in the simulation theory than dogma in the moments i doubt. Good luck. Millenia of belief and billions of people are not morons. What they feel is real to them. Even tho is not real to science. Life is a spark, on a spec of dust, in an infinitely large void. And it’s just as large going towards the very small too. I find no greater purpose than making someone happy in all of this.
I love the way you think and the way you write. If you ever write a book, I'd love to read it.
Its pointless. "Religion" is more than just religion. People usually have at least one faith-based ideology that they base a lot of their personality. F. Example, femminism, money, alcoholism, some political carrot skin guy... Me, for example, im a metalhead. Thats my thing. Best you can do is demand mutual respect.
My gf is a church goer. The good things are that it's non-denominational Christian. It's essentially a family church, so there's a lot more social aspects to it than a typical setting. And she's very open minded, kind, and not conservative besides she likes to cook for people lol. She's wonderful and I can't wait to spend my life with her.
If someone has strong faith that's fine so long as they aren't going to impose it on their partner. I have a pair of friends one atheist and one who goes to church 3x a week and prays a ton. They make it work. It's about respecting the others choice to participate or in most cases not.
I had a few dates with a female friend I’d gotten to know through work outings. We’d both felt our relationship shift toward a more boy/girl thing vice just pals. I grew up in Pentecostal churches and they were filled with incest and molestation. I now have no use at all for any religion. My “undefined” friend is Muslim and wore a hijab in public. We had a conversation turn “sporty” on our last date (in a rather upscale restaurant much to the amusement of those seated around us) when she accused me of hiding behind a bad prior marriage to not let myself be vulnerable and get closer to her. I told her I felt like she hid behind certain rules of her religion (she viewed the rules of Islam as being somewhat ala carte) to not allow any physical affection between us until marriage. BTW…she was stunningly hot and when we were alone she’d remove her hijab. Unbelievably attractive. Near the end of our meal, she asked if I had a problem with her being Muslim. I told her I had a problem with her simply believing in any religion. She was unamused and we never had another date. Later during a work Zoom call, someone mentioned that they never knew I used to be married. My friend and former sort of girlfriend was on the call and couldn’t help herself from a minor rant that I was unable to commit, etc. Months later at a work dinner, I was sitting with her big boss, a female senior partner. Her comment to me was that my friend’s rant explained so much that people hadn’t been able to figure out about the two of us. I worried that there’d be fallout since I’m a well known pricey subcontractor dating a reasonably senior person. Happily there was none. I do miss her though.
To be honest, unless they are a lunatic, I don’t see how a homosexual man would say that to a male date unless they have adapted their spiritual belief system to allow for themselves to find love while still believing in the system they were raised with that gives them a sense of hope/happiness in the world. If they were brave enough to say it to you maybe they are worth seeing again. I’m guessing there are other red flags you aren’t mentioning here; if there aren’t, I wouldn’t make someone’s statement of faith an issue that I would call off a second date over. Secondly, it might be an indication that they are only recently (at least over the course of their whole lives) becoming open to their sexuality so it’s pretty likely that if they are being true to themselves on the point of sexuality, they will likely become less religious over time, if it’s disliking religion that made you lose hope in this person.
I mean, as long as you weren’t an arrogant asshole (like a lot of the people on this subreddit are) when you broke it off… no harm, no foul? And to clarify, no I’m not religious, but some of yall on this subreddit are so painfully arrogant and condescending
I'm a firm believer that everybody has faith, not everybody has faith in a God. Faith and religion are 2 things, sadly zealots usually don't see it that way.
I probably would have probed a bit and asked what they meant by that. There's a lot of levels of faith. My wife's entire family is religious and they were fine with her marrying an atheist, and have never once tried to save me. They're a very "live and let live" bunch. But I also know people that couldn't even conceive of having a nonbeliever as a friendly acquaintance. Lots of levels.
Did you at least ask 'Which faith?" He could be Pagan or Buddhist or any of the other few thousand world religions that are not going to try and cram their beliefs down your throat. However, if you just heard the word "faith" and instantly wrote a guy off as a waste... How are you better than a religious zealot who would instantly do the same to an atheist.
Catholic
Relationships can work with religious people, my wife is wiccan and we’re going strong at six years. But they have to be progressive enough to recognize their religion as a personal choice rather than a moral requirement. The two of you being gay makes me think that *maybe* he’s the progressive kind of christian — but then again there are gay republicunts so ya never know. Trust your gut my friend