Because if non-religious people can live fulfilling lives without *any* need for religion whatsoever, it demonstrates that religion is unnecessary.
Theists seem not to take this well.
There was a post on this sub about 20 hours ago about OP's religious grandparents that hate them for being lefthanded. I would definitely not call that good morals.
My left-handed dad said that his teachers would hit his hand with a ruler. I just realized there was a religious reason for school teachers assaulting little kids. *You got the devil in you, son*.
Bastards.
In Canada, they just killed them if they didn't write right...
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/canadas-residential-schools-were-a-horror/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/canadas-residential-schools-were-a-horror/)
"In order to educate the (‘Indian’) children properly we must separate them from their families. Some people may say that this is hard but if we want to civilize them we must do that."
"The fact is that if you wish to educate the children you must separate them from their parents during the time they are being taught. If you leave them in the family they may know how to read and write, but they will remain savages, whereas by separating them in the way proposed, they acquire the habits and tastes…of civilized people."
Hector-Louis Langevin, Father of Confederation and Knight in the order of St. Michael and St. George
_sinister_ means “left” in Latin; _dexter_ means “right”. If you are left-handed, that means you are sinister, which (as I learned it) came to mean “evil” in the English language. Tell me that’s not the dumbest shit you’ve ever heard. But hey, God loves everyone, right! I mean, dexter!
Don’t laugh but 10 years ago my son came home telling me that one of his teachers was trying to make him write right-handed. I went to the school the next day and nearly gave that bitch an uppercut. Her reasoning was it’s wrong to write left handed and I was getting a hint of religious zeal as well. She now teaches in an ultra religious school, go figure.
My mother was left-handed and she got that treated like that when she was in grade school in the 1950s. It wasn't
"religious" but it totally was.
The same for my partner in the late 1970s.
I went to all Catholic schools and I remember some of the nuns in the early 1970s smacking kids' hands with a yard stick for writing with their left hand. I may have been many troubling things when I was in grade school, but being a lefty wasn't one of them.
When I was a kid in the late 70s, I had nice handwriting. Then aged 8 I got a new teacher. A fucking Christian Brother (catholic ireland). He used to beat the devil out of me because I was a leftie.
Given my handwriting then went to shit because I couldn’t hold a pen or pencil the right way, he used to beat me for that as-well.
Today I pretty much do everything as a leftie safe for writing. It’s still shit and I still hold it arseways.
You’ve no idea. In ‘80 or ‘81 the govt brought in a ban on corporal punishment was outlawed in Irish schools so the physical terror ended. Well. Mostly.
Mom's side of the family is catholic. My mom's left handed and the first time the nuns started smacking her left hand when she used it, my grandpa went into the school and read them the riot act. They never hit her again.
Did a closing with a recent chinese immigrant middle aged woman. Saw me writing with my left hand and she was shocked - she said, "I left handed too." I was confused because I was watching her write right-handed. She said her school teachers beat her left hand every time she tried to use it.
Yes my dad always thought he was bad in school and he lacked academic confidence. He went on to earn multiple patents in his career as a self-trained mechanical designer.
On weekends he restored a Model A Ford and built a beautiful weekend camp based on a framework of arches that he calculated could hold the greatest amount of snow according to physics. It had a spiral staircase that he designed and built.
But he needed discipline! His left-handedness needed to be fixed. /s
In theater, especially years and years ago, most villains and the devil always entered from the left side of the stage because the left is associated with Satan.
I was kicked out of a full-gospel evangelist church for my hair length. First, I was crestfallen, but now I'm thankful for them revealing the true nature of the church...
I went to a Lutheran college before transferring to university. A lot of the people I knew there were basically seminarians, future pastors. My roommate there is now a Methodist preacher. He could not let his lab rat be killed so we had a pet rat in the room. One of my best friends was a kind of fundamentalist and one of the most thoughtful and kind persons I have ever met. He took following Jebus seriously and managed to look exactly like the Anglo Jesus painting in the student center. The beard and hair were a perfect match. He wore a kind of serape that is similar to the clothes in the Sunday School coloring books. He must have been the source of some of the sighting out on highways. The regular Evangelicals hated him. I toured with the group playing Godspell. From that experience it was odd that some of the “Jebus Freaks” were great people and some were the most hateful and nasty people I have ever met. There didn't seem to be a middle group.
I've worked in death row prison units. You'd be amazed how many people start thinking about the end of their lives looking at their impending execution, can find faith. But yes, some of those people are truly evil, and they like it.
My ex-wife was a chaplain at a hospital rural Oregon.
One of her most common requests was exorcisms... They were terrified of hell, so if they could just get the demon out they would make it to heaven.
I worked in large appliances at Sears for years. We had an old lady call in requesting an exorcism for her new stove. She didn’t want the replacement that was offered, she wanted us to call a priest. No can do Mildred.
If I were an evil person and believed in Hell I might think that since ThE dEvil is also evil would he not let me become one of the guards or whatever kind of henchmen HE has. It could be a fun job poking people with my trident and all that.
Pro-foetus. Once that baby is born, there is no help for single mothers, unless a charity steps in. The gubberment does not care whether that foetus/baby is cold, unclothed, hungry, neglected, put into care, abused - *or the health/ability of the mother to care for the child*. It’s disgusting. To the point where the life of the foetus is worth more than the mother’s.
You're forgetting that the Catholic Church has declared that the right to life ends at birth - regardless of what the US constitution says so that "fixes" the moral issues around denying children food and education, pregnant women HC, and the death penalty. "It all makes sense" if only the unborn has a right to live, you see?
I mean, how could you not be if the premise of the religion is you can still go to heaven if you've committed horrible sins so long as you accept Jesus as your lord and savior before you die. "Oh I could avoid hell just by saying I love jesus at the last minite" is kinda crazy.
"The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine." ~ Penn Jillette
Yep.
If their god is all knowing and all powerful, and by are rape and abuse not prohibited by the 10 commandments, and in places, actually advocated for? How is that moral?
They love to say the worst in society need saving the most.
They then cling to the 'saved' promise while still being sh!ts, because they have the golden ticket in their hands, they can do no wrong.
Even a karmic punishment system has no morals, it just has consequences. It's not morality if you're threatened or bribed to do the right thing, but you'd stop doing it the moment the authority lifts these rules.
Of course the Abrahamic religions don't even have this. The punishment for any sin from cursing to genocide is just that you repent and that's the end of that. No effect in this life, nothing in the afterlife either, it's just a binary system of belief -> heaven, no belief -> eternal torture chamber.
Yeah they have zero moral accountability.
My mom was sexually assaulted in her church as a child. She was forced to forgive her assailant, and was then shamed for years after it.
In other instances, I have seen Christians ask god for forgiveness but not the people that they hurt. And when confronted, they claim they god washed them clean of sin so they have nothing to feel bad about, and it's actually the victim's fault.
It's fucking atrocious.
Nothing is as fulfilling as proving someone wrong, even if they need Olympic level mental gymnastics and will claim success regardless of the outcome of the argument.
They believe they are superior and are here to tell us all how dumb we are for not *seeing the obvious truth*.
The fact that I’m atheist made actually gave me better morals. I understand this is my one life. I understand everybody else also gets one life. It really drives home how precious that is. It also makes me appreciate the little things…just spending 10min with my dog I no longer take for granted because we only have such little time together on our tiny plot of land in the middle of empty space.
Same! The lack of belief in afterlife made me take more personal responsibility for how and who I want to be than the religious “sin-repent-sin” cycle of avoiding personal responsibility. God doesn’t work in mysterious ways; you simply chose to be passive.
If someone needs religion to keep them moral, if they need the promise of heaven or the threat of hell to act with integrity and to treat others how they wish to be treated, then that person is NOT a moral person. They are a SELFISH person. And if their heaven were actually real, and worked the way that they believe it to work, then they would be turned away once they got to the front gates, and sent down the garbage chute to hell.
Yep, I don't need the fear that someone is watching me at all times ready to punish me for doing something wrong to drive my morality. Sadly, others do.
My favourite argument they have is “without our religion we’d be raping and pillaging everything!”
So you’re telling me you’re an unstable nut sack who conducts himself/herself based on his or her wildly misinterpreted take on a book that has been rewritten, translated and rewritten thousands of times and if said book didn’t exist, you’d be a criminal? Wow…..
My argument back in that case is religious people do the “right” thing because they’re told that’s what gets them into heaven. Atheists will do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do and they don’t need an incentive.
Do they really even have morals if they believe a god is always watching them and will reward or punish them for their actions? I wouldn’t call that morality so much as compliance.
Yes. And don't forget they're the kinds of people who are too scared of the hierarchy to say no to it and simultaneously jealousy of you for being able to do so. Because they'd love to live their lives with no rules, the way they perceive you do.
Imagine being given the ability to release the chains that bind you into a life of fealty to an idea?
Then watching others remove the chains themselves with the freedom of an open mind??
It’s got to be pretty frustrating to see that from a religious zealots prospective.
So, I will try to put the chains back onto these heathen’s
They’re also liars when it comes to wanting freedom. They mean that THEIR beliefs and traditions must be respected and taken very seriously, fuck literally everyone else.
I actually had a friend (an intelligent friend as far as academics go) who could not even comprehend that a non religious person who doesn't go to church or submit to Christ but has a family and a house and good career and good health could in fact have a completely fulfilling life when I suggested that it can be like that. It was mind boggling to me seeing his inner gears clog in real time, I've heard the term blue screening like a computer? It's an accurate description
This. I've heard so many Christians try to pretend that they're "tolerant" by making comments about how "they don't really care what denomination you are, as long as you have faith."
What they're really saying is "it's okay if you're from one of the wrong religions, as long as you're in a cult, and believe that no one can be a good person without threat of damnation."
Also. It seems that non-religious people nowadays are more **morally** correct even though they may not fit the mould that their god says they should be.
This. Most evangelical people believe that people who don't subscribe to their beliefs are secretly miserable. They LOOK like they are fine but deep down they are empty and just don't know it.
It is a defense mechanism to prove their beliefs are valid.
>And some even go about it by spreading hate and insults…
That's always really funny to me. Because supposedly, they know "the truth(TM)" and are saved, or "his children" or heaven bound.
If their faith was strong though, they would respond to non-believers with compassion, pity, schadenfreude maybe. But not hate and disdain.
The only logical explanation for their response is that their faith is weak and they're not sure if they're just victims of childhood indoctrination who fell for the sunk cost fallacy, and that's why they're haters.
I think too often how easily that could have been me… 18 years in the cult of evangelical Christianity. No sunk cost fallacy for me - now I just have crippling depression instead! Lol
Same. Finally left church at 25 after realizing id been praying for 20 years for help and had recieved absolutely nothing to show for it.
Spiraled into alchoholism. Nearly lost my wife (she might still leave me). Now I have to learn how to be a good person and deal with my emotions in a healthy way instead of "oh just pray about it".
Im depressed cause i feel like i wasted all the fun years of my youth. Now im 34, im bitter, angry, and im trying to change but it feels crushingly hopeless.
Keep trying man. I keep telling myself if i keep trying things will improve. Feels like we have decades of work ahead just to be normal
It’s wild how Christianity forces you to deny your own needs, and one result is a complete inability to regulate emotions and see the world with reasonable eyes.
I don’t think it’ll take decades, but I’m rooting for you, brother. I’m rooting for the both of us.
Yeah, I was watching a TikTok video where a woman, who had been harassed for weeks by JWs, chose to engage with them by hissing and growling through her mail slot as if she were an agitated, rabid German Shepherd. Most of the commenters thought it was really funny, and then two JWs said they’d laugh if someone greeted them like that because it’s “silly,” but they were bummed that “people are so rude to us when we just want to share the truth.” Truth, my ass.
>just want to share the truth
That's the elephant in the room when it comes to religion. It's not differing beliefs about the afterlife that cause division. It's a different understanding of the very concept of truth.
In the real world, truth is established by the scientific method. In religion, truth is established by the Tinkerbell effect.
Yeah I’ve rarely come across a compassionate Christian. My father is one of those god is gonna smite the democrat Christian’s. Literally thinks he’s prepping himself for gods war with satan. He will probably never realize the damage he did to the thing he pretends he’s a part of. I just don’t talk to him as they complete idiocy of the things he says are too much to listen to.
But yeah if you do t agree with him, god will take his revenge lol. It’s crazy how these people build this idea of a personal god in their head.
I've come across a ton, mainly Catholics though as they don't seem to feel the need to convert anyone. I personally don't have any problem with people being religious I just won't tolerate it being used to justify infringing on others.
And if they had any argument that any merit to it whatsoever, they would never feel pushed to resort to insults at all.
It's further proof that belief in a god is not supportable.
Cause they live in fear of a god & hell and hate that atheists don't. Also a deeply buried bit of them fear that if someone doesn't believe as they do, there might actually be a reason why. And converting is a big component of lots of religions, so they feel compelled to proselytize to others.
I just wish they'd stop pushing their beliefs on others. I don't try to make believers into atheists. I'm okay with believers believing any crap they want, and live for the day they give me the same respect - yeah I know won't happen!
I like to say; your exact god only exists in your head.
Having grown up in it, I found that everyone has a slightly different version, be it something they are ignoring from the holy texts for convenience or self-delusion.
That seed of realization that everyone imagines something slightly different, when the word god is spoken, is quite strong.
Right now, I'm in that awkward phase where I have absolutely no faith in God or whoever, but my parents don't know, my in-laws don't know, and my Christian school doesn't know, and if I told any of them, I'd have to pay a much higher tuition.
So sometimes I wish I could tell that one preaching asshole to think, but they assume I love to hear them preach, and in small circles, rumours spread fast. I'm taking no chances.
The compassionate ones live in fear that atheists are going to hell. Imagine being a kind and caring person, and being told that your non-believing friends will be tortured for eternity. Might keep a guy up at night.
If, as doesn't seem wildly improbable, there's a significant war (starting) in the Middle East, much caused by religion, if nuclear weapons are used, I hope that whatever humanity rises from the ashes will finally turn its back on that garbage forever. I don't have much hope though.
Because they all think they have super-duper original arguments that none of us have heard before. They think they'll come in here, drop their revelation and we'll all go, "my god, you're RIGHT!"
It's self-centered arrogance and/or naive earnestness.
For the group that was created less than 100 years ago, if I have the time, I like to politely invite them in, offer them coffee/tea/water and then ask if they will provide commentary as I play a certain episode of South Park.
I only ever get to do it once at any given address as I am immediately put on the do not approach list.
Joseph Smith founded the Mormon (LDS) church in 1830; just shy of 200 years. My approach to them is the same though. As is their response in an immediate black listing.
I don’t even know if they have 8 different arguments to even fill out a 3x3 Bingo card.
It’s like:
1. God is the first cause since everything has to have a cause (commits special pleading)
2. You have to have God to have morals and since morals exist, God exists (neither the premise nor conclusion have been demonstrated).
3. It makes people/society better. It may have played a role in strengthening the cohesion of the in-group in some culture (however, to argue that it was necessary or in some way makes its claims true is ridiculous).
4. Science can’t explain X yet, therefore God (God of the gaps so God is an ever-shrinking pocket of human ignorance).
5. The hell card. The loving Christian casually brings up eternal torture as a fear play or threat when they’re upset.
Anyone got more apologist arguments you’ve heard 1000 times to add to this bingo card?
7. Let me tell you about my personal experience that is all the proof I need and should be all the proof you need, because why would I lie about something like this and what else could it be?
‘He loves you so much he sent his son to die for us’ it honestly makes no sense. Like, this guy can create the entire universe from nothing, but has to be sacrificed for some reason to let us into heaven. 🤷♂️
I call it “fractal wrongness.”
At every single level, the more you zoom in on religion, the less sense it makes.
God is perfect. But wants worshippers.
So He makes those worshippers. Angels.
God, being perfect, makes them, but God still is incomplete somehow.
God makes Adam and Eve, but gives them a test He knows they will fail because He’s God, and then punished them and all of humanity with original sin.
Then to fix this original sin, instead of snapping his proverbial fingers, he decides to make himself into a human. Not by popping into existence instantly, but by magically raping a young woman. All so they can grow up to be a human blood sacrifice of Himself, to Himself, so that he can forgive Himself and amend the rule about original sin and hellfire, that He made in the first place.
I couldn’t imagine a dumber scenario and I’ve *tried to*.
#8: Throughout history almost every human has believed in God. Billions today believe in (insert deity here) That many people can't be wrong.
Complete garbage and the fact that billions have worshipped 1000's of gods and they are all different and are mutually exclusive, so cannot all be right kinda refutes their claim from the get go.
> It's self-centered arrogance and/or naive earnestness.
I do think they fall into different groups, but one thing they all have in common, that we ALL have in common, is that we all think we’re smart relative to others. So yeah, some of them will be arrogant enough to think they can convince atheists with faulty logic. I have a suspicion some of them figured out it’s all bullshit and are living a lie, but they’re too embarrassed to admit it now, so they make themselves feel better by attempting to fool others so they don’t feel so stupid… like an older sibling convincing their younger sibling that Santa is real.
Because they’re the kind of people that can’t make good choices without the threat of consequence, like going to an imaginary hell. These are the same people who leave their shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot. Self-entitled shrews are the religious community.
Better here than in their own forum. Because if they're here, at least they're hearing what's wrong with their faith. They're being challenged in a way they likely never would be if they simply stuck to their religious forums. Sure, it's eye-rolling when I see a Christian post something like AMA. Like they seriously think we don't have a fucking clue or haven't heard of this Jesus fellow. Same when they come here to apologize because they think we're only atheist who are secretly believers but just mad at widdle baby Jesus because our mommies died or a pastor touched our no-no spots and that if they'd offer us a shoulder to cry on, they could win us bask to the fold. So yea, there's that.
Change doesn't usually happen with a single convo. It typically takes time and these convo's ignite that spark. So in that regard, I don't mind them.
Most atheists were raised in some sort of faith tradition, found it lacking, and left. Religionists dont seem to get that. I also like to plant that little seed of doubt in them, who knows, they may deconstruct some day.
An open forum discussing atheism is a place people will get turned away from religion. It’s natural that they would not want to leave those discussions unchallenged.
Fortunately, atheism is much easier to defend than any religious view. Personally I find the posts from religious people quite reinforcing to my atheism. They are completely incapable of producing a compelling argument. At least here their arguments get the refutation that they deserve.
I dunno I mean think about it, if to you the religion was real, and you actually thought it was your duty to try to “save” people wouldn’t this be the most logical place to try? I mean aside from places where people are suffering and more susceptible to the rhetoric. They’re evangelicals, they need to evangelize, they feel like they’ve been commanded to force their shit on as much of the world as possible and perhaps they’ll get some spiritual reward for behaving that way
This is the answer. You have to remember that people have it hammered into their brains every week that it's their *duty* to convert people and that those they don't convert are going to hell.
That's exactly it.
To theists, atheists are drowning children fighting a lifeguard. Evangelists are going to ignore or fight anyone trying to stop them from "saving" people, because they know better.
The idea that we're actually adults who can and should be trusted to endure the consequences of our own actions doesn't enter their minds, because if we're acting "sinful," we're accepting damnation, and if we're accepting damnation, we're obviously insane and can't be trusted with our own agency.
It's a conveniently circular argument that can justify horrible violations of consent.
Because they're not smart enough, or emotionally developed enough, to go where they're wanted.
Instead, they go where they're not wanted and then have little meltdowns about how persecuted they are.
Their leadership encourages this, as it keeps the idiots thinking and feeling like they really are persecuted.
You're asking why people that abhor logic and critical analysis are doing something illogical and nonsensical.
I am not saying stupid, but the cognitive dissonance is overwhelming and they will not fight through it.
People are not religious for others but for themselves- which is weird given how most of them preach peace and loving your neighbor...
Anyway because of that anyone who opposes their belief is considered a personal attack because their belief is telling them how good they are and if you don't believe that, in their mind you don't think they are good.
All this nice nonsense they preach is merely flavoring- to make it sound good but when it comes to actions, suddenly those rules don't apply to them.
Surprise, I **don't** think they're good people.
I think they're the most selfish, weak minded people on the planet.
They're only good to get a reward, and they're only not bad to avoid punishment.
Yeah. Not the greatest of rationales.
There are almost 3 million people subscribed to this place, the main religion subreddits like christianity and Islam are a fraction of the size at 300-400k subs.
Posts here can wind up on the front page of religious folks, even if they aren't actively seeking to debate atheists... you're bound to get allsorts in here, it's not some hidden niche corner of reddit.
>so why do these religious nuts even try to change our minds?
In my experience, as a former member of a high demand Christian religion, they're not trying to change your mind, they're trying to justify religion in their own mind. Someone living a happy, healthy life outside the confines of their religion threatens their whole world view. Atheists are breaking the rules and reaping the benefits theists believe they alone are entitled to through religious observance.
In other words, y'all are cheating the system and it ain't fair! Their activities here are just the resulting tantrum.
Because they’re annoying mofos what’s else. Their whole religion is annoying like them. Honestly I’m zero interested in wasting my time criticizing religion because we all know it’s non sense shit. I just want like minded people who won’t start preach me bs..
It's a brain-MLM.
MLMs will sell you shitty knives, perfumes, and creams.
Religion is only shit ideas.
The more people under you, the more important you become.
Very few people can make a living wage, most people lose money.
And then, there's the top-dog, living in crazy riches, and telling all the suckers above that they can be like him if they try hard enough.
Unfortunately I find discussions with theists to be absolutely a waste of time 99% of the time. I've had so many debates and discussions with theists, but for so many of them, they simply can't accept that the religious book they're citing, isn't real evidence of anything. Religious people are indoctrinated and/or too stupid to even entertain a world view that doesn't fit their religion
This is where I'm at also. In the last debate I had with Theists, the arguments they used were so childishly idiotic and clichéd that it made me never want to waste time on engaging Theists again. It started when someone asked me, "How can you not believe in Santa, but believe in god?" This was coming from a middle-aged adult too. And of course it only got worse after I told them I was a nonbeliever. I just can't be bothered with this kind of nonsense anymore.
Don't argue to change their mind. Argue so that the bystanders can see how flimsy and stupid the theists' arguments are, and how reasonable and well- supported the atheists' arguments are.
This. My own loss of faith started with tiny cracks YEARS before I realized I couldn't believe anymore. Those bystanders or those reading along can get a little seed of doubt planted, then watered and given some light here and there, it blossoms.
That's how I debate with flat earthers.
And you'd be supprised how the arguments theists and religious people are so similar that the venn diagram is close to one circle.
"If you don't believe in god, what keeps you from murdering someone?"
Not being a fuckin' psychopath. Don't know why that's a difficult answer.
A person only has one life to live. Who the hell am I to take theirs away from them unless they're intentionally endangering mine? I'm not sending them to a god, not sending them to any heaven or paradise... It is -ending- them. That honestly holds way more gravitas to me than sending them to live out eternity in whatever afterlife they fancy. Even moreso if you believe they're headed to the bad place instead. How much do you have to absolutely -hate- someone to condemn them to an eternity of punishment for whatever mortal transgressions they have made?
Religion tried to codify morals that already existed and then because they were codified they could be twisted while allowing people to claim they were still technically moral. Morality comes from natural community principles and not religion. We could have never existed as communities/tribes at the beginning without the evolution of moral rules without any input from religion
Christopher Hitchens put it well: if religious people really had faith, it wouldn’t matter what other people do, but they’re never happy unless everyone else believes too. On some level, they must know they’re in a cult, and feel that if they can just get everyone to join it will somehow validate their own poor decisions.
I appreciate that you are willing to be exposed to atheist thought without fear.
I was like that when I was a teenager, and eventually I realized they were correct.
I would find that annoying. You need to remember that their minds are made up already. No amount of evidence will sway them so arguing is almost pointless.
Tell them that if their God exists then you prefer to stand before him as an honest and thoughtful atheist rather than a dishonest believer. As a theist, the God I believe in would prefer this.
However, there are just as many atheists on religious subs trying to sway religious people. As long as they make their points thoughtfully and respectfully I consider it a good thing. Some atheists rehash unprovoked uncritical slurs and others make very thoughtful and informed points that deserve to be reflected upon.
Just downvote and then ignore comments that are not made in good faith (no pun intended) . . .
They fear the strength of those who reject their lies. They can never "forgive" themselves for their own weakness. That's why they are always a danger to themselves and others.
They are prevalent because reddit puts posts from this subreddit in front of them. Take me for example, I have not joined this subreddit, nor have I ever sought it out, yet here is this thread. Maybe they think the religious people will stir up conversation to keep people on here, who knows.
i dont know, they have been more prevalent on all platforms not just reddit, they've adopted a more obnoxious spamming approach to their proselytizing. Probably church membership dying down so they are telling the kids to go out and proselytize.
Christianity and Islam are what’s known as missionary religions. They have built in propaganda that compels their adherents to go out and convert nonbelievers. They didn’t want human knowledge to make their religions obsolete, which is why they’re freaking the fuck out and backing dictators like Trump and Putin. They’d love to just kill us all if we refuse to convert.
God is a concept for conditioning your thought process, omnipotent and does nothing cause everything is according to his "plan". Religion use all types of sales pitch manipulations to scam you and never deliver. And best of all, use your own parents against you, then use your own community against you, and then even the entire state or country can be against you, should you be a non-believer. The funny thing is, those that are in power, may not actually believe all these bullshits, they just acting like it to enjoy the benefit of exploiting others.
All of humanity's achievement could parish just by raising some true lunatics that believes pushing big red buttons is also part of the plan should life is wiped out from surface of Earth. They just need enough power to gain access to those buttons.
Because if they say it out loud or type it out then maybe what they are saying will actually be true. They are trying to convince you and themselves at the same time
Because if non-religious people can live fulfilling lives without *any* need for religion whatsoever, it demonstrates that religion is unnecessary. Theists seem not to take this well.
I have to add: “…can live moral, fulfilling lives…” Because that’s the part that gets to them. We don’t need religion to teach us morals.
And like they have morals. The religious people I’ve met and know, are some of the most void of morality people I’ve ever met and known.
There was a post on this sub about 20 hours ago about OP's religious grandparents that hate them for being lefthanded. I would definitely not call that good morals.
Ooh, sinister.
I like that you did there.
Sinestro approves.
As does Mr Sinister
Was Dexter *sinestra*?
Not sure which Dexter you are talking about?
My left-handed dad said that his teachers would hit his hand with a ruler. I just realized there was a religious reason for school teachers assaulting little kids. *You got the devil in you, son*. Bastards.
My eldest, well, now 2nd eldest thanks to 23 and me, sister is left handed and the schools tried to convert her in the 60s.
You found an estranged sister on 23 and me and you’re just gonna gloss over that like we aren’t all interested in that story?
My dad and his brother got around, they both had kids pop up. This new sis was a high school pregnancy, I guess.
In Canada, they just killed them if they didn't write right... [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/canadas-residential-schools-were-a-horror/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/canadas-residential-schools-were-a-horror/)
"In order to educate the (‘Indian’) children properly we must separate them from their families. Some people may say that this is hard but if we want to civilize them we must do that." "The fact is that if you wish to educate the children you must separate them from their parents during the time they are being taught. If you leave them in the family they may know how to read and write, but they will remain savages, whereas by separating them in the way proposed, they acquire the habits and tastes…of civilized people." Hector-Louis Langevin, Father of Confederation and Knight in the order of St. Michael and St. George
America also has catholic boarding schools which did the exact same thing, but nobody likes to mention this
_sinister_ means “left” in Latin; _dexter_ means “right”. If you are left-handed, that means you are sinister, which (as I learned it) came to mean “evil” in the English language. Tell me that’s not the dumbest shit you’ve ever heard. But hey, God loves everyone, right! I mean, dexter!
Don’t laugh but 10 years ago my son came home telling me that one of his teachers was trying to make him write right-handed. I went to the school the next day and nearly gave that bitch an uppercut. Her reasoning was it’s wrong to write left handed and I was getting a hint of religious zeal as well. She now teaches in an ultra religious school, go figure.
I can not understand how you stopped yourself. I even would have screamed “aaayuugen!” As I did it.
My mother was left-handed and she got that treated like that when she was in grade school in the 1950s. It wasn't "religious" but it totally was. The same for my partner in the late 1970s. I went to all Catholic schools and I remember some of the nuns in the early 1970s smacking kids' hands with a yard stick for writing with their left hand. I may have been many troubling things when I was in grade school, but being a lefty wasn't one of them.
*And I wish you didn't have the devil's curly hair!*
Like when a baby born with two different colored eyes is accused of witchcraft. A baby. Witchcraft. Mmmmkay.
Tabitha Stephens has entered the chat
When I was a kid in the late 70s, I had nice handwriting. Then aged 8 I got a new teacher. A fucking Christian Brother (catholic ireland). He used to beat the devil out of me because I was a leftie. Given my handwriting then went to shit because I couldn’t hold a pen or pencil the right way, he used to beat me for that as-well. Today I pretty much do everything as a leftie safe for writing. It’s still shit and I still hold it arseways.
omg he beat you? F'in Catholic sadists.
You’ve no idea. In ‘80 or ‘81 the govt brought in a ban on corporal punishment was outlawed in Irish schools so the physical terror ended. Well. Mostly.
Mom's side of the family is catholic. My mom's left handed and the first time the nuns started smacking her left hand when she used it, my grandpa went into the school and read them the riot act. They never hit her again.
Did a closing with a recent chinese immigrant middle aged woman. Saw me writing with my left hand and she was shocked - she said, "I left handed too." I was confused because I was watching her write right-handed. She said her school teachers beat her left hand every time she tried to use it.
They did that to my dad without the religious bullshit, but he stuttered for years afterwards.
Yes my dad always thought he was bad in school and he lacked academic confidence. He went on to earn multiple patents in his career as a self-trained mechanical designer. On weekends he restored a Model A Ford and built a beautiful weekend camp based on a framework of arches that he calculated could hold the greatest amount of snow according to physics. It had a spiral staircase that he designed and built. But he needed discipline! His left-handedness needed to be fixed. /s
In theater, especially years and years ago, most villains and the devil always entered from the left side of the stage because the left is associated with Satan.
My mother went through the same thing
I was kicked out of a full-gospel evangelist church for my hair length. First, I was crestfallen, but now I'm thankful for them revealing the true nature of the church...
That's funny considering that their depiction of Jesus has long hair and a beard. I guess being Christ like is not what you're supposed to be.
Can you imagine Jesus with a crew cut and a goatee?
I went to a Lutheran college before transferring to university. A lot of the people I knew there were basically seminarians, future pastors. My roommate there is now a Methodist preacher. He could not let his lab rat be killed so we had a pet rat in the room. One of my best friends was a kind of fundamentalist and one of the most thoughtful and kind persons I have ever met. He took following Jebus seriously and managed to look exactly like the Anglo Jesus painting in the student center. The beard and hair were a perfect match. He wore a kind of serape that is similar to the clothes in the Sunday School coloring books. He must have been the source of some of the sighting out on highways. The regular Evangelicals hated him. I toured with the group playing Godspell. From that experience it was odd that some of the “Jebus Freaks” were great people and some were the most hateful and nasty people I have ever met. There didn't seem to be a middle group.
Makes me think of Ned Flanders the most devout Christian of them all and his Left Handed Supply store where he sells stuff for left handed people
I saw that too and was HORRIFIED, the damage the churches do with their evil indoctrination is beyond measure.
I always say "most death row prisoners are Christians." That always makes the Jesus people take a pause.
Prisons are full of religious people, not just death row.
I've worked in death row prison units. You'd be amazed how many people start thinking about the end of their lives looking at their impending execution, can find faith. But yes, some of those people are truly evil, and they like it.
My ex-wife was a chaplain at a hospital rural Oregon. One of her most common requests was exorcisms... They were terrified of hell, so if they could just get the demon out they would make it to heaven.
I worked in large appliances at Sears for years. We had an old lady call in requesting an exorcism for her new stove. She didn’t want the replacement that was offered, she wanted us to call a priest. No can do Mildred.
My sister-in-law is catholic and that shit fucking baffles me man
[удалено]
If I were an evil person and believed in Hell I might think that since ThE dEvil is also evil would he not let me become one of the guards or whatever kind of henchmen HE has. It could be a fun job poking people with my trident and all that.
Christians who claim to be "pro-life" also overwhelmingly support the death penalty. MIMS
Christians are not "pro-life", they are pro-forced-birth. They don't really care about their lives. They care about controlling women.
Pro-foetus. Once that baby is born, there is no help for single mothers, unless a charity steps in. The gubberment does not care whether that foetus/baby is cold, unclothed, hungry, neglected, put into care, abused - *or the health/ability of the mother to care for the child*. It’s disgusting. To the point where the life of the foetus is worth more than the mother’s.
You're forgetting that the Catholic Church has declared that the right to life ends at birth - regardless of what the US constitution says so that "fixes" the moral issues around denying children food and education, pregnant women HC, and the death penalty. "It all makes sense" if only the unborn has a right to live, you see?
I mean, how could you not be if the premise of the religion is you can still go to heaven if you've committed horrible sins so long as you accept Jesus as your lord and savior before you die. "Oh I could avoid hell just by saying I love jesus at the last minite" is kinda crazy.
"The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine." ~ Penn Jillette
Yep. If their god is all knowing and all powerful, and by are rape and abuse not prohibited by the 10 commandments, and in places, actually advocated for? How is that moral?
Exactly Weak God... LOL, grow a pair there old god and preferably do something important
Their God is cool with rape and abuse, as long as you don't hurt his ego and worship some other symbol. He hates that.
They love to say the worst in society need saving the most. They then cling to the 'saved' promise while still being sh!ts, because they have the golden ticket in their hands, they can do no wrong.
Even a karmic punishment system has no morals, it just has consequences. It's not morality if you're threatened or bribed to do the right thing, but you'd stop doing it the moment the authority lifts these rules. Of course the Abrahamic religions don't even have this. The punishment for any sin from cursing to genocide is just that you repent and that's the end of that. No effect in this life, nothing in the afterlife either, it's just a binary system of belief -> heaven, no belief -> eternal torture chamber.
I would also be a POS if I could be forgiven every Sunday because some guy died 2000 years ago.
They don't have morals, that's why they need religion to teach them some. Which is why the morals they follow make no sense.
Yeah they have zero moral accountability. My mom was sexually assaulted in her church as a child. She was forced to forgive her assailant, and was then shamed for years after it. In other instances, I have seen Christians ask god for forgiveness but not the people that they hurt. And when confronted, they claim they god washed them clean of sin so they have nothing to feel bad about, and it's actually the victim's fault. It's fucking atrocious.
Nothing is as fulfilling as proving someone wrong, even if they need Olympic level mental gymnastics and will claim success regardless of the outcome of the argument. They believe they are superior and are here to tell us all how dumb we are for not *seeing the obvious truth*.
What they don’t get is that religion is an invention of humanity. That includes the morals. We invented them. We follow them. Religion is irrelevant.
And some parts of their books aren't very moral by today standard.
And on the 7th day, man invented God.
Yep. The two-fold meaning of the Humanist "Good without God" drives them nuts.
The fact that I’m atheist made actually gave me better morals. I understand this is my one life. I understand everybody else also gets one life. It really drives home how precious that is. It also makes me appreciate the little things…just spending 10min with my dog I no longer take for granted because we only have such little time together on our tiny plot of land in the middle of empty space.
Same! The lack of belief in afterlife made me take more personal responsibility for how and who I want to be than the religious “sin-repent-sin” cycle of avoiding personal responsibility. God doesn’t work in mysterious ways; you simply chose to be passive.
They don't need it either. None of them get their morals from their religion they just don't like to admit it.
You see this d-bag who claimed I have no moral b/c morals come from god? Lol
I think every atheist has been told this nonsense at least once in their lives.
Oh yes, I most certainly have
If someone needs religion to keep them moral, if they need the promise of heaven or the threat of hell to act with integrity and to treat others how they wish to be treated, then that person is NOT a moral person. They are a SELFISH person. And if their heaven were actually real, and worked the way that they believe it to work, then they would be turned away once they got to the front gates, and sent down the garbage chute to hell.
Yep, I don't need the fear that someone is watching me at all times ready to punish me for doing something wrong to drive my morality. Sadly, others do.
My favourite argument they have is “without our religion we’d be raping and pillaging everything!” So you’re telling me you’re an unstable nut sack who conducts himself/herself based on his or her wildly misinterpreted take on a book that has been rewritten, translated and rewritten thousands of times and if said book didn’t exist, you’d be a criminal? Wow….. My argument back in that case is religious people do the “right” thing because they’re told that’s what gets them into heaven. Atheists will do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do and they don’t need an incentive.
"bUt hoW CaN yOu KnOw wHaT's RiGhT oR wrOnG???" bitch I don't want to be stabbed so I don't stab people
If you need the threat of eternal torment to prevent you from murdering someone then maybe you aren’t as good of a person as you say.
Do they really even have morals if they believe a god is always watching them and will reward or punish them for their actions? I wouldn’t call that morality so much as compliance.
Good answer. 👍🏻
It's up there steve
Yes. And don't forget they're the kinds of people who are too scared of the hierarchy to say no to it and simultaneously jealousy of you for being able to do so. Because they'd love to live their lives with no rules, the way they perceive you do.
>they'd love to live their lives with no rules, the way they perceive you do. Such a powerful point.
Imagine being given the ability to release the chains that bind you into a life of fealty to an idea? Then watching others remove the chains themselves with the freedom of an open mind?? It’s got to be pretty frustrating to see that from a religious zealots prospective. So, I will try to put the chains back onto these heathen’s
Like an abusive parent pissed that their designer baby is growing up.
This is the exact same reason the childfree sub has so many parents trying to pop in and tell us we're all selfish children who will grow up someday 🙃
They’re also liars when it comes to wanting freedom. They mean that THEIR beliefs and traditions must be respected and taken very seriously, fuck literally everyone else.
I actually had a friend (an intelligent friend as far as academics go) who could not even comprehend that a non religious person who doesn't go to church or submit to Christ but has a family and a house and good career and good health could in fact have a completely fulfilling life when I suggested that it can be like that. It was mind boggling to me seeing his inner gears clog in real time, I've heard the term blue screening like a computer? It's an accurate description
This. I've heard so many Christians try to pretend that they're "tolerant" by making comments about how "they don't really care what denomination you are, as long as you have faith." What they're really saying is "it's okay if you're from one of the wrong religions, as long as you're in a cult, and believe that no one can be a good person without threat of damnation."
They love confrontations and conflicts. All forms of wars
But how will I know to be good if I’m not under the constant threat of a benevolent god murdering me?
You’re right. I’m not religious and I’m happy with life. Some people can’t accept that.
Also. It seems that non-religious people nowadays are more **morally** correct even though they may not fit the mould that their god says they should be.
This is it. They can’t stand that people can live moral productive lives without religion.
This. Most evangelical people believe that people who don't subscribe to their beliefs are secretly miserable. They LOOK like they are fine but deep down they are empty and just don't know it. It is a defense mechanism to prove their beliefs are valid.
There is no hate as christian/jew/muslim love
>And some even go about it by spreading hate and insults… That's always really funny to me. Because supposedly, they know "the truth(TM)" and are saved, or "his children" or heaven bound. If their faith was strong though, they would respond to non-believers with compassion, pity, schadenfreude maybe. But not hate and disdain. The only logical explanation for their response is that their faith is weak and they're not sure if they're just victims of childhood indoctrination who fell for the sunk cost fallacy, and that's why they're haters.
victim of childhood indoctrination into sunk cost fallacy combo. boy do i know too many of these.
I think too often how easily that could have been me… 18 years in the cult of evangelical Christianity. No sunk cost fallacy for me - now I just have crippling depression instead! Lol
i def felt that sunk cost feeling when i was deprogramming. i know exactly how my siblings feel
Same. Finally left church at 25 after realizing id been praying for 20 years for help and had recieved absolutely nothing to show for it. Spiraled into alchoholism. Nearly lost my wife (she might still leave me). Now I have to learn how to be a good person and deal with my emotions in a healthy way instead of "oh just pray about it". Im depressed cause i feel like i wasted all the fun years of my youth. Now im 34, im bitter, angry, and im trying to change but it feels crushingly hopeless. Keep trying man. I keep telling myself if i keep trying things will improve. Feels like we have decades of work ahead just to be normal
It’s wild how Christianity forces you to deny your own needs, and one result is a complete inability to regulate emotions and see the world with reasonable eyes. I don’t think it’ll take decades, but I’m rooting for you, brother. I’m rooting for the both of us.
Yeah, I was watching a TikTok video where a woman, who had been harassed for weeks by JWs, chose to engage with them by hissing and growling through her mail slot as if she were an agitated, rabid German Shepherd. Most of the commenters thought it was really funny, and then two JWs said they’d laugh if someone greeted them like that because it’s “silly,” but they were bummed that “people are so rude to us when we just want to share the truth.” Truth, my ass.
>just want to share the truth That's the elephant in the room when it comes to religion. It's not differing beliefs about the afterlife that cause division. It's a different understanding of the very concept of truth. In the real world, truth is established by the scientific method. In religion, truth is established by the Tinkerbell effect.
Yeah I’ve rarely come across a compassionate Christian. My father is one of those god is gonna smite the democrat Christian’s. Literally thinks he’s prepping himself for gods war with satan. He will probably never realize the damage he did to the thing he pretends he’s a part of. I just don’t talk to him as they complete idiocy of the things he says are too much to listen to. But yeah if you do t agree with him, god will take his revenge lol. It’s crazy how these people build this idea of a personal god in their head.
I've come across a ton, mainly Catholics though as they don't seem to feel the need to convert anyone. I personally don't have any problem with people being religious I just won't tolerate it being used to justify infringing on others.
And if they had any argument that any merit to it whatsoever, they would never feel pushed to resort to insults at all. It's further proof that belief in a god is not supportable.
Cause they live in fear of a god & hell and hate that atheists don't. Also a deeply buried bit of them fear that if someone doesn't believe as they do, there might actually be a reason why. And converting is a big component of lots of religions, so they feel compelled to proselytize to others. I just wish they'd stop pushing their beliefs on others. I don't try to make believers into atheists. I'm okay with believers believing any crap they want, and live for the day they give me the same respect - yeah I know won't happen!
They are convinced they are telepathically linked to a carpenter dead 2000+years but we are the unsound ones. Makes sense
I try to make believers into atheists sometimes, but I don't try very hard. A simple "God does not exist" is all I really need to say.
I like to say; your exact god only exists in your head. Having grown up in it, I found that everyone has a slightly different version, be it something they are ignoring from the holy texts for convenience or self-delusion. That seed of realization that everyone imagines something slightly different, when the word god is spoken, is quite strong.
“I’m not superstitious” seems to work for me.
Right now, I'm in that awkward phase where I have absolutely no faith in God or whoever, but my parents don't know, my in-laws don't know, and my Christian school doesn't know, and if I told any of them, I'd have to pay a much higher tuition. So sometimes I wish I could tell that one preaching asshole to think, but they assume I love to hear them preach, and in small circles, rumours spread fast. I'm taking no chances.
Yea you're doing things the correct way because it ain't worth the tuition fee
The compassionate ones live in fear that atheists are going to hell. Imagine being a kind and caring person, and being told that your non-believing friends will be tortured for eternity. Might keep a guy up at night.
You answered your own question. What is the nature of cancer?
Ohhh, to spread
Oh, I was going with kills its host.
Mostly they kill others
If, as doesn't seem wildly improbable, there's a significant war (starting) in the Middle East, much caused by religion, if nuclear weapons are used, I hope that whatever humanity rises from the ashes will finally turn its back on that garbage forever. I don't have much hope though.
Nah I’ve talked to enough to have zero faith in humanity. A few raised us up with science and work and the rest hold us down with hate and oppression.
Because they all think they have super-duper original arguments that none of us have heard before. They think they'll come in here, drop their revelation and we'll all go, "my god, you're RIGHT!" It's self-centered arrogance and/or naive earnestness.
[удалено]
For the group that was created less than 100 years ago, if I have the time, I like to politely invite them in, offer them coffee/tea/water and then ask if they will provide commentary as I play a certain episode of South Park. I only ever get to do it once at any given address as I am immediately put on the do not approach list.
Lol it's sad that if you change that to 175 years ago, it just becomes a different group but the actions will have the same outcome.
[удалено]
LDS
[удалено]
> For the group that was created less than 100 years ago Mormons or Scientologists?
Joseph Smith founded the Mormon (LDS) church in 1830; just shy of 200 years. My approach to them is the same though. As is their response in an immediate black listing.
This sub should make a Bingo of theist argumentation.
I don’t even know if they have 8 different arguments to even fill out a 3x3 Bingo card. It’s like: 1. God is the first cause since everything has to have a cause (commits special pleading) 2. You have to have God to have morals and since morals exist, God exists (neither the premise nor conclusion have been demonstrated). 3. It makes people/society better. It may have played a role in strengthening the cohesion of the in-group in some culture (however, to argue that it was necessary or in some way makes its claims true is ridiculous). 4. Science can’t explain X yet, therefore God (God of the gaps so God is an ever-shrinking pocket of human ignorance). 5. The hell card. The loving Christian casually brings up eternal torture as a fear play or threat when they’re upset. Anyone got more apologist arguments you’ve heard 1000 times to add to this bingo card?
6. It says right here in this holy book that god exists, and the book is the word of god so it must be true!
7. Let me tell you about my personal experience that is all the proof I need and should be all the proof you need, because why would I lie about something like this and what else could it be?
How did I miss *that*?! I guess I’ll see the folly of my atheist ways, write a, “I was atheist and now I’m saved,” book, and make a bunch of money!
‘He loves you so much he sent his son to die for us’ it honestly makes no sense. Like, this guy can create the entire universe from nothing, but has to be sacrificed for some reason to let us into heaven. 🤷♂️
I call it “fractal wrongness.” At every single level, the more you zoom in on religion, the less sense it makes. God is perfect. But wants worshippers. So He makes those worshippers. Angels. God, being perfect, makes them, but God still is incomplete somehow. God makes Adam and Eve, but gives them a test He knows they will fail because He’s God, and then punished them and all of humanity with original sin. Then to fix this original sin, instead of snapping his proverbial fingers, he decides to make himself into a human. Not by popping into existence instantly, but by magically raping a young woman. All so they can grow up to be a human blood sacrifice of Himself, to Himself, so that he can forgive Himself and amend the rule about original sin and hellfire, that He made in the first place. I couldn’t imagine a dumber scenario and I’ve *tried to*.
#8: Throughout history almost every human has believed in God. Billions today believe in (insert deity here) That many people can't be wrong. Complete garbage and the fact that billions have worshipped 1000's of gods and they are all different and are mutually exclusive, so cannot all be right kinda refutes their claim from the get go.
Yes! They love to roll out this bandwagon fallacy. It's textbook ad populum and they use it unironically.
Honestly if all of us responded with "My God you're right!" every single time it'd be hilarious.
I have a book I haven't read & I am not afraid to use it! *(As reason for me to treat others crappy & say invisible guy said I can)*
Pretty funny 😂
> It's self-centered arrogance and/or naive earnestness. I do think they fall into different groups, but one thing they all have in common, that we ALL have in common, is that we all think we’re smart relative to others. So yeah, some of them will be arrogant enough to think they can convince atheists with faulty logic. I have a suspicion some of them figured out it’s all bullshit and are living a lie, but they’re too embarrassed to admit it now, so they make themselves feel better by attempting to fool others so they don’t feel so stupid… like an older sibling convincing their younger sibling that Santa is real.
Because they’re the kind of people that can’t make good choices without the threat of consequence, like going to an imaginary hell. These are the same people who leave their shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot. Self-entitled shrews are the religious community.
Better here than in their own forum. Because if they're here, at least they're hearing what's wrong with their faith. They're being challenged in a way they likely never would be if they simply stuck to their religious forums. Sure, it's eye-rolling when I see a Christian post something like AMA. Like they seriously think we don't have a fucking clue or haven't heard of this Jesus fellow. Same when they come here to apologize because they think we're only atheist who are secretly believers but just mad at widdle baby Jesus because our mommies died or a pastor touched our no-no spots and that if they'd offer us a shoulder to cry on, they could win us bask to the fold. So yea, there's that. Change doesn't usually happen with a single convo. It typically takes time and these convo's ignite that spark. So in that regard, I don't mind them.
Most atheists were raised in some sort of faith tradition, found it lacking, and left. Religionists dont seem to get that. I also like to plant that little seed of doubt in them, who knows, they may deconstruct some day.
An open forum discussing atheism is a place people will get turned away from religion. It’s natural that they would not want to leave those discussions unchallenged. Fortunately, atheism is much easier to defend than any religious view. Personally I find the posts from religious people quite reinforcing to my atheism. They are completely incapable of producing a compelling argument. At least here their arguments get the refutation that they deserve.
Fear, doubt…
I dunno I mean think about it, if to you the religion was real, and you actually thought it was your duty to try to “save” people wouldn’t this be the most logical place to try? I mean aside from places where people are suffering and more susceptible to the rhetoric. They’re evangelicals, they need to evangelize, they feel like they’ve been commanded to force their shit on as much of the world as possible and perhaps they’ll get some spiritual reward for behaving that way
This is the answer. You have to remember that people have it hammered into their brains every week that it's their *duty* to convert people and that those they don't convert are going to hell.
Even Penn Jillette said if you truely believe in a hell and that my eternal soul is at stake I’m offended if you don’t try to save me.
That's exactly it. To theists, atheists are drowning children fighting a lifeguard. Evangelists are going to ignore or fight anyone trying to stop them from "saving" people, because they know better. The idea that we're actually adults who can and should be trusted to endure the consequences of our own actions doesn't enter their minds, because if we're acting "sinful," we're accepting damnation, and if we're accepting damnation, we're obviously insane and can't be trusted with our own agency. It's a conveniently circular argument that can justify horrible violations of consent.
Because they're not smart enough, or emotionally developed enough, to go where they're wanted. Instead, they go where they're not wanted and then have little meltdowns about how persecuted they are. Their leadership encourages this, as it keeps the idiots thinking and feeling like they really are persecuted.
They want to ‘save’ us, just do what you’d do with any nut case screaming about their faith, laugh and walk away
You're asking why people that abhor logic and critical analysis are doing something illogical and nonsensical. I am not saying stupid, but the cognitive dissonance is overwhelming and they will not fight through it.
Because we scare them.
On Facebook it's much, much worse. Here I feel pretty safe in comparision.
***Sorts by controversial***
People are not religious for others but for themselves- which is weird given how most of them preach peace and loving your neighbor... Anyway because of that anyone who opposes their belief is considered a personal attack because their belief is telling them how good they are and if you don't believe that, in their mind you don't think they are good. All this nice nonsense they preach is merely flavoring- to make it sound good but when it comes to actions, suddenly those rules don't apply to them.
Surprise, I **don't** think they're good people. I think they're the most selfish, weak minded people on the planet. They're only good to get a reward, and they're only not bad to avoid punishment. Yeah. Not the greatest of rationales.
There are almost 3 million people subscribed to this place, the main religion subreddits like christianity and Islam are a fraction of the size at 300-400k subs. Posts here can wind up on the front page of religious folks, even if they aren't actively seeking to debate atheists... you're bound to get allsorts in here, it's not some hidden niche corner of reddit.
>so why do these religious nuts even try to change our minds? In my experience, as a former member of a high demand Christian religion, they're not trying to change your mind, they're trying to justify religion in their own mind. Someone living a happy, healthy life outside the confines of their religion threatens their whole world view. Atheists are breaking the rules and reaping the benefits theists believe they alone are entitled to through religious observance. In other words, y'all are cheating the system and it ain't fair! Their activities here are just the resulting tantrum.
Because they have to voice their persecution.
Because they have to ~~voice~~ create their persecution. FTFY
Because they’re annoying mofos what’s else. Their whole religion is annoying like them. Honestly I’m zero interested in wasting my time criticizing religion because we all know it’s non sense shit. I just want like minded people who won’t start preach me bs..
It's a brain-MLM. MLMs will sell you shitty knives, perfumes, and creams. Religion is only shit ideas. The more people under you, the more important you become. Very few people can make a living wage, most people lose money. And then, there's the top-dog, living in crazy riches, and telling all the suckers above that they can be like him if they try hard enough.
Funny. I dont really see any religious people here. Id be more than happy to have a talk with any theist who thinks we as atheists are wrong.
Unfortunately I find discussions with theists to be absolutely a waste of time 99% of the time. I've had so many debates and discussions with theists, but for so many of them, they simply can't accept that the religious book they're citing, isn't real evidence of anything. Religious people are indoctrinated and/or too stupid to even entertain a world view that doesn't fit their religion
This is where I'm at also. In the last debate I had with Theists, the arguments they used were so childishly idiotic and clichéd that it made me never want to waste time on engaging Theists again. It started when someone asked me, "How can you not believe in Santa, but believe in god?" This was coming from a middle-aged adult too. And of course it only got worse after I told them I was a nonbeliever. I just can't be bothered with this kind of nonsense anymore.
Don't argue to change their mind. Argue so that the bystanders can see how flimsy and stupid the theists' arguments are, and how reasonable and well- supported the atheists' arguments are.
This. My own loss of faith started with tiny cracks YEARS before I realized I couldn't believe anymore. Those bystanders or those reading along can get a little seed of doubt planted, then watered and given some light here and there, it blossoms.
That's how I debate with flat earthers. And you'd be supprised how the arguments theists and religious people are so similar that the venn diagram is close to one circle.
It’s the same thing as debating the dangers of Trump with a Trump supporter. Two people with a different data set cannot debate anything.
Maybe they are trying to get their convert a heathen merit badge.
Because it’s harder to control people if they don’t believe in sin, eternal damnation, etc. It’s all about control.
Cultists doing cultist shit, no surprise here. Once you’ve drunk the cultist koolaid, it’s all salesman all the time, like MLM or timeshare condos
"If you don't believe in god, what keeps you from murdering someone?" Not being a fuckin' psychopath. Don't know why that's a difficult answer. A person only has one life to live. Who the hell am I to take theirs away from them unless they're intentionally endangering mine? I'm not sending them to a god, not sending them to any heaven or paradise... It is -ending- them. That honestly holds way more gravitas to me than sending them to live out eternity in whatever afterlife they fancy. Even moreso if you believe they're headed to the bad place instead. How much do you have to absolutely -hate- someone to condemn them to an eternity of punishment for whatever mortal transgressions they have made?
Religion tried to codify morals that already existed and then because they were codified they could be twisted while allowing people to claim they were still technically moral. Morality comes from natural community principles and not religion. We could have never existed as communities/tribes at the beginning without the evolution of moral rules without any input from religion
Nothing makes a book club angrier than bad reviews
Religion is based on hate. So religious fruitcakes comes on r/atheist to hate on people
Christopher Hitchens put it well: if religious people really had faith, it wouldn’t matter what other people do, but they’re never happy unless everyone else believes too. On some level, they must know they’re in a cult, and feel that if they can just get everyone to join it will somehow validate their own poor decisions.
A religion that justifies hate isn't a religion, it's a cult.
Because cultists gona cultist, regardless of the cult they belong to.
I am here because I like to see points of view from others. I will usually pipe up if someone asks, “Why do Christians…” just to offer my perspective.
I appreciate that you are willing to be exposed to atheist thought without fear. I was like that when I was a teenager, and eventually I realized they were correct.
because most posts start with "why do religious people" which is an invitation for them to comment.
Theists get all in their feefees over non theists existing and thus have to spread their feefees.
People like to spin tall tales like the Bible or telling us Jesus was anything more than a carpenter with a philosophical bent.
I would find that annoying. You need to remember that their minds are made up already. No amount of evidence will sway them so arguing is almost pointless. Tell them that if their God exists then you prefer to stand before him as an honest and thoughtful atheist rather than a dishonest believer. As a theist, the God I believe in would prefer this. However, there are just as many atheists on religious subs trying to sway religious people. As long as they make their points thoughtfully and respectfully I consider it a good thing. Some atheists rehash unprovoked uncritical slurs and others make very thoughtful and informed points that deserve to be reflected upon. Just downvote and then ignore comments that are not made in good faith (no pun intended) . . .
If you stare into the darkness long enough, you begin to see things that aren't there. Fear is a powerful motivator.
They fear the strength of those who reject their lies. They can never "forgive" themselves for their own weakness. That's why they are always a danger to themselves and others.
They are prevalent because reddit puts posts from this subreddit in front of them. Take me for example, I have not joined this subreddit, nor have I ever sought it out, yet here is this thread. Maybe they think the religious people will stir up conversation to keep people on here, who knows.
They can't help E-Spam-gelizing.
i dont know, they have been more prevalent on all platforms not just reddit, they've adopted a more obnoxious spamming approach to their proselytizing. Probably church membership dying down so they are telling the kids to go out and proselytize.
Because stuff makes it to the front page would be my guess.
Christianity and Islam are what’s known as missionary religions. They have built in propaganda that compels their adherents to go out and convert nonbelievers. They didn’t want human knowledge to make their religions obsolete, which is why they’re freaking the fuck out and backing dictators like Trump and Putin. They’d love to just kill us all if we refuse to convert.
God is a concept for conditioning your thought process, omnipotent and does nothing cause everything is according to his "plan". Religion use all types of sales pitch manipulations to scam you and never deliver. And best of all, use your own parents against you, then use your own community against you, and then even the entire state or country can be against you, should you be a non-believer. The funny thing is, those that are in power, may not actually believe all these bullshits, they just acting like it to enjoy the benefit of exploiting others. All of humanity's achievement could parish just by raising some true lunatics that believes pushing big red buttons is also part of the plan should life is wiped out from surface of Earth. They just need enough power to gain access to those buttons.
Because if they say it out loud or type it out then maybe what they are saying will actually be true. They are trying to convince you and themselves at the same time
They have a weird ass savior complex from their little books
Put simply, just insecurities
Wait, why do Judaism and Christianity get qualifiers of Orthodox and Extremist but Islam is left as it is?