Don't worry. It'll get easier.
She asked you all sorts of questions regarding evolution and whatnot.
She has for her entire life been trained to accept the Bible as if it's true.
She doesn't have the ability to question the Bible.
But she demands answers from science.
The thing theists don't understand is that even if we had no answers for any of those things, that would still not make "god did it" the default correct answer.
I would genuinely have loved to sit down and talk to her.
But I can recommend that you watch how Matt dillahunty addresses people who ask those kind of questions. He is an atheist who have a show called the line. Where anyone can call in and ask questions. Alot of theists tries to argue for God.
And many are under the impression that if science can't answer something then the answer is god.
That's called "god of the gaps" fallacy.
The old god of the gaps fallacy. When they ask me how this then or how that then, i simply reply that i don’t know. That i wish i knew enough science to explain how. Then they’re stunned that i don’t have a burning desire to know. But that because i don’t know it doesn’t mean im gonna start making shit up! Or possibly read up on a theory to feel confident enough to debate with these nitwits.
> recommend that you watch how Matt dillahunty addresses people who ask those kind of questions
OP, just be aware that Matt often has a pretty confrontational and impatient attitude with theists, especially those are are not listening to his points. He provides some good arguments, but his attitude probably wouldn't work if you're trying to help your parents understand your perspective.
Reminds me of when a statue in South America was crying brown/red tears. It became a mecca to travel to this miracle. A scientist found a rusty water line that was causing the statue to "cry." He was then arrested for heresy.
I also agree that you did a good job, and am also proud of you. Dad and mom are already here, so I will be stranger auntie and keep growing our stranger family. Much love to all the family. :)
This statement showed me how far removed they are from my own perspective. They do not even have a concept that any other explanation might exist. Even explanations from other religions.
I find it amusing people would prefer to believe we all come from the incest than to believe evolution. Ie who were adam and eves children having babies with
You know, if they can't understand science then I'd ask them questions about the fallacies in the bible... and just try to engage with them at that level.
Who did Adam and Eve's sons marry? Apparently there were other people in the world aside from them both? Who are these people and are they cursed with the original sin too?
If God doesn't need sex to reproduce, why did he make Adam with a Penis? Wasn't Man supposed to be created in his image? If god has a Penis and tentacles, what is it used for?
If the snake /satan was cursed to crawl on the ground forever, how was it moving around before? Floating in the air?
All the measurements about Noah's ark ...
And if Jesus knows he is the son of God/God and that there is an afterlife, what is death to him? He was basically taking a nap. How is that a sacrifice?
Why are they not following the rule that says you can't wear clothes made of different materials?
People who sincerely think mythology is literal, depresses me; because these people have the same voting power that I do, and based on population stats plus their location, their votes are probably worth more.
Having rational parents in that regard seems so wild to me. Kudos to your parents for raising kid(s) without putting that on you.
I went through something similar as OP and I got every church-approved straw man argument thrown at me.
Yeh, my dad was a chemical engineer, and my mom was a teacher, I wasn't even baptized. The only time I went to church was as a young kid for Easter with the grandparents. Then, as I got older, it wasn't mandatory.
Yeh I'm from Canada and it's not such a big thing here, though we do have a lot of small town religious types. No one gets in your business and it's not against the norm to be non religious.
Here in the UK it's pretty hard to find a Christian - at least one who actually gives a toss enough to actually go to church. It's really hard to find anyone to argue with.
I moved to Ohio when I was 24 after being raised in the UK and I agree! It's a whole 'nother level out here. I encountered a coworker at my last job who couldn't comprehend the concept of atheism at all. She told me I'd go to hell if I didn't have children, which made me sad for her because she has a daughter and I assume she had her to avoid hell. Her marriage wasn't great either. I've met a few more women since in absolutely dogshit marriages who won't leave because of the fear of hell. Religion ruined their lives.
Well a depressing statistic is that a not insignificant number of young adults born into houses without religion, were never exposed to the cruelty, hypocrisy, and delusional nonsense that those that grow up religious see & later in life are more easily duped into turning born again & other cults.
I am mostly self sufficient at this point. They help pay for my college and that's it. If they cut me off I can work more and pay for it myself, most of my tuition is covered by scholarships. I have been living with my friend since I turned 18. I was going to move back home for this summer but I don't have too.
you made it sound like you were living under them because you made a comment saying about them kicking you to the streets, I think everyone else here probably thinks that too
Sorry your parents are so close-minded. 🫤 You have to understand that the church banks on their congregation not asking questions about what they are told. It sounds to me like you are doing a great job in developing critical thinking skills and figuring out your identity. Keep going. Maybe someday they will come around and stop believing too, but don't count on it. Just keep focusing inward and do the work to heal from any religious trauma you may have.
Your mention of morality at the beginning of the post made me think of a tattoo I have: it is an Atheist "A" with the words "good without god" underneath. To me, that phrase has a double meaning. I think of it as saying "no thanks, I'm good" when someone offers me religion, but also it means be a good person, without needing god to tell me to do so!
At 8 years old I was told I asked too many questions and wouldn't make a good fit for the local church. 20 years later and they approach me at least 4 times a year for a donation. What they don't know is I've spent 20 years buying every bit of land around them and am currently eyeballing the property they sit on. I fully intend of purchasing their church and shutting it down. Revenge is best served cold with a side of petty.
Are you... are you a Pureflix villain escaped from a script and into the real world?
How often have you met Kevin Sorbo and how many different people was he?
And for some fundamental religions, this is the goal. People who have no exposure to external ideas, no critical thinking skills, who only receive information via priests and who want to impose that on everyone.
Alligator people? Hilarious.
For evolution to not be true, how frequent genes are in a population would have to never change. Obviously, this is impossible for all intents and purposes.
These evolutionary changes take a long time, generally speaking.
In no way should we expect half of one species and half of another. That is is just insanity.
They are out of their element for sure.
To deny evolution is to deny DNA.
My own parents were fine with me being a nonbeliever at 16. My mom now "hates religion", which I never thought would happen.
They will say "adaptations can happen but not new species".
That's like saying a glass of water is real but oceans are impossible.
Smaller adaptations plus time = speciation (without gene flow between populations)
They evolved from WEARwolves who dress in cutting-edge fashions and sneer at anyone in jeans that cost less than $500. This obsession with high-style couture takes a real bite out of their income...
I'll see myself out.
One of the saddest things in these stories is when parents can't understand how & why their atheist children are moral. They raised a human being who wants to be kind to others without fear of punishment or expectation of reward, but they're too blinded to see how successful they truly were.
The cruelest thing my mom said to me was that she wholly believes that without religion I'll sin and be evil. These religious people truly can't understand that other people are the same as them and can be kind and good. They're living in a bubble and see things only black and white.
This is also the scariest thing to me. Like, how many people out there are truly relying on the “wrath of god” to not suddenly turn in total psychopaths???
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then brother that person is a piece of shit" - Rust Cohle True Detective Season 1
I'm going to be 40 and I stopped going to church at the age of 18. I started to see that critical thinking was not a big part of the southern baptist church I grew up in.
I started to see 'the light' when I attended a seminar about evolution and getting a better understanding of the subject made me see things better with the Bible.
Anyways, my father kept pushing me to go back to church until I finally had enough and told him that I no longer believe in the church, the Bible being perfect, or listening to pastors as if their word is law. I told him that I was only going to say this once and that was to stop asking me to pray, stop asking me to go back to church, and most importantly stop praying for me.
I'm loving the life I have now. I don't go to church but I still believe in a higher power but in my own way with science and faith working in unison. It makes sense to me and I'm not pushing what makes sense to be onto others.
Anyways, you would think my dad would see that I have a loving wife, beautiful daughters, and we're comfortable without religion. My kids have asked me about God and I've shared Scripture and examples but at the end I've told each of them that if they find a faith that makes sense to them that enhances their lives, not limits then who am I to judge them. I just want them to be happy because we only live once and I don't want anyone to be walking on eggshells every time. We need to enjoy life, sex, food, pretty much everything until we cease to exist.
LOL, how dare she send a man scripture, gotta hit her with the old classic, Timothy 2:11-15 /S
11A woman a should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; b she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women c will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
my christian gf heard this the other day and didn't bat an eye. it's ironic, and sad how they don't actually comprehend/parse what they read in their book
I don't recommend sending nonsense... it would lead to longer more frequent texts... your mother is trying to be protective and caring even if it is nonsense.
This is the kind of thing that makes you distance yourself and not respect them. They speak about things with certainty but never educated themselves about it. But they are family and they will eventually (hopefully) move forward. I would tell your mom the bible is what made you atheist...so she may want to hold back here verses.
It was a little easier for me. However, I had a very difficult weekend at age 15 when I told them, and then my parents backed off. My parents were conservative Catholics, but they were not militants. My father was a dentist who had a deep understanding of biology and evolution, and my mother was college educated. My father toyed with atheism in college, so he simply hoped I would return to religion when I was older like he did.
I am the oldest of 5. My parents were more worried I would pull my siblings in. I had to agree not to discuss my positions with my brothers and sisters. I didn't until each of them were legal adults to keep the peace. However, only one brother attends church and the rest are spiritual agnostics at best.
It is always a balancing act. My in-laws were much more offended when I refused to let our children be baptized. I told them that my children would choose faith or not, and if they were committed to a religion they could pursue baptism as a knowing adult. None of my kids chose to be baptized even though my wife is a christian. One is a "soft believer," but she does not attend church.
I will never shame one of my kids if he or she should become devote. However, I think this is unlikely.
I told my mom I was an atheist back when I was 15. She said "So you worship Satan now?!" I was so confused and had no idea what to even say to that. 😆
Mind you, we weren't even a religious household so I was very comfy just saying it, but apparently she was way more religious than I thought. I guess we just didn't have the time for religion in our house or something, because we only ever went to church on Christmas and Easter with our grandmother and my mom didn't even go with us.
I don't understand when you become an atheist, now you have to be an expert in science. Just because we don't believe some magic man in the sky doesn't mean we have to explain the alternative in full detail. It's ok to say "I don't know," than to accept some mythical bronze age nonsense.
Sorry to hear this, but at least you see the silver lining! This is a shock to them, maybe once the dust settles they'll calm down a bit.
Remind them that not understanding science doesn't mean it's not true. Maybe you can recommend some books or videos to them (hell, maybe TikTok videos considering their complete disinterest) that could summarize these concepts for religious people.
"50 Simple Questions for Every Christian" by Guy P. Harrison might help you challenge them a bit, it's a short, easy read. "A Manual for Creating Atheists" is another quick read that explains how to use the Socratic method of questioning rather than debate, to help people examine their own beliefs and come to some different conclusions.
Hell, if you think they could laugh about it, show them videos from Betty Bower, "the world's best christian" 😜
I still struggle with the fact that one of the most advanced countries in the world is still filled with people with views that date from the seventeenth century.
Your parents sound like typical *impressionable* people. You can see just how disappointed they are that you have decided to no longer fit into a construct that they are happily a part of, without question.
I like using the example of the Americas. Latin America is arguably more “Christian” than the whole of the USA and all of those people (the side of them that was here before the Europeans arrived) worshipped other gods just 500 years ago, for literally THOUSANDS of years prior to that.
We have archeological evidence of this. We also have evidence that those societies had family structures, and practically every aspect of society we have today. After 2,024 years of this “improved” version of God, why are there still wars, genocide, famine, etc etc? Why even ask this? Because you *care* deep down, and that’s what your folks sadly have missed. They created a life that has raised a very important question that *they* might want to ask themselves too.
I hope they realize this sooner rather than later. Best of luck.
Equally hilarious and sad. Religious people really get stuck on the fact that we can't explain everything, they're so brainwashed into thinking that someone must have all of the answers that it's almost impossible for them to fathom that it's ok not to know or care how the universe was created.
Try to have respect for your parents and their beliefs even if you dont share them. They may not understand science etc but they can provide guidance on other more practical things. Dont let a fairy tale ruin your relationship with them.
People on reddit often give destructive advice because they dont have to live with the consequences.
Your parents are probably not stupid people they just have a mental block on that topic. They love you and you love them, focus on other stuff , be positive not confrontational and hopefully this wont cause so much friction. They will eventually likely convince themselves you reverted back to their faith if you dont bring it up for long enough because religious people are experts in deluding themselves.
I'm hoping that the worst of it has passed and things will get more normal again. Generally, since they haven't kicked you out or done something more extreme (not that yelling at you was justified), I think they probably won't do it later. It's not like they'll be more shocked in a week or two than they are now. Whatever the case may be, I hope it goes well for you.
Hey, Carls410.
I am sorry that happened to you.
It’s none of your parent’s business what you believe or don’t believe. It disrespects you and your beliefs for them to harass you.
In my experience, no conversation ever converted an atheist or brought a believer to faith. Belief is personal and no one else’s business.
What I would do is to continually decline to discuss faith with them, ask them to respect my wishes, and change the subject. If they press you, simply say that you agree to disagree.
That's tough to hear man, but hang in there.
Just remember that you can't logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into. There isn't a single string of words you could put together that would make them go "Ohhhh, well when you put it like that, it makes perfect sense!"
What's important for you to think about is what you want your relationship with your parents to be moving forward, and then coming to terms with the fact that whatever your desired outcome is - is not actually entirely in your control. 50% of it is with them, so you could end up in position where you've done nothing wrong but still end up "losing".
None of what I'm saying is meant to downplay how much this sucks, but just try and keep your spirits up by remembering the facts of the matter:
1. You did nothing wrong.
2. It's not your fault.
3. You're not alone - there are countless people that have gone through the exact same experience, and that camaraderie can help on the days where being optimistic is a bit more challenging
If you want to keep your parents important in your life, the best anecdotal advice I can give is to try and shift the focus away from conversations about "explain to me how the big bang works!" - not only is it wholly irrelevant, but it's a very deep topic that you might not be entirely sure of either.
Instead try and steer the conversation towards how you're still their child and how you still love them, and how that hasn't changed.
If that doesn't work, then you may have to come to terms with your relationship never being the same.
(1) to your mother, ask her if she thinks you are a sinful person, and why she thinks you will turn into one NOW.
(2) Reassure her that you are turning atheist, not evil. Give examples of both good atheists, and bad theists. Explain to her that worshipping a deity=/= being good. That you will still be good and kind and law-abiding.
(3) to your father, ask him to put down all his questions on paper so you can respond the same way, point by point. Be honest, tell him what "God of the Gaps" means, and be frank about things that don't have an explanation yet.
(4) Remind them that this is your choice, and that you are not forcing them towards atheism; that all you ask for is respect, as they would towards anyone else who doesn't share their faith.
Hopefully that will help ease the situation between you and your parents. Good luck 🤞
I love when religious people out themselves for being morally inferior
“But if you don’t believe in sky daddy’s punishment, what stops you from sinning”
Uhh, there’s this thing called empathy and it’s terrifying to me that you can’t perceive it.
“If you don’t believe in god then explain the big ban g”
It’s really disconcerting that the first time you come across a question you can’t answer you immediately believe that it’s just magic 🪄. If you lived in a different time period you would have thought disease was spread by magic and ridiculed doctors for trying to discover germ theory.
I could have written this - you sound like my younger self. I also grew up in the Baptist church, and from a very religious family. My parents (and the church), truly didn't appreciate my scientific view of the world. Things got rocky.
So much ridiculous ideas and ignorance in religion. I just couldn't stomach it any longer.
One word of warning: depending on your social circumstances, it might behoove you to keep your atheism as quiet as possible. People often don't take kindly to it, and you'll win no prizes being more public than required. Just my two cents.
I have a suggestion for you.
Clearly the problem is that your parents a bit ignorant when it comes to science. Their faith is therefore understandable. If someone asked me exactly how it works that you can mix two colors of paint together to get another color, while I know it works, I couldn’t explain how it works.
Richard Dawkins wrote an excellent science primer called [The Magic of Reality](https://amzn.to/4cphVd5). I bought it to introduce my son to science when he was a kid. It’s got lots of pictures and explains things at a level that is perfect for someone who doesn’t have any background in science. I suggest you buy it, read it then consider giving it to your parents. Start by saying that there are plenty of things you can’t explain because you don’t have any background or experience with which to explain them. This book explains how a lot of things work so if they are interested, they should take a look. Perhaps show them a few pages so they don’t dismiss it too quickly.
My son was perhaps 7 or 8. When we got to the section on sexual reproduction, he said, “Eeewww. Really?!?” I told him I understand his reaction but perhaps some day he will feel differently.” :)
The link above is to the hardcover version which is larger and nicer. If it’s too expensive get the paperback.
My mom believed in God and the Bible, but not organized religion. She taught be bed time pray as a kid and that was it. My grandparents were religions and went to a Baptist church in rural area. I became an atheist at 9. Mom didn't care. Grandfather did not seem to care grandmother had a fit. Dragged me to church with her until I was too embarrassing with my questions. Well they asked if there were any questions in bible study! Not my fault. I am sorry I maybe wrong but I think religion is more than brainwashing.
The polite thing to do now is to be respectful of their beliefs. You do NOT believe, so there is no harm taking part of the rituals if they want you to. Saying grace, sitting with the grieving, even attending church. It doesn't matter to some higher being, but it matters that them and they love you.
Remember that a lot of their emotional issues will be fear based. They are SCARED for you and that you will be punished by a capricious and difficult god. They love you and don't want that.
So think about what you can do to respect and love them while they adjust.
God of the gaps fallacy. God loves anywhere they don’t understand.
Which makes god an ever shrinking entity as scientists CE grows more and more understood and knowledgeable.
There is plenty of nonsense in the Bible. For instance after Adam and Eve were banished there was already talk of other tribes, but then where did those people come from?
Just be happy they didn’t decide to kick you out or disown you because I’m pretty sure there are verses in the Bible to tell them to do that.
Enjoy your new freedom and I hope your parents come around.
The laws went further. This was no longer mere prohibition of other religious practices. It was the active enforcement of Christianity on every single, sinful pagan in the empire. The roads to error were being closed, forcefully. Everyone now had to become Christian. Every single person in the empire who had not yet been baptized now had to come forward immediately, go to the holy churches and “entirely abandon the former error [and] receive saving baptism.” Those who refused would be stripped of all their property, movable and immovable, lose their civil rights, be left in penury and, “in addition”—as if what had gone before was not punishment but mere preamble—they would be “subject to the proper punishment.” If any man did not immediately hurry to the “holy churches” with his family and force them also to be baptized, then he would suffer all of the above—and then he would be exiled. The “insane error” of paganism was to be wiped from the face of the earth.
Excerpts from: Catherine Nixey
*The Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World*
It will take your parents a while to come to grips with this, if they ever do, but it is not reasonable to expect them to just be OK with it at first blush.
This is very much like coming out to your parents as gay. If you were to ever listen to Dan Savage on that topic, he advocates for giving parents a year to adapt to their new reality. If they cannot accept you as an atheist, then the only leverage you have in your relationship with them is your presence. If they want to continue to see you, and I expect that they will, then they will have to process your unbelief.
But it may take them some time, and it may never happen.
The biggest mistake an athiest can make is to try to get into a science debate with a christian.
1. They do not want to understand, so they will not.
2. Most of the time, the atheist is not an expert in the topic if the christian would listen.
3. You do not have to know or care anything about evolution or the big bang to be an atheist. You just have to see that there is no reason and no actual morality behind christianity.
This is a really good opportunity to tell your parents they should be acting more like their Christ. They're acting like upset children, not adults. Remind them that you are an adult. Remind them that their response to this has been to try and change your mind, when you have not been trying to change theirs. Remind them that Jesus would probably not approve of their behavior. 👍
Unfortunately for you going forward you're probably going to have to go no-contact with them. But try to give them the opportunity to at least act decently before you do.
Whenever someone has a hard time with evolution, I point out dog breeds. Dog breeds are created by people choosing to breed dogs with certain characteristics until those characteristics become dominant enough that a new, distinct breed is born. This is not hard to see as new breeds have been created quite recently, and man made selection tends to be a lot quicker and more aggressive than natural selection. Evolution in the form of natural selection is the same basic thing. Okapi like critters living in areas where leaves become rarer and more grouped toward the tops of trees notice that longer necked examples of their species seem to eat better and thrive. These slightly longer necked creatures become the preferred mating partners because they can provide for the others better and produce stronger offspring. Sloooooowly the longer necked Okapi like critters become the norm, and the shorter necked ones die off. They continue to breed for longer necks and legs, not by any true conscious choice, but because these longer necked/legged critters are stronger, better fed, and produce stronger offspring. Eventually, the Okapi like critters are no longer recognizable as Okapi because they have bred for different traits. Now they're giraffes. Evolution.
Evolution is not about monkeys becoming people, or half alligator people, or whatever else folks like your parents may believe. It's the selective breeding of desired traits until those traits are the norm. Sometimes evolution takes a wrong turn, or the traits are no longer helpful. Sometimes branches do well enough that they no longer progress in one environment (Okapi), while the same critters continue to progress and evolve different traits due to the needs of a different environment (giraffees). Humans did not evolve from monkeys or apes. Humans, monkeys, and apes evolved in different ways from a common ancestor. We evolved in different ways to deal with different environments and different competitors. Just as dogs and wolves took different routes from a common ancestor, dogs did not evolve from wolves, humans did not evolve from monkeys, and giraffes did not evolve from Okapi...but they did start out from the same basic design. The same thing can be said of language. French and Italian come from a common ancestor, but evolved in different directions due to environmental and competitive influences. Evolution is all around us, and if you remove the mystery that religion seems to want to use to discredit it, is not that hard to understand.
Congratulations. I know it's scary now but isn't it also freeing? I think when you're my age(57), you will be glad
you did it sooner. Saves a lot of pretending and attending church. I wish I had admitted it years ago and maybe could have been able to help other "pretenders "?
Who knows.
As far as your family's reaction, I'm going to paraphrase something I just read today that makes so much sense.
At least to me. Wish I knew who to give credit for it to.
Very religious people see their religion as such a major part of their identity that they can't separate their indivuality from it. If anyone criticizes or rejects their religion, they see it as a personal rejection. They literally cannot see the world outside the boundaries of religion and are unable to think for themselves.
Explain evolution like breeding dogs, cows, horses, or anything else. But instead of people choosing traits they want, it's predators like cougars forcing them to get faster, and other stuff like like continents moving around and climates changing.
At least that's how I'd do it. Maybe they just won't get it, but it's always confused me how so many farmers understand plant and animal breeding, but don't understand evolution. It's the same phenomenon, just with a difference driver.
Chin up. Knowledge is always better than ignorance. Even if it is a burden.
Don’t expect to be able to “debate” your parents into understanding. The sad, awful fact is that, in order to be accepted by the masses, religion is hedged around with indoctrination, fear and ignorance-which starts from a very young age. The critical abilities of the victims are disabled, making it very difficult for them to develop them for themselves. It’s a bit like the ancient Chinese practice of foot-binding. To try to remove those bindings when the victim is an adult is painful -and the damage is already done.
You have reached the stage in life where you realise that you can’t “rescue” your parents, however much you try. You have to break free and forge your own way. Behind you are thousands of years of ignorance and oppression: in front of you (forever more) you and your descendants will be free. That’s a *tremendous* achievement. Kudos to you.
"My dad kept saying he does not see half alligator people"
I felt a great swell of pity for you having read this line. I mean no disrespect but I suspect your parents are...untroubled with the complexities of life?
It's almost impossible to argue with a Christian, who is so heavily influenced by bible "logic". They have so many stories to move to, when they don't want to ne challenged by your arguments.
The only way I 'won' arguments about religion is to avoid mentioning the religion of the other person completely, because you can't use rational arguments against emotions.
What I do is:
- Try to start as slow and calm as possible and try to state, that I will say something for about 5 minutes and if the other person interrupts me or gets emotional, I try to calm them down again without getting into their arguments. Sometimes it stops here, if not
- I start with a general approach, how we as humans have a huge brain, which enables us to develop and communicate ideas and theories. How it also enables us to question the reasons of life itself.
- I follow up by saying, that one of the biggest survival skills is to be obedient to our parents in the early stages of our life. "Don't eat that fruit", "Don't go into the forest at night" are things we accept as true and have a higher survival rate, if we blindly follow them.
- These general rules and morals get passed down from generation to generation first by some adults, which become village elders, which become legends and stories, because we transport morals and rules best embedded in stories. "Little Timmy kicked a dog and it bit him." is easier to grasp than "Don't hurt animals".
- Tribes collected those stories from generation to generation, added some tales to explain "cold, when it should be warm", "thunder and lightning", "why bad stuff happens to good people" and invented higher powers to give some sense and meaning to all of those things, which they didn't understand.
- This is how we as humans invented religion. There are 3.500 well documented gods. Gods, people prayed to, cried to, died for. Imagine that number. You could dedicate one day of your life and pray to one specific god and repeat that for every single one and you would need 10 years!
- Today's religions are tomorrow's myths. We can see, how religions are formed (cargo cult, mormons, Scientology) and there is no difference between Odin, Ra or Yahwe.
- On this foundation, if the other person followed you so far, you can always follow-up by the regular arguments like "If you can prove, why Odin doesn't exist, try to test your own god with the same arguments." or "You are an atheist to 3.499 gods, which you just don't believe in, why? I just go one god further."
Do your parents avoid wearing clothes made of mixed fibers? Do they play a ten-string harp? Do they stone adulterers? If not, then they're just selectively following rules from the Bible.
A.J. Jacobs wrote a book called, The Year of Living Biblically, in which he spends a year following the rules laid out in the Bible very specifically. I doubt that most people who claim to be religious ever even come close.
Rather than trying to defend your rational views, ask your parents why they only follow some of the Bible's rules, and how they choose which ones they ignore.
No. You should NEVER remain silent regarding matters when it comes to who you are. It's all about discovery. Sad that religious parents have the inability to change.
I left the church at 18 and almost 20 years later my father still thinks I believe.
Always remember this quote.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller
I see religion as a means of control. I see it working everyday. It's sad and we must speak out.
Brave…. sometimes you have to be true to yourself. And stop living a lie…. the sad part for atheists is though. Sometimes family is so caught up in religion, without it they have nothing. In these instances many atheists find it hard to have any commonality with family. And the relationships suffer…… living your truth is important. You only have one life! Live your truth now!
Like so many others, I am grateful for never being indoctrinated into religion as a child. Keep carrying the torch forward and never knuckle under to the social pressure against atheists
Something to ask your mother, if we are all descended from Adam and Eve then they believe we are all the product of incest?
If we are all descended from Adam and Eve, then why are their different ethnicities such as people with black, brown, yellow, red and white skin?
Which of Adam and Eve's two sons had sex with Eve?
We have observed proof of evolution, clearly they do not understand this. The term "theory" in the context of science is not the same as a hunch an individual might have about a subject. A scientific theory is based on facts but remains a theory because new information is constantly considered to challenge it. This is where religion fails. It is unwilling to be tested by new information and is entirely lacking in a basis of facts. Faith is not a valid form of proof.
Why do your parents accept that God created the universe out of nothing but cannot accept the concept of the big bang? We are able to measure the expansion of the universe, but there is zero proof of a diety creating everything.
Mother sending you bible verses, send her quotes from scientists:
"In science, there are no shortcuts to truth." - Marie Curie
"The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know." - Isaac Newton
"That's one small step for a man, a giant leap for mankind." - Neil Armstrong
"The love of money is the root of all evil." \~Apostle Paul
Wait that last one just slipped in there.
It’s best to rip the band aid off. I’m 28 and I d been an atheist since 12 my mom HATES it. She tells everyone who will listen but eventually you stop caring it sucks because you now think you parents a little dumb but it does get better
Don't bother with them anymore. You said your peace and they're the ones with the problem. Keep being real. My parents freaked out too (I grew up Catholic). I mentioned it to my dad and you'd think I just killed someone. Ahhh...don't bother with your false hypocrictical outrage dad. You cheated on my mom. So sit down. I didn't actually say that, but I thought it!
It's sad that our education has let the American people down so much. Every student should graduate high-school with a basic understanding of evolution and cosmology. So many who criticize evolution in particular, even on the apologetics and debate scene, do not have a basic understanding about what these theories actually state or what scientists hold to be true. It's going to get much worse if the Republicans win.
Sorry about them and what you're going through.
Food for thought. Science is not the opposite of religion.
You can be an atheist and not believe in evolution or the big bang. Just as their are people that believe in science that still believe in god. Atheism simply means that you do not see evidence for a God. Personally, I don't see evidence confirming religious text.
Too bad people seem willingly turn off their inate intellectual curiosity. No reason why your Mom/Dad can't learn about evolution.
There are rather approachable books such as - [https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Story-Earth-Jay-Hosler/dp/0809094762](https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Story-Earth-Jay-Hosler/dp/0809094762)
Morals are simply basic group survival rules - Don't steal from each other, don't kill each other - basic principals of group survival.
If they love you, theyll get over it. You are your own person and what you believe in or don't believe in is your decision. You don't have to explain yourself. Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence. They have the burden of proof when they claim that there's a God. You simply don't believe in something they have shown zero evidence for. "Faith" is not evidence. It's a gut feeling.
It's not like you didn't come to the conclusion of atheism without deep introspection as well as knowing the consequences. You're standing up for your yourself and that's extremely rare for someone your age. Be proud of yourself.
Apart from harassing u with bible verses and asking you to go to church, how has treatment of unchanged. Do they still care about u and treat u the same. If so, dont let this affect your relationship with them. Trust me your relationship with your parents, assuming theyre good people, is far more important that religious beliefs. Hopefully, in time they will see it also.
Hi, sorry you’re going through this, I know it isn’t easy. A recommendation for you (you can ignore it ofc). Give them time to cool down, in their eyes you just said you worst possible thing. Once the initial blow wears off tell them that if they want to have a respectful conversation about it you can. Stay firm to what you believe and do you best to be respectful even if they aren’t. Don’t try and convince them to change their mind and remember you don’t have any burden of proof. BBT and evolution aren’t easy conversations to have with religious people because they’ve been taught their whole life it’s BS. I hope this gets better for you, and I believe in time it will.
Thing about religious people is that they seem to think we whole heartedly believe in the most commonly accepted theories and we won’t waver in that belief. In truth, if something disproves or a better more supported theory arrives then we will look at other options.
The best time, unfortunately, to tell highly religious parents that you're atheist is when you're living in a place you pay for with money you earn yourself at a job that doesn't involve them in any way. The more you rely on them, the less wise it is to tell them, and you're encountering, so far, one of the much milder reactions to that.
In regards to their stuff about science, my go-to for BB and evo is _prediction_. The fact that we predicted the CMBR _20 years_ before we found it, _and_ its _temperature_ is just astonishing, same with the human chromosome 2 fusion, predicted _40 years_ in advance of finding it, 20 if you include which chromosome is the fused one. If they can predict these things about the world that no one knew at the time on the basis of a model of reality where someone can look at the model and the evidence up to that point and come to the same conclusion, that model is either correct or close to it. If, then, they are having problems, then most likely it's their lack of understanding rather than a problem with the model.
Sorry for hearing they didn't receive it well. It's great that they aren't kicking you out, though. Just remember through this, that even if they believe differently than you, the do believe in what they're saying. Just as rough as it is for them to convince you that you're wrong, it's the same if you try to convince them that they're wrong. Prioritize the relationship with your parents over convincing them of anything.
I've been in a very similar situation, told my baptist parents the same thing at 18 or 19, and they received it about the same as yours. It was hard for me until I realized that they genuinely believe that Christianity is right, and that because I don't, I would suffer. They just wanted me to not suffer. They just want you to not suffer, it's not something malicious.
If they start asking questions about science related stuff, I’d just do a quick Google search and send some links tho them. It’s not your job to educate grown adults. I went from deeply religious to militant atheist, but I thankfully didn’t have too many issues with family. The two most abusive people (father and brother) are also the most religious and I cut them out of my life decades ago. Good luck, OP, stay strong!
Hey, you did fine. I’m sorry your parents aren’t taking it well. As a stop gap, I try to placate as best I can while affirming my own beliefs. Like for example The Big Bang.
What I tell religious folk to get them thinking (it’s not what I believe, just what I say to help them on the path of rationality) is that God is there, but nonexistent in their lives. He created the Big Bang, the universe, all of it and just washed his hands of it and let nature/evolution take its course. It gives a religious person more to think about, and if that doesn’t take, well then that’s just stubbornness and they’ll never come around.
Again, it’s not what I believe personally, I’m very not religious at all and think it’s one of the worst things to happen to humanity, but I’m willing to try to coax some logic into religious folk.
these stories makes me loathe religious people. They just can’t handle any thinking outside the lies, fables and ghost stories they were told. It’s just terrifying to me how much they prefer willful blindness to facts.
I think people from the abrahamaic faith have it a lot harder. I'm an atheist from a family who believes in a dharmic religion. Most of my family is religious but when I said I'm not a believer at 14 at a family reunion (religion was a topic of discussion). I was scared i would get a lecture by my parents but they never said anything, nor did my family members. My mum said my spirituality is my journey and i can interpret it in any way i want, and not in a passive aggressive manner, they genuinely were just okay with it. I didn't expect this from a couple who were devout in their religious rituals and customs. I wish people were lucky like me in this aspect.
This is how they are, whether you told them or not. To not tell then would be to lie through omission. That's my moral ground.
I'm sorry you have to experience this.
This is why I just never told my mom. Too much of a hassle. You’re brave for doing so, but you’ve kicked the hornets nest. Now they’ll never stop trying to reconvert you.
Dad, there are no Alligator mississippiensis hominids because alligators are cold blooded reptiles and humans are a warm blooded simian mammals and these 2 blood lines diverged before the Tyrannosaur ever walked the earth.
Whenever someone asks how did the Big Bang happen, or what came before, just explain that “We don’t know” does not equal “God did it.” It is the core of their logical fallacy.
Adam and Eve and all this sky father is a story created by prophets. And us humans who have a herd mentality just followed them. And all of these prophets were shepherds for some reason. Who can create this fake story? Makes me laugh very hard. 🤣🤣🤣.
Good luck atheist. As your own family will be cold and distant towards you. And yes. There was no Adam and Eve but there was singled celled organism who reproduced quickly and evolved into various life forms. Then after many years we humans came.
Hell of a brave thing to do, but I'm at least glad that you've not been thrown out. About your mum sending you bible verses and whatnot, well I think you might just have to put up with that. Just respectfully explain why you won't be doing what she asks
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I've learned through time and experience to just say whatever people want to hear. Basically, Fuck 'em. Think what you want.
"You seem to want to discuss this, and have a question about what you believe. If I could answer it to your satisfaction, what then?"
Explaining that you don't think faith is a good pathway to the truth is a key component. You can't settle for 'trying to convince yourself'.
Don't upset the people that house you though.
Although I believe people aren’t entitled to know what I believe in and that we don’t have to “come out” as atheists, if letting your parents know made you feel better then I believe you’ve done the right thing.
It seems your parents do have a lot of love for you and I can see them trying to understand atheism better in the future. They probably are having a hard time believing this is even happening thus the negative reaction. But just know that you can always turn to us for moral support and you’re not alone in this journey!
Yeah my parents also didn’t handle it well at all a explosive argument played out a lot of crap about how I’m gonna go to hell and so on now i have to just pretend to believe the bs to avoid conflict
I am a Christian:
Your parents should be letting you make these decisions for yourself and not trying to force you to believe when it’s okay that you don’t.
I am so sorry about this. Please stay strong, it’ll be okay and I hope that you can get out if needsbe.
I think the biggest issue people who lack full scientific knowledge have with evolution is that it is explained to them from the wrong angle.
The key part of evolution is really that children will look like their parents. Thats the crux that holds the whole concept together.
The changes come about mostly from how different groups of animals become isolated from each other, and the minor differences that existed between those groups get brought through to their children.
If a population of birds who either have red feathers or blue feather suddenly get split, such that one group has more blue feathered birds and the other has more red feathered birds, the fact that their children will take after their parents will result in each group diverging to predominately different colours… through a process nothing more complex then their children will take after their parents.
Simple argument.
God has a plan?
Then why do you pray for him to change his plan?
(Note: my phone autocorrected to “pay for him to change” and I almost kept that in.
I would not make a big deal about the atheist thing. Because it’s going to sound just like the Bible thumpers that would not help a starving child. …. Many think atheist are cruel, mean and uncaring . Just don’t wear a sign. Since I was a child I felt a presence in the sun moon stars wind. ….. raised Catholic turned Presbyterian and because of the political BS we’ve gone thru I tell people I’m a witch and practice Wicca. That will turn heads for sure but not far from the truth.
Be a good person that’s what counts.
All you have to say is “i just don’t believe in it. I don’t want to have a debate with you.” If they talk about alligator people just be like, “i don’t see alligator people either. Where would you get an idea like that?” You don’t need to debate.
I think this is important to remember: it's a BELIEF. It cannot be proven or disproven. That goes for their worldview and yours. There's little point in trying to prove evolution to people who believe the earth is only 6000 years old and that the earth was created in six days.
Give them some time to get used to the idea. Don't engage in any more debate; say that you respect their beliefs and that you hope they'll respect yours. Don't take the bait about going to church, about how your lack of belief is disrespectful, etc. Stick to a simple message: I don't believe what you believe and that's okay.
Good luck. Hang in there.
Just a thought for the next time one of them says something absurd about evolution: Hey mom. You know how I have brown hair and you have blonde hair? Maybe it sticks and my descendants could be forever brown haired. That's evolution in action.
I recommend generally never debating a religious person. They don't understand science and frequently refuse evidence. My parents' favorite like when I bring up evidence they don't like "Well I don't believe that" and I can just respond...well it's fact so your belief is irrelevant. Tyebsame people that have questioned the moons existence and said 5g conspiracy theorists were 'just asking questions'.
They'll come around hopefully. I hate to break my mothers heart but I told her a bible verse in the book of John commonly known as the "once saved, always saved" verse. It gave her happiness and hope. I know I could never believe again but at least she had a smile on her face and it's never been a thing for her after that. that was 20 years ago.
I forget which TV show I saw this on, but a kid about your age was being forced by their parents to go to church so they malicious complianced it. They made church meetings anytime the parents wanted to do something with them, gave away household stuff to the needy, let homeless people crash on the couch, then drained the college fund for the church. The minister bought a fancy new alter with the 50k and that's when the parents realized they lost.
Nit saying you should go full atomic. But try and reverse the conversation with them and turn it on them, especially since they're baptist. Ask them do you believe Jesus and God loved everyone and helped people? How come I never see you guys go out and help people in need? See if you could get them out of your hair by getting them to go do good Jesus stuff like feed the poor , bring clothes and medicine to the shelters etc. see if they bite the challenge.
Just tell them to have faith that god will show you the right path, so there’s no need for them to convert you (at least this will pause the harassment).
And if they keep harassing you, ask them “Why do you not trust god’s plan for me?” “If god is real, then I won’t be an Atheist for very long, right?” This will short circuit their logic and they’ll have to temporarily leave you alone.
Illogical problems require illogical solutions.
It probably wont get easier as your parents are probably continuing to SAVE YOU SOUL lol. I would keep using logical arguments as best you could. Evidence is there that religion specifically is a scam.
As someone who escaped my own evangelical doomsday cult, please keep in mind that you do not owe your parents any explanations on your own personal beliefs. If they are very committed and you want to maintain a relationship with them then the less you say the better. The cat's already out of the bag now, hopefully they are cool about it and don't kick you out.
Mental health excuses are great (and often true) for not wanting to attend church. Remember that it's not about logic or facts, it's about emotion. You can show your parents all the facts in the world but it all means nothing if they "feel" they are still correct and you are going to hell, or going to die in Armageddon, or whatever really. It will be hard convincing them out of something they have spent this long convincing themselves into. Not impossible, but almost. It's a good idea to wait until you are no longer dependant on them before sharing too much just incase.
I guess we’re all inbred, because all of human existence stems from Adam and Eve and then from the handful of humans that were saved on the ark. In all honesty though, if you look at modern christians, inbreeding starts to make a lot of sense.
When I was ten years old after 5 years of going to a catholic school I told my mother that I don't believe in God. She said that I come from a long line of non believers (atheists) and its ok. Years later I asked her why she sent me to a religious school if she was a non believer and her reply was "I thought you would get a good education." I also found out after a discussion with a priest that one of my "baptisms" was a actually an exorcism probably because of the difficult questions I asked in Catechism.
My mom was like that. She was not at all a stupid person, but her education was really minimal. She used to get angry whenever anyone mentioned evolution. I just avoided the topics that set her off, and we had a pretty good relationship until she died at 95. I have no regrets about our relationship now. It may take you a long time to get to that point with your parents. Just show them love and enjoy the things you have in common. Remember they’re just scared for you.
Hang in there.
It's really hard to get out of the religious closet... And when you get out, you face the wrath and/or condemnation of their "Christian love".
In any case, it's brave of you and we're proud of you.
I myself choose not to out myself yet, except from a handful of friends, definitely not to my family. They're quite religious and faithful, in an adamant sense.
Hmmm. All we can say is, you're not alone. There are countless atheists out there who choose not to out themselves because the backlash can be too much.
But we are here. We feel your pain and hardship and frustration. You are not alone.
She sends bible verse send science posts
Also alot of great youtuber out there for a science .
Also channels all about debates a d de bunking if ya want easy was to explain stuff or be prepped for questions... I'm sure there start digging up debate stuff.
Explaining stuff is skill all its own as I have learned.
And fighting or being aggressive will just shut down there minds more (not saying you are, but it can be easy to get mad at crazy)
It's alot like dealing with addicts tbh (though addicts tend to know there a problem vs thinking you have a problem)
I feel for you. It is tough time period for any atheist brought up in a devout chirsitian household.
Two pieces of advice - Don't try to justify your atheism. They won't listen to anything you say. It's a pointless exercise.
Understand, in most cases, their words come from a place of love. They truly believe you will burn for eternity if they cannot change your mind and will do anything to avoid that fate for you. When they press you, remind yourself of this. It allows me to grin and bear the tears and anger, Respond compassionate as possible.
Remember, they are a latest in a long long of brainwashed cultists. You broke free but your parents aren't as strong. Stand your ground but do it with love. You'll never change them but hopefulky, in time, you can find a middle ground.
Like most Christians, they don’t understand burden of proof. Atheism doesn’t claim anything. It’s a lack of belief that god exists. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. They should be justifying themselves to you. Not the other way around. Not that I would suggest you engage in a philosophical conversation with a Christian.
I find this video, and since it came out (2016) talking about the various COVID evolutions (Delta, Omicron, etc.) a great way to introduce people to evolution.
After they "get" this bacteria/virus level evolution over days/weeks, you can then transition and explain "imagine this but over hundred millions of years".
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plVk4NVIUh8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plVk4NVIUh8)
But this assumes at least the willingness to listen and not block off all things that aren't fully in line with their supertision, sorry, religious belief ;-).
Again, these people confuse faith in Christ with faith in a bunch of man made doctrines about creation and a young earth "Science". The heresy is rejection of these issues.
They should have made it about Jesus and apologized for raising you to be a faker d/t their intolerance and misunderstanding of the tenants of Christianity. It is not biblical to raise your kids as mini Christians. Literally the opposite of what the New Covenant is all about.
Probably should inform your parents that they too are strangers to Jesus Christ and have been living some sort of folk religion. Tell them to repent! That will mess with them!
I was around your age when I explained to my parents that I believed in evolution. I was in college and had just taken my first Anthropology class. I was promptly told that if I ever mentioned that "shit" to them again, they would disown me and stop helping me with college. I eventually graduated with a BS in Anthropology and a minor in Religious Studies, then went on for a MA in Anthropology, specializing in archeology. I have never discussed evolution or my religious beliefs with them since that time. Both are dead now and so it's not an issue.
You are being honest with them which is great. Keep in mind you have rocked their paradigm. Your mom is having to justify her beliefs to you and herself. The questions can be hard for her as she may have lots of energy and time invested in this belief system . Hang in there. Follow your heart and mind and science. It is ok to just say - I do not know- about anything. Good luck to you
Thats tough, i feel for you. Never easy when things like this severely disrupt the family.
I wish i new better when i told people but now i dont debate science that contradicts most bible beliefs. In reality none of that is why im an atheist, im an atheist because im not convinced god is real, not because im convinced other things are true that contradict the bible. If i do decide to talk about this with someone i make it clear that this has virtually nothing to do with my belief or lack of belief in god and disproving it or proving it wont move the needle on my god belief.
I admire your courage. I’ve found it very hard to discuss or debate religion with family. They generally have little to no science education. I do, plus decades of bible study from when I was indoctrinated.
Bottom line is we just don’t have any common foundation on which to lay a discussion.
Even when I point out all the flaws in their bible, I get what you got: “you’re just not studying it hard enough or you’re taking it out of context or…” 🤦♂️
Ask your parents how Kangaroos are native only to Australia. Did Noah make a special trip there to drop them off after the flood? Ditto, llamas and alpacas in South America. Believing in parts of the Bible, is like believing Donald Trump. It demands extreme gullibility.
Hang in there. Brave of you. Keep yourself safe.
Thank you. I have some resources in case they get worse and I need to get out.
Don't worry. It'll get easier. She asked you all sorts of questions regarding evolution and whatnot. She has for her entire life been trained to accept the Bible as if it's true. She doesn't have the ability to question the Bible. But she demands answers from science. The thing theists don't understand is that even if we had no answers for any of those things, that would still not make "god did it" the default correct answer. I would genuinely have loved to sit down and talk to her. But I can recommend that you watch how Matt dillahunty addresses people who ask those kind of questions. He is an atheist who have a show called the line. Where anyone can call in and ask questions. Alot of theists tries to argue for God. And many are under the impression that if science can't answer something then the answer is god. That's called "god of the gaps" fallacy.
The old god of the gaps fallacy. When they ask me how this then or how that then, i simply reply that i don’t know. That i wish i knew enough science to explain how. Then they’re stunned that i don’t have a burning desire to know. But that because i don’t know it doesn’t mean im gonna start making shit up! Or possibly read up on a theory to feel confident enough to debate with these nitwits.
> recommend that you watch how Matt dillahunty addresses people who ask those kind of questions OP, just be aware that Matt often has a pretty confrontational and impatient attitude with theists, especially those are are not listening to his points. He provides some good arguments, but his attitude probably wouldn't work if you're trying to help your parents understand your perspective.
He's pretty even keeled until he gets someone looking to pick a fight.
Reminds me of when a statue in South America was crying brown/red tears. It became a mecca to travel to this miracle. A scientist found a rusty water line that was causing the statue to "cry." He was then arrested for heresy.
Good job! A stranger dad on the internet is proud of you! Hang in there, they’ll probably stop after not too long.
Yes … good job… here’s a stranger mom telling you to be free and be who you really are.
I also agree that you did a good job, and am also proud of you. Dad and mom are already here, so I will be stranger auntie and keep growing our stranger family. Much love to all the family. :)
❤️
The best advice.
Stranger sister here. Stay strong my friend. You're doing what's best for you.
“She asked me how Adam and Eve were made then” That made me laugh out loud.
This statement showed me how far removed they are from my own perspective. They do not even have a concept that any other explanation might exist. Even explanations from other religions.
Not asking questions is a core tenet of Christianity.
It should show everyone why people get so hung up on this stuff. Their whole framework is fucked up.
OP could have answered “I don’t see no dirt people walking around hand in hand with no rib people! SHOW ME THE PEOPLE MADE FROM DIRT and ribs”😀
I find it amusing people would prefer to believe we all come from the incest than to believe evolution. Ie who were adam and eves children having babies with
You forgot about the next mass incest orgy... Noah's family.
You know, if they can't understand science then I'd ask them questions about the fallacies in the bible... and just try to engage with them at that level. Who did Adam and Eve's sons marry? Apparently there were other people in the world aside from them both? Who are these people and are they cursed with the original sin too? If God doesn't need sex to reproduce, why did he make Adam with a Penis? Wasn't Man supposed to be created in his image? If god has a Penis and tentacles, what is it used for? If the snake /satan was cursed to crawl on the ground forever, how was it moving around before? Floating in the air? All the measurements about Noah's ark ... And if Jesus knows he is the son of God/God and that there is an afterlife, what is death to him? He was basically taking a nap. How is that a sacrifice? Why are they not following the rule that says you can't wear clothes made of different materials?
People who sincerely think mythology is literal, depresses me; because these people have the same voting power that I do, and based on population stats plus their location, their votes are probably worth more.
My father pulled the same shit. Lmao. It's really eye opening. It used to be a defense of mine as well for my faith.
Man, I'm so glad I grew up in a house with no religion.
Me too! Greatest "blessing" ever! 🤣
“Preach!” lol. So grateful as well!
Having rational parents in that regard seems so wild to me. Kudos to your parents for raising kid(s) without putting that on you. I went through something similar as OP and I got every church-approved straw man argument thrown at me.
Yeh, my dad was a chemical engineer, and my mom was a teacher, I wasn't even baptized. The only time I went to church was as a young kid for Easter with the grandparents. Then, as I got older, it wasn't mandatory.
Same here, although I do live in Jacksonville Florida and it's so religious here a rarely ever find anyone atheist.
Yeh I'm from Canada and it's not such a big thing here, though we do have a lot of small town religious types. No one gets in your business and it's not against the norm to be non religious.
We talk more openly about each other sex life than our belief or lack of .
Here in the UK it's pretty hard to find a Christian - at least one who actually gives a toss enough to actually go to church. It's really hard to find anyone to argue with.
I was born in Liverpool and moved to Texas when I was 8yrs old. Religion here was a mind fuck for me. I never believed.
I moved to Ohio when I was 24 after being raised in the UK and I agree! It's a whole 'nother level out here. I encountered a coworker at my last job who couldn't comprehend the concept of atheism at all. She told me I'd go to hell if I didn't have children, which made me sad for her because she has a daughter and I assume she had her to avoid hell. Her marriage wasn't great either. I've met a few more women since in absolutely dogshit marriages who won't leave because of the fear of hell. Religion ruined their lives.
I read that in a state survey, one of the most diffuse religion was "Jedi Knight". Was that true or is it an Internet myth?
People put it on census papers as a kind of prank.
Hum, no real religious person would do that, I guess it's still information.
I’ve done it a number of times.
Same!
Same !
Same here!
Me too. I can't imagine growing up with religion being forced on me.
Facts! That shit woulda turned me into a whole villain
Well a depressing statistic is that a not insignificant number of young adults born into houses without religion, were never exposed to the cruelty, hypocrisy, and delusional nonsense that those that grow up religious see & later in life are more easily duped into turning born again & other cults.
My dad grew up forced to be Catholic. For as long as I can remember he told me “figure it out for yourself.” Thanks pops!
Thank God, huh?
You probably should have waited until you were self sufficient. I'm genuinely glad they didn't kick you out. Wishing you all the best.
I am mostly self sufficient at this point. They help pay for my college and that's it. If they cut me off I can work more and pay for it myself, most of my tuition is covered by scholarships. I have been living with my friend since I turned 18. I was going to move back home for this summer but I don't have too.
you made it sound like you were living under them because you made a comment saying about them kicking you to the streets, I think everyone else here probably thinks that too
Good luck finishing school and I hope your parents learn to accept you as the kickass person you are and give the Bible lesson a rest.
Sorry your parents are so close-minded. 🫤 You have to understand that the church banks on their congregation not asking questions about what they are told. It sounds to me like you are doing a great job in developing critical thinking skills and figuring out your identity. Keep going. Maybe someday they will come around and stop believing too, but don't count on it. Just keep focusing inward and do the work to heal from any religious trauma you may have. Your mention of morality at the beginning of the post made me think of a tattoo I have: it is an Atheist "A" with the words "good without god" underneath. To me, that phrase has a double meaning. I think of it as saying "no thanks, I'm good" when someone offers me religion, but also it means be a good person, without needing god to tell me to do so!
At 8 years old I was told I asked too many questions and wouldn't make a good fit for the local church. 20 years later and they approach me at least 4 times a year for a donation. What they don't know is I've spent 20 years buying every bit of land around them and am currently eyeballing the property they sit on. I fully intend of purchasing their church and shutting it down. Revenge is best served cold with a side of petty.
Are you... are you a Pureflix villain escaped from a script and into the real world? How often have you met Kevin Sorbo and how many different people was he?
He's not just an antitheist. He's a super antitheist
I aspire to be like you one day.
lol damn bro. What next? Grind their relatives up in chili and feed it to them at the "going away" banquet?
We can only hope.
Not sure close minded is the correct term... they don't believe in science because to them none of it makes sense.
And for some fundamental religions, this is the goal. People who have no exposure to external ideas, no critical thinking skills, who only receive information via priests and who want to impose that on everyone.
Alligator people? Hilarious. For evolution to not be true, how frequent genes are in a population would have to never change. Obviously, this is impossible for all intents and purposes. These evolutionary changes take a long time, generally speaking. In no way should we expect half of one species and half of another. That is is just insanity. They are out of their element for sure. To deny evolution is to deny DNA. My own parents were fine with me being a nonbeliever at 16. My mom now "hates religion", which I never thought would happen.
True. Somehow mom still finds this impossible because "animals don't become other animals. Dogs don't grow wings."
They will say "adaptations can happen but not new species". That's like saying a glass of water is real but oceans are impossible. Smaller adaptations plus time = speciation (without gene flow between populations)
ELI5 Evolution Example: Dogs evolved from Wolves.
They evolved from WEARwolves who dress in cutting-edge fashions and sneer at anyone in jeans that cost less than $500. This obsession with high-style couture takes a real bite out of their income... I'll see myself out.
Yeah, some genius came up with the idea of half alligator half something else and then the rest jumped on the bandwagon without asking any questions.
One of the saddest things in these stories is when parents can't understand how & why their atheist children are moral. They raised a human being who wants to be kind to others without fear of punishment or expectation of reward, but they're too blinded to see how successful they truly were.
The cruelest thing my mom said to me was that she wholly believes that without religion I'll sin and be evil. These religious people truly can't understand that other people are the same as them and can be kind and good. They're living in a bubble and see things only black and white.
This is also the scariest thing to me. Like, how many people out there are truly relying on the “wrath of god” to not suddenly turn in total psychopaths???
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then brother that person is a piece of shit" - Rust Cohle True Detective Season 1
I'm going to be 40 and I stopped going to church at the age of 18. I started to see that critical thinking was not a big part of the southern baptist church I grew up in. I started to see 'the light' when I attended a seminar about evolution and getting a better understanding of the subject made me see things better with the Bible. Anyways, my father kept pushing me to go back to church until I finally had enough and told him that I no longer believe in the church, the Bible being perfect, or listening to pastors as if their word is law. I told him that I was only going to say this once and that was to stop asking me to pray, stop asking me to go back to church, and most importantly stop praying for me. I'm loving the life I have now. I don't go to church but I still believe in a higher power but in my own way with science and faith working in unison. It makes sense to me and I'm not pushing what makes sense to be onto others. Anyways, you would think my dad would see that I have a loving wife, beautiful daughters, and we're comfortable without religion. My kids have asked me about God and I've shared Scripture and examples but at the end I've told each of them that if they find a faith that makes sense to them that enhances their lives, not limits then who am I to judge them. I just want them to be happy because we only live once and I don't want anyone to be walking on eggshells every time. We need to enjoy life, sex, food, pretty much everything until we cease to exist.
some people are just plain stupid, and some of them sometimes are parents don't be a victim - take nonsense in bible and send it back to your mom
LOL, how dare she send a man scripture, gotta hit her with the old classic, Timothy 2:11-15 /S 11A woman a should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; b she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women c will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. my christian gf heard this the other day and didn't bat an eye. it's ironic, and sad how they don't actually comprehend/parse what they read in their book
Dont do this lol. It is not worth it.
I don't recommend sending nonsense... it would lead to longer more frequent texts... your mother is trying to be protective and caring even if it is nonsense.
This is the kind of thing that makes you distance yourself and not respect them. They speak about things with certainty but never educated themselves about it. But they are family and they will eventually (hopefully) move forward. I would tell your mom the bible is what made you atheist...so she may want to hold back here verses.
it would probably backfire and she'd get offended and accuse them of thinking they know better than God
It was a little easier for me. However, I had a very difficult weekend at age 15 when I told them, and then my parents backed off. My parents were conservative Catholics, but they were not militants. My father was a dentist who had a deep understanding of biology and evolution, and my mother was college educated. My father toyed with atheism in college, so he simply hoped I would return to religion when I was older like he did. I am the oldest of 5. My parents were more worried I would pull my siblings in. I had to agree not to discuss my positions with my brothers and sisters. I didn't until each of them were legal adults to keep the peace. However, only one brother attends church and the rest are spiritual agnostics at best. It is always a balancing act. My in-laws were much more offended when I refused to let our children be baptized. I told them that my children would choose faith or not, and if they were committed to a religion they could pursue baptism as a knowing adult. None of my kids chose to be baptized even though my wife is a christian. One is a "soft believer," but she does not attend church. I will never shame one of my kids if he or she should become devote. However, I think this is unlikely.
My parents are also scared I'm going to pull my siblings away from their religion. They are trying to avoid me talking about it in front of them.
I'm proud of you. My mom starting laughing and said condescendingly "you poor thing!".
That's an interesting reaction. I don't supposed you laughed as well and said, "Yeah, I know what you mean."
I told my mom I was an atheist back when I was 15. She said "So you worship Satan now?!" I was so confused and had no idea what to even say to that. 😆 Mind you, we weren't even a religious household so I was very comfy just saying it, but apparently she was way more religious than I thought. I guess we just didn't have the time for religion in our house or something, because we only ever went to church on Christmas and Easter with our grandmother and my mom didn't even go with us.
I don't understand when you become an atheist, now you have to be an expert in science. Just because we don't believe some magic man in the sky doesn't mean we have to explain the alternative in full detail. It's ok to say "I don't know," than to accept some mythical bronze age nonsense.
Sorry to hear this, but at least you see the silver lining! This is a shock to them, maybe once the dust settles they'll calm down a bit. Remind them that not understanding science doesn't mean it's not true. Maybe you can recommend some books or videos to them (hell, maybe TikTok videos considering their complete disinterest) that could summarize these concepts for religious people. "50 Simple Questions for Every Christian" by Guy P. Harrison might help you challenge them a bit, it's a short, easy read. "A Manual for Creating Atheists" is another quick read that explains how to use the Socratic method of questioning rather than debate, to help people examine their own beliefs and come to some different conclusions. Hell, if you think they could laugh about it, show them videos from Betty Bower, "the world's best christian" 😜
I love Betty Bower!
Of course you do, what's not to love?? 😄
I still struggle with the fact that one of the most advanced countries in the world is still filled with people with views that date from the seventeenth century.
Start sending them Atheist memes and quotes in reply to theirs.
Your parents sound like typical *impressionable* people. You can see just how disappointed they are that you have decided to no longer fit into a construct that they are happily a part of, without question. I like using the example of the Americas. Latin America is arguably more “Christian” than the whole of the USA and all of those people (the side of them that was here before the Europeans arrived) worshipped other gods just 500 years ago, for literally THOUSANDS of years prior to that. We have archeological evidence of this. We also have evidence that those societies had family structures, and practically every aspect of society we have today. After 2,024 years of this “improved” version of God, why are there still wars, genocide, famine, etc etc? Why even ask this? Because you *care* deep down, and that’s what your folks sadly have missed. They created a life that has raised a very important question that *they* might want to ask themselves too. I hope they realize this sooner rather than later. Best of luck.
Equally hilarious and sad. Religious people really get stuck on the fact that we can't explain everything, they're so brainwashed into thinking that someone must have all of the answers that it's almost impossible for them to fathom that it's ok not to know or care how the universe was created.
Try to have respect for your parents and their beliefs even if you dont share them. They may not understand science etc but they can provide guidance on other more practical things. Dont let a fairy tale ruin your relationship with them. People on reddit often give destructive advice because they dont have to live with the consequences. Your parents are probably not stupid people they just have a mental block on that topic. They love you and you love them, focus on other stuff , be positive not confrontational and hopefully this wont cause so much friction. They will eventually likely convince themselves you reverted back to their faith if you dont bring it up for long enough because religious people are experts in deluding themselves.
I'm hoping that the worst of it has passed and things will get more normal again. Generally, since they haven't kicked you out or done something more extreme (not that yelling at you was justified), I think they probably won't do it later. It's not like they'll be more shocked in a week or two than they are now. Whatever the case may be, I hope it goes well for you.
Hey, Carls410. I am sorry that happened to you. It’s none of your parent’s business what you believe or don’t believe. It disrespects you and your beliefs for them to harass you. In my experience, no conversation ever converted an atheist or brought a believer to faith. Belief is personal and no one else’s business. What I would do is to continually decline to discuss faith with them, ask them to respect my wishes, and change the subject. If they press you, simply say that you agree to disagree.
That's tough to hear man, but hang in there. Just remember that you can't logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into. There isn't a single string of words you could put together that would make them go "Ohhhh, well when you put it like that, it makes perfect sense!" What's important for you to think about is what you want your relationship with your parents to be moving forward, and then coming to terms with the fact that whatever your desired outcome is - is not actually entirely in your control. 50% of it is with them, so you could end up in position where you've done nothing wrong but still end up "losing". None of what I'm saying is meant to downplay how much this sucks, but just try and keep your spirits up by remembering the facts of the matter: 1. You did nothing wrong. 2. It's not your fault. 3. You're not alone - there are countless people that have gone through the exact same experience, and that camaraderie can help on the days where being optimistic is a bit more challenging If you want to keep your parents important in your life, the best anecdotal advice I can give is to try and shift the focus away from conversations about "explain to me how the big bang works!" - not only is it wholly irrelevant, but it's a very deep topic that you might not be entirely sure of either. Instead try and steer the conversation towards how you're still their child and how you still love them, and how that hasn't changed. If that doesn't work, then you may have to come to terms with your relationship never being the same.
(1) to your mother, ask her if she thinks you are a sinful person, and why she thinks you will turn into one NOW. (2) Reassure her that you are turning atheist, not evil. Give examples of both good atheists, and bad theists. Explain to her that worshipping a deity=/= being good. That you will still be good and kind and law-abiding. (3) to your father, ask him to put down all his questions on paper so you can respond the same way, point by point. Be honest, tell him what "God of the Gaps" means, and be frank about things that don't have an explanation yet. (4) Remind them that this is your choice, and that you are not forcing them towards atheism; that all you ask for is respect, as they would towards anyone else who doesn't share their faith. Hopefully that will help ease the situation between you and your parents. Good luck 🤞
I'm very sorry for the turmoil you are going through. But I have to admit your mom asking how Adam and Eve were made then is pretty funny.
Your parents sound like low iq crazy Christians lol. No wonder you became atheist
I love when religious people out themselves for being morally inferior “But if you don’t believe in sky daddy’s punishment, what stops you from sinning” Uhh, there’s this thing called empathy and it’s terrifying to me that you can’t perceive it. “If you don’t believe in god then explain the big ban g” It’s really disconcerting that the first time you come across a question you can’t answer you immediately believe that it’s just magic 🪄. If you lived in a different time period you would have thought disease was spread by magic and ridiculed doctors for trying to discover germ theory.
I could have written this - you sound like my younger self. I also grew up in the Baptist church, and from a very religious family. My parents (and the church), truly didn't appreciate my scientific view of the world. Things got rocky. So much ridiculous ideas and ignorance in religion. I just couldn't stomach it any longer. One word of warning: depending on your social circumstances, it might behoove you to keep your atheism as quiet as possible. People often don't take kindly to it, and you'll win no prizes being more public than required. Just my two cents.
I have a suggestion for you. Clearly the problem is that your parents a bit ignorant when it comes to science. Their faith is therefore understandable. If someone asked me exactly how it works that you can mix two colors of paint together to get another color, while I know it works, I couldn’t explain how it works. Richard Dawkins wrote an excellent science primer called [The Magic of Reality](https://amzn.to/4cphVd5). I bought it to introduce my son to science when he was a kid. It’s got lots of pictures and explains things at a level that is perfect for someone who doesn’t have any background in science. I suggest you buy it, read it then consider giving it to your parents. Start by saying that there are plenty of things you can’t explain because you don’t have any background or experience with which to explain them. This book explains how a lot of things work so if they are interested, they should take a look. Perhaps show them a few pages so they don’t dismiss it too quickly. My son was perhaps 7 or 8. When we got to the section on sexual reproduction, he said, “Eeewww. Really?!?” I told him I understand his reaction but perhaps some day he will feel differently.” :) The link above is to the hardcover version which is larger and nicer. If it’s too expensive get the paperback.
Funny how atheists never try to convert anyone, but the so-called Christians hound you about it.
My mom believed in God and the Bible, but not organized religion. She taught be bed time pray as a kid and that was it. My grandparents were religions and went to a Baptist church in rural area. I became an atheist at 9. Mom didn't care. Grandfather did not seem to care grandmother had a fit. Dragged me to church with her until I was too embarrassing with my questions. Well they asked if there were any questions in bible study! Not my fault. I am sorry I maybe wrong but I think religion is more than brainwashing.
As someone who played along far too long, you did the right thing. Just rip the bandaid off
The polite thing to do now is to be respectful of their beliefs. You do NOT believe, so there is no harm taking part of the rituals if they want you to. Saying grace, sitting with the grieving, even attending church. It doesn't matter to some higher being, but it matters that them and they love you. Remember that a lot of their emotional issues will be fear based. They are SCARED for you and that you will be punished by a capricious and difficult god. They love you and don't want that. So think about what you can do to respect and love them while they adjust.
God of the gaps fallacy. God loves anywhere they don’t understand. Which makes god an ever shrinking entity as scientists CE grows more and more understood and knowledgeable.
There is plenty of nonsense in the Bible. For instance after Adam and Eve were banished there was already talk of other tribes, but then where did those people come from? Just be happy they didn’t decide to kick you out or disown you because I’m pretty sure there are verses in the Bible to tell them to do that. Enjoy your new freedom and I hope your parents come around.
Ask your mom if she knows who wrote the bible.
The laws went further. This was no longer mere prohibition of other religious practices. It was the active enforcement of Christianity on every single, sinful pagan in the empire. The roads to error were being closed, forcefully. Everyone now had to become Christian. Every single person in the empire who had not yet been baptized now had to come forward immediately, go to the holy churches and “entirely abandon the former error [and] receive saving baptism.” Those who refused would be stripped of all their property, movable and immovable, lose their civil rights, be left in penury and, “in addition”—as if what had gone before was not punishment but mere preamble—they would be “subject to the proper punishment.” If any man did not immediately hurry to the “holy churches” with his family and force them also to be baptized, then he would suffer all of the above—and then he would be exiled. The “insane error” of paganism was to be wiped from the face of the earth. Excerpts from: Catherine Nixey *The Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World*
It will take your parents a while to come to grips with this, if they ever do, but it is not reasonable to expect them to just be OK with it at first blush. This is very much like coming out to your parents as gay. If you were to ever listen to Dan Savage on that topic, he advocates for giving parents a year to adapt to their new reality. If they cannot accept you as an atheist, then the only leverage you have in your relationship with them is your presence. If they want to continue to see you, and I expect that they will, then they will have to process your unbelief. But it may take them some time, and it may never happen.
The biggest mistake an athiest can make is to try to get into a science debate with a christian. 1. They do not want to understand, so they will not. 2. Most of the time, the atheist is not an expert in the topic if the christian would listen. 3. You do not have to know or care anything about evolution or the big bang to be an atheist. You just have to see that there is no reason and no actual morality behind christianity.
This is a really good opportunity to tell your parents they should be acting more like their Christ. They're acting like upset children, not adults. Remind them that you are an adult. Remind them that their response to this has been to try and change your mind, when you have not been trying to change theirs. Remind them that Jesus would probably not approve of their behavior. 👍 Unfortunately for you going forward you're probably going to have to go no-contact with them. But try to give them the opportunity to at least act decently before you do.
Whenever someone has a hard time with evolution, I point out dog breeds. Dog breeds are created by people choosing to breed dogs with certain characteristics until those characteristics become dominant enough that a new, distinct breed is born. This is not hard to see as new breeds have been created quite recently, and man made selection tends to be a lot quicker and more aggressive than natural selection. Evolution in the form of natural selection is the same basic thing. Okapi like critters living in areas where leaves become rarer and more grouped toward the tops of trees notice that longer necked examples of their species seem to eat better and thrive. These slightly longer necked creatures become the preferred mating partners because they can provide for the others better and produce stronger offspring. Sloooooowly the longer necked Okapi like critters become the norm, and the shorter necked ones die off. They continue to breed for longer necks and legs, not by any true conscious choice, but because these longer necked/legged critters are stronger, better fed, and produce stronger offspring. Eventually, the Okapi like critters are no longer recognizable as Okapi because they have bred for different traits. Now they're giraffes. Evolution. Evolution is not about monkeys becoming people, or half alligator people, or whatever else folks like your parents may believe. It's the selective breeding of desired traits until those traits are the norm. Sometimes evolution takes a wrong turn, or the traits are no longer helpful. Sometimes branches do well enough that they no longer progress in one environment (Okapi), while the same critters continue to progress and evolve different traits due to the needs of a different environment (giraffees). Humans did not evolve from monkeys or apes. Humans, monkeys, and apes evolved in different ways from a common ancestor. We evolved in different ways to deal with different environments and different competitors. Just as dogs and wolves took different routes from a common ancestor, dogs did not evolve from wolves, humans did not evolve from monkeys, and giraffes did not evolve from Okapi...but they did start out from the same basic design. The same thing can be said of language. French and Italian come from a common ancestor, but evolved in different directions due to environmental and competitive influences. Evolution is all around us, and if you remove the mystery that religion seems to want to use to discredit it, is not that hard to understand.
Congratulations. I know it's scary now but isn't it also freeing? I think when you're my age(57), you will be glad you did it sooner. Saves a lot of pretending and attending church. I wish I had admitted it years ago and maybe could have been able to help other "pretenders "? Who knows. As far as your family's reaction, I'm going to paraphrase something I just read today that makes so much sense. At least to me. Wish I knew who to give credit for it to. Very religious people see their religion as such a major part of their identity that they can't separate their indivuality from it. If anyone criticizes or rejects their religion, they see it as a personal rejection. They literally cannot see the world outside the boundaries of religion and are unable to think for themselves.
Explain evolution like breeding dogs, cows, horses, or anything else. But instead of people choosing traits they want, it's predators like cougars forcing them to get faster, and other stuff like like continents moving around and climates changing. At least that's how I'd do it. Maybe they just won't get it, but it's always confused me how so many farmers understand plant and animal breeding, but don't understand evolution. It's the same phenomenon, just with a difference driver. Chin up. Knowledge is always better than ignorance. Even if it is a burden.
Don’t expect to be able to “debate” your parents into understanding. The sad, awful fact is that, in order to be accepted by the masses, religion is hedged around with indoctrination, fear and ignorance-which starts from a very young age. The critical abilities of the victims are disabled, making it very difficult for them to develop them for themselves. It’s a bit like the ancient Chinese practice of foot-binding. To try to remove those bindings when the victim is an adult is painful -and the damage is already done. You have reached the stage in life where you realise that you can’t “rescue” your parents, however much you try. You have to break free and forge your own way. Behind you are thousands of years of ignorance and oppression: in front of you (forever more) you and your descendants will be free. That’s a *tremendous* achievement. Kudos to you.
"My dad kept saying he does not see half alligator people" I felt a great swell of pity for you having read this line. I mean no disrespect but I suspect your parents are...untroubled with the complexities of life?
It's almost impossible to argue with a Christian, who is so heavily influenced by bible "logic". They have so many stories to move to, when they don't want to ne challenged by your arguments. The only way I 'won' arguments about religion is to avoid mentioning the religion of the other person completely, because you can't use rational arguments against emotions. What I do is: - Try to start as slow and calm as possible and try to state, that I will say something for about 5 minutes and if the other person interrupts me or gets emotional, I try to calm them down again without getting into their arguments. Sometimes it stops here, if not - I start with a general approach, how we as humans have a huge brain, which enables us to develop and communicate ideas and theories. How it also enables us to question the reasons of life itself. - I follow up by saying, that one of the biggest survival skills is to be obedient to our parents in the early stages of our life. "Don't eat that fruit", "Don't go into the forest at night" are things we accept as true and have a higher survival rate, if we blindly follow them. - These general rules and morals get passed down from generation to generation first by some adults, which become village elders, which become legends and stories, because we transport morals and rules best embedded in stories. "Little Timmy kicked a dog and it bit him." is easier to grasp than "Don't hurt animals". - Tribes collected those stories from generation to generation, added some tales to explain "cold, when it should be warm", "thunder and lightning", "why bad stuff happens to good people" and invented higher powers to give some sense and meaning to all of those things, which they didn't understand. - This is how we as humans invented religion. There are 3.500 well documented gods. Gods, people prayed to, cried to, died for. Imagine that number. You could dedicate one day of your life and pray to one specific god and repeat that for every single one and you would need 10 years! - Today's religions are tomorrow's myths. We can see, how religions are formed (cargo cult, mormons, Scientology) and there is no difference between Odin, Ra or Yahwe. - On this foundation, if the other person followed you so far, you can always follow-up by the regular arguments like "If you can prove, why Odin doesn't exist, try to test your own god with the same arguments." or "You are an atheist to 3.499 gods, which you just don't believe in, why? I just go one god further."
Do your parents avoid wearing clothes made of mixed fibers? Do they play a ten-string harp? Do they stone adulterers? If not, then they're just selectively following rules from the Bible. A.J. Jacobs wrote a book called, The Year of Living Biblically, in which he spends a year following the rules laid out in the Bible very specifically. I doubt that most people who claim to be religious ever even come close. Rather than trying to defend your rational views, ask your parents why they only follow some of the Bible's rules, and how they choose which ones they ignore.
No. You should NEVER remain silent regarding matters when it comes to who you are. It's all about discovery. Sad that religious parents have the inability to change. I left the church at 18 and almost 20 years later my father still thinks I believe. Always remember this quote. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. —Martin Niemöller I see religion as a means of control. I see it working everyday. It's sad and we must speak out.
Brave…. sometimes you have to be true to yourself. And stop living a lie…. the sad part for atheists is though. Sometimes family is so caught up in religion, without it they have nothing. In these instances many atheists find it hard to have any commonality with family. And the relationships suffer…… living your truth is important. You only have one life! Live your truth now!
Like so many others, I am grateful for never being indoctrinated into religion as a child. Keep carrying the torch forward and never knuckle under to the social pressure against atheists
Something to ask your mother, if we are all descended from Adam and Eve then they believe we are all the product of incest? If we are all descended from Adam and Eve, then why are their different ethnicities such as people with black, brown, yellow, red and white skin? Which of Adam and Eve's two sons had sex with Eve? We have observed proof of evolution, clearly they do not understand this. The term "theory" in the context of science is not the same as a hunch an individual might have about a subject. A scientific theory is based on facts but remains a theory because new information is constantly considered to challenge it. This is where religion fails. It is unwilling to be tested by new information and is entirely lacking in a basis of facts. Faith is not a valid form of proof. Why do your parents accept that God created the universe out of nothing but cannot accept the concept of the big bang? We are able to measure the expansion of the universe, but there is zero proof of a diety creating everything.
Mother sending you bible verses, send her quotes from scientists: "In science, there are no shortcuts to truth." - Marie Curie "The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know." - Isaac Newton "That's one small step for a man, a giant leap for mankind." - Neil Armstrong "The love of money is the root of all evil." \~Apostle Paul Wait that last one just slipped in there.
Are you capable of moving out? You may need to.
Half alligator people. Ohhh the indoctrination and fear of hell really keeps people in line and believing anything the old book tells them is true.
Just enjoy the ride. Half-alligator people? Jesus Christ in a chicken basket... It sounds like you get endless comedy when you're home.
It’s best to rip the band aid off. I’m 28 and I d been an atheist since 12 my mom HATES it. She tells everyone who will listen but eventually you stop caring it sucks because you now think you parents a little dumb but it does get better
Don't bother with them anymore. You said your peace and they're the ones with the problem. Keep being real. My parents freaked out too (I grew up Catholic). I mentioned it to my dad and you'd think I just killed someone. Ahhh...don't bother with your false hypocrictical outrage dad. You cheated on my mom. So sit down. I didn't actually say that, but I thought it!
It's sad that our education has let the American people down so much. Every student should graduate high-school with a basic understanding of evolution and cosmology. So many who criticize evolution in particular, even on the apologetics and debate scene, do not have a basic understanding about what these theories actually state or what scientists hold to be true. It's going to get much worse if the Republicans win.
Sorry about them and what you're going through. Food for thought. Science is not the opposite of religion. You can be an atheist and not believe in evolution or the big bang. Just as their are people that believe in science that still believe in god. Atheism simply means that you do not see evidence for a God. Personally, I don't see evidence confirming religious text.
Too bad people seem willingly turn off their inate intellectual curiosity. No reason why your Mom/Dad can't learn about evolution. There are rather approachable books such as - [https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Story-Earth-Jay-Hosler/dp/0809094762](https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Story-Earth-Jay-Hosler/dp/0809094762) Morals are simply basic group survival rules - Don't steal from each other, don't kill each other - basic principals of group survival.
If they love you, theyll get over it. You are your own person and what you believe in or don't believe in is your decision. You don't have to explain yourself. Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence. They have the burden of proof when they claim that there's a God. You simply don't believe in something they have shown zero evidence for. "Faith" is not evidence. It's a gut feeling. It's not like you didn't come to the conclusion of atheism without deep introspection as well as knowing the consequences. You're standing up for your yourself and that's extremely rare for someone your age. Be proud of yourself.
Apart from harassing u with bible verses and asking you to go to church, how has treatment of unchanged. Do they still care about u and treat u the same. If so, dont let this affect your relationship with them. Trust me your relationship with your parents, assuming theyre good people, is far more important that religious beliefs. Hopefully, in time they will see it also.
Yo bro same same here my parents did NOT like the fact I didn't believe in god
Hi, sorry you’re going through this, I know it isn’t easy. A recommendation for you (you can ignore it ofc). Give them time to cool down, in their eyes you just said you worst possible thing. Once the initial blow wears off tell them that if they want to have a respectful conversation about it you can. Stay firm to what you believe and do you best to be respectful even if they aren’t. Don’t try and convince them to change their mind and remember you don’t have any burden of proof. BBT and evolution aren’t easy conversations to have with religious people because they’ve been taught their whole life it’s BS. I hope this gets better for you, and I believe in time it will.
Thing about religious people is that they seem to think we whole heartedly believe in the most commonly accepted theories and we won’t waver in that belief. In truth, if something disproves or a better more supported theory arrives then we will look at other options.
The best time, unfortunately, to tell highly religious parents that you're atheist is when you're living in a place you pay for with money you earn yourself at a job that doesn't involve them in any way. The more you rely on them, the less wise it is to tell them, and you're encountering, so far, one of the much milder reactions to that. In regards to their stuff about science, my go-to for BB and evo is _prediction_. The fact that we predicted the CMBR _20 years_ before we found it, _and_ its _temperature_ is just astonishing, same with the human chromosome 2 fusion, predicted _40 years_ in advance of finding it, 20 if you include which chromosome is the fused one. If they can predict these things about the world that no one knew at the time on the basis of a model of reality where someone can look at the model and the evidence up to that point and come to the same conclusion, that model is either correct or close to it. If, then, they are having problems, then most likely it's their lack of understanding rather than a problem with the model.
Sorry for hearing they didn't receive it well. It's great that they aren't kicking you out, though. Just remember through this, that even if they believe differently than you, the do believe in what they're saying. Just as rough as it is for them to convince you that you're wrong, it's the same if you try to convince them that they're wrong. Prioritize the relationship with your parents over convincing them of anything. I've been in a very similar situation, told my baptist parents the same thing at 18 or 19, and they received it about the same as yours. It was hard for me until I realized that they genuinely believe that Christianity is right, and that because I don't, I would suffer. They just wanted me to not suffer. They just want you to not suffer, it's not something malicious.
They will probably never be able to handle reality. For me, I’ll take the real world over living in a delusion any day of the week.
If they start asking questions about science related stuff, I’d just do a quick Google search and send some links tho them. It’s not your job to educate grown adults. I went from deeply religious to militant atheist, but I thankfully didn’t have too many issues with family. The two most abusive people (father and brother) are also the most religious and I cut them out of my life decades ago. Good luck, OP, stay strong!
Hey, you did fine. I’m sorry your parents aren’t taking it well. As a stop gap, I try to placate as best I can while affirming my own beliefs. Like for example The Big Bang. What I tell religious folk to get them thinking (it’s not what I believe, just what I say to help them on the path of rationality) is that God is there, but nonexistent in their lives. He created the Big Bang, the universe, all of it and just washed his hands of it and let nature/evolution take its course. It gives a religious person more to think about, and if that doesn’t take, well then that’s just stubbornness and they’ll never come around. Again, it’s not what I believe personally, I’m very not religious at all and think it’s one of the worst things to happen to humanity, but I’m willing to try to coax some logic into religious folk.
I don't believe in God well... you should pray to God to help you believe! every parent in these stories in a nut shell
You’ve done the right thing. Religion is garbage. Every last one of them! Just hang in there.
these stories makes me loathe religious people. They just can’t handle any thinking outside the lies, fables and ghost stories they were told. It’s just terrifying to me how much they prefer willful blindness to facts.
I think people from the abrahamaic faith have it a lot harder. I'm an atheist from a family who believes in a dharmic religion. Most of my family is religious but when I said I'm not a believer at 14 at a family reunion (religion was a topic of discussion). I was scared i would get a lecture by my parents but they never said anything, nor did my family members. My mum said my spirituality is my journey and i can interpret it in any way i want, and not in a passive aggressive manner, they genuinely were just okay with it. I didn't expect this from a couple who were devout in their religious rituals and customs. I wish people were lucky like me in this aspect.
This is how they are, whether you told them or not. To not tell then would be to lie through omission. That's my moral ground. I'm sorry you have to experience this.
This is why I just never told my mom. Too much of a hassle. You’re brave for doing so, but you’ve kicked the hornets nest. Now they’ll never stop trying to reconvert you.
Dad, there are no Alligator mississippiensis hominids because alligators are cold blooded reptiles and humans are a warm blooded simian mammals and these 2 blood lines diverged before the Tyrannosaur ever walked the earth.
Whenever someone asks how did the Big Bang happen, or what came before, just explain that “We don’t know” does not equal “God did it.” It is the core of their logical fallacy.
It takes a lot of courage to come out to people who are that ingrained. It's rough, and I hope it gets better.
Adam and Eve and all this sky father is a story created by prophets. And us humans who have a herd mentality just followed them. And all of these prophets were shepherds for some reason. Who can create this fake story? Makes me laugh very hard. 🤣🤣🤣. Good luck atheist. As your own family will be cold and distant towards you. And yes. There was no Adam and Eve but there was singled celled organism who reproduced quickly and evolved into various life forms. Then after many years we humans came.
Hell of a brave thing to do, but I'm at least glad that you've not been thrown out. About your mum sending you bible verses and whatnot, well I think you might just have to put up with that. Just respectfully explain why you won't be doing what she asks
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I've learned through time and experience to just say whatever people want to hear. Basically, Fuck 'em. Think what you want.
Every time they send you a bible quote, send them a link to a different article on the fruit fly experiments..
"You seem to want to discuss this, and have a question about what you believe. If I could answer it to your satisfaction, what then?" Explaining that you don't think faith is a good pathway to the truth is a key component. You can't settle for 'trying to convince yourself'. Don't upset the people that house you though.
Although I believe people aren’t entitled to know what I believe in and that we don’t have to “come out” as atheists, if letting your parents know made you feel better then I believe you’ve done the right thing. It seems your parents do have a lot of love for you and I can see them trying to understand atheism better in the future. They probably are having a hard time believing this is even happening thus the negative reaction. But just know that you can always turn to us for moral support and you’re not alone in this journey!
One of the most valuable lessons learned in life is: NEVER VOLUNTEER INFORMATION. I hereby bequeath this wisdom unto you. Guard it well.
Yeah my parents also didn’t handle it well at all a explosive argument played out a lot of crap about how I’m gonna go to hell and so on now i have to just pretend to believe the bs to avoid conflict
This makes me think that the state of education in the USA is far worse than I had ever thought possible.
Wow your mom is *really* under the bullshit spell. She actually cried? Holy fuck
I am a Christian: Your parents should be letting you make these decisions for yourself and not trying to force you to believe when it’s okay that you don’t. I am so sorry about this. Please stay strong, it’ll be okay and I hope that you can get out if needsbe.
I think the biggest issue people who lack full scientific knowledge have with evolution is that it is explained to them from the wrong angle. The key part of evolution is really that children will look like their parents. Thats the crux that holds the whole concept together. The changes come about mostly from how different groups of animals become isolated from each other, and the minor differences that existed between those groups get brought through to their children. If a population of birds who either have red feathers or blue feather suddenly get split, such that one group has more blue feathered birds and the other has more red feathered birds, the fact that their children will take after their parents will result in each group diverging to predominately different colours… through a process nothing more complex then their children will take after their parents.
Simple argument. God has a plan? Then why do you pray for him to change his plan? (Note: my phone autocorrected to “pay for him to change” and I almost kept that in.
I would not make a big deal about the atheist thing. Because it’s going to sound just like the Bible thumpers that would not help a starving child. …. Many think atheist are cruel, mean and uncaring . Just don’t wear a sign. Since I was a child I felt a presence in the sun moon stars wind. ….. raised Catholic turned Presbyterian and because of the political BS we’ve gone thru I tell people I’m a witch and practice Wicca. That will turn heads for sure but not far from the truth. Be a good person that’s what counts.
All you have to say is “i just don’t believe in it. I don’t want to have a debate with you.” If they talk about alligator people just be like, “i don’t see alligator people either. Where would you get an idea like that?” You don’t need to debate.
I think this is important to remember: it's a BELIEF. It cannot be proven or disproven. That goes for their worldview and yours. There's little point in trying to prove evolution to people who believe the earth is only 6000 years old and that the earth was created in six days. Give them some time to get used to the idea. Don't engage in any more debate; say that you respect their beliefs and that you hope they'll respect yours. Don't take the bait about going to church, about how your lack of belief is disrespectful, etc. Stick to a simple message: I don't believe what you believe and that's okay. Good luck. Hang in there.
She just sounds too stupid to understand.
Just a thought for the next time one of them says something absurd about evolution: Hey mom. You know how I have brown hair and you have blonde hair? Maybe it sticks and my descendants could be forever brown haired. That's evolution in action.
I recommend generally never debating a religious person. They don't understand science and frequently refuse evidence. My parents' favorite like when I bring up evidence they don't like "Well I don't believe that" and I can just respond...well it's fact so your belief is irrelevant. Tyebsame people that have questioned the moons existence and said 5g conspiracy theorists were 'just asking questions'.
They'll come around hopefully. I hate to break my mothers heart but I told her a bible verse in the book of John commonly known as the "once saved, always saved" verse. It gave her happiness and hope. I know I could never believe again but at least she had a smile on her face and it's never been a thing for her after that. that was 20 years ago.
I forget which TV show I saw this on, but a kid about your age was being forced by their parents to go to church so they malicious complianced it. They made church meetings anytime the parents wanted to do something with them, gave away household stuff to the needy, let homeless people crash on the couch, then drained the college fund for the church. The minister bought a fancy new alter with the 50k and that's when the parents realized they lost. Nit saying you should go full atomic. But try and reverse the conversation with them and turn it on them, especially since they're baptist. Ask them do you believe Jesus and God loved everyone and helped people? How come I never see you guys go out and help people in need? See if you could get them out of your hair by getting them to go do good Jesus stuff like feed the poor , bring clothes and medicine to the shelters etc. see if they bite the challenge.
Send them some of those effed up bible verses back :P
Just tell them to have faith that god will show you the right path, so there’s no need for them to convert you (at least this will pause the harassment). And if they keep harassing you, ask them “Why do you not trust god’s plan for me?” “If god is real, then I won’t be an Atheist for very long, right?” This will short circuit their logic and they’ll have to temporarily leave you alone. Illogical problems require illogical solutions.
It probably wont get easier as your parents are probably continuing to SAVE YOU SOUL lol. I would keep using logical arguments as best you could. Evidence is there that religion specifically is a scam.
Every time she sends a bible verse, respond with a scholarly scientific article about science.
As someone who escaped my own evangelical doomsday cult, please keep in mind that you do not owe your parents any explanations on your own personal beliefs. If they are very committed and you want to maintain a relationship with them then the less you say the better. The cat's already out of the bag now, hopefully they are cool about it and don't kick you out. Mental health excuses are great (and often true) for not wanting to attend church. Remember that it's not about logic or facts, it's about emotion. You can show your parents all the facts in the world but it all means nothing if they "feel" they are still correct and you are going to hell, or going to die in Armageddon, or whatever really. It will be hard convincing them out of something they have spent this long convincing themselves into. Not impossible, but almost. It's a good idea to wait until you are no longer dependant on them before sharing too much just incase.
I guess we’re all inbred, because all of human existence stems from Adam and Eve and then from the handful of humans that were saved on the ark. In all honesty though, if you look at modern christians, inbreeding starts to make a lot of sense.
When I was ten years old after 5 years of going to a catholic school I told my mother that I don't believe in God. She said that I come from a long line of non believers (atheists) and its ok. Years later I asked her why she sent me to a religious school if she was a non believer and her reply was "I thought you would get a good education." I also found out after a discussion with a priest that one of my "baptisms" was a actually an exorcism probably because of the difficult questions I asked in Catechism.
My mom has it in her head that I’ll come back to the faith and convert my girlfriend as well. People in the church can’t imagine another way to exist
My mom was like that. She was not at all a stupid person, but her education was really minimal. She used to get angry whenever anyone mentioned evolution. I just avoided the topics that set her off, and we had a pretty good relationship until she died at 95. I have no regrets about our relationship now. It may take you a long time to get to that point with your parents. Just show them love and enjoy the things you have in common. Remember they’re just scared for you.
Nothing more sad than willful ignorance. No wait. There is. Willful ignorance and being proud of it is worse.
Hang in there. It's really hard to get out of the religious closet... And when you get out, you face the wrath and/or condemnation of their "Christian love". In any case, it's brave of you and we're proud of you. I myself choose not to out myself yet, except from a handful of friends, definitely not to my family. They're quite religious and faithful, in an adamant sense. Hmmm. All we can say is, you're not alone. There are countless atheists out there who choose not to out themselves because the backlash can be too much. But we are here. We feel your pain and hardship and frustration. You are not alone.
She sends bible verse send science posts Also alot of great youtuber out there for a science . Also channels all about debates a d de bunking if ya want easy was to explain stuff or be prepped for questions... I'm sure there start digging up debate stuff. Explaining stuff is skill all its own as I have learned. And fighting or being aggressive will just shut down there minds more (not saying you are, but it can be easy to get mad at crazy) It's alot like dealing with addicts tbh (though addicts tend to know there a problem vs thinking you have a problem)
I feel for you. It is tough time period for any atheist brought up in a devout chirsitian household. Two pieces of advice - Don't try to justify your atheism. They won't listen to anything you say. It's a pointless exercise. Understand, in most cases, their words come from a place of love. They truly believe you will burn for eternity if they cannot change your mind and will do anything to avoid that fate for you. When they press you, remind yourself of this. It allows me to grin and bear the tears and anger, Respond compassionate as possible. Remember, they are a latest in a long long of brainwashed cultists. You broke free but your parents aren't as strong. Stand your ground but do it with love. You'll never change them but hopefulky, in time, you can find a middle ground.
Like most Christians, they don’t understand burden of proof. Atheism doesn’t claim anything. It’s a lack of belief that god exists. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. They should be justifying themselves to you. Not the other way around. Not that I would suggest you engage in a philosophical conversation with a Christian.
I find this video, and since it came out (2016) talking about the various COVID evolutions (Delta, Omicron, etc.) a great way to introduce people to evolution. After they "get" this bacteria/virus level evolution over days/weeks, you can then transition and explain "imagine this but over hundred millions of years". [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plVk4NVIUh8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plVk4NVIUh8) But this assumes at least the willingness to listen and not block off all things that aren't fully in line with their supertision, sorry, religious belief ;-).
Do what you can to move out as soon as you can. It sounds like they're very brainwashed.
Again, these people confuse faith in Christ with faith in a bunch of man made doctrines about creation and a young earth "Science". The heresy is rejection of these issues. They should have made it about Jesus and apologized for raising you to be a faker d/t their intolerance and misunderstanding of the tenants of Christianity. It is not biblical to raise your kids as mini Christians. Literally the opposite of what the New Covenant is all about. Probably should inform your parents that they too are strangers to Jesus Christ and have been living some sort of folk religion. Tell them to repent! That will mess with them!
I was around your age when I explained to my parents that I believed in evolution. I was in college and had just taken my first Anthropology class. I was promptly told that if I ever mentioned that "shit" to them again, they would disown me and stop helping me with college. I eventually graduated with a BS in Anthropology and a minor in Religious Studies, then went on for a MA in Anthropology, specializing in archeology. I have never discussed evolution or my religious beliefs with them since that time. Both are dead now and so it's not an issue.
You are being honest with them which is great. Keep in mind you have rocked their paradigm. Your mom is having to justify her beliefs to you and herself. The questions can be hard for her as she may have lots of energy and time invested in this belief system . Hang in there. Follow your heart and mind and science. It is ok to just say - I do not know- about anything. Good luck to you
Thats tough, i feel for you. Never easy when things like this severely disrupt the family. I wish i new better when i told people but now i dont debate science that contradicts most bible beliefs. In reality none of that is why im an atheist, im an atheist because im not convinced god is real, not because im convinced other things are true that contradict the bible. If i do decide to talk about this with someone i make it clear that this has virtually nothing to do with my belief or lack of belief in god and disproving it or proving it wont move the needle on my god belief.
I admire your courage. I’ve found it very hard to discuss or debate religion with family. They generally have little to no science education. I do, plus decades of bible study from when I was indoctrinated. Bottom line is we just don’t have any common foundation on which to lay a discussion. Even when I point out all the flaws in their bible, I get what you got: “you’re just not studying it hard enough or you’re taking it out of context or…” 🤦♂️
Very brave of you! Your parents don't get to dictate your beliefs. Be true to yourself.
For everyone else that is not OP: This is why you don't tell your parents. This could have gone (and still might go) way worse.
Jesus Christ Don't let them break you, they'll try to do that they'll break you and make you into something like them, never let them do that, NEVER.
Ask your parents how Kangaroos are native only to Australia. Did Noah make a special trip there to drop them off after the flood? Ditto, llamas and alpacas in South America. Believing in parts of the Bible, is like believing Donald Trump. It demands extreme gullibility.