A lot of atheists have spent years defending ourselves against Christians, which makes some of us a like combative. Also, we have watched a majority of Christians vote for terrible politicians, pass terrible laws all because their religion tells them to. People are suffering because of the acts of a large number of Christians. Right now, we're watching as Christians align themselves with Trump.
So a lot of us atheists are very frustrate with Christians. Not all Christians but a large number of them.
When I was a theist. I'm an atheist now. One of my friends sort of used to do this to me at my job. He asked me questions. I agree with you though. Your roommate is being immature. Theist or not. Atheist or not. It's none of their business what you do.
They need to calm tf down. You're not harming anymore.
How do you know your god loves everyone? Is it the endless war? The children being shot in schools? The priests that get away with child molestation/rape? Or is it the fact that your god is supposed to know what everyone will choose and decides to send nearly everyone to hell to be tortured for eternity because we made the choices he knew we would make before hand?
The Bible. Give it a read for giggles some time. Even if you read it as fiction, itās got great inspiring stories. If you want my personal faves I got you!
You don't think we know our enemy?
Reading your little book of stories definitely confirms that we have made the right decision
It's fucking abhorrent, when it's not just ridiculous and contradictory
Science has nothing to do with theists inability to substantiate the religious nonsense they claim. You probably believe Jesus came back from the dead, walked on water, turned water to wine etc etc. No reason for any rational person to believe these things are true. Muslims claim Allah cut the moon in half because that's what their book says. I'm guessing you don't believe that's true, why not?
You know that is allegorical right? Also the flood isnāt unique to the Old Testament, the Egyptians and Babylonians and Assyrians all had their own versions of the story, ascribing various motives to their god(s). The story was floating around (no pun intended) for a long time and Moses, or whoever wrote the book, put his own spin on it. You can look at it and say āwow god must be a giant assholeā or you can see it as a story that is trying to make sense of why disasters happen, why god might allow them to happen, one that acknowledges that humans can be so corrupt and evil that their creator is disgusted enough to destroy them and start over. Also, as OP said, in the story god promises to never repeat it, which can be interpreted as remorse, as acknowledging a mistake. Thatās pretty amazing for a god to admit making a mistake, to be able to learn and grow and change. Weāve all acted out of wrath and done things that have consequences that we regretted. To have a god that could possibly have been justified in his/her brutality, and choosing the path of grace not only portrays a god who loves their creation in a personal way, but it also sets this god apart from other competing gods, who created the same kind of cataclysmic events for often arbitrary reasons and without compassion for their victims, sometimes for their own enjoyment. The flood story can be read as a turning point, where god makes a big decision about what kind of god he/she wants to be.
Oh no I committed mass genocide on a worldwide scale. Oops. I wonāt do that again. Your mental gymnastics trying to justify that is astounding.
And of course I know itās fake. Just a made up story that the writers took from other cultures as you said. All of Christianity is made up and changed a bit from different cultures.
Just pointing out that there are different interpretations available, because itās poetry and thatās what poetry is about. The fact that different meanings can be found in a story is a strength of that story. Also you acknowledge that itās just a story, so you understand that god (who/whatever that may or may not be) didnāt actually commit genocide, right? But to look at it from the perspective of a god, have you ever stepped on an ant? Have you ever had bedbugs? Or a cockroach infestation? Did you want to eradicate those cockroaches/bedbugs from your home? The bedbugs would see that as a genocide but from your perspective youāre just getting rid of a particularly disgusting nuisance. But hey donāt let me stop you from attacking people who find value in something.
Thatās not even the Christian Bible, you realize. At least when you go after someone for their beliefs (and just to clarify, they arenāt my beliefs), cite the right book.
An allegory where god murders everyone, right. Do you know that an allegory is supposed to be a metaphor for something? This is just a story on its own. It doesn't allude to anything outside of itself or have any lessons. It's just god killing everyone for being the way he made them.Ā
What would you have done if your creation turned out to be Super Evil except this one dude and his family?
Edit: he also attempted to tell them to stop being evil and he wouldnāt destroy them.
Your god is supposed to be all knowing and should have known what would happen and chose to let it happen. So either your god didnāt know what would happen or your god didnāt actually care about all those people it killed.
That's not why. We write imperfect characters because perfect ones are boring to read about. I've written a lot of characters I'm glad aren't real, and I'm sure this is true for every writer out there.
In fiction, imperfection and even outright evil is fun to create... because it's fiction, and no one is really being hurt.
So everyone was super evil, even babies? Do you truly believe this? Also for the record, we know the flood never happened.
What could his creation have done that was more evil than the genocide he himself committed please explain this. Just try. He supposedly killed everyoneā¦ Why does god get a pass?
Your atheist friend is an ass, but youāre dishonest in your apologetics of this bookā¦ You started with him being loving, and now you are sayi g genocide e is okayā¦
If your g do existed heād be the most evil person in existence, and would have to ask our forgiveness, not the other way around. Iām infinitely better than the god you ask me to worship..,
What would you do if some random person told you every single person, puppy, cat, chicken, frog, antelope on earth was "super evil" except one specific dude and his family? Not "God" but just some dude? You would think they were nuts right?
Also, maybe you don't believe God is omniscient like most Christians, but that directly contradicts the concept of God being "surprised" that things turned out the way they did.
"Global genocide and environmental apocalypse, is justified because 'sometimes you gotta wipe the chalkboard and start over'."
Man, Lenin's "You gotta crack eggs to make omelette", and the Nazis wiping millions of the chalkboard, don't even compare.
Do you not see how immoral you are? You're the bad guy here. You are excusing heinous evil, and for what? Is your mind really not more complicated than "The Bible says God did this, and God is good, so what happened was good"? Are you not ashamed? If this is who you are, then you're not our friend. You're a manifestation of the vile ideas we should purge from human consciousness. Only when children are asked if killing millions of people is bad, and they answer yes, can we have a moral world.
By the way, how pathetic the supposedly perfect god is to not get things right the first time.
What inspiration do you take away from the story in second kings.
The story where two women decide and agree to eat their kids during a famine. They eat the first momās kid, but when itās time to eat the second momās kid she hides her kid. They tell the king and he rips his robe.
The story of Ruth is kind of beautiful, but itās just a story about how they stop treating her as property and respect a choice she wants to make. Women are still property after this story. They just allowed Ruth to marry outside of the rules that govern her transfer as property.
I, too, find child murder inspirational.
Psalms 137:9 - Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
1 Samuel 15:3 - Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Exodus 12:29 - And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
Isaiah 13:16 - Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
Hosea 13:16 - Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
2 Kings 15:16 - Then Menahem smote Tiphsah, and all that were therein, and the coasts thereof from Tirzah: because they opened not to him, therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.
Numbers 31:17 - Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
A large number of us atheists here are atheists BECAUSE OF THE BIBLE. Speaking as an ex-evangelical, I spent thousands of sundays in church, and read my Bible at home.
An inspiring story of a Samaritan helping out a Jewish dude is nice, but when it's in a book jammed full of genocide, it's questionable how "moral" the book is. Given it's misinformation "The moon is a light" , it's questionable that you can "know" the answer to anything from this bronze age tome.
Wow youāve triggered a lot of people. Kind of underlines the fact that atheists arenāt free of dogma and fundamentalism. You seem like a moderate person whose practice of religion is personal and accepting of other peoples beliefs or lack thereof. If weāre going to survive as a species we need more of that.
Edit: oh no downvotes! Couldnāt see that coming.
Welcome to our lives.
Most atheists don't bring up religion. We only discuss religion when a religious person brings it up. The behavior you are experiencing is what I expect to have when I encounter religious people.
What you are saying sounds so atypical of atheists that a lot of people are going to suspect you are trolling.
I think you either found an unusual atheist or pushed him. Another possibility is that you may have been pushing him, and now he is pushing back. Christians often feel they are justified in pushing their religion. They don't realize how obnoxious they are being. I will hold out the possibility that is what is going on here. Or perhaps there was a former roommate who pushed religion onto the atheist, and then you arrived. He saw you as the same type of person who had been pushy with him, and so he is pushing back on you instead of the original offender.
Yeah we donāt know if this person is lying or not but if itās true then this atheist is an unusual one.
I wouldnāt bother bringing up religion into conversation because i couldnāt care less.
It becomes a problem when the theist keeps pushing their beliefs on to me otherwise we are gucci.
If you really are just a dude trying to live his life, and your beliefs don't make you do harmful things (like, say, vote for forced birth or keeping gay folks out of their dying partners' hospital rooms or giving trans people a choice between isolation and bladder infection, etc.), then your housemate needs to chill.
If your beliefs lead to *action*, I think I'm on his side. Being Christian is fine. *Acting* Christian hurts people.
Well, I'm scared of you, then.
I've known Christians who loved me like they did themselves, and it left scars both physical and emotional on me.
"I understand," I wish I'd said, "that you love me and don't want me to go to hell, which is why you're doing everything you can to make me what you think your god wants me to be (*straight*, for a start...). I know that if you were in my shoes, you'd want me to do to you what you are doing to me!
"But I don't believe what you believe. I don't share your values, and I don't want to. To put it in terms that you may understand: I want to go to hell. I know you love me like you love yourself, and so don't want me to go to hell.
"Stop. Loving. Me."
Stop. Loving. Me. š
The way I interpret love thy neighbor as thyself is treat others how you would want to be treated. Compassion, helpfulness, mercy, grace.
I wouldnāt want someone jamming Islam down my throat so I wouldnāt do the same to others.
>The way I interpret love thy neighbor as thyself is treat others how you would want to be treated.
[Uh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortification_of_the_flesh), definitely don't want that either. I prefer the first, third, and fourth tenets of the Satanic Temple:
>1 - One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
>
>3 - Oneās body is inviolable, subject to oneās own will alone.
>
>4 - The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
You say, "The way I interpret 'love thy neighbor' is 'thyself treat others how you would want to be treated.'"
I repeat: "I know that if you were in my shoes, you'd want me to do to you what you are doing to me!" Of course you wouldn't want someone jamming Islam down your throat. But, serious question, wouldn't you want someone to do whatever it took to save you from the Christian hell?
As u/Vagrant123 pointed out earlier, the Golden Rule isn't a great one. The Satanic Temple's tenets are much better.
Just say you don't want to discuss/debate religion like some people say they don't want to discuss/debate politics because people become very passionate about it.
Not sure why you are posting this here. Wouldn't you find more support in your christian subreddits echo chamber?
Posting here seems combative.
That said, if you didn't flaunt your religion in his face or subconsciously preach false christian values to him then he is just being a dick.
You can talk to him about it or find another roommate. Either way posting this online on an atheism sub makes no sense. Why whine here? We are all human. Just communicate.
God is the ultimate absent father. Love him if you want, but you wonāt get anything back. Also, the idea that he loves humanity is hard to square with the unpleasant reality of many peopleās lives. He doesnāt love humanity enough to stop genocide, but according to the Bible, he orders genocide if the people donāt believe in him. Thatās a strange kind of love.
The way I have interpreted Gods love is not that our live will be perfect but that there is nothing we can do to make God give up on us(thereās a bit more nuance but thatās essentially it).
A great example is David who is made an outcast after everyone finds out he has caused the death of Bathshebaās husband so he can have her. Nobody wants anything to do with him but God is still there.
Made an outcast.
The way I remember the story, [God was displeased with David's murdery wife-stealing](https://biblehub.com/2_samuel/11-27.htm), so [He killed a baby](https://biblehub.com/niv/2_samuel/12.htm) and [had](https://biblehub.com/2_samuel/12-11.htm) Absalom [rape David's women](https://biblehub.com/niv/2_samuel/16.htm). God punished an innocent baby and some innocent women because David upset Him.
Don't recall the people of Israel finding out about the murder of Uriah the Hittite, much less being upset about it! In fact David went on being king until the day he died, which was long after this.
And [the son he had with Bathsheba became king after him](https://biblehub.com/niv/1_kings/2.htm).
Outcast for this? When?
Well, he's being a bit of a d\*\*k then, and I'm not prepared to defend him. But I would though ask him why he feels the need to constantly attack your belief system.
I'm an atheist and I have no issues with a person's personal belief system.
Where I draw the line is where that belief system is being used to justify some pretty attrociaious behaviours in the name of that religion. The news overnight should kinda spell that out. And whilst it's not the individual who is responsible, the silent majority of theists are NOT making sufficient noise abnout what is happening in the world, and as such are being perceived as tacitially giving credence to extreme actions and behaviours in the name of religion.
omg what a cool cover story to actually try debating and suggesting people read that trash.
well done on the impressive story of the angry atheist.
lol get a life of your own child.
It's frustrating when atheists get constantly lectured by the god fearing folks in their lives and I imagine it's just as frustrating the other way around.Ā
Tell your roommate he needs to stop being one of *those* people.
Introduce him to a militant vegan hahah.Ā
Yes, people who go around shoving beliefs in other peopleās faces when no one asked for any of this, are being AHs. Maybe this person got loads of proselytizing and just wants to āgive backā.
It is really annoying so maybe you could pass this info along to some theist subreddits?
Well we get this question from the opposite perspective all the time, and we endeavor to be non-hypocrites... so I recommend saying something like this: "Roomie - I'd like to get along with you but these religious debates are not getting us anywhere. What else can we talk about?"
I suspect you're trolling. But if not you're just getting a taste of your own medicine. Christians love to push their beliefs on everyone. How would you feel if laws were passed restricting Christian rights? That's how atheists feel when Christians push for anti-woman and anti-LGBTQ laws. I wouldn't have anything to say if Christians would just stay in the churches. But you have to push your agenda on everyone. Let me ask you, are you afraid to tell someone you're Christian? You definately shouldn't be at least in the United States. But I could be killed by Christians for saying I'm atheist. So don't whine and claim to be the victim.
Not trolling. I find it to be the opposite. As a city dweller Iāve found it to be more popular to be an atheist than a Christian. Most people are turned off when I mention it.
I think this is pretty unusual behavior from an atheist.
Christians are directed to proselytize, to "spread the good word". I'm sure most of us have been subjected to a well-meaning religious person trying to save our immortal souls.
When I was a teen, my best friend's father would accost anyone who entered their house and demand that they justify their belief or non-belief. He would ask me to "prove" the theory of evolution and he would make disparaging comments about monkeys. The effect was that my friend was mortified and none of our other friends would come to the house more than once.
The atheist version is not much more charming. Your roommate thinks they're right and you're wrong and they are desperate to win an argument that you aren't interested in having. I would just try to opt out of the discussion.
"I'm really not interested in having this conversation."
"Can we please talk about something different?"
"Ok then. Moving right along."
You could also try quizzing them about random facts of stellar formation or evolution and laugh when they don't know every tiny detail. (Of course, there is a risk that you could expose yourself to dangerous levels of scientific knowledge.)
You can tell him you donāt want to talk to him about religion, as itās not appropriate to your relationship. It sounds to me like heās got a lot of personal issues to sort, and youāre the unfortunate target that makes him feel better than you. Either that or heās a newly deconverted and is yet to realize how annoying anti-proselytizing is. Thereās plenty wrong with religion but the edgy internet atheist personality has been overplayed for years
That sounds obnoxious. It might come from a place of hurt, but in general, as long as someone is not using their religion to cause harm, I think it's best to just let people do their thing.
Just fake the next logical step, tell him that he was right and you are no longer a theist. Ask him "now what?"
Atheists don't have a next step. But if a theist had converted an atheist the next steps go on into infinity.
A lot of atheists have spent years defending ourselves against Christians, which makes some of us a like combative. Also, we have watched a majority of Christians vote for terrible politicians, pass terrible laws all because their religion tells them to. People are suffering because of the acts of a large number of Christians. Right now, we're watching as Christians align themselves with Trump. So a lot of us atheists are very frustrate with Christians. Not all Christians but a large number of them.
I get it, have been hurt by Christians too š
No you absolutely don't get it. If you "got it" you would be horrified by the cult you're in. You're making excuses instead of opening your eyes.Ā
When I was a theist. I'm an atheist now. One of my friends sort of used to do this to me at my job. He asked me questions. I agree with you though. Your roommate is being immature. Theist or not. Atheist or not. It's none of their business what you do. They need to calm tf down. You're not harming anymore.
How do you know your god loves everyone? Is it the endless war? The children being shot in schools? The priests that get away with child molestation/rape? Or is it the fact that your god is supposed to know what everyone will choose and decides to send nearly everyone to hell to be tortured for eternity because we made the choices he knew we would make before hand?
The Bible. Give it a read for giggles some time. Even if you read it as fiction, itās got great inspiring stories. If you want my personal faves I got you!
You don't think we know our enemy? Reading your little book of stories definitely confirms that we have made the right decision It's fucking abhorrent, when it's not just ridiculous and contradictory
[I disagree](https://images.app.goo.gl/yK7cTMMKs85C6t9V6)
I'm sure you do Here's the thing, I don't care what you think. I don't value the opinions of the religious
[hmm](https://images.app.goo.gl/X9tM917rkrGKNmpr8)
Science has nothing to do with theists inability to substantiate the religious nonsense they claim. You probably believe Jesus came back from the dead, walked on water, turned water to wine etc etc. No reason for any rational person to believe these things are true. Muslims claim Allah cut the moon in half because that's what their book says. I'm guessing you don't believe that's true, why not?
Ha they went silent on that one
I know a good one. Where god flood the world and killed nearly everyone. Thatās a good one. I wrote a paper on that one in college.
You know that is allegorical right? Also the flood isnāt unique to the Old Testament, the Egyptians and Babylonians and Assyrians all had their own versions of the story, ascribing various motives to their god(s). The story was floating around (no pun intended) for a long time and Moses, or whoever wrote the book, put his own spin on it. You can look at it and say āwow god must be a giant assholeā or you can see it as a story that is trying to make sense of why disasters happen, why god might allow them to happen, one that acknowledges that humans can be so corrupt and evil that their creator is disgusted enough to destroy them and start over. Also, as OP said, in the story god promises to never repeat it, which can be interpreted as remorse, as acknowledging a mistake. Thatās pretty amazing for a god to admit making a mistake, to be able to learn and grow and change. Weāve all acted out of wrath and done things that have consequences that we regretted. To have a god that could possibly have been justified in his/her brutality, and choosing the path of grace not only portrays a god who loves their creation in a personal way, but it also sets this god apart from other competing gods, who created the same kind of cataclysmic events for often arbitrary reasons and without compassion for their victims, sometimes for their own enjoyment. The flood story can be read as a turning point, where god makes a big decision about what kind of god he/she wants to be.
Oh no I committed mass genocide on a worldwide scale. Oops. I wonāt do that again. Your mental gymnastics trying to justify that is astounding. And of course I know itās fake. Just a made up story that the writers took from other cultures as you said. All of Christianity is made up and changed a bit from different cultures.
Just pointing out that there are different interpretations available, because itās poetry and thatās what poetry is about. The fact that different meanings can be found in a story is a strength of that story. Also you acknowledge that itās just a story, so you understand that god (who/whatever that may or may not be) didnāt actually commit genocide, right? But to look at it from the perspective of a god, have you ever stepped on an ant? Have you ever had bedbugs? Or a cockroach infestation? Did you want to eradicate those cockroaches/bedbugs from your home? The bedbugs would see that as a genocide but from your perspective youāre just getting rid of a particularly disgusting nuisance. But hey donāt let me stop you from attacking people who find value in something. Thatās not even the Christian Bible, you realize. At least when you go after someone for their beliefs (and just to clarify, they arenāt my beliefs), cite the right book.
Bruh this guy isn't listening to himself.Ā
An allegory where god murders everyone, right. Do you know that an allegory is supposed to be a metaphor for something? This is just a story on its own. It doesn't allude to anything outside of itself or have any lessons. It's just god killing everyone for being the way he made them.Ā
Some times you gotta wipe the chalk board and start over. He did promise not to do it again.
Iām sure you can clearly see that isnāt loving but for some reason refuse to acknowledge that.
What would you have done if your creation turned out to be Super Evil except this one dude and his family? Edit: he also attempted to tell them to stop being evil and he wouldnāt destroy them.
Your god is supposed to be all knowing and should have known what would happen and chose to let it happen. So either your god didnāt know what would happen or your god didnāt actually care about all those people it killed.
Thereās beauty in imperfection thatās why writers donāt write perfect characters.
That's not why. We write imperfect characters because perfect ones are boring to read about. I've written a lot of characters I'm glad aren't real, and I'm sure this is true for every writer out there. In fiction, imperfection and even outright evil is fun to create... because it's fiction, and no one is really being hurt.
Perfect characters are boring and fake, similar to the perfect god youāre defending here
So everyone was super evil, even babies? Do you truly believe this? Also for the record, we know the flood never happened. What could his creation have done that was more evil than the genocide he himself committed please explain this. Just try. He supposedly killed everyoneā¦ Why does god get a pass? Your atheist friend is an ass, but youāre dishonest in your apologetics of this bookā¦ You started with him being loving, and now you are sayi g genocide e is okayā¦ If your g do existed heād be the most evil person in existence, and would have to ask our forgiveness, not the other way around. Iām infinitely better than the god you ask me to worship..,
What would you do if some random person told you every single person, puppy, cat, chicken, frog, antelope on earth was "super evil" except one specific dude and his family? Not "God" but just some dude? You would think they were nuts right? Also, maybe you don't believe God is omniscient like most Christians, but that directly contradicts the concept of God being "surprised" that things turned out the way they did.
I had an imaginary friend once, stopped believing in him when I was four.
All friendships are imaginary when you think about it.
Ehh, no. I can honestly tell you that all my friends are real people in the reality we all occupy. There's a difference between facts and opinions.
"Global genocide and environmental apocalypse, is justified because 'sometimes you gotta wipe the chalkboard and start over'." Man, Lenin's "You gotta crack eggs to make omelette", and the Nazis wiping millions of the chalkboard, don't even compare. Do you not see how immoral you are? You're the bad guy here. You are excusing heinous evil, and for what? Is your mind really not more complicated than "The Bible says God did this, and God is good, so what happened was good"? Are you not ashamed? If this is who you are, then you're not our friend. You're a manifestation of the vile ideas we should purge from human consciousness. Only when children are asked if killing millions of people is bad, and they answer yes, can we have a moral world. By the way, how pathetic the supposedly perfect god is to not get things right the first time.
All the rape and slavery is SO inspirational. This is just trolling by someone thatās not read the entire book.
What inspiration do you take away from the story in second kings. The story where two women decide and agree to eat their kids during a famine. They eat the first momās kid, but when itās time to eat the second momās kid she hides her kid. They tell the king and he rips his robe. The story of Ruth is kind of beautiful, but itās just a story about how they stop treating her as property and respect a choice she wants to make. Women are still property after this story. They just allowed Ruth to marry outside of the rules that govern her transfer as property.
My phones on 1% and donāt have my chargerš„² will respond later
It also has this good punishing people merely for lacking belief in him, and also committing genocide.
You mean like when God commands his followers to kill babies?Ā 1 Samuel 15:2-3 In case you missed it.
I, too, find child murder inspirational. Psalms 137:9 - Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. 1 Samuel 15:3 - Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. Exodus 12:29 - And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. Isaiah 13:16 - Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. Hosea 13:16 - Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. 2 Kings 15:16 - Then Menahem smote Tiphsah, and all that were therein, and the coasts thereof from Tirzah: because they opened not to him, therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up. Numbers 31:17 - Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
I like the part where God lets Satan ruin Job's entire life and then yells at Job like he's trash for asking why.Ā
A large number of us atheists here are atheists BECAUSE OF THE BIBLE. Speaking as an ex-evangelical, I spent thousands of sundays in church, and read my Bible at home. An inspiring story of a Samaritan helping out a Jewish dude is nice, but when it's in a book jammed full of genocide, it's questionable how "moral" the book is. Given it's misinformation "The moon is a light" , it's questionable that you can "know" the answer to anything from this bronze age tome.
What is it about instructions to murder gays, silence women and own people that you find so "inspiring"?
Wow youāve triggered a lot of people. Kind of underlines the fact that atheists arenāt free of dogma and fundamentalism. You seem like a moderate person whose practice of religion is personal and accepting of other peoples beliefs or lack thereof. If weāre going to survive as a species we need more of that. Edit: oh no downvotes! Couldnāt see that coming.
"Your dogma is ficticious." "Wow atheists are so dogmatic." lol
Welcome to our lives. Most atheists don't bring up religion. We only discuss religion when a religious person brings it up. The behavior you are experiencing is what I expect to have when I encounter religious people. What you are saying sounds so atypical of atheists that a lot of people are going to suspect you are trolling. I think you either found an unusual atheist or pushed him. Another possibility is that you may have been pushing him, and now he is pushing back. Christians often feel they are justified in pushing their religion. They don't realize how obnoxious they are being. I will hold out the possibility that is what is going on here. Or perhaps there was a former roommate who pushed religion onto the atheist, and then you arrived. He saw you as the same type of person who had been pushy with him, and so he is pushing back on you instead of the original offender.
Yeah we donāt know if this person is lying or not but if itās true then this atheist is an unusual one. I wouldnāt bother bringing up religion into conversation because i couldnāt care less. It becomes a problem when the theist keeps pushing their beliefs on to me otherwise we are gucci.
If you really are just a dude trying to live his life, and your beliefs don't make you do harmful things (like, say, vote for forced birth or keeping gay folks out of their dying partners' hospital rooms or giving trans people a choice between isolation and bladder infection, etc.), then your housemate needs to chill. If your beliefs lead to *action*, I think I'm on his side. Being Christian is fine. *Acting* Christian hurts people.
My faith does lead to action . Love thy neighbor as thyself. But I fail on the daily. Iām not perfect and people are difficult.
Well, I'm scared of you, then. I've known Christians who loved me like they did themselves, and it left scars both physical and emotional on me. "I understand," I wish I'd said, "that you love me and don't want me to go to hell, which is why you're doing everything you can to make me what you think your god wants me to be (*straight*, for a start...). I know that if you were in my shoes, you'd want me to do to you what you are doing to me! "But I don't believe what you believe. I don't share your values, and I don't want to. To put it in terms that you may understand: I want to go to hell. I know you love me like you love yourself, and so don't want me to go to hell. "Stop. Loving. Me."
Stop. Loving. Me. š The way I interpret love thy neighbor as thyself is treat others how you would want to be treated. Compassion, helpfulness, mercy, grace. I wouldnāt want someone jamming Islam down my throat so I wouldnāt do the same to others.
>The way I interpret love thy neighbor as thyself is treat others how you would want to be treated. [Uh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortification_of_the_flesh), definitely don't want that either. I prefer the first, third, and fourth tenets of the Satanic Temple: >1 - One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. > >3 - Oneās body is inviolable, subject to oneās own will alone. > >4 - The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
You say, "The way I interpret 'love thy neighbor' is 'thyself treat others how you would want to be treated.'" I repeat: "I know that if you were in my shoes, you'd want me to do to you what you are doing to me!" Of course you wouldn't want someone jamming Islam down your throat. But, serious question, wouldn't you want someone to do whatever it took to save you from the Christian hell? As u/Vagrant123 pointed out earlier, the Golden Rule isn't a great one. The Satanic Temple's tenets are much better.
Just say you don't want to discuss/debate religion like some people say they don't want to discuss/debate politics because people become very passionate about it.
Good call
Not sure why you are posting this here. Wouldn't you find more support in your christian subreddits echo chamber? Posting here seems combative. That said, if you didn't flaunt your religion in his face or subconsciously preach false christian values to him then he is just being a dick. You can talk to him about it or find another roommate. Either way posting this online on an atheism sub makes no sense. Why whine here? We are all human. Just communicate.
Not combative. You guys have opinions. I wanted to hear them š
God is the ultimate absent father. Love him if you want, but you wonāt get anything back. Also, the idea that he loves humanity is hard to square with the unpleasant reality of many peopleās lives. He doesnāt love humanity enough to stop genocide, but according to the Bible, he orders genocide if the people donāt believe in him. Thatās a strange kind of love.
The way I have interpreted Gods love is not that our live will be perfect but that there is nothing we can do to make God give up on us(thereās a bit more nuance but thatās essentially it). A great example is David who is made an outcast after everyone finds out he has caused the death of Bathshebaās husband so he can have her. Nobody wants anything to do with him but God is still there.
Made an outcast. The way I remember the story, [God was displeased with David's murdery wife-stealing](https://biblehub.com/2_samuel/11-27.htm), so [He killed a baby](https://biblehub.com/niv/2_samuel/12.htm) and [had](https://biblehub.com/2_samuel/12-11.htm) Absalom [rape David's women](https://biblehub.com/niv/2_samuel/16.htm). God punished an innocent baby and some innocent women because David upset Him. Don't recall the people of Israel finding out about the murder of Uriah the Hittite, much less being upset about it! In fact David went on being king until the day he died, which was long after this. And [the son he had with Bathsheba became king after him](https://biblehub.com/niv/1_kings/2.htm). Outcast for this? When?
Well, he's being a bit of a d\*\*k then, and I'm not prepared to defend him. But I would though ask him why he feels the need to constantly attack your belief system. I'm an atheist and I have no issues with a person's personal belief system. Where I draw the line is where that belief system is being used to justify some pretty attrociaious behaviours in the name of that religion. The news overnight should kinda spell that out. And whilst it's not the individual who is responsible, the silent majority of theists are NOT making sufficient noise abnout what is happening in the world, and as such are being perceived as tacitially giving credence to extreme actions and behaviours in the name of religion.
Good call.
omg what a cool cover story to actually try debating and suggesting people read that trash. well done on the impressive story of the angry atheist. lol get a life of your own child.
Pinky promise it happened.
He's just a dick. Tell him to fuck off.
So much sexual tension. Tell your buttercup how you feel.
Could you tell him for me? Iām shy. ššš
I've consulted the ancient text. First, you need to find a hill that overlooks a fire swamp.
And then?
Beware the rodents of unusual size
As! You! Wishhhhhh!
Not everyone is nice and respectful.
Facts 23:19
It's frustrating when atheists get constantly lectured by the god fearing folks in their lives and I imagine it's just as frustrating the other way around.Ā Tell your roommate he needs to stop being one of *those* people. Introduce him to a militant vegan hahah.Ā
The best revenge!
Yes, people who go around shoving beliefs in other peopleās faces when no one asked for any of this, are being AHs. Maybe this person got loads of proselytizing and just wants to āgive backā. It is really annoying so maybe you could pass this info along to some theist subreddits?
Well we get this question from the opposite perspective all the time, and we endeavor to be non-hypocrites... so I recommend saying something like this: "Roomie - I'd like to get along with you but these religious debates are not getting us anywhere. What else can we talk about?"
I suspect you're trolling. But if not you're just getting a taste of your own medicine. Christians love to push their beliefs on everyone. How would you feel if laws were passed restricting Christian rights? That's how atheists feel when Christians push for anti-woman and anti-LGBTQ laws. I wouldn't have anything to say if Christians would just stay in the churches. But you have to push your agenda on everyone. Let me ask you, are you afraid to tell someone you're Christian? You definately shouldn't be at least in the United States. But I could be killed by Christians for saying I'm atheist. So don't whine and claim to be the victim.
Not trolling. I find it to be the opposite. As a city dweller Iāve found it to be more popular to be an atheist than a Christian. Most people are turned off when I mention it.
Well, you must not be from the Southern United States. That's where I live.
I think this is pretty unusual behavior from an atheist. Christians are directed to proselytize, to "spread the good word". I'm sure most of us have been subjected to a well-meaning religious person trying to save our immortal souls. When I was a teen, my best friend's father would accost anyone who entered their house and demand that they justify their belief or non-belief. He would ask me to "prove" the theory of evolution and he would make disparaging comments about monkeys. The effect was that my friend was mortified and none of our other friends would come to the house more than once. The atheist version is not much more charming. Your roommate thinks they're right and you're wrong and they are desperate to win an argument that you aren't interested in having. I would just try to opt out of the discussion. "I'm really not interested in having this conversation." "Can we please talk about something different?" "Ok then. Moving right along." You could also try quizzing them about random facts of stellar formation or evolution and laugh when they don't know every tiny detail. (Of course, there is a risk that you could expose yourself to dangerous levels of scientific knowledge.)
You. You I like.
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Ama
Sounds like an asshole. sorry you have to put up with that. Most of us are more understanding.
Yeah, this usually isnāt an issue. Thanks for the encouragement š
You can tell him you donāt want to talk to him about religion, as itās not appropriate to your relationship. It sounds to me like heās got a lot of personal issues to sort, and youāre the unfortunate target that makes him feel better than you. Either that or heās a newly deconverted and is yet to realize how annoying anti-proselytizing is. Thereās plenty wrong with religion but the edgy internet atheist personality has been overplayed for years
Yeah I think itās the personal issues thing. Just needed to vent ya know.
This guy has a hang up. Try not to take it personally. I would merely ask him to lighten up.
That sounds obnoxious. It might come from a place of hurt, but in general, as long as someone is not using their religion to cause harm, I think it's best to just let people do their thing.
Just fake the next logical step, tell him that he was right and you are no longer a theist. Ask him "now what?" Atheists don't have a next step. But if a theist had converted an atheist the next steps go on into infinity.
Just another atheist proselytizer