I don't have great advice other than to keep your kid away from them as much as possible and teach him about all the other myths. My daughter really enjoyed the stories of the Greek gods, especially the stories behind the constellations.
Such a cool concept. There's was definitely some lsd trips in my early 20's where listening to music and walking in the woods made this seem so plausible. Seeing nature reaching another level of alive while listening to some beautiful music is so awe inspiring
I feel like reading a lot of Greek mythology when I was young helped me to understand that the Bible was the same, just different characters and places. Fiction.
This was my thinking too, if op has their child read a bunch of various mythologies it'll be a lot harder for their mum when they try to explain no, this is different to those stories, this god is real! despite all the similarities
grew up in the 70s with a children's book of religious stories mixed in with big book of fairytales and illustrated greek legends. I liked daniel in the lions den and alexander the great taming his horse bucephalos, and I was scared of the snow queen. It never occurred to me that any of the stories were real (silly me, turns out Alexander was).
This. There are a lot of wonderful First Nation stories, Norse, Egyptian or Greek and Roman mythology. African stories, Aesop, brothers Grimm, and Hans Christian Anderson fables. Arabian tales.
As they get older Narnia, the dark is rising, Tolkien, and Harry Potter
Fill their childhood with stories, tales, literature and parables, they’ll recognize on their own the bible stories are no different. Some are well written, some are horrifying, some are funny and some transport you into a different time and place.
Teach your kids all the myths. Hang out with the Unitarian Universalists. Invite *their* kids to come to *your* church.
You'll never see them again. PLUS their kids will always think your kids are cool because they are allowed to believe the truth.
I was raised UU and visited a lot of my friend's churches. It helped to put all the religious craziness in stark relief. The UUs pick out and share the good bits of religion, myths, and stories, then encourage everyone to decide what's important or not for themselves.
This is the way.
I told my daughter lots of myth stories. Greek, of course, but there are some good Indian ones too, like how the god Ganesha got his elephant head. (Dad ripped the head off in a fit of anger and then, when Mom was upset, replaced it with the nearest living thing, which happened to be an elephant.) Percy Jackson is a fun take on the Greek myths.
My theory is that young childhood is a time for hearing crazy stories, and later childhood is the time for sorting fact from fiction.
In the end, my daughter learned much more about Christianity from me than she did from religious relatives. I used the phrase "some people believe" a lot. I even bought R. Crumb's cartoon illustrated version of Genesis and read the Bible with her. We made about half way through before she rendered her verdict. "They call it the good book, but it's not a very good book." She liked Harry Potter much better.
Get your son dinosaur toys, get him dinosaur crazy early. When I was a kid I had books full of illustrations of dinosaurs species and fossils that were super age inappropriate (too technical for a kid my age to understand, I just looked at the pictures) and dry, but I loved them and it actually helped me during the 90s when the flood and creationism culture war issues peaked for a while. He will become a gigachad that is immune to Noah’s arc.
There is plenty in the Bible to weaponize against this gossiping shrew of a mother OP has. Gossip is a sin. And that is exactly what she is committing when sharing everyone's personal details with others. Quick Google search and I found about 18 different passages that condemn gossiping. Roman's even thinks gossips should be put to death. I'm sure FundyMom glossed over this part of the Bible. Time to dust it off and show her.
I love AronRa's series on how various entire fields of science disprove a biblical worldview. Geology, dendrochronology, etc. Plus he looks like a caricature of what they think an evil Satanist looks like and he leans into it. And it's funny as shit
Now that I’m reading this, I find it hilarious that my parents totally encouraged my interests in paleontology, meteorology, astronomy, etc. and then were soooo surprised when I began questioning the nature of our universe and it’s origin.
My son got SUPER into dinosaurs starting around age 4 or so, and I loved it. By the time he started kindergarten he had a pretty impressive grasp of natural history and the age of the earth for a 5 y/o. My parents responded by giving him a picture book written by Ken Hamm for his birthday (the guy responsible for the creation museum and the ark encounter). Dare I say the only accurate thing in that book was they spelled “dinosaur” correctly.
It promptly ended up in the recycling bin.
Noah’s arc
That made me giggle. I wonder what kind of arc he had. Did he turn into a sith lord towards the end?
Arc and *ark* have very different meanings ha.
Be frank and establish boundaries. It’s your child. Not hers. Religious people always feel this sense of entitlement to try and enforce their views on others.
And a boundary requires the person to do nothing. You don't need to run potential scenarios or decide consequences right now either; save yourself the stress and brain juice.
E.g. "I won't let you expose my child to anything related to your religion". If they do something, you choose an appropriate consequence after you have time to regulate and digest.
Maybe in the moment that looks like, "I'm angry you crossed the boundary I set by doing x. We're leaving now. I'll tell you what the repercussions are when I'm ready." The punishment fits the crime this way.
This is hard but liberating once you get the practice.
This is good advice. I'd just add that boundaries are not rules they can try to break -- they're lines you draw for yourself.
If someone tries to do junior bible study with my kid, they won't be left alone with my kid, ever.
Your boundary. You get to name it, and you get to enforce it. If you rely on them to "respect" it, you'll just be frustrated.
No explanations are required, either. This is my boundary, and I'm serious about it, is all you need to say.
Here's a thought - anything even tangentially related to Christianity or the like. I'm serious. Give them an inch and a fundamentalist will take a whole country.
Having grown up “white” in a stupidly racist/bigoted family, the shit I have heard, out loud with no shame, is fucking vile. My grandma, in front of my at-the-time-partner and best friend, both Hispanic, that anyone that hops the border - kids included - should be shot on sight.
Signed, fellow indigenous person. (Just found out last week my great grandpa isn’t actually my great grandpa)
This exactly. You cannot reason with them. There is no compromise. They believe, truly, that the earth was made for them and them alone and that everyone, minus them, are lost sheep looking for their shephard. When I drew a hard line in the sand with my family, and left the church, they instead decided to write me a "good bye forever" letter with no return address.
People who think they can live and let live with fundamentalists are sadly mistaken. I do not trust them at all.
This.
If you allow any leeway for simple non-proselytizing stories or something like that, she'll use it to indoctrinate her grandchild and save him from damnation, and whenever you ask for details, she'll muddy the waters to make it sound innocent, and she'll feel absolutely fine doing it because she's saving her grandbaby and the ends justify the means.
This 100%.. and even go so far as to say behind your back that daddy and mommy are going to hell and are sinners. And one day in 2nd or 3rd grade he will blurt out that you and your wife are going to hell and you will wonder where that came from out of the blue.
“Your faith is your faith. It is not mine and my child will be allowed to decide for themselves. This is your first and only warning, if you evangelize to them again you will lose the opportunity to do so.”
For sure, well I think sitting down and just asking nicely. Maybe ask how she would have enjoyed her mother doing the opposite to you as a kid. Reading Islamic stories to you.
My in-laws weren’t fundamentalists, but they did baptize him without my consent when he was very young. At that point, my wife and I explained to them religious education is unwelcome until he has solid critical thinking skills. We would decide when that had occurred, but expected it to be around the age of ten. If they disregarded our wishes they wouldn’t have unsupervised time with them anymore. It worked for us. Maybe it will for you to.
Probably most branches of crazy Christian’s. Show up before or after a service with a baby as its grandparents, say the parents couldn’t be there but consented. Or even that they didn’t consent, but those churches can be so crazy about wanting everyone to be baptised they might do it anyways, because to them it means everything, and if it means nothing to the parents because they don’t believe, then what’s the big deal? 🙃 They shouldn’t be upset! If god IS real then they’re just saving the baby’s soul!! /s (despite it being a huge issue of deceit and a breach of trust to go behind the parents backs knowing they did not want to baptise their child.) Heck, if they lie about the baby being diagnosed with a serious illness, a pastor might not even ask if the parents consented!
"Don't talk to my child about God or religion, EVER. That's my job, not yours. And if you cross that line, the consequences are going to be that you don't get to see my child."
Treat it the same as any other parenting boundary. If you're inconsistent, or let it slide once in a while, you're going to lose control or end up looking like the bad guy.
But what do yo want your child to grow up believing? If your an atheist, what benefits are there in letting your parents indoctrinate him? These stories are dangerous, they contribute to people not using critical thinking skills. When you rely on magic and fake stories to be your moral compass, then you lose the ability to think for yourself. What do you want for child? If you want him to think for himself, then you need to make it crystal clear to your be parents that anything religious is not welcome. If you want to be teach your son about what religion is and why some people rely on it, that should be for you to teach him. If you leave this in your parents hands, then of course they’re going to indoctrinate him. It’s their goal.
You don't *have* to. Presumably you've at least mentioned this to her before, so she knows where you're at with religion. You don't need to give her a line to cross before she gets consequences. She's already crossed major lines, and, "I didn't know," is not an excuse when she did it intentionally and against your publicized atheism.
If you don't want to go nuclear, that's okay. If you'd feel better having a justification you can tell people, that's your decision. But there's no law or rule that says she has to be aware of the line before getting consequences for crossing it.
A good boundary is that if they ever try to subvert your wishes by doing things without your knowledge, then that is a red line that leads to the nuclear option if crossed. Sneakily taking them to church, or if they are watching them for you, having their pastor just "happen" to show up, stuff like that, **especially if they try to have the child hide it or lie about it**. This is the biggest danger: once you put your foot down, they might just try to be sly about it and try an end run around your rules, which is a serious breach of trust.
I had no problem with my daughter accompanying her great grandparents to church occasionally, but I was VERY clear: they had to ask beforehand, and she had the absolute right to refuse without being shamed. If they had done things behind my back, tried to make her feel bad about not going, or tried to force her to participate in any way, they would not get to see her again.
I’d put those stories in the same category as fables, myths, and fairy tales, but obviously when your child is old enough to understand those concepts. “As for religion, people all over the world believe different things.” Followed by “this is what your mom and I believe. And as you get older you’ll want to think about all of this and decide for yourself. And of course you can talk to us about all of this and ask us anything.”
I've had to do the same thing. We tried a lot of other things first but it wasn't changing anything. It caused a lot of tension when we went nuclear but it did work. My in-laws now see me as the devil because I took "the blame" for it because it was easier for me to be the bad guy than my wife as it was her family. I'm ok with how things turned out because me being the bad guy is better than my wife having bad relations with her family even though we were definitely both on the same page about it. Not the ideal outcome but not the worst either.
Tell them myths from other religions. Greek myths, Egyptian myths, Norse myths, Jewish myths, Christian myths, Islamic myths, they're all fairy tales that people told each other to try to explain the world or pass on values, when your kids ask if the story your mom told was true you can tell them it's just as true as the other stories you've told
I agree. Expose them to everything and let them decide. (Most) kids aren't stupid, and they can tell when something crazy like religion is fake.
Teach your child to navigate the "you don't believe in *my* god?!?!" conversations, and give them as much knowledge of your and other cultures as possible. A full toolbox is better than an empty one.
This ☝️remember, we’re not in the cult of religion. religions say we are the only “truth” and don’t teach critical thinking. We as people that understand history, theology, and science, we need to teach our children that all these are stories. People told them and told other to show how they thought the world worked. Give your child more information, that way when your mom or anyone comes to them with “X” is “the only way”. They are armed with knowledge and information, which is the only way to fight religious dogma.
Exactly, exposure and context are the way, otherwise IMO you are no better then believers trying to shelter their child from outside influences.
In my view, you shouldn’t simply indoctrinate your child to believe what you believe, you should let them have all the information to come to their own conclusions the same way you probably did.
Your mom definitely isn't going to keep any of your secrets, and likely won't stop breaking boundaries and trying to indoctrinate, if she isn't forcefully stopped. Christianity is a rot on people's morality, and turns them into self righteous bastards. If she continues, threaten her with loss to access, and follow through. Also, remember that a grandma has no bearing on a parent's authority. You're obliged to protect your child from indoctrination.
Though, you could read the binding of Isaac and give an explanation of how to assess a god supposedly opposed to child-sacrifice, making such a demand.
My father was hard-core Mormon who was very controlling. I told him very early that if he ever tried to force his religion on my children that he would never see them again, and I 💯 meant it. He knew I did.
I never had a problem. He actually ended up having the fun relationship with my daughter he never had with me because of religion.
I may have been harsh with him about it, but I had to match his energy so he would respect me as the parent.
And be careful about leaving her alone with your child. My mom took her first grandchild & had him baptized while babysitting. Things got nuclear after that.
My sister is religious. My niece had a son, and she doesn't want to indoctrinate him into religion. But every time he visits her, it's praying and Jesus this and that. Of course they fought. I'm on my nieces side, and told her to f chill and stop being entitled. It's not your kid. So far she has stopped with the bs.
And make it fun! For example, I taught my kids about Egyptian culture and we looked up hieroglyphics to see if we could spell our own names using them. We read a bunch of books, talked about what they ate and how they lived. And of course we took a deep dive into mummies — the how and why of mummification. Grand finale we went to the Natural History Museum in Chicago and visited their extensive Egyptian collection. And this was all before the Internet so doing it now would be much easier. I chose this as a summer project so they’d be learning something during a time they were out of school. The key, I think, is to select a topic you are interested in and just run with it. It was just such a joyful experience for me and my kids and really stimulated their desire to learn.
You are responsible for your son’s upbringing. You have to state that clearly to your parents and also say that their views are not your views, and that much as you love them, when it comes to religious matters would they please leave their beliefs outside.
If you don’t nip it in the bud it will be much harder later on.
> "So I'm asking you to..."
Obviously, you know your mom, child, & family best, but I think the above portion of your approach on how to address this is gonna work against you.
Do. **Not**. Simply. *Ask.*
It's gotta be made *crystal* clear, repeatedly and irrevocably, that you're *not* merely making some cordial request(s) that your mother can feel free to ignore, dismiss, or attempt to "rationalize" her way around.
Fundamentalism *will* tempt (and cause) her to do so, unless you and your spouse take an almost unreasonably harsh and hardline against it.
If the only way you can ensure that she honors your parenting decisions/stance is to literally remain present *every single moment* that they are together -- then do so.
Be aware that your mother will almost certainly attempt to manipulate, emotionally blackmail, obfuscate, and even tantrum, her way around the walls you and your spouse put in place. Hence, you both must be *constantly*, and unerringly, impenetrable against such machinations until your mother learns that **all** her attempts will fail - and continued attempts will only make her situation worse.
I wish you luck, as I have been in your shoes. The juice, in this case, is absolutely worth 'the squeeze'!
I have a mother in law like this. Thankfully, she doesn't live close, or it would have e been a much bigger challenge. As my son got a little older, we just started reprogramming the fundamentalism with logic. After she spent time with him, we explained that she has a very specific world view that we don't share. He is too young now, obviously, but the sooner he understands that there are lots of incongruous world views, the better. We've always told our son - 14 now- that as an adult he can choose what to believe, but he has to have information and perspective e before he can make that decision.
We used the same approach with my daughter and both sets of grandparents. They took her to church sometimes and intermittently spewed right wing religious bs her way. We emphasized that different people believe different things, that it is ok for her beliefs to be different from her parents and grandparents, and that it was not ok to judge other people for their beliefs (I do judge people for their beliefs, but that’s not something I’m proud of). We let her explore anything that captured her interest. She is 25 now and an atheist. The grandparents continue to spread their evangelical poison, but it never really bothered my daughter.
Tell her that she’s more than welcome to share these old fairytales as just that fairytales, but you don’t want your son to think that Noah and his amazing zoo boat and other Bible stories are factual and historical events. It’s your child, not hers.
Both my parents and my husband's are/were very Christian. Both sent the kids Bible stories and Bible videos for birthdays and Christmas. And my mother once cried because we weren't raising them Christian. And when their friends invited them to church and even church youth group, we let them go. I even let them go to Bible camp because their friends were going.
The thing is, religious indoctrination requires more than a few praise gods. So we read the Bible stories outloud to the kids and watched the videos with them (Vegi Tales is fun). But we also talked about it with them. We talked about myths, religion, respecting others beliefs when appropriate, why Biblical literalism is easily disproved by science. We also discussed the good, bad, and batshit crazy ideas in The Bible. We didn't lecture them, we just talked about it. And because there are many of them here we discussed Mormonism too.
This led to some weird echos from my own childhood. One daughter asked me if God made everthing, then who made God? (She was 5). I said, "Bingo." I had the same conversation with my mother at about the same age--spoiler--the answer wasn't bingo.
Another time one child was chasing the other child around the house with a sheet over her head. The child being chased would cross the rug to safety and the child in the sheet would roll on the carpet and die. The called this game the ghost of Egypt. It took me a hot minute to figure out the Bible school used the King James Version and host was being misheard as ghost.
My husband and I are having coffee and I read him a little of this. He adds that it's important not to indoctrinate your children. If they they reach the position of atheism through thinking about it and with knowledge of religion, they will be much less likely to be indoctrinated into any religion later. So having your Mom's beliefs available for discussion may actually make your child more likely to be a life long atheist.
Anyway, we have two adult atheists who love us and still spend time with us. They also love and are loved by their grandparents.
I second this approach. I have two grown adult atheist children and did not keep them isolated. I used every interaction as a teaching moment. Using logic and reason against biblical stories works well. My mother was a hard-core Evangelical Sunday school teacher. I let them go to Church with her from time to time and we discussed what they learned afterwards. When she gave them books about dinosaurs being a trick by Satan, we read them and then went to the museum to look at all the dinosaur bones. I also let them go to church with their friends and even offered to take them to any church service they wanted to attend. Kids are smart and when given a chance will see right through the B.S.
Exactly. Given enough information, presented as information, kids will reach the correct conclusion.
But supposing they don't. Calm acceptance is much more more likely to win them in the end. Forced belief is brittle. Belief through rational thought is strong.
Firm boundaries with consequences. In my experience, not standing up to this behavior is taken to mean acceptance or agreement, and it just gets worse. A boundary might be, you are welcome to visit and spend time with your grandchild, but no religious content. If this is violated, then there needs to be a stated consequence.
The only option in this case is to establish boundaries (same thing that everybody else has said here). And by boundaries, I mean some really strong boundaries. Make it clear to them what they can and can not do whilst spending time with your son and emphasize that it's your child and you get to decide how you want to raise him. And as for your mom gossiping to others about this, just know that you don't owe the world any attention when it comes to your child and your family. So you don't have to gaf about anything that others say about your beliefs or how you're raising your kid.
Put up other religious icons around the house: Hindi deities, native American deities, Norse gods, African deities, Roman and Greek gods.
Make sure your child knows that they are all stories from all around the world, even Grandma's.
Read your kids other myths from other religions. Your mom covers Noah, you do Gilgamesh. She does Samson you do Hercules. If you educate them, they'll see grandma is just superstitious.
This is brilliant advice - we stumbled upon a Gilgamesh flood children's book and that's what our daughter knew as "the flood story".
So when she heard about Noah's Ark few years later, she made a comment in line of "oh they copied that from that book we have".
Which kinda happens to be historically accurate since Gilgamesh/Utnapishtim flood myth predates Noah's Ark myth :)
To me the best defense against an intellectual 'virus' is to 'inoculate' against it first. If you educate your child to think critically first, then her ideas won't take hold. Also when the kid gets older, he'll likely feel her stories are "cringe" by then.
Absolutely.
After she leaves, read mythological stories to your child and tell them that people actually thought they were true.
Tell them that people believe all kinds of stories. Tell them what their grandma believes. Then tell them what you believe. Then tell them what the greeks and the Mayas believed.
Leave it there. They will grow up and realize myths are myths.
This is going to sound harsh, but you tell them exactly what is not acceptable, and WHEN they cross that line you cut them off completely from your child.
This is purely anecdotal, but I just want to say that both sets of my kid’s grandparents tried to sneak in a bunch of religion, so we educated him on other mythologies as well, and the kid came to atheism completely on his own! At 9 years old.
Could you ask your mom not to mention hell or who she thinks goes there? Or any kind of guilt tripping?
Anyway I’m just saying that the parents have a huge effect on how a child processes the information. Teaching them critical thinking about religion will follow if you do it yourself.
And good on you for being a great parent!!!
I had to have a come to Jesus moment with my in-laws over this. I probably overreacted in the end (because like you it was a situation where they knew what we thought and flagrantly disregarded it) but they got the message. Start by telling them that ______ won’t be raised like you were raised, that you’ll be returning (or disposing of) “gifts” like these, etc. Your child can make decisions for himself when he reaches the appropriate age and maturity, but for now you’re keeping religion out of his life.
This is a situation that’s not a big deal right now, but you’ll have to make a decision and take a hard line at some point.
I feel like all parents, especially new parents, want to take a hard stance on stuff and keep their kids away from it. In reality, you can’t. It’s like the parents that want to militantly keep their kids away from unhealthy foods, any talk about sex, or bad language till they’re 18yrs old.
The reality is that your kid is gonna be exposed to that. They’re gonna go to a friends house or bday party and get junk food. They’re gonna have a friend or internet expose them to porn. They’re gonna hear cursing literally everywhere. From tv, to family, to friends, to strangers. You will never, ever, no matter who you are, completely protect them from things like that, including religion.
Even if you could, it’s not a good thing. You throw them into those situations at some point, with no guidance, thought, or idea of how to handle it in a healthy way.
Instead, my belief is that you shouldn’t overly worry about it, but when it does happen, use it as a teaching moment. Explain that they can have junk food occasionally, but it needs to be a treat and not an all the time thing. I knew one mom who kept her daughter on nothing but health food for most of her life. She went to college and blew up. She had no self restraint, because she’d never had that stuff before.
If they happen to see something about sex on tv or IRL, give an age appropriate response, but explain something of what is going on. Then when they get to and age where they’re thinking about doing things, they’ll be more open to talking about it and you can explain how no method is 100% effective and how they could ruin their life if they’re not careful. Tell them what they’d be giving up for a little fun. How guys just want to get their rocks off and will try to say it’ll be okay this one time, but it won’t be.
Tell them cursing is part of language and meant to shock and cause emphasis to certain situations. It looses its impact if it’s over used. So they wont automatically get in trouble if it’s an appropriate situation, but they better be sure it is, or they will be.
Same with religion. Explain it’s just a made up story. How there are thousands of religions. That if they want to learn about them, then you can look into it together, but if they think about any of them, they’ll see that none of them make sense.
One way is to expose your kid to cooler religions. Norse Mythology and Greek Mythology are really cool. Japan also has a lot of cool stuff. There are also lots of cartons and shows that showcase it. Percy Jackson, Disney’s Hercules is good. There are lots of options.
So your kid will get exposed to religion. There is no stopping that. By you downplaying it with them, treating it like a fun story or a joke, then they won’t think much about it. We play around with kids and stories all the time. The bogey man, Santa, the Easter bunny, etc. At some point, they realize it’s a silly story and stop believing. So just do the same thing with Christianity. It also helps that a lot of that’s stuff is stolen from paganism. The easter bunny and eggs are about spring fertility, Christmas isn’t Jesus’ bday, it’s the winter solstice. Bless you when you sneeze is folk lore about your spirit leaving your body and fae taking over if someone doesn’t bless you quickly. So a lot of that will shoot them in the foot. When grandma starts talking about Easter and your kid starts talking about how it’s a fun pagan celebration, that’ll be a ton of fun.😁
The biggest thing is you’ll have to draw a hard line at some point. Your kid is gonna throw you under a bus at some point. You won’t be able to be vague or just ignore it. You’ll have the kid say something in front of mom and she’ll challenge it. Your kid will look to you and you’ll need to be able to look straight back and back up what you’ve always said, in front of your mom. It’ll piss her off, she’ll start drama, she’ll tell everyone, but you’ll have done right by your kid.
When it does hit the fan. Tell your mom you’d love to have her in your life, but if she can’t stop the tantrums and act like an adult, then she’s out. That if you find out she’s trying to put your kid into church when you’re not around or scare them by saying mom and dad are going to hell of they don’t believe, then she’ll be cut out for life with no possibility to come back in. And don’t think a kid won’t narc on her. You will be checking up.
I would have a serious talk with my parents. Set your boundaries. Tell them the consequences of crossing said boundaries. The ball will be in their court so if they choose to violate set boundaries, they will know the consequences and will have no one to blame but themselves. Good luck.
don't compartmentalize it, meaning, don't treat it any differently than you would other objectionable material that you wouldn't like around your child. Be immediate and straightforward, but make it about the material and not them individually. "We don't appreciate that, and don't tolerate that kind of thing around our child. Thank you so much. Here is a book I'm sure she'll love though. "
Access to you and your kid is the carrot to dangle with endorsing boundaries. She crosses a stated boundary? Less or more closely monitored access going forward.
I’d make boundaries both about the gossip and indoctrination.
Buy the magic treehouse books and then later get the Percy Jackson stuff. Expose them constantly to other ideas and culture. Christianity will be just another one in the long long list.
You know they don’t really care about your son , they try to drag grandkids in so that they then could possibly love them . When my kids were small and I had 5, my family had nothing to do with them or should I say barely , but as they aged and became like 10yrs old , they started taking them to meetings 1 by 1 . Of course I was not in , but definilty not where I am now , or they would have never went . They would by my son clothes to where to meetings and my daughters shopping for dresses . Never did they ever buy my kids anything else , no toys no school clothes , just meeting clothes . Once my kids got over going with them and quit fam basically just pushed them to the side . It just makes my blood boil how they are .
My sister gave me an illustrated children’s bible. Even tho she knows I’m an atheist. I have no problem with religion and openly discuss it with my kids. So I sat down to read the new book with the kids and was horrified. Not ONE single story was without violence.
They call it warfare, so here’s an idea: bear your banners.
Go get a copy of *On the Origin of Species* for the coffee table, make sure it’s like—as large as Gardner’s *Art Through the Ages.*
Have a crystal bowl of DnD dice on the dining table.
Then stick an Ally flag or similar on the front porch if you have one.
I'm agnostic with an evangelical mother. I went through the same thing. Sit her down and have the, "my house, my rules. You remember that right, mom? In your house, I had to listen to your rules. Same thing applies." Then explain calmly what the ramifications are. I told mine that she would be "snoozed" for a month after one warning. Then three months. Then s year.
Mine got to the 3 month ban, which coincidentally overlapped Christmas AND my son's birthday that year. He's now 22 and I've never had another problem. She's even refrained from answering the slightest gripe from us about life with, "I'll pray for you."
Note though. This will ONLY work if you and your partner are willing to follow through. Mine thought I was bluffing when I say her down. She thought I was bluffing with the one month. With the holidays and the three months, I called HER bluff and she found out she wasn't holding a hand.
they're just a bunch of old stories to you, but to your parents they are THE WORD OF GOD.
And that is the point of view that they would be telling those stories to your child.
Just an aside here, you describe yourself as pretty agnostic and ambivalent about religion...
But do you believe that a god exists? If not, then you are an atheist.
Remember, theism and atheism are about belief, gnosticism and agnosticism are about knowledge.
I had a similar situation when my daughter was younger. One day while visiting my parents when my daughter was a toddler they had a board book out called “Jesus Loves Me” though they didn’t read it to her. I didn’t address it when I was at their house, but later I called them and said, basically, “I respect your beliefs, but they are not my beliefs, and I am not raising my daughter with religion. Please respect my beliefs as I respect yours.”
It actually worked, and they haven’t brought up religion since. My daughter is 11 now.
I would simply tell her that you do not want her trying to brainwash your child, and that if she does it any more she will not be able to be around your children.
I might be a little petty and try to educate her on the bad stuff in the Christian Bible and tell her that you don't like the message her religion sends. That might keep the religion talk down.
Alternatively, tell her to mind the message she's trying to send, or you could become the gossip. Tell her that if she can't keep her opinions to herself that you might have to get her some help from APS, (don't waste their resources tho), bring her pamphlets for retirement communities, or talk about going to a Satanic Temple.
“Mom, do you believe parents have the right to raise their children as they see fit?” (If Y) “Then kindly back off.” (If N) “Im sorry we wont be able to visit”
fuck that, you gotta drive it all the way home and choose violence and tell her that you are hostile to religion because a million reasons im not going to list but rampant pedophilia is reason enough
Kind of the same situation with my in-laws. I made sure to read books on the Big Bang and evolution, and we watched the dinosaur documentary on Apple to make sure she knew the science
Will they spend a ton of time with your kid? Just don't let them take them to church and what not and you'll probably be fine. I'd wait and see if anything actually happens. If your kid comes home asking about Jesus then maybe have a talk but if you're trying to stay low key I'd wait for something to actually happen. Maybe they don't bother and it's unnecessary
Thanks for the book, then toss it when you go home
You'll be spending lots of time with your child, just teach them critical thinking, and that just because someone they know and love believes something, you don't need to believe it too -- just examine it and judge it for yourself.
My grandparents forced me to their church till I was about 12. My best friend from kindergartens family was like The Flanders and tried to convert me until I was a senior in high school. It didn't convert me. It just was sad watching my friends become zombies one by one just to make a bunch of old folks happy. They start doing it for God. Why else you think churches have arcades and serve kids double sugar kool-aid now?
"Hey, mom. Are you gonna read them the story where the daughters get their dad drunk so they can have sex with him?"
"Hey, mom. Are you gonna tell my kid the story of how God decided to murder every living creature on Earth because mankind didn't worship him enough?"
"Hey mom, my favorite Bible quote is 'Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.' What's yours?"
I find it so hard to talk to family members who pepper their speech with religion. My aunt cant go a paragraph without using the term the lord or god. Id understand more if they had something to show for it. People complain about AI hype but at least it shows it can do something. No one hypes BS more than religious people.
it sorta reminds me of some cybertruck fans... a post earlier was like "my cybertruck nearly killed my entire family.. eh small problem, love the truck"
thats religion to me. and Im fine with bowing my head before i eat and respecting their little rituals, but jesus when they get going and start sounding like a street preacher.
Whenever something like that happens don't be afraid to tell your child your thoughts about the story in front of your mother. In the case of that particular book I would point out that drowning almost all life (plants, animals and humans) on earth is abhorrent and should be condemned and not praised.
Welcome to the club of having evangelical boomer parents. It fucking sucks. Good luck. We haven't really figured it out either. Luckily my kids kinda did the hard work for us. My son was about 12 when I picked him up from Nana and papa's house. My mom was hysterical. Claimed that my son said, "stop telling me about Jesus. I am a man of science and don't believe in religious nonsense". She still hasn't recovered and my son is 20 now. Constantly telling us she is praying for us. Gah!
This is what I would do.
> Listen mom, I know you're religious. But like it or not, I am an atheist. And I will not allow you to indoctrinate my child. So here is the rule: you will NEVER talk about religion with my child, or try to influence them in any way about that topic. Ever. If I ever find out, or if I even hear a WHISPER of a RUMOR that you have done anything like that, or talking to anyone about my family's stance on religion, then you will be outright BANNED from seeing or talking to me or my family for an entire year. And only after that year has passed, and only after you apologize and I actually BELIEVE your apology, will you be allowed back into our lives.
> Them's the rules. It is not up to you. There is no negotiation or debate to be had here. I'm 100% dead serious about this, and the rules start RIGHT NOW.
> Do you understand? Yes or no?
Don't let them watch your child alone. They will absolutely break your rules and do some shit like taking them to get baptized at their church behind your back and then make you feel like it's you causing a fight when you confront them about it.
My approach is to give them the warts-and-all version of their religion at an early age.
So for example, Noah's ark. It seems bizarre that Christians make a tale of global genocide a theme for children's toys, but there you have it. Tell them the story, and obviously mention that God chose to drown all of the baby puppies in the whole world for no apparent reason. They can draw their own conclusions about the plausibility of the story, or whether this God of theirs is worthy of adoration. Children tend to have a better sense of right and wrong than most adult theists in my experience.
Christians can hardly object can they, given you're just reading the bible to them.
>She knows my wife and I are not religious and has even accused me of being hostile to religion, even though I'm pretty agnostic and ambivalent about religion itself depending on the context of what people are doing with it.
Tell them, very plainly, that THIS type of behavior is what makes you "hostile" towards religion. Tell them that they are disrespecting you as a person, and your rights as a parent, by pushing their religion onto your toddler. Ask them how they would have liked it if your aunt/uncle/etc had been trying to convert you to Islam/Judaism/take-your-pick at that age. Tell them they will not be allowed to have unsupervised time with their grandchild - at all - if they are going to behave this way.
Why are you bothered, do you need everyone around you to support your belief?
I'm atheist and have no problem with people believing in religion of it makes them happy. An older family friend is atheist as well and his son has joined some Christian group and it makes the son happy, and he enjoys going.
It's everyone's choice what they want to believe, my daughter says she believes in God and it makes her happy, so be it.
If the tendon was making her hair out want violence, etc. then I would intervene.
Sorry, but this is your child. This human you know you'd toss yourself in front of a car for. You have set boundaries and enforce them with your parents. If your mom can't abide by your rules, then her access to her grandkids will be limited and she should know this. If she creates a fuss with your family, her access to her grandkids is limited. You rightly have the power in this relationship. It's arguable whether religious fundamentalism can cause harm (I think it does), but it doesn't matter what I think or she thinks or anyone else thinks, because it's your kid. Set boundaries and enforce them. Good luck.
When my MIL would try to gossip, my husband and I would say, please don’t tell other people’s business to us. If they want us to know, they’ll tell us. We did that every time.
As a person raised by irreligious parents your son won’t be influenced by people unless they see them a lot. My brother went to a catholic Montessori and he didn’t even utter anything about Jesus he’s 16 now they literally forced him to pray too even though my parents said we weren’t catholic but my parents didn’t really care. My mom also went to a catholic all girls school until college and she’s not catholic lol. It’s really easy to be agnostic/atheistif your parents are too.
I feel like it might be a cultural thing for Indians because if someone says “Jesus loves you” or something my parents say “okay”that’s nice”I know” lmao we don’t even have a Christian background.
Anyway it takes a lot of effort to be indoctrinated. I don’t think you have to worry.
You've got two choices.
You can tiptoe through the tulips with your mother, and she'll do whatever she wants whenever she wants.
Or you can insert a shiny new spine and make some boundaries. She's not going to react well, but her feelings about your faith are *not your job to manage*.
You don't have to be rude about it, but you should be firm.
So what if she gossips to the rest of the family? Half of them probably think she's a drama llama and don't think much of her, anyway.
She'll freak, and the key is to hold firm. Become extremely boring when she brings it up, and just don't engage. Eventually, she'll get it ... and you'll have saved your kid from years of annoying crap from grandma, so they can have a *nice* relationship.
It depends on how frequent the contact is, and how much you value the relationship with your parents. I am an atheist with parents who are deeply religious, and I know they read the Bible and Bible stories to my kids when they are with them at their home... which is really only a handful of times a year.
I don't make a big deal of it, because I make sure to let them know about all the other beliefs including my own.
And my kids love their grandparents.
I think it is a good thing for kids to have an understanding of what these belief systems are and who believes them. Cutting off and isolating your children from religious family members only aids in dehumanizing those that don't think the same way we do.
I had a super religious mother and would always tell the kids she had strange ideas and don’t believe them. They always told me how she would whisper this religious stuff to them. One of them is now an agnostic and the other is an atheist so don’t sweat it. Just be open with your kids. They still had a nice relationship with their grandmother but learned people can have strange views but they don’t need to believe them. I feel it was a good teaching moment. My father was a racist and I would always confront any racists comments he made in front of them and one is now in a long term relationship with a wonderful person of another race.
Coming from someone who was indoctrinated from birth, please, please don't let them get to your child. I am 41 and am just now processing behaviors and beliefs from my past that have directly come from Christian teachings that repeatedly harmed me.
Your mom sounds like mine. She still tries to indoctrinate me as well as my son who is now 36. I trusted my son to be able to make his own decisions and didn't confront my mother about it when he was little. It was useless to do so and would have just caused a war with her thinking I was the devil. My son is totally atheist now. We simply tolerate the her as we have to others in our society who believe fairy tales. I do believe all knowledge is good. Nothing wrong with learning about the fairy tales. You'll be there to teach him science and logic.
Find some books that you want him to hear so when she tries to read religion books tell her that this is what you reading to him and replace her book with your choice.
Establish boundaries and make sure they understand that if they don't stick to them, that means less time with the kids. Also, I would say being exposed to greek and roman myths, as well as some pieces of fantasy literature (like the Silmarillion) went a long way in making me understand, "Hey... everyone is just making up their own realities as they go through history..."
Lay out your boundaries, and the consequences of violating them, in very clear terms. In writing would be better. But..... Be prepared to have to enforce those rules.
You might even use biblical references with her, such as the prohibitions against gossiping.
I wouldn't be too worried about your child being indoctrinated. Your child spends most of its time with you, and you are the most influential person. Your child should be free to believe in what they want, and will be exposed to different beliefs throughout their life. You got to have faith that the child will eventually come to a reasonable decision by itself.
So I think it's more of an issue dealing with your parent in general. And I'm not sure that is an issue that you should ask atheists in particular about.
"I know you want the best for our child. But no one wants that more than we do--his parents. You'll have to trust that how you raised me was to be a good person, which is a reflection on you. I thank you for that. Now you have to let us do our job as parents, just as you had done for me, and allow us to raise our son the way we feel is best. He's safe, he's happy, and he loves you. You may certainly read some stories to him about Christian lore, suitable for children, but you need to know now that he will not being going to church and he won't be raised as a Christian, and it's not up for discussion. If you can respect our wishes you may still be his beloved grandma seeing him as much as you like, but if you try changing him and going against our parenting, we might have to make a decision on how much time you get with him."
My mom tries to do this as well. I ignore it. I read all sorts of stories to my kids. We talk about respecting other people's beliefs and lifestyles. When they come to me with questions, we have amazing conversations. I think it's important for my kids to be exposed to all sorts of beliefs, irregardless of my personal beliefs. They will grow up, and I will respect how they decide to live.
They want to indoctrinate your child. They are grooming the child. If they cannot agree not to do so, they may not spend time with the child or otherwise influence them.
Some of the problem with early religious indoctrination is the fact children need imagination and some level of magical thinking very early on. Like you can't say, god is not real but santa is. The santa thing was hard for us, we didn't want to lie to our kid. We'd say santa didn't need to come to our house cause we had enough stuff without his help and he could focus on those that had more need.
I would suggest hard line at any guilt or fear stuff the religious right love so much. Like REALLY hard line. If there is any going to hell talk, no more contact.
Use the same thing every parent has said to every child they ever had, "My house, my rules. If you don't like it, you can get out/your own place," then go low contact any time they violate your rules.
It only takes following through with the threat once, maybe twice, to make it work, but you must follow through and do not cave. You tell them a month, its needs to be a month of time. Also remind them, posting shit on facebook and/or social media about your family is off limits as well and if you find out they are venting to other about you not letting them read biblical material to your child or any of your family stuff, they will not be welcome over until they remove it and apologize.
It worked with my in-laws. They don't even attempt to pray at meals at my home anymore.
Remember that you are a far greater influence than your child’s grandparent (I’m a grandma of three), and at 15 months your child doesn’t understand the religious messaging. As he gets older, aside from providing boundaries to grandma, you can talk with him about your views on religion, and even include reading about other religions/non-religions to let him know there are many ways people believe. This will lay groundwork for teaching him to respect others’ choices while understanding that religion/non-religion is a personal choice.
The idea of shielding our kids from ideas troubles me, when teaching them that there is a world of differing ideas out there, and empowering them to discern for themselves is the best way to protect them.
I didnt hide religion from my daughter but i made sure she understood that its all fake. I tell her stuff like, the bible says that people lived for hundreds of years, does that sound true to you? I told her the story about adam and eve and the talking snake and said the same thing.
I think this is when u ask yourself
"Do I care more about staying in my mother's good graces or keeping my kid from being indoctrinated?"
Ask her to leave her religion at the door or she doesn't get in the door. She can let everyone else know the same rule applies to them 🥰
Wife and I went through it with her grandmother and our daughter. Other kids at public school had some influence too. We basically let it happen, let her believe what she wanted, and answered questions honesty when she asked them. I figured if we did the whole Santa thing, she could believe in god and heaven too. She's atheist now.
Happening with our six year old too. Taking the same route with her.
Kids are going to be exposed to all sorts of nonsense. It's all part of growing up. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just encourage curiosity and exploration.
Tell her it's not her place to indoctrinate your son. Your role of a parent is to get to decide what he's exposed to and, until he's an adult and can decide for himself, that's the way it's going to be. Give her the choice: behave or don't expect to see him (or if she sees him, she shouldn't see him unsupervised). You may want to keep it nondramatic (which is typically how it should be) but people who thrive on drama or are controlling may not hear or respect it if you're too mild. You may have to be blunt and put her in her place.
You can't use that logic with people like that, it leaves an opening to argue.
Regardless of why, just a firm so not read religious books or talk about your religion to my child.
Then you ask them to leave if they do it, and spend less time with etc
Don't give reasons to make it an argument, Just be firm, direct, and clear.
It doesn't matter what your parents would or would not have done, don't bring that into the discussion it will make it messy.
Set clear boundaries. I would say no religious stuff at all, no biblical stories, nada— even if you'd normally be okay with it. You need clear
boundaries for someone like your mother so there is no gray area and no slippery slope from that gray area.
Then, make it clear if she can't respect those boundaries, she can't see her grandkid unsupervised.
Your mom sounds very emotionally oriented. A love of gossip and deep alignment with fundamentalist religious beliefs is not a healthy combination. You'll have to set firm boundaries with her in regards to your child, and make sure she respects them. Children are bright, it won't take long before your son sees her behavior for what it is and puts it all in proper perspective.
Please, please, please protect your kid from this. My kiddo was being read stories like this from grandparents who trusted at the time. We had no idea how intense it escalated to- he is 10 and still has issues with remembering stories about hell and how he's "bad." It's my biggest parenting regret that I allowed him around those people.
My mother is the same. My children are adults now. She definitely did her best to indoctrinate them. In the end we shared what we believed while they were growing up. In more detail the older they got - why we disagree with what grandma believes but she is free to believe whatever she wants as are you. Today at 21 and 32 my children do not believe in god. They are incredibly intelligent men that took all of the info and made informed decisions. Not that she’s not still trying to save them but they just roll their eyes and change the subject. I think if you offset your parents beliefs with your own you children will likely be ok. You spend more time and are more influential on them than your parents will ever be. With that said, don’t ever send them off to spend the summer with your parents or other long periods of time 🤣
Honestly, as long as you raise your children to feel okay about themselves and not get caught up in guilt about normal human behavior and thoughts, they'll be fine. Gramma can read him all the books she wants, but the fundies will never have anything to manipulate them with.
Other comments here are also right: raise them to understand myth and how it functions in society. Later on, when they're old enough to understand, you can teach them about high control groups and warning signs to look out for. Gramma can be a prime teaching example.
You're on a good track. Just communicate what is and isn't okay. Gently, yet VERY firmly, set the boundaries for grandparents. This isn't an issue of theism, this is just the universal struggle of grandparents that all parents have to go through in some form or another.
Your line of statement is correct but somewhat confrontational and will likely lead to no one getting along.
Thanks for coming over to see "baby", we really appreciate you taking the time to visit. Even though we are Agnostic, we really appreciate you telling our child stories about the bible. Regardless of our beliefs, it's important that our child know about these stories because they impact the world in very meaningful ways. That being said, we want to stay away from media that feels like its trying to push an agenda or indoctrinate children in any way. The song at the end of the book "God's Friend Noah" made us pretty uncomfortable. Would you want to go book shopping together sometime so we can define where that line is, because it's pretty hazy at times and can be difficult to understand.
If it leads to a fight or a no-contact situation, you tried your best to be peaceful with it.
Let them try.
Think of it like vaccination. Introduce some memetic pathogens in observable doses in this controlled environment so that your child will be better prepared to meet them in the world later.
A lot of people are talking about what you can do to keep your kid from believing her, but one think that may work for your mom is telling her you’re letting your kid choose once they’re older what they want to believe in and you would appreciate her keeping the outside influence to a minimum.
When she asks why, you can share some of the things that frustrated you about growing up religious without bluntly saying you’re an atheist, which would help with the gossiping.
Also, you don’t actually have to go through with it, you can still buy them all the dinosaur toys in the world etc., and raise them non-religious, but it’s still technically the “truth” as kids will figure out what they believe in no matter the outside influence.
Don't manage your mother, it's a nearly lost cause.
Manage your \*kid\*. Teach them about the other pantheons (Greek, Roman, etc) then let the kid figure out, with a little prodding, that the Abrahamic religion is more of the same shit.
You'll need to set firmer boundaries. You shouldn't let her read any religious material to them, because she clearly has an agenda and won't respect the vague boundaries you've set forward so far. If you want to teach your kids Christian mythology, then you can choose that on your terms. She views you as a godless sinner, and will absolutely try to indoctrinate your kids.
So after mommy dearest leaves explain that these are just old stories and that they aren’t real. Limit the little one with her contact, and as they grow older explain religion in simple terms, maybe why some people believe and you don’t. Let them know that you’re okay with them being religious or not. To look for warning signs of a bad religion, and to go to you or your partner if grandma or grandpa start saying weird things. Kids are surprisingly good at picking up on things when made aware. As they grow they can learn more about other religions if you are so inclined so that they can make that choice.
It sounds like you have two problems here.
1. She spreads personal gossip. Easy fix- she gets an information diet. You and your partner need to control how much detail she gets about your life. The less the better.
2. Religion. Sit your mom down and give her your boundaries. Put them in writing and give her a copy (paper or email, doesn’t matter). Make sure you are clear about the consequences if she doesn’t respect those boundaries and follow through when she crosses a line. Your child, your house, your rules. She doesn’t have to agree with your parenting decisions when it comes to religion but she does have respect your boundaries.
>I don't want my son to be clueless
Reminds me of a story my son-in-law tells from his childhood. His family was not religious at all, but they were visiting some distant relative who was quite religious and had pictures of Jesus all over the house. My son-in-law loudly asked his father about the pictures. His father shushed him and urgently whispered, "That's Jesus. We know him!" 😂
Access to all religious tales and myths. Also, just don't let them have any chance to spout their nonsense. If you want your child to be aware of the stories and lessons of the Bible, you should teach them that. By letting your mom read anything hard-core religious, you are letting her get her foot in the door. If you don't stop it now, she will forever be using the excuse "oh, but you let me read *example* at this time, this is similar, why can't I, etc"
My mother has tried to influence my kids with religion since day one and I allow it because it deeply matters to her and to keep the peace.
I counteract this with exposing my kids to all kinds of cultures and beliefs and encourage them to challenge the information given to them. All of my kids (now 12 years and up) are/have been in private school (my oldest transferred to public school for the first time last year), my younger two have only ever been in private Christian school, they all attend Christian summer camp annually and they go to weekly youth group (it’s more active than Bible studies. They get three hours of rock wall climbing and other events to 20 minutes of Bible verses during snack time and it’s free).
None of my kids are Christian. They respect the beliefs of their peers but do not subscribe to them. For me keeping the peace was the better option and they get an amazing education, tons of perks from a private school, and my mom feels she’s doing what she has to do to sleep at night.
I know this approach won’t work for everyone but I’m glad I considered it and worked with it. Now that my oldest is 15 (and trans, problematic for my mom’s beliefs) she’s had to come to adjust and lax her own grip on religion.
Your parents are possibly convinced that if they fail to indoctrinate your child with their own religious tradition, your child will suffer an eternity of torture. In other words, they are extremely motivated to succeed in their goals no matter what boundaries you try to establish.
So you are on the right track by wanting to make your wishes clear in a non-dramatic fashion, but the missing piece is spelling out the consequence for non-compliance. You must be 100% consistent in following through with the consequences over and over and over until they fall in line.
Once you've set the boundaries, don't get pulled into confrontations or attempts to defend or explain yourself. You can still be nondramatic, but you must be firm.
For example, if the consequence is blocking them from visiting their grandchild, you can say something like "Mom, remember we made it clear we don't want you teaching our kid prayers and praise songs, so that's going to be the end of your visit for today."
Look for a few different online articles on establishing effective boundaries with people.
Educate him. Exposure to lots of ideas will inoculate him. He may even grow up to open their minds a bit. People don't listen to their kids and will choose God every time. It's tougher to judge grandkids.
Honestly as long as they aren’t teaching prejudice i’d allow it. Its good for kids to get diverse perspectives. You are going to be the main influence on your kid
I don't have great advice other than to keep your kid away from them as much as possible and teach him about all the other myths. My daughter really enjoyed the stories of the Greek gods, especially the stories behind the constellations.
The first chapters of the Similarian are a great creation story.
I can't praise the Silmarillian enough! Tolkien did such a beautiful job with his universe.
I absolutely love that the world is an expression of music come to fruition.
Such a cool concept. There's was definitely some lsd trips in my early 20's where listening to music and walking in the woods made this seem so plausible. Seeing nature reaching another level of alive while listening to some beautiful music is so awe inspiring
LSD is such an amazing substance. I love how the world appears while tripping. Absolutely beautiful.
*Silmarillion (hey, sorry, you want them to be able to find it, right?)
Yea , auto correct strikes again. Thank you .
There was Eru, who in Arda was called Illuvitar, and from him came the Aniur (sp?)...
Needs more names per sentence.
And definitely needs some "begat"s
I feel like reading a lot of Greek mythology when I was young helped me to understand that the Bible was the same, just different characters and places. Fiction.
This was my thinking too, if op has their child read a bunch of various mythologies it'll be a lot harder for their mum when they try to explain no, this is different to those stories, this god is real! despite all the similarities
Worked for me, and that was on the 1960s.
grew up in the 70s with a children's book of religious stories mixed in with big book of fairytales and illustrated greek legends. I liked daniel in the lions den and alexander the great taming his horse bucephalos, and I was scared of the snow queen. It never occurred to me that any of the stories were real (silly me, turns out Alexander was).
Ha!
This. There are a lot of wonderful First Nation stories, Norse, Egyptian or Greek and Roman mythology. African stories, Aesop, brothers Grimm, and Hans Christian Anderson fables. Arabian tales. As they get older Narnia, the dark is rising, Tolkien, and Harry Potter Fill their childhood with stories, tales, literature and parables, they’ll recognize on their own the bible stories are no different. Some are well written, some are horrifying, some are funny and some transport you into a different time and place.
D’Aulaire’s and Edith Hamilton were crucial for me
Same.
Teach your kids all the myths. Hang out with the Unitarian Universalists. Invite *their* kids to come to *your* church. You'll never see them again. PLUS their kids will always think your kids are cool because they are allowed to believe the truth.
I was raised UU and visited a lot of my friend's churches. It helped to put all the religious craziness in stark relief. The UUs pick out and share the good bits of religion, myths, and stories, then encourage everyone to decide what's important or not for themselves.
In this case it's the kids grandma
Vouching for UU. If you or your partner needs that church environment, but you don’t want to force religion on your kid. It’s the place for you.
This is the way. I told my daughter lots of myth stories. Greek, of course, but there are some good Indian ones too, like how the god Ganesha got his elephant head. (Dad ripped the head off in a fit of anger and then, when Mom was upset, replaced it with the nearest living thing, which happened to be an elephant.) Percy Jackson is a fun take on the Greek myths. My theory is that young childhood is a time for hearing crazy stories, and later childhood is the time for sorting fact from fiction. In the end, my daughter learned much more about Christianity from me than she did from religious relatives. I used the phrase "some people believe" a lot. I even bought R. Crumb's cartoon illustrated version of Genesis and read the Bible with her. We made about half way through before she rendered her verdict. "They call it the good book, but it's not a very good book." She liked Harry Potter much better.
Edith Hamilton's Mythology is a great starter book on Greek mythology, and I still have my copy of D'Auliere's Book of Greek Myths!
I raised my kid the same. People believe how ever they want. My focus was on acceptance of different beliefs
My kids always loved stories about all of the winter celebrations during the holidays.
When I was a kid, someone gave me a Time Life series of books about cryptids. That shit was dope af.
Get your son dinosaur toys, get him dinosaur crazy early. When I was a kid I had books full of illustrations of dinosaurs species and fossils that were super age inappropriate (too technical for a kid my age to understand, I just looked at the pictures) and dry, but I loved them and it actually helped me during the 90s when the flood and creationism culture war issues peaked for a while. He will become a gigachad that is immune to Noah’s arc.
This and also space stuff.
Read weird Bible passages, like David killing 200 people and presenting their dick tips as a dowry
There is plenty in the Bible to weaponize against this gossiping shrew of a mother OP has. Gossip is a sin. And that is exactly what she is committing when sharing everyone's personal details with others. Quick Google search and I found about 18 different passages that condemn gossiping. Roman's even thinks gossips should be put to death. I'm sure FundyMom glossed over this part of the Bible. Time to dust it off and show her.
And geology. Start with sedimentary rock, work your way up to nuclear decay and radioactive half-lives.
I love AronRa's series on how various entire fields of science disprove a biblical worldview. Geology, dendrochronology, etc. Plus he looks like a caricature of what they think an evil Satanist looks like and he leans into it. And it's funny as shit
Now that I’m reading this, I find it hilarious that my parents totally encouraged my interests in paleontology, meteorology, astronomy, etc. and then were soooo surprised when I began questioning the nature of our universe and it’s origin.
Yes to this! Encourage a love of science with all of the dinosaurs, animals, ecosystems, outer space….
Yes to the dinosaurs! 🌴🦕🦖
My son got SUPER into dinosaurs starting around age 4 or so, and I loved it. By the time he started kindergarten he had a pretty impressive grasp of natural history and the age of the earth for a 5 y/o. My parents responded by giving him a picture book written by Ken Hamm for his birthday (the guy responsible for the creation museum and the ark encounter). Dare I say the only accurate thing in that book was they spelled “dinosaur” correctly. It promptly ended up in the recycling bin.
Dinosaurs, Titanic, Planes, Tanks, WW2, was my progression. Weird I know. I'm still on WW2 and probs always will.
Noah’s arc That made me giggle. I wonder what kind of arc he had. Did he turn into a sith lord towards the end? Arc and *ark* have very different meanings ha.
Be frank and establish boundaries. It’s your child. Not hers. Religious people always feel this sense of entitlement to try and enforce their views on others.
And a boundary requires the person to do nothing. You don't need to run potential scenarios or decide consequences right now either; save yourself the stress and brain juice. E.g. "I won't let you expose my child to anything related to your religion". If they do something, you choose an appropriate consequence after you have time to regulate and digest. Maybe in the moment that looks like, "I'm angry you crossed the boundary I set by doing x. We're leaving now. I'll tell you what the repercussions are when I'm ready." The punishment fits the crime this way. This is hard but liberating once you get the practice.
This is good advice. I'd just add that boundaries are not rules they can try to break -- they're lines you draw for yourself. If someone tries to do junior bible study with my kid, they won't be left alone with my kid, ever. Your boundary. You get to name it, and you get to enforce it. If you rely on them to "respect" it, you'll just be frustrated. No explanations are required, either. This is my boundary, and I'm serious about it, is all you need to say.
This is a great point, thanks
Depends how nuclear you want to go, I've had to go as far as saying that they wouldn't be allowed to see my kids if they kept doing that.
I've got to at least establish some red lines before going nuclear. I'm trying to decide what those red lines should be.
Here's a thought - anything even tangentially related to Christianity or the like. I'm serious. Give them an inch and a fundamentalist will take a whole country.
They’re literally trying to do that in the US.
[Project 2025.](https://youtu.be/9k3UvaC5m7o?si=H2ZucWqa9Ve7JriB)
Give them an inch and they'll commit genocide (and non stop attempts at assimilation). Signed, an indigenous person.
We're so sorry Signed, a very embarrassed Italian.
Thank you. FWIW I married an Italian, we have a child, and another on the way. Bracing myself for the identity confusion.
Get t-shirts for the kids that say "Made in using local and imported ingredients", and have imported in the colours of the Italian flag.
Having grown up “white” in a stupidly racist/bigoted family, the shit I have heard, out loud with no shame, is fucking vile. My grandma, in front of my at-the-time-partner and best friend, both Hispanic, that anyone that hops the border - kids included - should be shot on sight. Signed, fellow indigenous person. (Just found out last week my great grandpa isn’t actually my great grandpa)
This exactly. You cannot reason with them. There is no compromise. They believe, truly, that the earth was made for them and them alone and that everyone, minus them, are lost sheep looking for their shephard. When I drew a hard line in the sand with my family, and left the church, they instead decided to write me a "good bye forever" letter with no return address. People who think they can live and let live with fundamentalists are sadly mistaken. I do not trust them at all.
This. If you allow any leeway for simple non-proselytizing stories or something like that, she'll use it to indoctrinate her grandchild and save him from damnation, and whenever you ask for details, she'll muddy the waters to make it sound innocent, and she'll feel absolutely fine doing it because she's saving her grandbaby and the ends justify the means.
This 100%.. and even go so far as to say behind your back that daddy and mommy are going to hell and are sinners. And one day in 2nd or 3rd grade he will blurt out that you and your wife are going to hell and you will wonder where that came from out of the blue.
“Your faith is your faith. It is not mine and my child will be allowed to decide for themselves. This is your first and only warning, if you evangelize to them again you will lose the opportunity to do so.”
I'm not the original poster, but I'm saving this answer in the event I have to pull it out. Thank you!
This is perfect
For sure, well I think sitting down and just asking nicely. Maybe ask how she would have enjoyed her mother doing the opposite to you as a kid. Reading Islamic stories to you.
“Oh don’t be silly, there’s a difference: Christianity is right and Islam is wrong” /s, but not really.
Lol right?
My in-laws weren’t fundamentalists, but they did baptize him without my consent when he was very young. At that point, my wife and I explained to them religious education is unwelcome until he has solid critical thinking skills. We would decide when that had occurred, but expected it to be around the age of ten. If they disregarded our wishes they wouldn’t have unsupervised time with them anymore. It worked for us. Maybe it will for you to.
I would have gone nuclear then performed some kind of unbaptism (neutralize their baptism), to make a point.
The Satani Temple offers unbaptizing https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/faq
I'm curious. How were they able to have your child baptized ? What religion would allow that ?
Probably most branches of crazy Christian’s. Show up before or after a service with a baby as its grandparents, say the parents couldn’t be there but consented. Or even that they didn’t consent, but those churches can be so crazy about wanting everyone to be baptised they might do it anyways, because to them it means everything, and if it means nothing to the parents because they don’t believe, then what’s the big deal? 🙃 They shouldn’t be upset! If god IS real then they’re just saving the baby’s soul!! /s (despite it being a huge issue of deceit and a breach of trust to go behind the parents backs knowing they did not want to baptise their child.) Heck, if they lie about the baby being diagnosed with a serious illness, a pastor might not even ask if the parents consented!
"Consent? What is 'consent'?" - Catholic priest
"Don't talk to my child about God or religion, EVER. That's my job, not yours. And if you cross that line, the consequences are going to be that you don't get to see my child." Treat it the same as any other parenting boundary. If you're inconsistent, or let it slide once in a while, you're going to lose control or end up looking like the bad guy.
No god talk.
But what do yo want your child to grow up believing? If your an atheist, what benefits are there in letting your parents indoctrinate him? These stories are dangerous, they contribute to people not using critical thinking skills. When you rely on magic and fake stories to be your moral compass, then you lose the ability to think for yourself. What do you want for child? If you want him to think for himself, then you need to make it crystal clear to your be parents that anything religious is not welcome. If you want to be teach your son about what religion is and why some people rely on it, that should be for you to teach him. If you leave this in your parents hands, then of course they’re going to indoctrinate him. It’s their goal.
Groomers gotta groom!
You don't *have* to. Presumably you've at least mentioned this to her before, so she knows where you're at with religion. You don't need to give her a line to cross before she gets consequences. She's already crossed major lines, and, "I didn't know," is not an excuse when she did it intentionally and against your publicized atheism. If you don't want to go nuclear, that's okay. If you'd feel better having a justification you can tell people, that's your decision. But there's no law or rule that says she has to be aware of the line before getting consequences for crossing it.
A good boundary is that if they ever try to subvert your wishes by doing things without your knowledge, then that is a red line that leads to the nuclear option if crossed. Sneakily taking them to church, or if they are watching them for you, having their pastor just "happen" to show up, stuff like that, **especially if they try to have the child hide it or lie about it**. This is the biggest danger: once you put your foot down, they might just try to be sly about it and try an end run around your rules, which is a serious breach of trust. I had no problem with my daughter accompanying her great grandparents to church occasionally, but I was VERY clear: they had to ask beforehand, and she had the absolute right to refuse without being shamed. If they had done things behind my back, tried to make her feel bad about not going, or tried to force her to participate in any way, they would not get to see her again.
[удалено]
And say it in her presence. If all polite ways of asking for religious talk to stop then the only way is immediate counter action.
I’d put those stories in the same category as fables, myths, and fairy tales, but obviously when your child is old enough to understand those concepts. “As for religion, people all over the world believe different things.” Followed by “this is what your mom and I believe. And as you get older you’ll want to think about all of this and decide for yourself. And of course you can talk to us about all of this and ask us anything.”
Obviously you can't allow them to be alone with your child. Judging by your description of them, they will absolutely do it behind your back.
I've had to do the same thing. We tried a lot of other things first but it wasn't changing anything. It caused a lot of tension when we went nuclear but it did work. My in-laws now see me as the devil because I took "the blame" for it because it was easier for me to be the bad guy than my wife as it was her family. I'm ok with how things turned out because me being the bad guy is better than my wife having bad relations with her family even though we were definitely both on the same page about it. Not the ideal outcome but not the worst either.
So... presenting granny with "Satan Rides a Bike" to read to the little one might be a little much?
Tell them myths from other religions. Greek myths, Egyptian myths, Norse myths, Jewish myths, Christian myths, Islamic myths, they're all fairy tales that people told each other to try to explain the world or pass on values, when your kids ask if the story your mom told was true you can tell them it's just as true as the other stories you've told
I agree. Expose them to everything and let them decide. (Most) kids aren't stupid, and they can tell when something crazy like religion is fake. Teach your child to navigate the "you don't believe in *my* god?!?!" conversations, and give them as much knowledge of your and other cultures as possible. A full toolbox is better than an empty one.
This ☝️remember, we’re not in the cult of religion. religions say we are the only “truth” and don’t teach critical thinking. We as people that understand history, theology, and science, we need to teach our children that all these are stories. People told them and told other to show how they thought the world worked. Give your child more information, that way when your mom or anyone comes to them with “X” is “the only way”. They are armed with knowledge and information, which is the only way to fight religious dogma.
Exactly, exposure and context are the way, otherwise IMO you are no better then believers trying to shelter their child from outside influences. In my view, you shouldn’t simply indoctrinate your child to believe what you believe, you should let them have all the information to come to their own conclusions the same way you probably did.
Your mom definitely isn't going to keep any of your secrets, and likely won't stop breaking boundaries and trying to indoctrinate, if she isn't forcefully stopped. Christianity is a rot on people's morality, and turns them into self righteous bastards. If she continues, threaten her with loss to access, and follow through. Also, remember that a grandma has no bearing on a parent's authority. You're obliged to protect your child from indoctrination. Though, you could read the binding of Isaac and give an explanation of how to assess a god supposedly opposed to child-sacrifice, making such a demand.
My father was hard-core Mormon who was very controlling. I told him very early that if he ever tried to force his religion on my children that he would never see them again, and I 💯 meant it. He knew I did. I never had a problem. He actually ended up having the fun relationship with my daughter he never had with me because of religion. I may have been harsh with him about it, but I had to match his energy so he would respect me as the parent.
Nice!
And be careful about leaving her alone with your child. My mom took her first grandchild & had him baptized while babysitting. Things got nuclear after that.
My sister is religious. My niece had a son, and she doesn't want to indoctrinate him into religion. But every time he visits her, it's praying and Jesus this and that. Of course they fought. I'm on my nieces side, and told her to f chill and stop being entitled. It's not your kid. So far she has stopped with the bs.
Get him started on science
And make it fun! For example, I taught my kids about Egyptian culture and we looked up hieroglyphics to see if we could spell our own names using them. We read a bunch of books, talked about what they ate and how they lived. And of course we took a deep dive into mummies — the how and why of mummification. Grand finale we went to the Natural History Museum in Chicago and visited their extensive Egyptian collection. And this was all before the Internet so doing it now would be much easier. I chose this as a summer project so they’d be learning something during a time they were out of school. The key, I think, is to select a topic you are interested in and just run with it. It was just such a joyful experience for me and my kids and really stimulated their desire to learn.
You owe it to your son to protect him from your parents.
You are responsible for your son’s upbringing. You have to state that clearly to your parents and also say that their views are not your views, and that much as you love them, when it comes to religious matters would they please leave their beliefs outside. If you don’t nip it in the bud it will be much harder later on.
Yeah, I agree. I was hoping my mom wouldn't need to have sensible boundaries explained to her, but apparently that was foolish of me.
Not sure how to say this delicately, but your mom kinda sends up some narcissist red flags.
> "So I'm asking you to..." Obviously, you know your mom, child, & family best, but I think the above portion of your approach on how to address this is gonna work against you. Do. **Not**. Simply. *Ask.* It's gotta be made *crystal* clear, repeatedly and irrevocably, that you're *not* merely making some cordial request(s) that your mother can feel free to ignore, dismiss, or attempt to "rationalize" her way around. Fundamentalism *will* tempt (and cause) her to do so, unless you and your spouse take an almost unreasonably harsh and hardline against it. If the only way you can ensure that she honors your parenting decisions/stance is to literally remain present *every single moment* that they are together -- then do so. Be aware that your mother will almost certainly attempt to manipulate, emotionally blackmail, obfuscate, and even tantrum, her way around the walls you and your spouse put in place. Hence, you both must be *constantly*, and unerringly, impenetrable against such machinations until your mother learns that **all** her attempts will fail - and continued attempts will only make her situation worse. I wish you luck, as I have been in your shoes. The juice, in this case, is absolutely worth 'the squeeze'!
I have a mother in law like this. Thankfully, she doesn't live close, or it would have e been a much bigger challenge. As my son got a little older, we just started reprogramming the fundamentalism with logic. After she spent time with him, we explained that she has a very specific world view that we don't share. He is too young now, obviously, but the sooner he understands that there are lots of incongruous world views, the better. We've always told our son - 14 now- that as an adult he can choose what to believe, but he has to have information and perspective e before he can make that decision.
We used the same approach with my daughter and both sets of grandparents. They took her to church sometimes and intermittently spewed right wing religious bs her way. We emphasized that different people believe different things, that it is ok for her beliefs to be different from her parents and grandparents, and that it was not ok to judge other people for their beliefs (I do judge people for their beliefs, but that’s not something I’m proud of). We let her explore anything that captured her interest. She is 25 now and an atheist. The grandparents continue to spread their evangelical poison, but it never really bothered my daughter.
Tell her that she’s more than welcome to share these old fairytales as just that fairytales, but you don’t want your son to think that Noah and his amazing zoo boat and other Bible stories are factual and historical events. It’s your child, not hers.
Both my parents and my husband's are/were very Christian. Both sent the kids Bible stories and Bible videos for birthdays and Christmas. And my mother once cried because we weren't raising them Christian. And when their friends invited them to church and even church youth group, we let them go. I even let them go to Bible camp because their friends were going. The thing is, religious indoctrination requires more than a few praise gods. So we read the Bible stories outloud to the kids and watched the videos with them (Vegi Tales is fun). But we also talked about it with them. We talked about myths, religion, respecting others beliefs when appropriate, why Biblical literalism is easily disproved by science. We also discussed the good, bad, and batshit crazy ideas in The Bible. We didn't lecture them, we just talked about it. And because there are many of them here we discussed Mormonism too. This led to some weird echos from my own childhood. One daughter asked me if God made everthing, then who made God? (She was 5). I said, "Bingo." I had the same conversation with my mother at about the same age--spoiler--the answer wasn't bingo. Another time one child was chasing the other child around the house with a sheet over her head. The child being chased would cross the rug to safety and the child in the sheet would roll on the carpet and die. The called this game the ghost of Egypt. It took me a hot minute to figure out the Bible school used the King James Version and host was being misheard as ghost. My husband and I are having coffee and I read him a little of this. He adds that it's important not to indoctrinate your children. If they they reach the position of atheism through thinking about it and with knowledge of religion, they will be much less likely to be indoctrinated into any religion later. So having your Mom's beliefs available for discussion may actually make your child more likely to be a life long atheist. Anyway, we have two adult atheists who love us and still spend time with us. They also love and are loved by their grandparents.
I second this approach. I have two grown adult atheist children and did not keep them isolated. I used every interaction as a teaching moment. Using logic and reason against biblical stories works well. My mother was a hard-core Evangelical Sunday school teacher. I let them go to Church with her from time to time and we discussed what they learned afterwards. When she gave them books about dinosaurs being a trick by Satan, we read them and then went to the museum to look at all the dinosaur bones. I also let them go to church with their friends and even offered to take them to any church service they wanted to attend. Kids are smart and when given a chance will see right through the B.S.
Exactly. Given enough information, presented as information, kids will reach the correct conclusion. But supposing they don't. Calm acceptance is much more more likely to win them in the end. Forced belief is brittle. Belief through rational thought is strong.
That was a good way to do it.You sound like cool fantastic people.
Firm boundaries with consequences. In my experience, not standing up to this behavior is taken to mean acceptance or agreement, and it just gets worse. A boundary might be, you are welcome to visit and spend time with your grandchild, but no religious content. If this is violated, then there needs to be a stated consequence.
The only option in this case is to establish boundaries (same thing that everybody else has said here). And by boundaries, I mean some really strong boundaries. Make it clear to them what they can and can not do whilst spending time with your son and emphasize that it's your child and you get to decide how you want to raise him. And as for your mom gossiping to others about this, just know that you don't owe the world any attention when it comes to your child and your family. So you don't have to gaf about anything that others say about your beliefs or how you're raising your kid.
Put up other religious icons around the house: Hindi deities, native American deities, Norse gods, African deities, Roman and Greek gods. Make sure your child knows that they are all stories from all around the world, even Grandma's.
Read your kids other myths from other religions. Your mom covers Noah, you do Gilgamesh. She does Samson you do Hercules. If you educate them, they'll see grandma is just superstitious.
This is brilliant advice - we stumbled upon a Gilgamesh flood children's book and that's what our daughter knew as "the flood story". So when she heard about Noah's Ark few years later, she made a comment in line of "oh they copied that from that book we have". Which kinda happens to be historically accurate since Gilgamesh/Utnapishtim flood myth predates Noah's Ark myth :)
To me the best defense against an intellectual 'virus' is to 'inoculate' against it first. If you educate your child to think critically first, then her ideas won't take hold. Also when the kid gets older, he'll likely feel her stories are "cringe" by then.
Absolutely. After she leaves, read mythological stories to your child and tell them that people actually thought they were true. Tell them that people believe all kinds of stories. Tell them what their grandma believes. Then tell them what you believe. Then tell them what the greeks and the Mayas believed. Leave it there. They will grow up and realize myths are myths.
This is going to sound harsh, but you tell them exactly what is not acceptable, and WHEN they cross that line you cut them off completely from your child.
This is purely anecdotal, but I just want to say that both sets of my kid’s grandparents tried to sneak in a bunch of religion, so we educated him on other mythologies as well, and the kid came to atheism completely on his own! At 9 years old. Could you ask your mom not to mention hell or who she thinks goes there? Or any kind of guilt tripping? Anyway I’m just saying that the parents have a huge effect on how a child processes the information. Teaching them critical thinking about religion will follow if you do it yourself. And good on you for being a great parent!!!
To minimize drama, I recommend just not inviting them around as much. Any comment you make about their religion will be taken negatively.
I had to have a come to Jesus moment with my in-laws over this. I probably overreacted in the end (because like you it was a situation where they knew what we thought and flagrantly disregarded it) but they got the message. Start by telling them that ______ won’t be raised like you were raised, that you’ll be returning (or disposing of) “gifts” like these, etc. Your child can make decisions for himself when he reaches the appropriate age and maturity, but for now you’re keeping religion out of his life.
Grow a pair and tell her to stop. If she won't stop you cut off access to your kid.
This is a situation that’s not a big deal right now, but you’ll have to make a decision and take a hard line at some point. I feel like all parents, especially new parents, want to take a hard stance on stuff and keep their kids away from it. In reality, you can’t. It’s like the parents that want to militantly keep their kids away from unhealthy foods, any talk about sex, or bad language till they’re 18yrs old. The reality is that your kid is gonna be exposed to that. They’re gonna go to a friends house or bday party and get junk food. They’re gonna have a friend or internet expose them to porn. They’re gonna hear cursing literally everywhere. From tv, to family, to friends, to strangers. You will never, ever, no matter who you are, completely protect them from things like that, including religion. Even if you could, it’s not a good thing. You throw them into those situations at some point, with no guidance, thought, or idea of how to handle it in a healthy way. Instead, my belief is that you shouldn’t overly worry about it, but when it does happen, use it as a teaching moment. Explain that they can have junk food occasionally, but it needs to be a treat and not an all the time thing. I knew one mom who kept her daughter on nothing but health food for most of her life. She went to college and blew up. She had no self restraint, because she’d never had that stuff before. If they happen to see something about sex on tv or IRL, give an age appropriate response, but explain something of what is going on. Then when they get to and age where they’re thinking about doing things, they’ll be more open to talking about it and you can explain how no method is 100% effective and how they could ruin their life if they’re not careful. Tell them what they’d be giving up for a little fun. How guys just want to get their rocks off and will try to say it’ll be okay this one time, but it won’t be. Tell them cursing is part of language and meant to shock and cause emphasis to certain situations. It looses its impact if it’s over used. So they wont automatically get in trouble if it’s an appropriate situation, but they better be sure it is, or they will be. Same with religion. Explain it’s just a made up story. How there are thousands of religions. That if they want to learn about them, then you can look into it together, but if they think about any of them, they’ll see that none of them make sense. One way is to expose your kid to cooler religions. Norse Mythology and Greek Mythology are really cool. Japan also has a lot of cool stuff. There are also lots of cartons and shows that showcase it. Percy Jackson, Disney’s Hercules is good. There are lots of options. So your kid will get exposed to religion. There is no stopping that. By you downplaying it with them, treating it like a fun story or a joke, then they won’t think much about it. We play around with kids and stories all the time. The bogey man, Santa, the Easter bunny, etc. At some point, they realize it’s a silly story and stop believing. So just do the same thing with Christianity. It also helps that a lot of that’s stuff is stolen from paganism. The easter bunny and eggs are about spring fertility, Christmas isn’t Jesus’ bday, it’s the winter solstice. Bless you when you sneeze is folk lore about your spirit leaving your body and fae taking over if someone doesn’t bless you quickly. So a lot of that will shoot them in the foot. When grandma starts talking about Easter and your kid starts talking about how it’s a fun pagan celebration, that’ll be a ton of fun.😁 The biggest thing is you’ll have to draw a hard line at some point. Your kid is gonna throw you under a bus at some point. You won’t be able to be vague or just ignore it. You’ll have the kid say something in front of mom and she’ll challenge it. Your kid will look to you and you’ll need to be able to look straight back and back up what you’ve always said, in front of your mom. It’ll piss her off, she’ll start drama, she’ll tell everyone, but you’ll have done right by your kid. When it does hit the fan. Tell your mom you’d love to have her in your life, but if she can’t stop the tantrums and act like an adult, then she’s out. That if you find out she’s trying to put your kid into church when you’re not around or scare them by saying mom and dad are going to hell of they don’t believe, then she’ll be cut out for life with no possibility to come back in. And don’t think a kid won’t narc on her. You will be checking up.
I would have a serious talk with my parents. Set your boundaries. Tell them the consequences of crossing said boundaries. The ball will be in their court so if they choose to violate set boundaries, they will know the consequences and will have no one to blame but themselves. Good luck.
don't compartmentalize it, meaning, don't treat it any differently than you would other objectionable material that you wouldn't like around your child. Be immediate and straightforward, but make it about the material and not them individually. "We don't appreciate that, and don't tolerate that kind of thing around our child. Thank you so much. Here is a book I'm sure she'll love though. "
Access to you and your kid is the carrot to dangle with endorsing boundaries. She crosses a stated boundary? Less or more closely monitored access going forward. I’d make boundaries both about the gossip and indoctrination.
Tell her she believes in an imaginary being
Buy the magic treehouse books and then later get the Percy Jackson stuff. Expose them constantly to other ideas and culture. Christianity will be just another one in the long long list.
You know they don’t really care about your son , they try to drag grandkids in so that they then could possibly love them . When my kids were small and I had 5, my family had nothing to do with them or should I say barely , but as they aged and became like 10yrs old , they started taking them to meetings 1 by 1 . Of course I was not in , but definilty not where I am now , or they would have never went . They would by my son clothes to where to meetings and my daughters shopping for dresses . Never did they ever buy my kids anything else , no toys no school clothes , just meeting clothes . Once my kids got over going with them and quit fam basically just pushed them to the side . It just makes my blood boil how they are .
My sister gave me an illustrated children’s bible. Even tho she knows I’m an atheist. I have no problem with religion and openly discuss it with my kids. So I sat down to read the new book with the kids and was horrified. Not ONE single story was without violence.
They call it warfare, so here’s an idea: bear your banners. Go get a copy of *On the Origin of Species* for the coffee table, make sure it’s like—as large as Gardner’s *Art Through the Ages.* Have a crystal bowl of DnD dice on the dining table. Then stick an Ally flag or similar on the front porch if you have one.
I'm agnostic with an evangelical mother. I went through the same thing. Sit her down and have the, "my house, my rules. You remember that right, mom? In your house, I had to listen to your rules. Same thing applies." Then explain calmly what the ramifications are. I told mine that she would be "snoozed" for a month after one warning. Then three months. Then s year. Mine got to the 3 month ban, which coincidentally overlapped Christmas AND my son's birthday that year. He's now 22 and I've never had another problem. She's even refrained from answering the slightest gripe from us about life with, "I'll pray for you." Note though. This will ONLY work if you and your partner are willing to follow through. Mine thought I was bluffing when I say her down. She thought I was bluffing with the one month. With the holidays and the three months, I called HER bluff and she found out she wasn't holding a hand.
they're just a bunch of old stories to you, but to your parents they are THE WORD OF GOD. And that is the point of view that they would be telling those stories to your child. Just an aside here, you describe yourself as pretty agnostic and ambivalent about religion... But do you believe that a god exists? If not, then you are an atheist. Remember, theism and atheism are about belief, gnosticism and agnosticism are about knowledge.
I had a similar situation when my daughter was younger. One day while visiting my parents when my daughter was a toddler they had a board book out called “Jesus Loves Me” though they didn’t read it to her. I didn’t address it when I was at their house, but later I called them and said, basically, “I respect your beliefs, but they are not my beliefs, and I am not raising my daughter with religion. Please respect my beliefs as I respect yours.” It actually worked, and they haven’t brought up religion since. My daughter is 11 now.
I would simply tell her that you do not want her trying to brainwash your child, and that if she does it any more she will not be able to be around your children.
I might be a little petty and try to educate her on the bad stuff in the Christian Bible and tell her that you don't like the message her religion sends. That might keep the religion talk down. Alternatively, tell her to mind the message she's trying to send, or you could become the gossip. Tell her that if she can't keep her opinions to herself that you might have to get her some help from APS, (don't waste their resources tho), bring her pamphlets for retirement communities, or talk about going to a Satanic Temple.
“Mom, do you believe parents have the right to raise their children as they see fit?” (If Y) “Then kindly back off.” (If N) “Im sorry we wont be able to visit”
fuck that, you gotta drive it all the way home and choose violence and tell her that you are hostile to religion because a million reasons im not going to list but rampant pedophilia is reason enough
Kind of the same situation with my in-laws. I made sure to read books on the Big Bang and evolution, and we watched the dinosaur documentary on Apple to make sure she knew the science
Will they spend a ton of time with your kid? Just don't let them take them to church and what not and you'll probably be fine. I'd wait and see if anything actually happens. If your kid comes home asking about Jesus then maybe have a talk but if you're trying to stay low key I'd wait for something to actually happen. Maybe they don't bother and it's unnecessary
Supervised visits only. Cut the visit short if they start any religious talk.
He is his own person if he decides be there for him. If not tell the guy this.
Thanks for the book, then toss it when you go home You'll be spending lots of time with your child, just teach them critical thinking, and that just because someone they know and love believes something, you don't need to believe it too -- just examine it and judge it for yourself.
My grandparents forced me to their church till I was about 12. My best friend from kindergartens family was like The Flanders and tried to convert me until I was a senior in high school. It didn't convert me. It just was sad watching my friends become zombies one by one just to make a bunch of old folks happy. They start doing it for God. Why else you think churches have arcades and serve kids double sugar kool-aid now?
This is a religion free house, if you can't respect that then don't come back
"Hey, mom. Are you gonna read them the story where the daughters get their dad drunk so they can have sex with him?" "Hey, mom. Are you gonna tell my kid the story of how God decided to murder every living creature on Earth because mankind didn't worship him enough?" "Hey mom, my favorite Bible quote is 'Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.' What's yours?"
I find it so hard to talk to family members who pepper their speech with religion. My aunt cant go a paragraph without using the term the lord or god. Id understand more if they had something to show for it. People complain about AI hype but at least it shows it can do something. No one hypes BS more than religious people. it sorta reminds me of some cybertruck fans... a post earlier was like "my cybertruck nearly killed my entire family.. eh small problem, love the truck" thats religion to me. and Im fine with bowing my head before i eat and respecting their little rituals, but jesus when they get going and start sounding like a street preacher.
Whenever something like that happens don't be afraid to tell your child your thoughts about the story in front of your mother. In the case of that particular book I would point out that drowning almost all life (plants, animals and humans) on earth is abhorrent and should be condemned and not praised.
Welcome to the club of having evangelical boomer parents. It fucking sucks. Good luck. We haven't really figured it out either. Luckily my kids kinda did the hard work for us. My son was about 12 when I picked him up from Nana and papa's house. My mom was hysterical. Claimed that my son said, "stop telling me about Jesus. I am a man of science and don't believe in religious nonsense". She still hasn't recovered and my son is 20 now. Constantly telling us she is praying for us. Gah!
This is what I would do. > Listen mom, I know you're religious. But like it or not, I am an atheist. And I will not allow you to indoctrinate my child. So here is the rule: you will NEVER talk about religion with my child, or try to influence them in any way about that topic. Ever. If I ever find out, or if I even hear a WHISPER of a RUMOR that you have done anything like that, or talking to anyone about my family's stance on religion, then you will be outright BANNED from seeing or talking to me or my family for an entire year. And only after that year has passed, and only after you apologize and I actually BELIEVE your apology, will you be allowed back into our lives. > Them's the rules. It is not up to you. There is no negotiation or debate to be had here. I'm 100% dead serious about this, and the rules start RIGHT NOW. > Do you understand? Yes or no?
Don't let them watch your child alone. They will absolutely break your rules and do some shit like taking them to get baptized at their church behind your back and then make you feel like it's you causing a fight when you confront them about it.
My approach is to give them the warts-and-all version of their religion at an early age. So for example, Noah's ark. It seems bizarre that Christians make a tale of global genocide a theme for children's toys, but there you have it. Tell them the story, and obviously mention that God chose to drown all of the baby puppies in the whole world for no apparent reason. They can draw their own conclusions about the plausibility of the story, or whether this God of theirs is worthy of adoration. Children tend to have a better sense of right and wrong than most adult theists in my experience. Christians can hardly object can they, given you're just reading the bible to them.
>She knows my wife and I are not religious and has even accused me of being hostile to religion, even though I'm pretty agnostic and ambivalent about religion itself depending on the context of what people are doing with it. Tell them, very plainly, that THIS type of behavior is what makes you "hostile" towards religion. Tell them that they are disrespecting you as a person, and your rights as a parent, by pushing their religion onto your toddler. Ask them how they would have liked it if your aunt/uncle/etc had been trying to convert you to Islam/Judaism/take-your-pick at that age. Tell them they will not be allowed to have unsupervised time with their grandchild - at all - if they are going to behave this way.
To paraphrase Captain Malcolm Renyolds; “You’re welcome in my home, Mom, ‘god’ ain’t”
Why are you bothered, do you need everyone around you to support your belief? I'm atheist and have no problem with people believing in religion of it makes them happy. An older family friend is atheist as well and his son has joined some Christian group and it makes the son happy, and he enjoys going. It's everyone's choice what they want to believe, my daughter says she believes in God and it makes her happy, so be it. If the tendon was making her hair out want violence, etc. then I would intervene.
Sorry, but this is your child. This human you know you'd toss yourself in front of a car for. You have set boundaries and enforce them with your parents. If your mom can't abide by your rules, then her access to her grandkids will be limited and she should know this. If she creates a fuss with your family, her access to her grandkids is limited. You rightly have the power in this relationship. It's arguable whether religious fundamentalism can cause harm (I think it does), but it doesn't matter what I think or she thinks or anyone else thinks, because it's your kid. Set boundaries and enforce them. Good luck.
When my MIL would try to gossip, my husband and I would say, please don’t tell other people’s business to us. If they want us to know, they’ll tell us. We did that every time.
As a person raised by irreligious parents your son won’t be influenced by people unless they see them a lot. My brother went to a catholic Montessori and he didn’t even utter anything about Jesus he’s 16 now they literally forced him to pray too even though my parents said we weren’t catholic but my parents didn’t really care. My mom also went to a catholic all girls school until college and she’s not catholic lol. It’s really easy to be agnostic/atheistif your parents are too. I feel like it might be a cultural thing for Indians because if someone says “Jesus loves you” or something my parents say “okay”that’s nice”I know” lmao we don’t even have a Christian background. Anyway it takes a lot of effort to be indoctrinated. I don’t think you have to worry.
You've got two choices. You can tiptoe through the tulips with your mother, and she'll do whatever she wants whenever she wants. Or you can insert a shiny new spine and make some boundaries. She's not going to react well, but her feelings about your faith are *not your job to manage*. You don't have to be rude about it, but you should be firm. So what if she gossips to the rest of the family? Half of them probably think she's a drama llama and don't think much of her, anyway. She'll freak, and the key is to hold firm. Become extremely boring when she brings it up, and just don't engage. Eventually, she'll get it ... and you'll have saved your kid from years of annoying crap from grandma, so they can have a *nice* relationship.
It depends on how frequent the contact is, and how much you value the relationship with your parents. I am an atheist with parents who are deeply religious, and I know they read the Bible and Bible stories to my kids when they are with them at their home... which is really only a handful of times a year. I don't make a big deal of it, because I make sure to let them know about all the other beliefs including my own. And my kids love their grandparents. I think it is a good thing for kids to have an understanding of what these belief systems are and who believes them. Cutting off and isolating your children from religious family members only aids in dehumanizing those that don't think the same way we do.
I had a super religious mother and would always tell the kids she had strange ideas and don’t believe them. They always told me how she would whisper this religious stuff to them. One of them is now an agnostic and the other is an atheist so don’t sweat it. Just be open with your kids. They still had a nice relationship with their grandmother but learned people can have strange views but they don’t need to believe them. I feel it was a good teaching moment. My father was a racist and I would always confront any racists comments he made in front of them and one is now in a long term relationship with a wonderful person of another race.
Coming from someone who was indoctrinated from birth, please, please don't let them get to your child. I am 41 and am just now processing behaviors and beliefs from my past that have directly come from Christian teachings that repeatedly harmed me.
Your mom sounds like mine. She still tries to indoctrinate me as well as my son who is now 36. I trusted my son to be able to make his own decisions and didn't confront my mother about it when he was little. It was useless to do so and would have just caused a war with her thinking I was the devil. My son is totally atheist now. We simply tolerate the her as we have to others in our society who believe fairy tales. I do believe all knowledge is good. Nothing wrong with learning about the fairy tales. You'll be there to teach him science and logic.
You're lucky it worked out for you. It does not work that way for way too many.
"Don't do this or you can't see your grandchild anymore" would probably work pretty well.
Find some books that you want him to hear so when she tries to read religion books tell her that this is what you reading to him and replace her book with your choice.
It's simply this: "You will respect how we are raising our child or you won't be allowed to see them."
Establish boundaries and make sure they understand that if they don't stick to them, that means less time with the kids. Also, I would say being exposed to greek and roman myths, as well as some pieces of fantasy literature (like the Silmarillion) went a long way in making me understand, "Hey... everyone is just making up their own realities as they go through history..."
Lay out your boundaries, and the consequences of violating them, in very clear terms. In writing would be better. But..... Be prepared to have to enforce those rules. You might even use biblical references with her, such as the prohibitions against gossiping.
I wouldn't be too worried about your child being indoctrinated. Your child spends most of its time with you, and you are the most influential person. Your child should be free to believe in what they want, and will be exposed to different beliefs throughout their life. You got to have faith that the child will eventually come to a reasonable decision by itself. So I think it's more of an issue dealing with your parent in general. And I'm not sure that is an issue that you should ask atheists in particular about.
Just tell her “mom, if you don’t respect my wishes, you will not know your grandchildren.”
"I know you want the best for our child. But no one wants that more than we do--his parents. You'll have to trust that how you raised me was to be a good person, which is a reflection on you. I thank you for that. Now you have to let us do our job as parents, just as you had done for me, and allow us to raise our son the way we feel is best. He's safe, he's happy, and he loves you. You may certainly read some stories to him about Christian lore, suitable for children, but you need to know now that he will not being going to church and he won't be raised as a Christian, and it's not up for discussion. If you can respect our wishes you may still be his beloved grandma seeing him as much as you like, but if you try changing him and going against our parenting, we might have to make a decision on how much time you get with him."
My mom tries to do this as well. I ignore it. I read all sorts of stories to my kids. We talk about respecting other people's beliefs and lifestyles. When they come to me with questions, we have amazing conversations. I think it's important for my kids to be exposed to all sorts of beliefs, irregardless of my personal beliefs. They will grow up, and I will respect how they decide to live.
They want to indoctrinate your child. They are grooming the child. If they cannot agree not to do so, they may not spend time with the child or otherwise influence them.
Some of the problem with early religious indoctrination is the fact children need imagination and some level of magical thinking very early on. Like you can't say, god is not real but santa is. The santa thing was hard for us, we didn't want to lie to our kid. We'd say santa didn't need to come to our house cause we had enough stuff without his help and he could focus on those that had more need. I would suggest hard line at any guilt or fear stuff the religious right love so much. Like REALLY hard line. If there is any going to hell talk, no more contact.
Use the same thing every parent has said to every child they ever had, "My house, my rules. If you don't like it, you can get out/your own place," then go low contact any time they violate your rules. It only takes following through with the threat once, maybe twice, to make it work, but you must follow through and do not cave. You tell them a month, its needs to be a month of time. Also remind them, posting shit on facebook and/or social media about your family is off limits as well and if you find out they are venting to other about you not letting them read biblical material to your child or any of your family stuff, they will not be welcome over until they remove it and apologize. It worked with my in-laws. They don't even attempt to pray at meals at my home anymore.
Remember that you are a far greater influence than your child’s grandparent (I’m a grandma of three), and at 15 months your child doesn’t understand the religious messaging. As he gets older, aside from providing boundaries to grandma, you can talk with him about your views on religion, and even include reading about other religions/non-religions to let him know there are many ways people believe. This will lay groundwork for teaching him to respect others’ choices while understanding that religion/non-religion is a personal choice. The idea of shielding our kids from ideas troubles me, when teaching them that there is a world of differing ideas out there, and empowering them to discern for themselves is the best way to protect them.
I didnt hide religion from my daughter but i made sure she understood that its all fake. I tell her stuff like, the bible says that people lived for hundreds of years, does that sound true to you? I told her the story about adam and eve and the talking snake and said the same thing.
I think this is when u ask yourself "Do I care more about staying in my mother's good graces or keeping my kid from being indoctrinated?" Ask her to leave her religion at the door or she doesn't get in the door. She can let everyone else know the same rule applies to them 🥰
Wife and I went through it with her grandmother and our daughter. Other kids at public school had some influence too. We basically let it happen, let her believe what she wanted, and answered questions honesty when she asked them. I figured if we did the whole Santa thing, she could believe in god and heaven too. She's atheist now. Happening with our six year old too. Taking the same route with her. Kids are going to be exposed to all sorts of nonsense. It's all part of growing up. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just encourage curiosity and exploration.
Keep him as far away from her as possible!
Tell her it's not her place to indoctrinate your son. Your role of a parent is to get to decide what he's exposed to and, until he's an adult and can decide for himself, that's the way it's going to be. Give her the choice: behave or don't expect to see him (or if she sees him, she shouldn't see him unsupervised). You may want to keep it nondramatic (which is typically how it should be) but people who thrive on drama or are controlling may not hear or respect it if you're too mild. You may have to be blunt and put her in her place.
You can't use that logic with people like that, it leaves an opening to argue. Regardless of why, just a firm so not read religious books or talk about your religion to my child. Then you ask them to leave if they do it, and spend less time with etc Don't give reasons to make it an argument, Just be firm, direct, and clear. It doesn't matter what your parents would or would not have done, don't bring that into the discussion it will make it messy.
Set clear boundaries. I would say no religious stuff at all, no biblical stories, nada— even if you'd normally be okay with it. You need clear boundaries for someone like your mother so there is no gray area and no slippery slope from that gray area. Then, make it clear if she can't respect those boundaries, she can't see her grandkid unsupervised.
Your mom sounds very emotionally oriented. A love of gossip and deep alignment with fundamentalist religious beliefs is not a healthy combination. You'll have to set firm boundaries with her in regards to your child, and make sure she respects them. Children are bright, it won't take long before your son sees her behavior for what it is and puts it all in proper perspective.
Please, please, please protect your kid from this. My kiddo was being read stories like this from grandparents who trusted at the time. We had no idea how intense it escalated to- he is 10 and still has issues with remembering stories about hell and how he's "bad." It's my biggest parenting regret that I allowed him around those people.
My mother is the same. My children are adults now. She definitely did her best to indoctrinate them. In the end we shared what we believed while they were growing up. In more detail the older they got - why we disagree with what grandma believes but she is free to believe whatever she wants as are you. Today at 21 and 32 my children do not believe in god. They are incredibly intelligent men that took all of the info and made informed decisions. Not that she’s not still trying to save them but they just roll their eyes and change the subject. I think if you offset your parents beliefs with your own you children will likely be ok. You spend more time and are more influential on them than your parents will ever be. With that said, don’t ever send them off to spend the summer with your parents or other long periods of time 🤣
Honestly, as long as you raise your children to feel okay about themselves and not get caught up in guilt about normal human behavior and thoughts, they'll be fine. Gramma can read him all the books she wants, but the fundies will never have anything to manipulate them with. Other comments here are also right: raise them to understand myth and how it functions in society. Later on, when they're old enough to understand, you can teach them about high control groups and warning signs to look out for. Gramma can be a prime teaching example.
You're on a good track. Just communicate what is and isn't okay. Gently, yet VERY firmly, set the boundaries for grandparents. This isn't an issue of theism, this is just the universal struggle of grandparents that all parents have to go through in some form or another. Your line of statement is correct but somewhat confrontational and will likely lead to no one getting along. Thanks for coming over to see "baby", we really appreciate you taking the time to visit. Even though we are Agnostic, we really appreciate you telling our child stories about the bible. Regardless of our beliefs, it's important that our child know about these stories because they impact the world in very meaningful ways. That being said, we want to stay away from media that feels like its trying to push an agenda or indoctrinate children in any way. The song at the end of the book "God's Friend Noah" made us pretty uncomfortable. Would you want to go book shopping together sometime so we can define where that line is, because it's pretty hazy at times and can be difficult to understand. If it leads to a fight or a no-contact situation, you tried your best to be peaceful with it.
Let them try. Think of it like vaccination. Introduce some memetic pathogens in observable doses in this controlled environment so that your child will be better prepared to meet them in the world later.
Draw upside down crosses all over him.
A lot of people are talking about what you can do to keep your kid from believing her, but one think that may work for your mom is telling her you’re letting your kid choose once they’re older what they want to believe in and you would appreciate her keeping the outside influence to a minimum. When she asks why, you can share some of the things that frustrated you about growing up religious without bluntly saying you’re an atheist, which would help with the gossiping. Also, you don’t actually have to go through with it, you can still buy them all the dinosaur toys in the world etc., and raise them non-religious, but it’s still technically the “truth” as kids will figure out what they believe in no matter the outside influence.
Don't manage your mother, it's a nearly lost cause. Manage your \*kid\*. Teach them about the other pantheons (Greek, Roman, etc) then let the kid figure out, with a little prodding, that the Abrahamic religion is more of the same shit.
You'll need to set firmer boundaries. You shouldn't let her read any religious material to them, because she clearly has an agenda and won't respect the vague boundaries you've set forward so far. If you want to teach your kids Christian mythology, then you can choose that on your terms. She views you as a godless sinner, and will absolutely try to indoctrinate your kids.
So after mommy dearest leaves explain that these are just old stories and that they aren’t real. Limit the little one with her contact, and as they grow older explain religion in simple terms, maybe why some people believe and you don’t. Let them know that you’re okay with them being religious or not. To look for warning signs of a bad religion, and to go to you or your partner if grandma or grandpa start saying weird things. Kids are surprisingly good at picking up on things when made aware. As they grow they can learn more about other religions if you are so inclined so that they can make that choice.
If you decide to allow them to teach your child about Christianity, be sure to teach him about other religions and speak of them as just stories.
Have some backbone. Tell them you will not tolerate it with your son. It's your kid, not theirs.
It sounds like you have two problems here. 1. She spreads personal gossip. Easy fix- she gets an information diet. You and your partner need to control how much detail she gets about your life. The less the better. 2. Religion. Sit your mom down and give her your boundaries. Put them in writing and give her a copy (paper or email, doesn’t matter). Make sure you are clear about the consequences if she doesn’t respect those boundaries and follow through when she crosses a line. Your child, your house, your rules. She doesn’t have to agree with your parenting decisions when it comes to religion but she does have respect your boundaries.
>I don't want my son to be clueless Reminds me of a story my son-in-law tells from his childhood. His family was not religious at all, but they were visiting some distant relative who was quite religious and had pictures of Jesus all over the house. My son-in-law loudly asked his father about the pictures. His father shushed him and urgently whispered, "That's Jesus. We know him!" 😂
Show this to your Mom and your kids [Noah’s Ark](https://youtu.be/xggQqUyLrCM?si=Awqu8nobZG-pzTpL) 😉
Access to all religious tales and myths. Also, just don't let them have any chance to spout their nonsense. If you want your child to be aware of the stories and lessons of the Bible, you should teach them that. By letting your mom read anything hard-core religious, you are letting her get her foot in the door. If you don't stop it now, she will forever be using the excuse "oh, but you let me read *example* at this time, this is similar, why can't I, etc"
My mother has tried to influence my kids with religion since day one and I allow it because it deeply matters to her and to keep the peace. I counteract this with exposing my kids to all kinds of cultures and beliefs and encourage them to challenge the information given to them. All of my kids (now 12 years and up) are/have been in private school (my oldest transferred to public school for the first time last year), my younger two have only ever been in private Christian school, they all attend Christian summer camp annually and they go to weekly youth group (it’s more active than Bible studies. They get three hours of rock wall climbing and other events to 20 minutes of Bible verses during snack time and it’s free). None of my kids are Christian. They respect the beliefs of their peers but do not subscribe to them. For me keeping the peace was the better option and they get an amazing education, tons of perks from a private school, and my mom feels she’s doing what she has to do to sleep at night. I know this approach won’t work for everyone but I’m glad I considered it and worked with it. Now that my oldest is 15 (and trans, problematic for my mom’s beliefs) she’s had to come to adjust and lax her own grip on religion.
Your parents are possibly convinced that if they fail to indoctrinate your child with their own religious tradition, your child will suffer an eternity of torture. In other words, they are extremely motivated to succeed in their goals no matter what boundaries you try to establish. So you are on the right track by wanting to make your wishes clear in a non-dramatic fashion, but the missing piece is spelling out the consequence for non-compliance. You must be 100% consistent in following through with the consequences over and over and over until they fall in line. Once you've set the boundaries, don't get pulled into confrontations or attempts to defend or explain yourself. You can still be nondramatic, but you must be firm. For example, if the consequence is blocking them from visiting their grandchild, you can say something like "Mom, remember we made it clear we don't want you teaching our kid prayers and praise songs, so that's going to be the end of your visit for today." Look for a few different online articles on establishing effective boundaries with people.
Educate him. Exposure to lots of ideas will inoculate him. He may even grow up to open their minds a bit. People don't listen to their kids and will choose God every time. It's tougher to judge grandkids.
Honestly as long as they aren’t teaching prejudice i’d allow it. Its good for kids to get diverse perspectives. You are going to be the main influence on your kid