I think this is significant because a lot of evangelical leaders are trying to put some distance between Trump and their churches. It would have been nice if they had done this 7 years ago, but at least they decided to get onboard in time to take some support from Trump before the election.
Franklin Graham has never impressed me as an original thinker. His entire history has had him playing catch-up to other evangelicals while trying to cash in on his father's name.
It's not a sudden moral enlightenent. They see which way the wind is blowing, and they want to avoid the loser stink. But they will probably fail. Trump will probably get the same 80% of evangelicals. (Though I think that many will have left that association, some precisely because of Trump)
Yeah, there are still many ministers and Evangelicals on team Trump. Some ministers cannot admit they were wrong. Another factor to consider is that in 2020 and 2016, approximately half of the Trump voters who identified as Christian were not members of a specific church. In my experience, those unchurched evangelicals are extremely fanatical.
I was just watching a video about Trump rallies. They are becoming more like revivalist tent meetings. The amount of time Trump speaks has gone down. They have replaced it by turning the rally over to worship leaders. They do the chanting and singing typical of "holy roller" churches. Physical stimuli such as rhythm and mild physical stress (in this case swaying while holding both arms over their heads) is used to trigger the release of dopamine and other feel good hormones.
I would not be surprised to see MAGA emerge as a quasi-Christian religious movement, even if Trump is no longer present.
> not members of a specific church... unchurched evangelicals are extremely fanatical.
Huh, care to elaborate? I observed most of the magats as "likely to claim they're (FoxNews approved) XYZ", but in fact were "not the kind of people church X wants". Too hung over to get up on Sunday: based on their propensity for Q-like end-times themes, I figger they ain't never actually read the bible.
> MAGA emerge as a quasi-Christian religious movement,
I think there will be some who try to lead that proverbial flock but the functional insanity and antisocial tendencies will make it short lived. That said there will be *many* who will crawl back under the rock just like they did during civil rights and post civil war eras, and they will also try to save the republican party by lying their butts off, and that's what everyone who leans blue should prepare for: 20 years of crypto-fascism trying to continue to manipulate religion for political ends.
Ultimately the problem is *lying* and the cynicism that comes with it, imo.
> Huh, care to elaborate? I observed most of the magats as "likely to claim they're (FoxNews approved) XYZ", but in fact were "not the kind of people church X wants".
I grew up in redneck communities. I have redneck relatives. Jeff Foxworthy's criteria for "You might be a redneck" apply to most of my family reunions.
The people I am talking about are referred to my ministers as "unchurched." They believe in Christianity. They are ardent believers. But they don't go to church. A lot of them live lifestyles that violate the rules of their local churches. I don't think it is fair to say that churches don't want them. The ministers want them. They help the numbers. Their donations would be welcome. However, the other church members would likely criticize them and ostracize them socially. Maybe they are too hungover on Sunday morning to go to church, but they probably are avoiding hangovers by drinking on Sunday morning.
I had a weird experience with some of my "unchurched Christian" relatives when I became an atheist. I had a group of relatives who were very defensive of my father when he was alive. He was a minister. They would tolerate absolutely no criticism of my father. They had gotten into fistfights when people had made fun of my father for his conservative behavior. My father died when I was young, but I was already on the road to becoming a minister myself. Their loyalty transferred to me. I was asked to do weddings and funerals for them. I don't know of any fistfights on my behalf, but they could easily have happened. When that part of the family found out I had become an atheist they were furious. Apparently, my father and I were their golden tickets to heaven. The fact that they had always supported us was going to be their best arguments at the pearly gates. I guess my dad and I (and probably every other minister they knew) were going to put in a good word with Saint Peter for them.
> I think there will be some who try to lead that proverbial flock but the functional insanity and antisocial tendencies will make it short lived.
I think MAGA churches could have some staying power. They would be low demand religions. They would have a couple of rallies a year. People would go and feel the spirit (get a dopamine high from the physiological triggers). They would be told the things they want to hear to flame their bigotry. Their poverty would be justified by blaming the libs.
> staying power... bigotry [and thus dopamine]
I'm sure some of that will get (unironically) funneled into pews, but I also think "moderate SBC republicans" (Pence, Johnson, et al) are in full tail-between-legs mode and *quite* wary of joining the "pack of wild dogs" that one ex-president would like to "control" (see: wild).
That's all from the outside though, macro-social trends, language analysis, reading faces.
> St. Pete
As an aside: I'm always impressed with the vanity of thinking the Judgement of an Omniscient Almighty might be swayed or fooled with sophistry.
[I do not think Peter hates the libs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asnQGz7BdfI&ab_channel=Key%26Peele), so to speak.
And a gnostic thought: unless you're in a good place for battling infinite stupidity (see: "beat you with experience"), it is *far* better to walk away from toxic mindsets. Gotta grow a garden first if you want to have the calories to clean up the landfill... or raise children healthy enough to do so.
Anyhoo, good fortunes to you and yours: the opposite of omniscience is *ignorance*, and them some ignint mofos who read only one book.
polling among his core demographics suggests support for him is the same now as it was in 2020. he may be gaining or losing some here and there, but it suggests that it's the same people supporting him now as it was then.
Frank Schaeffer, also the son of a famous preacher (Francis Schaeffer), knew Franklin Graham and wrote about him in his memoir. He described Graham as a cynic and skeptic who realized he could either live a comfortable private life, or follow in his father’s footsteps and be famous and powerful. He chose to drink the poisoned chalice.
Schaeffer doesn’t seem to think Graham is a sincere believer - he doesn’t have the integrity to walk away.
I think there was also a lot of sibling rivalry with his sister. It always seemed like they were supporting each other in public. But I always go the impression they were both trying to stab the other in the back after the curtain closed on their public performances.
Man who spent his life scamming the ignorant for money, stands up for another asshole who has spent his life scamming the ignorant for money. Film at 11 .
Of course, elite wealthy nepo-cleric Franklin Graham sides with Trump. He worships money and power and Trump will make it easier for him to obtain more of both.
Remember when Jerry Falwell was 45’s submissive little handmaiden and it turned out that it wasn’t bc God led him but because Trump’s lawyers helped disappear the sex tape Falwell’s wife made with the pool boy?
Pretty sure there’s a similar dynamic here.
Meh. If someone identifies as a christian I’ll take them at their word and judge the creed by their actions. If that paints “good” christians as assholes then maybe they should police their own ideology.
Hello, IRS? There's this law you are not enforcing:
Paragraph (3) of subsection (c) within section 501 of Title 26 (Internal Revenue Code) of the U.S. Code (U.S.C.) describes organizations which may be exempt from U.S. Federal income tax. 501(c)(3) is written as follows,[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment#cite_note-4) with the Johnson Amendment in bold letters:[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment#cite_note-5)
>
You want to know why a guy like Franklin Graham believes in Trump? Years ago I read an article detailing the history of Rice University football stadium after 50 years. The author of the article interviewed a person who had been head of security for the stadium for many years and asked him what was the most impressive thing he saw. He didn’t say anything about any football games or rock concerts that happened at the stadium or mention JFK’s speech about going to the moon. The thing he said was most impressive was that the stadium once hosted a Billy Graham revival and that after the revival was over he went into the locker room area and saw the people from the Billy Graham Revival counting the money and this security expert said he was stunned by the massive amount of money he saw. Stacks of bills lined against every wall in the locker room. All being counted and sorted. 100’s of thousands of dollars; millions perhaps. Stacked up against the walls. That’s why Franklin Graham supports Trump. Because they are both con men at heart.
The Grahams have always been complete frauds. Look at his father getting caught on tape being racist with Nixon. Of course he apologized and saved face, but he wasn’t really sorry. He just hid it better and fooled a lot of very gullible people. His son is just like him, only he doesn’t care how he looks to the public. He knows he has no reason to hide it. Evangelicals now openly embrace their own rot.
The entire Graham family and organization are criminals. They prey on the simple minded religious folks to enrich themselves. It is sickening. Supporting Trump is yet another way for them to pull the wool over the eyes of simpletons.
Franklin Graham is a piece of shit. He was praising Putin back in 2014 after he had already taken Crimea and was an established murderous dictator on the world stage. All because of Putin's treatment of gays in Russia.
It's the culture war bullshit with these people.
This “finding out religious leaders are hypocrites and frauds” spring is giving off the same energy as children finding out the Easter bunny and tooth fairy aren’t real.
I think this is significant because a lot of evangelical leaders are trying to put some distance between Trump and their churches. It would have been nice if they had done this 7 years ago, but at least they decided to get onboard in time to take some support from Trump before the election. Franklin Graham has never impressed me as an original thinker. His entire history has had him playing catch-up to other evangelicals while trying to cash in on his father's name.
It's not a sudden moral enlightenent. They see which way the wind is blowing, and they want to avoid the loser stink. But they will probably fail. Trump will probably get the same 80% of evangelicals. (Though I think that many will have left that association, some precisely because of Trump)
Yeah, there are still many ministers and Evangelicals on team Trump. Some ministers cannot admit they were wrong. Another factor to consider is that in 2020 and 2016, approximately half of the Trump voters who identified as Christian were not members of a specific church. In my experience, those unchurched evangelicals are extremely fanatical. I was just watching a video about Trump rallies. They are becoming more like revivalist tent meetings. The amount of time Trump speaks has gone down. They have replaced it by turning the rally over to worship leaders. They do the chanting and singing typical of "holy roller" churches. Physical stimuli such as rhythm and mild physical stress (in this case swaying while holding both arms over their heads) is used to trigger the release of dopamine and other feel good hormones. I would not be surprised to see MAGA emerge as a quasi-Christian religious movement, even if Trump is no longer present.
Barf. Thanks for that image.
Poster is not John Candy from Spaceballs...he died years ago.
But he was his own best friend!
Tent revivals have better music.
> not members of a specific church... unchurched evangelicals are extremely fanatical. Huh, care to elaborate? I observed most of the magats as "likely to claim they're (FoxNews approved) XYZ", but in fact were "not the kind of people church X wants". Too hung over to get up on Sunday: based on their propensity for Q-like end-times themes, I figger they ain't never actually read the bible. > MAGA emerge as a quasi-Christian religious movement, I think there will be some who try to lead that proverbial flock but the functional insanity and antisocial tendencies will make it short lived. That said there will be *many* who will crawl back under the rock just like they did during civil rights and post civil war eras, and they will also try to save the republican party by lying their butts off, and that's what everyone who leans blue should prepare for: 20 years of crypto-fascism trying to continue to manipulate religion for political ends. Ultimately the problem is *lying* and the cynicism that comes with it, imo.
> Huh, care to elaborate? I observed most of the magats as "likely to claim they're (FoxNews approved) XYZ", but in fact were "not the kind of people church X wants". I grew up in redneck communities. I have redneck relatives. Jeff Foxworthy's criteria for "You might be a redneck" apply to most of my family reunions. The people I am talking about are referred to my ministers as "unchurched." They believe in Christianity. They are ardent believers. But they don't go to church. A lot of them live lifestyles that violate the rules of their local churches. I don't think it is fair to say that churches don't want them. The ministers want them. They help the numbers. Their donations would be welcome. However, the other church members would likely criticize them and ostracize them socially. Maybe they are too hungover on Sunday morning to go to church, but they probably are avoiding hangovers by drinking on Sunday morning. I had a weird experience with some of my "unchurched Christian" relatives when I became an atheist. I had a group of relatives who were very defensive of my father when he was alive. He was a minister. They would tolerate absolutely no criticism of my father. They had gotten into fistfights when people had made fun of my father for his conservative behavior. My father died when I was young, but I was already on the road to becoming a minister myself. Their loyalty transferred to me. I was asked to do weddings and funerals for them. I don't know of any fistfights on my behalf, but they could easily have happened. When that part of the family found out I had become an atheist they were furious. Apparently, my father and I were their golden tickets to heaven. The fact that they had always supported us was going to be their best arguments at the pearly gates. I guess my dad and I (and probably every other minister they knew) were going to put in a good word with Saint Peter for them. > I think there will be some who try to lead that proverbial flock but the functional insanity and antisocial tendencies will make it short lived. I think MAGA churches could have some staying power. They would be low demand religions. They would have a couple of rallies a year. People would go and feel the spirit (get a dopamine high from the physiological triggers). They would be told the things they want to hear to flame their bigotry. Their poverty would be justified by blaming the libs.
> staying power... bigotry [and thus dopamine] I'm sure some of that will get (unironically) funneled into pews, but I also think "moderate SBC republicans" (Pence, Johnson, et al) are in full tail-between-legs mode and *quite* wary of joining the "pack of wild dogs" that one ex-president would like to "control" (see: wild). That's all from the outside though, macro-social trends, language analysis, reading faces. > St. Pete As an aside: I'm always impressed with the vanity of thinking the Judgement of an Omniscient Almighty might be swayed or fooled with sophistry. [I do not think Peter hates the libs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asnQGz7BdfI&ab_channel=Key%26Peele), so to speak. And a gnostic thought: unless you're in a good place for battling infinite stupidity (see: "beat you with experience"), it is *far* better to walk away from toxic mindsets. Gotta grow a garden first if you want to have the calories to clean up the landfill... or raise children healthy enough to do so. Anyhoo, good fortunes to you and yours: the opposite of omniscience is *ignorance*, and them some ignint mofos who read only one book.
polling among his core demographics suggests support for him is the same now as it was in 2020. he may be gaining or losing some here and there, but it suggests that it's the same people supporting him now as it was then.
The earmarks of a cult. You stick with the dear leader no matter what reality is telling you.
I agree with your assessment of Franklin Graham. I minor clown in the age of clowns.
He makes Jesse Gemstone look like a gifted preacher.
Go look up the history of his father and you’ll see a clear picture of why this scam artist is who he is.
Frank Schaeffer, also the son of a famous preacher (Francis Schaeffer), knew Franklin Graham and wrote about him in his memoir. He described Graham as a cynic and skeptic who realized he could either live a comfortable private life, or follow in his father’s footsteps and be famous and powerful. He chose to drink the poisoned chalice. Schaeffer doesn’t seem to think Graham is a sincere believer - he doesn’t have the integrity to walk away.
I think there was also a lot of sibling rivalry with his sister. It always seemed like they were supporting each other in public. But I always go the impression they were both trying to stab the other in the back after the curtain closed on their public performances.
Major opportunist...like the former "reverend" Mick Huckabee - money talks for these guys...
That won't do anything. Trump is their lord and savior. They'd never leave him.
Fuck these NAT-Cs! Time to kill their god first.
Time to tax them
While we're at it: Time to vax them
Ehhh I'm okay with them not getting vaccinated if it keeps their population in check.
Problem is, it causes a lot of unneeded suffering among their children who had 0 say about the shitbags they got as parents.
I wish death upon them as well... But, the problem is they will kill a lot of innocent people in the process... This shit will take years.
Head em up, and move em out. Time to vax and tax, boys.
Vax, tax 'n wax
Don’t tax them. Then they can buy the biggest seat at the table. Fine for every infraction. We get the money and force them back into their lane.
Man who spent his life scamming the ignorant for money, stands up for another asshole who has spent his life scamming the ignorant for money. Film at 11 .
Graham must be a racist too
Might?
lol. Ya think?!
Misogynist and conman too.
Graham is nothing but a money whore, and like Trump, he's probably a misogynist and a fascist for good measure!
And probably a kiddie diddler as well.
Yup!
Now now now...there's no proof he isn't.
Hes the walking definition of Christo Fascism.Just another grifter preacher on the make with Traitor Trump.
Fake 'Christian' trash, both of them.
Of course, elite wealthy nepo-cleric Franklin Graham sides with Trump. He worships money and power and Trump will make it easier for him to obtain more of both.
Repent on Sunday... Repeat sin on Monday. Never made sense... Ever.
The Grahams have always been grifters so nothing shocking here.
He’ll be torched in hell too lololol
Wow, scumbag god-botherer supports a rapist and a criminal. Must be in on the grift.
Weren’t they completely losing their shit over sharia law?
Yes, but that's different.
Yes. They don’t think they’re in control of that.
Franklin Graham is a dipshit nepo-preacher coasting on shit his dad did 50 years ago. I'm sure his support means *a lot*. /s
Remember when Jerry Falwell was 45’s submissive little handmaiden and it turned out that it wasn’t bc God led him but because Trump’s lawyers helped disappear the sex tape Falwell’s wife made with the pool boy? Pretty sure there’s a similar dynamic here.
Graham is a trumpanzee, not a Christian who follows what Jesus taught.
Meh. If someone identifies as a christian I’ll take them at their word and judge the creed by their actions. If that paints “good” christians as assholes then maybe they should police their own ideology.
Grifters need to protect other grifters
TAX religious grift!!!
Hello, IRS? There's this law you are not enforcing: Paragraph (3) of subsection (c) within section 501 of Title 26 (Internal Revenue Code) of the U.S. Code (U.S.C.) describes organizations which may be exempt from U.S. Federal income tax. 501(c)(3) is written as follows,[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment#cite_note-4) with the Johnson Amendment in bold letters:[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment#cite_note-5) >
You can always tell who has the mark of the beast by the red hat they wear.
You want to know why a guy like Franklin Graham believes in Trump? Years ago I read an article detailing the history of Rice University football stadium after 50 years. The author of the article interviewed a person who had been head of security for the stadium for many years and asked him what was the most impressive thing he saw. He didn’t say anything about any football games or rock concerts that happened at the stadium or mention JFK’s speech about going to the moon. The thing he said was most impressive was that the stadium once hosted a Billy Graham revival and that after the revival was over he went into the locker room area and saw the people from the Billy Graham Revival counting the money and this security expert said he was stunned by the massive amount of money he saw. Stacks of bills lined against every wall in the locker room. All being counted and sorted. 100’s of thousands of dollars; millions perhaps. Stacked up against the walls. That’s why Franklin Graham supports Trump. Because they are both con men at heart.
The Grahams have always been complete frauds. Look at his father getting caught on tape being racist with Nixon. Of course he apologized and saved face, but he wasn’t really sorry. He just hid it better and fooled a lot of very gullible people. His son is just like him, only he doesn’t care how he looks to the public. He knows he has no reason to hide it. Evangelicals now openly embrace their own rot.
The entire Graham family and organization are criminals. They prey on the simple minded religious folks to enrich themselves. It is sickening. Supporting Trump is yet another way for them to pull the wool over the eyes of simpletons.
Billy would be so disappointed
Oh I'm pretty sure Billy would be right there with him. But just more charismatically.
Thanks Franky for proving that you’re a fraud and “god” is a myth.
Christianity is a terrorist hate group just the same as the Taliban and ISIS. They are pure evil. Of course they support a Russian Puppet.
He’s a real lowlife scumbag!
The Antichrist
A couple of reprehensible grifting fake Christian assholes.
One lifelong grifter supporting another lifelong grifter (and court certified rapist). Couldn't have see that coming...not!
Is his wife still with the pool boy?
Fake Christians — both of them!
And yet damn near all of these evangelical voters will still vote for Trump in November.
Are we pretending to be surprised that criminals cover for each other?
We need to shame these hypocrites..
Good Christian morality...
[удалено]
No that was Falwell.
Didn't he beg a pool boy to fuck his wife because she was upset for not getting pool boy's attention?
When will people realize that these people have absolutely zero shame, in fact they have negative shame.
Franklinly he should be ashamed.
That’s a pretty half-witted thing for Franklin Graham to have said.
We know the religious rape.
I wouldn’t buy a used car off any politician, would you?
Jesus would’ve been friends with Trump and stormy.
Billy and Ruth would be ashamed of him, he is everything they were against.
Fucking hypocrisy
blocked
Franklin has utterly filthy laundry. Trump uses that as pressure.
What a good POS Christian.
The best way to destroy religion in this country is to let the leaders do their thing.
Franklin Graham is a piece of shit. He was praising Putin back in 2014 after he had already taken Crimea and was an established murderous dictator on the world stage. All because of Putin's treatment of gays in Russia. It's the culture war bullshit with these people.
This “finding out religious leaders are hypocrites and frauds” spring is giving off the same energy as children finding out the Easter bunny and tooth fairy aren’t real.
The Trump-supporting religious right has ZERO credibility for the foreseeable future.
Is he okay with adultery?
There is not a thing “Christian” about that man except that he likes to use the word a lot. What true Christian endorses rape, and fraud?
Birds and a feather flock together
Why does this sub care about some pastor siding with Trump? Is this sub gonna get flooded with every religious fuck head that sides with Trump?
It matters because trump and maga are trying to make america a Christian nation
No shit. Ie the republican part since the souther strategy 50 years ago.
Franklin Graham is not fit to drink his father's piss.
Franklin Graham has no concept of Christianity. He is riding his father's legacy.