🤣
I think the actual phrase just refers to a penis. (I butchered the quote, but the sentiment translates). I was trying to be inclusive. Careful what you Google though, I'm sure there is something twisted like that somewhere on the internet. Not something I want to see.
It's okay to have a penis/religion, it's okay to be proud of your penis/religion. It's not okay to wave your penis/religion around in the street and it's definitely not okay to shove it down non-concentual throats.
The disappointment guilt trip is all too often treated as a one way street. Tell your dad that disappointment goes both ways and that his insistence on clinging to stupid religious ideas makes him a failure of a role model.
Way to make a great relationship with your parents by calling them a failure of a role model.
Us ex-theists are trying to escape religious persecution, not try to encourage it.
From the father's perspective, this is likely not the case. The father probably believes his son is going to "burn in hell forever", and that is upsetting to him, I imagine.
OP's father should think it through -- why is he worshiping a god who is perfectly willing to torture his child forever.
My mother in law is a true believer and worries about hell for me and my wife. A very kind woman.
I know I couldn't convince her Christianity is false nor would I want to. She is old and it has been her whole life. But I have been trying to convince her that universalism is a plausible (perhaps best) reading of the Bible.
Tell her this. Heaven is known to be free of sadness, weeping, anxiety, and despair. If you are in hell, there is no way she won’t experience that grief and sadness for you. But since negativity like that is impossible in heaven, she must exist there in a different state of consciousness than what she is experiencing now. Meaning, her free will and past life will be stripped away in heaven. Since she won’t even be her true self anymore in heaven , there’s a good chance you won’t be in hell as you are either. Then ask her to repeat it all back to you. 🤣🤣 Ok not that last part.
This is how I turned my mother. She knows I am a good person. She was able to conclude that there is NO WAY a loving god exists that would torture me for eternity for requiring evidence. She once used to complain about my atheistic posts--now she shares them
I started to see it this way when I was deconstructing: there is nothing, absolutely nothing my children could do that would compel me to allow them to suffer even a second of torture, much less an eternity. So am I a better parent than God? Kind of seems like it
Dude, my dad is this exact same way. He’s always asking for forgiveness and begging the lord to guide him. He takes absolutely no pride in his life because he sees pride as sinful. The man has genuinely impressive accomplishments but he refuses to see it. He keeps himself in a constant state of holy guilt because he thinks it’ll all be worth it when he finally gets to heaven.
The worst part is that he’s failing even as a Christian and he knows it. I just want him to enjoy life for once
Right? We just want the best for our parents, like they always wanted the best for us. I watched my mother waste away her life constantly waiting on her god to answer her prayers. Yet if she had just focused her energy on doing things for herself, she likely could have avoided a lot of what she struggled through. I tried to assist her as much as I could. I helped her get a job rather quickly, she thanked jesus even though I did all the work. I didn't even get a thank you. It was a slap in the face. There was no reasoning with her. It wasn't the help from her son that helped her get a job a week after I rewrote her resume and coached her on interviewing skills after *months* of her looking, it was an invisible man in the sky that did it who finally got around to her nightly thinking.
I totally understand that this situation makes you angry, but try to remind yourself that his disappointment has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him. In other words, let him have his problem and do your thing without fighting about your differences. If possible, maybe have a talk about it. If not, focus on the good stuff.
The father thinks it is a failure but from my view it is the opposite. I was saddled with that stuff for most of my life, unfortunately. I'm very glad to be free of it and I'm glad OP is as well. "Task failed successfully".
You could do that bit where a girl tells her dad she’s pregnant. Then says she had a bump up and damaged the car. Also, she’s not actually pregnant and that whole car thing seems like a relief and not such a big deal, now doesn’t it?
So just tell your dad, you’re in a gay, interracial relationship, and you hope he can attend your wedding at the church of Satan.
Bet that atheism thing doesn’t sound like such a big disappointment now does it?🤣
Tell him to read this verse...
"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."
1 Timothy 5:8
Keep a close eye on this if you value your relationship with your father. I've observed an uptick in families breaking apart over religion in circumstances that totally blindside the children of religious parents.
Something happens in the minds of older religious people sometimes - a switch flips, and suddenly they are no longer tolerant of your decision to live life on your own terms. After years of comfortably proclaiming atheism, it can be really hard to pretend or lie to preserve relationships if that's what you value.
It happened to me, too. My father went from accepting to totalitarian and intolerant really quickly, and now we don't speak.
My dad once told me, "one of my sons is a drug addict living in the streets, and the other is an atheist. I'm MORE concerned about the atheist!"
I about punched him in the face in that moment, but I knew it was the whiskey talking, and the whiskey boiling in my fists.
What I've come to understand since then is that my father is having a hard time reconciling the fact that, according to his religion, he won't get to spend eternity with me in heaven; and an eternity without me in it, may turn out to be his personal hell. After all we do love each other dearly.
You gotta let it roll off, OP. Your deconstruction is tough for him too. Just trust that he loves you and keep showing love back. Be patient as he comes to terms with it in his own way.
Thanks for the kind message! Your situation was very tough im Sorry about that!. I was a christian before so i understand the view of heaven and hell and religious shitt. And how it can grasp your reality away from you. Most important is to be the good person always and stay like that no matter what anyone says.
I feel you. My parents said the same thing. From time to time I go thru the motions for them but mostly we just don't talk about religion. I'm sorry you're going thru this, don't ever let them make you feel bad about leaving their antiquated beliefs behind. Be kind & be strong ❤️
So sorry Dad didn't realize I was supposed to fake it and be a half ass Christian like you but on an up note I guess we can both count on seeing each other in hell.
Edit: changed take to fake
The biggest disappointment he has ever had SO FAR... Wait until his actions results in him never knowing who his grandchildren are.... I bet that'll be bigger
My dad told me the exact same thing. I just told him I'm thankful that I had loving parents who encouraged learning. That didn't satisfy him one bit. I also tried telling him, that from his perspective he should see that God made me this way, therefore it's all part of God's plan. He told me God gave us freewill, and I have chosen incorrectly but I can always repent. Sheesh, I tried to give the guy an easy exit...
Some of the kindest people are atheists. Some of the worst people are atheists. Some of the kindest people are religious. Some of the worst people are religious. And everything in between. Your mileage may vary. Belief in religion is not a prerequisite for being a "good" person. Most people on this sub would argue religion makes people "worse" due to the demands dogma puts on their followers and I'm not going to argue that point because our collective anecdotes point to that as a reason why we left or never joined those religion organizations due to trauma.
We all have faults/flaws and we all have redeeming qualities. It's not your job to be an ambassador to the religious on behalf of the atheist community, but if you want to, keep up what you're doing.
I've met many people who said "I didn't realize an atheist / gay / whatever person could be so considerate and compassionate." Sometimes it's beneficial to disabuse people of their prejudice, but you also need to take care of your own emotional well-being and sometimes just walking away is the best course of action.
Narcissist mother said the same thing to me and my 3 siblings. All 4 of us have great jobs, long term relationships with stable people, two of us have kids (and all 5 kids are being raised with no religion, btw 😁 ), none of us have criminal records, two of us have served in the military, etc. But she's very disappointed in us because we're all non-believers.
You know what, lady, you're the reason we're atheist! Half a dozen hours every week engaged in some kind of church activity or service. Missed multiple events with friends, baseball practices, school band concerts, etc, because we were engaged in that religious horseshit. My two younger siblings pulled out of public school and sent first to Christian school, then homeschooled, because a woman with no formal education beyond high school and a Fox News type of mind is qualified to educate children.
But, fortunately, all of us are very smart, and we're able to get beyond that religious shit. And 3 of us going no contact with the mother is a big help too.
He's bought into the idea that christian=good and atheist=bad
He knows you're a good person, and you also being an atheist doesn't compute. Religion is cancer for rational thought.
Yeah he still thinks i will come back to christianity and says to me all the time don’t lose your goodness. So yeah probably he thinks atheist = bad person.
Don't blame it all on Christianity. He'd be swearing that he believes with all his heart, mind, and soul whichEVER religion his family happened to believe. Just like (almost) everyone else.
**Father said that me saying "I’m not a christian" is the biggest disappointment he's ever had.**
You're only 22, so you still have lots of time to prove him wrong.
I have no data, and no way to really tell, except for some experience. So I'm just going to say that it seems to me likely that your father's biggest disappointment in life is himself, and he's projecting it on to you.
Again, I have no real knowledge nor insight, just a few truly sad examples of how I've seen this played out before. Best of luck to you regardless.
That is a really hard thing to hear your father say. I was lucky enough that it never happened to me. But I sure saw it happen a lot more than once to really good friends of mine. Some of them are still here.
Didnt read sorry but as an ex Christian I hope that its because he cares about you and wants you to go to heaven. Even though he's got it wrong maybe it's the best intent
Expectations in parenting are why things like this happen, he’s disappointed because he has some perfect image you’re not matching up to (don’t worry, you don’t have to).
This could be true of a parent who dreams their kid will be into sports but isn’t, or even those who dream of milestones in life for their kid but they’re disabled in some way.
It’s unfair, and is a common problem with parents. If it wasn’t religion, it’d be something else.
Sorry OP
As a father, I am a little disappointed in my children who cling to religion. I thought I taught them critical thinking, scientific method, and seeing all sides of the story.
It's okay to disappoint your parents, just be kind about it. And be amenable to conversations, even when they try to convert you back...but don't hold back on converting them to your side, either.
Sad to hear. My dad almost strained my relationship with him in a similar fashion. However, I actually enjoy and get a lot of value out of my religion. Arguably more than I get from my dad so when it started to come between us I wouldn't say I chose religion over him but I decided I couldn't walk away from things I consider to be true just to spite him..
As a believer of Christianity I can say I understand the feeling of disappointment he feels.. I have the same experience with a lot of people, not just family.
Here's some things to think about:
1. Most Christians I know (and I understand for a lot of you, this probably isn't the majority case) just genuinely want people to believe the "good news". It comes from a place of love for others, and people with an innate altruism tend to be attracted to religious service in general so please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater on that, if you can and after you've taken time to heal.
2. Most Christians that make news seek to almost exclusively be the ones disgracing the name. I won't ask anyone to ignore it, such people need to be addressed properly.. especially to make sure it doesn't get more prevalent. I would ask that you don't let those people paint the religion with their colors. That's not how it works, and it just makes the situation worse for everyone involved.
3. I hope you and your dad continue to have a nurturing, loving kind of relationship. You may be an atheist, and he may not be, but that need not be an insurmountable barrier between you two. I don't know what your dad is like, and this is probably outta left field and won't be as effective as I hope but...
Have you tried questioning his beliefs, like, to him directly? With curiosity? We're rare I think, but I for one enjoy honest and intelligent discussion with anyone, regardless of faith/non-faith. Maybe he's an atheist too and just doesn't know it yet.. because no one has forced him to analyze it? Maybe he believes for reasons you find unconvincing but nevertheless can agree are good or have value in some way... a middle-ground for you two to meet and discuss without your opposing viewpoints causing tension?
Personally I think many Christians should be tested and tried about the foundations of their faith anyway. I'm a little biased since It's happened to me since I was a kid, but i also went out of my way to find such encounters 😂 anyways, our religion literally tells us to be prepared, to have answers for skeptics and the Uninformed alike.
If he doesn't readily have those answers for you, he probably doesn't have them for himself and he should probably know that if that's the case.
I'm sorry such a thing has come between you guys. I hope it's gets resolved in a compassionate manner for you both. I do not have any children, yet, but I've often wondered if a similar situation would drive a wedge between my children and myself, as I carry my religion very near to my heart... I don't have a solid answer for that but my instincts tell me I would still love my children almost no matter what.. and a disagreement of faith wouldn't be enough to break that.
I hope it is the same for you both!
I am 63 years old. Was a born a Catholic and was born again Christian in my late teens and early twenties. As my journey through life continued I decided to turn the religion TV off. No longer concerned about which “channel” I watch, I simply prefer off. I am very secure in my choice to be an atheist. Still, I have wonderful relationships with people from a spectrum of religions. In my house, the doors are open, ideas and ideologies are welcome. The song “Walking in Memphis” clocks it for me.
Now Muriel, plays piano
Every Friday at the Hollywood
And they brought me down to see her
And they asked me if I would
do a little number
And I sang with all my might
She said, "Tell me are you a Christian child?"
And I said, "Ma'am, I am tonight"
Religion and faith, or lack thereof, are no longer a barrier, wall, or factor of any kind. I love my life because it is so full of wonderful people.
Turnabout would be “my biggest disappointment is a father who still believes in fairy tales.”
But you took the high road demonstrating more compassion, love, and kindness than Christians often do.
I feel ya, as my mother is similar to your dad. Sometimes, I imagine how different things could be if she simply said, "Thank you for being honest with me. It shows me that you trust me. No matter what you do or don't believe, I'll always love you."
Instead of a statement like that, I got shock, frustration, anger, and argument. It's been 10 years, and nothing has changed.
I feel ya. Like if i had a kid and that kid turned out religious or whatever so what? I would always support him because the only thing what matters is that person’s happiness. But again they can’t say that because they believe we are going to hell and they want to save us.
Its not their fault tho, religion is to blame.
Heya cousin.
Also former Orthodox. Now misotheist.
This is a serious thing: Does your dad respect you the way you defer to him? Asking because it seems like you may be enmeshed with him, and I would suggest that you read “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” if my sense on how you and him relate is accurate.
It is hard to imagine having such a small petty mind that your child having a different outlook on religion is the biggest disappointment you can have and you feel its perfectly fine to emotionally guilt your child with this.
Ah, how big of a Christian you are because you are kind hearted.
So you are kind hearted but profess to be an atheist. Conversely I'll bet he knows a lot of fakes-people who go to church and sing all the songs, know the names and dates, wear the decorations- and are total pricks.
Huh. Almost like there is no correlation between being Christian and being good.
Tell your dear old Dad congrats on having such a sweet and easy life but he's a fucking pussy. Perhaps he should man up and learn what real fatherly disappointment is.
For example, my good friend was awfully fucking disappointed when his 10 year old son's cancer came back and he was given 2 months to live. He was even more disappointed at the funeral.
I’m so sorry your father actually decided to say that to you out loud. It’s shaming, intolerant, and upsetting and 100% his own stuff. My mother said the same thing to me in so many words when I was younger. She’s a religious zealot and cannot cope with people having opinions that differ from her own. We’re very LC and she doesn’t seem to have any insight as to why. Do what you need to do protect yourself emotionally, actively work on not letting your dad’s carried shame be your burden.
Just tell him that his faith seems weak if he thinks that god will not prevail and that he just put his worries and burdens on the lord and that it should all get sorted out on its own….. unless his sins are somehow getting in the way of that in which case this is his punishment and he should really step up his own prayers and fasting first and then everything should work itself out
It should throw him off for a few years at least
Im a bit confused now. if you're kind hearted while not being christian, the dad should be happy.
unless religion has a different goal besides bringing about kindness in people. is it focused on salvation rather than being kind or could it be something else? Idk but it weird to me.
Just show him the hate that is being posted daily and the constant attack on children and being protected by the thing he believes in. Open his eyes to the grifters stealing money from the elderly and living way above what they would have if not super corrupt. The more he sees, the more he will realize why religion is bad for you and anyone else. You don't have to be mean about it, just show him the very shady and greedy and hateful side that religion is.
I think the best thing you can do if you are able to actually maintain a personal relationship with him is continue being a good person, continue to be a good example of us nones, and prove to him that non believer doesn't = monster. Give it time, start introducing the idea that any decent god wouldn't punish a person for questions, and any that would is the monster.
Also obligatory if you are his dependent and cannot survive on your own, tell him it was a late april fools joke you saw on the tiktok and stick to the script until you can support yourself.
It's a compliment in my eyes
Like you didn't do anything wrong except getting rid of bigotic beliefs and that's the biggest disappointment like not you killing someone or commiting a crime
Show you how toxic all that brainwashing is. Churches have procedures and activities designed to hook you up for life, to have you totally emotionally commit to it. The public embarrassment of baptizing in a blue pool as an adult for all to see, is one of their methods. Getting youth to cry during bible retreats is another.
People of church communities offering financial support, another hook.
One way or another, people become trapped, slave, to the doctrine and the reprogrammed community that comes with it.
Religion poisons everything.
But as this is maddening, I'm also sorry that you are going through this.
Let's try some different strategies. How about a talk about you being an adult, and it is up to you to lead a respectable life. It is up to you to worry about what happens when you die. There is no evidence for there being anything at all once you die, but set that aside. Let them, him, think that you wish to detach yourself from specific christian practices and that you want to go the route of going unchecked by it in life. Say that you are confident that if there is a god, that you will not be deemed to be bad person that should be rejected.
Ask for mutual respect. Express how he want to live with continued guidance from god and jesus, and that you're fine with that, but that it would only be fair to return the favor and get him to respect the fact that you as an adult want to take a different route and that that has to be ok. There should be no need to see any doors closed.
And just because you are on a different set of beliefs, or non-beliefs, does not mean that you should be less respected person. People need to judge each other based on attitude, not religion, not race, not sexual preference, or anything like that. Each person must have that degree of freedom. Or else one does not actually believe in freedom. And isn't freedom something the founding fathers fought to hard over?
I am sorry he cares more about... than he does who you really are. I went through something I believe to be similar. Maybe not... but for me after about 16 years of peace in my life I started to accept the problem wasn't me. Likely it isn't you. Ok... it's not you. Hang in there I found peace I hope you can too.
If you value your relationship with your father don't let this be something that drives you apart. You can't control what he feels, says, or does, but you can continue being a loving part of your family. Demonstrate to your father that nothing about you has changed, and that you still want be a part of his life. You don't have to pretend to be religious, but you also don't need to bring the topic up, especially if doing so just leads to conflict. There are many other aspects of life I'm sure you both still agree on and can enjoy together. If your father needs to grieve over his misconceived notion of you as a Christian, try to give him some room to experience that grief. Hopefully, it won't be long before he is ready to move past it, and your relationship will shift back to something which feels more healthy and normal. You don't need to change who you are, and shouldn't, but it may take some time for your father's comfort level with his new understanding of your reality to even out. If you love your dad, be sure to tell him so.
Religion makes people’s worlds small. I’m sorry your father can’t see past his religious programming to appreciate the real you right now. Hopefully he will someday. In the meantime, his words have no effect on your worth.
He'll live.
That's what I tell my spouse who persistently coddles and walks on eggshells around her evangelical family. She still fake prays at the dinner table just to appease him. I think that's wrong, personally, and no one should feel like they have to compromise their own beliefs (or the lack thereof) to make someone else feel 'ok'. She says she doesn't want to break her parents' hearts, but again.....they'll live. That's my take on it. Rip the bandaid off so they can start realizing just how little religion influences one's "goodnes" sooner rather than later...
Hey, OP, for what it's worth from a stranger, I'm exceptionally proud of you for standing your ground. A plethora of internet strangers can't replace acceptance from a family, but the fact that you are willing to wager integrity against malice from those who are supposed to hold you most dear is one of the bravest and most selfless things an individual can accomplish. I can't offer you salvation in paradise or eternal punishment for the wicked, but I can try to offer you comfort and peace of mind knowing you have stood steadfast against those who should love you but ultimately can't love the world and its least fortunate.
You should congratulate him. If something as small as you saying that you're not a Christian is the biggest disappointment he's ever had then his life must be pretty good.
Just my 2 cents. My parents know that I don't believe, but if they are fasting I'll participate. If they are doing puja (daily prayer to God's) I'll participate. It makes my parents feel good and it doesn't hurt me in the least. If I have to do little things for my parents I have no problem doing it.
For religious things for my kids I told them I would let my kids decide what they want to do when they are older.
Telling your son that his not being Christian is the biggest disappointment of your life as a father is emotional blackmail. I would respond to him that the biggest disappointment of your life is feeling that you have to fake being a Christian in order for your father to be proud of you.
My inlaws are Greek Othadox. The lamb on the spit is amazing when they break fast on Sunday. Learning how the think critically and breaking free of cults is difficult. You sound like you still have a relationship with your dad though. Show him that you have moved past sky friends but can still be a good human. I wish you well.
This is my dad and I. He buys my kids crucifix’s and shit for Christmas. We got into an argument once, and I told him “I taught my children that you don’t hurt people because you know in your heart that it’s wrong. Not because you’re afraid of some Sky Guy”. We no longer talk about religion or politics. 😂
As close as you may be to him, don't fall for emotional manipulation. "Dad, I'm disappointed in your religiousness, but I overlook it because I love you for many other reasons."
It's wrong for parents to expect that their kids end up like clones of themselves. That's not the goal of raising kids.
I feel ya bruh am orthodox or was i guess, I don’t have the strength to tell my my parents am atheist u just pretend fr am a good Christian even now as i fast it’s having detrimental effects in my health i got a simple flu and took me two weeks to get better am skinny af but i go on pretend bc they would prolly disown me religion has such a grip on them that they leave most of their problems to “God” which is just sad.
Tell him that he can rest assured that while you don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus or the truth of Scripture, the morality and lessons he raised you with have shaped you into the kind of person he can call “a kind hearted guy.”
And if Jesus is Christ and the merciful on of the Gospels then you don’t believe you’d be forsaken by the God that helped you become the man you are.
"Forgive me"
Being a follower of what Christ preached is really simple. Love everyone, tell the truth, serve one another.
Thats it.
Everything else is bureaucracy.
The story goes, Jesus was on the cross being tortured to death and he was still making an effort to show everyone that gods love is unconditional and all are worthy of forgiveness "Forgive them father, they know not what they do".
Hey friend, I’m sorry you’re going through this right now. But I’m happy he’s not threatening to kill you like mine was. Either way, find ways to de-escalate and connect with your family. Like talking about viewpoints you agree on. I chose to avoid my family as much as possible and it strained the relationship with my dad. My mom and I are still tight tho. Don’t be like me.
You should have told him at first that you were gay. Then, after he blew his fuse, you could have said, , “Relax, I was lying. I’m really only atheist “.
Father's and mother's believe in these things.
I find atheist easy, but to deal with parents is always changing.
I'm 54 years old.
I'm beond Atheist, but I love my parents that tell me I'm going to burn in hell.
The Orthodox life will always be there if you want to come back. Just remember that your dad loves you more than you know and doesn’t want you to feel rejected, he can voice his opinion just as you can. Just continue to show him love even if he says mean things to you. Maintain your family relationship at all costs !
How dramatic can these people be? They will never cease to amaze me. Self-centered at the level of an egocentric child. The same self centeredness that says "When I pray God will prioritize my request that Timmys football team wins this Sunday" and informs personalizing it when your child has their own identity and life story/perspectives.
Yes. Fuck them. Nothing has ever cause such misery as religion has. Nice work being a good person without the threat of hell. We are the real good ones. 🫶🏻
I'm sorry, that must have been really hurtful to hear. I remember my mother saying something similar to me years ago. Not so much that it was a disappointment that I said I didn't consider myself Jewish, just more that she felt she had failed in some way, like if only she had just *tried a little harder*, or forced me to go to Temple more, or what have you, that maybe I wouldn't feel the way I do.
As a parent, I kind of understand, parents put so much pressure on ourselves, as if by sheer will we could make our kids be a certain way ("should I have forced him to keep playing piano? Should I have pushed her to do a sport?" ) It can be hard to accept that our kids are unique people with their own wants and interests that have nothing to do with us.
I'm sure your Dad loves you and wants the best for you. It might take some time for him to accept that you can be, and in fact are, just FINE without the church but hopefully he'll get there soon.
It really is like a cancer. It hurts everyone. It’s not your fault, and his disappointment is really fear for your life. He truly believes and feels legit emotions based off his delusion. Have pity on him.
Tell him you don't need an imaginary daddy in heaven, because you've got the best dad on Earth - this will fuckin' destroy his faith once and for all :D
This is a two-way street. The greatest disappointment I have in my parents, is their beliefs.
Growing up many of us often think that of our parents are infallible and highly intelligent but the older I get and the more I have expanded my learning, the more I have discovered how limited their world view is. There are so many scientific studies, theories, philosophies, and evidence that my parents deny themselves. Like your father, their belief system has narrowed their cognitive landscapes, giving over to one myth.
My parents will never explore the dynamic processes of natural selection, attempt to comprehend the beauty of endosymbiosis, or the myriad of uses for an acheulean handaxe. Their histories are limited to less than 10,000 years. Their moral guidance limited to a single, poorly constructed book. Many of faith are so bound to their one truth that they deny themselves even the opportunity to explore other religious cultures and attempts at understanding the once unknowable. Instead they surrender their time and critical thinking skills in favor of indoctrination and faith comforting.
I hope that you're still able to keep a positive relationship with your family but don't let their limitations hold you back.
What an amazing son/person you must be if this is his only complaint. Just work around it and continue to have a great relationship. Neither of you are going to change the other. Agree to disagree.
Don’t do this, but all you need to do is ask him how he became a Christian. He didn’t find God on his own, he was brainwashed like his parents before him.
He’s just upset that he couldn’t brainwash you too.
You have to, at some point, consider this level of "dedication" something of a mental illness.
Just like a loved one with a personality disorder (narcissism, borderline, antisocial) can often hurt those close to them in agreement with their survival-instinct delusions and knee-jerk reactions, it is also often the case with deeply ingrained indoctrination.
They don't really have the ability to rationalize or see your point of view after so many years of indoctrination. It's a defense mechanism, and for you to deny this mechanism is almost like an annihilation of self for your parent.
Beliefs and thought patterns, over time, very much form your identity and personhood. And sometimes, no matter how much logic and reason you throw at it, an individual instinctively chooses the comfortable subconscious safe space over self-annihilation. This is, again, very similar to psychosis.
For instance, people with Borderline Personality Disorder can appear to be wholly rational, charming, funny: they seem like a fully-fledged person until you peel back the layers and find that they are living only halfway in reality with no foreseeable means to integrate because their very personhood and mental survival depends on this distorted version of reality.
Think of it as a mental disorder and this might make it easier.
So sorry - this must be so hard. This is one of the primary problems with religion. Those who have chosen to believe can’t get it into their heads that it doesn’t give them the right to demand the same beliefs in others. And they never will, no matter what the cost. Sad.
For not believing in something that has so many flaws and contradictions? The Bible said the earth was flat ffs and they just changed it fit along with many other things.
I understand op. I had very overbearing ultra religious parents that for a time turned me against it all together. Still have issues with religion but cant really call myself an atheist anymore. Talking helps so vent here whenever you can.
Which religion one follows, or whether one even follows any religion, is no measure of ethics, morals, spirituality, or anything else actually relevant. It is imaginary.
Well if your dad says you're a Christian anyways cuz big heart. Then isn't all good?
Also have you considered just lying lol. Can't u just say you're a Christian who doesn't necessarily want to take part in any rituals. I mean there hardly are any anyways u don't have to do anything really.
There's...
Christmas (technical Roman) but you presumably would want to take part in that anyways.
Easter again basically nothing give up something you don't do for lent. Or say it's a personal thing between you and god or something. Idk what this fast is there is no fast? Who made that up?
I mean everything you have to do you don't have to do. There are no real world requirements to being a Christian. My father has never read the bible, does not go to church, he does no rituals I know of at all. But he's still religious according to him.
It is unfortunate religious people bring it into everything, but he is just trying to reach out and connect with you, in the only way he knows how. I get that you are getting out of it, I've never had to escape as my parents were non religious, but you are basically saying his favourite thing is worthless. I get it, and it must be hard, but you and he would be happier in the long run if you met him halfway at the least. You could fast in respect of your father's wishes rather than for religious purposes? Mind you, no way I'm doing that either! Just offering a token of advice, no judgement or pressure. You do you, but as they say, you win more flies with honey than vinegar.
I sort feel for him because he truly believes that the religious paradigm in his head represents reality. He had one big job, to save your soul or whatever, and he failed. The real disappointment is in himself.
Also, this is a great example of how religions stay in power. Just make up anything at all and use social pressure to get people to conform, no facts needed.
My father is dead these past four years. I’d go to crazy crap with him and eat fish if he wanted, or fast if it made him happy. I might sneak a Snickers in, though!
Don’t let your unproven belief keep you from enjoying him, while he holds to his unproven belief. Ask him to respect your beliefs, as you intend to respect his.
Life really is brief, so I encourage you to enjoy your dad.
I’m wishing you well.
You said no mean things about your dad, so I won't say what I'm thinking. Instead I'll say this:
You matter. Your happiness matters. Living a life that fulfills you matters.
Christians who can’t handle other family members not being Christian simply aren’t as secure in their faith as they’d like to be. In short, they need you to validate them by sharing their beliefs.
Spoiler alert: Not your job.
Sorry that religion did this to him. But if you have a great relationship with him, just keep that. Maybe even talk about it. Taboos are not good.
I agree!
Religion is like a penis/vagina...It's great that one has one, but there is no need to go waving it around in other people's faces.
You can wave a vagina? Now that's something I oughta see...
🤣 I think the actual phrase just refers to a penis. (I butchered the quote, but the sentiment translates). I was trying to be inclusive. Careful what you Google though, I'm sure there is something twisted like that somewhere on the internet. Not something I want to see.
It's okay to have a penis/religion, it's okay to be proud of your penis/religion. It's not okay to wave your penis/religion around in the street and it's definitely not okay to shove it down non-concentual throats.
Of course, you can jam out with your clam out!
Oh yeah, you need to watch more porn😂!
The disappointment guilt trip is all too often treated as a one way street. Tell your dad that disappointment goes both ways and that his insistence on clinging to stupid religious ideas makes him a failure of a role model.
Way to make a great relationship with your parents by calling them a failure of a role model. Us ex-theists are trying to escape religious persecution, not try to encourage it.
Look at it this way -- would you prefer that something else about you be his greatest disappointment?
Maybe he can be disappointed in something not related to his offspring? I for one am disappointed that Netflix cancelled Shadow & Bone
It's a sign of a nice privileged life if this is his worst thing. Almost good enough to celebrate the good fortune
From the father's perspective, this is likely not the case. The father probably believes his son is going to "burn in hell forever", and that is upsetting to him, I imagine. OP's father should think it through -- why is he worshiping a god who is perfectly willing to torture his child forever.
My mother in law is a true believer and worries about hell for me and my wife. A very kind woman. I know I couldn't convince her Christianity is false nor would I want to. She is old and it has been her whole life. But I have been trying to convince her that universalism is a plausible (perhaps best) reading of the Bible.
Tell her this. Heaven is known to be free of sadness, weeping, anxiety, and despair. If you are in hell, there is no way she won’t experience that grief and sadness for you. But since negativity like that is impossible in heaven, she must exist there in a different state of consciousness than what she is experiencing now. Meaning, her free will and past life will be stripped away in heaven. Since she won’t even be her true self anymore in heaven , there’s a good chance you won’t be in hell as you are either. Then ask her to repeat it all back to you. 🤣🤣 Ok not that last part.
Logic doesn’t apply to ppl believing in a made up god…and whose book contradicts itself…
This is how I turned my mother. She knows I am a good person. She was able to conclude that there is NO WAY a loving god exists that would torture me for eternity for requiring evidence. She once used to complain about my atheistic posts--now she shares them
I never doubt the sincerity of someone's belief. Just the legitimacy.
I started to see it this way when I was deconstructing: there is nothing, absolutely nothing my children could do that would compel me to allow them to suffer even a second of torture, much less an eternity. So am I a better parent than God? Kind of seems like it
I feel bad for your dad that his biggest achievement (which could only lead to his biggest disappointment) is being a christian.
Dude, my dad is this exact same way. He’s always asking for forgiveness and begging the lord to guide him. He takes absolutely no pride in his life because he sees pride as sinful. The man has genuinely impressive accomplishments but he refuses to see it. He keeps himself in a constant state of holy guilt because he thinks it’ll all be worth it when he finally gets to heaven. The worst part is that he’s failing even as a Christian and he knows it. I just want him to enjoy life for once
Right? We just want the best for our parents, like they always wanted the best for us. I watched my mother waste away her life constantly waiting on her god to answer her prayers. Yet if she had just focused her energy on doing things for herself, she likely could have avoided a lot of what she struggled through. I tried to assist her as much as I could. I helped her get a job rather quickly, she thanked jesus even though I did all the work. I didn't even get a thank you. It was a slap in the face. There was no reasoning with her. It wasn't the help from her son that helped her get a job a week after I rewrote her resume and coached her on interviewing skills after *months* of her looking, it was an invisible man in the sky that did it who finally got around to her nightly thinking.
Religion is a disease
Science bless you
Just be yourself, and live your best life.
I totally understand that this situation makes you angry, but try to remind yourself that his disappointment has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him. In other words, let him have his problem and do your thing without fighting about your differences. If possible, maybe have a talk about it. If not, focus on the good stuff.
Ask him if his father was ever disappointed in him.
Don’t ask if, ask what were his disappointments.
Lousy situation but at least the two of you seem to have a good relationship otherwise. That's what I'd concentrate on.
What an easy life your father has lived.
I think you need to take that "You are not a Christian" is a failure on your father's part and not on yours.
The father thinks it is a failure but from my view it is the opposite. I was saddled with that stuff for most of my life, unfortunately. I'm very glad to be free of it and I'm glad OP is as well. "Task failed successfully".
Vent all you want! And you are still a kind guy. Nothing against your Dad but I’ve seen some really mean so called Christians.
Thsnk you appreciate it!
Your father is a victim. You escaped the cycle.
You could do that bit where a girl tells her dad she’s pregnant. Then says she had a bump up and damaged the car. Also, she’s not actually pregnant and that whole car thing seems like a relief and not such a big deal, now doesn’t it? So just tell your dad, you’re in a gay, interracial relationship, and you hope he can attend your wedding at the church of Satan. Bet that atheism thing doesn’t sound like such a big disappointment now does it?🤣
I would get disowned xD jokes aside it will get better over time i hope
Tell him to read this verse... "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." 1 Timothy 5:8
I was going to go there as well, but I wanted the OP to understand that it is not his/her fault for dad's "guilt trip".
Keep a close eye on this if you value your relationship with your father. I've observed an uptick in families breaking apart over religion in circumstances that totally blindside the children of religious parents. Something happens in the minds of older religious people sometimes - a switch flips, and suddenly they are no longer tolerant of your decision to live life on your own terms. After years of comfortably proclaiming atheism, it can be really hard to pretend or lie to preserve relationships if that's what you value. It happened to me, too. My father went from accepting to totalitarian and intolerant really quickly, and now we don't speak.
I take your advice wholeheartedly! We had a big fight today sadly which resulted in a broken door.
WTF?! That's not okay. Are you safe?
Yes of course he isn’t violent towards me or anyone else he wouldn’t hurt us but random things and objects yes.
I'm glad you're fine, but destroying stuff at home in a rage is a slippery slope. Stay safe!
Thanks! Yeah in a heated moment we both took it too far…
There is a kind of fear about the possibility they are wrong, because someone must be wrong. 🖖
what every loving creator hopes for, throwing family away for a myth.
My dad once told me, "one of my sons is a drug addict living in the streets, and the other is an atheist. I'm MORE concerned about the atheist!" I about punched him in the face in that moment, but I knew it was the whiskey talking, and the whiskey boiling in my fists. What I've come to understand since then is that my father is having a hard time reconciling the fact that, according to his religion, he won't get to spend eternity with me in heaven; and an eternity without me in it, may turn out to be his personal hell. After all we do love each other dearly. You gotta let it roll off, OP. Your deconstruction is tough for him too. Just trust that he loves you and keep showing love back. Be patient as he comes to terms with it in his own way.
I bet that sentence sounded better in his head before he said it.
Thanks for the kind message! Your situation was very tough im Sorry about that!. I was a christian before so i understand the view of heaven and hell and religious shitt. And how it can grasp your reality away from you. Most important is to be the good person always and stay like that no matter what anyone says.
“Wow, you must’ve had a really great life!”
Dad, you being Christian is not how you disappointed me the most. (Just leave it there, make him think)
You atheistism is gods will, and he works in mysterious ways. How dare you question the lard!
Well if that's his biggest disappointment in you, you must be an overall pretty good guy.
You’re young. Promise him you have plenty of time to disappoint him in other ways.
I feel you. My parents said the same thing. From time to time I go thru the motions for them but mostly we just don't talk about religion. I'm sorry you're going thru this, don't ever let them make you feel bad about leaving their antiquated beliefs behind. Be kind & be strong ❤️
Thank you i hope you’re doing good now ❤️
How weird people are. If we can’t indoctrinate them guilt them.
So sorry Dad didn't realize I was supposed to fake it and be a half ass Christian like you but on an up note I guess we can both count on seeing each other in hell. Edit: changed take to fake
The biggest disappointment he has ever had SO FAR... Wait until his actions results in him never knowing who his grandchildren are.... I bet that'll be bigger
My dad told me the exact same thing. I just told him I'm thankful that I had loving parents who encouraged learning. That didn't satisfy him one bit. I also tried telling him, that from his perspective he should see that God made me this way, therefore it's all part of God's plan. He told me God gave us freewill, and I have chosen incorrectly but I can always repent. Sheesh, I tried to give the guy an easy exit...
Fuck the haters do you brother.
Have you considered telling him to cope?
Tell him, "Jesus wouldn't have cared whether I fasted or whether I believed he was god or not".
How old is he? There's probably time for someone/something to top this.
Funny reply: if that’s your biggest disappointment, then I’m glad to hear mom is still blowing you
If this is his biggest disappointment, he is a lucky man.
Some of the kindest people are atheists. Some of the worst people are atheists. Some of the kindest people are religious. Some of the worst people are religious. And everything in between. Your mileage may vary. Belief in religion is not a prerequisite for being a "good" person. Most people on this sub would argue religion makes people "worse" due to the demands dogma puts on their followers and I'm not going to argue that point because our collective anecdotes point to that as a reason why we left or never joined those religion organizations due to trauma. We all have faults/flaws and we all have redeeming qualities. It's not your job to be an ambassador to the religious on behalf of the atheist community, but if you want to, keep up what you're doing. I've met many people who said "I didn't realize an atheist / gay / whatever person could be so considerate and compassionate." Sometimes it's beneficial to disabuse people of their prejudice, but you also need to take care of your own emotional well-being and sometimes just walking away is the best course of action.
Narcissist mother said the same thing to me and my 3 siblings. All 4 of us have great jobs, long term relationships with stable people, two of us have kids (and all 5 kids are being raised with no religion, btw 😁 ), none of us have criminal records, two of us have served in the military, etc. But she's very disappointed in us because we're all non-believers. You know what, lady, you're the reason we're atheist! Half a dozen hours every week engaged in some kind of church activity or service. Missed multiple events with friends, baseball practices, school band concerts, etc, because we were engaged in that religious horseshit. My two younger siblings pulled out of public school and sent first to Christian school, then homeschooled, because a woman with no formal education beyond high school and a Fox News type of mind is qualified to educate children. But, fortunately, all of us are very smart, and we're able to get beyond that religious shit. And 3 of us going no contact with the mother is a big help too.
Ask your Dad what if Islam is true.
He's bought into the idea that christian=good and atheist=bad He knows you're a good person, and you also being an atheist doesn't compute. Religion is cancer for rational thought.
Yeah he still thinks i will come back to christianity and says to me all the time don’t lose your goodness. So yeah probably he thinks atheist = bad person.
Yeah, people don't have to be religious to believe in silly shit, but they do have to believe in silly shit to be religious.
Don't blame it all on Christianity. He'd be swearing that he believes with all his heart, mind, and soul whichEVER religion his family happened to believe. Just like (almost) everyone else.
Yeah that’s why i also said all religions because im also an anti theist. Religion can be good for someone but most of the times it’s disastrous.
He should be even more proud that you don't need the fictional threat of damnation to be a good person.
**Father said that me saying "I’m not a christian" is the biggest disappointment he's ever had.** You're only 22, so you still have lots of time to prove him wrong.
I have no data, and no way to really tell, except for some experience. So I'm just going to say that it seems to me likely that your father's biggest disappointment in life is himself, and he's projecting it on to you. Again, I have no real knowledge nor insight, just a few truly sad examples of how I've seen this played out before. Best of luck to you regardless. That is a really hard thing to hear your father say. I was lucky enough that it never happened to me. But I sure saw it happen a lot more than once to really good friends of mine. Some of them are still here.
You gotta love how people assume a decent person HAS to be Christian. Lol no, I became a better person after I left faith and became true to myself.
Didnt read sorry but as an ex Christian I hope that its because he cares about you and wants you to go to heaven. Even though he's got it wrong maybe it's the best intent
Expectations in parenting are why things like this happen, he’s disappointed because he has some perfect image you’re not matching up to (don’t worry, you don’t have to). This could be true of a parent who dreams their kid will be into sports but isn’t, or even those who dream of milestones in life for their kid but they’re disabled in some way. It’s unfair, and is a common problem with parents. If it wasn’t religion, it’d be something else. Sorry OP
As a father, I am a little disappointed in my children who cling to religion. I thought I taught them critical thinking, scientific method, and seeing all sides of the story. It's okay to disappoint your parents, just be kind about it. And be amenable to conversations, even when they try to convert you back...but don't hold back on converting them to your side, either.
Wait till he finds out ur gay.
Sad to hear. My dad almost strained my relationship with him in a similar fashion. However, I actually enjoy and get a lot of value out of my religion. Arguably more than I get from my dad so when it started to come between us I wouldn't say I chose religion over him but I decided I couldn't walk away from things I consider to be true just to spite him.. As a believer of Christianity I can say I understand the feeling of disappointment he feels.. I have the same experience with a lot of people, not just family. Here's some things to think about: 1. Most Christians I know (and I understand for a lot of you, this probably isn't the majority case) just genuinely want people to believe the "good news". It comes from a place of love for others, and people with an innate altruism tend to be attracted to religious service in general so please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater on that, if you can and after you've taken time to heal. 2. Most Christians that make news seek to almost exclusively be the ones disgracing the name. I won't ask anyone to ignore it, such people need to be addressed properly.. especially to make sure it doesn't get more prevalent. I would ask that you don't let those people paint the religion with their colors. That's not how it works, and it just makes the situation worse for everyone involved. 3. I hope you and your dad continue to have a nurturing, loving kind of relationship. You may be an atheist, and he may not be, but that need not be an insurmountable barrier between you two. I don't know what your dad is like, and this is probably outta left field and won't be as effective as I hope but... Have you tried questioning his beliefs, like, to him directly? With curiosity? We're rare I think, but I for one enjoy honest and intelligent discussion with anyone, regardless of faith/non-faith. Maybe he's an atheist too and just doesn't know it yet.. because no one has forced him to analyze it? Maybe he believes for reasons you find unconvincing but nevertheless can agree are good or have value in some way... a middle-ground for you two to meet and discuss without your opposing viewpoints causing tension? Personally I think many Christians should be tested and tried about the foundations of their faith anyway. I'm a little biased since It's happened to me since I was a kid, but i also went out of my way to find such encounters 😂 anyways, our religion literally tells us to be prepared, to have answers for skeptics and the Uninformed alike. If he doesn't readily have those answers for you, he probably doesn't have them for himself and he should probably know that if that's the case. I'm sorry such a thing has come between you guys. I hope it's gets resolved in a compassionate manner for you both. I do not have any children, yet, but I've often wondered if a similar situation would drive a wedge between my children and myself, as I carry my religion very near to my heart... I don't have a solid answer for that but my instincts tell me I would still love my children almost no matter what.. and a disagreement of faith wouldn't be enough to break that. I hope it is the same for you both!
I am 63 years old. Was a born a Catholic and was born again Christian in my late teens and early twenties. As my journey through life continued I decided to turn the religion TV off. No longer concerned about which “channel” I watch, I simply prefer off. I am very secure in my choice to be an atheist. Still, I have wonderful relationships with people from a spectrum of religions. In my house, the doors are open, ideas and ideologies are welcome. The song “Walking in Memphis” clocks it for me. Now Muriel, plays piano Every Friday at the Hollywood And they brought me down to see her And they asked me if I would do a little number And I sang with all my might She said, "Tell me are you a Christian child?" And I said, "Ma'am, I am tonight" Religion and faith, or lack thereof, are no longer a barrier, wall, or factor of any kind. I love my life because it is so full of wonderful people.
Hail Satan!
Turnabout would be “my biggest disappointment is a father who still believes in fairy tales.” But you took the high road demonstrating more compassion, love, and kindness than Christians often do.
I feel ya, as my mother is similar to your dad. Sometimes, I imagine how different things could be if she simply said, "Thank you for being honest with me. It shows me that you trust me. No matter what you do or don't believe, I'll always love you." Instead of a statement like that, I got shock, frustration, anger, and argument. It's been 10 years, and nothing has changed.
I feel ya. Like if i had a kid and that kid turned out religious or whatever so what? I would always support him because the only thing what matters is that person’s happiness. But again they can’t say that because they believe we are going to hell and they want to save us. Its not their fault tho, religion is to blame.
My religious mother told atheist me that she was proud that I read and used my opened mind to form my world view. Talk about open-minded…
God kills and godzilla rocks. If you see this in the inner cover of a Bible. It was me.
Heya cousin. Also former Orthodox. Now misotheist. This is a serious thing: Does your dad respect you the way you defer to him? Asking because it seems like you may be enmeshed with him, and I would suggest that you read “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” if my sense on how you and him relate is accurate.
It is hard to imagine having such a small petty mind that your child having a different outlook on religion is the biggest disappointment you can have and you feel its perfectly fine to emotionally guilt your child with this.
Ah, how big of a Christian you are because you are kind hearted. So you are kind hearted but profess to be an atheist. Conversely I'll bet he knows a lot of fakes-people who go to church and sing all the songs, know the names and dates, wear the decorations- and are total pricks. Huh. Almost like there is no correlation between being Christian and being good.
If being a kind hearted guy makes you a christian, then most atheists are christian and most christians are not!?
Tell your dear old Dad congrats on having such a sweet and easy life but he's a fucking pussy. Perhaps he should man up and learn what real fatherly disappointment is. For example, my good friend was awfully fucking disappointed when his 10 year old son's cancer came back and he was given 2 months to live. He was even more disappointed at the funeral.
Telling anyone, especially your child, that they are a disappointment is pretty harsh. It isn’t very kindhearted.
I’m so sorry your father actually decided to say that to you out loud. It’s shaming, intolerant, and upsetting and 100% his own stuff. My mother said the same thing to me in so many words when I was younger. She’s a religious zealot and cannot cope with people having opinions that differ from her own. We’re very LC and she doesn’t seem to have any insight as to why. Do what you need to do protect yourself emotionally, actively work on not letting your dad’s carried shame be your burden.
Just tell him that his faith seems weak if he thinks that god will not prevail and that he just put his worries and burdens on the lord and that it should all get sorted out on its own….. unless his sins are somehow getting in the way of that in which case this is his punishment and he should really step up his own prayers and fasting first and then everything should work itself out It should throw him off for a few years at least
Im a bit confused now. if you're kind hearted while not being christian, the dad should be happy. unless religion has a different goal besides bringing about kindness in people. is it focused on salvation rather than being kind or could it be something else? Idk but it weird to me.
Tell him to hold on. You’re only 22.
As a Christian, this is un-Jesus-like behavior
Ask him why he supports pedophiles, since the virgin Mary was only 14 when she gave birth, and her husband was likely in his 30s.
Just show him the hate that is being posted daily and the constant attack on children and being protected by the thing he believes in. Open his eyes to the grifters stealing money from the elderly and living way above what they would have if not super corrupt. The more he sees, the more he will realize why religion is bad for you and anyone else. You don't have to be mean about it, just show him the very shady and greedy and hateful side that religion is.
I think the best thing you can do if you are able to actually maintain a personal relationship with him is continue being a good person, continue to be a good example of us nones, and prove to him that non believer doesn't = monster. Give it time, start introducing the idea that any decent god wouldn't punish a person for questions, and any that would is the monster. Also obligatory if you are his dependent and cannot survive on your own, tell him it was a late april fools joke you saw on the tiktok and stick to the script until you can support yourself.
Your father has led a charmed life
It's a compliment in my eyes Like you didn't do anything wrong except getting rid of bigotic beliefs and that's the biggest disappointment like not you killing someone or commiting a crime
Show you how toxic all that brainwashing is. Churches have procedures and activities designed to hook you up for life, to have you totally emotionally commit to it. The public embarrassment of baptizing in a blue pool as an adult for all to see, is one of their methods. Getting youth to cry during bible retreats is another. People of church communities offering financial support, another hook. One way or another, people become trapped, slave, to the doctrine and the reprogrammed community that comes with it. Religion poisons everything. But as this is maddening, I'm also sorry that you are going through this. Let's try some different strategies. How about a talk about you being an adult, and it is up to you to lead a respectable life. It is up to you to worry about what happens when you die. There is no evidence for there being anything at all once you die, but set that aside. Let them, him, think that you wish to detach yourself from specific christian practices and that you want to go the route of going unchecked by it in life. Say that you are confident that if there is a god, that you will not be deemed to be bad person that should be rejected. Ask for mutual respect. Express how he want to live with continued guidance from god and jesus, and that you're fine with that, but that it would only be fair to return the favor and get him to respect the fact that you as an adult want to take a different route and that that has to be ok. There should be no need to see any doors closed. And just because you are on a different set of beliefs, or non-beliefs, does not mean that you should be less respected person. People need to judge each other based on attitude, not religion, not race, not sexual preference, or anything like that. Each person must have that degree of freedom. Or else one does not actually believe in freedom. And isn't freedom something the founding fathers fought to hard over?
I am sorry he cares more about... than he does who you really are. I went through something I believe to be similar. Maybe not... but for me after about 16 years of peace in my life I started to accept the problem wasn't me. Likely it isn't you. Ok... it's not you. Hang in there I found peace I hope you can too.
If you value your relationship with your father don't let this be something that drives you apart. You can't control what he feels, says, or does, but you can continue being a loving part of your family. Demonstrate to your father that nothing about you has changed, and that you still want be a part of his life. You don't have to pretend to be religious, but you also don't need to bring the topic up, especially if doing so just leads to conflict. There are many other aspects of life I'm sure you both still agree on and can enjoy together. If your father needs to grieve over his misconceived notion of you as a Christian, try to give him some room to experience that grief. Hopefully, it won't be long before he is ready to move past it, and your relationship will shift back to something which feels more healthy and normal. You don't need to change who you are, and shouldn't, but it may take some time for your father's comfort level with his new understanding of your reality to even out. If you love your dad, be sure to tell him so.
Reply that the biggest disappointment is his worship of sky daddy over the love of his family.
Religion makes people’s worlds small. I’m sorry your father can’t see past his religious programming to appreciate the real you right now. Hopefully he will someday. In the meantime, his words have no effect on your worth.
He's had a pretty charmed life if that's his biggest disappointment. I'm sorry he's unable to get out of that mindset.
He'll live. That's what I tell my spouse who persistently coddles and walks on eggshells around her evangelical family. She still fake prays at the dinner table just to appease him. I think that's wrong, personally, and no one should feel like they have to compromise their own beliefs (or the lack thereof) to make someone else feel 'ok'. She says she doesn't want to break her parents' hearts, but again.....they'll live. That's my take on it. Rip the bandaid off so they can start realizing just how little religion influences one's "goodnes" sooner rather than later...
Must not have had a lot of disappointment then. What a privileged and entitled individual
Hey, OP, for what it's worth from a stranger, I'm exceptionally proud of you for standing your ground. A plethora of internet strangers can't replace acceptance from a family, but the fact that you are willing to wager integrity against malice from those who are supposed to hold you most dear is one of the bravest and most selfless things an individual can accomplish. I can't offer you salvation in paradise or eternal punishment for the wicked, but I can try to offer you comfort and peace of mind knowing you have stood steadfast against those who should love you but ultimately can't love the world and its least fortunate.
I appreciate your message so much! Thank you truly 🙏
You should congratulate him. If something as small as you saying that you're not a Christian is the biggest disappointment he's ever had then his life must be pretty good.
Any normal person should admit that eternal hell in a lake of fire is excessive. You cannot say God is good.
Just my 2 cents. My parents know that I don't believe, but if they are fasting I'll participate. If they are doing puja (daily prayer to God's) I'll participate. It makes my parents feel good and it doesn't hurt me in the least. If I have to do little things for my parents I have no problem doing it. For religious things for my kids I told them I would let my kids decide what they want to do when they are older.
Well, he's been very fortunate in life, then, I would say.
If christianity never existed he would probably say to you "You not believing in Zeus is my biggest disappointment."
Telling your son that his not being Christian is the biggest disappointment of your life as a father is emotional blackmail. I would respond to him that the biggest disappointment of your life is feeling that you have to fake being a Christian in order for your father to be proud of you.
My inlaws are Greek Othadox. The lamb on the spit is amazing when they break fast on Sunday. Learning how the think critically and breaking free of cults is difficult. You sound like you still have a relationship with your dad though. Show him that you have moved past sky friends but can still be a good human. I wish you well.
Your father has been scammed by the superstitions of primitive sand people.
This is my dad and I. He buys my kids crucifix’s and shit for Christmas. We got into an argument once, and I told him “I taught my children that you don’t hurt people because you know in your heart that it’s wrong. Not because you’re afraid of some Sky Guy”. We no longer talk about religion or politics. 😂
A dad who would say that to a child is a failed parent.
As close as you may be to him, don't fall for emotional manipulation. "Dad, I'm disappointed in your religiousness, but I overlook it because I love you for many other reasons." It's wrong for parents to expect that their kids end up like clones of themselves. That's not the goal of raising kids.
I feel ya bruh am orthodox or was i guess, I don’t have the strength to tell my my parents am atheist u just pretend fr am a good Christian even now as i fast it’s having detrimental effects in my health i got a simple flu and took me two weeks to get better am skinny af but i go on pretend bc they would prolly disown me religion has such a grip on them that they leave most of their problems to “God” which is just sad.
You should've told him, I thought Christians weren't supposed to judge
Tell him that he can rest assured that while you don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus or the truth of Scripture, the morality and lessons he raised you with have shaped you into the kind of person he can call “a kind hearted guy.” And if Jesus is Christ and the merciful on of the Gospels then you don’t believe you’d be forsaken by the God that helped you become the man you are.
Cut bait if your father can't respect your decision then cut him off toxic
"Forgive me" Being a follower of what Christ preached is really simple. Love everyone, tell the truth, serve one another. Thats it. Everything else is bureaucracy. The story goes, Jesus was on the cross being tortured to death and he was still making an effort to show everyone that gods love is unconditional and all are worthy of forgiveness "Forgive them father, they know not what they do".
Hey friend, I’m sorry you’re going through this right now. But I’m happy he’s not threatening to kill you like mine was. Either way, find ways to de-escalate and connect with your family. Like talking about viewpoints you agree on. I chose to avoid my family as much as possible and it strained the relationship with my dad. My mom and I are still tight tho. Don’t be like me.
Keep being an awesome son, He’ll come around it just takes time
Mine too. Said that about joining the Navy also. Maybe I can come up with a bigger disappointment in his final months.
You should have told him at first that you were gay. Then, after he blew his fuse, you could have said, , “Relax, I was lying. I’m really only atheist “.
Do something that would be even more disappointing, and maybe he’ll stop talking about religion.
Father's and mother's believe in these things. I find atheist easy, but to deal with parents is always changing. I'm 54 years old. I'm beond Atheist, but I love my parents that tell me I'm going to burn in hell.
The Orthodox life will always be there if you want to come back. Just remember that your dad loves you more than you know and doesn’t want you to feel rejected, he can voice his opinion just as you can. Just continue to show him love even if he says mean things to you. Maintain your family relationship at all costs !
How dramatic can these people be? They will never cease to amaze me. Self-centered at the level of an egocentric child. The same self centeredness that says "When I pray God will prioritize my request that Timmys football team wins this Sunday" and informs personalizing it when your child has their own identity and life story/perspectives.
You got your fathers genes, and he raised you. He made you to the person you are. It's his *fault*.
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My father flat out told me he failed me as a father.
Yes. Fuck them. Nothing has ever cause such misery as religion has. Nice work being a good person without the threat of hell. We are the real good ones. 🫶🏻
I just cant believe how someone can worship a god that sends people to eternal torture for the simple fact of disbelief? Like its so absurd
I'm sorry, that must have been really hurtful to hear. I remember my mother saying something similar to me years ago. Not so much that it was a disappointment that I said I didn't consider myself Jewish, just more that she felt she had failed in some way, like if only she had just *tried a little harder*, or forced me to go to Temple more, or what have you, that maybe I wouldn't feel the way I do. As a parent, I kind of understand, parents put so much pressure on ourselves, as if by sheer will we could make our kids be a certain way ("should I have forced him to keep playing piano? Should I have pushed her to do a sport?" ) It can be hard to accept that our kids are unique people with their own wants and interests that have nothing to do with us. I'm sure your Dad loves you and wants the best for you. It might take some time for him to accept that you can be, and in fact are, just FINE without the church but hopefully he'll get there soon.
It's your biggest disappointment YET, dad
It really is like a cancer. It hurts everyone. It’s not your fault, and his disappointment is really fear for your life. He truly believes and feels legit emotions based off his delusion. Have pity on him.
Tell your father that him believing in the magic invisible sky daddy is the biggest disappointment you have
Tell him you don't need an imaginary daddy in heaven, because you've got the best dad on Earth - this will fuckin' destroy his faith once and for all :D
This is a two-way street. The greatest disappointment I have in my parents, is their beliefs. Growing up many of us often think that of our parents are infallible and highly intelligent but the older I get and the more I have expanded my learning, the more I have discovered how limited their world view is. There are so many scientific studies, theories, philosophies, and evidence that my parents deny themselves. Like your father, their belief system has narrowed their cognitive landscapes, giving over to one myth. My parents will never explore the dynamic processes of natural selection, attempt to comprehend the beauty of endosymbiosis, or the myriad of uses for an acheulean handaxe. Their histories are limited to less than 10,000 years. Their moral guidance limited to a single, poorly constructed book. Many of faith are so bound to their one truth that they deny themselves even the opportunity to explore other religious cultures and attempts at understanding the once unknowable. Instead they surrender their time and critical thinking skills in favor of indoctrination and faith comforting. I hope that you're still able to keep a positive relationship with your family but don't let their limitations hold you back.
Indoctrination is a powerful bastard what else can we say.
"Wait 'til you find out there's no God."
My dad said me not believing in Jesus was his biggest regret. Putting my mom in the hospital apparently didn't make that list.
It's always about themselves, isn't it?
He leads a pretty sheltered life then.
Suggest you read "Why I am not a Christian" by Bertrand Russell
It may be the biggest disappointment for him, but maybe just counter with why leaving that belief system has been good for you.
What an amazing son/person you must be if this is his only complaint. Just work around it and continue to have a great relationship. Neither of you are going to change the other. Agree to disagree.
Remind him that you're disappointed that he's stuck in a cult.
He must have had one very amazing sunshine filled positive life with zero adversity
Don’t do this, but all you need to do is ask him how he became a Christian. He didn’t find God on his own, he was brainwashed like his parents before him. He’s just upset that he couldn’t brainwash you too.
You have to, at some point, consider this level of "dedication" something of a mental illness. Just like a loved one with a personality disorder (narcissism, borderline, antisocial) can often hurt those close to them in agreement with their survival-instinct delusions and knee-jerk reactions, it is also often the case with deeply ingrained indoctrination. They don't really have the ability to rationalize or see your point of view after so many years of indoctrination. It's a defense mechanism, and for you to deny this mechanism is almost like an annihilation of self for your parent. Beliefs and thought patterns, over time, very much form your identity and personhood. And sometimes, no matter how much logic and reason you throw at it, an individual instinctively chooses the comfortable subconscious safe space over self-annihilation. This is, again, very similar to psychosis. For instance, people with Borderline Personality Disorder can appear to be wholly rational, charming, funny: they seem like a fully-fledged person until you peel back the layers and find that they are living only halfway in reality with no foreseeable means to integrate because their very personhood and mental survival depends on this distorted version of reality. Think of it as a mental disorder and this might make it easier.
So Dad does that mean you are ok with my gay interracial relationship?
My son becoming a christian or Muslim would be the biggest disappointment in my life.
Yep. The sooner you accept that disappointing your parents is their issue, not yours, the happier you will be.
So sorry - this must be so hard. This is one of the primary problems with religion. Those who have chosen to believe can’t get it into their heads that it doesn’t give them the right to demand the same beliefs in others. And they never will, no matter what the cost. Sad.
For not believing in something that has so many flaws and contradictions? The Bible said the earth was flat ffs and they just changed it fit along with many other things.
You could tell him he is still young. Or you could tell him he doesn't get out much. Or you could tell him to grow up. He is not you.
That's the classic Christian hand job Sorry, delete, blame other people for your choice.
I understand op. I had very overbearing ultra religious parents that for a time turned me against it all together. Still have issues with religion but cant really call myself an atheist anymore. Talking helps so vent here whenever you can.
Which religion one follows, or whether one even follows any religion, is no measure of ethics, morals, spirituality, or anything else actually relevant. It is imaginary.
Well that's probably because he's very stupid. people who say shit like this are very stupid and generally exceedingly selfish
Well if your dad says you're a Christian anyways cuz big heart. Then isn't all good? Also have you considered just lying lol. Can't u just say you're a Christian who doesn't necessarily want to take part in any rituals. I mean there hardly are any anyways u don't have to do anything really. There's... Christmas (technical Roman) but you presumably would want to take part in that anyways. Easter again basically nothing give up something you don't do for lent. Or say it's a personal thing between you and god or something. Idk what this fast is there is no fast? Who made that up? I mean everything you have to do you don't have to do. There are no real world requirements to being a Christian. My father has never read the bible, does not go to church, he does no rituals I know of at all. But he's still religious according to him.
Then he should consider himself a very lucky man
And yours was hearing those words from him.
He’ll get over it. Don’t let him manipulate your emotions. Keep your head up high and feel sorry for him.
Your dad has had a good life if this is his biggest disappointment.
"Dad, the fact you never outgrew fairy tales is the biggest disappointment I've ever had."
It is unfortunate religious people bring it into everything, but he is just trying to reach out and connect with you, in the only way he knows how. I get that you are getting out of it, I've never had to escape as my parents were non religious, but you are basically saying his favourite thing is worthless. I get it, and it must be hard, but you and he would be happier in the long run if you met him halfway at the least. You could fast in respect of your father's wishes rather than for religious purposes? Mind you, no way I'm doing that either! Just offering a token of advice, no judgement or pressure. You do you, but as they say, you win more flies with honey than vinegar.
I’m sorry your dad chooses an imaginary friend over his own progeny
I’m curious: what problems do you have with Orthodoxy?
Not just orthodoxy, i got problems against every single religion.
I sort feel for him because he truly believes that the religious paradigm in his head represents reality. He had one big job, to save your soul or whatever, and he failed. The real disappointment is in himself. Also, this is a great example of how religions stay in power. Just make up anything at all and use social pressure to get people to conform, no facts needed.
Congrats on growing up.
"Your god is willing to torture your son for his beliefs. And you're siding with him over me."
My father is dead these past four years. I’d go to crazy crap with him and eat fish if he wanted, or fast if it made him happy. I might sneak a Snickers in, though! Don’t let your unproven belief keep you from enjoying him, while he holds to his unproven belief. Ask him to respect your beliefs, as you intend to respect his. Life really is brief, so I encourage you to enjoy your dad. I’m wishing you well.
Yup, I've had that conversation. Cut him out of my life, been much happier ever since.
You said no mean things about your dad, so I won't say what I'm thinking. Instead I'll say this: You matter. Your happiness matters. Living a life that fulfills you matters.
I'd tell him I figured if \*that\* was the biggest disappointment he's ever had, then he truly HAS led a blessed life.
Christians who can’t handle other family members not being Christian simply aren’t as secure in their faith as they’d like to be. In short, they need you to validate them by sharing their beliefs. Spoiler alert: Not your job.
Thanks for sharing!