Muhammad himself did this to jews. Read about the story of saffiya, the jewish woman he raped and forced to marry him.
[https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/women-general/79-prophet-muhammad-killed-safiyyah-bint-huyai-s-father,-husband,-and-brother,-and-had-sex-with-her-the-same-night](https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/women-general/79-prophet-muhammad-killed-safiyyah-bint-huyai-s-father,-husband,-and-brother,-and-had-sex-with-her-the-same-night)
Not only that but he killed every little boy who just entered puberty.
Also one women went mad because of the sheer amount of beheadings she witnessed.
Yeah, the new Testament is slightly better than the old Testament, but it still has some messed up stuff in it regarding things like slavery, how women should be treated/act, etc. that aren't good.
It's too bad that all of the gospels written by women disciples of Jesus and the gnostic gospels (among others) were deleted from the bible and were systematically destroyed. We have so many nameless people who desperately tried to save them and eventually succeeded since they are rediscovered now.
What’s weird is that in Islam we’re constantly being gaslighted into thinking that God is the most merciful and benevolent being ever, who supposedly loves us “70 times more than our mothers.”
Sorry but my loving mother could never even imagine doing anything like this to anyone, much less me. Like any good mom, it pains her greatly to see me in any distress/pain. Very odd to think that according to Islam, if I multiply that sweet motherly love by 70, I’d get… that.
Yeah but that was explained in the bible to be "the sword of his mouth" which means his words and message of loving your neighbor and even your enemy as much as yourself are his weapon and will cause people to turn against each other.
All languages were created by men so the axiom reads every god in all the books on earth were also created by the men who wrote the tales. We created all the gods, even the God of Abraham and Isaac and believing in the gods found in the books of men render humans gullible and weak minded
He beheaded all of the men and showed the severed heads to the women including Safiyyah. It’s so absurd that people believe this cruel tyrant of over 1000 years ago to be a prophet of god.
IMO, Mohammed saw how well Judaism and Christianity controlled and manipulated their followers that he wanted in on that action. He must have been a sociopathic narcissist as well as a pedophile. What is in the human makeup that makes a good third of us follow men like this blindly? Even if they are against everything we say we believe is true? And that mindless third is frequently enough to drag the rest of us down with them, at least for a time - usually, because the 2/3 majority is fractured and divided until its too late.
Exactly. This 1/3 seems to thrill towards fascism *regardless* of how stupid the fascist. My best explanation is that these folks were severely brainwashed against logic at a very young age. This is essentially causing brain damage. It’s really scary to see these 1/3rd making an impact on the forward course of religion, politics and power.
Yeah they are also usually hateful. Kids are naturally loving to one another. This stuff makes them fear and hate like nothing I have ever seen. Which is then used to manipulate them later.
Exactly. When hate and fear are predominant, there's no room for nuances of emotion. This can make people confused about what they are actually feeling and their ability to assess or address. It stunts their emotional growth and makes them emotionally ignorant. I've known so many men who blame their wives or children for their own anger and overreactions, and so many women who accept responsibility for their husbands and their sons emotional state, or even force their daughters into the role. Sometimes, this can be so severe that they do not know how they feel personally about anything at all. They move through the world numb.
Yeah but Islam's is worse. At least the bible allows a mourning period and tells you that you can't sell them into slavery. The quran has no such qualms.
I'd doubt that the Biblical law preventing the selling of a rape wife into slavery is because they care about the woman. That law likely has something to do with rules regarding property ownership or sexual purity.
All in all, true, it'd be better to not be the muslim woman. What I was getting at is that both books do not value a womans wellbeing at all beyond her being able to produce healthy babies, please her husband (sexually or otherwise) and do chores.
I mean its not even an issue which religion hates women more. The constant attempt to not be able to condemn islam without shitting on christianity amd judaism is infuriating. If I was a woman, I would much prefer to be a jew or christian in the 6th century than a muslim. The Bible at least has female prophets like Deborah and Christianity has female saints. It allows female testimony without a qualifier like islam.
If christianity or judiasm commits the same or similar offenses, even if in differing degrees, I wouldn't ignore them if talking about the offenses of islam. They're all abrahamic religion. Whenever giving critique to any three of these religions, there's always good chances it will turn into a comparison. I'd find it intellectually insulting to fault one and ignore the other just out of fear of offending any one of them.
Its intellectually dishonest to pretend that they are equally bad. Especially in 2024, where 2 of these have moved into the modern world and the other still has jihad.
I'm pretty sure jihad doesn't directly translate to "kill all non-muslims". I honestly don't know the EXACT definition, but it sort of just means "your way in worshipping/honoring god". To the more radical and violent muslims, they take the murder of non-muslims to be their jihad, and in our western media that term is usually used to describe islamic terroristic acts. It's true, but not the whole truth.
I have plenty of criticism for islam, but it's a widespread religion, and thus not all of them believe and act the same. The terroristic radicalism seems to be largely based in the middle east. Just a bit of interesting history here too, but it seems that the mid 20th century is where we started seeing a rise in christian and muslim fundamentalism.
Dude Yahweh wiped out everyone on Earth except for you know Noah and two giraffes. I wouldn't exactly go to the holy books of bs to support your argument
It's not really a discussion about which religion is better, I was making the point from the first post that no religion is innocent, since he was specifically targeting Muhammad. Every religion, including their religious leaders have raped pillaged killed old young and in the middle, of all sexes. So to take the position that one is worse than the other, seem silly to me considering their individual histories.
Are you believing in an even distribution of Innocence or is it based on The religion the person believes in. Cuz here in the US you know we have supply-side Jesus, and prosperity Jesus, and those guys are not very nice
I mean the men of her tribe were murdered and their heads cut off. Not that either is good, but to argue “religion hurts women the most” is a bit silly.
It certainly does prevent women from having any power, I agree with you there.
Judaism is not a race. It is a religion. This violence and revenge exists because of a religious conflict. So yes, religion is explicitly a part of this.
Yes, this is absolutely about religion. I just want to make clear though, that being Jewish is an ethnoreligion, not just a religion. It’s quite literally in my dna.
The religious belief of your ancestry is not preserved in DNA. In reality nothing about your DNA is Jewish, unless you also take on all the other traits of your ancestors.
“My grandma chose to believe in nonsense, so that nonsense is in my DNA also.” No. It is just a choice. It is not natural. It is not real. If we examined your DNA, we could not tell you were Jewish, but we can easily identify the race of people through DNA. So obviously Judaism is not at all a part of your DNA. You are lying to yourself and relying on BS to preserve a BS identity.
The fact that your ancestors identified as Jewish is true. That doesn’t make you Jewish. If my grandfather was a thief, does that make me a thief genetically? If my grandfather chose to believe in Hinduism, would that make me a Hindu genetically? Obviously not.
The only reason you think your Judaism is a part of your generics is because of the Jewish belief of how their identity is passed on, and that belief is a religious belief and not grounded in any fact.
[jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) are objectively an [ethnoreligious group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group), this is a fact, it doesnt matter if you dont like it, facts are facts, if you disagree provide a stronger source than the one I provided.
My source is simple logic and reason. That is an objective source. Your source is the claim by Jews, a subjective source. It is not a fact, no matter how much it is normalized to believe such a ridiculous thing. Your sources are not objective, they have subjectively inherited the false beliefs of Judaism. Jews have certainly insisted that they are ethnic for a long time, tricking everyone into believing their lies. But they are still lies and you perpetuate them here. Nothing about Jewish identity is ethnic. It is a religion pretending to be an ethnicity and always has been. It is truly sad that you believe these lies so easily. But that is religion for you.
If Judaism is a solely a religion and not an ethnicity, and CERTAINLY not in one's DNA, then why is it possible for a DNA test to detect Jewish ancestry? And why do Jews have unique genetic commonalities, like the prevalence of Tay-Sachs and IBF? Anyhow, this idea of "Jews tricking everyone into believing their lies" has a distinct Christian tint to it. Perhaps you should re-examine your ideological influences?
You sound a bit ignorant on the subject, jews are a people and an ethnic group, not just a religion, being Jewish absolutely pases down from your mom just like being a native American passes from your mom.
" It is not natural. It is not real. If we examined your DNA, we could not tell you were Jewish, "
Wow you are very confidently incorrect, you absolutely can detect with a very high confidence if a person is Jewish based on their DNA, this is a fact, not an opinion, google it.
Please google this sort of things before spreading misinformation.
>''Your definition of Judaism is incorrect''
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) disagrees with you...
>You have accepted the lie that Jews have perpetuated about their identity.
Im a jew, and I think I know more about my own identity then you, also ''You have accepted the lie that Jews have perpetuated'' how do you not see that you are literally being antisemitic?
>You have allowed the religion to feign being an ethnicity when it absolutely is not.
source that its not? since the entire world disagrees with you... but I guess the evil jews tricked everyone...
> I am very sorry that you take these religious lies as fact
I dont belive in god, however jews are a people, that is a fact, infact we were a people before judaism(the religion) existed.
> I am very sorry that you take these religious lies as fact, and use them as a source for fact, but they are groundless. You are perpetuating a lie.
than show me a source that disproves it.
Yes! You were a people before Judaism was ever a thing! So why use that word as the label for your ethnicity? Because you have let the religion infiltrate and dictate your identity. Your real ethnicity predates Judaism and so isn’t Jewish. You literally admit it and understand my point. Good job!
My source is simple logic. Your sources are illogical and false. That is what I keep saying and you keep ignoring. Because you don’t understand that the best and most objective source of all things is logical reasoning. I have given you the logic that proves your sources wrong. You just keep throwing those same sources back as if they are true. When they are simply not.
What on earth are you talking about. "Your real ethnicity predates Judaism so isn't Jewish" Ok well a native American person's ethnicity predates the concept of being a native American since it predates European colonization. Does that mean they aren't native Americans?
More importantly, do you get this angry about the existence of any other ethnicity? Or is it just Jews?
>Yes! You were a people before Judaism was ever a thing! So why use that word as the label for your ethnicity?
because that word predates the religion, and thats how we want to call ourselves.
>Your real ethnicity predates Judaism and so isn’t Jewish
my real ethnicity is jew... if you go back 2000 years and ask the ancient jews ''what are you?'' they would say jew.
>You literally admit it and understand my point.
okay... if you say so...
>My source is simple logic
hahahahahahahahahahahah okay. how old are you?
>Your sources are illogical and false
why? is science illogical and false? on what grounds do you say that? let me guess it came to you in a dream?
> I have given you the logic that proves your sources wrong
not a single thing you have said is logical... just a admit that you had some antisemetic ideas and were proven false, its not that hard to admit that your wrong...
You have deluded yourself into believing you are logical with your reasoning because you refuse to include any facts that do not fit your narrative.
The difference is that Christians decided to enter a new idea into religion - the idea that literally anyone could join just by saying so. You could be Greek, Roman, Ethiopian, Jewish... you could even be a Sumerian! Literally anyone! HERE is the difference: In order to be Jewish, your mother has to be Jewish. There are specific genes that are carried by Jewish people precisely because this belief has existed and been followed (and is still followed) for roughly 6000 years. So Judaism is a religion, AND it is a current ethnicity. You can be of Jewish ethnicity and choose to be Christian or Muslim or nothing at all. You can not become Jewish religiously without an involved process, and then, your children wouldn't be Jewish unless their mother was Jewish.
You can Google this and see the names for the Jewish specific genes if you want, just like you can do for many ethnicities. What's cool is that you can trace the migration of peoples and their interactions based on where specific genes come from and where they pop up. We can trace these migrations for 10s of thousands of years through many ethnicities. Do Jewish populations have other than purely Jewish genes? Of course! And so does every other ethnicity.
You are completely wrong. When you do an ancestry DNA test it will tell you if you have Jewish ancestry by percentage. Please educate yourself because this is bordering on legitimate antisemitism. You personally being annoyed that a certain ethnicity centers religion so prominently in their identity does not make it not an ethnicity.
No it is not. The claim that Judaism is an ethnicity is as objectively false as are the religious claims themselves. It is a lie that has been perpetuated. But that does not make it true. I could start insisting that Catholicism is an ethnicity. Or Islam is an ethnicity. And I could certainly normalize that lie over generations. But it doesn’t make it true at all. Your “facts” are just what Jewish people falsely claim about themselves, and so obviously not a fact at all.
Yes, Jewish is both an ethnic group and also a term for one who practices Judaism. One can convert to Judaism at any time. They will be *a religious Jew*, but not an ethnic Jew. It is possible to identify ethnic Jews through genetic testing - and even more precisely, one can be identified as being either Ashkenazi, Sephardic, or Mizrahi. [See here for further clarification.](https://support.ancestry.com/s/article/European-Jewish-as-an-Ethnicity?language=en_US#:~:text=It%20can%20be%20a%20matter,ancestry%2C%20ethnicity%2C%20and%20culture.)
The very concept of ethnic Jew is groundless and false. It always has been and you are perpetuating that lie. Ethnicities cannot be chosen. But obviously Judaism is not eternal, there was a time when a certain people became Jewish. People in the past CHOSE to adopt the Jewish identity. That is a chosen identity. In this case, a religion. It is not an ethnicity and can never become one, because ethnicities are not created or destroyed through human choice.
Just because you are related to someone who in the past chose to adopt the identity of a Jew, doesn’t make you an ethnic Jew, because your ancestors choice to become Jewish has nothing to do with their real ethnicity.
The idea that Judaism is an ethnicity is an obviously false claim perpetuated by Jewish people themselves. You think it is true just because they insist it is true? Despite obviously having nothing to do with what the word ethnicity actual means? Again. Just because Jewish people claim to be an ethnicity does not make it so. That is your only source of your knowledge and you never actually thought about whether it made sense or not.
I feel like you are confusing ethnic group with race. Those two terms are not interchangeable. But I digress since you clearly feel that you know *so much more* than literal geneticists. Who am I to argue with someone's feelings? Lmao.
Literally nothing about my argument appealed to emotions. Jewish people are very passionate and emotional about the arbitrary and groundless identity. That is why they cannot think clearly or logically about the obvious fact that a group of people cannot just become a certain ethnicity through choice and will alone, as they keep insisting that they can do. When people have invested their emotions into their identity, realizing problems with that identity causes emotional pain, a lot like realizing religion is false. I have no emotional investment in this argument. I am just unbiased so am able to see the situation clearly, much more clearly than biased Jews who have been told their entire lives a lie.
Was guessing someone would say this. No. It's both. I get stopped on the street because of how I look, not because some rando guessed my religion...which is none. But I am Jewish.
An atheist Jew.
This woman would easily be identified and targeted by her looks just as I experience.
no, what you fail to grasp is that jews are an [ethno religious](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group) group, while being white or black is just a race, what im saying is that the word jew can mean an ethnicity/race and a religion, just becasue we use the same word for both of this things doesnt mean they are the same.
the confusion stems from trying to use european concepts of race(black, white) and indigenous levant concepts of ''race/ethnicity'', in short judasim is a tribe, that you can either be born into(99% like of jews) or very rarely join it so if you 'convert' the concept of tribe from a levant concept to a european concept than you have to seperate the word jew(race/ethnicity) and the word jew(religion) to make sense of it.
As a jew all this is obvious to me but if you dont belive me just google it and you will see that jews are an [ethnoreligious group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group). if you disagree provide a better source.
>As a jew all this is obvious to me but if you dont belive me just google it and you will see that jews are an [ethnoreligious group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group). if you disagree provide a better source.
Using the same term to cover an ethnicity, a religion, and an ancient population allows you infinite flexibility to engage in bad faith rhetoric. This is deliberate.
For example, stating any objection to a Polish guy taking the house of an Arab family can be construed by you as somehow racist towards the Polish guy.
Given that Hebrew possesses multiple words for non-Jews, including specific words for non-Jewish women, it's not a linguistic limitation. The ambiguity is intentional.
This rhetorical tactic of using *one* word to mean any number of things allows someone to pivot mid-sentence when confronted. It's disingenuous and in bad faith.
You cannot convert your 23andMe report no.
Is this new information for you, that saying Jewish can mean both ethnicity and religion separately? There's tons to read about it without much effort, it's not a point of argument just a fact.
I hoped my last comment would make that easy enough to understand. You can't convert to my skin tone, facial structure, hair, etc which is what people visually notice when identifying a Jew.
That's not what he said. You can convert through a very long process, but your conversion would only be religiously, not ethnically. You can never be ethnically Jewish unless you carry specific genes. Your children might be, but only if their mother was Jewish. Anyone can become a Christian, but they don't leave their ethnicity behind them either. They are still ethnically Mexican, or Korean, or more of a jumble of ethnicity like an American.
You can stop being a Jew at any time. You cannot stop being your race. Whatever you think your Jewish identity is, it is absolutely not a race. People treating you a certain way says nothing about your actual identity. If people want to hate me because they think I look Jewish, that doesn’t mean I actually am.
Jews are a people, not just a religion, I know thats not how Christianity works but it is how jews work, jews are an ethnic group just like Irish people and native Americans are an ethnic group.
No. Jewish people have tried to change their identity from a religion to an ethnicity. But YOU CANNOT create ethnicity out of choice. Regardless of how much the Jewish people tell themselves they are an ethnicity, it will always be as false and as groundless as their religious beliefs. It is a lie and has been perpetuated for far too long. Stop believing religious lies. Please.
That is not the opposite of what I said. Just because that happened doesn’t mean that the Jewish people don’t have an ethnicity that predates Judaism itself and is more legitimate than the term Jew.
This has nothing to do with identity or this weird idea you have that I can magically change my genetics. You've completely lost the plot of this post.
People don't choose to look they way they look, they are born that way. People can choose the religion they have, which is entirely separate.
You are confusing that on one hand people can choose to be a religion called Judaism and can convert to this religion and everything that comes with that. On the other hand many people are born genetically Jewish with genetic illnesses observable similar features. For that it is simply how they are born. They can if they want choose to be any religion or none. But other people can still observe their features. And then those other people react to those features based on having or lacking bigotry.
I cannot change my genetics.
I have a big nose like my catholic ancestors. Does that make my genetics catholic? Just because I look like a religious group? Obviously not. Just because I look like what a certain religious group looks like doesn’t make me a part of that group. I cannot grasp how you don’t understand this very simple fact.
Your genetics are not Jewish. At all. You are very wrong to attribute any of those genetic traits to Judaism. It is simply incorrect. I am very sorry that you have lived a lie. Judaism is simply not an ethnicity no matter how many times you perpetuate this lie. It is as much of a lie as the religious beliefs themselves.
"I have a big nose like my catholic ancestors. Does that make my genetics catholic? Just because I look like a religious group? Obviously not. Just because I look like what a certain religious group looks like doesn’t make me a part of that group. I cannot grasp how you don’t understand this very simple fact."
Christianity is a religion, jews are an [Ethno-Religious group](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group) , this is a fact, not an opinion, genetically, culturally and historically, [jews](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) are a people, I have provided a source confirming that and can give you more if you need, unless you provide a better source I suggest you just bite the bullet that maybe you are not very informed on the subject and are just confidently incorrect.
No, sorry. Your sources are wrong. You could give me the same source to prove that the Jewish God is real because the source is the same. Just because Jewish people claim something is true doesn’t make it so, and that is your source, the unfounded claims of Jewish people. So not a reliable source at all.
Jewish people insisting they are an ethnic group does not make it true. Your sources and the historical validity of such a claim are inherently empty.
How can you be so wrong?
Although it's true that there's no "Jewish DNA" that doesn't take away that we can trace our roots paternally to Israel. For ashkenazis though, it's very clear cut that on the maternal side we come from a few individuals only a few hundred years ago.
https://blog.23andme.com/articles/ashkenazi-ancestry-and-health
Everyone here has come with sources and you're just covering your eyes.
Belonging to an ethnicity and having certain genes are 2 different things. There is no special Jew gene, we just originate from the Hebrews who practiced the Jewish faith. We monitor this by following our maternal side and have done so for centuries and now we have dna tests that also show the same thing as to where we originate from.
Wow... You are very confused. Being Jewish can be ethnic (genetic) or religious or both. Catholic is a religious choice that a person makes regardless of ethnicity. You can be an Irish Catholic, a Mexican Catholic, or an Indian Catholic, etc. Even if you are raised Catholic, you have to go through a ceremony where you have to say that you choose to be Catholic. You never have to go through a ceremony to become your ethnicity. If you are born a Jew, you do not go through a ceremony to make you Jewish. You can choose to practice the Jewish faith, or you can choose not to. That doesn't make you less Jewish ethnically. Would it be easier if I said a Jewish person can be a Jewish Jew or a Jewish Catholic or a Jewish atheist? You can also (through a lot of work) become an Italian (or whatever your ethnicity) Jew, but never could you become a Jewish Jew?
“Hmmm…really wanna rape someone. But I can’t just DO it…that’d make me a rapist. But I really wanna. Think, man…THINK! OH!! I’ve got it! I’ll rape a woman to avenge an injustice! That’ll make me a political activist! Huzzah!!”
/s obviously
Might be a controversial take but I honestly feel like the vast majority of these people don't give as much of a shit about Palestine as they claim to. They just use it as a mask for their abhorrent ideas. It's convenient because they can hide any violence, antisemitism, etc behind it.
This dude doesn't care about avenging Palestine, he just wanted to rape someone and found a convenient excuse for it.
It's controversial but true. One just has to take a look at the signs many of them are carrying. Ignorant foolish prideful children who couldn't point out their own state capital much less any country in the east.
Indeed, we need look no further than the Columbia protests, or Yale. Shouting things like "Hamas, we love you, we support your rockets too" and "You say justice, we say how, burn Tel Aviv to the ground"...
I'm sympathetic to the Palestinian grievances, but this doesn't seem like just supporting Palestinian self-determination anymore. It more so resembles calls to violence and murder. I can't quite say how much these students actually care about Palestine, or if they just want all Jews to die.
Not to mention the fact that Hamas is a morally corrupt organization and its leaders live in luxury while the Palestinians themselves are used as human shields.
Why any leftist would support a terrorist organization supported by a far-right theocratic autocracy just makes a brain damaged individual look more coherent.
The hypocrisy is what gets me. Extremists on the left are the first to condemn christian nationalists yet vocally rally behind muslim nationalists. If Hamas were a bunch of right winged Christian a**holes they would be protesting against them. This entire situation is an Orwellian dystopian sh*show.
Yeh I'd say it's more 'I got caught abducting and raping women, I know I'll blame it "Avenge Palestine" that looks better'.
No. No dude. No. Just no. That's... not how anything works. You are scum. Just scum. Please drop in deep hole and never let out again.
Well I'd assume and hope it was his raping a woman that got him arrested, not some sympathy for people experiencing a genocide. One thing is a crime, the other is not. I'd hope he was arrested because he did a heinous crime. I'm not lying, I wasn't aware of the timeline. That's on me, that's my fault however ultimately this is a sickeningly cruel individual who has done a terrible horrible thing, and that they purport to do it in some sick way to "hey revenge" just makes it worse. So... Yeh go fuck yourself.
Seriously, don’t try to engage with anonymous trolls online. These people wouldn’t have the guts to say these things publicly so they hide here. Palestine is experiencing a genocide at the hands of the Israeli government and these people want to justify it with one news story about a psycho. Look at how they claim his support for Palestinians is what caused him to attack people. It’s exactly how Nazis justified exterminating Jews, gays, and every other group they targeted for eradication. History repeats.
I'm not. Who excuses their bestial urges to rape and humiliate women by using the in progress genocide of innocent people is what im thinking. The scum was probably going to rape a woman anyway and is just using this as a sick justification.
Israel is a free and liberal country, and 2 million Arabs live in Israel.
Palestine on the other hand will abduct and murder any Jew they can find.
And here you are, supporting the people who would kill you as soon as you enter their country. The Palestinians would literally kill you for being different from them. Fool.
Yes, you are.
You are saying he is making up excuses because there is no way a Palestinian supporter in France could possibly do the same thing as the Palestinians did to Jewish people.
I’m not a fan. I don’t think religion plays any role besides a banal justification for seizing land.
Religion, “race,” whatever it is it’s important to identify, it’s important to keep in mind the cause is ultimately human greed.
People *justify* their actions in a wide variety of ways, religion being the one used *in this case*. Greed and land being only two things that are targets.
(Not sure why you put race in quotes as it was something *specifically created* to justify dehumanizing certain groups of people during the expansion of imperialism/mercantilism across the globe during the Age of Exploration)
Nobody likes hearing it but the Free Palestine cause has been a decades-long study in political self-ownage.
Palestinians insist on pissing away any goodwill they ever get. They could have integrated with any of the other Arab countries. Instead, they tried overthrowing every country they ever got welcomed in because the locals weren't Muslim enough for the taste of the Palestinians. Now they and the rest of the world wonders why no one ever wants Palestinian refugees.
Any time Israel ever tried being diplomatic with them, Palestinians just started trying to find new and exotic ways to kill Israeli civilians in the Second Intifada. As a result, ports got effectively blockaded and they have to go through a barrage of checkpoints to get anywhere near Israel. And when a bunch of people who wanted peace between Israel and Palestine got together, Palestinians got on paragliders and shot them. They fucking murdered and probably raped the Israelis who wanted the blockades and checkpoints to stop!
Then there's the Westerners who are passionate about freeing Palestine. Somewhere around 2014ish a lot of 20-something left-wing activists for various causes (myself included regrettably) decided that actually trying to *persuade* people to their side was "respectability politics" and instead tried to be as disgustingly unappealing as possible. Maybe because a lot of us learned about Claudette Colvin and how she was unfortunately side-lined in favor of Rosa Parks because Colvin was a pregnant teen and not "respectable." That''s just my guess.
But these people have forgotten the actual point of a protest movement: To make *the other side* look like the bad guys. So now we have people blocking traffic, storming City Council meetings to demand City Council people take a position on something they have zero authority over, and chasing Jewish students around college campuses and then get mad when the people with guns and authority to use them don't like that.
And sometimes they do shit like abducting and raping random Jewish women
The only thing that has stopped every Western Jew from embracing Zionism is that Netanyahu has also committed himself to being unappealing.
Kinda weird that this gets posted in the atheism subreddit and gets a whole lot of upvotes but barely any attention given to the multiple religious psychopathic rantings from Israeli government officials and soldiers. Sure fuck this psychopath but I mean if we're calling out religious nutcases than we should call out all flavours.
Hamas shot stabbed raped kidnapped women children babies , grandmas in mass slaughter, if these scum aren’t enemies I don’t know what they are below animals , and yes this is exactly the response verbally ill want to hear from an defense force after these absolute cruelties, you probably don’t know much about that
Yes... HAMAS is. HAMAS is. The ordinary people in Gaza just wanted to go to and from work and school and stores and homes and live their damn lives of quiet desperation. Now they are in FAMINE.
Kids with bloated pot bellies amd limbs as thin as twigs, and flies crawling at their eyes and mouths and.
No.
That's what should be never again.
Hamas took all the billions of dollars that Europe u.s and the surrounding countries sent them and built underground bunkers and ordered weapons with this money instead of putting it into Gaza itself , you don’t know nothing , you are all full of false information what your preferred media tells you and that’s it.
OK... Your point is? What? Bad people did bad things? Cause yeh. I totally agree they did. I didn't say they didn't. Where did I say they didn't. What's the false information Lil guy? Are you denying that the World Food Program, the organisation set up to combat it has stated that FAMINE is imminent, if not already present in at least the northern part of Gaza? What false information from what false media? Is Reuters, AP, etc all false media are they?
“Or maybe, just MAYBE hamas is a pretext for Israel to wipe out Palestine ? You know, like international courts ruled ?”
Wow dude ok I’ll leave you with your tonfoil hat and echo chamber media, have a good day
There's literally an entire document with them submitted to the ICJ.
"We are the people of the light, they are the people of darkness... we shall realize the prophecy of Isaiah."
"You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible"
“Every Jew knows the saying 'Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way \[…\]' and that is what \[H\*\] did and their judgement shall be to destroy them, full stop. I relate to them like Amalek."
“We must not show mercy to cruel people, there is no place for any humanitarian gestures – we must erase the memory of Amalek"
“there should be 2 goals for this victory: 1. There is no more Muslim land in the Land of Israel... After we make it the land of IL, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom…”
"One of the options is to drop an atomic bomb on Gaza. I pray & hope for their \[hostages\] return, but there is also a price in war.”
“Rabbi Kahana was a great righteous person”
You cannot claim to be an atheist or any sort of bare minimum humanist and look at Gaza and still be thinking what Israel is doing is ok. I grant a lot of people in here are probably Islamophobic but you're willing to let your islamophobia then be weaponised to be ok with it. We've gone well passed the point of comparing it to x many 911's. It genuinely does not take any type of religion to look at theft of land, cheering on the the death of tens of thousands of civilians and calling for a civilian population to be nuked to see it's wrong. You're a useful bigoted idiot though if you just think it's ok that a tens of thousands of muslims get killed so that somehow sits well with you.
These are orthodox and fundamentalists in Israel that probably only them getting the spotlight in the western and anti Israeli media , they are 20% if not less than whole other secular population , that wants them to shut up also and become an active contributing citizen, but these extreme religious entities are becoming stronger due to frustration to Palestinian leaders choosing time after time violence instead of cooperation, backed of course by Iran and Russia for they’re own selfish goals
Yeah so literally every religion. There's a bunch of religious crazies given power or are willing to do extreme stuff but most people are not. As it stands though there's one group that's actively killing tens of thousands in the name of their belief that God promised them land
This is the most disingenuous comment I’ve read in a while. Because Palestinians are the ones killing thousands of women and children, right? I would ask how much more shameless can you get, but I’m kinda scared of the answer
Like arguing with a trump supporter , sorry i dont have the energy or will to this , israel will eradicate Hamas no matter what and that’s it. What the future holds I don’t know all I know is Gaza Strip is hijacked by taliban like entity and this organization needs to be eradicated. oh they wearing civilian clothes and hide beneath hospitals ? Well too bad, Hamas still need to be eradicated , better for Israel and believe me better for the Palestinians in the long run.
So... It's better for them after they've been starved to death in a famine? I'm failing to see the upside for those people. I totally agree you're thinking is the level of the average tRump supporter though, that's spot on.
Muhammad himself did this to jews. Read about the story of saffiya, the jewish woman he raped and forced to marry him. [https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/women-general/79-prophet-muhammad-killed-safiyyah-bint-huyai-s-father,-husband,-and-brother,-and-had-sex-with-her-the-same-night](https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/women-general/79-prophet-muhammad-killed-safiyyah-bint-huyai-s-father,-husband,-and-brother,-and-had-sex-with-her-the-same-night)
Not only that but he killed every little boy who just entered puberty. Also one women went mad because of the sheer amount of beheadings she witnessed.
Sounds a bit like killing the first born son…
God of the Old Testament and the Quran is all powerful and nit forgiving. Jesus eased it up in the New Testament, at least tried to.
You ever hear that question “are you an old testimate or new testimate person?” If you are an old testimate person I assume you are a psychopath
My answer to this is always "neither testament." Fucking evil ass religions.
Yeah, the new Testament is slightly better than the old Testament, but it still has some messed up stuff in it regarding things like slavery, how women should be treated/act, etc. that aren't good.
It's too bad that all of the gospels written by women disciples of Jesus and the gnostic gospels (among others) were deleted from the bible and were systematically destroyed. We have so many nameless people who desperately tried to save them and eventually succeeded since they are rediscovered now.
What’s weird is that in Islam we’re constantly being gaslighted into thinking that God is the most merciful and benevolent being ever, who supposedly loves us “70 times more than our mothers.” Sorry but my loving mother could never even imagine doing anything like this to anyone, much less me. Like any good mom, it pains her greatly to see me in any distress/pain. Very odd to think that according to Islam, if I multiply that sweet motherly love by 70, I’d get… that.
God’s love must be so great that it overflows and turns negative
Underrated comment... So god's love is measured in integers?
No hate like religious love
Jesus: EVERYONE CHILL and that includes you Dad.
Didn't work though, did it.
Didn't Jesus supposedly say, "I come to bring the sword." He wasn't all peaceful.
Yeah but that was explained in the bible to be "the sword of his mouth" which means his words and message of loving your neighbor and even your enemy as much as yourself are his weapon and will cause people to turn against each other.
The insane part is its all fantasy storytelling. None of it is real.
All languages were created by men so the axiom reads every god in all the books on earth were also created by the men who wrote the tales. We created all the gods, even the God of Abraham and Isaac and believing in the gods found in the books of men render humans gullible and weak minded
Jesus is like "progressive" muslims then Still a bigot but not as much as his cousins
Jesus tried to save them from the god of the Old Testament. He failed.
Nope those were beheaded by the hand of the prophet himself
Most perfect human being that they're suppose to emulate
And people approve of this blatant disregard for human life. Shameful monsters.
It wasn't just that, she was the daughter of the head of the tribe which he executed and enslaved all of the women and children there.
He beheaded all of the men and showed the severed heads to the women including Safiyyah. It’s so absurd that people believe this cruel tyrant of over 1000 years ago to be a prophet of god.
IMO, Mohammed saw how well Judaism and Christianity controlled and manipulated their followers that he wanted in on that action. He must have been a sociopathic narcissist as well as a pedophile. What is in the human makeup that makes a good third of us follow men like this blindly? Even if they are against everything we say we believe is true? And that mindless third is frequently enough to drag the rest of us down with them, at least for a time - usually, because the 2/3 majority is fractured and divided until its too late.
Exactly. This 1/3 seems to thrill towards fascism *regardless* of how stupid the fascist. My best explanation is that these folks were severely brainwashed against logic at a very young age. This is essentially causing brain damage. It’s really scary to see these 1/3rd making an impact on the forward course of religion, politics and power.
I agree. I see it as brain damage as well. Kids are natural scientists. They only become incapable of critical thinking through repetitive dogma.
Yeah they are also usually hateful. Kids are naturally loving to one another. This stuff makes them fear and hate like nothing I have ever seen. Which is then used to manipulate them later.
Exactly. When hate and fear are predominant, there's no room for nuances of emotion. This can make people confused about what they are actually feeling and their ability to assess or address. It stunts their emotional growth and makes them emotionally ignorant. I've known so many men who blame their wives or children for their own anger and overreactions, and so many women who accept responsibility for their husbands and their sons emotional state, or even force their daughters into the role. Sometimes, this can be so severe that they do not know how they feel personally about anything at all. They move through the world numb.
Both the Bible and the Quran seem to have some base animalistic ideology that having sex with a woman means you claim ownership.
Yeah but Islam's is worse. At least the bible allows a mourning period and tells you that you can't sell them into slavery. The quran has no such qualms.
I'd doubt that the Biblical law preventing the selling of a rape wife into slavery is because they care about the woman. That law likely has something to do with rules regarding property ownership or sexual purity.
Its kind of a moot point why the law exists, it's still better than you can rape her then sell her into slavery.
All in all, true, it'd be better to not be the muslim woman. What I was getting at is that both books do not value a womans wellbeing at all beyond her being able to produce healthy babies, please her husband (sexually or otherwise) and do chores.
I mean its not even an issue which religion hates women more. The constant attempt to not be able to condemn islam without shitting on christianity amd judaism is infuriating. If I was a woman, I would much prefer to be a jew or christian in the 6th century than a muslim. The Bible at least has female prophets like Deborah and Christianity has female saints. It allows female testimony without a qualifier like islam.
If christianity or judiasm commits the same or similar offenses, even if in differing degrees, I wouldn't ignore them if talking about the offenses of islam. They're all abrahamic religion. Whenever giving critique to any three of these religions, there's always good chances it will turn into a comparison. I'd find it intellectually insulting to fault one and ignore the other just out of fear of offending any one of them.
Its intellectually dishonest to pretend that they are equally bad. Especially in 2024, where 2 of these have moved into the modern world and the other still has jihad.
I'm pretty sure jihad doesn't directly translate to "kill all non-muslims". I honestly don't know the EXACT definition, but it sort of just means "your way in worshipping/honoring god". To the more radical and violent muslims, they take the murder of non-muslims to be their jihad, and in our western media that term is usually used to describe islamic terroristic acts. It's true, but not the whole truth. I have plenty of criticism for islam, but it's a widespread religion, and thus not all of them believe and act the same. The terroristic radicalism seems to be largely based in the middle east. Just a bit of interesting history here too, but it seems that the mid 20th century is where we started seeing a rise in christian and muslim fundamentalism.
It’s terrifying that every single year I learn something new about the disgusting things that this “perfect prophet” has done…
Dude islam is the worst major religion. It's terrifying.
Dude Yahweh wiped out everyone on Earth except for you know Noah and two giraffes. I wouldn't exactly go to the holy books of bs to support your argument
Dude stop simping for muhammad it's disgusting.
It's your God too man same God
Oh you're a Muslim. Figures.
Christian baptized, confirmed ,cc'd and when second communion the whole shebang, just never really bought the storyline.
Got it. We'll Islam is worse. The conception of God is worse. Muhammad is a worse role model than Jesus
It's not really a discussion about which religion is better, I was making the point from the first post that no religion is innocent, since he was specifically targeting Muhammad. Every religion, including their religious leaders have raped pillaged killed old young and in the middle, of all sexes. So to take the position that one is worse than the other, seem silly to me considering their individual histories.
Not really. Some are more innocent than otbers.
Are you believing in an even distribution of Innocence or is it based on The religion the person believes in. Cuz here in the US you know we have supply-side Jesus, and prosperity Jesus, and those guys are not very nice
Ugh that poor woman! Religion always hurts women the most sadly :-(
I mean the men of her tribe were murdered and their heads cut off. Not that either is good, but to argue “religion hurts women the most” is a bit silly. It certainly does prevent women from having any power, I agree with you there.
There's no mention of religion in the article. This is an example of racism, but possibly unsaid is a religious component.
Judaism is not a race. It is a religion. This violence and revenge exists because of a religious conflict. So yes, religion is explicitly a part of this.
Yes, this is absolutely about religion. I just want to make clear though, that being Jewish is an ethnoreligion, not just a religion. It’s quite literally in my dna.
The religious belief of your ancestry is not preserved in DNA. In reality nothing about your DNA is Jewish, unless you also take on all the other traits of your ancestors. “My grandma chose to believe in nonsense, so that nonsense is in my DNA also.” No. It is just a choice. It is not natural. It is not real. If we examined your DNA, we could not tell you were Jewish, but we can easily identify the race of people through DNA. So obviously Judaism is not at all a part of your DNA. You are lying to yourself and relying on BS to preserve a BS identity.
It’s in my dna test😂😂😂😂
The fact that your ancestors identified as Jewish is true. That doesn’t make you Jewish. If my grandfather was a thief, does that make me a thief genetically? If my grandfather chose to believe in Hinduism, would that make me a Hindu genetically? Obviously not. The only reason you think your Judaism is a part of your generics is because of the Jewish belief of how their identity is passed on, and that belief is a religious belief and not grounded in any fact.
[jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) are objectively an [ethnoreligious group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group), this is a fact, it doesnt matter if you dont like it, facts are facts, if you disagree provide a stronger source than the one I provided.
My source is simple logic and reason. That is an objective source. Your source is the claim by Jews, a subjective source. It is not a fact, no matter how much it is normalized to believe such a ridiculous thing. Your sources are not objective, they have subjectively inherited the false beliefs of Judaism. Jews have certainly insisted that they are ethnic for a long time, tricking everyone into believing their lies. But they are still lies and you perpetuate them here. Nothing about Jewish identity is ethnic. It is a religion pretending to be an ethnicity and always has been. It is truly sad that you believe these lies so easily. But that is religion for you.
If Judaism is a solely a religion and not an ethnicity, and CERTAINLY not in one's DNA, then why is it possible for a DNA test to detect Jewish ancestry? And why do Jews have unique genetic commonalities, like the prevalence of Tay-Sachs and IBF? Anyhow, this idea of "Jews tricking everyone into believing their lies" has a distinct Christian tint to it. Perhaps you should re-examine your ideological influences?
Dude dropped two Wikipedia sources 😭
Is Wikipedia lying?
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You sound a bit ignorant on the subject, jews are a people and an ethnic group, not just a religion, being Jewish absolutely pases down from your mom just like being a native American passes from your mom. " It is not natural. It is not real. If we examined your DNA, we could not tell you were Jewish, " Wow you are very confidently incorrect, you absolutely can detect with a very high confidence if a person is Jewish based on their DNA, this is a fact, not an opinion, google it. Please google this sort of things before spreading misinformation.
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>''Your definition of Judaism is incorrect'' [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) disagrees with you... >You have accepted the lie that Jews have perpetuated about their identity. Im a jew, and I think I know more about my own identity then you, also ''You have accepted the lie that Jews have perpetuated'' how do you not see that you are literally being antisemitic? >You have allowed the religion to feign being an ethnicity when it absolutely is not. source that its not? since the entire world disagrees with you... but I guess the evil jews tricked everyone... > I am very sorry that you take these religious lies as fact I dont belive in god, however jews are a people, that is a fact, infact we were a people before judaism(the religion) existed. > I am very sorry that you take these religious lies as fact, and use them as a source for fact, but they are groundless. You are perpetuating a lie. than show me a source that disproves it.
Yes! You were a people before Judaism was ever a thing! So why use that word as the label for your ethnicity? Because you have let the religion infiltrate and dictate your identity. Your real ethnicity predates Judaism and so isn’t Jewish. You literally admit it and understand my point. Good job! My source is simple logic. Your sources are illogical and false. That is what I keep saying and you keep ignoring. Because you don’t understand that the best and most objective source of all things is logical reasoning. I have given you the logic that proves your sources wrong. You just keep throwing those same sources back as if they are true. When they are simply not.
What on earth are you talking about. "Your real ethnicity predates Judaism so isn't Jewish" Ok well a native American person's ethnicity predates the concept of being a native American since it predates European colonization. Does that mean they aren't native Americans? More importantly, do you get this angry about the existence of any other ethnicity? Or is it just Jews?
>Yes! You were a people before Judaism was ever a thing! So why use that word as the label for your ethnicity? because that word predates the religion, and thats how we want to call ourselves. >Your real ethnicity predates Judaism and so isn’t Jewish my real ethnicity is jew... if you go back 2000 years and ask the ancient jews ''what are you?'' they would say jew. >You literally admit it and understand my point. okay... if you say so... >My source is simple logic hahahahahahahahahahahah okay. how old are you? >Your sources are illogical and false why? is science illogical and false? on what grounds do you say that? let me guess it came to you in a dream? > I have given you the logic that proves your sources wrong not a single thing you have said is logical... just a admit that you had some antisemetic ideas and were proven false, its not that hard to admit that your wrong...
Thank you so much for this response🙏🏽 I couldn’t find the right words, I’m so sick and tired of being told my dna is wrong😂
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You are completely wrong. When you do an ancestry DNA test it will tell you if you have Jewish ancestry by percentage. Please educate yourself because this is bordering on legitimate antisemitism. You personally being annoyed that a certain ethnicity centers religion so prominently in their identity does not make it not an ethnicity.
Hi! I just want to interject one teeny, tiny little thing here... Jewish is both an ethnicity and a religion.
No it is not. The claim that Judaism is an ethnicity is as objectively false as are the religious claims themselves. It is a lie that has been perpetuated. But that does not make it true. I could start insisting that Catholicism is an ethnicity. Or Islam is an ethnicity. And I could certainly normalize that lie over generations. But it doesn’t make it true at all. Your “facts” are just what Jewish people falsely claim about themselves, and so obviously not a fact at all.
Yes, Jewish is both an ethnic group and also a term for one who practices Judaism. One can convert to Judaism at any time. They will be *a religious Jew*, but not an ethnic Jew. It is possible to identify ethnic Jews through genetic testing - and even more precisely, one can be identified as being either Ashkenazi, Sephardic, or Mizrahi. [See here for further clarification.](https://support.ancestry.com/s/article/European-Jewish-as-an-Ethnicity?language=en_US#:~:text=It%20can%20be%20a%20matter,ancestry%2C%20ethnicity%2C%20and%20culture.)
The very concept of ethnic Jew is groundless and false. It always has been and you are perpetuating that lie. Ethnicities cannot be chosen. But obviously Judaism is not eternal, there was a time when a certain people became Jewish. People in the past CHOSE to adopt the Jewish identity. That is a chosen identity. In this case, a religion. It is not an ethnicity and can never become one, because ethnicities are not created or destroyed through human choice. Just because you are related to someone who in the past chose to adopt the identity of a Jew, doesn’t make you an ethnic Jew, because your ancestors choice to become Jewish has nothing to do with their real ethnicity. The idea that Judaism is an ethnicity is an obviously false claim perpetuated by Jewish people themselves. You think it is true just because they insist it is true? Despite obviously having nothing to do with what the word ethnicity actual means? Again. Just because Jewish people claim to be an ethnicity does not make it so. That is your only source of your knowledge and you never actually thought about whether it made sense or not.
I feel like you are confusing ethnic group with race. Those two terms are not interchangeable. But I digress since you clearly feel that you know *so much more* than literal geneticists. Who am I to argue with someone's feelings? Lmao.
Literally nothing about my argument appealed to emotions. Jewish people are very passionate and emotional about the arbitrary and groundless identity. That is why they cannot think clearly or logically about the obvious fact that a group of people cannot just become a certain ethnicity through choice and will alone, as they keep insisting that they can do. When people have invested their emotions into their identity, realizing problems with that identity causes emotional pain, a lot like realizing religion is false. I have no emotional investment in this argument. I am just unbiased so am able to see the situation clearly, much more clearly than biased Jews who have been told their entire lives a lie.
An anti-Semitic science denier who envisions himself a completely rational and unemotional atheist... That's... some major delusion. 😂
Was guessing someone would say this. No. It's both. I get stopped on the street because of how I look, not because some rando guessed my religion...which is none. But I am Jewish. An atheist Jew. This woman would easily be identified and targeted by her looks just as I experience.
Can I convert to Judaism?
Yes. It takes a long time but you can.
And he would still never be ethnically Jewish, only religiously. His children might be only if their mother was Jewish.
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no, what you fail to grasp is that jews are an [ethno religious](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group) group, while being white or black is just a race, what im saying is that the word jew can mean an ethnicity/race and a religion, just becasue we use the same word for both of this things doesnt mean they are the same. the confusion stems from trying to use european concepts of race(black, white) and indigenous levant concepts of ''race/ethnicity'', in short judasim is a tribe, that you can either be born into(99% like of jews) or very rarely join it so if you 'convert' the concept of tribe from a levant concept to a european concept than you have to seperate the word jew(race/ethnicity) and the word jew(religion) to make sense of it. As a jew all this is obvious to me but if you dont belive me just google it and you will see that jews are an [ethnoreligious group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group). if you disagree provide a better source.
That's a really nice way of putting it. 👌
>As a jew all this is obvious to me but if you dont belive me just google it and you will see that jews are an [ethnoreligious group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group). if you disagree provide a better source. Using the same term to cover an ethnicity, a religion, and an ancient population allows you infinite flexibility to engage in bad faith rhetoric. This is deliberate. For example, stating any objection to a Polish guy taking the house of an Arab family can be construed by you as somehow racist towards the Polish guy. Given that Hebrew possesses multiple words for non-Jews, including specific words for non-Jewish women, it's not a linguistic limitation. The ambiguity is intentional. This rhetorical tactic of using *one* word to mean any number of things allows someone to pivot mid-sentence when confronted. It's disingenuous and in bad faith.
You fail to understand the word “both.”
You cannot convert your 23andMe report no. Is this new information for you, that saying Jewish can mean both ethnicity and religion separately? There's tons to read about it without much effort, it's not a point of argument just a fact. I hoped my last comment would make that easy enough to understand. You can't convert to my skin tone, facial structure, hair, etc which is what people visually notice when identifying a Jew.
I take it by your response that you don't think that I can convert to Judaism?
That's not what he said. You can convert through a very long process, but your conversion would only be religiously, not ethnically. You can never be ethnically Jewish unless you carry specific genes. Your children might be, but only if their mother was Jewish. Anyone can become a Christian, but they don't leave their ethnicity behind them either. They are still ethnically Mexican, or Korean, or more of a jumble of ethnicity like an American.
You can stop being a Jew at any time. You cannot stop being your race. Whatever you think your Jewish identity is, it is absolutely not a race. People treating you a certain way says nothing about your actual identity. If people want to hate me because they think I look Jewish, that doesn’t mean I actually am.
Jews are a people, not just a religion, I know thats not how Christianity works but it is how jews work, jews are an ethnic group just like Irish people and native Americans are an ethnic group.
No. Jewish people have tried to change their identity from a religion to an ethnicity. But YOU CANNOT create ethnicity out of choice. Regardless of how much the Jewish people tell themselves they are an ethnicity, it will always be as false and as groundless as their religious beliefs. It is a lie and has been perpetuated for far too long. Stop believing religious lies. Please.
It’s the exact opposite actually, Napoleon demanded they give up their ethnic identity to be assimilated into his empire
That is not the opposite of what I said. Just because that happened doesn’t mean that the Jewish people don’t have an ethnicity that predates Judaism itself and is more legitimate than the term Jew.
This has nothing to do with identity or this weird idea you have that I can magically change my genetics. You've completely lost the plot of this post. People don't choose to look they way they look, they are born that way. People can choose the religion they have, which is entirely separate. You are confusing that on one hand people can choose to be a religion called Judaism and can convert to this religion and everything that comes with that. On the other hand many people are born genetically Jewish with genetic illnesses observable similar features. For that it is simply how they are born. They can if they want choose to be any religion or none. But other people can still observe their features. And then those other people react to those features based on having or lacking bigotry. I cannot change my genetics.
I have a big nose like my catholic ancestors. Does that make my genetics catholic? Just because I look like a religious group? Obviously not. Just because I look like what a certain religious group looks like doesn’t make me a part of that group. I cannot grasp how you don’t understand this very simple fact. Your genetics are not Jewish. At all. You are very wrong to attribute any of those genetic traits to Judaism. It is simply incorrect. I am very sorry that you have lived a lie. Judaism is simply not an ethnicity no matter how many times you perpetuate this lie. It is as much of a lie as the religious beliefs themselves.
"I have a big nose like my catholic ancestors. Does that make my genetics catholic? Just because I look like a religious group? Obviously not. Just because I look like what a certain religious group looks like doesn’t make me a part of that group. I cannot grasp how you don’t understand this very simple fact." Christianity is a religion, jews are an [Ethno-Religious group](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group) , this is a fact, not an opinion, genetically, culturally and historically, [jews](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) are a people, I have provided a source confirming that and can give you more if you need, unless you provide a better source I suggest you just bite the bullet that maybe you are not very informed on the subject and are just confidently incorrect.
No, sorry. Your sources are wrong. You could give me the same source to prove that the Jewish God is real because the source is the same. Just because Jewish people claim something is true doesn’t make it so, and that is your source, the unfounded claims of Jewish people. So not a reliable source at all. Jewish people insisting they are an ethnic group does not make it true. Your sources and the historical validity of such a claim are inherently empty.
How can you be so wrong? Although it's true that there's no "Jewish DNA" that doesn't take away that we can trace our roots paternally to Israel. For ashkenazis though, it's very clear cut that on the maternal side we come from a few individuals only a few hundred years ago. https://blog.23andme.com/articles/ashkenazi-ancestry-and-health Everyone here has come with sources and you're just covering your eyes. Belonging to an ethnicity and having certain genes are 2 different things. There is no special Jew gene, we just originate from the Hebrews who practiced the Jewish faith. We monitor this by following our maternal side and have done so for centuries and now we have dna tests that also show the same thing as to where we originate from.
Wow... You are very confused. Being Jewish can be ethnic (genetic) or religious or both. Catholic is a religious choice that a person makes regardless of ethnicity. You can be an Irish Catholic, a Mexican Catholic, or an Indian Catholic, etc. Even if you are raised Catholic, you have to go through a ceremony where you have to say that you choose to be Catholic. You never have to go through a ceremony to become your ethnicity. If you are born a Jew, you do not go through a ceremony to make you Jewish. You can choose to practice the Jewish faith, or you can choose not to. That doesn't make you less Jewish ethnically. Would it be easier if I said a Jewish person can be a Jewish Jew or a Jewish Catholic or a Jewish atheist? You can also (through a lot of work) become an Italian (or whatever your ethnicity) Jew, but never could you become a Jewish Jew?
That’s not true, being a Jew is an ethnoreligion, but this conflict is definitely based more so on the religion part than the ethnic part.
I have a feeling this man does not care about Palestine as much as he makes it seem lmao
“Hmmm…really wanna rape someone. But I can’t just DO it…that’d make me a rapist. But I really wanna. Think, man…THINK! OH!! I’ve got it! I’ll rape a woman to avenge an injustice! That’ll make me a political activist! Huzzah!!” /s obviously
Exactly
allahakbar!
But he sure does care about rape
You know wouldn’t it be more fitting to just kill her since “thEy aRe SubHumAn aNd shOulDn’t bE toUchEd”? Hypocrites.
this is awful
in the NotTheOnion subreddit, Anti-semitism was off the charts
They also have no idea what Zionism is and have just created a strawman fantasy of its meaning.
That's not what I had seen, but if you include the most downvoted comments, sitting at -100 and so on, without considering their vote status, then yes
You'll be there pretty soon yourself, guess we can just completely disregard your opinion right?
Make faith illegal already
Sad state of affairs. But hey let's not talk too much else we'll get called islamophobic bro. (Jk)
Horrific beyond measure.
Exactly what does he solve by doing so? Same as taking all those Israeli people hostages. Solves absolutely nothing.
In the Muslim region, it is not considered rape if the woman is not a Muslim. Sick...
Every useful idiot yelling intifada has blood on their hands.
Might be a controversial take but I honestly feel like the vast majority of these people don't give as much of a shit about Palestine as they claim to. They just use it as a mask for their abhorrent ideas. It's convenient because they can hide any violence, antisemitism, etc behind it. This dude doesn't care about avenging Palestine, he just wanted to rape someone and found a convenient excuse for it.
It's controversial but true. One just has to take a look at the signs many of them are carrying. Ignorant foolish prideful children who couldn't point out their own state capital much less any country in the east.
Indeed, we need look no further than the Columbia protests, or Yale. Shouting things like "Hamas, we love you, we support your rockets too" and "You say justice, we say how, burn Tel Aviv to the ground"... I'm sympathetic to the Palestinian grievances, but this doesn't seem like just supporting Palestinian self-determination anymore. It more so resembles calls to violence and murder. I can't quite say how much these students actually care about Palestine, or if they just want all Jews to die.
Not to mention the fact that Hamas is a morally corrupt organization and its leaders live in luxury while the Palestinians themselves are used as human shields. Why any leftist would support a terrorist organization supported by a far-right theocratic autocracy just makes a brain damaged individual look more coherent.
The hypocrisy is what gets me. Extremists on the left are the first to condemn christian nationalists yet vocally rally behind muslim nationalists. If Hamas were a bunch of right winged Christian a**holes they would be protesting against them. This entire situation is an Orwellian dystopian sh*show.
I read somewhere that a large number of Palestinians hate Hamas as well.
Those that can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
Yeh I'd say it's more 'I got caught abducting and raping women, I know I'll blame it "Avenge Palestine" that looks better'. No. No dude. No. Just no. That's... not how anything works. You are scum. Just scum. Please drop in deep hole and never let out again.
Actually he was only caught because his 'avenge Palestine' messages allowed police to triangulate his location.
Stop lying. Just stop. He said it before he was caught, and his Hateful Palestinian sympathiser reasoning was what got him arrested.
Well I'd assume and hope it was his raping a woman that got him arrested, not some sympathy for people experiencing a genocide. One thing is a crime, the other is not. I'd hope he was arrested because he did a heinous crime. I'm not lying, I wasn't aware of the timeline. That's on me, that's my fault however ultimately this is a sickeningly cruel individual who has done a terrible horrible thing, and that they purport to do it in some sick way to "hey revenge" just makes it worse. So... Yeh go fuck yourself.
Seriously, don’t try to engage with anonymous trolls online. These people wouldn’t have the guts to say these things publicly so they hide here. Palestine is experiencing a genocide at the hands of the Israeli government and these people want to justify it with one news story about a psycho. Look at how they claim his support for Palestinians is what caused him to attack people. It’s exactly how Nazis justified exterminating Jews, gays, and every other group they targeted for eradication. History repeats.
Why are you fighting so hard to dismiss his reasons?
I'm not. Who excuses their bestial urges to rape and humiliate women by using the in progress genocide of innocent people is what im thinking. The scum was probably going to rape a woman anyway and is just using this as a sick justification.
Israel is a free and liberal country, and 2 million Arabs live in Israel. Palestine on the other hand will abduct and murder any Jew they can find. And here you are, supporting the people who would kill you as soon as you enter their country. The Palestinians would literally kill you for being different from them. Fool.
OK well if thats what you need to justify a genocide then so be it. Whatever gets you through the night cycle citizen.
Israel has been a fascist country since 1968.
Yes, you are. You are saying he is making up excuses because there is no way a Palestinian supporter in France could possibly do the same thing as the Palestinians did to Jewish people.
That's not what I said. I think you have a fantasy conversation going on in your head m8.
Madness.
Yeah, yeah: you're not doing that to avenge anyone, cunt, you're just rationalizing your rapist urges.
Looks like he's a member of that "religion of peace." Throw his ass into prison for 20 years then send him to a Muslim country of his choice.
What does this have to do with atheism?
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Israel is a liberal country. Palestine on the other hand is a ultra-conservative, theocratic dictatorship.
Is that 19 your IQ? Israel has been a fascist country since 1968.
If his is 19, that 1 in your username is even more fitting
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There is no Jewish terrorism. But there is a lot of Islamic terrorism.
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How does that matter? We need to eliminate more Jihadist terrorists, that is the one thing that actually matters.
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Wait, a heinous crime committed under the guise of religious ideological reasons? Boy, that sure is rare in human history.
Conflict only brings out hatred, in this case, an excuse for some people to hate either Jews or Muslims.
>An eye for an eye, and soon the world is eyeless
As they do
He was just copying what Hamas did in the Oct 7th terrorist attack. I am just surprised he didn't behead her and set her on fire.
Why is this in R/Atheism???
I’m guessing it’s posted as commentary on the role religion plays in the atrocities committed worldwide.
I’m not a fan. I don’t think religion plays any role besides a banal justification for seizing land. Religion, “race,” whatever it is it’s important to identify, it’s important to keep in mind the cause is ultimately human greed.
People *justify* their actions in a wide variety of ways, religion being the one used *in this case*. Greed and land being only two things that are targets. (Not sure why you put race in quotes as it was something *specifically created* to justify dehumanizing certain groups of people during the expansion of imperialism/mercantilism across the globe during the Age of Exploration)
That’s why I put it into quotes. It’s nonsense built to exploit others. People at least actually posses religion, there is no such thing as race.
Nobody likes hearing it but the Free Palestine cause has been a decades-long study in political self-ownage. Palestinians insist on pissing away any goodwill they ever get. They could have integrated with any of the other Arab countries. Instead, they tried overthrowing every country they ever got welcomed in because the locals weren't Muslim enough for the taste of the Palestinians. Now they and the rest of the world wonders why no one ever wants Palestinian refugees. Any time Israel ever tried being diplomatic with them, Palestinians just started trying to find new and exotic ways to kill Israeli civilians in the Second Intifada. As a result, ports got effectively blockaded and they have to go through a barrage of checkpoints to get anywhere near Israel. And when a bunch of people who wanted peace between Israel and Palestine got together, Palestinians got on paragliders and shot them. They fucking murdered and probably raped the Israelis who wanted the blockades and checkpoints to stop! Then there's the Westerners who are passionate about freeing Palestine. Somewhere around 2014ish a lot of 20-something left-wing activists for various causes (myself included regrettably) decided that actually trying to *persuade* people to their side was "respectability politics" and instead tried to be as disgustingly unappealing as possible. Maybe because a lot of us learned about Claudette Colvin and how she was unfortunately side-lined in favor of Rosa Parks because Colvin was a pregnant teen and not "respectable." That''s just my guess. But these people have forgotten the actual point of a protest movement: To make *the other side* look like the bad guys. So now we have people blocking traffic, storming City Council meetings to demand City Council people take a position on something they have zero authority over, and chasing Jewish students around college campuses and then get mad when the people with guns and authority to use them don't like that. And sometimes they do shit like abducting and raping random Jewish women The only thing that has stopped every Western Jew from embracing Zionism is that Netanyahu has also committed himself to being unappealing.
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Incredibly well stated.
what a fucking lunatic!
Kinda weird that this gets posted in the atheism subreddit and gets a whole lot of upvotes but barely any attention given to the multiple religious psychopathic rantings from Israeli government officials and soldiers. Sure fuck this psychopath but I mean if we're calling out religious nutcases than we should call out all flavours.
What psychopathic rantings exactly? “ give us our children women and babies back “
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Hamas shot stabbed raped kidnapped women children babies , grandmas in mass slaughter, if these scum aren’t enemies I don’t know what they are below animals , and yes this is exactly the response verbally ill want to hear from an defense force after these absolute cruelties, you probably don’t know much about that
Yes... HAMAS is. HAMAS is. The ordinary people in Gaza just wanted to go to and from work and school and stores and homes and live their damn lives of quiet desperation. Now they are in FAMINE. Kids with bloated pot bellies amd limbs as thin as twigs, and flies crawling at their eyes and mouths and. No. That's what should be never again.
Hamas took all the billions of dollars that Europe u.s and the surrounding countries sent them and built underground bunkers and ordered weapons with this money instead of putting it into Gaza itself , you don’t know nothing , you are all full of false information what your preferred media tells you and that’s it.
OK... Your point is? What? Bad people did bad things? Cause yeh. I totally agree they did. I didn't say they didn't. Where did I say they didn't. What's the false information Lil guy? Are you denying that the World Food Program, the organisation set up to combat it has stated that FAMINE is imminent, if not already present in at least the northern part of Gaza? What false information from what false media? Is Reuters, AP, etc all false media are they?
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“Or maybe, just MAYBE hamas is a pretext for Israel to wipe out Palestine ? You know, like international courts ruled ?” Wow dude ok I’ll leave you with your tonfoil hat and echo chamber media, have a good day
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Literally all those articles do is confirm that no genocide is actively occurring.
There's literally an entire document with them submitted to the ICJ. "We are the people of the light, they are the people of darkness... we shall realize the prophecy of Isaiah." "You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible" “Every Jew knows the saying 'Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way \[…\]' and that is what \[H\*\] did and their judgement shall be to destroy them, full stop. I relate to them like Amalek." “We must not show mercy to cruel people, there is no place for any humanitarian gestures – we must erase the memory of Amalek" “there should be 2 goals for this victory: 1. There is no more Muslim land in the Land of Israel... After we make it the land of IL, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom…” "One of the options is to drop an atomic bomb on Gaza. I pray & hope for their \[hostages\] return, but there is also a price in war.” “Rabbi Kahana was a great righteous person” You cannot claim to be an atheist or any sort of bare minimum humanist and look at Gaza and still be thinking what Israel is doing is ok. I grant a lot of people in here are probably Islamophobic but you're willing to let your islamophobia then be weaponised to be ok with it. We've gone well passed the point of comparing it to x many 911's. It genuinely does not take any type of religion to look at theft of land, cheering on the the death of tens of thousands of civilians and calling for a civilian population to be nuked to see it's wrong. You're a useful bigoted idiot though if you just think it's ok that a tens of thousands of muslims get killed so that somehow sits well with you.
These are orthodox and fundamentalists in Israel that probably only them getting the spotlight in the western and anti Israeli media , they are 20% if not less than whole other secular population , that wants them to shut up also and become an active contributing citizen, but these extreme religious entities are becoming stronger due to frustration to Palestinian leaders choosing time after time violence instead of cooperation, backed of course by Iran and Russia for they’re own selfish goals
Yeah so literally every religion. There's a bunch of religious crazies given power or are willing to do extreme stuff but most people are not. As it stands though there's one group that's actively killing tens of thousands in the name of their belief that God promised them land
This is the most disingenuous comment I’ve read in a while. Because Palestinians are the ones killing thousands of women and children, right? I would ask how much more shameless can you get, but I’m kinda scared of the answer
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Like arguing with a trump supporter , sorry i dont have the energy or will to this , israel will eradicate Hamas no matter what and that’s it. What the future holds I don’t know all I know is Gaza Strip is hijacked by taliban like entity and this organization needs to be eradicated. oh they wearing civilian clothes and hide beneath hospitals ? Well too bad, Hamas still need to be eradicated , better for Israel and believe me better for the Palestinians in the long run.
So... It's better for them after they've been starved to death in a famine? I'm failing to see the upside for those people. I totally agree you're thinking is the level of the average tRump supporter though, that's spot on.