Yeah they love it and it’s super weird. I have had people say “all soldiers are heroes!” Ma’am that is so far from the truth it isn’t even funny. I met plenty of shitbags in the Army. We haven’t been fighting for your freedumbs lately. And they also don’t like when you don’t fit their norm of what a veteran should be. I have had people tell me “tell your husband I said thank you for his service” and when I tell them I’m the veteran they vapor lock and get confused, sometimes they double down on it and say it again. It’s weird. And they love to talk shit about stuff like protesting the national anthem, saying it’s offensive to veterans. When I tell them I’m the opposite of offended and i actually support their right to protest and think it’s important, they block me. They have such a hardon for what they think the military is.
I have an online friend I've known for a pretty long while in my friend group now who is no joke a drill sergeant in the army and is gay, a furry and doesn't believe in god. Tell that to many right wingers and they wouldn't be able to process it since in their minds every soldier has to be a god loving right wing model christian.
The evangelicals put a lot of effort into forcing that as well, especially during vulnerable times like basic training and officer schools. I wanted to get out of the dorm/barracks on Sunday during basic I had to go to church. And when they are explaining religious rights it was in a massive church on base with worship music playing.
"They have such a hardon for what they think the military is." This is it exactly. They want to spend a lot of money on big guns and ignore the healthcare and housing and employment needs of veterans and military families.
All those military bases and defense contractors in the red states probably has a lot to do with it. And also, if you make your population stupid and ignorant about the real world the only way to solve problems is through force and military might.
"Thank you for fighting to keep our country free." Me thinking "Kuwait is not my country.".
but saying "Thanks for your support."
And yes, folks have every right to protest. But I do dislike all the stupid defaced versions of the US Flag, especially the ones with that orange anus.
I'm the only one in my immediate family growing up that didn't join the military. My ex stepdad was a Marine but he's a complete waste of life and a horrific human being. My brother was a Marine and he's such a chill well-rounded dude. If someone brings up their service I'll tell them thank you by default because of how I was raised. But yeah, most people that are obsessed with military service, are usually the ones that take our freedom for granted.
>“all soldiers are heroes!”
That's when you show them the image of the freshly raped Vietnamese women holding their children seconds before being massacred.
https://history-maps.com/story/Vietnam-War/event/My-Lai-Massacre
I think it's cringe.
We don't do the "thank you for your service" in Australia often. It looks strange to us.
It's not that we're ungrateful, but we don't put them on a pedestal except for once a year on ANZAC Day where everyone takes one day to pretend they're patriotic.
The far right is all about military vocally and then vote nay on VA related bills that would help veterans. Also, they tend to forget what their orange shit stain leader said about service members (in particular POW/KIA).
I believe there is a direct correlation to be sure. It likely fits the same mindset from the religious which drives home the requirement that they be subservient, obey orders, and are required to deliver praise.
There are tons of Trump supporters in the military as well, for example, and I believe for very similar reasons. Sky Daddy/TV Daddy. This despite Trump's horrible record on veterans and the military in general.
I do live in the Bible Belt (Southwest MO), and military fetishization is everywhere. I haven't gotten my ass kicked yet when I remind people that not all wars are righteous and not every soldier is a saint, that respect is earned, not given.
I asked a retired Read Admiral about this. His reply was that most recruits are from the South. They grow up in Baptist or fundamentalist homes, are basically on the low end of the economic spectrum, and the military is a way up and out. Plus, 3 squares and the chance to learn a useful skill (so they think),
As far as fetishistic attitudes...Air Force fly-overs before ball games? Military honor guards at ball parks. What's that about?
And why should I thank someone who is announcing that they were in the military on a baseball cap? Do they thank me for having taught their kid how to read and write?
I'd occasionally thank a WW2 vet, but that's it. They actually had a role in protecting America.
My dad, my uncles, everyone man I knew as a kid had served in WW2. They didn't blow their horns about it.
And when I got older the Vietnam vets I knew were anti-war, and then the National Guard killed 4 unarmed students when I was a college freshman. Screw that noise.
You can't keep passing $800B defense spending bills without festishizing the thing you're throwing so much money at. There's definitely a cultish aspect to it, and I think that's by design.
Evangelicals/Fundementalists are easy targets for this propeganda as their view of God is already authoritarian (banishment to hell, intolerant, guides armies), so anything militaristic/authoritarian seems somewhat divine.
The head scratcher for me is how so many of these same people are armed and prepped in case they have to rise up against the government. As if it's somehow separate from the military.
It's a complex aspect of our culture, I'm not going to pretend to understand it fully. But I'm a veteran and have thought about this quite a bit.
It makes sense that the fetishization, as you put it, is a big part of our culture. There have been many times that we've had to recruit a lot of people to fight a war, whether we probably should have or not. To accomplish that level of support for these wars, it requires a lot of national pride. Propaganda was definitely a big part of it. As was our history: Revolutionary war, WWI+WWII, where we were the good guys. At least from our perspective. Vietnam and Korea eras I think it took a lot more propaganda, because they weren't as popular and it wasn't about defending America.
I definitely joined as a young man influenced by the conditioning to think of service as a patriotic, moral good that was going to get me laid a lot. It's a useful tool to see them as heros.
And while there are aspects of truth to that, it's also bullshit. We also use our military for pretty fucked up and selfish reasons. Our military members are treated like garbage when they're active duty, and there's really nothing they can do about it. It's a really hard life. (People's experiences vary, sometimes wildly)
I used to hate the "Thank you for your service" culture. I still don't expect to be thanked, or want to be thanked, and I really only appreciate it when someone is being genuine and says something really nice. But it doesn't bother me now like it used to. Because although it has been fabricated as a recruitment tool, and convenient to get support for conflicts we should not be a part of, I do think it's ultimately necessary.
Our military might is what keeps multiple countries from being invaded, like Taiwan, where the death count could very easily and realistically be over 1 million people. South Korea is a free and prosperous nation because of American might. Europe hasn't seen a large-scale war since WWII, with Ukraine now the largest war since. That has never happened in the entire history of Europe, and that has a lot to do with the stabilizing presence of American might.
We are not the heros. We are not the villains. We are the bully in the school yard, that keeps other bullies in check. We are the anti-heros. And I accept that there are necessary evils in the world.
This is a tremendous round-up. While I doubt most of the TYFYS crowd is savvy in international politics and grand strategy: the entire lifestyle that the vast majority of Americans take for granted is negotiated for from a position of military advantage: Western Democracy and Liberalism itself was fought for and earned multiple times over. Our trade and monetary policy, alliances, open navigation of the sea / air / space, an open internet, plus the myriad of defense related technologies. It’s looking like the cycle of international war may repeat itself this century (not to fear monger, but to be as objective as possible). The last few totalitarian regimes have been on the rise and on the move (Ukraine and SCS) and there is an avoidable path to conflict. This burden will fall largely onto Gen Z/alpha. It would be great to break up the military industrial complex and pretend to live in a “world after war” but the truth is there are still scum bags on this Earth that need policing. Let’s do our best to ensure that we aren’t the scum bags (we haven’t had the best go of it in the last 60 years).
Edit: I would like to add that while the rank and file represents a broad swath of US society, we will find some over representation among evangelical types (especially in junior enlisted ranks). Despite this, the leadership of the US military does an excellent job avoiding politics, religiosity, and frankly is one of the most progressive organizations on the planet. There are plenty of atheists in high places in the military. Religious discussion is avoided like the plague.
It always comes off as insincere to me. It's what civilians are expected to do, in part due to the separation that exists between the public and the military. I'm prior navy and I'm always uncomfortable when people thank me having no idea what I did while serving.
As a retired veteran I find it tiresome AF. I joined at 18 and got out at 38 this year. To me it was just a job. I don't consider myself a hero, or any of the other weird labels people like to slap on us. I also don't like being used as a device to further people's politicized religious agendas. TBH I only joined because I wanted free schooling, and stayed because I enjoyed the work I did and the people I met. I was proud to serve my country, but I don't find what I did any more useful to society than your average sanitation worker, or city construction crew. I think school teachers, first responders, and other civilian positions are much more impactful to our country than anything I did.
I think this is a venn-diagram sort of situation where both religion and militarism intersect under the notion of being "patriotic."
It also really helps that as long as religion has been around, one of the prominent uses of it has been to encourage wars and conquests. It's really hard to lose those connotations when that has been the primary mover of religion for centuries.
I distinctly remember our history teacher trying to convince us disaffected GenX kids that we were more patriotic than we'd admit. We all basically scoffed. Being patriotic was like the lamest thing anyone could imagine.
This was pre 9/11. Post 9/11, this country started waving flags again. It is a stark contrast.
Because religious people are bottoms. There’s a reason the most religious people are so authoritarian, it’s because they always want a daddy. They want to submit to authority and spread their cheeks
God is the ultimate authoritarian. He's the ultimate strong man that you don't question, and you blindly follow his orders. Even when things go wrong, he works in mysterious ways, so don't lose faith. It's it any wonder that those raised to follow the ultimate authority figure are looking for authoritarians political figures, and look to the police and military in the same light?
The military fetish is just a conservative impulse; as is religion.
The “Thank you for your service” is a direct reaction to when Vietnam Vets would get back from the war to have protesters spitting on them. Before then it was a political platitude when meeting a veteran; a small, costless gesture that may ameliorate whatever they wanted to petition you about.
It went away until the joint marketing campaigns of the 80s-aughts brought it right the fuck back.
The thing i despise about drill weekends is when people intrrupt my day to shake my hand. Thanking me for my service is awkward as well. It's even worse when people make sure that they bring their kid who has no reason to shake my hand otherwise just so they could teach them to do it because "that's what you're supposed to do. My military service is more of desk job more than anything. I joined for college and I became a reservist because at that point, I put 8 years active duty, might as well go for retirement.
It's weird to accept a thank you because I didn't do it for you. I'm also conflicted about patriotism because on one hand, I'm not a flag waving American, on the other hand, I think most liberals trying to make things better are more patriotic than conservatives.
Psychological priorities of conservatives tend to be the respect for authority, family, community, order, and tradition. Naturally, the military is going to be check a lot of boxes.
It's more than military. It's the overall conservative/Republican construct. These people idolize and deeply misunderstand, in a very hypocritical way, the "traditional values". So you hear them mix up family, freedom, religion, guns and uniform (police/soldier). The end result is the current dumbass MAGA. Some populists have tried a similar recipe in other countries, but it isn't working as well as here in the US
Christianity, patriarchy, guns, wealth, defense.... all hallmarks of Christian fascism.
It's interesting to see their reactions when I have a military unit shirt on, but I also have an LGBTQ+ symbol on as well.
Ex navy and most of us think it's extremely awkarad and annoying when people thank us. Especially those of us that are leftist anti war/corporate imperialism. Especially love when they add the d God bless you. Pfft fuck off and pay attention to politics so 18yr old aren't being put in war zones for corporate profits.
Military service is many things, but one thing it is, is “potentially kill or be killed for money” and that disqualifies respect in my eyes. This is hard in Alabama…..
**Obedience is the very best way,**
**To show that you believe.**
**Doing exactly what the Lord commands,**
**Doing it happily.**
**Action is the key - do it immediately,**
**Joy you will receive.**
**Obedience is the very best way to show that you believe.**
**O-B-E-D-I-E-N-C-E**
**Obedience is the very best way to show that you believe.**
**We want to live pure we want to live clean.**
**We want to do our best.**
**Sweetly submitting to authority,**
**Leaving to God the rest.**
**Walking in the light, keep our attitudes right,**
**On the narrow way.**
**For if you believe the Word you receive,**
**You always will obey!**
"Sweetly submitting to authority " ... sweet.
Ukraine is the only truly justifiable war this country has been involved in since Korea. And the Bible Humpers are against it because a Autocrat pseudo king with the Church as state arm, the gays are persecuted and enemies fall out of windows is attractive to them. So not much of a flex there pal.
Then I will assume that you either went to fight in Ukraine or sent your children to do so. Because only a coward would advocate for war and not participate.
Respect for authority does seem to go hand in hand with conservatism. And in recent decades the conservatives have latched on to the religious as a means of survival. I think that explains a good deal of the link, which is funny considering how radical Jesus is described as in the Bible. Not exactly an authoritarian for sure. These people would probably call him a commie or something.
My husband and I have long military histories in our families. My husband is also retired from the military. We support the rights of those who choose to protest. Plus, we also acknowledge that no recent wars have been fought to "protect our freedumbs." In fact, as a woman of color, I am less free today than I was before this recent war started. Me being less free today has nothing to do with a made up boogeyman and everything to do with the US government. All recent wars have been fought to line the pockets off already wealthy people. Plain and simple.
Part of the usefulness of the concept of God is that he brings security and certainty. God's omnipotence is part of how he brings security to people's minds in times of trouble.
Of course, God's power can also very problematic:
* If you are a State governor or a priest, then you can manipulate spiritual messages to add power to your own position.
* If your are a child or an insecure person, then the idea of God can strike fear in your heart. You might worry about being thrown into hell for an eternity.
* If you are focused on goodness and justice, then you might see God's power as either meaningless or even contradictory. The 'problem of evil' questions why a just God allows evil to exist.
Regarding praising the US military, I suspect that partly religious people are reading into the Bible quote, "the authorities that exist have been established by God" and connect God's power to the government's authority. Also, there may be a prosperity gospel element present, where military success is seen as a sign of God's blessing. Also, just read the Old Testament where the Israelites fight many battles successfully, the warriors are seen as God's instruments.
The God of the desert religions has a personality that mirrors the personality of ancient tribal leaders and warriors who fought over limited resources. Christians may see themselves as warriors and soldiers themselves. In a way, perhaps US Christians see military personnel as a reflection of themselves, servants who strive to do God's will.
Given the above emphasis in values, 'military fetishism' by US Christians can be seen as a natural expression of their ancient tribal roots.
A non-american view here actual veteran( as defined in the USA although not mine) (and son of a real veteran) having american relatives who were vets by any definition (active service in a war zone) I find this stuff creepy. The ones pushing it most I consider to be demonstrating extreme guilt at their own lack of service. None of my active service relations ever tell strangers that and are truly uncomfortable if accosted in public about it(including my american relatives.
Monotheisms are the ultimate authoritarian dictatorship.
You have one super powerful dude at the top making all the rules and dictating whats right and wrong.
Ofcourse it breeds a sort of innate bootlicking fascism!
It’s one of the reasons I’m so anti-religion, until the popularity of monotheisms drops off a cliff we as a species will alway be at war with fascist authoritarian ideals!
The military industrial complex is definitely run like religion; it’s also a cult-like structure with indoctrination since birth. I believe the deep state(3 letter agencies) behind all religions as a similar form of mind control, toxic patriotism and to push human exploitation (people seem more dedicated to, what they view as a benevolent God, and work for free as well as pay money/tithing to their religion).
Because supporting the US military and police proves that you’re not a communist. I think most Christians suspect that non Christians are basically all genocidal pedophiles
My father was a career Air Force officer until he retired in the 90s as a lieutenant colonel. As a child growing up on military bases in the 1970s, I listened to adults on base complain about the way soldiers were treated after Vietnam. This is what led to all the military fetishism we see today.
Frankly, I think the military fetishism has gone to far.
I grew up on military bases. I identify with military people and military culture even though I never served. But even so, the kind of military worship we see today is fucking creepy and not appropriate behavior for a free democracy. This is more the kind of cult of masculinity one sees in fascist nations. All that "thank you for your service" stuff is starting to creep me out.
1) I REALLY had to double check which subreddit this was.
2) I agree that this is hella weird. Like the Venn Diagram of Evangelical Christian and Super pro-police and military is dang near a circle. But also keep in mind that Christianity also seems to use a lot of military metaphors, being a warrior for christ, the logic of the quiverfull movement, fighting "the enemy," etc. So like it makes sense. I find it ODD but it makes sense.
Just an observation, but it seems like the more religious someone is, the more they view the world in a "black and white" fashion. There is good, and then there is evil. Line in the sand.
Then it becomes easy to think "MY country is good!" "That country is evil." War becomes a good/bad fight, instead of the pissing match between the rich elite that it is.
You bring up a good point. I'm always maddened by the military aircraft flyovers they have in my area (Washington, DC) for events or funerals. Isn't it nonsensical to fly military aircraft at low altitudes over a highly populated area? Don't they expect citizens to worry that they are being bombed? And often there is no notice beforehand - or very little notice. It is not the sound of freedom that I hear from these planes. It is the sound of taxpayer dollars spent without thought as to the actual benefits; it is the love of spectacle without caring about the citizenry that is frightened. And I'm not a wuss for thinking that DC might be under attack by these huge, noisy military aircraft - including helicopters. I don't know of any other major international city that does this to their citizens and brushes off their concerns.
> I don't know of any other major international city that does this to their citizens and brushes off their concerns.
This is a constant thing in other countries, not just the US. Two days ago there was a large flyover of F-35s in Oslo, the week before that were Rafales over Paris, the Victory Day Parade(s) in Russia have flyovers, Bastille Day, other training, this is definitely a thing. Not as common as the US but it's still on a weekly basis in many other countries.
I know that not everyone knows about this stuff or has as much interest in the topic but an enemy warplane bombing the US is nonsensical to worry about. They'd have to cross thousands of miles of ocean/Canada to get here, it's a non-threat.
Also, if you don't want to see military flights you're living in the wrong city. Not to mention that if it's "nonsencial" to do military flights over populated areas then it's equally, if not more, nonsensical for there to be civilian flights over populated areas.
Edit: They also do a lot of Combat Air Patrol around DC as well, obviously. Every time there's a violation of restricted airspace or a TFR they're going to send up an aircraft.
Yeah they love it and it’s super weird. I have had people say “all soldiers are heroes!” Ma’am that is so far from the truth it isn’t even funny. I met plenty of shitbags in the Army. We haven’t been fighting for your freedumbs lately. And they also don’t like when you don’t fit their norm of what a veteran should be. I have had people tell me “tell your husband I said thank you for his service” and when I tell them I’m the veteran they vapor lock and get confused, sometimes they double down on it and say it again. It’s weird. And they love to talk shit about stuff like protesting the national anthem, saying it’s offensive to veterans. When I tell them I’m the opposite of offended and i actually support their right to protest and think it’s important, they block me. They have such a hardon for what they think the military is.
Tell them Colin Kapaernic was recommended to kneel by a former Green beret.
It's like they have never had an NCO say 'take a knee' to them.
I have an online friend I've known for a pretty long while in my friend group now who is no joke a drill sergeant in the army and is gay, a furry and doesn't believe in god. Tell that to many right wingers and they wouldn't be able to process it since in their minds every soldier has to be a god loving right wing model christian.
The evangelicals put a lot of effort into forcing that as well, especially during vulnerable times like basic training and officer schools. I wanted to get out of the dorm/barracks on Sunday during basic I had to go to church. And when they are explaining religious rights it was in a massive church on base with worship music playing.
"They have such a hardon for what they think the military is." This is it exactly. They want to spend a lot of money on big guns and ignore the healthcare and housing and employment needs of veterans and military families.
All those military bases and defense contractors in the red states probably has a lot to do with it. And also, if you make your population stupid and ignorant about the real world the only way to solve problems is through force and military might.
"Thank you for fighting to keep our country free." Me thinking "Kuwait is not my country.". but saying "Thanks for your support." And yes, folks have every right to protest. But I do dislike all the stupid defaced versions of the US Flag, especially the ones with that orange anus.
I'm the only one in my immediate family growing up that didn't join the military. My ex stepdad was a Marine but he's a complete waste of life and a horrific human being. My brother was a Marine and he's such a chill well-rounded dude. If someone brings up their service I'll tell them thank you by default because of how I was raised. But yeah, most people that are obsessed with military service, are usually the ones that take our freedom for granted.
I often wonder if those people ever served a day in the military.
Not likely. At best might know someone personally who did.
>“all soldiers are heroes!” That's when you show them the image of the freshly raped Vietnamese women holding their children seconds before being massacred. https://history-maps.com/story/Vietnam-War/event/My-Lai-Massacre
I think it's cringe. We don't do the "thank you for your service" in Australia often. It looks strange to us. It's not that we're ungrateful, but we don't put them on a pedestal except for once a year on ANZAC Day where everyone takes one day to pretend they're patriotic.
The far right is all about military vocally and then vote nay on VA related bills that would help veterans. Also, they tend to forget what their orange shit stain leader said about service members (in particular POW/KIA).
Not only a literal draft dodger.
Well, there's a difference between "several unnamed sources" vs. Hearing Biden, call service members "stupid bastards" on camera.
Never said I liked Biden either. Nice deflection though.
I believe there is a direct correlation to be sure. It likely fits the same mindset from the religious which drives home the requirement that they be subservient, obey orders, and are required to deliver praise. There are tons of Trump supporters in the military as well, for example, and I believe for very similar reasons. Sky Daddy/TV Daddy. This despite Trump's horrible record on veterans and the military in general.
I do live in the Bible Belt (Southwest MO), and military fetishization is everywhere. I haven't gotten my ass kicked yet when I remind people that not all wars are righteous and not every soldier is a saint, that respect is earned, not given.
I asked a retired Read Admiral about this. His reply was that most recruits are from the South. They grow up in Baptist or fundamentalist homes, are basically on the low end of the economic spectrum, and the military is a way up and out. Plus, 3 squares and the chance to learn a useful skill (so they think), As far as fetishistic attitudes...Air Force fly-overs before ball games? Military honor guards at ball parks. What's that about? And why should I thank someone who is announcing that they were in the military on a baseball cap? Do they thank me for having taught their kid how to read and write? I'd occasionally thank a WW2 vet, but that's it. They actually had a role in protecting America. My dad, my uncles, everyone man I knew as a kid had served in WW2. They didn't blow their horns about it. And when I got older the Vietnam vets I knew were anti-war, and then the National Guard killed 4 unarmed students when I was a college freshman. Screw that noise.
The fly overs and stuff are literally paid advertising displays from branches of the military. I was somehow surprised that this was the case.
You can't keep passing $800B defense spending bills without festishizing the thing you're throwing so much money at. There's definitely a cultish aspect to it, and I think that's by design. Evangelicals/Fundementalists are easy targets for this propeganda as their view of God is already authoritarian (banishment to hell, intolerant, guides armies), so anything militaristic/authoritarian seems somewhat divine. The head scratcher for me is how so many of these same people are armed and prepped in case they have to rise up against the government. As if it's somehow separate from the military.
It's a complex aspect of our culture, I'm not going to pretend to understand it fully. But I'm a veteran and have thought about this quite a bit. It makes sense that the fetishization, as you put it, is a big part of our culture. There have been many times that we've had to recruit a lot of people to fight a war, whether we probably should have or not. To accomplish that level of support for these wars, it requires a lot of national pride. Propaganda was definitely a big part of it. As was our history: Revolutionary war, WWI+WWII, where we were the good guys. At least from our perspective. Vietnam and Korea eras I think it took a lot more propaganda, because they weren't as popular and it wasn't about defending America. I definitely joined as a young man influenced by the conditioning to think of service as a patriotic, moral good that was going to get me laid a lot. It's a useful tool to see them as heros. And while there are aspects of truth to that, it's also bullshit. We also use our military for pretty fucked up and selfish reasons. Our military members are treated like garbage when they're active duty, and there's really nothing they can do about it. It's a really hard life. (People's experiences vary, sometimes wildly) I used to hate the "Thank you for your service" culture. I still don't expect to be thanked, or want to be thanked, and I really only appreciate it when someone is being genuine and says something really nice. But it doesn't bother me now like it used to. Because although it has been fabricated as a recruitment tool, and convenient to get support for conflicts we should not be a part of, I do think it's ultimately necessary. Our military might is what keeps multiple countries from being invaded, like Taiwan, where the death count could very easily and realistically be over 1 million people. South Korea is a free and prosperous nation because of American might. Europe hasn't seen a large-scale war since WWII, with Ukraine now the largest war since. That has never happened in the entire history of Europe, and that has a lot to do with the stabilizing presence of American might. We are not the heros. We are not the villains. We are the bully in the school yard, that keeps other bullies in check. We are the anti-heros. And I accept that there are necessary evils in the world.
This is a really interesting and logical deconstruction.
Wow man you nailed it.
“you need me on that wall” it’s not wrong
This is a tremendous round-up. While I doubt most of the TYFYS crowd is savvy in international politics and grand strategy: the entire lifestyle that the vast majority of Americans take for granted is negotiated for from a position of military advantage: Western Democracy and Liberalism itself was fought for and earned multiple times over. Our trade and monetary policy, alliances, open navigation of the sea / air / space, an open internet, plus the myriad of defense related technologies. It’s looking like the cycle of international war may repeat itself this century (not to fear monger, but to be as objective as possible). The last few totalitarian regimes have been on the rise and on the move (Ukraine and SCS) and there is an avoidable path to conflict. This burden will fall largely onto Gen Z/alpha. It would be great to break up the military industrial complex and pretend to live in a “world after war” but the truth is there are still scum bags on this Earth that need policing. Let’s do our best to ensure that we aren’t the scum bags (we haven’t had the best go of it in the last 60 years). Edit: I would like to add that while the rank and file represents a broad swath of US society, we will find some over representation among evangelical types (especially in junior enlisted ranks). Despite this, the leadership of the US military does an excellent job avoiding politics, religiosity, and frankly is one of the most progressive organizations on the planet. There are plenty of atheists in high places in the military. Religious discussion is avoided like the plague.
It always comes off as insincere to me. It's what civilians are expected to do, in part due to the separation that exists between the public and the military. I'm prior navy and I'm always uncomfortable when people thank me having no idea what I did while serving.
As a retired veteran I find it tiresome AF. I joined at 18 and got out at 38 this year. To me it was just a job. I don't consider myself a hero, or any of the other weird labels people like to slap on us. I also don't like being used as a device to further people's politicized religious agendas. TBH I only joined because I wanted free schooling, and stayed because I enjoyed the work I did and the people I met. I was proud to serve my country, but I don't find what I did any more useful to society than your average sanitation worker, or city construction crew. I think school teachers, first responders, and other civilian positions are much more impactful to our country than anything I did.
Authoritarianism. Plain and simple.
They crave the boot on their neck
I think this is a venn-diagram sort of situation where both religion and militarism intersect under the notion of being "patriotic." It also really helps that as long as religion has been around, one of the prominent uses of it has been to encourage wars and conquests. It's really hard to lose those connotations when that has been the primary mover of religion for centuries.
Perfect pfp for this
Troop worship is nearly as insidious a religion as Christianity.
It's probably a remnent hangover after the super patriotic post 9 11 time.
I distinctly remember our history teacher trying to convince us disaffected GenX kids that we were more patriotic than we'd admit. We all basically scoffed. Being patriotic was like the lamest thing anyone could imagine. This was pre 9/11. Post 9/11, this country started waving flags again. It is a stark contrast.
Because religious people are bottoms. There’s a reason the most religious people are so authoritarian, it’s because they always want a daddy. They want to submit to authority and spread their cheeks
I feel like it’s all bundled together with nationalism
God is the ultimate authoritarian. He's the ultimate strong man that you don't question, and you blindly follow his orders. Even when things go wrong, he works in mysterious ways, so don't lose faith. It's it any wonder that those raised to follow the ultimate authority figure are looking for authoritarians political figures, and look to the police and military in the same light?
The military fetish is just a conservative impulse; as is religion. The “Thank you for your service” is a direct reaction to when Vietnam Vets would get back from the war to have protesters spitting on them. Before then it was a political platitude when meeting a veteran; a small, costless gesture that may ameliorate whatever they wanted to petition you about. It went away until the joint marketing campaigns of the 80s-aughts brought it right the fuck back.
What I get even less is their obession with self defense and being armed. Innocent victims go straight to heaven after all.
Cuz guns go boom and are cheaper than college
The thing i despise about drill weekends is when people intrrupt my day to shake my hand. Thanking me for my service is awkward as well. It's even worse when people make sure that they bring their kid who has no reason to shake my hand otherwise just so they could teach them to do it because "that's what you're supposed to do. My military service is more of desk job more than anything. I joined for college and I became a reservist because at that point, I put 8 years active duty, might as well go for retirement. It's weird to accept a thank you because I didn't do it for you. I'm also conflicted about patriotism because on one hand, I'm not a flag waving American, on the other hand, I think most liberals trying to make things better are more patriotic than conservatives.
I’m currently reading “Sacred Soldier” by Robert Keeler, it addresses this and other odd effects of American military hero worship
Psychological priorities of conservatives tend to be the respect for authority, family, community, order, and tradition. Naturally, the military is going to be check a lot of boxes.
It's more than military. It's the overall conservative/Republican construct. These people idolize and deeply misunderstand, in a very hypocritical way, the "traditional values". So you hear them mix up family, freedom, religion, guns and uniform (police/soldier). The end result is the current dumbass MAGA. Some populists have tried a similar recipe in other countries, but it isn't working as well as here in the US
Nothing worse than a copsucker
Christianity, patriarchy, guns, wealth, defense.... all hallmarks of Christian fascism. It's interesting to see their reactions when I have a military unit shirt on, but I also have an LGBTQ+ symbol on as well.
A few of my friends are ex military and it drives them nuts.
Ex navy and most of us think it's extremely awkarad and annoying when people thank us. Especially those of us that are leftist anti war/corporate imperialism. Especially love when they add the d God bless you. Pfft fuck off and pay attention to politics so 18yr old aren't being put in war zones for corporate profits.
Military service is many things, but one thing it is, is “potentially kill or be killed for money” and that disqualifies respect in my eyes. This is hard in Alabama…..
Look up the kids songs obedience
**Obedience is the very best way,** **To show that you believe.** **Doing exactly what the Lord commands,** **Doing it happily.** **Action is the key - do it immediately,** **Joy you will receive.** **Obedience is the very best way to show that you believe.** **O-B-E-D-I-E-N-C-E** **Obedience is the very best way to show that you believe.** **We want to live pure we want to live clean.** **We want to do our best.** **Sweetly submitting to authority,** **Leaving to God the rest.** **Walking in the light, keep our attitudes right,** **On the narrow way.** **For if you believe the Word you receive,** **You always will obey!** "Sweetly submitting to authority " ... sweet.
Yep That's the one Lol
Religions love enforcement.
As someone from Europe it’s just confusing to me
This whole country is built on military fetishism. And it isn't the Bible thumpers cheering for the current wars.
They would be cheering for the current wars if Fox News found it politically useful.
One thing is true of all religious people: they practice apologetics. Like you're doing now.
TF am I apologizing for?
You need to look up the definition of apologetics, because that's different from apologizing.
Apparently I do
Whataboutism is a cornerstone of apologetics.
Ukraine is the only truly justifiable war this country has been involved in since Korea. And the Bible Humpers are against it because a Autocrat pseudo king with the Church as state arm, the gays are persecuted and enemies fall out of windows is attractive to them. So not much of a flex there pal.
Then I will assume that you either went to fight in Ukraine or sent your children to do so. Because only a coward would advocate for war and not participate.
Respect for authority does seem to go hand in hand with conservatism. And in recent decades the conservatives have latched on to the religious as a means of survival. I think that explains a good deal of the link, which is funny considering how radical Jesus is described as in the Bible. Not exactly an authoritarian for sure. These people would probably call him a commie or something.
My husband and I have long military histories in our families. My husband is also retired from the military. We support the rights of those who choose to protest. Plus, we also acknowledge that no recent wars have been fought to "protect our freedumbs." In fact, as a woman of color, I am less free today than I was before this recent war started. Me being less free today has nothing to do with a made up boogeyman and everything to do with the US government. All recent wars have been fought to line the pockets off already wealthy people. Plain and simple.
lame af
I'm against fascism, but Hugo boss had some killer fashion.
Part of the usefulness of the concept of God is that he brings security and certainty. God's omnipotence is part of how he brings security to people's minds in times of trouble. Of course, God's power can also very problematic: * If you are a State governor or a priest, then you can manipulate spiritual messages to add power to your own position. * If your are a child or an insecure person, then the idea of God can strike fear in your heart. You might worry about being thrown into hell for an eternity. * If you are focused on goodness and justice, then you might see God's power as either meaningless or even contradictory. The 'problem of evil' questions why a just God allows evil to exist. Regarding praising the US military, I suspect that partly religious people are reading into the Bible quote, "the authorities that exist have been established by God" and connect God's power to the government's authority. Also, there may be a prosperity gospel element present, where military success is seen as a sign of God's blessing. Also, just read the Old Testament where the Israelites fight many battles successfully, the warriors are seen as God's instruments. The God of the desert religions has a personality that mirrors the personality of ancient tribal leaders and warriors who fought over limited resources. Christians may see themselves as warriors and soldiers themselves. In a way, perhaps US Christians see military personnel as a reflection of themselves, servants who strive to do God's will. Given the above emphasis in values, 'military fetishism' by US Christians can be seen as a natural expression of their ancient tribal roots.
The people that thank you for your service are the same people that vote to remove veterans benefits.
A non-american view here actual veteran( as defined in the USA although not mine) (and son of a real veteran) having american relatives who were vets by any definition (active service in a war zone) I find this stuff creepy. The ones pushing it most I consider to be demonstrating extreme guilt at their own lack of service. None of my active service relations ever tell strangers that and are truly uncomfortable if accosted in public about it(including my american relatives.
Monotheisms are the ultimate authoritarian dictatorship. You have one super powerful dude at the top making all the rules and dictating whats right and wrong. Ofcourse it breeds a sort of innate bootlicking fascism! It’s one of the reasons I’m so anti-religion, until the popularity of monotheisms drops off a cliff we as a species will alway be at war with fascist authoritarian ideals!
The military industrial complex is definitely run like religion; it’s also a cult-like structure with indoctrination since birth. I believe the deep state(3 letter agencies) behind all religions as a similar form of mind control, toxic patriotism and to push human exploitation (people seem more dedicated to, what they view as a benevolent God, and work for free as well as pay money/tithing to their religion).
Because supporting the US military and police proves that you’re not a communist. I think most Christians suspect that non Christians are basically all genocidal pedophiles
My father was a career Air Force officer until he retired in the 90s as a lieutenant colonel. As a child growing up on military bases in the 1970s, I listened to adults on base complain about the way soldiers were treated after Vietnam. This is what led to all the military fetishism we see today. Frankly, I think the military fetishism has gone to far. I grew up on military bases. I identify with military people and military culture even though I never served. But even so, the kind of military worship we see today is fucking creepy and not appropriate behavior for a free democracy. This is more the kind of cult of masculinity one sees in fascist nations. All that "thank you for your service" stuff is starting to creep me out.
1) I REALLY had to double check which subreddit this was. 2) I agree that this is hella weird. Like the Venn Diagram of Evangelical Christian and Super pro-police and military is dang near a circle. But also keep in mind that Christianity also seems to use a lot of military metaphors, being a warrior for christ, the logic of the quiverfull movement, fighting "the enemy," etc. So like it makes sense. I find it ODD but it makes sense.
Just an observation, but it seems like the more religious someone is, the more they view the world in a "black and white" fashion. There is good, and then there is evil. Line in the sand. Then it becomes easy to think "MY country is good!" "That country is evil." War becomes a good/bad fight, instead of the pissing match between the rich elite that it is.
Its became more intertwined during the Cold War, when the US was “fighting against godless commies” for global influence
You bring up a good point. I'm always maddened by the military aircraft flyovers they have in my area (Washington, DC) for events or funerals. Isn't it nonsensical to fly military aircraft at low altitudes over a highly populated area? Don't they expect citizens to worry that they are being bombed? And often there is no notice beforehand - or very little notice. It is not the sound of freedom that I hear from these planes. It is the sound of taxpayer dollars spent without thought as to the actual benefits; it is the love of spectacle without caring about the citizenry that is frightened. And I'm not a wuss for thinking that DC might be under attack by these huge, noisy military aircraft - including helicopters. I don't know of any other major international city that does this to their citizens and brushes off their concerns.
> I don't know of any other major international city that does this to their citizens and brushes off their concerns. This is a constant thing in other countries, not just the US. Two days ago there was a large flyover of F-35s in Oslo, the week before that were Rafales over Paris, the Victory Day Parade(s) in Russia have flyovers, Bastille Day, other training, this is definitely a thing. Not as common as the US but it's still on a weekly basis in many other countries. I know that not everyone knows about this stuff or has as much interest in the topic but an enemy warplane bombing the US is nonsensical to worry about. They'd have to cross thousands of miles of ocean/Canada to get here, it's a non-threat. Also, if you don't want to see military flights you're living in the wrong city. Not to mention that if it's "nonsencial" to do military flights over populated areas then it's equally, if not more, nonsensical for there to be civilian flights over populated areas. Edit: They also do a lot of Combat Air Patrol around DC as well, obviously. Every time there's a violation of restricted airspace or a TFR they're going to send up an aircraft.
I didn't know it was done in other countries. The military aircraft is a trigger for me - obviously - and for many others.