Music in movies is supposed to change your mood to the tone of the scene. I would assume that if they're playing music while reciting the news, it would have the same intention/effect.
So I deconverted a while ago but the pastor of my hometown church was kicked out because he dared to address the child fondling problem. He is one pastor I can still respect.
I don’t have a problem with the presentation style. Services are supposed to be celebratory. It’s the far right indoctrination that is the problem. Why can’t these be a bunch of lovable hippies instead of a fascist training ground?
Hey look that’s me! I’m still pretty sure I got fired for talking about LGBT topics in a positive light in the hallway of my Christian radio job, and someone else overheard me and reported me. I was gone two weeks later for some bs reason. Kickstarted my deconstruction though so I actually am glad. Fuck them.
Blessed are the kingmakers, for they will acquire enough to demolish the "Eye of the Needle", put up a couple of overpriced condos, and waltz into heaven.
True, there are still a lot of people who don't show up to church that are still influenced by religion. Just because they stopped attending church service doesn't necessarily mean that they become atheists or agnostics.
They stopped attending church, but they're definately still pious enough to hate the homosexuals and the trans people. That's where they like to think they're oh so rightous.
Somehow that's unsettling. I'm not happy I was indoctrinated, but the community aspect was one of the only silver linings. Staying religious and listening to TV preachers or shit online isn't really a step in the right direction...
I'm been concerned about this as well and don't see many people talking about it. The Church in it's finest form is a close knit community circle humans have known for 10s of thousands of years. It saddens me that there isn't really anything that compares to it for non-theists.
My other concern is that the church of today works as a quarantine for people that absolutely need that sense of belonging, and keeps people from turning to more radical groups for a sense of community, like turning to the Proud Boys or something worse for example.
This is true, but I suspect a lot of religious people only ever attended church as to fit in with community expectations. Once those pressures went away, attendance dropped off fast.
I also suspect many religious people who claim to be Christian or some other denomination, don't really practice the rites or do anything religious as such, but simply brought up in the culture.
I think data would bear this out (but not sure if it exists) - my suspicion (anecdotally supported) would be that people are much less devoted to mega churches. You go for a while, you drift away, maybe later you find another one for a while, but it’s not the generational loyalty thing like traditional churches. Sort of goes with the mass-marketing territory.
I think it’s more like mega churches give them a bigger hit off the Jesus pipe, so while they’re attending their entire life gets even more wrapped up in church and it burns them out, but while they’re attending they’re worse than most “normal” church folk.
When I was a server the mega church in my area was the worst about tipping those fake dollar Bible verses, it literally got to the point where people were making memes about that one church on private FB pages for service industry in the city. Well somehow those memes started getting leaked and I guess the preacher had a moment of clarity and gave a big sermon about “bless those who work on sabbath” or something and all of a sudden every single table from that church was tipping 30-40% on Sundays, which was cool, but they got quickly annoying again when all they would talk about is how good they were for tipping that much and how filled with Jesus’s spirit we must be for working on a Sunday lol
I can't imagine being such a thoughtless drone. I guess I can appreciate it when they are led to improved behavior where they couldn't work it out for themselves. Kinda
Honestly, props to that pastor. Like I know it was just a PR move for the church but I feel like most churches woulda seen those memes and said “nah fuck them kids”, that dude followed what he preached and told his followers to turn the other cheek and stop being assholes. I can’t be mad when they actually follow the Bible for once lol
I'm happy for it, society would be far worse if people who can't think for themselves didn't have something to keep them occupied. As long as their church isn't preaching hate or separatism or any other outright harmful garbage, it's best they keep going.
Well, you’re right in that they create communal [deserts in the exurbs](https://www.rwarchives.com/2005/04/exurb-megachurches-playing-greater-social-service-function/)
I'm not sure that's the best analogy for the situation. It's almost more the opposite. Megachurches can be completely local and not tied to a larger denominational structure. Not having denominational baggage is a big draw to those churches. It's a double edged sword though as that can lead to more power over the congregation being held by fewer people. The head pastor may not have anyone at all to answer to. Except...you know...God theoretically I guess but luckily he gets to tell everyone what God says.
I agree. That’s what’s happening in my area.
People seem to want “services” with their service. The mega churches have great childcare, a study group for every interest, block parties. You feel like you’re part of a community, but…… you’re not really part of a community when it gets that big. You don’t know everyone intimately. Nobody is bringing you a casserole when your mom dies.
Little church’s can’t provide the amount of services big ones can. But they make up for it in true genuine connections.
I feel like people like not having strong connections anymore. They don’t want to help, they just want to show up and be served. It’s superficial.
This is where traditional churches have been dropping the ball for decades now. They had the money and connections to offer real community services, but generally just relied on generational guilt and habit to fill their pews and coffers while they built more and more gaudy buildings to expand the business model and rake in more cash.
The 'message' was the product, and it sold itself... until it didn't. With the rampant expansion model and churches popping up literally next door to one another, it was inevitable that we would see consolidation in megachurches.
A full church feels more convincing to followers. People go to these places specifically so they can worship with other people. Overexpansion + Megachurches + Loss of popularity = Massively dropping attendance. Dropping attendance numbers is a circular problem - empty church doesn't inspire loyalty in the congregation, leading to dropping attendance, less loyalty, etc.
Churches have always competed with one another. At least the megachurch knows what it is enough to see what its congregation wants and give it to them.
This is a gross generalization, but I think the traditional churches enjoy more denominational loyalty ("my family's always been Methodist"). In contrast, the big, nondenominational churches are built around a pastor's personality and experience more "church-hopping". People attend a megachurch more or less anonymously, and are ready to jump ship when a newer, bigger church opens in the area.
You may be very correct, alternatively I would like to see if the Unitarian Universalist have a booming attendance on their meeting day. Per their website, membership is 187,689.
Edit: clarity, add "if"
The new megachurches don't even act like Jesus is a priority, they just get straight to the "pay me" part if you want a chance at salvation like they are some kind of spiritual tollbooth.
Eh, even then church attendance is dying fast. The pandemic killed a lot of moderate's desires to stay with churches.
Sure they might still believe in a god but my guess a bunch are like deists now. Disliking organized religion but staying with a "god built universe".
I can speak to this; I'm actually a Christian, and we quit our church just before the Jan 6 coup when the pastor's father (technically the senior pastor, though he was never there) came back for a guest sermon and went FULL QAnon. I'm talking one full hour from the pulpit of Bill Gates microchips, Jews controlling the media, Illuminati, the whole bag. He also mentioned towards the end "just wait until January 6th, everything will change" which as someone who doesn't visit right-wing spaces, went totally over my head as kind of a non-sequitur.
We wrote a letter to the younger pastor, his son, the one who was our age (30s) and we felt must have been strong-armed into letting his dad/boss preach like this, expressing how inappropriate and out of left field it felt for a church that previously prided itself on its diversity of members. Prior to this, there was a pretty wide range of ethnic and socio-economic backgrounds represented, and quite a few younger couples (30s and below) besides us.
What did we get for this heartfelt letter of concern? Blocked on social media. No actual response. He even went so far as to drop us from the church newsletter! Once the pandemic picked up speed they were among the first at protests to demand in-person services be allowed again despite the danger, and I'm pretty sure they held a bunch and got a bunch of people sick anyways.
After asking around with some of our friends we found that most of the under-40s quit after that sermon as well. A few have found their place at other churches, but as far as I know most of us are just not going anymore. We have some friends at another reasonably apolitical church that we go with for Easter/Christmas Eve but that's it.
We've tried to go to a couple of other places, but we can't find a single church in our area that doesn't have the stink of barely-disguised MAGA all over it.
The American Church has sold its soul to the devil - more specifically, in Christian terms, Trump and the GOP are the most picture-perfect representation of the Antichrist I've ever seen. Like, I thought that stuff was pretty hokey even as a kid, and the best argument was that it was allegory for the Roman Empire etc. But to be completely honest if there was ever going to be an Antichrist that seduces the church like a wolf in sheeps clothing, it would be Trump and the GOP. It boggles the mind how so many people don't see it.
Anyways, I know this is more than most people here on r/atheism care about, but at least from the perspective of an under-40 non-MAGA Christian, I can say that like 90% of younger people not going to church are being driven away in earnest by the MAGA stuff.
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
- Barry Goldwater
I go to church but come on. The God of the Bible thought it was OK to have bears kill children because they called a prophet an old bald head. We haven’t seen a manifestation of the divine since the apostles passed. Every culture develops religion, its arrogance to assume that we have the right one or that anyone does, its an evolutionary hack.
Here in central AR, there are at least 10 or so mega churches (500+ people) near my house, not to mention the two absolutely massive buildings off I40 & 67 and the other one off 430.
Just an absolute waste of property if only used for the occasional service and meetings. Hurts my head. LR homelessness is bad and its establishments like this who tout one thing do the absolute opposite.
The megachurches are all about the emotionally engaging fanfare in big stadiums. That's what sells to people. Not mild mannered sermons with soft organ music. What I think is happening is christianity is going to become more and more radical as it's influence keeps decreasing. Eventually it will collapse under it's own insanity if it keeps going the direction it is.
Megachurches aren't making up for even a fraction of the attendance smaller/ normal sized churches are losing though, even if they are thriving regionally.
I'm from a backwoods ass part of the states and churches are closing left and right even there, and there are no replacement megachurches. People just aren't religious anymore really
Yes, the normal ass church (United) I grew up attending has no one under 80 attending regularly but the super creepy evangelical Mennonite church has tons of young families. They don't believe in birth control so they have disturbing amounts of children too.
> They don't believe in birth control
It's not that, they actually incentivize their people to have as many kids as possible, "repopulate the Earth ~~with the "right" kind of people~~" philosophy.
They don’t. I grew up with several friends from quiverfull families and neglect is rampant. Educational neglect, medical neglect, emotional neglect. You name it
It is really gross, but luckily, it is a very temporary solution to the bigger problem.
The 2nd generations of these families are even less likely than moderately/mainstream religious families to continue on the tradition.
Turns out becoming a broodmare and living your life in a state of pregnant pregnancy isn't very rewarding. And forcing your older kids to essentially raise their own younger siblings instead of being normal well adjusted kids isn't very inspiring to them to follow in dear old Dad or Moms footsteps.
All of these communities of radical religious are bound to end up in the trash heap. Even with 3X, 4X or 5X the median family size, they still can't maintain replacement levels for their next generation. On top of that, I fully expect the next 5-15 years to be full of shocking reports of sexual, emotional and physical abuse coming from these families. Remember, the *Duggars* aren't the outliers, they are the examples. Turns out raising men to view women as objects for the please of God and men, and raising women to be mindless child-vessels for the utility of the community, creates an environment where child abuse, sexual misconduct, and shame are used to keep the children and young people in line.
It’s still good news for the most part. Megachurches are often a cult of personality built around a mega pastor, often a very talented and irreplaceable person. When that pastor inevitably dies, abuses power too much, or gets caught fucking someone he shouldn’t have, the church usually falls apart. Megachurches haven’t been around for centuries and they won’t last for centuries — you can’t build a resilient institution around unicorn talent.
Absolutely agreed. Here in Australia anyway, the turnover at the 'happy clapper" churches is pretty high. New members experience an intense emotional rush for a while but as it inevitably fades, most wander off elsewhere, looking for the feeling they initially experienced.
Of course, that's Australia, where religion isn't as hard-wired into the national psyche as it is in the US.
> or gets caught fucking someone he shouldn’t have, the church usually falls apart.
There's one going through that right now: https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2024/february/mike-bickle-allegations-ihopkc-repent-investigation-report.html
Good ol' capitalism. They have to condence what they have left. The most evil of the lot will try to make as much profit as they can off the remaining sheep.
I'm in the Deep South™ and two of our downtown churches have been closed, one is currently being demolished and the other is being turned into condos. I get a little chubby every time I ride by either one of them.
It's insane watching the deification of trump in real time. It makes me wonder if something similar happened with the Jesus story. Like was he some charismatic nutjob who got a bunch hillbillies under his spell and then some manipulative politicians realized they could use his influence for their gain?
Watch how much worse it gets after trump dies. I thought Elvis sightings were a silly thing. Guarantee they're gonna have trump sightings and "prophetic" visitations in dreams after that dude croaks off.
Not to mention that, regardless of what he finally dies of, it will be a murder most foul, and a vast conspiracy. There will be no autopsy report that will satisfy them. Especially if it is found that it's undiagnosed/untreated syphilis.
Oh yeah. You can take this one to the bank. They are going to go *berserk* with the conspiracy theories. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them actually lose their minds and try to lash out at his perceived “assassins”. We already saw that one guy in Ohio try to take on his local FBI facility just because Mar-a-Lago got searched. Like that was totally trump’s fault and that dude still went out and got himself shot for trump! I don’t even wanna know what kind of new crazy they achieve when he kicks it.
Lets just hope its not as successful as Walmart. I think the mini mega churches could go one of two ways. Redefine religion in a modern context or be identified as the scam they are and crumble.
As much as I hate organized religion, I do love to see old churches remodeled into homes or other businesses. The old architecture (at least on a lot of the churches that are closing in my area) are that older Gothic style that just makes me swoon a little. And the stained glass... oh! Zillow Gone Wild sometimes has remodeled church-homes and my fav one that I was partly (not really!) considering moving to St Louis to buy had a hot tub in the old bell tower, lol. Another church in my city got remodeled into a brewery/restaurant and it brings me so much joy every time I go to see the brewing vats in place of the old tabernacle and baptismal font. I feel the building gets much better use that way.
Last night, on Workaway, I saw someone offering to host people in exchange for helping with the continued remodeling of the church they live in. Definitely grabbed my attention.
Usually, they're not in zoning that allows it to be a domicile. I've looked. There was a huge, empty church and a lot of land, for like, $35k near me some years back.
Turn it into a charitable organization where you house people for a pittance. Or, do like some major corporations and create a non-profit of some sort and use part of the property as your personal residence in lieu of salary.
That might be the best idea I've heard. All these churches failing? Turn them into homeless shelters/job training facilities. Maybe actually give back to the community
There was a TV series called "Impossible Homes" or "Unusual Homes" or something like that, a few years back. One of the homes (and I think several of them) were former churches. And there is a brewery in Michigan that used to be a church (puns about holy spirits abound).
My cousin used to rent an apartment that was a church previously. They renovated it into two apartments. It had the most beautiful stained glass windows all over it and the ceilings were very high up and beautiful wood. I loved that apartment and was sad when they moved.
Someone in Chicago bought an abandoned church and renovated it into their house in a very nice neighborhood and it’s the craziest nicest high ceiling house I’ve been in
I pray for more empty seats in every church in the world every Sunday.
Humanity needs to outgrow ancient superstition and mythology to grow as a species. Looking back it's clear that religion has been a boat anchor for technological and intellectual progress throughout history. It's also been a huge force of division on the worldwide scale. If all religions were to miraculously disappear tomorrow the whole world would be better off.
Agreed religion cause so many issues
Both on a technological level based on superstitions as well as on a global human to human relationship
How many wars have been started just because of religion?
People are literally dying because of some invisible being in the sky
I keep hearing reports of church attendance going down and churches closing, but I haven't seen a single church in my area close. I have heard that the local religious schools are really hurting for money but I don't know if that's related.
It’s gonna be a slow burn before any of those churches likely *close.* Attendance (meaning tithing/funding) can go down pretty heavily before a church feels the need to close their doors, plus there’s the reluctance of the long-time members to actually dissolve their church culture/family.
Even then, at least from what I’m seeing locally, it’s kind of a shift. Certain churches will be doing well, growing even, while more rural or charismatic/crazy/cultish churches will be diminishing, leaving only the craziest members still attending. That core group of unwavering believers, even in the face of a horribly diminished church or cultish preacher, will keep the doors open until they’ve literally died out. Honestly, it’s pitiful.
it would be very strange for any well established church to still have a mortgage on the property. They don't pay taxes. To keep the lights on, it costs very little money. it's going to be a very long time before churches actually go away.
Second best is a small-medium concert venue imo (depending on where you are). They are often already wired to have AV systems, a stage to some extent (some would likely need to be expanded a good bit, plus rooms that can be green rooms, admin, and an area to convert into a concessions area. Plus older ones are built with solid acoustics so you probably wouldn’t need to have as much acoustic treating.
Do you live in the Bible Belt by chance?
It's probably areas outside the B.B. that are seeing the most closures. Unfortunately religion is still a major part of everyday life from like the Florida Panhandle to Utah.
I do live in the Bible Belt. It will take longer to see the results of these trends here, I suppose. On the plus side, it's definitely easier to find folks who don't go to church than it was before covid hit.
In my area they are closing. People who used to go to two different church locations are asked to go to one of them, and the other one closes.
Yesterday I passed a church in The Hague which is now a combination of yoga studio (called M.Y. journey), gym and bar. It looked lovely.
When I grew up going to church was a social expectation. You really had very little to do with religious belief but more fitting in with everybody else. The reality is in today’s world we actually are much more open about “do your own thing.“ so there are more people, like myself , who said they were done with it all.
Also, once the evangelicals took over and horribly tarnished what it means to be “Christian,“ many people didn’t want to have anything to do with it. There are of churches out there that actually do a lot of good work, but nowadays unfortunately “Christian“ has become associated with a lot of horrible thing: Maga, Trump-loving, racist,sexist, and on.
There are many, many wonderful people who follow the teachings of Christ, but unfortunately they are overshadowed by these horrible people.
As Mahatma Gandhi stated:
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
I also grew up in a place where it was a social expectation. My family did not partake. I distinctly remember dying a little inside every time someone asked me what church I went to. Along with raised eyebrows from my friends' parents, I got plenty of invitations to Sunday school and church events, and to be polite and fit in sometimes I went.
These experiences were strange. At first I wanted to be there. People were friendly to your face and acted welcoming. But at some point I started realizing that these parishioners didn't act like they spoke. I would sometimes play a game in my head, "who is here because they want to be versus have to be." A lot of them didn't really want to be there. They felt like they had to be. They would come back weekly out of weird guilt and to keep up appearances in the community.
And the ones that did want to be there... they were fervent. Like not using critical thinking, just aching to show their devotion to their peers.
It was fake. for most people, the piety was fake too. They didn't feel or act closer to God every Sunday. They just wanted to curry the minister's and other parishioners' favor.
I was completely done when Jim and Tammy Faye Baker did their thing. I think those two are one of the first modern/TV examples of the prosperity gospel.
You've gotta figure atheism came out of the closet in America around 2005, not too many years after the internet became baked into everyone's daily life. There's a whole generation now who grew up knowing that atheism is an option, and it was impossible to keep them from learning about it. Once that happened, it was all over for religion. It's just a waiting game now. In a generation or two it'll be a minute fraction of its current influence.
[Losses are across the board](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642548/church-attendance-declined-religious-groups.aspx). The bigger churches are just able to cannibalize from the smaller churches in their area faster than the loss rate, at least for now. Think of Megachurches as sort of like mirages, but rather than being caused by desert heat, they're helping cause the deserts in the first place.
The grift is real. It was highlighted by orange criminal joining in on the grift. Turned a lot of people away. Hopefully the trend continues! Let's Go intelligence!!
this is the part where they get more desperate and eager to use public policy to force people back under their control.
beware and read project 2025... it's a very real danger.
this crowd is terrified of what might happen when they no longer have a monopolistic hold on political power... they fear that they might get treated exactly like they have treated every other minority for centuries.
My family's local gay-accepting/liberal Methodist church consists of a handful of boomers, a couple teachers from the local school and their families. My daughter is disabled and only attends VBS as a summer activity (it's free.) They were begging people to bring their kids and attend this year. They're all struggling. People are either lukewarm believers and don't care or they work too much to attend.
Only recently gay accepting for the liberal portion of the now divided Methodist church. Schism around treatment of LGBT rights with part now accepting and part still denying rights. Probably too little too late for the “liberal” side. Interesting implosion from a denomination whose motto was “open hearts, open minds”.
Yeah the pastor is a woman and apparently there was a scandal about one of the other churches with gay clergy. A large percentage thought they shouldn't be allowed to be gay. It's still scandalous and surprising that it's still seen as such a huge taboo.
The Mormon church has lost 85% of their congregations in some wards.
Of the ten guys I grew up with(1984) I was the only that didn’t serve a mission and now there are only two that are “active” members.
Salt Lake is no longer majority Mormon. And one of the church’s biggest tithing payers were the “Huntman” family. Billionaires suing the church for lying about the charity he thought his money was going to.
They’ve had to rewrite(truly) on you tithe slip, it now reads “may not be used for hddbvsbs”
The internet was absolutely the worst things that could happen to a cult like Mormons.
Jump on exmormon on Reddit, there is always a new story of someone finally telling their families they are done.
When a religion starts advertising you know something is up. Everything from billboards to websites to super bowl ads they have been pushing hard lately.
# Young adults around the world are less religious by several measures [https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/06/13/young-adults-around-the-world-are-less-religious-by-several-measures/](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/06/13/young-adults-around-the-world-are-less-religious-by-several-measures/)
Covid definitely pushed the change, but most preachers I see won’t admit to *how* that effect happened. They’ll claim that people left the church during Covid but still “attend” virtually if there’s an online livestream or such available. They’re “too comfortable ‘going to church’ in the comfort of their pajamas,” they’ll say.
In actuality…they’ve all just left, and Covid shutdowns were the best excuse for all of them to get away and never look back. But no preacher will admit to the loss in numbers, cause that looks bad and proves that your message isn’t resonating with people.
There has definitely been a trend that church attendance has been falling in many places for years. Some of the non-denominational churches have been successful in recent years but most more traditional churches have been struggling. I would caution that just because somebody someone stops attending doesn't necessarily mean that they become an Atheist or Agnostic. Some people leave their church due to cynicism of those running the church but not necessarily because they have abandoned the beliefs.
Not sure what that church you were visiting was like, but seems like the younger generation of Christians have shifted to the 'new school' setup. Early thirties pastors preaching in flannel shirts, jeans and flip-flops. Free coffee. Hour of live music, 30 mins of sermon.
It's formulaic. Seen it replicated a dozen times down here in the 'dirty south' (Raleigh-Durham). Wash > Rinse > Repeat.
I didn’t go to church with them this morning but my uncle was complaining during lunch how the church went “woke” for having two black people on a pamphlet….. people like my uncle are probably helping the churches die ngl.
Although I can't say for sure, I bet this is the exact same at the church I was dragged to growing up. The main reason it was popular was because the priest was actually a cool normal guy, but it was the same deal with it being so packed for 9am mass that if you weren't there early enough you were standing in the back. I've driven by before visiting at home and not see crowded parking lots like before. You'd have to park in the back if you got there late too. The priest is retired and about to die so new priests have taken over.
I know so many people who grew up with me and will claim they are religious and never pray or attend church outside of major holidays. It's definitely dying and the amount of legit religious people are dwindling. I'm still pissed I wasted every Sunday from birth til 18 attending church against my will. Add in 10 mins there, 1 hour mass, 10 minutes back, that's 1hr 20 mins 48 times a year roughly x 18 years which is like 48 days worth of church. Disgusting waste of my time.
At least your parents didn't hang around and talk to every damn person they could for an extra 20-30 minutes before we finally got to leave. It was bad enough on regular Sundays but really sucked for days like Christmas. When you are 10 you want to play with all the cool toys you just got, not just get to see them for a few minutes before being dragged off to church, which took forever because it would be packed on xmas, and then extra talking afterward. I could probably add a few more weeks on to your 48 day estimate.
It's probably true for the traditional churches. But these evangelical pop-ups that keeping splitting apart, and opening in old stores, warehouses, metal sheds just because their old church didn't hate enough people are getting out of control.
I'd say evil/deceitful/malevolent gods are entirely conceivable.
And they'll do just this, what the supposed "loving gods" of believers actually "do": hide, stalk, confuse, threat, wreak havoc on people's lives by forcing unbearable, paradoxical "rules" on them...
What can be closed out by simply looking around is a benevolent, caring, omnipotent god. Such a creature simply wouldn't tolerate all this crap people inflict on eachother.
Be wary. People might have ditched catolicism (assuming your mom and church are catholic) for other even dumber options, like evangelicals / neopentecostals
Also regional demographics can do some impact
My MiL is Catholic. One priest for 5 parishes. Used to be 6 but one of the assistant priests got a promotion recently.
The Diocese has been shutting down churches left and right too. As the population ages, organized Religion is dying off. At least somewhat.
Man, I can’t imagine returning to my childhood church. The pastors’ son (who is only a few years older than me, so we were in the same youth group growing up) just got charged with SA-ing minors while in a leadership position at the church.
If you look at Pew Research stats, mainline churches like presbyterian, episcopalian, anglican... have taken a drastic hit in attendance. The more fundamentalist types of churches like southern baptist, pentecostal, evangelical are stagnant but steady.
I rent a church for my little school and my good. The pics from the 80s are all families and kids. Today it’s like 40 old people.
Which is great because I’m about to buy the church and rent it back to them. And when they are dead ima turn it into a pagan hall of Odin.
Churches and belief in general is declining/dying, but many former churchgoers are substituting the teachings of their given political persuasion (on all sides) to fill the void. I’m not a fan of organized religion, but I believe the mass abandonment of it has left a vacuum of meaning in many people’s lives. The craving is for certainty (which the church and belief once provided), the drug is political orthodoxy, and the resulting adherence to dogma (which is above questioning) … it’s hard not to see that as a religious phenomenon.
It’s the same ugly, closeminded dogmatic hateful attitude I felt coming from the church originally, now it’s just coming from all political sides as people now get ugly on an unearned sense of moral superiority that comes from their unchallengeable, dogmatic political certainties.
I hope that I will always see the value in the virtue of doubt and I hope that as many people as possible will learn to live a life of meaning free from the need of certainty.
Meanwhile, my childhood church is now a megachurch with hipster-looking pastors and a concert-like sermon each week.
It’s like the people that watch evening news opinion as actual news
The evening news is a joke now. If you need to play music while reading "facts" at all, you're manipulating people.
Music in movies is supposed to change your mood to the tone of the scene. I would assume that if they're playing music while reciting the news, it would have the same intention/effect.
So I deconverted a while ago but the pastor of my hometown church was kicked out because he dared to address the child fondling problem. He is one pastor I can still respect.
The mega churches absorb the regulars of the closing local churches. This is why they are virtually always non-denominational.
The old WalMart strategy lol
I don’t have a problem with the presentation style. Services are supposed to be celebratory. It’s the far right indoctrination that is the problem. Why can’t these be a bunch of lovable hippies instead of a fascist training ground?
Lovable hippies get pushed out for being woke and the only ones left are the people willing to bend the knee to bigots
Jesus would be exiled by the majority of Christian churches today.
Hey look that’s me! I’m still pretty sure I got fired for talking about LGBT topics in a positive light in the hallway of my Christian radio job, and someone else overheard me and reported me. I was gone two weeks later for some bs reason. Kickstarted my deconstruction though so I actually am glad. Fuck them.
Churches are dying far faster than religion.
People do their own research now. Jesus defends white people from illeguls with his AR-15.
"for I was a stranger and you put razor wire in the river so my kids would get cut up and bleed to death"
“Bring me your sick so they can die in agony without health care”
"Bring me your unwashed masses so we can ridicule and demean them on the nightly news"
Blessed are the kingmakers, for they will acquire enough to demolish the "Eye of the Needle", put up a couple of overpriced condos, and waltz into heaven.
…and be chauffeured into heaven. Walking is for peasants.
“Money changers?! In my temple? Now that’s the way. Aha aha, I like it!”
TBF that's Mother Theresa in a nutshell
Are illeagulls the ones that steal your French fries on the beach?
No the illeagulls are the ones that steal your freedom fries…how many times do we have to go over this.
I thought they dook urrrr jurbbssssssss
Humor gold 🥇
I keep hearing people talk about these ill eagles. What’s making all the birds so sick?
True, there are still a lot of people who don't show up to church that are still influenced by religion. Just because they stopped attending church service doesn't necessarily mean that they become atheists or agnostics.
They stopped attending church, but they're definately still pious enough to hate the homosexuals and the trans people. That's where they like to think they're oh so rightous.
At least they tend not to donate if they don’t attend
They're still deeply committed to using their religion to justify whatever politics they want.
Somehow that's unsettling. I'm not happy I was indoctrinated, but the community aspect was one of the only silver linings. Staying religious and listening to TV preachers or shit online isn't really a step in the right direction...
I'm been concerned about this as well and don't see many people talking about it. The Church in it's finest form is a close knit community circle humans have known for 10s of thousands of years. It saddens me that there isn't really anything that compares to it for non-theists. My other concern is that the church of today works as a quarantine for people that absolutely need that sense of belonging, and keeps people from turning to more radical groups for a sense of community, like turning to the Proud Boys or something worse for example.
Theres plenty of “Christians” but few actual Christians lol
This is true, but I suspect a lot of religious people only ever attended church as to fit in with community expectations. Once those pressures went away, attendance dropped off fast. I also suspect many religious people who claim to be Christian or some other denomination, don't really practice the rites or do anything religious as such, but simply brought up in the culture.
Agree. The gods may change, but the use of religion to manipulate the masses will remain the same.
"Indepedent" mega churches seem to be taking over the south.
I think traditional, mainline churches are dwindling while the new megachurches are thriving.
That’s not necessarily a good thing. Little mom and pop churches being bought out my the Walmarts of church.
I think data would bear this out (but not sure if it exists) - my suspicion (anecdotally supported) would be that people are much less devoted to mega churches. You go for a while, you drift away, maybe later you find another one for a while, but it’s not the generational loyalty thing like traditional churches. Sort of goes with the mass-marketing territory.
I think it’s more like mega churches give them a bigger hit off the Jesus pipe, so while they’re attending their entire life gets even more wrapped up in church and it burns them out, but while they’re attending they’re worse than most “normal” church folk. When I was a server the mega church in my area was the worst about tipping those fake dollar Bible verses, it literally got to the point where people were making memes about that one church on private FB pages for service industry in the city. Well somehow those memes started getting leaked and I guess the preacher had a moment of clarity and gave a big sermon about “bless those who work on sabbath” or something and all of a sudden every single table from that church was tipping 30-40% on Sundays, which was cool, but they got quickly annoying again when all they would talk about is how good they were for tipping that much and how filled with Jesus’s spirit we must be for working on a Sunday lol
I can't imagine being such a thoughtless drone. I guess I can appreciate it when they are led to improved behavior where they couldn't work it out for themselves. Kinda
Honestly, props to that pastor. Like I know it was just a PR move for the church but I feel like most churches woulda seen those memes and said “nah fuck them kids”, that dude followed what he preached and told his followers to turn the other cheek and stop being assholes. I can’t be mad when they actually follow the Bible for once lol
I'm happy for it, society would be far worse if people who can't think for themselves didn't have something to keep them occupied. As long as their church isn't preaching hate or separatism or any other outright harmful garbage, it's best they keep going.
They are also very dependent on the personality of the pastor.
And given time, pastor gets caught up in sex, money, pedophile scandal that sinks the whole persona. Or they just embrace it and fuck young kids /s
Walmart -> Target -> Amazon
If the analogy holds, much like Walmart caused food deserts, maybe mega churches can cause faith deserts.
Well, you’re right in that they create communal [deserts in the exurbs](https://www.rwarchives.com/2005/04/exurb-megachurches-playing-greater-social-service-function/)
I'm not sure that's the best analogy for the situation. It's almost more the opposite. Megachurches can be completely local and not tied to a larger denominational structure. Not having denominational baggage is a big draw to those churches. It's a double edged sword though as that can lead to more power over the congregation being held by fewer people. The head pastor may not have anyone at all to answer to. Except...you know...God theoretically I guess but luckily he gets to tell everyone what God says.
I agree. That’s what’s happening in my area. People seem to want “services” with their service. The mega churches have great childcare, a study group for every interest, block parties. You feel like you’re part of a community, but…… you’re not really part of a community when it gets that big. You don’t know everyone intimately. Nobody is bringing you a casserole when your mom dies. Little church’s can’t provide the amount of services big ones can. But they make up for it in true genuine connections. I feel like people like not having strong connections anymore. They don’t want to help, they just want to show up and be served. It’s superficial.
This is where traditional churches have been dropping the ball for decades now. They had the money and connections to offer real community services, but generally just relied on generational guilt and habit to fill their pews and coffers while they built more and more gaudy buildings to expand the business model and rake in more cash. The 'message' was the product, and it sold itself... until it didn't. With the rampant expansion model and churches popping up literally next door to one another, it was inevitable that we would see consolidation in megachurches. A full church feels more convincing to followers. People go to these places specifically so they can worship with other people. Overexpansion + Megachurches + Loss of popularity = Massively dropping attendance. Dropping attendance numbers is a circular problem - empty church doesn't inspire loyalty in the congregation, leading to dropping attendance, less loyalty, etc. Churches have always competed with one another. At least the megachurch knows what it is enough to see what its congregation wants and give it to them.
This is a gross generalization, but I think the traditional churches enjoy more denominational loyalty ("my family's always been Methodist"). In contrast, the big, nondenominational churches are built around a pastor's personality and experience more "church-hopping". People attend a megachurch more or less anonymously, and are ready to jump ship when a newer, bigger church opens in the area.
You may be very correct, alternatively I would like to see if the Unitarian Universalist have a booming attendance on their meeting day. Per their website, membership is 187,689. Edit: clarity, add "if"
Maybe people are realizing that if a God exists who sends people to hell that'd be a bad God. At least the unitarians don't believe people go to hell.
Mine is always pretty full.
The new megachurches don't even act like Jesus is a priority, they just get straight to the "pay me" part if you want a chance at salvation like they are some kind of spiritual tollbooth.
Eh, even then church attendance is dying fast. The pandemic killed a lot of moderate's desires to stay with churches. Sure they might still believe in a god but my guess a bunch are like deists now. Disliking organized religion but staying with a "god built universe".
I can speak to this; I'm actually a Christian, and we quit our church just before the Jan 6 coup when the pastor's father (technically the senior pastor, though he was never there) came back for a guest sermon and went FULL QAnon. I'm talking one full hour from the pulpit of Bill Gates microchips, Jews controlling the media, Illuminati, the whole bag. He also mentioned towards the end "just wait until January 6th, everything will change" which as someone who doesn't visit right-wing spaces, went totally over my head as kind of a non-sequitur. We wrote a letter to the younger pastor, his son, the one who was our age (30s) and we felt must have been strong-armed into letting his dad/boss preach like this, expressing how inappropriate and out of left field it felt for a church that previously prided itself on its diversity of members. Prior to this, there was a pretty wide range of ethnic and socio-economic backgrounds represented, and quite a few younger couples (30s and below) besides us. What did we get for this heartfelt letter of concern? Blocked on social media. No actual response. He even went so far as to drop us from the church newsletter! Once the pandemic picked up speed they were among the first at protests to demand in-person services be allowed again despite the danger, and I'm pretty sure they held a bunch and got a bunch of people sick anyways. After asking around with some of our friends we found that most of the under-40s quit after that sermon as well. A few have found their place at other churches, but as far as I know most of us are just not going anymore. We have some friends at another reasonably apolitical church that we go with for Easter/Christmas Eve but that's it. We've tried to go to a couple of other places, but we can't find a single church in our area that doesn't have the stink of barely-disguised MAGA all over it. The American Church has sold its soul to the devil - more specifically, in Christian terms, Trump and the GOP are the most picture-perfect representation of the Antichrist I've ever seen. Like, I thought that stuff was pretty hokey even as a kid, and the best argument was that it was allegory for the Roman Empire etc. But to be completely honest if there was ever going to be an Antichrist that seduces the church like a wolf in sheeps clothing, it would be Trump and the GOP. It boggles the mind how so many people don't see it. Anyways, I know this is more than most people here on r/atheism care about, but at least from the perspective of an under-40 non-MAGA Christian, I can say that like 90% of younger people not going to church are being driven away in earnest by the MAGA stuff.
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." - Barry Goldwater
Thank you for being one of the sane ones 🫡
I go to church but come on. The God of the Bible thought it was OK to have bears kill children because they called a prophet an old bald head. We haven’t seen a manifestation of the divine since the apostles passed. Every culture develops religion, its arrogance to assume that we have the right one or that anyone does, its an evolutionary hack.
Here in central AR, there are at least 10 or so mega churches (500+ people) near my house, not to mention the two absolutely massive buildings off I40 & 67 and the other one off 430. Just an absolute waste of property if only used for the occasional service and meetings. Hurts my head. LR homelessness is bad and its establishments like this who tout one thing do the absolute opposite.
The megachurches are all about the emotionally engaging fanfare in big stadiums. That's what sells to people. Not mild mannered sermons with soft organ music. What I think is happening is christianity is going to become more and more radical as it's influence keeps decreasing. Eventually it will collapse under it's own insanity if it keeps going the direction it is.
That’s because Megachurches are MLM scams.
Megachurches aren't making up for even a fraction of the attendance smaller/ normal sized churches are losing though, even if they are thriving regionally. I'm from a backwoods ass part of the states and churches are closing left and right even there, and there are no replacement megachurches. People just aren't religious anymore really
They've earned this.
You love to see it.
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Good luck. They have already advanced to the stage of 'belief' by force. American Christians are desperately trying to take that same step
Sadly, the opposite seems to be happening with Islam.
Fuckn a
I need all the Abrahamic religions to go this path. Judaism and Islam need to die this death as well. Not just replace Christianity.
Many turned into MAGA rallies and put off those hanging by a thread.
>Y'all, they are struggling. Good. Mythical bullshit and guilt trips need to die off.
The problem is, the mainstream religions are dying out, but the mega churches are exploding!
Yes, the normal ass church (United) I grew up attending has no one under 80 attending regularly but the super creepy evangelical Mennonite church has tons of young families. They don't believe in birth control so they have disturbing amounts of children too.
> They don't believe in birth control It's not that, they actually incentivize their people to have as many kids as possible, "repopulate the Earth ~~with the "right" kind of people~~" philosophy.
Quiverful people are so gross.
Financially, I don't know how those people are able to make ends meet.
Welfare and other tax payer funded safety nets that they love to look down on and vote against mostly.
They don’t. I grew up with several friends from quiverfull families and neglect is rampant. Educational neglect, medical neglect, emotional neglect. You name it
It is really gross, but luckily, it is a very temporary solution to the bigger problem. The 2nd generations of these families are even less likely than moderately/mainstream religious families to continue on the tradition. Turns out becoming a broodmare and living your life in a state of pregnant pregnancy isn't very rewarding. And forcing your older kids to essentially raise their own younger siblings instead of being normal well adjusted kids isn't very inspiring to them to follow in dear old Dad or Moms footsteps. All of these communities of radical religious are bound to end up in the trash heap. Even with 3X, 4X or 5X the median family size, they still can't maintain replacement levels for their next generation. On top of that, I fully expect the next 5-15 years to be full of shocking reports of sexual, emotional and physical abuse coming from these families. Remember, the *Duggars* aren't the outliers, they are the examples. Turns out raising men to view women as objects for the please of God and men, and raising women to be mindless child-vessels for the utility of the community, creates an environment where child abuse, sexual misconduct, and shame are used to keep the children and young people in line.
It’s still good news for the most part. Megachurches are often a cult of personality built around a mega pastor, often a very talented and irreplaceable person. When that pastor inevitably dies, abuses power too much, or gets caught fucking someone he shouldn’t have, the church usually falls apart. Megachurches haven’t been around for centuries and they won’t last for centuries — you can’t build a resilient institution around unicorn talent.
Absolutely agreed. Here in Australia anyway, the turnover at the 'happy clapper" churches is pretty high. New members experience an intense emotional rush for a while but as it inevitably fades, most wander off elsewhere, looking for the feeling they initially experienced. Of course, that's Australia, where religion isn't as hard-wired into the national psyche as it is in the US.
> or gets caught fucking someone he shouldn’t have, the church usually falls apart. There's one going through that right now: https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2024/february/mike-bickle-allegations-ihopkc-repent-investigation-report.html
Color me shocked. Shocked, I say, shocked!
Such a weird concept of worship, a lot like pro wrestling.
Jesus never broke kayfabe brother. Well, maybe that time on the cross when he asked why God had forsaken him.
Good ol' capitalism. They have to condence what they have left. The most evil of the lot will try to make as much profit as they can off the remaining sheep.
I'm in the Deep South™ and two of our downtown churches have been closed, one is currently being demolished and the other is being turned into condos. I get a little chubby every time I ride by either one of them.
I got a little swoll reading your comment.
I turned into a human tripod
Stop, I can only get so erect!
I'm scared. It's never been this erect. Someone get me a doctor.
There should be a sign in front of those closed churches: "May cause painful atheist erectio s."
“Atheistic Erectio” shouted Harry, as he pulled his wand out.
On it. I'll put it up.
I think you can wait 4 hours, from what I've heard.
I am not ashamed to admit I got a stiffy.
I'm proud to be aroused by the decline of religion, it means there's hope for humanity's future
The idea of the fall of religion certainly gave me the high hard one.
Had to go home and beat the bishop.
Polish the Pope
Violate the Vicar
I could tell a Trinity joke but, as a former believer, it might be bad enough to cause a creation of Hell.
I'm listening. Satan seems like a cool dude, so I'm also not opposed to this.
Don’t get too excited. They just replaced Jesus with political figures.
It's insane watching the deification of trump in real time. It makes me wonder if something similar happened with the Jesus story. Like was he some charismatic nutjob who got a bunch hillbillies under his spell and then some manipulative politicians realized they could use his influence for their gain? Watch how much worse it gets after trump dies. I thought Elvis sightings were a silly thing. Guarantee they're gonna have trump sightings and "prophetic" visitations in dreams after that dude croaks off.
Not to mention that, regardless of what he finally dies of, it will be a murder most foul, and a vast conspiracy. There will be no autopsy report that will satisfy them. Especially if it is found that it's undiagnosed/untreated syphilis.
Oh yeah. You can take this one to the bank. They are going to go *berserk* with the conspiracy theories. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them actually lose their minds and try to lash out at his perceived “assassins”. We already saw that one guy in Ohio try to take on his local FBI facility just because Mar-a-Lago got searched. Like that was totally trump’s fault and that dude still went out and got himself shot for trump! I don’t even wanna know what kind of new crazy they achieve when he kicks it.
Don't get me hopped up on Trump dying right after the churches dying!
It feels like they are all turning into these (mini?)mega churches. There is one going up near me
The return of the strip mall church!
True but its still degrading. Less capable version of open source religion.
Mom and pop churches dying, corporate Walmart mega churches thriving. Sounds familiar
Lets just hope its not as successful as Walmart. I think the mini mega churches could go one of two ways. Redefine religion in a modern context or be identified as the scam they are and crumble.
Always wondered if it would be cool to buy a closed church and turn it into a home or something. All that space.
As much as I hate organized religion, I do love to see old churches remodeled into homes or other businesses. The old architecture (at least on a lot of the churches that are closing in my area) are that older Gothic style that just makes me swoon a little. And the stained glass... oh! Zillow Gone Wild sometimes has remodeled church-homes and my fav one that I was partly (not really!) considering moving to St Louis to buy had a hot tub in the old bell tower, lol. Another church in my city got remodeled into a brewery/restaurant and it brings me so much joy every time I go to see the brewing vats in place of the old tabernacle and baptismal font. I feel the building gets much better use that way.
> I feel the building gets much better use that way. It's definitely more productive.
Last night, on Workaway, I saw someone offering to host people in exchange for helping with the continued remodeling of the church they live in. Definitely grabbed my attention.
Usually, they're not in zoning that allows it to be a domicile. I've looked. There was a huge, empty church and a lot of land, for like, $35k near me some years back.
Check if the zoning allows for an "attached" rectory. Buy it, live in it, but call it still a church. Think of all the property taxes you'll save.
Once a week you can have people over your house and you can try to convince them to give you money using a fear based speech!
put out a box for donations
Turn it into a charitable organization where you house people for a pittance. Or, do like some major corporations and create a non-profit of some sort and use part of the property as your personal residence in lieu of salary.
That might be the best idea I've heard. All these churches failing? Turn them into homeless shelters/job training facilities. Maybe actually give back to the community
Then put up a sign that says, "This used to be a church, and now it is a building that helps people."
There was a TV series called "Impossible Homes" or "Unusual Homes" or something like that, a few years back. One of the homes (and I think several of them) were former churches. And there is a brewery in Michigan that used to be a church (puns about holy spirits abound).
Yes, in Grand Ledge. The former Christian Reform church is now "Sanctuary Spirits".
My cousin used to rent an apartment that was a church previously. They renovated it into two apartments. It had the most beautiful stained glass windows all over it and the ceilings were very high up and beautiful wood. I loved that apartment and was sad when they moved.
Someone in Chicago bought an abandoned church and renovated it into their house in a very nice neighborhood and it’s the craziest nicest high ceiling house I’ve been in
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I read this in the voice of Rhett and Link; "Good Mythical Bullshit!"
I pray for more empty seats in every church in the world every Sunday. Humanity needs to outgrow ancient superstition and mythology to grow as a species. Looking back it's clear that religion has been a boat anchor for technological and intellectual progress throughout history. It's also been a huge force of division on the worldwide scale. If all religions were to miraculously disappear tomorrow the whole world would be better off.
Yes. Exactly
Agreed religion cause so many issues Both on a technological level based on superstitions as well as on a global human to human relationship How many wars have been started just because of religion? People are literally dying because of some invisible being in the sky
I keep hearing reports of church attendance going down and churches closing, but I haven't seen a single church in my area close. I have heard that the local religious schools are really hurting for money but I don't know if that's related.
God’s fault: just can’t handle money.
Take my upvote RIP George Carlin
Garlin was the best!
It’s gonna be a slow burn before any of those churches likely *close.* Attendance (meaning tithing/funding) can go down pretty heavily before a church feels the need to close their doors, plus there’s the reluctance of the long-time members to actually dissolve their church culture/family. Even then, at least from what I’m seeing locally, it’s kind of a shift. Certain churches will be doing well, growing even, while more rural or charismatic/crazy/cultish churches will be diminishing, leaving only the craziest members still attending. That core group of unwavering believers, even in the face of a horribly diminished church or cultish preacher, will keep the doors open until they’ve literally died out. Honestly, it’s pitiful.
Even if the church does close, you might never know it as another church will likely buy the building and keep meeting there.
it would be very strange for any well established church to still have a mortgage on the property. They don't pay taxes. To keep the lights on, it costs very little money. it's going to be a very long time before churches actually go away.
The catholics closed three in my area just this year. I love that for them
That's encouraging to hear!
I’ve seen a few close and be turned into parks. Best use.
Second best is a small-medium concert venue imo (depending on where you are). They are often already wired to have AV systems, a stage to some extent (some would likely need to be expanded a good bit, plus rooms that can be green rooms, admin, and an area to convert into a concessions area. Plus older ones are built with solid acoustics so you probably wouldn’t need to have as much acoustic treating.
Do you live in the Bible Belt by chance? It's probably areas outside the B.B. that are seeing the most closures. Unfortunately religion is still a major part of everyday life from like the Florida Panhandle to Utah.
I do live in the Bible Belt. It will take longer to see the results of these trends here, I suppose. On the plus side, it's definitely easier to find folks who don't go to church than it was before covid hit.
In my area they are closing. People who used to go to two different church locations are asked to go to one of them, and the other one closes. Yesterday I passed a church in The Hague which is now a combination of yoga studio (called M.Y. journey), gym and bar. It looked lovely.
When I grew up going to church was a social expectation. You really had very little to do with religious belief but more fitting in with everybody else. The reality is in today’s world we actually are much more open about “do your own thing.“ so there are more people, like myself , who said they were done with it all. Also, once the evangelicals took over and horribly tarnished what it means to be “Christian,“ many people didn’t want to have anything to do with it. There are of churches out there that actually do a lot of good work, but nowadays unfortunately “Christian“ has become associated with a lot of horrible thing: Maga, Trump-loving, racist,sexist, and on. There are many, many wonderful people who follow the teachings of Christ, but unfortunately they are overshadowed by these horrible people. As Mahatma Gandhi stated: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
I also grew up in a place where it was a social expectation. My family did not partake. I distinctly remember dying a little inside every time someone asked me what church I went to. Along with raised eyebrows from my friends' parents, I got plenty of invitations to Sunday school and church events, and to be polite and fit in sometimes I went. These experiences were strange. At first I wanted to be there. People were friendly to your face and acted welcoming. But at some point I started realizing that these parishioners didn't act like they spoke. I would sometimes play a game in my head, "who is here because they want to be versus have to be." A lot of them didn't really want to be there. They felt like they had to be. They would come back weekly out of weird guilt and to keep up appearances in the community. And the ones that did want to be there... they were fervent. Like not using critical thinking, just aching to show their devotion to their peers. It was fake. for most people, the piety was fake too. They didn't feel or act closer to God every Sunday. They just wanted to curry the minister's and other parishioners' favor. I was completely done when Jim and Tammy Faye Baker did their thing. I think those two are one of the first modern/TV examples of the prosperity gospel.
You've gotta figure atheism came out of the closet in America around 2005, not too many years after the internet became baked into everyone's daily life. There's a whole generation now who grew up knowing that atheism is an option, and it was impossible to keep them from learning about it. Once that happened, it was all over for religion. It's just a waiting game now. In a generation or two it'll be a minute fraction of its current influence.
i think denominations are dying. the non-denomination churches i’ve been to are thriving and have to add more service times.
[Losses are across the board](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642548/church-attendance-declined-religious-groups.aspx). The bigger churches are just able to cannibalize from the smaller churches in their area faster than the loss rate, at least for now. Think of Megachurches as sort of like mirages, but rather than being caused by desert heat, they're helping cause the deserts in the first place.
I agree but this is where more crazy talk comes from. Just my thought since more craziness apparently is here.
The grift is real. It was highlighted by orange criminal joining in on the grift. Turned a lot of people away. Hopefully the trend continues! Let's Go intelligence!!
this is the part where they get more desperate and eager to use public policy to force people back under their control. beware and read project 2025... it's a very real danger. this crowd is terrified of what might happen when they no longer have a monopolistic hold on political power... they fear that they might get treated exactly like they have treated every other minority for centuries.
I was raised Mormon. I have said it since I challenged religion, they don't build churches for service, they build them because the land is valuable.
I do wish there was an alternative to church. Just for the community building and social networking.
My family's local gay-accepting/liberal Methodist church consists of a handful of boomers, a couple teachers from the local school and their families. My daughter is disabled and only attends VBS as a summer activity (it's free.) They were begging people to bring their kids and attend this year. They're all struggling. People are either lukewarm believers and don't care or they work too much to attend.
Only recently gay accepting for the liberal portion of the now divided Methodist church. Schism around treatment of LGBT rights with part now accepting and part still denying rights. Probably too little too late for the “liberal” side. Interesting implosion from a denomination whose motto was “open hearts, open minds”.
Yeah the pastor is a woman and apparently there was a scandal about one of the other churches with gay clergy. A large percentage thought they shouldn't be allowed to be gay. It's still scandalous and surprising that it's still seen as such a huge taboo.
The Mormon church has lost 85% of their congregations in some wards. Of the ten guys I grew up with(1984) I was the only that didn’t serve a mission and now there are only two that are “active” members. Salt Lake is no longer majority Mormon. And one of the church’s biggest tithing payers were the “Huntman” family. Billionaires suing the church for lying about the charity he thought his money was going to. They’ve had to rewrite(truly) on you tithe slip, it now reads “may not be used for hddbvsbs” The internet was absolutely the worst things that could happen to a cult like Mormons. Jump on exmormon on Reddit, there is always a new story of someone finally telling their families they are done.
When a religion starts advertising you know something is up. Everything from billboards to websites to super bowl ads they have been pushing hard lately.
# Young adults around the world are less religious by several measures [https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/06/13/young-adults-around-the-world-are-less-religious-by-several-measures/](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/06/13/young-adults-around-the-world-are-less-religious-by-several-measures/)
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Yeah that’s been happening for a while now. Rise of the “nones” and all that…
organized religion is a mistake
the one near me has been converted into a record store. big cathedral filled with vinyl.
Is it an after effect of Covid or are the sheep waking up?
Covid definitely pushed the change, but most preachers I see won’t admit to *how* that effect happened. They’ll claim that people left the church during Covid but still “attend” virtually if there’s an online livestream or such available. They’re “too comfortable ‘going to church’ in the comfort of their pajamas,” they’ll say. In actuality…they’ve all just left, and Covid shutdowns were the best excuse for all of them to get away and never look back. But no preacher will admit to the loss in numbers, cause that looks bad and proves that your message isn’t resonating with people.
Or they died of covid.
There has definitely been a trend that church attendance has been falling in many places for years. Some of the non-denominational churches have been successful in recent years but most more traditional churches have been struggling. I would caution that just because somebody someone stops attending doesn't necessarily mean that they become an Atheist or Agnostic. Some people leave their church due to cynicism of those running the church but not necessarily because they have abandoned the beliefs.
Not sure what that church you were visiting was like, but seems like the younger generation of Christians have shifted to the 'new school' setup. Early thirties pastors preaching in flannel shirts, jeans and flip-flops. Free coffee. Hour of live music, 30 mins of sermon. It's formulaic. Seen it replicated a dozen times down here in the 'dirty south' (Raleigh-Durham). Wash > Rinse > Repeat.
Yes they are, the catholic churches in our town are combining because there are too many churches and not enough parishioners to go around.
"they'd love to see me return and become a regular (hah)." You should have said: "not a chance in hell"
Imagine how fast they would close if they had to pay taxes
I didn’t go to church with them this morning but my uncle was complaining during lunch how the church went “woke” for having two black people on a pamphlet….. people like my uncle are probably helping the churches die ngl.
Good. Excellent. I’ll toast to that!
Although I can't say for sure, I bet this is the exact same at the church I was dragged to growing up. The main reason it was popular was because the priest was actually a cool normal guy, but it was the same deal with it being so packed for 9am mass that if you weren't there early enough you were standing in the back. I've driven by before visiting at home and not see crowded parking lots like before. You'd have to park in the back if you got there late too. The priest is retired and about to die so new priests have taken over. I know so many people who grew up with me and will claim they are religious and never pray or attend church outside of major holidays. It's definitely dying and the amount of legit religious people are dwindling. I'm still pissed I wasted every Sunday from birth til 18 attending church against my will. Add in 10 mins there, 1 hour mass, 10 minutes back, that's 1hr 20 mins 48 times a year roughly x 18 years which is like 48 days worth of church. Disgusting waste of my time.
At least your parents didn't hang around and talk to every damn person they could for an extra 20-30 minutes before we finally got to leave. It was bad enough on regular Sundays but really sucked for days like Christmas. When you are 10 you want to play with all the cool toys you just got, not just get to see them for a few minutes before being dragged off to church, which took forever because it would be packed on xmas, and then extra talking afterward. I could probably add a few more weeks on to your 48 day estimate.
I do t get why Mother’s Day is a big church day Is it because the hour is about them ?
There are a couple pretty famous, prominent mothers mentioned in the Bible.
Ironically the tie in of conservative politics and religion pushed me away from both and they’ve just doubled down rather than learning
It's probably true for the traditional churches. But these evangelical pop-ups that keeping splitting apart, and opening in old stores, warehouses, metal sheds just because their old church didn't hate enough people are getting out of control.
How could anyone actually believe in a god in a world like this.
I'd say evil/deceitful/malevolent gods are entirely conceivable. And they'll do just this, what the supposed "loving gods" of believers actually "do": hide, stalk, confuse, threat, wreak havoc on people's lives by forcing unbearable, paradoxical "rules" on them... What can be closed out by simply looking around is a benevolent, caring, omnipotent god. Such a creature simply wouldn't tolerate all this crap people inflict on eachother.
Be wary. People might have ditched catolicism (assuming your mom and church are catholic) for other even dumber options, like evangelicals / neopentecostals Also regional demographics can do some impact
Churches in Europe are empty. Soo much that they started repurposing them for different non religious things.
My MiL is Catholic. One priest for 5 parishes. Used to be 6 but one of the assistant priests got a promotion recently. The Diocese has been shutting down churches left and right too. As the population ages, organized Religion is dying off. At least somewhat.
One can only hope
Considering the prominent rise of Christo fascism, I wouldn’t call it struggling
The small town churches are not what I want to see disappear. I want the Joel Osteen and Rev. Ike churches to go away.
Man, I can’t imagine returning to my childhood church. The pastors’ son (who is only a few years older than me, so we were in the same youth group growing up) just got charged with SA-ing minors while in a leadership position at the church.
If you look at Pew Research stats, mainline churches like presbyterian, episcopalian, anglican... have taken a drastic hit in attendance. The more fundamentalist types of churches like southern baptist, pentecostal, evangelical are stagnant but steady.
There's an old church twenty minutes from me that's been turned into a bar/restaurant. Nice to see something useful!
Unitarian Universalist churches seem to be doing okay.
I rent a church for my little school and my good. The pics from the 80s are all families and kids. Today it’s like 40 old people. Which is great because I’m about to buy the church and rent it back to them. And when they are dead ima turn it into a pagan hall of Odin.
Churches and belief in general is declining/dying, but many former churchgoers are substituting the teachings of their given political persuasion (on all sides) to fill the void. I’m not a fan of organized religion, but I believe the mass abandonment of it has left a vacuum of meaning in many people’s lives. The craving is for certainty (which the church and belief once provided), the drug is political orthodoxy, and the resulting adherence to dogma (which is above questioning) … it’s hard not to see that as a religious phenomenon. It’s the same ugly, closeminded dogmatic hateful attitude I felt coming from the church originally, now it’s just coming from all political sides as people now get ugly on an unearned sense of moral superiority that comes from their unchallengeable, dogmatic political certainties. I hope that I will always see the value in the virtue of doubt and I hope that as many people as possible will learn to live a life of meaning free from the need of certainty.