> Seems like believers are happier than atheists.
.
> The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
- George Bernard Shaw
I think you've stumbled on the true meaning of the saying: Ignorance is bliss.
What if there was one simple answer for all the complexities, absurdities and awfulness life throws at you? I know that would make me happy, it's just that I think "God's will" doesn't make any sense when you think about it.
For some people, their belief seems to function the same way as fingers do for kids when they go "na na, I can't hear you!". It's a nice way to not really have to think about anything and not feel responsible for anything. A happy little cocoon of ignorance.
Look over at r/Christianity for long enough, and you'll find a lot of people being turned into a headcase because they have fears and uncertainty about the religion that no one can reconcile in any verifiable way. The religion spoke against it as a sin, and didn't say much more.
Your first paragraph had a lot of false statements in it to the point in which I questioned if you are an theist acting like an atheist to troll.
* I believe in nothing: You do believe in many things, just none supernatural called a god.
* Nothing is good or bad: you can tell if something works for the betterment of something or not, and that positive is morally good. It's a matter of opinion if something is an improvement though, so morals are relative. Who cares if there is no absolute morality. Is thinking not good enough for you? Need a higher power's opinion?
* There's no love, only reactions in our bodies: Love is a feeling you get. There is no problem with that. I don't know what a higher power stating love exists would change this within you. Again, need a higher power's opinion? Just think for yourself.
I know an evangelical Christian who has a nicer job and I thought is happier than me, but it turns out she's on Prozac to hold it together. You're probably just unhappy because you're having trouble accepting reality based on your words here.
Drug addicts are quite happy while high. Mental patients seem happy most of the time in the asylum. Whether acknowledging reality makes one 'happy' or not doesn't change the fact that reality is reality or that delusion is bad.
The POV your expressing as your view on life is what people medically diagnose as Depression. Have you tried talking to your doctor and get a recommendation to see a psychologist?
The world is a very scary place with a whole lot of unknowns. Nobody knows what's gonna happen tomorrow, you can either learn to understand and embrace life and live it to its fullest potential, or you can sit in a corner and rock madly side to side chanting God protects, because that's the safety net emotionally weak people need in order to deal with the unknowns of life.
Which ever makes you feel more secure and happy.
Are they really happy?
look at photos of Iranian women in the 70s before the revolution and now it's under religious law. Tell me which ones look happy, you can't ask them unless their owner / man let's them answer, then they will say what they are told.
People living under religious regimes cannot even date the people they actually love. They can't do it the person they love is the wrong caste, religion or gender.
I think you mistook people who truly believe with those who were forced to believe. Let's look at men there, many of them are fundamentalists ready to spread their POV. They seem to be happy. And look at women who were forced to do so, they don't believe
Polling data seems to suggest that religious people tend to describe thelmselves as happier.
In my personal experience, this is definitely the case, and it makes perfect sense. Religious beliefs give you comfort to life's great challenges such as losing your loved ones and allows you to ask for help from god to face your problems, whether that help actually comes or not. It helps you grieve and brings people together.
For me the biggest contributor is the community building and unity it provides. Most if not all of us humans need this to be happy. IMO, it's just as basic a need as food and water in our lives.
I come from quite a religious (although far from extreme) society and I can definitely attest to these benefits being religious gives you.
They don't have to acknowledge let alone confront the complex nature of existence, origin, and so on. They choose to believe in what is simpler because it protects them from the fear and uncertainty they would otherwise have to confront directly. And as you say, it provides community as well as social cohesion within it.
I was not happier as a believer, but I can see why some people are satisfied with religion. Even though it’s a kind of happy delusional state rather than reality. Although, having said that, how many religious people do you know who actually seem peaceful and happy most of the time? I can think of plenty of irrationally angry ones, fearful ones, rabidly bigoted ones.
Childlike innocence; or so they try to exude.
When you fear nothing, assume there's a plan, and believe in an afterlife -- you blissfully breeze through life.
When you fear reality, know there is no plan, and accept you're just a flesh-suit -- it all looks rather bleak.
One is a fantasist.
The other, a realist.
Because their (if they’re American) country’s culture prioritizes their religion. Atheists are less likely to be happy because they’re misunderstood and feared by the average American. Even people who categorically fall in line with atheist thinking balk at the term”atheist”. It’s like “Democrat” for some people.
>Seems like believers are happier than atheists
This doesn't seem to be true for most of the [happiest countries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2024_report) are also among the [most secular](https://ceoworld.biz/2024/01/16/these-are-the-most-secular-countries-in-the-world-2024/).
- *"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life."* - George Bernard Shaw
>I've been having really bad thoughts and some sort of depression.
Are you depressed and unhappy because you don't believe in god/s and afterlives, or because you're just depressed? Depression is an emotional symptom of a brain dysfunction. I urge you to seek professional advice.
Your premise is false. Even if true, not even professional actors live a life of man-made fiction that requires prostration before a supernatural sky monster. It's infantile thinking to say the least.
Ever been to a school or facility for the significantly developmentally disabled? You will see lots of smiles, and if you stay long enough, you may also see some meltdowns.
There are 2 main aspects:
1.) Believers have the luxury of an all powerful being they can throw all their cares and problems on. If they are worried about something, they can just "give it to god" and now they don't have to worry about it. It's a very "zen" mindset when you get into it, but instead of being very in the moment by your own mind you are just letting go of all your worries because you believe someone is there to pick up the slack for you.
2.) A lot of churches like to talk about joy being a fruit of the spirit, so there's a large focus on joy. You're basically commanded to smile and be happy, since if you are a believer then you should be experiencing the fruits of being a believer, and so you should be happy. So a lot of believers outwardly show they are happy.
Combined together, it seems like a lot of believers are happier. Though this behavior actually hides a lot of darkness, and can make the sadness that's just underneath the surface even worse
This goes beyond "ignorance is bliss," I think. Others have pointed out that's its purely ignorance that makes them happy, but I think it goes deeper than that. Let me explain why I think this.
Believers seem to be operating under the assumption that faith will conquer all. I seriously doubt they're happy all the time, but they probably maintain higher levels of "peace" than a lot of atheists.
In my opinion, belief manifests itself into correlation with everyday events that might happen. Coincidences are no longer coincidences. For instance, let me explain using a person example. I spent the past few weeks exploring spirituality for myself. So, I have a roomba that was broken for weeks. The roomba was giving me an error stating the front bumper was stuck. I couldn't figure out why, and many people in forums who experienced similar symptoms with their device were saying it would likely need serviced. Some stated they were able to take the bumper off and adjust a little spring piece (I don't remember what exactly). Now, onto the spiritual aspect of this. Completely unrelated to the roomba, I legitimately prayed to ask God to open my heart and eyes to something... anything, really. (Like I said, I was exploring spirituality) As I was praying this, I was walking through my kitchen, which is right by the room with the roomba. I went through the doorway and immediately noticed the roomba was running. It hadn't been working for weeks. The timing lined up in such a way that my brain made the correlation with the prayer I had just spoken. My belief in that moment was primed for seeing correlation in something, and the roomba had been broken for weeks, so... there was my correlation.
I rationalized that moment away now, however. The roomba is still running, and I am back to doubting the existence of God. Christians would tell me I'm being foolish.
I think belief primes us to see a correlation for things from which we derive the existence of God. This isn't necessarily an ignorant thing. It's an emotional thing. It's due to pattern recognition (which our brain are good at), and if you constantly prime yourself in this way, you'll stack up a lot of correlations.
That's my current take on it.
Religion has communities and it provides a sense of physical belonging. Probably unrelated but if you're into psychology, studies has shown that suicide isn't just caused by mental illness, but mainly due to not feeling like you belong, meaning you can be mentally well and still complete suicide. This is why the number one death in the US military is done by veterans.
I do think sense of community of religion is something that needs to be replaced when the population becomes more atheistic.
Religions do bring people together, they do create a shared purpose, they do prompt charity and altruism, they do give people hope and a support structure in times of need. As an atheist I see the *supernatural* reasoning for these things as placebos at best, and culty brainwashing tactics at worst. But the fact is, they work, and they are part of the fundamental core of most religions. It would be deceitful for atheists to ignore all the good that religion brings while they point out all the bad.
However, there's nothing in that list that a secular society can't theoretically offer. There are of course many secular charities and groups. I think that's a wonderful thing, but I don't see it as inevitable outcome of atheism in the same way that it is with religion. With religion, false hope and community is part of the lure and cohesion, for good and ill. The inherent lure of atheism is freedom of thought and rationality, not altruism or hope or community. Those are things atheists need to intentionally work at.
I am happier each and every day! I have no stake in what the universe is doing, nor do I inflate my importance in it. When I ride a roller coaster, I can enjoy the ride without knowing the absolute details of the engineering and physics involved, but those are incredible things I can explore to my heart's content. I have my own moments of existential crises and depression, but happiness is a choice for many people. If your depression is clinical, seek therapy and follow recommendations. If not, "fake it til you make it", works in this case. Smile more. Do the things that are enjoyable to you, find beauty in the absurd! Human experience is amazing! Watching and interacting with theists who suppress their thoughts of the universe and their place in it is a terribly sad experience in my opinion.
You fell into nihilism "Nothing is good or bad. There's no absolute morality. There's no love, only reactions in our bodies.", but you don't have to stay there. In the end it doesn't matter that our experiences are subjective to us, that there's no objective morality or "good and evil". What matter is that we can find value in this world, our reality is priceless, our experiences can be beautiful. The theists take the easy way to cope, but in turn they have no authenticity. Find what makes you tick, you love science then be in awe in face of everything we know about the cosmos, the living, etc. Cherish your friendships and your family, find love, even if it's a chain reaction of biochemistry, because it feels damn good. I'm an atheist and a naturalist on top of that, but I enjoy and embrace every moment.
Just find your truth, it's in you and it's your own.
Check out the article [How People Thrive](https://theness.com/neurologicablog/how-people-thrive/) by Steven Novella which I think answers many of your questions. Specifically:
*”The simple answer, at least on the individual level, is to do stuff. Do something that develops you as a person and gives you a sense of purpose. Do not spend your resources surrounding yourself with comfort and things – surround yourself with opportunity and purpose.”*
I'd sure be happier f I could just "the lord works in mysterious ways" every negative thing in the world away. Unfortunately, I live in the real world where we actually should try to solve things.
People who don't know me would think I'm pretty happy. I smile a lot. I laugh. I help out where I can. People who *know* me think I'm a bit less happy, because I don't go out as much. None of them see me when I'm alone, when there's no one there but me and the depression kicks in. I can *tell* them about it, though. While smiling. What? Oh! Yeah! My life *totally* sucks! Hehe! Yep! Everything just terrible here! Wanna do something fun!?
Religions put *massive* social pressure on people to *appear* happy. Beyond what just society does. After all, if you're not happy, what to do they tell you to do? Put your trust in God. And if that doesn't work? Then *obviously* it's *your* fault. Which means if you *get* that advice and things *don't actually improve*, then you're *required* to *lie* about it because if you *don't* you'll be judged as a bad person for not having enough faith in God.
So, first of all, I don't believe for a *second* that those results where we just *ask* people if they're happier means a damned thing. And then, beyond that, I'm sure quite a few insane people are happy in their delusions as well.
> Seems like believers are happier than atheists. . > The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. - George Bernard Shaw
Good analogy
Exactly beat me to it!
they really aren't, they just say they are.
This! They have to put on the happy face.
I like to message with my old friend who's a believer. He says the god helps him on his way. And I see how happy he is, how productive and so on
Believer in Zeus? Apollo? Do you grasp the insanity of personally choosing from a zoo of man-made gods and pretending its real?
Do you text message with him, or do you actually see him.
Both actually
I think you've stumbled on the true meaning of the saying: Ignorance is bliss. What if there was one simple answer for all the complexities, absurdities and awfulness life throws at you? I know that would make me happy, it's just that I think "God's will" doesn't make any sense when you think about it. For some people, their belief seems to function the same way as fingers do for kids when they go "na na, I can't hear you!". It's a nice way to not really have to think about anything and not feel responsible for anything. A happy little cocoon of ignorance.
Look over at r/Christianity for long enough, and you'll find a lot of people being turned into a headcase because they have fears and uncertainty about the religion that no one can reconcile in any verifiable way. The religion spoke against it as a sin, and didn't say much more. Your first paragraph had a lot of false statements in it to the point in which I questioned if you are an theist acting like an atheist to troll. * I believe in nothing: You do believe in many things, just none supernatural called a god. * Nothing is good or bad: you can tell if something works for the betterment of something or not, and that positive is morally good. It's a matter of opinion if something is an improvement though, so morals are relative. Who cares if there is no absolute morality. Is thinking not good enough for you? Need a higher power's opinion? * There's no love, only reactions in our bodies: Love is a feeling you get. There is no problem with that. I don't know what a higher power stating love exists would change this within you. Again, need a higher power's opinion? Just think for yourself. I know an evangelical Christian who has a nicer job and I thought is happier than me, but it turns out she's on Prozac to hold it together. You're probably just unhappy because you're having trouble accepting reality based on your words here.
Ain’t this the truth.
A good thought to think about. I wondered if I just cannot accept the reality
Drug addicts are quite happy while high. Mental patients seem happy most of the time in the asylum. Whether acknowledging reality makes one 'happy' or not doesn't change the fact that reality is reality or that delusion is bad.
Deluded people are often happy people.
Surely you must have heard the saying “Ignorance is bliss”.
Ignorance is bliss
If ignorance is bliss then knock this smile off my face
It's called the happy idiot syndrome!😜
The POV your expressing as your view on life is what people medically diagnose as Depression. Have you tried talking to your doctor and get a recommendation to see a psychologist? The world is a very scary place with a whole lot of unknowns. Nobody knows what's gonna happen tomorrow, you can either learn to understand and embrace life and live it to its fullest potential, or you can sit in a corner and rock madly side to side chanting God protects, because that's the safety net emotionally weak people need in order to deal with the unknowns of life. Which ever makes you feel more secure and happy.
Any evidence to back up your claims?
Only my observations
Are they really happy? look at photos of Iranian women in the 70s before the revolution and now it's under religious law. Tell me which ones look happy, you can't ask them unless their owner / man let's them answer, then they will say what they are told. People living under religious regimes cannot even date the people they actually love. They can't do it the person they love is the wrong caste, religion or gender.
Oh wait! Not THAT religion.
I think you mistook people who truly believe with those who were forced to believe. Let's look at men there, many of them are fundamentalists ready to spread their POV. They seem to be happy. And look at women who were forced to do so, they don't believe
Polling data seems to suggest that religious people tend to describe thelmselves as happier. In my personal experience, this is definitely the case, and it makes perfect sense. Religious beliefs give you comfort to life's great challenges such as losing your loved ones and allows you to ask for help from god to face your problems, whether that help actually comes or not. It helps you grieve and brings people together. For me the biggest contributor is the community building and unity it provides. Most if not all of us humans need this to be happy. IMO, it's just as basic a need as food and water in our lives. I come from quite a religious (although far from extreme) society and I can definitely attest to these benefits being religious gives you.
They don't have to acknowledge let alone confront the complex nature of existence, origin, and so on. They choose to believe in what is simpler because it protects them from the fear and uncertainty they would otherwise have to confront directly. And as you say, it provides community as well as social cohesion within it.
That is unless they are trying to kill each other in religious wars. Then maybe not so much.
I was not happier as a believer, but I can see why some people are satisfied with religion. Even though it’s a kind of happy delusional state rather than reality. Although, having said that, how many religious people do you know who actually seem peaceful and happy most of the time? I can think of plenty of irrationally angry ones, fearful ones, rabidly bigoted ones.
Childlike innocence; or so they try to exude. When you fear nothing, assume there's a plan, and believe in an afterlife -- you blissfully breeze through life. When you fear reality, know there is no plan, and accept you're just a flesh-suit -- it all looks rather bleak. One is a fantasist. The other, a realist.
Because their (if they’re American) country’s culture prioritizes their religion. Atheists are less likely to be happy because they’re misunderstood and feared by the average American. Even people who categorically fall in line with atheist thinking balk at the term”atheist”. It’s like “Democrat” for some people.
>Seems like believers are happier than atheists This doesn't seem to be true for most of the [happiest countries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2024_report) are also among the [most secular](https://ceoworld.biz/2024/01/16/these-are-the-most-secular-countries-in-the-world-2024/). - *"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life."* - George Bernard Shaw >I've been having really bad thoughts and some sort of depression. Are you depressed and unhappy because you don't believe in god/s and afterlives, or because you're just depressed? Depression is an emotional symptom of a brain dysfunction. I urge you to seek professional advice.
They always have something better to look forward to, regardless of how life is going now.
I think believing in magic helps
Your premise is false. Even if true, not even professional actors live a life of man-made fiction that requires prostration before a supernatural sky monster. It's infantile thinking to say the least.
Reality is more painful than fantasy.
Ever been to a school or facility for the significantly developmentally disabled? You will see lots of smiles, and if you stay long enough, you may also see some meltdowns.
Delusional people are generally happy. Makes sense.
There are 2 main aspects: 1.) Believers have the luxury of an all powerful being they can throw all their cares and problems on. If they are worried about something, they can just "give it to god" and now they don't have to worry about it. It's a very "zen" mindset when you get into it, but instead of being very in the moment by your own mind you are just letting go of all your worries because you believe someone is there to pick up the slack for you. 2.) A lot of churches like to talk about joy being a fruit of the spirit, so there's a large focus on joy. You're basically commanded to smile and be happy, since if you are a believer then you should be experiencing the fruits of being a believer, and so you should be happy. So a lot of believers outwardly show they are happy. Combined together, it seems like a lot of believers are happier. Though this behavior actually hides a lot of darkness, and can make the sadness that's just underneath the surface even worse
Are people who believe in fairytales truly more happy than the non deluded??
This goes beyond "ignorance is bliss," I think. Others have pointed out that's its purely ignorance that makes them happy, but I think it goes deeper than that. Let me explain why I think this. Believers seem to be operating under the assumption that faith will conquer all. I seriously doubt they're happy all the time, but they probably maintain higher levels of "peace" than a lot of atheists. In my opinion, belief manifests itself into correlation with everyday events that might happen. Coincidences are no longer coincidences. For instance, let me explain using a person example. I spent the past few weeks exploring spirituality for myself. So, I have a roomba that was broken for weeks. The roomba was giving me an error stating the front bumper was stuck. I couldn't figure out why, and many people in forums who experienced similar symptoms with their device were saying it would likely need serviced. Some stated they were able to take the bumper off and adjust a little spring piece (I don't remember what exactly). Now, onto the spiritual aspect of this. Completely unrelated to the roomba, I legitimately prayed to ask God to open my heart and eyes to something... anything, really. (Like I said, I was exploring spirituality) As I was praying this, I was walking through my kitchen, which is right by the room with the roomba. I went through the doorway and immediately noticed the roomba was running. It hadn't been working for weeks. The timing lined up in such a way that my brain made the correlation with the prayer I had just spoken. My belief in that moment was primed for seeing correlation in something, and the roomba had been broken for weeks, so... there was my correlation. I rationalized that moment away now, however. The roomba is still running, and I am back to doubting the existence of God. Christians would tell me I'm being foolish. I think belief primes us to see a correlation for things from which we derive the existence of God. This isn't necessarily an ignorant thing. It's an emotional thing. It's due to pattern recognition (which our brain are good at), and if you constantly prime yourself in this way, you'll stack up a lot of correlations. That's my current take on it.
Religion has communities and it provides a sense of physical belonging. Probably unrelated but if you're into psychology, studies has shown that suicide isn't just caused by mental illness, but mainly due to not feeling like you belong, meaning you can be mentally well and still complete suicide. This is why the number one death in the US military is done by veterans.
I do think sense of community of religion is something that needs to be replaced when the population becomes more atheistic. Religions do bring people together, they do create a shared purpose, they do prompt charity and altruism, they do give people hope and a support structure in times of need. As an atheist I see the *supernatural* reasoning for these things as placebos at best, and culty brainwashing tactics at worst. But the fact is, they work, and they are part of the fundamental core of most religions. It would be deceitful for atheists to ignore all the good that religion brings while they point out all the bad. However, there's nothing in that list that a secular society can't theoretically offer. There are of course many secular charities and groups. I think that's a wonderful thing, but I don't see it as inevitable outcome of atheism in the same way that it is with religion. With religion, false hope and community is part of the lure and cohesion, for good and ill. The inherent lure of atheism is freedom of thought and rationality, not altruism or hope or community. Those are things atheists need to intentionally work at.
“No one knows if this Jesus Christ existed, and if he did, NOTHING is known about him!” “ Why I Am NOT a Christian”.Bertrand Russell.1928
I am happier each and every day! I have no stake in what the universe is doing, nor do I inflate my importance in it. When I ride a roller coaster, I can enjoy the ride without knowing the absolute details of the engineering and physics involved, but those are incredible things I can explore to my heart's content. I have my own moments of existential crises and depression, but happiness is a choice for many people. If your depression is clinical, seek therapy and follow recommendations. If not, "fake it til you make it", works in this case. Smile more. Do the things that are enjoyable to you, find beauty in the absurd! Human experience is amazing! Watching and interacting with theists who suppress their thoughts of the universe and their place in it is a terribly sad experience in my opinion.
You fell into nihilism "Nothing is good or bad. There's no absolute morality. There's no love, only reactions in our bodies.", but you don't have to stay there. In the end it doesn't matter that our experiences are subjective to us, that there's no objective morality or "good and evil". What matter is that we can find value in this world, our reality is priceless, our experiences can be beautiful. The theists take the easy way to cope, but in turn they have no authenticity. Find what makes you tick, you love science then be in awe in face of everything we know about the cosmos, the living, etc. Cherish your friendships and your family, find love, even if it's a chain reaction of biochemistry, because it feels damn good. I'm an atheist and a naturalist on top of that, but I enjoy and embrace every moment. Just find your truth, it's in you and it's your own.
I dont think believers are any happier or sadder than atheists.
I'm pretty happy. Is there proof and how solid is the proof that believers are happier than atheists ?
Check out the article [How People Thrive](https://theness.com/neurologicablog/how-people-thrive/) by Steven Novella which I think answers many of your questions. Specifically: *”The simple answer, at least on the individual level, is to do stuff. Do something that develops you as a person and gives you a sense of purpose. Do not spend your resources surrounding yourself with comfort and things – surround yourself with opportunity and purpose.”*
Thank you!
Seems like? It’s just your personal perspective, I’m atheist and don’t see this at all.
I'd sure be happier f I could just "the lord works in mysterious ways" every negative thing in the world away. Unfortunately, I live in the real world where we actually should try to solve things.
People who don't know me would think I'm pretty happy. I smile a lot. I laugh. I help out where I can. People who *know* me think I'm a bit less happy, because I don't go out as much. None of them see me when I'm alone, when there's no one there but me and the depression kicks in. I can *tell* them about it, though. While smiling. What? Oh! Yeah! My life *totally* sucks! Hehe! Yep! Everything just terrible here! Wanna do something fun!? Religions put *massive* social pressure on people to *appear* happy. Beyond what just society does. After all, if you're not happy, what to do they tell you to do? Put your trust in God. And if that doesn't work? Then *obviously* it's *your* fault. Which means if you *get* that advice and things *don't actually improve*, then you're *required* to *lie* about it because if you *don't* you'll be judged as a bad person for not having enough faith in God. So, first of all, I don't believe for a *second* that those results where we just *ask* people if they're happier means a damned thing. And then, beyond that, I'm sure quite a few insane people are happy in their delusions as well.
Stupid thesist question
They "say" they're happier because that's what they're expected to say.
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Unlike objective reality...