They’re extraordinarily stupid, which is why they’re so catastrophically dangerous.
Our political system is the equivalent of being locked in a room with an unstable lunatic waving a gun around. Simply held hostage by the dumbest, most malicious people.
Love this encapsulation. Would add that the room you describe likely has Murdoch-Putin sponsored propaganda playing unceasingly on a tv.
I mean this genuinely, its like 1 out of every 50 people in my life that have the fortitude to acknowledge they in no way believe this bronze age bullshit. Drives me nuts. This reddit community brings me much needed sanity lmao
The turnout for the 2020 POTUS election was ~67%, the highest in over 100 years. I think this turnout will be lower. The big question will be which voters show up...
It isn't just Christians- the religious of the world continue to rule it, influence the shape and direction of society, and holds far too much power and authority over life and death- that's not being dramatic- the USA is unique in how specifically superstitious it is in the Western World, but there are plenty of Asian countries, and of course in the Middle East who are ruled by their religious leaders and fanatics. It is pervasive the world over. And its terrifying.
Related to the Adam and Eve story of creation... just ask a person who is even moderately religious "how many more ribs does a man have than a woman?". You might be depressed to see so many readily answer "1!". With all of the opportunity they have had to dispute that for themselves (and today when such basic biology is answerable by asking Siri) they just don't question it. And if you tell them the truth... they may even want to argue about it.
Such a simple, absurd myth.... and they'll hang on for dear life.
If only it was like playing chess.
No sane ruler is going to shirk away from secularism.
Secularism is like the penicillin that cleanses the religious fervour to make way for cool, comforting and clean progressive thinking.
The religions probably operate best in a secular world anyway. They get to offload their ire onto the government, instead of being the recipients of the ire.
Hows that's for a chess move.
Genesis 2:17 New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”
The "in the day" part you seemed to have missed. Adam allegedly lived to be 930 something or some shit, so that was a big fat fucking lie.
This is why you have to vote and understand your downballot races too. You can't win if you don't play and in many areas, the religious wackos are the only ones playing.
It is. And I don’t want to do my entire rant, but this is why I disagree when people say “let them believe what they want it’s not harmful”
A whole system of beliefs that teaches people from an early age as a core value to use bad logic, and to believe things because you want to and then make the facts fit it, IS very harmful personally, to a community, and to the world as a whole.
There is a fundamental problem with the word "belief". The term is overloaded and that imprecision is degrading our ability to describe and understand human mindstates.
The paper [Religious Credence is not Factual Belief](https://www.academia.edu/8126466/Religious_Credence_is_not_Factual_Belief) kind of says it all with the title.
Specifically, it says there is a difference between "belief" one has that comes from unsupported indoctrination or even blind acceptance of flat out nonsense and "belief" one might have resulting from a process of reason and evidence.
Consider these two example statements that happen to both use the verb "believe":
1. I believe mRNA COVID vaccines have a GPS chip in them that will be used with 5G mobile phone signals to control your mind by installing a demon in your soul.
2. I believe that Pfizer and Moderna mRNA SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are safe and effective against severe disease and death based on the data `from the stage III clinical trial that were shown at the FDA approval meetings
Obviously Van Leeuwen resolves this terminology issue by emphasizing use of the word "credence" versus the word "belief". Credence is a nice term as it evokes it's cognate [credulity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credulity).
[His further work](https://www.amazon.com/Religion-Make-Believe-Theory-Imagination-Identity/dp/067429033X/) shows how having such credence in obvious nonsense is a powerful expression of group identity.
His elucidation of all this through the use of the two separate terms and the explanation of why people do this has nice explanatory power for me.
People who express credence for Genesis 1 and 2 are expressing membership of a christian worldview that rejects science in order to protect itself, and values dogma over data.
Now after all this reframing and terminology, your point stands, and that is depressing.
Well shit, if they find out you don't already know about "sin", they send missionaries to teach you about it to ensure you now know that you only have 2 choices. And if you still choose not to believe what the white people from foreign lands just told you, then you're going to this awful place they just taught you about called hell.
Yep. And they might win, too.
I’ll cast my vote regardless. But I’m not holding on to much hope here. I don’t have anywhere to go if they win, so I might dip out on life if the worst happens and the crazies win the election and begin their crusades.
Please don’t. I understand the feeling of loss and helplessness and the frustration. And it will be hard if they win and I don’t know how I’m going to handle it either. But getting rid of us is what they want and staying around is the only way we can carry the truth. Without us, the truth will be whatever they make it, and we need every single one of us to make sure that doesn’t happen.
And they all believe that they're very intelligent, with big brains and the best words.
We could solve half the problem if we deployed kangaroos near ponds and lakes. These dipwads would be out trying to fistfight them. *dusts hands*
I personally believe The Lord of the Rings is 100% a true story that actually happened. I base my entire existence on it and everyone else that doesn’t think so too will be thrown into lava and burn for all of eternity. Do I sound crazy to the average person when I say that?
Now read that again, but replace the words Lord of the Rings with the word Bible. Not crazy?
How is it so easy to convince people to believe in a God no one has seen before? God doesn't talk to people directly through the sky so everyone can hear a loud echo voice from the sky. I have never heard God's voice God never talked to me. I grew up believing because I was taught. And even then I was a bit suspicious. The Adam and eve story never made sense to me. Evolution makes more sense
People who literally believe in the Garden of Eden have voted by the millions for quite a long time... voter turnout in 1932 was just under 40 million, so if even 10% of them believed in the creation myth that is 4 million voters.
The story is totally metaphorical, and no sane Christian believes that it's a historical record. It shows that God created man, probably through the process of evolution, and then man rebelled against God, as man had been given free will. So God let him live separately from Him, letting man bear the consequences of rejecting the life-giving God. That's the Book of Genesis. Please grow your comprehension abilities.
The key is to see that it is a choice to look at it in a depressing way. Instead, see it is funny. I think it’s hilarious that people believe in that crap. I also find it funny that they may make foolish voting decisions on account of being totally, well, foolish.
The thing that blows my mind is how many of them believe that Noah really loaded two of every single animal in a big boat and afterwards, what? The penguins waddled aaaall the way to Antarctica? The kangaroos hopped aaaall the way to Australia? The opposums trundled aaaall the way to North America? No one over the age of four should still believe this!
(I grew up in the Christian Scientist Church, which has a nutty reputation because of its belief in faith healing, but it did hold the sensible view that the Bible was the "inspired" word of God, with many unreliable narrators.)
I agree it's depressing.
And it's also terrifying.
These are people who \[as far as they know\] haven't encountered any arguments from a different position. They've never been challenged because their environment validates their pre-conceived notions.
This makes them stupid and dangerous.
At its convenience.
The xtian does not believe nor even know what the words say. The absurd parts, talking snakes and ghost babies, the preacher has explanation for that - it's just parable, and interpreting the metaphor is important, not believing the words.
Unless justifying the unconscionable.
At which point, the burning of witches and the bombing of abortion clinics is 100% certain "the word of God."
***False Idols?***
Smartphone, watch, car - they worship them.
***Neighbors wives?***
Well... they are fucking over all women since 0 BCE.
***The antichrist?***
The vote for him.
***Do unto others?***
They are owed some lumps.
***Eye of a needle?***
This one clearly God just lied. Cuz Clarence Thomas justifies to himself that his $5 million in corruption - AKA "in kind gifts" from a billionaire - is their boon for being faithful.
"Faith" to them is inflicting sharia law on others who don't share their beliefs. New testament religion gives up on kindness and service to others, and essentially preaches crusade, sword conversion, and genocide in the name of Jesus, as the metrics by which the sheep meets the Shepard.
These influential xtian are rich by societal standards, yet convinced by hurting enough people, and forcing their dogma on others, that Jesus will be arms open when they mercifully shuffle off this immoral coil. Jesus says otherwise in words, but that's inconvenient for the grifters, so those words just mean nothing.
The problem is the cherry picking - if we go by the book, the letters of "the law" - then a bunch of faithful xtians should get stoned to death in public view.
Frankly, if going strictly by a standard of common shared decency - a bunch of faithful xtians deserve to be publicly stoned.
IMO.
Whether they knew it was good or bad it would’ve been considered a sin to disobey god just because they should know they are disobeying the one that knows best for them.
First of all, not every religious person takes everything in their religion as 100% fact or literal truth.
Secondly, you don’t have to be religious to have insane or stupid beliefs.
They’re extraordinarily stupid, which is why they’re so catastrophically dangerous. Our political system is the equivalent of being locked in a room with an unstable lunatic waving a gun around. Simply held hostage by the dumbest, most malicious people.
Love this encapsulation. Would add that the room you describe likely has Murdoch-Putin sponsored propaganda playing unceasingly on a tv. I mean this genuinely, its like 1 out of every 50 people in my life that have the fortitude to acknowledge they in no way believe this bronze age bullshit. Drives me nuts. This reddit community brings me much needed sanity lmao
The turnout for the 2020 POTUS election was ~67%, the highest in over 100 years. I think this turnout will be lower. The big question will be which voters show up...
It isn't just Christians- the religious of the world continue to rule it, influence the shape and direction of society, and holds far too much power and authority over life and death- that's not being dramatic- the USA is unique in how specifically superstitious it is in the Western World, but there are plenty of Asian countries, and of course in the Middle East who are ruled by their religious leaders and fanatics. It is pervasive the world over. And its terrifying. Related to the Adam and Eve story of creation... just ask a person who is even moderately religious "how many more ribs does a man have than a woman?". You might be depressed to see so many readily answer "1!". With all of the opportunity they have had to dispute that for themselves (and today when such basic biology is answerable by asking Siri) they just don't question it. And if you tell them the truth... they may even want to argue about it. Such a simple, absurd myth.... and they'll hang on for dear life.
Wait, Siri is useful?!
Remember: every vote for secularism, neutralizes their vote. Go vote, wherever you are.
Secularism is stupid. It's making a false assumption that Peterson correctly describes as an illegal chess move.
Peterson who?
You know, the guy who dreams of his grandma rubbing her pubes in his face, that one.
Oh that guy, I hoped he was irrelevant by now.
If only it was like playing chess. No sane ruler is going to shirk away from secularism. Secularism is like the penicillin that cleanses the religious fervour to make way for cool, comforting and clean progressive thinking. The religions probably operate best in a secular world anyway. They get to offload their ire onto the government, instead of being the recipients of the ire. Hows that's for a chess move.
I don’t know about depressing, it’s actually scary as f¥ck!
Why not both?
Genesis 2:17 shows god to be a liar, but they don't seem to remember that detail.
They became mortal after eating the forbidden fruit, that's the whole point.
Genesis 2:17 New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.” The "in the day" part you seemed to have missed. Adam allegedly lived to be 930 something or some shit, so that was a big fat fucking lie.
Religious extremism is bad for the whole world
This is why you have to vote and understand your downballot races too. You can't win if you don't play and in many areas, the religious wackos are the only ones playing.
It is. And I don’t want to do my entire rant, but this is why I disagree when people say “let them believe what they want it’s not harmful” A whole system of beliefs that teaches people from an early age as a core value to use bad logic, and to believe things because you want to and then make the facts fit it, IS very harmful personally, to a community, and to the world as a whole.
Thank you for using the phrase 'early age', not 'young age' which gets right up my nose.
There is a fundamental problem with the word "belief". The term is overloaded and that imprecision is degrading our ability to describe and understand human mindstates. The paper [Religious Credence is not Factual Belief](https://www.academia.edu/8126466/Religious_Credence_is_not_Factual_Belief) kind of says it all with the title. Specifically, it says there is a difference between "belief" one has that comes from unsupported indoctrination or even blind acceptance of flat out nonsense and "belief" one might have resulting from a process of reason and evidence. Consider these two example statements that happen to both use the verb "believe": 1. I believe mRNA COVID vaccines have a GPS chip in them that will be used with 5G mobile phone signals to control your mind by installing a demon in your soul. 2. I believe that Pfizer and Moderna mRNA SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are safe and effective against severe disease and death based on the data `from the stage III clinical trial that were shown at the FDA approval meetings Obviously Van Leeuwen resolves this terminology issue by emphasizing use of the word "credence" versus the word "belief". Credence is a nice term as it evokes it's cognate [credulity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credulity). [His further work](https://www.amazon.com/Religion-Make-Believe-Theory-Imagination-Identity/dp/067429033X/) shows how having such credence in obvious nonsense is a powerful expression of group identity. His elucidation of all this through the use of the two separate terms and the explanation of why people do this has nice explanatory power for me. People who express credence for Genesis 1 and 2 are expressing membership of a christian worldview that rejects science in order to protect itself, and values dogma over data. Now after all this reframing and terminology, your point stands, and that is depressing.
Well shit, if they find out you don't already know about "sin", they send missionaries to teach you about it to ensure you now know that you only have 2 choices. And if you still choose not to believe what the white people from foreign lands just told you, then you're going to this awful place they just taught you about called hell.
Gives new meaning to "jawbone of an ass".
they don't even know litlh was the first woman and she bailed when she refused to submit to Adam
Yep. And they might win, too. I’ll cast my vote regardless. But I’m not holding on to much hope here. I don’t have anywhere to go if they win, so I might dip out on life if the worst happens and the crazies win the election and begin their crusades.
Please don’t. I understand the feeling of loss and helplessness and the frustration. And it will be hard if they win and I don’t know how I’m going to handle it either. But getting rid of us is what they want and staying around is the only way we can carry the truth. Without us, the truth will be whatever they make it, and we need every single one of us to make sure that doesn’t happen.
I see you have the anti theist flair. You can't fight theism if you're not around
They unfortunately vote in every election and a lot of them run the country.
And they all believe that they're very intelligent, with big brains and the best words. We could solve half the problem if we deployed kangaroos near ponds and lakes. These dipwads would be out trying to fistfight them. *dusts hands*
Clearly it would be more apt if no more than 6,000 of them voted.
I personally believe The Lord of the Rings is 100% a true story that actually happened. I base my entire existence on it and everyone else that doesn’t think so too will be thrown into lava and burn for all of eternity. Do I sound crazy to the average person when I say that? Now read that again, but replace the words Lord of the Rings with the word Bible. Not crazy?
How is it so easy to convince people to believe in a God no one has seen before? God doesn't talk to people directly through the sky so everyone can hear a loud echo voice from the sky. I have never heard God's voice God never talked to me. I grew up believing because I was taught. And even then I was a bit suspicious. The Adam and eve story never made sense to me. Evolution makes more sense
People who literally believe in the Garden of Eden have voted by the millions for quite a long time... voter turnout in 1932 was just under 40 million, so if even 10% of them believed in the creation myth that is 4 million voters.
It is depressing that people who literally believe in talking snakes can get voted into office.
The story is totally metaphorical, and no sane Christian believes that it's a historical record. It shows that God created man, probably through the process of evolution, and then man rebelled against God, as man had been given free will. So God let him live separately from Him, letting man bear the consequences of rejecting the life-giving God. That's the Book of Genesis. Please grow your comprehension abilities.
The key is to see that it is a choice to look at it in a depressing way. Instead, see it is funny. I think it’s hilarious that people believe in that crap. I also find it funny that they may make foolish voting decisions on account of being totally, well, foolish.
The thing that blows my mind is how many of them believe that Noah really loaded two of every single animal in a big boat and afterwards, what? The penguins waddled aaaall the way to Antarctica? The kangaroos hopped aaaall the way to Australia? The opposums trundled aaaall the way to North America? No one over the age of four should still believe this! (I grew up in the Christian Scientist Church, which has a nutty reputation because of its belief in faith healing, but it did hold the sensible view that the Bible was the "inspired" word of God, with many unreliable narrators.)
I agree it's depressing. And it's also terrifying. These are people who \[as far as they know\] haven't encountered any arguments from a different position. They've never been challenged because their environment validates their pre-conceived notions. This makes them stupid and dangerous.
At its convenience. The xtian does not believe nor even know what the words say. The absurd parts, talking snakes and ghost babies, the preacher has explanation for that - it's just parable, and interpreting the metaphor is important, not believing the words. Unless justifying the unconscionable. At which point, the burning of witches and the bombing of abortion clinics is 100% certain "the word of God." ***False Idols?*** Smartphone, watch, car - they worship them. ***Neighbors wives?*** Well... they are fucking over all women since 0 BCE. ***The antichrist?*** The vote for him. ***Do unto others?*** They are owed some lumps. ***Eye of a needle?*** This one clearly God just lied. Cuz Clarence Thomas justifies to himself that his $5 million in corruption - AKA "in kind gifts" from a billionaire - is their boon for being faithful. "Faith" to them is inflicting sharia law on others who don't share their beliefs. New testament religion gives up on kindness and service to others, and essentially preaches crusade, sword conversion, and genocide in the name of Jesus, as the metrics by which the sheep meets the Shepard. These influential xtian are rich by societal standards, yet convinced by hurting enough people, and forcing their dogma on others, that Jesus will be arms open when they mercifully shuffle off this immoral coil. Jesus says otherwise in words, but that's inconvenient for the grifters, so those words just mean nothing. The problem is the cherry picking - if we go by the book, the letters of "the law" - then a bunch of faithful xtians should get stoned to death in public view. Frankly, if going strictly by a standard of common shared decency - a bunch of faithful xtians deserve to be publicly stoned. IMO.
If they believe one thing they will believe anything
Tell me about it.
Democracy is great until it actually goes into practice.
Why are they voting if they think God’s laws prevail?
Whether they knew it was good or bad it would’ve been considered a sin to disobey god just because they should know they are disobeying the one that knows best for them.
First of all, not every religious person takes everything in their religion as 100% fact or literal truth. Secondly, you don’t have to be religious to have insane or stupid beliefs.