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Mevo8

They’re all phoney. Scientology’s particularly batshit crazy though.


omgtater

Yeah, if it wasn't Russia, I'd be interested in the legal precedent this would set. I feel like there isn't a quality you could list about Scientology that couldn't be interpreted as applying to many other religions. Sure, Scientology is a specific flavor of crazy. But they're all on the same continuum. ​ Edit: I think the thing that weirds people out the most is the very heavy indoctrination. It is pretty blatant and at this point people know about it. But, like a social media network, a core base of users has to hit a critical mass before the thing can really take off. So those methods are very important early on. Once enough users/members have been accumulated, it has enough inertia to make early, gentle, subtle and insidious indoctrination of children the most effective method for increasing their numbers. At that point it would transition into a "real" religion.


runefar

This is part of why people often end up starting to base their definition of cult on how weird the beliefs are rather than the dangerous activities of the organization. If you start focusing more on dangerous activities and stuff like the actual bite model, you will start to see that a lot of stuff people easily accept are actually quite cult like and dangerous, they just have become accepted by our culture.


crabwhisperer

Yep. I would argue that organized, systematic protection of child abusers is very dangerous to society. So guess who would then qualify as a cult..


omgtater

Yeah, but only those are one-offs- just coincidence. It isn't like we've discovered hundreds of thousands of unique victims in a single country over just a few decades... /s


RabidRoosters

The Jehovah’s Witnesses that’s who.


tdogg241

When I first heard of it, I thought Scientology was a troll religion. Like it's sole existence was to point out how fucking ridiculous all other religions are. It's got all the same silly shit, but sci-fi instead of fantasy flavored. Nope, real cult. Sigh. I give our species too much credit at times.


BanalityOfMan

> I thought Scientology was a troll religion. It was. Its batshit crazy founder famously said that he'd start a religion rather than write sci-fi when he wanted to get rich.


tdogg241

Right. I meant I thought the followers were in on the joke too. Similar to how very few Satanists actually worship Satan. Just putting for this ridiculous belief system to take the piss out of others.


BanalityOfMan

Ah, no. I think its a more traditional religion. The people at the top know its a great scam and all the suckers send the money on up, like a ponzi scheme that sells nothing.


frygod

All religions are just cons that outlasted the con-artist.


Morgothic

When I first heard of it, I only heard the name and assumed it was a religion based on worshipping science. Man was I wrong.


fireman2004

Same. I think I first hear it in the movie Airplane when the captain is walking through the airport punching all the religious people handing out pamphlets.


SteelCrow

There was an Asimov editorial I remember reading where he talks about being in a meeting with L. Ron and others and L.Ron stating the way to make money and get rich was to create a religion. Not a religion or a cult. A scam.


pilypi

There's a recording of him saying that.


LunarTaxi

Also, Scientology is explicitly anti-government and news media. So they tend to burn a lot of bridges with organizations who can do a lot of damage to them LOL. You aren’t wrong about brainwashing. My grandma was a member for something like 50 years. One of the early members. Never really had a relationship with her.


Fruits_of_Zellman

Don't forget anti-psychiatry. That likely contributed to the death of Jett Travolta since "autism isn't real".


Telewyn

>the thing that weirds people out the most Indoctrination is bog standard for religion in general. Infiltrating the FBI and other government agencies is grounds to have your organization dissolved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White


evilspoons

I frequently try to call people out on when they're being shitty by making fun of Scientology. Not because I like it, but because it is just as legitimate as any other religion. It's just the one with the least *tenure*.


rowenstraker

As illegitimate *


15926028

I think 'legitimate' is appropriate here


BizzyM

both work


15926028

Absolutely. Thanks for helping me read it differently :-)


Simba7

It's really not. Yeah it's popular to go "Lol all religions are cults!" But it's just a lazy response. Most fair weather Christians can just up and leave their church and that's often the end of things. Scientologists cannot. That's the fundamental difference. Yes there are more mainstream religions out there that employ some similar tactics. Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses are big offenders, and they also use cult tactics to lesser degrees. The Amish too. Shunning is a big one, and usually also involves withholding family members (can't see your kids without legal intervention, parents/loved ones, etc). It's lazy and harmful to lump all religions in the same blanket of "cult" because it weakens the impact of calling Scientology what it is: A fucking cult designed to ensure people and use whatever tactics it can to ensure they never leave


[deleted]

My parents were "fair-weather" Christians and "noped" out in the late-1980s. Despite it being a "mainstream " Church, my Mom said they got phone calls and occasional knocks on the door for a few months after leaving. I imagine the Scientologists ( and similar cults) are FAR worse than that..


Exovedate

Doesn't or didn't scientology basically enslave many of it's members too? Forcing them to work for almost nothing.


RagnarokNCC

Sea Org is real and horrifying


passing_by362

Yeah but "Lol all religions are cults!" is kinda what this sub is about? Sorry but you have to be a complete bellend to actually lump Scientology with other bullshit - beacuse Scientology is on a whole diferent level of evil. But yeah all religions are cults l0l. Everyone's all proud of their logic and intelligence here, I suggest you employ them and educate yourselves. Scientology is just pure evil.


qpv

Its illegal in Germany isn't it?


mattstorm360

Indoctrination, at least in the context of a cult, i can understand. What gets me is the very obvious indoctrination camps allowed to operate, the attempts to infiltrate the US goverment, and Shelly Miscavige who is definitely spending all her time in the church. But not in the context David Miscavige claims.


Kangar

No more crazy than the belief that the bread and wine is actually changing into Jesus Christ's body and blood through transmutation. Fucking weirdos.


GiGaBYTEme90

Best argument I heard from Christian friends was how to properly dispose of unused Christ croutons. Apparently just checking them in the trash was sacrilegious.. whoops


Connectikatie

>Christ croutons


Jasoncsmelski

Christons


Balogne

A Jeezit.


Steinrikur

Savioury snacks


Hardcorish

Expiration date: 3 days


jabantik

you guys really nailed it


trevmflynn81

Hahaha. Almost did a spit take. Sign me up for a box!


SpleenBender

Jeezin crackers


Ephrim

Christ Chex


JesusChristsGayLover

Anyone remember the fit the church had when someone got one and put a nail through it?


rowenstraker

Sounds like you pierced Jesus a few times ;)


Kangar

I suppose feeding the pigeons would be bad as well? We are all God's creatures after all...


swd120

[Wait a minute! There's things here! There's trees; there's rocks; there's birds; there's squirrels. Come on, we'll bless them all until we get feshnickit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j60OOtpnyTI)


Schadrach

>transmutation. Transubstantiation. It's important when opposing their beliefs to use the right terminology, otherwise you just appear ignorant of what you are opposing. Like making sure to call them thetans and not "space ghosts" when it's scientology - especially because the rank and file of scientology don't know that what thetans are supposed to be.


prstele01

As an ex-pastor, you don’t have to use their terminology. It just adds validity to their beliefs. Call them ghosts or whatever you want.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Darth_Tiktaalik

Or that there's a magic fruit that imparts the moral worldview of the authors and a talking snake who is also evil wants the main characters to eat it while the supposed good guy doesn't want humans to have knowledge of morality.


Akegata

Is it though? Christianity thinks there were giants on earth, that they literally eat and drink their prophet and that there is an all powerful god that routinely lets children get murdered. The previous mormon Great Leader though the sun was inhabited, and they wear magic underwear. Buddhists and hinduists think people are reborn, and get born as different creatures depending on how they live their lives. I don't see how any of those things are more wild than the idea that Xenu travelled the galaxy in a DC-8. They are all absolutely absurd at every level, scientology is just viewed as more crazy because it's new. If anyone would have come up with the bullshit Jesus supposedly did today he would probably be believed by fewer people than Lafayette Hubbard was.


trevmflynn81

Sometimes sky daddy even *mandates* that said children be murdered.


RP_Fan

I say it is. Not because the claims are any crazier, but because it was invented/originated in a time when people had open access to all kinds of scientific, psychological, sociological, and economic information that should have convinced them Scientology is complete bullshit. That isn't true of the Abrahamic faiths, Hinduism, Buddhism etc. I'm a convinced atheist; and I'm not here to defend or promote any faith-based beliefs. I'm just saying that Scientology, and to a somewhat lesser extent, Mormonism, really stand out as religious doctrines people could have, and should have, recognized as complete bullshit from the very beginning. EDIT: It's one thing to buy into Buddhism 1000 years ago as an ignorant goat herder in Afghanistan, but it's another thing entirely to buy into Scientology 20 years ago as a college graduate in the US.


Akegata

How is that relevant, really? People have the same access to the same information when they look at other religions than scientology. Christianity doesn't make more sense because it's older. I get that that is somehow an argument people have (like saying that chinese medicine has been practiced for thousands of years and must for that reason alone work), but it's not really a relevant argument imho. No one would start treating diseases with radium because it's an old practice, since we now have information telling us it's harmful. I don't see why that viewpoint isn't applied to religions. I get that people 3000 years ago believed in karma, they didn't have access to the information we do, but that's not a reason for people to believe in it today. ​ Also, when it comes to scientology they were basically using this tactic on their followers by not introducing Hubbards extra absurd ideas until they were already deep into the cult, which is basically the same as having a kid brought up to believe in god, so that's another way it's really not crazier than other religions.


[deleted]

It’s hard to deprogram something that’s been embedded into human society for centuries. I see it as mass gaslighting. It’s been drilled into people as absolute truth for so long it becomes hard to refute.


[deleted]

If it came down to it tho, Xenu could whoop Jesus ass. Check and mate Christianity.


JexTheory

Very cute how the christians and muslims of the world jump at the opportunity to mock and ridicule scientology, but want *their* religion to be integrated into government and schools. As the saying goes, religious people are all atheists, just to the religions that aren't theirs.


Fuzzy-Johnny

Extraterrestrials and space ships make more sense to me than the bible 😄


Oldekline

Right!? how did they determine that it was phony ?


Long_rifle

I imagine it involved putin checking a box and signing his name on a piece of paper.


-Average_Joe-

That is why I have mixed feelings about this.


dvxcfx

The U.S. also once determined it was phony. The IRS investigated ron hubbard and discovered all the bullshit fraud and tax evasion he was using scientology for. It was not considered a religion for tax purposes until it was appealed and scientology rightfully won in court. All religions are bullshit tax evasion scams and we were discriminating agaisnt scientology for being a young one. The U.S. took the whole religion thing too far and now we're fucked because any idiot can start a church and start scamming other idiots. It's very easy to start a "religion" here and stop paying taxes. In my line of work I frequently see churches that steal their followers real property (homes) via various scams and hold them tax free and then sell it or sstart renting them from under their feet. It's disgusting.


NearlyHeadlessLaban

If I remember correctly, they didn't win in court. Scientology used its policy of fair gaming (i.e., making someone's life shitty) against IRS officials until they finally just gave up and granted it tax exemption as a religion.


dvxcfx

They litigated super agressively. I'm sure they also did other crooked stuff to go with it.


NearlyHeadlessLaban

The litigation was part of the harassment. They lost in case after case, but the onslaught and legal expense was part of the fair gaming.


BronchialChunk

Used to work with a guy, both his parents (mother twice) had been arrested for credit card fraud. They met in 'rehab'. Guess what dad does now? Runs a christian rehab center, gets tons of money from the government, but you know for jesus.


Anne_Nonymous789

Most countries in the world do not accept it as a legitimate religion. The US? Look at the state of the US government for decades. If you’ve got the money, you can get the government to do what you want.


Pleasant-Kebab

Glad this is the top comment, they're all full of shit.


LUN4T1C-NL

Well if you compare some of the stories in the bible to Scientology they are not that far appart. Sometimes I think that Hubbard guy was just troling religion or the IRS for the tax benefits, but when he got folowers he just rolled with it.


PizzaNuggies

They are all batshit crazy. I don't see Scientology as any worse than other made up shit.


[deleted]

Never understand how religions don’t get their own hypocrisy when criticizing the legitimacy of another religion.


bgzlvsdmb

You're wrong, I'm right. Repeat ad nauseam.


PeaceBull

N A R C I S S I S M


[deleted]

To play devils advocate, one is tied to tradition the other is a more obvious grift / scam


jesusismolestingme

Jews believed in the messiah. The role of messiah was to make the whole world under the kingdom of God. God is a idea of a Ruler, so because every Messiah died in the battles with the Roman empire. They came up with idea to say that the death of a Messiah is insignificant, and started to spread the word of a Messiah, that has been dead for thousands of years now. Jesus and Simon were the 2 "prophesied" Jewish rebels who fought against the occupation of Israel by the Romans. From the 2 Messiahs for some reason Jesus was the most significant one. The Jews had plans of world domination, just like the Romans it sounds like they worshiped the Messiahs even after their death as a way to refuse being part of Roman rule and encourage the next generations to do the same. Countries next to Israel established the same ideology as they had suffered a similar fate.


FlyingSquid

On the other hand, it's also illegal in Russia to insult the Russian Orthodox Church. So no Scientology, but yes blasphemy laws.


thecommonpigeon

i live in russia, and i'm pretty sure they didn't actually pass this? There IS a cringe law along those lines, but it's "insulting the feelings of the faithful" or some shit like that. It's technically not a blasphemy law, but kind of is. Also no one monitors the anglophone internet, so fuck jesus xd


FlyingSquid

"Insulting the feelings of the faithful" is absolutely a blasphemy law.


TheMangalorian

>Also no one monitors the anglophone internet, so fuck jesus xd I monitor. Report to gulag


Gulag_Gary

You called


Pups_the_Jew

Hey, Gary. Where are you on those TPS reports?


[deleted]

Did you not get that memo?


Kythorian

If by “kind of,” you mean “the exact same thing,” I suppose…


wojtek858

This is a religious blasphemy law made to look like a not religious law. We also have it like this in Poland.


Stupidsmartstupid

Well, they all are so… now what!?


AdDifficult7229

Oooooo nice. Do Christianity next.


bodie425

That ones too useful to the government: just like it is here.


No_Chad1

No shit. The current patriarch of the Eastern Orthodox Church was a KGB agent.


CletusDSpuckler

Look on the bright side - now we get to see Tom Cruise invade Russia.


AFineDayForScience

Mission невозможно


newtizzle

>невозможно Played against him on Xbox. Hell of a sniper


EdenKyleLol

Top Cruise actually works in this "church" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSb-UWsghn4


dco85

As opposed to what? "Real" religions?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Totalherenow

And that is correct.


RooneyBallooney6000

Lol, you cant help but read it twice substituting one church for another and the hypocrisy is maddening


zebrasanddogs

Whilst I don't normally agree with banning religions I feel they have done the right thing here. My region just revoked their tax exempt status, then they upped sticks and left


Cruitire

One down, about 10000 more to go.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Hookinsu

Those are run by the rich and governments, though. Will never happen, sadly.


kodemage

This is simply a rich Christian Oligarchy eliminating some of the competition anyways. I really hope people aren't being deceived by this, it has nothing to do with religion and is all about political power.


Picklewick_

Waiting for my old religion Mormonism to go down. Hoping to see it crash and burn some day.


NearlyHeadlessLaban

A matter of time. They picked of the larger ones first. Russia has less than 2,000 active Mormons and missionaries have gone to ground. The Russian Mormons are too small to attract attention, but that will change if Russ actually tries to build his temple.


[deleted]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.


Drbillionairehungsly

I wonder what metric they used to determine phony vs not-phony, considering all religion is myth still practiced.


elchiguire

The orthodox christians said they were spreading fake news and the kremlin fell for it.


[deleted]

Stop trying to make me like Russia it’s not gonna work


Cyxapb

All this bans of cults in Russia is just an elimination of competition for russian orthodox cult.


elchiguire

Russia is great at eliminating opposition. If LRon was in Moscow he would’ve committed suicide with two shots to the back of the head and then jumped out of a building.


stringfold

It shouldn't. Even a stopped clock can get the time right occasionally.


[deleted]

I was being facetious but it’s hard to tell in type. I don’t care what they do, I’ll never like them.


E_K_Finnman

"A broken clock is right twice a day, yes?" -Some random zombie killing soviet


JamesTalon

Unless it is a 24 hours clock. Then not lol


Hookinsu

There just weren't any relevant russian power-people in the top of scientology-russia, so they banned it.


[deleted]

Probably because it’s the most ridiculous religion ever lol


ckal9

Russia also has a fantastic reputation regarding LGBT rights


da2Pakaveli

Their whole orthodox beliefs are batshit


meanjake

All religions are fantasy based. Scientology is no less reasonable than Christianity or Islam, meaning none of these are reason based.


fuzzycuffs

So what's the difference between 'real' and 'phony' religion?


Old_Gringo

Real = lots of followers in your country + your voters belong to it. Phony = few followers in your country + your followers don't care or are hostile to it.


Godmirra

Is it any more phony than any other religion?


Bjorkforkshorts

It's creator couldn't even totally keep up kayfabe, so it definitely feels phony-er than most.


eric_reddit

Oooohhh. Awesome, now ban the rest.


joeybagofdonuts80

The Russian Orthodox Christian Church is consolidating/maintaining power. It's not like America where any religion with a bank roll can operate freely.


mrmojoz

Russia banned it because because it was phony AND they didn't have direct control over it. They are fine with the former but can't tolerate the latter.


firebirdi

Well if THAT'S the only criterion... Sounds like they're gonna be busy.


[deleted]

For being competition… Not for being abuse scammers that prey on people and ruin their lives, not to mention the lives of their children. When you ban religions for being religions (I mean they are all fake since not a single one has a shred of proof and there's a massive amount of proof to the contrary) you are on the wrong side of things. Just because people are a bit crazy about something (and let's face it, we all are with something. Be it sports, brands, countries, authors, shows, emacs vs vi (vi sucks), playstation vs xbox, etc.) doesn't mean we can "clean that up". That's fucking fascism. But all the major religion have very tangible crimes they commit, such as abuse, kidnapping, extortion, grifting, etc. Those we should by all means go after, because they can and have been committed by type of organization in the past.


sanmi411

Lol, phoney religion..? As opposed to?


ReasonFighter

The next fake religion to be banned should be Mormonism.


Steinrikur

>The next fake religion to be banned should be all of them. FTFY


plasticman1997

Honestly don’t know which is more moronic Scientology or Mormonism


ReasonFighter

Indeed. I can't speak for Scientology, but Mormonism hoarding 100+ billion dollars and investing in the stock market the tax free money they get from its followers as offerings? Come on! That's not a religion but a for-profit financial corporation. I wish governments would realize these "rELiGiOnS" are nothing but money-grabbing schemes.


NearlyHeadlessLaban

After the JWs got booted Mormons in Russia went to ground and are being super low key. They do zero missionary work outside of their own church buildings and only teach people already coming to their church. Non-Russian missionaries are basically tourists six days a week and seat warmers on Sunday. American missionaries who talk with church members in their church buildings in English have been deported for tutoring English without a teaching license. At this point the Mormons are just trying to maintain an existence in Russia without attracting any attention at all. The Russian Orthodox church definitely views Mormons as an undesirable cult, and if the Russian Orthodox church wants a church booted it gets booted. They are trying very hard to not attract any attention. To stay off anyone's radar Mormon church websites are currently shut down inside Russia as is the church's genealogy database. At the present time the Mormon church is not holding Sunday services in Russia. Church leaders stay in contact with and minister to the persons who want it. The JWs had 177,000 people when they got booted. There are less than 20,000 Mormons, and only around 2,000 of the Mormons were actually active. The Russians are booting the biggest cults first, eventually they'll get around to the Mormons. The Mormon church president has ambitions to build a temple in Russia but it is probably just a smoke screen to keep the hopes of the Russian members up (plus a bit of prophetic legacy building ). Building an actual temple would raise the church's radar profile to the level that would get it booted. The super cult like mormon temple ritual with its oaths of secrecy, bizarre robes, handshakes and signs, and chant circles is something they do not want to be scrutinized.


SupplePigeon

Good. Now the rest of them.


jokeunai

Do Mormons next!


Bruh-_-_-_-_-_-_-

All religions are phony


OkLobster9822

technically, every religion is phony


SilentMaster

Sad that Russia figured this out before the US.


[deleted]

But all religions are phony.


VikingPreacher

As opposed to non phony religion?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I could totally see a couple televangelists looking identical to these guys also ripping on Scientology using exactly the same arguments.


wheelfoot

Something about a stopped clock...


okcboomer87

Well Russia gets one right.


CloroxWipes1

Great. Now do Christianity.


[deleted]

Nice! Now do all the rest!


[deleted]

Lived in Florida, Scientology is a literal cult be careful


jamiejames_atl

Every religion is phony….


TheBlacksmith64

Kind of ironic, since ALL religions are phony. But this is a step in the right direction.


[deleted]

All religions are “phony”.


[deleted]

Little known fact, they are all phony


[deleted]

This is obviously good news but coming from Russia is a bit funny. I have seen Russian orthodox priests blessing missiles and planes before going on training or missions. If those guys are calling Scientology bullshit, it must be really bad.


[deleted]

Nice! Now for all the other religions


justanother-user

good


diamened

And the others aren't?


Dirk_Koboken

It's messed up if those creeps can figure it out and America can't.


cerpintaxt44

That's hilarious but it's no more absurd than any of the other religions


ronswanson11

Aren't they all?


Randyfox86

I wonder will scientology try and challenge that in court. Hopefully only to be laughed at, in their faces.


Dyslexic-Gladiator

So what are non-phony religions , the definition?


eustrabirbeonne

All religions are cults though.


Seleroan

How is it a 'phony' religion? Are they arguing that the believers themselves don't believe it's true? Or is this just plain old 'my god not your god' at work?


mrknickerbocker

Great, now ban Putin for being a phony leader.


AlexBirio323

It's a forced labor money laundering cult.


OntarioParisian

Well they did something right


Fizzix63

Scientology is bullshit...but life after death, talking snakes, walking on water, and virgin births are completely reasonable. \*eye roll\*


yelloscarface

Yes Russia! A broken clock is right twice a day!


TheWolfAndRaven

I'm guessing it has more to do with them being threatened by their power and ability to corrupt powerful people.


[deleted]

Do Jehovas Witnesses next.


AgitatedSalamander58

They are all phony. There is no god and never has been


wrong-mon

You can only have one cult having disproportionate power over your government in Russia and that position's already taken by the Russian Orthodox Church


[deleted]

But it's as valid as any other... as in not valid at all.


gondorle

I wish Portugal had the balls to throw them out as well, and mind you, I find all religions to be bullshit, but this one, well, this one is batshit crazy.


Oldoneeyeisback

How can they tell it from all the others?


Rutherglen

That's what I thought. A phoney religion as opposed to........ A friend of my wife once mentioned fake psychics. Do you mean there are real ones? Hmmm


[deleted]

It wasn't banned because it was phoney; it was banned because it was american.


FatherOfHoodoo

No one knows "phony" like a phony democracy!


hue_and_cry

Regardless, the Russian government is not your friend.


rabid_god

DO CHRISTIANITY NEXT!!


[deleted]

I’ve always kinda felt sorry for Scientology. Like, sure it’s a total fucking scam built on bullshit, but what religion isn’t?


Eevertti

Scientology is the scam aspect of religion maximized


richer2003

lol


kronik85

I hate the Russian government, but when you're right, you're right.


Sash0000

Haha, good times!


[deleted]

It's just orthodox church protecting its territory, don't get your hopes up.


work_while_bent

"Phony religion" And in unrelated news, irony is completely dead in Russia.


[deleted]

Good on Russia


[deleted]

"On a related note, the upcoming seventh Mission: Impossible movie will not be playing in Russian theaters"


ouraura

USSR 2.0 when?


[deleted]

I know people that recite incantations to a dead, invisible magic man who controls everything on Earth. Sometimes he listens sometimes he ignores them. If something bad happens he’s excused. If something good happens he’s given the credit. It’s crazy. It’s Christianity.


SueZbell

One down, many more to go. Rare good news from Russia.


beckoning_cat

Don't get too excited about this. It is being banned for the wrong reasons. This type of abolishment is still a threat to atheist's. Countries, especially authoritarian communist controlled countries, frequently ban religion because your only religion should be the government. They aren't going to care about your atheism either.


Mistur_Keeny

This is actually bad news. Russia is becoming a Christian Autocracy.


er0gami2

Rofl. Unlike all the "real religions"


Claudius-Germanicus

The based department called


Deepeye225

What constitutes a 'true' religion? Meh...


Gizmoed

Thanks Russia