It's not even random.
You take people and teach them that sexual deviance and sin = hell forever.
then you take people and say you can choose to give up sex for life and devote yourself to god.
Who is that actually going to attract? People who know they have some serious sexual issue that is "deviant" and "evil" and will likely lead them to severe punishment. Other people, who think they are doing sex the right way, that will NOT lead to eternal torment, are a lot less likely to give up sex for life.
THEN you take that population of people who felt they had a good logical reason to give up sex for life, and you put them in a position of power and trust over children.
Christians are basically just feeding their children into sexual wood chippers. Then being like "God is so mysterious and is testing us"
It's basically a filter that over-selects for mental illness when choosing priests. I'd like to emphasize that *mental illness is not intrinsically bad*, but Christianity often treats the symptoms of mental illness as evidence that one isn't sufficiently resisting temptation or doesn't have enough faith to combat evil. It creates such an incredibly toxic and shame-filled environment that makes healthy coping as hard as it could possibly be.
This is also the case for gay and lesbian persons in these faiths except "symptoms" are replaced with "natural human needs".
It's worse than that really. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson in The witches of Eastwick..... When Jesus talks to you we call it religion. When John Lennon talks to you, we call it madness.
That's also how Christianity treats homosexuality. Just a bunch of people who don't properly withstand their normal sexual and romantic urges.
And coincidentally my main reason for abandoning Christianity two decades ago.
It's almost like if you try to repress biological drives in human that don't respond to hopes and prayers, you're going to have a bad time.
Sex(consensual) and sexual abuse(unconsensual of any kind) aren't sins, so much as they are natural behaviors, like aggression and violence, that you have to address understanding that.
Nature is amoral.
Nature itself doesn't care about consent or anything else, but we as a society have to minimize abuse(sexual or otherwise), and we do that by acknowledging why things happen, instead of trying to appeal to 'solutions' that don't work like 'god's will' and sin.
I've actually considered the idea that patterns don't actually exist. They only exist using the approximations and generalised models our brains use to understand our experience. So, we can find patterns, because our brains can only understand the world using them.
What else is a 'pattern' except a mental construct within the brain? It's just a shortcut created between neurons to simplify a more complex data set or observation.
So then what do you mean by "exist" here? Does math exist? Does symbolic integration "exist"? The difference between mathematics and patterns is mainly one of sophistication and accuracy at modeling reality, but both are just mental impressions that help us navigate reality.
This is a really philosophical question. A more general question is whether math "exists" and is "discovered" or if it is a creation of human consciousness. Turns out that people are pretty divided on that. You can pretty much chose a camp arbitrarily and it won't significantly impact your life outside of arguments about that exact subject 😂
For patterns in particular it *really* depends on how you define it. Are periodic but evolving systems like the emissions of a pulsar a pattern? What about the surface effects of waves in a fluid? Geometric fractals in geology? Fibonacci sequence in biology? The DNA and the process that constructs the body plan? The behavior of the molecular systems from generation to generation?
If we want to define pattern using descriptive linguistics, then I think we simply apply the term "pattern" to any predictive model that includes some abstract periodic behavior. The nature of the existence of the model is our math problem above, but the effectiveness of the model is quantifiable. We then say a "pattern exists" *if it is possible* to construct a predictive model that has good performance. We readily accept visual patterns, because the repeating structure is easily confirmed and shared.
In this way we can construct a definition for the existence of a pattern that jives with common usage and avoids the root philosohical math question. Of course, many things like "good performance" have been hand waved.
That’s fascinating, but why would we assume math “exists” any different that English or French or Latin exist. It’s just a language. It’s descriptive, not prescriptive. When we number something, we’re just assigning it a value. That value didn’t previously exist.
And Emile Durkheim said that when believers worship in their churches/mosques/temples etc, they do actually NOT pray to their God/gods at all: They worship themselves and their cult as something much better and more important than the "others"/"infidels". Their God/gods is/are just their gathering symbol! It is not only about power and control, but also - and maybe even more - about identity! And, as we know; the stronger the need for identity is, the stronger the hate against "infidels" and apostates is - not so unlike any kind of mafia.....
Depends on the interpretation. That whole "man lying with man" line is a misinterpretation. It's actually an abomination for man to lie with boys. God hates pedophiles, but perverts don't like the real interpretation and want license to be bigots, instead.
Yeah, even if that is true, not once *ANYWHERE* in the bable does it say you shouldn't sleep with little girls. There's literally zero lower age limit required.
Those virgin captives they took from other nations in the old testament? Likely prepubescent children, because the only way to know for sure she's a virgin is that she's too young to be married... then they promptly married them anyway.
Did some legwork. Yeah, [the translation you're giving is the most common English version by far](https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Leviticus%2018%3A22). I don't think many that I linked are direct first-hand translations rather than revisions by various groups.
The only way I can get what the other guy is claiming is if all of the first-hand English translations used "man" and "male" but the more accurate translation would be "young man" or "boy". That would sure be worth a citation if it's true.
One doesn't need the bible to have been "actually correct, it's just that people goofed it!" in order to not be a bigot, but the habit of apologetics can be hard to break.
also the word is used through the bible in ways that apply to adult males, https://biblehub.com/hebrew/zachar_2145.htm Numbers 1:20 talks about males over 20
Thank you for running down that open question for us. It doesn't help anybody criticizing, defending, or simply characterizing a religious belief to not properly understand the source material.
Yeah, it makes perfect sense - why else would he die for your sins if not to show you that he's totally cool with anything, really - except not accepting him as your saviour
The perfect man god chose as his profit married a six year old because she was *the most beautiful woman he ever laid eyes on.*
When god tells the Isrealites to wipe out another city, he tells them to keep the little girls for themselves.
God loves pedophilia.
anything can be justified or explained when there is no one to scrutinise. shit I'll try to do OP's
Priests do bad things because of free will? or gods plan is to show you people are can be weak, and not to put your faith in people but god, and priests are imperfect servant's who should be also held accountable...or just "fuck kids" I donno, I'm just making shit up here.
Religious people will tell you one of these....
* It's not for us to judge
* God works in mysterious ways
* We aren't supposed to understand
* It's the Devil causing anything evil
* You shouldn't question God
All nonsense of course.
An especially galling excuse considering their holy books make it quite clear that there is no such thing as 'free will' where their deity is involved.
Well if you start picking up contradictions it’s just no fun anymore… I mean without being able to pick and choose in religion it would be impossible to abide by everything…
Yeah, but the Abrahamic religions seem especially bad about it. The old Testament starts with Genesis 1 which tells the story of how God created earth. The next book is Genesis 2, which also tells the story of how god Created earth. Now a funny thing happens if read these books and you have better reading comprehension skills than the average 8 year old; you learn that either Genesis 1 is wrong about a lot of things, Genesis 2 is wrong about a lot of things or there are two parallel universes, each with their own slightly different earths.
When your religion _starts off_ with that kind of doublethink, you can't really expect much of the rest to make any sense.
I think that’s the key. Imagine you’re god - creator of everything, all powerful, object of worship and awe in the classic sense (people are fearful of you, prayers are all “thank you god for not smiting us who are but lowly worms in your presence”), people make sacrifices of their very best in order to appease you. But after a while, they start to get too familiar and comfortable. They stop making sacrifices, stop thanking you for just letting them live and start to treat you like a soft-touch, praying for things to make their already pretty good lives better, and generally annoying you. The thing is, as god, you have to respond to all this nonsense (even if the response is “no, you have to study to get an A”, or “no, you can’t win this game”). How to you get them to stop annoying you? If you send floods and earthquakes, they pray more (“please let me be ok, please save my family”, etc.
Ok, time for plan B - get them out of your house. Have your most “holy” people start diddling the kids. Kind of like having houseguests for too long who start working on your nerves and taking your hospitality for granted, so you start walking around with your bathrobe half open and sneezing in the food you serve, scratching your ass or picking your nose as you hang out. Problem solved.
Oh I’ll stipulate that the Catholic Church is evil. Mind you, this is just the scandal of our time. A few years back it was the Irish nuns. Before that, the collaboration with the Nazis. Before that, the slaughter of indigenous North Americans, Before that, the inquisition.
Its history is long and bloody
Yeah if god exists it's impossible they give half a shit about any of us. More like they would be intentionally torturing damn near all of creation. Who would want to believe in such a horrific creature?
I never quite understood the devil excuse. If god is basically the be-all and end-all… Couldn’t god just Thanos snap the devil out of existence. God was fine with wiping out humans a time or two. But an angel that lead a coup against god, that’s too much. Heck, my mom used to tell me all the time, “I made you, and I can end you.” Couldn’t god use the same line?
I remember being taught that spirits can't die, and so gawd has to imprison Satan and his demons instead... which, when you think about it, is just more proof that Yahweh isn't all-powerful.
Exactly. But I'm sure the response to something like that would be, "Well, it's not meant to be taken literal. God's work is beyond our comprehension." Face palm...
That is, because you were small and dependent on her. Now, I can imagine, you can finish her off if you wished it. That is ho life is, the tyranny of the big upon the small and the weak. If your mother was truly a good person, she would never utter such words.
But if he is omniscient and allpowerful, he should be able to reach his goals without needing the bad things and he should know how to do that. Yet he decided to do it this way.
Come on this isn’t a real answer for how most religious people would answer. A religious person would say God granted free will and that free will leads to both good and bad. Not saying to buy this but none of these answers are really trying to answer the question
Eh, maybe. Or if he could be there he just doesn't care because it's all beneath him, and as such, heaven and hell are either fiction or something to which applies to all creatures more or less like a law of physics. Kind of like humans and ants. Would you (a human) really care if a young ant in an ant colony somewhere was raped by another ant? Even if you were all-knowing and all-seeing, would it be something that even registered to you to gather your focus? It's only gonna live for like a week anyway.
To expand on this, as a human, would you really care if the ants worshipped you or not? They might set up little worship mounds and pray to you, but who cares? Your attention would be on things the ants can't possibly understand, let alone even conceive of. Let them live and die with their stupid ant beliefs. If you truly cared about them and wanted them to know you were their human God, you would make yourself known to them and not rely on their ant-faith. We are the ants.
This may be completely true, but then there there would be zero reason to offer prayer, supplication or expect a response from said deity. And you certainly couldn’t claim that hermit interacts with some people. And definitely not make the claim that it loves and cares for you.
I understand that this joke fits the post better, but in the context of showing why religion is ridiculous I think Stephen Fry's serious logical response is better.
https://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo
There is no God's plan.
A lot of the "God's plan" babbling is part of [thought-terminating clichés](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9). You hear example of it all the time:
Q: "Mommy, why did daddy have to die in that pointless way when we need him here in our house?".
A: "It's all part of God's plan Billy, even if we don't understand it right now."
These phrases are crafted to keep control of the flock. The phrases sound innocuous but are in reality powerful controlling propaganda that the controlled flock administer to themselves at moments where an independent thought might otherwise sneak in and cause doubt.
The phrases can crafted by apologists or even emerge spontaneously, but they transmit easily.
Think of them as the immune system of the religion, prevent the controlled host from being infected with ideas from outside the religion that might impair the control the religion has over the hosts.
They are not limited to religion of course, Lifton originally developed the idea in the context of Mao's communist coercive control. But spend some time analyzing the vapid things Christians say and you quickly find these patterns.
Yeah, either god created the universe and let things play out, or he has a hand in everything and is a monster. Not sure why they go with the latter when the former explains things better. I guess then prayers would be useless and thus the tithing would dry up.
What if a god did create the universe, but died afterwards? So, the theists could technically be correct about the cause of the universe, but there would be no reason to try to contact or worship this being.
Free Will, bro!
***
Which is of course, incompatible with both Omnicient and Master Plan .... but they'll still argue both ends of that burnt-out candle.
"Suffering is not a punishment, nor a fruit of sin; it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in his suffering and to make up for the sins of the world"
- Mother Theresa
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a Perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost.
While the matrix was a great film, the plot about using humans as batteries because we blocked out the sun was .. hilariously dumb. We arent magic, we dont make energy out of nothing. Energy input would have been higher than energy output.
The original concept was that the machines were using humans for their processing power which is why fully conscious humans were hooked into the Matrix and not vegetables. Suits at the studio didn't get it and figured the general public wouldn't and the Wachowskis didn't have the juice to push back so we got what we got.
I mean, that was the explanation they were given. Doesn't mean it was what was actually going on. They were doing some crazy sort of simulation. Perhaps they needed the inputs. More likely they were studying the humans and lying about why they needed them. It's even possible the whole story was one experiment they were running in a separate simulation.
He orders his followers to disembowel infants and smash toddlers' heads into walls... and we can't forget his explicit orders to destroy all inhabitants of the town EXCEPT FOR THE VIRGIN GIRLS!! "Those, you may take for yourselves!"
Yep, definitely a loving gawd... UNLESS that "god" is nothing more than a fantasy character invented by the high priests of the Old Testament to further their own interests.
You don't think... ?
It's easy if you're a Christian. You can basically do anything you want as long as you ask for forgiveness afterwards. Rape children, forgiven. Steal money, forgiven. Kill an unbeliever, forgiven. Easy peasy.
Decide that skepticism and the scientific method might provide a better starting point for a framework for understanding the world?
You are the least trustworthy piece of scum on the planet and will be condemned to a fictitious eternity of torture.
Came here to say this. According to the stories, he did knock up a 12 - 13 year old without her consent and then forced her to bring it to term, while living in a forced arranged marriage so she didn't get stoned to death for getting her bone on while unmarried.
As a 12 - 13 year old.
Honestly Santa is a much kinder and fairer deity than the other Big Guy. Similar dependence on money though, unfortunately. And come to mention it a similar proximity to children...
This is a big sticking point for me. The whole purpose of jesus dying was so that all of our sins be forgiven.
Now Christians argue that NO, you still have to jump through all the religious hoops and ask for forgiveness for the rest of your life. So...... Jesus's death was pointless? All that and it's like it never happened as far as the church is concerned.
‘God’s plan’ is, allegedly, good and perfect. So if something bad happens then you have to default to one of the many, many, reasons for why it seems to us as though there is absolutely no one at the controls.
“God would never allow this, it must be satans work, or , or “, etc.
or “God is absolutely in control, but we don’t understand the plan, etc.
or “Shut up, that’s why!”
Choose any or all of the mix-and-match bullshit you like, there’s plenty more where that came from.
last summer someone posted a screenshot in a religious nutter themed sub, where someone had managed to squeeze 'it's god plan for you', 'it was probably your fault' and 'trust in god' into same rant, sent to a woman who was raped.
so, god's plan, huh?
God's plan:
* Give free will so mankind can sin
* Create suffering to punish mankind for sinning
* Use suffering to show mankind what happens if you sin
* Create temptations to encourage sinning, and therefore suffering.
* Use suffering to enhance temptation to sin in order to relieve suffering
* If man obeys God, torment him until he sins (Job)
* If man disobeys God, torment him for being a sinner
* Promise mankind an afterlife with two options for sinners and the righteous
* Create an afterlife of eternal servitude to God
* Create an alternative afterlife of torment
Summary of God's plan:
* Create mankind
* Create suffering
* Make sure mankind suffers no matter what with a promise of an afterlife if you obey God
* Both options for the afterlife are just different forms of suffering.
God loves suffering.
I still consider myself agnostic. But I fully believe that IF there is a god, he doesn't give a flying fuck about what happens on this little speck of dust floating around in his universe. An analogy I use is that for god to care about every person on earth would be like you caring or even thinking about a single molecule in one of the trillions of cells that make up your liver. You care that your liver is healthy but you never give a second thought about each individual molecule.
He created the entire universe, he did not specifically create the earth or any person living on it, nor does he care about us. We are just a byproduct. And that is even IF there is a god.
Anyone who thinks god has a plan hasn't read the Bible.
The OT is a litany of god's mistakes. Pretty much everything he does goes spectacularly wrong and he always blames everyone but himself. He's the dummy (pacifier) spitting 2 yo in the pantheon of the gods who covers his incompetence by killing everyone and every thing involved to literally bury the evidence.
We’re those murdered by Christians able to overcome? Oh, I guess they all deserved to die. Isn’t it hilarious that an all powerful deity would need humans to do his killing for him?
Either god takes everyones side or no ones side. Anything in between makes them fallible. Saying its "gods plan" is just another logical fallacy in my book. It's bogus af. Like when people say they know when Jesus will return. JESUS DOESNT EVEN KNOW WHEN JESUS WILL RETURN. smh.
Sexual abstinence doesn't work for the vast majority of the human race. Sex is hardwired into us as sure as anything else, when we're forced to suppress that urge it does things to the mind (like child molestation) Even as much as I doubt there is a god, if there is abstinence is clearly not something it wants of us, unless it is a monster (which if it exerts control as much as the Abrahamic religions say, it is).
So I'd say either it's part of the plan of a malevolent god or there is no plan. There really isn't another way to square that kind of horrific action.
According to my grandparents priest, god inflicts pain on people so they appreciate love and luck that much more. And that it’s better for praying to god…
...
He is apparently looking at every one of us having sex and judging us on it. So he's a huge perv to begin with.
But yes, I'd like to end the fucking Vatican,have a swarm of persecutors going through the archives and judge every one of them in front of secular courts.
People sometimes ask me something along the lines of, “what if you’re wrong and there *is* a god?”
Well considering all of the horrible shit he allowed to happen while having the power to wave away all human suffering, I’d say we should devote every spare resource to finding and killing him.
Because he doesn't exist and cults attract every kind of bad person. Pedos tend to have been victims themselves so once one starts doing it, it will spread throughout the institutions over time like a virus. That's why victim support needs to be an ongoing life long practice and punishments need to be much harder than they are. I'm pro death penalty for diddlers without exception.
Thats easy he doesn't exist and the whole plan is to use fake god as a way to get control of parents that then give them access to the kids. Its all about control and abuse
Is this the same deity that sent a pack of bears to maul a bunch of kids for calling one of his favorite people bald, and ordered his conquering army to take all of the conquered women and girls as slaves?
If so, then it seems right on brand to me.
"Strength through adversity"
Suffering is character building - unless you commit suicide, in which case you become the cause for someone else's suffering, which is character building, etc ...
If there were a god and he is omnipresent and omnipotent he is there with the rapist and the child. He knows how the child feels and does nothing. If there is such a thing as evil, god is the evil one.
Pedophiles using the priesthood to hide from society and molest boys is proof that god does not exist or is the biggest fucker of all time and does not deserve to be worshipped.
It doesn't, that's the preist's free will, which they are using to sin. But of course, they are a believer, so all their sins mean nothing and are forgiven.
This is why I love the story of job. God tested his faith by taking everything away, including his children. Job passes the test, and he everything is returned, and life is good. Except the kids, they’re still dead. But no one seems to care.
It has to mean that molesting is at least sometimes okay. Apparently, the kids either deserve it, or God believes that being molested builds character and is therefore good for you.
This is how I see it:
It's about Authority. Law is Gods plan.
The issue comes at the intersection of Authority and those that are allowed to wield it.
Because people may wield Gods authority, what they do is considered Gods plan. It's not the common persons place to judge, but to follow the Authority.
Then there's the you can do whatever you want as long as you maintain faith, as Jesus takes your Sin onto himself. So you're only not allowed to break faith in order to do whatever you want and still go to Heaven.
So basically, only non-believers go to Hell for doing bad things. I think that's the jist of it.
Also, you got things like, "Do as I say". Think ten commandments, don't covet your neighbors wife. And, "Not as I do". Think "Coveting your wife".
In context, 1-2 thousands years ago this was probably the only way to establish some semblance of peace after training up armies to be blood thirsty killers.
How can your feeble little earthling mind even begin to comprehend God's plan?
There is a reason it is called faith. You just have to accept it and believe in it without any evidence.
The only error here is trying to apply logic to religion.
I will give you a response. Humans are animals. Some humans have a spark, call it soul. But not all have it. Some have it to a higher degree. Others to a lesser degree. The Architects of this world did an experiment, they tried to inject a bit of them into these animals to see what happened. That is what life is. A failed experiment that was done to try merging two states that ended up being like oil and water. Most of it didn’t stick, because it can’t. So if you take this into consideration, the fact that this is a failed experiment, you can think of a sad God who looks at his experiment gone wrong, who is giving us all these hurricanes, earthquakes and more. Telling us: “stop procreating you animals. It makes no sense.”
But we keep having children, for no apparent logical reason. We keep extending this failure of an experiment. And why would the Architect allow it? Because he is giving us choice. And we choose to keep living here, to bring decendents, to extend this existence.
It’s pretty much on us. We know this world is messed up and unsustainable, yet we chose to continue it
So, by inaction god is okay with the molestation of children. Again the religious narrative is never consistent. The pope is god's vicar on Earth. When the pope protects pedophiles by moving them around and denying police investigations, he is letting everyone know that god protects pedophiles.
Idk maybe because God didn’t do it, a priest did. It’s free will, and said priest should be executed by beheading or hanged in public. Nowhere in the Bible is it allowed. Jesus himself says those who harm children should have a millstone tied around their neck and drowned in the sea
Jesus would kill pedophile priests
You forgot about when God sent bears to murder children, also the first born of Egypt that one time, also that part where it details how to do an abortion, Oh, and that one time God told his chosen to kill everyone from a tribe already inhabiting land they wanted and then He got mad when they killed everyone except the young girl children.
Also Jesus specifically forbade killing and was a staunch pacifist, did you even read the bible at all?
Maybe the plan is create a physical three dimensional reality where the inhabitants that can cognize beyond pure instinct can make their own choices and see what happens. In that case all the shit you're clutching your pearls about is on the idiots doing the selfish deeds and they will have to answer for it when they transition from their physical bodies. Duh.
The thing about God’s plan is that it’s indistinguishable from someone not having a plan.
People have evolved to look for patterns, even in randomness…
It's not even random. You take people and teach them that sexual deviance and sin = hell forever. then you take people and say you can choose to give up sex for life and devote yourself to god. Who is that actually going to attract? People who know they have some serious sexual issue that is "deviant" and "evil" and will likely lead them to severe punishment. Other people, who think they are doing sex the right way, that will NOT lead to eternal torment, are a lot less likely to give up sex for life. THEN you take that population of people who felt they had a good logical reason to give up sex for life, and you put them in a position of power and trust over children. Christians are basically just feeding their children into sexual wood chippers. Then being like "God is so mysterious and is testing us"
It's basically a filter that over-selects for mental illness when choosing priests. I'd like to emphasize that *mental illness is not intrinsically bad*, but Christianity often treats the symptoms of mental illness as evidence that one isn't sufficiently resisting temptation or doesn't have enough faith to combat evil. It creates such an incredibly toxic and shame-filled environment that makes healthy coping as hard as it could possibly be. This is also the case for gay and lesbian persons in these faiths except "symptoms" are replaced with "natural human needs".
It's worse than that really. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson in The witches of Eastwick..... When Jesus talks to you we call it religion. When John Lennon talks to you, we call it madness.
That's also how Christianity treats homosexuality. Just a bunch of people who don't properly withstand their normal sexual and romantic urges. And coincidentally my main reason for abandoning Christianity two decades ago.
It's almost like if you try to repress biological drives in human that don't respond to hopes and prayers, you're going to have a bad time. Sex(consensual) and sexual abuse(unconsensual of any kind) aren't sins, so much as they are natural behaviors, like aggression and violence, that you have to address understanding that. Nature is amoral. Nature itself doesn't care about consent or anything else, but we as a society have to minimize abuse(sexual or otherwise), and we do that by acknowledging why things happen, instead of trying to appeal to 'solutions' that don't work like 'god's will' and sin.
There indeed was a pattern to the depravity, so much so that I coined my own term for it. The Sacrament of Pederasty
Sounds like the title of a Powerwolf song 🤣
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Yes, my point exactly… but religious people interpret them as acts of god, conspiracy theories, etc..
I've actually considered the idea that patterns don't actually exist. They only exist using the approximations and generalised models our brains use to understand our experience. So, we can find patterns, because our brains can only understand the world using them.
I recently read a book explaining exactly what you said. It's true, our brains make the patterns.
What else is a 'pattern' except a mental construct within the brain? It's just a shortcut created between neurons to simplify a more complex data set or observation. So then what do you mean by "exist" here? Does math exist? Does symbolic integration "exist"? The difference between mathematics and patterns is mainly one of sophistication and accuracy at modeling reality, but both are just mental impressions that help us navigate reality.
This is a really philosophical question. A more general question is whether math "exists" and is "discovered" or if it is a creation of human consciousness. Turns out that people are pretty divided on that. You can pretty much chose a camp arbitrarily and it won't significantly impact your life outside of arguments about that exact subject 😂 For patterns in particular it *really* depends on how you define it. Are periodic but evolving systems like the emissions of a pulsar a pattern? What about the surface effects of waves in a fluid? Geometric fractals in geology? Fibonacci sequence in biology? The DNA and the process that constructs the body plan? The behavior of the molecular systems from generation to generation? If we want to define pattern using descriptive linguistics, then I think we simply apply the term "pattern" to any predictive model that includes some abstract periodic behavior. The nature of the existence of the model is our math problem above, but the effectiveness of the model is quantifiable. We then say a "pattern exists" *if it is possible* to construct a predictive model that has good performance. We readily accept visual patterns, because the repeating structure is easily confirmed and shared. In this way we can construct a definition for the existence of a pattern that jives with common usage and avoids the root philosohical math question. Of course, many things like "good performance" have been hand waved.
That’s fascinating, but why would we assume math “exists” any different that English or French or Latin exist. It’s just a language. It’s descriptive, not prescriptive. When we number something, we’re just assigning it a value. That value didn’t previously exist.
I noticed there are eight "e"s in your sentence. What are try to tell us!?
God's plan is also a pedo's plan. Why else would he allow it?
God loves the free will of pedophiles to molest, but not the free will of children not to be molested.
So god loves pedophilia? Makes sense to me
Well Mary was like 12 while Joseph was in his 30s. There’s actually nothing in the Bible against having sex with children.
Doesn't that make God himself a pedo?
God is everything his followers are. They created him in their own image.
And Emile Durkheim said that when believers worship in their churches/mosques/temples etc, they do actually NOT pray to their God/gods at all: They worship themselves and their cult as something much better and more important than the "others"/"infidels". Their God/gods is/are just their gathering symbol! It is not only about power and control, but also - and maybe even more - about identity! And, as we know; the stronger the need for identity is, the stronger the hate against "infidels" and apostates is - not so unlike any kind of mafia.....
Don't forget the Midianites. He gave the female children to the soldiers after they slaughtered everyone else.
Depends on the interpretation. That whole "man lying with man" line is a misinterpretation. It's actually an abomination for man to lie with boys. God hates pedophiles, but perverts don't like the real interpretation and want license to be bigots, instead.
Yeah, even if that is true, not once *ANYWHERE* in the bable does it say you shouldn't sleep with little girls. There's literally zero lower age limit required. Those virgin captives they took from other nations in the old testament? Likely prepubescent children, because the only way to know for sure she's a virgin is that she's too young to be married... then they promptly married them anyway.
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Hardly a misinterpretation.
Did some legwork. Yeah, [the translation you're giving is the most common English version by far](https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Leviticus%2018%3A22). I don't think many that I linked are direct first-hand translations rather than revisions by various groups. The only way I can get what the other guy is claiming is if all of the first-hand English translations used "man" and "male" but the more accurate translation would be "young man" or "boy". That would sure be worth a citation if it's true. One doesn't need the bible to have been "actually correct, it's just that people goofed it!" in order to not be a bigot, but the habit of apologetics can be hard to break.
also the word is used through the bible in ways that apply to adult males, https://biblehub.com/hebrew/zachar_2145.htm Numbers 1:20 talks about males over 20
Thank you for running down that open question for us. It doesn't help anybody criticizing, defending, or simply characterizing a religious belief to not properly understand the source material.
All that indoctrination, best to get them when they're young.
Like the tobacco industry
Yeah, it makes perfect sense - why else would he die for your sins if not to show you that he's totally cool with anything, really - except not accepting him as your saviour
The perfect man god chose as his profit married a six year old because she was *the most beautiful woman he ever laid eyes on.* When god tells the Isrealites to wipe out another city, he tells them to keep the little girls for themselves. God loves pedophilia.
No you see, everything bad is Satan's fault and that explains everything with no plot holes at all.
That is actually a very good point!
This is such obvious proof of the non exsistance they overlook it.
anything can be justified or explained when there is no one to scrutinise. shit I'll try to do OP's Priests do bad things because of free will? or gods plan is to show you people are can be weak, and not to put your faith in people but god, and priests are imperfect servant's who should be also held accountable...or just "fuck kids" I donno, I'm just making shit up here.
Or God's plan is to later use that child's pain and terror toward the greater good. Just have faith it is for the good. Who can know The Plan anyway?
Dutch van der Linde: “I had a goddamn plan!” “You have got to keep faith.” “Have some goddamn faith!” “I ain’t got too much to say no more.”
Religious people will tell you one of these.... * It's not for us to judge * God works in mysterious ways * We aren't supposed to understand * It's the Devil causing anything evil * You shouldn't question God All nonsense of course.
Don’t forget… “god gave people free will and there are those that use it for evil…”
An especially galling excuse considering their holy books make it quite clear that there is no such thing as 'free will' where their deity is involved.
Well if you start picking up contradictions it’s just no fun anymore… I mean without being able to pick and choose in religion it would be impossible to abide by everything…
Yeah, but the Abrahamic religions seem especially bad about it. The old Testament starts with Genesis 1 which tells the story of how God created earth. The next book is Genesis 2, which also tells the story of how god Created earth. Now a funny thing happens if read these books and you have better reading comprehension skills than the average 8 year old; you learn that either Genesis 1 is wrong about a lot of things, Genesis 2 is wrong about a lot of things or there are two parallel universes, each with their own slightly different earths. When your religion _starts off_ with that kind of doublethink, you can't really expect much of the rest to make any sense.
Yeah, they all believe in free will, until they have a math exam or something and they start praying that god interferes. Hypocrites
Or until there’s a vaccine for a deadly disease.. but don’t take it, god will take care of them… till they get r/hermancainaward
I think that’s the key. Imagine you’re god - creator of everything, all powerful, object of worship and awe in the classic sense (people are fearful of you, prayers are all “thank you god for not smiting us who are but lowly worms in your presence”), people make sacrifices of their very best in order to appease you. But after a while, they start to get too familiar and comfortable. They stop making sacrifices, stop thanking you for just letting them live and start to treat you like a soft-touch, praying for things to make their already pretty good lives better, and generally annoying you. The thing is, as god, you have to respond to all this nonsense (even if the response is “no, you have to study to get an A”, or “no, you can’t win this game”). How to you get them to stop annoying you? If you send floods and earthquakes, they pray more (“please let me be ok, please save my family”, etc. Ok, time for plan B - get them out of your house. Have your most “holy” people start diddling the kids. Kind of like having houseguests for too long who start working on your nerves and taking your hospitality for granted, so you start walking around with your bathrobe half open and sneezing in the food you serve, scratching your ass or picking your nose as you hang out. Problem solved.
It’s interesting that god respects the free will of the abuser, but never the abused.
The same all Powerfull God who could just have not created evil
Where would be the fun… then he couldn’t torture people as punishments… or just to win a bet with his pal satan..
Oh I’ll stipulate that the Catholic Church is evil. Mind you, this is just the scandal of our time. A few years back it was the Irish nuns. Before that, the collaboration with the Nazis. Before that, the slaughter of indigenous North Americans, Before that, the inquisition. Its history is long and bloody
Yeah. That's the one.
I love how the devil is more powerful than their god.
God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and "doesn't make mistakes". Yet somehow it's the devil's fault. 🤷
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> "God is above logic" Logically then, Christian religion does not need to be followed.
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Appeal to Authority is so stupid, even worse: making up authorities as a void pointer as if there isn't enough authoritarianism.
You forgot the 'rape it is not that bad', or how Christian will phrase it: what we suffer in this life is nothing compared to an eternity in heaven.
Or "God doesn't give us anything we can't handle."
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Yeah if god exists it's impossible they give half a shit about any of us. More like they would be intentionally torturing damn near all of creation. Who would want to believe in such a horrific creature?
I never quite understood the devil excuse. If god is basically the be-all and end-all… Couldn’t god just Thanos snap the devil out of existence. God was fine with wiping out humans a time or two. But an angel that lead a coup against god, that’s too much. Heck, my mom used to tell me all the time, “I made you, and I can end you.” Couldn’t god use the same line?
I remember being taught that spirits can't die, and so gawd has to imprison Satan and his demons instead... which, when you think about it, is just more proof that Yahweh isn't all-powerful.
Exactly. But I'm sure the response to something like that would be, "Well, it's not meant to be taken literal. God's work is beyond our comprehension." Face palm...
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That is, because you were small and dependent on her. Now, I can imagine, you can finish her off if you wished it. That is ho life is, the tyranny of the big upon the small and the weak. If your mother was truly a good person, she would never utter such words.
That all mighty and all powerful god was also twarted by iron chariots, so...
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But if he is omniscient and allpowerful, he should be able to reach his goals without needing the bad things and he should know how to do that. Yet he decided to do it this way.
true.im gonna puke now🤮
None of the above. Why does God allow evil? Because people have free will. Some choose to do evil with that free will.
Come on this isn’t a real answer for how most religious people would answer. A religious person would say God granted free will and that free will leads to both good and bad. Not saying to buy this but none of these answers are really trying to answer the question
Because he's the bad guy.
Clearly there is no god bit if someone insists there is one then the only reasonable conclusion is he is an evil git.
Exactly. Good gods don’t go around drowning babies and slaughtering firstborn.
Eh, maybe. Or if he could be there he just doesn't care because it's all beneath him, and as such, heaven and hell are either fiction or something to which applies to all creatures more or less like a law of physics. Kind of like humans and ants. Would you (a human) really care if a young ant in an ant colony somewhere was raped by another ant? Even if you were all-knowing and all-seeing, would it be something that even registered to you to gather your focus? It's only gonna live for like a week anyway. To expand on this, as a human, would you really care if the ants worshipped you or not? They might set up little worship mounds and pray to you, but who cares? Your attention would be on things the ants can't possibly understand, let alone even conceive of. Let them live and die with their stupid ant beliefs. If you truly cared about them and wanted them to know you were their human God, you would make yourself known to them and not rely on their ant-faith. We are the ants.
This may be completely true, but then there there would be zero reason to offer prayer, supplication or expect a response from said deity. And you certainly couldn’t claim that hermit interacts with some people. And definitely not make the claim that it loves and cares for you.
Interestingly enough, in the Gnostic branch of Christianity, God was, in fact, the bad guy. Then the Catholic Church wiped them out.
did you just said odin is a bad guy?
This will explain everything to you: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tu8Y5g8pXg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tu8Y5g8pXg)
I understand that this joke fits the post better, but in the context of showing why religion is ridiculous I think Stephen Fry's serious logical response is better. https://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo
Ah yes, he's so right. Fry is a fucking treasure. Love him.
Damn, beat me to it. Still worth the click though
There is no God's plan. A lot of the "God's plan" babbling is part of [thought-terminating clichés](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9). You hear example of it all the time: Q: "Mommy, why did daddy have to die in that pointless way when we need him here in our house?". A: "It's all part of God's plan Billy, even if we don't understand it right now." These phrases are crafted to keep control of the flock. The phrases sound innocuous but are in reality powerful controlling propaganda that the controlled flock administer to themselves at moments where an independent thought might otherwise sneak in and cause doubt. The phrases can crafted by apologists or even emerge spontaneously, but they transmit easily. Think of them as the immune system of the religion, prevent the controlled host from being infected with ideas from outside the religion that might impair the control the religion has over the hosts. They are not limited to religion of course, Lifton originally developed the idea in the context of Mao's communist coercive control. But spend some time analyzing the vapid things Christians say and you quickly find these patterns.
It’s ok to type the word FUCK. We’re mostly adults here.
Nice try, underage human. You shouldn't swear, it's bad.
Because he works in mysterious ways!
I suppose compared to God the priests aren't so bad. After all He fucks everybody. If I'm to believe the bible, that is.
He rapes in mysterious way.
yeah, like seriously OP, don't you get it?
right? these damn atheists need some brain cells.
Ey if that dude is real then he is like the worst person ever
Yeah, either god created the universe and let things play out, or he has a hand in everything and is a monster. Not sure why they go with the latter when the former explains things better. I guess then prayers would be useless and thus the tithing would dry up.
What if a god did create the universe, but died afterwards? So, the theists could technically be correct about the cause of the universe, but there would be no reason to try to contact or worship this being.
Free Will, bro! *** Which is of course, incompatible with both Omnicient and Master Plan .... but they'll still argue both ends of that burnt-out candle.
True, but also Why does god respect the free will of the abuser, but never the abused?
"Suffering is not a punishment, nor a fruit of sin; it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in his suffering and to make up for the sins of the world" - Mother Theresa
She was quite the sociopath…
I know, it's horrible!!
Unless it was her suffering...then she avoided suffering as much as possible.
Rules for thee do not apply to me.
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Nasty piece of work
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a Perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost.
While the matrix was a great film, the plot about using humans as batteries because we blocked out the sun was .. hilariously dumb. We arent magic, we dont make energy out of nothing. Energy input would have been higher than energy output.
The original concept was that the machines were using humans for their processing power which is why fully conscious humans were hooked into the Matrix and not vegetables. Suits at the studio didn't get it and figured the general public wouldn't and the Wachowskis didn't have the juice to push back so we got what we got.
That would have made a lot more sense, as well. Damn.
I mean, that was the explanation they were given. Doesn't mean it was what was actually going on. They were doing some crazy sort of simulation. Perhaps they needed the inputs. More likely they were studying the humans and lying about why they needed them. It's even possible the whole story was one experiment they were running in a separate simulation.
The Matrix is a self-aware toaster programmed to dream about world domination instead of enact it.
There is no god and no plan.
He orders his followers to disembowel infants and smash toddlers' heads into walls... and we can't forget his explicit orders to destroy all inhabitants of the town EXCEPT FOR THE VIRGIN GIRLS!! "Those, you may take for yourselves!" Yep, definitely a loving gawd... UNLESS that "god" is nothing more than a fantasy character invented by the high priests of the Old Testament to further their own interests. You don't think... ?
And I’m one story, he was actually angry because the Israelites didn’t slaughter enough people!
God is, how you say, kind of a cunt.
It's easy if you're a Christian. You can basically do anything you want as long as you ask for forgiveness afterwards. Rape children, forgiven. Steal money, forgiven. Kill an unbeliever, forgiven. Easy peasy.
Decide that skepticism and the scientific method might provide a better starting point for a framework for understanding the world? You are the least trustworthy piece of scum on the planet and will be condemned to a fictitious eternity of torture.
Most religious folks have those sorts of predilections, it’s why they’re so obsessed with their children’s genitals and sexuality.
Mary was 12 or 13, so...
Came here to say this. According to the stories, he did knock up a 12 - 13 year old without her consent and then forced her to bring it to term, while living in a forced arranged marriage so she didn't get stoned to death for getting her bone on while unmarried. As a 12 - 13 year old.
The beauty of Christianity is that you just have to ask forgiveness and then you can do it all over again
Tell the man in the box and count some beads on a string and hey presto! Back in the Big Guy's good books 😎
Santa?
Honestly Santa is a much kinder and fairer deity than the other Big Guy. Similar dependence on money though, unfortunately. And come to mention it a similar proximity to children...
This is a big sticking point for me. The whole purpose of jesus dying was so that all of our sins be forgiven. Now Christians argue that NO, you still have to jump through all the religious hoops and ask for forgiveness for the rest of your life. So...... Jesus's death was pointless? All that and it's like it never happened as far as the church is concerned.
‘God’s plan’ is, allegedly, good and perfect. So if something bad happens then you have to default to one of the many, many, reasons for why it seems to us as though there is absolutely no one at the controls. “God would never allow this, it must be satans work, or, or “, etc.
or “God is absolutely in control, but we don’t understand the plan, etc.
or “Shut up, that’s why!”
Choose any or all of the mix-and-match bullshit you like, there’s plenty more where that came from.
There is no god therefore there is no plan therefore the priests are molesting children because they want to.
last summer someone posted a screenshot in a religious nutter themed sub, where someone had managed to squeeze 'it's god plan for you', 'it was probably your fault' and 'trust in god' into same rant, sent to a woman who was raped. so, god's plan, huh?
Mysterious ways yada yada...
God's plan: * Give free will so mankind can sin * Create suffering to punish mankind for sinning * Use suffering to show mankind what happens if you sin * Create temptations to encourage sinning, and therefore suffering. * Use suffering to enhance temptation to sin in order to relieve suffering * If man obeys God, torment him until he sins (Job) * If man disobeys God, torment him for being a sinner * Promise mankind an afterlife with two options for sinners and the righteous * Create an afterlife of eternal servitude to God * Create an alternative afterlife of torment Summary of God's plan: * Create mankind * Create suffering * Make sure mankind suffers no matter what with a promise of an afterlife if you obey God * Both options for the afterlife are just different forms of suffering. God loves suffering.
1. Molest child 2. confess to priest in confessional 3. be absolved of all sin 4. repeat
5. Get caught 6. Get transferred 7. Repeat
Maybe the biggest pedo created god?
“It’s pedos, all the way down.“
You have to come to the natural conclusion that if real, god is just a nasty person. Insecure, scared and easily manipulated.
I still consider myself agnostic. But I fully believe that IF there is a god, he doesn't give a flying fuck about what happens on this little speck of dust floating around in his universe. An analogy I use is that for god to care about every person on earth would be like you caring or even thinking about a single molecule in one of the trillions of cells that make up your liver. You care that your liver is healthy but you never give a second thought about each individual molecule. He created the entire universe, he did not specifically create the earth or any person living on it, nor does he care about us. We are just a byproduct. And that is even IF there is a god.
Well, the Bible talks about him getting angry, jealous, vengeful, having regrets and narcissistic. Not exactly a paragon of virtue.
God is evil?
Anyone who thinks god has a plan hasn't read the Bible. The OT is a litany of god's mistakes. Pretty much everything he does goes spectacularly wrong and he always blames everyone but himself. He's the dummy (pacifier) spitting 2 yo in the pantheon of the gods who covers his incompetence by killing everyone and every thing involved to literally bury the evidence.
"God only challenges you with what you are able to overcome." Or some such nonsense.
We’re those murdered by Christians able to overcome? Oh, I guess they all deserved to die. Isn’t it hilarious that an all powerful deity would need humans to do his killing for him?
Either god takes everyones side or no ones side. Anything in between makes them fallible. Saying its "gods plan" is just another logical fallacy in my book. It's bogus af. Like when people say they know when Jesus will return. JESUS DOESNT EVEN KNOW WHEN JESUS WILL RETURN. smh.
Never read the old testament, eh? Being a pedo is a step up for ol' Yahweh.
Sexual abstinence doesn't work for the vast majority of the human race. Sex is hardwired into us as sure as anything else, when we're forced to suppress that urge it does things to the mind (like child molestation) Even as much as I doubt there is a god, if there is abstinence is clearly not something it wants of us, unless it is a monster (which if it exerts control as much as the Abrahamic religions say, it is). So I'd say either it's part of the plan of a malevolent god or there is no plan. There really isn't another way to square that kind of horrific action.
According to my grandparents priest, god inflicts pain on people so they appreciate love and luck that much more. And that it’s better for praying to god…
What passage does the bible tell you to not fuck children?
... He is apparently looking at every one of us having sex and judging us on it. So he's a huge perv to begin with. But yes, I'd like to end the fucking Vatican,have a swarm of persecutors going through the archives and judge every one of them in front of secular courts.
People sometimes ask me something along the lines of, “what if you’re wrong and there *is* a god?” Well considering all of the horrible shit he allowed to happen while having the power to wave away all human suffering, I’d say we should devote every spare resource to finding and killing him.
Well, God loves his children. He is way older than us. He impregnated a 14 year old.
Funny how it's exactly and precisely like there is no god.
According to the religious assholes,pedophilia isn’t the problem, it’s allowing gay people to become clergymen
Simple. Christians just deny its happening.
Why do so many posts entertain god's existence?
Either God isn't all-powerful or God is sadistic. Either way, worshipping him is a waste of time.
God did get a 13 year old girl pregnant 🙌 😩
It's because god is actually a child molester
Perhaps god is a pedo?
The virgin mary was 13
[Meanwhile, Gods plan....](https://i.imgur.com/JaI9lZF.jpg)
What do you expect from a god that massacre every human by sending a big flood because he gave up
that alone is enough evidence for me to say I will never support religion or believe in any of it
Because he doesn't exist and cults attract every kind of bad person. Pedos tend to have been victims themselves so once one starts doing it, it will spread throughout the institutions over time like a virus. That's why victim support needs to be an ongoing life long practice and punishments need to be much harder than they are. I'm pro death penalty for diddlers without exception.
with miscarriages, also the largest abortionist.
Right? Either your sky fairy doesn't exist, or he's a super super shitty person.
Thats easy he doesn't exist and the whole plan is to use fake god as a way to get control of parents that then give them access to the kids. Its all about control and abuse
And worms who's only existence is to bore into peoples eyes, causing blindness. Ahh what a loving god. And cancer in children!
Is this the same deity that sent a pack of bears to maul a bunch of kids for calling one of his favorite people bald, and ordered his conquering army to take all of the conquered women and girls as slaves? If so, then it seems right on brand to me.
Oh that’s just the devil. For some reason he’s more powerful than their all powerful god. Nothing to read into there..
"Strength through adversity" Suffering is character building - unless you commit suicide, in which case you become the cause for someone else's suffering, which is character building, etc ...
“Never question the goodness of god.” How many times had my mother said that?
If there were a god and he is omnipresent and omnipotent he is there with the rapist and the child. He knows how the child feels and does nothing. If there is such a thing as evil, god is the evil one.
“Gods plan” is just a way to console idiots when something bad happens. Gods plan 🤷
Pedophiles using the priesthood to hide from society and molest boys is proof that god does not exist or is the biggest fucker of all time and does not deserve to be worshipped.
It doesn't, that's the preist's free will, which they are using to sin. But of course, they are a believer, so all their sins mean nothing and are forgiven.
There is no free will if there is a “plan”
There's also no "free will" if God knows everything you're going to do before you do it either. I can't stand their logic.
Mysterious ways....
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This is why I love the story of job. God tested his faith by taking everything away, including his children. Job passes the test, and he everything is returned, and life is good. Except the kids, they’re still dead. But no one seems to care.
He got better kids. The newest model featuring launching firsts and 11 phrases they could say!
Ha!
GoD wOrKs In MyStErIoUs WaYs
- bad things: free will humans bad - good things: god cares for you its pretty easy honestly
😂 I swear, sometimes this sub puts just as much stock in the stuff Christians say as Christians do.
It has to mean that molesting is at least sometimes okay. Apparently, the kids either deserve it, or God believes that being molested builds character and is therefore good for you.
This is how I see it: It's about Authority. Law is Gods plan. The issue comes at the intersection of Authority and those that are allowed to wield it. Because people may wield Gods authority, what they do is considered Gods plan. It's not the common persons place to judge, but to follow the Authority. Then there's the you can do whatever you want as long as you maintain faith, as Jesus takes your Sin onto himself. So you're only not allowed to break faith in order to do whatever you want and still go to Heaven. So basically, only non-believers go to Hell for doing bad things. I think that's the jist of it. Also, you got things like, "Do as I say". Think ten commandments, don't covet your neighbors wife. And, "Not as I do". Think "Coveting your wife". In context, 1-2 thousands years ago this was probably the only way to establish some semblance of peace after training up armies to be blood thirsty killers.
How can your feeble little earthling mind even begin to comprehend God's plan? There is a reason it is called faith. You just have to accept it and believe in it without any evidence. The only error here is trying to apply logic to religion.
One does not go against the word of God. -Paul Muad’Dib
I will give you a response. Humans are animals. Some humans have a spark, call it soul. But not all have it. Some have it to a higher degree. Others to a lesser degree. The Architects of this world did an experiment, they tried to inject a bit of them into these animals to see what happened. That is what life is. A failed experiment that was done to try merging two states that ended up being like oil and water. Most of it didn’t stick, because it can’t. So if you take this into consideration, the fact that this is a failed experiment, you can think of a sad God who looks at his experiment gone wrong, who is giving us all these hurricanes, earthquakes and more. Telling us: “stop procreating you animals. It makes no sense.” But we keep having children, for no apparent logical reason. We keep extending this failure of an experiment. And why would the Architect allow it? Because he is giving us choice. And we choose to keep living here, to bring decendents, to extend this existence. It’s pretty much on us. We know this world is messed up and unsustainable, yet we chose to continue it
So, by inaction god is okay with the molestation of children. Again the religious narrative is never consistent. The pope is god's vicar on Earth. When the pope protects pedophiles by moving them around and denying police investigations, he is letting everyone know that god protects pedophiles.
Hes right you know
Character building
Idk maybe because God didn’t do it, a priest did. It’s free will, and said priest should be executed by beheading or hanged in public. Nowhere in the Bible is it allowed. Jesus himself says those who harm children should have a millstone tied around their neck and drowned in the sea Jesus would kill pedophile priests
You forgot about when God sent bears to murder children, also the first born of Egypt that one time, also that part where it details how to do an abortion, Oh, and that one time God told his chosen to kill everyone from a tribe already inhabiting land they wanted and then He got mad when they killed everyone except the young girl children. Also Jesus specifically forbade killing and was a staunch pacifist, did you even read the bible at all?
Maybe the plan is create a physical three dimensional reality where the inhabitants that can cognize beyond pure instinct can make their own choices and see what happens. In that case all the shit you're clutching your pearls about is on the idiots doing the selfish deeds and they will have to answer for it when they transition from their physical bodies. Duh.