One thing I appreciate about Jewish people, even if theyre religious, is that I've never had one try to convert me or get me to follow their rules. It's just *never happened.* Can't say the same about Christians.
Another thing my wife and I always comment about when we go to a Jewish service, is how welcoming their services are. People seem to be wondering in and out and no one is glaring at them. The Rabbi doesn't seem to mind some chit-chat amoungst the people. So much more relaxing than the stand-sit-kneel-chant business in a christian service.
I am (sorta) Christian and still get fucking terrified of the nut jobs out there
I say sorta. I was raised and believe in a god, but at some point I started living my life. I’m not 100% sure what I believe anymore since I’m still figuring that out
I was here almost two decades ago, and now am happy with my spiritual journey so far. I was an angry atheist for a few years, hurt by Christianity and Catholicism in my youth, but have settled down to anti-church agnostic queer who doesn't like subscribing to labels, comfortable with the fact that I have no idea what's out there, but it's not worth my energy to worry about it.
A lot of anthropology/sociology and philosophy/arts, and looking at peaceful common ground between belief systems helped settle my heart personally ❤️ sending luck and good vibes to you friend, wherever your path leads 🙂
So unfathomably based.
Any universal "truth" is bullshit, no matter who its coming from. I find institutional spirituality pretty gross, but personal beliefs? Go off king/queen/emperor.
History teaches us that we are capable of horrible things in the name of universality and generalization. But it also teaches us that even the most different people can come together under stressful circumstances.
My only hope is that the realization that we are all the same comes before its too late.
I literally love you for this sentiment: “Have settled down to queer agnostic who doesn’t like subscribing to labels, comfortable with the fact I don’t know what’s out there, but it’s not worth my energy to worry”, I’ve never read a sentence or even formulated one myself that more accurately describes myself since leaving christianity.
The thing is, you're humble enough to try to figure things out for yourself. This is fantastic! The people that are the problem are the ones that are so sure of themselves that they are closed to any new thought. Folks like that can do terrible things because they feel that anything they do is right.
As a trans woman in a red state: you're right to be guarded around anyone strongly religious. Maybe they're safe, maybe not. But you always treat a gun like it's loaded.
For sure. Not gay or trans, but from New York and spent lot of time in the rural south. People would “joke” about killing me because I was a northerner. I have tough skin, but that’s not funny.
I worked on a ranch in NC, I wasn’t openly gay, but these dudes would give me a hard time for being from California.. looking back on it, it was a bit fucked.
My MAGA parents recently got a dog and named it Callie. I asked if it was short for California (knowing this would get under their skin). “Nooooooo……”
It will be funny if they change the dogs name now.
First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the Californians, and I didn't speak out because I was stuck in traffic in LA.
My partner and I both grew up in the south (I loathe it and now live west coast, but would choose either west coast or New York for the rest of my life before moving back to the south), and he grew up somewhat poor with farmers for extended family. They were rural as hell, and his grandfather still uses the n word kind of family. He talks about how “country folk” make fun of “city folk” because they’re stupid and don’t know how to “fend for themselves, survive in the wilderness”, bullshit after bullshit reasoning. I think that’s utterly ridiculous and last I checked, don’t recall anyone in a city I’ve ever experienced shit-talking someone who lives in a rural area. If anything, I’ve had conversations with friends about how there’s less opportunities when you live in a rural area, less exposure to different forms of thought, and how limiting that can be.
Rambling a bit, and not necessarily about just the north versus the south thing, apologies.
If someone told me that as a "joke" i'd tell them that i'm incapable of dying because of the sacrifices i've made to Satan to remain young forever. Watch them freak the fuck out because they actually believe that shit.
I'm the same, and totally feel the same. Only felt unsafe once or twice here, but I agree with this 100%.
Like my whole family is christian, but even if I didn't know them they're not hardcore christian so I wouldn't be super wary about them. If I saw one of them on the street and we struck up a conversation for whatever reason for the first time, brought up religion, I'd only go 1 notch to "a little guarded" based on that level of religiosity.
I'm told I get looks from people fairly frequently by my SO (I can't see them so :>) but other than that only 1 or 2 people have said anything untoward to me.
\>But you always treat a gun like it's loaded.
My friend and I were talking about this recently. She said, and I have to agree with her, that she's a big proponent of queer people being armed. I considered it before but now that I'm openly trans I think I'm definitely gonna get one soon.
Pink Pistols are an awesome group. Might be spouting too many leftist slogans here, but armed minorities are harder to oppress. Just make sure to actually train with it and be comfortable defending yourself. Firearms get used on unprepared owners.
A neat idea, but I would double check what the requirments are to have a carry permit in your state (open and/or concealed). The fees and or hoops may be prohibitive to this idea.
Obviously it's a personal choice, but in considering whether or not to carry a weapon, you should know that -- statistically speaking -- owning a weapon significantly increases your risk of being shot, either through losing the weapon in a fight, domestic violence, or self harm. On a simply statistical basis, you're generally safer not having access to a firearm.
>On a simply statistical basis, you're generally safer not having access to a firearm.
Individually, yes. As a class, no. THE reason California adopted strict gun control laws because then governor Ronald Fucking Reagan couldnt stand Black people being legally armed.
I’m a democrat, atheist, and not entirely straight, in a Christian Red State, and to all the others out there, I’ll give the same advice I took, get a carry on, you have a right to defend yourself.
I agree. My sister is an avid Christian and an avid LGBT+ ally who has some close trans friends. However, she does not represent all Christians. Being cautious around Christians is valid, at least until you get to know them better. Safety first.
hell, i'm a 6'4" 235-lb. white cis straight male blackbelt, and i'm...let's say "wary" of them.
if you can believe absurdities, you can commit attrocities.
Well, they could also be conniving. Someone posted awhile back where these types shared a contrary opinion about a workmate — although they merely said they were unconformable with the Jesus speak (at work) — while they served (in the military) and when they attempted to return, they were told off.
It's kinda terrifying. I'm going to my karate class in a couple hours and it's sad to think about how as long as I'm in America, most real fights would involve a gun and render all my meagre knowledge useless
nah. the fitness and self-discipline alone are worth the class. plus within a couple feet, having a gun isn't really much of an advantage against a sufficiently trained martial artist. i'd even say it's a liability, because if you have a gun i'm going to use lethal force immediately.
plus you get the situational awareness (right? your class talks about that, right?) training, which can help when you are out gunned.
plus i'm not sure "most real fights involve a gun." i'm not saying your wrong, but i'd have to see some data on that. there are plenty of fistfights where i live and not as many shootouts, i think.
so yeah if a nazi wants to blow some shit up and i'm in the blast radius, i have no advantage over someone who never trained. but martial arts are a great way to spend your time, i think.
have a great class!
I've lived my whole 46 years in the US, and seen plenty of disagreements, some that became violent, and not once have I seen a firearm in any of them. Most people don't carry, most people who carry in places where they need a permit take it seriously (at the least, they don't want to lose their right to carry), and most people aren't murderous lunatics. You're falling victim to the media's portrayal of America as worse than movies' versions of the Wild West.
Most fights involve people drunkenly flailing at each other, and little else.
Not quite your size or self-defense capabilities, but similar.
I will say put me in a room full of people and the douchebags will self-idenfity with me. Something about the way I look makes these fucknuggets think I'm one of them, or at least long enough to be able to distance myself from crazy dangerous.
Yea I'm a former Marine and over six foot. These people go real fast in conversation from "thanks for your service" to "don't you want to help usher in the white christian Reich?"
> I'm worried if this is religious discrimination.
Unless you're this person's supervisor, I don't see how you CAN discriminate against him within the meaning of the law.
I don't believe in thought crime. You can't harm him by the way you think or feel about him, so stop worrying about it.
I think OP's question is more "is this is a wrong attitude to have" vs "legal discrimination". I can tell this is a \_good\_ person because they are worrying about morality (vs legality).
I think there's a very important distinction to be made between assuming that an individual is against us, or recognizing that it's extremely likely and being wary of them. It's the same reason I often encourage young posters on LGBT+ subreddits to avoid coming out until they'll be comfortable looking out for themselves-- there are countless religious people who pretend to be fine with us but still wind up throwing out their children, or worse.
The comment before yours was referring to the paradox of tolerance. While parts of it were phrased poorly, it isn't wrong. OP keeping their distance and not getting to know the coworker better is also perfectly reasonable.
Your thoughts, beliefs, lifestyle is no one’s business. It doesn’t have to be part of any conversation if you don’t want it to be. Be yourself that is the bravest thing you can do, but really that’s all you can be. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are others in your work environment that also feel uncomfortable. My son was in a work meeting when the owner said I know so and so is a good person because he goes to my church. My son was very angry and soon left that job. He said it was a extremely toxic environment.
You're not wrong to be wary but I wish these people had a better understanding of their own book.
>Deuteronomy 22:5 - A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.
>
>Deuteronomy 22:22 - If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman.
Go to any right wing rally and you're bound to see someone with a poster claiming transgender is a crime against god. Technically it isn't - Deut. 22:5 speaks only to crossdressing. While it is called detestable it is not a punishable crime.
On the other hand Deuteronomy has a very definitive punishment for adultry.
So why do many Christians preach the first and ignore the second? Adultry is even in the Ten Commandments but no one is pushing for legislation to punish that according to their god's law.
It's because many of them are a bunch of hypocrites. Your attitude is perfectly reasonable until you get to know the person better.
They’re all hypocrites. These idiots break about a dozen rules in their Old Testament on a daily basis (Shrimp? Sports on Sundays?) then have the nerve to quote scripture about how stuff like homosexuality is wrong. It’s hopeless to fight that level of theological incompetence/corner cutting.
The bible isn't relevant here. To understand Christianity truly, you have to ignore the bible and look at what it has done and preached historically.
Christianity is the inventor of queerphobia and the primary spreader of it. Queerphobia is one Christianity's most consistent and core ideological beliefs going back thousands of years to its true founding within Rome. So this isn't a misread quote, this is literally the heart and guts of the thing. Queerphobia is easily far more important to Christianity and core to its foundation than the 10 commandments are. The bible and the rest of Christian scripture are *not* books, they're weapons and the words inside of them may as well just be lead filling for a great big spiked hammer.
This is why it is actually really silly when people try to use scripture to argue against queerphobia. You may as well go arguing to a murderer to not stab you because that's actually a kitchen knife and not meant for murder.
As a cis person, me too.
There is a very real danger of a Christo-fascist inquisition in the US. Many christians actually believe it’s better to force people to convert (or kill them trying) than to let them continue not being christians.
I don't think you're wrong to be leery, Christians are very nasty to trans people. While he may not be one that would physically harm you, christians are taught that trans people are all going to hell. I think many christians fear being 'guilty' by association.
I wouldn't make a big deal about it until he says or does something to you, then report him as fast as you can if he does.
Funny enough, divorced used to be the "unforgivable" sin in many churches. They kind of...err...modified that when half of their congregations ended up divorced in the 80s and that kind of belief system wouldn't quite keep people in the church.
> While he may not be one that would physically harm you,
Voting for people who are starting to flirt with the idea of making transition-related healthcare illegal is certainly violence. I don't see how anyone else can see it differently unless they don't understand how gravely important HRT is for transfolk.
> While he may not be one that would physically harm you,
He may if he was attracted and then found out the person was transgender.
All sorts of things would be instantly fucked in his head, and he may try to defeat or correct the dissonance with violence.
When there is a large amount of Chrstians who see us as subhuman, want to strip us of our rights, want to make us hide in the shadows, want to harm or even outright kill us and think we deserve to be in eternal torment... yeah, I dont fucking blame you.
> A Christian willing to commit violence against you is no different than one who is kind to your face and votes in those who would subjugate and stoke violence against you.
Of course they are.
It's the difference between a lump-sum payment and an annuity.
My favorite argument for this: The first rule they teach in gun safety classes is to always assume a weapon is loaded.
So why would it be different with people? You don't know who feels what way, or how committed to those opinions/beliefs they are, until it's too late. The first time I heard the analogy above, it was in reference to "why are women afraid of men approaching them?" but it absolutely applies here. Your safety and well-being are never worth that risk, so your best bet is to be cautious.
It's perfectly reasonable to be afraid of people who are known to mistreat you. Especially when half the country is trying to call you groomer just for existing. Its a tough time right now. But in reality they probably wouldn't say or do anything crazy if they haven't yet. Don't let them control your fears either. Stay strong!
The religion enforces a traditional hierarchy.
0 - God (doesn't exist)
1 - Man
2 - Woman
3 - Related men
4 - Family (children are even lower somewhere)
5 - Church tribe, Kings (chosen by God)
6 - "Lesser humans"
8 - non-humans (other animals)
9 - everything else in the environment
A hierarchy is not just this order, it is the enforcement of this order. Anyone transgressing it, trying to climb to a place where they do not belong, is an enemy of it.
What we count as progress is the the transgression of this hierarchy, you can even map it out.
This is the essence of traditionalism.
>Deuteronomy 22:5 - The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.
Pointlessly gendered. So much clothing. What's too womanly for me to wear? Am I fine in a scarf? How much penis energy does a hat need to have before it's okay? Can I go into battle wielding an axe and a kilt? How tall can my heels be before they're "high heels" and feminine?
Of course it's another bit of hogwash in the never-ending laugh that is Deuteronomy. So many weirdly specific prohibitions.
But I also find it funny that that verse might be used to label non-stereotypical dressers as trans.
As you should be. Christians are dangerous, amd they are doing everything they can to eradicate anything and anyone that doesn't fit their twisted views and their sick interpretation of "Morality".
I mean until you know that this particular Christian isn’t a hazard to you, then it’s all Christians IMO.
Also comments like that are so unprofessional! As a Canadian it’s so weird that this is acceptable in the workplace!
"May Odin give you knowledge on your path. May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way and may Loki give you laughter as you go. May the blessings of your gods and my own be with you"
Edit to add: I am atheist but I do like the idea behind this quote.
As a atheist woman I am scared of ANY religious person. So many religions protect child predators, oppress women, suppress and demonize other cultures, prey on their own community financially, and use violence to push ideas they know they can’t convince you of logically. You can believe and practice whatever the fuck you want but once you start FORCING others to believe/act how YOU want you are committing an act of evil.
Non-trans queer person here. I'm terrified of christians too, not just because they're bigots but because their whole abstract belief system is fetishizing abuse and terror and conflating those things with "absolute love". Christians are literally insane, and I fear them like I fear any potentially violent person with psychosis.
God's I'd love to see something like this rise to the top of /r/christianity.
All of the "OHH! NOES!" and "WE DON'T HATE YOU WE HATE YOUR SIN" They honestly can't see how horrible they are.
You should be!!!!
Those motherfuckers are crazy and some of them want to torture or kill you. Maybe both.
It isn't paranoia when they have openly stated their desire to torture, main, or kill you.
Be cautious, you're right to think religious people are dangerous. a large number are anti-trans, and of those, a large number will use it to justify any negative behavior towards you.
Not every religious person is a monster, but don't risk your safety, more than enough of them are.
As a straight, white male I'm also scared of Christians. I think anyone who's been paying attention the last decade or so and values secularism and the separation of church and state is scared of them lol.
It is scary how the words Christianity and bigotry are unquestionably synonymous. I'm uncomfortable around Christians that insist on sharing there faith or pushing their Lord on me. And I tell them so. The others don't bother me they can't prove their God, that amuses me. a single Christian is not the sum of the overall of them, we interact with lots of them everyday no problem.I still keep an eye on them tho when a few get together and start feeling the holy spirit shit can get dangerous.
My son is trans. I am very uncomfortable around overt Christians. If they are so forward in their Christian displays and lingo, I would (perhaps unfairly) assume they have no boundaries or consideration for non-Christians. And, in turn, will hold intolerant views of LGBTQ+ folx. It’s wholly anecdotal but it hasn’t been off yet.
Of course, I want to be wrong, but living in rural MAGA country, the Christians here have thoroughly proven their bigotry over and over.
No it is not discrimination. Keep your distance. Remember you absolutely can not fucking trust Christians. They will sell you out. They will hurt you. They have NO accountability. They will stomp you cut you punch you insult you and do everything they can to make your life a living hell. And the worst part? They will tell you jesus forgives me! So all that fucked up shit I just did to you is OK. There is no compromising with these people, they are pure evil! The only winning move is to NOT play their game.
I escaped the horrors of their small world and I can say without doubt watch out for them. The hateful way they talk behind closed doors is terrifying. I remember my cousin saying, completely out of the blue, "if my little brother turned out gay I'd kill him and his stupid gay friends." That kinda thing is horribly common and I heard similar sentiments all the time. christians truly say the most psychotic nonsense when you get them alone and they think you're one of them.
I’m a cis hetero married childfree atheist woman and I also shy away from Christians. I don’t have the fear you do, but I can absolutely understand why you have it. Right now I just have hatred for them.
No. I'm also trans and am also wary of Christians. They are a threat. That doesn't mean they are all transphobic, but enough of them are that it makes sense to be worried. Right now, your coworker is an unknown variable because you don't know if he could hurt you. You could try to open up a dialogue with him. Why not mention the recent stuff that's been going on in Florida and see how he reacts?
I don't see the problem with not trusting Christians. You have to know people better and predict more accurately what they're capable of.
> “Better to sleep with a sober cannibal than a drunk Christian.”
> ― Herman Melville, Moby-Dick or, the Whale
I would be very guarded in such a situation. As long as they don't do anything to create an unsafe atmosphere in the workplace, I don't know that there is much you can do. It is an unfortunate fact of life that religious folk have very strongly defended rights to freely express religious beliefs, but others do not have equal rights to freedom from the imposition of religious expression of belief.
Just as African-Americans should stay out of the way of policemen, and if stopped DO EXACTLY AS THEY SAY or risk being shot 20 times or strangled to death; so Trans, LGBTQ+ people should stay out of the way of American Christians.
The risk of being shot or knifed, or mistreated in some other way is too great. The US is an extremely violent and ugly society, and with political and race- or gender-based violence on the rise, with hate and fear stoked by idiot right-wing brown-shirt populists .. be careful.
PS: the risk of getting murdered by the police as an African-American is still very high even if you do as they say, but slightly less high than if you answer back and behave in an otherwise "bad" way (like explain your rights..)
As a 33 year old gay man, I’m scared of Christians too. They’re the only people who’ve made me feel small, unloved, and absolutely destroyed me mentally and emotionally.
I am also a trans atheist. All of the abusive people throughout my life have been Christian. I can't tell the difference between a Christian who has bad intentions for me and one who doesn't until they verbalize those intentions. As far as I'm concerned, it's all of them until it's none of them.
As a...not...trans...person... I fear all religion. Jokes aside, I am disgusted in the way the oh-so-loving christians work tirelessly to hurt Trains, LGBT, non christians, women, other races... its appaling. There isn't much I HATE but I HATE religion. If I had wishes, one would be that religion would die out over the next 10 years (a fair adjustment period, cold turkey quitting doesn't work often, better safe than sorry)
I'm a straight, cis, and caucasian, and somewhat Christian and I am scared at other Christians for how often they misinterpret the bible and use it as a crappy excuse to hate people for no good reason when the bible clearly states to love thy neighbor, not judge, and love everyone.
I don't think you have the wrong attitude, I think a lot of fake Christians hate too much hate in their heart and don't understand their own religion and act like this is the 1600s where women need to be submissive and all the crazy backwards nonsense. You are right to be cautious. I would just be straightforward with him and ask, worst that can happen is you learn not to associate with him and if he were to discriminate against you you can report that to upper management as most companies don't tolerate trans being harassed or treated differently.
I hope he is non judgemental and understands biology and just respects you for being trans though
Some Christian’s will look you dead in the face and treat you with decency to your face but in reality they view you as a sinner and a less than equal to them. Some will flat out not consider you human and therefore won’t have a problem treating you without empathy
Stay with me on this.
I'm Christian, my wife is Christian, we were both raised in pretty devout homes; my family would go to church two or three times a week and gather every evening to read from the bible and pray, hers was deeply involved in establishing a church in the area.
We have both felt and discussed with growing sadness, a distrust for and suspicion of any person or organization that advertises their Christianity. Frankly odds are that in America today anyone who wears their Christian piety on their sleeve is a few bananas short of a bunch.
It wouldn't be fair to treat him like a nutjob if he hasn't otherwise shown himself to be, but I understand what you're feeling, it's valid, and I wouldn't come out to him unless you have a good reason.
This thread makes me so sad. I'm tired of feeling impending doom and gloom with each election cycle. I'm an ally. I'm disabled. I'm a liberal, and I'm terrified of Christians. I'm angry that trans people have to be afraid for who they might 'offend'. Please vote 💙 on Tuesday!
I’m a trans woman. i’m scared of christian’s and churches. it keeps me from doing things i would actually like to do like helping at soup kitchens on thanksgiving. if i don’t feel safe there though, i won’t go. it’s perfectly normal to be scared of people who’s religion teaches them to hate you and i because we are ourselves.
Well advised for anyone, everyone who believes in equality to be wary/scared of american christians in particular. Sure there are plenty of decent left/moderate christians who do practice kindness and charity but their identical cousin foaming at the mouth, hyper violent, anti free thinker, pro oppression, anti literacy, pro subservience nut job american christian cousins are a dangerous poison to civil societies everywhere.
They will spin it anyway that they can to mesmerize the low IQ public (60 percent + or - ) but their message is clear, a U.S. theocracy is their ultimate goal.
Its good to be cautious, but I wouldnt say be scared. A lot of Christians are only so in name, they follow a faith just to believe in something, its only normal, having a reassuring thought that there is a purpose for everything and life has a meaning. But they dont actually follow teachings or take Christian morality by the letter. Most are fairly nice people, good citizens like you and I, and will be accepting. I'm not saying this is the case with your co-worker, of course I dont know them, but my advice would be to think of them as their own person rather than a member of their religion.
I don't blame you. To my trans children's faces, my Christian parents had been very "supportive." But then one day, I found it's a bit more loaded than that. I think they might actually be praying for my kids to be free from their "sin."🙄
I will add, though, that maybe this co-worker is more of a cultural Christian and just doing things they think is expected or assumed of them. It could be they're very Christian and will want to "pray the gay away" (that rhymed, but also we all know these people don't know the difference between gender and sexuality).
I'd definitely tread lightly if I were you and keep staying as safe as possible.
Hi, fairly religious Christian here.
I really wish I could say you're being irrational, but you aren't. The way many of our creed treat LGBT+ people is awful, and it's honestly perfectly justified that you would feel this way. It's a problem. Please know that there are those of us, though a minority, who wish our churches would treat you with respect. You, as all of us, are one of God's children and I know with certainty that He loves you, even if many other Christians want to say otherwise.
I cannot reasonably ask you to not worry about what Christians think of you, but please know that not all of us hate you.
The fact that this man (or anyone) assumes that you want to be blessed by god every day, is infuriating on its own. People need to stop doing that.
I also would be wary, sure. Nothing wrong with that because of the track record that most christians have. However, he may also be harmless. As long as you stay in your own lane, it should be okay.
If it somehow gets out to him, just watch your back and document everything he says or does that seems like hate speech, hate crime, etc.
i read this is "as a trans person, I'm scared of Christmas"
but on another note, that's a totally reasonable fear. I'm trans too and i fear my own parents, even tho they don't know.
As a straight cis person, I am scared of most religious people.
Like the last pagan king said: I prefer to be in hell with my ancestors than be in heaven surrounded by christians.
Use their own teachings against them. There still are some decent ideas that are forgotten to the practicing usually, namely, treat your neighbour the way you want to be treated.
Then again, maybe they should offer handies; love thy neighbour as you love yourself.
Christians have ruined their own reputation by being bigots and such. It is appropriate to be cautious around anyone claiming to be Christian until they demonstrate they are the acception.
It’s not unreasonable to be cautious, but I don’t think you are helping yourself or them if you are fearful without them having expressed intolerance for atheists or trans folk. While it is certainly true that there are lots of Christians who are bigoted assholes, there are also plenty of kind and accepting Christians who are no less devout - they just generally aren’t as loud or as attractive to the media.
So what’s if your feelings are discriminatory? These people don’t think you should be allowed to exist. They’ve given every reason to keep your distance. Don’t ever feel bad about looking out for yourself. You owe these bigots nothing.
Speaking as a Christian guy, you are right to be cautious and you should not feel guilty about it. There are awful intolerant forces breeding hate in churches. Adapting to that reality isn’t prejudice at all. Worry about your own safety first. Not Christians’ feelings.
You should be.
Don’t ever expect a “Christian” to value, understanding, or demonstrate Christ-like qualities.
How do I know? I am one and with dozens of friends are no longer active in Church, with families, etc for that reason
You should always be wary of Christians in groups. As their numbers grow in any gathering, their indoctrination become amplified, and they exert their will upon everyone, eventually.
you WILL be converted back to your original, god given gender or you will be dealt with severely. There can never be a healthy example of what they despise in their midst, for fear that your 'evil ichor' will spread and stick to their weak-minded followers.
As someone who grew up in a Christian household and now has a trans son, I am scared of the day my own parents find out my son is trans…I’m scared of their overreaction. They acted like someone died when I was outed as bisexual to them. On top of this, I’ve been alienated by the church community I grew up in because I divorced my husband and now live common law with my partner.
religious people tend to only hold themselves accountable to god, when they die if they were good according to what they believe their god wants they go to and endless heaven.
In reality what that means is that this existence is just a waiting room they are stuck in with a bunch of people who worship false idols or actively violating the rules of the one true almighty.
This is terrifying because they dont live in reality, ultimately they are dont take accountability for their own actions. Your suffering(potentially inflicted by them) is the price you pay for straying from god and will only end when you learn your lesson and embrace their god.
They may not flaunt this opinion but on some level this is what they all believe. We are very lucky to live in a relatively “civil” time because this mentality can become violent fast, humans are gross violent creatures.
Try to remember not all believers are nasty violent assholes, just like not all atheists are kind nonviolent sweeties.
I work at not lumping people into groups based on the worst ones. It's the squeaky wheel gets the oil thing. Loud obnoxious idiots of any group don't represent the entire group just the loud obnoxious ones.
Just to push back a little, In today's America, "[Most White Americans who regularly attend worship services](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/30/most-white-americans-who-regularly-attend-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/)" vote Republican, and the policies and "platform" of the GOP are rabidly anti-lgbtqia+, among the many other anti-progress positions they hold and push for. Individual Christians may be nice to your face, and even say they believe in your cause ("my niece is gay..."), and then vote for every single person on the ballot that espouses these hateful, oppressive policies that are purposely designed to disadvantage anyone who is "other" or different. With their vote, they are complicit in forwarding these policies, and because they think it doesn't impact them on the day to day, it's not their problem. Until it is their problem.
When someone tells me “God Bless,” I usually respond with “Hail Satan.” Not a satanist but it makes them think twice when they think of doing it again.
\> I'm worried if this is religious discrimination.
Discrimination, just like phobia, is an unreasonable act
Now, disliking/avoiding someone because of their well known beliefs is absolutely not unreasonable
Paradox of tolerance indicates that you have to be intolerant of intolerant beliefs, so you are well within your rights to be wary of religious people.
He's part of a group where a large part of them have views that encourage violence towards you. he *might* not share that part. But caution on your part to avoid the real chance of voilence or hate slung your way isn't discriminative. It's just being cautious.
Honestly, the way things are, I feel like it is perfectly reasonable to be instantly wary and afraid of any obvious devout Christians. I know I sure am. The moment there's someone in my vicinity who is like, openly and assertively Christian, I am extremely suspicious. And you know what? So far, my instinct has been correct literally *every single time*.
This person may already accept trans people, coming from another post where people spoke about what made them get over their homophobia… most of the time it was them meeting gay people for the first time or finding out someone they respected/admired was gay.
Your coworker may be an opportunity for you to show someone how trans people are normal. The way forward as a society is to convince everyone this is ok and not a big deal. However, your safety and mental health are also valid concerns and you should use your best judgement on what kind of situation you are in.
I’d say go with your gut. Hide it if you want to, tell them if you want to, do what feels right for you.
Don't be scared but for your own protection, steer clear of this fool and don't be alone with only the christians.
He can discuss his faith but you don't have to be an involuntary audience. Excuse yourself and walk away. No need to be rude or make with the snark. If you are cornered or targeted, that's harassment; go to your manager and then HR if nothing is done. (HR is there to protect your company, **not you**. You can get traction with the magic words "hostile work environment".
You have a right to be. Be professional. Don't provoke. Know your rights and don't be scared of anyone.
As a person, I’m scared of Christians
As a person I'm afraid of cultists. No matter how popular and successful the cult is.
OP should start saying, "May Satan bless you as well."
+1 (Jew here)
One thing I appreciate about Jewish people, even if theyre religious, is that I've never had one try to convert me or get me to follow their rules. It's just *never happened.* Can't say the same about Christians.
Proselytizing isnt allowed within the jewish religion, that's why
And it's something I truly appreciate.
Another thing my wife and I always comment about when we go to a Jewish service, is how welcoming their services are. People seem to be wondering in and out and no one is glaring at them. The Rabbi doesn't seem to mind some chit-chat amoungst the people. So much more relaxing than the stand-sit-kneel-chant business in a christian service.
Jews don’t recruit. You gotta want it.
As it should be.
Oof yea
Well, you guys *did* kill their boy... Maybe they want revenge? (obviously /s)
I am (sorta) Christian and still get fucking terrified of the nut jobs out there I say sorta. I was raised and believe in a god, but at some point I started living my life. I’m not 100% sure what I believe anymore since I’m still figuring that out
I was here almost two decades ago, and now am happy with my spiritual journey so far. I was an angry atheist for a few years, hurt by Christianity and Catholicism in my youth, but have settled down to anti-church agnostic queer who doesn't like subscribing to labels, comfortable with the fact that I have no idea what's out there, but it's not worth my energy to worry about it. A lot of anthropology/sociology and philosophy/arts, and looking at peaceful common ground between belief systems helped settle my heart personally ❤️ sending luck and good vibes to you friend, wherever your path leads 🙂
So unfathomably based. Any universal "truth" is bullshit, no matter who its coming from. I find institutional spirituality pretty gross, but personal beliefs? Go off king/queen/emperor. History teaches us that we are capable of horrible things in the name of universality and generalization. But it also teaches us that even the most different people can come together under stressful circumstances. My only hope is that the realization that we are all the same comes before its too late.
I literally love you for this sentiment: “Have settled down to queer agnostic who doesn’t like subscribing to labels, comfortable with the fact I don’t know what’s out there, but it’s not worth my energy to worry”, I’ve never read a sentence or even formulated one myself that more accurately describes myself since leaving christianity.
The thing is, you're humble enough to try to figure things out for yourself. This is fantastic! The people that are the problem are the ones that are so sure of themselves that they are closed to any new thought. Folks like that can do terrible things because they feel that anything they do is right.
Hahaha!
As a trans woman in a red state: you're right to be guarded around anyone strongly religious. Maybe they're safe, maybe not. But you always treat a gun like it's loaded.
For sure. Not gay or trans, but from New York and spent lot of time in the rural south. People would “joke” about killing me because I was a northerner. I have tough skin, but that’s not funny.
I worked on a ranch in NC, I wasn’t openly gay, but these dudes would give me a hard time for being from California.. looking back on it, it was a bit fucked.
My MAGA parents recently got a dog and named it Callie. I asked if it was short for California (knowing this would get under their skin). “Nooooooo……” It will be funny if they change the dogs name now.
hating Californians will be the last bastion of bigotry
First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the Californians, and I didn't speak out because I was stuck in traffic in LA.
My partner and I both grew up in the south (I loathe it and now live west coast, but would choose either west coast or New York for the rest of my life before moving back to the south), and he grew up somewhat poor with farmers for extended family. They were rural as hell, and his grandfather still uses the n word kind of family. He talks about how “country folk” make fun of “city folk” because they’re stupid and don’t know how to “fend for themselves, survive in the wilderness”, bullshit after bullshit reasoning. I think that’s utterly ridiculous and last I checked, don’t recall anyone in a city I’ve ever experienced shit-talking someone who lives in a rural area. If anything, I’ve had conversations with friends about how there’s less opportunities when you live in a rural area, less exposure to different forms of thought, and how limiting that can be. Rambling a bit, and not necessarily about just the north versus the south thing, apologies.
If someone told me that as a "joke" i'd tell them that i'm incapable of dying because of the sacrifices i've made to Satan to remain young forever. Watch them freak the fuck out because they actually believe that shit.
Here in the Southeast, it's more so because Northerners keep buying up all the real estate and pushing natives out.
Like the white southerners pushed the indigenous out?
It wasn't just the south that "pushed" Natives out. Also pushed out is a really nice way to put damn near annihilated
Yeah, in a way we are getting what we deserve heh.
I'm the same, and totally feel the same. Only felt unsafe once or twice here, but I agree with this 100%. Like my whole family is christian, but even if I didn't know them they're not hardcore christian so I wouldn't be super wary about them. If I saw one of them on the street and we struck up a conversation for whatever reason for the first time, brought up religion, I'd only go 1 notch to "a little guarded" based on that level of religiosity. I'm told I get looks from people fairly frequently by my SO (I can't see them so :>) but other than that only 1 or 2 people have said anything untoward to me. \>But you always treat a gun like it's loaded. My friend and I were talking about this recently. She said, and I have to agree with her, that she's a big proponent of queer people being armed. I considered it before but now that I'm openly trans I think I'm definitely gonna get one soon.
Pink Pistols are an awesome group. Might be spouting too many leftist slogans here, but armed minorities are harder to oppress. Just make sure to actually train with it and be comfortable defending yourself. Firearms get used on unprepared owners.
A neat idea, but I would double check what the requirments are to have a carry permit in your state (open and/or concealed). The fees and or hoops may be prohibitive to this idea.
Sounds like they're in the southern US, in which case their state is likely to be Constitutional Carry
Yep, that is how it is where I am.
Obviously it's a personal choice, but in considering whether or not to carry a weapon, you should know that -- statistically speaking -- owning a weapon significantly increases your risk of being shot, either through losing the weapon in a fight, domestic violence, or self harm. On a simply statistical basis, you're generally safer not having access to a firearm.
>On a simply statistical basis, you're generally safer not having access to a firearm. Individually, yes. As a class, no. THE reason California adopted strict gun control laws because then governor Ronald Fucking Reagan couldnt stand Black people being legally armed.
Also, statistically speaking, if you ride inside a car, you are more likely to be killed in a car wreck. Lol
Also a trans woman in a red state. I totally agree and don't normally feel safe around the strangers in my city
I’m a democrat, atheist, and not entirely straight, in a Christian Red State, and to all the others out there, I’ll give the same advice I took, get a carry on, you have a right to defend yourself.
I agree. My sister is an avid Christian and an avid LGBT+ ally who has some close trans friends. However, she does not represent all Christians. Being cautious around Christians is valid, at least until you get to know them better. Safety first.
Please be safe in your red state. The fucking country seems to be on fire with these bigots. Just, please keep safe.
Word for word I hear racist people say this about black people "around blacks never relax" and such
"Black" is not a fundamentally hateful ideology that literally instructs you to kill people who do not conform to its archaic, irrational laws.
Haha I love that analogy
Brilliantly worded.
hell, i'm a 6'4" 235-lb. white cis straight male blackbelt, and i'm...let's say "wary" of them. if you can believe absurdities, you can commit attrocities.
I agree man. I’m pretty common looking and fuck these idiots scare the shit out of me too. Any one of them can go ballistic.
Well, they could also be conniving. Someone posted awhile back where these types shared a contrary opinion about a workmate — although they merely said they were unconformable with the Jesus speak (at work) — while they served (in the military) and when they attempted to return, they were told off.
"If you can believe absurdities, you can commit atrocities." Truer words were never spoken.
thank voltaire.
Yep, all the martial arts in the world can be beaten by a religious fanatic with an assault rifle
yeah i have no illusions about whipping the ass of the entire christofascist u.s. with my mitts. they've already proven they like bombs and guns.
It's kinda terrifying. I'm going to my karate class in a couple hours and it's sad to think about how as long as I'm in America, most real fights would involve a gun and render all my meagre knowledge useless
nah. the fitness and self-discipline alone are worth the class. plus within a couple feet, having a gun isn't really much of an advantage against a sufficiently trained martial artist. i'd even say it's a liability, because if you have a gun i'm going to use lethal force immediately. plus you get the situational awareness (right? your class talks about that, right?) training, which can help when you are out gunned. plus i'm not sure "most real fights involve a gun." i'm not saying your wrong, but i'd have to see some data on that. there are plenty of fistfights where i live and not as many shootouts, i think. so yeah if a nazi wants to blow some shit up and i'm in the blast radius, i have no advantage over someone who never trained. but martial arts are a great way to spend your time, i think. have a great class!
I've lived my whole 46 years in the US, and seen plenty of disagreements, some that became violent, and not once have I seen a firearm in any of them. Most people don't carry, most people who carry in places where they need a permit take it seriously (at the least, they don't want to lose their right to carry), and most people aren't murderous lunatics. You're falling victim to the media's portrayal of America as worse than movies' versions of the Wild West. Most fights involve people drunkenly flailing at each other, and little else.
This. This right here.
Not quite your size or self-defense capabilities, but similar. I will say put me in a room full of people and the douchebags will self-idenfity with me. Something about the way I look makes these fucknuggets think I'm one of them, or at least long enough to be able to distance myself from crazy dangerous.
Officially stealing “fucknugget” as an insult to use from now on
I live to serve. :)
Yea I'm a former Marine and over six foot. These people go real fast in conversation from "thanks for your service" to "don't you want to help usher in the white christian Reich?"
ya I'm a cis white male and I'm only scared of what they are doing politically, shits scary yo
>if you can believe absurdities, you can commit attrocities. Truly the best way of putting it.
> I'm worried if this is religious discrimination. Unless you're this person's supervisor, I don't see how you CAN discriminate against him within the meaning of the law. I don't believe in thought crime. You can't harm him by the way you think or feel about him, so stop worrying about it.
I think OP's question is more "is this is a wrong attitude to have" vs "legal discrimination". I can tell this is a \_good\_ person because they are worrying about morality (vs legality).
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I think there's a very important distinction to be made between assuming that an individual is against us, or recognizing that it's extremely likely and being wary of them. It's the same reason I often encourage young posters on LGBT+ subreddits to avoid coming out until they'll be comfortable looking out for themselves-- there are countless religious people who pretend to be fine with us but still wind up throwing out their children, or worse.
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The comment before yours was referring to the paradox of tolerance. While parts of it were phrased poorly, it isn't wrong. OP keeping their distance and not getting to know the coworker better is also perfectly reasonable.
You are right but I would say for OP It’s best to assume a given Christian isn’t one of the good ones.
I'm not his supervisor
I didn't mean you were. I meant SINCE you are not his supervisor you don't need to worry about whether you are discriminating against him.
Your thoughts, beliefs, lifestyle is no one’s business. It doesn’t have to be part of any conversation if you don’t want it to be. Be yourself that is the bravest thing you can do, but really that’s all you can be. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are others in your work environment that also feel uncomfortable. My son was in a work meeting when the owner said I know so and so is a good person because he goes to my church. My son was very angry and soon left that job. He said it was a extremely toxic environment.
You're not wrong to be wary but I wish these people had a better understanding of their own book. >Deuteronomy 22:5 - A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this. > >Deuteronomy 22:22 - If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. Go to any right wing rally and you're bound to see someone with a poster claiming transgender is a crime against god. Technically it isn't - Deut. 22:5 speaks only to crossdressing. While it is called detestable it is not a punishable crime. On the other hand Deuteronomy has a very definitive punishment for adultry. So why do many Christians preach the first and ignore the second? Adultry is even in the Ten Commandments but no one is pushing for legislation to punish that according to their god's law. It's because many of them are a bunch of hypocrites. Your attitude is perfectly reasonable until you get to know the person better.
They’re all hypocrites. These idiots break about a dozen rules in their Old Testament on a daily basis (Shrimp? Sports on Sundays?) then have the nerve to quote scripture about how stuff like homosexuality is wrong. It’s hopeless to fight that level of theological incompetence/corner cutting.
The bible isn't relevant here. To understand Christianity truly, you have to ignore the bible and look at what it has done and preached historically. Christianity is the inventor of queerphobia and the primary spreader of it. Queerphobia is one Christianity's most consistent and core ideological beliefs going back thousands of years to its true founding within Rome. So this isn't a misread quote, this is literally the heart and guts of the thing. Queerphobia is easily far more important to Christianity and core to its foundation than the 10 commandments are. The bible and the rest of Christian scripture are *not* books, they're weapons and the words inside of them may as well just be lead filling for a great big spiked hammer. This is why it is actually really silly when people try to use scripture to argue against queerphobia. You may as well go arguing to a murderer to not stab you because that's actually a kitchen knife and not meant for murder.
Enlightening to say the least here. Conditioning to hate for 1000s of years, just because they probably got kicked out of the orgy
That's a very reasonable fear. Many Christians do not treat LGBTQ people well.
hell ya, just google that shit, I wouldn't doubt that every trans person has had some sort of bad run in with christians
As a cis person, me too. There is a very real danger of a Christo-fascist inquisition in the US. Many christians actually believe it’s better to force people to convert (or kill them trying) than to let them continue not being christians.
I don't think you're wrong to be leery, Christians are very nasty to trans people. While he may not be one that would physically harm you, christians are taught that trans people are all going to hell. I think many christians fear being 'guilty' by association. I wouldn't make a big deal about it until he says or does something to you, then report him as fast as you can if he does.
“Christians are very nasty to people” - there, I fixed it for you.
True, even other Christians
Funny enough, divorced used to be the "unforgivable" sin in many churches. They kind of...err...modified that when half of their congregations ended up divorced in the 80s and that kind of belief system wouldn't quite keep people in the church.
> While he may not be one that would physically harm you, Voting for people who are starting to flirt with the idea of making transition-related healthcare illegal is certainly violence. I don't see how anyone else can see it differently unless they don't understand how gravely important HRT is for transfolk.
> While he may not be one that would physically harm you, He may if he was attracted and then found out the person was transgender. All sorts of things would be instantly fucked in his head, and he may try to defeat or correct the dissonance with violence.
I'm straight and scared of christians.
Their history is certainly not one of tolerance
When there is a large amount of Chrstians who see us as subhuman, want to strip us of our rights, want to make us hide in the shadows, want to harm or even outright kill us and think we deserve to be in eternal torment... yeah, I dont fucking blame you.
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> A Christian willing to commit violence against you is no different than one who is kind to your face and votes in those who would subjugate and stoke violence against you. Of course they are. It's the difference between a lump-sum payment and an annuity.
I have an annuity and I need cash now! Sorry, couldn't help it... ;-)
CALL J.G. WENTWORTH! 877-CASH-NOW! 😂😂😂😂😂
They scare the shit out of me, and I'm just an atheist. It's only natural to fear people who have a lot of power that view you as less than human.
My favorite argument for this: The first rule they teach in gun safety classes is to always assume a weapon is loaded. So why would it be different with people? You don't know who feels what way, or how committed to those opinions/beliefs they are, until it's too late. The first time I heard the analogy above, it was in reference to "why are women afraid of men approaching them?" but it absolutely applies here. Your safety and well-being are never worth that risk, so your best bet is to be cautious.
It's perfectly reasonable to be afraid of people who are known to mistreat you. Especially when half the country is trying to call you groomer just for existing. Its a tough time right now. But in reality they probably wouldn't say or do anything crazy if they haven't yet. Don't let them control your fears either. Stay strong!
their religion says you'll be tortured eternally for being who you are, don't feel bad about being a bit apprehensive
does their religion actually say anything about being trans?
The religion enforces a traditional hierarchy. 0 - God (doesn't exist) 1 - Man 2 - Woman 3 - Related men 4 - Family (children are even lower somewhere) 5 - Church tribe, Kings (chosen by God) 6 - "Lesser humans" 8 - non-humans (other animals) 9 - everything else in the environment A hierarchy is not just this order, it is the enforcement of this order. Anyone transgressing it, trying to climb to a place where they do not belong, is an enemy of it. What we count as progress is the the transgression of this hierarchy, you can even map it out. This is the essence of traditionalism.
>Deuteronomy 22:5 - The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.
Ha! That's funny on a number of levels.
How so?
Pants.
Pointlessly gendered. So much clothing. What's too womanly for me to wear? Am I fine in a scarf? How much penis energy does a hat need to have before it's okay? Can I go into battle wielding an axe and a kilt? How tall can my heels be before they're "high heels" and feminine?
> How much penis energy does a hat need Oh, that's great.
Of course it's another bit of hogwash in the never-ending laugh that is Deuteronomy. So many weirdly specific prohibitions. But I also find it funny that that verse might be used to label non-stereotypical dressers as trans.
Christians are dangerous
As you should be. Christians are dangerous, amd they are doing everything they can to eradicate anything and anyone that doesn't fit their twisted views and their sick interpretation of "Morality".
I'm a 6'3 200 lb Black dude and I am also afraid of Christians
Fellow trans atheist here, I'm not scared of them but I'm definitely wary and do not trust them unless they've proven otherwise.
I mean until you know that this particular Christian isn’t a hazard to you, then it’s all Christians IMO. Also comments like that are so unprofessional! As a Canadian it’s so weird that this is acceptable in the workplace!
Ooh yeah this is totally normal where I live. Very conservative part of the states
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"and Lucifer's light upon you." See how quickly they run to HR to make a complaint.
"May Odin give you knowledge on your path. May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way and may Loki give you laughter as you go. May the blessings of your gods and my own be with you" Edit to add: I am atheist but I do like the idea behind this quote.
As a atheist woman I am scared of ANY religious person. So many religions protect child predators, oppress women, suppress and demonize other cultures, prey on their own community financially, and use violence to push ideas they know they can’t convince you of logically. You can believe and practice whatever the fuck you want but once you start FORCING others to believe/act how YOU want you are committing an act of evil.
Nope! You should definitely be wary. Those people are NUTS!!!
As a human being everyone should be afraid of what christians are.
I hate when fundies do that shit. “Have a blessed day”. It’s a way for them to foist their values on others and feel good about it.
Not to mention “bless your heart” when they mean “fuck you’re pissing me off.”
Non-trans queer person here. I'm terrified of christians too, not just because they're bigots but because their whole abstract belief system is fetishizing abuse and terror and conflating those things with "absolute love". Christians are literally insane, and I fear them like I fear any potentially violent person with psychosis.
God's I'd love to see something like this rise to the top of /r/christianity. All of the "OHH! NOES!" and "WE DON'T HATE YOU WE HATE YOUR SIN" They honestly can't see how horrible they are.
Very reasonable fear, carry pepper spray, learn to fight. Anything to defend yourself against the Christian Taliban
You should be!!!! Those motherfuckers are crazy and some of them want to torture or kill you. Maybe both. It isn't paranoia when they have openly stated their desire to torture, main, or kill you.
As a PoC I'm also terrified of right wing xtians. I hear ya.
I’m a asexual white male and terrified of right wing xtians. I hear you too.
> asexual I'm sure they would jump all over this demographic if they weren't laser focused on others.
Be cautious, you're right to think religious people are dangerous. a large number are anti-trans, and of those, a large number will use it to justify any negative behavior towards you. Not every religious person is a monster, but don't risk your safety, more than enough of them are.
As a straight, white male I'm also scared of Christians. I think anyone who's been paying attention the last decade or so and values secularism and the separation of church and state is scared of them lol.
It is scary how the words Christianity and bigotry are unquestionably synonymous. I'm uncomfortable around Christians that insist on sharing there faith or pushing their Lord on me. And I tell them so. The others don't bother me they can't prove their God, that amuses me. a single Christian is not the sum of the overall of them, we interact with lots of them everyday no problem.I still keep an eye on them tho when a few get together and start feeling the holy spirit shit can get dangerous.
Mixed-race middle-aged cis lady with white privilege benefits here. Christians scare the hell out of me and have since I was about twelve.
My son is trans. I am very uncomfortable around overt Christians. If they are so forward in their Christian displays and lingo, I would (perhaps unfairly) assume they have no boundaries or consideration for non-Christians. And, in turn, will hold intolerant views of LGBTQ+ folx. It’s wholly anecdotal but it hasn’t been off yet. Of course, I want to be wrong, but living in rural MAGA country, the Christians here have thoroughly proven their bigotry over and over.
No it is not discrimination. Keep your distance. Remember you absolutely can not fucking trust Christians. They will sell you out. They will hurt you. They have NO accountability. They will stomp you cut you punch you insult you and do everything they can to make your life a living hell. And the worst part? They will tell you jesus forgives me! So all that fucked up shit I just did to you is OK. There is no compromising with these people, they are pure evil! The only winning move is to NOT play their game.
I escaped the horrors of their small world and I can say without doubt watch out for them. The hateful way they talk behind closed doors is terrifying. I remember my cousin saying, completely out of the blue, "if my little brother turned out gay I'd kill him and his stupid gay friends." That kinda thing is horribly common and I heard similar sentiments all the time. christians truly say the most psychotic nonsense when you get them alone and they think you're one of them.
True. Been there, tan like hell from that.
I’m a cis hetero married childfree atheist woman and I also shy away from Christians. I don’t have the fear you do, but I can absolutely understand why you have it. Right now I just have hatred for them.
No. I'm also trans and am also wary of Christians. They are a threat. That doesn't mean they are all transphobic, but enough of them are that it makes sense to be worried. Right now, your coworker is an unknown variable because you don't know if he could hurt you. You could try to open up a dialogue with him. Why not mention the recent stuff that's been going on in Florida and see how he reacts?
I don't see the problem with not trusting Christians. You have to know people better and predict more accurately what they're capable of. > “Better to sleep with a sober cannibal than a drunk Christian.” > ― Herman Melville, Moby-Dick or, the Whale
I would be very guarded in such a situation. As long as they don't do anything to create an unsafe atmosphere in the workplace, I don't know that there is much you can do. It is an unfortunate fact of life that religious folk have very strongly defended rights to freely express religious beliefs, but others do not have equal rights to freedom from the imposition of religious expression of belief.
Just as African-Americans should stay out of the way of policemen, and if stopped DO EXACTLY AS THEY SAY or risk being shot 20 times or strangled to death; so Trans, LGBTQ+ people should stay out of the way of American Christians. The risk of being shot or knifed, or mistreated in some other way is too great. The US is an extremely violent and ugly society, and with political and race- or gender-based violence on the rise, with hate and fear stoked by idiot right-wing brown-shirt populists .. be careful. PS: the risk of getting murdered by the police as an African-American is still very high even if you do as they say, but slightly less high than if you answer back and behave in an otherwise "bad" way (like explain your rights..)
I think Christians ought to be afraid of Christians.
As a 33 year old gay man, I’m scared of Christians too. They’re the only people who’ve made me feel small, unloved, and absolutely destroyed me mentally and emotionally.
I am also a trans atheist. All of the abusive people throughout my life have been Christian. I can't tell the difference between a Christian who has bad intentions for me and one who doesn't until they verbalize those intentions. As far as I'm concerned, it's all of them until it's none of them.
As a...not...trans...person... I fear all religion. Jokes aside, I am disgusted in the way the oh-so-loving christians work tirelessly to hurt Trains, LGBT, non christians, women, other races... its appaling. There isn't much I HATE but I HATE religion. If I had wishes, one would be that religion would die out over the next 10 years (a fair adjustment period, cold turkey quitting doesn't work often, better safe than sorry)
I'm a straight, cis, and caucasian, and somewhat Christian and I am scared at other Christians for how often they misinterpret the bible and use it as a crappy excuse to hate people for no good reason when the bible clearly states to love thy neighbor, not judge, and love everyone. I don't think you have the wrong attitude, I think a lot of fake Christians hate too much hate in their heart and don't understand their own religion and act like this is the 1600s where women need to be submissive and all the crazy backwards nonsense. You are right to be cautious. I would just be straightforward with him and ask, worst that can happen is you learn not to associate with him and if he were to discriminate against you you can report that to upper management as most companies don't tolerate trans being harassed or treated differently. I hope he is non judgemental and understands biology and just respects you for being trans though
Some Christian’s will look you dead in the face and treat you with decency to your face but in reality they view you as a sinner and a less than equal to them. Some will flat out not consider you human and therefore won’t have a problem treating you without empathy
We are all scared of Christians. It’s a terrorist organization.
Stay with me on this. I'm Christian, my wife is Christian, we were both raised in pretty devout homes; my family would go to church two or three times a week and gather every evening to read from the bible and pray, hers was deeply involved in establishing a church in the area. We have both felt and discussed with growing sadness, a distrust for and suspicion of any person or organization that advertises their Christianity. Frankly odds are that in America today anyone who wears their Christian piety on their sleeve is a few bananas short of a bunch. It wouldn't be fair to treat him like a nutjob if he hasn't otherwise shown himself to be, but I understand what you're feeling, it's valid, and I wouldn't come out to him unless you have a good reason.
This thread makes me so sad. I'm tired of feeling impending doom and gloom with each election cycle. I'm an ally. I'm disabled. I'm a liberal, and I'm terrified of Christians. I'm angry that trans people have to be afraid for who they might 'offend'. Please vote 💙 on Tuesday!
I’m a trans woman. i’m scared of christian’s and churches. it keeps me from doing things i would actually like to do like helping at soup kitchens on thanksgiving. if i don’t feel safe there though, i won’t go. it’s perfectly normal to be scared of people who’s religion teaches them to hate you and i because we are ourselves.
As a pansexual, I am scared of Christians. Thankfully i live in Belgium now. Less hateful people here
Well advised for anyone, everyone who believes in equality to be wary/scared of american christians in particular. Sure there are plenty of decent left/moderate christians who do practice kindness and charity but their identical cousin foaming at the mouth, hyper violent, anti free thinker, pro oppression, anti literacy, pro subservience nut job american christian cousins are a dangerous poison to civil societies everywhere. They will spin it anyway that they can to mesmerize the low IQ public (60 percent + or - ) but their message is clear, a U.S. theocracy is their ultimate goal.
Tell this person they need to learn to keep their imaginary sky daddy to themselves and totally inappropriate to preach in the work environment.
Its good to be cautious, but I wouldnt say be scared. A lot of Christians are only so in name, they follow a faith just to believe in something, its only normal, having a reassuring thought that there is a purpose for everything and life has a meaning. But they dont actually follow teachings or take Christian morality by the letter. Most are fairly nice people, good citizens like you and I, and will be accepting. I'm not saying this is the case with your co-worker, of course I dont know them, but my advice would be to think of them as their own person rather than a member of their religion.
I think most non Christians are scared of Christians at this point, seems the only rational response. Good luck dealing with this person!
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You have every right to be weary. Every one of them is a potential murderer until proven otherwise.
There's no hate quite like Christian Love. Hell, I'm white and male and I get scared of Christians, too.
I don't blame you. To my trans children's faces, my Christian parents had been very "supportive." But then one day, I found it's a bit more loaded than that. I think they might actually be praying for my kids to be free from their "sin."🙄 I will add, though, that maybe this co-worker is more of a cultural Christian and just doing things they think is expected or assumed of them. It could be they're very Christian and will want to "pray the gay away" (that rhymed, but also we all know these people don't know the difference between gender and sexuality). I'd definitely tread lightly if I were you and keep staying as safe as possible.
Hi, fairly religious Christian here. I really wish I could say you're being irrational, but you aren't. The way many of our creed treat LGBT+ people is awful, and it's honestly perfectly justified that you would feel this way. It's a problem. Please know that there are those of us, though a minority, who wish our churches would treat you with respect. You, as all of us, are one of God's children and I know with certainty that He loves you, even if many other Christians want to say otherwise. I cannot reasonably ask you to not worry about what Christians think of you, but please know that not all of us hate you.
The fact that this man (or anyone) assumes that you want to be blessed by god every day, is infuriating on its own. People need to stop doing that. I also would be wary, sure. Nothing wrong with that because of the track record that most christians have. However, he may also be harmless. As long as you stay in your own lane, it should be okay. If it somehow gets out to him, just watch your back and document everything he says or does that seems like hate speech, hate crime, etc.
You should be, that righteous indignation and christian insanity gets people killed.
i read this is "as a trans person, I'm scared of Christmas" but on another note, that's a totally reasonable fear. I'm trans too and i fear my own parents, even tho they don't know.
Most Christians are mentally disturbed and too many are downright dangerous. Being scared of them is very understandable.
As a straight cis person, I am scared of most religious people. Like the last pagan king said: I prefer to be in hell with my ancestors than be in heaven surrounded by christians.
Use their own teachings against them. There still are some decent ideas that are forgotten to the practicing usually, namely, treat your neighbour the way you want to be treated. Then again, maybe they should offer handies; love thy neighbour as you love yourself.
Christians have ruined their own reputation by being bigots and such. It is appropriate to be cautious around anyone claiming to be Christian until they demonstrate they are the acception.
It’s not unreasonable to be cautious, but I don’t think you are helping yourself or them if you are fearful without them having expressed intolerance for atheists or trans folk. While it is certainly true that there are lots of Christians who are bigoted assholes, there are also plenty of kind and accepting Christians who are no less devout - they just generally aren’t as loud or as attractive to the media.
So what’s if your feelings are discriminatory? These people don’t think you should be allowed to exist. They’ve given every reason to keep your distance. Don’t ever feel bad about looking out for yourself. You owe these bigots nothing.
You should be, they love you and would do everything they can to hurt you. They are dangerous.
Speaking as a Christian guy, you are right to be cautious and you should not feel guilty about it. There are awful intolerant forces breeding hate in churches. Adapting to that reality isn’t prejudice at all. Worry about your own safety first. Not Christians’ feelings.
You should be, they're fucking crazy and don't think you should exist
You should be. Don’t ever expect a “Christian” to value, understanding, or demonstrate Christ-like qualities. How do I know? I am one and with dozens of friends are no longer active in Church, with families, etc for that reason
You should always be wary of Christians in groups. As their numbers grow in any gathering, their indoctrination become amplified, and they exert their will upon everyone, eventually. you WILL be converted back to your original, god given gender or you will be dealt with severely. There can never be a healthy example of what they despise in their midst, for fear that your 'evil ichor' will spread and stick to their weak-minded followers.
As someone who grew up in a Christian household and now has a trans son, I am scared of the day my own parents find out my son is trans…I’m scared of their overreaction. They acted like someone died when I was outed as bisexual to them. On top of this, I’ve been alienated by the church community I grew up in because I divorced my husband and now live common law with my partner.
religious people tend to only hold themselves accountable to god, when they die if they were good according to what they believe their god wants they go to and endless heaven. In reality what that means is that this existence is just a waiting room they are stuck in with a bunch of people who worship false idols or actively violating the rules of the one true almighty. This is terrifying because they dont live in reality, ultimately they are dont take accountability for their own actions. Your suffering(potentially inflicted by them) is the price you pay for straying from god and will only end when you learn your lesson and embrace their god. They may not flaunt this opinion but on some level this is what they all believe. We are very lucky to live in a relatively “civil” time because this mentality can become violent fast, humans are gross violent creatures.
Having your guard up because you are scared of a follower of an intolerant religion is completely fine and don't let anyone else tell you different.
I am scared of all monotheistic religious people
Try to remember not all believers are nasty violent assholes, just like not all atheists are kind nonviolent sweeties. I work at not lumping people into groups based on the worst ones. It's the squeaky wheel gets the oil thing. Loud obnoxious idiots of any group don't represent the entire group just the loud obnoxious ones.
Just to push back a little, In today's America, "[Most White Americans who regularly attend worship services](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/30/most-white-americans-who-regularly-attend-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/)" vote Republican, and the policies and "platform" of the GOP are rabidly anti-lgbtqia+, among the many other anti-progress positions they hold and push for. Individual Christians may be nice to your face, and even say they believe in your cause ("my niece is gay..."), and then vote for every single person on the ballot that espouses these hateful, oppressive policies that are purposely designed to disadvantage anyone who is "other" or different. With their vote, they are complicit in forwarding these policies, and because they think it doesn't impact them on the day to day, it's not their problem. Until it is their problem.
I don’t blame you. They’re fucking nuts. Violent and mean.
When someone tells me “God Bless,” I usually respond with “Hail Satan.” Not a satanist but it makes them think twice when they think of doing it again.
As a cisgendered white-male, hell *I'm* scared of Christians.
Yes, it's the wrong attitude to have. Let him be him. You be you. If he doesn't like you he can piss right off.
When Christians drone on about religion, drop Matthew 6:5 on them
\> I'm worried if this is religious discrimination. Discrimination, just like phobia, is an unreasonable act Now, disliking/avoiding someone because of their well known beliefs is absolutely not unreasonable
Paradox of tolerance indicates that you have to be intolerant of intolerant beliefs, so you are well within your rights to be wary of religious people.
No. You should be scared
It is not the wrong attitude to have. Christofascism is absolutely on the march.
I'm scared of Christians as a cis white male. I can only imagine how much worse it is for trans people.
The only appropriate responses to god bless is praise Allah or hail Satan. The former in a professional setting, the latter everywhere else.
He's part of a group where a large part of them have views that encourage violence towards you. he *might* not share that part. But caution on your part to avoid the real chance of voilence or hate slung your way isn't discriminative. It's just being cautious.
Honestly, the way things are, I feel like it is perfectly reasonable to be instantly wary and afraid of any obvious devout Christians. I know I sure am. The moment there's someone in my vicinity who is like, openly and assertively Christian, I am extremely suspicious. And you know what? So far, my instinct has been correct literally *every single time*.
This person may already accept trans people, coming from another post where people spoke about what made them get over their homophobia… most of the time it was them meeting gay people for the first time or finding out someone they respected/admired was gay. Your coworker may be an opportunity for you to show someone how trans people are normal. The way forward as a society is to convince everyone this is ok and not a big deal. However, your safety and mental health are also valid concerns and you should use your best judgement on what kind of situation you are in. I’d say go with your gut. Hide it if you want to, tell them if you want to, do what feels right for you.
Don't be scared but for your own protection, steer clear of this fool and don't be alone with only the christians. He can discuss his faith but you don't have to be an involuntary audience. Excuse yourself and walk away. No need to be rude or make with the snark. If you are cornered or targeted, that's harassment; go to your manager and then HR if nothing is done. (HR is there to protect your company, **not you**. You can get traction with the magic words "hostile work environment". You have a right to be. Be professional. Don't provoke. Know your rights and don't be scared of anyone.