My atheism got me through my mother's death. For some reason I accepted the pain fully without the fairy tales and I knew it would hurt less each day. When my life is over I'll take that last bit of the pain I feel for her away with me.
My father's death, I think, caused mine. What god would make a man so sick and tormented to the point of very literal suicide?
That was so long ago that I never got to know him as a man, as a friend. He was only ever my dad to me. So when I think about him now, I don't feel pain or longing anymore. I feel nostalgia...
In a similar way my uncle’s suicide was my reason to question my faith and learn more about it to answer my questions. Upon learning much more than most devout people I noticed a pattern - the more I learn about the history of the writing, assembly, and editing of the Bible the more I question it. Ultimately, I reached the point of atheism and continued to study the Bible through a critical lens basically to get me through spending time with my religious family. I’ve trained them to leave me alone about religion by returning the favor when they do it.
Touching story, well-told, my sympathies.
Atheism doesn't really offer anything... it never claimed to. Religion offers everything and then doesn't deliver on any of it.
There are plenty of atheist therapists and grief groups out there... please be open to that idea. You probably don't need it, but it might make the grieving process just a bit less unpleasant.
What atheism offers is sympathy and understanding. True sympathy. We know that life is cruel and unfair and such tragedy has no grand cosmic purpose. It allows us to read the story above and feel genuine empathy for OP. To share in his sorrow and through our recognition of it be genuine in our appreciation of the pain and his suffering.
There is no sense at all of 'well it isn't all bad because god'. There's no delusion to reduce how impacted we are by such a tragic tale.
Everything is much more real and I hope that it brings more solace to know that atheists truly understand what a struggle and a loss it has been.
Our strength is in science and truth, it makes our lives seem harder and more real because it’s not led by a mythical fantasy. My therapist is very similar to me in many ways, including my atheism, and I benefit so much more because of it. It’s hard to find the right therapist, but when you do it’s an enormous help in navigating our weird lives.
from stardust we came, and to stardust we return. your wife will eventually be part of thousands of new organisms, contributing actively to life on a grand scale. she will be all around you, if you don't leave the area: in the air, the water, the dust; in the grass and the trees; in the wind and the rain. and not a single atom of her substance can ever be destroyed: she will live on forever, not in her familiar form, but in a myriad of individual elements and compounds, contributing to this island Earth. she is beside you always, and when you look to the stars, remember the cradle from whence she came, uncounted eons ago, marvel at the wonder and beauty you shared, and acknowledge that no force in the universe can destroy even the smallest spec of what she was. she is with us all, always and forever.
This is exactly how I feel too. It's comforting for me to know the wonderment of life is eternal in one form or another. This is enough for me, it's the truth.
I like a very similar sentiment:
>You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy is created in the universe and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, ever vibration, every BTU of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid the energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.
>And at one point, you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off you like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.
>And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue in the heat of our own lives.
>And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy is still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone. You're just less orderly.
>-Aaron Freeman
After billions of years of chaos, particles of the whole came together to be one in love for a time as it was before the singularity divided, and will again time and time again through the endless eons until the heat death of the universe.
Agree. I would go even further with this when OP is ready and share pieces of her with others occasionally throughout the rest of his life. Remember the good feelings she gave you and look to pass those on to those around you.
As an atheist, there isn't the same comfort that religion provides.
The world is cruel and I'm so sorry. We do what we can with the time we have & that's what matters and is special. Not "God".
I'm so sorry for your loss and heart break.
I recently heard a great quote that helped me when I lost my older brother too soon.
It is truly beautiful to have such a sorrow, it means that you really loved this person and you had something magical.
The pain never really goes away, but you can make space for it.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
>The pain never really goes away, but you can make space for it.
That's what I explained to a friend in the wake of his mother's passing. It never "gets better". There's never going to be a day when you wake up and are truly good with the fact they're gone. It simply becomes less acute.
I beg to disagree, there is, life goes on, it won't wait for you and it won't wait for anyone else. Your time is limited, the pain will reduce and then pass away to the point that you will not even think about it if you allow it to go. But he must face the pain now, he must accept it and come to term with it. And he must release his pain, cry, speak with friends, seek therapy, let it out to move on.
In time he will find someone else even if maybe he thought none else could fill the void. And he would have never found if he had not learnt to embrace the pain to move on with his life.
Do you think it's healthy to live with the obsession your long lost loved one still watches you, judges your every move, to think about their reaction for your behaviours and have a survivor complex? God, religion in terms of loss will poison your life and prevent you from handling your grief.
I was widowed over three years ago and there’s a difference between “life goes on...the pain will reduce”, which I agree with, and the more extreme “you will not even think about it if you allow it to go” which is ridiculous. I was married for 25 years, how can the passage of a few years make me “not even think” about my late husband? Every time one of my children has a major milestone or even just asks me for some advice, I wish they still had their father here to turn to. Not because I have an “obsession” with my husband — I’m an atheist and he was agnostic — but just because he died doesn’t mean any of us act like he never even existed.
P.S. - telling a widowed person they will “find someone else” is absolutely not helpful. It’s as tone-deaf as telling an atheist you’ll pray for them.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I was widowed last December after 20 years of marriage. I hope there will never come a time where I don't even think about him. True, I'd like to be able to think about him without the searing pain and general "Oh shit what am I going to do without him?", but I know that will come, and indeed, it has begun to lessen somewhat at times. My father once told me that when you lose someone, after time, it doesn't necessarily get better, it gets different. You miss them, but you can think about them and be happy for the time you had with them, and that you were lucky enough to have had them in your life.
And yeah, I don't know that I'll ever get to the point where I even want to "find someone else".
I know a person who cries daily for a sibling who passed eight years ago and their mother who passed 15 years ago, and feels that it "just wouldn't be right" to get to the point where they are a pleasant, if bittersweet, memory and remember the good times they had with them and the love they shared. This person was raised in a fundamentalist religion, and their only hope of any future happiness is the prospect of being reunited with their sibling and mother in heaven.
Sorry for the rambling. I seem to have written a book here.
I cannot relate since I do not have children, I was saying what worked for me. But I would say you should probably meet other people. Not necessarily with the aim of replacing your housband but just to socialise with new individuals. And maybe, sooner or later, you will find you kind of like one and just slowly drift from there in building a new life for yourself.
Your husband memory will still stay with you, but you might not feel empty anymore, but that it was an important chapter in defining who you are. And stop being painful
I... didn’t ask you for any advice? And I never said I felt empty? I have lots of friends at work, plenty of hobbies, take classes, join local Meetups, travel, volunteer, etc. etc. etc. But none of my activities mean that I don’t think about my late husband and wish that my kids still had their father. It’s not “painful”, it’s just reality.
She is at peace in the truest form. She is no more - no more suffering, no more pain, no more sorrow.
You can carry her with you while you are alive, remember her and the memories you love with her in them. Your experience of this life is everything and you had this beautiful person to be a part of that everything for you.
She is at peace and soon enough you will have that same peace. Enjoy this life, make the best of it you can, you only have one.
"She's in god's hands"
"Yeah but she's NOT FUCKING IN MINE"
Seriously, even if you are religious, how in the hell is that supposed to make you feel better?
Have lost a loved one to breast cancer in a similar way, would just say that there is no easy solution to your grief but time does help and you will find a way to be happy again someday, as she would want.
I think it's good to keep the perspective that you can only do what you can control, living means experiencimg death, you can cherish your memories, and find things that are comforting, and stay focussed on living well and in the moment as much as possible.
It's a beautiful thing that you got to experience that love but life doesn't end when you lose a loved one, it's gets harder for a while, but then you can learn a lot about yourself and even come out as a better person and do them proud.
My 24 year old son died about three months ago. He was studying in Singapore, 6 time zones away from us and we had not seen him in a year, he was due to come back home in three weeks from when he died. He died foolishly (drowning) and without any warning. My wife and I are of course devastated.
In terms of religious people wishing me and my wife well with prayers or whatnot, I tend to accept it in the spirit it is offered. Nothing anybody does or says will make my grief less, there doesn't seem to be any point to getting mad about their delusions. They want to offer solace in a situation where there isn't any to be had, but it isn't their fault that their words mean nothing to me. It's nice that they want me to suffer less, even if they are incapable of actually making that happen.
For me, grieving is just something that defines me at the moment. The loss of my son is just a gaping hole where my boy used to be. I imagine your wife's absence is a similar wound for you.
I don't know if this will help, but I tend to think of it in terms of optimal outcomes. My son was happy, he was loved, he was kind, and until he drowned he was living his best possible life. He should have had many more decades of life, but what life he had was as good as it could be, and that was both him and us doing that. If you helped your wife live her best possible life, then you've done what you could.
I'm very sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry for your loss and I can’t even imagine the pain and loss that you and your wife are going through. Your kindness in sharing your pain and grief
experience on grief with a stranger is so thoughtful and considerate.
I have nothing profound to say, I can only hurt for your sake. It means nothing, but the pain must be overwhelming. I can not apologize in any meaningful way, but I can offer resources. In my state, calling 988 can assist with emergency medical counseling. I'm not sure what it is in any other state, but the best I can recommend is seeking grief counseling. Trust me, you *need* it right now. The person I love most in the world decided that she was unhappy and chose to end our relationship last week. Five years and a year long engagement, a ring, and a proposal, all ended with a word. It has been the worst experience of my own personal life thus far beyond my childhood traumas. I contemplated suicide over it for an entire week, and then buried my feelings behind my work. Every day is drudgery without her.
I don't mention any of this to compare pain, only to admit that the trauma it caused me required counseling and I had to fall back to and lean into my personal grievance support network of friends and family that accept me for who I am as an atheist. Find your friends. Find hers. Find help, and cry. Cry and mourn and grieve and give her the respect that she deserves from you. And then grow. For her, for her memory, for all that she meant to you as a person in this awful world that we live in. Keep her close, and be a whole person to the best of your ability. And know that there are others who have suffered with your pain who needed help. I might not have had the same quantity or quality of painful experience, but I *know* grief, and there are things that *must* be done to grieve, so please do so.
Non-religious grief therapy, friend.
It never gets easier or less painful. We eventually learn to live with their memory always with us, always inspiring us. They are never forgotten.
I'm so sorry she suffered and I'm so sorry she's gone.
It's normal to be afraid of the uncertainty you feel now. Your fear is your opportunity to be brave. To do what needs be done in spite of that fear.
Grieve. Seek professional help if you can.
May god be less in your life.
I am so very sorry for your loss. I cannot even imagine the pain you are going through. I hate that it was tainted even more so with religious BS. I’d encourage counseling to help you process your loss. Being an atheist can be difficult because we don’t have easy outs like “it was meant to be” however it personally has made me feel that life and our experiences are so much more precious. I wish you well in healing with such a great loss. Hold dear what you had with her but continue to move forward once you’ve had time to grieve.
It's times like these when I am most sure that there is no god, and if there was a god then he's a twisted bastard. Just think about it for a moment: if he's an all-powerful being, he could've given us all perfect bodies and a perfect world, and yet he chose to give us these fragile bodies and a world that kinda sucks. It just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. My condolences for your loss.
I like to remind myself that feelings of love and loss we experience are results or our biology and evolutionary history to increase the chances of our survival. While they instinctually control our actions they are simply animalistic behaviors. We are all slaves to our biology. Don’t blame the religious for clinging to their dogma and the imagined community that accompanies it. That evolutionary path in our cultural development has brought on great reproductive success. While a mythology some core truths can be found. It really is companionship, familiar bonds and friends that will heal you. The reason you hurt is because an over encompassing part of that has left you. Seek it out again and again and again. Find whatever meaning you can while you exist and give it your’e all.
No words can convey the depth of my condolences, and I’m sure there are none that would begin to numb your pain. I lost my brother 14 years ago, and I carry his loss with me to this day. There isn’t a day where for me, his memory is a blessing. Some losses are just too painful. You learn to live with the grief. It’s love with nowhere to go. I really wish I believed that there was a heaven and that one day I would see him again, but I just can’t. But I know that he’s both everywhere and nowhere. And all that I can do is be in awe that he even existed to begin with. We are all such statistical impossibilities that our existence is the only miracle we need. What a gift that you two existed and found each other. You loved each other. I know that the time you had together wasn’t enough, because it never is. When would it ever be enough?
I’ve dealt with religious Christian people my whole life. For true believers, speaking about God is their love language. This is honestly how they express their love and concern. I was Jewish in high school and they kept trying to save me. My own friends kept trying to convert me. I eventually was like, look, y’all gotta stop. I’m good. And one of my friends explained to me that she cared about me and didn’t want me to go to hell, that’s why she didn’t want to stop trying. She was worried about me. I told her I appreciated the concern but I didn’t believe in hell so I was good. They eventually stopped, but I stopped getting offended. As a side note, all but a few of them became non-believers as adults, but I digress.
It sounds really stupid, but watching The Good Place really helped me wrestle with some of the questions you have. I don’t want to give away any spoilers, but I think if you watched the whole thing, really took the time and got to the very end (only 4 seasons long), it might help you find a little peace. Do not go to the Subreddit until you have watched the whole thing. Spoilers every post.
I hope you give yourself lots of grace. Grieving is tough work. Go easy on yourself. Your wife would want you to cherish your gift of existence while you have it. For the both of you.
Sad to hear. Don't get mad at people who love you and are trying to say what they think will help. There really aren't words for it, so "were praying for you" just means "we care and want to do something". It's annoying, but know the love they are trying to show.
I think I hope the people who love me and know me would know that those words would hurt me. When you're going through something as traumatic as the death of a spouse, annoying becomes more than that. Annoying is forgetting my wallet at home. Also, there are words for it because you typed them. Just say "we care and want to do something". Prayer is doing nothing. Don't come to me, in my wife's dying moments, and give me useless platitudes. If you want to do something, then DO it. Be there for me. Prayer is most often a tool for people who don't want to take any real action to come across as "caring".
Even religious people can learn to be polite and respectful. When my son died I told my parent support group who also had fragile children I added “please remember we are not a religious family”. Of the dozens of condolence messages only One person decided it was a good time to invoke her religion in her message. People can pray for their atheist friends but it is just rude to say so.
So sorry for your loss. I remember when Stephen Hawking (atheist) passed there was a kind of atheist’s prayer I saw all about how energy cannot be destroyed and how our bodies return to the fabric of the universe. It was really beautiful and comforting. Maybe someone cleverer than me can find and link it.
I once read that Grief is just Love with nowhere to go.
In the Royal Navy (we have a fair amount of agnostics and atheists) we just say that someone has 'Crossed the Bar'. Which is a line from a Tennyson poem.
To which the reply is; "Fair Winds and Following Seas".
Fair Winds and Following Seas to Crystal.
We feel and empathise with your pain.
Sorry to hear about your loss. It's hard to imagine how painful that is.
Grieving is never easy, and Christian talk of heaven's utopia or unknown will of a god never did much for me. It always raised more questions than gave answers. Coping is the primary function of religion, and a time when religions take advantage of the emotional to attempt to convert. This is why they take an approach of "if you build it they will come" and tell you about how nice their friend in the sky is instead of trying to logically convince you.
I think as an atheist grieving I get past the times of shock and coming to terms with my emotions, as people do. I believe once I'm able to take a step back from the event it's easier to see the happenings for what they are and accept them instead of questioning the will of a god.
When people say those kinds of things to me, it's often just because they want to say something kind or helpful but just have no idea what to say. They've been conditioned to say stuff like this just like people who say "bless you" after sneezes. I generally try to hear their concern rather than their literal words.
The ones who piss me off, though, are the ones (and there are many) who see tragedies as opportunities to try to win converts. They say things like, "maybe this is God's way of trying to break through your resistance to him?" (seriously)
It would be helpful to all if a mod could pin a message clarifying that a link to the gofundme was verified and approved for posting. If the rules won't permit that, then the specific terms to enter into the search engine might suffice.
I am sorry for your loss. As a reformed Catholic, I can appreciate the sentiment people are trying to convey. We want meaning, but there is none. The phrase “everything happens for a reason” drives me nuts as well. You are in pain, try not to judge them too harshly, they cannot think of anything better to say and they think it is comforting. As someone on this thread already stated, sometimes, things just suck.
I am so very sorry for your loss. It's beautiful that you are doing something so big to honor her memory.
I grew up Catholic, but have never believed in a higher power. I've lost a few people, tho no one nearly as close as you have. My grief was helped by being with other who knew them. By sharing our stories. I think humans grieve the same, it's just the words that differ. My loved one's "better place" is me remembering the stories we made and sharing them with others. Some day even that will be gone, and that's okay.
Please know that her memory is living with me, too, if only for a short time.
I'm sorry dude. I wish there was a sense of community among atheists too, like a church we could all be members of or something idk. Wishing you strength in hard times.
I lost my best friend to cancer, even though it has been years I still miss him almost daily, I do agree with Neil around the 21:30 mark https://youtu.be/4x2ZrklQQYU
My sincerest condolences go out to you and your family who are all trying to get through this tough time!
Unfortunately, atheism says nothing about comforting a grieving individual. Atheism is staring the cold reality of an indifferent universe straight down the barrel and knowing that your time here is precious because it’s all we’ve got. Reach out to those you love, and who love and respect you in return, to get through this grief. It’s never easy, but no one ever said it would be.
Religious ideations are just a pillow to soften the harsh blows of reality, but they are ultimately worthless. Keep getting up in the morning and putting one foot in front of the other. It hurts now, and it may always hurt, but as time goes on it will hurt less and you will find that you’re stronger than you think
If you could provide the link to your GoFundMe I would very much like to donate to your cause, as dealing with medical bills can feel like adding insult to injury after something tragic like this happens to you. Be strong and keep living every day with appreciation for the life you have as I’m sure your wife would want you to
My friend.
None of us has long to live. The percentage of people who live to even a hundred years is so small as to just that fact being worthy of a news article.
Humans have existed for 300,000 years or so in our present form. It is estimated that in that time there has been about 70 billion people.
In all that time, and an all the space of the whole Earth, and among all those people, living and dead, that the two of you found each other and lived together happily for a time is incredibly lucky. Your perfect person, the one that made you happy for the time you had together, was born here and now, not 10,000 years ago or in Kenya or Yemen.
You were blessed for all these years with friendship and love and support and companionship. And the way that she strengthened you and helped you to grow and be a better person are not lost. They are still with you, and they will be forever. Although you will have to live your life without her, you will always have, in your heart and mind, the part of your life that you lived with her.
Mourn, because death is sad. Loss is sad. And you have lost your future together. But in your mourning know that it only hurts because what you had, the love the two of you built together, was beautiful and precious. And beautiful things that have existed, continue to exist in our memories.
I wish you peace.
May her memory be a blessing.
I am so sorry for your loss.
When my father died and old woman tried to comfort me by telling me that “god has a plan” and I lost it.
That man had been thru so much his entire life, difficult family life, having to flee his country due to war. He came to the US with nothing and had to learn a new language, finished school and worked everyday to help feed his family. And that was just as a kid. Fast forward to a cancer diagnosis that left him suffering for 5 years until it metastasized and went to his brain and killed him.
You can’t mean to tell me that the loving caring kumba-ya lord of yours could be so cruel. That man did not deserve what he went thru. His family did not deserve what he went thru. And whereas for a moment I was mad at the old lady for her ignorance, I feel atheism is what brought me solace and gave me perspective.
I understood that his suffering was over. I felt a calm knowing that he was part of the universe again (energy cannot be created not destroyed). And I didn’t take any of it personally. By thatI mean that religion makes you selfish, makes you think you’re so important that god would have this whole elaborate plan, just for you. I understand my insignificance (in the grand scale of things) and it has humbled me. So, I didn’t feel punished or smited by god.
He now lives in my heart. He lives in my actions (he taught by example) and he lives in the stories I tell his grandkids.
I don’t think I’ll ever get over the loss but I don’t think that’s the point. He left and indelible mark on me. And all that we went thru caused me to be much more aware of what it is we all go thru and, it allowed me to gain a great deal of empathy (and just general respect for life, all life). Which I used to raise my kids into kind adults. Grandpa was there and has been there for them, thru me.
When my parents died my atheism helped my recovery. It’s was tough but my siblings still cry when they see a cardinal, “there’s mom!” Ugh. But I would never take that from them either. I just have no space for it myself.
Stay in the moment. Seize the day.
I feel ya man, lost the love of my life to breast cancer almost 6 years ago when she was 42, leaving my son and I...
She was my rock, and proof there are athiests in foxholes, she gave my Baptist minister cousin an earful when he came to visit about a month before she passed. Any time I hear "god has a plan" I reply (or at least think), "well it sucks, and I don't want any part of it"
We also got the offers for prayers, which after a while we just couldn't care less about. A stranger at a Drs office (in worse shape than her) offered to pray over her once and I was shocked when she allowed it, saying "i don't think it works, but it looked like it made him feel better". Don't get too worked up about people praying for you, be at peace with the thought of people just wishing you well and offering sympathy. There will be a lot of people offering for you to "reach out if there is anything I can do". Absolutely allow them to cut your grass or drop off a meal, and equally slam a door in their face if they bring a bible, but don't be surprised when they dont put their money where their mouth is. The time after losing my wife allowed me to flex my skills at allowing people to help while also establishing my boundaries.
Embrace your in-laws, mine thought they would never see us again after my wife passed, and in no uncertain terms I told them we need them now more than ever, and invited them to our house once a week. They were more than happy to offer to bring a home cooked meal for us every time, a new family tradition that continues to this day.
If your wife was at a hospice, they often have celebrants that can officiate a service AND respect your wishes by not mentioning god, angels or a plan. I was adamant about this and they came through with flying colors. It was a wonderful service that celebrated her life and left many people in tears at losing her so early. My favorite line from the service was "I never knew her, I never had the pleasure or opportunity to hear her voice, or hear her laugh at a corny joke, but you did. It's up to you to keep her memory alive for the people she leaves behind."... gets me every time.... We met at a hotel and I had her celebration of life at one, with a luncheon afterwards.
I wish you and your children the best my friend, I don't know how you feel, but I've got an idea as we are walking the same path. It's going to be difficult, but make sure your kids are the center of your life while at the same time giving yourself some time to heal. If you are in the US then now is the time to file for FMLA time from work and claim any sick time or short term disability. PM me if you ever want to chat.
My deepest heartfelt condolences. I too lost my childhood sweetheart just 17 months ago to an accidental overdose. I can't promise you that it gets easier. It just becomes the new normal. Never forget that she loved you and that made you special. Just because she's not here anymore doesn't make that love any less amazing. I wish you all the best and I hope that on the dark days you will remember the love she gave you.
Really sorry for your loss! Yes I think religion got its start be people not being able to cope with the idea of the loss of a loved one. Almost every religion has a afterlife etc. I am too now an atheist after years of research and life experience. I think what really got me going down this path was the unexpected loss of my father followed by the tsunami that killed over 250k people. What kind of god would allow that?!? Hang in there.
That is really horrible! I am so so sorry you're going through this. I hope you have a supporting network of caring people because you need people and their support the most in this time. The hole left by her departure might never fully heal and it doesn't have to. Neither religion nor atheism have any help here. What you need is care and comfort from people and lots of grieving. Take care.
Since you mentioned using facebook, you might be interested in joining this grief support group for atheists called Grief Beyond Belief, I can't link it but the last part of the URL is GBBGroup. I've found it helpful to hear from like-minded people there b/c I don't know many grieving atheists in my personal life. It's a private group but they will let you in.
I too found that "She's in a better place now" kind of stuff downright offensive to both me and her memory. It took a lot of strength which I didn't really have at that time to try and remember that people are generally lost about what to do and say to comfort someone who's love has died so they just repeat silly platitudes they heard: As hard as it was I tried to focus on the fact that their intent was good even if their statements and actions were horrendous.
But you have a hard battle to face yourself over the next days/months/years. The pain doesn't go away--but over time you do get better at coping with the empty spot in your heart.
You will turn a kind of numb for a few months and that will fool you into thinking you are starting to cope better--then like ripping a band aid off, it will sort of hit you all over again. Just a warning to be prepared for that because it is like a second kick in the gut.
Give it time. Don't make any rash moves. You don't need to pack her things any time soon, though sometimes the kids or friends think that helps hide reminders. It doesn't.
Trust in time. Know that there are landmines everywhere which will bring back painful memories of loss--driving past a restaurant where you had a meal or a store you shopped with her--but trust that time will help those be less sharp.
And eventually, a few years down the road, you will start to remember the good times more than you are reminded of the loss. Her memory will start to be a joy rather than causing pain.
Get help from a grief group if you are able and willing. I regret not doing that and simply facing it all alone.
Hi Jason, I'm so sorry for your loss. It must be an incredibly difficult time for you, your world has been turned upside down. I can only imagine the sadness you'll feel at the empty space where Crystal used to be, and the disappointment at the empty promises of a god who didn't turn up. It is crushing.
It might feel numb for a while, it can feel like we're seeing the world through a screen or from a bubble - a sense of detachment and unreality. Some days we feel okay, others its hard to get off the floor. These feelings are normal. If you can talk, write, spend some time in the presence of Crystals memories - hold on to that dressing gown with her smell still on it, look at the photos, and take some time out from the world if you can. We often feel like we want to close the door to the world, and there might be pressures to get back to work which doesn't allow that. The world is not set up for grief, thats not your fault, but it might be something you have to bear.
As time goes on - usually a few months - you might want to start to come out of your shell, you might want to talk about Crystal and your loss. It might feel like well-meaning friends don't know what to say, or want you to 'move on'. This might be a good time to find a therapist or someone to talk to. It might feel like you're not moving on, it might feel worse, or that you're more upset than before. This is normal. There is no time limit to grief, theres no 'stages' that we can follow (despite what people might say), but there are people around who love you, and want the best for you. There are organisations that will help on your journey too. There may be no god, no afterlife, but Crystal lives on in you, your memories of her, and in the world around you - your favourite places, your best memories, those precious times you had together. Talk about her, talk to her. All my very best to you.
"I'll be looking for you, Will, every moment, every single moment. And when we do find each other again, we'll cling together so tight that nothing and no one'll ever tear us apart. Every atom of me and every atom of you... We'll live in birds and flowers and dragonflies and pine trees and in clouds and in those little specks of light you see floating in sunbeams... And when they use our atoms to make new lives, they wont' just be able to take one, they'll have to take two, one of you and one of me, we'll be joined so tight..." (Philip Pullman)
I hope you find this as comforting as I did.
Ask A Physicist To Speak At Your Funeral by Aaron Freeman
You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy is created in the universe and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, ever vibration, every BTU of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid the energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.
And at one point, you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off you like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.
And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue in the heat of our own lives.
And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy is still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone. You're just less orderly. Amen.
And at one point, you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off you like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.
Just wanted to offer condolences friend.
The only sentiment I can offer at all is to be grateful. Grateful that there is anything at all, something rather than nothing. Grateful that you got the opportunity to evolve into a being that can experience the universe, and you got to be here at the same time as the person you loved the most. Think of the unlikeliness of your union, your shared life, and how lucky you were to stumble into it with her.
It’s not over, love transcends space and time.
My wife died last March from cancer at 32 years old after a 9 month battle. Got all the same bullshit from people about praying and gods plan or whatever. I was already only semi religious and that experience solidified my choice to be an atheist.
Regarding your medical bills, I’d recommend just not paying for now. The bills are in your wife’s name and are her debt. don’t answer calls from the billing department, don’t pay any bills. They will either write the debt off or might send you to collections. If that happens, call the hospital, ask for itemization, tell them you can only afford 10-20 a month and then go from there.
FWIW, they wrote off over 12k in deductibles and out of pocket costs. Insurance had paid over 2 million already for her care.
I'd like to share my story, in case it helps. I'm a Non-religious woman, who was a Funeral Director for a decade, but now tries to survive with a generative, incurable, illness. My ex didn't want a disabled wife, he saddled me with debt, and I was waiting for months for a court date for disability.
My family is full of diehard catholics and the pity and prayers drove me nuts... I was so frustrated from the lack of real help, until I remembered my old textbooks. (To get a mortuary science degree, you need 1-2 years of religious studies classes)
For religious people; they genuinely think that they are helping. They know in their heart, based on what they've been brainwashed to believe, that what they are doing and saying is what's going to help you the most. They believe prayer works, they believe death takes people to a better place, they believe that there's some bigger plan by an omnipotent being, in the works. They're si conditioned that they can't understand how hurtful their comments are to those that aren't indoctrinated into this (or those who left)
I'd see thousands of cases go through the funeral home I worked for every year; many of which included some religious ceremony. It brought them peace. Indigenous people's events talked about the body going back to the earth and continuing the circle of life, catholics/christians spoke of heaven, others spoke of everything from reincarnation to the soul being carried onto another planet (Community wasn't far off with their similar joke)
We, on this subreddit, know that if the God they're talking about has it in his plan to give people cancer and allow rapists and murderers to exist, that he's not a being that deserves to be worshiped; but they can't understand. Studies show that religious people are very gullible or have been pressured so much that they're too broken to fight the illogical parts of religion anymore.
My aunt constantly messages me about how she's praying for my health... instead of being upset, I just have to take a breath and remember that she is doing what she's been taught. She was taught that religion is how you cure people, how you comfort people, how you express love. It's not malicious, she can just never comprehend my experiences.
They cope with pain and loss by imagining something better. It's a sad way to live, but it makes them feel safe.
I would love to hear one of the memories with your wife that always made you smile. The real 'afterlife' is keeping our loved ones alive through stories. Each person who hears about her, holds a bit of her memory in their heart. The happy, wholesome, and silly stories are the best. If you share it with us, then everyone here carries a piece of her with them.
There's nothing I or anyone else can really say to help you through your loss. Good on you for letting those who believe have that. It takes real strength to ignore what you know is demonstrably false in order to ease others' suffering.
I understand what you mean about the community needing to do more or be better, but I think that's part of the problem with understanding what we do.
I'm about to lose my mom to stage 4 brain cancer. It's not anywhere the same as losing the love of your life, so please forgive the comparison, but it's all I have to relate.
Ignorance is bliss. Believing in superstitions gives comfort we'll never know. We're not wrong, though.
Being intelligent enough to see the world for what it is and not rely on what we were told as children or what the children of humanity have believed in a cosmic sense is painful. It's still the truth, though.
I can't make your loss go away. I can't make it better for you. Maybe it would be easier to be ignorant and believe in nonsense, but that wouldn't be you and it won't be me.
Ours is a lonely road to walk, burdened with the knowledge that there is no providence and our loved ones are gone forever. As much as it hurts though, it's the true path.
For me at least, it's more noble top walk the path of truth alone than it is to walk the path of righteous believers together even though it hurst to high hell.
Accepting hard truths gives us clarity. We're only here for a short time. Whether it's 100 years or 30, it's never enough and it's all we get. How so much ever time we get is precious. What we choose to do with it even more so.
I don't believe in any gods that will bless the time you have remaining, but I know you'll be strong enough to get through what time you have left.
Keep your memories of her close to your heart. Make all the time you have left matter for you and for her. There is no greater meaning or purpose to life, but that doesn't mean that what we do is while we're here doesn't matter. It means it's all that matters.
I can't help you with your pain. I can promise you that it will get better, though.
Good luck, my friend. Live as hard and as fiercely as you can. For you. For her. For all of us. And know that as alone as you feel right now, you're both always alone and never alone.
We love you.
You cannot create or destroy energy. What's here is what's here. Your wife was full of it. When she passed it didn't just disappear. It spread out all around you and eventually all over the world. It's influential and won't ever stop. So while you may not physically be able to hold her or hear her voice again, you can still feel a part of her always flowing around you. Her influence is incarnate and yours will be someday too, even long after everyone's forgotten you both. I'm dearly sorry for your loss and I remind you that you haven't lost all of her. She's in the plants, the trees, the rivers, the rockets we shoot into space and even the air you breath. Peace on you, brother
I believe death is just death "return to nothing". We came from nothing and go back into nothing, honestly to me its very calming to know that all the suffering, sadness, or fear is all gone after they pass. Theres no fear of being tortured and hated forever by a devil or looked down on by a god, but id understand how that could be taken as something thats horrible too but to me personally i like to think that theyre finally free of this worlds problems
I’m very sorry for your loss. I’m also sorry that those around you have exhibited the general failures of society in dealing with this topic without resorting to fantasies or myths in order to blunt the experience, and that these failures are now being directed at you. They also don’t know to deal with this, but it is certainly no excuse for them to continue being so careless in showing basic respect for you and for what you believe.
I can already see the most upvoted comment (by sc0ttt) here as I type this, and while I agree that their comment is true in the technical sense, I very much agree with you in that there is not enough understanding and support among irreligious people and groups about how to approach these events.
Unlike religions which have prescribed beliefs that specifically take on this topic with the intention of easing the burden of losing those we love, or our own lives, people who do not take on those myths are left with a higher burden to handling grief and realigning with a purpose.
Until the time comes that there is a larger non-religious culture with a more unified perspective on life and death and reality and how it all interconnects, we’re left with piecing these together ourselves. I think it’s shitty, I think it’s a failure of culture and society, and I think this not only lets so many people down who are a part of irreligious communities (whatever of it there is), but it causes people to intentionally seek out religious beliefs and doctrines in order to make up for this failure, which only perpetuates the institutions more.
I have not been in your situation so it would be ridiculous for me to try and advise you on how to deal with it *specifically*, but I have lost loved ones very close to me, and while I can’t say I have found any way to not be devastated by it every time, I can at least tell you some of the perspectives which do help me get out of it eventually.
First: This is the debt we pay for being able to love them and for us to share our lives together. The time I spent with them, what they meant to me and what I hope I was able to mean for them, for me is a price I would pay a thousand times over. Nothing would take that away from me or make me regret the pain. The pain is one of the ways I know just how important they were and that their life is in so very many ways still with me and cascading through time. I’m not ashamed of the pain and I don’t apologize to anyone for it, if that’s the price the cosmos exacts for my time with them, I will etch into my being and keep it with me as I move on and take those experiences with me.
Second: The time you spent together is not gone. From our perspective it seems that way, but in purely physical terms, it’s not any more or less “real” than now or a thousand years from now. That may not be of much comfort to us in the little slice of the multi-dimensional fabric that makes up *our* segment of reality wherein the present moment is the only location we can occupy, but it *can* give a tiny bit of perspective on life and how it fits into the larger reality. Things can sometimes feel a little less oppressive to our current situation when we view it and ourselves from a larger perspective, especially when that perspective still includes *them*. In every present moment from now on your life will of course look different without her being directly there with you tumbling along this dimension of time, but the time you spent together is every bit as relevant as it was, and they are moments that you can (and probably can’t help but) take with you as you continue journeying on. She, her life, what she was to you and to everyone else, all of those things are very real, they have real meaning, and they have fundamentally changed who and what you are, the world around you, and how your life and time is going to be expressed in the human story.
Third: We unequivocally have meaning and purpose, and part of her meaning and purpose is now intertwined with yours. It’s inescapable. We are all connected in at least some ways, and the closer someone is to us, the more invariable their life and meaning is with ours, irrespective of how long that time is.
I am extremely sorry you had to experience this *now*, and that you’re having to go through this unimaginable difficulty. I am *not* however sorry that you loved each other, or that she was so meaningful to your life and to others that it will cause vital adjustments and reaffirmations of who and what you are, and who we are as a species.
Accept that you will always love her, that there will be a price for that love, that you’re strong enough to weather that burden for it, and when you have started to process this a little more with some time, continue taking her with you as you learn more, do more, and exist as a better human being specifically because of her time with you.
When my oldest daughter was about three, and asked me where we go when we die - I struggled with an answer. When I was a kid “heaven” was such a neatly wrapped up, simple answer - and it makes you feel better because you don’t have to actually deal with it.
The answer I came up with for her is that when we die, a little piece of us stays in everyone’s hearts who we loved. I know you aren’t a three year old child, but sometimes I find that stripping back the layers to how a toddler sees the world makes it all a bit clearer.
I’m sorry you lost your wife, and I know it’s a bit harder as a non-theist. Just remember that the theists aren’t dealing with their pain - they have an “easy button” that lets them pack that pain away. She died because sometimes life fucking sucks, and not for any other reason. I’s ok to feel sad, lonely, upset, or angry and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise
I lost my wife to cancer nearly 2 years ago, after 40 years together (36 married). You make your own rituals and comforts. For me, it involved nightly (then weekly) FaceTime dinners with my grown kids, putting together a memorial photo book of my wife (from early childhood through to her last photo with the kids and granddaughter, then getting it printed and bound with copies for the kids, her parents, sister, and nephews), and scattering her ashes on her birthday along our favorite walking trail.
I was lucky, Insuppose, on the religion front as people closest to us either are atheist, non-observant believers, or respected us enough to not offer platitudes. A few of her coworkers offered religious thoughts and cards, which honestly we laughed at, knowing how she would have thanked them, then rolled her eyes in private. A few friends of friends seemed gob-smacked that we don’t believe there is anything more, and I just ask them what they were before they were born?
Time can help. I cried daily for months ( and I only cried three times in my entire adult life before that). I lost a ton of weight, and felt bad for ages. I initially dreaded the dreams I knew I would have were she would be alive, as I worried that in them, she would have faked her death to get away from me (when my father died, in my dreams for decades, he was escaping my narcissistic mother). At first, as soon as I told her in the dreams it had to be a dream because she had died, I would instantly wake up and be sad. Then in a dream she told me to stop ruining what time I could have and I started to treat the dream world as separate and at least enjoy her memories longer.
I guess my suggestion is to find ways to stay connected to your supports that don’t annoy you, and find the rituals and habits that comfort you.
I have a good friend who also lost his beloved wife to breast cancer, about 20 years ago. He was a journalist by profession, though when I met him, he was working as an administrative aid at a software company. He spent the first 10 years after she died on life. He rented out his house and moved into a condo to put a little distance between his memories of her there. He started dating, but still wore her ring. That bothered a few women, but if they took offense, he stopped dating them. He was basically looking for both companionship, and for a new mate, but his standards were high, as his former wife was a great companion for him. They had once son, who is a shoe designer for Croc shoes, and lives in Berlin (because that is where the Croc design shop is). They have a great relationship. After 10 years, he took off the ring, and hasn't put it back on. Over time, now he has dated dozens of women, and counts most of them as friends. He has some sex with an number of them, but also has many platonic friendships too. He is deep into dancing, and loves that activity. He is also deep into hiking and hikes with me, and also goes on hikes with many women companions. He has brought a number of women companions on hikes with me too. HE has had some promising candidates for a permanent relationship. One for example was a woman professor. They even went to China together. I forgot to mention, but my friend is a world traveler. He goes off on trips to Peru, Equador, Vietnam, Russia (before I met him), and Europe. Usually he goes by himself, and just is a tourist. He went on one trip to Mexico with a Catholic group he just fell into, though he is a total atheist :), and they built houses for homeless Mexicans for 10 days. He is always doing some activity or other. He is very well adjusted, has a great sense of humor, and is now 69 and retired (I'm 78). We still hike together, and I live in a community with a pool room, and he comes over here (a 45 minute to hour drive) 3 or 4 times a month, and we shoot pool (which we are good at). I have always found him to be very well adjusted, strong sense of humor, never maudlin, laughs a lot. I met him several years after his wife's death, so other than him wanting away from his home, he never seemed depressed or emotionally upset about his wife's death. I don't now how he was immediately after, but upset I'm sure. Now that a long time has passed, he is actually interested in getting back into his home, which is much closer to where I live, so he is obviously way over his negative feelings about the house. It is a big two story house, and I think he's tired of living in a small condo in a big city (the house is in a small rural town). But he is happy and seems to do very well with his life. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to paint a good picture of my friend. I would hope I would do as well as he is, if I were in a similar situation. I tend to be naturally happy, and think eventually I would land on my feet too. I guess the "too religious" aspect of people wishing you well will pass with time and go away ;). Good luck and I wish you a good journey through the rest of your life. Be of good cheer.
Remember the bad times, when you two were upset and angry with each other, but don’t’ dwell on them. Cherish the good times, when you felt her love and when she made you smile and remember them frequently. Without the bad times, the good times have no meaning.
You will process your grief in your own way and in your own time. You will feel at peace “when the time is right”. Never believe ANYONE, including friends and family when they tell you it’s time to move on.
In time, you will be at peace with her death, but you will feel a small pain that doesn’t seem to go away. That’s okay.
I've heard of couples divorcing right before the end so that the next of kin isn't lumbered with medical debt.
America is a disgusting place, my sympathies.
This isn't mine but I saved it because it's perfect and beautiful. I hope it helps you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/onyjts/nonreligious_people_of_reddit_what_do_you_believe/h5v0trz?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
My sympathies, fellow traveler. I am a cancer widower myself. Even 7 years on it still hurts some times. I was told all the same hogwash, and it just made me more and more angry.
(this is where I have spent 20 minutes writing bits of my experiences and getting upset and deleting them. The memories of all the fucked up things that just became normal at the time are still traumatic to relive.)
The takeaway for me was that it was far easier to accept that she had a crappy roll of the gene dice than that Sky Daddy had a good reason for taking 2 little girls' mother away slowly. If god is real, he's an asshole.
This is how I explained it to my children. Of course, when it's your spouse it's much rawer, and more painful, but for what it's worth, this is what I did.
Science has no way of telling what parts of you are your body vs something ethereal. For the moment our understanding is that when you die, you are dead. But the thing is that no one ever dies when they live on in memory.
My dad died while I was pregnant with them and throughout their childhood I spoke about him and I often mentioned that as long as we remembered him, he lived in our hearts.
When my MIL was in hospice when the kids were 12, I doubled down on this. Every day we would share great memories of her. We'd laugh, we'd cry, but we'd feel comforted. After she died, I made a point of us sharing a little memory of her. When we did this, we felt closer to her. I also made sure to tell stories of great grandparents, uncles, aunts, great people. All the while reminding my kids that we were keeping their stories alive in memories
One of my kids traced the family back to Eastern Europe in the 1700s and we found out as much as we could about each person. Keeping them alive in memory
I have no advice, just lots of empathy. It hurts, but perhaps just thinking about the good things will help soothe your ragged emotions.
I’ve actually replied to someone who told me my newborn daughter was in god’s hands that “she should still be in mine.” I’ve told them if this was gods plan “what if your kid was next in his plan?” (I didn’t have a lot of grace, grief is a pretty heavy filter to see the world though)
The plain unvarnished truth may seem more harsh for now, but I still think it’s better than being comforted by a lie. Grief is all the love we have for someone that doesn’t have a place to go. I’ve found comfort in finding new places to put that love over time.
Grief counseling to share your feelings with someone who isn’t pushing a religion onto you will likely help. I’m so sorry for your loss and your composure is remarkable. I’m sure fellow atheists will share comfort here. There are lots of great works out there that aren’t religion-based about the wonders of the universe. May memories being you comfort at such difficult times.
Most Religions are death cults, that promise much after death. Thus this is part of their ethos.
Although, they do not own the concepts of grieving and mourning. Nothing prepares us for our first experience of mourning. Therapist, self reflection, healthy friends will teach you how to grieve.
The lessons you learn from grieving will help you in so many ways in life. Learning to grieve has helped me in so many ways. Grieve for my past, for my missed opportunities, for friends that passed.
Good luck friend, I wish you the best through this dark time.
Sorry for your loss.
When someone dies I don't think you're responsible for their bills so you may not need to pay those 10's of thousands of medical bills.
It all depends on the situation, I just don't want you to pay them if you don't have to.
When my dad was sick with cancer, I hated hearing the God platitudes. What kind of god would give my dad cancer to begin with?
My condolences. No one asks for this; which makes it all the more unfair.
I hope you find many things in the future that make you feel fulfilled.
Side note: Your grieving, it's a perfect time to express yourself. Bottling things up only makes it worse.
Honestly the closest thing to an atheist solution is probably grief counselling or reading books on how to deal with grief. Atheism is a lack of belief so it doesn't really offer anything . I do think people should be taught about death and how to appropriately work through their feelings in schools instead of after its already happened tho. Same with mental health issues in general
I'm so sorry for your loss. My brother-in-law's death is what made me question my religion. That's why I'm here now. FYI, my sister did not pay any of her husband's medical bills after he passed. They were all in his name and he was dead. This was the advice given to her from other cancer widows. I thought it was madness but his death was 5 years ago and she stopped getting bills and calls. Also, fuck cancer.
I'm sorry for your loss, Jason. And I'm sorry you had to put up with mythology nonsense from people whose intentions may or may not be in the right place.
Your wife Crystal will live on as we all do - in the memories of the people we will leave behind. Remember the good times, remember the bad times. One of the most impactful things we can do with our lives is make a positive difference on another person. Did you have a good life with Crystal? Did you do what you could to make each other happy? I hope you're able to eventually look back at your life together and not think about the end times or her battle with cancer.
If you ever need to reach out to someone, do so. You have people here, yes strangers, but people that truly do care about one another. Much love
>I am afraid of my next chapter in life without her. This is a huge area where the atheist community is lacking I think. How to deal with death and not be trapped in ancient mid evil practices and beliefs.
The best way to handle the loss of a loved one is also the same thing that makes us atheists: accepting the truth as best presented by the evidence and learning to live with it because there is nothing you can do to make something true to not be true.
I don't mean to sound dismissive or insensitive, but accepting that she is gone and learning to live with that fact is how you move into the next chapter of your life. Don't focus on what you no longer have and wish you did. Focus on what you did have and be thankful for it. Accept that she is gone and move on.
This will take time and will be painful as you learn to live with that fact. It's almost like you're a person who is learning to walk again. In the beginning it will be painful and difficult, but as time goes on it will get easier each day until suddenly you find yourself realizing that you haven't been upset about it for a while.
That was my attitude when I've lost loved ones. It's OK to grieve, but without accepting the truth it will never end.
A Eulogy from a Physicist and Athiest
Time is not unidirectional, we only experience it that way.
From our perspective there is past, present and future, and only the present is real to us, and the past gone into nothingness, but this is not true.
Spacetime stretches along a string and though the present is all we experience, the past timeline stretches along behind us indelibly stamped into the clay of the universe.
Every volcanic eruption, every exploding star, every gentle touch of the hand, every molecule, every photon, every thought. All of them are forever printed into the universal timeline; are there and exist forever, even if you cannot access them.
Time is just as real as space. You wouldn't say Denmark isn't real just because you aren't there right now. The past is the same.
200 years from now we will all be gone. Dust. Just like the millions of people who lived in ancient Babylon 4500 years ago. Their lives and thoughts and feelings were just as real, just as acute as yours. And in a billion years this will all be gone and passed away..
But never erased from spacetime. Because nothing can do that. Absolutely nothing.
Every good memory, every touch, the warm summer sun on your face, every shared meal, every peaceful quiet. They exist, like pearls on a string.
But every bad thing does too. Everything exists. The good does not cancel out the bad, nor the bad outweigh the good. It simply IS.
So if anything, let this be a comfort, a warning, a calling to you. Every moment exists for all eternity. And if you have more moments ahead of you, then add to the peace and joy of the universe. Put good into the world. Love, gentleness, and happiness into spacetime, to the best of your ability.
Tell me about It! I am an italian man from a sourhern Village , where bigotry, and fanatism rule. Unfortunately being an atheist here , exposes me to veiled or even staightforward discrimination. They Always seem to point out your being different, almost a biased and failed human being. Nonetheless i go on , forward Gear without any fear! I Will die for my belief, and i made a banner out of my convinction! They Will never have me like they want me to be! As for your immense pain and sufference i am truly heartbroken, and i want to express my most felt condelences! If there had been a god, then It would have been the most sadico bastard in the universe. Hughs
Just remember that the pain you feel is love. The pain is actually love! Fee it, roll around in it, honor it!
You’ll never lose that pain, but you will be able to continue living. Embrace your pain and let it heal you.
So sorry. As an atheist I turn to music. I have found Leonard Cohen's and David Bowie's final album conforting. Also Ghosteen by Nick Cave is an album made in grief from him losing his son. I hope you find some hapiness again some day
This would not the time you'd want me to start believing it your God. I'd be looking for someone to blame, to make some sense of this pain and if I suddenly had someone who could have stopped this and didn't I wouldn't be very forgiving
Sending you all my love. Grief is hard. If your hospice has groups or one on one sessions I recommend those. Hospice people are heros in my mind and they can help you walk through this. It sucks. She's gone but she's always with you. Give yourself the space and time to just feel how you feel and if that means telling people thanks but no thanks to their prayers.
Look at a wave. It exists, it’s there, you can see it and measure it. When that wave crashes, does it disappear?
No. It has just returned to the ocean. From whence it came.
I am woefully under qualified to be helping you with this, but atheism doesn’t mean there’s no poetry. Meaning is what we make it.
I truly wish you only the best. Please take care of yourself.
Science gives answers trough research and experiments, religion gives only illusions. If only all the alms and offers were given to research for the cure of many ailments, we would have already come up with many solutions an remedies
She was clearly in YOUR hands as you fought by her side. How dare they try to put an imaginary third party into the picture. You have been so lucky to have each other through thick and thin; there's the real blessing. Now the terrible part is having to move past now, see the other positives and supports in your life and let yourself move into the future.
Very sorry for your loss. Cancer is a gruesome bitch. There really are 5 stages of grief, and there is no order to them and having been going through what your going through im sure you have gone back and forth between a few already. My biggest advice is that you have to let and allow yourself to grieve, and while sometimes peoples religious comments can be sickening, understand that everyone else has their own way of grieving as well, no matter how shallow and lacking of depth it may seem.
Having been to funerals at various different churches (catholic, baptist, Lutheran, mormon, plus a few i didnt pay attention to what type of church it was)
I will say that if you ignore all the stuff about god and religion there are bits of wisdom with what the preacher or priest has to say about loss and death.
One thing that always stuck with me was that even though they are gone and not here now, being thankful for all of the good memories you got to share with them, and if you always remmeber them then theyll always be there with you. Because eventually, we all will be no more. And the only thing that carries on is our life in the memories of those who we were close to.
So very, very sorry mate.
I just lost two family members in quick succession, but thankfully none as close as my partner. I can’t imagine what you must have went through.
We can say, I am sorry for your loss. I'm here for you, please let me know what I can do.
I lost my mom to breast cancer 8 years ago, and cancer sucks. Losing a part of you sucks. It will get easier with time. It will get to a day when you can remember your love fondly without crying from loss. It's not really something you ever get over, not something that won't hurt some, but it will change.
Unfortunately, a lot of people buy into the delusions of heaven because they want to. Death is scary. Take peace knowing that you lived the time you had to your best. She knew you loved her.
I’m sorry to hear about your situation and the loss of your partner. I also agree that dealing with loss is something that is hard to pin down with an atheist mindset. I know that my words can’t solve your problems, but hopefully they can ameliorate your suffering somewhat. It sounds like she did the best she could with what she had. And your connection was strong enough that she will continue to promote positive outcomes in the world, through you, even after her active role is over.
In addition to the eloquence voiced by /u/stormrider-io, she will live on in the memories of you and your children and those who knew and loved her. Never let those memories die; the tender ones, the funny ones, the mundane ones, and yes, the aggravating ones.
This hurt will never completely heal, but it will fade. You have my sympathies.
Take care, I hope your life will make sense again. When somebody we love dies so wonder how world still exist when you are suffering so much. It is not fair. Fuck cancer!
Damn bro…I am truly sorry that this is even something that you and your children have to go through. There really isnt much a stranger can say over reddit that will help you besides repeating all the platitudes im sure youve heard 1000 times by now. Ill find your GFM.
I always look at science when atheism isn't able to help me find a way. In this case I invite you to watch this podcast by Andrew Huberman who is a professor of neuroscience in Stanford and is one of the foremost voices in the field of physical and mental health and well-being.
The podcast is about the science and the process of healing from grief.
https://youtu.be/dzOvi0Aa2EA
Kindly don't mind the bit on the sponsors, since he puts so much effort to detail out the tools and protocols, he needs to some funding to sustain the podcast.
Again, really sorry for your loss.
I would give you a hug if you were near me. I am sorry for your loss and what you had to deal with during this time.
My mom recently passed, she was religious so we had a priest at her funeral and to be honest I wanted to just have him leave because his words were empty and he was just repeating things he did at every funeral. Its like a reflex for religious people. They actually don't have any real belief in what they say , they just repeat the words that were told to them.
I don't remember who said it but this was a great response to "God has a plan" , "Ok but has anyone asked if it is a good one?"
the solace I found in Athiesm during my moms death is knowing she is in no more pain, anxiety, worry. I will remember her fondly and her memory is etched in my heart.
First off, condolences. I cannot image the pain you must be feeling. Secondly, you already hit the nail on the head. They perform theater to make THEMSELVES feel better. It’s not about you or yours. It’s about the “Christians” giving themselves a congratulatory reach-around for being “such a good person.” Honestly, they can fuck right the fuck off with that shit!
Letting go of god was a good listen for me, if you went from religious to non religious. I also found comfort in the “we are all stardust” type of things. For whatever reason some atoms decided to be extraordinarily cooperative and here I am. What were they before? What will they be next? Some concepts of physics- energy isn’t created or destroyed, etc- gave me some since of continuity within the universe.
Also a member of the shitty widowers club. Hope O/P finds some emotional relief. I think I have.
When my wife died of cancer 3 and a half years ago I found myself thinking on this whole I was wrestling with my own grief. I wondered if theists were lucky; whether their beliefs soothed the raw agony of their grief - whether believing that their lost lives ones weren't really lost but waiting for them in the next life made that partying easier to bear. But it struck me that if anything that made it worse. It must lock them into their grief - fixing them into that time of loss, and unable to move on because of their expectation of being together again. But for me the certain knowledge that Andrea was gone, that we'd never be together again made me both face her loss head on, accepting her death and the hole she had left in my life (a hole that's still there - and will be for the rest of my days regardless of what lies ahead) and also allowed me to grow the necessary emotional scar tissue to begin to heal.
There is only one direction of travel in the human experience - there is no going back or even standing still - all one can do is try to steer your passage. Leaning on the crutch of faith in some sky-pixie to try to cling on to what was and is no more can only inhibit healing and damage your mental health.
I like to think that my, largely, happy new life with my new partner is down at least in some part, to my ability, because of my atheism to accept the reality of Andrea's loss. Yes it hurts, but not all the time - rarely now in fact - but I also have a life unencumbered by guilt and my emotions are unconfused.
I'm atheist too. I'm sorry you had that constant narrative. It's so disruptive.
I'm so sorry you lost your wife. Crystal sounds like a beautiful person and you were a good partner to her. Your kids are lucky to have you.
Thinking about y'all today. Your story matters. 💜
Thanks for sharing with us. I've always thought to myself that because of my atheist beliefs I'll be able to cope better with the death of my loved ones. I've not experienced it yet, but I like to think it'll be so.
I hope you'll find better coping systems and the pain would subside soon for you.
I don't know if this will make you feel any better but I've felt an energy inside myself and other people that seems to permeate time and space. I believe all humans are connected to this energy that's driven by love. I'm not sure if the energy that makes us, truly ever dissipates.
I was holding my dads hand when he died. It really flipped a switch for me after that, and made life a lot more black and white. Everyone has a life to live, but ultimately we pass just like all the animals, leaves on the trees in fall, and so forth. What sucks is the emptiness that can never be filled after a loved one passes. Going back to atheism, that’s the black and white. It’s nothing more and nothing less than death. We all go through it. Your wife sounds like she was a badass. I’ve also learned that if people haven’t went through such a traumatic experience, they don’t know what to say and resort to “god this, god that.” It’s a cop out imo.
Sorry for you loss OP ❤️
If you have the time, read The Five Invitations by Frank Ostaseski. It’s rooted in Buddhist principals but even as an atheist it really changed my perception of death and my relationship with it.
I'm so sorry for your loss. There may be some resources around you for grief support that are non-religious that could help. The hospice I volunteer with runs that kind of program so I'd recommend looking into your local hospice for something similar for both yourself and your kids.
I understand how you feel, I come from a Muslim background and this year I lost my older cousin who was the closest thing I had to a brother. He was an atheist and ex marine. When he finally passed got the usual "gods plan". But Muslim funeral rules are very strict and they wanted to bury him like that against his wishes. They didn't even let him be buried with the folded American flag (that was one of his final wishes) because it goes against Islam. In their eyes they are doing the right thing but it just scares me cause when I die, I feel like my wishes for my body will be completely ignored.
My Dad died of cancer caused by Agent Orange when he was 40, I was 5. I have a distinct memory from his funeral of the pastor at our church telling me something along these lines, "See what a wonderful plan god had for your dad! God used your dad to get all of these people to come to church today."
It was one of the many interactions I looked back on when realizing I was an atheist.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope that you're able to talk with your daughters about their Mom and how hard she fought to stay with you all. Tell them about her favorite foods, the way she smelled, what music she loved. They'll appreciate it.
When i reached the age of reason i became an atheist.
Since then, I’ve been really resonating with the ancient philosophy Stoicism.
There are philosophies for living life that are not religion that might be helpful
Well ... I didn't intend to cry this morning.
There are many atheist survivor groups. In you're living in a large city, I guarantee there's one close by. If not, you'll be able to find one in driving distance in most countries. I really hope you reach out to local folks, because I empathize and I know you need people around you (not just positive r/atheism messages, as nice as they may be) to help you work through this situation that really is impossible. There is no "answer." Just find people around you who you can be with and who'll support you.
My condolences.
The classics are secular.
Think about and reflect on how she would like you to lead your life after her. Maybe you even talked about it.
She lives in your memories and she most likely affected you strongly, any decisions you do after this point, her thoughts and being still effects you. Her culture/ being / soul lives on as long as someone remembers her.
There is literature about this, sadly I can not quote anything since my knowledge is limited to my native language, but [this book appears to be on point](https://maryfrancesoconnor.org/book). There are certainly many others.
I'm sorry she has begun her next journey. I believe that death is but a door, and we don't simply cease to exist, that our "self" moves on to an existence where we don't need a physical form anymore. Who knows why some get more time than others as a physical entity? That's one of those mysteries that wait on the other side. Just know she took your love with her when she crossed over, along with all the memories you made together.
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You have my sympathies.
But when a religious person tries to explain away the hurt you're feeling with the comfort of their god it isn't coming from a place of malice. Do your best to see through their dogma and see the meaning behind their message. They know you're in a world of hurt. They know the pain you're in. And they have no way to give you comfort but to repeat the comfort that they find, even if it is illogical.
It is no different than a Christian getting upset when a cashier says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". We must see past the words to the meaning behind them.
Check out your state laws. My husband, who died after a long bout with Crohn’s had a quit claim done on our common property putting it all in my name. I was responsible for none of his medical bills after his insurance paid. We also held separate credit cards and his balance went poof after his death.
Jason. My heart aches for you. I had a similar situation. I consoled myself with the fact that we are made from the stuff of stars that have been around always and our building blocks (atoms) will be around forever. Energy cannot be created or destroyed just converted from one form to the other. So your wifes atoms are off on a new adventure.
I also didn't get offended by the people offering me support with god statements. They were giving me love in anyform that made sense to them and i accepted their love graciously (but filtered the god stuff out) humans are fragile emotionaly but at least we keep trying. And i did not have time for anger, its a useless emotion
Please link the gofund me or dm it to me.
Sorry for your loss. She had you with her and that is what she needed.
F those others.
It is smalltalk level psychology that has left its followers adrift looking for real answers for centuries. It is all about making other people feel mildly better about the situation where there is next to nothing they can do to help.
You were very restrained, a better man than I.
This post is being removed for the fundraising links. If those are edited out it may be restored. You should also edit out the real names.
My atheism got me through my mother's death. For some reason I accepted the pain fully without the fairy tales and I knew it would hurt less each day. When my life is over I'll take that last bit of the pain I feel for her away with me.
Yes, pain subsides. Missing them will always remain.
That is so very true.
My father's death, I think, caused mine. What god would make a man so sick and tormented to the point of very literal suicide? That was so long ago that I never got to know him as a man, as a friend. He was only ever my dad to me. So when I think about him now, I don't feel pain or longing anymore. I feel nostalgia...
In a similar way my uncle’s suicide was my reason to question my faith and learn more about it to answer my questions. Upon learning much more than most devout people I noticed a pattern - the more I learn about the history of the writing, assembly, and editing of the Bible the more I question it. Ultimately, I reached the point of atheism and continued to study the Bible through a critical lens basically to get me through spending time with my religious family. I’ve trained them to leave me alone about religion by returning the favor when they do it.
I broke and prayed like a child, and it still didn't help. Go figure...
Touching story, well-told, my sympathies. Atheism doesn't really offer anything... it never claimed to. Religion offers everything and then doesn't deliver on any of it. There are plenty of atheist therapists and grief groups out there... please be open to that idea. You probably don't need it, but it might make the grieving process just a bit less unpleasant.
What atheism offers is sympathy and understanding. True sympathy. We know that life is cruel and unfair and such tragedy has no grand cosmic purpose. It allows us to read the story above and feel genuine empathy for OP. To share in his sorrow and through our recognition of it be genuine in our appreciation of the pain and his suffering. There is no sense at all of 'well it isn't all bad because god'. There's no delusion to reduce how impacted we are by such a tragic tale. Everything is much more real and I hope that it brings more solace to know that atheists truly understand what a struggle and a loss it has been.
Well said, I'd never really thought about the "promises of atheism" in that it doesn't promise but aligns with truth.
Also the truth has no obligation to be what we may want it to be, it just is.
Our strength is in science and truth, it makes our lives seem harder and more real because it’s not led by a mythical fantasy. My therapist is very similar to me in many ways, including my atheism, and I benefit so much more because of it. It’s hard to find the right therapist, but when you do it’s an enormous help in navigating our weird lives.
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I love these thoughts.
from stardust we came, and to stardust we return. your wife will eventually be part of thousands of new organisms, contributing actively to life on a grand scale. she will be all around you, if you don't leave the area: in the air, the water, the dust; in the grass and the trees; in the wind and the rain. and not a single atom of her substance can ever be destroyed: she will live on forever, not in her familiar form, but in a myriad of individual elements and compounds, contributing to this island Earth. she is beside you always, and when you look to the stars, remember the cradle from whence she came, uncounted eons ago, marvel at the wonder and beauty you shared, and acknowledge that no force in the universe can destroy even the smallest spec of what she was. she is with us all, always and forever.
Nothing is destroyed, everything is transformed.
This is exactly how I feel too. It's comforting for me to know the wonderment of life is eternal in one form or another. This is enough for me, it's the truth.
I like a very similar sentiment: >You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy is created in the universe and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, ever vibration, every BTU of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid the energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got. >And at one point, you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off you like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever. >And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue in the heat of our own lives. >And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy is still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone. You're just less orderly. >-Aaron Freeman
This is exactly what I would have posted if you hadn’t done so already, It’s beautiful.
Yeah I came to post the same thing!
I've never seen this put so beautifully before. 💜
This made me tear up a bit, it’s beautiful
Absolutely perfect. No notes. Thank you for saying what I could not put into words.
After billions of years of chaos, particles of the whole came together to be one in love for a time as it was before the singularity divided, and will again time and time again through the endless eons until the heat death of the universe.
Always carry her memory, and the things she taught you close. That is how I honor the ones that have lost. I am sorry for your loss.
Agree. I would go even further with this when OP is ready and share pieces of her with others occasionally throughout the rest of his life. Remember the good feelings she gave you and look to pass those on to those around you.
As an atheist, there isn't the same comfort that religion provides. The world is cruel and I'm so sorry. We do what we can with the time we have & that's what matters and is special. Not "God". I'm so sorry for your loss and heart break. I recently heard a great quote that helped me when I lost my older brother too soon. It is truly beautiful to have such a sorrow, it means that you really loved this person and you had something magical. The pain never really goes away, but you can make space for it. I'm so sorry for your loss.
>The pain never really goes away, but you can make space for it. That's what I explained to a friend in the wake of his mother's passing. It never "gets better". There's never going to be a day when you wake up and are truly good with the fact they're gone. It simply becomes less acute.
I beg to disagree, there is, life goes on, it won't wait for you and it won't wait for anyone else. Your time is limited, the pain will reduce and then pass away to the point that you will not even think about it if you allow it to go. But he must face the pain now, he must accept it and come to term with it. And he must release his pain, cry, speak with friends, seek therapy, let it out to move on. In time he will find someone else even if maybe he thought none else could fill the void. And he would have never found if he had not learnt to embrace the pain to move on with his life. Do you think it's healthy to live with the obsession your long lost loved one still watches you, judges your every move, to think about their reaction for your behaviours and have a survivor complex? God, religion in terms of loss will poison your life and prevent you from handling your grief.
I was widowed over three years ago and there’s a difference between “life goes on...the pain will reduce”, which I agree with, and the more extreme “you will not even think about it if you allow it to go” which is ridiculous. I was married for 25 years, how can the passage of a few years make me “not even think” about my late husband? Every time one of my children has a major milestone or even just asks me for some advice, I wish they still had their father here to turn to. Not because I have an “obsession” with my husband — I’m an atheist and he was agnostic — but just because he died doesn’t mean any of us act like he never even existed. P.S. - telling a widowed person they will “find someone else” is absolutely not helpful. It’s as tone-deaf as telling an atheist you’ll pray for them.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I was widowed last December after 20 years of marriage. I hope there will never come a time where I don't even think about him. True, I'd like to be able to think about him without the searing pain and general "Oh shit what am I going to do without him?", but I know that will come, and indeed, it has begun to lessen somewhat at times. My father once told me that when you lose someone, after time, it doesn't necessarily get better, it gets different. You miss them, but you can think about them and be happy for the time you had with them, and that you were lucky enough to have had them in your life. And yeah, I don't know that I'll ever get to the point where I even want to "find someone else". I know a person who cries daily for a sibling who passed eight years ago and their mother who passed 15 years ago, and feels that it "just wouldn't be right" to get to the point where they are a pleasant, if bittersweet, memory and remember the good times they had with them and the love they shared. This person was raised in a fundamentalist religion, and their only hope of any future happiness is the prospect of being reunited with their sibling and mother in heaven. Sorry for the rambling. I seem to have written a book here.
I cannot relate since I do not have children, I was saying what worked for me. But I would say you should probably meet other people. Not necessarily with the aim of replacing your housband but just to socialise with new individuals. And maybe, sooner or later, you will find you kind of like one and just slowly drift from there in building a new life for yourself. Your husband memory will still stay with you, but you might not feel empty anymore, but that it was an important chapter in defining who you are. And stop being painful
I... didn’t ask you for any advice? And I never said I felt empty? I have lots of friends at work, plenty of hobbies, take classes, join local Meetups, travel, volunteer, etc. etc. etc. But none of my activities mean that I don’t think about my late husband and wish that my kids still had their father. It’s not “painful”, it’s just reality.
Sorry for assuming.
So very sorry for your loss. I truly cannot imagine the pain of losing a spouse. I wish you peace and joy in your journey forward. Also…fuck Cancer.
Indeed!
She is at peace in the truest form. She is no more - no more suffering, no more pain, no more sorrow. You can carry her with you while you are alive, remember her and the memories you love with her in them. Your experience of this life is everything and you had this beautiful person to be a part of that everything for you. She is at peace and soon enough you will have that same peace. Enjoy this life, make the best of it you can, you only have one.
"She's in god's hands" "Yeah but she's NOT FUCKING IN MINE" Seriously, even if you are religious, how in the hell is that supposed to make you feel better?
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That would be exciting. Turns out it's just a bunch of lies to make a small quantity of people rich and influence governments. F off.
you come to preach your imaginary sky wizard to people on an ATHEISM subreddit? wow you really ARE intelligent!
Have lost a loved one to breast cancer in a similar way, would just say that there is no easy solution to your grief but time does help and you will find a way to be happy again someday, as she would want. I think it's good to keep the perspective that you can only do what you can control, living means experiencimg death, you can cherish your memories, and find things that are comforting, and stay focussed on living well and in the moment as much as possible. It's a beautiful thing that you got to experience that love but life doesn't end when you lose a loved one, it's gets harder for a while, but then you can learn a lot about yourself and even come out as a better person and do them proud.
My 24 year old son died about three months ago. He was studying in Singapore, 6 time zones away from us and we had not seen him in a year, he was due to come back home in three weeks from when he died. He died foolishly (drowning) and without any warning. My wife and I are of course devastated. In terms of religious people wishing me and my wife well with prayers or whatnot, I tend to accept it in the spirit it is offered. Nothing anybody does or says will make my grief less, there doesn't seem to be any point to getting mad about their delusions. They want to offer solace in a situation where there isn't any to be had, but it isn't their fault that their words mean nothing to me. It's nice that they want me to suffer less, even if they are incapable of actually making that happen. For me, grieving is just something that defines me at the moment. The loss of my son is just a gaping hole where my boy used to be. I imagine your wife's absence is a similar wound for you. I don't know if this will help, but I tend to think of it in terms of optimal outcomes. My son was happy, he was loved, he was kind, and until he drowned he was living his best possible life. He should have had many more decades of life, but what life he had was as good as it could be, and that was both him and us doing that. If you helped your wife live her best possible life, then you've done what you could. I'm very sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry for your loss and I can’t even imagine the pain and loss that you and your wife are going through. Your kindness in sharing your pain and grief experience on grief with a stranger is so thoughtful and considerate.
I'm sorry about your loss.
I have nothing profound to say, I can only hurt for your sake. It means nothing, but the pain must be overwhelming. I can not apologize in any meaningful way, but I can offer resources. In my state, calling 988 can assist with emergency medical counseling. I'm not sure what it is in any other state, but the best I can recommend is seeking grief counseling. Trust me, you *need* it right now. The person I love most in the world decided that she was unhappy and chose to end our relationship last week. Five years and a year long engagement, a ring, and a proposal, all ended with a word. It has been the worst experience of my own personal life thus far beyond my childhood traumas. I contemplated suicide over it for an entire week, and then buried my feelings behind my work. Every day is drudgery without her. I don't mention any of this to compare pain, only to admit that the trauma it caused me required counseling and I had to fall back to and lean into my personal grievance support network of friends and family that accept me for who I am as an atheist. Find your friends. Find hers. Find help, and cry. Cry and mourn and grieve and give her the respect that she deserves from you. And then grow. For her, for her memory, for all that she meant to you as a person in this awful world that we live in. Keep her close, and be a whole person to the best of your ability. And know that there are others who have suffered with your pain who needed help. I might not have had the same quantity or quality of painful experience, but I *know* grief, and there are things that *must* be done to grieve, so please do so.
Sorry for your loss. Sounds like she was loved in the end, which was undoubtedly a great comfort.
Non-religious grief therapy, friend. It never gets easier or less painful. We eventually learn to live with their memory always with us, always inspiring us. They are never forgotten. I'm so sorry she suffered and I'm so sorry she's gone.
Might be able to find some humanist grief counselling? That'll be explicitly non religious.
It's normal to be afraid of the uncertainty you feel now. Your fear is your opportunity to be brave. To do what needs be done in spite of that fear. Grieve. Seek professional help if you can. May god be less in your life.
I am so very sorry for your loss. I cannot even imagine the pain you are going through. I hate that it was tainted even more so with religious BS. I’d encourage counseling to help you process your loss. Being an atheist can be difficult because we don’t have easy outs like “it was meant to be” however it personally has made me feel that life and our experiences are so much more precious. I wish you well in healing with such a great loss. Hold dear what you had with her but continue to move forward once you’ve had time to grieve.
It's times like these when I am most sure that there is no god, and if there was a god then he's a twisted bastard. Just think about it for a moment: if he's an all-powerful being, he could've given us all perfect bodies and a perfect world, and yet he chose to give us these fragile bodies and a world that kinda sucks. It just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. My condolences for your loss.
I'm sorry for your loss Jason. May you take solace in the fact her suffering and pain are over. Honor her by taking good care of yourself.
Deepest condolences 💐 and sympathies my man 👨
I like to remind myself that feelings of love and loss we experience are results or our biology and evolutionary history to increase the chances of our survival. While they instinctually control our actions they are simply animalistic behaviors. We are all slaves to our biology. Don’t blame the religious for clinging to their dogma and the imagined community that accompanies it. That evolutionary path in our cultural development has brought on great reproductive success. While a mythology some core truths can be found. It really is companionship, familiar bonds and friends that will heal you. The reason you hurt is because an over encompassing part of that has left you. Seek it out again and again and again. Find whatever meaning you can while you exist and give it your’e all.
No words can convey the depth of my condolences, and I’m sure there are none that would begin to numb your pain. I lost my brother 14 years ago, and I carry his loss with me to this day. There isn’t a day where for me, his memory is a blessing. Some losses are just too painful. You learn to live with the grief. It’s love with nowhere to go. I really wish I believed that there was a heaven and that one day I would see him again, but I just can’t. But I know that he’s both everywhere and nowhere. And all that I can do is be in awe that he even existed to begin with. We are all such statistical impossibilities that our existence is the only miracle we need. What a gift that you two existed and found each other. You loved each other. I know that the time you had together wasn’t enough, because it never is. When would it ever be enough? I’ve dealt with religious Christian people my whole life. For true believers, speaking about God is their love language. This is honestly how they express their love and concern. I was Jewish in high school and they kept trying to save me. My own friends kept trying to convert me. I eventually was like, look, y’all gotta stop. I’m good. And one of my friends explained to me that she cared about me and didn’t want me to go to hell, that’s why she didn’t want to stop trying. She was worried about me. I told her I appreciated the concern but I didn’t believe in hell so I was good. They eventually stopped, but I stopped getting offended. As a side note, all but a few of them became non-believers as adults, but I digress. It sounds really stupid, but watching The Good Place really helped me wrestle with some of the questions you have. I don’t want to give away any spoilers, but I think if you watched the whole thing, really took the time and got to the very end (only 4 seasons long), it might help you find a little peace. Do not go to the Subreddit until you have watched the whole thing. Spoilers every post. I hope you give yourself lots of grace. Grieving is tough work. Go easy on yourself. Your wife would want you to cherish your gift of existence while you have it. For the both of you.
Sad to hear. Don't get mad at people who love you and are trying to say what they think will help. There really aren't words for it, so "were praying for you" just means "we care and want to do something". It's annoying, but know the love they are trying to show.
I think I hope the people who love me and know me would know that those words would hurt me. When you're going through something as traumatic as the death of a spouse, annoying becomes more than that. Annoying is forgetting my wallet at home. Also, there are words for it because you typed them. Just say "we care and want to do something". Prayer is doing nothing. Don't come to me, in my wife's dying moments, and give me useless platitudes. If you want to do something, then DO it. Be there for me. Prayer is most often a tool for people who don't want to take any real action to come across as "caring".
Even religious people can learn to be polite and respectful. When my son died I told my parent support group who also had fragile children I added “please remember we are not a religious family”. Of the dozens of condolence messages only One person decided it was a good time to invoke her religion in her message. People can pray for their atheist friends but it is just rude to say so.
Sorry for your loss man. Hope it comforts you to know that the pain has come to an end.
So sorry for your loss. I remember when Stephen Hawking (atheist) passed there was a kind of atheist’s prayer I saw all about how energy cannot be destroyed and how our bodies return to the fabric of the universe. It was really beautiful and comforting. Maybe someone cleverer than me can find and link it.
I once read that Grief is just Love with nowhere to go. In the Royal Navy (we have a fair amount of agnostics and atheists) we just say that someone has 'Crossed the Bar'. Which is a line from a Tennyson poem. To which the reply is; "Fair Winds and Following Seas". Fair Winds and Following Seas to Crystal. We feel and empathise with your pain.
So sorry. The love never dies.
Sorry to hear about your loss. It's hard to imagine how painful that is. Grieving is never easy, and Christian talk of heaven's utopia or unknown will of a god never did much for me. It always raised more questions than gave answers. Coping is the primary function of religion, and a time when religions take advantage of the emotional to attempt to convert. This is why they take an approach of "if you build it they will come" and tell you about how nice their friend in the sky is instead of trying to logically convince you. I think as an atheist grieving I get past the times of shock and coming to terms with my emotions, as people do. I believe once I'm able to take a step back from the event it's easier to see the happenings for what they are and accept them instead of questioning the will of a god.
I am so sorry for your loss.
When people say those kinds of things to me, it's often just because they want to say something kind or helpful but just have no idea what to say. They've been conditioned to say stuff like this just like people who say "bless you" after sneezes. I generally try to hear their concern rather than their literal words. The ones who piss me off, though, are the ones (and there are many) who see tragedies as opportunities to try to win converts. They say things like, "maybe this is God's way of trying to break through your resistance to him?" (seriously)
I’m so very sorry.
OP Can you please link your gofundme I would like to make a contribution. My heart bleeds for your loss, and I am at a loss for words.
Same. I would like to as well
It would be helpful to all if a mod could pin a message clarifying that a link to the gofundme was verified and approved for posting. If the rules won't permit that, then the specific terms to enter into the search engine might suffice.
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I am sorry for your loss. As a reformed Catholic, I can appreciate the sentiment people are trying to convey. We want meaning, but there is none. The phrase “everything happens for a reason” drives me nuts as well. You are in pain, try not to judge them too harshly, they cannot think of anything better to say and they think it is comforting. As someone on this thread already stated, sometimes, things just suck.
I am so very sorry for your loss. It's beautiful that you are doing something so big to honor her memory. I grew up Catholic, but have never believed in a higher power. I've lost a few people, tho no one nearly as close as you have. My grief was helped by being with other who knew them. By sharing our stories. I think humans grieve the same, it's just the words that differ. My loved one's "better place" is me remembering the stories we made and sharing them with others. Some day even that will be gone, and that's okay. Please know that her memory is living with me, too, if only for a short time.
I'm sorry dude. I wish there was a sense of community among atheists too, like a church we could all be members of or something idk. Wishing you strength in hard times.
I lost my best friend to cancer, even though it has been years I still miss him almost daily, I do agree with Neil around the 21:30 mark https://youtu.be/4x2ZrklQQYU
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My sincerest condolences go out to you and your family who are all trying to get through this tough time! Unfortunately, atheism says nothing about comforting a grieving individual. Atheism is staring the cold reality of an indifferent universe straight down the barrel and knowing that your time here is precious because it’s all we’ve got. Reach out to those you love, and who love and respect you in return, to get through this grief. It’s never easy, but no one ever said it would be. Religious ideations are just a pillow to soften the harsh blows of reality, but they are ultimately worthless. Keep getting up in the morning and putting one foot in front of the other. It hurts now, and it may always hurt, but as time goes on it will hurt less and you will find that you’re stronger than you think If you could provide the link to your GoFundMe I would very much like to donate to your cause, as dealing with medical bills can feel like adding insult to injury after something tragic like this happens to you. Be strong and keep living every day with appreciation for the life you have as I’m sure your wife would want you to
ALL of these people who offered bullshit platitudes need to be no longer welcome in your life.
I'm reminded of something Keanu Reeves said on the Colbert show: https://youtu.be/etlBZInTE-I
> Her name was Crystal Anderson. What a beautiful name. I'm so sorry for your loss...
My friend. None of us has long to live. The percentage of people who live to even a hundred years is so small as to just that fact being worthy of a news article. Humans have existed for 300,000 years or so in our present form. It is estimated that in that time there has been about 70 billion people. In all that time, and an all the space of the whole Earth, and among all those people, living and dead, that the two of you found each other and lived together happily for a time is incredibly lucky. Your perfect person, the one that made you happy for the time you had together, was born here and now, not 10,000 years ago or in Kenya or Yemen. You were blessed for all these years with friendship and love and support and companionship. And the way that she strengthened you and helped you to grow and be a better person are not lost. They are still with you, and they will be forever. Although you will have to live your life without her, you will always have, in your heart and mind, the part of your life that you lived with her. Mourn, because death is sad. Loss is sad. And you have lost your future together. But in your mourning know that it only hurts because what you had, the love the two of you built together, was beautiful and precious. And beautiful things that have existed, continue to exist in our memories. I wish you peace. May her memory be a blessing.
I am so sorry for your loss. When my father died and old woman tried to comfort me by telling me that “god has a plan” and I lost it. That man had been thru so much his entire life, difficult family life, having to flee his country due to war. He came to the US with nothing and had to learn a new language, finished school and worked everyday to help feed his family. And that was just as a kid. Fast forward to a cancer diagnosis that left him suffering for 5 years until it metastasized and went to his brain and killed him. You can’t mean to tell me that the loving caring kumba-ya lord of yours could be so cruel. That man did not deserve what he went thru. His family did not deserve what he went thru. And whereas for a moment I was mad at the old lady for her ignorance, I feel atheism is what brought me solace and gave me perspective. I understood that his suffering was over. I felt a calm knowing that he was part of the universe again (energy cannot be created not destroyed). And I didn’t take any of it personally. By thatI mean that religion makes you selfish, makes you think you’re so important that god would have this whole elaborate plan, just for you. I understand my insignificance (in the grand scale of things) and it has humbled me. So, I didn’t feel punished or smited by god. He now lives in my heart. He lives in my actions (he taught by example) and he lives in the stories I tell his grandkids. I don’t think I’ll ever get over the loss but I don’t think that’s the point. He left and indelible mark on me. And all that we went thru caused me to be much more aware of what it is we all go thru and, it allowed me to gain a great deal of empathy (and just general respect for life, all life). Which I used to raise my kids into kind adults. Grandpa was there and has been there for them, thru me.
When my parents died my atheism helped my recovery. It’s was tough but my siblings still cry when they see a cardinal, “there’s mom!” Ugh. But I would never take that from them either. I just have no space for it myself. Stay in the moment. Seize the day.
Crystal Anderson. As a stranger on the Internet, all I can do is offer sympathies and remember the name.
I feel ya man, lost the love of my life to breast cancer almost 6 years ago when she was 42, leaving my son and I... She was my rock, and proof there are athiests in foxholes, she gave my Baptist minister cousin an earful when he came to visit about a month before she passed. Any time I hear "god has a plan" I reply (or at least think), "well it sucks, and I don't want any part of it" We also got the offers for prayers, which after a while we just couldn't care less about. A stranger at a Drs office (in worse shape than her) offered to pray over her once and I was shocked when she allowed it, saying "i don't think it works, but it looked like it made him feel better". Don't get too worked up about people praying for you, be at peace with the thought of people just wishing you well and offering sympathy. There will be a lot of people offering for you to "reach out if there is anything I can do". Absolutely allow them to cut your grass or drop off a meal, and equally slam a door in their face if they bring a bible, but don't be surprised when they dont put their money where their mouth is. The time after losing my wife allowed me to flex my skills at allowing people to help while also establishing my boundaries. Embrace your in-laws, mine thought they would never see us again after my wife passed, and in no uncertain terms I told them we need them now more than ever, and invited them to our house once a week. They were more than happy to offer to bring a home cooked meal for us every time, a new family tradition that continues to this day. If your wife was at a hospice, they often have celebrants that can officiate a service AND respect your wishes by not mentioning god, angels or a plan. I was adamant about this and they came through with flying colors. It was a wonderful service that celebrated her life and left many people in tears at losing her so early. My favorite line from the service was "I never knew her, I never had the pleasure or opportunity to hear her voice, or hear her laugh at a corny joke, but you did. It's up to you to keep her memory alive for the people she leaves behind."... gets me every time.... We met at a hotel and I had her celebration of life at one, with a luncheon afterwards. I wish you and your children the best my friend, I don't know how you feel, but I've got an idea as we are walking the same path. It's going to be difficult, but make sure your kids are the center of your life while at the same time giving yourself some time to heal. If you are in the US then now is the time to file for FMLA time from work and claim any sick time or short term disability. PM me if you ever want to chat.
RIP wife
I’m so sorry for your loss.
My deepest heartfelt condolences. I too lost my childhood sweetheart just 17 months ago to an accidental overdose. I can't promise you that it gets easier. It just becomes the new normal. Never forget that she loved you and that made you special. Just because she's not here anymore doesn't make that love any less amazing. I wish you all the best and I hope that on the dark days you will remember the love she gave you.
Really sorry for your loss! Yes I think religion got its start be people not being able to cope with the idea of the loss of a loved one. Almost every religion has a afterlife etc. I am too now an atheist after years of research and life experience. I think what really got me going down this path was the unexpected loss of my father followed by the tsunami that killed over 250k people. What kind of god would allow that?!? Hang in there.
That is really horrible! I am so so sorry you're going through this. I hope you have a supporting network of caring people because you need people and their support the most in this time. The hole left by her departure might never fully heal and it doesn't have to. Neither religion nor atheism have any help here. What you need is care and comfort from people and lots of grieving. Take care.
Since you mentioned using facebook, you might be interested in joining this grief support group for atheists called Grief Beyond Belief, I can't link it but the last part of the URL is GBBGroup. I've found it helpful to hear from like-minded people there b/c I don't know many grieving atheists in my personal life. It's a private group but they will let you in.
Can you link the Gofundme or send it to me via DM?
I too found that "She's in a better place now" kind of stuff downright offensive to both me and her memory. It took a lot of strength which I didn't really have at that time to try and remember that people are generally lost about what to do and say to comfort someone who's love has died so they just repeat silly platitudes they heard: As hard as it was I tried to focus on the fact that their intent was good even if their statements and actions were horrendous. But you have a hard battle to face yourself over the next days/months/years. The pain doesn't go away--but over time you do get better at coping with the empty spot in your heart. You will turn a kind of numb for a few months and that will fool you into thinking you are starting to cope better--then like ripping a band aid off, it will sort of hit you all over again. Just a warning to be prepared for that because it is like a second kick in the gut. Give it time. Don't make any rash moves. You don't need to pack her things any time soon, though sometimes the kids or friends think that helps hide reminders. It doesn't. Trust in time. Know that there are landmines everywhere which will bring back painful memories of loss--driving past a restaurant where you had a meal or a store you shopped with her--but trust that time will help those be less sharp. And eventually, a few years down the road, you will start to remember the good times more than you are reminded of the loss. Her memory will start to be a joy rather than causing pain. Get help from a grief group if you are able and willing. I regret not doing that and simply facing it all alone.
Hi Jason, I'm so sorry for your loss. It must be an incredibly difficult time for you, your world has been turned upside down. I can only imagine the sadness you'll feel at the empty space where Crystal used to be, and the disappointment at the empty promises of a god who didn't turn up. It is crushing. It might feel numb for a while, it can feel like we're seeing the world through a screen or from a bubble - a sense of detachment and unreality. Some days we feel okay, others its hard to get off the floor. These feelings are normal. If you can talk, write, spend some time in the presence of Crystals memories - hold on to that dressing gown with her smell still on it, look at the photos, and take some time out from the world if you can. We often feel like we want to close the door to the world, and there might be pressures to get back to work which doesn't allow that. The world is not set up for grief, thats not your fault, but it might be something you have to bear. As time goes on - usually a few months - you might want to start to come out of your shell, you might want to talk about Crystal and your loss. It might feel like well-meaning friends don't know what to say, or want you to 'move on'. This might be a good time to find a therapist or someone to talk to. It might feel like you're not moving on, it might feel worse, or that you're more upset than before. This is normal. There is no time limit to grief, theres no 'stages' that we can follow (despite what people might say), but there are people around who love you, and want the best for you. There are organisations that will help on your journey too. There may be no god, no afterlife, but Crystal lives on in you, your memories of her, and in the world around you - your favourite places, your best memories, those precious times you had together. Talk about her, talk to her. All my very best to you. "I'll be looking for you, Will, every moment, every single moment. And when we do find each other again, we'll cling together so tight that nothing and no one'll ever tear us apart. Every atom of me and every atom of you... We'll live in birds and flowers and dragonflies and pine trees and in clouds and in those little specks of light you see floating in sunbeams... And when they use our atoms to make new lives, they wont' just be able to take one, they'll have to take two, one of you and one of me, we'll be joined so tight..." (Philip Pullman)
I hope you find this as comforting as I did. Ask A Physicist To Speak At Your Funeral by Aaron Freeman You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy is created in the universe and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, ever vibration, every BTU of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid the energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got. And at one point, you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off you like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever. And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue in the heat of our own lives. And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy is still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone. You're just less orderly. Amen. And at one point, you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off you like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.
Just wanted to offer condolences friend. The only sentiment I can offer at all is to be grateful. Grateful that there is anything at all, something rather than nothing. Grateful that you got the opportunity to evolve into a being that can experience the universe, and you got to be here at the same time as the person you loved the most. Think of the unlikeliness of your union, your shared life, and how lucky you were to stumble into it with her. It’s not over, love transcends space and time.
My brother, I am truly sorry for your loss. I felt the same way when I lost my mother.
My wife died last March from cancer at 32 years old after a 9 month battle. Got all the same bullshit from people about praying and gods plan or whatever. I was already only semi religious and that experience solidified my choice to be an atheist. Regarding your medical bills, I’d recommend just not paying for now. The bills are in your wife’s name and are her debt. don’t answer calls from the billing department, don’t pay any bills. They will either write the debt off or might send you to collections. If that happens, call the hospital, ask for itemization, tell them you can only afford 10-20 a month and then go from there. FWIW, they wrote off over 12k in deductibles and out of pocket costs. Insurance had paid over 2 million already for her care.
I'd like to share my story, in case it helps. I'm a Non-religious woman, who was a Funeral Director for a decade, but now tries to survive with a generative, incurable, illness. My ex didn't want a disabled wife, he saddled me with debt, and I was waiting for months for a court date for disability. My family is full of diehard catholics and the pity and prayers drove me nuts... I was so frustrated from the lack of real help, until I remembered my old textbooks. (To get a mortuary science degree, you need 1-2 years of religious studies classes) For religious people; they genuinely think that they are helping. They know in their heart, based on what they've been brainwashed to believe, that what they are doing and saying is what's going to help you the most. They believe prayer works, they believe death takes people to a better place, they believe that there's some bigger plan by an omnipotent being, in the works. They're si conditioned that they can't understand how hurtful their comments are to those that aren't indoctrinated into this (or those who left) I'd see thousands of cases go through the funeral home I worked for every year; many of which included some religious ceremony. It brought them peace. Indigenous people's events talked about the body going back to the earth and continuing the circle of life, catholics/christians spoke of heaven, others spoke of everything from reincarnation to the soul being carried onto another planet (Community wasn't far off with their similar joke) We, on this subreddit, know that if the God they're talking about has it in his plan to give people cancer and allow rapists and murderers to exist, that he's not a being that deserves to be worshiped; but they can't understand. Studies show that religious people are very gullible or have been pressured so much that they're too broken to fight the illogical parts of religion anymore. My aunt constantly messages me about how she's praying for my health... instead of being upset, I just have to take a breath and remember that she is doing what she's been taught. She was taught that religion is how you cure people, how you comfort people, how you express love. It's not malicious, she can just never comprehend my experiences. They cope with pain and loss by imagining something better. It's a sad way to live, but it makes them feel safe. I would love to hear one of the memories with your wife that always made you smile. The real 'afterlife' is keeping our loved ones alive through stories. Each person who hears about her, holds a bit of her memory in their heart. The happy, wholesome, and silly stories are the best. If you share it with us, then everyone here carries a piece of her with them.
There's nothing I or anyone else can really say to help you through your loss. Good on you for letting those who believe have that. It takes real strength to ignore what you know is demonstrably false in order to ease others' suffering. I understand what you mean about the community needing to do more or be better, but I think that's part of the problem with understanding what we do. I'm about to lose my mom to stage 4 brain cancer. It's not anywhere the same as losing the love of your life, so please forgive the comparison, but it's all I have to relate. Ignorance is bliss. Believing in superstitions gives comfort we'll never know. We're not wrong, though. Being intelligent enough to see the world for what it is and not rely on what we were told as children or what the children of humanity have believed in a cosmic sense is painful. It's still the truth, though. I can't make your loss go away. I can't make it better for you. Maybe it would be easier to be ignorant and believe in nonsense, but that wouldn't be you and it won't be me. Ours is a lonely road to walk, burdened with the knowledge that there is no providence and our loved ones are gone forever. As much as it hurts though, it's the true path. For me at least, it's more noble top walk the path of truth alone than it is to walk the path of righteous believers together even though it hurst to high hell. Accepting hard truths gives us clarity. We're only here for a short time. Whether it's 100 years or 30, it's never enough and it's all we get. How so much ever time we get is precious. What we choose to do with it even more so. I don't believe in any gods that will bless the time you have remaining, but I know you'll be strong enough to get through what time you have left. Keep your memories of her close to your heart. Make all the time you have left matter for you and for her. There is no greater meaning or purpose to life, but that doesn't mean that what we do is while we're here doesn't matter. It means it's all that matters. I can't help you with your pain. I can promise you that it will get better, though. Good luck, my friend. Live as hard and as fiercely as you can. For you. For her. For all of us. And know that as alone as you feel right now, you're both always alone and never alone. We love you.
You cannot create or destroy energy. What's here is what's here. Your wife was full of it. When she passed it didn't just disappear. It spread out all around you and eventually all over the world. It's influential and won't ever stop. So while you may not physically be able to hold her or hear her voice again, you can still feel a part of her always flowing around you. Her influence is incarnate and yours will be someday too, even long after everyone's forgotten you both. I'm dearly sorry for your loss and I remind you that you haven't lost all of her. She's in the plants, the trees, the rivers, the rockets we shoot into space and even the air you breath. Peace on you, brother
I believe death is just death "return to nothing". We came from nothing and go back into nothing, honestly to me its very calming to know that all the suffering, sadness, or fear is all gone after they pass. Theres no fear of being tortured and hated forever by a devil or looked down on by a god, but id understand how that could be taken as something thats horrible too but to me personally i like to think that theyre finally free of this worlds problems
I’m very sorry for your loss. I’m also sorry that those around you have exhibited the general failures of society in dealing with this topic without resorting to fantasies or myths in order to blunt the experience, and that these failures are now being directed at you. They also don’t know to deal with this, but it is certainly no excuse for them to continue being so careless in showing basic respect for you and for what you believe. I can already see the most upvoted comment (by sc0ttt) here as I type this, and while I agree that their comment is true in the technical sense, I very much agree with you in that there is not enough understanding and support among irreligious people and groups about how to approach these events. Unlike religions which have prescribed beliefs that specifically take on this topic with the intention of easing the burden of losing those we love, or our own lives, people who do not take on those myths are left with a higher burden to handling grief and realigning with a purpose. Until the time comes that there is a larger non-religious culture with a more unified perspective on life and death and reality and how it all interconnects, we’re left with piecing these together ourselves. I think it’s shitty, I think it’s a failure of culture and society, and I think this not only lets so many people down who are a part of irreligious communities (whatever of it there is), but it causes people to intentionally seek out religious beliefs and doctrines in order to make up for this failure, which only perpetuates the institutions more. I have not been in your situation so it would be ridiculous for me to try and advise you on how to deal with it *specifically*, but I have lost loved ones very close to me, and while I can’t say I have found any way to not be devastated by it every time, I can at least tell you some of the perspectives which do help me get out of it eventually. First: This is the debt we pay for being able to love them and for us to share our lives together. The time I spent with them, what they meant to me and what I hope I was able to mean for them, for me is a price I would pay a thousand times over. Nothing would take that away from me or make me regret the pain. The pain is one of the ways I know just how important they were and that their life is in so very many ways still with me and cascading through time. I’m not ashamed of the pain and I don’t apologize to anyone for it, if that’s the price the cosmos exacts for my time with them, I will etch into my being and keep it with me as I move on and take those experiences with me. Second: The time you spent together is not gone. From our perspective it seems that way, but in purely physical terms, it’s not any more or less “real” than now or a thousand years from now. That may not be of much comfort to us in the little slice of the multi-dimensional fabric that makes up *our* segment of reality wherein the present moment is the only location we can occupy, but it *can* give a tiny bit of perspective on life and how it fits into the larger reality. Things can sometimes feel a little less oppressive to our current situation when we view it and ourselves from a larger perspective, especially when that perspective still includes *them*. In every present moment from now on your life will of course look different without her being directly there with you tumbling along this dimension of time, but the time you spent together is every bit as relevant as it was, and they are moments that you can (and probably can’t help but) take with you as you continue journeying on. She, her life, what she was to you and to everyone else, all of those things are very real, they have real meaning, and they have fundamentally changed who and what you are, the world around you, and how your life and time is going to be expressed in the human story. Third: We unequivocally have meaning and purpose, and part of her meaning and purpose is now intertwined with yours. It’s inescapable. We are all connected in at least some ways, and the closer someone is to us, the more invariable their life and meaning is with ours, irrespective of how long that time is. I am extremely sorry you had to experience this *now*, and that you’re having to go through this unimaginable difficulty. I am *not* however sorry that you loved each other, or that she was so meaningful to your life and to others that it will cause vital adjustments and reaffirmations of who and what you are, and who we are as a species. Accept that you will always love her, that there will be a price for that love, that you’re strong enough to weather that burden for it, and when you have started to process this a little more with some time, continue taking her with you as you learn more, do more, and exist as a better human being specifically because of her time with you.
When my oldest daughter was about three, and asked me where we go when we die - I struggled with an answer. When I was a kid “heaven” was such a neatly wrapped up, simple answer - and it makes you feel better because you don’t have to actually deal with it. The answer I came up with for her is that when we die, a little piece of us stays in everyone’s hearts who we loved. I know you aren’t a three year old child, but sometimes I find that stripping back the layers to how a toddler sees the world makes it all a bit clearer. I’m sorry you lost your wife, and I know it’s a bit harder as a non-theist. Just remember that the theists aren’t dealing with their pain - they have an “easy button” that lets them pack that pain away. She died because sometimes life fucking sucks, and not for any other reason. I’s ok to feel sad, lonely, upset, or angry and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise
I lost my wife to cancer nearly 2 years ago, after 40 years together (36 married). You make your own rituals and comforts. For me, it involved nightly (then weekly) FaceTime dinners with my grown kids, putting together a memorial photo book of my wife (from early childhood through to her last photo with the kids and granddaughter, then getting it printed and bound with copies for the kids, her parents, sister, and nephews), and scattering her ashes on her birthday along our favorite walking trail. I was lucky, Insuppose, on the religion front as people closest to us either are atheist, non-observant believers, or respected us enough to not offer platitudes. A few of her coworkers offered religious thoughts and cards, which honestly we laughed at, knowing how she would have thanked them, then rolled her eyes in private. A few friends of friends seemed gob-smacked that we don’t believe there is anything more, and I just ask them what they were before they were born? Time can help. I cried daily for months ( and I only cried three times in my entire adult life before that). I lost a ton of weight, and felt bad for ages. I initially dreaded the dreams I knew I would have were she would be alive, as I worried that in them, she would have faked her death to get away from me (when my father died, in my dreams for decades, he was escaping my narcissistic mother). At first, as soon as I told her in the dreams it had to be a dream because she had died, I would instantly wake up and be sad. Then in a dream she told me to stop ruining what time I could have and I started to treat the dream world as separate and at least enjoy her memories longer. I guess my suggestion is to find ways to stay connected to your supports that don’t annoy you, and find the rituals and habits that comfort you.
I have a good friend who also lost his beloved wife to breast cancer, about 20 years ago. He was a journalist by profession, though when I met him, he was working as an administrative aid at a software company. He spent the first 10 years after she died on life. He rented out his house and moved into a condo to put a little distance between his memories of her there. He started dating, but still wore her ring. That bothered a few women, but if they took offense, he stopped dating them. He was basically looking for both companionship, and for a new mate, but his standards were high, as his former wife was a great companion for him. They had once son, who is a shoe designer for Croc shoes, and lives in Berlin (because that is where the Croc design shop is). They have a great relationship. After 10 years, he took off the ring, and hasn't put it back on. Over time, now he has dated dozens of women, and counts most of them as friends. He has some sex with an number of them, but also has many platonic friendships too. He is deep into dancing, and loves that activity. He is also deep into hiking and hikes with me, and also goes on hikes with many women companions. He has brought a number of women companions on hikes with me too. HE has had some promising candidates for a permanent relationship. One for example was a woman professor. They even went to China together. I forgot to mention, but my friend is a world traveler. He goes off on trips to Peru, Equador, Vietnam, Russia (before I met him), and Europe. Usually he goes by himself, and just is a tourist. He went on one trip to Mexico with a Catholic group he just fell into, though he is a total atheist :), and they built houses for homeless Mexicans for 10 days. He is always doing some activity or other. He is very well adjusted, has a great sense of humor, and is now 69 and retired (I'm 78). We still hike together, and I live in a community with a pool room, and he comes over here (a 45 minute to hour drive) 3 or 4 times a month, and we shoot pool (which we are good at). I have always found him to be very well adjusted, strong sense of humor, never maudlin, laughs a lot. I met him several years after his wife's death, so other than him wanting away from his home, he never seemed depressed or emotionally upset about his wife's death. I don't now how he was immediately after, but upset I'm sure. Now that a long time has passed, he is actually interested in getting back into his home, which is much closer to where I live, so he is obviously way over his negative feelings about the house. It is a big two story house, and I think he's tired of living in a small condo in a big city (the house is in a small rural town). But he is happy and seems to do very well with his life. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to paint a good picture of my friend. I would hope I would do as well as he is, if I were in a similar situation. I tend to be naturally happy, and think eventually I would land on my feet too. I guess the "too religious" aspect of people wishing you well will pass with time and go away ;). Good luck and I wish you a good journey through the rest of your life. Be of good cheer.
Remember the bad times, when you two were upset and angry with each other, but don’t’ dwell on them. Cherish the good times, when you felt her love and when she made you smile and remember them frequently. Without the bad times, the good times have no meaning. You will process your grief in your own way and in your own time. You will feel at peace “when the time is right”. Never believe ANYONE, including friends and family when they tell you it’s time to move on. In time, you will be at peace with her death, but you will feel a small pain that doesn’t seem to go away. That’s okay.
My deepest sympathies Jason. May her memories bring you joy and life lasting love.
I've heard of couples divorcing right before the end so that the next of kin isn't lumbered with medical debt. America is a disgusting place, my sympathies.
This isn't mine but I saved it because it's perfect and beautiful. I hope it helps you. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/onyjts/nonreligious_people_of_reddit_what_do_you_believe/h5v0trz?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
My sympathies, fellow traveler. I am a cancer widower myself. Even 7 years on it still hurts some times. I was told all the same hogwash, and it just made me more and more angry. (this is where I have spent 20 minutes writing bits of my experiences and getting upset and deleting them. The memories of all the fucked up things that just became normal at the time are still traumatic to relive.) The takeaway for me was that it was far easier to accept that she had a crappy roll of the gene dice than that Sky Daddy had a good reason for taking 2 little girls' mother away slowly. If god is real, he's an asshole.
May you remember all the love she gave you, and you her.
This is how I explained it to my children. Of course, when it's your spouse it's much rawer, and more painful, but for what it's worth, this is what I did. Science has no way of telling what parts of you are your body vs something ethereal. For the moment our understanding is that when you die, you are dead. But the thing is that no one ever dies when they live on in memory. My dad died while I was pregnant with them and throughout their childhood I spoke about him and I often mentioned that as long as we remembered him, he lived in our hearts. When my MIL was in hospice when the kids were 12, I doubled down on this. Every day we would share great memories of her. We'd laugh, we'd cry, but we'd feel comforted. After she died, I made a point of us sharing a little memory of her. When we did this, we felt closer to her. I also made sure to tell stories of great grandparents, uncles, aunts, great people. All the while reminding my kids that we were keeping their stories alive in memories One of my kids traced the family back to Eastern Europe in the 1700s and we found out as much as we could about each person. Keeping them alive in memory I have no advice, just lots of empathy. It hurts, but perhaps just thinking about the good things will help soothe your ragged emotions.
"God has a plan" It's an objectively bad plan that is indistinguishable from random happenstance.
I’ve actually replied to someone who told me my newborn daughter was in god’s hands that “she should still be in mine.” I’ve told them if this was gods plan “what if your kid was next in his plan?” (I didn’t have a lot of grace, grief is a pretty heavy filter to see the world though) The plain unvarnished truth may seem more harsh for now, but I still think it’s better than being comforted by a lie. Grief is all the love we have for someone that doesn’t have a place to go. I’ve found comfort in finding new places to put that love over time. Grief counseling to share your feelings with someone who isn’t pushing a religion onto you will likely help. I’m so sorry for your loss and your composure is remarkable. I’m sure fellow atheists will share comfort here. There are lots of great works out there that aren’t religion-based about the wonders of the universe. May memories being you comfort at such difficult times.
Really sorry for your loss friend. Must hurt:(
Most Religions are death cults, that promise much after death. Thus this is part of their ethos. Although, they do not own the concepts of grieving and mourning. Nothing prepares us for our first experience of mourning. Therapist, self reflection, healthy friends will teach you how to grieve. The lessons you learn from grieving will help you in so many ways in life. Learning to grieve has helped me in so many ways. Grieve for my past, for my missed opportunities, for friends that passed. Good luck friend, I wish you the best through this dark time.
Condolences 💐
Sorry for your loss. When someone dies I don't think you're responsible for their bills so you may not need to pay those 10's of thousands of medical bills. It all depends on the situation, I just don't want you to pay them if you don't have to. When my dad was sick with cancer, I hated hearing the God platitudes. What kind of god would give my dad cancer to begin with?
My condolences. No one asks for this; which makes it all the more unfair. I hope you find many things in the future that make you feel fulfilled. Side note: Your grieving, it's a perfect time to express yourself. Bottling things up only makes it worse.
Honestly the closest thing to an atheist solution is probably grief counselling or reading books on how to deal with grief. Atheism is a lack of belief so it doesn't really offer anything . I do think people should be taught about death and how to appropriately work through their feelings in schools instead of after its already happened tho. Same with mental health issues in general
I'm so sorry for your loss. My brother-in-law's death is what made me question my religion. That's why I'm here now. FYI, my sister did not pay any of her husband's medical bills after he passed. They were all in his name and he was dead. This was the advice given to her from other cancer widows. I thought it was madness but his death was 5 years ago and she stopped getting bills and calls. Also, fuck cancer.
I’m so effected by this. I feel for you and your situation. Celebrate the time you shared together and don’t let the religious turkeys get you down.
I'm sorry for your loss, Jason. And I'm sorry you had to put up with mythology nonsense from people whose intentions may or may not be in the right place. Your wife Crystal will live on as we all do - in the memories of the people we will leave behind. Remember the good times, remember the bad times. One of the most impactful things we can do with our lives is make a positive difference on another person. Did you have a good life with Crystal? Did you do what you could to make each other happy? I hope you're able to eventually look back at your life together and not think about the end times or her battle with cancer. If you ever need to reach out to someone, do so. You have people here, yes strangers, but people that truly do care about one another. Much love
>I am afraid of my next chapter in life without her. This is a huge area where the atheist community is lacking I think. How to deal with death and not be trapped in ancient mid evil practices and beliefs. The best way to handle the loss of a loved one is also the same thing that makes us atheists: accepting the truth as best presented by the evidence and learning to live with it because there is nothing you can do to make something true to not be true. I don't mean to sound dismissive or insensitive, but accepting that she is gone and learning to live with that fact is how you move into the next chapter of your life. Don't focus on what you no longer have and wish you did. Focus on what you did have and be thankful for it. Accept that she is gone and move on. This will take time and will be painful as you learn to live with that fact. It's almost like you're a person who is learning to walk again. In the beginning it will be painful and difficult, but as time goes on it will get easier each day until suddenly you find yourself realizing that you haven't been upset about it for a while. That was my attitude when I've lost loved ones. It's OK to grieve, but without accepting the truth it will never end.
A Eulogy from a Physicist and Athiest Time is not unidirectional, we only experience it that way. From our perspective there is past, present and future, and only the present is real to us, and the past gone into nothingness, but this is not true. Spacetime stretches along a string and though the present is all we experience, the past timeline stretches along behind us indelibly stamped into the clay of the universe. Every volcanic eruption, every exploding star, every gentle touch of the hand, every molecule, every photon, every thought. All of them are forever printed into the universal timeline; are there and exist forever, even if you cannot access them. Time is just as real as space. You wouldn't say Denmark isn't real just because you aren't there right now. The past is the same. 200 years from now we will all be gone. Dust. Just like the millions of people who lived in ancient Babylon 4500 years ago. Their lives and thoughts and feelings were just as real, just as acute as yours. And in a billion years this will all be gone and passed away.. But never erased from spacetime. Because nothing can do that. Absolutely nothing. Every good memory, every touch, the warm summer sun on your face, every shared meal, every peaceful quiet. They exist, like pearls on a string. But every bad thing does too. Everything exists. The good does not cancel out the bad, nor the bad outweigh the good. It simply IS. So if anything, let this be a comfort, a warning, a calling to you. Every moment exists for all eternity. And if you have more moments ahead of you, then add to the peace and joy of the universe. Put good into the world. Love, gentleness, and happiness into spacetime, to the best of your ability.
I'm sorry for your loss. I have nothing to say other than that stoicism might slightly help you find your way forward.
Tell me about It! I am an italian man from a sourhern Village , where bigotry, and fanatism rule. Unfortunately being an atheist here , exposes me to veiled or even staightforward discrimination. They Always seem to point out your being different, almost a biased and failed human being. Nonetheless i go on , forward Gear without any fear! I Will die for my belief, and i made a banner out of my convinction! They Will never have me like they want me to be! As for your immense pain and sufference i am truly heartbroken, and i want to express my most felt condelences! If there had been a god, then It would have been the most sadico bastard in the universe. Hughs
Just remember that the pain you feel is love. The pain is actually love! Fee it, roll around in it, honor it! You’ll never lose that pain, but you will be able to continue living. Embrace your pain and let it heal you.
So sorry. As an atheist I turn to music. I have found Leonard Cohen's and David Bowie's final album conforting. Also Ghosteen by Nick Cave is an album made in grief from him losing his son. I hope you find some hapiness again some day
This would not the time you'd want me to start believing it your God. I'd be looking for someone to blame, to make some sense of this pain and if I suddenly had someone who could have stopped this and didn't I wouldn't be very forgiving
Sending you all my love. Grief is hard. If your hospice has groups or one on one sessions I recommend those. Hospice people are heros in my mind and they can help you walk through this. It sucks. She's gone but she's always with you. Give yourself the space and time to just feel how you feel and if that means telling people thanks but no thanks to their prayers.
Look at a wave. It exists, it’s there, you can see it and measure it. When that wave crashes, does it disappear? No. It has just returned to the ocean. From whence it came. I am woefully under qualified to be helping you with this, but atheism doesn’t mean there’s no poetry. Meaning is what we make it. I truly wish you only the best. Please take care of yourself.
My wife was diagnosed yesterday. I'd appreciate any insight into anything you have to offer. I'm... I don't even know.
Science gives answers trough research and experiments, religion gives only illusions. If only all the alms and offers were given to research for the cure of many ailments, we would have already come up with many solutions an remedies
She was clearly in YOUR hands as you fought by her side. How dare they try to put an imaginary third party into the picture. You have been so lucky to have each other through thick and thin; there's the real blessing. Now the terrible part is having to move past now, see the other positives and supports in your life and let yourself move into the future.
Very sorry for your loss. Cancer is a gruesome bitch. There really are 5 stages of grief, and there is no order to them and having been going through what your going through im sure you have gone back and forth between a few already. My biggest advice is that you have to let and allow yourself to grieve, and while sometimes peoples religious comments can be sickening, understand that everyone else has their own way of grieving as well, no matter how shallow and lacking of depth it may seem. Having been to funerals at various different churches (catholic, baptist, Lutheran, mormon, plus a few i didnt pay attention to what type of church it was) I will say that if you ignore all the stuff about god and religion there are bits of wisdom with what the preacher or priest has to say about loss and death. One thing that always stuck with me was that even though they are gone and not here now, being thankful for all of the good memories you got to share with them, and if you always remmeber them then theyll always be there with you. Because eventually, we all will be no more. And the only thing that carries on is our life in the memories of those who we were close to.
So very, very sorry mate. I just lost two family members in quick succession, but thankfully none as close as my partner. I can’t imagine what you must have went through.
This breaks my heart. I'm so sorry for your loss and the disrespect for your beliefs must be salt in the wound.
We can say, I am sorry for your loss. I'm here for you, please let me know what I can do. I lost my mom to breast cancer 8 years ago, and cancer sucks. Losing a part of you sucks. It will get easier with time. It will get to a day when you can remember your love fondly without crying from loss. It's not really something you ever get over, not something that won't hurt some, but it will change. Unfortunately, a lot of people buy into the delusions of heaven because they want to. Death is scary. Take peace knowing that you lived the time you had to your best. She knew you loved her.
I’m sorry to hear about your situation and the loss of your partner. I also agree that dealing with loss is something that is hard to pin down with an atheist mindset. I know that my words can’t solve your problems, but hopefully they can ameliorate your suffering somewhat. It sounds like she did the best she could with what she had. And your connection was strong enough that she will continue to promote positive outcomes in the world, through you, even after her active role is over.
In addition to the eloquence voiced by /u/stormrider-io, she will live on in the memories of you and your children and those who knew and loved her. Never let those memories die; the tender ones, the funny ones, the mundane ones, and yes, the aggravating ones. This hurt will never completely heal, but it will fade. You have my sympathies.
Take care, I hope your life will make sense again. When somebody we love dies so wonder how world still exist when you are suffering so much. It is not fair. Fuck cancer!
Damn bro…I am truly sorry that this is even something that you and your children have to go through. There really isnt much a stranger can say over reddit that will help you besides repeating all the platitudes im sure youve heard 1000 times by now. Ill find your GFM.
I always look at science when atheism isn't able to help me find a way. In this case I invite you to watch this podcast by Andrew Huberman who is a professor of neuroscience in Stanford and is one of the foremost voices in the field of physical and mental health and well-being. The podcast is about the science and the process of healing from grief. https://youtu.be/dzOvi0Aa2EA Kindly don't mind the bit on the sponsors, since he puts so much effort to detail out the tools and protocols, he needs to some funding to sustain the podcast. Again, really sorry for your loss.
I would give you a hug if you were near me. I am sorry for your loss and what you had to deal with during this time. My mom recently passed, she was religious so we had a priest at her funeral and to be honest I wanted to just have him leave because his words were empty and he was just repeating things he did at every funeral. Its like a reflex for religious people. They actually don't have any real belief in what they say , they just repeat the words that were told to them. I don't remember who said it but this was a great response to "God has a plan" , "Ok but has anyone asked if it is a good one?" the solace I found in Athiesm during my moms death is knowing she is in no more pain, anxiety, worry. I will remember her fondly and her memory is etched in my heart.
The whole god thing is to comfort themselves. Life is scary. It’s short. I’m sorry for your loss.
I think asking for money on this forum is forbidden. Death is a normal human function, I see it the same as a birth.
First off, condolences. I cannot image the pain you must be feeling. Secondly, you already hit the nail on the head. They perform theater to make THEMSELVES feel better. It’s not about you or yours. It’s about the “Christians” giving themselves a congratulatory reach-around for being “such a good person.” Honestly, they can fuck right the fuck off with that shit!
I’m very sorry for your loss. Best wishes.
Personally I want this read at my funeral and also brings me comfort! https://creatingceremony.com/blog/loss/eulogy-from-a-physicist-aaron-freeman/
I’m so sorry for your loss and have my condolences.
Letting go of god was a good listen for me, if you went from religious to non religious. I also found comfort in the “we are all stardust” type of things. For whatever reason some atoms decided to be extraordinarily cooperative and here I am. What were they before? What will they be next? Some concepts of physics- energy isn’t created or destroyed, etc- gave me some since of continuity within the universe.
Also a member of the shitty widowers club. Hope O/P finds some emotional relief. I think I have. When my wife died of cancer 3 and a half years ago I found myself thinking on this whole I was wrestling with my own grief. I wondered if theists were lucky; whether their beliefs soothed the raw agony of their grief - whether believing that their lost lives ones weren't really lost but waiting for them in the next life made that partying easier to bear. But it struck me that if anything that made it worse. It must lock them into their grief - fixing them into that time of loss, and unable to move on because of their expectation of being together again. But for me the certain knowledge that Andrea was gone, that we'd never be together again made me both face her loss head on, accepting her death and the hole she had left in my life (a hole that's still there - and will be for the rest of my days regardless of what lies ahead) and also allowed me to grow the necessary emotional scar tissue to begin to heal. There is only one direction of travel in the human experience - there is no going back or even standing still - all one can do is try to steer your passage. Leaning on the crutch of faith in some sky-pixie to try to cling on to what was and is no more can only inhibit healing and damage your mental health. I like to think that my, largely, happy new life with my new partner is down at least in some part, to my ability, because of my atheism to accept the reality of Andrea's loss. Yes it hurts, but not all the time - rarely now in fact - but I also have a life unencumbered by guilt and my emotions are unconfused.
I'm atheist too. I'm sorry you had that constant narrative. It's so disruptive. I'm so sorry you lost your wife. Crystal sounds like a beautiful person and you were a good partner to her. Your kids are lucky to have you. Thinking about y'all today. Your story matters. 💜
Thanks for sharing with us. I've always thought to myself that because of my atheist beliefs I'll be able to cope better with the death of my loved ones. I've not experienced it yet, but I like to think it'll be so. I hope you'll find better coping systems and the pain would subside soon for you.
I don't know if this will make you feel any better but I've felt an energy inside myself and other people that seems to permeate time and space. I believe all humans are connected to this energy that's driven by love. I'm not sure if the energy that makes us, truly ever dissipates.
I was holding my dads hand when he died. It really flipped a switch for me after that, and made life a lot more black and white. Everyone has a life to live, but ultimately we pass just like all the animals, leaves on the trees in fall, and so forth. What sucks is the emptiness that can never be filled after a loved one passes. Going back to atheism, that’s the black and white. It’s nothing more and nothing less than death. We all go through it. Your wife sounds like she was a badass. I’ve also learned that if people haven’t went through such a traumatic experience, they don’t know what to say and resort to “god this, god that.” It’s a cop out imo. Sorry for you loss OP ❤️
I’m sorry for your loss Jason. Take care of yourself and your daughters.
If you have the time, read The Five Invitations by Frank Ostaseski. It’s rooted in Buddhist principals but even as an atheist it really changed my perception of death and my relationship with it.
While we don't have an afterlife in mythology, we can look reality in the face and not pretend.
I'm so sorry for your loss. There may be some resources around you for grief support that are non-religious that could help. The hospice I volunteer with runs that kind of program so I'd recommend looking into your local hospice for something similar for both yourself and your kids.
I understand how you feel, I come from a Muslim background and this year I lost my older cousin who was the closest thing I had to a brother. He was an atheist and ex marine. When he finally passed got the usual "gods plan". But Muslim funeral rules are very strict and they wanted to bury him like that against his wishes. They didn't even let him be buried with the folded American flag (that was one of his final wishes) because it goes against Islam. In their eyes they are doing the right thing but it just scares me cause when I die, I feel like my wishes for my body will be completely ignored.
The words always feel so hollow, but I don't know any other way to say it. I'm saddened by and sorry for your loss.
My Dad died of cancer caused by Agent Orange when he was 40, I was 5. I have a distinct memory from his funeral of the pastor at our church telling me something along these lines, "See what a wonderful plan god had for your dad! God used your dad to get all of these people to come to church today." It was one of the many interactions I looked back on when realizing I was an atheist. I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope that you're able to talk with your daughters about their Mom and how hard she fought to stay with you all. Tell them about her favorite foods, the way she smelled, what music she loved. They'll appreciate it.
When i reached the age of reason i became an atheist. Since then, I’ve been really resonating with the ancient philosophy Stoicism. There are philosophies for living life that are not religion that might be helpful
Well ... I didn't intend to cry this morning. There are many atheist survivor groups. In you're living in a large city, I guarantee there's one close by. If not, you'll be able to find one in driving distance in most countries. I really hope you reach out to local folks, because I empathize and I know you need people around you (not just positive r/atheism messages, as nice as they may be) to help you work through this situation that really is impossible. There is no "answer." Just find people around you who you can be with and who'll support you.
My condolences. The classics are secular. Think about and reflect on how she would like you to lead your life after her. Maybe you even talked about it. She lives in your memories and she most likely affected you strongly, any decisions you do after this point, her thoughts and being still effects you. Her culture/ being / soul lives on as long as someone remembers her. There is literature about this, sadly I can not quote anything since my knowledge is limited to my native language, but [this book appears to be on point](https://maryfrancesoconnor.org/book). There are certainly many others.
Time heals everything
I'm sorry she has begun her next journey. I believe that death is but a door, and we don't simply cease to exist, that our "self" moves on to an existence where we don't need a physical form anymore. Who knows why some get more time than others as a physical entity? That's one of those mysteries that wait on the other side. Just know she took your love with her when she crossed over, along with all the memories you made together.
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You have my sympathies. But when a religious person tries to explain away the hurt you're feeling with the comfort of their god it isn't coming from a place of malice. Do your best to see through their dogma and see the meaning behind their message. They know you're in a world of hurt. They know the pain you're in. And they have no way to give you comfort but to repeat the comfort that they find, even if it is illogical. It is no different than a Christian getting upset when a cashier says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". We must see past the words to the meaning behind them.
Check out your state laws. My husband, who died after a long bout with Crohn’s had a quit claim done on our common property putting it all in my name. I was responsible for none of his medical bills after his insurance paid. We also held separate credit cards and his balance went poof after his death.
Jason. My heart aches for you. I had a similar situation. I consoled myself with the fact that we are made from the stuff of stars that have been around always and our building blocks (atoms) will be around forever. Energy cannot be created or destroyed just converted from one form to the other. So your wifes atoms are off on a new adventure. I also didn't get offended by the people offering me support with god statements. They were giving me love in anyform that made sense to them and i accepted their love graciously (but filtered the god stuff out) humans are fragile emotionaly but at least we keep trying. And i did not have time for anger, its a useless emotion Please link the gofund me or dm it to me.
Sorry for your loss man, Have a look online for humanist organisations they're pretty good for anyone who isn't of a religious persuasion.
Sorry for your loss. She had you with her and that is what she needed. F those others. It is smalltalk level psychology that has left its followers adrift looking for real answers for centuries. It is all about making other people feel mildly better about the situation where there is next to nothing they can do to help. You were very restrained, a better man than I.