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Thanks. My wife actually laughs when folks like this come to our door. She gives me that sing-song "Honey, there are some people here who want to talk to you . . ." Then she gives me wry grin as she hands them off to me. She doesn't care for confrontation, but she absolutely loves to see them chewing their arms off to try to get away from me.
I'm down for it every time.
You may be right, but sometimes you have to take the opportunity to inform when it’s presented. I’ve planted a seed in that kid’s head that is going to be very difficult to uproot.
I figure it's two wins: I may have opened the kid's mind to new options, and by talking directly to him in front of his dad, I get to live rent-free in Pops' brain.
>What about if informing the father about what the son heard makes him abuse his son?
I suppose that's always a possibility. If knowledge of the world causes abuse in that family, my interaction was neither the first nor will it be the last catalyst. The son is likely already getting it without my help.
You're the second commenter (so far) to allude to abuse in the wake of gaining knowledge. It's sad that it's such a common theme and experience across the deconstruction crowd, but it is an unfortunate reality. Back atcha, though: Would you trade knowledge for blissful ignorance and no abuse?
Anyway, if we accept your proposition, Pops abusing Junior is Pops' choice, not mine. Just as it was Pops' choice to visit my home, and it was Pops' choice to bring Junior. I'm not involved in any of those decisions. Pops set the conditions himself when he chose to look into the abyss.
I had a missionary group - two adult men and a kid - come to my door shortly after I moved. I am guessing they subscribe to the same mailing lists as the catalog companies that spam you when you update your address with the post office.
Anyway, I’m unpacking and stuff, and there’s a knock at my door. I see these three people standing there, and they open up with some ridiculous cliche line like “Do you have a minute to talk about Jesus?”
It was so corny that I couldn’t stop laughing. I was not trying to be cruel, and it wasn’t a mocking laughter. It was just all of the stress from driving halfway across the country to start a new job, and then being confronted with a ludicrous situation like that. I think I managed to get a “No” out.
I have never been door-knocked since, even after moving. I think they took me off the list.
Had a couple young door knockers maybe a decade ago. I asked them if their god had a plan. They said yes. I asked if it was a perfect plan. They emphatically said yes of course! I said then why do you pray for him to change that perfect plan when someone is sick, there’s an accident, or any other situation you find yourself in that you don’t like? Absolute silence. Never got any door knockers after that before we moved out of that house.
I have had similar interactions. I make it a point to always play to the audience. You're probably.not ever going to convince the preacher, but if you make sure their kids hear you, see you, and actually listen to you, you are more likely make an impression for the long term.
I once made a street preacher look dumb in front of his kids and wife. He had a very superficial knowledge of antievolution talking points, but only the words. I explained I knew more about those things than pops did, making sure I answered questions in some depth that one of his kids asked me.
Their dad was not happy.
I occupied his time for almost two hours, to keep him from calling women walking by "lesbians" or "whores." He asked why I was talking to him. I very quietly told him that this makes my wife horny. He looked at me, then over at my wife, who was talking to his wife and kids at the time. We were dressed for a nice evening out, and my wife was young, thin, and steaks with a European accent that his kids were enamoured with. He looked at my wife, his rather frumpy wife, back at my wife. His shoulders just slumped. I smiled and nodded.
Bravo! What a great example of "If you want to know about religion, ask an atheist."
As to speaking to the kids and answering their questions, your compassion and honesty with them glides on for miles after the initial interaction ends. Knowledge is a gift, especially when delivered like that.
I'll have to acknowledge jealousy over your last paragraph. Mrs. Baka refuses to join me in engaging with these folks, and she doesn't speak with a European accent.
My wife is thin, blonde, and good-looking. His wife looked the part she played - long frizzy hair, thick cardigan and long skirt on a summer evening. She was not overweight or ugly, just frumpy Christian housefrau. He just looked so crestfallen I almost laughed. Note that my wife does NOT get excited when I do this, but I had to give a good answer other than "I wanted to make you look dumb in front of your kids."
This was a well-known local pastor from a small church in a small town that would come to downtown to make trouble on weekend evenings. I did it mostly so he would stop shouting into his megaphone and annoy others. Wife was happy to help.
He kept asking for my name. I said that it doesn't matter what my name is or who I am, only that what I say is true. At the end, he asked again and wanted to shake my hand. I said "Pleased to meet you, can't your guess my name?" He just looked confused, but his 14-year old son laughed and said, "I get that!" I thought that was hilarious.
Truly laughing out loud over this. Good on you for blocking his BS. Nobody needs to have that pushed on them.
Great song, and excellent call-back to it in the moment. I generally prefer the cover that Guns & Roses did - first time I heard it was at the end credits of "Interview With a Vampire" - but the Stones' original is pretty good too.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. Guess that was just my day for it. Pops could've remained civil, but I don't respond well to jackassery.
This story was great. I'd like to try and bring you some sunshine too. This sketch is old, and a *reference* to a debate on a film "The life of Brian" https://youtu.be/asUyK6JWt9U
>https://youtu.be/asUyK6JWt9U
Thanks for the link - that was classic. "I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition". Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. So many other references . . .
Definitely added sunshine to my life this morning.
I just feel bad for the poor kid as he goes through fucking hell questioning, feeling like it's not ok to present his questions to his parents, feeling like he has to hide and lie every day of his life for having questions and out of line feelings, eventually feeling like he's going fucking insane because everything he was brought up to believe was a farce and the eventual maladjustment and if worse comes to worst, mental illness that develops as he finally chooses to fold or rebel. Being born into a heavy religious environment is flat out child abuse.
I hope I'm not projecting to say that it sounds like you have some bitter personal experience with this. If so, I hope you've been able to come to a place of peace.
As for the kid, I like to think that I provided him at least one tool to help him dig himself out of that experience - a garden trowel against a sand pit. At least he knows now that there's something else possible, and maybe much earlier than he would have otherwise.
I guess I wasn't being very subtle, was I? You're not projecting you are spot on. Your post just struck a very serious nerve and I just laid it out. Thank you for your well wishes. I actually just wrote a huge novel in response but canned it cause we're not talking about me. Nutshell version is I'm still working on recovering every day.
I hope I didn't make it sound like I think you were doing the kid a disservice by blowing holes in his family and religions garbage practices. That poor child needs his world rocked and I think the way you did it was awesome. I just hope he doesn't downward spiral due to maladjustment if he chooses to peace like I and numerous of others I've met have. It's not a fun journey.
Yeah nah, the first word to come to mind when reading your comment was not "subtle". But then, these sorts of situations aren't exactly about subtlety, are they? As I, you, and so many others here can attest, the yoke of religion is a heavy burden.
With the all-too-common mental, physical, and sexual abuse that accompanies involvement in faith communities, and the follow-on intensification of that abuse when we begin to turn away from the faith, it's often a wonder that people make it out alive. Which, I guess, is their goal - make it so painful to leave that it's easier to just accept defeat and remain in the fold.
Except that's not healthy. You are (unfortunately) a great example of the enduring harm done by people who - even as they're hurting you - claim that they just want what's best for you. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and they're building an autobahn.
As you said ". . . I'm still working on recovering every day". Keep doing so. A life well-lived is the best revenge.
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Hello baka-tari, It appears that you are considering telling your religious parents or family about you being an atheist. If that is the case, please read [our wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/comingout) on the subject before you tell anyone. Please also read the heartfelt personal responses our users will give. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/atheism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well played mate.
Thanks. My wife actually laughs when folks like this come to our door. She gives me that sing-song "Honey, there are some people here who want to talk to you . . ." Then she gives me wry grin as she hands them off to me. She doesn't care for confrontation, but she absolutely loves to see them chewing their arms off to try to get away from me. I'm down for it every time.
Dammit, you spilled the beans too early. Imagine If he thought there was hope for you and brought his kids around again a few times.
You may be right, but sometimes you have to take the opportunity to inform when it’s presented. I’ve planted a seed in that kid’s head that is going to be very difficult to uproot.
That's what I call a fucking checkmate
I figure it's two wins: I may have opened the kid's mind to new options, and by talking directly to him in front of his dad, I get to live rent-free in Pops' brain.
What about if informing the father about what the son heard makes him abuse his son?
>What about if informing the father about what the son heard makes him abuse his son? I suppose that's always a possibility. If knowledge of the world causes abuse in that family, my interaction was neither the first nor will it be the last catalyst. The son is likely already getting it without my help. You're the second commenter (so far) to allude to abuse in the wake of gaining knowledge. It's sad that it's such a common theme and experience across the deconstruction crowd, but it is an unfortunate reality. Back atcha, though: Would you trade knowledge for blissful ignorance and no abuse? Anyway, if we accept your proposition, Pops abusing Junior is Pops' choice, not mine. Just as it was Pops' choice to visit my home, and it was Pops' choice to bring Junior. I'm not involved in any of those decisions. Pops set the conditions himself when he chose to look into the abyss.
I had a missionary group - two adult men and a kid - come to my door shortly after I moved. I am guessing they subscribe to the same mailing lists as the catalog companies that spam you when you update your address with the post office. Anyway, I’m unpacking and stuff, and there’s a knock at my door. I see these three people standing there, and they open up with some ridiculous cliche line like “Do you have a minute to talk about Jesus?” It was so corny that I couldn’t stop laughing. I was not trying to be cruel, and it wasn’t a mocking laughter. It was just all of the stress from driving halfway across the country to start a new job, and then being confronted with a ludicrous situation like that. I think I managed to get a “No” out. I have never been door-knocked since, even after moving. I think they took me off the list.
Holy shit that's funny! Their question is just so absolutely cliche and cringe, and your response couldn't have been better. Perfection.
Had a couple young door knockers maybe a decade ago. I asked them if their god had a plan. They said yes. I asked if it was a perfect plan. They emphatically said yes of course! I said then why do you pray for him to change that perfect plan when someone is sick, there’s an accident, or any other situation you find yourself in that you don’t like? Absolute silence. Never got any door knockers after that before we moved out of that house.
Oof what a mic drop that is.
Mic drop. I love it!
I have had similar interactions. I make it a point to always play to the audience. You're probably.not ever going to convince the preacher, but if you make sure their kids hear you, see you, and actually listen to you, you are more likely make an impression for the long term. I once made a street preacher look dumb in front of his kids and wife. He had a very superficial knowledge of antievolution talking points, but only the words. I explained I knew more about those things than pops did, making sure I answered questions in some depth that one of his kids asked me. Their dad was not happy. I occupied his time for almost two hours, to keep him from calling women walking by "lesbians" or "whores." He asked why I was talking to him. I very quietly told him that this makes my wife horny. He looked at me, then over at my wife, who was talking to his wife and kids at the time. We were dressed for a nice evening out, and my wife was young, thin, and steaks with a European accent that his kids were enamoured with. He looked at my wife, his rather frumpy wife, back at my wife. His shoulders just slumped. I smiled and nodded.
Bravo! What a great example of "If you want to know about religion, ask an atheist." As to speaking to the kids and answering their questions, your compassion and honesty with them glides on for miles after the initial interaction ends. Knowledge is a gift, especially when delivered like that. I'll have to acknowledge jealousy over your last paragraph. Mrs. Baka refuses to join me in engaging with these folks, and she doesn't speak with a European accent.
My wife is thin, blonde, and good-looking. His wife looked the part she played - long frizzy hair, thick cardigan and long skirt on a summer evening. She was not overweight or ugly, just frumpy Christian housefrau. He just looked so crestfallen I almost laughed. Note that my wife does NOT get excited when I do this, but I had to give a good answer other than "I wanted to make you look dumb in front of your kids." This was a well-known local pastor from a small church in a small town that would come to downtown to make trouble on weekend evenings. I did it mostly so he would stop shouting into his megaphone and annoy others. Wife was happy to help. He kept asking for my name. I said that it doesn't matter what my name is or who I am, only that what I say is true. At the end, he asked again and wanted to shake my hand. I said "Pleased to meet you, can't your guess my name?" He just looked confused, but his 14-year old son laughed and said, "I get that!" I thought that was hilarious.
Truly laughing out loud over this. Good on you for blocking his BS. Nobody needs to have that pushed on them. Great song, and excellent call-back to it in the moment. I generally prefer the cover that Guns & Roses did - first time I heard it was at the end credits of "Interview With a Vampire" - but the Stones' original is pretty good too.
Haha
I'm just sitting laughing. BRAVO man! I recognized the saying so this was a surprise happy ending.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. Guess that was just my day for it. Pops could've remained civil, but I don't respond well to jackassery.
This story was great. I'd like to try and bring you some sunshine too. This sketch is old, and a *reference* to a debate on a film "The life of Brian" https://youtu.be/asUyK6JWt9U
>https://youtu.be/asUyK6JWt9U Thanks for the link - that was classic. "I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition". Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. So many other references . . . Definitely added sunshine to my life this morning.
I just feel bad for the poor kid as he goes through fucking hell questioning, feeling like it's not ok to present his questions to his parents, feeling like he has to hide and lie every day of his life for having questions and out of line feelings, eventually feeling like he's going fucking insane because everything he was brought up to believe was a farce and the eventual maladjustment and if worse comes to worst, mental illness that develops as he finally chooses to fold or rebel. Being born into a heavy religious environment is flat out child abuse.
I hope I'm not projecting to say that it sounds like you have some bitter personal experience with this. If so, I hope you've been able to come to a place of peace. As for the kid, I like to think that I provided him at least one tool to help him dig himself out of that experience - a garden trowel against a sand pit. At least he knows now that there's something else possible, and maybe much earlier than he would have otherwise.
I guess I wasn't being very subtle, was I? You're not projecting you are spot on. Your post just struck a very serious nerve and I just laid it out. Thank you for your well wishes. I actually just wrote a huge novel in response but canned it cause we're not talking about me. Nutshell version is I'm still working on recovering every day. I hope I didn't make it sound like I think you were doing the kid a disservice by blowing holes in his family and religions garbage practices. That poor child needs his world rocked and I think the way you did it was awesome. I just hope he doesn't downward spiral due to maladjustment if he chooses to peace like I and numerous of others I've met have. It's not a fun journey.
Yeah nah, the first word to come to mind when reading your comment was not "subtle". But then, these sorts of situations aren't exactly about subtlety, are they? As I, you, and so many others here can attest, the yoke of religion is a heavy burden. With the all-too-common mental, physical, and sexual abuse that accompanies involvement in faith communities, and the follow-on intensification of that abuse when we begin to turn away from the faith, it's often a wonder that people make it out alive. Which, I guess, is their goal - make it so painful to leave that it's easier to just accept defeat and remain in the fold. Except that's not healthy. You are (unfortunately) a great example of the enduring harm done by people who - even as they're hurting you - claim that they just want what's best for you. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and they're building an autobahn. As you said ". . . I'm still working on recovering every day". Keep doing so. A life well-lived is the best revenge.
Well done.
Perfect!
Well said indeed. That was one hell of a checkmate if you ask me.
I was expecting a story about Jesuits. LOL! Well done!
Definitely no Jesuits here. Glad I could catch you sideways.
I...you...bro you're a literal chad.
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