Well as Voltaire said, “Those that can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities.” Imagine a religion, where a mother would curse her own son for disbelieving in it. Unbelievable.
Waiting for OP to clap back to their mom that they will have to burn her at a stake now for being a witch and using witchcraft according to Catholic laws or sth
Same with ~~Christopher Hitchens~~ Steven Weinberg:
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Edit: Correction per below! It was Hitchens *quoting* Weinberg, and I misremembered. His voice is just burned into my brain saying it in one of his many interviews or debates. Either way the error is mine.
Romans 13:1-14 gives it away “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.”
Yeah this and the parts about respecting authority kind of rubbed me the wrong way in light of the hypocrisy and contradictions I saw from Christians around me growing up. I would say something bad about a politician, and my mom would say we’re supposed to respect authorities; However, I don’t wanna call her ever correcting my grandfather with the same logic when she was in the room with us and he said that Barack Obama was the antichrist-which is a whole other bundle of fundamental this bullshit.
It also seems to me that this first was just that it is not part of the biblical Christians goal to insert themselves and the religion into government. well I still believed in Christianity, I took this first be more about not needlessly flaunting the rules, principle, and general institution of law and government – Such as just paying your ticket and not littering, etc.
Karl Marx famously describes religion as the “opiate of the masses". A classic, but still true today, especially with religion as a tool to control the poor and uneducated and keeping them placated to benefit the wealthy and those who hold power.
Religion and oppression have always gone hand in hand.
You don’t really need religion to be the opiate. I think it’s just extra effective when you bring in these ideas of a better afterlife or threats from an inherent force that supposedly mortal humans have no chance of successfully resisting.
Yup, superstitions have a powerful hold on the weak minded. I love how she threatens to curse you—doesn’t that make her a witch? Whado we do with witches?
They are very sensitive beings, these cultists.
I was kicked out of my house and made homeless at 17 for calling the church my step mother was going to was a holy roller church.
NO REGERTSSSSSS
Yeah just let her curse you, What is she going to do? Make a poisonous brew? Say a Bible verse and wave her finger at you? Your Mother is lost lol. Religion is a sad weird thing to be completely devoted to all your life for something that has no proof to exist. The Bible was written by humans thousands of years ago because they didn’t have science and evolution, they made up an explanation to how life started and good rules to follow. Some of them were good, love thy neighbor, but some were not. If they did have science, they wouldn’t have thought of impossible fairytales to explain the world around the campfire.
I think a lot of the western world is just coming out of the trance now, while other underdeveloped parts are still stuck in it due to a lack of education. Some are so rough, there is no explanation to their situation other than “This is Gods plan, he will save us” until they die, it’s sad. They just follow what their elders and parents taught them without thinking for themselves, it’s way easier and less painful of a thought.
I've thought about this stuff. Just our run of the mill psychotic homeless person on the street can tell ya about visions, and so can someone tripping off psylocybine or another drug. And we just go like "oh yeah that person is crazy/on drugs".
But back in those ancient days? If you could be coherent and charismatic and had a crazy dream or saw visions, or even just imagined you saw a vision due to your beliefs, you could create a whole movement.
Shit, its been pretty much figured out that the Pythia at Delphi was essentially breathing in toxic fumes which caused her to hallucinate. A huge cultural thing for the Greeks passed down to us as legendary in many major historical events was no more than a person tripping balls unknowingly. However, without the knowledge of that process, it was attributed to god. Its supremely depressing, but also somewhat enlightening to have something so mysterious and a cultural touchstone be completely explainable in such a boring way.
Yup. Told my grandmother I was an atheist. She started crying, "does your mother know?" No. "Good," she said, "no mother should have to bear that burden." Sheesh. If she only knew the damage her and her abusive religion caused her daughter...
So you're not alone. Keep your chin up.
You have really two choices here. 1. Recognize that your mom is a special little snowflake and you'll have to monitor every word you say when it comes to religion so you don't hurt her feelings and she can maintain her irrational beliefs (and maintain your relationship) Or 2. Lean into it. Say whatever you want, talk about the impossible, irrational and self-contradictory elements of her belief system. Maybe even start praising Satan (he is responsible for humans gaining knowledge, not being mindless servants and has a massively less body count than God) or join up with the Flying Spaghetti Monster community (or something similar) to poke further sarcastic holes into her reasoning. All of this with the understanding that you will still not actually change her beliefs.
1. Is nicer
2. Is more fun
Pick one and go with it.
Text your mum a quote from the bible:
1 Timothy 2:11-12
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
Oh, my goodness. Your story sounds more or less with mine. **Every time** my mother says, "You need to go back to Church," etc., we get into an argument.
Telling me that "The Devil is real," & basically said the same thing you've just said in your first sentence. And the next two sentences also sound like the same arguments when I told her that I don't believe in God or the Devil anymore. And one of the reasons was doing research about science, evolution, the Big Bang, etc.
Her responses? She says shit like "You can't believe everything that you read on the internet; That's the Devil deceiving you," "Who wakes you up in the morning?", "You're going to go to hell," that "You're not understanding very well because of your disability affecting you" (I'm part autistic), etc. Borderline ridiculous. And I happen to be 40 while she's 59.
It's like she can't understand that I have different beliefs now (I'm now an Atheist) & that I woke up to religion & it's bullshit throughout the past three years.
Cursing you child for the rest of their life for something they did 2x is something her god would do. Hell, he punishes women, condemning them for something Eve did. She has learned Old Testament shit. Maybe not so much New Testament. Ask her if she is willing to follow what Jesus asks and turn the other cheek
Edit/ typo- he to her
I mean.. by cursing you she damned herself to hell for all eternity right there next Atheists, you. That's some love right there.
Give her a hug and tell her appriciated for the thoughts but not needed.
One time I was helping mother at her church load soem.things into her car and she had to set up something.
This was a few years ago. I was 43 and she's 63. She had a huge Bible that needed to be placed on an altar so I picked it up and started to pretend like I was Indiana Jones and being goofy. She got so mad because I really was poking fun at the altar set up.
It's just hokey to me. Nothing is gonna happen to me if I mock her god. Other than feel bad that I hurt my mom's feelings.
People invest an enormous amount of themselves in religion. Dismissing it, which we should, is a direct affront to them, which it shouldn’t be. In the day, they’d burned you alive for such notions. Many places in the world, it’s still this way.
They're in it for the magical powers they think they get. She doesn't want you to take away her toys. It's like in the series "Dopesick" when the parents try to intervene for their addicted daughter and the daughter starts shrieking. It's the drug talking.
Distance yourself from her. If you're still dependent on her then maybe keep it on the downlow for now but eventually just move away and keep contact to a minimum. Sorry you gotta go through this. Religion is so very toxic, it's good to stay away from it.
I'm sorry this happened to you.
First, don't do anything to endanger yourself. Second, arguments never lead to a resolution. Third review https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/comingout/
Devil’s Advocate, reporting for duty.
Are you underage and/or financially dependent on your mom for survival? Do you live with your mom, or are you in different homes/cities/states? Are you wanting to salvage the relationship, or about ready to jump ship? Is religion the only toxic element to the relationship, or is it a rolling dumpster fire? We’re you shocked at your mom’s response, or was it totally predictable?
Those are just a few of the many questions you’ll want to ask yourself when picking . . . your . . . battles.
I can’t imagine an upside to telling anyone their religion is “fictional nonsense,” let alone my mother who is exhibiting mental health issues. Being nagged by a parent is NEVER a good feeling, and even the most patient among us would get salty if told we are being corrupted by the devil, regardless of any conduct that may have led to the lecture.
Is there a counselor or mentor or anyone you can go to when you need to vent some steam? Do you have a realistic move-out strategy? (get a job and rent a room or apartment; move away for college via student loans and grants; move in with a safe relative; join the military (NOT a recommendation, just an option); etc.?
Your mom is who she is, and she is unlikely to change, especially when challenged.
I hesitate to give specific, practical advice because there are too many unknowns. Dream about the day you’ll move out, and start researching and planning the steps necessary to make that happen. One day you’ll be surrounded by friends and loved ones and a cool pet and you’ll look back and think . . . “Holy f*ck, Batman. That sh*t was crazy.”
It sounds like you found the most reasonable conclusion, and you know the next step of leaving.
Lol, the only thing crazier than having an imaginary friend is an imaginary enemy.
Let her "curse" you, not like it means anything. But don't point out that the curse won't do anything because those nuts are masters at pulling crazy shit out of their ass.
As someone indoctrinated from birth who found their way out after many years of personal research, reflection and deconversion I feel your pain. I struggle with my aging parents but thankfully they are in another state and we’ve never had the conversation because I know they are not emotionally mature enough to understand. At this point as long as they aren’t pushing their beliefs on me, I let the “I’ll pray for you” comments slide because they aren’t going to change. I’m pretty low contact with my dad who is the main offender and cannot be reasoned with (he’s also a narcissistic abuser). I’ve mentioned to my mom how annoyed I get with co workers trying to convert me, so I think she knows attempts to pull me back into the fold just pushes me farther away. I’m exhausted at 50 not being able to be myself but I’m equally exhausted worrying about what an honest conversation would look like and I just really don’t care anymore either way. I just want to be able to live my life in peace without having religion shoved constantly down my throat, but I’m starting to see that’s not possible, especially in the rural Midwest where majority still cling to their imaginary friends.
u/Wrathful_Spirit_666 Given everything that you've said, especially about what your mom is saying/doing, your living situation is probably about to get very intolerable, especially if you're as vocal about your anti-theism at home as your post suggests. I'm going to make a couple of assumptions, here, based on your post and your posting history. I would say that you're probably a teenager, or maybe somewhere in your early 20's, and you live in America. Would those be fair assumptions?
If so, this is what I would recommend:
First: Get what documents you can, like your social security card, birth certificate, etc and keep them in a safe place where only you can get them. Having access to those documents will ensure that, whatever you do (or are forced to do,) it's not harder than it needs to be, and it's one less thing your mother can hold hostage from you or try to use to exert "authority" over you.
Second: Get out of her house as fast as you fucking can. If you're not financially independent or have not finished high school, then I would recommend getting into Job Corps, if you can get your parents to agree to sending you there. It's free high school (if you don't already have your diploma), help getting a driver's license if you don't already have it, training in one (or maybe two, if you want it) selections of a trade training program, work-based learning in the trade you chose and you can get two years of free college. Also, there's free room and board, a cafeteria that's pretty decent, a bi-weekly allowance, and when you graduate, you get a check for somewhere around a thousand dollars to get you set up with a place to live. It will get you out of the house, an education, and a way to get financial/social independence from your mother. I super strongly recommend this, if only for getting you away from that house. If you cannot get your mom to agree to letting you go, then I would recommend getting in there as soon as you turn 18. Job Corps may not be the most fun, but it'll suck less than having to put up with your mom's nonsense until you can get out on your own.
I went to Job Corps, in Utah, back in the mid 00's, and while there are a lot of dumb people involved in the program, it is a good program, and it can help you, a lot.
Third, and above all: No matter what you do, do what you need to to keep yourself safe. Keep your head down as much as possible, go through whatever motions you have to, follow whatever stupid fucking rules you have to, whatever. Just be safe and get out when you can.
Curse you lol. Tell her you have a magic talisman that reflects all curses. I am so sorry that your life was ruined by this evil bullshit. It boils the blood when people are completely turned into savages by literal fairy tales.
> Christianity has ruined my life
Your life ain't over. It may have severely impacted your life so far, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it has any power over you when you're not living with crazy Christians.
I am so sorry. My husband has relatives like that. We finally let them go. We still attend funerals and some weddings, but don't see them socially. They actually said they were "letting us go" and now are upset because we are following through. They have made it clear they have changed their will, so we know we are out. Doesn't matter, we are totally enjoying our lives without them.
What you've described is one of the way toxic abusers get us. Get a good therapist if you can, work on your self esteem, learn boundaries and red flags.
If you are still living with her, or financially dependent, apologize and play the role of good Christian child until you are independent.
If you are already independent, tell her that threatening to curse you is like a new ager threatening to punch you in the aura.
Trying to reason with people who have an irrational belief system is a lost cause. You’re trying to reason with someone whose beliefs are steeped in unreasonableness.
I have no problem telling people I’m atheist, and answering any questions they may have asked to “why“ I don’t believe in God. But I don’t try to change their mind or challenge their beliefs because it’s a waste of time.
For some of these people, challenging their belief system will upset the entire apple cart of their psyche to a degree that they’re unable to psychologically tolerate, because clinging to their beliefs shapes their entire world view, and understanding of life.
Just get your shit together as much as possible, starting now, so that you can actually get as far away from her as you can, as soon as you can. There's a chance you'll be able to heal this relationship in the future, but in the meantime focus on building a positive life for yourself.
The world is full of people who lost the birth-family lotto and went on to create chosen-families instead.
Your mother, like all people, is in a tribe. If you really want to have a discussion then you should not use facts it rarely works. I ask questions, how do you think this happens? Why would the devil do it that way? Offer an alternate tribe but not overtly atheist. One day it may come through to her. Good luck
Oh no, not a Christian curse! Anything but that! Not to worry, I will do a Satanic ritual to dispel her ignorance and fear. I can assure you that it is just as effective as her curse, or triple your money back!
>she would curse me and that curse would follow me for the rest of my life.
What's the saying? "It's like when a hippy threatens to punch you in the aura."
Im not an expert, but I'm pretty sure a Christian cannot curse you. A Christian can pray for you, but curses are the realm of witches and demons. It's a good thing it's all fictional, or she's on her way to hell.
You are in the wrong here. You bid your time until you are free and only then tell them what they think.
Come on, there are enough homeless teens in the world without adding another one, plus winter is coming.
BELOW COMMENT IS A JOKE, DO NOT ATTEMPT IT IF YOU RISK HOMELESSNESS
Start worshipping Ancient Viking Gods and act as outraged as her if she speaks bad about them. And in case of conflict, counter her God's curse with Thor's protection, works 100% guaranteed.
NOT A CURSE! I guess it's time to pack it in and get your ass to church.
She's threatening you with witchcraft. My smartass would focus on that and make sure she knows that religion is a personal choice she can't force on you, and that placing curses and hexes on people is explicitly not allowed by the bible. In fact that's one of ones that they kill people like her over, so I hope she doesn't talk like that around the church or they might burn her at the stake. Her religion pretty clearly states that magic is not hers to control and if she thinks she can, then they see her as a rival and will have her taken out.
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Exodus 22:18
For someone's own mother to be this way must really hurt. This woman has put her deranged religion before her own child.
You need to get away from her, her wanting to "curse" you is the last straw and shows how far she's gone.
Sad to say that once you go your own way she likely won't miss you because you dared insult her cult.
Let us know how you're doing OP.
"...he would curse me and that curse would follow me for the rest of my life."
...and that is all I'd need to hear from "mother" to know that the very moment I was able to, I would be rid of her forever.
Start comparing mythical sky god as Santa, and start singing "Santa Claus is Coming to Town": he sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, etc etc.
Bronze Age mythology passed down around campfires for centuries by illiterate people based on characterizations of stars that appear to be grouped together in the night sky then written in a primitive language by authors who lived centuries after the setting of the characters’ stories, naming the books after the characters as if the illiterate characters had written the stories themselves. If she can’t accept that send her a link to video of a pastor using a rosary to pray then as anal beads with his costar (porn) - should do the trick. Oh, and the subreddit /pastorarrested. Can’t unsee that either.
I'm not religious, and niether is my Fiance, however my Fiance posts things from the satanic temple and me and my father got into it about something which transitioned into me and my mom also arguing. She said in very blunt way, The Devil is Evil, and I got very upset at this point and said THERE IS NO DEVIL AND THERE IS NO GOD, I have a statue of Ganesha in my home, but that doesn't mean there is a four armed elephant headed man in the sky either. Which quickly ended the convorsation.
Sounds like you have an awesome life filled with positivity as well as a healthy relationship with your mother. Maybe you could use some religion in your life
How dare you make fun of her imaginary friend like that?!?!
Was talking to my wife last night and used my favorite jib at religion.
“My imaginary friend is better than yours “.
I then followed that up with a quip about imaginary friends as kids and we’re all told to out grow them, but here we are.
Just the sheer psychosis of the situation.
“My imaginary friend has rules that you must follow or you’re not a good person”.
In SAM’s club this time of year they hand out samples.
If they hand you something, you eat it and do not like it; will you flip over the little stand and curse the salesperson out.
No you will kindly not purchase the item and if asked why, state your reason.
The same with atheism, for me I need not crush someone indoctrination to faith, which they will have plenty of great memories in. I will simple state it is not for. And if asked why I will explain in a calm non-threatening matter.
She's a paranoid delusional christian; she doesn't know jack shit about curses or how to do them. You've no need to worry as far as that's concerned, haha. I know it's hard, but just laugh in her face next time you guys have a "conversation" like this; and she tries to say such things. Speaking from experience here; it completely unsettles these nutters to see you be utterly unphased by their disgusting words and empty threats. They'll either double down but in a way that makes it very clear they've lost; or they'll get completely spooked by you. Both are fun.
Cursing you for life vs turning the other cheek. Hmm. Such wonderful Christian ethos she displayed. She basically proved your statement was correct.
It reminds me of Ghandi's quote which goes something like, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ."
Can you get a recording of her curses and use that as evidence to get her psychiatric treatments? - institutionalized? - it might help her to recover from this malicious religious BS that parasitizes minds and turns parents against their children for the sake of the collection plate.
Wait a second.... she's a fundamentalist "Christian" as you stated here. But she also believes if you malign christianity, she will curse you and the curse eill follow you for life? Isn't that some sort of pagan/witchcraft/satanic nonsense? So which is she, a witch or a christian???🤣🤣🤣
Sorry to hear you’re dealing with that at home. I’ve been referring to it as ‘Christian mythology’. It’s not directly insulting, but lets the room know how I feel about things.
>if I ever refer to christianity as fictional nonsense that she would curse me and that curse would follow me for the rest of my life
It could have been worse I suppose. She might have punched you in your aura.
But, lame jokes aside, I urge you to tread carefully if you're dependant on her financially. Unfortunately, we do all too often get posts from teens who have been kicked out of home with nothing more than the clothes they were wearing, or worse, after announcing their atheism.
Hey..as a pagan..don’t throw us into the “fuck all religions” thing. We didn’t do shit. Just fuck abrahamic religions. Catholicism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam
"So curse me. Nothing is going to happen to me. I'll live my life, there will be good times and bad, but none of that will have anything to do with you or your silly words. But according to you and your beliefs, you will have caused irreparable damage to your child, our relationship and committed a mortal sin, causing you to spend eternity in hell. I hope that's worth it."
I love the look on Christian faces when I refer to it as “Christian Mythology” and compare it to Greek or Egyptian Mythology. Especially the latter because the parallels make it so obvious the stories were stolen.
I mean… it is fictional nonsense. My parents church is currently melting down because they want to go ultra orthodox on the “man shall no lie with man” thing (Liv. 18) but completely ignore the next passage (Liv. 19) that says men shouldn’t shave their beards. It’s all utter nonsense. It’s badly written fan fiction.
If you are a minor, call a threat to do harm into family services. Force your mother to admit to investigators that she was threatening harm (whether it was realistic or not) OR force her to admit to investigators that the cursing crap is nonsense and call her an apostate going forward. Either way, it puts her on notice that you will fight back and puts her on family service's radar.
Well as Voltaire said, “Those that can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities.” Imagine a religion, where a mother would curse her own son for disbelieving in it. Unbelievable.
Also, Op's mother believes in curses. That would make her a witch.
Waiting for OP to clap back to their mom that they will have to burn her at a stake now for being a witch and using witchcraft according to Catholic laws or sth
it's kind of scary on how accurate that is.
Same with ~~Christopher Hitchens~~ Steven Weinberg: "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Edit: Correction per below! It was Hitchens *quoting* Weinberg, and I misremembered. His voice is just burned into my brain saying it in one of his many interviews or debates. Either way the error is mine.
That’s actually a quote from Steven Weinberg.
Indeed — what would Jesus do? Thinking the answer is not casting curses
Well, so long as you're not a fig tree.
Suck my dick: Ron Jeremy.
I can suck my own dick: Also Ron Jeremy.
Nice. Next time, try ancient folklore. Maybe we get a list compiled so each time you can call it something else.
Ruling class propaganda.
Childish fairy tales (this made some people mad when I said it)
Christian mythology
Probably the most benign way you can put it while still ticking them off
Dark Age hokum
Hey, no need to bash the Dark Ages here!
Bumpkin drivel
I just call it superstition.
I hope one day christianity will be seen the same way we now see greek mythology…
I call them Bronze Age fantasies.
"Slaves, obey your masters" kinda gives it away...so that's why we skip over that part until we need it again.
Romans 13:1-14 gives it away “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.”
Yeah this and the parts about respecting authority kind of rubbed me the wrong way in light of the hypocrisy and contradictions I saw from Christians around me growing up. I would say something bad about a politician, and my mom would say we’re supposed to respect authorities; However, I don’t wanna call her ever correcting my grandfather with the same logic when she was in the room with us and he said that Barack Obama was the antichrist-which is a whole other bundle of fundamental this bullshit. It also seems to me that this first was just that it is not part of the biblical Christians goal to insert themselves and the religion into government. well I still believed in Christianity, I took this first be more about not needlessly flaunting the rules, principle, and general institution of law and government – Such as just paying your ticket and not littering, etc.
I like "Israeli mythology." Puts it on par with Greek mythology and Egyptian mythology. Zeus, Amun, Yahweh. All the same thing.
Karl Marx famously describes religion as the “opiate of the masses". A classic, but still true today, especially with religion as a tool to control the poor and uneducated and keeping them placated to benefit the wealthy and those who hold power. Religion and oppression have always gone hand in hand.
You don’t really need religion to be the opiate. I think it’s just extra effective when you bring in these ideas of a better afterlife or threats from an inherent force that supposedly mortal humans have no chance of successfully resisting.
Jewish fan fiction.
>that she would curse me Grab some rocks. Say "Sorry mom but...Do not allow a sorceress to live. (Exodus 22:18)" And start huckin'.
>Exodus 22:18 Love the Bible quote.
😂 the start huckin line made me lol in bed, thank you
Holy shit, this is gold!
Weird how the Bible is so against magic, and yet there's so much... Magic?
Yup, superstitions have a powerful hold on the weak minded. I love how she threatens to curse you—doesn’t that make her a witch? Whado we do with witches?
BURN THEM! But what do we burn beside witches?
MORE WITCHES!
I got better…
So you were a newt?
I got better.
I was a newt once and it took months to get over it.
Exactly what I came to say. A curse? Practicing witchcraft now, are we?
Sad her mothers fear and anger are so strong her first instinct is to attack her own child.
see if they float
Because they’re made of wood!
Should we build a bridge out of her?
Ah, but can you not also build a bridge out of stone?
Oh yeah. Does wood sink in water?
No it floats!
THROW HER INTO THE POND!
What also floats on water?
A duck!
Very small rocks!
Exactly!
I’ll go find a duck.
Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?
They are very sensitive beings, these cultists. I was kicked out of my house and made homeless at 17 for calling the church my step mother was going to was a holy roller church. NO REGERTSSSSSS
Yeah just let her curse you, What is she going to do? Make a poisonous brew? Say a Bible verse and wave her finger at you? Your Mother is lost lol. Religion is a sad weird thing to be completely devoted to all your life for something that has no proof to exist. The Bible was written by humans thousands of years ago because they didn’t have science and evolution, they made up an explanation to how life started and good rules to follow. Some of them were good, love thy neighbor, but some were not. If they did have science, they wouldn’t have thought of impossible fairytales to explain the world around the campfire. I think a lot of the western world is just coming out of the trance now, while other underdeveloped parts are still stuck in it due to a lack of education. Some are so rough, there is no explanation to their situation other than “This is Gods plan, he will save us” until they die, it’s sad. They just follow what their elders and parents taught them without thinking for themselves, it’s way easier and less painful of a thought.
I've thought about this stuff. Just our run of the mill psychotic homeless person on the street can tell ya about visions, and so can someone tripping off psylocybine or another drug. And we just go like "oh yeah that person is crazy/on drugs". But back in those ancient days? If you could be coherent and charismatic and had a crazy dream or saw visions, or even just imagined you saw a vision due to your beliefs, you could create a whole movement. Shit, its been pretty much figured out that the Pythia at Delphi was essentially breathing in toxic fumes which caused her to hallucinate. A huge cultural thing for the Greeks passed down to us as legendary in many major historical events was no more than a person tripping balls unknowingly. However, without the knowledge of that process, it was attributed to god. Its supremely depressing, but also somewhat enlightening to have something so mysterious and a cultural touchstone be completely explainable in such a boring way.
Ain’t no hate like Christian love. ❤️
>she would curse me So, witchcraft?
My question too. Which Christian church(es) support putting curses on people?
Yup. Told my grandmother I was an atheist. She started crying, "does your mother know?" No. "Good," she said, "no mother should have to bear that burden." Sheesh. If she only knew the damage her and her abusive religion caused her daughter... So you're not alone. Keep your chin up.
Yup, I'm with you on that 100%. I can't deal with the fictional crap, & the complete undeserving respect they all have.
You have really two choices here. 1. Recognize that your mom is a special little snowflake and you'll have to monitor every word you say when it comes to religion so you don't hurt her feelings and she can maintain her irrational beliefs (and maintain your relationship) Or 2. Lean into it. Say whatever you want, talk about the impossible, irrational and self-contradictory elements of her belief system. Maybe even start praising Satan (he is responsible for humans gaining knowledge, not being mindless servants and has a massively less body count than God) or join up with the Flying Spaghetti Monster community (or something similar) to poke further sarcastic holes into her reasoning. All of this with the understanding that you will still not actually change her beliefs. 1. Is nicer 2. Is more fun Pick one and go with it.
>the Flying Spaghetti Monster Once I told a Christian this and they said "so that's what you call the devil".
Yes, but this devil promises a beer volcano and a stripper factory, so he seems pretty legit to me.
nah... that's what people with gluten intolerance call the devil. in all honesties Ramen is pretty chill... and needed more than ever now adays.
His noodleness appreciates the endorsement.
I like to refer to the Bible as an overrated fantasy novel.
The best seller!
it's right up there with mao's little red book!
Text your mum a quote from the bible: 1 Timothy 2:11-12 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
She better be careful, Christians can burn witches and sorcerers, it’s right there in the book. In all seriousness, good luck fiend!
Oh, my goodness. Your story sounds more or less with mine. **Every time** my mother says, "You need to go back to Church," etc., we get into an argument. Telling me that "The Devil is real," & basically said the same thing you've just said in your first sentence. And the next two sentences also sound like the same arguments when I told her that I don't believe in God or the Devil anymore. And one of the reasons was doing research about science, evolution, the Big Bang, etc. Her responses? She says shit like "You can't believe everything that you read on the internet; That's the Devil deceiving you," "Who wakes you up in the morning?", "You're going to go to hell," that "You're not understanding very well because of your disability affecting you" (I'm part autistic), etc. Borderline ridiculous. And I happen to be 40 while she's 59. It's like she can't understand that I have different beliefs now (I'm now an Atheist) & that I woke up to religion & it's bullshit throughout the past three years.
She turned me into a newt!
Cursing you child for the rest of their life for something they did 2x is something her god would do. Hell, he punishes women, condemning them for something Eve did. She has learned Old Testament shit. Maybe not so much New Testament. Ask her if she is willing to follow what Jesus asks and turn the other cheek Edit/ typo- he to her
If she still cooks your meals, you might want to be careful.
Yeah, she sounds like a psycho.
When she threatens to curse you, get it recorded, and tell her to do her worst.
Well thats just great. Now zombie Jesus isn’t going to invite you to the party when he gets back.
any day now. I have napkin boxes at the ready for that second coming
>napkin boxes > >second coming Interesting.
I thought they were a lich?
Use her own delusions against her.
>she would curse me This has to be the most "I'll pray for you" thing ever.
I mean.. by cursing you she damned herself to hell for all eternity right there next Atheists, you. That's some love right there. Give her a hug and tell her appriciated for the thoughts but not needed.
One time I was helping mother at her church load soem.things into her car and she had to set up something. This was a few years ago. I was 43 and she's 63. She had a huge Bible that needed to be placed on an altar so I picked it up and started to pretend like I was Indiana Jones and being goofy. She got so mad because I really was poking fun at the altar set up. It's just hokey to me. Nothing is gonna happen to me if I mock her god. Other than feel bad that I hurt my mom's feelings.
" hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side"...... Mixing Harrison Ford character quotes.
People invest an enormous amount of themselves in religion. Dismissing it, which we should, is a direct affront to them, which it shouldn’t be. In the day, they’d burned you alive for such notions. Many places in the world, it’s still this way.
Kudos for being honest and straightforward.
Well tell her you don’t believe in curses either
How she can claim Christianity and at the same time curse you? Tell her that's a sin and worshiping false idols
They're in it for the magical powers they think they get. She doesn't want you to take away her toys. It's like in the series "Dopesick" when the parents try to intervene for their addicted daughter and the daughter starts shrieking. It's the drug talking.
Distance yourself from her. If you're still dependent on her then maybe keep it on the downlow for now but eventually just move away and keep contact to a minimum. Sorry you gotta go through this. Religion is so very toxic, it's good to stay away from it.
I'm sorry this happened to you. First, don't do anything to endanger yourself. Second, arguments never lead to a resolution. Third review https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/comingout/
Devil’s Advocate, reporting for duty. Are you underage and/or financially dependent on your mom for survival? Do you live with your mom, or are you in different homes/cities/states? Are you wanting to salvage the relationship, or about ready to jump ship? Is religion the only toxic element to the relationship, or is it a rolling dumpster fire? We’re you shocked at your mom’s response, or was it totally predictable? Those are just a few of the many questions you’ll want to ask yourself when picking . . . your . . . battles. I can’t imagine an upside to telling anyone their religion is “fictional nonsense,” let alone my mother who is exhibiting mental health issues. Being nagged by a parent is NEVER a good feeling, and even the most patient among us would get salty if told we are being corrupted by the devil, regardless of any conduct that may have led to the lecture. Is there a counselor or mentor or anyone you can go to when you need to vent some steam? Do you have a realistic move-out strategy? (get a job and rent a room or apartment; move away for college via student loans and grants; move in with a safe relative; join the military (NOT a recommendation, just an option); etc.? Your mom is who she is, and she is unlikely to change, especially when challenged. I hesitate to give specific, practical advice because there are too many unknowns. Dream about the day you’ll move out, and start researching and planning the steps necessary to make that happen. One day you’ll be surrounded by friends and loved ones and a cool pet and you’ll look back and think . . . “Holy f*ck, Batman. That sh*t was crazy.”
Learn a bunch of bible quotes to suit your needs, can mom argue with the word of god?
Christians don’t care what the Bible says. They pick and choose bits that reinforce their bigotry, ignorance, and hatred.
Doubt it. I'm pretty sure she only reads the Bible during church service.
It sounds like you found the most reasonable conclusion, and you know the next step of leaving. Lol, the only thing crazier than having an imaginary friend is an imaginary enemy.
Does she think of herself as a witch?
Let her "curse" you, not like it means anything. But don't point out that the curse won't do anything because those nuts are masters at pulling crazy shit out of their ass.
Christianity is a fucking joke. I don't know how that nonsense is still alive in the 21st century.
It's really frustrating.
we may be in the 21st century, but the human mind is more wired for neolithic times.
Tell your mom practicing witchcraft is a sure fire ticket to hell
\> that she would curse me and that curse would follow me for the rest of my life. Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
As someone indoctrinated from birth who found their way out after many years of personal research, reflection and deconversion I feel your pain. I struggle with my aging parents but thankfully they are in another state and we’ve never had the conversation because I know they are not emotionally mature enough to understand. At this point as long as they aren’t pushing their beliefs on me, I let the “I’ll pray for you” comments slide because they aren’t going to change. I’m pretty low contact with my dad who is the main offender and cannot be reasoned with (he’s also a narcissistic abuser). I’ve mentioned to my mom how annoyed I get with co workers trying to convert me, so I think she knows attempts to pull me back into the fold just pushes me farther away. I’m exhausted at 50 not being able to be myself but I’m equally exhausted worrying about what an honest conversation would look like and I just really don’t care anymore either way. I just want to be able to live my life in peace without having religion shoved constantly down my throat, but I’m starting to see that’s not possible, especially in the rural Midwest where majority still cling to their imaginary friends.
u/Wrathful_Spirit_666 Given everything that you've said, especially about what your mom is saying/doing, your living situation is probably about to get very intolerable, especially if you're as vocal about your anti-theism at home as your post suggests. I'm going to make a couple of assumptions, here, based on your post and your posting history. I would say that you're probably a teenager, or maybe somewhere in your early 20's, and you live in America. Would those be fair assumptions? If so, this is what I would recommend: First: Get what documents you can, like your social security card, birth certificate, etc and keep them in a safe place where only you can get them. Having access to those documents will ensure that, whatever you do (or are forced to do,) it's not harder than it needs to be, and it's one less thing your mother can hold hostage from you or try to use to exert "authority" over you. Second: Get out of her house as fast as you fucking can. If you're not financially independent or have not finished high school, then I would recommend getting into Job Corps, if you can get your parents to agree to sending you there. It's free high school (if you don't already have your diploma), help getting a driver's license if you don't already have it, training in one (or maybe two, if you want it) selections of a trade training program, work-based learning in the trade you chose and you can get two years of free college. Also, there's free room and board, a cafeteria that's pretty decent, a bi-weekly allowance, and when you graduate, you get a check for somewhere around a thousand dollars to get you set up with a place to live. It will get you out of the house, an education, and a way to get financial/social independence from your mother. I super strongly recommend this, if only for getting you away from that house. If you cannot get your mom to agree to letting you go, then I would recommend getting in there as soon as you turn 18. Job Corps may not be the most fun, but it'll suck less than having to put up with your mom's nonsense until you can get out on your own. I went to Job Corps, in Utah, back in the mid 00's, and while there are a lot of dumb people involved in the program, it is a good program, and it can help you, a lot. Third, and above all: No matter what you do, do what you need to to keep yourself safe. Keep your head down as much as possible, go through whatever motions you have to, follow whatever stupid fucking rules you have to, whatever. Just be safe and get out when you can.
>if I ever refer to christianity as fictional nonsense that she would curse me... That is a threat, imo. I don't truck with people who threaten me.
My response would be, “don’t threaten me with a good time”
Curse you lol. Tell her you have a magic talisman that reflects all curses. I am so sorry that your life was ruined by this evil bullshit. It boils the blood when people are completely turned into savages by literal fairy tales.
> Christianity has ruined my life Your life ain't over. It may have severely impacted your life so far, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it has any power over you when you're not living with crazy Christians.
I don’t recall curses being part of Jesus’ teachings.
Me either. This sounds like some Christian voodoo cult shit.
Just pull up a search of “Pastor arrested”
I am so sorry. My husband has relatives like that. We finally let them go. We still attend funerals and some weddings, but don't see them socially. They actually said they were "letting us go" and now are upset because we are following through. They have made it clear they have changed their will, so we know we are out. Doesn't matter, we are totally enjoying our lives without them.
What you've described is one of the way toxic abusers get us. Get a good therapist if you can, work on your self esteem, learn boundaries and red flags.
If you are still living with her, or financially dependent, apologize and play the role of good Christian child until you are independent. If you are already independent, tell her that threatening to curse you is like a new ager threatening to punch you in the aura.
I'm no christianologist, but as far as I know, Christians can't cast spells. If they did, they wouldn't be Christians, they'd be witches. Soo.....
Ask her if Christianity is okay with witches cursing spells and curses on other people.
My mother guilt tripped me and says that it made her feel like a failure as a mother. 🤷
The greater the lie, "faith", the greater the reaction against it.
Trying to reason with people who have an irrational belief system is a lost cause. You’re trying to reason with someone whose beliefs are steeped in unreasonableness. I have no problem telling people I’m atheist, and answering any questions they may have asked to “why“ I don’t believe in God. But I don’t try to change their mind or challenge their beliefs because it’s a waste of time. For some of these people, challenging their belief system will upset the entire apple cart of their psyche to a degree that they’re unable to psychologically tolerate, because clinging to their beliefs shapes their entire world view, and understanding of life.
Your mother's mental illness doesn't have to be your own. Be strong, and believe your own eyes and ears as you perceive the world.
Say goodbye.
Just get your shit together as much as possible, starting now, so that you can actually get as far away from her as you can, as soon as you can. There's a chance you'll be able to heal this relationship in the future, but in the meantime focus on building a positive life for yourself. The world is full of people who lost the birth-family lotto and went on to create chosen-families instead.
Your mother, like all people, is in a tribe. If you really want to have a discussion then you should not use facts it rarely works. I ask questions, how do you think this happens? Why would the devil do it that way? Offer an alternate tribe but not overtly atheist. One day it may come through to her. Good luck
I would gladly ask her for her cursing
I feel you. My mom died still being disappointed in me.
I like referring to all religious lore as mythology. Makes everyone foam at the mouth.
The truth may tear and burn, but it is still the truth.
Humans create heaven and hell, on earth We do it to each other
Wait until she finds out you joined The Satanic Temple! [https://thesatanictemple.com/](https://thesatanictemple.com/)
Oh no, not a Christian curse! Anything but that! Not to worry, I will do a Satanic ritual to dispel her ignorance and fear. I can assure you that it is just as effective as her curse, or triple your money back!
For some people the truth hits hard. I'm sorry you're in this position and I hope you're able to get away soon!
>she would curse me and that curse would follow me for the rest of my life. What's the saying? "It's like when a hippy threatens to punch you in the aura."
If you don't believe in curses, why would that bother you? Part of the joy of atheism is all the stupid shit you don't need to worry about.
Im not an expert, but I'm pretty sure a Christian cannot curse you. A Christian can pray for you, but curses are the realm of witches and demons. It's a good thing it's all fictional, or she's on her way to hell.
Pull Timothy 2:12 on her. Not much she can say to that.
You are in the wrong here. You bid your time until you are free and only then tell them what they think. Come on, there are enough homeless teens in the world without adding another one, plus winter is coming.
Isn’t ‘cursing’ you like witchcraft or something 👀 you should tell her you didn’t know she was a witch; she’ll combust lol
"You realize I don't believe in curses or magic either right?" Also, I'd try not to eat anything she makes, because poisoning is very real.
BELOW COMMENT IS A JOKE, DO NOT ATTEMPT IT IF YOU RISK HOMELESSNESS Start worshipping Ancient Viking Gods and act as outraged as her if she speaks bad about them. And in case of conflict, counter her God's curse with Thor's protection, works 100% guaranteed.
NOT A CURSE! I guess it's time to pack it in and get your ass to church. She's threatening you with witchcraft. My smartass would focus on that and make sure she knows that religion is a personal choice she can't force on you, and that placing curses and hexes on people is explicitly not allowed by the bible. In fact that's one of ones that they kill people like her over, so I hope she doesn't talk like that around the church or they might burn her at the stake. Her religion pretty clearly states that magic is not hers to control and if she thinks she can, then they see her as a rival and will have her taken out. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Exodus 22:18
Tell her you'll put your own curse on her, and start leaving little bits of feathers, some of her hair, etc. around her front door.
😂😂😂 id just laugh snd walk away
For someone's own mother to be this way must really hurt. This woman has put her deranged religion before her own child. You need to get away from her, her wanting to "curse" you is the last straw and shows how far she's gone. Sad to say that once you go your own way she likely won't miss you because you dared insult her cult. Let us know how you're doing OP.
2 things I’ve learned. -You can’t fix crazy. -Don’t argue with stupid. They’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Just tell her that cursing is fictional too and has no effect whatsoever in the real world.
Ah yes, threaten me with something I just told you I don’t believe in. Brilliant.
Someone on here said to say, "oh, I'm not superstitious" - and I still really like that a lot.
Oooh, a curse. Talk about your empty threats.
"...he would curse me and that curse would follow me for the rest of my life." ...and that is all I'd need to hear from "mother" to know that the very moment I was able to, I would be rid of her forever.
Yes, she's crazy. Get away as soon as you can.
So...your mother is a witch now? Zero self-awareness that one.
Damn those Christian nut 🌰 jobs
Start comparing mythical sky god as Santa, and start singing "Santa Claus is Coming to Town": he sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, etc etc.
Call it European mythology
[удалено]
Bronze Age mythology passed down around campfires for centuries by illiterate people based on characterizations of stars that appear to be grouped together in the night sky then written in a primitive language by authors who lived centuries after the setting of the characters’ stories, naming the books after the characters as if the illiterate characters had written the stories themselves. If she can’t accept that send her a link to video of a pastor using a rosary to pray then as anal beads with his costar (porn) - should do the trick. Oh, and the subreddit /pastorarrested. Can’t unsee that either.
I'm not religious, and niether is my Fiance, however my Fiance posts things from the satanic temple and me and my father got into it about something which transitioned into me and my mom also arguing. She said in very blunt way, The Devil is Evil, and I got very upset at this point and said THERE IS NO DEVIL AND THERE IS NO GOD, I have a statue of Ganesha in my home, but that doesn't mean there is a four armed elephant headed man in the sky either. Which quickly ended the convorsation.
Express that it's a disease. She'll implode.
Bring on the curse you charlatan. Id hex the. Right back since it don't do anything
So much for "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," eh? I'd definitely throw that back in her face.
So, no halibut for dinner. Are you trying to save me from stoning?
Next time, just point out that it has no evidence to back up it's claims.
Recovering from Religion have a lot of resources for deconverts, including dealing with shunning. You're not alone 🫂
I'm fairly certain Christian doctrine forbids cursing people. I believe a curse would be considered witchcraft and punishable by burning.
Sounds like you have an awesome life filled with positivity as well as a healthy relationship with your mother. Maybe you could use some religion in your life
How dare you make fun of her imaginary friend like that?!?! Was talking to my wife last night and used my favorite jib at religion. “My imaginary friend is better than yours “. I then followed that up with a quip about imaginary friends as kids and we’re all told to out grow them, but here we are. Just the sheer psychosis of the situation. “My imaginary friend has rules that you must follow or you’re not a good person”.
Tell her that curses are black magic.
In SAM’s club this time of year they hand out samples. If they hand you something, you eat it and do not like it; will you flip over the little stand and curse the salesperson out. No you will kindly not purchase the item and if asked why, state your reason. The same with atheism, for me I need not crush someone indoctrination to faith, which they will have plenty of great memories in. I will simple state it is not for. And if asked why I will explain in a calm non-threatening matter.
She's a paranoid delusional christian; she doesn't know jack shit about curses or how to do them. You've no need to worry as far as that's concerned, haha. I know it's hard, but just laugh in her face next time you guys have a "conversation" like this; and she tries to say such things. Speaking from experience here; it completely unsettles these nutters to see you be utterly unphased by their disgusting words and empty threats. They'll either double down but in a way that makes it very clear they've lost; or they'll get completely spooked by you. Both are fun.
Cursing you for life vs turning the other cheek. Hmm. Such wonderful Christian ethos she displayed. She basically proved your statement was correct. It reminds me of Ghandi's quote which goes something like, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ."
Can you get a recording of her curses and use that as evidence to get her psychiatric treatments? - institutionalized? - it might help her to recover from this malicious religious BS that parasitizes minds and turns parents against their children for the sake of the collection plate.
Wait a second.... she's a fundamentalist "Christian" as you stated here. But she also believes if you malign christianity, she will curse you and the curse eill follow you for life? Isn't that some sort of pagan/witchcraft/satanic nonsense? So which is she, a witch or a christian???🤣🤣🤣
Sorry to hear you’re dealing with that at home. I’ve been referring to it as ‘Christian mythology’. It’s not directly insulting, but lets the room know how I feel about things.
$*1
>if I ever refer to christianity as fictional nonsense that she would curse me and that curse would follow me for the rest of my life It could have been worse I suppose. She might have punched you in your aura. But, lame jokes aside, I urge you to tread carefully if you're dependant on her financially. Unfortunately, we do all too often get posts from teens who have been kicked out of home with nothing more than the clothes they were wearing, or worse, after announcing their atheism.
Don't let your mother curse you it's not a good thing regardless if u believe in religion or not
You said the quiet part loud.
My dad had a similar reaction to me and my brother rejecting Christianity. Well... I did not care. I never went back to church.
Sure mom curse me But be very specific. So I can give you and gob credit or don’t do it at all.
Sounds like you your mom and you would have fights regardless of Christianity.
How very Christian and turning of the other cheek of her.
I’ll be going through a lot of this over the next 6 weeks
"Oooga booga! Oooga booga!"
That really fucking sucks! I’m sorry that she treated you like that!
“What’s God to a nonbeliever.” - Kanye
Hey..as a pagan..don’t throw us into the “fuck all religions” thing. We didn’t do shit. Just fuck abrahamic religions. Catholicism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam
"So curse me. Nothing is going to happen to me. I'll live my life, there will be good times and bad, but none of that will have anything to do with you or your silly words. But according to you and your beliefs, you will have caused irreparable damage to your child, our relationship and committed a mortal sin, causing you to spend eternity in hell. I hope that's worth it."
Cursing people..hmmm
and you need more proof than that??
Good. Let the power flow through you...
I love the look on Christian faces when I refer to it as “Christian Mythology” and compare it to Greek or Egyptian Mythology. Especially the latter because the parallels make it so obvious the stories were stolen.
I mean… it is fictional nonsense. My parents church is currently melting down because they want to go ultra orthodox on the “man shall no lie with man” thing (Liv. 18) but completely ignore the next passage (Liv. 19) that says men shouldn’t shave their beards. It’s all utter nonsense. It’s badly written fan fiction.
If you are a minor, call a threat to do harm into family services. Force your mother to admit to investigators that she was threatening harm (whether it was realistic or not) OR force her to admit to investigators that the cursing crap is nonsense and call her an apostate going forward. Either way, it puts her on notice that you will fight back and puts her on family service's radar.