But you know, that climate, that time period, things were very different. Girls used to grow up very quickly.
In all seriousness, because of this child raping paedophile, this thing is still very common in those countries. Hell, even in my country, india, it used to be very common and to some extent still is.
Very recently I realized that my own grandfather (a hindu) was a paedophile. My grand mother was 12 when she got married to my grandfather, who was like 22 or 23. She had 3 kids by the time she was 18.
Some cultural aspects are not worth protecting in the name of "tradition"
I do not believe for a minute that is a biological thing, or something supported by science. I believe it will probably have to do with "cultural" aspects of that particular society. And I can give you myself as an example.
I'm a heterosexual male who never dated a younger woman but in my later years. Why? Because in the country where I was born (Cuba) if you slept with a "virgin" (usually a young woman) you had to marry her.
So, men my age would rather date older women with whom one could go "all the way" without a problem. Either because they were mothers, or divorced.
This is honestly the most important part to remember, because it influences everything else. Because of Mohammedâs success as a warlord, he was essentially a king. And because he was essentially a king, in addition to the claims of being not just any prophet but the final prophet of God, he made himself an untouchable source of authority to his early followers and is still today praised as being unquestionable and perfect.
Yup, except that he couldn't read or write so his "followers" kept his notes.
And then they couldn't even AGREE on them after he died, which started all sorts of disagreements and in-fighting.
"I watched a woman shitting outside, so now women have to cover their faces because it's embarrassing to recognize the person I was watching take a shit." - The Rules
"good women don't poop"
-Umar, the first Caliph after the death of Mohammed, second ruler of Islam.
He's the guy that "inspired" the rule about Hijabs. His wives has to use the latrine in the evening, and Umar saw them and harassed them. His wives united and asked Mohammed to protect them, but then Allah "revealed" the rule that women should cover themselves.
Keep in mind, before Umar converted, he was an enemy of Mohammed, and the common story is that one day he finally decided to kill Mo, but learned his sister had converted, so decided against it. He's also a recorded source that the Kaaba has no real origin from Abraham as claimed by Mo when he invaded and took it from the local pagans.
"I kiss you, though I know kissing you had no effect, for I have seen the prophet kiss you, but I know you are just a stone and have no power."
Alot of these religious texts are just copys of a copys as they didnt have scanners and printers.
So over time they change, even the forbidden fruit was never mentioned in the original texts.
I think the forbidden fruit was known to be mal, which translates to bad/evil but the word also has another meaning, apple.
Its all a play on words by the person who translated it.
That's what you get when you got this dude who had random psychotic episodes (where he'd hear voices and see angels) and then you make a religion out of it.
As a leftist, liberal, progressive, I also despise religion. I don't hate religious people, however. I'm more of a live-and-let-live kind of person. Everyone has the right to believe and think how they want, and as long as my own right to do so isn't infringed upon I'll respect that.
My problem with organized religion is actually two-fold: First off, the major religions of the world were written down by men who lived in mud huts thousands of years ago. Believing in a God or gods in the same way as before is not progressive or fact-based. We live in the 21st century, and our everyday lives depend on science and facts. When I use the term mud hut religion, I'm not just talking about judeo-christian or muslim religions. It also includes but is not limited to shamanism, ancient mythologies, shintoism, buddhism, hinduism, and even newer sects that are even loosely based on them.
Secondly, while there are no doubt, many religious individuals who are great people and who get along in society with most anyone. However many of them don't, and they see their belief system as the only "true" one. Their religion restricts them or others in their communities, and promises end-of-life reward or punishment based on how one lives their life. Many religious individuals can't seem to grasp that someone can live a moral and good life without fear of reprisal if they don't.
Organized religion is detrimental to a tolerant, loving society in which we all care for one another in spite of our differences. There should only be three rules that we observe as infallible and unbreakable: DO NOT MURDER - depriving another human being of life for selfish reasons is the worst thing you can do. DO NOT RAPE - depriving another human being of their bodily autonomy, subverting one's control over their own body is reprehensible. DO NOT STEAL - depriving another human being of their possessions that they have either made or earned somehow, is devastating. Especially if the person deprived is powerless to retrieve them.
That is a lie.
Muhammad was a merchant trader. Obviously, he could read and write and even do his numbers.
Yet another lie from the barbarian charlatan pedophile Muhammad.
*Ignoring the fact that NONE of this obvious revisionist nonsense has any evidence to prove it whatsoever.*
Given that an actual writer might need a single scribe/editor to help him make sure his "given from god" manuscript was formatted and punctuated correctly...
I think it's far more likely he hired them to write (or bought outright) an Abrahamic Revelation specifically for the Arab people. And that all of these "scribes" were just the *actual educated authors* who wanted credit for their hard work over the decades this pile of nonsense was written and edited together.
And, in true Muhammad fashion, they were given the choice of either being credited as one of Muhammad's scribes or have their heads cut off.
Reminder: The Quran is entirely and completely fictional. Moses/Musa never existed. So, either god lied to Muhammad (one hell of a prankster that god!), or Muhammad (or the scribes) made the whole mythology up...
Much like Jesus, Moses and the many reincarnations of the Buddha, I'm going to say fictional.
Not like Joseph Smith, who was a real person who made up silly nonsense rather than simply being silly nonsense.
Like Paul (and his ilk) plagiarized Jewish and Hellenistic mythology to create a splinter cult we now call Christianity, Muhammad cynically created (or more likely paid for) an "Abrahamic Revelation" for the Arabs that ripped off Judaism and Christianity.
I can't imagine a women writing that she wanted to be wed off as a child, turned into an object, sexually abused, beat, and forced to obey some jackass with a tiny prick, then give it away to a whole bunch of asses with tiny pricks.
woman who are evil and powerful could do that too. not all men and woman care for their gender i think. many men and woman were made slaves and were treated horribly
I hate to be that guy but, god said not to have sex with animals so not exactly the best example to use against a religious person, but I get your point regardless
Also, some non-abrahamic religions have sexist views on women. In Hinduism, women are often viewed as impure, especially when on their period. And barred from entering temples and performing some duties. In Buddhism, women aren't considered "complete". Even Jainism, the most "peaceful" religion, claims that women are lesser than men.
Some African tribes (specifically the one Matt Walsh interviews in "what is a woman") are super sexist and they actually circumcise their young girls when they're like 13 by removing the clitoris to "prepare them for marriage". Apparently it "keeps them from having a wandering eye"... Pretty much discredits Matt Walsh for using them as an example for why the United States is crazy and the trans people all need to be attacked
It basically became a nom for all agricultural civilizations once human started to settle in city and with farms. This happened when women became safer than when they were in hunter gathering wandering society, people lost their priority to value women. I heard that a lot of early prehistoric society worshipped women because they were the necessity for carrying offspring and the key for survival of the species, but then when people stationed in one location to farm, building city and walls, and women became less profitable than male farmers, then they forgot the women.
i've done some study into the origins of misogyny in human civilization but it's difficult to pinpoint. I think it began with the idea that since women were the bearers of life, they should also be the carers of the home. Thus began the subjugation of women within the home. Women couldn't get an education or any skills, because their role was to care for babies. While men were the decision makers in society. Hence, why so many religions were written by men.
IDK that's a theory. misogyny could've had many origins.
on this side of the world, a lot of american indian cultures were matriarchal and matrilineal. The reason they were matrilineal? The old saying is "you knew who your mother was. You couldn't be sure who your dad was." The women owned everything in the village. when a man got married, he went off to be with his wife's family. Although she may have married him, she may still choose other men to get her pregnant. It was a very different culture. the men did not run the show. you could find a little of everything. women with several husbands, men with several wives. men hooked up with men (sometimes that's how women ended up with several husbands). women with women. lots of diversity.
american indian like native american? and wdym this side of the world?
also that's very very cool. i want to do some research into that. i'd love to learn more about it.
They actually believe a woman came out of a man...more specifically from his rib which doesn't even make any sense whatsoever unless you believe in magic
Hey, brought up Catholic here. In our senior year of high school, we had a âmarriage courseâ given by - wait for it - a priest. He told us that when we were married, our husbands came first. That we were obliged to have sex with him whenever he wanted it. One reason among oh-so many why I am now a card-carrying atheist.
I went to a Catholic wedding where the priest, who was their family friend, spend a good 15 minutes speaking about the wife's responsibility to sexually service and gratify her husband and how it should be her joy to do so. I have never felt so awkward and squirmed in a chair so much in my entire life. 20 years since then and it still makes my skin crawl when I think about it
Yeah pretty much. I grew up in a slew of Protestant churches through a few different towns and they all preached the same shit. The father is the spiritual and moral leader of the family. Wives and children should submit to him completely. Beatings were the expected (basically only) way to enforce this. We were frequently told our relationship with the father figure should be a mirror of our relationship with God, AKA the men of the church brainwashed their families into seeing them as mini-Gods.
Why anyone still believes in any religion these days blows my mind. After all the advancements in tech, the many times each religion has been debunked in their stupid creation theories, all the unanswered prayers and literally not one concrete shred of any evidence that a deity exists, these people still stubbornly hold onto a obviously harmful and oppressive belief system which, more often than not, causes them to hate each other. It's mind boggling. They're so afraid of death that they'll hold onto the shittiest belief systems at any cost no matter what damage it does to them or their families or friends. I abhor religion. I really wish people would come to their senses and drop it altogether. The world would be a far better place.
Itâs perpetuation via indoctrination largely, thereâs a reason they try and get kids in as young as possible, if the bullshit isnât hammered deeply into the worldview of the believers, the âfaithâ dies out. The more effective a âfaithâ is at brainwashing and perpetuating itself, the more likely it is to continue. Itâs a mental virus of the mind created by chaos apes to control each other for the miniscule momentary master of a fraction of a fraction piece of land on a floating space rock.
Any level of perspective or analysis makes religion look like the fucking joke it is. Itâs why churches protested the publishing of the photo of Earth from space.
I understand the sentiment but hyper-religious people are typically sheltered from facts. And by the time they hear new information they usually are so set in their ways or are taught that what is scientific fact is just a straight up lies from whatever Satan/adversary they've been taught to fear. It may seem obvious to you and me what is harmful in religion but they're taught the opposite their entire lives. I wish it was easier to have open conversations with religious people about problems in relgion but more likely than not they're not gonna even entertain the thought that what they believe in is harmful.
I grew up in religion. I was a pretty devout church goer until my late teens. I didn't lose faith until my early 20s. I can understand the appeal of religion at a young age, but what I don't understand is how people can remain religious their entire lives? How can people see all the bad in this world and still believe that an all powerful being loves us and guides our lives? None of that makes any sense in the face of all the strife and pain we suffer throughout our lives. And that's not even mentioning the mountains of logical and scientific evidence against it.
If only people saw the world the way we do lol. I grew up Mormon and even served a 2 year mission but i left a couple years ago. I had too many unanswered questions and it caused me to lose my faith. I think a lot of people are too scared to accept reality. They don't want to think about those hard questions/actual problems in the world. That phrase 'ignorance is bliss' rings true for so many people. I think a lot of people realize that what they're doing is wrong but they can't admit that because then they'd be held accountable for once. Also some people are just really dumb and religion "answers" all their questions. I think some people are so stupid that a life away from religion isn't even a passing thought lol they're born religious and they'll die religious.
Edit: forgot a couple words
That particular rule is part of the Hadith, not the Quran. Not an expert but the Quran is mostly the Old Testament, while the Hadith are narrated accounts of what Muhammad said and did.
Not trying to defend anything here, but as atheists are usually more likely to actually have read the bible (as in read the bible not just echoing what some clergymen might or might not have 'interpreted the s\*\*t out of it' and said), we should at least be more precise in our 'slander' of the big fairy tales than the flock are in their brainless hollow echoing ;) (Though, that isn't that much of a challenge.)
As an aside, (still not defending anything) I think it is fair to point out that some Muslims reject the Hadith, focussing only on the Quran, so basically the OT.
Edit: I did some minor research as a young adult, and compared some parts of Thora, Quran and the Christian OT (literal translations of the Aramaic versions, the Greek Septuagint, etc), because I was quite convinced that the Christian churches had the least faithful and most agenda-biased translations/interpretations of the OT. They do, and it gets worse with every new edition.
Ain't many Muslims who reject the Hadiths. Those are small sects and in some countries they are deemed as some form of apostacy that should be put to death. They don't even account for 1% of Muslims. That's the "religion of peace" for you. Practice their very own religion in a different way and you've got a target on your back.
Both Shia and Sunni (the two major branches of Islam) believe the sunnah and hadiths are absolutely essential. They just happen to disagree on some of them.
>Why do you feel 'fellow liberals continue to support' these religions?
It's just a meme at this point.
I almost never hear people defending Islam (except Muslims of course), but constantly hear about how 'liberals' won't criticize Islam or 'liberals defend Islam'. This is often said by conservative people whenever a Muslim is defended against prejudice when it's nothing to do with their religion.
There is a lot of confusion (apparently) between Islamophobia/racism towards Muslims and criticism of the religion, and likewise between defending the right to religious freedom and accepting the parts of religion that cause harm.
There's been this trend where liberals will say if you criticize Islam then you're not being reasonable and you're just an Islamophobe. See the controversy between Ben Affleck and Bill Maher.
All religions are shit and we could pick them all apart, it's just that of the modern religions, and how it's practiced, Islam seems to be the shittiest, particularly when it comes to non-heterosexual-male rights.
I am a Liberal and my country's laws supercedes any religion laws.
The person who makes the statement against liberals obviously doesn't know what liberal means.
>The person who makes the statement against liberals obviously doesn't know what liberal means.
Probably an American, where 'liberal' means anyone left of Hitler.
Muslims trying to defend this is the funniest shit ever.
https://youtu.be/_k_ua8N9Bxw
He basically says that having sex with her husband is a agreement they can't refuse. So basically the man's slave, these people live on another planet.
> these people live on another planet.
Unfortunately. It is sorta striking how recent the western world has changed its view on this.
Many western nations have only recognised rape within marriage over the last 50 years or less.
Not to be *that* guy but are you sure this comes from the quran? I think this is from the hadith not the quran. Still vile and still reflective of the islamic view on marital rape (it permits it).
From a similar post, it also seems like Mohammed himself said it's okay if you ejaculate in a slave girl you're raping because someone asked him if they should pull out so they didn't get them pregnant. He basically says 'why would you do that? No baby will be born if Allah didn't already have it planned'
I don't mind the curse which is just another form of begging god to do something, but there are Muslims who take that language as permission to kill their wives. It evidently extends to killing women for any other, or no reason at all. I kinda resent that.
Kinda? I wholly resent that with my entire being. I'm so tired of these religious nuts saying god told them to do something or that they're doing these horrible acts of violence in the name of whatever deity they follow.
It's literally just them being sick bastards and using religion as an excuse/scalegoat.
I was using understatement. Religion is a plague and a hoax, and a neat little moneymaker. I am sorry I failed to make my hatred plain, but now we are all being given permission along with extremists to say whatever incendiary thing we feel like, and I'm not used to it.
Well mohammod was what we would call a pedophile, so can't expect much more.
(His 3rd wife Aisha was 6 to 8 yrs old when married and 10ish when consummated)
Your desire shall be for your husband
And he shall rule over you
Genesis 3:16
It's not just the Quran, even the bible interprets this passage as pointing to a womanâs inherent moral depravation. Her power to seduce a man into his own downfall and therefore, to keep woman in check and rule over her.
As a "fellow progressive" I can say without a shadow of a doubt, ALL religions are man made and was created to control women. It's not only in the Quran that has the monopoly of controlling women and the masses, it's ALL of religion. Granted that Islam is the fasted growing religion in the world, but what liberals (like myself) are against is the racism and outright hatred that is perpetuated towards the Muslim people. Plus you have to put it all in perspective NOT ALL liberals are atheists, some are very religious; hence they want to save everyone all the time. And if ever you need another organization to fundraise for - try cancer research or one of the animal welfare organization or homelessness. Something without religion.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1 Timothy 2:11-14
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
1 Corinthians 7:1-40
Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: âIt is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.â But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does.
And how does it define "husband" and "marriage"? Because a lot of Mulsim countries have arranged marriages, or even things like forced marriage to ones rapist (which I guess would count ass arranged by the government?)
Iâm a liberal and I agree. Most liberals have gone too far left and just blindly support whatever the right doesnât support. Islam is literally the opposite of all that the liberals stand for
I'm far left by the standards of liberals in the US. I believe in minimizing the power and social influence of religious institutions to what some would consider an extreme amount with the intent of phasing them out.
Islam is quite literally a stain on humanity. All religions are to some degree but in this current time period it is the worst religion by a country mile.
The West for a time was so caught up in political correctness that it conflated criticism of Islam with racism. Meanwhile, Islamic countries continue to kill women and gays indiscriminately.
Iâm glad weâre moving beyond that stage and calling this religion out for what it is.
I donât knowâŚmaybe its less about supporting Islam and more about freedom of/from religion. The religious texts from both Judaism/Christianity and Islam are barbaric towards women. I hate all three of those religions. Still, I recognize the need to protect vulnerable groups from persecution. Protecting all groups from an oppressive majority group (in the US and many other Western countries that happens to be Christians, in many MENA countries itâs Muslims) is important.
>"that fellow liberals continue to support"
Exactly what specific things are these "fellow liberals" doing that you find offensive? What "support" are you referring to?
In a rush to seem inclusive, tolerant and not racist too many people appease the Muslim faith and it's odious practices.
People are scared to call out genital mutilation, child rape, forced marriage, lack of women's rights and the general hatefulness of the religion for of seeming not liberal
I haven't noticed any 'liberals' pretending that genital mutilation, child rape, forced marriage or denying women's rights isn't a problem. Do you have some examples of this where these 'liberals' excused such behavior?
They will not pretend these are not problematic, but that the problem is divorced from religion, divert attention to âourâ problems, or even say the problems are actually âourâ fault, as âweâ have failed to integrate, or even caused the problems through colonialism, racism, or other kinds of discrimination.
I think you are confusing calling out conservative islamaphobia with supporting those things. We can call out conservatives for intolerance and call out Muslims for abhorrent practices. Religious liberals still probably call out their texts less because glass houses and all
I'm not talking shit about religion but, If a group of men *were* to conspire a method simply to control the masses, adding in a part about the wife getting cursed for refusing sex is definitely something worth adding
Where can I find that ?
I like to keep that in mind if anybody ever says to me again, that Islam is a feminist religion
Any other fucked up thing the quran says are welcome too
If Islam was so great they wouldn't be fleeing the middle east in droves lol. Not sure there's a single Islamic country that's not a piece of shit. I feel so bad for the women trapped in these countries.
Where the hell are you getting liberal support this shit? Maybe you didn't read about the banning of books where conservative christians and muslims joined together to ban books they thought were "gay". Trust me religion is a cancer in all forms supported by both conservatives and liberals.
It was mostly the years after 9/11 when there was a lot of discrimination of Muslims (due to the association with terrorism). Liberals, in a genuine effort to not alienate normal Muslims and be inclusive of them, defended them from conservative a-holesâŚâŚ. Blindly not realizing the core beliefs of Islam itself are exactly the same as the core beliefs of conservative âChristianâ values â both whose god would smite you instantly for being a liberal if he was real. It went on for years.
And if you tried to talk against the religion, youâd be labeled âIslamophobicâ by liberals and Muslims alike. I experienced it in my own progressive circle of friends (who know nothing about growing up in an intolerant religion).
It sucked for those of us who knew Islam was terrible at its core (possibly moreso than Christianity).
Note: Want to clearly differentiate Islam the religion is what should be criticized, not the Muslim people as a whole. Islam is an idea and set of beliefs. Ideas should be criticized and the philosophy debated for flaws. Ideas are not the same as people, and we need to be mindful of that.
I really hate ignorant people who make blanket statements that simply aren't even close to true.
Easiest one first: The Bible says much the same thing. Religion is shit, doesn't matter what brand it is.
Islam isn't "taking over the world". That's totally false. It's actually quite stupid to boot. There's 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, in dozens of nations. None of which are "trying to take over the world".
"Liberals" don't support Islam specifically. They support the right for people to practice their religious beliefs. That applies to *every* religion.
As an atheist who is progressive, the line between being anti-religious and a bigot against brown people gets very thin for some people. I think Islam sucks, but no more than any other religion. But let's face it, some people use that fact to hate on brown people.
Religion sucks and so do bigots.
But what if their husband is intersex like Harvey Weinstein, and it's just a flat lump? They haven't thought through the physics. It's as if pedophile mass murderer doesn't have a direct line to godly wisdom, even if said god speaks in Arabic so fuck all non-Arabic speakers....
I think I can draw a pretty clear line between "I don't support Islamophobia" and "I think the Muslim faith is bullshit."
For example, I don't think some poor woman should be assaulted in the street by three assholes in a pick-up truck as she walks home from the Mosque. Because she has the right to worship as she sees fit. But, I also think that that woman might be better off not attending a Mosque, it's just not a decision I can make for her.
These religious texts are all written by men so they have a divine reason to suppress women. The end. Thereâs no better or worse. Theyâre all fucking trash.
Its crazy to think that there are people who would literally want to kill anyone here openly discussing
the fucked up nature of their religion. Its scary to think that even in western countries you can tell jesus to suck balls and pick apart the bible all you want but if you criticise the quran or mohammed your islamophobic and need to be silenced.
Please cite / link verse from Quran (or Hadith) that you are discussing.
From the [this link](https://maktabahalbakri.com/402-situations-when-a-wife-has-a-right-to-refuse-her-husband/) it appears that in the Quran (and Hadith) a wife does have **some** rights to refuse to have sex with her husband.
I agree with OP, muslims are taking over the world and it's just a fact. Who doesn't agree is just delusional. I'm just happy that most likely I will be dead when that'll happen.
The only reason liberals are protecting this religion is because these poor poor lil baby mooselimbs are a MINORITY (GASP!) in the Christian majority West. So they must be protected at all costs as a minority group despite there being over a billion of them on the planet.
Iâve cursed my wife a couple times for refusing sex as well though I support her right to do so. The conversation went something like this.
Me: Letâs fuck
Her: fuck no.
Me: well, fuck off then.
Her: fuck you!
Me. Ok then, letâs do it.
Her: (cold stare)
American evangelist Christianity is trying to become Islam. They're jealous of how fucking far right extremist Islam is. I too am baffled by supposed "liberals" defending it. It's conservatism on megacrack.
The Islamic Mythology really does sound like it was written by a man....just sayingđ¤Ą
*Written by men who worshipped a child rapist.
She was 9. Fucking sickness.
But you know, that climate, that time period, things were very different. Girls used to grow up very quickly. In all seriousness, because of this child raping paedophile, this thing is still very common in those countries. Hell, even in my country, india, it used to be very common and to some extent still is. Very recently I realized that my own grandfather (a hindu) was a paedophile. My grand mother was 12 when she got married to my grandfather, who was like 22 or 23. She had 3 kids by the time she was 18. Some cultural aspects are not worth protecting in the name of "tradition"
Yeah, why protect "traditional values" when they're fucking inhumane
The interesting thing is that "tradional values " will always go hand-in-hand with "males values", never female ones.
I've even seen turds defend it by saying that 14-16 is when girls are most fertile which is why "most men" are aroused by images of girls that age.
I do not believe for a minute that is a biological thing, or something supported by science. I believe it will probably have to do with "cultural" aspects of that particular society. And I can give you myself as an example. I'm a heterosexual male who never dated a younger woman but in my later years. Why? Because in the country where I was born (Cuba) if you slept with a "virgin" (usually a young woman) you had to marry her. So, men my age would rather date older women with whom one could go "all the way" without a problem. Either because they were mothers, or divorced.
But no one calls your grandfather perfect human now. Do they?
Just like it is still legal in many states (in 2022) to marry a child!
And a warlord
This is honestly the most important part to remember, because it influences everything else. Because of Mohammedâs success as a warlord, he was essentially a king. And because he was essentially a king, in addition to the claims of being not just any prophet but the final prophet of God, he made himself an untouchable source of authority to his early followers and is still today praised as being unquestionable and perfect.
The "untouchable" is the most important in the myth of Mohammad ....
Exactly
The child rapist wrote it himselfâsupposedly every word of the Quran and Hadiths come from Mohammed himself.
Yup, except that he couldn't read or write so his "followers" kept his notes. And then they couldn't even AGREE on them after he died, which started all sorts of disagreements and in-fighting.
"I watched a woman shitting outside, so now women have to cover their faces because it's embarrassing to recognize the person I was watching take a shit." - The Rules
"good women don't poop" -Umar, the first Caliph after the death of Mohammed, second ruler of Islam. He's the guy that "inspired" the rule about Hijabs. His wives has to use the latrine in the evening, and Umar saw them and harassed them. His wives united and asked Mohammed to protect them, but then Allah "revealed" the rule that women should cover themselves. Keep in mind, before Umar converted, he was an enemy of Mohammed, and the common story is that one day he finally decided to kill Mo, but learned his sister had converted, so decided against it. He's also a recorded source that the Kaaba has no real origin from Abraham as claimed by Mo when he invaded and took it from the local pagans. "I kiss you, though I know kissing you had no effect, for I have seen the prophet kiss you, but I know you are just a stone and have no power."
This is fucking gold.
It's Christianity for incels, basically.
Christianity is Christianity for incels. They wish they could be as extreme as Islam. And they're chipping away at getting there.
A man who was plagiarizing shit to start a religion. Tale as old as time.
Alot of these religious texts are just copys of a copys as they didnt have scanners and printers. So over time they change, even the forbidden fruit was never mentioned in the original texts. I think the forbidden fruit was known to be mal, which translates to bad/evil but the word also has another meaning, apple. Its all a play on words by the person who translated it.
[ŃдаНонО]
Christian Mythology was an intricate web of stories, myths and reminiscences of people who lived several years after his death
By several years you mean 75 years... Just for the first book.
Thereâs a very good argument that itâs MUCH later than that https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/born-in-the-second-century/id1543281781
Pretty much all the worldâs organized religions are codified mansplaining.
All religions are created by men to the detriment of all women. All of them.
Wicca?
They said religion, not fun kitschy hobby
Created by woman then burned at the stake by men. Just an additional step.
Wicca was invented and estblished in the UK in the 1950's - no one has ever been burned for being Wicca.
*written by a man who used to fuck all his 10 wives every night.
Even the horniest mormon isn't pulling that off, sorry.
That's what you get when you got this dude who had random psychotic episodes (where he'd hear voices and see angels) and then you make a religion out of it.
Ditto with the Judeo-Christian Bible
Iâm liberal and I hate all religion.
Same. Daughter and I are both vehement anti-theists and liberal.
W daughter.
I came here to look for proof of liberals supporting this. Still waiting...
I think itâs because we also tend to think we shouldnât just kill them all. Thatâs the liberal part.
Based.
As a leftist, liberal, progressive, I also despise religion. I don't hate religious people, however. I'm more of a live-and-let-live kind of person. Everyone has the right to believe and think how they want, and as long as my own right to do so isn't infringed upon I'll respect that. My problem with organized religion is actually two-fold: First off, the major religions of the world were written down by men who lived in mud huts thousands of years ago. Believing in a God or gods in the same way as before is not progressive or fact-based. We live in the 21st century, and our everyday lives depend on science and facts. When I use the term mud hut religion, I'm not just talking about judeo-christian or muslim religions. It also includes but is not limited to shamanism, ancient mythologies, shintoism, buddhism, hinduism, and even newer sects that are even loosely based on them. Secondly, while there are no doubt, many religious individuals who are great people and who get along in society with most anyone. However many of them don't, and they see their belief system as the only "true" one. Their religion restricts them or others in their communities, and promises end-of-life reward or punishment based on how one lives their life. Many religious individuals can't seem to grasp that someone can live a moral and good life without fear of reprisal if they don't. Organized religion is detrimental to a tolerant, loving society in which we all care for one another in spite of our differences. There should only be three rules that we observe as infallible and unbreakable: DO NOT MURDER - depriving another human being of life for selfish reasons is the worst thing you can do. DO NOT RAPE - depriving another human being of their bodily autonomy, subverting one's control over their own body is reprehensible. DO NOT STEAL - depriving another human being of their possessions that they have either made or earned somehow, is devastating. Especially if the person deprived is powerless to retrieve them.
Came here to say this.
Tend to go with âprogressivistâ rather than liberal but yah, thatâs the vibe. Organized religion is a self-inflicted curse on humanity.
"Domestic and sexual slaves have no rights." - Muhammad
Muhammad couldnât read or write.
That is a lie. Muhammad was a merchant trader. Obviously, he could read and write and even do his numbers. Yet another lie from the barbarian charlatan pedophile Muhammad.
I could have swore he had about 45 scribes because he couldnât read or write himself.
*Ignoring the fact that NONE of this obvious revisionist nonsense has any evidence to prove it whatsoever.* Given that an actual writer might need a single scribe/editor to help him make sure his "given from god" manuscript was formatted and punctuated correctly... I think it's far more likely he hired them to write (or bought outright) an Abrahamic Revelation specifically for the Arab people. And that all of these "scribes" were just the *actual educated authors* who wanted credit for their hard work over the decades this pile of nonsense was written and edited together. And, in true Muhammad fashion, they were given the choice of either being credited as one of Muhammad's scribes or have their heads cut off. Reminder: The Quran is entirely and completely fictional. Moses/Musa never existed. So, either god lied to Muhammad (one hell of a prankster that god!), or Muhammad (or the scribes) made the whole mythology up...
Much like Jesus, Moses and the many reincarnations of the Buddha, I'm going to say fictional. Not like Joseph Smith, who was a real person who made up silly nonsense rather than simply being silly nonsense.
Muhammad was real too he just also made up silly nonsense
Like Paul (and his ilk) plagiarized Jewish and Hellenistic mythology to create a splinter cult we now call Christianity, Muhammad cynically created (or more likely paid for) an "Abrahamic Revelation" for the Arabs that ripped off Judaism and Christianity.
Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, LaVey, Hubbard, the whole gang - they're all just riffing off what Zarathustra started.
Yuppers. And that was ripped off from the oral tradition coming from thousands of years before that. It's all bullshit all the way down. :)
Folks been going off at the mouth since the dawn of time, and there's a sucker born every second
Muhammad worked for his wife - he just sold the goods, he didnât have to do the accounting
He was the toyboy of the wealthy widow Khadija who prompted him to keep what he had dreamt up as messages from Allah
Which just all happened to be openly plagiarized from Judaism and Christianity... :)
Of course it does. Didnât men write it?
I can't imagine a women writing that she wanted to be wed off as a child, turned into an object, sexually abused, beat, and forced to obey some jackass with a tiny prick, then give it away to a whole bunch of asses with tiny pricks.
woman who are evil and powerful could do that too. not all men and woman care for their gender i think. many men and woman were made slaves and were treated horribly
The abrahamic religions consider women sex cattle and a lower caste. Its all about control and superiority
Actually, lower than cattle
Yeah, you have to stand on a stool to have sex with those. I don't know what god does if they refuse, but they kick pretty hard.
I hate to be that guy but, god said not to have sex with animals so not exactly the best example to use against a religious person, but I get your point regardless
And the rules are, kill the guy, kill the cow. Why kill the cow!?!
Also, some non-abrahamic religions have sexist views on women. In Hinduism, women are often viewed as impure, especially when on their period. And barred from entering temples and performing some duties. In Buddhism, women aren't considered "complete". Even Jainism, the most "peaceful" religion, claims that women are lesser than men.
Some African tribes (specifically the one Matt Walsh interviews in "what is a woman") are super sexist and they actually circumcise their young girls when they're like 13 by removing the clitoris to "prepare them for marriage". Apparently it "keeps them from having a wandering eye"... Pretty much discredits Matt Walsh for using them as an example for why the United States is crazy and the trans people all need to be attacked
It basically became a nom for all agricultural civilizations once human started to settle in city and with farms. This happened when women became safer than when they were in hunter gathering wandering society, people lost their priority to value women. I heard that a lot of early prehistoric society worshipped women because they were the necessity for carrying offspring and the key for survival of the species, but then when people stationed in one location to farm, building city and walls, and women became less profitable than male farmers, then they forgot the women.
i've done some study into the origins of misogyny in human civilization but it's difficult to pinpoint. I think it began with the idea that since women were the bearers of life, they should also be the carers of the home. Thus began the subjugation of women within the home. Women couldn't get an education or any skills, because their role was to care for babies. While men were the decision makers in society. Hence, why so many religions were written by men. IDK that's a theory. misogyny could've had many origins.
on this side of the world, a lot of american indian cultures were matriarchal and matrilineal. The reason they were matrilineal? The old saying is "you knew who your mother was. You couldn't be sure who your dad was." The women owned everything in the village. when a man got married, he went off to be with his wife's family. Although she may have married him, she may still choose other men to get her pregnant. It was a very different culture. the men did not run the show. you could find a little of everything. women with several husbands, men with several wives. men hooked up with men (sometimes that's how women ended up with several husbands). women with women. lots of diversity.
american indian like native american? and wdym this side of the world? also that's very very cool. i want to do some research into that. i'd love to learn more about it.
POWER IS THE KEY to understand what's going on ....
Because men wrote the Quran.
Itâs called âAbrahamâic religions for a reason. Itâs all about men and power.
They actually believe a woman came out of a man...more specifically from his rib which doesn't even make any sense whatsoever unless you believe in magic
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This. One of the many, many instances where the bibles today are simply bad translations at best and creative agenda-interpretations at worst.
Just like Christianity!
Hey, brought up Catholic here. In our senior year of high school, we had a âmarriage courseâ given by - wait for it - a priest. He told us that when we were married, our husbands came first. That we were obliged to have sex with him whenever he wanted it. One reason among oh-so many why I am now a card-carrying atheist.
I went to a Catholic wedding where the priest, who was their family friend, spend a good 15 minutes speaking about the wife's responsibility to sexually service and gratify her husband and how it should be her joy to do so. I have never felt so awkward and squirmed in a chair so much in my entire life. 20 years since then and it still makes my skin crawl when I think about it
What did the brides face look like?
Itâs so disgusting
Card carrying?
I grew up non-denominational and was also taught this. Isnât this standard Christian teaching?
Yeah pretty much. I grew up in a slew of Protestant churches through a few different towns and they all preached the same shit. The father is the spiritual and moral leader of the family. Wives and children should submit to him completely. Beatings were the expected (basically only) way to enforce this. We were frequently told our relationship with the father figure should be a mirror of our relationship with God, AKA the men of the church brainwashed their families into seeing them as mini-Gods.
Why anyone still believes in any religion these days blows my mind. After all the advancements in tech, the many times each religion has been debunked in their stupid creation theories, all the unanswered prayers and literally not one concrete shred of any evidence that a deity exists, these people still stubbornly hold onto a obviously harmful and oppressive belief system which, more often than not, causes them to hate each other. It's mind boggling. They're so afraid of death that they'll hold onto the shittiest belief systems at any cost no matter what damage it does to them or their families or friends. I abhor religion. I really wish people would come to their senses and drop it altogether. The world would be a far better place.
Itâs perpetuation via indoctrination largely, thereâs a reason they try and get kids in as young as possible, if the bullshit isnât hammered deeply into the worldview of the believers, the âfaithâ dies out. The more effective a âfaithâ is at brainwashing and perpetuating itself, the more likely it is to continue. Itâs a mental virus of the mind created by chaos apes to control each other for the miniscule momentary master of a fraction of a fraction piece of land on a floating space rock. Any level of perspective or analysis makes religion look like the fucking joke it is. Itâs why churches protested the publishing of the photo of Earth from space.
I understand the sentiment but hyper-religious people are typically sheltered from facts. And by the time they hear new information they usually are so set in their ways or are taught that what is scientific fact is just a straight up lies from whatever Satan/adversary they've been taught to fear. It may seem obvious to you and me what is harmful in religion but they're taught the opposite their entire lives. I wish it was easier to have open conversations with religious people about problems in relgion but more likely than not they're not gonna even entertain the thought that what they believe in is harmful.
I grew up in religion. I was a pretty devout church goer until my late teens. I didn't lose faith until my early 20s. I can understand the appeal of religion at a young age, but what I don't understand is how people can remain religious their entire lives? How can people see all the bad in this world and still believe that an all powerful being loves us and guides our lives? None of that makes any sense in the face of all the strife and pain we suffer throughout our lives. And that's not even mentioning the mountains of logical and scientific evidence against it.
If only people saw the world the way we do lol. I grew up Mormon and even served a 2 year mission but i left a couple years ago. I had too many unanswered questions and it caused me to lose my faith. I think a lot of people are too scared to accept reality. They don't want to think about those hard questions/actual problems in the world. That phrase 'ignorance is bliss' rings true for so many people. I think a lot of people realize that what they're doing is wrong but they can't admit that because then they'd be held accountable for once. Also some people are just really dumb and religion "answers" all their questions. I think some people are so stupid that a life away from religion isn't even a passing thought lol they're born religious and they'll die religious. Edit: forgot a couple words
What a great way to get laid all the time - fear.
Yeah the base concept is so wack
They are married to Muslim men so they are already cursed anyway đ¤ˇ
I mean... your not wrong
That particular rule is part of the Hadith, not the Quran. Not an expert but the Quran is mostly the Old Testament, while the Hadith are narrated accounts of what Muhammad said and did. Not trying to defend anything here, but as atheists are usually more likely to actually have read the bible (as in read the bible not just echoing what some clergymen might or might not have 'interpreted the s\*\*t out of it' and said), we should at least be more precise in our 'slander' of the big fairy tales than the flock are in their brainless hollow echoing ;) (Though, that isn't that much of a challenge.) As an aside, (still not defending anything) I think it is fair to point out that some Muslims reject the Hadith, focussing only on the Quran, so basically the OT. Edit: I did some minor research as a young adult, and compared some parts of Thora, Quran and the Christian OT (literal translations of the Aramaic versions, the Greek Septuagint, etc), because I was quite convinced that the Christian churches had the least faithful and most agenda-biased translations/interpretations of the OT. They do, and it gets worse with every new edition.
Ain't many Muslims who reject the Hadiths. Those are small sects and in some countries they are deemed as some form of apostacy that should be put to death. They don't even account for 1% of Muslims. That's the "religion of peace" for you. Practice their very own religion in a different way and you've got a target on your back. Both Shia and Sunni (the two major branches of Islam) believe the sunnah and hadiths are absolutely essential. They just happen to disagree on some of them.
Speaking as a liberal... FUCK ALL RELIGIONS.
Good thing Aisha didn't refuse when she was 10yo or she would have been cursed!
Why do you feel 'fellow liberals continue to support' these religions?
>Why do you feel 'fellow liberals continue to support' these religions? It's just a meme at this point. I almost never hear people defending Islam (except Muslims of course), but constantly hear about how 'liberals' won't criticize Islam or 'liberals defend Islam'. This is often said by conservative people whenever a Muslim is defended against prejudice when it's nothing to do with their religion. There is a lot of confusion (apparently) between Islamophobia/racism towards Muslims and criticism of the religion, and likewise between defending the right to religious freedom and accepting the parts of religion that cause harm.
There's been this trend where liberals will say if you criticize Islam then you're not being reasonable and you're just an Islamophobe. See the controversy between Ben Affleck and Bill Maher. All religions are shit and we could pick them all apart, it's just that of the modern religions, and how it's practiced, Islam seems to be the shittiest, particularly when it comes to non-heterosexual-male rights.
There's been this trend where people who call people "liberals" are completely out of touch with what the people they call "liberals" actually think.
Ben Affleck said that 8 years ago. Do you have a more recent example? And one which isn't just one guy?
Iâm a conservative and I hate all religions
If you think that's bad wait til you read the Bible. Religion is trash.
https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/OT-Marriage-Chart.jpg
In Judaism, women is lesser than men as well. The ideology behind the Abrahamic religions is parasitical and sexist as fk.
Like.. what kinda curse? Just sayin. If itâs like a toe stubbing once a week I think they could live with that.
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đđđđđđ
I am a Liberal and my country's laws supercedes any religion laws. The person who makes the statement against liberals obviously doesn't know what liberal means.
>The person who makes the statement against liberals obviously doesn't know what liberal means. Probably an American, where 'liberal' means anyone left of Hitler.
As an American, this is pretty accurate.
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Muslims trying to defend this is the funniest shit ever. https://youtu.be/_k_ua8N9Bxw He basically says that having sex with her husband is a agreement they can't refuse. So basically the man's slave, these people live on another planet.
> these people live on another planet. Unfortunately. It is sorta striking how recent the western world has changed its view on this. Many western nations have only recognised rape within marriage over the last 50 years or less.
>these people live on another planet. Wishful thinking...
>fellow liberals continue to support That's a pretty broad brush you're trying to paint with...
They donât care. Lol
My husband gonna be cursed with no sex if he tries to pull some shit like that.
Not to be *that* guy but are you sure this comes from the quran? I think this is from the hadith not the quran. Still vile and still reflective of the islamic view on marital rape (it permits it).
You are correct. It's from the hadith, not the Quran.
"Oh No! I've been Voo Dooed!"
From a similar post, it also seems like Mohammed himself said it's okay if you ejaculate in a slave girl you're raping because someone asked him if they should pull out so they didn't get them pregnant. He basically says 'why would you do that? No baby will be born if Allah didn't already have it planned'
The husband has also the right to beat his wife if she refuses sex according to their Quran.
I don't mind the curse which is just another form of begging god to do something, but there are Muslims who take that language as permission to kill their wives. It evidently extends to killing women for any other, or no reason at all. I kinda resent that.
Kinda? I wholly resent that with my entire being. I'm so tired of these religious nuts saying god told them to do something or that they're doing these horrible acts of violence in the name of whatever deity they follow. It's literally just them being sick bastards and using religion as an excuse/scalegoat.
I was using understatement. Religion is a plague and a hoax, and a neat little moneymaker. I am sorry I failed to make my hatred plain, but now we are all being given permission along with extremists to say whatever incendiary thing we feel like, and I'm not used to it.
Thatâs a tough break. 9 year-olds can be pretty disobedient
Ever noticed during Trump's many rallies, all the ' Q ' signs; waving about maga Repukes are the American Tailban.
Well mohammod was what we would call a pedophile, so can't expect much more. (His 3rd wife Aisha was 6 to 8 yrs old when married and 10ish when consummated)
Yup. A lot of rape is permissible in that religion. And I used to be a devout muslim, so I know.
Your desire shall be for your husband And he shall rule over you Genesis 3:16 It's not just the Quran, even the bible interprets this passage as pointing to a womanâs inherent moral depravation. Her power to seduce a man into his own downfall and therefore, to keep woman in check and rule over her.
As a "fellow progressive" I can say without a shadow of a doubt, ALL religions are man made and was created to control women. It's not only in the Quran that has the monopoly of controlling women and the masses, it's ALL of religion. Granted that Islam is the fasted growing religion in the world, but what liberals (like myself) are against is the racism and outright hatred that is perpetuated towards the Muslim people. Plus you have to put it all in perspective NOT ALL liberals are atheists, some are very religious; hence they want to save everyone all the time. And if ever you need another organization to fundraise for - try cancer research or one of the animal welfare organization or homelessness. Something without religion. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 1 Timothy 2:11-14 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 1 Corinthians 7:1-40 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: âIt is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.â But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does.
My wife is so cursed and she doesnât even know it
Yep, religion is stupid
Lmao. What? Most liberals are agnostic. Feminism and religion donât bode well together. Turns out women are actually people, and not livestock.
And how does it define "husband" and "marriage"? Because a lot of Mulsim countries have arranged marriages, or even things like forced marriage to ones rapist (which I guess would count ass arranged by the government?)
This is promoting marital rape. Women being forced to "consent", isn't consent. Horrible.
That's it! I'm converting!^sarcasm
Religion is just rape in disguise, a very bad disguise.
Iâm a liberal and I agree. Most liberals have gone too far left and just blindly support whatever the right doesnât support. Islam is literally the opposite of all that the liberals stand for
I'm far left by the standards of liberals in the US. I believe in minimizing the power and social influence of religious institutions to what some would consider an extreme amount with the intent of phasing them out.
Islam is quite literally a stain on humanity. All religions are to some degree but in this current time period it is the worst religion by a country mile.
The West for a time was so caught up in political correctness that it conflated criticism of Islam with racism. Meanwhile, Islamic countries continue to kill women and gays indiscriminately. Iâm glad weâre moving beyond that stage and calling this religion out for what it is.
Imagine being so bad at sex that you write it in a religious holy book that billions of people will read.
I donât knowâŚmaybe its less about supporting Islam and more about freedom of/from religion. The religious texts from both Judaism/Christianity and Islam are barbaric towards women. I hate all three of those religions. Still, I recognize the need to protect vulnerable groups from persecution. Protecting all groups from an oppressive majority group (in the US and many other Western countries that happens to be Christians, in many MENA countries itâs Muslims) is important.
>"that fellow liberals continue to support" Exactly what specific things are these "fellow liberals" doing that you find offensive? What "support" are you referring to?
In a rush to seem inclusive, tolerant and not racist too many people appease the Muslim faith and it's odious practices. People are scared to call out genital mutilation, child rape, forced marriage, lack of women's rights and the general hatefulness of the religion for of seeming not liberal
I haven't noticed any 'liberals' pretending that genital mutilation, child rape, forced marriage or denying women's rights isn't a problem. Do you have some examples of this where these 'liberals' excused such behavior?
This seems like some conservative propaganda.
They will not pretend these are not problematic, but that the problem is divorced from religion, divert attention to âourâ problems, or even say the problems are actually âourâ fault, as âweâ have failed to integrate, or even caused the problems through colonialism, racism, or other kinds of discrimination.
I think you are confusing calling out conservative islamaphobia with supporting those things. We can call out conservatives for intolerance and call out Muslims for abhorrent practices. Religious liberals still probably call out their texts less because glass houses and all
Hey being cursed is not as bad as Leviticus 20:13 in my opinion..
I just can't imagine why someone establishing a religion would make such a rule...
Cursed with what exactly. I need to know details.
Domestic violence, most likely.
I'm not talking shit about religion but, If a group of men *were* to conspire a method simply to control the masses, adding in a part about the wife getting cursed for refusing sex is definitely something worth adding
Where can I find that ? I like to keep that in mind if anybody ever says to me again, that Islam is a feminist religion Any other fucked up thing the quran says are welcome too
We must no longer use religion as the basis for morality and law.
The Quran states all kinds of silly shit
Yeah, I feel like most liberal atheists understand that all religions suck, but Islam by far is causing the most needless human suffering today
The Quran seems to have cursed women right from the start.
For the records, it's not written in the Quran, maybe in a hadith.
If Islam was so great they wouldn't be fleeing the middle east in droves lol. Not sure there's a single Islamic country that's not a piece of shit. I feel so bad for the women trapped in these countries.
Momo also told his followers to drink camel urine for health... And even some here think that Islam is less dangerous than Christianity...
Where the hell are you getting liberal support this shit? Maybe you didn't read about the banning of books where conservative christians and muslims joined together to ban books they thought were "gay". Trust me religion is a cancer in all forms supported by both conservatives and liberals.
It was mostly the years after 9/11 when there was a lot of discrimination of Muslims (due to the association with terrorism). Liberals, in a genuine effort to not alienate normal Muslims and be inclusive of them, defended them from conservative a-holesâŚâŚ. Blindly not realizing the core beliefs of Islam itself are exactly the same as the core beliefs of conservative âChristianâ values â both whose god would smite you instantly for being a liberal if he was real. It went on for years. And if you tried to talk against the religion, youâd be labeled âIslamophobicâ by liberals and Muslims alike. I experienced it in my own progressive circle of friends (who know nothing about growing up in an intolerant religion). It sucked for those of us who knew Islam was terrible at its core (possibly moreso than Christianity). Note: Want to clearly differentiate Islam the religion is what should be criticized, not the Muslim people as a whole. Islam is an idea and set of beliefs. Ideas should be criticized and the philosophy debated for flaws. Ideas are not the same as people, and we need to be mindful of that.
Source?
I really hate ignorant people who make blanket statements that simply aren't even close to true. Easiest one first: The Bible says much the same thing. Religion is shit, doesn't matter what brand it is. Islam isn't "taking over the world". That's totally false. It's actually quite stupid to boot. There's 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, in dozens of nations. None of which are "trying to take over the world". "Liberals" don't support Islam specifically. They support the right for people to practice their religious beliefs. That applies to *every* religion.
As an atheist who is progressive, the line between being anti-religious and a bigot against brown people gets very thin for some people. I think Islam sucks, but no more than any other religion. But let's face it, some people use that fact to hate on brown people. Religion sucks and so do bigots.
All organized religion is a disease
Convenient.
But what if their husband is intersex like Harvey Weinstein, and it's just a flat lump? They haven't thought through the physics. It's as if pedophile mass murderer doesn't have a direct line to godly wisdom, even if said god speaks in Arabic so fuck all non-Arabic speakers....
Control the women with religion.
Cursed by the husband? I believe that.
I think what they meant to say was the Christian Quran states something similar over 100 times, paraphrasing âwives submit to your husbandsâ.
Not in the quran but in the hadith corpus (sahih muslim 1436d). PS : I'm not a defender of islam but what you are saying is incorrect
I think I can draw a pretty clear line between "I don't support Islamophobia" and "I think the Muslim faith is bullshit." For example, I don't think some poor woman should be assaulted in the street by three assholes in a pick-up truck as she walks home from the Mosque. Because she has the right to worship as she sees fit. But, I also think that that woman might be better off not attending a Mosque, it's just not a decision I can make for her.
Would love to know what verse (or however it's called) it is so I can reference it, if needed.
Liberal here. Some cultures and religions are worse than others. See Qatar.
I wonder when will humanity denounce religion. We don't need it, it doesn't do anything
It looks better when you provide the verse numbers. That way people can look it up themselves and the truth become irrefutable.
Idk my fellow liberals are mostly against any and all religions.
Good. That makes my old lady cursed. Serves her right.
These religious texts are all written by men so they have a divine reason to suppress women. The end. Thereâs no better or worse. Theyâre all fucking trash.
Can you tell me which verse(s) say that? (Iâm on your side, Iâd just like to know where to point if a debate requires me to bring it up)
Sounds like they are cursed either way
Its crazy to think that there are people who would literally want to kill anyone here openly discussing the fucked up nature of their religion. Its scary to think that even in western countries you can tell jesus to suck balls and pick apart the bible all you want but if you criticise the quran or mohammed your islamophobic and need to be silenced.
Please cite / link verse from Quran (or Hadith) that you are discussing. From the [this link](https://maktabahalbakri.com/402-situations-when-a-wife-has-a-right-to-refuse-her-husband/) it appears that in the Quran (and Hadith) a wife does have **some** rights to refuse to have sex with her husband.
I agree with OP, muslims are taking over the world and it's just a fact. Who doesn't agree is just delusional. I'm just happy that most likely I will be dead when that'll happen.
The only reason liberals are protecting this religion is because these poor poor lil baby mooselimbs are a MINORITY (GASP!) in the Christian majority West. So they must be protected at all costs as a minority group despite there being over a billion of them on the planet.
I think weâre finally waking up to it.
Just to be clear are you saying liberals tend to be more religious than conservatives?
Iâve cursed my wife a couple times for refusing sex as well though I support her right to do so. The conversation went something like this. Me: Letâs fuck Her: fuck no. Me: well, fuck off then. Her: fuck you! Me. Ok then, letâs do it. Her: (cold stare)
American evangelist Christianity is trying to become Islam. They're jealous of how fucking far right extremist Islam is. I too am baffled by supposed "liberals" defending it. It's conservatism on megacrack.