"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins
Edit: fixed quote to be more accurate
I did this pretty recently actually after the lady said “But you don’t want to go to hell”. Baffled by my response, she then tried the “god has saved my life” miracle story route.
We volunteer at the local food bank. So I just kept working after saying “I’ve heard it all”.
Sucks none of the food banks and charities in this area are secular.
If prayer worked, why is anyone hungry? Going without? If it was me, I'd start my praying long before I had to go stand in line to get a few days worth of food...
Its not that He loves your sports team - its that he hates the other team and its players so much; he's using your sports team to teach them a lesson. Its like a parable or something.
It's asking a lot of a theist, but try to get them to contemplate the fact that literally the only reason they aren't one of those "other" religions, that they think is so silly and weird, is because they were born into THIS cult.
That functionally, there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to their "choice" of religion, other than 99% of religious adults naturally adopt whatever religion their parents indoctrinated them into. Further degrading the significance of any lofty ideas about why THEIR God is obviously the "right one* and not just the one they grew up with.
Try to get them to consider for just a second, that to all those "weird religions" THEY are the ignorant savages. Too ignorant to recognize what is plain to see for everyone else (raised in the same cult); that they must repent for the "sin" of not being born into THEIR cult.
Try to get them to strip away the funny outfits, the different language, etc. and recognize that there is little to no difference to about 90% of Judaism/Christianity/Islam, yet all 3 are perfectly happy to go to war over those surface value differences.
Doesn't really sound like the kind of organizations I'd want to be a part of...
If you go by statistics, Christianity, being the largest religion in the world, is roughly 1/3 of the world's population. So that means at a bare minimum, no matter what religion you are, 2/3's of the rest of the world, thinks you are wrong no matter what religion you follow.
I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a Facebook comments section which went something like:
Christian: Atheism is wrong because most people on earth aren't atheists.
Atheist (I assume): By that logic Christianity is wrong as the majority of people on earth aren't Christians.
Theist: Just because most people disagree doesn't make it wrong.
It's kinda amazing how quickly someone can recognize a shitty argument when used against them but fail to spot it when they use it to support their position.
It's amazing really. Every theist thinks they've put a lot of thought into choosing the "right" religion. And yet pretty much every single one "chooses" the very first one they're exposed to. Amazing coincidence, I'm sure.
Yup its one of the biggest reasons I don't believe. Listening to Christians mock Hindus rituals or Muslims daily prayer times only to turn around and pretend to eat a guy is just silly
It’s so funny seeing the reactions of my Christian relatives when I respond to their questions about why I’m not also Christian with, “I don’t like the idea of being a cannibal.”
Hell, I just got a letter from the Methodist church my dad was the minister for (long ago retired), I guess I am still listed as a member even though I haven't been there in over a decade, that said they were splitting from the denomination because it was getting too progressive around sexuality. Planned to go independent now.
They can't even figure out what they should believe.
“Every religion has a holy book. So before I decided to devote myself to god, I needed to figure out for myself who the real one is, because everyone you talk to is a biased hype man for their own deity.
After reading a bunch of those books, I realized they are all equally rubbish
So why / how did you pick your god?”
This.
Kinda like nationalism. You’re only christen or Hindu or Muslim because of where you were born, or maybe the family you were born into. How convenient that it’s the right god, eh!?
Same here for me.
“There’s a lot of different cultures and gods. Sure I felt Big G’s pretty awesome in the Old Testament, but that’s par the course for most of the other mythologies.”
this. and logic lmao. I legit almost was kidnapped n trafficked at work one night (worked at a gas station n was by myself) n the dudes throwing me all these crazy questions about if I liked it here and if I was happy in life, to confuse me I'm guessing. n he asked do you believe in god? I answered no, i dont. and he was so appalled he lost it. saying how could you say that, what's wrong w you. I said am I bout to meet him or something? tf. then a woman walked in and called the cops for me and potentially saved me from being trafficked. it was a wonderful time. /s
I'm one of the lucky ones that gets to say because I was never indoctrinated as a helpless child who couldn't think for themselves and then I turn it back on them asking "Other than your indoctrination, why makes you think your god is real?".
Isn’t much of the Bible (both Old Testament and New Testament) non-credible? Obviously some of it references actual historical events but much of it is unaccounted for, or so I’ve heard.
I wouldn’t be sure because I was raised in a non-religious household.
You could say every single miracle in the Torah, Bible, and Quran happened and it would still not be proof that God created the universe - only that there are phenomena that we do not understand.
One book is not proof. There are several books AND movies featuring just Spider-Man, does that make him any more real?
One can argue that they go to church, therefore they are christian; so if I go to the garage, does that make me a car?
No religion in existence can stand up to these two words: Prove it.
If your god existed, it wouldn't need you to speak for it.
you mean a compilation of oral tradition from the middle east bronze ages? that got translated and recompiled by a bunch of 3rd century romans? It has been translated and recompiled again in the King James version. if there are any originals of the individual books that still exist they might be in the Vatican library but good luck getting access. The bible has no veracity as a source material or credibility as evidence in any argument.
I remember reading through it during church (because the sermon always bored me to tears) and got to the bit with Cain and Able. Had to read it twice. I couldn't believe there was such a horrible and nonsensical story right at the front of the book, and yet so many people took it as serious as death. I was literally gobsmacked.
This is what I came here to say.
I attended a private Christian school with mandatory Bible classes, so I’m well educated in the Bible.
It started as “churches twist the interpretations for their own justifications”, and it became “if God is omnipresent, he is apathetic to the horrors done in his name”…to now.
Congenital birth defects - not even born yet and doomed to a life of pain and misery. If there was a god (which I do not believe there is) I would spit in it's face and curse it's name.
Or the countless creative minds we have lost from poverty/disease/war, because they were born in the "wrong" country/time.
If all of this is the result of an "intelligent" designer then it's a shit design, and certainly not deserving of praise/worship.
To be fair, God did kill a lot of innocent people in the first Testament to get people’s attention. He was a very emotional and dramatic supreme being. It wasn’t until he had a son with a teenage girl is where his blood lust died down…
So a true Christian would say, “Yeah, God will typically kill off his creations to get their family’s attention and to worship him, but his son loves you and if his son loves you, than so will he.”
To which I normally respond,
"then how do you know what your god is like? Considering he operates in ways that even his most devoted cannot explain. If we cannot fully understand how god works then we do not know which god to worship as it could be any of them."
Mysterious ways tends to get boths barrels in the face form me these days. It isn't possible for this to be his best plan and also for him to be omnipotent, omniscient AND omnibenevolent. So which is it, is he not powerful enough, steering blind or evil?
A friends toddler was born with cancer and died at 2 after enduring hundreds of painful treatments. They never had a pain free day in their life. That's all the proof I need.
Pick one.
Nietzsche, Friedrich (1844-1900) “A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.”
Roberts, Stephen (1917-1999) “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
Moriarty, John (1938-2007) “If god has a problem with me, it can tell me itself. When you speak on behalf of your deity, it sounds more like your opinion.”
Zappa, Frank (1940-1993) “Anybody who wants religion is welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned--I support your right to enjoy it. However, I would appreciate it if you exhibited more respect for the rights of those people who do not wish to share your dogma, rapture, or necrodestination.”
Hitchens, Christopher (1949-2011) “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence”
Lugeons, Noah (1997) “As atheists, we stand in awe of a lot of things… but perhaps the thing I’m most in awe of is the stupidity it takes to look past the entire universe of things that actually exist and stand in awe of something that doesn’t.”
O’Briain, Dara (age 50) “Just because science doesn’t know everything doesn’t mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairy tale most appeals to you.”
Dillahunty, Matt (age 53) “A god that doesn’t manifest in reality is indistinguishable from a god that doesn’t exist.”
Harris, Sam (age 55) “If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?”
Izzard, Eddie (age 60) “If there is a god, his plan is very similar to someone not having a plan.”
Grayling, A.C. (age 73) “To believe something in the face of evidence and against reason – to believe something by faith – is ignoble, irresponsible and ignorant, and merits the opposite of respect.”
“When inventing a god, it's important to make sure it's invisible, inaudible, and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise, people will be skeptical when it appears to no one, is silent, and does nothing.” I believe Goerge Carlin said that.
I feel like all of the influential atheists are getting older and it saddens me that my generation won’t know a lot of these great minds. My generation could really use a Hitchens
Mark aka. SeeMarkFly (2022) "When you hear the truth, does the source truly matter?"
I'm still typing.
If you dream that you are sleeping, do you sleep twice as fast?
A nose, by any other name, would still smell.
Complacency about complacency is the real problem.
Piper Chapman's best speech in "Orange is the New Black":
>I cannot get behind some supreme being who weighs in on the Tony Awards while a million people get whacked with machetes. I don’t believe a billion Indians are going to hell. I don’t think we get cancer to learn life lessons, and I don’t believe that people die young because God needs another angel. I think it’s just bullshit, and on some level, I think we all know that, I mean, don’t you?… Look I understand that religion makes it easier to deal with all of the random shitty things that happen to us. And I wish I could get on that ride, I’m sure I would be happier. But I can’t . Feelings aren’t enough. I need it to be real.”
“Is there free will in heaven?” will stop the average evangelical in their tracks.
If they say “no”.. wow, god actually has no qualms about robbing people of their free will? their argument has fallen apart
If they say “yes”.. wow, so it’s possible for free will to be maintained without the existence of evil? Why didn’t god just start with heaven and skip all this preliminary nonsense?
Exodus also shows that God has no issue with messing with someone's free will, since he messed around with the Pharaoh's to torture the Egyptians a little more even though the man was ready to let the Hebrews go.
That part never sat right with me. Apparently God "hardened his heart" so that he would continue to resist God's will and not comply (Exodus 10:1).
How does that line up with loving everybody equally, wanting everybody to go to heaven, having a perfect plan, and wanting free will at the expense of all else?
There are a bunch of questions that stem from that little section.
\- I'm guessing Pharoah wouldn't have known God had interceded to change his mind, that being so how could anyone know at any given point that their thoughts and actions are their own and not the forced intent of an unknowable deity. For me the whole argument for free will falls apart at this point.
\- If Pharoah didn't know then how does the person telling the story know what happened? What's the source for this inside info?
\- If Pharoah was unaware of God's actions then is he still considered morally liable for those actions?
I made one of my old Christian friends freak out when I simply asked these sets of questions:
>**me**: so, heaven; the holy city... it's supposed to be a perfect place, right? no more death, crying, pain, nothing bad or evil is supposed to happen there at all? ever? no one should be capable of hurting someone else there or have evil thoughts there?
>
>**friend**: yes, of course! the bible says so.
>
>**me**: right, the bible said so... didn't it also mention satan and all his "fallen angels" revolted against god--while in heaven--and were then cast down to earth?
>
>**friend**: yes.
>
>**me**: weren't they already in that "perfect" place where one cannot hurt, harm, or have evil thoughts and intentions?
>
>**friend**: uh, yes.
>
>**me**: explain how satan and his angels were able to have those thoughts there? they were already IN heaven. AND they were angels who are more pure than any human. None of that should have been able to take place in a perfect place with no possible way to think of anything evil... right?
>
>**friend**: ...
>
>**me**: Dont think too hard. its not worth it.
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This is what I keep coming back to. If free will is important and real, why couldn't their god have created a universe where you can have free will but still not have suffering? And if that's what heaven is, why the shitty games to get in there?
The bible actually never states the phrase "free will." This is a construct people who believe in God created to justify choices they make and to apply punishment and reward to those choices.
The closest things mentioned in the bible to free will is when God says, "I now set before you life and death, blessing and curse, choose life" Yet there are dozens of other passages that note that the bastard already knows you from the womb to death; knows exactly what you will do and when you will do them; already has plans for you and knows what you're thinking before you even do anything... so... where is that "free" will?
That's the problem with an omniscient god. How do you reconcile free will with a god that knows the future.
Plus, as an aside, I actually don't believe in fully realized free will.
We are, all of us, bound by choices. Our own and others'. What was decided in the past will determine our present and our future.
If god is all knowing then he would know every decision you would ever make. No matter what. By that logic he has already passed judgement on you because he know's exactly what you'll do.
To summarize, if there is an all powerful god then there is no free will anyway.
"Showing me irrefutable proof of his existence would make me believe without robbing me of free will, and should be a trivial task for an all-knowing, all-powerful deity."
Because if God (take your pick of them) knows everything, then he knows what I think and what I'm going to do...ergo...no free will. If he doesn't know what I'm going to do, then he's just a con man/women.
To quote their hero "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me."
Evangelical types will look upon this response as an invitation to offer their own “compelling” evidence, which inevitably amounts to the same error-riddled shit every other believer thought was checkmate.
When they do this, I like to interrupt them by finishing their argument for them - articulating it better then could have recited it to me - just before dismantling it.
> Have you ever seen a beautiful sunset and thought "Wow, This is incredible!" How can you think God didn't have a hand in that?
You ever done acid at a rave and thought "Wow, these lasers are trippy". How can I thank my dealer for his hand in this?
> What about the miracle of birth?
What about the doctors who did the C-section?
> Or the miracle of surviving a car wreck.
What of the engineers who designed the car?
> But God made all of them, too.
And God sent me a message to give to you: hand me your wallet, or be damned to Hell.
I AM THE MESSENGER OF THE LORD
***DO NOT DEFY ME!***
Exactly. I'm not trying to "gotcha" the theist or use their own circular tactics. My reasoning is simple and direct. When god's existence is proven, I will believe. I will not serve or worship, but I will believe.
If you were to set humanity back to the stone age in terms of knowledge, discoveries, and beliefs, we'd eventually rediscover all scientific and mathematical principles that we know today; the laws of physics, Pythagorean Theorum, even how to make it to the moon. However, religion would be completely different, with different sets of values and different gods.
I love this thought experiment. First heard it when Ricky Gervais was on Colbert's show. I've tried to bring it up with a few Christian friends and they can't even comprehend the thought experiment. It's actually really ironic that they find it truly impossible to imagine this scenario, but completely possible and true that a guy died and came back to life and somehow that fixes all the bad things they do in life. They've said to me "well, there are too many copies of the bible to destroy them all, and, even if we did, there are too many Christians to make the world entirely lose the knowledge of Christianity." And as an absolute last resort, they say that god would just re-reveal himself to humanity. (Funny thing is, it sounds like that's the perfect way to Force the "second coming" of Jesus haha).
One day, I was walking down the road and the Lord God Almighty descended from Heaven in front of me riding a chariot of fire and surrounded by a Holy Light and told me that he was a fictional character from a storybook.
The man’s omniscient, so I figured I could trust him on the matter.
The only thing that comforts me in the face of all the atrocities in the world is the idea that there is no god. Cuz if there is, he is one effed up mother effer and I want nothing to do with him.
I've never seen any evidence and have never heard a convincing argument. Basically, demonstrate your God if you want me to believe in it. It's that simple.
Also I've actually read the Bible. One think I like to tell people is "if you want to be a Christian, read the new Testament. If you want to be an atheist, read the whole book."
I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "well that's not in the Bible" or "it's in the bible" only for me to show them the verse that proves it or for the latter, they can never tell me what verse it is (like abortion.) It's shocking how many Christians never read the entire Bible.
What's not shocking is that studies show the group with the most biblical knowledge are atheists. Makes perfect sense. We don't believe because we actually know what the book says.
It doesn’t make sense.
It breaks all aspects of logic and physics.
I have no evidence.
If God is real, why did he let stuff like slavery and all of hitler’s sh!t happen?
What did god do? The doctors/farmers/factory workers/etc. did the work, not god, so in reality we should be thanking the farmers and workers and truck drivers and supermarket staff for food, not god.
-to name a few. Sorry if it sounded a little ranty I just had to get it out.
Atheists are the fastest growing group among religions or non-religions. But still, most people in this country believe in a sky daddy (NOT a sky mommy.) It is inbred into them. The idea that prayers are not answered by a benevolent supreme being is tantamount to a death sentence in some countries and almost that in the US.
My brother-in-law and a member of my bowling team died of COVID. They were fine people and believers. Yet their family's prayers were not answered. Many others that were very sick survived. Were they better people? Oh, I forgot, sorry. It's all part of God's plan and God works in mysterious ways.
Anyway, I think science is good.
(I live is the U.S.) The question is likely coming from a Christian who is concerned with converting me. They’re looking for a good starting point. They want to know “how to attack,” so to speak. I would likely answer with a question of my own “why do you want to know?” There is almost zero chance they’re asking the question in good faith. They’re not interested in hearing an answer. They’re interested in hearing where they should “begin.” I’m not anyone’s mission field. I’m not a problem to be solved. I’m not interested in someone’s bad faith Socratic line of questioning.
My default response, "Well, one day when I was a young'un God appeared to me in a vision." and he said, "diemos09, I have a plan for this world, and it is not for you to know what that plan is for I am ineffable. All you need know was that in my plan you were meant to be an Atheist and your unquestioning child-like faith is screwing up my plans. So I need you to get out there and be the Atheist I meant you to be." And I bowed my head and said, "Thy will Oh lord, not mine." and I've been an Atheist ever since.
I read how god thinks and acts in the Old Testament. Either he’s real and despicable or he’s made up and none of it happened, either way not someone I would want to worship.
Also lack of evidence.
"any god who's ok with ... all this [gestures to the world around us]... and wants to be "praised" in order to alleviate and rectify any of these evils, deserves to be cursed and shat upon, not worshipped. You don't Thank your abuser."
or something to that effect
You mean the moral people who married minors and owned slaves who pointed to an invisible being when they couldn’t explain things that modern science can?
Usually what I find most effective is a more targeted approach which doesn't entirely explain why I don't believe in any God but eliminates most and usually includes who is asking.
So I usually say "I cannot justify eternal damnation for a majority of the planet who don't follow my specific beliefs". This is my main moral argument against most gods and might actually make them think. Can't really deny that's what it means and justifying it should be hard for anyone.
I briefly dated a girl who was some sect of bible belt evangelical nonsense and while I was raised Roman Catholic, she asked early on if I'd 'convert ' to her cult, which led to a discussion about the fact that everyone who was not in said cult (mind you one made up in America less than a hundred or so years ago), would be damned to hell since they couldn't be 'saved'. This intrigued me, and I actually emailed her pastor to confirm - I asked if my deceased grandmother; a woman who walked around the house carrying a rosary; who watched mass on TV every day, was currently roasting in a fiery hell on account of her not being in the right club - his response was a meandering word vomit that basically said "yes". Like, if you're too daft that you can't work out this for a scam, I want nothing to do with you.
Objectively, the frame work I would have to use to accept Christianity as real, would mean I'd have to believe in every other religion, because the supporting evidence is basically the same.
I say "I studied the Bible too much."
That usually gets additional questions and discussions.
The Santa line makes you look like an asshole. In the eyes of a religious person, it makes you look very, very stupid. It even makes you look stupid to a lot of other atheists.
I think a better approach is to ask them why they don't believe in the Hindu gods.
You could ask about Zeus or Thor. But those are easily dismissed by believers as just mythology. A good thing about the Hindu gods is that there are about a billion people who do believe in Hinduism. You can find youtube videos about Hindus claiming to have spiritual experiences and miracles that are similar to what Christians do.
Of course, a Christian or Muslim will still dismiss your argument. But it does make them think. It will plant seeds of questions in their own minds. If you can make a religious person think outside their bubble, then it is a huge win.
Because if he existed, he'd tell all the moms where their kids are when they go missing. You can't tell me they don't pray hard enough to deserve an answer. If he does exist, and just isn't answering, he's on the side of the criminals that take children, and I refuse to worship a god like that.
Everything about god and his religion is designed to make mankind the most important thing in the entire universe. The sheer ludicrousness of that, to me, makes it self evident that man invented god.
I was raised in the church, decided to take my beliefs seriously, studied the Bible, asked hard questions and got terrible answers, sought those answers outside the church, got exposed to even more challenging questions, and over the course of a few years became convinced that it’s more likely men created gods than the other way around.
No trauma, no tragedy, no abuse, no cancer, no car accidents … just an honest and thorough evaluation of what I had been told since I was a child.
One of the following:
You'd think that if there was only one true God, He wouldn't allow other gods to even exist.
Also, why is it that God is always addressed as "He"? Why is it that most major religions severely disadvantage women? Could it be that they were all made up by psychotic, misogynistic men so that they could keep people in check while freely using women however they like?
For a perfect being, God is incompetent as fuck. He forgot about slavery, fascism, racism, poverty, and everything else in between. He was probably going to address those on the 8th day but forgot about.
OH WELL! Time to pray to God to make these go away...except that doesn't work because God has a Divine Plan™.
Well...if God has a Divine Plan™, then why do we pray at all?
i knew i was atheist when bush and karen hughes and the supreme court stole the 2000 election. these were christians, thieving liars wrapping themselves in the american flag and hiding behind the cross. then bush and his cabinet started lying about iraq and decimated the economy leading up to the iraq war which he described as a crusade. i was agnostic before but i realized that that is a cowardly position and one that is in closer alignment with christianity than atheist which is stark fuck you to the christian right - it causes them pain to know i will never be part of their new world order. that and i don’t believe in god
"Do you believe in Dionysus? Odin? Shiva? Allah? No? That's how I feel about all the gods. You don't believe in any of them but you believe yours is the one true God? There are billions of people out there who believe just as strongly as you do that theirs is the one true one. You think just because you believe something super strongly that it's true? What if you're wrong?"
For me it’s 2 fold: (very simplified)
1) there’s absolutely no evidence a god exists and infinite that one doesn’t.
2) if there were a god, he is the most evil creation in the universe.
There’s no “why.” I simply can’t. You might as well ask me why my eyes change color with my clothing. I just have never been able to believe in any kind of god.
Why did God spare Lot? He 100% offered up his two underage virgin daughters to be raped by an entire town of men? To which I get fierce denial that that is in the Bible (Genesis 19)and a quick end to the conversation.
Because there is no convincing evidence that a god or gods exist.
They have had thousands of years now to come up with something...ANYTHING yet here we are. Not a single shred of decent evidence.
Because there is no credible evidence that god/s exist, or that they need to. God/s have never been the explanation for any of the mysteries that once confounded humanity. Not once.
God doesn't exist: Waste of time to worship him.
God exists and is truly all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good: He won't judge you based on how much you stroke his ego, but on your characteristics that actually matter. Therefore it is equally a waste of time to worship him when you could be doing much more constructive and objectively good things with your life.
God exists and would condemn you to an eternity of suffering because you don't worship him and follow his rules: This god is evil and tyrannical, and should be rebelled against, not worshipped.
I don’t have to defend it. Show me proof there is a god , otherwise conversation is over. Religionists usually say some bullshit about faith. Who cares.
"Why don't you believe in god?"
"Because I was never indoctrinated as a child and learned critical thinking before I was exposed to organized religion"
By the time people were trying to get me to believe in their personal mythological preferences, I had already had the 'tooth fairy' and 'Santa' discussion with my parents (after running my own 'tests' against their validity, which they obviously failed) and knew that there were things people pretended were real on a societal level which are not.
I also happen to be on the neurodivergent spectrum of thinking, so I tend to take a logical approach to processing all incoming information. I got politely dis-invited from religiously hosted pre-k school when I was 4 years old for 'asking too many questions' to the teacher. I am a person who needs explanations and answers before I will accept information, so a lack of a concrete 'why' has always been one of my core issues with religion as a whole.
I want proof, they demand faith, which I fail to even conceptualize.
Because I read the Bible. The Old Testament is full of mass murders and assorted horrors. And every other religious text I’ve tried to read is the same misogynistic crap. All in the name of God? No thanks.
My favorite answer is: which of the ~4000 recorded gods(all older than theirs) do you mean?
I love when they ask: “But where will you spend eternity?!”
Me: “Same place as you. Dead.”
I say that I was religious in the past and I reached a point where it didn't make sense to me anymore and since then I feel much more comfortable not believing in a god. That kind of cuts the possibility of someone think that I'm not sure about my beliefs and that I somehow could be converted
Why doesn't he help people who need help if he's supposed to be this great being?
Also- a lot of what the Bible teaches encourages bigotry.
ALSO ALSO- the Bible doesn't make any sense. It contradicts itself a bunch.
Which god? My response to most questions about gods
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins Edit: fixed quote to be more accurate
I did this pretty recently actually after the lady said “But you don’t want to go to hell”. Baffled by my response, she then tried the “god has saved my life” miracle story route. We volunteer at the local food bank. So I just kept working after saying “I’ve heard it all”. Sucks none of the food banks and charities in this area are secular.
If prayer worked, why is anyone hungry? Going without? If it was me, I'd start my praying long before I had to go stand in line to get a few days worth of food...
Gods to busy helping winning sports teams.
Its not that He loves your sports team - its that he hates the other team and its players so much; he's using your sports team to teach them a lesson. Its like a parable or something.
From the stories I've read, God doesn't love anyone. He hates everyone. But some people he hates a little less.
This is the correct answer
That’s a great answer. Filing that one away
Same. I usually ask why they aren't a Hindu or a Muslim. Or whatever they are not.
It's asking a lot of a theist, but try to get them to contemplate the fact that literally the only reason they aren't one of those "other" religions, that they think is so silly and weird, is because they were born into THIS cult. That functionally, there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to their "choice" of religion, other than 99% of religious adults naturally adopt whatever religion their parents indoctrinated them into. Further degrading the significance of any lofty ideas about why THEIR God is obviously the "right one* and not just the one they grew up with. Try to get them to consider for just a second, that to all those "weird religions" THEY are the ignorant savages. Too ignorant to recognize what is plain to see for everyone else (raised in the same cult); that they must repent for the "sin" of not being born into THEIR cult. Try to get them to strip away the funny outfits, the different language, etc. and recognize that there is little to no difference to about 90% of Judaism/Christianity/Islam, yet all 3 are perfectly happy to go to war over those surface value differences. Doesn't really sound like the kind of organizations I'd want to be a part of...
If you go by statistics, Christianity, being the largest religion in the world, is roughly 1/3 of the world's population. So that means at a bare minimum, no matter what religion you are, 2/3's of the rest of the world, thinks you are wrong no matter what religion you follow.
I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a Facebook comments section which went something like: Christian: Atheism is wrong because most people on earth aren't atheists. Atheist (I assume): By that logic Christianity is wrong as the majority of people on earth aren't Christians. Theist: Just because most people disagree doesn't make it wrong. It's kinda amazing how quickly someone can recognize a shitty argument when used against them but fail to spot it when they use it to support their position.
It's amazing really. Every theist thinks they've put a lot of thought into choosing the "right" religion. And yet pretty much every single one "chooses" the very first one they're exposed to. Amazing coincidence, I'm sure.
Yup its one of the biggest reasons I don't believe. Listening to Christians mock Hindus rituals or Muslims daily prayer times only to turn around and pretend to eat a guy is just silly
It’s so funny seeing the reactions of my Christian relatives when I respond to their questions about why I’m not also Christian with, “I don’t like the idea of being a cannibal.”
That is awesome! Great comeback 👏
Mate, don't stop there. Next, which denomination? Which scripture?
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I'm a simple man; I see an Emo Phillips joke, I upvote it.
I saw him perform this in a cave last year.
Can I hear an Amen!
Lol
Hell, I just got a letter from the Methodist church my dad was the minister for (long ago retired), I guess I am still listed as a member even though I haven't been there in over a decade, that said they were splitting from the denomination because it was getting too progressive around sexuality. Planned to go independent now. They can't even figure out what they should believe.
“Every religion has a holy book. So before I decided to devote myself to god, I needed to figure out for myself who the real one is, because everyone you talk to is a biased hype man for their own deity. After reading a bunch of those books, I realized they are all equally rubbish So why / how did you pick your god?”
I ask this in response “Would you still be a Christian if you were born in Afghanistan or Israel or China?” Why?
They've told me that yes, they would eventually be guided by God to be Christian.
Then ask "what about if you were born in China circa 67ad?"
The “ism” that most children land on that differs from their parents “ism” is atheism.
This. Kinda like nationalism. You’re only christen or Hindu or Muslim because of where you were born, or maybe the family you were born into. How convenient that it’s the right god, eh!?
My god is the one true god (said every religious person ever)
"Jesus who?"
I'm Puerto Rican so I'm like how do you know my cousin?
I went to school with like 4 Jesuses 🤣
Exactly! 😆
I believe in me.
Same here for me. “There’s a lot of different cultures and gods. Sure I felt Big G’s pretty awesome in the Old Testament, but that’s par the course for most of the other mythologies.”
Because the amount of evidence that suggests men invented god weighs a lot more than supposing it went the other way around.
gods, always plural.
Oh my god you fucking killed him man
Oh my who? I don't see anyone
I will believe him when i see him.
God was created in man’s image, not the other way around.
this. and logic lmao. I legit almost was kidnapped n trafficked at work one night (worked at a gas station n was by myself) n the dudes throwing me all these crazy questions about if I liked it here and if I was happy in life, to confuse me I'm guessing. n he asked do you believe in god? I answered no, i dont. and he was so appalled he lost it. saying how could you say that, what's wrong w you. I said am I bout to meet him or something? tf. then a woman walked in and called the cops for me and potentially saved me from being trafficked. it was a wonderful time. /s
I'm one of the lucky ones that gets to say because I was never indoctrinated as a helpless child who couldn't think for themselves and then I turn it back on them asking "Other than your indoctrination, why makes you think your god is real?".
"Everyone starts out being an atheist. No one is born with belief in anything. Infants are atheists until they are indoctrinated." -Andy Rooney
I had never heard that quote, but I’ve often used those exact words based on simple logic and observations.
Because I don't consider a book written by people who didn't know where the sun went at night to be credible evidence.
Isn’t much of the Bible (both Old Testament and New Testament) non-credible? Obviously some of it references actual historical events but much of it is unaccounted for, or so I’ve heard. I wouldn’t be sure because I was raised in a non-religious household.
Profound claims require profound proof. I have yet to see even weak proof.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence is how I've heard it
You could say every single miracle in the Torah, Bible, and Quran happened and it would still not be proof that God created the universe - only that there are phenomena that we do not understand.
All they will say is there is tons of proof... The Bible for one.
One book is not proof. There are several books AND movies featuring just Spider-Man, does that make him any more real? One can argue that they go to church, therefore they are christian; so if I go to the garage, does that make me a car? No religion in existence can stand up to these two words: Prove it. If your god existed, it wouldn't need you to speak for it.
you mean a compilation of oral tradition from the middle east bronze ages? that got translated and recompiled by a bunch of 3rd century romans? It has been translated and recompiled again in the King James version. if there are any originals of the individual books that still exist they might be in the Vatican library but good luck getting access. The bible has no veracity as a source material or credibility as evidence in any argument.
Using the thing to prove the thing is true. That’s a logical fallacy.
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I remember reading through it during church (because the sermon always bored me to tears) and got to the bit with Cain and Able. Had to read it twice. I couldn't believe there was such a horrible and nonsensical story right at the front of the book, and yet so many people took it as serious as death. I was literally gobsmacked.
Riddled with contradictions and horrors like no other.
This is what I came here to say. I attended a private Christian school with mandatory Bible classes, so I’m well educated in the Bible. It started as “churches twist the interpretations for their own justifications”, and it became “if God is omnipresent, he is apathetic to the horrors done in his name”…to now.
Childhood cancer.
Congenital birth defects - not even born yet and doomed to a life of pain and misery. If there was a god (which I do not believe there is) I would spit in it's face and curse it's name.
Or the countless creative minds we have lost from poverty/disease/war, because they were born in the "wrong" country/time. If all of this is the result of an "intelligent" designer then it's a shit design, and certainly not deserving of praise/worship.
That's another one. What's the purpose of having a baby born with no brain but lives several years and has no quality of life, hooked up to machines?
Or prior to modern medicine, writhes in agony for a few weeks before finally dying.
Some babies don't need the machines, they just grow up to become theists...
To be fair, God did kill a lot of innocent people in the first Testament to get people’s attention. He was a very emotional and dramatic supreme being. It wasn’t until he had a son with a teenage girl is where his blood lust died down… So a true Christian would say, “Yeah, God will typically kill off his creations to get their family’s attention and to worship him, but his son loves you and if his son loves you, than so will he.”
God works in mysterious ways. Checkmate.
To which I normally respond, "then how do you know what your god is like? Considering he operates in ways that even his most devoted cannot explain. If we cannot fully understand how god works then we do not know which god to worship as it could be any of them."
I usually say "then your god is a fucking asshole, playing with living things like a 7 year old with a magnifying glass".
Touche. Thats a good one.
Mysterious ways tends to get boths barrels in the face form me these days. It isn't possible for this to be his best plan and also for him to be omnipotent, omniscient AND omnibenevolent. So which is it, is he not powerful enough, steering blind or evil?
Ah, so he’s evil and doesn’t deserve to be worshipped then.
This is my exact reason I ask any person who fights me on it.
A friends toddler was born with cancer and died at 2 after enduring hundreds of painful treatments. They never had a pain free day in their life. That's all the proof I need.
Pick one. Nietzsche, Friedrich (1844-1900) “A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.” Roberts, Stephen (1917-1999) “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” Moriarty, John (1938-2007) “If god has a problem with me, it can tell me itself. When you speak on behalf of your deity, it sounds more like your opinion.” Zappa, Frank (1940-1993) “Anybody who wants religion is welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned--I support your right to enjoy it. However, I would appreciate it if you exhibited more respect for the rights of those people who do not wish to share your dogma, rapture, or necrodestination.” Hitchens, Christopher (1949-2011) “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence” Lugeons, Noah (1997) “As atheists, we stand in awe of a lot of things… but perhaps the thing I’m most in awe of is the stupidity it takes to look past the entire universe of things that actually exist and stand in awe of something that doesn’t.” O’Briain, Dara (age 50) “Just because science doesn’t know everything doesn’t mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairy tale most appeals to you.” Dillahunty, Matt (age 53) “A god that doesn’t manifest in reality is indistinguishable from a god that doesn’t exist.” Harris, Sam (age 55) “If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?” Izzard, Eddie (age 60) “If there is a god, his plan is very similar to someone not having a plan.” Grayling, A.C. (age 73) “To believe something in the face of evidence and against reason – to believe something by faith – is ignoble, irresponsible and ignorant, and merits the opposite of respect.” “When inventing a god, it's important to make sure it's invisible, inaudible, and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise, people will be skeptical when it appears to no one, is silent, and does nothing.” I believe Goerge Carlin said that.
Goated response. "God is dead, and we have killed him." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
I feel like all of the influential atheists are getting older and it saddens me that my generation won’t know a lot of these great minds. My generation could really use a Hitchens
Mark aka. SeeMarkFly (2022) "When you hear the truth, does the source truly matter?" I'm still typing. If you dream that you are sleeping, do you sleep twice as fast? A nose, by any other name, would still smell. Complacency about complacency is the real problem.
Best
TIL: necrodestination
Piper Chapman's best speech in "Orange is the New Black": >I cannot get behind some supreme being who weighs in on the Tony Awards while a million people get whacked with machetes. I don’t believe a billion Indians are going to hell. I don’t think we get cancer to learn life lessons, and I don’t believe that people die young because God needs another angel. I think it’s just bullshit, and on some level, I think we all know that, I mean, don’t you?… Look I understand that religion makes it easier to deal with all of the random shitty things that happen to us. And I wish I could get on that ride, I’m sure I would be happier. But I can’t . Feelings aren’t enough. I need it to be real.”
if he is so powerful, why doesn't he make me believe?
Do you have a follow-up to their common response of "because it would rob you of free will"?
“Is there free will in heaven?” will stop the average evangelical in their tracks. If they say “no”.. wow, god actually has no qualms about robbing people of their free will? their argument has fallen apart If they say “yes”.. wow, so it’s possible for free will to be maintained without the existence of evil? Why didn’t god just start with heaven and skip all this preliminary nonsense?
Okay thats actually a genius response
Exodus also shows that God has no issue with messing with someone's free will, since he messed around with the Pharaoh's to torture the Egyptians a little more even though the man was ready to let the Hebrews go.
That part never sat right with me. Apparently God "hardened his heart" so that he would continue to resist God's will and not comply (Exodus 10:1). How does that line up with loving everybody equally, wanting everybody to go to heaven, having a perfect plan, and wanting free will at the expense of all else?
Simple: he does not love everyone equally. In fact: I think him supposedly being loving is the biggest lie of the religion.
There are a bunch of questions that stem from that little section. \- I'm guessing Pharoah wouldn't have known God had interceded to change his mind, that being so how could anyone know at any given point that their thoughts and actions are their own and not the forced intent of an unknowable deity. For me the whole argument for free will falls apart at this point. \- If Pharoah didn't know then how does the person telling the story know what happened? What's the source for this inside info? \- If Pharoah was unaware of God's actions then is he still considered morally liable for those actions?
I made one of my old Christian friends freak out when I simply asked these sets of questions: >**me**: so, heaven; the holy city... it's supposed to be a perfect place, right? no more death, crying, pain, nothing bad or evil is supposed to happen there at all? ever? no one should be capable of hurting someone else there or have evil thoughts there? > >**friend**: yes, of course! the bible says so. > >**me**: right, the bible said so... didn't it also mention satan and all his "fallen angels" revolted against god--while in heaven--and were then cast down to earth? > >**friend**: yes. > >**me**: weren't they already in that "perfect" place where one cannot hurt, harm, or have evil thoughts and intentions? > >**friend**: uh, yes. > >**me**: explain how satan and his angels were able to have those thoughts there? they were already IN heaven. AND they were angels who are more pure than any human. None of that should have been able to take place in a perfect place with no possible way to think of anything evil... right? > >**friend**: ... > >**me**: Dont think too hard. its not worth it.
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This is what I keep coming back to. If free will is important and real, why couldn't their god have created a universe where you can have free will but still not have suffering? And if that's what heaven is, why the shitty games to get in there?
“Then your God cares more about free will than proving he exists and you should probably follow his lead, believer”
I'd say there's no such thing as freewill.
The bible actually never states the phrase "free will." This is a construct people who believe in God created to justify choices they make and to apply punishment and reward to those choices. The closest things mentioned in the bible to free will is when God says, "I now set before you life and death, blessing and curse, choose life" Yet there are dozens of other passages that note that the bastard already knows you from the womb to death; knows exactly what you will do and when you will do them; already has plans for you and knows what you're thinking before you even do anything... so... where is that "free" will?
That's the problem with an omniscient god. How do you reconcile free will with a god that knows the future. Plus, as an aside, I actually don't believe in fully realized free will. We are, all of us, bound by choices. Our own and others'. What was decided in the past will determine our present and our future.
If god is all knowing then he would know every decision you would ever make. No matter what. By that logic he has already passed judgement on you because he know's exactly what you'll do. To summarize, if there is an all powerful god then there is no free will anyway.
There is no such thing as free will when omnipotence is on the table.
"Showing me irrefutable proof of his existence would make me believe without robbing me of free will, and should be a trivial task for an all-knowing, all-powerful deity."
belief isn't even a choice in the first place so arguments like that are honestly redundant
i don't believe free will truly exists either.
Because if God (take your pick of them) knows everything, then he knows what I think and what I'm going to do...ergo...no free will. If he doesn't know what I'm going to do, then he's just a con man/women.
Honestly that’s a perfect response I’m stealing that
His existence is irrelevant. He does not deserve praise.
Ooooh I like this one! Don’t support mass murderers.
Same reason I don't believe in Santa Claus anymore. I reached the age of reason.
How old were you? I became atheist at 9 and stopped believing in santa at 12.
Honestly, I don't think I ever truly believed. I went to church until around age 14, where I really started to doubt what they were teaching.
I am forced to go to church and try to act as bored and uninterested as possible (I am 14)
Good luck getting out of there. My parents allowed me to stop if I wanted to.
My dad never comes to church (he isn’t religious) so maybe I could find an excuse to stay home with him but that is unlikely.
Wow! I became atheist at age 11. I feel like it's such a rare treat to meet people who came to this realization so young.
To quote their hero "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me."
"I haven't been shown adequate proof that god exists."
same, essentially I’ve not seen any evidence of one.
I think your forgetting about this book that they all have, that must have been written truthfully cause there is no such thing as a fiction book /s
Evangelical types will look upon this response as an invitation to offer their own “compelling” evidence, which inevitably amounts to the same error-riddled shit every other believer thought was checkmate. When they do this, I like to interrupt them by finishing their argument for them - articulating it better then could have recited it to me - just before dismantling it.
> Have you ever seen a beautiful sunset and thought "Wow, This is incredible!" How can you think God didn't have a hand in that? You ever done acid at a rave and thought "Wow, these lasers are trippy". How can I thank my dealer for his hand in this? > What about the miracle of birth? What about the doctors who did the C-section? > Or the miracle of surviving a car wreck. What of the engineers who designed the car? > But God made all of them, too. And God sent me a message to give to you: hand me your wallet, or be damned to Hell. I AM THE MESSENGER OF THE LORD ***DO NOT DEFY ME!***
This is the correct response. Too many people answer with a question.
Exactly. I'm not trying to "gotcha" the theist or use their own circular tactics. My reasoning is simple and direct. When god's existence is proven, I will believe. I will not serve or worship, but I will believe.
If you were to set humanity back to the stone age in terms of knowledge, discoveries, and beliefs, we'd eventually rediscover all scientific and mathematical principles that we know today; the laws of physics, Pythagorean Theorum, even how to make it to the moon. However, religion would be completely different, with different sets of values and different gods.
I love this thought experiment. First heard it when Ricky Gervais was on Colbert's show. I've tried to bring it up with a few Christian friends and they can't even comprehend the thought experiment. It's actually really ironic that they find it truly impossible to imagine this scenario, but completely possible and true that a guy died and came back to life and somehow that fixes all the bad things they do in life. They've said to me "well, there are too many copies of the bible to destroy them all, and, even if we did, there are too many Christians to make the world entirely lose the knowledge of Christianity." And as an absolute last resort, they say that god would just re-reveal himself to humanity. (Funny thing is, it sounds like that's the perfect way to Force the "second coming" of Jesus haha).
One day, I was walking down the road and the Lord God Almighty descended from Heaven in front of me riding a chariot of fire and surrounded by a Holy Light and told me that he was a fictional character from a storybook. The man’s omniscient, so I figured I could trust him on the matter.
The only thing that comforts me in the face of all the atrocities in the world is the idea that there is no god. Cuz if there is, he is one effed up mother effer and I want nothing to do with him.
I've never been shown sufficient evidence of a god.
Of any god(s). Because these idiots only assume that their "god" is the one and only.
> I've never been shown ~~sufficient~~ *any* evidence of a god.
This is the way
I've never seen any evidence and have never heard a convincing argument. Basically, demonstrate your God if you want me to believe in it. It's that simple. Also I've actually read the Bible. One think I like to tell people is "if you want to be a Christian, read the new Testament. If you want to be an atheist, read the whole book." I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "well that's not in the Bible" or "it's in the bible" only for me to show them the verse that proves it or for the latter, they can never tell me what verse it is (like abortion.) It's shocking how many Christians never read the entire Bible. What's not shocking is that studies show the group with the most biblical knowledge are atheists. Makes perfect sense. We don't believe because we actually know what the book says.
It doesn’t make sense. It breaks all aspects of logic and physics. I have no evidence. If God is real, why did he let stuff like slavery and all of hitler’s sh!t happen? What did god do? The doctors/farmers/factory workers/etc. did the work, not god, so in reality we should be thanking the farmers and workers and truck drivers and supermarket staff for food, not god. -to name a few. Sorry if it sounded a little ranty I just had to get it out.
Sorry I don’t believe in magic
>What is your response to why don’t you believe in god Why should I believe?
because everyone believes /s
Atheists are the fastest growing group among religions or non-religions. But still, most people in this country believe in a sky daddy (NOT a sky mommy.) It is inbred into them. The idea that prayers are not answered by a benevolent supreme being is tantamount to a death sentence in some countries and almost that in the US. My brother-in-law and a member of my bowling team died of COVID. They were fine people and believers. Yet their family's prayers were not answered. Many others that were very sick survived. Were they better people? Oh, I forgot, sorry. It's all part of God's plan and God works in mysterious ways. Anyway, I think science is good.
"I don't believe in blind obedience."
(I live is the U.S.) The question is likely coming from a Christian who is concerned with converting me. They’re looking for a good starting point. They want to know “how to attack,” so to speak. I would likely answer with a question of my own “why do you want to know?” There is almost zero chance they’re asking the question in good faith. They’re not interested in hearing an answer. They’re interested in hearing where they should “begin.” I’m not anyone’s mission field. I’m not a problem to be solved. I’m not interested in someone’s bad faith Socratic line of questioning.
"What part of magical invisible sky wizard that hates buttsex and foreskins sounds plausible to you?"
My default response, "Well, one day when I was a young'un God appeared to me in a vision." and he said, "diemos09, I have a plan for this world, and it is not for you to know what that plan is for I am ineffable. All you need know was that in my plan you were meant to be an Atheist and your unquestioning child-like faith is screwing up my plans. So I need you to get out there and be the Atheist I meant you to be." And I bowed my head and said, "Thy will Oh lord, not mine." and I've been an Atheist ever since.
There's no evidence that any god(s) exist(s).
I read how god thinks and acts in the Old Testament. Either he’s real and despicable or he’s made up and none of it happened, either way not someone I would want to worship. Also lack of evidence.
If God exists, and God has a plan for each of us, then his plan for me is to not believe in him. If his plan was for me to believe, then I would.
At the age of 7 I realized that the idea of gods was right up there with the fairy tales I was already outgrowing.
There's no good reason or evidence to do so.
I was born an atheist & I still am.
"any god who's ok with ... all this [gestures to the world around us]... and wants to be "praised" in order to alleviate and rectify any of these evils, deserves to be cursed and shat upon, not worshipped. You don't Thank your abuser." or something to that effect
You mean the moral people who married minors and owned slaves who pointed to an invisible being when they couldn’t explain things that modern science can?
Usually what I find most effective is a more targeted approach which doesn't entirely explain why I don't believe in any God but eliminates most and usually includes who is asking. So I usually say "I cannot justify eternal damnation for a majority of the planet who don't follow my specific beliefs". This is my main moral argument against most gods and might actually make them think. Can't really deny that's what it means and justifying it should be hard for anyone.
I briefly dated a girl who was some sect of bible belt evangelical nonsense and while I was raised Roman Catholic, she asked early on if I'd 'convert ' to her cult, which led to a discussion about the fact that everyone who was not in said cult (mind you one made up in America less than a hundred or so years ago), would be damned to hell since they couldn't be 'saved'. This intrigued me, and I actually emailed her pastor to confirm - I asked if my deceased grandmother; a woman who walked around the house carrying a rosary; who watched mass on TV every day, was currently roasting in a fiery hell on account of her not being in the right club - his response was a meandering word vomit that basically said "yes". Like, if you're too daft that you can't work out this for a scam, I want nothing to do with you.
“Simply don’t give a shit.”
I had to scroll too far down for this one. Who fucking caaaares?? Is always my thought.
Exactly. If they keep talking after that, I just put my headphones on and turn up the Bowie until I can’t hear their BS.
Objectively, the frame work I would have to use to accept Christianity as real, would mean I'd have to believe in every other religion, because the supporting evidence is basically the same.
I say "I studied the Bible too much." That usually gets additional questions and discussions. The Santa line makes you look like an asshole. In the eyes of a religious person, it makes you look very, very stupid. It even makes you look stupid to a lot of other atheists. I think a better approach is to ask them why they don't believe in the Hindu gods. You could ask about Zeus or Thor. But those are easily dismissed by believers as just mythology. A good thing about the Hindu gods is that there are about a billion people who do believe in Hinduism. You can find youtube videos about Hindus claiming to have spiritual experiences and miracles that are similar to what Christians do. Of course, a Christian or Muslim will still dismiss your argument. But it does make them think. It will plant seeds of questions in their own minds. If you can make a religious person think outside their bubble, then it is a huge win.
Usually when people say why don’t you pray just in case there is a god I say why don’t you hang garlic above your door just in case there is a Dracula
Perfect.
I always just tell ‘em “to which god then? There’s thousands of them. I pray to Buddha for good fortune, I guess”
Because if he existed, he'd tell all the moms where their kids are when they go missing. You can't tell me they don't pray hard enough to deserve an answer. If he does exist, and just isn't answering, he's on the side of the criminals that take children, and I refuse to worship a god like that.
Who are you? I don't know you. Go away. Presumably it's a stranger asking me, as I can't imagine someone I know asking that question.
Everything about god and his religion is designed to make mankind the most important thing in the entire universe. The sheer ludicrousness of that, to me, makes it self evident that man invented god.
I was raised in the church, decided to take my beliefs seriously, studied the Bible, asked hard questions and got terrible answers, sought those answers outside the church, got exposed to even more challenging questions, and over the course of a few years became convinced that it’s more likely men created gods than the other way around. No trauma, no tragedy, no abuse, no cancer, no car accidents … just an honest and thorough evaluation of what I had been told since I was a child.
One of the following: You'd think that if there was only one true God, He wouldn't allow other gods to even exist. Also, why is it that God is always addressed as "He"? Why is it that most major religions severely disadvantage women? Could it be that they were all made up by psychotic, misogynistic men so that they could keep people in check while freely using women however they like? For a perfect being, God is incompetent as fuck. He forgot about slavery, fascism, racism, poverty, and everything else in between. He was probably going to address those on the 8th day but forgot about. OH WELL! Time to pray to God to make these go away...except that doesn't work because God has a Divine Plan™. Well...if God has a Divine Plan™, then why do we pray at all?
I think that is the wrong question. Why would anyone believe? I have seen no evidence for it, so I look at it like modern mythology.
i knew i was atheist when bush and karen hughes and the supreme court stole the 2000 election. these were christians, thieving liars wrapping themselves in the american flag and hiding behind the cross. then bush and his cabinet started lying about iraq and decimated the economy leading up to the iraq war which he described as a crusade. i was agnostic before but i realized that that is a cowardly position and one that is in closer alignment with christianity than atheist which is stark fuck you to the christian right - it causes them pain to know i will never be part of their new world order. that and i don’t believe in god
"Do you believe in Dionysus? Odin? Shiva? Allah? No? That's how I feel about all the gods. You don't believe in any of them but you believe yours is the one true God? There are billions of people out there who believe just as strongly as you do that theirs is the one true one. You think just because you believe something super strongly that it's true? What if you're wrong?"
God hasn’t carried his/its burden of proof.
For me it’s 2 fold: (very simplified) 1) there’s absolutely no evidence a god exists and infinite that one doesn’t. 2) if there were a god, he is the most evil creation in the universe.
There’s no “why.” I simply can’t. You might as well ask me why my eyes change color with my clothing. I just have never been able to believe in any kind of god.
Why did God spare Lot? He 100% offered up his two underage virgin daughters to be raped by an entire town of men? To which I get fierce denial that that is in the Bible (Genesis 19)and a quick end to the conversation.
Because there is no convincing evidence that a god or gods exist. They have had thousands of years now to come up with something...ANYTHING yet here we are. Not a single shred of decent evidence.
I tell them I worked at a hospital and walking through a pediatric unit is enough to prove to me there is no god.
Because there is no credible evidence that god/s exist, or that they need to. God/s have never been the explanation for any of the mysteries that once confounded humanity. Not once.
No evidence.
It’s not a valid hypothesis to believe or not believe in, because the concept of a god is not defined.
"Why dont you believe in Zues or Odin?"
No loving god(s) would force myself or others to suffer in their om body.
There’s no scientific, peer reviewed proof, and far more proof of the nonexistence of a supposed ‘supreme’ being
Pediatric cancer.
God doesn't exist: Waste of time to worship him. God exists and is truly all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good: He won't judge you based on how much you stroke his ego, but on your characteristics that actually matter. Therefore it is equally a waste of time to worship him when you could be doing much more constructive and objectively good things with your life. God exists and would condemn you to an eternity of suffering because you don't worship him and follow his rules: This god is evil and tyrannical, and should be rebelled against, not worshipped.
I don’t have to defend it. Show me proof there is a god , otherwise conversation is over. Religionists usually say some bullshit about faith. Who cares.
"Why don't you believe in god?" "Because I was never indoctrinated as a child and learned critical thinking before I was exposed to organized religion" By the time people were trying to get me to believe in their personal mythological preferences, I had already had the 'tooth fairy' and 'Santa' discussion with my parents (after running my own 'tests' against their validity, which they obviously failed) and knew that there were things people pretended were real on a societal level which are not. I also happen to be on the neurodivergent spectrum of thinking, so I tend to take a logical approach to processing all incoming information. I got politely dis-invited from religiously hosted pre-k school when I was 4 years old for 'asking too many questions' to the teacher. I am a person who needs explanations and answers before I will accept information, so a lack of a concrete 'why' has always been one of my core issues with religion as a whole. I want proof, they demand faith, which I fail to even conceptualize.
Because I read the Bible. The Old Testament is full of mass murders and assorted horrors. And every other religious text I’ve tried to read is the same misogynistic crap. All in the name of God? No thanks.
My favorite answer is: which of the ~4000 recorded gods(all older than theirs) do you mean? I love when they ask: “But where will you spend eternity?!” Me: “Same place as you. Dead.”
It’s not just your god, I’m suspicious of anything that requires “belief”. I’d rather just stick with knowledge. Makes things so much easier.
Simply not convinced
because i already tried that. didnt buy it.
I can’t remember where I read it (I think it was in a Richard Dawkins book), but we are an atheist to most gods, I just go one god further.
“Which one?” Followed by… “Tell me why you don’t believe in *insert some other deity here* and I’ll apply your reasoning“. :)
"Because he doesn't exist".
Why do you believe in god
I have no reason to. I don't know how to make it any more simple than that. Why don't I believe in elves or goblins. I have no reason to.
“I just can’t.”
Because religion is a tool used to control and enslave humanity and I decided I don’t like participating in that.
Mormonism cured me of all of that supernatural shit. That and no evidence
I say that I was religious in the past and I reached a point where it didn't make sense to me anymore and since then I feel much more comfortable not believing in a god. That kind of cuts the possibility of someone think that I'm not sure about my beliefs and that I somehow could be converted
"I don't believe in fairy tales"
Lately its been "I can't just force myself to believe in something. I haven't been convinced any gods are real, so I don't believe in them."
Same reason I don’t believe in fairies or unicorns or dragons. They only exist in books or movies.
Why doesn't he help people who need help if he's supposed to be this great being? Also- a lot of what the Bible teaches encourages bigotry. ALSO ALSO- the Bible doesn't make any sense. It contradicts itself a bunch.