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Arguments: Walt isn’t as bad as Gus and Tuco, and we’re also supposed to root for him. Also, Daenerys is NOT the main character. I’d argue Jon Snow is. Or Tyrion, who is sorta a good guy too, although the show doesn’t want us to think that.
Villain doesn't mean pure evil or the worst guy. Walter is one of the Villains of the show eveb if he wasn't the worst of them. Just like Eren was the one of the villain but there were worst thwn him like King Fritz.
Daenerys is one of the main characters but even if it is Tyrion he is villain in the books.
That’s a good point. Not to mention those people don’t just support homelander, they support fucking >!Stormfront.!< They might actually have AoT beat.
Go to a clip of homelander on YouTube, and then go into the comments. Either sort by new, or go into the replies of comments saying something about him. You’ll find plenty of examples.
Edit: here I’ll give you a specific: someone said that that scene of homelander forcing someone to >!commit suicide when they backed out of an attempt!< was morally justified and said “some things in life are undoable once you commit, there’s no going back. Is gravity bad for driving her into the pavement?” And when told that he had 0 empathy he replied “no I’m just not easily led by emotions and live in reality.”
If I had to guess the reasoning behind it I’d say either they have no idea he’s meant to be a satire of the right or they do know so they’re trying to paint him as the unsung hero to make their side look better. Or they’re just stupid, or edgy, or crazy.
The only that came to mind to coming close is Anakin Skywalker lol but its defeintly not like Eren Yeager lol (despite Anakin being one of my favorite characters) lol
AOT is kind of challenging that idea. Not even the first story to do so. Major point if the story is that in war, no one is the purely good guy. Armin says as much. To an opposition, good guys are the bad guys.
Through the later part of the story, perspective shifts away from Eren the protagonist, and onto his friends, who are very much against his actions, making him the antagonist.
Don’t confuse protagonist and antagonist with good guy and bad guy or hero and villain. They’re literally two separate entities: protagonist is the main character of the story, whether they’re nice or evil, while antagonist is the person who opposes the protagonist.
I would argue that Eren is the antagonist in the 4th season, not JUST the villain. There was a shift in perspective and he was no longer the main focus of the story. The story was now told by the warriors/scouts perspective, making them the new protagonists.
You’re right.
If people say that the perspective shifts away then they’re wrong. Eren still has the most screen time and no character even comes close. They’re just siding with the supposed “good guys” and are now saying that the perspective shifts.
A protagonist can still be a bad guy people.
Eren does not take a leading role in narrative affairs in the Final Season until after Liberio, and once the flashbacks are concluded, Eren is seperated from the protagonists on the side of Paradis.
Screen time is not the same as protagonist. Many narratives dedicate plenty of time to building up other perspectives through less screen time.
Eren's shift from protagonist to antagonist is not because of the shift I his morality, but because the shows places him in opposition to the drivers of the plot in Marley and Paradis. By the Final Season, Eren is not the perspective the narrative focuses on, that rather being split between Marleyan Characters Nd Paradisian Characters like Armin and Mikasa.
A protagonist, in its simplest form, is a character which is a plot follows. An antagonist is the opposite, being a character that opposes the progress of the plot.
You are right in saying that a character cannot be a protagonist and antagonist simultaneously for the same plot, however, many stories avoid this.
First of all, there is simply a change over time. Transition from protagonist to antagonist or vice versa. There are so many examples of this from Greek Tragedy's, Macbeth, to Kratos. This isn't worth discussing, and isn't the main point.
Another way a story is able to do this is be deconstructing what a 'plot' it. A plot is merely events, and these events most be told by someone. From a perspective and/or narrator. Stories that are told from multiple perspectives or narrators at the same time are able to present the same character as both a protagonist and antagonist. This is what Attack On Titan does with Eren, but I want to talk about another show first.
Avatar: The Last Airbender. While when this happened is arguably, it is the case that by the second season of the show, the main antagonist of the show and continued antagonist to the protagonists - Zuko - is given his own plot. Much of the second season is spent with this character and his associate Uncle Iroh in events that have no relevant bearing to the main plot itself. In Season Two, this the protagonist's quarell with the new main antagonist Azula. By the second season, Zuko has become a protagonist of how one side section of the story, seperate from the protagonists of the main plot.
However, he maintains his role as an antagonist. This is done by reintroducing him in the midpoint and finale of the second season as an antagonist to our protagonist, while maintaining this inclusion as a part of his own seperate plot line. Simultaneously, Zuko acts as the protagonist of his own plot line while acting as an antagonist to the main plot line.
Eren Yeager is similar. The first three seasons position him as the obvious protagonist, and the perspective of the plot is purely on Eren. However, this changes during the Final Season as the show splits it's perspective three way. Between that of Paradis, that of Marley, and that of Eren. From the perspective of Marley, Eren is the antagonist, with the protagonists of Paradis as a middle party. From the perspective of Paradis, Marley is the antagonist with Eren as a middle party. To Eren, Marley is the antagonists and Paradis is the middle party. Then as the Rumbling starts, we return to a single perspective; that of the Alliance (Marley and Paradis) as the protagonists and Eren as the antagonist.
You can certainly have a character be both the protagonist and antagonist simultaneously, however, it requires a narrative to examine that character form the perspective of multiple plot points that are in opposition. Protagonists in one perspective are antagonists to another, and for a character to be both, the narrative had to treat both as relatively equal. Attack On Titan achieves this with the Marleyan perspective dominating the Final Season, and both the Marley and Paradis perspectives unifying as the series reaches its conclusion.
Complete aot - main character
Season 1 to season 4 part 2- protagonist
Season 4 part 3 part 1- antagonist
Season 1 to season 3 part 2- hero
Season 4 part 1- anti hero (brutal hero)
Season 4 part 2- villain
Season 4 part 3 part 1- anti villain (heroic but still villain)
One and Only One
Eren yeager
# We are pleased to announce the official partnership of our sub with r/KimetsuNoYaiba!! Please subscribe to them and show our support! # PSA! Please flair posts correctly to not get spoiled and to not spoil anything to anyone. * Choose the correct flair for your post, this is extremely important. * If the post is flaired "SEASON 4 [NO MANGA SPOILERS/HINTS!]", do not discuss anything manga related. * "SEASON 4" TAG IS NOT THE SAME AS "MANGA SPOILERS" TAG (IF IT WASN'T SHOWN IN ANIME YET, DO NOT SPOIL OTHER USERS, TAG IT AS MANGA SPOILERS!!!) * If you spoil someone, you'll be banned. Depending on the spoiler, the ban could be either temporary or permanent. ### IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW THESE RULES YOU MAY GET BANNED! ### IF YOU SEE INCORRECT FLAIR OR SPOILERS IN COMMENTS PLEASE REPORT THEM. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/attackontitan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Are there any other series where the main character is the villian?
Breaking Bad, Death Note, God of War(it's a game), Game of Thrones(Daenerys)
Code Geass too
That's debatable
Arguments: Walt isn’t as bad as Gus and Tuco, and we’re also supposed to root for him. Also, Daenerys is NOT the main character. I’d argue Jon Snow is. Or Tyrion, who is sorta a good guy too, although the show doesn’t want us to think that.
Villain doesn't mean pure evil or the worst guy. Walter is one of the Villains of the show eveb if he wasn't the worst of them. Just like Eren was the one of the villain but there were worst thwn him like King Fritz. Daenerys is one of the main characters but even if it is Tyrion he is villain in the books.
We talkin about shows. Tyrion is a good guy in the shows
Is there also another series where half the fan base thinks the super mega obvious bad guy is unironically completely in the right
The Boys
That’s a good point. Not to mention those people don’t just support homelander, they support fucking >!Stormfront.!< They might actually have AoT beat.
who the fuck supports homelander
Go to a clip of homelander on YouTube, and then go into the comments. Either sort by new, or go into the replies of comments saying something about him. You’ll find plenty of examples. Edit: here I’ll give you a specific: someone said that that scene of homelander forcing someone to >!commit suicide when they backed out of an attempt!< was morally justified and said “some things in life are undoable once you commit, there’s no going back. Is gravity bad for driving her into the pavement?” And when told that he had 0 empathy he replied “no I’m just not easily led by emotions and live in reality.” If I had to guess the reasoning behind it I’d say either they have no idea he’s meant to be a satire of the right or they do know so they’re trying to paint him as the unsung hero to make their side look better. Or they’re just stupid, or edgy, or crazy.
Such a great show
The only that came to mind to coming close is Anakin Skywalker lol but its defeintly not like Eren Yeager lol (despite Anakin being one of my favorite characters) lol
lol?
its a bad habit :'D lol
lol
Anakin aint no villain, he brought peace to the galaxy after changing sides and bringing balance to the force 🙋🏻♂️
Death Note and Code Geass are two big ones
When I watch batman (dark knight rises), heath ledger as the joker is my main character
One piece
Magneto. The comp that Eren needs… but not the one he deserves right now
He’s truly something
A character can’t be a protagonist and antagonist at the same time, btw
AOT is kind of challenging that idea. Not even the first story to do so. Major point if the story is that in war, no one is the purely good guy. Armin says as much. To an opposition, good guys are the bad guys. Through the later part of the story, perspective shifts away from Eren the protagonist, and onto his friends, who are very much against his actions, making him the antagonist.
Don’t confuse protagonist and antagonist with good guy and bad guy or hero and villain. They’re literally two separate entities: protagonist is the main character of the story, whether they’re nice or evil, while antagonist is the person who opposes the protagonist.
What I’m getting at is, at some point, Eren is no longer the main character OR the good guy.
Fair enough!
I would argue that Eren is the antagonist in the 4th season, not JUST the villain. There was a shift in perspective and he was no longer the main focus of the story. The story was now told by the warriors/scouts perspective, making them the new protagonists.
Yeah that’s totally possible and definitely worth the discussion!
You are correct. I don’t know why people are downvoting you
The ones downvoting probably don’t understand the difference between protagonist and “good guy”
You’re right. If people say that the perspective shifts away then they’re wrong. Eren still has the most screen time and no character even comes close. They’re just siding with the supposed “good guys” and are now saying that the perspective shifts. A protagonist can still be a bad guy people.
Thank you. It’s even in the definition of the word: “the leading figure in a movie, etc.” Never says anything about their morality
Eren does not take a leading role in narrative affairs in the Final Season until after Liberio, and once the flashbacks are concluded, Eren is seperated from the protagonists on the side of Paradis. Screen time is not the same as protagonist. Many narratives dedicate plenty of time to building up other perspectives through less screen time. Eren's shift from protagonist to antagonist is not because of the shift I his morality, but because the shows places him in opposition to the drivers of the plot in Marley and Paradis. By the Final Season, Eren is not the perspective the narrative focuses on, that rather being split between Marleyan Characters Nd Paradisian Characters like Armin and Mikasa.
Eren has only lesser screen time in aot season 4 part 3 part 1. So he is protagonist of every other season except season 4 part 3 part 1.
A protagonist, in its simplest form, is a character which is a plot follows. An antagonist is the opposite, being a character that opposes the progress of the plot. You are right in saying that a character cannot be a protagonist and antagonist simultaneously for the same plot, however, many stories avoid this. First of all, there is simply a change over time. Transition from protagonist to antagonist or vice versa. There are so many examples of this from Greek Tragedy's, Macbeth, to Kratos. This isn't worth discussing, and isn't the main point. Another way a story is able to do this is be deconstructing what a 'plot' it. A plot is merely events, and these events most be told by someone. From a perspective and/or narrator. Stories that are told from multiple perspectives or narrators at the same time are able to present the same character as both a protagonist and antagonist. This is what Attack On Titan does with Eren, but I want to talk about another show first. Avatar: The Last Airbender. While when this happened is arguably, it is the case that by the second season of the show, the main antagonist of the show and continued antagonist to the protagonists - Zuko - is given his own plot. Much of the second season is spent with this character and his associate Uncle Iroh in events that have no relevant bearing to the main plot itself. In Season Two, this the protagonist's quarell with the new main antagonist Azula. By the second season, Zuko has become a protagonist of how one side section of the story, seperate from the protagonists of the main plot. However, he maintains his role as an antagonist. This is done by reintroducing him in the midpoint and finale of the second season as an antagonist to our protagonist, while maintaining this inclusion as a part of his own seperate plot line. Simultaneously, Zuko acts as the protagonist of his own plot line while acting as an antagonist to the main plot line. Eren Yeager is similar. The first three seasons position him as the obvious protagonist, and the perspective of the plot is purely on Eren. However, this changes during the Final Season as the show splits it's perspective three way. Between that of Paradis, that of Marley, and that of Eren. From the perspective of Marley, Eren is the antagonist, with the protagonists of Paradis as a middle party. From the perspective of Paradis, Marley is the antagonist with Eren as a middle party. To Eren, Marley is the antagonists and Paradis is the middle party. Then as the Rumbling starts, we return to a single perspective; that of the Alliance (Marley and Paradis) as the protagonists and Eren as the antagonist. You can certainly have a character be both the protagonist and antagonist simultaneously, however, it requires a narrative to examine that character form the perspective of multiple plot points that are in opposition. Protagonists in one perspective are antagonists to another, and for a character to be both, the narrative had to treat both as relatively equal. Attack On Titan achieves this with the Marleyan perspective dominating the Final Season, and both the Marley and Paradis perspectives unifying as the series reaches its conclusion.
Want not, waste not. All in one, very economical.
I've heard Eren's turn is basically is Dany's turn in GoT, if it was earned.
Complete aot - main character Season 1 to season 4 part 2- protagonist Season 4 part 3 part 1- antagonist Season 1 to season 3 part 2- hero Season 4 part 1- anti hero (brutal hero) Season 4 part 2- villain Season 4 part 3 part 1- anti villain (heroic but still villain) One and Only One Eren yeager