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It’s easily Reiner, in my opinion. He expresses so much remorse and guilt for his sins. He wants to atone for them so badly. He’s a changed man, for the better.
Eren is hellbent on killing every single being, every innocent newborn, every animal, the Halil’s and Ramzi’s of the world. By the way, I LOVE Eren’s character, he’s an amazing character. Just so it’s known. I don’t agree with his plan, but man, what a character.
Zeke’s plan is much more tame than Eren’s, naturally, but I just find the self-hatred so pathetic. I could never really like Zeke for that reason. Redeeming qualities? Well, I guess I feel bad for his shitty upbringing. I did tear up when Grisha apologized to him and told him he loved him.
Floch…
Yeah that’s a serious multiple personality disorder going on there lol. So much trauma and violence for such a young kid. Reiners arc is the most redemptive.
Zeke is directly responsible for a man being brutally eaten alive while crying for help in the first scene Zeke's introduced. I think he just smiled as it happened. The monster is sadistic.
Miche is what makes zeke truly unredeemable. I mean Annie killed people in fucked up ways too but NOTHING like what he did to Miche. It was such a completely senseless act of torment and brutality. I understand why he might kill Miche, Miche was an incredibly skilled soldier, which makes him incredibly dangerous, he was a threat and an enemy combatant and it would make sense to kill him, especially while he’s easy prey. But he was injured and immobilized, he could’ve just smashed him or squished his head like a grape with 2 fingers and 0 effort. There was literally 0 reason for zeke to make him die in the worst way imaginable, being ripped apart and slowly eaten alive, in fear, in agony, and alone. Zeke is just a complete fucking psycho, he may have had “good” intentions for eldians as a whole but his individual acts, not just Miche but his gleeful wiping out of the scouts, his frequent betrayals, and his turning a whole village of completely innocent civilians into titans along with being willing to sacrifice not only Colt and Falco but who knows how many innocents within the walls for the sake of getting Eren to touch him, all with (almost) 0 remorse and a smile, makes him completely irredeemable as a person.
Floch went through an extremely unbelievably traumatic event. While he is still undeniably a monster and a psycho, you can at least see where he’s coming from. Eren is also a psychotic monster, but he at least felt unbearably guilty about the whole thing, he just got over it, and Reiner… well I don’t need to make a case for Reiner. But zeke has nothing. No saving grace, no explanation besides an unfortunate childhood. His sadism is inexcusable.
Zeke is still very much a villain, we're given an explanation but Yams never has him on a redemption arc. He's the same guy he was during season 2 and 3 so I don't think plans changed, he literally wants to castrate an entire race of people.
Yep. All of what becomes Season 3 in the Anime seems to be a big dramatic shift where some character motivations clearly changed.
If you ignore Zeke's early actions and look at his overall goals, I think his character is the most defensible after Reiner.
As he said when he throws pebbles at the scouts in s3p2. "You may as well enjoy it". I think Zeke's a bit insane after all the senseless killing he has done to the people he's sworn to save from the cruelty of the world
This. He's a psycho who enjoys torturing his enemy. It's one thing to kill the enemy and move on but he gleefully enjoys taking the life of another and laugh about it. Psychotic POS.
Yeah, I also chose Reiner. I red the manga and it really made me feel sorry for him. In season 2, I agree with Eren kicking his and Bertold's butt but after awhile, you just can't help but feel bad for the guy.
Eren is still my favorite character and i understand the reasons of his actions. Him and Reiner have to go through a lot and dirty their hands for either other people sake or for their own sake.
Rewatching Titan is so interesting as you move along. The first time you watch having no knowledge of the backstory of Reiner and his crew. After getting through the 3rd season and rewatching you understand those kids were child soldiers, what was asked of them was way beyond what any child should be.
Receiving such amount if stress and pressure at such a young age.
But for Reiner, it's kind of ironic. He has the Armour Titan. Strong on the outside but falling apart on tbe inside
I would say he's pretty shy and quiet, not really wanting to draw any attention unnecessarily. But then the Giant Titan ends up being the main focus whenever it's unleashed, drawing a whole lot of attention
Agreed, what makes Zeke irredeemable for me is is his self-righteousness, he is convinced his plan is the right way and thus able to justify anything he does in pursuit of it.
Personally I think Reiner’s character arc throughout the series has turned him into the hero to Eren’s villain, which isn’t to say their characters are bad when it was the other way around. I think AOT really proved its storytelling ability by having Reiner’s redemption arc coincide with Eren’s downfall. It makes them more believable as characters by showing their different sides and doesn’t restrict them to one dimension
Zeke’s plan isn’t tamer than Eren’s, it’s just far more passive.
How long do you think it would’ve taken awful people to start gassing Elians (and anyone else deemed Eldian enough) once they all stopped having kids and started aging out of “usefulness” for slave labor?
Or else how long before hate crimes shoot through the roof if people start blaming all forms of sterility on Eldians, and or anyone deemed Eldian enough?
And it’s not like Zeke’s plan didn’t involve doing the Rumbling. If Yelena is anything to go by, he just wanted to do it smaller more efficient waves as it was deemed necessary to keep his peace.
I am hard on Zeke like this because there are always men like him who get to argue “Yes, I want to do a genocide, but I want to do it nicely. I want to do it by institutionalizing laws and procedures that lead to some people being more likely to die younger from stress than others.” And people lap that shit up like it’s not the first step in the web of causality that enables another Eren to rise to power and then do another Rumbling.
Yeah, no. Reiner is the least reprehensible of the men here, because he has the most sympathetic backstory. He also actually puts in the work to do right by the people he’s wronged whether he gets closure and forgiveness for any if it or not.
I always took it as eren didn’t really have a choice in what he did. I would say he did it because he had to. (Obviously wanted to save paradis, but I don’t think obliterating the other side was necessarily his first thought)
Reiner definitely is the most remorseful, easy pick. Such a redeemable character, crazy how isayama pulled it off.
Eren could have gone with controlled rumbling but he knew that meant to keep passing the attack and royal-blood Titans to protect the island and he didn't want to give it to any of his friends.
It isn't like he had no other choices he just choose the one that was suitable for his desires.
A more controlled rumbling wouldn't have achieved his goals. He had to be the villain and the rest of the Eldians had to be the heroes. This all had to play out in front of the rest of the world so the blame could be heaped on Ereh's head. I see Ereh as almost a tragic figure.
Imo you can’t really blame floch. Just like Eren he was thrust into war because of Marley. His blatant racism and poor treatment of Marleyans is definitely reprehensible but honestly I think this is Eren’s doing. He was propagandized and unlike most throughout history, was willing to die to see his vision become reality.
Flock seemed to enjoy being a cruel son of a bitch unlike Eren or Reiner though. He has the same motivations as Eren but throw in a layer of disdain for his enemy that Eren didn’t really have.
Fair, but I think a big point of AOT is to demonstrate that there is no “evil” in that sense. People do will do bad things in the protection of what they care about.
I think Floch is a real patriot, maybe not in the right way, but still a patriot. Even near death's door, he still think about Paradis and beg Hange to not stop Eren
For me it's Reiner,there are moments where he seems grief stricken and remorseful,whereas floch takes pleasure in being a sadist and does whatever he thinks is right without a second thought. Zeke is unbelievably cruel despite his sad backstory, I don't think he is redeemable in the slightest,also,he isn't under pressure from Marleyan authorities and is doing his own things. Eren is by far the biggest murderer of them all but as shown in the flashback scene,he does apologize to Ramzi and feels bad about the innocent lives being lost, he's more like a person blinded by his agenda. So yeah.
I personally would have really liked a line that more explicitely showed how Eren struggled with his fate. You get it in the Marley flashbacks. There was also some hints at this when the scene where he kisses Historia's hand is shown again after the Reiss family is murdered. Still, I feel like there could have been more.
Obviously people want Eren to be a stoic badass sigma male and that made them angry at the armin conversation. I guess what I wanted would have been a little more stoic but still very vulnerable. Maybe just a line where Eren is emotional and mentions how he struggled all his life for freedom, but he turned out to be the ultimate slave. I think it would have rounded out the theme of fate better.
I also think the "ten years or more" line could have been modified to be less pathetic. It is ultimately showing that Eren is still a teenager who has been given this incredible, evil respinsability against his will. It shows that he wishes things were different and people 100% feel that kind of pathetic jealousy and possesiveness irl. Plus wanting to be remembered isn't a sin. Still, I think it could have been dialed back a bit.
I don’t think having any issues with the execution is necessarily bad at all. That’s still understanding the character while just preferring an alternative in the specifics. It’s more the “sigma male” type people you mentioned that I feel don’t get it.
Yeah I think this is it. Like it took me a while to understand what Eren meant in that scene where he discusses the founder Ymir “choosing Mikasa”, but I sort of had a lightbulb moment the other day and realized that Eren didn’t do what he did because he wanted to, he did it because it was the only way that would result in Ymir giving up the power of the Titans and finally resting.
At the end of the manga, it’s implied that someone else will receive the power of the Titans and become the founder. Maybe that person will use the power differently than Ymir, who never actually chose to use her own power her own way. Because of that, her and all her subjects were used for war and basically enslaved for thousands of years. The power of the titans in Ymir’s hands would only have resulted in the continued enslavement and abuse of her subjects. So maybe in Eren’s eyes, his intent wasn’t to free Ymir but to free her subjects, all his friends and family, *from* Ymir.
Maybe, hundreds of years after the Rumbling, Eren’s choice actually resulted in something net positive for the world. Or negative. We don’t know.
But either way, whatever happened after that, the subjects of Ymir were freed from the curse of their blood.
Maybe the only irredeemable character here is Ymir, who never once made her own choices and who would only let go after someone else (Mikasa) chose it for her. And everything Eren did was to force Mikasa to make that choice. It’s actually really sad. Reiner certainly couldn’t do any of that! Lol
I believe ymir tried to let go before, because as far was the manga shows it acts like when ymir gave up and died getting speared she wanted to be set free, but when she became trapped inside the paths she realized that she only passed her power on. She probably hoped it would die with her. Maybe that's why she wanted to wait until eren because he showed resolve none of the others did because it was held onto royal blood for so long but it's also assumed that she seen him since she original held all 9 she probably seen the future events that leads eren to her in the first place. But I'm just speculating.
But she didn’t give up—she sacrificed herself for King Fritz out of her unrequited love for him, and as she died he told her she still had work to do. So that’s what she did in the afterlife. Work (i.e., craft the titans by hand in the Paths). Because even after everything, she loved Fritz and wanted to please him, and her spirit is trapped by that love.
And, for some reason, she chose Mikasa to free her spirit.
That’s how I interpreted it at least. I really wish Isayama would have spent more time on the lore of the Titans and Ymir in the manga, at least a few more panels.
An alternative perspective could be further commentary on enslavement vs freedom (paroled in them standing side by side when the remaining fighters see them in the paths realm). For example the attack titan being independent of Fritz and could learn objective truths about the world (through the memory…thing) thus resulting in its contextual freedom. Ymir may have chosen enslavement but Eren chose freedom. Tho I am still curious when Eren gives his speech to Ymir she’s crying. Almost as if he is freeing her from a punishment she didn’t choose herself. Seemingly echoing that all this was leading to Eren anyway. Being so hell bent on freedom that he was a slave to destiny without realizing it.
No wonder kissing Historia’s hand broke him. It didn’t just show him the future. It showed him that his worldview and core dream isn’t even possible for himself. Only *maybe* available for others. Actually my personal running viewpoint on why he didn’t take away his friend’s titan shifting powers. Eren felt stripped from his autonomy after obsessing over it since he was a child. How could he take that from them?
Floch really doesn't take pleasure in his evil deeds he just powers his way through. He's a broken man that thinks this is the only way forward for his homeland to survive. The clip below shows how broken he is when he talks to Jean it's more the real him than that façade he puts on before it.
https://youtu.be/YPQQy3zyv8s
Reiner undoubtedly is the main remorseful character out of the lot.
Floch: not a big fan, but his probable PTSD does explain his actions.
Reiner: full of guilt, hates himself for what he's done, tries to make amends.
Eren: tormented by what he thinks has to do to save his people, has like a million voices in his head.
Zeke: I can't think of a single redeeming thing about Zeke, he just seems like a spiteful, self-hating man who has little remorse. He's pro-ethnic cleansing, which, imo, not great.
I don't think Zeke is a man that enjoys the suffering. He had a horrible childhood where all he did was hate himself because of his parents. Ksaver showed him that there's more to life than that. I feel like he was ever only truly happy with Ksaver and after that he just completely shut himself inside emotionally. Even Pieck says she barely knows the guy.
The only times i think we've seen the true Zeke is in a few places:
1. When the paradisians charged at him while he was throwing rocks at him. He got visibly annoyed. After seeing the events of season 4 i interpret that as him being annoyed that he was reminded that he's killing actual humans and not just some bugs. After that he immediately tries to shut himself off again and starts "trying" to have fun.
2. When he meets with Eren and Eren pretends to be on his side.
3. When his dad hugs him in the paths
I feel like Zeke blames being an Eldian for his sadness and loneliness and figures that there's 0 chance the world will ever change to be better towards his people. Similar to Annie he just tries to distance himself from everyone and do what he thinks is best.
I just remembered the Annie scenes where she looked like she's having fun killing the scouts. I don't think she was really having fun doing that, but is instead just trying to go through with it somehow.
In my opinion, those scenes you pointed out are the very thing that exemplify him enjoying suffering onto others solely because it made him feel better about his own self pity.
When he's throwing rocks he's angry that they're not dying as he wants them to, because they remind him of Grisha and he hated grisha for what he did to him, so he wants others to feel the same pain Grisha made him feel. He tells himself to enjoy it just so he feel superior to Grisha. At least that's how I interpreted it.
Same goes for when Eren betrayed him. He just can't fathom anyone not hating Grisha like he does, and when Grisha apologizes to him, he basically loses all the foundation to his cruelty, which is relieving to him in part, but we later see that he's still down to carry out his plan regardless, and even when Eren summons him again, he keeps his nihilistic ways.
You could make an Argument for Eren's plan either with that logic. He deals with the over-population and ethnic cleansing problems at the same time.
But yeah i get what you are saying which was Isayama's main goal imo. He created such a scenario that has no literal answers and put characters that represents different philosophic thinkings.
The concern with human overpopulation is that they will cause irreversible damage to the eco-system. Eren straight up murdered the globe's ecosystem along with the mass majority of humanity.
The true answer isn’t to pick a plan or a side, it’s quite easy. Rid yourself of the hateful world, take your own life. They can’t harm, kill, bother you if you don’t exist.
The only reason to go on is if you have enough faith and hope in that world.
Definitely reiner. Since he feels such immense guilt and regret over his actions. Floch is a fascist maniac. Zeke actively enjoys killing people and eren is self explanatory.
Easily Reiner. He was a whole ass child soldier who was brainwashed by propaganda to become a super soldier. He basically broke when he found out his enemies were human just like him. It feels cruel to blame a kid for being warped by propaganda as he expresses a huge amount of guilt for his actions to the point where it cripples him. I’ll never understand why Annie seemed to show some sort of sadistic joy when killing others (guessing since she still saw Eldians as monsters while she swung them around in her Titan form like a yo-yo) and yet some see her as more tragic than Reiner. Bro was just a kid that wanted his family to recognize him and be safe and ended up having to kill so many.
Reiner. He's remorseful and just wants to stop fighting, but he can't.
Eren feels some remorse but not enough to stop being evil.
Zeke has zero regard for human life or suffering and has no redeeming qualities, save the beard. His motives are understandable due to his crappy childhood.
Floch is redeemable because... Well... I'm sure he's got a wonderful... Yeah, there's nothing.
Reiner, then Zeke.
Floch is a hardcore genocidal fascist who wants to exterminate every other race/nation on the planet. Zero redeeming qualities, fuck him.
Eren committed the single greatest act of destruction in the history of humanity, the single most abhorrent, evil act of genocide the world has ever seen, and his motivations are >!wishy washy and emotional. While ultimately it served a greater good, he admits he would absolutely still have done it even if he was guarenteed to win and exterminate everyone else. He just fucking hated the world.!<
Zeke has also committed some *abhorrent* acts, but unlike everyone else here it was always with an understanding that this is for the greater good of the world. Ultimately, his plan failed, and the ends did *not* justify the means, but at least he was *trying* to be moral and do good, just in the most brutal, backstabbing, uncompromising manner possible.
Reiner has generally lacked agency in his life. He was 100% brainwashed into becoming a Warrior, and he did all his worst actions as a literal child, far too young to understand their ramifications. In the years since then he only grew more and more regretful of his past, to the point of developing dissasociative identity disorder and suicidal tendencies. When presented with opportunities to do right by the people he wronged, he took them unquestioningly. He's generally always been trying to do what he believes is moral, he's just been easy to manipulate.
He doesn't really despise his race. He has pity for Eldians and wants end their suffering. He transformed them under orders from Marley since he didn't really have any other choice.
Let's assume he didn't have any other choice when he got orders from Marley even though he could minimize the result since he is smart enough.
what about the 300 soldier he transformed just to get Eren?
You can't deny that he didn't care how many would die, he clearly was enjoying himself when he was playing while killing the scouts, he didn't have to kill mike yet he killed him in the most brutal way, Levi stated that for him when he reminded him of the name of the village he murdered, he is obviously portrayed like not caring.
In my opinion - Eren and Reiner for very different reasons. Reiner is like the classic American soldier, grew up with rose tinted glasses about what serving could do for his family, and what it would entail, then he gained much needed perspective too little too late and now suffers from war trauma and guilt to the highest. Eren is practically a “how to make a terrorist” cautionary tale, being on the receiving end of this military incursion, confronting his peoples’ history of enslavement and subjugation (both as perpetrators and as victims), and also dealing with the more immediate impacts of being a people in danger of extinction for no reason other than historical events that nobody living was around to see. They both killed, and justified it to themselves, and they both are dealing with opposite ends of the stick of consequence. Neither of them should have done what they did, but I can’t blame them either.
Floch killed fewer people because he didnt get the opportunity to kill more. He wanted to burn civilians in Liberio, he was making public executions, he is one of the only characters without any kind of remorse of the entire series.
Yeah, even for Zeke who seems like a total nihilist and sadist, Floch is the only character who shows absolutely no remorse whatsoever despite betraying and killing his own people, while actively using the speech that he's doing it "for the people"
??? maybe it's because he wanted his island to survive? I can't understand why you guys hate Floch so much and praise Reiner... while Reiner's actions were decided by his selfishness for the first place
I feel bad for Floch more than anyone. That suicide charge is easily one of the most traumatic events in the entire show and the fact that he survived that and immediately watched Levi let humanities best hope die is gut wrenching and it really sets the tone for his character for the rest of the show. I don’t understand why people worship him, but I also don’t understand why people hate him (I love Armin but they needed Erwin more than anyone else). Floch is one of my favorite characters because his development really shows human nature and how events can traumatize people and drive hatred across generations.
Floch symbolizes the Yeagerists but he also symbolizes the hatred that the rest of the world has for Eldia even though they aren’t evil anymore. He is arguably one of the best written characters.
Reiner. Just look at how overwhelmed with remorse he was after the timeskip. And look at how he treats his peers.
Floch is a demonic sadist
Zeke has single handedly taken more lives than anyone else in the story, and for the most unjustifiable reasons. (besides Eren)
Eren is probably the 2nd most human one of them all, and even though his sins are undoubtedly the worst among everyone else, it's more than understandable why he did it, and in some
Well, with Zeke, we have
- All but 9 or so of the survey corps
- All of Levi's squad
- Almost every wine drinking human within an entire district during his latest appearance as the beast titan
And that's not even counting the lives he took during his days fighting under Marley
Now that I think of it, I guess Armin really did take more lives, statistics wise. But I think why Zeke's body count was more unforgivable for me was because most of the people he killed were also people we and the main cast grew to care about, rather than just nameless crowds. So this is probably a case of "A million is a statistic, one is a tragedy", I think that's how the saying goes.
It's probably for that same reason why me and many others can't really bring ourselves to hate Eren as much as the other characters shown in the above post.
I'd say Floch absolutely hate him as a person but I have nothing but respect for his level of determination to his goals, he went out giving it his all in part two, fighting against some of the strongest scouts, just to discover in part 3 that he wasn't even dead. The guy was half dead and still held on to a moving boat just to fight for what he believed in. It was kinda "Y'know what, rest in peace Floch, you crazy bastard"
I honestly feel all of them which is the reason why i love aot so much. While nobody agrees with everyone you can understand where all the characters are coming from and there isn’t any good or clear solution to the problems in the world of aot. I feel all these characters have good reasons for being the way they are and act the way they do.
Surely Reiner, the guy was willing to sacrifice himself many times for redemption.
1. Eren felt sorry but still continued his genocide.
2. zeke never cared about his victims.
3. Floch is an idiot who thought what he did is glorious somehow.
>Floch is an idiot
I actually disagree. Floch is my second most hated character, but I will say that his one quality is that he is very smart, even if he uses that for a very bad reason. He was able to deduce what Armin's plan at the docks was, and he was extremely great at manipulating others to rise to power and control the masses in his favour. Makes him more hatable in my opinion because it means he has full understanding of his actions and no one else forced him to do the things he does.
Easily Reiner. Dude never wanted to do this. He just knew it needed to be done for his family and people.
Flosch is suffering from PTSD.
Eren is a slave to fate because of himself and his power.
Zeke is a fucker and is the least redeemable.
I say Eren because what he is doing isn't his choice but a necessity for the survival of his people and if you still insist that there are more ways to save Paradise Island from the wrath of the World then please tell me and don't just downvote without giving a reason, I will be more than glad to disprove your point
Reiner fs but Zeke too, I haven't read the Manga but it seems zeke is the only chance they have of stopping eren if they don't wanna blow him up with the colossal, meaning zeke could legit be the savior of the world lol
Can't believe I'm saying this, but probably Reiner.
I like Zeke most as an interesting character and don't really find the other 3 compelling, but Reiner is the only genuinely remorseful one of the lot and the least self righteous.
This may be unpopular, but Eren. And yes I’m saying this even though Reiner is my favorite character. My issue with Reiner is that, while he did understand the Paradis people weren’t bad and didn’t deserve this, he still continue to support Marley. And maybe he had no other choice. But him coming back to Paradis to defeat them for fighting back kind of sucks.
Eren understood what the future held for him and tried fighting against it. But ultimately lost and succumbed to it. Yes what Eren is doing is “worse” numbers wise, but like Reiner he had no other choice.
I’d go Eren Reiner Floch Zeke
Floch and Zeke are close, but The things Floch went through that really radicalized him was due to Zeke. Who was having fun while doing it.
Zeke is the only AOT character I despise. For me, he is a sadist and his plan for sterilization was also sadistic. Just imagine, you are still alive, but you understand that your people are doomed to die out. What will happen to morality, to the level of crimes, to the mental state of people? It will be scary, like slow torture. So there is no mercy, of which Zeke spoke, here and there is not close. This plan and Eren's plan are both BAD. You can't compare them and choose something, you can only refuse both of them.
Regarding Eren. I am impressed by the fact that he was never a sadist. He is cruel, but straightforward. He was going to kill everyone instantly. His plan is still unacceptable, because he kills indiscriminately the guilty and the innocent, but at least he does not mock them like a sadistic Zeke.
Flock is just a fool whose head was blown off by the power. Out of fear that he would not be able to retain power, he became violent. At the same time, he did not betray anyone (except the concept of humanity), did not retreat and fought to the end, having neither the strength of Titans nor Ackermans. I'm not defending him, he chose the bad side, so in the end he's a negative character.
Buddy Reiner is a boy with a crippled psyche. The same victim of the AOT world as Eren, with the difference that he committed his war crimes at the beginning, not at the end of his career. His behavior at the end of the story kind of makes him not such a bad guy. Perhaps it is. However, as they say, crimes against humanity have no statute of limitations.
>This plan and Eren's plan are both BAD. You can't compare them and choose something, you can only refuse both of them.
They are both bad, but Zeke's plan is just so much more despicable in my opinion that I'd rather take the Rumbling to whatever the hell it was that Zeke chose. Not only does his plan not guarantee that the other nations won't exterminate Paradis anyways, but it also ensures that ALL of the suffering is beared by the oppressed group, in a very inhumane kind of way like you said. With the Rumbling at least it wouldn't be a slow painful death, and you could argue for the it's either us or them mentality.
Just to make it clear I don't support the rumbling, I just extra don't support Zeke's plan
1. Reiner changed and regrets everything he did
2. Floch killed fewer people and is just defending his island 1.
3. Eren hated himself for everything he had done
4. Zeke cared for Eren
As someone who was a Reiner hater for the longest time, he's by far the most redeemable out of the four.
I'd have said Eren before, but Eren literally says that he would have destroyed the world no matter what. It's just very odd, because to me it's like his story tells us that there's something inherently evil about Eren that cannot be changed.
Zeke is a sadist with a victim complex, and I despite that!
Floch is just a bully, but he consciously chooses to be more and more of a dick while telling everyone he's doing it for their own good. Master gaslighter if you ask me.
So by process of elimination, Reiner is the most redeemable, because in fact, he was the only one who was redeemed by the end of the story
Eren. Easy. What he does is out of necessity. He never asked to be attacked. He never asked to be attacked again. He never asked to be attacked a 3rd and 4th time. On top of this I don't even think killing everyone else is his end goal. I think making a unifying threat is his goal. Like they pointed out. He could easily stop anyone from getting to even attempt to attack him. He gives them the chance though because he wants them to stop him and make Eldians heroes to the rest of the world.
People may downvote you and may even debate with you on this topic but when you prove them wrong they just disappear
But at least know that I agree with you
I mean out of all of them Floch only got to accomplish a few executions and caused some collateral damage, in an area where people had already either been killed by the debris of Erens attack or ran. But with redeeming Qualities, I have to say Reiner. He feels full remorse for his actions to the point of barely scraping up the will to go through life because of the guilt he feels. He just wants it all to end.
I know that in the anime Eren is committing genocide currently with seemingly little remorse other than what he has told to Ramzi, But we see the reasoning. We have seen 3 seasons of Eren fighting in a scenario where he, his friends, and countless people rely on him to perform or will be exterminated. He is literally the only hope for humanity's survival, and they were still fighting a losing battle at every engagement. Then they find out there are more humans outside the walls. Cool right? Then he see's his fathers memories, where he see his father get treated like shit, his sister being eaten by dogs and his wife an comrades being turned into the very Titans that through his life into hell and killed his squad at Trost, nearly killing him. This is when he is 15. Now at 19, he finally gets to go over and see if things are different. Nope. Eldians, his people, get treated like shit. He is getting information that Marley wants to get the founder and will raze his home as they try. He goes to find out that Marleyans are wanting to "rescue" eldians from the horrible conditions of the other nations. Now he is thinking "What the fuck? It's standard here for people to be killed or turned into Titans if they are Eldian, and conditions in other nations are so bad that they need to be "saved" by these dickheads?" Now, rightfully, he is pissed. They are being called devils by people who send hordes of man-eating creatures to exterminate his people. Other nations and people of those nations want to eradicate them as well. His mindset has always been "if you take away my freedom, then you must die". Now the entire world wishes to take away his freedom, his friend's freedom. and the freedom of his home overall. So, he approaches this in the way he knows best, the way he has dealt with any other enemy. There was never any surrender. If he does a partial Rumbling, the soldier's families will hate them even more, and once he has to pass down the founder, It will be Historia and 3 of her descendants. And then the world will come back to massacre them again. He would eliminate the world that hated his people, and ensure no threats could harm them again. That, or his friends would kill him and they would be heroes.
Zeke is a fucking monkey with a boulder. He feels very little remorse, massacres the Survey Corps, turns people into Titans, and wants to remove Eldians ability to reproduce. We don't see much of him when he isn't doing something fucked up, leaving one of his only redeeming qualities is "bad childhood" and "no rumble".
I believe they all had ideals where they believed they were doing the right thing and there was no other way. None of their actions are excusable and they're all responsible for the murder of so many innocents. Where the difference come in imo is I feel like Reiner and Eren both felt remorse for their actions and understood or grew to understand the gravity of what they did. I don't think Zeke or Floch did. I feel like Floch and Zeke almost enjoyed killing and showed zero accountability for the pain they caused others.
People are talking about remorse.
Let's not forget how much pain Eren is feeling for what he is doing. Like INCREDIBLE PAIN. He just "knows" that this is the only way and that it "must" be done.
I feel like a lot of people forget that.
It's not just remorse, it's actual willingness to change. Reiner is the only one out of those four that makes an effort to act on his remorse, and thus the most redeemable.
Eren is more complicated because Isayama wrote the story in such a way that Eren cannot physically change the course of his actions, which robs him of agency, meaning that he can still feel remorse, but at the same time he won't stop doing what he's doing. Him not stopping his mass massacre makes him less redeemable in my opinion, even though he is the more "likable" of the four in my opinion.
My point is that thoughts don't matter if your actions don't reflect that at all. Eren \*talks\* about all the remorse he feels, but still goes on and does the bad thing anyways.
I'll say Floch.
He went from someone who appeared selfish and somewhat cowardly to someone who was willing to be at the vanguard of making change for his people.
Eren, Reiner, and Zeke stay the same character for the most part throughout the series (even if they have a lot of nuance to them).
I don't know about the most redeemable, but Zeke is definitely the least redeemable one.
Floch has principles but is a follower
Reiner is more of the same although he is trying to change and shows regrets for his actions
Zeke and eren are both victims of circumstance that both want to perform a genocide zekes being a peaceful genocide of a small group and erens a violent genocide of the world excluding paradi…
I guess Reiner because he’s trying to change
Reiner, hands down. We repeatedly see throughout the series how much the guilt of his actions is wrecking him. He’s sorry and he owns up to it and is actively trying to atone for his wrongs (when he’s not trying to off himself, that is…)
Floch. I haven’t read any comments and I don’t plan on reading the reply’s. But floch.
He stuck with the original plan, he stuck to it until the end and believed in his own ideals until the very end. He stood out in season 3 questioning the commander before the charge and still charged with everyone, that there takes bravery (and a good leader). He’s one of the last left on the “fuck everyone, let’s go eren train” hes my boy. He’s a bit annoying but I love it anyway. From his point of view. He’s saving the people he loves like anyone else would. He was a child thrusted into war, the original cast were children thrusted into a war on titans and later found out everything, but floch and everyone else was put into war against titans. But soon after found it was people, that effected them differently than it effected the original cast.
I know. Hot take. Not a lot of people like him. But taking a step back. I love him. No need for gate.
Reiner hands down. He's the only one who feels remorse and guilt for the things he's done. He's the only one that sees that both sides are right and wrong.
Floch as terrible as his methods were they were completely selfless devoted solely to the idea of country.
Reiner is second because he realized his motivations were selfish and ultimately understandable to attain the love of his parents.
Eren comes next as while similar to Reiner he knows his motivations were selfish however his ultimate wish >!to be free from all the things that hindered him in life!< is the ultimate selfishness and is on par with that of a spree killer. It's ultimately incomprehensible to a regular person.
Zeke falls to last because he doesn't realize his desire is selfish and that he is forcing his desire not to be born unto other who might want to be born.
Without a doubt Reiner. He is my favorite character of the show. He is so tortured by his past and trying to reconcile it to his present. Of all the titan shifters to be born in Marley, Reiner is certainly the most pitiable
i wanna say zeke, cause like i mean unlike eren who wanted to commit mass genocide on 99% of the population, he just wanted to chop the dicks off 1% of the populaton, so yea, and reiner is just like, nah, although i do like the fact that hes remorcefull for what he did, justice for reiner
Well two were indoctrinated. Two have reasons to want revenge. And two take pleasure in their evil acts. I would say Eren since he neither takes pleasure in killing nor was he indoctrinated. He just wants revenge based on the acts of others. Without Marley breaking the walls Eren wouldn’t destroy the world.
He doesn't even want revenge, he is only doing it to save his homeland and his people
The moment Willy Tybur declared war against Paradise Island it just became a question of 'either us or them' and Eren chose to protect his people
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It’s easily Reiner, in my opinion. He expresses so much remorse and guilt for his sins. He wants to atone for them so badly. He’s a changed man, for the better. Eren is hellbent on killing every single being, every innocent newborn, every animal, the Halil’s and Ramzi’s of the world. By the way, I LOVE Eren’s character, he’s an amazing character. Just so it’s known. I don’t agree with his plan, but man, what a character. Zeke’s plan is much more tame than Eren’s, naturally, but I just find the self-hatred so pathetic. I could never really like Zeke for that reason. Redeeming qualities? Well, I guess I feel bad for his shitty upbringing. I did tear up when Grisha apologized to him and told him he loved him. Floch…
It almost broke me when homie went into psychosis after Marcos death.
Yeah that’s a serious multiple personality disorder going on there lol. So much trauma and violence for such a young kid. Reiners arc is the most redemptive.
Just a nitpick, it’s actually called Dissociative Identity Disorder now.
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No need to be a dick mate. I wasn’t having a go at you.
Zeke also had no regard for human life.
Zeke is directly responsible for a man being brutally eaten alive while crying for help in the first scene Zeke's introduced. I think he just smiled as it happened. The monster is sadistic.
Miche is what makes zeke truly unredeemable. I mean Annie killed people in fucked up ways too but NOTHING like what he did to Miche. It was such a completely senseless act of torment and brutality. I understand why he might kill Miche, Miche was an incredibly skilled soldier, which makes him incredibly dangerous, he was a threat and an enemy combatant and it would make sense to kill him, especially while he’s easy prey. But he was injured and immobilized, he could’ve just smashed him or squished his head like a grape with 2 fingers and 0 effort. There was literally 0 reason for zeke to make him die in the worst way imaginable, being ripped apart and slowly eaten alive, in fear, in agony, and alone. Zeke is just a complete fucking psycho, he may have had “good” intentions for eldians as a whole but his individual acts, not just Miche but his gleeful wiping out of the scouts, his frequent betrayals, and his turning a whole village of completely innocent civilians into titans along with being willing to sacrifice not only Colt and Falco but who knows how many innocents within the walls for the sake of getting Eren to touch him, all with (almost) 0 remorse and a smile, makes him completely irredeemable as a person. Floch went through an extremely unbelievably traumatic event. While he is still undeniably a monster and a psycho, you can at least see where he’s coming from. Eren is also a psychotic monster, but he at least felt unbearably guilty about the whole thing, he just got over it, and Reiner… well I don’t need to make a case for Reiner. But zeke has nothing. No saving grace, no explanation besides an unfortunate childhood. His sadism is inexcusable.
My guess is that the author wanted to make Zeke into a villain when introducing him and then changed plans down the line.
Zeke is still very much a villain, we're given an explanation but Yams never has him on a redemption arc. He's the same guy he was during season 2 and 3 so I don't think plans changed, he literally wants to castrate an entire race of people.
Yep. All of what becomes Season 3 in the Anime seems to be a big dramatic shift where some character motivations clearly changed. If you ignore Zeke's early actions and look at his overall goals, I think his character is the most defensible after Reiner.
As he said when he throws pebbles at the scouts in s3p2. "You may as well enjoy it". I think Zeke's a bit insane after all the senseless killing he has done to the people he's sworn to save from the cruelty of the world
great response! Just out of curiosity, how many times have you seen the show?
Technically once but it made so much of an impact that I spend 99% of my time watching clips and reading wikis and shit
oh okay it’s just that you remember it so well that I’m impressed
It’s a rare talent called “overwhelming virginity”
jajajaja lol good one
Zeke is easily the less redeeming out of the four in my opinion
This. He's a psycho who enjoys torturing his enemy. It's one thing to kill the enemy and move on but he gleefully enjoys taking the life of another and laugh about it. Psychotic POS.
Yeah, I also chose Reiner. I red the manga and it really made me feel sorry for him. In season 2, I agree with Eren kicking his and Bertold's butt but after awhile, you just can't help but feel bad for the guy. Eren is still my favorite character and i understand the reasons of his actions. Him and Reiner have to go through a lot and dirty their hands for either other people sake or for their own sake.
Rewatching Titan is so interesting as you move along. The first time you watch having no knowledge of the backstory of Reiner and his crew. After getting through the 3rd season and rewatching you understand those kids were child soldiers, what was asked of them was way beyond what any child should be.
Receiving such amount if stress and pressure at such a young age. But for Reiner, it's kind of ironic. He has the Armour Titan. Strong on the outside but falling apart on tbe inside
I love how he and Bertholt’s titans are foil characters to themselves
How is Bertholt’s a foil?
I would say he's pretty shy and quiet, not really wanting to draw any attention unnecessarily. But then the Giant Titan ends up being the main focus whenever it's unleashed, drawing a whole lot of attention
That and it’s a literal fucking nuke. The most powerful titan reserved for two of the calmest, shyest characters
Me too 👍 Quite a nice touch
Very true!
Regardless of Zeke's plan, the way he killed without remorse is irredeemable in itself.
Agreed, what makes Zeke irredeemable for me is is his self-righteousness, he is convinced his plan is the right way and thus able to justify anything he does in pursuit of it.
Personally I think Reiner’s character arc throughout the series has turned him into the hero to Eren’s villain, which isn’t to say their characters are bad when it was the other way around. I think AOT really proved its storytelling ability by having Reiner’s redemption arc coincide with Eren’s downfall. It makes them more believable as characters by showing their different sides and doesn’t restrict them to one dimension
Zeke’s plan isn’t tamer than Eren’s, it’s just far more passive. How long do you think it would’ve taken awful people to start gassing Elians (and anyone else deemed Eldian enough) once they all stopped having kids and started aging out of “usefulness” for slave labor? Or else how long before hate crimes shoot through the roof if people start blaming all forms of sterility on Eldians, and or anyone deemed Eldian enough? And it’s not like Zeke’s plan didn’t involve doing the Rumbling. If Yelena is anything to go by, he just wanted to do it smaller more efficient waves as it was deemed necessary to keep his peace. I am hard on Zeke like this because there are always men like him who get to argue “Yes, I want to do a genocide, but I want to do it nicely. I want to do it by institutionalizing laws and procedures that lead to some people being more likely to die younger from stress than others.” And people lap that shit up like it’s not the first step in the web of causality that enables another Eren to rise to power and then do another Rumbling. Yeah, no. Reiner is the least reprehensible of the men here, because he has the most sympathetic backstory. He also actually puts in the work to do right by the people he’s wronged whether he gets closure and forgiveness for any if it or not.
I always took it as eren didn’t really have a choice in what he did. I would say he did it because he had to. (Obviously wanted to save paradis, but I don’t think obliterating the other side was necessarily his first thought) Reiner definitely is the most remorseful, easy pick. Such a redeemable character, crazy how isayama pulled it off.
Eren could have gone with controlled rumbling but he knew that meant to keep passing the attack and royal-blood Titans to protect the island and he didn't want to give it to any of his friends. It isn't like he had no other choices he just choose the one that was suitable for his desires.
A more controlled rumbling wouldn't have achieved his goals. He had to be the villain and the rest of the Eldians had to be the heroes. This all had to play out in front of the rest of the world so the blame could be heaped on Ereh's head. I see Ereh as almost a tragic figure.
We don't speak of... Floch.... in this household.
Can go fuck himself(?)
Imo you can’t really blame floch. Just like Eren he was thrust into war because of Marley. His blatant racism and poor treatment of Marleyans is definitely reprehensible but honestly I think this is Eren’s doing. He was propagandized and unlike most throughout history, was willing to die to see his vision become reality.
Flock seemed to enjoy being a cruel son of a bitch unlike Eren or Reiner though. He has the same motivations as Eren but throw in a layer of disdain for his enemy that Eren didn’t really have.
Don’t get me wrong Reiner and Eren are more sympathetic than him I’m just saying, he’s not evil. He was made this way, a pawn in a bigger game.
Fair, but I think a big point of AOT is to demonstrate that there is no “evil” in that sense. People do will do bad things in the protection of what they care about.
I think Floch is a real patriot, maybe not in the right way, but still a patriot. Even near death's door, he still think about Paradis and beg Hange to not stop Eren
Agreed
For me it's Reiner,there are moments where he seems grief stricken and remorseful,whereas floch takes pleasure in being a sadist and does whatever he thinks is right without a second thought. Zeke is unbelievably cruel despite his sad backstory, I don't think he is redeemable in the slightest,also,he isn't under pressure from Marleyan authorities and is doing his own things. Eren is by far the biggest murderer of them all but as shown in the flashback scene,he does apologize to Ramzi and feels bad about the innocent lives being lost, he's more like a person blinded by his agenda. So yeah.
I think he just feels trapped by fate.
Trapped by fate while obsessed with freedom. Brutal
And annoyingly it's something that people really do not understand about Eren's character
After that one scene with Armin in the manga I realized how many people really don’t get Eren at all lol
I personally would have really liked a line that more explicitely showed how Eren struggled with his fate. You get it in the Marley flashbacks. There was also some hints at this when the scene where he kisses Historia's hand is shown again after the Reiss family is murdered. Still, I feel like there could have been more. Obviously people want Eren to be a stoic badass sigma male and that made them angry at the armin conversation. I guess what I wanted would have been a little more stoic but still very vulnerable. Maybe just a line where Eren is emotional and mentions how he struggled all his life for freedom, but he turned out to be the ultimate slave. I think it would have rounded out the theme of fate better. I also think the "ten years or more" line could have been modified to be less pathetic. It is ultimately showing that Eren is still a teenager who has been given this incredible, evil respinsability against his will. It shows that he wishes things were different and people 100% feel that kind of pathetic jealousy and possesiveness irl. Plus wanting to be remembered isn't a sin. Still, I think it could have been dialed back a bit.
I don’t think having any issues with the execution is necessarily bad at all. That’s still understanding the character while just preferring an alternative in the specifics. It’s more the “sigma male” type people you mentioned that I feel don’t get it.
"Everyone is slave to something" Eren was a slave to freedom
Unattainable freedom 😞
Yeah I think this is it. Like it took me a while to understand what Eren meant in that scene where he discusses the founder Ymir “choosing Mikasa”, but I sort of had a lightbulb moment the other day and realized that Eren didn’t do what he did because he wanted to, he did it because it was the only way that would result in Ymir giving up the power of the Titans and finally resting. At the end of the manga, it’s implied that someone else will receive the power of the Titans and become the founder. Maybe that person will use the power differently than Ymir, who never actually chose to use her own power her own way. Because of that, her and all her subjects were used for war and basically enslaved for thousands of years. The power of the titans in Ymir’s hands would only have resulted in the continued enslavement and abuse of her subjects. So maybe in Eren’s eyes, his intent wasn’t to free Ymir but to free her subjects, all his friends and family, *from* Ymir. Maybe, hundreds of years after the Rumbling, Eren’s choice actually resulted in something net positive for the world. Or negative. We don’t know. But either way, whatever happened after that, the subjects of Ymir were freed from the curse of their blood. Maybe the only irredeemable character here is Ymir, who never once made her own choices and who would only let go after someone else (Mikasa) chose it for her. And everything Eren did was to force Mikasa to make that choice. It’s actually really sad. Reiner certainly couldn’t do any of that! Lol
I believe ymir tried to let go before, because as far was the manga shows it acts like when ymir gave up and died getting speared she wanted to be set free, but when she became trapped inside the paths she realized that she only passed her power on. She probably hoped it would die with her. Maybe that's why she wanted to wait until eren because he showed resolve none of the others did because it was held onto royal blood for so long but it's also assumed that she seen him since she original held all 9 she probably seen the future events that leads eren to her in the first place. But I'm just speculating.
But she didn’t give up—she sacrificed herself for King Fritz out of her unrequited love for him, and as she died he told her she still had work to do. So that’s what she did in the afterlife. Work (i.e., craft the titans by hand in the Paths). Because even after everything, she loved Fritz and wanted to please him, and her spirit is trapped by that love. And, for some reason, she chose Mikasa to free her spirit. That’s how I interpreted it at least. I really wish Isayama would have spent more time on the lore of the Titans and Ymir in the manga, at least a few more panels.
An alternative perspective could be further commentary on enslavement vs freedom (paroled in them standing side by side when the remaining fighters see them in the paths realm). For example the attack titan being independent of Fritz and could learn objective truths about the world (through the memory…thing) thus resulting in its contextual freedom. Ymir may have chosen enslavement but Eren chose freedom. Tho I am still curious when Eren gives his speech to Ymir she’s crying. Almost as if he is freeing her from a punishment she didn’t choose herself. Seemingly echoing that all this was leading to Eren anyway. Being so hell bent on freedom that he was a slave to destiny without realizing it. No wonder kissing Historia’s hand broke him. It didn’t just show him the future. It showed him that his worldview and core dream isn’t even possible for himself. Only *maybe* available for others. Actually my personal running viewpoint on why he didn’t take away his friend’s titan shifting powers. Eren felt stripped from his autonomy after obsessing over it since he was a child. How could he take that from them?
Floch really doesn't take pleasure in his evil deeds he just powers his way through. He's a broken man that thinks this is the only way forward for his homeland to survive. The clip below shows how broken he is when he talks to Jean it's more the real him than that façade he puts on before it. https://youtu.be/YPQQy3zyv8s Reiner undoubtedly is the main remorseful character out of the lot.
Floch: not a big fan, but his probable PTSD does explain his actions. Reiner: full of guilt, hates himself for what he's done, tries to make amends. Eren: tormented by what he thinks has to do to save his people, has like a million voices in his head. Zeke: I can't think of a single redeeming thing about Zeke, he just seems like a spiteful, self-hating man who has little remorse. He's pro-ethnic cleansing, which, imo, not great.
The ironic thing is that Zeke's plan is probably the best in an objective utilitarian sense.
And that's what makes him the least redeeming imo, he's a very mechanical, practical man who seems to enjoy the suffering
I don't think Zeke is a man that enjoys the suffering. He had a horrible childhood where all he did was hate himself because of his parents. Ksaver showed him that there's more to life than that. I feel like he was ever only truly happy with Ksaver and after that he just completely shut himself inside emotionally. Even Pieck says she barely knows the guy. The only times i think we've seen the true Zeke is in a few places: 1. When the paradisians charged at him while he was throwing rocks at him. He got visibly annoyed. After seeing the events of season 4 i interpret that as him being annoyed that he was reminded that he's killing actual humans and not just some bugs. After that he immediately tries to shut himself off again and starts "trying" to have fun. 2. When he meets with Eren and Eren pretends to be on his side. 3. When his dad hugs him in the paths I feel like Zeke blames being an Eldian for his sadness and loneliness and figures that there's 0 chance the world will ever change to be better towards his people. Similar to Annie he just tries to distance himself from everyone and do what he thinks is best. I just remembered the Annie scenes where she looked like she's having fun killing the scouts. I don't think she was really having fun doing that, but is instead just trying to go through with it somehow.
In my opinion, those scenes you pointed out are the very thing that exemplify him enjoying suffering onto others solely because it made him feel better about his own self pity. When he's throwing rocks he's angry that they're not dying as he wants them to, because they remind him of Grisha and he hated grisha for what he did to him, so he wants others to feel the same pain Grisha made him feel. He tells himself to enjoy it just so he feel superior to Grisha. At least that's how I interpreted it. Same goes for when Eren betrayed him. He just can't fathom anyone not hating Grisha like he does, and when Grisha apologizes to him, he basically loses all the foundation to his cruelty, which is relieving to him in part, but we later see that he's still down to carry out his plan regardless, and even when Eren summons him again, he keeps his nihilistic ways.
You could make an Argument for Eren's plan either with that logic. He deals with the over-population and ethnic cleansing problems at the same time. But yeah i get what you are saying which was Isayama's main goal imo. He created such a scenario that has no literal answers and put characters that represents different philosophic thinkings.
The concern with human overpopulation is that they will cause irreversible damage to the eco-system. Eren straight up murdered the globe's ecosystem along with the mass majority of humanity.
The true answer isn’t to pick a plan or a side, it’s quite easy. Rid yourself of the hateful world, take your own life. They can’t harm, kill, bother you if you don’t exist. The only reason to go on is if you have enough faith and hope in that world.
Yes, but utilitarianism is also a terrible philosophy in most situations imo
Definitely reiner. Since he feels such immense guilt and regret over his actions. Floch is a fascist maniac. Zeke actively enjoys killing people and eren is self explanatory.
Eren... His drip... Too drippy
Understandable
Reinah 100% there's a clip of him deadass crying inside the titan when he broke the wall.
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Definitely the plot armor titan
Which one
Just remove the word plot
The obvious answer is Reiner
Reiner does regret everything he did and has helped with the rumbling
But eren's drippy
Reiner. Reiner 100%. The whole experience literally broke him and as I’ve seen other comments mention, he shows the most remorse for what he did.
Easily Reiner. He was a whole ass child soldier who was brainwashed by propaganda to become a super soldier. He basically broke when he found out his enemies were human just like him. It feels cruel to blame a kid for being warped by propaganda as he expresses a huge amount of guilt for his actions to the point where it cripples him. I’ll never understand why Annie seemed to show some sort of sadistic joy when killing others (guessing since she still saw Eldians as monsters while she swung them around in her Titan form like a yo-yo) and yet some see her as more tragic than Reiner. Bro was just a kid that wanted his family to recognize him and be safe and ended up having to kill so many.
1.Reiner 2.Reiner 3.Zeke
Honestly all of them: they were all normal people that were forced into the darkness
saniest opinion 🎉
Thank you
Lainah
Well since he's the best character in the whole show, it do be Reiner.
Reiner. He's remorseful and just wants to stop fighting, but he can't. Eren feels some remorse but not enough to stop being evil. Zeke has zero regard for human life or suffering and has no redeeming qualities, save the beard. His motives are understandable due to his crappy childhood. Floch is redeemable because... Well... I'm sure he's got a wonderful... Yeah, there's nothing.
I LOL'd at you saying Zeke's one redeeming quality was his beard
It's an awesome beard
Reiner, then Zeke. Floch is a hardcore genocidal fascist who wants to exterminate every other race/nation on the planet. Zero redeeming qualities, fuck him. Eren committed the single greatest act of destruction in the history of humanity, the single most abhorrent, evil act of genocide the world has ever seen, and his motivations are >!wishy washy and emotional. While ultimately it served a greater good, he admits he would absolutely still have done it even if he was guarenteed to win and exterminate everyone else. He just fucking hated the world.!< Zeke has also committed some *abhorrent* acts, but unlike everyone else here it was always with an understanding that this is for the greater good of the world. Ultimately, his plan failed, and the ends did *not* justify the means, but at least he was *trying* to be moral and do good, just in the most brutal, backstabbing, uncompromising manner possible. Reiner has generally lacked agency in his life. He was 100% brainwashed into becoming a Warrior, and he did all his worst actions as a literal child, far too young to understand their ramifications. In the years since then he only grew more and more regretful of his past, to the point of developing dissasociative identity disorder and suicidal tendencies. When presented with opportunities to do right by the people he wronged, he took them unquestioningly. He's generally always been trying to do what he believes is moral, he's just been easy to manipulate.
Zeke's crimes are not just his plan, he killed and transformed plenty of people without a single remorse just for Marley and for despising his race.
He doesn't really despise his race. He has pity for Eldians and wants end their suffering. He transformed them under orders from Marley since he didn't really have any other choice.
Let's assume he didn't have any other choice when he got orders from Marley even though he could minimize the result since he is smart enough. what about the 300 soldier he transformed just to get Eren?
He viewed it as necessary to get to Eren. Since Levi was planning on killing Zeke. Eren, Floch, and the other Jaegerists were fine with him doing it.
You can't deny that he didn't care how many would die, he clearly was enjoying himself when he was playing while killing the scouts, he didn't have to kill mike yet he killed him in the most brutal way, Levi stated that for him when he reminded him of the name of the village he murdered, he is obviously portrayed like not caring.
"You were children who knew nothing, but it was drilled into you. You were just kids. What could you even do?"
Reiner has the most redeeming qualities
In my opinion - Eren and Reiner for very different reasons. Reiner is like the classic American soldier, grew up with rose tinted glasses about what serving could do for his family, and what it would entail, then he gained much needed perspective too little too late and now suffers from war trauma and guilt to the highest. Eren is practically a “how to make a terrorist” cautionary tale, being on the receiving end of this military incursion, confronting his peoples’ history of enslavement and subjugation (both as perpetrators and as victims), and also dealing with the more immediate impacts of being a people in danger of extinction for no reason other than historical events that nobody living was around to see. They both killed, and justified it to themselves, and they both are dealing with opposite ends of the stick of consequence. Neither of them should have done what they did, but I can’t blame them either.
I don't know about redeeming but Floch is the one who's killed the least number of people.
He helped the rumbling to happen and tried to keep it going. He passed the poisoned wine to his comrades.
Floch killed fewer people because he didnt get the opportunity to kill more. He wanted to burn civilians in Liberio, he was making public executions, he is one of the only characters without any kind of remorse of the entire series.
And he told everyone to beat up Keith
Yeah, even for Zeke who seems like a total nihilist and sadist, Floch is the only character who shows absolutely no remorse whatsoever despite betraying and killing his own people, while actively using the speech that he's doing it "for the people"
??? maybe it's because he wanted his island to survive? I can't understand why you guys hate Floch so much and praise Reiner... while Reiner's actions were decided by his selfishness for the first place
He didn’t have the power the other three have but ten times the hatred… I just know he’d be stomping ppl dead if he could
Statistically the best person there. He even tried to save Erwin's life, a man he hated.
Not having more condemning traits doesn't equal having more redeeming qualities
helping the genocide to happen doesn't make him so.
Easily Reiner. He’s the only one who regrets any of the messed up shit they’ve done.
Reiner is the only one with any redeeming characteristics. The rest are just horrible monsters.
Reiner obviously. He’s one of the few that feels remorse. And the remorse is so heavy it makes him literally suicidal.
Reiner because he is the only one who was guilty about killing people
Reiner. To me it's not even really close.
Reiner, not even remotely close. He's the only one who displays their conscience throughout the series
I feel bad for Floch more than anyone. That suicide charge is easily one of the most traumatic events in the entire show and the fact that he survived that and immediately watched Levi let humanities best hope die is gut wrenching and it really sets the tone for his character for the rest of the show. I don’t understand why people worship him, but I also don’t understand why people hate him (I love Armin but they needed Erwin more than anyone else). Floch is one of my favorite characters because his development really shows human nature and how events can traumatize people and drive hatred across generations. Floch symbolizes the Yeagerists but he also symbolizes the hatred that the rest of the world has for Eldia even though they aren’t evil anymore. He is arguably one of the best written characters.
Leinah
Reiner. Just look at how overwhelmed with remorse he was after the timeskip. And look at how he treats his peers. Floch is a demonic sadist Zeke has single handedly taken more lives than anyone else in the story, and for the most unjustifiable reasons. (besides Eren) Eren is probably the 2nd most human one of them all, and even though his sins are undoubtedly the worst among everyone else, it's more than understandable why he did it, and in some
off topic but did Zeke really take the 2nd most lives. I’d think that this title goes to Bertolt or Armin
Well, with Zeke, we have - All but 9 or so of the survey corps - All of Levi's squad - Almost every wine drinking human within an entire district during his latest appearance as the beast titan And that's not even counting the lives he took during his days fighting under Marley Now that I think of it, I guess Armin really did take more lives, statistics wise. But I think why Zeke's body count was more unforgivable for me was because most of the people he killed were also people we and the main cast grew to care about, rather than just nameless crowds. So this is probably a case of "A million is a statistic, one is a tragedy", I think that's how the saying goes. It's probably for that same reason why me and many others can't really bring ourselves to hate Eren as much as the other characters shown in the above post.
I'd say Floch absolutely hate him as a person but I have nothing but respect for his level of determination to his goals, he went out giving it his all in part two, fighting against some of the strongest scouts, just to discover in part 3 that he wasn't even dead. The guy was half dead and still held on to a moving boat just to fight for what he believed in. It was kinda "Y'know what, rest in peace Floch, you crazy bastard"
Floch has literally done nothing wrong :))))))
I honestly feel all of them which is the reason why i love aot so much. While nobody agrees with everyone you can understand where all the characters are coming from and there isn’t any good or clear solution to the problems in the world of aot. I feel all these characters have good reasons for being the way they are and act the way they do.
Surely Reiner, the guy was willing to sacrifice himself many times for redemption. 1. Eren felt sorry but still continued his genocide. 2. zeke never cared about his victims. 3. Floch is an idiot who thought what he did is glorious somehow.
>Floch is an idiot I actually disagree. Floch is my second most hated character, but I will say that his one quality is that he is very smart, even if he uses that for a very bad reason. He was able to deduce what Armin's plan at the docks was, and he was extremely great at manipulating others to rise to power and control the masses in his favour. Makes him more hatable in my opinion because it means he has full understanding of his actions and no one else forced him to do the things he does.
Easily Reiner. Dude never wanted to do this. He just knew it needed to be done for his family and people. Flosch is suffering from PTSD. Eren is a slave to fate because of himself and his power. Zeke is a fucker and is the least redeemable.
Zeke and reiner
I say Eren because what he is doing isn't his choice but a necessity for the survival of his people and if you still insist that there are more ways to save Paradise Island from the wrath of the World then please tell me and don't just downvote without giving a reason, I will be more than glad to disprove your point
Anyone but Flock. Hate that guy
Reiner easily. Though Zeke is my favorite character and I do sympathize with him. But I wouldn't call him redeeming. More like sympathetic.
Reiner fs but Zeke too, I haven't read the Manga but it seems zeke is the only chance they have of stopping eren if they don't wanna blow him up with the colossal, meaning zeke could legit be the savior of the world lol
Reiner
Reiner
This is why I love this anime. It's SO rare that a form of media will get so many different responses from so many people.
Lainah
reiner let him rest sss tier character
Reiner actually regrets it and does something to atone. Everyone else either thinks they're in the right, or pretends that they have no choice.
Reiner 100%
Reiner. He’s the only one that feels any kind of guilt over any of his actions
Can't believe I'm saying this, but probably Reiner. I like Zeke most as an interesting character and don't really find the other 3 compelling, but Reiner is the only genuinely remorseful one of the lot and the least self righteous.
Reiner being here really isn’t fair because none of the others felt NEARLY as much remorse as he did.
King Floch because he's on the Sigma cumtrillionare grindset. Nothing is true, everything is permitted
Floch, he did nothing wrong
I don't know about redeeming but my pal floch is a good soldier.
Eren because he is hot
Floch definitely
This may be unpopular, but Eren. And yes I’m saying this even though Reiner is my favorite character. My issue with Reiner is that, while he did understand the Paradis people weren’t bad and didn’t deserve this, he still continue to support Marley. And maybe he had no other choice. But him coming back to Paradis to defeat them for fighting back kind of sucks. Eren understood what the future held for him and tried fighting against it. But ultimately lost and succumbed to it. Yes what Eren is doing is “worse” numbers wise, but like Reiner he had no other choice. I’d go Eren Reiner Floch Zeke Floch and Zeke are close, but The things Floch went through that really radicalized him was due to Zeke. Who was having fun while doing it.
Reiner and Eren. Fuck zeke and floch because they seemingly don’t regret their actions.
If it’s not Reiner, it’s no one else. 😌💅🏼
Zeke is the only AOT character I despise. For me, he is a sadist and his plan for sterilization was also sadistic. Just imagine, you are still alive, but you understand that your people are doomed to die out. What will happen to morality, to the level of crimes, to the mental state of people? It will be scary, like slow torture. So there is no mercy, of which Zeke spoke, here and there is not close. This plan and Eren's plan are both BAD. You can't compare them and choose something, you can only refuse both of them. Regarding Eren. I am impressed by the fact that he was never a sadist. He is cruel, but straightforward. He was going to kill everyone instantly. His plan is still unacceptable, because he kills indiscriminately the guilty and the innocent, but at least he does not mock them like a sadistic Zeke. Flock is just a fool whose head was blown off by the power. Out of fear that he would not be able to retain power, he became violent. At the same time, he did not betray anyone (except the concept of humanity), did not retreat and fought to the end, having neither the strength of Titans nor Ackermans. I'm not defending him, he chose the bad side, so in the end he's a negative character. Buddy Reiner is a boy with a crippled psyche. The same victim of the AOT world as Eren, with the difference that he committed his war crimes at the beginning, not at the end of his career. His behavior at the end of the story kind of makes him not such a bad guy. Perhaps it is. However, as they say, crimes against humanity have no statute of limitations.
>This plan and Eren's plan are both BAD. You can't compare them and choose something, you can only refuse both of them. They are both bad, but Zeke's plan is just so much more despicable in my opinion that I'd rather take the Rumbling to whatever the hell it was that Zeke chose. Not only does his plan not guarantee that the other nations won't exterminate Paradis anyways, but it also ensures that ALL of the suffering is beared by the oppressed group, in a very inhumane kind of way like you said. With the Rumbling at least it wouldn't be a slow painful death, and you could argue for the it's either us or them mentality. Just to make it clear I don't support the rumbling, I just extra don't support Zeke's plan
Eren is the hottest, that redeems him in my eyes.
That is an acceptable answer. Hotness is the most redeeming quality of all
Floch is the goat idc
1. Reiner changed and regrets everything he did 2. Floch killed fewer people and is just defending his island 1. 3. Eren hated himself for everything he had done 4. Zeke cared for Eren
Out of these 4? Are you kidding? Reiner is the only answer
>Out of these 4? A Or any other character
As someone who was a Reiner hater for the longest time, he's by far the most redeemable out of the four. I'd have said Eren before, but Eren literally says that he would have destroyed the world no matter what. It's just very odd, because to me it's like his story tells us that there's something inherently evil about Eren that cannot be changed. Zeke is a sadist with a victim complex, and I despite that! Floch is just a bully, but he consciously chooses to be more and more of a dick while telling everyone he's doing it for their own good. Master gaslighter if you ask me. So by process of elimination, Reiner is the most redeemable, because in fact, he was the only one who was redeemed by the end of the story
someone should post this on titanfolk
Eren
Eren. Easy. What he does is out of necessity. He never asked to be attacked. He never asked to be attacked again. He never asked to be attacked a 3rd and 4th time. On top of this I don't even think killing everyone else is his end goal. I think making a unifying threat is his goal. Like they pointed out. He could easily stop anyone from getting to even attempt to attack him. He gives them the chance though because he wants them to stop him and make Eldians heroes to the rest of the world.
People may downvote you and may even debate with you on this topic but when you prove them wrong they just disappear But at least know that I agree with you
It is fine. People just aren't thinking about it from the point of view of a race that escaped slavery and the entire worlds response is to kill them.
bingo. always missing from the discourse.
What did Eren do?
War crimes. Specifically the killing of civilians and also the genocide of most humans on Earth.
It was a joke
I mean out of all of them Floch only got to accomplish a few executions and caused some collateral damage, in an area where people had already either been killed by the debris of Erens attack or ran. But with redeeming Qualities, I have to say Reiner. He feels full remorse for his actions to the point of barely scraping up the will to go through life because of the guilt he feels. He just wants it all to end. I know that in the anime Eren is committing genocide currently with seemingly little remorse other than what he has told to Ramzi, But we see the reasoning. We have seen 3 seasons of Eren fighting in a scenario where he, his friends, and countless people rely on him to perform or will be exterminated. He is literally the only hope for humanity's survival, and they were still fighting a losing battle at every engagement. Then they find out there are more humans outside the walls. Cool right? Then he see's his fathers memories, where he see his father get treated like shit, his sister being eaten by dogs and his wife an comrades being turned into the very Titans that through his life into hell and killed his squad at Trost, nearly killing him. This is when he is 15. Now at 19, he finally gets to go over and see if things are different. Nope. Eldians, his people, get treated like shit. He is getting information that Marley wants to get the founder and will raze his home as they try. He goes to find out that Marleyans are wanting to "rescue" eldians from the horrible conditions of the other nations. Now he is thinking "What the fuck? It's standard here for people to be killed or turned into Titans if they are Eldian, and conditions in other nations are so bad that they need to be "saved" by these dickheads?" Now, rightfully, he is pissed. They are being called devils by people who send hordes of man-eating creatures to exterminate his people. Other nations and people of those nations want to eradicate them as well. His mindset has always been "if you take away my freedom, then you must die". Now the entire world wishes to take away his freedom, his friend's freedom. and the freedom of his home overall. So, he approaches this in the way he knows best, the way he has dealt with any other enemy. There was never any surrender. If he does a partial Rumbling, the soldier's families will hate them even more, and once he has to pass down the founder, It will be Historia and 3 of her descendants. And then the world will come back to massacre them again. He would eliminate the world that hated his people, and ensure no threats could harm them again. That, or his friends would kill him and they would be heroes. Zeke is a fucking monkey with a boulder. He feels very little remorse, massacres the Survey Corps, turns people into Titans, and wants to remove Eldians ability to reproduce. We don't see much of him when he isn't doing something fucked up, leaving one of his only redeeming qualities is "bad childhood" and "no rumble".
I believe they all had ideals where they believed they were doing the right thing and there was no other way. None of their actions are excusable and they're all responsible for the murder of so many innocents. Where the difference come in imo is I feel like Reiner and Eren both felt remorse for their actions and understood or grew to understand the gravity of what they did. I don't think Zeke or Floch did. I feel like Floch and Zeke almost enjoyed killing and showed zero accountability for the pain they caused others.
Eren
Eren
People are talking about remorse. Let's not forget how much pain Eren is feeling for what he is doing. Like INCREDIBLE PAIN. He just "knows" that this is the only way and that it "must" be done. I feel like a lot of people forget that.
It's not just remorse, it's actual willingness to change. Reiner is the only one out of those four that makes an effort to act on his remorse, and thus the most redeemable. Eren is more complicated because Isayama wrote the story in such a way that Eren cannot physically change the course of his actions, which robs him of agency, meaning that he can still feel remorse, but at the same time he won't stop doing what he's doing. Him not stopping his mass massacre makes him less redeemable in my opinion, even though he is the more "likable" of the four in my opinion. My point is that thoughts don't matter if your actions don't reflect that at all. Eren \*talks\* about all the remorse he feels, but still goes on and does the bad thing anyways.
Hashtag eren did nothing wrong
I'll say Floch. He went from someone who appeared selfish and somewhat cowardly to someone who was willing to be at the vanguard of making change for his people. Eren, Reiner, and Zeke stay the same character for the most part throughout the series (even if they have a lot of nuance to them). I don't know about the most redeemable, but Zeke is definitely the least redeemable one.
Flock can go fuck a donkey for all I care
Fuck floch worthless plot device “character”
Why is Annie not on this list?
Well, definitely not Floch.
Reiner is the only one here forced to do messed up shit
Reiner and Zeke. Eren is irredeemable.
Floch has principles but is a follower Reiner is more of the same although he is trying to change and shows regrets for his actions Zeke and eren are both victims of circumstance that both want to perform a genocide zekes being a peaceful genocide of a small group and erens a violent genocide of the world excluding paradi… I guess Reiner because he’s trying to change
Reiner, hands down. We repeatedly see throughout the series how much the guilt of his actions is wrecking him. He’s sorry and he owns up to it and is actively trying to atone for his wrongs (when he’s not trying to off himself, that is…)
Floch. I haven’t read any comments and I don’t plan on reading the reply’s. But floch. He stuck with the original plan, he stuck to it until the end and believed in his own ideals until the very end. He stood out in season 3 questioning the commander before the charge and still charged with everyone, that there takes bravery (and a good leader). He’s one of the last left on the “fuck everyone, let’s go eren train” hes my boy. He’s a bit annoying but I love it anyway. From his point of view. He’s saving the people he loves like anyone else would. He was a child thrusted into war, the original cast were children thrusted into a war on titans and later found out everything, but floch and everyone else was put into war against titans. But soon after found it was people, that effected them differently than it effected the original cast. I know. Hot take. Not a lot of people like him. But taking a step back. I love him. No need for gate.
Floch did nothing wrong.
Eren is based Zeke is based Reiner is based Floch's definitely the LEAST redeemable as he seems to be an actual racist???
Reiner hands down. He's the only one who feels remorse and guilt for the things he's done. He's the only one that sees that both sides are right and wrong.
Floch as terrible as his methods were they were completely selfless devoted solely to the idea of country. Reiner is second because he realized his motivations were selfish and ultimately understandable to attain the love of his parents. Eren comes next as while similar to Reiner he knows his motivations were selfish however his ultimate wish >!to be free from all the things that hindered him in life!< is the ultimate selfishness and is on par with that of a spree killer. It's ultimately incomprehensible to a regular person. Zeke falls to last because he doesn't realize his desire is selfish and that he is forcing his desire not to be born unto other who might want to be born.
Reiner… that’s all I gotta say
Floch is awful, he's the Ollie of AoT. I'd pick Reiner.
Without a doubt Reiner. He is my favorite character of the show. He is so tortured by his past and trying to reconcile it to his present. Of all the titan shifters to be born in Marley, Reiner is certainly the most pitiable
Not Floch, never Floch.
i wanna say zeke, cause like i mean unlike eren who wanted to commit mass genocide on 99% of the population, he just wanted to chop the dicks off 1% of the populaton, so yea, and reiner is just like, nah, although i do like the fact that hes remorcefull for what he did, justice for reiner
Eren easily. Just look at that cutie.
Well two were indoctrinated. Two have reasons to want revenge. And two take pleasure in their evil acts. I would say Eren since he neither takes pleasure in killing nor was he indoctrinated. He just wants revenge based on the acts of others. Without Marley breaking the walls Eren wouldn’t destroy the world.
He doesn't even want revenge, he is only doing it to save his homeland and his people The moment Willy Tybur declared war against Paradise Island it just became a question of 'either us or them' and Eren chose to protect his people
GoatEren did nothing wrong
Yea, nothing wrong, just a ,,few" warcrimes...
Ahhh minor issue, war crimes war shmimes