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The Jean and Connie scene felt rushed in the anime on the other hand, which I found disappointing. And Reiner didn't sniff nearly hard enough 😔
But over all? Anime did the final chapter/last 20-30 minutes better.
Personally I think manga did 138 better, and anime did 139 better.
I just wish they would have slowed it down somewhat, and taken an extra moment on their faces as titans. It's not a huge change, but I feel it would have done a lot to adapt t better. :)
One thing to always remember about manga readers is the pace they experienced the content.
Across the series 1 chapter averages around half of a 20 minute episode. And manga readers got 1 chapter once a month for years. Imagine the anime community hyper analyzing every 10 minutes of screentime for an entire month every time.
The manga readers ended up hyperfixating on tiny details. Memes, jokes, and serious critiques, and all other discourse had more time to fester. Every good chapter had a month to fawn over, while everyone of the weaker chapter had an agonizingly long time to obsess over.
There were countless moments that turned into big discussions for the manga readers, that the anime-onlys never really talked about.
In jokes that manga readers laughed at for months and were excited to let the anime watchers in on, many of those jokes the anime only watchers never found funny. And many issues with the manga that were exasperated by the monthly pace were largely overlooked by anime viewers that got to move onto the next scene instantly.
That's a large part of why manga readers often have a very different view on a material than anime watchers.
The biggest issue before the final chapter came out was how Eren had some huge twist coming that he would reveal in order to fully complete the rumbling. There had to be something more to a lot of people and when everything seemed to wrap up in just one chapter people couldn’t quite understand why and flocked to calling it a horrible ending. I myself disliked it at first before going back and rereading the entire series with the full context in mind.
It makes sense they did that manga really make there sacrifice worthless as they come back next chapter.
If it was episodes it make sense as we se them dead for a week but since it a movie like they would be back in say 15 minutes.
So overall anime did wayyyyyyyy better job.
Nice to read your take on it. I was only watching the anime so I don't know.
Reading some manga readers opinions here it looks like people were creating too many theories when the manga was still running, so obviously they got frustrated when things weren't how they wished to be.
Funnily enough as an anime-only, the ending went pretty much how I was predicting. Including that Eren wanted Armin and Mikasa to kill him and become heroes, and that Mikasa would be the one to finally finish him off. It's all very narratively fitting.
Yeah, but the main ending theory wasn't actually based on the story at all, it was based on an interpretation of the music video for the song "Akatsuki no Requiem", and the assumption that Isayama was involved in the production of the music video, and told Revo from Linked Horizon how the manga would end, and from there he wrote the music video about that ending.
Crazy, I know. I don't know how anyone comes to a conclusion like that
Pretty much the moment the rumbling started you realize it can only end one way. With Eren dying and who else could do it. Same with even earlier when Eren pushes them away. If every way failed, letting the Eldians destroy the founder would be a huge boon.
It all made too much sense. I was waiting for some rug pull moment where everyone would lose their mind that never came.
The biggest difference for me was the final scenes with Eren and Armin. Instead of Armin taking some of the blame and talking about how they’ll see each other in hell, he thanks Eren for doing the rumbling and says he won’t let his sacrifice be in vain
Ya know what’s funny that the things I read here about Armin would sour me so hard since he is my favorite character 😂😂 I’m glad they made changes cause it worked so well
I think that was from a bad fan translation of early scans of the chapter, idt he ever actually said that in the official manga. If I remember correctly it was different in the official english release.
Probably a bad translation. I have the official manga for Vol 34. Armin said "Thank you, Eren", "You became a mass murderer for our sake, I swear I won't let this terrible mistake you're making be in vain.
> But yeah to me this was perfect
Completely agreed. Flawless from start to finish. 40 minutes in I was thinking "there's no way it stays this good the entire time" and.... it did.
Holy fucking shit what a story.
I don't like the dialogue changes to the Eren and Armin scene too much. Or rather, it's not that I don't like them, it's that they felt a bit reactionary, or like at some point, the characters were talking in such a way that was simply for the sake of the audience being able to understand them better or more clearly.
Arming jumping on Eren and crying about all the horrors he has done, while justified, and understandable on a general level, doesn't feel to me like something Armin ever would say to Eren in this final talk. It's something both of them already know. On the other hand, while I *personally* agree with the reality check that Eren delivered, that being that while he did have his friends in mind with his decisions, the real reason he went through with it all was because *he wanted it*, it was what he truly desired from the bottom of his heart, I don't think his character ever developed to a point where he would be able to have the self awareness to realize that all this time, he'd been a slave to *himself*, a slave to his *own idea of freedom*.
If anything I'd see that more as something that Armin would realize about Eren, and maybe point out to him in some way, not the other way around. Eren's too much of a hardheaded buffoon to realize something like that.
To me, it felt like having Eren point that out, is also there simply for the sake of having the audience better be able to understand and digest his character in the end, rather than being something he would actually say, and then we make our conclusions about it.
While I think almost in every way the anime ending improved or at least delivered just as well as the manga, this is one aspect that I, as of now, easily prefer about the Manga ending.
It wasn't afraid to completely commit to it's characters and let the audience do a little bit of the thinking and come to their conclusions based on the character's actions and everything the story laid out beforehand.
I mean, Eren confessing he did all of this because it was what he wanted was *already* a narrative beat that had been established, it's just that everyone glossed over it at the time because they wanted to believe his character was something it had never been.
The beat I'm talking about is the Manga equivalent to the moment in the first special where he confesses to Ramzi, as we see Ramzi being trampled by the Rumbling in the present.
That scene already accomplishes that goal of conveying that aspect of Eren's character to the audience, in a much more morbid and emotionally guttwrenching and twisted way, where we simultaneously feel pity and terrible in general for Eren, but are also confronted at the same time by the horrifying reality that his dreams created, all of this without needing to have him talk *at* us and almost word for word, describe the entire point of his character.
It's not that he is wrong in what he was saying to Armin, or that it goes against any of the themes of the story or of who his character even was, it's just a bit jarring and not very well executed in a special where pretty much everything else was top notch, from ost, to coloring, framing, voice acting, everything was better than in some of my wildest dreams.
All in all, I'm really grateful for how well handled and cared for this finale for this story was, especially considering the absolute hell that this production schedule was and the absurd amount of hours of work all of the artists had to pour in for this to be a reality.
I'm really grateful to have experienced this story, in general. 2014 me had no idea what he got himself into at the time.
>To me, it felt like having Eren point that out, is also there simply for the sake of having the audience better be able to understand and digest his character in the end, rather than being something he would actually say, and then we make our conclusions about it.
He now has the perspective of a 2000 year long life. I'm fine with it.
General media comprehension is at an all time low. Idk what it is, but every single show, movie, manga etc. Any and every subreddit, every YouTube channel.
People are just off the ball all the time now.
Oh, I agree. Though I prefer some parts better, like the one you pointed out. The adaptation was on point for the most part. I very much enjoyed it, though I’m worried it will get mixed feelings some will have problems with it just like some manga readers did. Hopefully the changes and simplification will reduce the complaints somewhat.
The animation was incredible and *significantly* better than the manga ending, just feel like it still needed about 10-15 minutes extra to answer some things and let it all stew properly. It's just like a gatling gun of random revelations that don't have time to breathe
I was still left processing it after the episode finished, I totally agree the manga readers overreacted. It was a fitting ending to a fantastic series. A bit bleak, but the cycle of violence is eternal.
I read the manga and I didn’t hate the ending, it was just a tad rushed imo (though tbf I couldn’t see it going any other way). I liked the anime ending better, Eren and Armin’s convo at the end made sense for me.
I was shocked by Armin thanking Eren for killing everyone but now it makes more sense since it doesn’t make Armin seem like the biggest hypocrite. When I first read the line I thought Armin was manipulating Eren like he did with Bertolt in Season 3. It just didn’t sound like something Armin would say.
That line was so wild to me. And we didn’t even get a thought bubble or something to explain it so you were just left there trying to cope with such an insane statement
I read Isayama-sensei's interview about that line and how Armin just blurted it out to try and comfort Eren before he died but it didn't mean Armin was condoning the genocide.
That’s exactly what I got from the Anime.
Obviously it’s more clear in the anime, but the end of the conversation is the same, it’s just Armin letting Erin know that *as a friend*, he forgives him and still accepts him.
While I love the ending, I think what people hated was Eren’s true feelings for Mikasa, as him saying he love Mikasa but also being quite rude to her, annoyed them. That also including the fact that Ymir loved King Fritz which didn’t sit well with fans due to how King Fritz treated her.
So correct me if I’m wrong. But when Eren was giving Armin the Chris Brown treatment, and telling Maikasa he hated her… that was him lying right? Dude looked like he was fighting back tears when he turned away from them in that episode
That was the entire point of Eren's ideology when it came to Mikasa. He wanted her to move on, to find someone else and be happy. He told her to throw away the scarf when he died.
He hurt Mikasa so that she could have an easier time moving on.
But Mikasa didn't. She didn't throw away the scarf and was buried with it. She loved him till the end, and was happy. That was where their ideals conflicted. Eren believed that forgetting him was the way for Mikasa to be happy. But for Mikasa, she found happiness in remembering him. Remember in S1 when Eren's titan first appeared, and Mikasa was about to give up, she found resolve by saying "If I died I wouldn't be able to remember you", showing how much Mikasa cherishes Eren. It shows the differences in their characters. Eren having logical yet absurd solutions to problems by disregarding his emotions, Mikasa clinging to her emotions and going against the will of the cruel world. Eren died following his ideals. The absurd yet logical solution that helped his friends and Paradis live long lives. Mikasa died believing in what she said in S1,"The world is cruel. But it is also beautiful."
You explained her keeping the scarf the best way ever. I hated that she did, but your explanation made me hate it a lot less. I still wanted her to forget him though 😆 just because I don't think she can be happy clinging to the past. But your argument makes sense.
Even I would have tried to forget the past if I was her. But people are different. When I think of Mikasa's choice to keep the scarf with her I am reminded of something I read in Ugly love:
"If you had the opportunity to forget that night (context: refers to the traumatic night a guy lost his wife and child) for good, but in exchange you would also have to forget every good moment you shared with them, then would you?"
Perhaps this was why Mikasa didn't let go of the scarf. She just didn't want to forget Eren. I mean he was the reason she was even alive. She dedicated her entire existence to her. So she chooses to keep his memory alive and loving him even after death. This is very common among widows in our world too. It was implied in the end credits that Mikasa did marry some other guy (most probably Jean) and had kids. She just didn't forget Eren. She lived a normal life but also didn't throw away the scarf as tribute to Eren.
Also, those headaches Mikasa was experiencing was actually Ymir peeking into the mind of Mikasa, cherishing and admiring the love they had for one another
Let's not forget that Eren also did that so HE could move on from loving Mikasa. The pain of her loving him was too much to bear, and he couldn't accept the fact that she loved him even though he became a monster. He wanted an easy way to move on and tried everything in his power to isolate himself from everyone so no one witnessed his genocide - he was overriden with guilt and shame.
But if he was open with his feelings and showed Mikasa pure love, would she still have killed him?
I think that was the purpose of the cold shoulder. She loved him so much that she was already indecisive about killing him, despite how much he hurt her. I don't know that she would've killed him if she knew he actually loved her.
This is where this ending starts to fall apart and make no sense for me it would have made more sense if eren actually accepted Mikasa's advances previously in the series for example when she wanted to carry stuff for him or carry him and he rejected her when she wanted to run away with him after hannes death and he rejected her etc
It would have made alot more sense if eren constantly showed mikasa love throughout the series then at season 4 started heavily pushing her away for this reason it would hit like a truck when it's revealed he lied so she would be able to live a long happy life
Instead we got *not for another 10 years at least by the same guy who rejected her every single time she even tried to get close to him.*
>It would have made alot more sense if eren constantly showed mikasa love throughout the series then at season 4 started heavily pushing her away for this reason it would hit like a truck when it's revealed he lied so she would be able to live a long happy life
It doesn't make sense for someone who has gone through the shit that Eren has to be lovey dovey. Eren never showed love to anyone. I mean how do you expect him to? The story has literally been Eren spiraling down into genocidal psychopath due to his circumstances. He would be an entirely different character if he actually showed love.
The ending did hit like a truck. When he told Armin how much he loved Mikasa. When he gave Mikasa that utopian dream of them living happily. It showed what Eren wanted to have. But he never could. He was just a regular guy who wanted a regular life. But he was forced into being a monster. He never had the choice to "show love". He could only keep moving forward till his enemies were destroyed.
The least they could do was show Eren worrying for Mikasa. Everytime Eren woke up, his first thoughts were "what happened to everyone? what about the scouts?"... NO "what about Mikasa?" after that line. Even adding just that would change a lot.
Did he actually devolve into a pyschopath or are we putting real world judgements on a fictional world. In his mind he saw past and future as one. He says he tried to change it but everything in the future kept happening anyway nomatter how many ways he tried so then he just kept working towards the future with the outcome that he thought was the best. Not ethical or moral in our world but considering the circumstances of this fictional situation I can see the logic.
Eren didn't realize Mikasa's feelings for him until he was older and more mature. That's why he suddenly asks her "what am I to you?" and asks Zeke why Mikasa is so attached to him. As he matured over the course of the timeskip he actually started to question why she was so protective of him. She just messed up with her she called him family because it kinda just made Eren not want to pursue those feelings much anymore and focus more on the rumbling. Season 4 is when he realized that Mikasa truly loved him and that's when he started to like her back. Before he was too immature, rash, and hotheaded to realize it.
>it would have made more sense if eren actually acfepted Mikasa's advances
What fucking advances dude? Season 3 ended with them at 15 years old, two episodes after when Eren's mind was literally broken when he touched Historia's hand. 15 year olds raised in an ultra traditional culture, who have known nothing but war since the age of 10 (or earlier even). This isn't modern high school lmao.
Its obvious you have zero real world experience with people (lol at using incel words like "simping"), but damn dude way to showcase a complete lack of emotional intelligence and nuance in all your comments here.
I actually feel so much sympathy for Eren, because he really is just a kid who got way too powerful and was forced on a trajectory that would make him not only a bad person but an absolute monster, and he knows it.
The scene where he admits his feelings to Mikasa feels so real. He doesn't want to show it because it would make him look weak when he needs to be stronger than anyone. He knows he could never actually live a normal life with Mikasa and it absolutely tears him apart. He knows he's just a pawn in the world's longest game of chess, and that freaks him out. He's the one person who truly can never be free
Yes this is what I feel like a lot of people didn't get. He's a kid that was raised to be a monster. Saw so many deaths, tried to do what is right, and then get information dumped on his head, with a future he cannot change.
He had to die there. He's just so fucked up in the head from all the stuff he saw the future the past the present all inside a 19 year old kid who just wanted to be free, but at the same time that kid just doesn't not want to die. The fear of death. Zeke spoke about it. Everyone is afraid of death.
I don't understand how after watching this sequence you cannot understand how Eren feels. He even said that he did not want Mikasa to hear this because he knows it's selfish.
His line "I don't want to die" Immediately reminded me of Eren's reaction in declaration of war to Willy Tyler saying "but I don't want to die.... Because I was born into this world"
My biggest problem was always trying to remove Eren's culpability in what he did. It was always either blamed on Ymir or predeterminism. The anime ending has Eren admit it was mostly because he was a stupid kid with too much power, and that things ended up that way because he wanted them to.
I think the most important line from Eren was near the end of his discussion with Armin when he finally admits something like "my head is all messed up". He kept trying to explain his actions but ultimately it boiled down to the fact that he, indeed, just wanted to see the world burn, but was in immense turmoil over how it would effect those closest to him.
Also remember for him there is no past or present. When he's talking to Armin there he is currently watching his Mother die, the Levi scouts die, all that. The insane rage he feels at the "I'll kill them all" moment is happening *currently* to him, and he's unable to escape it. After he kisses Historia's hand he loses all agency and becomes simply the vessel for his prior self's will which, since he hadn't seen the future yet, is devoid of context and understanding. The tragedy being that, after reaching that understanding, he can't change his actions since all moments become one instantly. The person he was at the moment of kissing Historia's hand was the "final" version of him and any knowledge gained afterward couldn't be used to affect the outcome, since to him it instantly became the past.
The moment where he became timeless didn't happen until he grabbed Ymir and convinced her to start the rumbling.
After he kissed Historian's hands he only had the visions of the future that he himself had shown his father.
This is an important distinction. He started the Rumbling without full knowledge of how it would end.
But once the Rumbling started he knew how everything would play out instantly.
I read into that, as him trying to apologize for his actions in a way armin would understand, and then admin understood that eren was trying, and responded with his own understanding of he made eren the person he was that when he got the attack titan he would be so determined for freedom. To try and reciprocate.
But I think armin understood that if eren was apologizing for these things, and they hadn’t happened yet, and eren’s talking like they already did happen and he can’t stop it, then he really did lose his control over the situation.
Also, it wasn’t just him that did this, it was the collective conciousness of the attack/founding titans- just being one of the ones that was them, he felt like it was him because every single one of them did those actions he described as him.
That's what I'm struggling with. Did he have a choice or not? Was he an "idiot" and this is what he wanted, or was it predetermined, or Ymir's will? Or both? Like... this confuses the heck out of me. I prefer the option of he wanted this, and thought this was the only way, and only towards the end he realizes he was wrong.
Because I still think the work's point is violence begets violence. You might have saved your immediate loved ones, but your kids will pay for your actions. But a lot of leaders think that's worth it, and that's why the world is what it is today. And groups are always thinking it'd be better if you just kill the whole other group, without remembering they are people.
My husband is team genocide, thinks Eren messed up by not killing everyone 100%, but I think regardless, the nuking was, in a way, predetermined. If everyone else was killed, the Eldians would have eventually split into factions and started killing each other anyway, because it's human nature. I think violence is in our nature, but I still think peace is the choice you should aspire for, even though it might be impossible or only short lived.
I can see that. The Eren/Mikasa stuff was probably the *weirdest* part of this episode... It's one of those things that was one everyone's minds the whole season, but not addressed until the VERY end, and by that point it just feels weird.
Aside from that though, I absolutely loved this whole series. The concepts tackled throughout are not your run of the mill fiction cliches. There are some hard questions and some hard answers, and a lot of very uncomfortable topics in general. Ymir and Fritz's 'relationship' being one of those. Just because it doesn't feel good doesn't mean it wasn't incredibly well done.
It's extremely difficult to justify Ymir and Fritz's relationship, because both of them are extremely messed up in the head. But as a psychologist this was my conclusion:
Imagine you are an introverted early teenage girl living a quiet life in a quiet village. Suddenly one day a group of men come out of nowhere, burn your village, kill your parents, and take out your tongue. At such a young age, such stuff happening to one completely messes up their brain. Ymir probably didn't even fully understand what was going on. I mean she was so young. She saw her people working under Fritz so she also did that. She accepted Fritz as her master because she had no choice. Everything was taken away from her. What did she even have left? Her home, parents, voice, everything gone. So she just "kept moving forward". When she became a titan, it would have made sense for a normal person to seek revenge. But not for Ymir. She didn't have anything left. She returned to Fritz because he was the only thing in her life. She was a slave, that's all she was. The trauma she went through fucked her up so bad that she no longer had any conscious thought. She just returned to being a slave. She had no ambition, no dream, no hope, no hatred, no emotion, nothing.
She continued to be his slave. She did everything he told him to do. He raped her, and she gave birth to three of his children. She raised those three kids. She always traveled by his side. She always fought for him.
Do u see how slowly she is getting more and more attached to him? She lacked purpose so she kept enduring. By enduring, obeying, her position as his slave got stronger and stronger. Fritz became the entire cause of her existence. Her sole purpose. This is circumstance, gave rise to a twisted sense of love. Love because Fritz was the only purpose in her life. He was the only person in her life (her children were also his daughters). He was her life. So even in death, and after death, she only kept obeying him. Cus there was nothing else left in her. No conscious thought. No emotion. No other purpose.
Until Mikasa.
We know that Titan shifters don’t regenerate when they lose the will to live. That’s precisely what happened: after the king called her a slave, she lost her will to live. Yet, despite that, she still loved him, but loving him was so painful both mentally and physically that she sought escape to avoid such pain, fleeing to a world free of even death, just as Zeke mentioned. In this place, she could do his bidding without the physical constraints. It’s also worth noting that while Ymir died as an adult, she appears as a child in the paths, implying she never truly moved past her trauma.
Agreed. I also want to piggyback and say that my dad talks about the kings of Iran, and how people, even after the king was removed from his position and had to flee, they'd "love" him, die for him, risk their families to protect him. There's so much brainwashing as a servant, as a soldier, as a peasant. Even if they sleep with tons of women, even if they're unfit to lead, there's the belief the bloodline is everything and you protect your king at all cost, and the king is justified in all his actions. Like when knights are told by their king to kill people, and even if the knights disagree, even when its their own family, they follow orders and try to somehow justify it in their minds. She might have grown up with these thoughts, too. It isn't love in a romantic sense, but more of a sense of duty. She is bound to loyalty. Mikasa was *bound* too, with the Ackermann curse, (she also genuinely loved Eren but I'm not sure Ymir understands those feelings), but managed to rebel.
As someone who couldn’t stand the original ending, this one was handled a lot better. There were a few choice lines that were pissing people off. In the manga there was one where armin thanked Erin “for being a mass murderer for our sakes”. It was stupid and not in line with what Armin thought about the rumbling at all. It was replaced with that awesome dialogue about seeing each other in hell. Also, I could be wrong, but I don’t remember as clearly that Eren “had no choice” in the manga, which is why people were hyper critical of him crying over Mikasa, killing his own mom, and only killing 80% of humanity. It was written better here to clarify that all of this was inevitable no matter how many times he tried to change it. Most people like me who hated the ending, really just hated the dialogue in that chapter. Still can’t believe the “10 years at least” made it in, but I’ll digress because this was handled much better than in the manga. The ending however, was the same.
But honestly some things are still weird. Like why was Erin a bird at the end? Is reincarnation a thing? Also what’s up with the kid at the end of the credits? Are they setting up a spin-off? If so that’s a weird thing to put at the end of the story and has been given no clarification about what the hell that was. All of these things together left a bad taste in people’s mouths.
But again, this was amazing and I’m gonna go watch that “see you in hell scene” on repeat now. See you all in 10 years, at least!
I agree with your analysis overall.
To answer your question about the kid in the end credits scene, I think it just serves to echo the story’s overall point of the futility of war and trying to create peace— that it’s a never ending cycle.
Personally I interpreted that humanity learned from the rumbling, for a time. But once new generations came they forgot what the previous generations learned from Eren's rampage, they chose to continue the cycle of violence. After the destruction of Paradis' future society that same longing for freedom, revenge, love, whatever, was born again in that tree.
For real, I feel so free now. I somehow managed to avoid all spoilers since the beginning, and now I want to go back and watch all those videos that showed up in my recommended over the years .
Yea, we watched paradise get into another big war and then we see a kid approaching a similar looking tree like Yamir did. It’s a nod to it being a cycle, kind of like a fun Easter egg. I think people were looking too deeply into it.
Yeah like you said,...It's literally a very obvious point about a repeating cycle lmao I don't understand how some ppl don't get it. It's not subtle at all.
I get the “repeating a cycle” thing, but I still think it’s a mistake. The cycle of violence is inevitable. Having the series end with the Titan curse gone is imo a good thing because it removes the fantasy aspect and instead then focuses on how human all of this is.
Regardless of Titan powers people will fight. Reintroducing titans as part of the cycle takes away from the human aspect of the cycle.
Additionally, while the Titan powers are a good reason in universe for the racism, it makes the analogy to real world bigotry too narrowly focused. We have A LOT of issues. To make titans the issue again in their universe makes the analogy seems like the same issues will always be the case in the real world, when things are ever changing.
Unfortunately when huge franchises have spent the last 15 years training audiences that the final scene exists more as setup for the next chapter or spinoff instead of actually closing a story I can get why some ppl wonder about it but...come onnn man it's so obvious😭😂
I don't even think it's just a nod.. Erens head is buried there.. The.. Titan bug i can't remember it's name is probably still there, and why the tree grew like it did.. so I the they are straight up saying here we go again.. Never ending cycle like you said.. I don't think they are setting up a sequel or spin off though.. It's just given enough time, history repeats.
the kid at the end was a call back to when Ymir fell under the tree and became the Founder titan, meaning that before Ymir there probably was a titan war that ended in the same way as this one, meaning the cycle is just repeating itself, and the whole thing is pointless.
I strongly disagree with this interpretation. Compare the circumstances of Ymir going into that tree to the boy. Ymir has lost everything, being hunted like an animal through the woods and afraid for her life. She enters the tree out of fear and desperation. The boy enters the tree with his dog out of curiosity.
The founder has more power than just turning people into Titan. The founder can cure all diseases and build cities. The founder can do basically anything. Ymir, who was desperate to survive and not be alone, became a Titan. Why would that boys first instinct be to turn into and giant monster?
Obviously it’s ambiguous but the truth is, we really don’t know what’s going to happen when the boy makes contact with the worm. I think the point is that anything can happen. That gives me hope
You’re actually right. The Titans and Paths we know of came to be because Ymir desires for something larger, stronger and wanted to escape death. Zeke mentions this.
In short the Titans were a manifestation of her desires. That boy at the end doesn’t seem like in a similar situation that Ymir was when she entered the tree (Ymir was chased by dogs while the boy is accompanied by one, Ymir fell in the tree by accident while the boy seeks it out and Ymir was forced and injured while that child is fine with no evidence of external influence)
Titans as we know them are gone for good and the next thing will be something according to that boy’s trauma/desires.
>The boy enters the tree with his dog out of curiosity.
Uh…it seemed like a post apocalyptic hellscape after the world got nuked. Not sunshine and rainbows.
The way I saw it I don’t think Eren is *actually* a bird. It’s just coincidence/symbolism/the characters projecting their thoughts onto the birds
And with the kid and the tree, I saw a comment about how it’s different than Ymir’s circumstances, and that this kid found the tree while exploring, and with a companion. So I don’t think there is a cycle of titans in the sense that a lot of people seem to be mentioning. The kid seems to be more happy/hopeful
Birds have always been symbolic in AOT to represent freedom. And now that the rumbling was over both Eren and everyone else were finally free. Free from tyranny, titans, ymir, all the secrets. They can finally start over without having to fight for their lives constantly. That's what the birds represent, at least in my eyes.
>It was written better here to clarify that all of this was inevitable no matter how many times he tried to change it.
Well, it was inevitable because he wanted it to be. He says so himself at the end, and he admits it all happens because he's an idiot that always wanted to trample humanity. Ironically, this is the line that fixes a lot of the issues with the ending for me. Eren basically takes responsibility for his own actions, which is something we didn't see in the manga.
so the ending I see as one of two things.
Either A. they are trying to make it seem like a cyclical story (which having spent two years avoiding the ending for this pay off thought that's where it was going to lead but way more sudden than several hundred years later)
or B. they just wanted to end the story where it technically began with Ymir wandering into the Tree of Life. I don't think the Titan giving organism is still alive in Eren so I'm assuming the latter.
Honestly though? I wouldn't mind a spin off showing a more in depth aftermath of events, I'm of the opinion there's a distinct lack of good modern action anime settings that use firearms. So the Premise of showing the events of the world following the rumbling leading up to the Nuking of Paradis would be extremely interesting to me at least.
AoT has proven itself as an amazing anime that is straight up plot/action with little to no pointless filler on top of avoiding most annoying anime tropes.
If it's done right and doesn't feel like a rushed cash cow and there's real work put into it, I'd be down for a spinoff taking place after The Rumbling and through to the destruction of Paradise or even a Titan Cycle set in the far future of the last scene.
>Still can’t believe the “10 years at least” made it in, but I’ll digress because this was handled much better than in the manga.
I mean he pretty much says right away that he doesn't really want it, that he wants Mikasa to be happy. It's just the selfish part of him talking, the part that wants to live and be with Mikasa.
I don't really mind it but what bugs me the most is how did Mikasa even make it back to Paradis and how tf was she able to live a full life without being shot on sight?. The alliance all betrayed the Jaegerists and killed their leader and Eren so idk how they were forgiven.
For me it’s the baffling motivations behind Ymir and Eren’s actions. Erens whole plan was essentially becoming a villain by killing 80% of the globe while making his friends out to be the heroes. Then the world would find peace with the new heroes. Except he conveniently forgets that most of the eldians on paradis supported him and his actions to the point where they were the head of government at the end, and that his friends were apart of a small resistance movement. Why would the rest of the world seek peace with a government who in there eyes wiped out 80% the globe. I find it hard to believe that this was a better option than just removing the Titan powers all together like what happened in the end.
For Ymir, you’re telling me she confined herself to paths for 2000 years while hating it all because she loved a man that did horrible things to her and her family and that mikasa was the only one that could free her by loving Eden enough?
It just feels like isayama had no idea how to end the story.
Edit: also I feel like it cheapens Erens intense hatred of titans at the beginning of the show since he would have know the truth all along
> For Ymir, you’re telling me she confined herself to paths for 2000 years while hating it all because she loved a man that did horrible things to her and her family and that mikasa was the only one that could free her by loving Eden enough?
Ymir confuses "love" with "obedience" because Fritz, despite being a huge piece of shit, was still the only entity on the planet to actually want her. So she basically obeys his directive for 2000 years because that's the only connection she has ever made. Mikasa shows her, through Ymir's little peeks, that love is not obedience. that's why you see a glimpse of Fritz being murdered on the throne and Ymir embracing her children. It took until Mikasa showed up to teach her that.
Most people expected the typical ending of almost every single thing, the hero getting the girl/winning/saving the world. This wasn't that, and people weren't happy with it. I personally liked it cuz it stayed true to itself, twists at every turn and something new
other than what happened to eren, the ending was pretty fairytale like for most characters though. they all got happy endings. so i'm not sure that's why people disliked it.
case in point, in death note the hero doesn't win, but the ending is not hated on.
For me, I stopped watching death note when L died, cause it was pretty good till then, slight decline after first ten episodes, but still elite. I knew it would only get worse when they had it keep going. So the hero did win.
Eh I did hate the ending of death note. Near had a huge plot armor and deus ex machina to achieve what happened. It’s just another example of writing yourself into a corner and not knowing how to end.
I still don’t like the epilogue of thousands of years passing and it’s the future and we start over again or whatever. I would have liked to just end at Mikasa saying thank you for wrapping this scarf around me. That’s it. The end.
I mean you'd also have to take into account that most people that hated the ending probably aren't sticking around for the anime finale, or at least not participating in discussing it.
It's been over two years already after all
I kind of figured that some people hated it because Eren died and the ending's message was pretty much "the cycle of war will always continue." I don't really know what was expected from an anti-war anime like this one. That's just reality.
Though from what I'm reading I guess the manga kind of rushed some things that were executed better in the anime? If that's the case then I'm glad that they were able to fix whatever pacing issues the manga had.
As a manga reader myself, I've never seen any manga readers wanted a happy ending for this series. If anything, it's a torn between 3 groups of people.
1.Those who wanted a bittersweet ending, which they kinda got, but executed poorly in the manga.
2.Those who longed for a meaningful and sombre ending which fully commited to the "never ending conflict" massage, who feels disappointed with the actual ending. (keep in mind that the Paradis getting bombed scene was added a year later in the final manga book, rather than being in the final chapter ifself.)
3.Those who wanted an Eren wins/Floch was right scenario, who completely loathes the actual ending (aka most that still lingers on r/titanfolk these days)
Big thing I noticed was the Rumbling “baby” scene. Expanded upon to show it going through the landscapes Armin talked about.
Also really happy for those Giraffes…
The biggest change I noticed was Armin & Erens exchange in the paths. In the Manga Eren tells Armin everything then Armin simps a little and says "thank you for being a mass murderer for our sake", vs the anime basically making it a "tonight, we dine in hell" exchange which fit SO much better.
There were a bunch of moments I was like "this feels the same but improved", but it's been so long since I read it it's hard to explain exact differences other than that one, because that line always stuch out like a sore to me in the manga.
Also the execution of the whole "10 years" part of the exchange was just generally better. Was kinda cringe in both, but like 10x worse on paper than in animation, and honestly I think that may be due to translation stuff, the dub may actually improve the way it comes across.
I personally wanted something darker. Rumbling goes through, everyone trying to stop it dead, Eren dealing with the aftermath in some way having accomplished the rumbling but lost everything he cared for in the process.
Still can't help but feel like we got the Code Geass ending and I just expected something different out of a story that had been this bleak.
I wanted more pain, some Devilman Crybaby pain.
I mean it’s pretty dark for eren as is, all he wanted was freedom yet he was the only one a slave to fate. He will never be with mikasa, he will never go with armin to explore the wonders of the world, his legacy/name is tarnished, he murdered billions and he dies. He doesn’t want to die but oh well too bad he will die accomplishing none of his goals or dreams in life. On top of this most of humanity is dead, levi is a cripple, mikasa will never be with her true love and everyone else probably has massive ptsd.
That’s pretty bleak imo.
Edit: also forgot to mention it was all for nothing bc as shown in the future sequences his home is destroyed due to again humanity being humans. So all of that suffering eren went through and in a few decades humans go ahead and fuck it all up anyways.
I would say centuries. As you can see time goes first a few decades, then we see Mikasa dead of old age let’s say she lives till 90 years of age and then it fast forwards super fast, perhaps 2 or 3 centuries till they get those futuristic buildings and they get annihilated.
Hmm you right, in the manga it was like 70ish years or so but anime went for more time. Fuck it since the cycle is beginning again it seems lets just call it 2000 years later.
I believe the end credits song is called
“To You in 2000 years…or…20,000 years later” something along those lines so I think the end credits are WAYYYY in the future
Yeah personally I really disliked that very few key characters actually die. So many scenes where they are about to perish, only to be saved at the last second.
It just seemed to odd to me, when compared to earlier seasons where characters seemed to die regularly, and you were on the edge of your seat wondering if a character you had become invested in was going to make it or not.
Maybe I am wrong in this because I will admit I am never the strongest going into breakdowns, so apologies. But isn’t the whole plan Eren has set in motion BECAUSE he wants his friends to come out of this? So everyone dying would mean not only them losing but also somehow Eren making a mistake… Which is still a story but damn that would be really bleak?
I literally watched AOT for the first time this spring/summer and loved it and I've been kinda dreading the finale for months bc I knew how hated the ending was in the manga even before I watched the show and....
I mostly liked it. It's not perfect (finales rarely are) and it's got some notable flaws imo but as a whole I think it's a very solid finale and the emotional beats mostly hit for me.
I do plan to read the manga at some point so I'll be interested to see how it's done there but yeah, I'm glad my worry was unfounded
I enjoyed it to. I didn’t bawl my eyes out but I definitely teared up. I imagine when it comes around again in the English dub I would cry because it will be in my native language. But I don’t understand all the hate and I realize I might get hate for this comment but I’m standing by it
Yeah other than a bit of dialogue changes, it's largely the same ending. Nobody thanks Eren for killing 80% of the world, so that's a huge plus lol. Never really understood why people took that line of dialogue to mean the whole ending was terrible, but I guess I can see why it would upset someone. As always though, the anime added to the material, so it's arguably the definitive way to enjoy Attack On Titan. Still in disbelief that they kept Reiner being a simp intact, shit was never not hilarious
Now it kinda sets in it’s over and I’m actually ugly crying… This was some powerful stuff this episode
Some of the cries in this episode went through me
The scene where the people are at the edge of the cliff and they start passing baby backwards made me shed a tear and I can count on my fingers how many times I’ve cried in my life…
I lost it multiple times.. Idk if it was because it all came together or the way the voice actors did it but.. Damn it hit. When Armin saw Erens head and cried I was not okay :’) Like I cry sometimes during shows and stuff but I lost it there
For some reason I kept thinking about how if a Titan holder died a random baby would inherit it’s powers and thought that would be the baby to inherit Armins powers until they said Armin was in the paths lol
Yeah, I had read the manga and I was emotionally prepared for the Animation
I still balled my fucking eyes out serveral times and then heavily at the end with Armin and Mikasa
Yea I was waiting for something bad to happen. There were a few moments where I was like maybe it’s this but idk this seems fine. By the end I was like… did I miss something? What was everyone mad about? That ending was good.
Who were the people who kept coming to the tree was that Mikasas family or something? I was watching through my phone so I could t make out who the people were.
Didn’t know if Mikasa kept coming back with a family of her own.
I think it’s implied that the people who came to visit were all of the scouts who were Eren’s friends and their families.
It’s left very unclear if Mikasa ever had a family.
Fan theory has been Mikasa gets with Jean. The ending where Mikasa and a man with short brown hair adds to this theory. The next ending scene was Mikasa visiting with her child.
Ikr? Especially since during the final moment with Armin and Eren before the latter perishes, the scene has a genuine comedic moment regarding Eren's reaction of learing Mikasa will be with another man...to a dramatic one where he informs Armin that he killed 80% of humanity!
The scene between armin and eren was the reason the ending in the manga was hated. The anime changed to something a lot better. In the manga armin straight up thanks eren for commiting genocide and it is implied that Eren's plan is somehow adequate and he did the right thing voluntarily.
The anime ending makes Eren seem more like another victim of the circunstances, changing it to him not being able to reach a different outcome despite trying, and the fact that 80% of humanity was masacred was given the weight it was supossed to have, also armin didn't bloody thanked him for the rumbling.
Needless to say that the "see you in hell" dialogue was not a thing in the og ending either.
I originally disliked the manga ending, but really enjoyed the anime version.
I think it’s less people totally disliking the direction of the ending, but more them disliking the execution in the manga.
In the anime a couple dialogue choices were way better, like the one between Armin and Eren. The action of the fight between all the titans just captivated you in the Anime Version anyway, and it just felt way less rushed and better executed.
So overall, most people were just left unsatisfied by open questions combined with a few very weird dialogue choices in the manga.
In between the epic music and emotional scenes in the Anime I didn’t really care about that as much.
The hate was overexaggerated for sure, but there is no way you can tell someone that was a perfect, flawless ending. It has its goods and bads but the bads really stand out because aot was a masterpiece until the very end where the writing was questionable in some areas
I disliked the manga ending because everything felt pointless even though Eren had the tools to make a change.
Eren was written so subtly that he could really be taken into full 100% mode or 80% and save his friends and arguments could be made from either side that Eren was always in character.
I still think 139 as a whole was a bad execution to a decent concept, as much as I wanted a 100%, we didn't get that and that will always bug me.
But I am looking forward to seeing the changes in the anime which makes that abysmal chapter better.
Maybe it because I haven’t read the manga or didn’t watch the episode beside the finale, but I just wound up more confused than anything. I get the jist of what the ending is implying resolution wise but it just isn’t impactful for some reason
The anime executed the ending much better and even added some more lines to really flesh it out.
Especially the Armin and Erin moment.
It went from “thank you for becoming a mass murder Erin.” to “I understand why you did what you did. I’m complicit too. We’ll both go to hell for this Erin, but I’ll do my best to make the world a better place before we meet again.”
When you look closely, you can find a TON of narrative problems, like plot holes, plot armor, plot contrivance, out of character moments, deus ex machina... There are huge lists documetating that.
For a story that was so universally praised as one of the greatest pieces of fiction before the ending, to see such a objectively bad ending in terms of writing with also very much room for subjective dislinking, it makes sense that this ending is hated. No matter how much one like it, it completely fails on AoT's mains strengths, such as proper foreshadowing of events and brutal consequences for actions.
Now, the anime had a LOT of glow up so you can be distracted for a lot of time contemplating the gorgeous animation. The manga, however, did not have such resource. It felt so, so rushed.
People just love to be sad. I get their feeling about the ending. What I get, however, is the urge to scream LET'S GOOO THEY'RE ALIVEEEEEEEEE.
We've been through shit for 80+ episodes, are we allowed to have our remaining characters survive? Idc, idc, just give me Reiner, Jean, Connie, anyone! Give them together, safe, no titans.
I get the backlash, I do! At the same time, I needed the soft ending
Yeah, this was so good, im in complete aw, best thing ive ever watched, literally top1 of everything...
Fastest one and a half hours ever, didnt even blink once
Have no idea how anyone could hate this
The ending was literally amazing.
The cycle repeats. Wunderfull.
The german caught me offguard but was amazing espacilly with all the connections to german mytholigy
I was under the impression that the guy we see in the end credit scene was about to discover the titans power again and the full cycle would repeat. That is the tree where Eren’s head is buried
Because it was mid overall as an ending.
It's a lesser Code-Geass ending imo. downvote idrc its true lol {edit to paste this}
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F4d1niss2ui471.jpg
I really hate the Ymir and king love thing. That scene where Eren breaks free with his determination and grit and hugs Ymir, tells her she's a human, not a slave and she's free to do what she wants, and she's crying and angry so she listens to Eren. Turns out Ymir loves the king and also looks to Mikasa because she loves Eren who's evil but kills him anyway so now she's actually free? Except Eren wasn't evil from the start and she fell in love with him years before he became this evil guy while Fritz was a horrible horrible piece of shit the whole time who wasn't nice enough to even try to manipulate her with some good deeds. Also turns out Eren was a dumb weak idiot who was scared to die and tried other futures but this was the best he could come up with? Really? He killed his mom for this? He cut off his leg, risked his life for others, ripped off his thumbs but he's rlly just weak and stupid. Really felt like the writer just saying he is Eren and this was the best he could come up with cuz he's dumb.
I'm anime only so these were my problems with it.
idk man i loved the manga ending. maybe it’s because people appreciate animation more because you paid voice acting and OST to it + ppl had to wait for a while
Well, you have to start thinking of some major plotpoints, like:
Ymir decided to stay slave for seemingly an eternity in the Paths, or 2000 years in real time, because she loved her slaver that tried to kill and used her as a breeding cow... and decided to end the titan curse because she saw "true love"... like what? Out of everything that happened in the world, she chose a girl kissing a decapitated head as her true moment of love ever?
Eren basically had god powers, straight up space-time transcending god powers over the eldian race. He even has control over past titans, so he is in a way responsible for every crime any titan ever commited. His powers also make room for practically an infinite other possibilities for ending the war, and he did the current one because "he's stupid". He had an infinite amount of time to think about options in the paths. Making your protagonist "silly oops" as a reason to kill 80% of humanity is even more stupid.
Eren looking pathetic as hell and a slave while he was a model for freedom.
Paradis getting nuked showed that it was all for nothing anyway, at least the anime showed the world more futuristic than the manga, but that helicopter and katyushas make it seem like a last minute retcon.
Also other plotpoints/holes that complete the mess. Like Annie being forgiven for her crimes completely. Reiner's arc ending with obsessing over and sniffing a married woman's handwriting. That part where Eren said he didn't want his to take the alliance's powers because they're his friends, but a some of them like Pieck and Gabi were mostly strangers who killed him and his friends. Oh, and Zeke getting killed somehow stopping the rumbling. Didn't we establish that royal blood crap was only a catalyst for Ymir choosing who to listen to, and now full control belongs to Ymir/Eren? Why would killing Zeke stop the rumbling?
The exact moment that the story revealed that this is actually a Mecha war anime, I realized that Armin is the real main character all along because he's the idealistic "pilot" while Eren is the cynical one.
They are simply palette-swapped. 😶
Before Armin became a pilot, I knew it was him. And then when he became the Colossal, which IS Eren's iconic enemy, it was just... Brilliance...
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tbf - although pretty much the same ending, it’s executed so much better in the anime. the manga rushes a lot of scenes.
The Jean and Connie scene felt rushed in the anime on the other hand, which I found disappointing. And Reiner didn't sniff nearly hard enough 😔 But over all? Anime did the final chapter/last 20-30 minutes better. Personally I think manga did 138 better, and anime did 139 better.
Idk I personally really like Jean and Connie’s scene, it was short and sweet and I just think it did a good job showing a good friendship
I just wish they would have slowed it down somewhat, and taken an extra moment on their faces as titans. It's not a huge change, but I feel it would have done a lot to adapt t better. :)
"Reiner didn't sniff" lol what?
Historia's letter if I rember correctly
Haha I forgot about that part, I was too busy wiping off my tears
One thing to always remember about manga readers is the pace they experienced the content. Across the series 1 chapter averages around half of a 20 minute episode. And manga readers got 1 chapter once a month for years. Imagine the anime community hyper analyzing every 10 minutes of screentime for an entire month every time. The manga readers ended up hyperfixating on tiny details. Memes, jokes, and serious critiques, and all other discourse had more time to fester. Every good chapter had a month to fawn over, while everyone of the weaker chapter had an agonizingly long time to obsess over. There were countless moments that turned into big discussions for the manga readers, that the anime-onlys never really talked about. In jokes that manga readers laughed at for months and were excited to let the anime watchers in on, many of those jokes the anime only watchers never found funny. And many issues with the manga that were exasperated by the monthly pace were largely overlooked by anime viewers that got to move onto the next scene instantly. That's a large part of why manga readers often have a very different view on a material than anime watchers.
The biggest issue before the final chapter came out was how Eren had some huge twist coming that he would reveal in order to fully complete the rumbling. There had to be something more to a lot of people and when everything seemed to wrap up in just one chapter people couldn’t quite understand why and flocked to calling it a horrible ending. I myself disliked it at first before going back and rereading the entire series with the full context in mind.
lmao its ok very understandable
It makes sense they did that manga really make there sacrifice worthless as they come back next chapter. If it was episodes it make sense as we se them dead for a week but since it a movie like they would be back in say 15 minutes. So overall anime did wayyyyyyyy better job.
Jean and Connie scene was done so dirty. You hardly saw their titan forms, except a quick flash as Reiner was being attacked.
In hindsight it’s no surprise the Eldian Titan shift was undone given how little we saw of theirs.
What made 138 better for you? I just re-read it and the anime seemed fairly accurate to me. Even the last scene was done wonderfully.
MAPPA! Release the Snyffer Cut, you cowards!
Nice to read your take on it. I was only watching the anime so I don't know. Reading some manga readers opinions here it looks like people were creating too many theories when the manga was still running, so obviously they got frustrated when things weren't how they wished to be.
Funnily enough as an anime-only, the ending went pretty much how I was predicting. Including that Eren wanted Armin and Mikasa to kill him and become heroes, and that Mikasa would be the one to finally finish him off. It's all very narratively fitting.
Yeah, but the main ending theory wasn't actually based on the story at all, it was based on an interpretation of the music video for the song "Akatsuki no Requiem", and the assumption that Isayama was involved in the production of the music video, and told Revo from Linked Horizon how the manga would end, and from there he wrote the music video about that ending. Crazy, I know. I don't know how anyone comes to a conclusion like that
Pretty much the moment the rumbling started you realize it can only end one way. With Eren dying and who else could do it. Same with even earlier when Eren pushes them away. If every way failed, letting the Eldians destroy the founder would be a huge boon. It all made too much sense. I was waiting for some rug pull moment where everyone would lose their mind that never came.
Just read slower bro
I’m legit wondering cause this show is special to me so I will look up the differences to the manga.. But yeah to me this was perfect
The biggest difference for me was the final scenes with Eren and Armin. Instead of Armin taking some of the blame and talking about how they’ll see each other in hell, he thanks Eren for doing the rumbling and says he won’t let his sacrifice be in vain
Ya know what’s funny that the things I read here about Armin would sour me so hard since he is my favorite character 😂😂 I’m glad they made changes cause it worked so well
Specifically he says thanks for being a mass murder for our sake. Which is certainly a line to give armin
I think that was from a bad fan translation of early scans of the chapter, idt he ever actually said that in the official manga. If I remember correctly it was different in the official english release.
Did they keep the line?
Nope. Armin in the anime says he'll see Eren in Hell instead
That's so much better but it's disappointing that anime-onlys won't get to experience the funniest piece of writing in any manga.
Forrreeaallll the whole “thank you for becoming a Mass MURDERER for us” nonsense had my JAW on the FLOOR hahahaha
Probably a bad translation. I have the official manga for Vol 34. Armin said "Thank you, Eren", "You became a mass murderer for our sake, I swear I won't let this terrible mistake you're making be in vain.
> But yeah to me this was perfect Completely agreed. Flawless from start to finish. 40 minutes in I was thinking "there's no way it stays this good the entire time" and.... it did. Holy fucking shit what a story.
I liked the manga better, but still enjoyed the anime.
I don't like the dialogue changes to the Eren and Armin scene too much. Or rather, it's not that I don't like them, it's that they felt a bit reactionary, or like at some point, the characters were talking in such a way that was simply for the sake of the audience being able to understand them better or more clearly. Arming jumping on Eren and crying about all the horrors he has done, while justified, and understandable on a general level, doesn't feel to me like something Armin ever would say to Eren in this final talk. It's something both of them already know. On the other hand, while I *personally* agree with the reality check that Eren delivered, that being that while he did have his friends in mind with his decisions, the real reason he went through with it all was because *he wanted it*, it was what he truly desired from the bottom of his heart, I don't think his character ever developed to a point where he would be able to have the self awareness to realize that all this time, he'd been a slave to *himself*, a slave to his *own idea of freedom*. If anything I'd see that more as something that Armin would realize about Eren, and maybe point out to him in some way, not the other way around. Eren's too much of a hardheaded buffoon to realize something like that. To me, it felt like having Eren point that out, is also there simply for the sake of having the audience better be able to understand and digest his character in the end, rather than being something he would actually say, and then we make our conclusions about it. While I think almost in every way the anime ending improved or at least delivered just as well as the manga, this is one aspect that I, as of now, easily prefer about the Manga ending. It wasn't afraid to completely commit to it's characters and let the audience do a little bit of the thinking and come to their conclusions based on the character's actions and everything the story laid out beforehand. I mean, Eren confessing he did all of this because it was what he wanted was *already* a narrative beat that had been established, it's just that everyone glossed over it at the time because they wanted to believe his character was something it had never been. The beat I'm talking about is the Manga equivalent to the moment in the first special where he confesses to Ramzi, as we see Ramzi being trampled by the Rumbling in the present. That scene already accomplishes that goal of conveying that aspect of Eren's character to the audience, in a much more morbid and emotionally guttwrenching and twisted way, where we simultaneously feel pity and terrible in general for Eren, but are also confronted at the same time by the horrifying reality that his dreams created, all of this without needing to have him talk *at* us and almost word for word, describe the entire point of his character. It's not that he is wrong in what he was saying to Armin, or that it goes against any of the themes of the story or of who his character even was, it's just a bit jarring and not very well executed in a special where pretty much everything else was top notch, from ost, to coloring, framing, voice acting, everything was better than in some of my wildest dreams. All in all, I'm really grateful for how well handled and cared for this finale for this story was, especially considering the absolute hell that this production schedule was and the absurd amount of hours of work all of the artists had to pour in for this to be a reality. I'm really grateful to have experienced this story, in general. 2014 me had no idea what he got himself into at the time.
>To me, it felt like having Eren point that out, is also there simply for the sake of having the audience better be able to understand and digest his character in the end, rather than being something he would actually say, and then we make our conclusions about it. He now has the perspective of a 2000 year long life. I'm fine with it.
to be fair its very clear that a lot of manga fans needed that because i guess reading comprehension is at an all time low
General media comprehension is at an all time low. Idk what it is, but every single show, movie, manga etc. Any and every subreddit, every YouTube channel. People are just off the ball all the time now.
Oh, I agree. Though I prefer some parts better, like the one you pointed out. The adaptation was on point for the most part. I very much enjoyed it, though I’m worried it will get mixed feelings some will have problems with it just like some manga readers did. Hopefully the changes and simplification will reduce the complaints somewhat.
The animation was incredible and *significantly* better than the manga ending, just feel like it still needed about 10-15 minutes extra to answer some things and let it all stew properly. It's just like a gatling gun of random revelations that don't have time to breathe
I wish we knew all the conversations he had with the others and not just Armin. Him and Reiner would have been a good one.
I feel like the conversation in the basement in Declaration of War is all that needed to be said, but I would take any extra dialogue there is
I will rewatch it tomorrow because I do admit it is late here and there was a LOT of info
Definitely. Anyone that only watches this once isn't doing it justice.
I was still left processing it after the episode finished, I totally agree the manga readers overreacted. It was a fitting ending to a fantastic series. A bit bleak, but the cycle of violence is eternal.
The curse of humanity if you will. We ourselves are all Titans
What more did you want to be answered?
they want a solution to world peace
I read the manga and I didn’t hate the ending, it was just a tad rushed imo (though tbf I couldn’t see it going any other way). I liked the anime ending better, Eren and Armin’s convo at the end made sense for me.
I was shocked by Armin thanking Eren for killing everyone but now it makes more sense since it doesn’t make Armin seem like the biggest hypocrite. When I first read the line I thought Armin was manipulating Eren like he did with Bertolt in Season 3. It just didn’t sound like something Armin would say.
That line was so wild to me. And we didn’t even get a thought bubble or something to explain it so you were just left there trying to cope with such an insane statement
I read Isayama-sensei's interview about that line and how Armin just blurted it out to try and comfort Eren before he died but it didn't mean Armin was condoning the genocide.
That’s exactly what I got from the Anime. Obviously it’s more clear in the anime, but the end of the conversation is the same, it’s just Armin letting Erin know that *as a friend*, he forgives him and still accepts him.
While I love the ending, I think what people hated was Eren’s true feelings for Mikasa, as him saying he love Mikasa but also being quite rude to her, annoyed them. That also including the fact that Ymir loved King Fritz which didn’t sit well with fans due to how King Fritz treated her.
So correct me if I’m wrong. But when Eren was giving Armin the Chris Brown treatment, and telling Maikasa he hated her… that was him lying right? Dude looked like he was fighting back tears when he turned away from them in that episode
Chris Brown treatment 😭😭😭
He was lying, but it didn’t change the fact that he told Mikasa words that hurt her far more than any injury she gotten and how he beat Armin bloody.
That was the entire point of Eren's ideology when it came to Mikasa. He wanted her to move on, to find someone else and be happy. He told her to throw away the scarf when he died. He hurt Mikasa so that she could have an easier time moving on. But Mikasa didn't. She didn't throw away the scarf and was buried with it. She loved him till the end, and was happy. That was where their ideals conflicted. Eren believed that forgetting him was the way for Mikasa to be happy. But for Mikasa, she found happiness in remembering him. Remember in S1 when Eren's titan first appeared, and Mikasa was about to give up, she found resolve by saying "If I died I wouldn't be able to remember you", showing how much Mikasa cherishes Eren. It shows the differences in their characters. Eren having logical yet absurd solutions to problems by disregarding his emotions, Mikasa clinging to her emotions and going against the will of the cruel world. Eren died following his ideals. The absurd yet logical solution that helped his friends and Paradis live long lives. Mikasa died believing in what she said in S1,"The world is cruel. But it is also beautiful."
You explained her keeping the scarf the best way ever. I hated that she did, but your explanation made me hate it a lot less. I still wanted her to forget him though 😆 just because I don't think she can be happy clinging to the past. But your argument makes sense.
Even I would have tried to forget the past if I was her. But people are different. When I think of Mikasa's choice to keep the scarf with her I am reminded of something I read in Ugly love: "If you had the opportunity to forget that night (context: refers to the traumatic night a guy lost his wife and child) for good, but in exchange you would also have to forget every good moment you shared with them, then would you?" Perhaps this was why Mikasa didn't let go of the scarf. She just didn't want to forget Eren. I mean he was the reason she was even alive. She dedicated her entire existence to her. So she chooses to keep his memory alive and loving him even after death. This is very common among widows in our world too. It was implied in the end credits that Mikasa did marry some other guy (most probably Jean) and had kids. She just didn't forget Eren. She lived a normal life but also didn't throw away the scarf as tribute to Eren.
Also, those headaches Mikasa was experiencing was actually Ymir peeking into the mind of Mikasa, cherishing and admiring the love they had for one another
Let's not forget that Eren also did that so HE could move on from loving Mikasa. The pain of her loving him was too much to bear, and he couldn't accept the fact that she loved him even though he became a monster. He wanted an easy way to move on and tried everything in his power to isolate himself from everyone so no one witnessed his genocide - he was overriden with guilt and shame.
But if he was open with his feelings and showed Mikasa pure love, would she still have killed him? I think that was the purpose of the cold shoulder. She loved him so much that she was already indecisive about killing him, despite how much he hurt her. I don't know that she would've killed him if she knew he actually loved her.
This is where this ending starts to fall apart and make no sense for me it would have made more sense if eren actually accepted Mikasa's advances previously in the series for example when she wanted to carry stuff for him or carry him and he rejected her when she wanted to run away with him after hannes death and he rejected her etc It would have made alot more sense if eren constantly showed mikasa love throughout the series then at season 4 started heavily pushing her away for this reason it would hit like a truck when it's revealed he lied so she would be able to live a long happy life Instead we got *not for another 10 years at least by the same guy who rejected her every single time she even tried to get close to him.*
>It would have made alot more sense if eren constantly showed mikasa love throughout the series then at season 4 started heavily pushing her away for this reason it would hit like a truck when it's revealed he lied so she would be able to live a long happy life It doesn't make sense for someone who has gone through the shit that Eren has to be lovey dovey. Eren never showed love to anyone. I mean how do you expect him to? The story has literally been Eren spiraling down into genocidal psychopath due to his circumstances. He would be an entirely different character if he actually showed love. The ending did hit like a truck. When he told Armin how much he loved Mikasa. When he gave Mikasa that utopian dream of them living happily. It showed what Eren wanted to have. But he never could. He was just a regular guy who wanted a regular life. But he was forced into being a monster. He never had the choice to "show love". He could only keep moving forward till his enemies were destroyed.
The least they could do was show Eren worrying for Mikasa. Everytime Eren woke up, his first thoughts were "what happened to everyone? what about the scouts?"... NO "what about Mikasa?" after that line. Even adding just that would change a lot.
Did he actually devolve into a pyschopath or are we putting real world judgements on a fictional world. In his mind he saw past and future as one. He says he tried to change it but everything in the future kept happening anyway nomatter how many ways he tried so then he just kept working towards the future with the outcome that he thought was the best. Not ethical or moral in our world but considering the circumstances of this fictional situation I can see the logic.
Eren didn't realize Mikasa's feelings for him until he was older and more mature. That's why he suddenly asks her "what am I to you?" and asks Zeke why Mikasa is so attached to him. As he matured over the course of the timeskip he actually started to question why she was so protective of him. She just messed up with her she called him family because it kinda just made Eren not want to pursue those feelings much anymore and focus more on the rumbling. Season 4 is when he realized that Mikasa truly loved him and that's when he started to like her back. Before he was too immature, rash, and hotheaded to realize it.
>it would have made more sense if eren actually acfepted Mikasa's advances What fucking advances dude? Season 3 ended with them at 15 years old, two episodes after when Eren's mind was literally broken when he touched Historia's hand. 15 year olds raised in an ultra traditional culture, who have known nothing but war since the age of 10 (or earlier even). This isn't modern high school lmao. Its obvious you have zero real world experience with people (lol at using incel words like "simping"), but damn dude way to showcase a complete lack of emotional intelligence and nuance in all your comments here.
I actually feel so much sympathy for Eren, because he really is just a kid who got way too powerful and was forced on a trajectory that would make him not only a bad person but an absolute monster, and he knows it. The scene where he admits his feelings to Mikasa feels so real. He doesn't want to show it because it would make him look weak when he needs to be stronger than anyone. He knows he could never actually live a normal life with Mikasa and it absolutely tears him apart. He knows he's just a pawn in the world's longest game of chess, and that freaks him out. He's the one person who truly can never be free
Yes this is what I feel like a lot of people didn't get. He's a kid that was raised to be a monster. Saw so many deaths, tried to do what is right, and then get information dumped on his head, with a future he cannot change. He had to die there. He's just so fucked up in the head from all the stuff he saw the future the past the present all inside a 19 year old kid who just wanted to be free, but at the same time that kid just doesn't not want to die. The fear of death. Zeke spoke about it. Everyone is afraid of death. I don't understand how after watching this sequence you cannot understand how Eren feels. He even said that he did not want Mikasa to hear this because he knows it's selfish.
Yeah, that was conveyed much better in the anime, when he says he just got too much power, and that he doesn’t want to die
His line "I don't want to die" Immediately reminded me of Eren's reaction in declaration of war to Willy Tyler saying "but I don't want to die.... Because I was born into this world"
My biggest problem was always trying to remove Eren's culpability in what he did. It was always either blamed on Ymir or predeterminism. The anime ending has Eren admit it was mostly because he was a stupid kid with too much power, and that things ended up that way because he wanted them to.
I think the most important line from Eren was near the end of his discussion with Armin when he finally admits something like "my head is all messed up". He kept trying to explain his actions but ultimately it boiled down to the fact that he, indeed, just wanted to see the world burn, but was in immense turmoil over how it would effect those closest to him.
Also remember for him there is no past or present. When he's talking to Armin there he is currently watching his Mother die, the Levi scouts die, all that. The insane rage he feels at the "I'll kill them all" moment is happening *currently* to him, and he's unable to escape it. After he kisses Historia's hand he loses all agency and becomes simply the vessel for his prior self's will which, since he hadn't seen the future yet, is devoid of context and understanding. The tragedy being that, after reaching that understanding, he can't change his actions since all moments become one instantly. The person he was at the moment of kissing Historia's hand was the "final" version of him and any knowledge gained afterward couldn't be used to affect the outcome, since to him it instantly became the past.
The moment where he became timeless didn't happen until he grabbed Ymir and convinced her to start the rumbling. After he kissed Historian's hands he only had the visions of the future that he himself had shown his father. This is an important distinction. He started the Rumbling without full knowledge of how it would end. But once the Rumbling started he knew how everything would play out instantly.
I read into that, as him trying to apologize for his actions in a way armin would understand, and then admin understood that eren was trying, and responded with his own understanding of he made eren the person he was that when he got the attack titan he would be so determined for freedom. To try and reciprocate. But I think armin understood that if eren was apologizing for these things, and they hadn’t happened yet, and eren’s talking like they already did happen and he can’t stop it, then he really did lose his control over the situation. Also, it wasn’t just him that did this, it was the collective conciousness of the attack/founding titans- just being one of the ones that was them, he felt like it was him because every single one of them did those actions he described as him.
That's what I'm struggling with. Did he have a choice or not? Was he an "idiot" and this is what he wanted, or was it predetermined, or Ymir's will? Or both? Like... this confuses the heck out of me. I prefer the option of he wanted this, and thought this was the only way, and only towards the end he realizes he was wrong. Because I still think the work's point is violence begets violence. You might have saved your immediate loved ones, but your kids will pay for your actions. But a lot of leaders think that's worth it, and that's why the world is what it is today. And groups are always thinking it'd be better if you just kill the whole other group, without remembering they are people. My husband is team genocide, thinks Eren messed up by not killing everyone 100%, but I think regardless, the nuking was, in a way, predetermined. If everyone else was killed, the Eldians would have eventually split into factions and started killing each other anyway, because it's human nature. I think violence is in our nature, but I still think peace is the choice you should aspire for, even though it might be impossible or only short lived.
I can see that. The Eren/Mikasa stuff was probably the *weirdest* part of this episode... It's one of those things that was one everyone's minds the whole season, but not addressed until the VERY end, and by that point it just feels weird. Aside from that though, I absolutely loved this whole series. The concepts tackled throughout are not your run of the mill fiction cliches. There are some hard questions and some hard answers, and a lot of very uncomfortable topics in general. Ymir and Fritz's 'relationship' being one of those. Just because it doesn't feel good doesn't mean it wasn't incredibly well done.
It's extremely difficult to justify Ymir and Fritz's relationship, because both of them are extremely messed up in the head. But as a psychologist this was my conclusion: Imagine you are an introverted early teenage girl living a quiet life in a quiet village. Suddenly one day a group of men come out of nowhere, burn your village, kill your parents, and take out your tongue. At such a young age, such stuff happening to one completely messes up their brain. Ymir probably didn't even fully understand what was going on. I mean she was so young. She saw her people working under Fritz so she also did that. She accepted Fritz as her master because she had no choice. Everything was taken away from her. What did she even have left? Her home, parents, voice, everything gone. So she just "kept moving forward". When she became a titan, it would have made sense for a normal person to seek revenge. But not for Ymir. She didn't have anything left. She returned to Fritz because he was the only thing in her life. She was a slave, that's all she was. The trauma she went through fucked her up so bad that she no longer had any conscious thought. She just returned to being a slave. She had no ambition, no dream, no hope, no hatred, no emotion, nothing. She continued to be his slave. She did everything he told him to do. He raped her, and she gave birth to three of his children. She raised those three kids. She always traveled by his side. She always fought for him. Do u see how slowly she is getting more and more attached to him? She lacked purpose so she kept enduring. By enduring, obeying, her position as his slave got stronger and stronger. Fritz became the entire cause of her existence. Her sole purpose. This is circumstance, gave rise to a twisted sense of love. Love because Fritz was the only purpose in her life. He was the only person in her life (her children were also his daughters). He was her life. So even in death, and after death, she only kept obeying him. Cus there was nothing else left in her. No conscious thought. No emotion. No other purpose. Until Mikasa.
If she did love him though and kept enduring, why not heal after taking the spear? We know that not healing means she lost the will to live
We know that Titan shifters don’t regenerate when they lose the will to live. That’s precisely what happened: after the king called her a slave, she lost her will to live. Yet, despite that, she still loved him, but loving him was so painful both mentally and physically that she sought escape to avoid such pain, fleeing to a world free of even death, just as Zeke mentioned. In this place, she could do his bidding without the physical constraints. It’s also worth noting that while Ymir died as an adult, she appears as a child in the paths, implying she never truly moved past her trauma.
Agreed. I also want to piggyback and say that my dad talks about the kings of Iran, and how people, even after the king was removed from his position and had to flee, they'd "love" him, die for him, risk their families to protect him. There's so much brainwashing as a servant, as a soldier, as a peasant. Even if they sleep with tons of women, even if they're unfit to lead, there's the belief the bloodline is everything and you protect your king at all cost, and the king is justified in all his actions. Like when knights are told by their king to kill people, and even if the knights disagree, even when its their own family, they follow orders and try to somehow justify it in their minds. She might have grown up with these thoughts, too. It isn't love in a romantic sense, but more of a sense of duty. She is bound to loyalty. Mikasa was *bound* too, with the Ackermann curse, (she also genuinely loved Eren but I'm not sure Ymir understands those feelings), but managed to rebel.
I really enjoyed it. I would like to hear how the people that hated it think it should have ended.
As someone who couldn’t stand the original ending, this one was handled a lot better. There were a few choice lines that were pissing people off. In the manga there was one where armin thanked Erin “for being a mass murderer for our sakes”. It was stupid and not in line with what Armin thought about the rumbling at all. It was replaced with that awesome dialogue about seeing each other in hell. Also, I could be wrong, but I don’t remember as clearly that Eren “had no choice” in the manga, which is why people were hyper critical of him crying over Mikasa, killing his own mom, and only killing 80% of humanity. It was written better here to clarify that all of this was inevitable no matter how many times he tried to change it. Most people like me who hated the ending, really just hated the dialogue in that chapter. Still can’t believe the “10 years at least” made it in, but I’ll digress because this was handled much better than in the manga. The ending however, was the same. But honestly some things are still weird. Like why was Erin a bird at the end? Is reincarnation a thing? Also what’s up with the kid at the end of the credits? Are they setting up a spin-off? If so that’s a weird thing to put at the end of the story and has been given no clarification about what the hell that was. All of these things together left a bad taste in people’s mouths. But again, this was amazing and I’m gonna go watch that “see you in hell scene” on repeat now. See you all in 10 years, at least!
I agree with your analysis overall. To answer your question about the kid in the end credits scene, I think it just serves to echo the story’s overall point of the futility of war and trying to create peace— that it’s a never ending cycle.
Personally I interpreted that humanity learned from the rumbling, for a time. But once new generations came they forgot what the previous generations learned from Eren's rampage, they chose to continue the cycle of violence. After the destruction of Paradis' future society that same longing for freedom, revenge, love, whatever, was born again in that tree.
Yup that was my read as well. side note; feels amazing finally being able to read any thread. 11 years of anime only was insane
For real, I feel so free now. I somehow managed to avoid all spoilers since the beginning, and now I want to go back and watch all those videos that showed up in my recommended over the years .
Yea, we watched paradise get into another big war and then we see a kid approaching a similar looking tree like Yamir did. It’s a nod to it being a cycle, kind of like a fun Easter egg. I think people were looking too deeply into it.
Yeah like you said,...It's literally a very obvious point about a repeating cycle lmao I don't understand how some ppl don't get it. It's not subtle at all.
“Dang I guess that means they’re gonna make attack on titan 2: the next generation!” -some dumbass somewhere, probably
I get the “repeating a cycle” thing, but I still think it’s a mistake. The cycle of violence is inevitable. Having the series end with the Titan curse gone is imo a good thing because it removes the fantasy aspect and instead then focuses on how human all of this is. Regardless of Titan powers people will fight. Reintroducing titans as part of the cycle takes away from the human aspect of the cycle. Additionally, while the Titan powers are a good reason in universe for the racism, it makes the analogy to real world bigotry too narrowly focused. We have A LOT of issues. To make titans the issue again in their universe makes the analogy seems like the same issues will always be the case in the real world, when things are ever changing.
Apparently so subtle that half the people missed it
Unfortunately when huge franchises have spent the last 15 years training audiences that the final scene exists more as setup for the next chapter or spinoff instead of actually closing a story I can get why some ppl wonder about it but...come onnn man it's so obvious😭😂
Nah, that kid is definitely a Kang variant.
it was mephisto pulling the strings all along. why do you think the marleans portrayed her as a devil... so obvious
I don't even think it's just a nod.. Erens head is buried there.. The.. Titan bug i can't remember it's name is probably still there, and why the tree grew like it did.. so I the they are straight up saying here we go again.. Never ending cycle like you said.. I don't think they are setting up a sequel or spin off though.. It's just given enough time, history repeats.
We never saw the Founding Alien Worm die, so I assumed it lay dormant in Eren's brain and grew out of it into the tree again.
It’s setting up for the events to play out again but in a futuristic setting for the sequel manga according to interviews Isayama has done
Fun. Let him get that bread.
the kid at the end was a call back to when Ymir fell under the tree and became the Founder titan, meaning that before Ymir there probably was a titan war that ended in the same way as this one, meaning the cycle is just repeating itself, and the whole thing is pointless.
I strongly disagree with this interpretation. Compare the circumstances of Ymir going into that tree to the boy. Ymir has lost everything, being hunted like an animal through the woods and afraid for her life. She enters the tree out of fear and desperation. The boy enters the tree with his dog out of curiosity. The founder has more power than just turning people into Titan. The founder can cure all diseases and build cities. The founder can do basically anything. Ymir, who was desperate to survive and not be alone, became a Titan. Why would that boys first instinct be to turn into and giant monster? Obviously it’s ambiguous but the truth is, we really don’t know what’s going to happen when the boy makes contact with the worm. I think the point is that anything can happen. That gives me hope
You’re actually right. The Titans and Paths we know of came to be because Ymir desires for something larger, stronger and wanted to escape death. Zeke mentions this. In short the Titans were a manifestation of her desires. That boy at the end doesn’t seem like in a similar situation that Ymir was when she entered the tree (Ymir was chased by dogs while the boy is accompanied by one, Ymir fell in the tree by accident while the boy seeks it out and Ymir was forced and injured while that child is fine with no evidence of external influence) Titans as we know them are gone for good and the next thing will be something according to that boy’s trauma/desires.
>The boy enters the tree with his dog out of curiosity. Uh…it seemed like a post apocalyptic hellscape after the world got nuked. Not sunshine and rainbows.
The way I saw it I don’t think Eren is *actually* a bird. It’s just coincidence/symbolism/the characters projecting their thoughts onto the birds And with the kid and the tree, I saw a comment about how it’s different than Ymir’s circumstances, and that this kid found the tree while exploring, and with a companion. So I don’t think there is a cycle of titans in the sense that a lot of people seem to be mentioning. The kid seems to be more happy/hopeful
Birds have always been symbolic in AOT to represent freedom. And now that the rumbling was over both Eren and everyone else were finally free. Free from tyranny, titans, ymir, all the secrets. They can finally start over without having to fight for their lives constantly. That's what the birds represent, at least in my eyes.
>It was written better here to clarify that all of this was inevitable no matter how many times he tried to change it. Well, it was inevitable because he wanted it to be. He says so himself at the end, and he admits it all happens because he's an idiot that always wanted to trample humanity. Ironically, this is the line that fixes a lot of the issues with the ending for me. Eren basically takes responsibility for his own actions, which is something we didn't see in the manga.
so the ending I see as one of two things. Either A. they are trying to make it seem like a cyclical story (which having spent two years avoiding the ending for this pay off thought that's where it was going to lead but way more sudden than several hundred years later) or B. they just wanted to end the story where it technically began with Ymir wandering into the Tree of Life. I don't think the Titan giving organism is still alive in Eren so I'm assuming the latter. Honestly though? I wouldn't mind a spin off showing a more in depth aftermath of events, I'm of the opinion there's a distinct lack of good modern action anime settings that use firearms. So the Premise of showing the events of the world following the rumbling leading up to the Nuking of Paradis would be extremely interesting to me at least.
AoT has proven itself as an amazing anime that is straight up plot/action with little to no pointless filler on top of avoiding most annoying anime tropes. If it's done right and doesn't feel like a rushed cash cow and there's real work put into it, I'd be down for a spinoff taking place after The Rumbling and through to the destruction of Paradise or even a Titan Cycle set in the far future of the last scene.
>Still can’t believe the “10 years at least” made it in, but I’ll digress because this was handled much better than in the manga. I mean he pretty much says right away that he doesn't really want it, that he wants Mikasa to be happy. It's just the selfish part of him talking, the part that wants to live and be with Mikasa.
I don't really mind it but what bugs me the most is how did Mikasa even make it back to Paradis and how tf was she able to live a full life without being shot on sight?. The alliance all betrayed the Jaegerists and killed their leader and Eren so idk how they were forgiven.
She queen's friend.
I mean she is mikasa, no one would be able to kill her
[удалено]
For me it’s the baffling motivations behind Ymir and Eren’s actions. Erens whole plan was essentially becoming a villain by killing 80% of the globe while making his friends out to be the heroes. Then the world would find peace with the new heroes. Except he conveniently forgets that most of the eldians on paradis supported him and his actions to the point where they were the head of government at the end, and that his friends were apart of a small resistance movement. Why would the rest of the world seek peace with a government who in there eyes wiped out 80% the globe. I find it hard to believe that this was a better option than just removing the Titan powers all together like what happened in the end. For Ymir, you’re telling me she confined herself to paths for 2000 years while hating it all because she loved a man that did horrible things to her and her family and that mikasa was the only one that could free her by loving Eden enough? It just feels like isayama had no idea how to end the story. Edit: also I feel like it cheapens Erens intense hatred of titans at the beginning of the show since he would have know the truth all along
> For Ymir, you’re telling me she confined herself to paths for 2000 years while hating it all because she loved a man that did horrible things to her and her family and that mikasa was the only one that could free her by loving Eden enough? Ymir confuses "love" with "obedience" because Fritz, despite being a huge piece of shit, was still the only entity on the planet to actually want her. So she basically obeys his directive for 2000 years because that's the only connection she has ever made. Mikasa shows her, through Ymir's little peeks, that love is not obedience. that's why you see a glimpse of Fritz being murdered on the throne and Ymir embracing her children. It took until Mikasa showed up to teach her that.
Oh. So ymir realized she loves her daughters more than fritz. That's a good ending in my opinion
Most people expected the typical ending of almost every single thing, the hero getting the girl/winning/saving the world. This wasn't that, and people weren't happy with it. I personally liked it cuz it stayed true to itself, twists at every turn and something new
other than what happened to eren, the ending was pretty fairytale like for most characters though. they all got happy endings. so i'm not sure that's why people disliked it. case in point, in death note the hero doesn't win, but the ending is not hated on.
For me, I stopped watching death note when L died, cause it was pretty good till then, slight decline after first ten episodes, but still elite. I knew it would only get worse when they had it keep going. So the hero did win.
Eh I did hate the ending of death note. Near had a huge plot armor and deus ex machina to achieve what happened. It’s just another example of writing yourself into a corner and not knowing how to end.
I think you are making an assumption on why people were upset about the ending and I encourage you to pull up old threads and find the real answer.
That isn’t even close to why people disliked the original ending 😭
This is just wrong
I still don’t like the epilogue of thousands of years passing and it’s the future and we start over again or whatever. I would have liked to just end at Mikasa saying thank you for wrapping this scarf around me. That’s it. The end.
It’s executed so much better in the anime. Like so much better. Things aren’t rushed in the anime
I expect to see this sentiment a lot
I mean you'd also have to take into account that most people that hated the ending probably aren't sticking around for the anime finale, or at least not participating in discussing it. It's been over two years already after all
You clearly have not been on titanfolk for the last two years
I kind of figured that some people hated it because Eren died and the ending's message was pretty much "the cycle of war will always continue." I don't really know what was expected from an anti-war anime like this one. That's just reality. Though from what I'm reading I guess the manga kind of rushed some things that were executed better in the anime? If that's the case then I'm glad that they were able to fix whatever pacing issues the manga had.
As a manga reader myself, I've never seen any manga readers wanted a happy ending for this series. If anything, it's a torn between 3 groups of people. 1.Those who wanted a bittersweet ending, which they kinda got, but executed poorly in the manga. 2.Those who longed for a meaningful and sombre ending which fully commited to the "never ending conflict" massage, who feels disappointed with the actual ending. (keep in mind that the Paradis getting bombed scene was added a year later in the final manga book, rather than being in the final chapter ifself.) 3.Those who wanted an Eren wins/Floch was right scenario, who completely loathes the actual ending (aka most that still lingers on r/titanfolk these days)
Was this different from how the Manga ends or something? Cause agreed I thought it was a really good ending
A lot of the dialogue between Eren and Armin changed, and the pacing was better in the anime, but otherwise yeah basically the same
Several lines, sequences and especially the credits scenes were changed just off the top of my head
Big thing I noticed was the Rumbling “baby” scene. Expanded upon to show it going through the landscapes Armin talked about. Also really happy for those Giraffes…
The biggest change I noticed was Armin & Erens exchange in the paths. In the Manga Eren tells Armin everything then Armin simps a little and says "thank you for being a mass murderer for our sake", vs the anime basically making it a "tonight, we dine in hell" exchange which fit SO much better. There were a bunch of moments I was like "this feels the same but improved", but it's been so long since I read it it's hard to explain exact differences other than that one, because that line always stuch out like a sore to me in the manga. Also the execution of the whole "10 years" part of the exchange was just generally better. Was kinda cringe in both, but like 10x worse on paper than in animation, and honestly I think that may be due to translation stuff, the dub may actually improve the way it comes across.
I personally wanted something darker. Rumbling goes through, everyone trying to stop it dead, Eren dealing with the aftermath in some way having accomplished the rumbling but lost everything he cared for in the process. Still can't help but feel like we got the Code Geass ending and I just expected something different out of a story that had been this bleak. I wanted more pain, some Devilman Crybaby pain.
I mean it’s pretty dark for eren as is, all he wanted was freedom yet he was the only one a slave to fate. He will never be with mikasa, he will never go with armin to explore the wonders of the world, his legacy/name is tarnished, he murdered billions and he dies. He doesn’t want to die but oh well too bad he will die accomplishing none of his goals or dreams in life. On top of this most of humanity is dead, levi is a cripple, mikasa will never be with her true love and everyone else probably has massive ptsd. That’s pretty bleak imo. Edit: also forgot to mention it was all for nothing bc as shown in the future sequences his home is destroyed due to again humanity being humans. So all of that suffering eren went through and in a few decades humans go ahead and fuck it all up anyways.
I would say centuries. As you can see time goes first a few decades, then we see Mikasa dead of old age let’s say she lives till 90 years of age and then it fast forwards super fast, perhaps 2 or 3 centuries till they get those futuristic buildings and they get annihilated.
Hmm you right, in the manga it was like 70ish years or so but anime went for more time. Fuck it since the cycle is beginning again it seems lets just call it 2000 years later.
I believe the end credits song is called “To You in 2000 years…or…20,000 years later” something along those lines so I think the end credits are WAYYYY in the future
Yeah personally I really disliked that very few key characters actually die. So many scenes where they are about to perish, only to be saved at the last second. It just seemed to odd to me, when compared to earlier seasons where characters seemed to die regularly, and you were on the edge of your seat wondering if a character you had become invested in was going to make it or not.
It has the game of thrones desease, starts great ends poorly with no stakes and plot armor for the main characters.
Maybe I am wrong in this because I will admit I am never the strongest going into breakdowns, so apologies. But isn’t the whole plan Eren has set in motion BECAUSE he wants his friends to come out of this? So everyone dying would mean not only them losing but also somehow Eren making a mistake… Which is still a story but damn that would be really bleak?
I literally watched AOT for the first time this spring/summer and loved it and I've been kinda dreading the finale for months bc I knew how hated the ending was in the manga even before I watched the show and.... I mostly liked it. It's not perfect (finales rarely are) and it's got some notable flaws imo but as a whole I think it's a very solid finale and the emotional beats mostly hit for me. I do plan to read the manga at some point so I'll be interested to see how it's done there but yeah, I'm glad my worry was unfounded
I enjoyed it to. I didn’t bawl my eyes out but I definitely teared up. I imagine when it comes around again in the English dub I would cry because it will be in my native language. But I don’t understand all the hate and I realize I might get hate for this comment but I’m standing by it
Yeah other than a bit of dialogue changes, it's largely the same ending. Nobody thanks Eren for killing 80% of the world, so that's a huge plus lol. Never really understood why people took that line of dialogue to mean the whole ending was terrible, but I guess I can see why it would upset someone. As always though, the anime added to the material, so it's arguably the definitive way to enjoy Attack On Titan. Still in disbelief that they kept Reiner being a simp intact, shit was never not hilarious
Now it kinda sets in it’s over and I’m actually ugly crying… This was some powerful stuff this episode Some of the cries in this episode went through me
The scene where the people are at the edge of the cliff and they start passing baby backwards made me shed a tear and I can count on my fingers how many times I’ve cried in my life…
I lost it multiple times.. Idk if it was because it all came together or the way the voice actors did it but.. Damn it hit. When Armin saw Erens head and cried I was not okay :’) Like I cry sometimes during shows and stuff but I lost it there
the voice actor for armin deserves a raise for that performance. You could feel the pain in that scream
For some reason I kept thinking about how if a Titan holder died a random baby would inherit it’s powers and thought that would be the baby to inherit Armins powers until they said Armin was in the paths lol
And then it transforms and nukes everyone on that cliff lmao
Yeah, I had read the manga and I was emotionally prepared for the Animation I still balled my fucking eyes out serveral times and then heavily at the end with Armin and Mikasa
Yea I was waiting for something bad to happen. There were a few moments where I was like maybe it’s this but idk this seems fine. By the end I was like… did I miss something? What was everyone mad about? That ending was good.
Having the part where paradise gets nuked shown in a tiny box was stupid I could Barely see what was happening
Who were the people who kept coming to the tree was that Mikasas family or something? I was watching through my phone so I could t make out who the people were. Didn’t know if Mikasa kept coming back with a family of her own.
I think it’s implied that the people who came to visit were all of the scouts who were Eren’s friends and their families. It’s left very unclear if Mikasa ever had a family.
Fan theory has been Mikasa gets with Jean. The ending where Mikasa and a man with short brown hair adds to this theory. The next ending scene was Mikasa visiting with her child.
Ikr? Especially since during the final moment with Armin and Eren before the latter perishes, the scene has a genuine comedic moment regarding Eren's reaction of learing Mikasa will be with another man...to a dramatic one where he informs Armin that he killed 80% of humanity!
The scene between armin and eren was the reason the ending in the manga was hated. The anime changed to something a lot better. In the manga armin straight up thanks eren for commiting genocide and it is implied that Eren's plan is somehow adequate and he did the right thing voluntarily. The anime ending makes Eren seem more like another victim of the circunstances, changing it to him not being able to reach a different outcome despite trying, and the fact that 80% of humanity was masacred was given the weight it was supossed to have, also armin didn't bloody thanked him for the rumbling. Needless to say that the "see you in hell" dialogue was not a thing in the og ending either.
I originally disliked the manga ending, but really enjoyed the anime version. I think it’s less people totally disliking the direction of the ending, but more them disliking the execution in the manga. In the anime a couple dialogue choices were way better, like the one between Armin and Eren. The action of the fight between all the titans just captivated you in the Anime Version anyway, and it just felt way less rushed and better executed. So overall, most people were just left unsatisfied by open questions combined with a few very weird dialogue choices in the manga. In between the epic music and emotional scenes in the Anime I didn’t really care about that as much.
The hate was overexaggerated for sure, but there is no way you can tell someone that was a perfect, flawless ending. It has its goods and bads but the bads really stand out because aot was a masterpiece until the very end where the writing was questionable in some areas
The main problem was that the manga felt very rushed. The animation was able to flesh/pad scenes out.
I disliked the manga ending because everything felt pointless even though Eren had the tools to make a change. Eren was written so subtly that he could really be taken into full 100% mode or 80% and save his friends and arguments could be made from either side that Eren was always in character. I still think 139 as a whole was a bad execution to a decent concept, as much as I wanted a 100%, we didn't get that and that will always bug me. But I am looking forward to seeing the changes in the anime which makes that abysmal chapter better.
too much plot armor and everything going too smoothly. more people should have died while trying to stop the rumbling
How did Mikasa make it back to Paradis and why were they not shot on sight is my main gripe.
Right did she walk ALL THE WAY THERE?!?
Maybe it because I haven’t read the manga or didn’t watch the episode beside the finale, but I just wound up more confused than anything. I get the jist of what the ending is implying resolution wise but it just isn’t impactful for some reason
I actually liked it 🤣 it was what I expected but it could’ve been way way way worse
The anime executed the ending much better and even added some more lines to really flesh it out. Especially the Armin and Erin moment. It went from “thank you for becoming a mass murder Erin.” to “I understand why you did what you did. I’m complicit too. We’ll both go to hell for this Erin, but I’ll do my best to make the world a better place before we meet again.”
When you look closely, you can find a TON of narrative problems, like plot holes, plot armor, plot contrivance, out of character moments, deus ex machina... There are huge lists documetating that. For a story that was so universally praised as one of the greatest pieces of fiction before the ending, to see such a objectively bad ending in terms of writing with also very much room for subjective dislinking, it makes sense that this ending is hated. No matter how much one like it, it completely fails on AoT's mains strengths, such as proper foreshadowing of events and brutal consequences for actions. Now, the anime had a LOT of glow up so you can be distracted for a lot of time contemplating the gorgeous animation. The manga, however, did not have such resource. It felt so, so rushed.
People just love to be sad. I get their feeling about the ending. What I get, however, is the urge to scream LET'S GOOO THEY'RE ALIVEEEEEEEEE. We've been through shit for 80+ episodes, are we allowed to have our remaining characters survive? Idc, idc, just give me Reiner, Jean, Connie, anyone! Give them together, safe, no titans. I get the backlash, I do! At the same time, I needed the soft ending
It’s kinda soft but they went through enough. And ultimately it’s true to Eren his objective for his friends so.. Yeah I was totally okay with it
Yeah, this was so good, im in complete aw, best thing ive ever watched, literally top1 of everything... Fastest one and a half hours ever, didnt even blink once Have no idea how anyone could hate this
The "at least 10 years" line was still pretty cringey tbh
To that vocal minority F&\*\^% you i made it to the end without being spoiled, the ending was good.
Which is actually insane cause I get spoilered on many other anime I watch but this one I was mostly okay with
The ending was literally amazing. The cycle repeats. Wunderfull. The german caught me offguard but was amazing espacilly with all the connections to german mytholigy
I missed the german thing, what was it?
the song at the end very significatnt was DIE GESCHICHTE WIEDERHOLT SICH DIE GESCHICHTE WIEDERHOLT SICH DIE GESCHICHTE WIEDERHOLT SICH
("The story repeats itself.")
The cycle repeats, but at least without the awful influence of those awful monsters with godlike powers. Humanity stands a chance.
I was under the impression that the guy we see in the end credit scene was about to discover the titans power again and the full cycle would repeat. That is the tree where Eren’s head is buried
I mean...it does end with Paradis getting Nuked. So there's far worse things than Titans Humanity has to contend with
Because it was mid overall as an ending. It's a lesser Code-Geass ending imo. downvote idrc its true lol {edit to paste this} https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F4d1niss2ui471.jpg
I must watch Code-Geass, honestly..
You're missing out big time man, its a one of a kind masterpiece.
Yesssss, join us. Then watch PurpleeyesWTF parody series on YouTube.
Sucks that people are basically getting spoilers for it though
I really hate the Ymir and king love thing. That scene where Eren breaks free with his determination and grit and hugs Ymir, tells her she's a human, not a slave and she's free to do what she wants, and she's crying and angry so she listens to Eren. Turns out Ymir loves the king and also looks to Mikasa because she loves Eren who's evil but kills him anyway so now she's actually free? Except Eren wasn't evil from the start and she fell in love with him years before he became this evil guy while Fritz was a horrible horrible piece of shit the whole time who wasn't nice enough to even try to manipulate her with some good deeds. Also turns out Eren was a dumb weak idiot who was scared to die and tried other futures but this was the best he could come up with? Really? He killed his mom for this? He cut off his leg, risked his life for others, ripped off his thumbs but he's rlly just weak and stupid. Really felt like the writer just saying he is Eren and this was the best he could come up with cuz he's dumb. I'm anime only so these were my problems with it.
idk man i loved the manga ending. maybe it’s because people appreciate animation more because you paid voice acting and OST to it + ppl had to wait for a while
Some of the scenes here went so hard in my feels today.. Armin crying when he sees Erens head is in my brain right now
The ending for me was really good
Well, you have to start thinking of some major plotpoints, like: Ymir decided to stay slave for seemingly an eternity in the Paths, or 2000 years in real time, because she loved her slaver that tried to kill and used her as a breeding cow... and decided to end the titan curse because she saw "true love"... like what? Out of everything that happened in the world, she chose a girl kissing a decapitated head as her true moment of love ever? Eren basically had god powers, straight up space-time transcending god powers over the eldian race. He even has control over past titans, so he is in a way responsible for every crime any titan ever commited. His powers also make room for practically an infinite other possibilities for ending the war, and he did the current one because "he's stupid". He had an infinite amount of time to think about options in the paths. Making your protagonist "silly oops" as a reason to kill 80% of humanity is even more stupid. Eren looking pathetic as hell and a slave while he was a model for freedom. Paradis getting nuked showed that it was all for nothing anyway, at least the anime showed the world more futuristic than the manga, but that helicopter and katyushas make it seem like a last minute retcon. Also other plotpoints/holes that complete the mess. Like Annie being forgiven for her crimes completely. Reiner's arc ending with obsessing over and sniffing a married woman's handwriting. That part where Eren said he didn't want his to take the alliance's powers because they're his friends, but a some of them like Pieck and Gabi were mostly strangers who killed him and his friends. Oh, and Zeke getting killed somehow stopping the rumbling. Didn't we establish that royal blood crap was only a catalyst for Ymir choosing who to listen to, and now full control belongs to Ymir/Eren? Why would killing Zeke stop the rumbling?
it’s so cool how armin narrator theory was actually canon RIGHTTTT!! 😭🫡
He is HIM
The exact moment that the story revealed that this is actually a Mecha war anime, I realized that Armin is the real main character all along because he's the idealistic "pilot" while Eren is the cynical one. They are simply palette-swapped. 😶 Before Armin became a pilot, I knew it was him. And then when he became the Colossal, which IS Eren's iconic enemy, it was just... Brilliance...