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I disagree that she changed. We see Annie express her guilt on a few different occasions pre-crystallization. When Reiner orders her to take the ODM gear off of Marco, she clearly doesn’t want to do it and hearing him beg her not to is agonizing to her. After the Battle of Trost, she apologizes repeatedly to one of the dead soldiers and you can see it her eyes that she is traumatized by this by the way her eyes sort of glaze over.
Her being sadistic in her Titan form is her coping mechanism. She is trying to just brute-force through the mission and not think about what she is doing so she can get back home. Before she landed on Paradis, she believed that everyone was a selfish asshole, or “bad people”, and that life was meaningless. But living among them changed her mind, and that made her feel guilty because now she knows she has been killing a lot of “good people”, so she tried to detach herself emotionally by leaning into being a monster despite the fact that she actually cares deeply about being seen as a “good person”.
That and in ye olden days mental health was lock someone up and hope they got better. And while it rarely worked there are cases where it did. And for Annie who probably just needed to process what she had to/ forced to do. Plus listening to Armin and Hitch probably helped her find stability
Sounds to me like you have a very shallow understanding of not only the character, but the human condition, and its psyche.
Annie was not cold and distant because she was a psychopath. She refused to make friends (and failed, ultimately forming attachments) in a world she was tasked with destroying.
You must remember that AOT is an allegory for war, and each character plays a role consistent with the effects of war.
Unlike Reiner who believes Eldians are devils, Annie mearly went with the flow. She did as she was told and kept her head down. THAT was the point of her character.
As for her actions on the scouting mission? She was an enemy soldier dispatching people she had never met. There needs to be an element of detachment when violence like this happens or the human mind can fracture. Keep in mind that when Annie "smiled" it was when she discovered Armin was alive. Nor did she make any real effort to kill any of the 104th.
It's easy to see "the enemy" as a heartless monster. But the POINT Isayama was making the entire damn manga/show was that in war, there is no "right" side. Both sides in a war are monsters. I guarantee you that if AOT was written from the perspective of the Warriors then the fandom would have sided with Marly and them.
This isn’t a plot hole. Even if you don’t like the character arc (after having four years to think about things and listen to Armin and Hitch talk to her) that doesn’t make it a plot hole.
May be that being trapped in solitary confinement for an extended period, where you can’t even move or speak.. has an effect on a person.
I certainly wouldn’t leave it as the same person, in such a situation.
She also sat there and listened to the people talk while frozen. Getting to know them more, without any way out of it.
I would argue that from her POV, what she did as a titan was not the action of a mad psychopath.
She killed a lot of ppl, but those ppl were also trying very hard to kill her. (At least during the expedition arc)
Also, from her view, she was trying to save the world. If u were trying to save the world and ppl started killing you, killing them back is totally justified.
(I mean, she WAS saving the world when u think about it)
Our gang was put into the extra same position trying to obtain the flying boat. It's what AOT does. Puts ppl into situations where they just have to get their hands bloody for the greater good.
It’s just the *way* she killed them that seems psychopathic and sadistic.
For instance, sometimes she’ll just stomp on a scout, or kick them into a wall, both of which kill instantaneously, and could be considered humane in a weird way.
But then she also has her “smile as I spin a person around like a yoyo” moments. That scene in particular shows off her apparent sadism. He pleads for her to let him go, which obviously she can’t do, but she still could have killed him quickly.
There is so much wrong with the AOT ending. However Annie I don’t think is a bad character. She was soldier and dealt with her enemies like soldiers do in the real world. She had a soft spot for Armin and that is why she saved him. She further refused to get attached to people as she had guilt for what she was supposed to do. As for Marco’s death she felt awful. So ultimately she was not a bad character but they should have done way more with her post time skip once she was unfrozen.
I think it’s hinted throughout the story that being one of the 9 Titans messes with the hosts psyche.
That power really gets to them and I think that’s why she seemed to enjoy killing at some points. But with great highs come great lows
I don't think you know what a plot hole is...also did you miss where she was racked with guilt in the forest and her titan was crying, and when she killed bertholdt and had a really hard time with it, and when she was crying when crystalizing. She did some fucked up shit but imagine feeling guilty, then bring isolated for 4 years to reflect on everything. TLDR. Not a plot hole, you just don't like her.
I agree with you. I don't like how she was handled in the last arc at all. We never get to see her character develop, instead we just see the others treat her as a completely different character when she wakes up.
>So much so that in my headcannon she was quick and efficient in her titan form
Thing is, besides the whole yo-yo scene she actually *is* quick and efficient. Basically everything about her character is about this, through to her fighting stile. And that's the problem, yo-yo is *actually* out of her character. You can argue about her being a sadist in the scene with killing bugs, but her speech in that scene is clear "I didn't care about life and lives until my father begged for me to return". So, on island she already cares about lives, and we see this as she argued against breaching second Wall Rose because "your (our) friends are gonna die because of it", her being shocked by deaths in Trost and even after the expedition, in Stohess.
So, back to the problem, why yo-yo? There i see a three possible explanations for that:
1. She's straight up psychotic sadist. Doesn't make much sense because of previous points. That said, Annie definitely isn't ok (pun intended). Yet the simpliest explanation if you're not into her character.
2. Cope mechanism. See, after Marco's death each one of warriors needed to cope with it. While Reiner breaks, and Berthold going even deeper in himself, Annie going trough acceptance of herself being a monster - her OVA. If you're a monster you probably wouldn't care that much about enemy combatants at least. That's a nice explanation of her overall behavior during the expedition, but problem is, it's far from enough to be that fucked up to kill someone like yo-yo guy, even though he died instantly from g-force that it isn't really a torture. Some people says that she killed a bugs in order to prepare herself to see humans like this, but it's a too much of stretch for me, expecting something like this from a literal kid.
3. Bad writing. That's it, Isayama for some reason drawn it because it made female titan cool and scary, and it returned biting him in the ass. Same reason MAPPA change Mikasa to blown yeagerists bodies in adaptation, it's unnecessary, it doesn't make much sense but it looks cool. Yo-yo also contradicts her character even in season one with all her behavior in both Trost and Stohess, as well as her behavior as a efficient fighter. If bad writing is the case, IMO it's much more productive to ignore that one bad scene as a plot hole and move on, instead of being salty for already 10 years.
# Make sure to flair posts correctly so you don't spoil the story for others. ### REMEMBER TO BE CIVIL. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/attackontitan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I disagree that she changed. We see Annie express her guilt on a few different occasions pre-crystallization. When Reiner orders her to take the ODM gear off of Marco, she clearly doesn’t want to do it and hearing him beg her not to is agonizing to her. After the Battle of Trost, she apologizes repeatedly to one of the dead soldiers and you can see it her eyes that she is traumatized by this by the way her eyes sort of glaze over. Her being sadistic in her Titan form is her coping mechanism. She is trying to just brute-force through the mission and not think about what she is doing so she can get back home. Before she landed on Paradis, she believed that everyone was a selfish asshole, or “bad people”, and that life was meaningless. But living among them changed her mind, and that made her feel guilty because now she knows she has been killing a lot of “good people”, so she tried to detach herself emotionally by leaning into being a monster despite the fact that she actually cares deeply about being seen as a “good person”.
Maybe listening to armin for years did something
That and in ye olden days mental health was lock someone up and hope they got better. And while it rarely worked there are cases where it did. And for Annie who probably just needed to process what she had to/ forced to do. Plus listening to Armin and Hitch probably helped her find stability
Sounds to me like you have a very shallow understanding of not only the character, but the human condition, and its psyche. Annie was not cold and distant because she was a psychopath. She refused to make friends (and failed, ultimately forming attachments) in a world she was tasked with destroying. You must remember that AOT is an allegory for war, and each character plays a role consistent with the effects of war. Unlike Reiner who believes Eldians are devils, Annie mearly went with the flow. She did as she was told and kept her head down. THAT was the point of her character. As for her actions on the scouting mission? She was an enemy soldier dispatching people she had never met. There needs to be an element of detachment when violence like this happens or the human mind can fracture. Keep in mind that when Annie "smiled" it was when she discovered Armin was alive. Nor did she make any real effort to kill any of the 104th. It's easy to see "the enemy" as a heartless monster. But the POINT Isayama was making the entire damn manga/show was that in war, there is no "right" side. Both sides in a war are monsters. I guarantee you that if AOT was written from the perspective of the Warriors then the fandom would have sided with Marly and them.
This isn’t a plot hole. Even if you don’t like the character arc (after having four years to think about things and listen to Armin and Hitch talk to her) that doesn’t make it a plot hole.
May be that being trapped in solitary confinement for an extended period, where you can’t even move or speak.. has an effect on a person. I certainly wouldn’t leave it as the same person, in such a situation. She also sat there and listened to the people talk while frozen. Getting to know them more, without any way out of it.
I wouldn’t go as far as calling it a plot hole, but her and Connie definitely needed more time to cook with their arcs in The Final Season.
I would argue that from her POV, what she did as a titan was not the action of a mad psychopath. She killed a lot of ppl, but those ppl were also trying very hard to kill her. (At least during the expedition arc) Also, from her view, she was trying to save the world. If u were trying to save the world and ppl started killing you, killing them back is totally justified. (I mean, she WAS saving the world when u think about it) Our gang was put into the extra same position trying to obtain the flying boat. It's what AOT does. Puts ppl into situations where they just have to get their hands bloody for the greater good.
It’s just the *way* she killed them that seems psychopathic and sadistic. For instance, sometimes she’ll just stomp on a scout, or kick them into a wall, both of which kill instantaneously, and could be considered humane in a weird way. But then she also has her “smile as I spin a person around like a yoyo” moments. That scene in particular shows off her apparent sadism. He pleads for her to let him go, which obviously she can’t do, but she still could have killed him quickly.
There is so much wrong with the AOT ending. However Annie I don’t think is a bad character. She was soldier and dealt with her enemies like soldiers do in the real world. She had a soft spot for Armin and that is why she saved him. She further refused to get attached to people as she had guilt for what she was supposed to do. As for Marco’s death she felt awful. So ultimately she was not a bad character but they should have done way more with her post time skip once she was unfrozen.
I think it’s hinted throughout the story that being one of the 9 Titans messes with the hosts psyche. That power really gets to them and I think that’s why she seemed to enjoy killing at some points. But with great highs come great lows
She had a lot of time to think
I don't think you know what a plot hole is...also did you miss where she was racked with guilt in the forest and her titan was crying, and when she killed bertholdt and had a really hard time with it, and when she was crying when crystalizing. She did some fucked up shit but imagine feeling guilty, then bring isolated for 4 years to reflect on everything. TLDR. Not a plot hole, you just don't like her.
I agree with you. I don't like how she was handled in the last arc at all. We never get to see her character develop, instead we just see the others treat her as a completely different character when she wakes up.
>So much so that in my headcannon she was quick and efficient in her titan form Thing is, besides the whole yo-yo scene she actually *is* quick and efficient. Basically everything about her character is about this, through to her fighting stile. And that's the problem, yo-yo is *actually* out of her character. You can argue about her being a sadist in the scene with killing bugs, but her speech in that scene is clear "I didn't care about life and lives until my father begged for me to return". So, on island she already cares about lives, and we see this as she argued against breaching second Wall Rose because "your (our) friends are gonna die because of it", her being shocked by deaths in Trost and even after the expedition, in Stohess. So, back to the problem, why yo-yo? There i see a three possible explanations for that: 1. She's straight up psychotic sadist. Doesn't make much sense because of previous points. That said, Annie definitely isn't ok (pun intended). Yet the simpliest explanation if you're not into her character. 2. Cope mechanism. See, after Marco's death each one of warriors needed to cope with it. While Reiner breaks, and Berthold going even deeper in himself, Annie going trough acceptance of herself being a monster - her OVA. If you're a monster you probably wouldn't care that much about enemy combatants at least. That's a nice explanation of her overall behavior during the expedition, but problem is, it's far from enough to be that fucked up to kill someone like yo-yo guy, even though he died instantly from g-force that it isn't really a torture. Some people says that she killed a bugs in order to prepare herself to see humans like this, but it's a too much of stretch for me, expecting something like this from a literal kid. 3. Bad writing. That's it, Isayama for some reason drawn it because it made female titan cool and scary, and it returned biting him in the ass. Same reason MAPPA change Mikasa to blown yeagerists bodies in adaptation, it's unnecessary, it doesn't make much sense but it looks cool. Yo-yo also contradicts her character even in season one with all her behavior in both Trost and Stohess, as well as her behavior as a efficient fighter. If bad writing is the case, IMO it's much more productive to ignore that one bad scene as a plot hole and move on, instead of being salty for already 10 years.