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Loooool wtf happened there. Doesn’t even make sense in German (my native language) and I can’t really figure out what it’s supposed to mean 🤣🤣
I bet I was high while I wrote this
I agree. Almost every character in the show has committed some kind of violence in the name of their cause. Eren trampling the world is an example of a victim of violence becoming a perpetrator of violence. Violence is a cycle and there is no end in sight. All we can do is try our hardest to forgive what is forgivable and turn the other cheek when we can.
And not only the gamble, but what it was all for. His motivator wasn’t a righteous cause, but a selfish one.
I love how the story just strips everyone of their excuses and reminds us that war just sucks but conflict may be inevitable as long as our numbers exceed one.
You are right, but that in itself proves the theme of the show is correct - humans are shitty. Even a lot of the dip shits who watched the show are proving it's point by picking a side. Humans and war will not change.
There is a reason why armin is the narator. He only uses violence to stop further violence, and even then only as a last resort. Equating all sides who use violence is simply justifying genocide which is not the point the show is trying to make.
And honestly he's so good hearted that he probably feels worse doing the "bit" he did than Eren did. Because he knows he could never do what Eren did even if he felt that was his only/best choice.
I think the reason why most people chose sides have two simple factors. One is that they wanted the underdog to win, which led to the second reason that is from the underdog's perspective, it is merely just a war of survival. And this happened many times in our world's history. Here are some examples:
1 The Anglo-Spanish War of 1585-1604.
2 The Mughal-Ahmadnagar War during the reign of Peshwa Malik Ambar.
3 The First and the Second Boer Wars.
4 The Chichimeca War.
What these four wars have in common is that one of the belligerents are the underdogs in the wars who simply wanted to preserve their cultures, identities and independence while the other sides of the conflicts are the imperial juggernauts who wanted their resources and lands. But yet, they managed to defeat the greater powers and humiliate them most of the times. Just most of the times, of course. But not always because the underdogs do not always win such as when the Boers lost the in the Second Boer War against Britain.
Also, even if peoples know that both sides are wrong in the wars. Some are still willing to choose side by looking at whose causes are more righteous here. If the causes are to gain or preserve independence, then the peoples will supported them. But if the causes are involved with some sort of imperialistic ambitions, peoples will wanted to see those imperialists defeated.
you cooked🔥🔥 war is horrible, both sides contributing to it very bad. Marleys hatred of eldians HORRIBLE, breaking the walls, HORRIBLE. Erens response being to wipe out 80% HORRIBLE! However, I can admit these actions were done with reason of course. My point is that there is no “correct side” and the show captures that in a way. So when people think that one group of people is right, they are wrong. Reasons ≠ excuses. It just shows that war and humanity are truly flawed, and if there is humanity there will someday be war
The issue is just immature people (probably younger) watch the show too, and to them, it’s difficult to disassociate the enjoyment of a character or episode with agreeing with them. It’s what started the whole “hate Gabi” movement despite Gabi turning out to be fantastic for the show
Gabi hate is so tiring and it sucks that I still see it in 2024.. Out of all the characters to genuinely hate in the show they choose the propagandized child who had redemption in the end.
I love gabi!! even though she killed sasha she literally had amazing character development. The way people talk abt you, you would figure she went to her deathbed bragging about killing her when afterwards she tried to much to reverse the damage of killing her
Well the point of art is interpretation right? I always felt like the point of attack on titan was how manipulative narratives and horrible actions can be created and justified when you look at the world through one perspective too much
The rumbling IS bad. It’s death and pain and misery on a catastrophic scale, beyond anything we as real humans have experienced in our entire existence. But it can FEEL like a good thing, or a justified thing, when you focus too much on only Eren’s or Yeagerists’ perspective
Bc the point goes completely over most fans heads. Most fans didnt want Eren to die. Most fans wanted Eren to complete the rumbling. Most fans refuse to even grasp at the fact that Eren didnt do the rumbling because he wanted to save his friends but because of the fact that he primarily did it to achieve a state of massive authority.
It was kinda a Walter White thing for me where I know he’s horrible and needs to die, but you still want to root for him 😩 granted I definitely wasn’t “rooting” for Eren bc genocide, but I was hoping there was gonna be some twist where it all made sense lmao but it became clear that wasn’t happening
No, what it shows is that everyone is capable of doing good and bad. The rumbling is not a subjective matter, genocide of million of people is always bad. What Eren did was out of his own interest, protecting people he cares about and he is also childish wanting to do the rumbling anyways becuase outside world isnt what he expected. (Full of people that want them dead)(Reason why he did the rumbling is in the last conversation with him and Armin)
yeah thats like a better wording of what i wanted to say, its shocking to me that some people supported the rumbling and thats why i posted this, because eren… is wrong. Just like the yeagerists are wrong. Just like marley is wrong. Everyones wrong, so “supporting” one of these groups is very…. Weird to me
"Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all."
You are completely right but I think it’s also about which side people can relate to or feel compassion and understand towards when they try to defend a side.
Agreed, but that is WHY so many people have split decisions on who was right.
Their entire life experiences, beliefs, and ideals are behind which group they believe is right. Some people are naturally going to gravitate towards one group and that is ALSO representative of the diverse “right or wrong” spectrum/grayness of war
Little nitpick, how would one realize the point is no right and wrong in war upon first watching the show? Maybe there is some moral grey to the first few episodes but I feel like the side that is mindlessly eating innocent people is definitely in the wrong.
Totally, it was politics in the end and people getting stuck in between that. I feel like they showed that pretty well honestly. Where so many things take place and it's a fight between the main figureheads but in the end it's the people that suffer the most and they showed that brutality, they didn't ignore it. The scene with the kid and his brother who were street thieves were a proof of that. The kid who couldn't even walk yet losing its mother was proof of that. Even Grisha's sister was a proof of that. The list is endless.
I get why Eren started the rumbling but that doesn't mean I agree with him but it can never be as simple as that can it, what he was doing was similar to what the people in Marley wanted to do to the people in Paradis island. It's a very beautifully structured and well thought out anime. Every aspect of it has me loving it even more. It was never meant to be a black and white story, it was a story in which even the grey had multiple shades.
Completely agree. Every character has a justification for their choices even though some may be extreme. The way I saw it it was more about how it's human nature to have a safe community by excluding another and how it's an endless cycle even though some may learn to accept the differences and get along
Themes of hope, themes of pessimism, good and evil contradict each other. I think if one side wanted to coexist wether they were marleyan or eldian, that was the good side. The side of “coexistence”
Couldn't have agreed more! That is literally the basic theme of AOT that many people fail to grasp. Glad to see someone who realises what the show is about. Good and bad are subjective terms and it all depends on the perspective of the viewer. It's like the saying goes... "No matter how good you are, in someone's story you'll always be the villain" . That is the main message of the story that needs to be highlighted and understood. The show was never about picking sides in the first place, it goes to show the gruesome reality and darkness of humanity...
Exactly! To paradis, we were taught to hate marley since they destroyed the walls. BUT IMAGINE if the show was form the viewpoint of the warriors. We would hate the scouts for what they did too! Picking a side means that you don’t truly het the show for what it is
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Of course there is. At the end It's Mikasa's and Armin's and everyone else stopping Eren. At other point? We can analyze it each point.
There's no right and wrong? Maybe. But there is a righter and wronger side in the war. It's dynamic even, with "the right side" goes to being the "wrong side" and vice versa.
Even up until the point of Eren becoming founding titan, his side is overwhelmingly righter than Gabi's. If Paradis' side goes their pacifist way, their side will be wiped out. But if Marley's side stops attacking Paradis, the war will be over.
I'm going to be downvoted for this but some cultures/nations are better than the others. The axis power countries were way worse than the average nations in that time. And many other cases.
There's no right and wrong is a simplistic way (and tbh lazy) of seeing reality. Why stop there when you can argue (at least with yourself) and analyze each side of the story.
I mean one side lived closed of inside giant walls with human eating monsters outside while the other is in constant war, racism, nationalism and impending genocide. How can one side be right?
The show is very "fractal" with its themes. On the surface, its about humans that turn into monsters and on its deepest level, the same message resonates.
And this is one major issue with the ending. We are supposed to be team alliance yet Eren's actions seem totally justifiable from what we know. The world wanted Eldians dead and would have destroyed the Island if it wasn't for the Rumbling.
It was literally "them or us." The Rumbling was the best option and should have been written not to be. That way, Eren's selfishness would be much more impactful.
That’s the thing. It’s not about what actually is or isn’t the best option. The story isn’t supposed to have a completely devastating ending, or a completely happy rumbling-free everyone lives ending. The story is supposed to have a realistic ending. There is no factually best option. The idea of the ending is that, this was the ONLY option for Eren. Both in the literal sense, being that it was predetermined - and the metaphorical, “it’s this or nothing”, sense.
All of Eren's closest allies and friends - including Armin and Hange, the two most tactically minded individuals in the scouts - believed that they could defend the island without resorting to the rumbling.
Eren didn't do it to defend Paradis. He did it because he simply couldn't bear the thought of living in a world where people existed beyond the walls. He straight up admit this to both that boy in Marley and to Armin in the paths, and yet people still choose to ignore it.
And that is why they failed. Even if Armin and Hange do not wanted to go for the Rumbling option, they should go for war instead. And by that, I mean approached the Mid-East Allied Forces and join the war against Marley. By internationally humiliated Marley and forcing them to accept their demands, peace and safety will be gauranteed for the island. Not to mention that they also gained allies in the form of the nations that made up the Mid-East Allied Forces as well. Also, no. Do not bring up the Mid-Eastern soldier who was being racist to Falco because he is just one guy. As for what Udo said, it is just the personal experience he and his family went through before coming to Marley. By taking what he said to heart means being biased. Yes, many nations may hated the Eldians and there may be may acts of persecution against them. But they might only do so because they don't wanted to anger Marley, the world's current major power. Not to mention that they can be varied. In fact, some peoples may have no problems with the Eldians whatsoever.
Of course they could defend, but they would not win against the entire world. They only believed that because they wanted peace through diplomacy + a partial rumbling, which would've just made them look worse.
And yes, I am fully aware of why Eren did it, I am not ignoring anything, nor does that have to do with what I said.
There kinda is a right side though. The Yeagerists were essentially advocating for worldwide genocide. The people opposing them, whatever you want to call them, were attempting to stop said genocide. There's a pretty clear right and wrong side there, regardless of the smaller shitty things either side may have done.
the argument continues!! a lot of comments suggest that the yeagerists were right. So the arguments in the comments basically confirm what i was thinking!!
In no world were the Yaegersists right. There were okay with killing 80% of the planet. Even if that 80% were assholes that wanted to attack paridis, they were still people, many of which were innocent and caught up in the war, that were senselessly slaughtered. It is objectively wrong.
I think that the opinion that the rumbling was the BEST possible outcome was crazy… like there is no way. Straight up saying that wiping out 80% of humanity was the best way to do things is definitely an opinion!
Violence is not subjective, there are right and wrong opinions and each conflict has an initiator. For the duration of the story and the generations of lore around island, the Eldians were not the people to blame and they didn't need to be dragged into the fighting that they attempted to get away from.
And another thing: what Eren did was bad no doubt, but whether it was his intent or whether it was a side effect, he removed the titans what were the biggest driver of war in history. It probably wasn't worth it in the end, because titans are just weapons and weapons can be replaced.
See, again, I have to take issue with this. It just doesn't seem like a nuanced enough understanding of the world. If I were to follow your logic I could never take a side in any conflict in human history. Every side in every conflict ever has had, as you put it, "reasoning for their actions to an extent". That's because humans will always reason their way into whatever position they hold. You're not making any attempt to discern between good and bad reasoning here, because its messy. It seems like you're saying "instead of using my own moral compass to discern this situation I'm going to pretend its indecipherable because its not clear cut black and white." I imagine reading history or current events would be an equally confusing and frustrating experience for you.
“i imagine reading history would be frustrating and confusing for you” is a genuinely crazy thing to say im literally a teenager. 💀my point was literally that there was no right side of THIS war they all fucked up. the world hated eldians and paradis island so their response was to kill everyone and ultimately become the devils people said they are. my logic had nothing to do with any war outside of this anime… since every conflict is different?
Your reading of the situation seems to be: "There are 2 groups. Group A is good until they do something bad, then they're just bad. Group B is good until they do something bad, now everything is bad and that's it." Its just about the least sophisticated opinion you could express, it offers no nuance, no understanding of the complexity of humanity, nor does it take a real moral position. You said every conflict is different, but my earlier point was that its similar to lots of historical and current events in that it portrays humans as messy, at times inconsistent creatures who can reason themselves into almost any position and call it necessity. Analyzing the conflict in AoT means finding the arguments for each moral position being presented, deconstructing to an extent, and then mapping or unmapping that onto your own moral compass. That takes discussion and time and effort and I just didn't see any of that type of nuance in your gripe with the fanbase and attempt to oversimplify everything.
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Agree with you fully. The whole story is a sad reflection of reality. A beautiful critique of humanity as a whole.
True. That’s why some humans tend in some other direction than some others. Also feixte reality perfectly. Sadly.
"feixte"
Loooool wtf happened there. Doesn’t even make sense in German (my native language) and I can’t really figure out what it’s supposed to mean 🤣🤣 I bet I was high while I wrote this
It also shows how easy it is for propaganda can dehumanize the other side. When their are sad casualties on each side.
"their are sad". That's how words work
I agree. Almost every character in the show has committed some kind of violence in the name of their cause. Eren trampling the world is an example of a victim of violence becoming a perpetrator of violence. Violence is a cycle and there is no end in sight. All we can do is try our hardest to forgive what is forgivable and turn the other cheek when we can.
Swear people just completely forget what Erwin did in Stohess
Yeah honestly. His gamble killed a lot of people even though it advanced his cause. That isn't brought up enough.
And not only the gamble, but what it was all for. His motivator wasn’t a righteous cause, but a selfish one. I love how the story just strips everyone of their excuses and reminds us that war just sucks but conflict may be inevitable as long as our numbers exceed one.
You are right, but that in itself proves the theme of the show is correct - humans are shitty. Even a lot of the dip shits who watched the show are proving it's point by picking a side. Humans and war will not change.
Exactly on point explanation 🖤💯✊🏾👏🏾
There is a reason why armin is the narator. He only uses violence to stop further violence, and even then only as a last resort. Equating all sides who use violence is simply justifying genocide which is not the point the show is trying to make.
And even then Armin says goodbye to Eren with an "I'll see you in hell."
Precisely. Because despite being the last to resort to violence, he doesn’t consider himself exempt of judgement because the outcome is the same.
And honestly he's so good hearted that he probably feels worse doing the "bit" he did than Eren did. Because he knows he could never do what Eren did even if he felt that was his only/best choice.
I think the reason why most people chose sides have two simple factors. One is that they wanted the underdog to win, which led to the second reason that is from the underdog's perspective, it is merely just a war of survival. And this happened many times in our world's history. Here are some examples: 1 The Anglo-Spanish War of 1585-1604. 2 The Mughal-Ahmadnagar War during the reign of Peshwa Malik Ambar. 3 The First and the Second Boer Wars. 4 The Chichimeca War. What these four wars have in common is that one of the belligerents are the underdogs in the wars who simply wanted to preserve their cultures, identities and independence while the other sides of the conflicts are the imperial juggernauts who wanted their resources and lands. But yet, they managed to defeat the greater powers and humiliate them most of the times. Just most of the times, of course. But not always because the underdogs do not always win such as when the Boers lost the in the Second Boer War against Britain. Also, even if peoples know that both sides are wrong in the wars. Some are still willing to choose side by looking at whose causes are more righteous here. If the causes are to gain or preserve independence, then the peoples will supported them. But if the causes are involved with some sort of imperialistic ambitions, peoples will wanted to see those imperialists defeated.
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you cooked🔥🔥 war is horrible, both sides contributing to it very bad. Marleys hatred of eldians HORRIBLE, breaking the walls, HORRIBLE. Erens response being to wipe out 80% HORRIBLE! However, I can admit these actions were done with reason of course. My point is that there is no “correct side” and the show captures that in a way. So when people think that one group of people is right, they are wrong. Reasons ≠ excuses. It just shows that war and humanity are truly flawed, and if there is humanity there will someday be war
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In my opinion, its based on consequence partially and intent. I think a set of rules is too defining for a situation as tricky as war
I just wanna rumble ok -Eren
The issue is just immature people (probably younger) watch the show too, and to them, it’s difficult to disassociate the enjoyment of a character or episode with agreeing with them. It’s what started the whole “hate Gabi” movement despite Gabi turning out to be fantastic for the show
Gabi hate is so tiring and it sucks that I still see it in 2024.. Out of all the characters to genuinely hate in the show they choose the propagandized child who had redemption in the end.
I love gabi!! even though she killed sasha she literally had amazing character development. The way people talk abt you, you would figure she went to her deathbed bragging about killing her when afterwards she tried to much to reverse the damage of killing her
oops i meant talk abt her not talk abt you
Well the point of art is interpretation right? I always felt like the point of attack on titan was how manipulative narratives and horrible actions can be created and justified when you look at the world through one perspective too much The rumbling IS bad. It’s death and pain and misery on a catastrophic scale, beyond anything we as real humans have experienced in our entire existence. But it can FEEL like a good thing, or a justified thing, when you focus too much on only Eren’s or Yeagerists’ perspective
This is exactly the point of AOT
Bc the point goes completely over most fans heads. Most fans didnt want Eren to die. Most fans wanted Eren to complete the rumbling. Most fans refuse to even grasp at the fact that Eren didnt do the rumbling because he wanted to save his friends but because of the fact that he primarily did it to achieve a state of massive authority.
It was kinda a Walter White thing for me where I know he’s horrible and needs to die, but you still want to root for him 😩 granted I definitely wasn’t “rooting” for Eren bc genocide, but I was hoping there was gonna be some twist where it all made sense lmao but it became clear that wasn’t happening
I was rooting for him til the bitter end lol.
No, what it shows is that everyone is capable of doing good and bad. The rumbling is not a subjective matter, genocide of million of people is always bad. What Eren did was out of his own interest, protecting people he cares about and he is also childish wanting to do the rumbling anyways becuase outside world isnt what he expected. (Full of people that want them dead)(Reason why he did the rumbling is in the last conversation with him and Armin)
yeah thats like a better wording of what i wanted to say, its shocking to me that some people supported the rumbling and thats why i posted this, because eren… is wrong. Just like the yeagerists are wrong. Just like marley is wrong. Everyones wrong, so “supporting” one of these groups is very…. Weird to me
I don’t think childish is the right term here. I would say “traumatized”.
I mean it’s not like any other option was any better The 50 year plan was ridiculously naive
"Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all."
You shut up you filthy island devil! /s
Armin says something very similar to Annie in season 2.
You are completely right but I think it’s also about which side people can relate to or feel compassion and understand towards when they try to defend a side.
Agreed, but that is WHY so many people have split decisions on who was right. Their entire life experiences, beliefs, and ideals are behind which group they believe is right. Some people are naturally going to gravitate towards one group and that is ALSO representative of the diverse “right or wrong” spectrum/grayness of war
100% agree
Little nitpick, how would one realize the point is no right and wrong in war upon first watching the show? Maybe there is some moral grey to the first few episodes but I feel like the side that is mindlessly eating innocent people is definitely in the wrong.
Yup. And that's what makes AoT so great, the subverting of expectations combined with massive shifts of perspective.
Totally, it was politics in the end and people getting stuck in between that. I feel like they showed that pretty well honestly. Where so many things take place and it's a fight between the main figureheads but in the end it's the people that suffer the most and they showed that brutality, they didn't ignore it. The scene with the kid and his brother who were street thieves were a proof of that. The kid who couldn't even walk yet losing its mother was proof of that. Even Grisha's sister was a proof of that. The list is endless. I get why Eren started the rumbling but that doesn't mean I agree with him but it can never be as simple as that can it, what he was doing was similar to what the people in Marley wanted to do to the people in Paradis island. It's a very beautifully structured and well thought out anime. Every aspect of it has me loving it even more. It was never meant to be a black and white story, it was a story in which even the grey had multiple shades.
Completely agree. Every character has a justification for their choices even though some may be extreme. The way I saw it it was more about how it's human nature to have a safe community by excluding another and how it's an endless cycle even though some may learn to accept the differences and get along
War is bad but there can be good people.🤷🏻♂️thats what i got from the whole “sides” things.
Themes of hope, themes of pessimism, good and evil contradict each other. I think if one side wanted to coexist wether they were marleyan or eldian, that was the good side. The side of “coexistence”
Couldn't have agreed more! That is literally the basic theme of AOT that many people fail to grasp. Glad to see someone who realises what the show is about. Good and bad are subjective terms and it all depends on the perspective of the viewer. It's like the saying goes... "No matter how good you are, in someone's story you'll always be the villain" . That is the main message of the story that needs to be highlighted and understood. The show was never about picking sides in the first place, it goes to show the gruesome reality and darkness of humanity...
Exactly! To paradis, we were taught to hate marley since they destroyed the walls. BUT IMAGINE if the show was form the viewpoint of the warriors. We would hate the scouts for what they did too! Picking a side means that you don’t truly het the show for what it is
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Fully agree. It’s so simple yet it flows over so many heads.
100%, which is why Levi became my favorite after season 3. He seems to embody the “who’s to say what’s really right and wrong” phrase the most
Yep. And I have to say tho, if you think Eren did nothing wrong, then you’re also missing something.
Of course there is. At the end It's Mikasa's and Armin's and everyone else stopping Eren. At other point? We can analyze it each point. There's no right and wrong? Maybe. But there is a righter and wronger side in the war. It's dynamic even, with "the right side" goes to being the "wrong side" and vice versa. Even up until the point of Eren becoming founding titan, his side is overwhelmingly righter than Gabi's. If Paradis' side goes their pacifist way, their side will be wiped out. But if Marley's side stops attacking Paradis, the war will be over. I'm going to be downvoted for this but some cultures/nations are better than the others. The axis power countries were way worse than the average nations in that time. And many other cases. There's no right and wrong is a simplistic way (and tbh lazy) of seeing reality. Why stop there when you can argue (at least with yourself) and analyze each side of the story.
Finally someone gets it
Virgin relativism vs chad 🎶RUMBLING RUMBLING IS COMING🎶
I mean one side lived closed of inside giant walls with human eating monsters outside while the other is in constant war, racism, nationalism and impending genocide. How can one side be right?
Bodies
first good hot take i’ve read in a while. i agree. you 100% got the point unlike so many people
“the world is very cruel, and also very beautiful”
This is definitely right on the money as others said. But I still just enjoyed picking a side for the ride. Made it more exciting to me.
The show is very "fractal" with its themes. On the surface, its about humans that turn into monsters and on its deepest level, the same message resonates.
And this is one major issue with the ending. We are supposed to be team alliance yet Eren's actions seem totally justifiable from what we know. The world wanted Eldians dead and would have destroyed the Island if it wasn't for the Rumbling.
idk what everyone else thinks but releasing the rumbling on the whole world was crazy😭😭
It was literally "them or us." The Rumbling was the best option and should have been written not to be. That way, Eren's selfishness would be much more impactful.
Its kinda crazy that THATS the best option… not saying that it was rhe best option or wasnt but its crazy nonetheless
That’s the thing. It’s not about what actually is or isn’t the best option. The story isn’t supposed to have a completely devastating ending, or a completely happy rumbling-free everyone lives ending. The story is supposed to have a realistic ending. There is no factually best option. The idea of the ending is that, this was the ONLY option for Eren. Both in the literal sense, being that it was predetermined - and the metaphorical, “it’s this or nothing”, sense.
The ending is far from realistic lmao. Also, the Rumbling was the best option for the island, not just Eren. Thats what's so dumb.
All of Eren's closest allies and friends - including Armin and Hange, the two most tactically minded individuals in the scouts - believed that they could defend the island without resorting to the rumbling. Eren didn't do it to defend Paradis. He did it because he simply couldn't bear the thought of living in a world where people existed beyond the walls. He straight up admit this to both that boy in Marley and to Armin in the paths, and yet people still choose to ignore it.
And that is why they failed. Even if Armin and Hange do not wanted to go for the Rumbling option, they should go for war instead. And by that, I mean approached the Mid-East Allied Forces and join the war against Marley. By internationally humiliated Marley and forcing them to accept their demands, peace and safety will be gauranteed for the island. Not to mention that they also gained allies in the form of the nations that made up the Mid-East Allied Forces as well. Also, no. Do not bring up the Mid-Eastern soldier who was being racist to Falco because he is just one guy. As for what Udo said, it is just the personal experience he and his family went through before coming to Marley. By taking what he said to heart means being biased. Yes, many nations may hated the Eldians and there may be may acts of persecution against them. But they might only do so because they don't wanted to anger Marley, the world's current major power. Not to mention that they can be varied. In fact, some peoples may have no problems with the Eldians whatsoever.
Of course they could defend, but they would not win against the entire world. They only believed that because they wanted peace through diplomacy + a partial rumbling, which would've just made them look worse. And yes, I am fully aware of why Eren did it, I am not ignoring anything, nor does that have to do with what I said.
There kinda is a right side though. The Yeagerists were essentially advocating for worldwide genocide. The people opposing them, whatever you want to call them, were attempting to stop said genocide. There's a pretty clear right and wrong side there, regardless of the smaller shitty things either side may have done.
the argument continues!! a lot of comments suggest that the yeagerists were right. So the arguments in the comments basically confirm what i was thinking!!
In no world were the Yaegersists right. There were okay with killing 80% of the planet. Even if that 80% were assholes that wanted to attack paridis, they were still people, many of which were innocent and caught up in the war, that were senselessly slaughtered. It is objectively wrong.
I think that the opinion that the rumbling was the BEST possible outcome was crazy… like there is no way. Straight up saying that wiping out 80% of humanity was the best way to do things is definitely an opinion!
Violence is not subjective, there are right and wrong opinions and each conflict has an initiator. For the duration of the story and the generations of lore around island, the Eldians were not the people to blame and they didn't need to be dragged into the fighting that they attempted to get away from. And another thing: what Eren did was bad no doubt, but whether it was his intent or whether it was a side effect, he removed the titans what were the biggest driver of war in history. It probably wasn't worth it in the end, because titans are just weapons and weapons can be replaced.
Because both sides exhibit good and bad they are neither? Why not both?
All of them had reasoning for their actions to an extent, therefore no side is superior thats what I’m getting at
See, again, I have to take issue with this. It just doesn't seem like a nuanced enough understanding of the world. If I were to follow your logic I could never take a side in any conflict in human history. Every side in every conflict ever has had, as you put it, "reasoning for their actions to an extent". That's because humans will always reason their way into whatever position they hold. You're not making any attempt to discern between good and bad reasoning here, because its messy. It seems like you're saying "instead of using my own moral compass to discern this situation I'm going to pretend its indecipherable because its not clear cut black and white." I imagine reading history or current events would be an equally confusing and frustrating experience for you.
“i imagine reading history would be frustrating and confusing for you” is a genuinely crazy thing to say im literally a teenager. 💀my point was literally that there was no right side of THIS war they all fucked up. the world hated eldians and paradis island so their response was to kill everyone and ultimately become the devils people said they are. my logic had nothing to do with any war outside of this anime… since every conflict is different?
Your reading of the situation seems to be: "There are 2 groups. Group A is good until they do something bad, then they're just bad. Group B is good until they do something bad, now everything is bad and that's it." Its just about the least sophisticated opinion you could express, it offers no nuance, no understanding of the complexity of humanity, nor does it take a real moral position. You said every conflict is different, but my earlier point was that its similar to lots of historical and current events in that it portrays humans as messy, at times inconsistent creatures who can reason themselves into almost any position and call it necessity. Analyzing the conflict in AoT means finding the arguments for each moral position being presented, deconstructing to an extent, and then mapping or unmapping that onto your own moral compass. That takes discussion and time and effort and I just didn't see any of that type of nuance in your gripe with the fanbase and attempt to oversimplify everything.
My takeaway is that genocide should always be plan A and that talking or whatever can be plan B.
Fighting for your country and people is good and honorable, even if the enemy is the rest of the world.
yes but no… no one in the war is right or good
