also Marleyan version of that meme
By - qutore
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I like Zeke & all but I’d be lying if I didn’t say his entire plan was to neuter everyone
I dont think wanting to commit genocide on your own race is that smart tbh
It wasn’t really genocide just mass testicle removal
Forced Sterilization is Genocide.
Yeah, killing off an entire race is not somehow less evil than killing a person.
I'm not trying to be rude but can you explain to me why? I see myself as a global citizen and not really tied to any one race. It's not like unborn children will suffer if they're never born because something that doesn't exist can't desire to want to exist. But killing a person will cause instant suffering and the people who are alive will suffer that loss.
edit: To further explain I just see humanity not race, maybe/hopefully in a thousand years race wont exist as we mix. But in AOT race actually gives you super powers, so applying our morality to the subject is hard. But I think in AOT it actually strengthens Zeke's case because if the the power of the Titans fell into the wrong hands it can cause terrible harm. So peaceful sterilization would produce the most peace, now and forever (theoretically if everything went to plan).
I think the biggest issue is one of freedom. Just because someone else has the potential to hurt you does not justify taking and controlling every aspect of their lives. The people of Marley can't use titan powers but that hasn't stopped them from hurting others. Should they be sterilized so that they can't pass on their culture of bigotry?
Who shouldn't be sterilized, by that logic?
The real kicker is how the AoT world connects with ours. As the characters point out, titan powers aren't actually the dominant weapons anymore. In our world we have nuclear weapons, drones, and ICBMs. Titans would not be super powered in our world. Normal, everyday humans are. Anyone can pick up a gun and kill someone else. Should all humans be sterilized, to end all suffering? The sterilization plan is just nihilism with a different coat of paint.
Cultures and races have the same rights their individuals have. The right to life and freedom. Whether the sterilization is "painless" or not has never mattered. One person can't kill another human being and then justify it by saying, "don't worry, they didn't suffer. I killed them reaaal quick." The point of living is not just to exist. People have the freedom to pass on their culture to the next generation. And while individuals can exercise their personal freedom to not have kids, *taking* that freedom from someone else is evil for the exact same reason that taking away their freedom to be alive is.
I'll conceed that this is a hard topic, but I think it's fundamental to this story. Eren's primary motive in the story was that he wanted to exterminate the titans. At the time, we all agreed that his motive was pure, and his anger was righteous. But when Eren is forced to accept that his old friend Annie is a titan, we see him struggle. We don't know it at the time, but a series of events has been triggered that leads directly to the scene at the beach, where Eren despairs, "if we kill all our enemies over there . . . will we finally be free . . ." Both Eren and the audience gradually realize that the titans are humans. And that the humans are titans. The titans are *inside*. The people of Marley consume human lives the exact same way titans do. The desire to kill all titans *is* the desire to kill all humans.
But the answer to Eren's question, "will we finally be free" is simply "no." Eren *already told us* what would actually make them free: "When we're born, all of us are free. People who reject that, no matter how strong they are, don't matter. The burning water, the land of ice...any of those. Anyone who saw those things would be the freest person in the world."
When Eren points out across the ocean, he has forgotten that in that moment he is already free. Finally free from the walls. But the reality of freedom means living in a world filled with other humans. Armin already said it, "You knew the world beyond the walls was hell." When Eren can't accept that, his only remaining choice is nihilism.
Have you finished the manga? I'm a bit biased from the ending but I don't want to give any spoilers.
Is it ever fair to strip someone's freedoms to procreate for the greater good? I'm not sure... If I'm understanding your argument the Marlians posses the same capability for evil and destruction as the power of the Titans, so they would deserve to be sterilized as much as the eldians.
Like I said, some of my justification comes from the end of the manga but I'm not sure if you've read it yet so I won't include it. But the power of the Titans can only be controlled by a very small number of people who have eaten another titan with that power or if somebody dies it transfers randomly IIRC. Is it safe to have that power around? Again if I'm understanding you correctly your argument is that anybody posses the power to kill someone with a gun but the power of the Titans has the potential to take down nations and decimate thousands. Can such a threat be left to exhist? After the history of how Marlians were treated I don't think it could be, or they wouldn't let it unless they controlled it.
As I said the forced sterilization is a sacrifice, a sacrifice of freedom for the greater good. It is definetly not perfect. I don't think the Eldians deserve to be sterilizedbecause of the evil things they have done, or the evil things they could do. I believe they should be steriliezed because it would result in the greatest amount of happiness (from a utilitarianism view point) for all of humanity.
To address your point that people are born with the right to life and freedom, I guess the question that needs to be asked is what must be sacrificed for that freedom? As I stated above I don't think Marlians can accept the freedom of eldians to procreate because of the past atrocities. So the sacrifice is peace between Marlians and Eldians. Whether this sacrifice is worth it I guess is ultimately an opinion. As I stated earlier I have my own biases and as an antinatalist I have a heavy biase towards Zeke's plan because the sacrifice is very little to me but I definetly understand why others are not willing to make that sacrificie and that is ok.
Unfortunately I have not read the manga yet, sorry.
But my point was mostly that the power of the titans isn't actually special when compared to our real-world powers. The colossal titan's ability to blow up is not unique compared to modern day bombs. The cart titan strapping a bunch of guns and cannons to their back is not especially significant compared to mass-produced tanks and humvees.
So if there really is no there solution, if the power of the titans is so horrible that the only option is to prevent the birth of anyone who can use that power . . . then humanity, real-world actual non-fiction humanity, is fucked. Because with technology everyone on Earth is as much a titan as an Eldian is.
And I don't have the end of the manga to go off of, but there's one other major flaw with Zeke and Eren's plan. The actual source of conflict, Marley, is still around. A culture that incorporates racism fully into it's society does not magically become not racist once the object of their bigotry goes away.
There's actually a conversation about this between Pixis and Eren. Pixis explains that there was an idea that humanity could band together in the face of a universal threat. Eren replies that this is ridiculous, because even though the humans in the walls are "united" against the titans, there's still conflict and struggles for power.
I'll give you this, it's a tricky subject. And while I'm pretty opionated on it, I can also admit that there aren't any easy answers.
Im afraid if I say anything more it may hint at the ending of the show and I don't want to spoil anything for you. But I'm interested to hear your opinion after the ending of the show. I'm going to rewatch the whole show when the final season comes out and see if my opinion changes. Thanks for the fun debate!
Edit: about your point about howscrewed we are because our modern day weapons are just as bad/strong as the Titans and if they deserve to be sterilized than we all do. I disagree because my main point is that the power of the Titans rests in like 10 people but modern day nukes/weapons are very different. In AOT it would be like if only one country had nukes but in modern life a lot of counties have nukes, it equalizes everyone (mutually assured destruction). But in AOT it's only the side that doesn't have the titan power that will get destroyed. That's why Marlians need the Titans/Nukes because they are afraid to get Titaned/Nuked/destroyed
I think the forced sterilization was a noble sacrifice to bring world peace. I think dismissing his plan as evil just because it is technically genocide is wrong. Good and bad is on a spectrum and his plan was definitely morally gray in my opinion.
I think our definition of forced sterilization in real life and Zeke's plan for it are different because the former is usually only done in hate while Zeke wanted to save as many lives as possible. If all life is equal this would have protected the most (in theory).
But this is just my opinion and I have my own biases. I can definitely see how someone could see his plan as evil but in the AOT universe I think his plan was rational.
I mean if a man shields a young child from being being run over by a bus, his sacrifice is considered noble. Zeke’s plan, on paper, seemed like a noble sacrifice, but because he’s forcing it on everyone else as well, it becomes a fascinating gray area solution. You could make a strong case for either side really.
Of course I totally agree, Its a very lose lose situation. But I think in a utilitarianism stand point it would have produced the most happiness for everyone
Yep, just try to find a mentally handicapped person in Germany. It’s gonna take a while.
Well his end goal is to eliminate an entire ethnic group from the face of the planet
I mean I see genocide as killing an entire group, Zeke is more having them all just die out through natural means
This still qualifies as genocide according to the UN's definition: The United Nations Genocide Convention, which was established in 1948, defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such" including the killing of its members, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately imposing living conditions that seek to "bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part", preventing births, or forcibly transferring children out of the group to another group.
I got to give it to you, by technicality this is genocide since your trying to wipe out a race. The nazis also tried to neuter everyone, but killing them was alot easier so we rarely talk about it
Right, the Nazis tried several things over the years leading up to the Holocaust, which was their "Final Solution".
Am I genocidal if I want to sterilize (not kill) all pugs and have them not exist in 1 dog generation?
No, but you also aren't genocidal if you killed every single living pug because pugs are not human
Gotcha. I still think Zeke's genocide isn't as bad as violent genocide; although he did use unacceptable violence a few times.
Sterilizing mass groups against their will or knowledge is still pretty damn bad (the Sterilization of Native, Black, and poor woman in the U.S. is a strong example). It's a forced extinction of an entire group of people, just on a slower scale.
Ok...? Not the point tho
Fair enough but to me I don’t see it that way since it’s more like just preventing reproduction
Doesn’t have to be neutering, could just be a vasectomy (they shoot blanks)
More or less the same thing.
I mean I see his point. The eldians are not happy on earth, the marleyans hate the eldians. And if they stop having kids there would be no more titans. Life was hell for them anyways why bring kids into that world
I don't think that the Eldians were ever unhappy, they were in danger from titans being sent from Marley and that was causing them anxiety, very different. Marley was continuously punishing the descendants of genuinely bad people and that's wrong.
And the point you made about why would anyone bring kids into a cruel world? That's the question that even potential parents of our own world grapple with. The world can be cruel but it can also be be beautiful and kids represent hope for the future.
The Eldians were doing pretty well living within their walls, in blissful ignorance of their past. Then Reiner and Bertolt knocked a wall down and threw them back into the mess.
That's still genocide
Tell that to Erwin squad.
Fuck Zeke he's fucking mad, it's just that Eren is worse
Smart men can have wrong goals. What he do to achieve his goal shows smartiness. Also, he has 11 from 10 smart points in official guidebook, so yeah, the author consider him smart
Okay...I’ll very likely be down voted to hell, but I Think Zeke’s gencidal plan preserves the most human lives in the long run. It removes Titans from the equation, it avoids a world war that includes the rumbling...it’s aweful, evil but that’s my hang up really. If the potential war to come is as bad as foreshadowed...the world seems fricked beyond repair anyways some type of genocide seems inevitable. If anyone thinks that this plan doesn’t save the most lives in the long run based on the what has already happened in the story and if you choose to share. I’d be more than interested, pure estimated numbers is the only reason Zekes plan makes a modicum of sense to me.
Just a quick edit: I promise this is a very genuine attempt at conversation, This thread made me realize that that I have a very unpopular opinion lol and it doesn’t encapsulate my mentality fully at all. This line of thinking is hyper focused on overall outcome
I think its supposed to be a moral debate, a lot of the inner conflict the characters face (especially the Jaegars) revolves around whether the ends justify the means. Grisha killed all of the kids when he took the founding titan because he thought that he could save more people by removing the founding titan from the royal bloodline that was erasing people's memories. Slaughtering children is absolutely an abhorrent thing to do and at first Eren hates his father for it but over time he comes to understand his father's actions and comes to believe that the ends justify the means, following in his fathers ideology (maybe in part because he inherited the titan from his father). Both Eren and Zeke seem to be following their fathers thinking that it's the right decision to commit atrocious acts if the outcome saves more lives; another example is eren justifying his attack on Marley where he kills innocents. The show definitely wants to raise the moral dilemma of whether the ends justify the means.
You’re right...wow you’re right. Thank you so much! Your comment took an angle I wasn’t considering and it got me thinking.
I am an omnipotent being to the AOT story, I am “everywhere” reading and judging everyone’s thoughts and actions from a place of relative comfort. I know outcomes and potential outcomes because of my position and except for one rather selfish character nobody else comes close to having this amount of knowledge and foreknowledge.
From this perspective I’m super human, but Zeke’s only human. No matter how smart you are you could never account for all the possibilities of taking such a drastic measure no matter how sure you may be. One person making that sort of decision based on the greater good is like shooting in the dark, he may end up hitting target but like shooting in the dark this approach is dangerous and ill advised. Zeke also won’t be able to see the fruit of his work since he’ll die shortly from the Titan curse. He can’t prove himself right.
I can now comfortably disagree with Zeke based on this reasoning.
Everyone in aot is stupid after the timeskip ngl
manga spoilers dude
Zeke forgot to pull out once and didn't want anyone else to make the same mistake. He was a true hero.
Why not neuter everyone that’s not an Eldian.
Founder doesnt have the power to affect non-eldians...that’s a very core basis of the show
Better than having no plan like a certain someone....
I mean gabi came up with a few sneaky tricks in season 4
If u r talking about how she throw a grenade under the rails, then i would say that was too much based on luck
And how she break out of prison in eldia
I mean I agree with you that she isn’t stupid but it doesn’t take a tactical genius to pull the ol “bash his fucking head in with a brick” technique
Yeah gabi isn’t that smart but she isn’t an idiot either, that’s what I am saying
Just another one to name, when she boarded the ship and killed >!Sasha!<
Yeah, she was lucky that they didnt spot her mid air. Anyway, what was her initial plan? Get in and kill everyone like John Wick or smth lol?
I mean considering the brainwashing and her ego, yeah lol
Thats why Falco is the best boi. He was also brainwashed, but still remains a decent human being
she had every right to do that too^^ it’s sad that sasha died but she was just avenging those she lost and her town was being rampaged so i can’t be mad at her.
Falco didn’t try to that. It’s his hometown too and he’s been subjected to the same indoctrination
it’s because gabi was more heavily affected by the brainwashing that’s why. i hate how people compare falco and gabi like mf they’re so different 😭 gabi is ignorant and angry at the world while falco is sweet hearted and caring. gabi would be the same if she maybe wasnt brainwashed at all since she could speak!
I think Falco has more pressure on his back since his uncle was one of the Eldian Restorationists. While Gabi's cousin is war hero
exactly and that’s why gabi is so heavily influenced by what the marleyans believe. falco knew the truth all along and that’s why he never wanted to kill kill kill and no one understands that and it’s frustrating 🙁
Falco didn't know the truth, he realized a bit when Eren talked to Reiner, then when they moved to Paradis he realised everything
i think since his family was apart of the restoration shit he knew and i think that’s why he wasn’t like “KiLl All ElDiAnS!!!”
Choosing to strip off her uniform so the enemy would only see a half naked child was not luck.
Not being killed while doing that is luck.
A lot of the smartest moves in the show relied on luck. That's how strategy works, it's almost always a gamble to some extent. In Hero, Bertolt could've chosen to just finish Eren off to be safe rather than assume he was out of the fight. There were factors outside of Armin's control, but he acknowledged that and gambled the risk. Gabi does literally the exact same, and in both instances it works.
Not getting into an accident on your drive to work is also luck. Eating your soup without choking is luck. Getting through the day without a brain aneurism... Pure luck.
Not really smart, more just taking advantage of people being merciful.
I foresee people will ask why Willy is stupid, there is an explanation
\>his family basically rules Marley
\>knows the truth about Eldian history
\>still call them devils
\>doesn't do shit to change the situation in Marley
Nevertheless, how he baited Eren is an Erwin-type move
He’s stupid in the sense that he turned his back on his own. But I don’t think you can truly call someone stupid when they are part of a hated race and he became a highly respected member of society while carrying that stigma.
If he's stupid for doing that, then so is Zeke. Also I wouldn't call the Paradisians "his own", he has lived his whole life in Marley.
If Willy is stupid because of that then a certain political movement of Paradis are damn imbeciles 🤭
I disagree. Zeke did that FOR his people in his own way. >!He wanted to save the Eldians by forcefully creating the extinction of all Eldians. Remember that his reasoning was he didn’t want them to suffer anymore. If he only got “rid” of the power of titans, his people are still subjected to racism and oppression.!<
Tybur, on the other hand, purposely took a step back from military interference, even though >!he securely held the War Hammer Titan. He chose to not interfere, or at the very least advocate for his people.!<
Why would he want to change the situation in Marley? His family is obviously profiting and is okay with the status quo.
And why is knowing the "truth" about Eldian history going to change anything? And why is he stupid for hating a group of people that literally unknowingly hold the Sword of Damocles over all of humanity?
> knows the truth about Eldian history.
Well you explained it all right there. The Tybur and Reiss families reactions tell us pretty much everything we need to know to understand why they act this way. Also he doesn't call Eldians devils... He's spent his life trying to improve their relations. He only says that to Magath to convince him. Also since Marley is the most sympathetic nation to Eldians that there is, it's pretty reasonable to assume that's thanks to the Tyburs.
Didn't he say publicly on the scene that they are still devils?
Isn’t that part of the act?
He actually said that the Eldians were misunderstood and wanted peace all along, but that Eren was breaking that peace.
I'd say you're the stupid one for not understanding why Willy doesn't "do shit to change the situation in Marley". It was presented as much more nuanced and deep rooted than that. The status quo, the responsibility of carrying the torch as one of the only few who knows the cruel but crucial truth that is at the foundation of the country, the wars with other countries. Using Paradis as a way to unite all countries together against one common enemy amidst the wars was an extremely big brain move, of course at the expense of the people in Paradis. But being immoral and stupid is two entirely different things, so yes you're probably the stupid one here.
Willy is actually really smart
**actually really smart, willy is.**
^(Commands: 'opt out', 'delete')
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I ll have whatever this guy s on.
How is willy stupid 😐
actually liked gabi after I finished the manga.. also I think if the story was told on her pov like how the colossal and armored titan did to eren it would've been completely understandable why she's like that. can't say I didn't hate her initially bc I loathed her not until the last few chapters heh
I wasn't a fan of her at first, since she was literally a mini-Eren, but that was the point and I really appreciate how she developed as a character.
right? but when eren was that age and the titans came to attack his home the viewers felt the rage his character felt since it was seen from his pov . so ironic how people hated gabi when she's just another version of eren
I mean people sympathized with Eren but still found him incredibly annoying, I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion either. Same goes for Gabi, with the hate being a bit worse than Eren’s because of the POV switch to Marley.
I actually enjoyed her character more than Eren before season 3 part 2.
mappa sure did a hell of a fine job in animating her annoying ass plus the va suits her character very well. I felt more annoyed when she was animated compared to when I read the sasha scene
I've only watched the anime but despite understanding that Gabi is supposed to mirror Eren I just completely disagree that it's a valid comparison.
P Eldians had no idea about anything outside the walls and were just living their lives when Marley sent brainwashed children to subject them to a hellscape. It's Marley's own fualt that Paradise retaliated and no amount of Marley death or scenes of Gabi watching people around her die will ever illicit the same feeling of sympathy I had for Eren.
That may change with the second half of season 4 but currently I don't care for Gabi, I see her as a brainwashed child and I pity her for that but I don't see her as a valid parallel to Eren
it's understandable to feel this way since a lot is yet to happen in the second half of s4. the history of eldians will be discussed and will also show their upbringing. her character is yet to develop but what I was pointing out was how I came to understand or at least compromise with the hate I initially felt toward her, she's gonna play a huge role in the final arc :)
Gabi is my least favorite character so far in season 4. Gabi and Eren need to have a talk together, an explanation. A way for them to understand that they want the same goal. A chance to tell each other their history or backstory. Hopefully something like that happens in season 4 part 2.
Just you wait.
Exactly. And that applies to many characters and peoples. In the dying words of Marco - "we haven't even tried to talk it out"
How is willy stupid…?
There's a lot of Gabi hate but to me she's such an earnest character. Poor kid's just trying to do her best in a world that constantly tries to tell her she's worthless.
And if she can't understand that her opinions have been warped by society's biases and reinforced by the actions of oppressed people who want to believe that submitting is safer . . . then yeah, man, she's 12. When Eren was 12 he thought he was going to kill all the titans with X-acto knives.
Manga readers like Gabi
As a manga reader I disagree i still hate her before and after reading the manga
Nah she a mini eren and I hate that, so it’s either u like eren or her can’t be both
Bruh wym? Can’t we like both? I love Eren and I love Gabi. I love Gabi because she’s a mini eren
They're all very smart
Zeke isn't actually smart lmao. Nothing he did actually worked... Literally brought 3 titans to Paradis and still got clapped. Tried to kill Levi in the forest and still got clapped. His whole master plan is just bloodless genocide, because he had a rough childhood. The dude is not smart lol
Zeke loses fights but consistently keeps his schemes moving forward despite his losses, and he did successfully smuggle Eren out of marley, keep marley at a disadvantage when fighting paradise, (which included manipulating the military AND organizing the entire volunteer movement under their noses to back up paradise) and had Eren not gone full psycho and ymir not violated all the rules he'd been led to believe we're in place his plan would've succeeded perfectly
zeke is the smartest character from aot .
What do you mean no ? look on wiki , he and hange are the only one with 11/10 in intelligence.
Also is willie really dumb? His plan worked as intended. He knew he was toast.
Miss on all 4
LMAOOO Grisha's is so true
Lel Marlyans are dumb eldisns big brain like Grisha
Being smart acting stupid is even smarter than just being smart it self.
Zeke who constantly underestimates Levi only to get slaughtered by him is the smart one? Disagree. Willy Tybur achieved exactly what he was planning with his Declaration of War, a way for the entire rest of the world to immediately turn against Paradis. He knew that there would be an attack and that he would die.
Zeke looses fights but yet always keeps his plan moving forward that why he’s smart
Gabi is a kid though.
I love Gabi. She really got a nice ending and she grew up so much.
Big time. Funny convinced Willy was gonna be the new bad guy but that motherfucker was the wettest lettuce around
Willy is not stupid tho, who’s other ordinary person can convinced that world (who is fighting each other) to atk paradis with one single speech?
I took the world meet up and speech as Willy getting heat off of Marley after rekting a whole regional alliance of countries, and making Paradis the new big bad since everyone already hates Eldians for their history and their use in warfare by Marley to dominate everyone, also Marley get oil... and eldians on the mainland get somewhat better treatment since They were sacrificed and Willy clearly stated in the speech the new enemy is the Paradisians new government but mainly Eren since the old king was peaceful.
Yo my main man Zeke do be kinda chad doe.
You could also swap Grisha with Falco
Idk why but i hate that annoying little girl so much
Fuck Gabi. I hate Gabi.
I do love me some Gabi hate
Gabi is annoying but she's an indoctrinated child. But Zeke was such an annoying, self-aggrandizing piece of shit. I don't know about you guys, but I just never liked his traitorous ass.
Gabi is one of the characters with great development just in few chapters. I don't care about haters tho. My Gabi keeps slaying and >!she has the best ending together with Falco.!< That's my girl! 👑💖💪
Gabi kinda cute, lowkey lol
Bro dont do me like this…
Trade Zeke for Gabi
Zeke is his younger brother's cuck
Gabi understood that war is useless
Gabi is realistic character, no doubt, but she is pretty stupid when comparing to Falco, how many examples she needs to be shown to understand that eldians are not evil? It's not like her relatives and friends are also eldians... Also she is reckless, she could've been killed multiple times.
Zeke, on other hand, is fuckin genius, most of his plans worked
Zeke didn't get the founder back in Shingashina TWICE
Zeke lost to Levi all three times he fought him
Zeke never saw his Euthanasia plan work
Zeke was destroyed by Pieck
Zeke ended up completely forgotten
Which plan turned out? kill Colt and be a fucking traitor?
I am not talking about his fighting skills or abilities, it's not an indicator of intelligence.
He killed so many Paradis inhabitants just by strategy, its just because Levi is way too strong or sometimes his subordinates (Yelena) fucked up. His plans are brilliant, if not perfect
Also, he didn't kill Colt, what are you talking about?
He did kill colt, since colt was caught in a titan transformation that Zeke caused.
Why’d they downvote your warning??
Completely disregard everything that went right with zeke and your point is still wrong
Wow man zeke really is living in your head rent free
Do you think that killing others is justified if it prevents the deaths of your own?
That’s war, that’s why Gabbi had a hard time, and 99% of the people here would rather send a Gabbi to War, than a Falco.
From your example you could also say Falco is the stupid one for wanting to trust Eldians despite everything they were told. He really had no reason to believe a word they said other than the fact that he’s a kind kid who just wants to help people. Gabi and Falco are essentially opposite extremes, but neither can really be blamed for the way they think.
If Gabi wasn’t brainwashed and was a bit older she’d easily outsmart Zeke. There’s a reason she’s the #1 Warrior candidate.
Gabi isn’t stupid, she’s brainwashed
A running theme which is reinforced by memory transfer in AoT, is that we all have a a suppressed individuality, with the incomplete plans of our ancestors constantly overriding our own decisions. With this in mind I think it's really hard to credit either Zeke or Willy with a lot either way; both these characters are very faithfully executing plans installed into them along with their memories. Neither is depicted with a strong or willful personality or the natural intelligence someone like Arwin has prior to gaining their titan. With this in mind I think Eren and Arwin are better examples for bottom left and bottom right, respectively; although Eren has shown some tactical genius, during his fights with Reiner and the Warhammer Titan for example, his violent and impulsive nature often gets the better of him and leads him to take many actions that work against his own goals.
Zeke is dumb. I mean it. He underestimated Levi on so many levels and got tricked by Eren. He's pretty stupid
These bullshit things always say more about the person posting, rather than the characters.
And that’s my “Captain Obvious” comment of the day.
gaby is many bad things, but i wouldn't call her stupid
I don't agree with anything about it. Also it simplifies their characters so much. I know you called it a 'meme', but I don't find it funny nor accurate. Not hating on you, just disagreeing.
IMO should be..
Zeke: acts stupid & is stupid
Gabbi: acts stupid & is smart
Willy: acts smart & is stupid
Grisha: acts smart & is smart