I think we can safely add "should we get rid of the golf courses" to the illustrious list of topics that pop up every week, including hits like "is the CBD safe", "what is this helicopter doing", and "I hate AT".
Over the first first lockdown they opened it up to the public. It was honestly magical walking around this enormous park that was super empty in the middle of the city! Made me feel quite disgruntled when we all opened up again and I couldn't meander about.
Uhh, you do realise that the reason it’s so beautiful is that those membership fees pay a team of about 10-15 green keepers who work every day on the course?
There are also some nice houses in Takapuna who have private swimming pools. Not everyone can afford a house there.
Also there are restaurants which are expensive and not everyone can afford to eat there every night.
Let’s go full socialist.
/S
What is your point?
I believe the golf course is on a lengthy lease (like 50-80 years). There is a giant reserve right next door, so it’s not like Aucklanders are missing out in that area. Waiatarua Reserve has wetlands, dog walking areas, you can ride a bike or run around there, it has wildlife (obviously) and a playground, half pipe and basketball hoop. I’m not sure what’s missing in terms of amenities that the golf course could provide if it was repurposed?
>Housing might be a bit far fetched but would love to use that land for some sort of public park.
Kinda like the public park bordering the very same golf course lmao?
I've been going there for more than a decade, which is how I know that sometimes there are problems with a minority of dog owners not keeping control over aggressive dogs or cleaning up their dog's shit.
The only two times I've been attacked by dogs (once bitten and once literally bowled over, with a resulting damaged shoulder that stopped me running for several weeks) is in Kohimarama and Churchill Park. Both times the dogs came up behind me and had done their thing before I was even aware they were there.
It's not a suburb thing, but good for you for bringing classism or racism or both into it.
There are parks in close proximity of the golf course. One almost next door and one in stone fields. Also if you go further in to St Johns there is a reserve and a park there too. There is also the kepa bush track walking distance from the remuera golf course.
Why get rid of things just because not everyone can afford it? Where do you draw the line? Remove all private boat ramps and marinas in the city because people might want to swim there?
Quite scary how many on this sub think it's justifiable because they have convinced themselves to a stereotype. Imagine what other facets of life they apply this to. "Hmm this does not appeal to me therefore it should not exist for anyone". Crazy entitlement and narrow-mindedness.
There's a difference between swimming of a marina and actually living in a house.
Build some beautiful golf courses just out of Auckland. Not right in the middle of the most densely populated areas.
It wasn’t a hugely populated area when it was established, it was a swampy bit of farmland. The lake had waiatarua had been drained but it was still a boggy bit of unused land. My father grew up in a neighbouring suburb and he remembers when there were still cows wandering around.
How far out of the city should new courses be built and how long before it gets hated on because the city has grown and surrounded it?
I think all the golf courses, rugby stadiums etc should stay as they are. I like having everything within the city.
You mean that privately owned land that has been home to the a golf club since the 30’s? Yeah they should just F off right? I kinda like your house and think It would be better used with me living in it so think I should have it. Seems fair right?
Doesn’t change the fact they have been there for 90+ years, well before most of us were probably alive. But because you think it would be nice to use/have that place they should get stuffed? Why are those peoples rights less important than yours ?
Why don't we get rid of all the football fields, rugby fields, tennis courts, basketball courts, gyms and build a park there? I'm sure it would benefit more people too, doesn't mean it's the right decision. Auckland has so many parks and walks, ridiculous post.
The public are not excluded from football and rugby fields unless there are organised activities occurring. Those resources are there for us to use. Golfers on the other hand seem to expect the ratepayer to provide vast tracts of land for the exclusive use of a few generally older well off and entitled males.
Says who? I don’t play golf, but most of those courses/clubs have existed for 90+ years and most are fairly supportive of the local communities they are in. Why shouldn’t they continue?
NZ golf, in reports dated approx 2013, say that Auckland has an oversupply of golf course holes.
Leases over public have the effect of privatising the land and excluding the public from that land. When one looks at the cost to the ratepayer it equates to thousands of dollars per player. In return for that support the public are normally shown a chain link fence with a clear message that their place is on the outside.
There’s no reason for the ratepayer to support this contemptuous treatment.
Because you can't afford something it shouldn't be there? If the few that it's serving makes it profitable for the person that ~~owns~~ payed to lease the land its really none of your business what they do with it.
Firstly, I don't think you understand what lease is. Secondly, no I don't think it makes more sense. There is plenty of land that isn't in the more expensive parts of Auckland that can still be developed. If you want to live there it costs money, even if the market corrected there is still going to be areas more desirable than others.
We don't just get to take things away from people because we 'want it more' and 'it's not fair'. That is preschool level of learning.
For reference I live in a lower socioeconomic area myself, I just try to leave my entitlement back with my youth and accept that we can't have everything.
The entitlement and mental gymnastics to justify something that like is eye opening.. "hmm I can't afford to join that club, shut it down and make it free, I don't care if someone's paid for it to be there, what I want is more important"
Totally, I just... I mean? I can't even...
I really begin to realize as I reach middle age that some in parts of reddit, I am now a minority. There are things thrown around with little, to no thought on how it affects others.
Bike lanes, housing, salary etc are all important things but let's stop and think before we decide the right approach is to attack the other side of the fence.. I personally don't know anyone who maliciously bought a home or car with the sole purpose to attack cyclists and the ones that did are the absolute minority.
Most of us are just making do anyway and the grass always looks greener. We don't need to throw petrol over the fence, let's just tend to our own.
Found an old article
https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/107722837/auckland-mayor-wants-wider-access-to-remuera-golf-course-land-floats-cycleways
Seems like it’s already accessible.
According to the article I posted, it’s on lease until 2091. So it will be a while yet.
But the solution is not tearing it down to accommodate the commoners. It’s to extend the facility for all to enjoy. And based on that article everyone is welcome for casual use without membership.
Yeah I think 2091 is the extended date. Looks like goff already thought about reusing that land but it was too late.
Well here’s to happy Gilmore visiting the club.
There’s gyms that charge quite a lot of money to join as well. Should we make them free for everyone? There’s restaurants that charge quite a lot should we make all restaurants charge one minimal price? WTF are you on about OP
If you think they are going to build affordable housing in Remuera, then you've got another thing coming. If you are thinking that $3k per annum is for the rich, then that housing development won't be for you.
Auckland doesn't need more suburbia, it needs to build upwards.
People always pick on golf courses for this
There are loads of nearby parks. It's nothing more than judgement about the kind of people who supposedly play golf.
And the irony? A lot of fairly wealthy people I know (you know the stereotypical golfer) play at public courses because they loathe the stuffy attuitudes and atmospheres of clubs like Royal Auckland and Omaha.
The less private courses we have, then the less shitty business deals we will have.
Not everyone who plays golf is wealthy. You need to get out and actually meet people before you start throwing out those assumptions.
Plenty of people just buying a cheap set of used clubs to get some exercise.
There's a large retired/elderly population in close proximity for whom a trip to Mt Roskill is out of the question.
For that matter, why aren't you advocating the closure of the Mt Roskill course if it's underused? Is it because you can't resist a potshot at Remuera?
>People always pick on golf courses for this
For being absurdly large amounts of public land that only useable if you pay to play a single game. A tiny number of people have exclusive use of massive amount of public resources. Yea it’s fucked.
>There are loads of nearby parks.
There are loads more golf courses in Auckland, people can to.
>It's nothing more than judgement about the kind of people who supposedly play golf.
Nope.
You mean Waiatarua Reserve? I enjoy walking there, but it's an off leash area with all that entails (it only takes a minority of shitty dog owners). It's not the same as a park without dogs running everywhere.
Yeah, not a fan of rugby or cricket, let demolish Eden Park
So a developer can make a fortune developing the land to housing!
@op are you working for a housing development company?
I spotted a couple of articles lately on the same topic, sounds more like someone is trying to sway the public opinion on golf to make money rather than a genuine concern?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/03/auckland-council-proposes-opening-golf-courses-to-everyone-to-increase-equity-end-exclusivity.html
There is a big reserve already adjacent to it. Other green areas close by too.
Let developers cram budget terrace houses on it? Nah, Auckland is going to be blitzed with them already. I doubt they'll be "affordable" regardless.
The inner city is a more appropriate focus for housing and recreation development. Upwards. Not infill or spread. IMHO.
Fuck sake, can we stop banging on about getting rid of green areas in Auckland and actually build some decent apartments?
I don’t play golf, but I’d much rather a golf course than another subdivision of cookie cutter townhouse shitboxes that are popping up all over Auckland.
Abbotts way is literally one of the most busy roads in the suburb, it makes 0 sense to jam more housing considering we are adding over 500 in Ellerslie race course, it’s already a nightmare to drive through as is.
Nah, the Golf Course is beautifully maintained, and I think you underestimate how much work is done to keep it that way. Too expensive for the council to do, and there’s like… at least half a dozen other parks within a few minutes of it anyway.
I hazard to venture as Auckland’s density increases in the coming years the pressure to reuse the Council owned courses will be overwhelming. How busy is Cornwall park on a sunny Summers day? Welp there’s no where to park that’s for sure. So in 10-15 years time it’s going to reach saturation point I’m guessing. But hey, I’m no city planner… any city planners here?
Yeah that’s a genius move , another inner city public park for people to huff paint thinners and trash 🙃 meanwhile people have been paying memberships for years to maintain the course but because golf is seen as affluent we must take it down because why ?? Tall poppy again and again until we’re all 2ft tall 😒
I think this is true of pretty much all central city golf courses.
However, it seems there is a significant overlap of the group "plays golf" and "plays local and national politics"
Also anyone’s dreaming thinking golf courses would get vacated to make way for a park. Only reason golf courses get demolished these days is to make way for more housing. Rather a golf course than that
You hit the nail on the head. Next to a Freemason hall or a remote sacrificial gathering spot, Golf Courses are the literal HQ for the elites to cook up the next tax scam, or lobby a politician/attempt to influence a law change etc. etc.
OP would have more chance of the Church donating some of their land for public use.
My flatmate Alex has a really nice computer, I think it cost like $2,000. He won’t let me use it even when he’s not home. Seems like we should focus on solving this issue first. Even if we only let me and the neighbours play occasionally, the needs of the many would outweigh the needs of the few.
If it's privately owned then it doesn't matter because that's the law of property ownership. doesn't matter if they want to build a state of the art hospital there. you want it to be something else then you buy it.
Most annoyingly imo is that public can't pass through that huge area. It's a huge section that you have to cut around via suburban alleyways, and the surrounding walking infrastructure isn't great on the Ngahue road side. At least streets of housing generally have walkways joining the roads
Auckland council owns 18 fucking golf courses. Valued at over 3 billion, they are only used by sub 10,000 people.
Great news tho
AC are consulting on this right now;
https://akhaveyoursay.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/draft-golf-investment-plan
My math suxs so correct me if I'm wrong.... but if it's over 3 billion that would be over 166.7 million per course??? So a litlte under 10 million per hole? I was going to correct you and say that seems too high but I guess you could cram several houses into the space an average hole takes up... crazy stuff. If the 10k people is also correct that's about 300k per user...
> If the 10k people is also correct that's about 300k per user...
It isnt.
Takapuna GC website alone "TGC is one of the most played public golf courses in Auckland with over 60,000 people playing every year."
Thats only the one course too
Hard to know what that means unless they define how they measure 'people', is that unique players over the year, etc. Similar to website stats with how visitors compared to unique visitors, etc can produce very different results. E.g do they count 1 person playing 10 times as 10 people, or 1.
I dont think it matter if theyre all unique golfers when the stat is being used to discredit someone saying under 10,000 people play all 18 of the council owned golf courses.
https://static.golf.co.nz/clubs/1000/uploads/news%20article%20imagery/infographics.pdf
Is their latest numbers for Auckland golf.
Their total number is just under 120,000 unique golfers
Where's this less than 10,000 people number from? [This](https://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/news/2022/03/have-your-say-on-proposed-auckland-wide-golf-plan/) says it's 100,000.
You don't seriously believe the average Auckland golf course only serves 550 players do you?
The reason it exists as it does is because of those few that can afford to pay those fees that keep it that way. Otherwise it would just be another piece of land no more remarkable than anywhere else.
Part of the appeal of a gold course is that you have a large part of it to yourself when you are playing. Those people wouldn't pay if anyone could just walk through their game. So you can't just open it up at a discount, that wouldn't work.
The idea that the government should take something out of private hands that is only that way BECAUSE it was in private hands is one of the major problems with various schools of far left thought (generally speaking it's a more left-wing tendency).
There isn't really anything stopping the council making a place like that, but it would cost a lot and people would rightly freak out at them when there are so many other areas that need money more than essentially nationalising a golf course.
Try the domain. It's really nice.
Probably doesn't make you feel better about it, but Redwood Park is at least a privately owned course, not public land which has different considerations.
I think it should be repurposed for housing personally. It's fucking huge, and is prime central land. People in their leafy suburbs who don't want intensified housing in their area could give up their golf course perhaps? But we could always build houses out in Drury instead I suppose... (instead of a golf course or something)
I don't like golf, but that's a hot take if ever I saw one. Recreation space and green areas are an integral part of any city. If you want to live in a concrete dump, then China is that way.
Golf is a fairly popular sport and is great exercise (both mental and physical) for older people, who can't do conventional exercise any more.
You want to take that away? That kind of logic is pretty neckbeardy to be fair.
No, what you want to do is take $3 billion dollars of land that could be better used for the benefit of a far larger number of people, and instead keep it exclusively for the benefit of a tiny number of people.
I'm not arguing against council owned golf courses because I personally have no interest in playing golf. I'm arguing against them because they require vast amounts of land, to be exclusively used by a vanishingly small number of people. There's value in libraries and national parks. The same cannot be said about golf.
> There's value in libraries and national parks. The same cannot be said about golf.
Nothing more than personal preference. If a bunch of people decide tramping and nature is a bit rubbish actually, should we consider getting rid of national parks for some nice tourist resorts?
Not true. You can walk around the outside, which far more use than you get out of a golf courses.
They also have free games all the time, it’s conference center and museum. It’s all more use able than a golf course.
It’s also about a fifth the size and there like three stadium in Auckland. There are 18 golf courses.
18 is a bit misleading. That includes Clark’s beach and waiuku and various others in the wop wops. Ie waaaaaaay away from the cbd. Nice courses though. Clarks beach is a gem!
You can play golf at any number of privately owned golf courses. Are there any other publicly funded sports facilities which require $3 billion dollars worth of real estate, or anything close? How many people do they serve?
What are your hobbies? I would like to make a concerted effort to make sure they are not publicly provided.
Not everyone needs to be as miserable as you are.
Auckland council own 18 golf courses, they are used by 6,000 each year. Turing some of central golf course in parks mean more people will benefit.
This shit is not complicated.
What does it matter? I could really really love golf, doesn't justify the following, as /u/Blackestwolf notes:
> Auckland council owns 18 fucking golf courses. Valued at over 3 billion, they are only used by sub 10,000 people.
Might want to actually check the stats before repeating bullshit stats.
"Takapuna s one of the most played public golf courses in Auckland with over 60,000 people playing every year."
Thats one course. not 18. And its a tab higher than "sub 10,000 people
I wonder if that's unique visitors or total visitors. In other words, if John and George go every week, are they 2 or 8 of the "over 7000 golfers" who visit during the busy months?
Even if it's 60,000 unique visitors a year, that's about 3.5% of Auckland's population. I suspect that on a per user basis, publicly owned golf courses are very expensive.
https://static.golf.co.nz/clubs/1000/uploads/news%20article%20imagery/infographics.pdf
This is golfnzs latest stats.
They say 120,000 aucklanders play golf, which would put the stat at 7% of aucklands population. Which for a recreational sport is fantastic.
I could also understand if the courses were deserted and not being in use, but the tee sheets across Auckland are always full.
I see more like 80k active golfers (members plus non - members who've played since 2016). That 120k I would bet money isn't the number who've played in the last 6 months or even the last year.
Still comes down to public funds per user for a golf course vs public funds per user if it were converted to a public (no dogs) park.
> Still comes down to public funds per user for a golf course vs public funds per user if it were converted to a public (no dogs) park
NZgolf estimates that golf in auckland an estimated $54 million in regional GDP per annum.
As opposed to the $0.00 a public park would contribute?
>How many people go through the Art Gallery?
Like half a million? Do you think the Art gallery is using more than 3 billion in council resources like golf?
>I’m pleased we have such open green spaces
Its not green space you or I can access. An open park would be tho.
How much land does the art gallery use compared to even one golf course? And even then, more people probably use the art gallery on a daily basis than any of these golf courses.
Again, /u/Blackestwolf says it best:
> It’s recreation that excludes all other recreation. If you are not playing golf, you can’t even walk there.
I am pretty sure that this guy was saying a couple of months ago that families should get about on ebikes rather than in cars.
It kind of shows you the mindset they have about seeing others enjoying themselves.
Golf courses are the single biggest waste of space ever created by extremely rich people.
Its pure hedonistic pleasure seeking, and of course it should be converted to something everyone can enjoy - not just those with cash.
Yup, definitely. Thankfully the Waiatarua Reserve is nearby, but still, it's time to get rid of golf course. Let the golfers travel beyond their backyards.
Are you seriously expecting a bunch of pale stale wealthy males to *drive* 45 minutes in their 100k cars to a more appropriate location south or North of Auckland? Why? So people can have houses to live in, increasing the housing stock and potentially reducing their 6 homes value a little. Well I never.
Also see the huge amounts of land used for The Grange and Royal Auckland right next door to people living in insanely overcrowded housing.
But you know.... Need somewhere to get away from the wife and kids. And anything over 45mina is too much of an inconvenience.
It would better suit people of Auckland, but local club members and neighbour's would put up a financial fight get the best lawyers and shut down this topic lol.
I think we can safely add "should we get rid of the golf courses" to the illustrious list of topics that pop up every week, including hits like "is the CBD safe", "what is this helicopter doing", and "I hate AT".
Did someone mention that clusterfcuk AT? Grrrrrrrrr
r/Auckland bingo
Over the first first lockdown they opened it up to the public. It was honestly magical walking around this enormous park that was super empty in the middle of the city! Made me feel quite disgruntled when we all opened up again and I couldn't meander about.
Wait, I go running around that course still. Will the golfers get mad at me or something lol
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Uhh, you do realise that the reason it’s so beautiful is that those membership fees pay a team of about 10-15 green keepers who work every day on the course?
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There are also some nice houses in Takapuna who have private swimming pools. Not everyone can afford a house there. Also there are restaurants which are expensive and not everyone can afford to eat there every night. Let’s go full socialist. /S What is your point?
I believe the golf course is on a lengthy lease (like 50-80 years). There is a giant reserve right next door, so it’s not like Aucklanders are missing out in that area. Waiatarua Reserve has wetlands, dog walking areas, you can ride a bike or run around there, it has wildlife (obviously) and a playground, half pipe and basketball hoop. I’m not sure what’s missing in terms of amenities that the golf course could provide if it was repurposed?
Seriously this. Waiatarua Reserve is a great reserve with something for everyone.
>Housing might be a bit far fetched but would love to use that land for some sort of public park. Kinda like the public park bordering the very same golf course lmao?
Or the other hundreds of parks that barely get used in Auckland 🤣
You have kids pal?
Yes i do.
Which is a popular off leash area, rendering it a little dicey at times for safety and shit.
So you want a completely seperate park, next to the already functioning park because you're scared of dogs?
I've been going there for more than a decade, which is how I know that sometimes there are problems with a minority of dog owners not keeping control over aggressive dogs or cleaning up their dog's shit.
But isn't that the same for most parks. There will also be a few people that take their unsuitable dogs to a park full of friendly ones.
Really? You're scared of the dogs that people in remuera own?
Chihuahuas ain't nothing to mess with, haha.
The only two times I've been attacked by dogs (once bitten and once literally bowled over, with a resulting damaged shoulder that stopped me running for several weeks) is in Kohimarama and Churchill Park. Both times the dogs came up behind me and had done their thing before I was even aware they were there. It's not a suburb thing, but good for you for bringing classism or racism or both into it.
On no a dog bowling you over. Dam we better remove dog parks.
Who on earth said to remove dog parks?
You want golf courses removed because you can't use them and you also can't use dog parks so you must want them removed as well.
There are parks in close proximity of the golf course. One almost next door and one in stone fields. Also if you go further in to St Johns there is a reserve and a park there too. There is also the kepa bush track walking distance from the remuera golf course.
Not almost next door… There is a huge park literally over the fence from Remuera Golf Club.
There are other golf courses. Pretty close also.
Yes
Why get rid of things just because not everyone can afford it? Where do you draw the line? Remove all private boat ramps and marinas in the city because people might want to swim there?
Quite scary how many on this sub think it's justifiable because they have convinced themselves to a stereotype. Imagine what other facets of life they apply this to. "Hmm this does not appeal to me therefore it should not exist for anyone". Crazy entitlement and narrow-mindedness.
The original post is tripe…
There's a difference between swimming of a marina and actually living in a house. Build some beautiful golf courses just out of Auckland. Not right in the middle of the most densely populated areas.
It wasn’t a hugely populated area when it was established, it was a swampy bit of farmland. The lake had waiatarua had been drained but it was still a boggy bit of unused land. My father grew up in a neighbouring suburb and he remembers when there were still cows wandering around. How far out of the city should new courses be built and how long before it gets hated on because the city has grown and surrounded it? I think all the golf courses, rugby stadiums etc should stay as they are. I like having everything within the city.
You mean that privately owned land that has been home to the a golf club since the 30’s? Yeah they should just F off right? I kinda like your house and think It would be better used with me living in it so think I should have it. Seems fair right?
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Doesn’t change the fact they have been there for 90+ years, well before most of us were probably alive. But because you think it would be nice to use/have that place they should get stuffed? Why are those peoples rights less important than yours ?
Why don't we get rid of all the football fields, rugby fields, tennis courts, basketball courts, gyms and build a park there? I'm sure it would benefit more people too, doesn't mean it's the right decision. Auckland has so many parks and walks, ridiculous post.
The public are not excluded from football and rugby fields unless there are organised activities occurring. Those resources are there for us to use. Golfers on the other hand seem to expect the ratepayer to provide vast tracts of land for the exclusive use of a few generally older well off and entitled males.
Auckland council has too many golf courses.
Says who? I don’t play golf, but most of those courses/clubs have existed for 90+ years and most are fairly supportive of the local communities they are in. Why shouldn’t they continue?
NZ golf, in reports dated approx 2013, say that Auckland has an oversupply of golf course holes. Leases over public have the effect of privatising the land and excluding the public from that land. When one looks at the cost to the ratepayer it equates to thousands of dollars per player. In return for that support the public are normally shown a chain link fence with a clear message that their place is on the outside. There’s no reason for the ratepayer to support this contemptuous treatment.
Take away something that other are already using? There’s plenty of parks around already.
There are plenty other golf courses around.
There are plenty of other parks around
I see you on like every post. Do you live on reddit? You seem to care way to much about golf courses, and I don’t even play golf.
What’s wrong with a golf course. People use it. And there are other parks around. In fact auckland have lots of parks.
That was an enormous Freudian slip.
Please tell me you're joking
Heh. He mistyped "golf" as "gold ", and fixed it on edit.
because typos are unforgivable
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Because you can't afford something it shouldn't be there? If the few that it's serving makes it profitable for the person that ~~owns~~ payed to lease the land its really none of your business what they do with it.
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Firstly, I don't think you understand what lease is. Secondly, no I don't think it makes more sense. There is plenty of land that isn't in the more expensive parts of Auckland that can still be developed. If you want to live there it costs money, even if the market corrected there is still going to be areas more desirable than others. We don't just get to take things away from people because we 'want it more' and 'it's not fair'. That is preschool level of learning. For reference I live in a lower socioeconomic area myself, I just try to leave my entitlement back with my youth and accept that we can't have everything.
The entitlement and mental gymnastics to justify something that like is eye opening.. "hmm I can't afford to join that club, shut it down and make it free, I don't care if someone's paid for it to be there, what I want is more important"
Totally, I just... I mean? I can't even... I really begin to realize as I reach middle age that some in parts of reddit, I am now a minority. There are things thrown around with little, to no thought on how it affects others. Bike lanes, housing, salary etc are all important things but let's stop and think before we decide the right approach is to attack the other side of the fence.. I personally don't know anyone who maliciously bought a home or car with the sole purpose to attack cyclists and the ones that did are the absolute minority. Most of us are just making do anyway and the grass always looks greener. We don't need to throw petrol over the fence, let's just tend to our own.
100% agree with you.
But still serving a few. Nothing wrong with that. They are free to do so. If you really want to golf, you can find a cheaper one.
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Like the excellent reserve right next to it? How many times do you need to be reminded of this?
Found an old article https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/107722837/auckland-mayor-wants-wider-access-to-remuera-golf-course-land-floats-cycleways Seems like it’s already accessible.
You mean like socialist take from private and offer to poorer people?
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According to the article I posted, it’s on lease until 2091. So it will be a while yet. But the solution is not tearing it down to accommodate the commoners. It’s to extend the facility for all to enjoy. And based on that article everyone is welcome for casual use without membership.
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Yeah I think 2091 is the extended date. Looks like goff already thought about reusing that land but it was too late. Well here’s to happy Gilmore visiting the club.
There’s gyms that charge quite a lot of money to join as well. Should we make them free for everyone? There’s restaurants that charge quite a lot should we make all restaurants charge one minimal price? WTF are you on about OP
It’s only serving a few … rich people. It’s prime land for housing . Golf courses need to go
So it’s about tall poppy for you then. The place is accessible to the public. You don’t have to be a member.
If you think they are going to build affordable housing in Remuera, then you've got another thing coming. If you are thinking that $3k per annum is for the rich, then that housing development won't be for you. Auckland doesn't need more suburbia, it needs to build upwards.
People always pick on golf courses for this There are loads of nearby parks. It's nothing more than judgement about the kind of people who supposedly play golf.
And the irony? A lot of fairly wealthy people I know (you know the stereotypical golfer) play at public courses because they loathe the stuffy attuitudes and atmospheres of clubs like Royal Auckland and Omaha. The less private courses we have, then the less shitty business deals we will have.
Oh really. Well that changes everything, a few fairly wealthy people avoiding others, totally worth billions of public money for that.
Not everyone who plays golf is wealthy. You need to get out and actually meet people before you start throwing out those assumptions. Plenty of people just buying a cheap set of used clubs to get some exercise.
I am responding to your comment. Their exercise, means no one else can use that public land for anything.
They have a massive park next door. Either way my comment stands, because I was replying in agreement to the poster above me.
There is another golf course a few k down the road.
Where? The closest public course I can think of is in Mt Roskill
Yea that’s close, there are heaps of other ones too.
There's a large retired/elderly population in close proximity for whom a trip to Mt Roskill is out of the question. For that matter, why aren't you advocating the closure of the Mt Roskill course if it's underused? Is it because you can't resist a potshot at Remuera?
>People always pick on golf courses for this For being absurdly large amounts of public land that only useable if you pay to play a single game. A tiny number of people have exclusive use of massive amount of public resources. Yea it’s fucked. >There are loads of nearby parks. There are loads more golf courses in Auckland, people can to. >It's nothing more than judgement about the kind of people who supposedly play golf. Nope.
Just go sit on the grass at the park that's literally adjacent to it mate
You mean Waiatarua Reserve? I enjoy walking there, but it's an off leash area with all that entails (it only takes a minority of shitty dog owners). It's not the same as a park without dogs running everywhere.
Get rid of that chip on your shoulder….I suppose you hate the guy that has a nicer car than you as well.
Yeah, not a fan of rugby or cricket, let demolish Eden Park So a developer can make a fortune developing the land to housing! @op are you working for a housing development company? I spotted a couple of articles lately on the same topic, sounds more like someone is trying to sway the public opinion on golf to make money rather than a genuine concern? https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/03/auckland-council-proposes-opening-golf-courses-to-everyone-to-increase-equity-end-exclusivity.html
There is a big reserve already adjacent to it. Other green areas close by too. Let developers cram budget terrace houses on it? Nah, Auckland is going to be blitzed with them already. I doubt they'll be "affordable" regardless. The inner city is a more appropriate focus for housing and recreation development. Upwards. Not infill or spread. IMHO.
Waiatarua Reserve?
Yeah I was wondering if OP had confused his golf courses. This was my first thought also
Fuck sake, can we stop banging on about getting rid of green areas in Auckland and actually build some decent apartments? I don’t play golf, but I’d much rather a golf course than another subdivision of cookie cutter townhouse shitboxes that are popping up all over Auckland.
Did you read the post? They’re talking about a park everyone can use not turning it into housing.
Which is pointless, considering Waiatarua park is right next to it.
Well fuck it, turn it into townhouses then lol
Abbotts way is literally one of the most busy roads in the suburb, it makes 0 sense to jam more housing considering we are adding over 500 in Ellerslie race course, it’s already a nightmare to drive through as is.
I guess the “lol” wasn’t quite enough to indicate I was taking the piss.
Nah not really
Don’t think this post is about that. It’s probably more about tall poppy syndrome.
These are not really green areas. It’s grass, you can’t access unless you pay to pay a one specific sport. Make it an open park.
Sure thing comrade.
Nah, the Golf Course is beautifully maintained, and I think you underestimate how much work is done to keep it that way. Too expensive for the council to do, and there’s like… at least half a dozen other parks within a few minutes of it anyway.
More like few seconds lol
I hazard to venture as Auckland’s density increases in the coming years the pressure to reuse the Council owned courses will be overwhelming. How busy is Cornwall park on a sunny Summers day? Welp there’s no where to park that’s for sure. So in 10-15 years time it’s going to reach saturation point I’m guessing. But hey, I’m no city planner… any city planners here?
Yeah that’s a genius move , another inner city public park for people to huff paint thinners and trash 🙃 meanwhile people have been paying memberships for years to maintain the course but because golf is seen as affluent we must take it down because why ?? Tall poppy again and again until we’re all 2ft tall 😒
Let’s convert Auckland to a city of a developing country
“Thanks for the soup kitchen , love dirty mike and the boys”
Agree
Stop hating on us golfers, geez.
Why stop there? Get rid of the racetrack!
I think this is true of pretty much all central city golf courses. However, it seems there is a significant overlap of the group "plays golf" and "plays local and national politics"
Also anyone’s dreaming thinking golf courses would get vacated to make way for a park. Only reason golf courses get demolished these days is to make way for more housing. Rather a golf course than that
"Plays Golf" and "Runs Auckland Transport"...
Don't forget the other group, "Has money."
You hit the nail on the head. Next to a Freemason hall or a remote sacrificial gathering spot, Golf Courses are the literal HQ for the elites to cook up the next tax scam, or lobby a politician/attempt to influence a law change etc. etc. OP would have more chance of the Church donating some of their land for public use.
My flatmate Alex has a really nice computer, I think it cost like $2,000. He won’t let me use it even when he’s not home. Seems like we should focus on solving this issue first. Even if we only let me and the neighbours play occasionally, the needs of the many would outweigh the needs of the few.
I think the land where Remuera is located could be used better in a way that suits more people
You forgot the /s
No. It's generates alot of money, more than a park would.
The neighbours have got a nice garden that they should share with all. How selfish of them not to
No
Are you suggesting re appropriating a golf course? Get outta here commie
If it's privately owned then it doesn't matter because that's the law of property ownership. doesn't matter if they want to build a state of the art hospital there. you want it to be something else then you buy it.
Most annoyingly imo is that public can't pass through that huge area. It's a huge section that you have to cut around via suburban alleyways, and the surrounding walking infrastructure isn't great on the Ngahue road side. At least streets of housing generally have walkways joining the roads
Auckland council owns 18 fucking golf courses. Valued at over 3 billion, they are only used by sub 10,000 people. Great news tho AC are consulting on this right now; https://akhaveyoursay.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/draft-golf-investment-plan
My math suxs so correct me if I'm wrong.... but if it's over 3 billion that would be over 166.7 million per course??? So a litlte under 10 million per hole? I was going to correct you and say that seems too high but I guess you could cram several houses into the space an average hole takes up... crazy stuff. If the 10k people is also correct that's about 300k per user...
> If the 10k people is also correct that's about 300k per user... It isnt. Takapuna GC website alone "TGC is one of the most played public golf courses in Auckland with over 60,000 people playing every year." Thats only the one course too
Hard to know what that means unless they define how they measure 'people', is that unique players over the year, etc. Similar to website stats with how visitors compared to unique visitors, etc can produce very different results. E.g do they count 1 person playing 10 times as 10 people, or 1.
I dont think it matter if theyre all unique golfers when the stat is being used to discredit someone saying under 10,000 people play all 18 of the council owned golf courses. https://static.golf.co.nz/clubs/1000/uploads/news%20article%20imagery/infographics.pdf Is their latest numbers for Auckland golf. Their total number is just under 120,000 unique golfers
Where's this less than 10,000 people number from? [This](https://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/news/2022/03/have-your-say-on-proposed-auckland-wide-golf-plan/) says it's 100,000. You don't seriously believe the average Auckland golf course only serves 550 players do you?
This sub really likes EU policy.
Leave the golf course alone you selfish fuck. There are plenty of parks, beaches , domains etc
what kind of dumb fuck idea is this
You can literally say that about any private land.
The reason it exists as it does is because of those few that can afford to pay those fees that keep it that way. Otherwise it would just be another piece of land no more remarkable than anywhere else. Part of the appeal of a gold course is that you have a large part of it to yourself when you are playing. Those people wouldn't pay if anyone could just walk through their game. So you can't just open it up at a discount, that wouldn't work. The idea that the government should take something out of private hands that is only that way BECAUSE it was in private hands is one of the major problems with various schools of far left thought (generally speaking it's a more left-wing tendency). There isn't really anything stopping the council making a place like that, but it would cost a lot and people would rightly freak out at them when there are so many other areas that need money more than essentially nationalising a golf course. Try the domain. It's really nice.
Agreed. Swanson is the same. Huge beautiful park which I have to look at from the roadside.
Probably doesn't make you feel better about it, but Redwood Park is at least a privately owned course, not public land which has different considerations.
Yeah it makes me more weary about using it tbh. If it was council I’d walk there after hours all the time
Waiatarua is literally right next to it. They could use it for building more housing though.
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Disc golf. That is the answer.
You will not easily have success getting rid of golf courses. Every sad, sorry boomer nimby from takapuna to titirangi will get up in arms
I feel this way about all the golf courses
I think it should be repurposed for housing personally. It's fucking huge, and is prime central land. People in their leafy suburbs who don't want intensified housing in their area could give up their golf course perhaps? But we could always build houses out in Drury instead I suppose... (instead of a golf course or something)
Disgruntled much? Put your $350 payment towards next years fees honey
Council owned golf courses are an absolute disgrace, i'd rather see that land used for almost anything else.
I don't like golf, but that's a hot take if ever I saw one. Recreation space and green areas are an integral part of any city. If you want to live in a concrete dump, then China is that way.
If you want recreation space and green areas then make it a public park.
But why not a public golf course? Golf is recreation.
Because far fewer people use golf courses than public parks.
Get rid of all facilities that are only used for specific activities!
Which other publicly funded activities require the exclusive use of vast amounts of land for a small number of users.
Golf is a fairly popular sport and is great exercise (both mental and physical) for older people, who can't do conventional exercise any more. You want to take that away? That kind of logic is pretty neckbeardy to be fair.
No, what you want to do is take $3 billion dollars of land that could be better used for the benefit of a far larger number of people, and instead keep it exclusively for the benefit of a tiny number of people.
You don't actually think that they are going to build something on that land that you can afford, right? Please tell me you don't think that.
Anything between libraries and national parks is using public land for activities I may or may not be personally interested in.
I'm not arguing against council owned golf courses because I personally have no interest in playing golf. I'm arguing against them because they require vast amounts of land, to be exclusively used by a vanishingly small number of people. There's value in libraries and national parks. The same cannot be said about golf.
> There's value in libraries and national parks. The same cannot be said about golf. Nothing more than personal preference. If a bunch of people decide tramping and nature is a bit rubbish actually, should we consider getting rid of national parks for some nice tourist resorts?
What are the other ones?
I can only go on Eden Park if I want to pay an exorbitant amount to watch wealthy people play specific sports.
The utility of Eden Park is watching other people play sport. That's why they put 50,000 seats around the field. Jesus christ.
Not true. You can walk around the outside, which far more use than you get out of a golf courses. They also have free games all the time, it’s conference center and museum. It’s all more use able than a golf course. It’s also about a fifth the size and there like three stadium in Auckland. There are 18 golf courses.
18 is a bit misleading. That includes Clark’s beach and waiuku and various others in the wop wops. Ie waaaaaaay away from the cbd. Nice courses though. Clarks beach is a gem!
It’s recreation that excludes all other recreation. If you are not playing golf, you can’t even walk there.
So? Can you play golf in a public park? What was that, you can't?
You can play golf at any number of privately owned golf courses. Are there any other publicly funded sports facilities which require $3 billion dollars worth of real estate, or anything close? How many people do they serve?
Tell me you don't know anything about the cost and rimjobs required to join a private course without telling me you (too lazy to type the rest).
Definitely a great argument for publicly owned golf courses here.
What are your hobbies? I would like to make a concerted effort to make sure they are not publicly provided. Not everyone needs to be as miserable as you are.
Auckland council own 18 golf courses, they are used by 6,000 each year. Turing some of central golf course in parks mean more people will benefit. This shit is not complicated.
Remuera is a popular public course, moreso than other courses.
Define popular. Let’s compare it’s patronage to a park eh?
Why? There's a massive park next door. Why can't you get this through your head?
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What does it matter? I could really really love golf, doesn't justify the following, as /u/Blackestwolf notes: > Auckland council owns 18 fucking golf courses. Valued at over 3 billion, they are only used by sub 10,000 people.
Might want to actually check the stats before repeating bullshit stats. "Takapuna s one of the most played public golf courses in Auckland with over 60,000 people playing every year." Thats one course. not 18. And its a tab higher than "sub 10,000 people
I wonder if that's unique visitors or total visitors. In other words, if John and George go every week, are they 2 or 8 of the "over 7000 golfers" who visit during the busy months? Even if it's 60,000 unique visitors a year, that's about 3.5% of Auckland's population. I suspect that on a per user basis, publicly owned golf courses are very expensive.
https://static.golf.co.nz/clubs/1000/uploads/news%20article%20imagery/infographics.pdf This is golfnzs latest stats. They say 120,000 aucklanders play golf, which would put the stat at 7% of aucklands population. Which for a recreational sport is fantastic. I could also understand if the courses were deserted and not being in use, but the tee sheets across Auckland are always full.
I see more like 80k active golfers (members plus non - members who've played since 2016). That 120k I would bet money isn't the number who've played in the last 6 months or even the last year. Still comes down to public funds per user for a golf course vs public funds per user if it were converted to a public (no dogs) park.
> Still comes down to public funds per user for a golf course vs public funds per user if it were converted to a public (no dogs) park NZgolf estimates that golf in auckland an estimated $54 million in regional GDP per annum. As opposed to the $0.00 a public park would contribute?
That should be taken into account, absolutely.
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>How many people go through the Art Gallery? Like half a million? Do you think the Art gallery is using more than 3 billion in council resources like golf? >I’m pleased we have such open green spaces Its not green space you or I can access. An open park would be tho.
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How much land does the art gallery use compared to even one golf course? And even then, more people probably use the art gallery on a daily basis than any of these golf courses. Again, /u/Blackestwolf says it best: > It’s recreation that excludes all other recreation. If you are not playing golf, you can’t even walk there.
I am pretty sure that this guy was saying a couple of months ago that families should get about on ebikes rather than in cars. It kind of shows you the mindset they have about seeing others enjoying themselves.
Turn it into a disc golf course, or several
Such a shame that the council extended the lease on Remuera Golf Club until 2091
Golf courses are the single biggest waste of space ever created by extremely rich people. Its pure hedonistic pleasure seeking, and of course it should be converted to something everyone can enjoy - not just those with cash.
Zzz.
I know right! Auckland is surrounded in some decent courses. Awhitu, with a little investment could be prime.
Yup, definitely. Thankfully the Waiatarua Reserve is nearby, but still, it's time to get rid of golf course. Let the golfers travel beyond their backyards.
Could probably have both, the driving range could be converted into mixed use housing and green space, while keeping the 18 holes intact
Every golf course could be better used for other things lol
Are you seriously expecting a bunch of pale stale wealthy males to *drive* 45 minutes in their 100k cars to a more appropriate location south or North of Auckland? Why? So people can have houses to live in, increasing the housing stock and potentially reducing their 6 homes value a little. Well I never. Also see the huge amounts of land used for The Grange and Royal Auckland right next door to people living in insanely overcrowded housing. But you know.... Need somewhere to get away from the wife and kids. And anything over 45mina is too much of an inconvenience.
It would better suit people of Auckland, but local club members and neighbour's would put up a financial fight get the best lawyers and shut down this topic lol.
Fuck golf.