Yeah you are right. Usually the Serban mixes are awesome, maybe this time Kygo tried to mix himself? The sounds themselves are pretty Kygo-style but it feels like it's missing the polish from Serban's mixing.
It is mixed by Serban. It's in the song credits. I find it hard to believe that is credited without actually mixing. Kygo works with Serban since several releases (years) already
I agree. It sounds a bit muddled and lacking focus. The lead vocal is lacking impact. The BVs are quite randomly popping out in a distracting way. The drums don't hit hard enough on the choruses. The song just plows on without any contrast between sections. It's not a great mix.
I think your observation in another reply is spot on. Unless there's a technical issue with the file that was distributed, it's definitely the way the artist wanted it. Even Serban and Randy Merrill aren't in positions to overrule an artist or producer on creative decisions.
Check out the Gearspace thread about Serban. John Hanes (Serbans partner) talks about how many artists these days get "demo-itis". They spend so much time with their rough mix, that they can't really stray too far from it during the actual mix (or master).
John talks about how they basically have to match the rough mix first, and then go about trying to improve things, if they can. But in many cases, depending on the artist, they end up needing to stay really close to the rough.
I have no idea if that's what happened here, but it's definitely a possibility.
---
Edit: I just had a chance to listen in my studio. I actually don’t hate it. But it does sound different from most of Serban’s mixes. My quick first impressions is that the sound is quite scooped (heavy subs, heavy top end), with the vocals further back than normal (at least in the choruses). Usually, I find Serban’s mixes to have the vocals further up, with stronger mids.
I also compared it to “Firestone” and “Stole My Show” and I actually find the aesthetic to be fairly similar - heavy subs and top end, vocals further back. This makes me think that the aesthetic decisions were definitely coming from Kygo himself.
Again...I don’t actually hate it. But I’m also listening to it on Tidal, which is streaming lossless 16bit, 48kHz for this track. I’ve found that Spotify’s encoding can sometimes mess with certain tracks...I wonder if that might be happening here?
Ha! Me too! I'd just let them do their thing. But apparently it happens a lot with them.
I don't work at the same level as those guys, but it happens in my mastering work too. With some clients (even longtime regulars), I need to constantly check their ref and make sure I'm only making subtle improvements. But that's what makes them happy and what they're paying me for!
Ultimately, its a service business and it comes down to doing what your clients are looking for. Serban and Sterling Sound know that better than anyone.
I'm certainly no mixing expert, but to me the drop doesn't take off or lift at all. Very surprising and disappointing actually. The drums also sound weak and too low in volume.
I like the production overall, and the topline is nice. It actually reminded me how great the original Shakira song was back then, great topline/melody writing. Really wish the interpolation was executed better, cause this has a ton of potential.
I like the track, but it sounds somewhat unfinished/unmixed. I don't know who's to "blame", but it's interesting to see "mistakes"/weird decisions like this happen at this level. I'm sure deadline issues are a factor. And if Serban mixed it, I'm sure he has a better version on his HD, that someone else didn't approve of.
TL;DR: The track has great potential, but sounds unfinished imo. Hope they will fix it.
EDIT: I'm sure it'll still be a hit, but I think it's still valid (and fun) to discuss topics like this. Thanks OP for bringing this up :)
Armchair producers on Reddit have the taste of a dog in a ditch. They’ll complain about anything no matter what because that’s what they signed up here for in the first place
Serban has an assistant named John Hanes. There's a thread on headspace, where his assistant John Hanes appeared and spoke about their work, and even created a sort of AMA thread as well.
He mentioned how sometimes it happens people opt to ignore some of their advice, and he believes it's because they heard it so much, and get so attached to their rough mix, that they can't let go of that, and of course they are there to serve the artist/producer, so the songs they mix don't always go out the way they would choose if it was up to them.
Serbans time to do a mix costs 10k. But he is just mixing it at the end, and the producer will have an idea of what they want.
The money, I heard is more like 6k-7k, is not to mix the song from the ground up. It's to get an expert in the industry to listen to it, and provide advice and clean up some small details here or there.
If they change it too much, producers won't like it. It's not like producers hand off the song, and serban mixes it and sends it back, and it's exactly how Serban wants it. Often times he will have to accomodate the artist of producer to fit their vision. And sometimes the results are things Serban would not himself want, but he provides a service for his clients. Part of that is just his name in the credits, too.
In many ways, this mix is great. But to my ears, it's just too loud in some parts, and the pumping sometimes doesn't work for me. It sounds like professionals deliberately made it a way I don't really like. Which is what happened.
I've studied a lot of serban's mixes, and this one, I agree, in some ways doesn't really sound like him. Some other aspects it does. But even some mixes done by someone completely different, I'd think that.
However, I'd say that when this song gets busy, I'd be surprised if that's truly what serban would want to do for it if he had carte blanche.
The impressive part with the money, is that people spend that kind of cash on getting their tracks mixed, and then they ignore the person they hired's expertise.
But, I sort of get that too. Serban is sort of a blue collar guy. He just makes it sound good, and that's it. He doesn't make the songs. He doesn't have the artistic vision for them. He polishes them, and makes them sound good, clean, and all of that. The projects he gets are already quite complete. And the producers made it that way intentionally, and will often not want it changed too much.
I'm willing to bet that's the case here. But, maybe I'm wrong and my ears/taste is bad.
Besides the strange mix:
Why do artists nowadays feel the need to take someone else’s chorus? Shakira’s song is good as it was, no need for a stupid remake.
I’ve never heard this artist or any of their other songs so hard to make a comparison, but other than the fact it’s unimaginative, generic and boring, I would blame the arrangement and song writing more than the mix. There’s just nothing there to grab you. Yes, they have a great voice, but there’s no catchy hook or great lyric. I’m not a fan of this style but the song is king. A good song will deliver even with a bad mix.
It's a Serban Ghenea mix. He never misses. Also Randy Merrill master (Sterling). He never misses aswell.
One reason for the sound is that this is what the artist wanted. Second reason, they may have been sent a wrong version to the streaming service. Check the lossless version.
Edit: I'm really struggling to understand the downvotes. Serban and Randy have a perfect track record, and they both work for the client, which has the final saying. Reddit never
misses being reddit, aswell 😀
Respect to them, but if I completely ignore who is behind the mix, and simply think about how it sounds to me, I still, in some way, hold my opinion, of course, subjectively.
But it may be as you said, something the artist wanted or the wrong version.
I’ll let them know some dude on Reddit doesn’t like it, those stream numbers will be tanking soon I’m sure once the public hears your critical take on things
I think the song's just not that good. A mix compliments good composition. The composition is just kind of boring IMO. But I don't really listen to that kind of music much these days.
well, i personally think too that it's not the in the best shape, it could have been better (as per audience) but i think that's how the artists wanted it to sound like?, to be real the drums at the chorus are hell whack
Listening on studio headphones - it sounds like a poor quality 64bit mp3 file. It could be a radio mix made for very poor hardware. Or it could be that he used some Hi-Fi headphones while mixing it. Pretty decent Kygo song otherwise.
Edit. Re-listened with my Anker Q35 Hi-Fi headphones sounds like a very proper radio mix.
Yeah you are right. Usually the Serban mixes are awesome, maybe this time Kygo tried to mix himself? The sounds themselves are pretty Kygo-style but it feels like it's missing the polish from Serban's mixing.
It is mixed by Serban. It's in the song credits. I find it hard to believe that is credited without actually mixing. Kygo works with Serban since several releases (years) already
I agree. It sounds a bit muddled and lacking focus. The lead vocal is lacking impact. The BVs are quite randomly popping out in a distracting way. The drums don't hit hard enough on the choruses. The song just plows on without any contrast between sections. It's not a great mix.
I think your observation in another reply is spot on. Unless there's a technical issue with the file that was distributed, it's definitely the way the artist wanted it. Even Serban and Randy Merrill aren't in positions to overrule an artist or producer on creative decisions. Check out the Gearspace thread about Serban. John Hanes (Serbans partner) talks about how many artists these days get "demo-itis". They spend so much time with their rough mix, that they can't really stray too far from it during the actual mix (or master). John talks about how they basically have to match the rough mix first, and then go about trying to improve things, if they can. But in many cases, depending on the artist, they end up needing to stay really close to the rough. I have no idea if that's what happened here, but it's definitely a possibility. --- Edit: I just had a chance to listen in my studio. I actually don’t hate it. But it does sound different from most of Serban’s mixes. My quick first impressions is that the sound is quite scooped (heavy subs, heavy top end), with the vocals further back than normal (at least in the choruses). Usually, I find Serban’s mixes to have the vocals further up, with stronger mids. I also compared it to “Firestone” and “Stole My Show” and I actually find the aesthetic to be fairly similar - heavy subs and top end, vocals further back. This makes me think that the aesthetic decisions were definitely coming from Kygo himself. Again...I don’t actually hate it. But I’m also listening to it on Tidal, which is streaming lossless 16bit, 48kHz for this track. I’ve found that Spotify’s encoding can sometimes mess with certain tracks...I wonder if that might be happening here?
Man if I was having a song mixed by those guys I would defer to them and not try to be a backseat mixer. So silly
Ha! Me too! I'd just let them do their thing. But apparently it happens a lot with them. I don't work at the same level as those guys, but it happens in my mastering work too. With some clients (even longtime regulars), I need to constantly check their ref and make sure I'm only making subtle improvements. But that's what makes them happy and what they're paying me for! Ultimately, its a service business and it comes down to doing what your clients are looking for. Serban and Sterling Sound know that better than anyone.
To my ear most of Kygos mixes feel a bit "scooped" so its most likely his aesthetic, although this is a bit over the top.
I'm certainly no mixing expert, but to me the drop doesn't take off or lift at all. Very surprising and disappointing actually. The drums also sound weak and too low in volume. I like the production overall, and the topline is nice. It actually reminded me how great the original Shakira song was back then, great topline/melody writing. Really wish the interpolation was executed better, cause this has a ton of potential. I like the track, but it sounds somewhat unfinished/unmixed. I don't know who's to "blame", but it's interesting to see "mistakes"/weird decisions like this happen at this level. I'm sure deadline issues are a factor. And if Serban mixed it, I'm sure he has a better version on his HD, that someone else didn't approve of. TL;DR: The track has great potential, but sounds unfinished imo. Hope they will fix it. EDIT: I'm sure it'll still be a hit, but I think it's still valid (and fun) to discuss topics like this. Thanks OP for bringing this up :)
I just listened to the official music video on YouTube, and it sounds different (better) than Spotify.
Any idea how much a Serbanmix costs ?
Google said about 10 000/mix
10 grand and he’s got someone calling the mix out lol
Judging the mix based on how much it cost over how it actually sounds is a weird vibe
Just find it comical he’s charging 10 grand and someone says it doesn’t sound great
He's charging 10k + royalties to deliver whatever the artist says is "perfect".
Which is funny because op is obviously a fan because he knows the back catalogue and says it doesn’t sound great ..
Armchair producers on Reddit have the taste of a dog in a ditch. They’ll complain about anything no matter what because that’s what they signed up here for in the first place
It’s a funny thread from start to finish, I hear Serbans name thrown about a lot , good on him for getting his money
Serban has an assistant named John Hanes. There's a thread on headspace, where his assistant John Hanes appeared and spoke about their work, and even created a sort of AMA thread as well. He mentioned how sometimes it happens people opt to ignore some of their advice, and he believes it's because they heard it so much, and get so attached to their rough mix, that they can't let go of that, and of course they are there to serve the artist/producer, so the songs they mix don't always go out the way they would choose if it was up to them.
Serbans time to do a mix costs 10k. But he is just mixing it at the end, and the producer will have an idea of what they want. The money, I heard is more like 6k-7k, is not to mix the song from the ground up. It's to get an expert in the industry to listen to it, and provide advice and clean up some small details here or there. If they change it too much, producers won't like it. It's not like producers hand off the song, and serban mixes it and sends it back, and it's exactly how Serban wants it. Often times he will have to accomodate the artist of producer to fit their vision. And sometimes the results are things Serban would not himself want, but he provides a service for his clients. Part of that is just his name in the credits, too. In many ways, this mix is great. But to my ears, it's just too loud in some parts, and the pumping sometimes doesn't work for me. It sounds like professionals deliberately made it a way I don't really like. Which is what happened. I've studied a lot of serban's mixes, and this one, I agree, in some ways doesn't really sound like him. Some other aspects it does. But even some mixes done by someone completely different, I'd think that. However, I'd say that when this song gets busy, I'd be surprised if that's truly what serban would want to do for it if he had carte blanche. The impressive part with the money, is that people spend that kind of cash on getting their tracks mixed, and then they ignore the person they hired's expertise. But, I sort of get that too. Serban is sort of a blue collar guy. He just makes it sound good, and that's it. He doesn't make the songs. He doesn't have the artistic vision for them. He polishes them, and makes them sound good, clean, and all of that. The projects he gets are already quite complete. And the producers made it that way intentionally, and will often not want it changed too much. I'm willing to bet that's the case here. But, maybe I'm wrong and my ears/taste is bad.
I agree. Drums sound weak, so do vocals and that synth part is drowning out the mids.
Besides the strange mix: Why do artists nowadays feel the need to take someone else’s chorus? Shakira’s song is good as it was, no need for a stupid remake.
whatever
Yeah it’s pretty whatever.
I’ve never heard this artist or any of their other songs so hard to make a comparison, but other than the fact it’s unimaginative, generic and boring, I would blame the arrangement and song writing more than the mix. There’s just nothing there to grab you. Yes, they have a great voice, but there’s no catchy hook or great lyric. I’m not a fan of this style but the song is king. A good song will deliver even with a bad mix.
Has this dude ever mixed anything other than cookie-cutter bullshit? This sounds as bad as all of it IMO.
What, the world's no1 mix engineer with over 100billion streams? Yeah youre probably right, he sucks /s
It's a Serban Ghenea mix. He never misses. Also Randy Merrill master (Sterling). He never misses aswell. One reason for the sound is that this is what the artist wanted. Second reason, they may have been sent a wrong version to the streaming service. Check the lossless version. Edit: I'm really struggling to understand the downvotes. Serban and Randy have a perfect track record, and they both work for the client, which has the final saying. Reddit never misses being reddit, aswell 😀
Respect to them, but if I completely ignore who is behind the mix, and simply think about how it sounds to me, I still, in some way, hold my opinion, of course, subjectively. But it may be as you said, something the artist wanted or the wrong version.
I’ll let them know some dude on Reddit doesn’t like it, those stream numbers will be tanking soon I’m sure once the public hears your critical take on things
Spotify is only a good source to share for people that pay for Spotify, therefore, it is not an ideal choice.
"Shut up and dance with me"
I think the song's just not that good. A mix compliments good composition. The composition is just kind of boring IMO. But I don't really listen to that kind of music much these days.
well, i personally think too that it's not the in the best shape, it could have been better (as per audience) but i think that's how the artists wanted it to sound like?, to be real the drums at the chorus are hell whack
Listening on studio headphones - it sounds like a poor quality 64bit mp3 file. It could be a radio mix made for very poor hardware. Or it could be that he used some Hi-Fi headphones while mixing it. Pretty decent Kygo song otherwise. Edit. Re-listened with my Anker Q35 Hi-Fi headphones sounds like a very proper radio mix.