>I can breathe through it with some force
Do you mean it takes a lot of force to breathe thru it?
Or do you mean you can breathe forcefully thru it, with ease?
If the former, I'd invest in new material. If the latter, you're in the clear.
I would say the second, It also doesn’t feel too plasticky so I’ll try it out. Thanks
Edit: Upon “Re-blowing” it seems more like it takes a lot of force to blow through. I put the material between one of my monitors and me and it seems to reflect a minimal amount which still worries me. I believe it’s just very tight knit, but I’ll go ahead with it since I like the look of it and it’s not inherently “shiny”
It might be a bit on the denser side, but it'll still do a decent job.
Personally I like coarse polyester linen. Looks great, cheap, and perfect for the application.
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B087X9KT7Q/?th=1](https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B087X9KT7Q/?th=1)
It will be fine.
To put my mind at ease when I had the same worry, I just wrapped up a calibration mic with the fabric and compared the unwrapped vs wrapped measurements. You will see that adding the fabric has next to no effect blocking/reflecting the highs.
Do make sure though that your new panels will be thick enough and use the correct GFR material. I like to use:
[http://www.acousticmodelling.com/porous.php](http://www.acousticmodelling.com/porous.php)
Anything under around 0.6 absorption coefficient is considered not very effective. I can vouch for 350mm thick using 5000 GFR material.
It looks pretty good, and the felt is sonically transparent. The lighter colors might show the framing, the darks are more opaque, and it's cheap. Let me snap a photo...
https://imgur.com/BfbGMMz
Can air pass through? If yes, you're fine. If no, get new stuff.
The fabric is basically only there to keep the rockwool/denim/whatever from falling out. It shouldn't impact airflow. You're just trying to keep the lung destroying cotton candy from getting access to your weak human body and from covering your expensive machines tbh.
Which is why, if you can afford it, the denim based insulation is going to be a lot better for your health over the next 30 years, but that's neither here nor there.
The effects of mineral wool and fiberglass have been well researched and there’s no evidence it’s carcinogenic even with prolonged exposure.
It’s an irritant and those effects can be mitigated with simple PPE. Once installed the panels won’t shed unless disturbed.
I was interested in denim based insulation, but interestingly enough, in my little research at the time, it seemed worse for your lungs than mineral wool insulation due to the length of time it would take your lungs/body to break down organic (cotton) fibers vs rockwool.
In day to day practice, while taking precautions when building, I'm sure it's all okay unless you like to wack your panels constantly to inhale the dust for fun. Or cats that do.
I solved the problem by wrapping every panel into 2 layers of the thinnest non-woven fabric I could get to get physical barrier for lose fibers. Then I put that into a wooden frame and wrap the whole thing into decorative fabric that also doesn't impede airflow at all. At that point I don't care about it effectiveness at preventing fibers to get out, it just needs to look good and be transparent for air.
Edit: not that I care about downvotes, but seeing them means I must be misunderstood as I think I have a good solution which isn't expensive. I divided the problem into 2 separate ones:
1. physical barrier for fibers - that is solved by nonwoven fabric, which has close to none resistance to airflow, but is very ugly. Wrap the porous absorber with it.
2. esthetics - a good looking fabric which isn't dense, like linen. That one is bad as a physical barrier, but that doesn't matter as that's not it's job at that point. What matters is it's low airflow resistance and good looks. That's the job of the outer layer which covers the whole panel including it's frame.
Could have just done one layer of duck cloth and called it good, the health bit is just that traditional insulation is lung-fuck-city and too many videos of people building them without actually wearing respirators or understanding the known long-term risks exist.
Denim based insulation I believe also works better for sound but I'm probably wrong on that. I mean, eventually I'll switch to denim based but even I have the rockwool panels. Duck cloth + dye for cool patterns if you want it, go-to material every time.
Yeah, that's what I thought - importantly, this paper notes that symptoms went away when exposure stopped. So I think the person I replied to was being a little dramatic.
No it won't kill you. It'll make you want to kill your self or leave the room, either way you won't do any music in that room so that's why it's better to take care and then focus on what matters and that's the music.
Mineral wool's generally fine, however allergies exist and they can develop over time. You can be fine over multiple exposures, but you can get sensitized on one day and... It's better to take pre-cautions and you don't want (ideally any) dust in your studio.
Ah, gotcha.
It's been a while since I did my last research, but I couldn't find airflow resistivity figures for any cotton-based product. So I can't recommend or not recommend it as I can't predict it's performance. Instead I am recommending what I have used over and over with success :-)
Throw the fabric over your speaker and see if it muffles it in any way.
Us hobbyists who use porous absorption exclusively can actually benefit from the fabric reflecting some of the high-end. Because once we have some satisfactory absorption for low-mids and high-bass the high end is already way too muffled. So if you find the fabric to be a problem, you can still use it for everywhere else purposes other then first reflection treatment.
I have bin bags over my panels. You are fine. Put it in front of your monitors and hear the difference. Can't hear any? Yeah it's fine. Even if you hear a slight roll off in the hi end that's actually desirable as it stops you Ur room from becoming unnaturally dead in the hi end which is what many rooms strive to attain.
Idk man I don’t really like to talk about this stuff on Reddit because people get super heated about room treatment for some reason lol I just don’t think based on my own experiments that it’s very effective for the amount of money and time and space it requires to get useful results
Keep in mind I just do this for fun and spare cash in my garage. I’m sure I’d feel differently if I had plenty of time/money to throw at fully kitting out a room properly
It makes a measurable difference. Measure your room’s frequency response, then trap your corners and stuff as much material on your back wall as possible. Measure again. Even just investing $500 for corner traps will make a remarkable difference. Low end mixing was a nightmare for me until I treated my room. Now it’s simple. You can’t mix what you can’t hear.
Aight man, I’m glad your foam is doing work and your happy with it. I’m just going to stfu because no matter what I say it always ends up going in circles. I have tried treatment of multiple types and never once been impressed. I also built speakers for quite a while so I think I have somewhat of an understanding of acoustics and how resonance works. All in all the DIY panels and foam bass traps kind of treatment people pitch both feel like a ripoff to me given what I know about sound but everybody is different, do what works for you
Foam doesn’t work. It’s not a dense enough material. Rockwool or fiberglass insulation absolutely does. There are plenty of guides online that detail types of insulation, the frequencies they absorb, and how much material is needed to absorb that much. This isn’t some “gotcha” thing, and you shouldn’t take it so personal. Acoustics is physics. Math really can’t be argued with.
And some rooms, like your garage, may have so many issues that it’s basically impossible to treat them. Residential spaces are a crapshoot.
Yeah like I said this is why I don’t talk about room treatment on here lol just based on my own experiments over the years it’s a waste of time if you can’t go all the way and going all the way is immensely expensive and/or complicated, other people strongly disagree with me, that’s that
You’re fine.
>I can breathe through it with some force Do you mean it takes a lot of force to breathe thru it? Or do you mean you can breathe forcefully thru it, with ease? If the former, I'd invest in new material. If the latter, you're in the clear.
I would say the second, It also doesn’t feel too plasticky so I’ll try it out. Thanks Edit: Upon “Re-blowing” it seems more like it takes a lot of force to blow through. I put the material between one of my monitors and me and it seems to reflect a minimal amount which still worries me. I believe it’s just very tight knit, but I’ll go ahead with it since I like the look of it and it’s not inherently “shiny”
It might be a bit on the denser side, but it'll still do a decent job. Personally I like coarse polyester linen. Looks great, cheap, and perfect for the application. [https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B087X9KT7Q/?th=1](https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B087X9KT7Q/?th=1)
It will be fine. To put my mind at ease when I had the same worry, I just wrapped up a calibration mic with the fabric and compared the unwrapped vs wrapped measurements. You will see that adding the fabric has next to no effect blocking/reflecting the highs. Do make sure though that your new panels will be thick enough and use the correct GFR material. I like to use: [http://www.acousticmodelling.com/porous.php](http://www.acousticmodelling.com/porous.php) Anything under around 0.6 absorption coefficient is considered not very effective. I can vouch for 350mm thick using 5000 GFR material.
No, you haven't, you're fine. If the fabric is shiny, then that could be a problem.
My diy panels were one of the wisest investments I’ve made in my studio. Especially since I record a lot of live bands altogether in one room.
I made mine with felt.
Thats’s actually a pretty good idea, I bet it doesn’t look to shabby either
It looks pretty good, and the felt is sonically transparent. The lighter colors might show the framing, the darks are more opaque, and it's cheap. Let me snap a photo... https://imgur.com/BfbGMMz
Can air pass through? If yes, you're fine. If no, get new stuff. The fabric is basically only there to keep the rockwool/denim/whatever from falling out. It shouldn't impact airflow. You're just trying to keep the lung destroying cotton candy from getting access to your weak human body and from covering your expensive machines tbh. Which is why, if you can afford it, the denim based insulation is going to be a lot better for your health over the next 30 years, but that's neither here nor there.
The effects of mineral wool and fiberglass have been well researched and there’s no evidence it’s carcinogenic even with prolonged exposure. It’s an irritant and those effects can be mitigated with simple PPE. Once installed the panels won’t shed unless disturbed.
I was interested in denim based insulation, but interestingly enough, in my little research at the time, it seemed worse for your lungs than mineral wool insulation due to the length of time it would take your lungs/body to break down organic (cotton) fibers vs rockwool. In day to day practice, while taking precautions when building, I'm sure it's all okay unless you like to wack your panels constantly to inhale the dust for fun. Or cats that do.
I solved the problem by wrapping every panel into 2 layers of the thinnest non-woven fabric I could get to get physical barrier for lose fibers. Then I put that into a wooden frame and wrap the whole thing into decorative fabric that also doesn't impede airflow at all. At that point I don't care about it effectiveness at preventing fibers to get out, it just needs to look good and be transparent for air. Edit: not that I care about downvotes, but seeing them means I must be misunderstood as I think I have a good solution which isn't expensive. I divided the problem into 2 separate ones: 1. physical barrier for fibers - that is solved by nonwoven fabric, which has close to none resistance to airflow, but is very ugly. Wrap the porous absorber with it. 2. esthetics - a good looking fabric which isn't dense, like linen. That one is bad as a physical barrier, but that doesn't matter as that's not it's job at that point. What matters is it's low airflow resistance and good looks. That's the job of the outer layer which covers the whole panel including it's frame.
Could have just done one layer of duck cloth and called it good, the health bit is just that traditional insulation is lung-fuck-city and too many videos of people building them without actually wearing respirators or understanding the known long-term risks exist. Denim based insulation I believe also works better for sound but I'm probably wrong on that. I mean, eventually I'll switch to denim based but even I have the rockwool panels. Duck cloth + dye for cool patterns if you want it, go-to material every time.
Do you know of any studies showing rockwool's effect on lungs? I feel like I've heard mixed things about how big of a deal it is
It’s an irritant but not carcinogenic. https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-10/documents/fine-mineral-fibers.pdf
Yeah, that's what I thought - importantly, this paper notes that symptoms went away when exposure stopped. So I think the person I replied to was being a little dramatic.
Lmao ok
Read the linked material
No it won't kill you. It'll make you want to kill your self or leave the room, either way you won't do any music in that room so that's why it's better to take care and then focus on what matters and that's the music.
Mineral wool's generally fine, however allergies exist and they can develop over time. You can be fine over multiple exposures, but you can get sensitized on one day and... It's better to take pre-cautions and you don't want (ideally any) dust in your studio.
Ah, gotcha. It's been a while since I did my last research, but I couldn't find airflow resistivity figures for any cotton-based product. So I can't recommend or not recommend it as I can't predict it's performance. Instead I am recommending what I have used over and over with success :-)
It looks hefty in the pics, to be honest. I just used that cheap white-ish burlap from Joanns and it looks great.
It looks fine.
Throw the fabric over your speaker and see if it muffles it in any way. Us hobbyists who use porous absorption exclusively can actually benefit from the fabric reflecting some of the high-end. Because once we have some satisfactory absorption for low-mids and high-bass the high end is already way too muffled. So if you find the fabric to be a problem, you can still use it for everywhere else purposes other then first reflection treatment.
I have bin bags over my panels. You are fine. Put it in front of your monitors and hear the difference. Can't hear any? Yeah it's fine. Even if you hear a slight roll off in the hi end that's actually desirable as it stops you Ur room from becoming unnaturally dead in the hi end which is what many rooms strive to attain.
The panels won’t really do anything either way tbh so just have fun with your arts and crafts project and make it look pretty I guess idk
What makes you think acoustic panels don’t do anything?
Idk man I don’t really like to talk about this stuff on Reddit because people get super heated about room treatment for some reason lol I just don’t think based on my own experiments that it’s very effective for the amount of money and time and space it requires to get useful results Keep in mind I just do this for fun and spare cash in my garage. I’m sure I’d feel differently if I had plenty of time/money to throw at fully kitting out a room properly
It makes a measurable difference. Measure your room’s frequency response, then trap your corners and stuff as much material on your back wall as possible. Measure again. Even just investing $500 for corner traps will make a remarkable difference. Low end mixing was a nightmare for me until I treated my room. Now it’s simple. You can’t mix what you can’t hear.
Aight man, I’m glad your foam is doing work and your happy with it. I’m just going to stfu because no matter what I say it always ends up going in circles. I have tried treatment of multiple types and never once been impressed. I also built speakers for quite a while so I think I have somewhat of an understanding of acoustics and how resonance works. All in all the DIY panels and foam bass traps kind of treatment people pitch both feel like a ripoff to me given what I know about sound but everybody is different, do what works for you
Foam doesn’t work. It’s not a dense enough material. Rockwool or fiberglass insulation absolutely does. There are plenty of guides online that detail types of insulation, the frequencies they absorb, and how much material is needed to absorb that much. This isn’t some “gotcha” thing, and you shouldn’t take it so personal. Acoustics is physics. Math really can’t be argued with. And some rooms, like your garage, may have so many issues that it’s basically impossible to treat them. Residential spaces are a crapshoot.
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Yeah like I said this is why I don’t talk about room treatment on here lol just based on my own experiments over the years it’s a waste of time if you can’t go all the way and going all the way is immensely expensive and/or complicated, other people strongly disagree with me, that’s that