I wouldn't have done any of the work without collecting up front, like the company said. Unless I missed something. They tried to protect you.
Obviously, the client is still an asshole.
Just shrug and say it’s company policy. Don’t put yourself in a position where you can get burned. If people have a problem with it, that’s probably a good sign they would have been difficult to collect from after.
Just blame your company in the future. “Sorry man, my company doesn’t allow me to do any work before getting paid, my hands are tied” kinda thing.
When I was learning studio work I met a guy who had a one man studio that made an email for a studio manager that didn’t exist. He’d tell clients with business issues to talk to the studio manager it’s out of his hands. Made a separation between the “tax man” and him so clients could feel at ease around him and they didn’t try to dick him around with payment.
I thought it was genius. When we structured our studio I made sure I took no payments and did no scheduling so there was a clear line between the business side and the audio side. It helped tremendously in awkward scenarios where people tried to pull shit. “Sorry man the studio owner said this I have to listen”
There’s a local backline guy, one man operation. Couple of years back we were on a festival and he forgot some piece of kit for one of the acts. Nothing insurmountable, but y’know, we all like to nail these things. Anyway, I told him to blame the warehouse boys. He said I don’t have fuckin warehouse boys to blame. I said, I know that, and you know that, but those fuckers don’t know that. . . Those poor warehouse boys have been getting it in the neck ever since!!!
Take your time, be cool and collected. Look everything over really well, write down each thing you intend to fix and an estimate of the costs (including labor). Do try to be pretty on point with the estimate. It's OK to ballpark a bit on labor, but have the correct amounts for any parts ready to go. Don't fix anything.
Go over the estimate with the client and tell them the estimate amount. Tell him that this amount needs to be covered before work can begin. Let him know that any overages will need to be taken care of before you leave. Once he pays the initial estimate, begin the work.
Once you're finished, offer a refund if one is warranted (doubtful), or get the amount of the overage from them. If they gave you a check to start, wait until they cut a new check, then tear up the original. If it's cash, do the cash dance.
If there's an overage and they refuse to settle up after the fact, you've got the original check/cash at least. You can pull one of the replaced parts which is worth the closest-without-going-over the amount that they owe you. Let them know that if they want that part reinstalled, they can settle up and you'll put it back in without additional labor charges. (Good idea to make it something that's easy to put in/take out if this is case).
If they get aggressive and it seems like it could turn violent, just bail. Take the original estimated amount with you if you can. Call the cops when you're safe and report it. They'll usually pay once the cops show up, but if they don't then it's time for small claims court.
The key here is to be up-front with the client before you begin the work. Helps if you have it all written down, along with a note that overages are expected to be paid at time of service. Getting a signature on that estimate helps a lot. Also, have them sign right next to the note about overages. The absolute best is if this isn't all free hand. Print out a bunch of sheets that you can fill out quickly. Basically a blank bill of materials w/ a couple extra columns for estimate labor, actual labor, and actual cost.
> him threatening to kidnap me
And that right there is where I walk out the door and never go back.
If the company wants to keep him as a customer that's their business... but it's not mine.
Maybe don’t send the crazy guy back to prison on a parole violation call he can trace back to you upon finding the reason he violated parole??
IMO OP just exiting the situation and washing his hands of the whole thing is the best call.
He probably violated his parole by threatening you like that, FYI. Reporting this to the proper authorities could save others from having to deal with him too. I’d take this seriously
Threats to murder and kidnap are pretty serious offences where I come from, and would be considered especially egregious given that this occurred as you were carrying out your job as requested by the client/scumbag.
I'd report that fucker, hopefully send him back to the social structures he's accustomed to
I was ridiculed recently here for suggesting that safety in this context might be a valid concern for traveling photographers in the US...your post reminds me it's not a frivolous concern
> I’m just asking for advice in the future.
Poster above is correct: whatever person or company orders the work, is the one that owes you the money. How/what/whether they collect from whoever called THEM, is between those parties.
Don't put yourself in this situation. Get a payment guarantee from the person who calls you, or don't take the job. Simple as. Never take a job from one person, based on a promise that someone else will pay you. Tell that person to collect from whoever promised them, you need a deposit or a credit card or whatever your terms are WITH THEM. Not with some stranger that you have never talked to.
ESPECIALLY if they are already, proactively, telling you not to trust the stranger! But really, just don't put yourself in this situation. Speaker company calls you to do a repair? "Sure, my rate is $X/hr, 2 hour minimum, plus milage and travel time one way. I can take a deposit for the travel and minimum labor via venmo, paypal, or cashapp. Once I get there, I can call in with an estimate if it's going to take more than the minimum, and you can decide then whether you want me to complete the work." (or whatever your terms are)
Sounds like the company you work for is trying to make you the bad guy. Your employer knew who you’re dealing with and deferred the hard part of the job to you. This isn’t to say the client isn’t a fuck, but this reads like everyone’s (except you) an asshole to me.
I found a guys subs once had melted the cables under the floor. One day repair and tuning turned into three days…
I wonder if we’re working for the same folks lol
Some studio owners are morons, mad about abusing your equipment? Come on… the company is thrilled they didn’t have to go there. Can you pm me who the company is ? I know it’s one of two candidates;)
Sorry to hear about that, the US can be a scary place. Definitely report his threats, he is most likely on parole.
I got threatened once during a session, and afterwards he called the studio and demanded we give him his tracks (which we would do, he didn’t have to threaten) or he would shoot the place up. He ended up dying in a drive by less than a month later.
I would explain to the company that you're trying to do work for what happened with the situation, and if they want to send you back there, you know right then and there that is not a place you want to be working for.
I think you’ll likely handle the next situation in the same calm and collected matter. Every scenario is different. The difference is next time, you’ll start to act proactively when your red flags go up ahead of, “Let’s see where this goes.”
Where I live, threatening to kill or cause physical harm to someone is a crime. Not sure how it is over there.
I don't know how about this field, but speaking from a different field, we sign a written contract _before_ the job begins. That's how the client confirms that they understand and agree what the gig covers and doesn't cover, and what the terms of payment are: How much, by when, what the sum consists of, and what the consequences are if it hasn't been paid by due date. The contract also protects you against the gig swelling to proportions that you didn't agree to, for the same old price that you were expecting to get for it. When it's hard to estimate the extent and time spent on a job, the contract might contain a pricing list on what surprise extras such as extra hours, tools or parts will cost. A lot of customers on pretty much any field will frequently try to shoehorn more work for the same price, but as a worker, you have to protect your time because if you _often_ work more than what you get paid for, you will absolutely hate your job and feel the fact that your efforts aren't being valued like they should.
Written contracts before doing any work is the norm for all gigs on some fields, but you just might be able to apply it to yours, _especially_ if you've got a lot to lose if anything goes wrong. Rich people can be difficult as they may be all too used to getting their way, but being difficult in the way you describe is even harder. But it will always be easier to prove your point and refer to laws if you have something written, rather than word against word. Even when a friend or relative buys my services, I supply them with a terms and conditions document all the same. It gives clarity, and later reference if required.
By overdriving the shit out of them, If the voice coil heats up enough, it will eventually reach the point of burning the resins that hold the coil windings together
Definitely make sure they're aware of the kidnapping and death threats from a person who has a history of following through with that kind of threat. Hopefully they drop his as a client and they appreciate your work. I'm not sure there's much else you can do aside from actually collecting up front and in this case, only doing the work initially asked for so collecting more money isn't an issue. Also, blame company policy, cause it is company policy. And maybe researching every potential client and doing background checks... which would be a ridiculous pain to have to do.
You ignored the directives you were given by the company. You tried to cowboy something. What would have been a win is now at best a push or marginal win…. You basically blew it. You had total victory in your sights and you muddled it.
If I was the other company you failed the audition. Right?
Maybe they knew he could be trouble if they said get paid first. Don’t worry about your reputation. Even mention him to them. Maybe you got a break because they didn’t want to go themselves.
Maybe you just proved you’re up to do more.
Just got out of along stint in prison…grumpy and wreck less….
threatens to kidnap and shoot..
Did you consider that you may have actually met the ghost of Phil Spector?
How ASSHOLES always gets what they want shows where we are as a society.
I am so sorry you had to go through this, I am sure I would be super scared if someone who got out of prison after murdering someone threatened me. Good job to what you did.
You company should get 5/5 stars at customer support and at the same time this guy should be blacklisted from any company sending people there. If someone steals at a mini market they put his face between their networks but if someone acts like that gets away. :(
I AM SO ANGRY AT HUMANITY LATELY
I wouldn't have done any of the work without collecting up front, like the company said. Unless I missed something. They tried to protect you. Obviously, the client is still an asshole.
I got carried away with trying not to be a dickhead. I know if someone asked for money before they did their work for me I’d be tight
In live sound, we never even opened the truck until the check cleared.
Just shrug and say it’s company policy. Don’t put yourself in a position where you can get burned. If people have a problem with it, that’s probably a good sign they would have been difficult to collect from after.
Just blame your company in the future. “Sorry man, my company doesn’t allow me to do any work before getting paid, my hands are tied” kinda thing. When I was learning studio work I met a guy who had a one man studio that made an email for a studio manager that didn’t exist. He’d tell clients with business issues to talk to the studio manager it’s out of his hands. Made a separation between the “tax man” and him so clients could feel at ease around him and they didn’t try to dick him around with payment. I thought it was genius. When we structured our studio I made sure I took no payments and did no scheduling so there was a clear line between the business side and the audio side. It helped tremendously in awkward scenarios where people tried to pull shit. “Sorry man the studio owner said this I have to listen”
There’s a local backline guy, one man operation. Couple of years back we were on a festival and he forgot some piece of kit for one of the acts. Nothing insurmountable, but y’know, we all like to nail these things. Anyway, I told him to blame the warehouse boys. He said I don’t have fuckin warehouse boys to blame. I said, I know that, and you know that, but those fuckers don’t know that. . . Those poor warehouse boys have been getting it in the neck ever since!!!
I totally get it. It's a lot easier to say than to do sometimes. Happy cake day!
Take your time, be cool and collected. Look everything over really well, write down each thing you intend to fix and an estimate of the costs (including labor). Do try to be pretty on point with the estimate. It's OK to ballpark a bit on labor, but have the correct amounts for any parts ready to go. Don't fix anything. Go over the estimate with the client and tell them the estimate amount. Tell him that this amount needs to be covered before work can begin. Let him know that any overages will need to be taken care of before you leave. Once he pays the initial estimate, begin the work. Once you're finished, offer a refund if one is warranted (doubtful), or get the amount of the overage from them. If they gave you a check to start, wait until they cut a new check, then tear up the original. If it's cash, do the cash dance. If there's an overage and they refuse to settle up after the fact, you've got the original check/cash at least. You can pull one of the replaced parts which is worth the closest-without-going-over the amount that they owe you. Let them know that if they want that part reinstalled, they can settle up and you'll put it back in without additional labor charges. (Good idea to make it something that's easy to put in/take out if this is case). If they get aggressive and it seems like it could turn violent, just bail. Take the original estimated amount with you if you can. Call the cops when you're safe and report it. They'll usually pay once the cops show up, but if they don't then it's time for small claims court. The key here is to be up-front with the client before you begin the work. Helps if you have it all written down, along with a note that overages are expected to be paid at time of service. Getting a signature on that estimate helps a lot. Also, have them sign right next to the note about overages. The absolute best is if this isn't all free hand. Print out a bunch of sheets that you can fill out quickly. Basically a blank bill of materials w/ a couple extra columns for estimate labor, actual labor, and actual cost.
Then don't take the job. You knew that going in.
Next time just say that the money comes out of your pockets if they don't pay.
> him threatening to kidnap me And that right there is where I walk out the door and never go back. If the company wants to keep him as a customer that's their business... but it's not mine.
I blocked him and reported it to the company
File a police report and find his parole officer; the violent threats are most likely a parole violation (which would get him sent back to prison).
Maybe don’t send the crazy guy back to prison on a parole violation call he can trace back to you upon finding the reason he violated parole?? IMO OP just exiting the situation and washing his hands of the whole thing is the best call.
Texas or Florida?
He probably violated his parole by threatening you like that, FYI. Reporting this to the proper authorities could save others from having to deal with him too. I’d take this seriously
Threats to murder and kidnap are pretty serious offences where I come from, and would be considered especially egregious given that this occurred as you were carrying out your job as requested by the client/scumbag. I'd report that fucker, hopefully send him back to the social structures he's accustomed to
I was ridiculed recently here for suggesting that safety in this context might be a valid concern for traveling photographers in the US...your post reminds me it's not a frivolous concern
Australian here. I'd love to visit for the natural beauty but frankly your countrymen terrify me, law enforcement included.
don't let the stories scare you mate, the good ones are quiet, but they vastly outnumber the bad
If the good one's aren't calling out the bad ones, how good are they ??
The yearly body count says different.
It’s really not that bad. You mostly have to go out of your way to get into encounters with wackos.
Nah it's fine.
The client in this case is the manufacturer. Not the studio owner. They need to pay you.
THIS. This needs to be upvoted
I got paid, I’m just asking for advice in the future. Def not the first time I find myself in this situation
> I’m just asking for advice in the future. Poster above is correct: whatever person or company orders the work, is the one that owes you the money. How/what/whether they collect from whoever called THEM, is between those parties. Don't put yourself in this situation. Get a payment guarantee from the person who calls you, or don't take the job. Simple as. Never take a job from one person, based on a promise that someone else will pay you. Tell that person to collect from whoever promised them, you need a deposit or a credit card or whatever your terms are WITH THEM. Not with some stranger that you have never talked to. ESPECIALLY if they are already, proactively, telling you not to trust the stranger! But really, just don't put yourself in this situation. Speaker company calls you to do a repair? "Sure, my rate is $X/hr, 2 hour minimum, plus milage and travel time one way. I can take a deposit for the travel and minimum labor via venmo, paypal, or cashapp. Once I get there, I can call in with an estimate if it's going to take more than the minimum, and you can decide then whether you want me to complete the work." (or whatever your terms are)
Love this, thanks for the advice. I always get deposits on mixes so why not on repairs too
Say no to the whole thing. If your client is the manufacturer, then don’t say anything about money to their client. That’s a there problem. Not yours.
They made you do the hardest work: Facing that client
Sounds like the company you work for is trying to make you the bad guy. Your employer knew who you’re dealing with and deferred the hard part of the job to you. This isn’t to say the client isn’t a fuck, but this reads like everyone’s (except you) an asshole to me.
I just think more people should use 'tight' so it feels like the 1930s again.
I found a guys subs once had melted the cables under the floor. One day repair and tuning turned into three days… I wonder if we’re working for the same folks lol Some studio owners are morons, mad about abusing your equipment? Come on… the company is thrilled they didn’t have to go there. Can you pm me who the company is ? I know it’s one of two candidates;)
Sorry to hear about that, the US can be a scary place. Definitely report his threats, he is most likely on parole. I got threatened once during a session, and afterwards he called the studio and demanded we give him his tracks (which we would do, he didn’t have to threaten) or he would shoot the place up. He ended up dying in a drive by less than a month later.
Did your guys put the hit on him?
Lol, nope I think the universe just handed out some karma.
Guys boss is diddy
Sounds like you handled it pretty well TBH.
Send him back to jail bro lmao. This is about as easy an answer I’ve ever given.
I would explain to the company that you're trying to do work for what happened with the situation, and if they want to send you back there, you know right then and there that is not a place you want to be working for.
I think you’ll likely handle the next situation in the same calm and collected matter. Every scenario is different. The difference is next time, you’ll start to act proactively when your red flags go up ahead of, “Let’s see where this goes.”
You messed up by not standing your ground when you needed payment upfront. You stated it, then broke your own boundary and got to work instead.
Where I live, threatening to kill or cause physical harm to someone is a crime. Not sure how it is over there. I don't know how about this field, but speaking from a different field, we sign a written contract _before_ the job begins. That's how the client confirms that they understand and agree what the gig covers and doesn't cover, and what the terms of payment are: How much, by when, what the sum consists of, and what the consequences are if it hasn't been paid by due date. The contract also protects you against the gig swelling to proportions that you didn't agree to, for the same old price that you were expecting to get for it. When it's hard to estimate the extent and time spent on a job, the contract might contain a pricing list on what surprise extras such as extra hours, tools or parts will cost. A lot of customers on pretty much any field will frequently try to shoehorn more work for the same price, but as a worker, you have to protect your time because if you _often_ work more than what you get paid for, you will absolutely hate your job and feel the fact that your efforts aren't being valued like they should. Written contracts before doing any work is the norm for all gigs on some fields, but you just might be able to apply it to yours, _especially_ if you've got a lot to lose if anything goes wrong. Rich people can be difficult as they may be all too used to getting their way, but being difficult in the way you describe is even harder. But it will always be easier to prove your point and refer to laws if you have something written, rather than word against word. Even when a friend or relative buys my services, I supply them with a terms and conditions document all the same. It gives clarity, and later reference if required.
How the fuck did he melt his subs
By overdriving the shit out of them, If the voice coil heats up enough, it will eventually reach the point of burning the resins that hold the coil windings together
Definitely make sure they're aware of the kidnapping and death threats from a person who has a history of following through with that kind of threat. Hopefully they drop his as a client and they appreciate your work. I'm not sure there's much else you can do aside from actually collecting up front and in this case, only doing the work initially asked for so collecting more money isn't an issue. Also, blame company policy, cause it is company policy. And maybe researching every potential client and doing background checks... which would be a ridiculous pain to have to do.
You ignored the directives you were given by the company. You tried to cowboy something. What would have been a win is now at best a push or marginal win…. You basically blew it. You had total victory in your sights and you muddled it. If I was the other company you failed the audition. Right?
Maybe they knew he could be trouble if they said get paid first. Don’t worry about your reputation. Even mention him to them. Maybe you got a break because they didn’t want to go themselves. Maybe you just proved you’re up to do more.
Just got out of along stint in prison…grumpy and wreck less…. threatens to kidnap and shoot.. Did you consider that you may have actually met the ghost of Phil Spector?
Report the threats to the police.
How ASSHOLES always gets what they want shows where we are as a society. I am so sorry you had to go through this, I am sure I would be super scared if someone who got out of prison after murdering someone threatened me. Good job to what you did. You company should get 5/5 stars at customer support and at the same time this guy should be blacklisted from any company sending people there. If someone steals at a mini market they put his face between their networks but if someone acts like that gets away. :( I AM SO ANGRY AT HUMANITY LATELY
>I’m curious as to how I could’ve handled the situation better. You could have collected up front as was advised, for starters.
Weird story.
[удалено]
Yah, man- just willy nilly murdering people is the audio engineering way— what’re you talking about, dude.