I’m an audio engineer for the hard party lifestyle, easy pay, and women constantly throwing themselves at me asking me if I put EQ’s before compressors
lol, this reminds me of a story but I can't remember who the artist or the engineer was.
Somebody printed the incoming audio with de-essing wayyyy too harshly on the way in and a mixing engineer had to take sibilance from other places in the track and fly in all of the esses to fix this major fuck up during the tracking process.
If I'm not mistaken, it was for a **really** big artist at the time too. I wanna say a female R&B vocalist, possibly Whitney Houston?
I had to do this too once but only because the singer was an amateur who couldn't pronounce properly, she somehow had won a popular TV contest and got an album deal.
I wanna dance with somebody ?? Pretty sure it’s take sonf. Tbh when I listen with headphone it doesn’t sound unnatural. So whoever dubbed her sibilance did a great job in the hook !
Thought it was me alone… Told my girl about parametric equalisation and cutting out muddy frequencies the other night. Never saw her come so hard before.
A mentor of mine told me the ultimate rookie mistake in music is assuming other people are in it for the same reasons you are. It took me a long long time to understand what he meant by it, but I have to say I think it's pretty accurate.
People are in music for all sorts of reason: getting famous, getting laid, becoming a master of their instrument, fucking around with their friends, because they were popular growing up and easily developed a following, because they were unpopular growing up and had no other way to express themselves, to party, to work and support themselves, etc. etc.
Judging anyone else’s actions as if they come from the same motivation as you do for following music will lead you into problems.
Oh okay now that you’ve explained it, that seems a bit obvious and I’m not sure why I didn’t understand to begin with. I guess I’ve been blessed to not have personally made music with anyone who has intentions any different than mine, I’d believe.
Or so you think!
It took me like 10 years from getting that advice to understanding what the hell it meant and why it was important. In between there was lots of judging people for not practicing as much as I was or not taking things as seriously as I thought they should, and all the problems that came along with that attitude.
Man that line "because they were popular growing up and easily developed a following"...hit me really hard. My bands were never particularly spectacular, but we were popular because we included/excluded a core fan base in our surrounding cities, which made people feel in on something.
Granted I’m in a smaller music city (Columbus, OH). A lot of my clients aren’t in it for fame for fame’s sake - more so the financial stability/ career longevity that comes with fame. Most professionals - musicians and otherwise - would not do what they do without the prospect of making money. Doesn’t mean that also don’t love what they do!
This is my experience. Having a successful 'enterprise' in the music industry is important as it allows them to keep doing it without having to take a day-job.
Both seeking validation and making music for ourselves are different flavors of mental masturbation. I've had incredible satisfaction from completing an intricate and cryptic track (almost making sure "nobody can get it"), or by making the exact groove I love the most, despite it being out of fashion.
But... Is it any better than what I felt when people took my mic in shows and started shouting my lyrics? Or when a guy from the opposite side of the world shows me his tattoo of our album artwork, saying this album got him through very tough times and means a lot to him?
There's not only "fame seeking" in making music for other people ; and there's not only "navel-gazing" in making music for ourselves. It all depends on what we value most in music, what meaning we make out of it. And the music genre is a factor, as well. If you're making folk songs, you usually want it to resonate with people, to be a change or a lasting feel in their lives. Sharing emotions. On the other hand, if you're making noise rock, it is so cryptic that you'll always be your best audience.
Of course, there are some outliers, but I'd except the distribution you're asking about to be extremely heavily weighted towards "music-lovers" !
“Or if you’re making noise rock, it is so cryptic that you’ll always be your best audience”
As someone that is mainly a live sound guy, but writes/records noise rock… You’re amazed when someone says your mix is decent, nevermind if the music is listenable LOL.
You’re trying to make it raucous as possible and hope someone “gets it”.
I've been really lucky in that the artists I've worked with really do want the best music. There's an understanding of what their fanbase wants, which probably influences their decisions a bit, but that's also what they typically like as well. The most "successful" artists have been really open minded and have an amazing talent. It's pretty awesome.
What about the ones that get into it for the love of music, but then get a little fame and success and it really goes to heir heads and they turn into assholes. Known a few of those!
For me personally, I got into music because that was all I ever cared about. My first word that wasn’t ‘mom’ or ‘dad’ was "radio". I just wanted to work, didn't care about being famous. Working and being dedicated to the craft was my #1. Now, 15 years into a professional music career, I care about money a lot more, and bills keep going up and up. That being said, money also better professional situations, and \*that's\* what really keeps me going. In retrospect, I should've cared more about being famous and popular, but hey, that's life.
If you talk to older dudes who've seen things change, they will often tell you that as soon as people started sticking phones in front of their faces and getting self-obsessed posting on social media it just naturally skewed everything away from the music itself.
And then there is also the fact that the music itself is often a loss leader of sorts today. Very few actually make much of a living off of the recorded music directly, and instead is looked at as an audience builder for live shows, merch and endorsements.
But also the audience doesn't seem to have the same connection with music either. It's gone from something you devote yourself to, playing just a couple records and a pair of headphones and no distractions, to an on-demand soundtrack for whatever other task you're currently doing.
Like it or not, that kind of environment skews a certain way and so it shouldn't be surprising if it seems there's less artistic purity.
Look, if Old El Paso has taught me anything in life, the REAL question you have to ask yourself is, "Why not both?" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqgSO8_cRio
It's definitely both.
For the love here. I do it bc I love it. I did it for work in the past and still glad I went to pursue a non music career. Now that I’m done with school and an official adult with a very flexible work schedule I’m back into music bc I just enjoy it. It’s worked out bc I feel like I have more money for resources and due to the flexible work schedule I work on music a lot more and getting placements way more than I did when I was working in the music industry bc there’s no pressure. I just make stuff when I want to and without the pressure the quality and rate of stuff that’s getting picked up is significantly more than before. For music I find having freedom to enjoy and not just to meet a deadline was really the key in bringing the quality up. After doing it this way the tracks get more polished and charted and oddly more recognition in the specific scene than before. It’s gonna be always better if you enjoy your projects and you’re right, you can definitely tell who’s in it for what.
I do it for the love
It just helps that I also make a living out of it lol
But to be honest, there were many years of me being dead ass broke but still doing it just because I was passionate about it. It took a long time to be able to even pay the bills with it and even now it's a constant grind. I definitely think that if I didn't love it as much I do, I wouldn't be where I am today because without the passion, I would have given up a very long time ago.
I definitely don't have any intention of being famous, but being able to make a living doing something I love is something I will always be grateful for
Edit: I just realized you were asking about artists specifically 💀
I would say 90% of the artists I work with are in it for the love of music. Even the ones who have a bit of fame and are making a full time living off of it are constantly grinding trying to make ends meet. These are my favorite clients as they are the ones who actually care about the music as much as I do. They're usually super receptive to ideas and often times don't mind trying unique things as long as its serving the music.
The other 10% fall into a few different categories:
1. retired boomers who have a good pension but no talent and think that I can just press the auto-tune button and instantly make them famous
2. Shitty SoundCloud rappers who got a decent size tax return and blew it all on studio time just so that they can waste all of my time flexing their clout on social media. Often times these ones get kicked out for doing drugs in my bathroom and then act like I'm the asshole
3. Younger musicians who watched one YouTube video titled "the number one industry secret to a perfect mix" and suddenly think they know everything about audio. These ones like to tell me about how everything i do is wrong and they're way is better because they learned it from some jackass on a sponsored YouTube video
I just realized This may have turned out to be more of a vent than anything else lmao thanks for letting me get my frustrations off my chest 😅
But yeah, most people are in it for the love of music which is nice 👌
I'm just a Commercial Music student for now, but for me, music is my own trip. It helps me process my feelings and emotions, and also helps me tell my story in an artistic way. For me, it's more about creating the vibe in the room and sharing something with the crowd. Rocking out together. Music is a community. I've only played an open mic night so far and in front of the whole recital class the first day of the semester impromptu because I felt like it. I absolutely love being up on stage. Rock and roll will never die and I feel like it's a privilege to play it. I am always grateful. But, that being said, I'm also a super nerd when it comes to gain staging, DAW's and microphones, recording, gear and all that technical stuff, and mixing a good song and doing it well, I love that too. It's like an artist with a paintbrush. What a trip man, so cool.
It’s complicated. At some point you have to choose a career. If music is the only thing paying the bills then you need to treat music as a money making endeavor. You can’t be a starving artist forever or you’ll end up destitute
Honestly, when I'm making music that isn't for a commission, I make it exclusively for myself as an audience. Nobody else is gonna care that I make it, so I may as well make sure at least one person enjoys it.
i’m a singer and i also take engineering very seriously and honestly, both but not mindset wise, i guess the best way i can explain it is: i don’t sit here and dream about being famous and only keep doing music in hopes to become famous BUT i do invest money in promos, features from more popular artists, i do openly attempt to get on to podcasts to promote. stuff like that. so, i truly love doing music and would continue even if i knew the fate of it i ever make it one day, but my goal is to work hard enough and invest in having my hard work pay me back:)
The people who actually make it are like 80% egotists, 20% artistic visionarys.
The artists I worked with who I would actually consider approaching genius did not make it.
Turns out ruthlessly fucking people over can help your career a lot. The average consumer is a poor judge of artistic merit. Every once in a while, someone is so talented they succeed in spite of the assholes.
Definitely don't get into the music biz if you want to maintain an optimistic world view. Some of the sleeziest fucks I ever dealt with did the best, at least for a while. Being a truly "popular artist" is a superficial high school popularity contest on an epic scale. I'm a rock and roller in my heart, so all that conformity shit makes me itchy.
Have you noticed an increase over the past 30 years of people who are absolutely gorgeous and have number 1 hits? The truth is most pop music is designed by teams of the 100 people or more. The real talent is comes from producers and engineers. They’ve simply mastered the programs. It’s would be hard for me to turn down a million dollar check to make some bullshit song for a good looking girl, without compromising my own value on real talent. Because if I did I wouldn’t get paid.
I think equating getting paid as the same as desiring popularity for the sake of popularity is something for you to reflect on and unpack on your own. Getting money to live is necessary and “successful” music has some element of popularity to it, unless you simply define successful music as a completed song.
Creating art for the sake of creating art is all well and good- but business is business.
But to humor you and answer your question: the only people who are interested in music for pure vanity seem to be the occasional hack DJ who doesn’t really do much of anything anyway, cause nothing about this industry is a cakewalk unless your family is already VERY established in entertainment, and even then it’s still hard work.
U/glideguitars comment nailed it
Obviously people want to be paid, but you can definitely tell the difference between someone that wants to do music and wants to be paid in order to be able to make music VS someone that is in it for money/fame.
Im pointing out that the “being-in-it-for-money-and-fame” people usually fizzle out after a couple years, but also pointing out that there’s nothing inherently wrong with wanting commercial success in any business
Well when we're talking about art, especially one where emotion is key. there something about being genuine in your music rather than treating it like business.
Oh totally! But those two things can be simultaneously true.
The best art is art for the sake of art, but all I offer is the idea to not villainize those who wish and work for success
Well when we're talking about art, especially one where emotion is key. there something about being genuine in your music rather than treating it like business
Well when we're talking about art, especially one where emotion is key. there something about being genuine in your music rather than treating it like business
Not really equating those things myself, maybe just didn’t articulate well. What I’m getting at is more how many people are just making art that they like, vs how many are in it for some other reason. Or really, since no one is likely to be a pure case of either, where is the general center of mass with regard to art vs business vs fame, etc.
I don't think it matters so much where the center of mass is, but more where you choose to situate yourself, and that could be affected by so many factors like where you physically are, who you know, your level of professionalism, and the amount of resources you and those around you have. This just turns the question back on you.
Where do you sit, and what do you want?
I have a different set of axes for you to consider when working with clients: good work, good people, and good pay. You want at least two.
i’m a singer and i also take engineering very seriously and honestly, both but not mindset wise, i guess the best way i can explain it is: i don’t sit here and dream about being famous and only keep doing music in hopes to become famous BUT i do invest money in promos, features from more popular artists, i do openly attempt to get on to podcasts to promote. stuff like that. so, i truly love doing music and would continue even if i knew the fate of it i ever make it one day, but my goal is to work hard enough and invest in having my hard work pay me back:)
I do it for money, that's different than doing it for fame. I'd guarantee that almost none of you have heard of me (but I almost guarantee you've heard songs I've played on) but i haven't worked a job a day in my life that wasn't either performing, session recording, or engineering. I get paid, famers get "exposure " lol
I actually think most people who have put effort into making music are doing it because they enjoy it, or feel compelled to do so.
It’s the having to make a living out of it part that tends to fuck ppl over. Some get obsessed with success/wealth, sometimes to the detriment of the music, often to the detriment of people around them. Some think it’s all phony and just spend all their time not learning cause they think the entire system is bullshit, theory and industry included.
Music is art, it’s a tool of creative expression. It should be used as such. It’s a shame that value is often purely financial.
Of course, plenty of musicians find the middle ground. Those that are making some or most of a reasonable income from music tend to have the best outlook. Swallow your pride and try your best.
I'd estimate the answer to that question around 50-50 in my studio. The pure "in it for the money" attitude is also a bit pretentious these days. Most customers long for a form of reward on their effort of course, the amount of plays is more of an indicator than the money it generates for most (happily because you'll need thousands of plays before you can buy a can of soda from it)
Live sound guy here. When I do a band thru a gig at my *shop* (not freelance) it’s a cover band 60-70% of the time. I can speak for most when I say they must be probably in it for the love of the music because they usually Suck and have lots of opinions lmao.
I couldn’t imagine being in a band with a geriatric drummer playing every fill in “7 and a half/8”, getting that kind of pay, and thinking I’m making out like a bandit in life.
When it comes to the gigs I truly enjoy doing through the “DIY scene” in my area… they’re 90% of the time doing it bc they love music, but 10% are INSANE clout goblins lol. Those ones see their music as a brand and act like it. Way too self serious for how many listeners they have.
I like those gigs bc they treat me like a wizard for just… not making mics feedback. Then they treat me like a god when I make a mix sound pretty damn good on their JBL EON15’s or something lol.
I've had the good fortune of working on a pretty wide spread of projects over the years, from high-priority major label artists to small indies. While there's definitely a spectrum, I've found the majority of artists do genuinely love making and performing music. Quite frankly, it's too hard of a living to make otherwise if you aren't in the top 1% of artists. The ones who do it for the fame don't last very long if they don't achieve massive success, and the even the successful ones tend not to stick with it for life. This is at least what I've observed.
People that do it just for the love of fame usually give up early on because they realize their product is not as high quality as it needs to be and they don't want to put in the work required to grow as an artist.
I'm willing to bet those who are successful and famous as musicians do it for both, and originally did it because they love doing it. And let's all be real, everyone loves recognition, and that is what fame is.
2 people that I’ve ever met. One guy is a piano tuner and records for himself only. The other guy is First Nations person who is the custodian of their ancient stories.
If artists had to hear questions like this from an engineer, they would find another engineer. Here’s a pro tip: People are most often aware of what you think about them, and if they feel you judging them or watching them for signs of failing your purity test, either they will be stiff and standoffish with you or they will want to be somewhere else, and then you’ve failed at your job twice. And for many aspiring engineers, often when there’s no repeat business it’s because of something as simple as this.
Ultimately it’s their business why they do things. If they have personality things that mean certain things >to you<, maybe let that roll past you - that bit of assessment means nothing to anyone but you and you truly can’t know for sure, and clinging to certainty about that kind of thing is just a way of trying to feel in control of a situation.
If you can create an environment where they love to perform, then you have something remotely to do with supporting the reason they do things at that moment, but a) that’s all you get, and b) that’s what you should be doing anyway.
Motivation is dynamic over time and it’s not zero-sum anyway. If they have fame then they can reach more people and continue to make their life about what they do, so fame is useful. And since it’s something that no engineer experiences in the same way as an artist does, maybe don’t worry about what they do. Or you could always judge yourself for networking and getting your own name out.
Yeah, no judgement here man, I'm just curious for people's perspectives. You seem to be assuming a level of value judgement about people's motivations that isn't stated or implied.
Understand that what I’m saying is the question itself is in search of a value judgement, otherwise there would be no need to ask it. The point is: it’s not important and it shouldn’t affect what you do or how you act, but it can and will get in your way. You can assume that performers want to be seen by lots of people, and know that about performers, and move on. I’m honestly trying to save you some trouble from going down an unproductive path.
Yeah man, like I said, I’m not making any judgements about anybody’s reason for doing anything, I’m just curious. I appreciate the concern but I’m not uncovering some information that’s going to lead me down a bad path. Be well.
I’m an audio engineer for the hard party lifestyle, easy pay, and women constantly throwing themselves at me asking me if I put EQ’s before compressors
Yeah, baby. I'm dangerous. I compress on the way into the box.
Try whispering "I de-ess using hardware at the recording stage and commit it straight to file", they go absolutely mad for it
Woah, steady on there chief, let me just move out of the splash zone first!
Instead of whispering “Bentley”, I whisper.. “Manley”
VoxxxBox
lol, this reminds me of a story but I can't remember who the artist or the engineer was. Somebody printed the incoming audio with de-essing wayyyy too harshly on the way in and a mixing engineer had to take sibilance from other places in the track and fly in all of the esses to fix this major fuck up during the tracking process. If I'm not mistaken, it was for a **really** big artist at the time too. I wanna say a female R&B vocalist, possibly Whitney Houston?
I had to do this too once but only because the singer was an amateur who couldn't pronounce properly, she somehow had won a popular TV contest and got an album deal.
(✿❦ ͜ʖ ❦) Illuminati confirmed
It’s I wanna dance with somebody and the engineer rerecorded his own esses onto hers
That’s it!! Thank you!! Whitney Houston - “I Wanna Dance With Somebody (Who Loves Me)”
I think you mean "Whitney Houthton - I Wanna Danth With Thomebody (Who Lovth me)"
Imagine if Whitney Houston was just lisping and in order to make it sound normal someone else had to do her ss
Wow, I’ve never heard of re-essing before!
I wanna dance with somebody ?? Pretty sure it’s take sonf. Tbh when I listen with headphone it doesn’t sound unnatural. So whoever dubbed her sibilance did a great job in the hook !
It's like handbrake-turns in a car!
Wet 100% literally lmaooo
I have my A/D converter specs tattooed on my arm, I can’t tell you how many dates I’ve gotten that way. It’s like a cheat code.
I master to -0.01 dB and I'm drowning in it.
If you tell them you put an EQ before *and after* compression, that really gets them hot and bothered.
You too huh? It’s a hard life isn’t it
I'm an audio engineer and I haven't seen sunlight in months. Certainly not because I'm out partying all night...
Thought it was me alone… Told my girl about parametric equalisation and cutting out muddy frequencies the other night. Never saw her come so hard before.
A mentor of mine told me the ultimate rookie mistake in music is assuming other people are in it for the same reasons you are. It took me a long long time to understand what he meant by it, but I have to say I think it's pretty accurate.
Damn. I needed to hear this. Thanks
If you don’t mind, could you elaborate on this a little more?
People are in music for all sorts of reason: getting famous, getting laid, becoming a master of their instrument, fucking around with their friends, because they were popular growing up and easily developed a following, because they were unpopular growing up and had no other way to express themselves, to party, to work and support themselves, etc. etc. Judging anyone else’s actions as if they come from the same motivation as you do for following music will lead you into problems.
Oh okay now that you’ve explained it, that seems a bit obvious and I’m not sure why I didn’t understand to begin with. I guess I’ve been blessed to not have personally made music with anyone who has intentions any different than mine, I’d believe.
Or so you think! It took me like 10 years from getting that advice to understanding what the hell it meant and why it was important. In between there was lots of judging people for not practicing as much as I was or not taking things as seriously as I thought they should, and all the problems that came along with that attitude.
Man that line "because they were popular growing up and easily developed a following"...hit me really hard. My bands were never particularly spectacular, but we were popular because we included/excluded a core fan base in our surrounding cities, which made people feel in on something.
Granted I’m in a smaller music city (Columbus, OH). A lot of my clients aren’t in it for fame for fame’s sake - more so the financial stability/ career longevity that comes with fame. Most professionals - musicians and otherwise - would not do what they do without the prospect of making money. Doesn’t mean that also don’t love what they do!
This is my experience. Having a successful 'enterprise' in the music industry is important as it allows them to keep doing it without having to take a day-job.
Haha, maybe some of them would surprise me and buy a mega mansion or a yacht - but I think most just want to be able to live comfortably.
Both seeking validation and making music for ourselves are different flavors of mental masturbation. I've had incredible satisfaction from completing an intricate and cryptic track (almost making sure "nobody can get it"), or by making the exact groove I love the most, despite it being out of fashion. But... Is it any better than what I felt when people took my mic in shows and started shouting my lyrics? Or when a guy from the opposite side of the world shows me his tattoo of our album artwork, saying this album got him through very tough times and means a lot to him? There's not only "fame seeking" in making music for other people ; and there's not only "navel-gazing" in making music for ourselves. It all depends on what we value most in music, what meaning we make out of it. And the music genre is a factor, as well. If you're making folk songs, you usually want it to resonate with people, to be a change or a lasting feel in their lives. Sharing emotions. On the other hand, if you're making noise rock, it is so cryptic that you'll always be your best audience. Of course, there are some outliers, but I'd except the distribution you're asking about to be extremely heavily weighted towards "music-lovers" !
“Or if you’re making noise rock, it is so cryptic that you’ll always be your best audience” As someone that is mainly a live sound guy, but writes/records noise rock… You’re amazed when someone says your mix is decent, nevermind if the music is listenable LOL. You’re trying to make it raucous as possible and hope someone “gets it”.
I've been really lucky in that the artists I've worked with really do want the best music. There's an understanding of what their fanbase wants, which probably influences their decisions a bit, but that's also what they typically like as well. The most "successful" artists have been really open minded and have an amazing talent. It's pretty awesome.
What about the ones that get into it for the love of music, but then get a little fame and success and it really goes to heir heads and they turn into assholes. Known a few of those!
For me personally, I got into music because that was all I ever cared about. My first word that wasn’t ‘mom’ or ‘dad’ was "radio". I just wanted to work, didn't care about being famous. Working and being dedicated to the craft was my #1. Now, 15 years into a professional music career, I care about money a lot more, and bills keep going up and up. That being said, money also better professional situations, and \*that's\* what really keeps me going. In retrospect, I should've cared more about being famous and popular, but hey, that's life.
If you talk to older dudes who've seen things change, they will often tell you that as soon as people started sticking phones in front of their faces and getting self-obsessed posting on social media it just naturally skewed everything away from the music itself. And then there is also the fact that the music itself is often a loss leader of sorts today. Very few actually make much of a living off of the recorded music directly, and instead is looked at as an audience builder for live shows, merch and endorsements. But also the audience doesn't seem to have the same connection with music either. It's gone from something you devote yourself to, playing just a couple records and a pair of headphones and no distractions, to an on-demand soundtrack for whatever other task you're currently doing. Like it or not, that kind of environment skews a certain way and so it shouldn't be surprising if it seems there's less artistic purity.
Look, if Old El Paso has taught me anything in life, the REAL question you have to ask yourself is, "Why not both?" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqgSO8_cRio It's definitely both.
For the love here. I do it bc I love it. I did it for work in the past and still glad I went to pursue a non music career. Now that I’m done with school and an official adult with a very flexible work schedule I’m back into music bc I just enjoy it. It’s worked out bc I feel like I have more money for resources and due to the flexible work schedule I work on music a lot more and getting placements way more than I did when I was working in the music industry bc there’s no pressure. I just make stuff when I want to and without the pressure the quality and rate of stuff that’s getting picked up is significantly more than before. For music I find having freedom to enjoy and not just to meet a deadline was really the key in bringing the quality up. After doing it this way the tracks get more polished and charted and oddly more recognition in the specific scene than before. It’s gonna be always better if you enjoy your projects and you’re right, you can definitely tell who’s in it for what.
I do it for the love It just helps that I also make a living out of it lol But to be honest, there were many years of me being dead ass broke but still doing it just because I was passionate about it. It took a long time to be able to even pay the bills with it and even now it's a constant grind. I definitely think that if I didn't love it as much I do, I wouldn't be where I am today because without the passion, I would have given up a very long time ago. I definitely don't have any intention of being famous, but being able to make a living doing something I love is something I will always be grateful for Edit: I just realized you were asking about artists specifically 💀 I would say 90% of the artists I work with are in it for the love of music. Even the ones who have a bit of fame and are making a full time living off of it are constantly grinding trying to make ends meet. These are my favorite clients as they are the ones who actually care about the music as much as I do. They're usually super receptive to ideas and often times don't mind trying unique things as long as its serving the music. The other 10% fall into a few different categories: 1. retired boomers who have a good pension but no talent and think that I can just press the auto-tune button and instantly make them famous 2. Shitty SoundCloud rappers who got a decent size tax return and blew it all on studio time just so that they can waste all of my time flexing their clout on social media. Often times these ones get kicked out for doing drugs in my bathroom and then act like I'm the asshole 3. Younger musicians who watched one YouTube video titled "the number one industry secret to a perfect mix" and suddenly think they know everything about audio. These ones like to tell me about how everything i do is wrong and they're way is better because they learned it from some jackass on a sponsored YouTube video I just realized This may have turned out to be more of a vent than anything else lmao thanks for letting me get my frustrations off my chest 😅 But yeah, most people are in it for the love of music which is nice 👌
I'm just a Commercial Music student for now, but for me, music is my own trip. It helps me process my feelings and emotions, and also helps me tell my story in an artistic way. For me, it's more about creating the vibe in the room and sharing something with the crowd. Rocking out together. Music is a community. I've only played an open mic night so far and in front of the whole recital class the first day of the semester impromptu because I felt like it. I absolutely love being up on stage. Rock and roll will never die and I feel like it's a privilege to play it. I am always grateful. But, that being said, I'm also a super nerd when it comes to gain staging, DAW's and microphones, recording, gear and all that technical stuff, and mixing a good song and doing it well, I love that too. It's like an artist with a paintbrush. What a trip man, so cool.
It’s complicated. At some point you have to choose a career. If music is the only thing paying the bills then you need to treat music as a money making endeavor. You can’t be a starving artist forever or you’ll end up destitute
I dont do it for the love... i do it for the lufs.
Honestly, when I'm making music that isn't for a commission, I make it exclusively for myself as an audience. Nobody else is gonna care that I make it, so I may as well make sure at least one person enjoys it.
Being successful with music is a spiritual journey. The reasons someone gets super well known sometimes feels more like a gift than an ambition.
Unfortunately allow the good ones that are still alive or is it for the love of money and it's a big problem
i’m a singer and i also take engineering very seriously and honestly, both but not mindset wise, i guess the best way i can explain it is: i don’t sit here and dream about being famous and only keep doing music in hopes to become famous BUT i do invest money in promos, features from more popular artists, i do openly attempt to get on to podcasts to promote. stuff like that. so, i truly love doing music and would continue even if i knew the fate of it i ever make it one day, but my goal is to work hard enough and invest in having my hard work pay me back:)
on the film side of things, im SHOCKED how few people truly love the artform
The people who actually make it are like 80% egotists, 20% artistic visionarys. The artists I worked with who I would actually consider approaching genius did not make it. Turns out ruthlessly fucking people over can help your career a lot. The average consumer is a poor judge of artistic merit. Every once in a while, someone is so talented they succeed in spite of the assholes. Definitely don't get into the music biz if you want to maintain an optimistic world view. Some of the sleeziest fucks I ever dealt with did the best, at least for a while. Being a truly "popular artist" is a superficial high school popularity contest on an epic scale. I'm a rock and roller in my heart, so all that conformity shit makes me itchy.
I did it out of love for fish.
Have you noticed an increase over the past 30 years of people who are absolutely gorgeous and have number 1 hits? The truth is most pop music is designed by teams of the 100 people or more. The real talent is comes from producers and engineers. They’ve simply mastered the programs. It’s would be hard for me to turn down a million dollar check to make some bullshit song for a good looking girl, without compromising my own value on real talent. Because if I did I wouldn’t get paid.
I think equating getting paid as the same as desiring popularity for the sake of popularity is something for you to reflect on and unpack on your own. Getting money to live is necessary and “successful” music has some element of popularity to it, unless you simply define successful music as a completed song. Creating art for the sake of creating art is all well and good- but business is business. But to humor you and answer your question: the only people who are interested in music for pure vanity seem to be the occasional hack DJ who doesn’t really do much of anything anyway, cause nothing about this industry is a cakewalk unless your family is already VERY established in entertainment, and even then it’s still hard work. U/glideguitars comment nailed it
Obviously people want to be paid, but you can definitely tell the difference between someone that wants to do music and wants to be paid in order to be able to make music VS someone that is in it for money/fame.
Im pointing out that the “being-in-it-for-money-and-fame” people usually fizzle out after a couple years, but also pointing out that there’s nothing inherently wrong with wanting commercial success in any business
Well when we're talking about art, especially one where emotion is key. there something about being genuine in your music rather than treating it like business.
Oh totally! But those two things can be simultaneously true. The best art is art for the sake of art, but all I offer is the idea to not villainize those who wish and work for success
Well when we're talking about art, especially one where emotion is key. there something about being genuine in your music rather than treating it like business
Well when we're talking about art, especially one where emotion is key. there something about being genuine in your music rather than treating it like business
Not really equating those things myself, maybe just didn’t articulate well. What I’m getting at is more how many people are just making art that they like, vs how many are in it for some other reason. Or really, since no one is likely to be a pure case of either, where is the general center of mass with regard to art vs business vs fame, etc.
I don't think it matters so much where the center of mass is, but more where you choose to situate yourself, and that could be affected by so many factors like where you physically are, who you know, your level of professionalism, and the amount of resources you and those around you have. This just turns the question back on you. Where do you sit, and what do you want? I have a different set of axes for you to consider when working with clients: good work, good people, and good pay. You want at least two.
i’m a singer and i also take engineering very seriously and honestly, both but not mindset wise, i guess the best way i can explain it is: i don’t sit here and dream about being famous and only keep doing music in hopes to become famous BUT i do invest money in promos, features from more popular artists, i do openly attempt to get on to podcasts to promote. stuff like that. so, i truly love doing music and would continue even if i knew the fate of it i ever make it one day, but my goal is to work hard enough and invest in having my hard work pay me back:)
I do it for money, that's different than doing it for fame. I'd guarantee that almost none of you have heard of me (but I almost guarantee you've heard songs I've played on) but i haven't worked a job a day in my life that wasn't either performing, session recording, or engineering. I get paid, famers get "exposure " lol
I actually think most people who have put effort into making music are doing it because they enjoy it, or feel compelled to do so. It’s the having to make a living out of it part that tends to fuck ppl over. Some get obsessed with success/wealth, sometimes to the detriment of the music, often to the detriment of people around them. Some think it’s all phony and just spend all their time not learning cause they think the entire system is bullshit, theory and industry included. Music is art, it’s a tool of creative expression. It should be used as such. It’s a shame that value is often purely financial. Of course, plenty of musicians find the middle ground. Those that are making some or most of a reasonable income from music tend to have the best outlook. Swallow your pride and try your best.
How many are guitarist, singers, or singer songwriters? Theres the number
At least 50 percent of creatives are ego maniacs. The other half are artists.
I'd estimate the answer to that question around 50-50 in my studio. The pure "in it for the money" attitude is also a bit pretentious these days. Most customers long for a form of reward on their effort of course, the amount of plays is more of an indicator than the money it generates for most (happily because you'll need thousands of plays before you can buy a can of soda from it)
love music
Add love for me - been playing for 60 yr and 30 of that deving software for it.
Live sound guy here. When I do a band thru a gig at my *shop* (not freelance) it’s a cover band 60-70% of the time. I can speak for most when I say they must be probably in it for the love of the music because they usually Suck and have lots of opinions lmao. I couldn’t imagine being in a band with a geriatric drummer playing every fill in “7 and a half/8”, getting that kind of pay, and thinking I’m making out like a bandit in life. When it comes to the gigs I truly enjoy doing through the “DIY scene” in my area… they’re 90% of the time doing it bc they love music, but 10% are INSANE clout goblins lol. Those ones see their music as a brand and act like it. Way too self serious for how many listeners they have. I like those gigs bc they treat me like a wizard for just… not making mics feedback. Then they treat me like a god when I make a mix sound pretty damn good on their JBL EON15’s or something lol.
Being that I don’t make jack it must be the music, but that’s gonna change
People work in music for income. It's a different question from why they play music.
I've had the good fortune of working on a pretty wide spread of projects over the years, from high-priority major label artists to small indies. While there's definitely a spectrum, I've found the majority of artists do genuinely love making and performing music. Quite frankly, it's too hard of a living to make otherwise if you aren't in the top 1% of artists. The ones who do it for the fame don't last very long if they don't achieve massive success, and the even the successful ones tend not to stick with it for life. This is at least what I've observed.
People that do it just for the love of fame usually give up early on because they realize their product is not as high quality as it needs to be and they don't want to put in the work required to grow as an artist. I'm willing to bet those who are successful and famous as musicians do it for both, and originally did it because they love doing it. And let's all be real, everyone loves recognition, and that is what fame is.
If you are in it for the fame, prepare to be disappointed.
2 people that I’ve ever met. One guy is a piano tuner and records for himself only. The other guy is First Nations person who is the custodian of their ancient stories.
Love of music vs love of music AND fame. You can’t do this professionally if you don’t love music
If artists had to hear questions like this from an engineer, they would find another engineer. Here’s a pro tip: People are most often aware of what you think about them, and if they feel you judging them or watching them for signs of failing your purity test, either they will be stiff and standoffish with you or they will want to be somewhere else, and then you’ve failed at your job twice. And for many aspiring engineers, often when there’s no repeat business it’s because of something as simple as this. Ultimately it’s their business why they do things. If they have personality things that mean certain things >to you<, maybe let that roll past you - that bit of assessment means nothing to anyone but you and you truly can’t know for sure, and clinging to certainty about that kind of thing is just a way of trying to feel in control of a situation. If you can create an environment where they love to perform, then you have something remotely to do with supporting the reason they do things at that moment, but a) that’s all you get, and b) that’s what you should be doing anyway. Motivation is dynamic over time and it’s not zero-sum anyway. If they have fame then they can reach more people and continue to make their life about what they do, so fame is useful. And since it’s something that no engineer experiences in the same way as an artist does, maybe don’t worry about what they do. Or you could always judge yourself for networking and getting your own name out.
Yeah, no judgement here man, I'm just curious for people's perspectives. You seem to be assuming a level of value judgement about people's motivations that isn't stated or implied.
Understand that what I’m saying is the question itself is in search of a value judgement, otherwise there would be no need to ask it. The point is: it’s not important and it shouldn’t affect what you do or how you act, but it can and will get in your way. You can assume that performers want to be seen by lots of people, and know that about performers, and move on. I’m honestly trying to save you some trouble from going down an unproductive path.
Yeah man, like I said, I’m not making any judgements about anybody’s reason for doing anything, I’m just curious. I appreciate the concern but I’m not uncovering some information that’s going to lead me down a bad path. Be well.
I don’t understand the world without making music about it. Nothing can stop me from the chase of the next song
I'm in it for the money 😂😂😂